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See store or sleepnumber.com for details. All right, we're already well into January. And, well, you know what that means. I'm happier now that I'm skinnier, and here's why. If you do these five things, you will win with money. On a high-fat carnivore diet. For breakfast, I have my coffee with some butter, of course. I just made the perfect shake for city guys looking to build muscle fast. Here's why you need two to-do lists and how that's going to help you get five times the amount of work done in the same amount of time.
You know, I've been a health reporter for more than 20 years, and I can tell you, just like clockwork every year, it's the same.
There is this sudden pressure to buy more. I have taken 10 million supplements and tried them out so you do not have to. To do more. It's very much possible to become a millionaire and it's simpler and easier than you think. To lose more. Here's how to lose your love handles as a skinny fat man. You need to start implementing these two exercises in your workout routine ASAP. There's a lot of bold claims out there and frankly, making bold claims, setting goals, that's kind of the easy part. It's the follow through.
That's another matter altogether. It's part of what I want to talk about this year. We know that New Year's resolutions are hard to keep. Surveys will show that most eventually fail. But here's the thing I want to tell you. When we put a lot of pressure on ourselves, failure isn't actually even the worst case scenario.
I developed a GI illness. I went through like five rounds of physical therapy. I had an overuse injury from typing too much. I woke up one morning and I couldn't turn my head to the right because my muscles were too tight. That's Dr. Ellen Hendrickson. She's a clinical psychologist. She's an author. And she's a recovering perfectionist, as she describes herself. I was frankly pretty floored when Ellen told me the symptoms you just heard were in fact her body's response to the pressure she put on herself to be perfect.
And Ellen's story got me thinking, what if the solution isn't to set more goals and to make these bold proclamations for ourselves? What if we got really comfortable with simply doing less?
So I've decided to take a slightly different approach at the beginning of the new year. Instead of talking about New Year's resolutions, think of these, stick with me here, but think of these almost as a series of anti-resolutions. Think of these as a guide to learning to let go.
From tackling perfectionism... Capitalism, consumerism, social media. Perfectionism is essentially the result of being in an economic system that is hell-bent on exceeding human thresholds. ...to actually finding the beauty in boredom. One of my students came back from a conference and she told me that someone had gone past her poster and said,
He's the father of boredom. I'm not sure I want to be known as that. This is a journey that's led me to some pretty unexpected places. But now we're on it together. You're along for the ride. So I hope you're ready to ring in the new year by maybe committing to doing less. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's chief medical correspondent. And this is Chasing Life.
When I set out to explore new ways to approach the new year, I knew the first person I wanted to talk to, someone that could help us get in the right mindset for this idea of not necessarily doing more, but in fact, starting to get comfortable letting go. Traditionally, New Year's resolutions and the new year has been about self-improvement.
But I think it doesn't have to be simply that. I think expanding our expectations of what it means to be, quote unquote, better can be really powerful. Ellen has been on the podcast before. She is a clinical psychologist at Boston University Center for Anxiety and Related Disorders. She recently wrote a new book. It has this title, How to Be Enough. Self-acceptance for self-critics and perfectionists. How to be enough.
To me, addressing the pressure to be perfect felt like the natural first stop in our journey together. I wrote this book for me because I have come from a long line of people with perfectionism, and there is a saying for self-help book authors, which is write the book you need. So I did write it for me. But so as a clinical psychologist at an anxiety specialty center, I also wrote the book for everybody else like me because I
What happens is that I would say most of my clients come in with perfectionism at the center of the overlapping Venn diagram of their challenges.
But nobody ever says, Ellen, I'm a perfectionist. I need everything to be perfect. Nobody ever says that. Instead, what they say is, I feel like I'm failing. I feel like I'm falling behind. I should be so much farther ahead than I am now. I have a million things on my plate and I'm not doing any of them well.
And ultimately, I think that's because perfectionism is a little bit of a misnomer that instead of striving to be perfect, it's really about never feeling good enough. What was it that was going on in your life that made you write this book? Sure. Well, I mean, I'll be really honest. I burned out. There's a perfectionism researcher named Martin Smith who finds that most people, as they age, mellow out.
But for with people with perfectionism, something different happens and that's kind of the wheels start to come off. So we burn out, we might lose relationships, we might struggle with our mental health. And so for me, it manifested physically. So I developed a GI illness. I went through like five rounds of physical therapy. I had an overuse injury from typing too much. I woke up one morning and I couldn't turn my head to the right because my muscles were too tight.
So, that's how it manifested for me, but for a lot of folks who come to the clinic, it might look like marital troubles, it might look like realizing all the friends have drifted away because they've had their nose to the grindstone for so long. It could be depression, it could be just simply this low rumble undercurrent of feeling like a failure. So, it was time for me to write that book. You know, I think...
Being a perfectionist obviously is not a medical diagnosis. Correct. But are there certain qualities from a medical standpoint that perfectionists have in common? Perfectionism lies at the heart of a lot of medical and mental health challenges. And it also is a really central component of eating disorders, of a lot of kinds of depression, of OCD, right?
And it even, I say, like kind of reaches its tendrils into things that we might not even intuitively think about, like migraines, like erectile dysfunction, like panic attacks. So it often lies at the center of the overlapping Venn diagram of many folks' challenges. Is perfectionism a bad thing? Someone comes in and says, I'm a perfectionist.
Are you looking at them as somebody who might come to you as a patient as a bad thing, good thing? How do you approach it? So perfectionism can absolutely be good. And there may be some researchers out there who disagree with me, but there are others who absolutely agree with me because it can look like striving for excellence for the sake of excellence for perfectionism.
setting high standards, working hard, caring deeply. Those are all great things. Please keep doing those. And in fact, there's
There is a personality trait called conscientiousness, which is the healthy heart of perfectionism. And conscientiousness is the tendency to do things well and thoroughly, to be diligent, to be responsible. I like to say it's the least sexy superpower, but it's definitely, in terms of personality traits, the one to choose for both objective and subjective success in life. So perfectionism can...
definitely work for us. Where it tips over into being unhealthy is, now this is the work of Drs. Roz Schaffer and Zephyr Cooper and Christopher Fairburn when they were colleagues at Oxford University. So it tips over into having two kind of pillars. And one is self-criticism, and that needs no definition, but in perfectionistic self-criticism is particularly harsh and personalistic.
And then there's another pillar that was a new concept for me, so it might be new for some of your listeners, which is called over-evaluation. And that is when we start to conflate who we are with what we do.
So our performance becomes a referendum on our character. So excuse my grammar, but it's when I did good equals I am good or I did bad equals I am bad. So examples might be a striver student who defines themselves by their grades or an employee who looks at their quarterly evaluation not just as grades.
evaluation of their work, but a referendum on them or the athlete who's only as good as their last game or the musician who's only as good as their last performance. We can over-evaluate anything or our reflection in the mirror or the number on the scale, whether or not we think we were a good parent that day. It's when we conflate our worth with our performance. What do you think is driving perfectionism? I mean, what's at the core of it if you sort of go deep into this? Yeah.
So it comes from both within and from all around us. So in terms of within, there is beginning to be some evidence that perfectionism is heritable, is genetic. So it can definitely be passed along. It does come from our families of origin. I do want to say that you can come out of any kind of family being perfectionistic, but there have been identified four particular kinds of families that are maybe that are
I don't even want to say higher risk, higher likelihood of being perfectionistic. The kind of overly cautious rule following sort of the Marlin from Finding Nemo, like being a little bit helicopter-y. So that's one type. Another type is just perfectionistic.
If we model, you know, hard driving, high achieving, over evaluating behavior to our kids, then, you know, certainly they're going to pick up on that. The third is where love is contingent upon performance. So that's where love and pride get sort of conflated. So love is a freely given emotion, whereas pride is earned.
And so in the families that really kind of only notice you when you achieve something, as opposed to when you feel deeply or are curious. And then the fourth type is sort of a chaotic, unstable family where kids will therefore like double down on performance in order to have some control in a chaotic environment. And perfectionism comes from all around us, especially in a post-pandemic environment
culture, Western culture that we're in, capitalism, consumerism, social media. The perfectionism researcher Thomas Curran, I'm going to paraphrase this, says that perfectionism is essentially the result of being in an economic system that is hell-bent on exceeding human thresholds. You know, we're not machines, and so it's impossible to achieve perfection. We're
So maybe we'll have a backlash, but I wish I had a crystal ball. When you think of it that way and you think of the society in which we live, are we on a trajectory towards more people trying to be perfectionists?
Likely, yeah. The researchers Gordon Flett and Paul Hewitt have found that one in three young people have some form of clearly maladaptive perfectionism. Doctors Thomas Kern and Andrew Hill looked at 27 years of data and found that
perfectionism is increasing. There are three kinds. There's self-oriented perfectionism, which is when we're hard on ourselves. There's other-oriented perfectionism, when we're hard on other people. And then there is socially prescribed perfectionism, where we expect others to be hard on us.
And all three are increasing. But the last one, the socially prescribed perfection where we expect other people to be very demanding and critical of us is increasing like a rocket launch. And I think it is significant that the inflection point happened around 2005, which happens to be the year that Facebook was introduced to all of us.
You've used this word maladaptive a couple of times, and you've said self-critical, you're overly self-critical. But how do you know when your perfectionism has become maladaptive or you're overly self-critical? So one is that it becomes a problem in our relationships. So perfectionism is...
Interpersonally motivated, meaning it ultimately is trying to help us belong to the tribe, but it really guides us down the wrong path to get there. It tells us the lie that we have to perform as superbly as possible to get people to like us.
But, you know, think about why your friends are your friends. You know, are you friends with them because they're good at things? Like, do you like them because they're skilled at conversation or like they always pick a good restaurant or because they always remember your birthday? You know, none of those things are bad. Again, please keep doing that. But I'm guessing that is not why. Right.
You like them, like more likely you're friends with your friends because of how they make you feel, like connected, supported, understood, like you can be yourself. And so the lie of perfectionism is that we have to double down on performance in order to earn our way into belonging.
rather than focusing on connecting and enjoying each other. Let's just double click on that. I want everyone to hear that again, because I think that's, when I read the book, I think this is the thing that really jumped out at me. And I think, again, to remind my girls, some of them who have some of the traits that you're describing, Professor, that, hey, look, remember why your friends like you. Remember that those silly times, those classically imperfect times,
are the things that probably they remember the most and probably bond the friendship and the relationships even stronger. I think it's a really important point. Yeah. And I think sometimes if we feel pulled to perform, like perform being a good friend or perform being a good person so that we can be part of the group, we end up doing something called perfectionistic self-presentation. And that is when we only show what's going well
and we hide what's going poorly. And it makes sense. I see what we're doing. We're trying to keep ourselves socially safe by putting our best foot forward, by hiding the mess. But then what happens is we come across as superhuman or unrelatable or intimidating. And that actually keeps us isolated and disconnected. Because if we do show some of the mess,
it signals two things to the people around us. It signals, I trust you. I trust you to see some of the mess and to not judge or reject me for it. And it also sends the message of we are the same. If we're doing perfectionistic self-presentation and we come off as intimidating, sometimes that can give the vibe of this is a mentor-mentee relationship or this is a teacher-student relationship. Whereas if we
are vulnerable and show people some of what we're struggling with, or we ask for help, or we disclose some challenges that signals that we are the same. I'm like you. And then friendships are equal, equal relationships. They're not hierarchical. Show more of the mess. Think about that. I actually love that for the new year. More in just a moment. This podcast is supported by Sleep Number.
There's a reason the Sleep Number smart bed is the number one bed for couples. It's because you can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. Firmer or softer on either side, Sleep Number does that. One side cooler and the other side warmer, Sleep Number does that too. You have to feel it to believe it. Only Sleep Number smart beds let you choose your ideal comfort and support, your Sleep Number setting. Sleep Number smart beds learn how you sleep and provide personalized insights to help you sleep better.
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This is All There Is, Season 3. In the past year, I've listened to about 6,000 voicemail messages you've left for me after Season 2 and most of the ones sent in so far this season. When I listen to your messages, it makes me feel less different and alone. My grief is deep and real and it has brought me to my knees. Listen to All There Is with Anderson Cooper wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Chasing Life.
I have to admit that it took a little getting used to, but what Alan had to say did resonate with me. And I started to wonder for myself, if the world makes us learn to strive for perfection, treats it as a really worthy aspiration, then is it possible to unlearn or is it just the way we are?
So self-criticism is hardwired. We're never going to totally stop. So just like some brains are more optimistic or pessimistic, you know, some brains are just wired to be a little bit more self-critical. I have one of those brains.
But I've realized that I don't have to actually listen to the self-criticism. I can approach it kind of like I approach the music at a coffee shop. Or I can approach it like the music that gets played over the speakers at the grocery store. It's there. I can hear it. But it's not truth. It's not facts. I don't have to listen to it and take it so seriously and literally.
So this is one of a million ways of doing a technique called cognitive diffusion, which is essentially just getting some distance from the content of our thoughts, that this is just going through your head and you don't have to get yanked around by it or tangled up in it.
You use this word hardwired. Does it make a difference? I mean, in terms of these strategies, for example, are they more likely to work if this is a sort of taught or learned behavior versus something that is just part of your nature? I take the subtitle of the book really literally, Self-Acceptance for Self-Critics and Perfectionists, implying that we don't actually really have to change that much, that we can simply change.
accept, not like in a resigned way, like, oh, I guess this is how it's going to be, but like truly accept, like, this is how our brains are. And we can, again, change that relationship to the self-criticism. So I know that I'm genetically predisposed and, you know, probably I live in the world. So probably I come by perfectionism, honestly, because it's all around me. I have also learned to go against my nature when it comes to self-compassion.
So when I first learned about self-compassion, I learned that it was talking to yourself like a good friend.
But then my perfectionistic brain thought that I needed to feed myself this steady stream of articulate self-compassionate hype. And that was way too high a bar. So since then, I've learned to- You tried to be perfectionist and self-compassion. It was ridiculous. Yes. And I fully own this. So since then, luckily, I have learned that self-compassion can be way easier. It can be one word. It can be easy, gentle. It can be you're okay. Okay.
And even easier than that is self-compassion can be actions. Like it's, it's, we can't really control our thoughts. We can't really control our feelings, but we can control our actions. And so their self-compassion can be a hand on your heart. It can be one deep breath. It can be asking for help. It can be taking a break. It can be taking time to read a novel before bed.
Even just being 5% less hard on ourselves, 10% kinder to ourselves can make all the difference. And honestly, we might not end up doing anything differently on the surface. So for example, I had this client who we'll call Carter, and he was a college freshman,
And he, all his life had been labeled smart by his parents, his teachers. And so this was really important to him to maintain this label of smart. It was kind of like a rule that he had to be smart. And so he said to me, you know, okay, if I'm smart, there are certain things I have to do. That means I have to study for a long time. I have to study for at least like three hours a day. I cannot ask stupid questions that make me look like I don't know what I'm doing.
And so we tried to get him to shift from the rule of you have to be smart to the value of learning. And then that made the quality of his experience start to shift because it wasn't you have to do these things in order to maintain being smart. You should, you have to, you must. It was I'm interested in learning this material. I freely choose.
to be curious about this. And nothing really changed on the surface. He still studied for a long time. He still studied for like three hours a day, but the quality of what was underneath it, what was driving that was entirely different because it was freely chosen. So nothing much had to change, just under the hood, a couple of tweaks.
Information instead of evaluation. Correct. As a neurosurgeon, you do tend to be a micromanager. You can't leave anything to chance if you're doing brain surgery. And I remember the first time when I was working on something as a journalist to be able to let go a little bit and say, hey, these people know what they're doing. And while I don't fundamentally get it right now, like I also recognize that I'm working with professionals who are really good at what they do.
And to be able to have that dialogue with yourself, I think is it helped me. I mean, my situation is a bit unique, but I think I think it extends to to really anybody in their life. Oh, absolutely. The opposite of control is not being out of control. The opposite of control is trust.
And I think that those of us with some perfectionism might tend to try to double down on control in order to avoid mistakes to keep our higher rigid standards. But really, if we can learn to trust the people around us,
that not only will connect us to them, but we'll just make everything go better because now we have multiple brains on it. And yeah, on a neurosurgery team, I think trusting those people to do what they're good at, to do what they're trained at, will ultimately benefit us all. So I want to raise kids who...
are lovely children, but they're driven. They're conscientious. They recognize that we only have one life to live. So, you know, don't sit on the sidelines. Give it your all. But at the same time, I don't want to push them too hard and I certainly don't want to push them to maladaptive perfectionism. What's the guidance? What's the advice? Well...
I think it's fundamentally is to separate a little bit, you know, who they are from what they do to, you know,
And I think here, this gets into the difference between love and pride. And so, you know, pride is earned. You know, that is something that comes in response to performance, good performance. But love is freely given, you know. And so if I'm complimenting my kid because of a good grade or, you know, something they achieved, I'll make it clear that, like, I also love them no matter what. They could...
fail algebra, they could come in last and I would still love them with all my heart. So I think that, that difference, we wouldn't think that kids needed to be told that we would love them no matter what, but I think it, they, even if they know it, they still want to hear it. One thing, one thing I will say with humility, because you're the expert, I'm just, you know, I'm, I'm a guy just trying to make my way in the world. Um,
I'm right there with you. I'm on the same journey as my readers, let me just tell you. I find when I say I don't know, I don't know the answer to something. It actually goes much further towards engendering trust with somebody than you would think. I think it really goes a long way. I'd be really curious to hear from some of the people who are listening right now about
You are vulnerable with your kid. You say that, hey, I'm not, you know, I've screwed this up or I'm not achieving at the level I wanted to achieve. Do you worry that that may cause your kid to look at you differently and say, hey, you know.
You're not that great or whatever. Or is it more likely to create a stronger bond, to create more trust? But I'd be really curious, anyone listening to this, like how do they approach that? One thing I would say, again, with humility is that whatever it is, you have to be sincere about it. And I do think there's a key there. Happy New Year.
Happy New Year. Thanks so much for joining us again. I'd love to have you back. I always get great tips and great advice. And I thank you. My wife thanks you. And my daughters thank you as well. Oh, that's so kind. I'm tickled. I'm so glad that I've been helpful. That's the goal. Well, that's it for today's show. Stay tuned for more approaches to doing less in the new year. It got me thinking, what am I even trying to really accomplish when I'm
So it just got me thinking, what is this all for? How much of it is necessary for health? And how much of this is just a personal preference? And am I wasting time and money? Would I be better off if I did less? That's coming up on a future episode of Chasing Life.
Chasing Life is a production of CNN Audio. Our podcast is produced by Aaron Mathewson, Jennifer Lai, Grace Walker, and Jesse Remedios. Andrea Cain is our medical writer. Our senior producer is Dan Bloom. Amanda Seeley is our showrunner. Dan DeZula is our technical director, and the executive producer of CNN Audio is Steve Liktai.
With support from... Special thanks to...
There's a reason the Sleep Number smart bed is the number one best bed for couples. It's because you can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. Firmer or softer on either side, Sleep Number does that. One side cooler and the other side warmer, Sleep Number does that too. You have to feel it to believe it. Sleep better together. And now save 50% on the new Sleep Number limited edition smart bed. Limited time. Exclusively at a Sleep Number store near you.
See store or sleepnumber.com for details.
This week on The Assignment with me, Adi Cornish. The truth is that many of us warned about this. Reverend Gabriel Salguero, pastor of The Gathering Place in Orlando, Florida. What are the kinds of messages you have been getting? I got a call from somebody saying that they're not going to go to church because they're afraid. Many pastors are concerned that it will impinge on our religious liberty to serve immigrant communities and mixed status communities. What does it feel like to be on the front lines of the immigration debate?
Listen to The Assignment with me, Audie Cornish, streaming now on your favorite podcast app.