Holly Bobo Revisited: Case Updates with ABC News Senior Correspondent Eva Pilgrim
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Forensic Tales discusses topics that some listeners may find disturbing. The contents of this episode may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. This week, we're revisiting a case that captured national attention and shattered a small Tennessee community.

the abduction and murder of 20-year-old nursing student Holly Bobo. It's been over a decade since Holly disappeared from her home, sparking the largest search effort in state history. And while her remains were eventually found and a conviction secured, questions have lingered and new developments continue to emerge. ♪

Joining me for this week's episode is ABC News Senior National Correspondent and co-anchor of Good Morning America, Eva Pilgrim. Eva's covered the Holly Bobo case extensively, and she brings critical insight into the latest updates and what they could mean for the case.

This is Forensic Tales, episode number 280. My interview with ABC News' Eva Pilgrim about the updates on the Holly Bobo story. ♪

Thank you.

Before we get into today's interview, just a quick note. If you haven't already listened to episode 265, Holly Bobo, I highly recommend going back and checking it out first.

In that episode, we break down the full timeline of Holly Bobo's case, the lengthy investigation, and the trials that followed. It's going to give you the full context you need to get the most out of today's discussion. All right, let's get into it.

Hey Forensic Tales listeners, it's your host Courtney here. Our episode this week is going to look a little different than usual, but I think it's going to be something that you're really going to enjoy. So on the show this week, I have with me a very special guest. Now I know I have listeners from all over the world, of course, US where I'm from, but also the UK, which I will be at next

In just about four weeks from now at CrimeCon UK, but also listeners from Canada, Australia, a lot of different countries. But my guest for this week is an ABC News senior national correspondent and a Good Morning America co-anchor, Eva Pilgrim.

Now, I grew up listening and watching Good Morning America, ABC News. But Eva, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the Forensic Tales audience?

Thanks so much for having me, Courtney. I was a crime beat reporter in local news for many years before I got the job at ABC News working for the network. And so it was a natural fit once I got here that I would continue to cover crime. And I have a lot of experience working with law enforcement and also covering crime.

the judicial process as things go into the court system. And I've spent a lot of my time at ABC doing those types of stories. That's amazing. Yeah, it's so I feel so honored to have you on the podcast doing this episode with you. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today.

So I want to talk to you about so many things, but I want to talk to you about the Holly Bobo case. This is a story that we covered a couple months ago on the podcast. So I know many of the listeners are very familiar with Holly's case, the story. If you aren't, of course, go back and listen to the episode we did on the Holly Bobo story.

But Eva, what should someone know about the Holly Bobo case? Obviously, it's, you know, 15 years in the making. But what should someone know about Holly Bobo's case and her story?

So the very short cliff notes of what happened, I listened to your episode as well, is that there was this young woman named Holly Bobo, nursing student who was taken from her parents' home. And there was a man who was convicted of murdering her. Everyone thought the case was over. All of a sudden, recently, the

The star witness for the prosecution who helped convict that man has now recanted his testimony, his version of events of what happened, which has opened up questions about if the man convicted of murdering Holly Bobo will get a new trial. And that has dug up all kinds of rumors and speculation about what really happened in this case. And the question, what happened to Holly Bobo?

And I think that's still a question, to your point, Eva, 15 years down the road is what happened to her because –

Back in the episode that we did on Forensic Tales, we talked about six people ultimately being arrested at one point in this case. Of course, charges have been dropped. Confessions have been recanted over the years. But this is a story really where we still don't know what happened to Holly, even all of these years later, 15 years later.

I think there's a lot of questions as to what happened and what didn't happen and who's telling the truth. And it's a small town. You have to think about where this occurred. It's in Decatur County, Tennessee.

So there are a lot of people who, you know, they mean well, but people whisper about what's going on as they try to figure out where the truth actually lies. And in some ways, I think that has made some of these stories bigger.

which has made it harder to really see where the truth actually is. And I think investigators tried very hard to figure out what the truth is, but now all of that has sort of been unearthed again with this latest twist in the case. Yeah. So I, I, Eva, I would love to get right into that because again, even 15 years down the road, we're still, you know, this is a still widely covered case and there's a lot of stories out there. Um,

Why don't you, and I'm actually not privy to a lot of this information about sort of what are the latest updates in the case? What's been going on from what you could uncover or what you know? So we were fortunate enough to get our hands on the entire case file for Zach Adams' original trial and all the investigative materials that went into that.

And so we've been, our team here at ABC News has been digging through that case file and there is a lot. It's not a small file. This is a huge case file.

Because as you keep mentioning, this was years of investigation. It took them years to solve this case and bring it to trial the first time. So as we've combed through that, there's all kinds of things in that file from audio and video of the interrogations that occurred. There's video and audio of the polygraph tests, the polygraph tests that happened for some of these people, um,

All kinds of paperwork that looks at some of the forensic evidence, what they have, what they didn't have, what they discovered from it. But what's new that's happened recently is that the state's star witness, if you'll call him that, who says what happened and is the one thing that links Zach Adams to the murder of Holly Bobo is this guy named Jason Autry. He was one of his friends.

And Jason Autry has now come out saying he made the whole thing up, that he was just trying to save himself. And this was a death penalty case. He didn't want to die. So he made this deal, threw his friend under the bus.

in order to save himself. And Jason Autry, shortly after all of this was wrapped up, was released from prison. He is now back in prison on different, completely different charges. And he isn't looking to get out of jail anytime soon. He's going to be there for quite some time. But when asked about it, he felt like this was the time to say it wasn't true.

And the way that he explains that he was able to put the story together was that he had access to the information. So he formed his story, this is what he says, around the details that he was given to make it make sense. Yeah, which I think was...

An issue that investigators had and prosecutors had at one point was some of the information they were getting from the different witnesses here, Jason Autry being one of them, wasn't necessarily fitting with the evidence, you know, about the case and about the details just weren't fitting. The puzzle pieces weren't fitting. So it seems like Jason Autry's testimony here sort of helped investigators put those pieces together conveniently.

Yeah. And the thing to keep in mind right now, what's happening next in this case is that there is a hearing that's going to determine if Zach Adams gets a new trial. The judge has sent that hearing for later this month. He's put five days on hold so they can go through the evidence, what's new, what the defense attorney is saying should give him a new trial and determine

Zach Adams' attorney, Doug Bates, just filed a pretty lengthy filing into the court of some giving us a sort of peek at some of the evidence that we can expect. Surveillance footage of these guys, the day of Holly's kidnapping, that

And appears, or at least according to the attorney, appears to kind of shore up their alibi of what they say they were doing. Those four guys, there was a group of four of them that got wrapped up in all of this together, have said that they were buying drugs that day. They were quite honest about the fact that they were looking for pain pills. And so...

But there's video of them at an ATM and a gas station. And that's the stuff that he talks about in the filing. There's also an accusation of ineffective counsel. So we'll see what the judge actually determines of it. It's not likely we'll hear after this five-day hearing that Zach Adams will or won't get a new trial. But usually the way these things work is that they hear all the evidence and then the judge goes off and thinks about it and

in some weeks, maybe months ahead, issues a decision on it. And that's how we'll find out if he gets a new trial or if he doesn't. And these are all issues, Eva, to get a new trial. I don't think his attorneys are asking for the conviction to be completely thrown out, if I'm understanding correctly. This is his argument to get a new trial and kind of start fresh. Yeah.

Right. They're trying to point to with these types of things, you have to show new evidence or a reason that the original verdict, there's an issue with it. And so basically, when you look at Doug Bates's filing, he's throwing everything he has against the wall to see if any of it sticks. And we'll have to see what the judge determines of that.

And I think that's something any good defense attorney would do on behalf of their client. I think the... It's generally what they do. Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, they...

it's an interesting situation where a key witness changes his story and sort of comes out and says, you know, I kind of lied about what I said, speaking about Autry's testimony against Zachary Adams. It's certainly not the first time someone has done that. We've

I'm thinking of other cases we've done on Forensic Tales where, you know, a key witness has recanted their testimony. But it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out because Autry was a key figure in this.

Yeah, he was. He was the linchpin that made the case really happen for the prosecution. When you look at the physical evidence of the case, there's not physical evidence that ties them to the crime. So having a confession, a witness, was incredibly important to the state in order to get this conviction approved.

But we'll have to see what the judge decides if he believes that Jason Autry was telling the truth then, or is he telling the truth now? I mean, that's ultimately the question, right?

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Well, and I'm so glad you brought up the lack of physical evidence because, you know,

my show, Forensic Tales, we talk all about the forensic science, the genetic genealogy, the shoe print, the bite analysis, all these different hard sciences. And we don't really have it in this case. And I do try to put these types of cases on the podcast for a reason to kind of show that there might be a lack of

physical evidence to explain what happened, yet it still leads to convictions or it still leads to an arrest. So I think this case really highlights that there is no physical evidence. There is no forensic evidence as far as what I'm aware of. Yeah, I mean, in this case, there was blood at the carport of her parents' house. There's a shoe print. There's a handprint. There's

And it's not for lack of looking for physical evidence, right? Like at one point they ripped up the floorboards. They took the couch, parts of the couch. They took all of this evidence out of Zach Adams' home after he was originally, well, several times after he was a suspect when he became one of the major suspects at a later date. They really went through, but they never found anything that linked him to

From a DNA perspective or physical evidence perspective to the case, this confession from his friend was the evidence per se that put him there. So we'll have to see if they determine him to be credible and at what point was he credible and when is he not credible.

Yeah, and I mean, and given the fact that her, Holly Bobo's remains were found so much later, that's another issue when it comes to the physical and forensic evidence. Had we, you know, found her sooner, would there have been some type of physical or forensic evidence either on her clothing, her body, somehow connected to Zachary Adams? That would be the nail in the coffin and we probably wouldn't be sitting here today with

But when it comes down to a friend who has changed his story over the years, you know, it puts us in an interesting situation or puts him in an interesting situation. Yeah.

Yeah, it had been years when they found her body and they didn't find, you know, the whole of her body. They found, you know, they were able to find the skull and determine that she was shot in the head, but they weren't able to see everything as if they had found it very recently. And so that makes the evidence of that much, much more difficult.

But there is evidence in this case. I mean, there's definitely cell phone records. You have to remember it was a long time ago. So the way that you track cell phones is very differently than you track them now. I feel like cell phones give us so much more now. People, when they commit crimes with their cell phones, really have to be careful, right? But they were able to sort of map out where they think she was that day.

That day, based on the crossing of cell phone towers and what was possible and not possible. We talked with a U S Marshall about that and how he put that together. And, and they have those pings, if nothing else, that give you some hints, maybe not exact pinpoints, but it does give you some hints. And then, you know, things like her lunchbox and her notepad and that kind of stuff was, were found sort of scattered about. So there were hints as to why,

where at least her things were. So if she wasn't there, then her possible killer had been in those locations. So they did have that information. Yes, and very deliberate, in particular with her cell phone. I think, you know, taking it apart in certain things, throwing it alongside the road to kind of

you know, throw investigators off, like meaning Holly's killer taking her cell phone and making it difficult for police to try and track. Realizing they needed to get rid of it. Correct, which I mean is smart in a way, but also not because we are going to, investigators are going to be able to, you know, even in 2011, still be able to track that cell phone down.

So Eva, I want to talk about the podcast that comes out on May 6th, What Happened to Holly Bobo. I am really looking forward to listening to it. I mentioned at the top of the episode, I'm headed to CrimeCon UK in just a couple of weeks. So it's going to be perfect for my travels over to London. There's obviously a lot to this story, a lot that we've already talked about, a lot of people, a lot of different moving parts involved.

But in your podcast, What Happened to Holly Bobo, what did you choose to focus on for this podcast? Because again, a lot of other true crime podcasts have covered this story. There's a lot to talk about. What was important to you? What did you choose to focus on? I thought it was really important, especially given this hearing that's coming up, to walk through with people how we got here.

And what is it that we actually know as a fact, right? As a crime reporter, crime beat reporter for all these years, we had the access to the case file. So I wanted people to see and hear the things that we can hear from the case file. So

We have clips of like a polygraph test and the conversation that happens around that, letting people hear and decide for themselves what they think to be true. If they find someone to be credible, allowing that audio to sort of play out for people and,

to figure out their own judgments about it all and to hear all the evidence that actually existed in this case. You know, oftentimes in trials, you see the case as it's presented, but you don't see everything that both sides have, right? They are trying to

to help a jury see the case as they want to present it. And I thought it was really important in this scenario to sort of help people understand

Why they chose that information, but also what else existed, what didn't exist, what they didn't have. And I sort of paint the picture of the frustration. I think that a lot of people felt as they were waiting for answers on this case, who the other suspects were, how long did they spend on that, that landed them where they landed with the four guys that they ended up focusing on.

And throughout the course of going through all of that, because that's a lot of information, right? What were some things that maybe surprised you or maybe things that you learned that you didn't know or misconceptions about this case that you learned?

You know, I think it's interesting because I'd heard about, for instance, Karen Bobo getting frustrated at one point and interviewing people herself, right? Because she wanted answers. She was tired of waiting and hadn't gotten answers. But to hear her actually do those interviews, and that's interesting. To hear Clint Bobo even in that polygraph that he took, he at one point sort of unprompted said,

mentions the fact that he knows people are judging him because he didn't do enough to save his sister. When you hear that audio, you'll have an opinion of what you think of Clint Bobo and what he said. And I think allowing people to hear that for themselves, it changes it. It's not just me telling you Clint Bobo said this. It's

you hear the way he says it that I think is very interesting. And there are certain people that you're going to feel sad for. There are other people you're going to be confused by. And I think that's the whole point, right, is to let people decide for themselves. And so that is the beauty of getting to do this is

We were allowed the access to this file and I think giving other people the access to hear it themselves is going to raise more questions, but also let people form their own opinions.

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I think I really am looking forward to listening to Clint Bobo because I think he's someone in this story, not just the brother, not just, you know, what he saw the day that Holly was taken, but he sort of found himself in the crosshairs when, um,

stories and rumors were being told about why certain people may have been at the Bobo house related to cooking up and making drugs, different rumors out there with why certain people were at his house. So I would be really curious to see how he might address some of those. I don't want to call them rumors, but what people people talk about when it comes to Clint Bobo.

Well, it's interesting because every single investigator we talked to told me completely separate of the others. They believe Clint Bobo. So there are all these rumors that have been circulating around about him. And yet the people investigating the case, they checked out everything that he said. They found him to be credible. They think he's telling the truth.

And so that's one of those interesting ones to hear for yourself. I think also Terry Britt, which there's been a lot of speculation about Terry Britt as well, because he was a suspect for a while, eventually cleared by TBI in this case. But you can hear Terry Britt, some of the interviews with Terry Britt as well. And you can decide for yourself what you think of him. It's

Hearing them in their own words, there is something definitely intriguing about that. Which I think this podcast will really open up people's eyes and ears to because these are going to be voices and versions of stories that maybe they have never heard before because –

Most people that know about this case, mostly speaking to the true crime community and true crime podcasting community, they only really hear the story from the podcast host. So I think this will be really unique in the sense where they can hear directly from a lot of these people.

key figures to this story and a lot of I mean interviews and conversations that I know I haven't heard before and I thought I knew a lot about this case.

You know, I mean, even for us, right, because we had the last story we did on this. It was a two hour 2020. And that seems like a lot of time. But when you look at the case file, it's just not enough time. And this story, as you know, with all the suspects and the way that it sort of moves and weaves and changes, it's

It's not simple to tell. And I think to be able to kind of give it some space where you can explain the different people involved, really understand who they are and the role that they plug into and how they get wrapped up in this case. I think I hope it makes it more understandable for people to how we got here. Exactly. And going through your journey through making the podcast,

Have you come up with your own thoughts and theories about what happened to Holly Bobo? Because you know everyone has an opinion about is the right person in prison for this crime or not. Did someone get away with this? Do you have any thoughts and opinions one way?

I, I, I generally try not to have thoughts and opinions. But I will tell you with this case, I feel like I know less now of what I think could have happened than I did before I started. I don't think.

I don't think I know. I don't think any of us could know, right? I think the person who did this knows that they did it and everyone else is just guessing. I think the investigators have their reasons for the leads that they followed and who they chose to charge and then that person eventually convicted and

But as far as from me, for like a journalist perspective, I have no, I am no closer to feeling certain as to what happened, which is part of why we named the podcast a question mark. What happened to Holly Bobo is because I don't feel like any of us really knows. And I don't know that that question, even in the original conviction was really answered. Well, and something that,

I like to talk about or I choose to talk about at the end of most of my episodes is the idea of closure and the idea of justice. You know, is there closure? Is there justice in a particular case? And with something like Holly's case,

you know, for her family and loved ones, did they feel like at one point there was closure knowing what happened to her arrests were made convictions. Was there justice? There were life sentences and whatnot, but now with new information coming to light, what that does for her family and loved ones thinking that they once had closure and once had justice and

Now, who knows? I think this is all pretty painful for her family. I think her family believes justice was done. And this is a reopening of the wound for them in a lot of ways. And, you know, it's hard because in one case, they...

How can someone ever heal from something like this, especially if it keeps coming up? And then in the next breath, if someone is behind bars that didn't commit a murder, is that truly justice? And so it's not an easy answer on this story. And I don't know that we have the answer to that or will have the answer to that anytime soon.

Well, and hopefully we'll at least gain a little more insight into the future here with these upcoming hearings in regards to Zachary Adams and kind of see what the judge decides in the case and what unfolds from that. Hopefully we'll get a little more answers than we sit here with today. Yes, at least we'll know what will happen next. Correct.

So what can we, so the first episodes of What Happened to Holly Bobo, again, come out May 6th. What, because I know a lot of my listeners are going to be subscribing and following this story. What can they expect through the podcast series? Yeah.

So the goal is to take people through what happened and we pretty much follow a chronological order. So the very first episode is the day Holly goes missing and everything that happens. A painting, a picture of the community at that time, how they got involved, how quickly this investigation unfolded, where the leads were. And we take the leads as they come and

And the goal is to take listeners with us through, you know, in a sped up version of real time, what investigators were facing as they did that and where they went and how they went there so that they can understand as we get to current day, where we are and how we got here. I think that's the big goal and why certain people feel the way that they do, I think. Yeah.

It makes more sense when you look at the big picture. You have to remember this was the most expensive case in the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation's history. It took years for them to solve. They poured a lot of resources and manpower into this. So there's no question this was a case they wanted answers to.

Well, I know I'm really, when we hop off now, I'm going to listen to the first episode of the podcast series. I know I'm really looking forward to hearing things that even through my research of the case, learning something new and maybe getting a different perspective on the case. And I know my listeners feel the same way.

Well, Eva, thank you so much for talking about this case. Thank you for your work on it. Holly's story is definitely one that deserves to be told and the truth deserves to be uncovered. So thank you so much for your work on it and bringing this story to light in possibly a new way that maybe people

could change people's perception of it. Is there anything else that you would like to add for the listeners that, like I said, I know will be tuning into the episodes? We have an interview with Zach Adams. We interviewed him in jail, so we have that conversation that's also interesting to hear. He at one point talks about if him and Holly meet each other in heaven, what they would say to each other. And it was a really interesting

odd but also interesting moment um it's like that sort of makes you scratch your head a bit yeah i mean that's certainly something i would never imagine to hear yeah um so yeah i i i think it will be i don't think it has all the answers which is why we left it with a question mark but i do think

It will have people asking more questions, which I don't think is a bad thing. Well, thank you again so much, Eva. This was a great conversation and I'm really looking forward to subscribing and listening. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with my listeners. What happened to Holly Bobo again, May 6th. Thanks, Courtney.

Thank you.

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Thank you for listening. I'll see you next week. Until then, remember, not all stories have happy endings.

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