Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. What are some of your self-care non-negotiables? Maybe you never skip leg day or therapy day. When your schedule is packed with kids' activities, big work projects, or podcasting like me, it's easy to let your priorities slip. Even when we know it makes us feel good, it's hard to make time for it.
But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. Therapy can help with things like how to set healthy boundaries or find ways to be the best version of yourself. So if you're thinking about starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule.
Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist or switch therapist anytime for no additional charge. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash tails to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash tails.
Forensic Tales discusses topics that some listeners may find disturbing. The contents of this episode may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. The brutal murder of a six-year-old child beauty pageant queen in Christmas 1996 sent shockwaves felt around the world. JonBenet Ramsey was discovered murdered inside of her very own home in Boulder, Colorado, just seven hours after she'd been reported missing.
Her killer left behind a chilling three-page ransom letter that left many detectives scratching their heads. Nobody could comprehend how a six-year-old girl could be strangled with a handmade garrotte and could also sustain a broken skull.
Early on in the case, with little signs of an intruder entering inside of the Ramsey home that Christmas night, the Boulder police were left with only two main suspects. But as the years turned to decades, without an arrest, the murder of JonBenet Ramsey has become one of the most notorious unsolved murders our country has ever experienced. Will JonBenet's killer ever be identified?
And how can forensic science help crack this one? This is Forensic Tales, episode number 52, The Murder of John Benet Ramsey, part two. ♪
Welcome to Forensic Tales. I'm your host, Courtney Fretwell.
Forensic Tales is a weekly true crime podcast that discusses real, bone-chilling true crime stories with a forensic science twist. Some cases have been solved. Others have turned cold.
If you're interested in supporting the show and getting early access to weekly episodes and bonus material, consider visiting our Patreon page, patreon.com slash Forensic Tales. I want to give a huge shout out and thank you to the show's newest patron, Laura G. Thank you so, so much, Laura. You rock.
Another great way you can help support Forensic Tales is by leaving us a positive rating with a review. Now, let's get to part two of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. Hi everyone. I hope you guys all had a safe and wonderful Christmas holiday. And now here we are. It's the very last week of what has felt like the longest year in history, 2020.
So if you didn't catch the announcement on Instagram, our show is getting a new logo for the new year. If you want to vote for your favorite design, we've got the two final logos up on our Patreon page. So to vote for the winning design, check out patreon.com slash forensic tales.
I mentioned on the show last week that we were going to be covering the murder of JonBenet Ramsey in a two-part special. I knew I wanted to cover it over two weeks because last week marked the 24th anniversary of the case. So if you haven't downloaded and listened to part one yet, go ahead, hit pause on this one. Don't worry, we'll be right here when you get back.
Last week in part one on the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, we talked about the morning of December 26th, 1996. That was the day that JonBenet's body was discovered inside of a room in the basement of the Ramsey's home in Boulder, Colorado. Her body was discovered just hours after Patsy Ramsey stumbled upon the three-page ransom note on a back staircase in the home.
Right from the get-go, the investigation that was led by the Boulder Police Department was extremely flawed. From the house not being secured, to inexperienced officers responding to the call, to the cross-contamination of important forensic evidence along the way. This investigation was compromised right from the starting line.
In the days, weeks, and months following the murder, John and Patsy Ramsey were extremely reluctant and often described as being uncooperative with the Boulder Police Department. It wasn't until handwriting analysis experts couldn't definitively rule out Patsy as the author of the ransom letter that the parents of John Benet finally sat down with Boulder detectives and
And by this point, the case had already captured the attention of the entire country. Every American household followed every step of John Bonnet's case. In part two, we'll be covering the rest of the story up until it stands today. We're going to talk about the official autopsy report, possible theories and suspects. And finally, I'll share with you who I think murdered John Bonnet.
We ended part one back in May 1997 when Boulder's district attorney, Alex Hunter, came out and publicly announced that John and Patsy Ramsey were under a quote umbrella of suspicion in their daughter's murder.
And I mentioned last week that this was the first time that pretty much every American sat back and pretty much waited for John and Patsy to be arrested. That didn't quite happen. The results of the second round of DNA testing from the crime scene, as well as from John Bonet's body, came back. And they were, quote, no surprises in their report.
Meaning nothing definitively came from the DNA testing either to implicate the Ramseys in the murder or really anyone else for that matter. And without any solid physical or forensic evidence linking John and Patsy to the murder, there really isn't enough evidence or probable cause to make an arrest. Boulder police thought they were definitely being uncooperative with them.
And they had experts who couldn't rule out Patsy's handwriting for the ransom letter. But when it comes to a murder charge or any criminal charge, that's just not enough probable cause to arrest somebody. You need more. You need a lot more than that. So months go by while detectives continue to try and find John Bonet's killer.
Investigators really believed that John and Patsy were somehow involved in their daughter's murder. They just needed to work to find enough evidence. It wasn't until January 29th, 1998, more than a year after John Bonnet's murder, that the Ramseys turn over to police the clothing that they were wearing the night before John Bonnet was found dead.
John and Patsy turned over to the Boulder police two t-shirts, a pair of pants, and a sweatshirt. The clothing they wore the night, well, that should have been submitted into evidence and submitted for forensic testing almost immediately following the discover of John Benet's body. Why were the parents' clothes not tested earlier?
Because the clothing wasn't turned over for over a year, well, this pretty much guarantees to now be useless when it comes to the investigation. After looking for John Benny's killer for 15 months, Boulder detectives approached Alex Hunter, Boulder's DA at the time, and they requested that a grand jury be called in to decide whether there was enough evidence against John and Patsy.
Grand juries are great when the police and prosecutors want members from the general public, just like we have in regular criminal trials, to hear evidence and to be able to decide whether there's enough to pursue a criminal case. They are also really helpful for prosecutors to determine if this is a winnable case or not.
So Hunter agreed with the Boulder Police Department that it would be a good idea to present the evidence they had against John and Patsy Ramsey, but it would take another five months to select the members of this special grand jury.
During the months that it took to select the members of the grand jury, a lot of new evidence emerged. This case had well over 1,100 pieces of evidence. But the biggest was that an enhanced version of the original 911 call that Patsy made the morning she discovered the ransom letter was created.
the call that I played for you back in part one, but now this audio had been enhanced. So the enhanced recording, at least according to some, includes Burke's voice in the background, John Benny's older brother, Burke's voice in the background,
contradicts John and Patsy's earlier statements to police that Burke was asleep right up until the point that police arrived that morning. On this enhanced call, it's believed that the phone's receiver was accidentally left off the hook and Patsy can be heard in the background just screaming, while it's Burke's voice that's believed to be asking his mom what has been found.
Then another voice is heard, believed to be John's voice, saying something to the effect of, it's none of your business, go back to bed. Some people completely buy into this quote-unquote enhanced 911 call, while some say it's impossible to tell exactly what is being said in the background.
To me, personally, when I've listened to this enhanced version, it's hard without subtitles directly guiding my ears to hear what someone wants me to hear. You can't really hear much on your own, at least in my opinion. So in mid-September 1998, the grand jury began hearing forensic evidence in the case.
They heard testimony about the handwriting analysis that was done on the ransom letter. They learned about DNA, hair, fiber that was recovered from the crime scene. The grand jury even toured the Ramsey's home in Boulder, the home where John Bonet's murder took place.
The grand jury didn't come back with a decision until October 1999, now close to three years after John Bonet's murder. I know you're wondering, like, what took so long? The grand jury did take at least five months off, and there was a lot going on at the time. They weren't meeting that entire time.
But on October 13th, 1999, Alex Hunter, the DA, publicly announced that his team of prosecutors didn't believe there was sufficient evidence to warrant filing any criminal charges against John and Patsy Ramsey or anyone else for that matter. Of course, this announcement by Alex Hunter was a huge relief for John and Patsy.
For almost three years, they were under the pressure of not knowing if a grand jury was going to indict them for murder or not. Or there was a possibility that this grand jury could indict them on other charges, not necessarily murder. Maybe accessories after the fact or any other charge related to John Benet's murder.
So when the DA announced that they wouldn't be filing charges against John and Patsy, they could let out a huge sigh of relief, at least for now. But this announcement also meant that still, three long years of investigating, they wouldn't be making an arrest. They still didn't know who was out there responsible for killing John Bonnet.
Once the Boulder DA announced that his office would not be pursuing any criminal charges against John and Patsy Ramsey, the official grand jury court papers were sealed until the year 2013. This is when things take a different turn. In October 2013, now almost 17 years after John Binney's murder,
Court documents were released that revealed the Colorado grand jury back in 1999 voted to indict John and Patsy on criminal charges of child abuse resulting in death and being accessories to a crime. This was totally unexpected because back in 1999, the Boulder DA said there wasn't sufficient evidence to charge the parents.
And even back in 2008, when Boulder got a new DA, this district attorney said that the new DNA evidence actually cleared both John and Patsy in the murder and officially cleared their son Burke. So it's incredibly interesting that we learned in 2013, all those years later, that the original grand jury voted to indict the parents.
This jury believed that John and Patsy and possibly nine-year-old Burke may have killed John Bonnet or at the very least said that there was enough probable cause to file criminal charges. But this is a great example to illustrate the fact that a grand jury doesn't have the final say when filing criminal charges. That's the role and responsibility of our prosecutors.
The prosecution's office has the final say as well as the final discretion to pursue charges. A grand jury can just be a tool that the prosecution uses. So over the years and now decades, a lot has happened. Patsy Ramsey died back in 2006 from a long battle with ovarian cancer. Burke is now in his 30s.
And John Ramsey has remarried now for the third time. I say a lot has happened, but I also say at the same time, nothing has happened. Because to this very day, nobody has been found responsible for killing John Bonnet. And her case still remains a complete mystery. I said earlier that we were going to cover the official autopsy report.
In part one, we discussed that her cause of death had been a combination of being strangled with a garrote, and she also had suffered a severe skull fracture that ran a little over eight inches long. But that wasn't all the medical examiner found at the autopsy. There was evidence that John Benet had been sexually assaulted, although this couldn't be confirmed 100%.
The medical examiner found dried blood, bruising, and some small abrasions to her vaginal area. Experts in the field of child abuse over the years have argued whether what was observed on John Binney's body proved sexual assault or doesn't. Some experts say that if a child walked into their hospital with that type of bruising, they would absolutely be looked at for abuse.
while other experts aren't too bothered by what the medical examiner noted. Those that attest to the argument that she had been sexually assaulted point to the broken paintbrush, the garrotte, as being the possible instrument that was used. John Benet's underwear was also tested, and the test came back with an unknown male DNA profile.
This unknown male DNA profile didn't match John or Burke or any male in the Ramsey family. Over the years, people who believe in the Ramsey's innocence argue that this unknown male DNA profile on her underwear proves the intruder theory that someone broke in and murdered John Bonnet.
Others say that this DNA profile could have gotten on her underwear from just an inconsequential contact with other people and may even be a DNA composite from multiple people, which can't definitively rule the Ramseys out in that case. There was also an unknown male DNA profile on the Long Johns that JonBenet was wearing that didn't match any male in the Ramsey family.
Again, some argue this proves the intruder theory, while others say this unknown male DNA profile is worthless as far as evidence goes. The medical examiner also found pieces of undigested pineapple in John Bonnet's stomach, which suggests that she may have eaten after returning from Christmas dinner at the White's.
This contradicts the Ramsey story that John Bonnet fell asleep on the way home from the Whites and was put right to bed that night. The uneaten pineapple suggests that it was eaten shortly before her death and wasn't fully digested at the time that she died. Now, a bowl of pineapple as well as a glass of milk were both found in the Ramsey kitchen when police arrived at the home.
And the presence of the pineapple in John Bonnet's stomach gets us to our first theory in the case. One theory that has emerged over the years is that Burke, John Bonnet's nine-year-old brother, may have caused her death. Some believe that Burke ate that bowl of pineapple as a late night snack. John Bonnet and Burke both loved pineapple. It was actually one of their favorite snacks.
And the theory is that while Burke was eating the pineapple, John Benet reached in, grabbed herself a couple pieces from the bowl, causing Burke to become upset with his sister. Burke then grabbed an object, which some believe may have been a flashlight that was also found in the kitchen or possibly some other blunt object.
And then he struck John Benet over the head, causing the skull fracture that we saw in the autopsy. It's then believed that after John and Patsy become aware that Burke has nearly killed John Benet from the blow to her head, they then stage the scene to look like an intruder in order to protect Burke, who again is only nine years old.
Of course, once they stage the murder to look like an intruder broken and killed her, that's when Patsy uses a notepad from the kitchen, uses her very own pen, and then writes the three-page ransom letter.
I know you're probably wondering, well, could Burke really get that angry with JonBenet for reaching in the bowl and taking a couple pieces of pineapple? Like, what's the big deal? Well, those who believe in this as a possible theory point to the fact that Burke, well, Burke has a history of violence, specifically violence with JonBenet.
Reports indicate that just one week prior to JonBenet's death, he apparently hit her with a golf club. There were also other unverified reports that Burke had been violent with JonBenet on several previous occasions.
So those that believe this theory say it's not too far off course for Burke to get angry and ultimately violent with JonBenet. This time, he just took it a little too far. This theory also presents issues regarding Jon and Patsy's involvement. This theory means that at least Patsy would have had to stage the whole thing in order to cover and protect Burke.
This also means that they would have had to create the garrotte and strangle their own daughter, which was the ultimate cause of death here. They would also have had to stage it to look like she had been sexually assaulted. They would have had to do all of this in order to protect Burke or at the very least to protect the family image. Now that I've mentioned the garrotte again, let's talk about that.
The garrote used to strangle JonBenet was made from nylon rope and a broken wooden paintbrush. When the CBI tested the weapon back in February 1997, they didn't find any fingerprints on it. On the nylon cord itself, they found a mixed DNA sample. The major DNA component belonged to JonBenet,
And there was a minor DNA component that belonged to an unidentified subject. This unidentified sample isn't consistent with any of the Ramseys and also isn't consistent with the unknown male DNA that was found on JonBenet's underwear. This was an entirely different DNA profile. Even more interesting are the materials that were used to create the garrote.
Investigators tied the paintbrush to a broken brush found in a paint kit inside of the basement that belonged to Patsy. But the nylon cord that was used for the garage was never found. And this particular type of nylon cord couldn't be linked to anything that the Ramseys owned.
There's also some debate about whether Patsy and or John had the knowledge of these types of knots that were used to create the garrotte. The knots that were used weren't your typical like tie your shoelace kind of knot. They were more elaborate.
And nothing indicates that Patsy or John had any special knowledge about how to create these different types of knots that were used. Isn't the only possible suspects named in the Ramsey family? Others who don't believe the pineapple incident, they still point their fingers at Patsy.
Even though Patsy took whatever secrets she had about what really happened that morning to the grave when she died, and even though she was officially exonerated back in 2008, many people out there still suspect that she had something to do with the murder.
First off, it's been speculated that Patsy became angry with JonBenet that night after a bedwetting incident, which was said to have occurred with some frequency. Patsy became enraged with yet another bedwetting incident, and she struck JonBenet's head against the edge of some hard surface, maybe a bathtub. And then once she realized what she had done, she had to cover it up.
We know part of the garrotte came from a paintbrush taken from her paint kit that was lying nearby. And most troubling is the ransom letter. Not only did the ransom letter mention $118,000, the exact same amount of John's bonus that year
But the letter referenced a number of different crime movies, specifically references from the movies Speed, Ransom, and Dirty Harry. And when I say references, you guys, I mean some of these are like direct quotes. The letter says, don't try to grow a brain, John. Don't attempt to grow a brain is a direct quote from the movie Speed.
The letter begins with Mr. Ramsey, listen carefully, explanation mark. A quote from Dirty Harry is now listen, listen very carefully. From the movie Ransom, do not involve the police or the FBI. If you do, I will kill him. Sound familiar? So in total, there were over 10 phrases that were pulled almost directly from these movies.
And speaking of the ransom letter, we have to address the fact that the letter claims to have John Benet in their possession. And they will return her once they get that $118,000 that they want. This is weird because by the time this person wrote the letter, John Benet was dead. She was never kidnapped. She was found inside the closet in the basement.
So if the killer knows that John Bonnet is already dead, what is the point of writing the ransom letter to begin with? Some speculate that it was Patsy's attempt to further throw off investigators. Okay, so there's theories that either Burke, Patsy, or even John had something to do with the murder. But these aren't the only theories that have been tossed around.
I think it's important for us to go back to the beauty pageants. So we know that JonBenet participated in hundreds of kid beauty pageants. Unfortunately, there's an underworld to these competitions. It's a breeding ground for child sexual predators.
pedophiles and just sickos who are known to disguise themselves as being parents of kids who are competing or pretend to be agents for these kids. And they show up to these competitions and basically get off by watching these kids. So it's been theorized over the years that those who believe in the intruder theory are
meaning someone broke into the Ramsey home and murdered JonBenet, may have been someone who saw her compete in one of those beauty competitions. And after seeing her, he became obsessed and then later killed her. One such predator came forward in 2006.
A former school teacher by the name of John Mark Carr came out of the blue and confessed to killing John Benet. After providing some very graphic and very sexual details about the murder, Carr was arrested by police in Thailand, where he was living at the time. He was hiding out in Thailand after facing child pornography charges here in the States.
So when Carr came out and confessed to the murder and we learned about the child pornography charges, we were all like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay, this is the guy. We finally know who killed JonBenet. Carr was a really, really strange dude. If you had to picture who would have killed JonBenet, this was the kind of guy you'd imagine.
He tells police that he strangled JonBenet in a quote, love game gone wrong. He claims that they were in some sort of romantic relationship, even though JonBenet was just six years old. But he totally claims that he didn't intend to kill her, that it was just a complete accident.
The only problem was, besides how crazy his story is, is that he wasn't John Benet's killer. His DNA did not match the DNA found on John Benet's Long Johns. John Mark Carr was ultimately written off as a pedophile who simply wanted the notoriety and fame that would come from being labeled as John Benet's killer.
which again further speaks to just how sick and twisted this guy is. So what about other possible suspects that have emerged over the years? A then 32-year-old known sex offender in the Boulder, Colorado area, a guy by the name of Gary Oliva, was named as a possible suspect. When Oliva was arrested back in 2000 on some drug charges,
Police found a magazine cut out of JonBenet in his backpack. Again, he was a registered sex offender who was in the Boulder area at the time of JonBenet's murder. During the course of the investigation into this guy, the Ramseys had hired a private investigator, Ollie Gray, to try and help them find the killer. And Ollie Gray was once convinced that Gary Oliva was the guy.
Oliva had an old high school friend, Michael Vail, who said that Oliva called him up on the phone not too long after John Benny's murder and told his friend that he had, quote, hurt a little girl.
Michael Vail also said that the knots that were used to create the garrotte looked very similar to knots that Oliva tied on a previous occasion, an occasion where he attempted to strangle his own mother with a telephone cord. So here's Gary Oliva, a sex offender, living in the Boulder, Colorado area at the time of John Bonet's murder. Maybe this is the guy.
But just like with John Mark Carr, Gary Oliva was also cleared by DNA testing. He isn't the guy responsible either. So when we talk about possible theories on who killed JonBenet, they all come down to two theories. You either believe in the intruder theory or you believe someone from the Ramsey family is responsible.
The intruder theory is simply that, that a stranger, an intruder, broke into the house, took John Bonnet from her bed, and then likely took her down into the basement and ultimately killed her. The Ramseys, who maintained their innocence, obviously believe in the intruder theory.
Something that those believe in the intruder theory point out as proof also comes from John Bonnet's autopsy. The medical examiner noted burn-like marks on her face and on her back. The Ramseys believe that these marks are consistent with a stun gun. The marks are the same size and come in sets of two.
just like you'd expect from a stun gun burn. And the family says this piece of evidence points to the intruder theory. Because they don't own a stun gun, it would have been impossible for them to inflict these marks. They also believe that a stun gun was likely used to subdue and possibly get JonBenet out of bed and down into the basement without making much of a sound.
The other big piece of evidence that the Ramseys point to for an intruder theory is a broken window in the basement right near where John Benet's body was found. According to John Ramsey himself, the basement window became broken after he locked himself out of the house and had to break the window in order to get back inside. And before the murder, he never got around to fixing it.
This theory around the broken window has been dismissed, reopened, dismissed, and reopened over the years. At first, it was dismissed because there were spiderwebs around the window that weren't disturbed, making it impossible for someone to have gone through it. Then this idea was reopened when retired Colorado detective Lou Smit, a guy who worked very closely with the Ramseys,
said that it's entirely possible for someone to fit through the window and to not disturb the cobwebs. You can even watch A&E's documentary, which you should if you have any interest in the John Binet case. It's called The Killing of John Binet Ramsey, The Truth Uncovered on A&E. And if you watch it, you can see Lou Smit demonstrate how someone would enter through this kind of relatively small window.
Loosemont also points to the fact that a suitcase was discovered underneath the window inside of the basement, possibly used as a step down. He also says that there was an unidentified fingerprint lifted from the suitcase that doesn't belong to anybody in the Ramseys, doesn't belong to John Bonnet, and that this fingerprint on the suitcase underneath the window could possibly belong to the killer.
The problem with this theory, just like so many other aspects to this case, is that every answer leads to more and more questions. It's impossible to determine whether or not the person responsible for killing John Bonnet entered the home through this window in the basement or if they got inside some other way. The 24th year anniversary of John Bonnet's murder is now.
If she were alive today, she would be 30 years old. She would be my age, the age of a lot of my friends. There's something about her murder that has captured the attention of so many Americans and also people across the world. Was it the fact that she was a child beauty pageant contestant? Was it the way, the brutal way that she was killed?
Was it the ransom letter or the suspicion over the years that her family may somehow be involved? There's so much about this case that has helped it become one of America's most notorious unsolved mysteries. Everybody interested in true crime wants to know who killed JonBenet Ramsey.
Whenever I talk about this case, I always get asked, and if you have talked about it with a friend, you get asked the same question. Who do I think the killer is? Who do you think the killer is? And like many of you, I'm unclear. Obviously, I don't know for a fact who the killer is.
But when someone asks me which theory that I tend to lean towards, well, I tend to think that the Ramsey family knows more than what they will ever let on to. I tend to lean away from the intruder theory and I lean towards the direction of the Ramseys.
That's not to say that if this case does, in fact, get solved somewhere down the road and it's proven through DNA or otherwise that the intruder theory is true, that a stranger killed John Bonnet, that I would be totally shocked. I wouldn't be. I think it is absolutely plausible an intruder did this. However, my opinion is that I lean towards the family.
Specifically, I look at Bert. I look at Patsy. I look at the ransom letter, the undigested pineapple in John Benny's stomach. Something about this just doesn't sit well with me. I'm absolutely not using the show to accuse anybody.
But my gut says that something just isn't right. I still have so many unanswered questions. And I know I mentioned that I look at the ransom letter. I don't know if it was Patsy's writing definitively or not. I know that many experts over the years have identified many similarities. And then the other part, the undigested pineapple and John Binney's stomach.
To some people, this may seem like a very small, unimportant detail. But to me, in my opinion, I think that's a huge detail. At the very least, it speaks to a contradiction that John and Patsy have maintained. That John Bonnet fell asleep sometime either at the White's or in the car ride back to their home and that she was put right to bed.
John and Patsy Ramsey have always contended that she went right to bed, that she didn't eat. But we know that's not true. And we know that Burke was nine years old. John Bonet was six. So unless the kids, I don't know, got together, went into the fridge and cut up some pineapple on their own without either of their parents knowing, to me, this is just a detail that, again, at the very least speaks to a contradiction, right?
And at the very worst, speaks to something bigger than that. So the next million million dollar question is, will John Bonet's murder ever be solved? This is one where I think it's possible and maybe even likely that we will never know who the killer is.
Until someone pops up on the police radar and their DNA is matched to the unidentified samples found at the scene and also found on JonBenet's clothing, we may never know. This case may absolutely be a cold case forever, and we might have to settle that we may never know who killed JonBenet Ramsey.
This is the part that I turn to you. Who do you think killed JonBenet Ramsey? Share your theories with the show on Instagram at ForensicTales or head over to our website ForensicTales.com or even on Facebook. I want to hear what you think really happened. Until then, remember, not all stories have happy endings.
Thank you.
You can also help support the show by leaving us a positive review and telling friends and family about us.
Forensic Tales is a podcast made possible by our Patreon producers, Tony A, Nicole L, William R, David B, Katrina G, and Sammy. If you'd like to become a producer of the show, head to our Patreon page or email me at Courtney at ForensicTales.com to find out how you can become involved.
For a complete list of sources used in this episode, please visit ForensicTales.com. Please join me next week. We release a new episode every Monday. Until then, remember, not all stories have happy endings.
Thank you.