A Cat Litter Retreat in Mexico with Trixie and Katya
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Okay, okay, okay. Professional. Let me turn my watch off. Hold on. My watch is beeping. Rich. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Wait, wait. I woke up this morning and I was shocked because I watch the BBC every morning and I'm like,

There was a horrible death of an icon. And I wasn't shocked, but I was like, it's weird that the news is reporting on an American drag queen's death. Yeah, I know. And a gay person, too, because the BBC is notoriously homophobic. Yeah, I mean, I just felt more offended that, like, I thought you and I were so close that if you were going to die, you would say something. I would let you know first. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, listen, well, you know what? It's...

We're of course talking about Prince Philip who died. R-I-P-P-P-P. Rest in pee-pee, Prince Philip. Rest in pee-pee. Rest in pee and poo-poo, Prince Philip. Can I ask an ignorant American question? Yeah. Do people in the UK, when somebody like this passes away, is it like a celebrity to them or a politician? Both? Is the country truly mourning? Is it like...

Kim Jong, where they're like, ah, you know. Well, no, but so, okay. Somebody who did this, this Irish writer who did the most incredible sort of profile of that Meghan Markle debacle recently, he put it this way. So we have a capitalist kingdom here. America is a capitalist kingdom, right? Tragic kingdom. Yes, no doubt. The...

No doubt. But so the Kardashians, Oprah, LeBron, you know, these are the royalty, right? I mean, think about it. Jeff Bezos. Jeff Bezos. Absolutely. So it's cash is king here. They have actual kings there. But I mean, so they're a mixture. I would say they're a mixture of a politician and a famous person. They're famous politicians. But Mary, it's a huge range because.

It's symbolic more, right? I mean, do these people really have power? Mary, no. They got nothing. I mean, they don't got nothing. Who pays for them? How are they so rich? Does the public pay their food and water and everything? That's a great question. Do they get an allowance from the country? I believe it is the taxpaying English citizen who foots the bill. And they still have the audacity to have rotten, jagged teeth.

As someone who basically runs several sweatshops of the entertainment industry, if I had some people getting paid to exist and vibe. Mary, you would have put the kibosh on that day one. Not on my watch. Like, not on my watch. I'm not even comfortable with you getting paid when we were together. It's two gifts. Number one is the eye on the fist down on the table. And then it's her walking through the woods. You thinking about all the people you just terminated. Yeah.

Totally. That's absolutely what it is. With no regret. Yeah. You know what I've been thinking about a lot too? What have you been thinking about a lot? I think about that movie, I Care A Lot, a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I think of the haircut. You know what I think about more than anything? The vaping. The carburetor.

It was a carburetor from a fucking Chevy Malibu. It was a Chevy Malibu. Seriously, she is vaping on. She's basically holding a toaster. It was huge. Two-handed. She had two hands. Two bony hands on that toaster. Can we address the elephant in the room? How was your spirit journey? I'm going to tell you all about it. Funny you should mention I care a lot. So there is, there was, I was alone in this house in Tijuana.

And hearing a lot, caring so much. Well, I was there alone with another man. Um, I, there was a guy there and he was being this motherfucker. God bless him. He, I overheard him talking to somebody. He's saying, you got to watch this movie. It's called. I, I, I care so much. I care a lot. And I was like, Oh, my ears pricked up. He loved the movie because all he did was watch. He never left the house seven days. He never left the house seven days. So he was there for, he had severe depression. Yeah.

severe depression. Am I boring you? No, I'm responding to a text. She's literally, she's reading a book right now. He said, he said he loved the movie. I killed him. He loved it. He loved it. I was listening. I'd listen to him every once in a while. You know, eavesdrop is what I'm trying to say, but he was, I have to tell you, Trixie, I have to tell you, you are a very well-adjusted person. Me, not so much. However, however, severe depression is not really a part of my story.

Severe depression is rotten. This motherfucker was literally like the cartoon, you know, the cartoon of the boll weevil, not the boll weevil, the peanuts, you know, peanuts, the dirt cloud. Yeah. Pig pen. Pig pen. It was like that, except without dirt. It was sadness.

Oh, wow. Like literally dragging his ass. I mean, literally dragging his ass down the stairs to get the food, go back up the stairs, be in bed the whole time. Seven days. The whole time? The whole time? And he was there before me and he was there when I left. Mary, it was beautiful weather, gorgeous weather, Mexico, Lambada, Cucaracha. And he never left. Are you bored, huh? No, my watch just went off. Oh my God. Just kidding. Oh my God. I'm so surprised at you.

You know what mentally healthy people do? We multitask. Yeah, I know. But wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So let me, you're the one who has to go on an exotic trip to Mexico to remember to eat. I went into the cat litter. It's a cat litter retreat. Yeah, the folks at home. I went down and I did this experimental treatment. It's almost like, it's almost like- Because at this point-

What do you have left to lose? Nothing. Nothing. I went down and I said, strip my clothes and take the leg. Do it now. And they just said, this is not that kind of retreat, ma'am. This is not that kind of retreat. Put your clothes on and we're not amputating anything. You said, strip me down and take the leg. They said, Mary, this is a pottery barn. You're at a pottery barn in Brookfield, Wisconsin. This is a baby jogger. We don't do that.

This is a limited two. A lip balm or a scrunchie? But it was fabulous. Vegan diet. Tell me everything. Okay. One down there. So without, I won't get into it. It's too, it's a long story, but anyways. No, no, no. We got to start with what's the program intended to do for people? Okay. So the program is intended to, so it's Ibogaine. It's a psychedelic drug that when administered in a clinical environment is being used to treat

Anything from addiction, mostly opiates, but addiction, mental health issues, PTSD, depression, things like that. Trauma? Trauma, absolutely. They're doing it with psilocybin or mushrooms. They're doing it with a little, I don't know, MDMA, I think also ketamine. So there's all these kind of- Can it help the skinny?

No. I'm asking for a friend. You have no hope. You have no hope. You're destined to waste away in three to four weeks. I have to wonder if it's sort of a new agey cactus ridden girl interrupted. Okay. Ooh. Ooh.

Because if everyone has different issues, but they're seeking the same treatment, I would think that that creates a very eclectic environment. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, unfortunately, it was just the two of us. I was like hoping for a real kind of like a white wall, you know, like, yeah, like I was hoping for the full thing. But yeah, yeah. You know, I had nobody to complain to other than the Mexican staff who are, by the way, fantastic.

You were hoping it was going to be like a prison thing where you walk in with like a rolled up mattress and a tube of toothpaste. And they're like, come on, new fish. Yeah. And I've got my sack full of dimes and I'm ready to fucking swing. Yeah. But it wasn't like that at all. Unfortunately, I wanted to be Angelina Jolie, you know, with the blonde hair and the attitude. And then I was hoping to find Brittany Murphy with the eating chicken. But it was not that. It was nothing of the sort. There's this show I like to watch. I believe it's called 60 Days In. 60 Days In?

Anyway, it's a show where people who are not convicted of a crime go to jail for 60 days and they have to withstand 60 days in jail. The 60 day jail challenge? A lot of the time. It's a TikTok dance. Um,

What about this? In a world of TikToks, be a TED Talk. Be a TED Talk. I just listened to your scathing. Courtney accent. Dragging me through the mud for 26 minutes straight. I heard something about Barbies and then all I could hear was just shitting, shitting, shitting the bed. It was villainizing. Well, apparently you told her, you told Courtney Act, you shit the bed and you'll replace the mattress. And then she got back and the mattress wasn't replaced. And you said it didn't seep through.

I'd also love to just point out several facts that the listeners might be enjoyed to hear. This is a woman who has no struggle. This is a woman. This is Courtney Act. She's got no struggle. I knew that she would bounce back from this experience and maybe even get a tail or two out of it. I myself was at a very trying point. But also, I was thinking about it and I was like, so I said, either I go on the podcast to set the record straight or you'll hear from my lawyers. I'm confirmed for two weeks from now. But I do want to say right now,

I would love to set the record straight in another way. I am not a good person. I'm going to be vulnerable right now. I may be very warm and welcoming and lovely. I am not a good person. Let me straighten this out for you. Because to be vulnerable, you have to share something no one knows.

And right now you're telling us something we've been. Yeah. I'm puking on the choir right now. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. I will say Courtney is one of those people who has, what is it? An indubitable spirit. Listen, I bounce back from a shitty bed, but see, she doesn't even fall though. There's no bouncing. There's no bouncing. Yeah. Nothing phases her. This is a person who is the definition textbook of not relatable. She's absolutely gorgeous. Yeah.

She's completely healthy. A paragon of health, a pinnacle of human achievement. Nothing is difficult. She doesn't shy away from opportunities. She doesn't shrink in anxiety or horror. She just floats. Not to say everything's easy, but she is just, I don't get it. She's the mother I always wanted. She's the sister everybody would want.

And she's the friend I hit with my 1994 Dodge Intrepid. And she's the mattress I shat on several times. That's you talking about Jennifer with a G. I don't know a better person.

I don't know a better person. She's the headless doll. I stuffed through the chute. So you get to Mexico. Do they take your wallet and keys or anything? No. So, you know, thankfully, it wasn't like that. It's not like a lock-in at the YMCA. It's not a lock-in. It was not a lock-in. I took a town car down there, Mary. I was Mr. Lulu. Let me tell you about Mr. Louis Lu.

Louis Lu, the only Chinese sedan driver, the only black car driver. He, listen to this. We stopped halfway from San Diego, here to San Diego. We stopped halfway. You took a car? Yeah. To Tijuana. It was four hours. Not even. I forget that Mexico is so close. Well, Tijuana is literally right over the border. It's Baja, California. It's right past San Diego.

Wow. Yeah. But so listen to this. You'll love this. We took a he's like, do you want to take a break to go to the, you know, stop at a rest stop, go to the bathroom? I was like, well, I'd love to have a cigarette. And he says, oh, I didn't know you smoke. That's good. That's good. Yes. That's good. And then he pulls out the biggest cigarette you've ever seen and continues to start smoking with you or what?

You're exactly right. Did he say great and then you both smoked in the car? No, we didn't smoke in the car, but he pulled out of his suit, his sport coat, a fucking cannon of a cigar and waved it in front of my face and said, I smoke more than cigarette. Stronger. You thought it was a PVC pipe. He pulled a Swiffer out of his pocket and lit the end of it.

It was Louie Lou. Get into it. Louie Lou, he was there for you. I'm on my way to Tijuana for a cat litter retreat. You think I'm afraid of smoking? And he fucking picked me up too. He was there and back a week later. People whose biggest vice is a cigarette don't go do cat litter retreats in Mexico. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, but it wasn't a lockdown. Like, yes, it wasn't a lockdown. It wasn't, um, they, you know, I could come and go. I, I,

But it was just, you know, it's like a yoga retreat. You're going to want to be there. You're going to stay. You're not going to leave. So it was halfway between like an inpatient experience and a frou-frou goop kind of wellness getaway. It was halfway in between. How long was it? Seven days. Wait a minute. Is this like the people who pay the woman to teach them to sting themselves with bees? Absolutely. And let me tell you why.

So, first of all, I didn't know about the diet. I didn't know. Somebody lied to her several times when they said she could eat cookies, candy, soda, and bread. When they said the accommodations were going to be fly, hot, sexy, and beautiful, they were nothing of the sort. It was nothing of the sort. No, but they, Mary, it was, I go, I get there and they said, oh, no.

There's no coffee here. And I'm literally about to grab my bag like Viola Davis just get out the chat. And then they said, I was like, oh, but tea? And they're like, oh, yeah, we have tea. This fucking whore has the nerve to grab a box off the shelf and say, we have this tea. I said, Mary, that's not tea. That's some dried fruit. That's squirt. Why don't you fucking pull down your panties, spread them legs and squirt into my open mouth?

Yeah. He said, we have some tea. You said, well, tell you what, why don't we go back outside, get in the car with Lou and fuck myself. Yeah.

I used to teach yoga. I could probably bend over and fuck myself. Yeah, I'm going to get Lewis Cannon of a cigar and shove it up my ass and start crying. Shove it right up my ass. Right in my ass. Right in my fucking ass. So they said no coffee. They brought you tea, which was what? Dried fruit? Dried fruit. It's an herbal infusion. Let me tell you something. It's not tea. There's no caffeine in that.

There's not tea. It's a herbal infusion. That's dried sticks and leaves in a pot of water. By the way, there is a time and a place where like an herbal tea is so lovely. Pre-dinner. Three minutes before bed. A little chamomile. Chamomile three minutes before bed. Yeah. Yeah. Not at fucking six in the morning. So, but anyways, it was, then it was, then it was, then it got just got so much more real and real and real. No meat. Okay. Fine. Fine. Fine. No dairy. Okay. Okay.

No sugar. No sugar, Mary. That's a tall order for a lot of people. For you, that's a lot. No sugar or salt. I'm not kidding. We've been on set where you have sent your assistant to go to the 7-Eleven to buy a handful of candy bars to feed you during the day. I have shoved Skittles up my ass when you're not looking. With the wrapper on. I've seen her do Coca-Cola. She shoots it.

intravenously. Right up my ass, yeah. Right up your ass. Or you do one of those baby feet masks. You hear that, listeners? That didn't do that much to me. Really? I did the baby foot. Not that much happened. Well, you probably got, you're going to never work today in your life to get them feet like that. Well, my feet are gorgeous. Yeah, mine are not. Nothing of the sort.

So, so they, they wait, wait, can we get to the actual administration? So three days in, I'm like, okay, let's get this party started. You know, and I, and I've done other psychedelic drugs before I've done years ago, recreationally more recently for therapeutically, you know, under supervision with lots of, lots of stuff. And you know, there's a huge difference in the intent. So this, I was not looking to go on a rollercoaster, but I was looking to go on a rollercoaster.

But I was looking to have an interesting... Transformative, illuminating... Illuminate, thank you. For lack of a better word, mind-blowing, to be honest. And then Mary... Oh, Lord. So it is... It was eight hours of fucking horror. It was... I puked my guts out several times. And I had fasted for eight hours before the administration of the drug because for that very reason. Imagine the most... Imagine your worst hangover.

The most horrible motion sickness. If you, if you, so you're laying down because you want to lay down it completely. You have this thing called ataxia, which is like basically your body is kind of just paralyzed, but you can move if you want to. But you don't want to. You're just, and then it's just the spins. You close your eyes and you are hurling through infinity, spinning, revolving, flipping. That sounds horrible. It was horrible. It was horrible.

Someone lied to me. I should have asked, you know, this is the third time I have after the fact have come up with very basic questions that would be very pertinent to ask before. Like, for example, very simply, is this going to be fun? And after that, I asked all the clinicians, how would you have answered that question? They would have said, oh, no. Can I ask you a question about what were your intentions? Like, what were you looking to adjust in yourself in this experience?

So basically, so you're trying to do very drugs in the woods or you're trying to like, no, no, no, I'm trying to change. It is completely therapeutic. I don't, especially with this drug. I did a ton of research and still there's so there's such a wide variety of experiences and people describe it so many different ways. It's kind of like, yeah.

You know, you got to just at a certain point, there's things that you're going to know, like, OK, I'm not going to get up and want to dance. I'm not going to be screaming. I'm not going to be up. You know, it's going to be a very down tempo, introspective experience with my eyes closed. But girl, I mean, shit like, you know, you hear an ayahuasca people throw up. Shit girl, please. Well, shit. Well, shit. What are y'all doing? Screwing?

Well, can I say this? This type of experience also, it not just depends on the experience you have. To one person who's maybe a cynic, they might have a different experience than someone who's like,

There is a very obvious placebo effect for some people because even if it does nothing, if somebody goes into an experience like that, believing that they are going to come out the other side different, it does work because you believe it works. Of course. And guess what? I'm not saying the drugs don't work. I'm saying even if the drug is a fake pill, if you believe it's going to change you, you change. Oh, absolutely. I mean, the placebo effect is insane. And it's funny you mentioned that because that's exactly what happened.

I went into there and because there's a traditional ritualistic element, native to the population, native to the culture, that's just not my experience. That's not my experience. Is this a Native American culture?

It's not a curated thing. No, it was. It was a shamanic. So it was not necessarily Native American, but it was a shamanic kind of experience. So there was like there were, you know, candles and sage and feathers and all that kind of crap in which I was. I'm very open. Like, you know, I'm open to it. Anything that's going to facilitate, by the way, openness.

By the way, I mean, maybe I'm biased because I grew up Native American. Native American religious stuff, of course, it's stories like the moon is a wolf, whatever, the earth is a turtle. But on the other hand, a lot of it is based on like metaphysical truths. Sure. The circle of life. When you die, you go back into the earth. That's also scientifically true. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's easy to get on board with that. Yeah. Dreams being, or they, they believe dreams are, you know, sometimes telling the future. It's like, well, yeah, you dream about the things you want. You dream about the things you hope will happen. And then they actually are the future. So like, I think with native American stuff,

It ends up being more of like, what parts of it makes sense to you? Use what you like. Absolutely. There isn't even really a rule book. No, no, of course not. And this is all, a lot of this is, it's very nebulous. Like you said, I mean, I am a very, I'm of two minds. I'm extremely open and interested in quote unquote kooky stuff, the metaphysical, the spiritual, the occult. However,

I'm extremely skeptical. And so what happened, one, I went into it very open, very emotional. I mean, like there's a thing, there's a little ceremony before where I was crying because I was just very, very like, I was just very ready to change. Yeah. And I was just, because you're thinking about what do you want to change? What do you want to change? Like what parts of your body do you want to get rid of? What do you want to, you know? And it just gets very emotional. Well, that's what I'm asking you. What were you wanting to, what was it? I wanted to be released from the addiction.

I wanted to be a released. I just wanted to get that monkey off my back, you know, and because girl not telling your story, but some people reach to that point where they don't not not like drugs anymore. They're fucking tired of the cycle of it. Sick and tired of being sick and tired, sick and tired of it where you're just like, yeah, I'm over the process.

And it's, and it's not even like, and there's so many layers. It's in, usually it's at the most selfish layer. It has nothing to do. Sometimes it has nothing to do with, you know, because that addiction brings you to a very, very self-centered hell where sometimes you're not even fucking thinking about the pain you're causing other people in your immediate vicinity. You're like, I just don't want to feel like this. I just don't want to feel like that. But so anyways, the, so go into the treatment, the, the thing starts and bitch,

Two fucking hours into it, I was like, I got gooped. You think? I was like, this is a fucking scam. I'm so disappointed. No, no, no, wait, wait. Hold on. It gets more interesting. So two hours into it, I was like, I had observed all that. Like I said, I have a lot of experience with hallucinating in altered states. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. Very. And I've done the most potent hallucinogenic drug in the world. Yeah, and I feel like you're a great candidate because you don't believe in Santa Claus, but you're so down for the ride. Oh, yeah. Sign me up. Yeah. So, but two or three hours into it, it was an eight-hour trip or experience. I was like, get me the fuck off this hokey pokey Tilt-A-Whirl because-

I'm like, this is... I was like, you know, I was thinking the money I spent. I was thinking about, you know, the feathers, the smoke. I was like, what a fucking bunch of fucking charlatans. This is a bunch of bullshit. And I stayed like that until the bitter fucking end. And then...

It was 10 a.m. at 10 p.m. Tripped in lasted till like 8 a.m. Puking my guts out, being miserable, horrible. Then it spent the next whole day in a horrible hangover, seething with resentment. Fucking fuming. Fuming. Fucking fuming. But then guess what? Finally fell asleep, woke up, felt the best I felt in 10 fucking years. Really? Yeah. 10 fucking years. The next day.

even better 15 fucking years. Oh my God. So do you think, do you think maybe you did have some sort of, do you think that you thought that the process would make you,

very aware of certain purging of negativity or whatever? Do you think you would be more monitoring it? It seems like you're disappointed that you didn't feel it happening as it happened or something. Definitely that. I mean, in the moment, so like, for example, with this other drug, it's called 5-MeO-DMT. Mama.

There's nothing to describe it. You are Joni Foster in the wormhole. And I'm not joking. I'm literally not joking. It's actually, it's crazier than that. Your entire being explodes and reforms and folds it. I mean, there's a whole, it's insane. It's the six flags of psychedelics because it's a ride.

And it, it, it, it, most, many people in there's nothing I could ever say to you to prepare you for what it would feel like, because there's just, it's just crazy. This, however, is much more explainable. It was not enjoyable. It was not a ride. There was lots of things that happened, but in the moment, there's no real, I had no realizations. I had no transformations. I had no, uh, awake, nothing, no awakenings. It was just shitty. But the, but the, um,

The researchers say that what's happening is that there are some neurological changes that are cumulative over the time after, for weeks and weeks after the treatment. Again, I'll wait for the scientific papers to, you know what I mean? Because I mean, mama, when people say to me that there's a drug that's going to rewire your brain, I say, are you an electrician?

Well, and also like maybe these people, and maybe it does rewire the brain for people who are, I don't want to minimize anyone's experiences, but there's dabbling new addicts. There's like diet addicts. And then there's people like you. It's a different thing. Yeah. And so for example, I heard about this treatment and got connected with this treatment because of a friend of mine who was, when I tell you,

He makes my addiction look like a fucking sandbox full of children. This motherfucker, he is. Which is what addiction looks like. Yeah. It's a sandbox full of children. There's a little litter in there. There's a turd sometimes. And the children are cat shit. I mean, he was shoving needles into his every vein. He was having multiple. He was hotel rooms bouncing people. A parade of anonymous fuck people. I mean, it was burned down a house. Burned down a house.

So, and oh yeah, Mary, the list goes on. It's not even scratching the surface. It's not even scratching the surface. Burning down the house. But he went down there desperate and he was like, I don't care if this treatment kills me. I am, he was at the very, very end. Well, that's what I mean. For people like you and him, it's like, well, you're not going to mess up my brain.

Oh, yeah. That's the damage has been done, mama. I already shit the bed. Might as well sleep in it. Yeah. I already put the doll down the chute. It's done. Yeah. But so but anyways, so here's the thing, though. What I'm taking away from it is that I'm keeping open. But what I'm what I'm looking at are the undeniable facts. A, the willingness to go down there says a ton.

B, the fucking, the cleanse, the time away, the getting your shit just on the body level. Mary, that shit is beautiful for the body. Oh, are you kidding me? Fresh and new. Yeah. When I was vegan.

I swear to God, I felt like I was 15 years old. Yes. Yes. I looked stunning. The whites of my eyes, my skin, my attitude, my sleep, my energy level. Everything. Game changer. Yeah. Yeah. So now I'm- I think vegan people are so- I've never met an unhappy vegan. No, but annoying ones, but not unhappy. Definitely annoying, but like not unhappy. No. And, but so yeah, the caffeine too. That was, once I was up for that second, third day hump-

I was bolting out of bed. I was literally doing a triple axel out of the bed at 7 a.m. saying, hello, baby. Yeah, like crazy. Well, because I don't think people realize their relationship with caffeine. No. My sister last night was like, that's just who I am. I sleep during the day and I stay up all night. It was like 11 p.m. and she was having a Red Bull. I said, girl. What? Duh. That's crazy. Duh. That's crazy. Duh.

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So do you think, I mean, do you think it did what you wanted it to do? Yeah, I do. But here's the thing. So the other, the real takeaway is that there is absolutely nothing. There exists no magic bullet. Obviously, I would have gobbled that bullet down years ago. Right. But so it's all about returning something.

to life with all the shit in place to make sure that your day-to-day is taken care of, that you have, that you have day-to-day. Cause girl, I mean, I was, I was propelled into the stratosphere in January, but came back down to earth. Earth is the problem. I had a problem with earth on earth. I act a fool in the stratosphere. Everything's great. Do you know what I mean? What happened in January? That's, that was the five MEO, the, um, the, the crazy, crazy cat litter.

Oh, okay. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I, so for the listeners, I did a very, like the most potent psycho act to psychedelic drug just as the therapeutic thing. And it was insane, but, but it brings you right back down. No hangover. Nothing is crazy. Would you say that there is any validity in that?

Not me, but a naysayer who says doing drugs can't cure doing drugs. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I do think that this type of therapy...

attached to a certain amount of full-time self-care meetings, accountability, fitness, sleep. I do think this plugged into other stuff could definitely work, but this alone could not. It's an amuse-bouche. Yeah. It's not a meal. It's not a diet. It's an hors d'oeuvre, honestly. Or it's a schedule change or it's literally saying, okay, we're going to pick you up

You're going, you're in the left lane. We're going to pick you up, put you in the right lane. Now you have to walk, bitch. You know what I mean? Nobody's going to walk for you, but you're going to gravitate right towards that left lane if you don't change your shit. You know what I mean? So, but there's a whole thing about, and it's a controversial thing, I know, but, you know, recovery is not controversial. Psychedelics and recovery, they're very rigorously self-aware and honest with each other about these therapeutic applications in the context of a recovery program.

So do people in meetings talk about doing these types of experiences? Nope. Because that's not like a regular meeting. It's an outside issue. And it's just, if we're talking about traditional 12 step, like narcotics, anonymous, alcoholics, it's a drug. It's a drug. Mind altering substances are not on the table, you know? And like you said, you can't, it's like, you know, so, and this is all very new therapeutic research is very new. Well, you know, it's using drugs to,

to permanently change people isn't new. I mean, I'm sure you know that Molly was invented as a, it was a therapy for people who are married, who were kind of like not in love anymore. Yeah. Oh, well I'll get this though. The guy I was just talking about, he was down there because he was on antidepressants, antipsychotics for 20 years.

Oh my gosh. And that's, and he was just trying to get, trying to like little by little incrementally just get off the pharma, you know, because he's just his whole chemistry, his whole identity, his whole life for 20 fucking years as pharmacy. Have you been on antidepressants? I've tried them and I, you know, they just, I'm not a depressed person. For some people who are depressed, if they get the right vibe, the right cocktail, life changing. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

I have somebody in my family who had suppression and she was like, when I didn't want to take them and when I got on them, she was like, it was like, whoa, I could feel like this all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot. But you're not depressed. I'm not depressed. When all things are, when all of the bulbs and the whistles are pointed in the right direction.

I'm team too much. I mean, I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, right. I mean, girl, I bolted out of bed at 7 a.m. and said, hello, world. Hi, what do you have for me today? You do have kind of two settings, though. But you know what, though? Don't you think that's sort of a hallmark of a lot of addicts where they either burn extremely bright on both ends or they're like laying in the dark silently? Well, I mean, alcoholics kind of famously are friends.

Because it is a classic thing. You observe it if you go to program stuff in recovery. You take away the booze and the drugs from very alcoholic people. They just shoot to the moon because there's an enormous amount of like, it takes so much to continue to live while actively killing yourself.

Do you know what I mean? Like, yes, that's true. Well, it's because it's usually booze because there's this front end of you're losing hours and losing time because you're you're drunk or whatever. And then when you're swinging back, waking up hungover, you lose a day because you can't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, let's be honest. When you go out and do heavy drinking, you can't take off that night. You need to take off that night and the next day.

Really? That's even for a casual drinker. I mean, if you're going to go out and get drunk with your friends, have four cocktails, let's say, you can't just like wake up and go to Pilates. No, can you not? I'm the opposite a lot of the times. If I'm hungover, I wake up being like, well, too bad, bitch. Oh, but you're still an overachiever though. We're still going to do that. I was, wait, I just ran, what was I doing? Oh, Orval Peck and I went out Monday and had like four gin and tonics against my will. It was my will. Oh,

I was like 2.30 a.m. and I'm at home drinking a White Claw drunk playing video games. I don't have to work tomorrow, but I guess I'll go to sleep. And the next day I woke up and because I had the day off, I was like, no, no, no. We're not spending the day drunk. We're not spending the day hungover. We're getting up and doing things, bitch. I still went on my jog. I did it all. So for me, it's like,

I'm almost at the point where like if I'm hungover, I'm like we're compensating Yeah, we're not gonna be a flop but just because we had fun last night you push through it if I would go to work Sick, why wouldn't I go to work hungover? You know what I mean? Yeah, there's no crying in baseball. There's no crying in baseball Why is a league of their own such a good movie? Well, I mean dinner Davis Tim Hanks. Yeah, Madonna Madonna great

Great. Madonna. Great. What if I go, and oops, my bosoms fall out. My bosoms fall out. Yeah. You think there's anyone who hasn't seen your bosoms? Yeah. Lori Petty.

Which one's Lori Petty? Is she the kid? The younger sister, Kit. The young sister. Yeah. Oh, Gina Davis, when she goes to catch that ball and falls into the split. Yeah. She invented drag. During the skirt. Yeah, she did. Gina Davis. Nobody knows this. Gina Davis originally hosted Drag Race. But do you know about the League of Their Own? She was so outrageously non-athletic that they had so much trouble with getting her to seem like a top tier athlete.

Really? Yeah, because she's so tall. She was so gangly and uncoordinated, even though she's so intelligent and is an incredible archer or whatever. But she was famously struggle, struggle, struggle bus for that role. There's this incredible scene in that movie. If nobody's seen A League of Her Ownses. A League of Her Ownses. There's this part where...

What's her fucking name? Rosie O'Donnell, who's also in it. Whips a baseball at Geena Davis and she catches it with a bare hand out of the air. And it's so cunt. Dottie, I married a plastic surgeon. Have you ever seen the show My 600 Pound Life? No, I don't need to because that's what I'm currently living right now. I love that when you gain 10 pounds, you're like, well, here we are, obesity. Obesidad morbida. The 600 Pound Life, there was a girl that was on it. Um...

And well, they're all very big and they all are at different times. Some of them want to lose weight. Some of them don't. Some of them make it to the surgery. Some of them don't. It's interesting. It's not the same as drug addiction, but food addiction, I'm sure there's some through lines. Oh, Mary, I'm going to tell you something right now. I would take drug addiction any day over food addiction. You think? I know because here's why. I don't have to walk into a Kroger and look at shelves of crystal meth every

Yeah. But you do have to look at Benadryl, which is in crystal meth. Isn't it? No, that's pseudofedrin. Pseudofedrin. Pseudofedrin. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. That'd be me trying to make meth, by the way. Benadryl, the active ingredient. Mixing up a few ingredients that I saw on Breaking Bad. Benadryl diet spray in a Zima. Yeah.

Yeah, just cook it up to a golden bubbly. But David was watching it and he goes, this woman is 900 pounds. And I responded to via text, that is so cunty. Because I'm not making fun. Like at the ultimate, okay, it's cunty to be whatever, really snatched and fit. But the commitment it takes to be 900 pounds or whatever is also, it makes me think,

What else could this person do? If this wasn't their thing, could they fucking build? Think about it. Could they cure cancer? Like it's hard to be that big. Mary body does not want to be that big.

I'm telling you, I would. So Wimberly, Jason Wimberly beat my ass today with a bat. He stuck a bat up my ass. They started kicking me in the head at our workout today. So you're saying seeing a trainer is the same as a 900 pound woman? No, I'm saying I gained 10 fucking pounds. And the difference I felt doing pull-ups, I was like, these whores are carrying around 600 plus LBs.

And they're, they are, they get the stress on the body organs. Like it is, they're having to deal with so much. It's crazy. That's what I'm saying. Like, like doing the marathon, it's an exercise in like pushing your body's limits. Right. Yeah. Gaining that much weight. Is it, is a similar, I think it's a commitment. Well, I don't know if it's a commitment. I mean, it's like a, but it, I mean, I don't even know. I can't even imagine that.

You know, my body experience is so not in that neighborhood. So if you watch that show, where do they kind of tell you where they come from? Like how does it start? Because that's where I'm getting a little confused. Well, there's sort of a few things that are always in place. There's always – when you're that big, 600 pounds, you can't get up and cook and grocery shop yourself. There's always a husband or a wife or a mom. There's an enabler.

I was going to say there's enabling, right? Because at a certain point, there needs to be somebody cooking you 2,000 calorie meals and bringing them to your bed. So that's what I mean. It's an impossible physical feat to get that big. And it makes you think, wow, the body is so amazing. This person, if this person put this energy into something else, just the human body –

Some of these people, I'm like, I mean, I only watch the show, so I only know what I see on the show. But everybody has, you know, some people, their mom died or some people. It's usually trauma based. Obviously, food is their escape. Food is and food is hard because it's your entertainment. And even when you have a food addiction, you have to eat three times a day. That's what I'm saying. That's why I would trade. I would I would I would take drugs over food because I don't ever. I mean, I'm talking to live a healthy, balanced, wonderful, joyous life. No drugs.

Like, yeah, but I, you have to eat food has to be part of the picture several times a day. It is so, I mean, it's the fucking eating on drugs is horrible unless it's like marijuana. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, eating on uppers is not a thing. I know that's cause that's why I like uppers. Cause I don't really like to eat that much. I mean, not relatable content. Most people love to eat. I know. Well, I love to just, you know, be on speed, but, um, I just, I just think of these really fat people and I think of like,

if this person if these people replaced the fat or the eating or whatever in their life with a

Don't know a healthy expression of some kind of like, you know, these are super humans They've just sort of placed the interest and the emphasis and the coping on the wrong thing Yeah, like some people do fitness as an on some people push fitness to the point of unhealthy. Of course hoping worse Yeah, another thing. I mean my mom is psychiatric nurse for over 30 years You know the hardest group of people she ever worked with the population her kids

Her kid. Her kid. Me. Her kid. Yeah. No, eating disorders. Eating disorders. It was just... It's baffling. That particular mental illness is so insidious. It's so baffling. And most importantly, it's so confusing to people who don't have it. Because it's so... It's like...

It just doesn't make any sense because you're looking at a skeleton. You're looking at a skeleton. I mean, a skeleton on the brink of death. Or on the opposite end, you're looking at someone who is paralyzed in their body by their own body. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And you, I mean, the really...

They're really, really, really skinny people too. Like I remember in college, we had a girl in ballet class and she dropped out the semester. But I remember three weeks in staying after in ballet class and going to the teacher and going, it's not my business. But at a certain point, I feel bad still not saying anything.

Has anybody said anything to that girl? Because there was a girl who just was a skull. Her face was a skull. Yeah. It was ghoulish. And the teacher was like, respecting her privacy. I can't say much, but it's been brought to a lot of the instructor's attention. We are taking care of it. Because I remember just being like, when a person like that enters the room and then we're all supposed to act like.

Like you don't see it. Right. Yes. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. It's just, we're not supposed to act like we don't see it. That's the thing. We're supposed to be like, right. I don't even know that girl's name. And I didn't at the time, but I'm like, Oh, what's with that fucking girl. But again, because it's puzzling. I mean, I have a hard time. I love food. I have a hard time skipping a meal. I have to be so busy to like, forget to eat lunch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not trying to eat Mary.

So just to keep it light, I have to say, and on the topic of the bald and the beautiful, in the body, Mary, I got to say, I shaved my asshole. And it may not be beautiful, but it's bald and it feels. What a reset. I'm telling you. Has it started growing back yet? Because that's also a reset. Not for me, mama. Not for me. Okay. Because when it starts growing back, that's a reset. It can be. It can be. It can be very challenging.

But at a certain point, you kind of get used to it. But I'm going to tell you, I have never, after shaving my asshole, not felt several degrees of incredibly better. No matter what I'm going through. No matter what's happening. What if I just left the Zoom right now? I'm telling you, when I fucking weed whacked that nasty hole, I'd get out of that shower feeling like, What's your process? What's your process? Are you, what are you doing? Are you bent over the...

You're going to laugh when you hear how I do it. I am in a deep squat, baby. I'm in a deep squat. Deep squat, yeah. Like I'm shitting over a hole. Shitting over a hole. You know what I do? This is horrible. Put a leg up? Put the toilet seat up. I squat. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You don't do it in the shower? You don't do it in the tub? What? No, I put the toilet seat up. I squat over the toilet with my toes curled around the ceramic bowl. Like a gargoyle. Yes, like a gargoyle. On Notre Dame. Yes. And then the hair falls in the toilet.

From what action? And then I flush it, and as the hair goes away, I sing, I don't want to wait. Okay.

But let me ask you, are you using a clipper? Are you using a clipper? Yeah, I use like a... Okay, gotcha. And then in the shower, like if I'm shaving for like a photo shoot, then I shave with a... Excuse me? What kind of photo shoot are you fucking shaving? Remember when I was naked a couple months ago and I called you? Yeah, but who's... Are you spreading your cheeks open and showing your fucking gait? Fina painted my asshole.

Oh my God. You are just- Fina painted my ass whole. Let's talk about trauma. Let's talk about inflicting trauma on other people. But you know what though? If you're going to shave all the parts that the camera's going to see, you also need to shave all the parts so that you can feel it. Thank you. That's exactly- I was just going to- You took the words right out of my mouth. That's for you. And you feel like the only- You feel like you have a pussy? You are LA's tightest pussy three years in a row. Because I was tucked too. Me tucked naked with pumps on, I felt like fucking Amanda Laporte. Yeah.

I looked like Amanda Lepore, P-O-R. You look up, you've got three plaques on the wall that says, Los Angeles tightest cunt, 1997. I wanted to be Amanda Lepore, but I was a man who was poor. A man who was poor. Oh my God. Wait, wait, wait. Let's take a break. Let's take a break. The time for a break is long gone. But speaking of assholes, yeah.

Your dad called me. No. Speaking of assholes, for the marathon, I have to wear a body glide in my butt crack because when I'm running 20 miles, if I don't wear that, I get bloody red parentheses around my asshole from where the skin was rubbing. You are Chafin Buttigieg. Chafin Buttigieg. What is... That is so good. I got Chafin on my peat. Oh, my God. What the fuck? What the fuck? Yeah.

It's crazy. Well, this is really illuminating. I couldn't wait to hear about your, uh, your, your, all in all great experience. And I do want to say, listen, I, I, you know, just in the terms of like, I don't like to be all, um, I'll just skip that part. Nevermind.

Well, no, no, no. Let's make it clear. We're not glamorizing drug use. No, we're not glamorizing... We're not glamorizing 600-pound life. Right. And also, I'm not trying to let... I'm not trying to, like... I've learned over the course of being this kind of famous, you know, this gay famous gig for the last five years or something, I've learned that it's not necessarily, like... I need to kind of retain a little bit of privacy when it comes to this kind of stuff because I don't... A, I don't want people in my business. A, B, I don't want people worrying about me. C, I don't want people...

thinking like projecting anything on me and see indeed I'm not trying to be no fucking hero for any recovery are you suggesting that our fans don't have a sense of boundaries with us I'm sure I don't know what you mean I'm sure when I receive letters to my house yeah yeah they say that letter yeah I'm just like I'm just not the type of person like they're in listen it's a new age so with the social media I've noticed people people will post their sobriety milestones on on social media I am not that person

I mean, that's not, and it's not because I'm ashamed or it's because I'm whatever. It's just, it's none of really people's business, but I thought this was an interesting. There's some things I like to be there. It's okay to, as a performer, I will tell you the texture of the skin around my ass, but I won't tell you how I felt when someone died. Right. There's some things I don't want to talk about. Yeah. Boundaries. I don't like to talk about, I don't like to talk about death, sickness, my own health. I don't like to talk about, um,

National tragedy. Yeah. National, like, like political affairs. There's certain things that to me are private that I feel uncomfortable sharing with people. Yeah. And it's okay to, it's, it's okay to be, to, to be that way. Yeah. Like I teach it. I don't want to, I don't like tell anybody's business, but there's something drag race is doing for Chi Chi. And they said, do you want to say something? People are making videos. And I said, I, in theory would love to, but I'm just pretty private about like loss and grief. And when people die and I don't want to talk about,

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and yeah, and it's like the ways that it also my boundaries don't need to make sense to people, right? Like, duh, they don't need to make sense. They don't need to be consistent and they don't need to make any sense because they're my boundaries.

There's something I don't like to talk about. My boyfriend and I, it's probably one of the only times I've gotten mad at him. I, as a vegetarian, I don't like when people talk about my diet, my vegetarianism, a time they saw me cheat on my vegetarianism, et cetera. I'm like, I'm so tired of people being like, well, how vegetarian are you? I don't want to talk about my diet.

Yeah. It's not your fucking business. I really don't. So why are you a vegetarian? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I'm not saying that boundary makes sense. It doesn't have to. That's one of the things I learned recently. It doesn't have to. It's like I can talk about these experiences or I can talk about my experience in recovery, but I'm not going to tell you my sobriety date or I'm not going to tell you that I'm sober or not. It's none of your fucking business. Whereas some people, you know why? Because some, I will say a lot of people when they get sober,

It becomes something you hear about a lot. Yes, it can get evangelical. No, but it can get evangelical. It can get evangelical or the support system they gain by being public really helps them. But not everybody wants that. But not everyone. And that's the main thing I've learned is that accountability from strangers is not for me real accountability. And support from real strangers is not real support. I think it's insulting.

I think it's insulting. It can be, for me, it can be patronizing. It can be a little bit. Yes. Yeah. But, but that's, that's me. It's like when you,

It's like when you went crazy a couple of years ago and all any interviewer ever asked about was you. And I was like, you're not asking because you care. Shut up. No. Give me a break. It gets a little, it gets a little slimy. And even, and it's tough because you'll have me on the other hand, who's crazy with no boundaries. So it creates this like, well, well, she's insane. We can ask her anything. It doesn't matter. You know what I mean? Like it, it's all very murky, but do you remember when we, do you remember when we met? Remember when we met?

Remember when we met Chuck and you found out her sister was Lana and you basically jumped down her throat like a Japanese horror film? Yeah. I grudged my way into her esophagus. Yeah. Yeah, I sure did. That was the craziest moment.

It was weird, but also being photographed by Chuck Grant. Chuck Grant. Yeah. Yeah. Stunning, by the way. Beautiful young woman. Yeah, absolutely beautiful. And I mean, she, I remember how it played out because we were, I was like friendly with her. She was like nice, chill girl. And then she was, she said, oh, you know, she volunteered. She opened the door. I'm going to say she opened the door. Well, we said, where do you live? And she said, oh, I live up on Mulholland. And we go.

Oh, wow. Mulholland. Wow. That's crazy. You must be rich. Ha ha. And she goes, well, I'm not rich. And she, I think she said like my sister's does okay or whatever. My sister's a performer. She said. Yeah. My sister's a performer. And then we said,

Who is your sister? She said she and you were putting makeup on and she said Lana Del Rey. And I'll never forget your head doing about six rotations. You look like one of those owls looking backwards with big eyes. Like you look like you look like you look like Cody Choi. And I never looked away, though. I was like, whoop.

Well, I don't think she realized you were at the time, especially truly a devoted fan. Stan. Yeah. And so she accidentally opened that door. She opened the door and I will, I'm going to admit she, she gave me her phone number and, um, and I, I unfortunately sent her some texts that were, yeah. When I was at home, when I was really twisting in the wind, I reached out. No one opens the door for a native New Yorker.

No one. What did you say? Were you, were you Turntina Aguilera? I was Turntina Aguilerta in, in, in Moulin Rouge. I was like very, it was very, um, in, in, in, in some people, you know, thankfully it was, I think that people kind of got the gist and they're like, Oh, this man was a little, she's having a moment. And then we're just going to, we're going to disengage with, with compassion. And I think that's what most people did. Thank God. Cause I never, I never got, you know,

First of all, I love that term, she's having a moment. Because in Hollywood, it means two things. Like Billie Eilish last year was having a moment. Okay. In a good way. But also, Rose McGowan was having a moment. Sure. And it has two different meanings. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But it's the same six words or whatever. Four words. Yeah. How is she? She's having a moment. Yeah. Oh, she's having a moment. Or she's having a moment. She's having a moment.

It's like so funny. That'll be my next special. She's having a moment. It's kind of like fierce. It's like, oh, she is fierce. And it's like, oh, she's fierce.

Yeah. Oh, is this? Oh, that. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or like, it can either mean a glow up, like she got fierce. Or, well, she got fierce. Or like, how was the show? It was fierce, girl. Or like, oh, it was, it was fierce. It was a swift and steady decline. Totally. Or it was up in the, like, you know.

Totally. I was just watching the housewives and Erica Jane was talking about how easy it is for gay people to talk to each other because she's like, she's like, I'll be talking to one of my Queens and I'll be like, bitch. And he'll be like, girl. And I'll be like, okay. And then we just meet at brunch.

That's true. It really is. And if you want more, the master class version of that is like, bitch, girl, mama. Okay, seriously. And that's all the words. And by the end of it, you've choreographed a number. And by the way, in the meantime, you have thought and made up. And then it's too much. I gotta go wash these fucking things off. Okay. Well, why don't we let you go?

Hey. Hi. I'm glad you're still with us. What about this? Oh, wait, wait, wait. I just heard. I just heard.

Oh, God. Okay. I'm going to push unrecord.