Kris Sims and The Carbon Tax Retreat
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Well, I'm not so sure it's not the biggest story of the week because it impacts the economy, impacts politics. But I got to tell you this. I'm sitting down earlier in the week and this headline comes across my computer and it goes, federal government's going to cancel the carbon tax for three years in Atlantic, Canada on heating oil.

And I can't even say my WT something moment because I was just, are you kidding me? And my first thought was, oh, that's right. They got 24 seats there. So they're concerned more about that than they are climate change. But something that Chris Sims has been on, the Alberta director of the Taxpayer Federation, Taxpayer.com, Canadian Taxpayer Federation. I encourage you to go to Taxpayer.com. Chris, what was your first reaction when you saw that?

Well, it was joy because we finally see a crack in the dam. As your listeners know, the Taxpayers Federation has been fighting against the carbon tax and pointing out that this is completely unaffordable for normal people and that it's totally unfair to punish people for the sin of heating their home in Canada. We've been fighting on that now for years. And to have Trudeau blink, he

He's finally blinked on this. And he has had to admit that, oh, this is punishing people for staying warm and people can't afford it. Politically speaking, he's really stepped in it here. His leg is in a bear trap. We've got premiers all calling for him to give everybody the equal amount of relief on their home heating. I don't know how he gets out of this. Well,

Well, your point's also very well taken in terms of, wait, we were told this was to fight climate change. So when you take it off, what are you doing there? We were told that the carbon tax would put more money in our pockets. So are you actually taking money out of the people's pockets, especially in

Eastern care, Atlantic Canada, you know, I mean, just on every step and we had a minister Guilbeault. Well, I think it was literally three days before saying, we're not going to do any of that. We're not going to have any breakouts. You can't have any breakout. And literally like whatever it was, 48, 72 hours later, you're breaking it out. So there's just so many fronts on that basis. Yeah. To see the science quickly pivot and become political science. Fascinating. Yeah.

And you nailed it because he's got so many seats there. And now a little bit of background. I've got, you know, a wing of my family from Atlantic Canada, from Nova Scotia. So I've seen how your furnace oil tank is filled up. Now, out west here, I'm old enough to remember when a lot of people used to heat with oil. But then they had the big push in the late 80s, early 90s to switch to the clean burning blue flame. So most of us are on natural gas now for our furnaces.

So to see Trudeau actually buckle to his Atlantic caucus within the Liberal Party now is fascinating. And I'll tell you why it's happening now. Two things. One, as of July 1st, folks in Atlantic Canada suddenly started paying the federal carbon tax.

A lot of people don't know this, but up until July 1st, they had a special deal where they didn't pay it. All of a sudden, boom, their gasoline goes up by about 14 or 16 cents a liter. Their diesel leaps up by 17 or 19 cents a liter overnight. So that got people really rattled, Mike. And now, you know, it was October, November. People are getting the trucks to back up into their backyards to fill those tanks. And they're looking at those bills.

Yeah, I'm really glad you've made that point because, you know, depending where you are, that's where you're focusing on whatever impact of any tax. So in British Columbia, you know, we don't even get a rebate out here. That's still one of the things I wish people would understand. Originally, the carbon tax, and I always say I'm tired of explaining this, 2008, the carbon tax by legislation was revenue neutral.

So anything they collected, they had to compensate with tax reductions. The next liberal government came in, they partially reduced that. They talked about tax breaks that they already were giving, like film tax credits were included in that calculation. So they started the ball rolling and then the NDP comes in and just says, no, we're not doing any of that. And it's, it's billions of dollars we're talking here. But as you say, then cross over to Atlantic Canada and they weren't paying anything. And all of a sudden,

Here we go. And that's just this year. I mean, the carbon tax, what is it? In two years, it's going to be $150 or something? Yes. The next rise it raises are coming right now. Yeah. So that certainly had an impact. The change was not incremental for them. It was a shock.

Yeah, I anecdotally, and this is the truth. I have a family member out there who's in Nova Scotia. You know, one of those funny things with family where they don't know what you do. She texts me, Mike, in July saying, have you heard about this carbon tax thing? Yeah.

This is really expensive. Why are they charging me this? And this was just on filling up her vehicle. This wasn't even touching home heating. And so then this is where we get into the really serious brass tacks. So Trudeau blinks, realizes that he's going down by the nose, okay, in Atlantic Canada. Now the rest of us, most of us use natural gas. All across the West, most of us use natural gas. Folks in British Columbia, even the majority there use natural gas, especially if you're up north.

What's key here, and I find fascinating, Mike, is that last I checked, there's an awful lot of Liberal seats in Ontario.

And they use natural gas too. And so what Trudeau has said is this tiny sprinkling, 3% of Canadians, 3% in Atlantic Canada, they get to save $300 this year on home heating. The rest of us, no soup for you. Yeah. And of course, that again challenges their claim for the number of years that it actually puts more money in your pocket. Well, clearly it doesn't.

uh the other thing i sorry i'm just going to digress for one sec i hear a lot of people saying oh it have it's not having a big inflationary effect and i say first of all you got to understand people care what they pay they don't care the comparison you know from two years ago you know so that's what inflation measures it's a rate of growth of price increases no this is just i went and i filled up my tank and i'm paying a lot more or i'm doing this and i'm paying more so uh

it's sort of a red herring when they start talking regarding inflation, because if they do the big rise and let's say they let it, they didn't rise for the next year. Well, it would be zero rate of increase. Right. And I'm still paying more than I can afford. So the point is, is I'm just fascinated because I say this has, uh,

business implications, obviously personal financial implications. And I think it's going to be political implications because as you said, who was it? It was Goody. Remind me of the woman who, it's a Goody Hutchings. I think he made the pronouncement earlier this week, an MP. I'm sure she's a fine one, but saying, Hey, if you want these kinds of breaks, you better vote liberal. Well, okay. That's outrageous. I felt she just didn't know what she was saying, but how about this?

There's lots of liberals elected throughout the country that aren't going to get a break. So why aren't they fighting for us? I think that's going to be uncomfortable. The liberal gets up at a campaign meeting or, you know, that kind of thing. And you go, well, why didn't you? You know, you're supposed to represent us, not your party. You're supposed to represent us. And of course, they won't be doing that. So I think that's another sort of beachhead that they're going to have trouble dealing with.

Yeah, for sure. And even taking it to the macro level, if you take a look at, you know, any political party leader or a prime minister, when they get elected, one of the first things out of their mouths after they thank their opponent is, even if you didn't vote for me, I will govern on behalf of all of you, because that is how our Westminster system of governance works.

You cannot just say, oh, well, maybe you should have more Liberal MPs and then you'll be able to get a break on your home heating, which is exactly what the Minister of Rural Development said with her mouth out loud. So that was just a train wreck. But it's interesting because it's...

It's shown exactly what they're thinking and what they're saying. What we found interesting, or many things interesting, one of them, though, is that the environment minister, Stephen Guilbeault, the one who said, no carve-outs for anyone, we can't break the shield wall, has been nowhere to be found on this.

From what I could see, he was not at that announcement when Trudeau made the announcement about the break on home heating. The only people that were there were those longtime members of parliament, most of them from the Atlantic Liberal Caucus, all grinning because they got a big win. And they only started fighting on it in August after the carbon tax kicked in in their regions. Yeah, as I say, it's absolutely going to be fascinating. Most analysts I'm reading, or virtually every analyst, is thinking this was a real political mistake by

But again, it contradicts so much of what we've been told. And that's a hot issue because the conservatives have made this an issue. So it already was supercharged politically. I just don't know where they run with the tape questions. Where do you go with, I thought you were committed to climate. Where do you go with, I thought it was putting more money in our pockets. And obviously, as you say, it's a direct impact to individuals' cost of living at a time when...

We know from the polls that 50 to 60% of Canadians are having a really tough time. And that's before about another half of the mortgages have to get renewed, you know, at much higher rates. So this is a tough one.

Exactly. I think just politically speaking, taking off my CTF hat a little bit here, politically speaking, I think he's really painted himself into a corner here. And I think that's why he wasn't at question period on Wednesday. So for the longest time, the Liberal government were trying to fashion Wednesdays after the way it is over in the UK, where the Prime Minister's always there. And it's basically a leader's round between the opposition leader and the

the prime minister for the entire hour of question period. That was supposed to be on Wednesdays because that's when most people are there. They're not traveling back to the writings. And that's after their Wednesday caucus meeting. Well, they had their Wednesday caucus meeting, which means each party gets together, closed door phones down and talks or yells, but he didn't show up to QP.

So there's a lot going on in Ottawa, and I think there's blood in the water on this issue. And now you're starting to see some older party stalwarts writing op-eds saying things like, you know what, time for some serious reflection here. But when it comes to the taxes and the Taxpayers Federation, we think it's really important to drive home how much this is costing people.

And to have the prime minister admit out loud that this is unaffordable for people to be paying the carbon tax on home heating, that's a huge win because he blinked. And now if fair is fair...

If he really wants to govern on behalf of all Canadians, he's got premiers of provinces and in some cases, even their NDP opposition parties, all singing from the same hymn book here saying, whoa, scrap the tax on all home heating. So furnace oil, natural gas and propane. Yeah.

Yeah, and as I say, there's no rationale why that's not happening. Chris, I know you're going to have a busy time with this at the taxpayer.com, Canadian Taxpayers Federation. And again, I love the work you guys do. I was thinking about this the other day, that seriously, that people should look at the page, donate to the page because you need advocates. And there's only about

three sources I can think of for that, you know, with the taxpayers being in this fight about our cost of living. That's really what it's about. And it's tough. As I say, I'm always frustrated when we don't appreciate there's people living at different income levels and that,

problematic part has continued to grow to about 60% of Canadians are struggling right now. That worries me. Mike, it means a lot to us. Very quickly, folks, if you want to get in on this, politicians don't act unless they're pushed. Email your MP now. Like now they're super sensitive about this topic.

tell them scrap it for everybody's home heating because over the next three years, this is going to cost you around $1,100 extra just in the carbon tax on home heating. Thanks, Mike. That's a great point. Chris Hibbs, Director of the Alberta Canadian Taxpayer Federation. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, Mike.