Dani Austin on Losing Her Hair, Getting Pregnant by Surprise & Starting a $40M/yr Company with Her Husband
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I can't leave the house. I'm so embarrassed. Like, I didn't even feel like feminine with him. Jordan was like, I don't understand why this is a big deal. The Kardashians wear wigs. Why can't you wear a wig? You're on Forbes 30 under 30. Outside looking in, this couple has this extremely successful business. Their marriage looks good. This is perfection. Right. Were you the happiest you ever were in that moment? The guy that was cleaning our room, he opened up our

closet saw the wig hanging there rented out of her room like he thought it was a dead body after how much pain you went through I was like I can't ask you to do that I was like it's on me I have to be mentally strong I have to just focus and make sure that I don't oh that's really sweet of you except for we did accidentally get pregnant the second time so I don't know how

- How sweet it is. - Are you in the Illuminati? - I can't tell you. - We sat down with Dani Austin, who started wearing wigs in her twenties after experiencing rapid hair loss. She documented her journey on Instagram and in 2021 started Divi, a haircare brand that made over $40 million in just the first year. That same year, her and her husband, Jordan, got pregnant by surprise and just like us, became parents to two under two. We flew all the way to Dallas, Texas for this interview, so if you could please consider subscribing, that would really mean a lot.

I kind of wanted to open up with a juicy question. Is that okay? Yes. No, no, no. Did you take your husband's last name? No, she is a feminist through and through. No, I did not. I did not. Don't do that to me. I'm sure these guys have actually done that though. Yeah, for sure. Oh, it's probably like a very like modern day thing, but no, I didn't. No way. But I have something even juicier to tell you. Wait, what? Let me tell you this. Wait, what?

So I actually was a Ramirez before. So my family are all Ramirez's. We are not related. We have checked. It's like the name Smith. Okay. So my mom is Anna Marie Ramirez. All my cousins, all are Ramirez's. When Jordan Facebook messaged me when we first met Jordan Ramirez, I thought he was one of my family members. Okay.

I thought he was a distant cousin. And I was like... And to be fair, like, all of my family, they're all Hispanic. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And so when I go to San Antonio, they're always like, oh, my gosh, my little white kid. You know, and they pinch my cheeks like my abuela. She's always like, oh, my gosh. So I thought, another one like me in the family that I can relate to. And so...

because he didn't look Hispanic either. Yeah. I always got made fun of growing up because like my last name's Ramirez, but like all the Hispanic kids at our school would just like make fun of me. You don't go here. They'd be like Jordan Ramirez and I'd be like here and they'd be like, they just like hated me. So I did not

I will say, I also started my YouTube channel as Danny Austin like so long ago before we met. And like the LLC and all the things were already Danny Austin. It was like so much work to change it. And I'm not gonna lie, like I'm obsessed with the last name Austin. Like it's such a good last name. It's strong. But I was like, you know, I'm already kind of a Ramirez at heart. I don't really need to change it. But on your... Our kids are Ramirez's. And on your Instagram, you're Danny Austin Ramirez now, aren't you? No. I'm not. No, you are. Okay, it's...

Yes, in my bio, but not my actual name. I would never change it. Danny Austin is a strong name. It's pretty cool. Okay, I have another curveball. My real name is not Danny. My real name is Keely.

I knew them. Keeley, Danielle, or Meredith. I mean, sorry, Keeley, Danielle, Austin. So you have your middle name. I forgot about that. I go with my middle name. It's a nickname of my middle name. Which Keeley's a really strong name. Keeley, I really like that. I think you should bring that back when you get off the internet. I was named after Pierce Brosnan's wife, Keeley Shea Smith. She used to do the news and my mom was obsessed with her. Pierce Brosnan was James Bond, right? Yeah.

Yeah, they weren't alive. And so anyway, I was named after his wife, Keely Chase Smith. Wow, you have so many curveballs. Also, can we talk for a second about how Dani wore the colors of y'all's podcast for this episode? It was unplanned. Can we just give a round of applause? That's how much she supported this podcast episode. Wait, did you actually do that not on purpose? No, it was just funny. No, it was on purpose, baby.

That's wonderful. That's the first time she's ever worn that. Did you also get made fun of for being like the only white looking kid? No, because I speak Spanish. So I felt like I could help, like I held my own. And another fun fact, like all my Hispanic cousins don't speak Spanish because when they came over, like when they moved to San Antonio, they really wanted to like immerse in like the American culture. So a lot of my aunts and uncles, she's just like, she's like this girl.

It was not a reaction to you. But no, like a lot of my aunts and uncles didn't teach their kids Spanish. But my mom was like the only one that was like very adamant about it. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So my, and my grandpa like moved, during the Great Depression, he moved from basically Mexico to an all German community in Illinois. Wow.

small German community in Illinois. It was, since it was all German, it was like very racist and like they didn't want him in there. And then there was one family, the Dierks family, which is my grandma who brought my grandfather in and,

it just like the language never passed down to his kids because all my dad and his brothers got bullied for being Ramirez in Illinois. Yeah. I'm actually really passionate too about our kids learning Spanish. Like, cause I really liked that side of my family. I really value it.

And so that was something that I was really hoping. So our kids are both in like a Spanish immersion program here. So basically in the family, I will be the only one who doesn't speak Spanish. How do you feel about her not taking your last name? Was that ever a conversation that you guys had? Um,

I think I just like, I think it was a conversation, but I, I don't really take offense to it. Like, I think it was a lot of paperwork and I, that's kind of how I saw it. Um, you know, I knew that there was never a, Oh, you don't appreciate that. Or you don't respect me as like the provider. It was just never that it was like, Oh, you have this whole internet thing. And I wasn't a part of that. And so it's like, yeah, just keep it as that. Like, that's what people know you as. And so I just don't think it was like that deep. I identify as a Ramirez at heart. Yeah.

Yeah. Would you ever go by Keely Ramirez? So, yeah, there you go. If things go really bad. That's a good one. You'll never find me again. It's like,

She comes back under Keely. So it's funny. When I went to college, I was like, I'm going to go by Keely because like, you know, it's cool. I want to change my name. So I introduced myself to all of the guys that I met as Keely. So the only guys that like the only people that know me as Keely are like guys that I barely know that I met my freshman year of college. Like I'll still like I'll see them out and about in Dallas. I'll be like, oh, Keely. And I'm like, yeah, that means I really don't know him. Yeah. Yeah.

- Wait, how did y'all, you met, you said Facebook? - Yeah, so I was like running the marketing for this tech company at the time. And they gave me a budget to shoot this commercial, which I don't know why they did that, 'cause I was like 21 or 22.

And I hadn't known about Dani because she was creating YouTube videos like very early on. The influencer thing was not around. And she did a book review over this book called The Meaning of Marriage by Tim Keller. So he's like a New York pastor. I think he passed away. But I saw that video and I was like, this girl is cute. And she like loves Jesus. And she like is like understands the meaning of marriage like very early on in college. And I was like, oh, I want to meet her.

So I had a video shoot that planned with a bunch of UT football players and I was like, hey, do you wanna be our actress for the day? There'll be UT football players there. And she came and at the time I had a six week old mini golden retriever puppy. And so I brought my puppy onto the set

I was kind of the boss on the set and I met Danny and it was great. Well, let me tell you. Perfect setup. There were also no UT football players. No, there were. There were. There were not any there. A different call time. And that's what I was told.

Because that's why I was going. And also, I was doing YouTube at the time. And, you know, this was like, this was back in the day when you couldn't even find like a videographer. Like people weren't doing that. And he told me that I could have all the footage and like use it on my YouTube channel. And they were filming with like a red camera, like this really nice camera. And so I was like, okay, if I can get the footage for free, like I'll show up.

And so anyway, showed up, fell in love with his dog, Hazel. The other kind of like funny, quick part of the story is that the startup I was working for was an app back in like 2014 when apps were cool. And what we were doing was like we were aggregating all the transportation options in a city into one app. So everyone in the company sold their cars. And the whole concept was like, we need to be able to get around Austin, Texas with just this app. So like bike share, rental car services, et cetera.

And so on our first date, we were supposed to go to San Antonio, which is also a bold move. That's like a two hour drive. It's like, I don't know her. We're going to talk for two hours. And I pick her up in this Audi. And so she like, like all the girls I'm living with, like five girls and I'm going on date. They're all helping me get ready. And he rolls up and we all peek through our heads through the window. And this is like brand new, shiny Audi. I'm like,

I hit the jackpot. Like, yes. And so I'm so excited. We had this amazing date. He's also downplaying it. He was the chief marketing officer for this tech company. And at this party, it was a work party that he took me to. And all these grown men that worked underneath him were coming up to me with their wives being like, Danny,

Jordan single-handedly saved this company. Like we had, we were going to, you know, sell our homes. I didn't plan this. It was unplanned, if you will. And he literally like without him, like we, you know, we would have to move. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like this guy is like, not only that, but he's an amazing person. He's also a couple of years, like I'm still in college. He's a couple of years graduated, uh,

This event goes so well with him. - In my head I'm like, this is going amazing and I didn't plan any of this. - You just sound like the CEO of this like a team. - They are doing me a huge solid on this date. - So then we're leaving the date and it's at this hotel and the lobby of this hotel has this really big grand piano and there's a do not play, do not touch sign. And Jordan's like, we're heading out to the car, I'm like, this date's already amazing. He's like, hold on a second. And he goes over and he throws the sign off.

And he's like, like, like he starts playing the piano. Gosh, this guy is successful. A little bit older. And he plays. And he's a bad boy. And he's a bad boy. Let me tell you how I was a total fraud or genius. You can decide. I knew one song on the piano and it was a really hard song, but I only know one. And I didn't clarify to Danny. I only know this one song, but I just sit down and I play and she's like, he's like Beethoven. Oh my gosh. I'm like,

If she asked me to play another song, I would have nothing. And so I was just like, okay, that's the song. I'll walk away. And the other funny part about it is that Audi that I picked her up in was through a service called Zipcar, which is owned by Hertz. And it was like through my app. And so on our second date, when I go pick her up, I pick her up in this thing called Car2Go that's in major cities. And it's like the little mini clown cars. And there were often times on our date where I had to be like, hey, you have a car. Could you pick me up?

And it was all because none of us had cars. So I didn't find out he didn't own a car for like months. Like I had no idea. I was like, hey, should we bike to this place? Yeah, I just thought he would. Because he always had like some excuse. Like, yeah, I'm just going to, this was closer. Like car to go or whatever. Zip car. Yeah.

And so, yeah. But, you know. It worked out. I wasn't in it for those things anyway. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's sweet. Yeah. It's well set up. That's hilarious. How long did it take you to open up about your hair loss? Because that's how I first heard about you. Yeah. Abby was like, there's this girl on Instagram and she's like, it's so sad. Like, she's losing her hair. And it's just, I don't know.

I really feel for her. That's what I first heard about you. So did that, was that happening before you guys met or was that like once you were a mom? So that started happening when I started losing my hair in college, mainly from stress because I was doing YouTube, but I was also trying to apply to physical therapy school, which you have to have like a pretty good GPA. Um, I had some really, like I was in these science classes that I was just not smart enough for. Um,

And I'm also pretty much like a full-time YouTuber at this point. This was the only years of my life that I had a manager too, so I had a lot of content I had to account for. And so I was really stressed, started pulling my hair, ended up getting hair extensions to cover it up, which made it worse, would bleach the crap out of my hair to make it worse. So through all of our dating, I'm basically just covering up my hair loss with extensions and stuff.

But then we get married and I can't even wear extensions because it's so bad. And so there's one morning like I wake up with Jordan. I'm like, I can't leave the house. Like I'm so embarrassed. Like I didn't even feel like feminine with him. Like I just felt like, I don't know. And so Jordan was like,

I don't understand why this is a big deal. Like the Kardashians wear wigs. Why can't you wear a wig? And I'm like, babe, because we live in Dallas, Texas. Like, where am I going to get a wig from? And there just weren't a lot of people like in my circles wearing wigs, you know? So he flew me to, well, actually the first time that we went and shopped for a wig, he put in like in his GPS, like wig.

We went to like a costume store where all the wigs are like plastic, like $10. Neon green. Neon green. I walk in. I'm like so defeated. I'm like this is just not it. So we ended up flying. I don't know if you all know who Jeffree Star is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And you know, it's funny, like I'm not even like a huge Jeffree Star fan, but like when I thought of wigs, I would just think of him. And so I started watching like his YouTube videos. And the first video that I saw was him going to a wig shop and I saw the logo on the outside.

And so I just Googled it and Jordan flew me to LA and we got my first wig. We named her Kim. And I wore that. We named her Kim after Kim Kardashian. That's so funny. She's great. That's not celebrity crush. Kim Kardashian? Yeah, mine too. Oh my gosh. And so, that's kind of yours too. Abby's is Michael B. Jordan. We,

- Why did you say this to him? - It's funny because you guys both just described very different people to one another. I'm like, are you sure you guys love each other?

That is very different. That is funny. Yeah, so I started with, you know, I actually wore that wig for a month and didn't tell anyone besides Jordan. We actually went on a trip with my family and the goal was like, hey, let's see if they say anything. And they were like, Dan, did you get a haircut? You know, like they didn't know. Nowadays you can get like such real ones. Yeah. So I was still posting like every day online and no one knew. Yeah.

But I knew that I, like, at some point wanted to share with my audience. So a month later, I did and was really scared because this was also the era online where, like, I don't know if you remember, like, everyone was taking, like, perfect photos. It was, like, the era of, like, the coffee with the latte and the hair and everything. And so my next photo, I was, like, took my wig off, was, like, bald and was just kind of, like...

I don't know, was transparent about it. And a lot of, it was crazy. I feel like I discovered this like hidden epidemic of women also going through hair loss. Cause I think like men were somewhat talking about it. Not that it's any easier for men, but there was like men talked about it more than females. I feel like.

And so for that year, I focused on growing my hair back and kind of took people through my wig journey. And so I ended up having a lot of fun with it actually. - Was that pretty scary though? - Yeah, I mean, I'm also not that good at hair. So sometimes I put my wig on and I leave the house and it's totally crooked and I'm like, I need help.

But yeah, it was scary because it just... Whenever you're so insecure about something and then not everybody else knows that you're insecure, it just highlights it so much more. But I do feel like that gave me a lot of opportunity to find heart in my content and find heart in what I was doing because then I would...

I would meet people that were like, were wearing wigs out in public too. And I felt so connected to them. And I'm like, oh my gosh, it's not that bad. Like we all have each other. And so it was actually really special. I also loved it. I mean, like every day she'd walk out and I'd be like, who do we get today? Cause like she had this, she had this, uh, bangs like wig that we named Heidi. And, uh, dude, I tried to get Heidi to come back.

For years. I'm like Heidi doesn't live here anymore. Like she tried to get rid of her wigs and I was like let's keep Heidi just in case. Heidi has bangs. He likes the bangs. I know how you feel though because Abby when she chopped off her hair like drastic she took off like what 10 inches or something. Yeah I'm one of those people that like I don't really get haircuts often but when I go I'm gonna chop it like a foot. And I was like it's like it was like an alter ego like a new version of herself. I feel like I'm cheating on my wife and I like it. I'm like

I'm like, you're really hot. I've never seen this side of you. This kind of makes me think back to the question you guys asked us on our podcast. What is it? Or on your podcast. Ask it. I'll go there. Role play with the wigs? No, listen. We just went to Cabo for Valentine's Day. We just went to Cabo for Valentine's Day. And I swear, I was like, babe, will you bring Heidi?

She didn't to be clear. She didn't but I was like no the reason I don't travel with my wigs anymore is I went on a cruise And I have a wig hanger so like cuz you don't want to just like lay your way these wings are expensive They're like really nice. How much we talking? Oh like upwards over $1,000. Yeah. Oh frick. Oh, yeah $10,000 yeah, what's the most expensive one you've ever bought I

Okay, so probably the most expensive one I ever bought was like $1,200. That was probably my first one. But honestly, so I started sharing it. It was John Renaud and then there was a Folia one and I started sharing them so much that their sales like skyrocketed and then they just started sending me all these wigs. I was like on a wig membership. So you just get hair in the mail. I would just get hair all

But then it was also kind of fun because I could do these like wig try on and help people like all over the country that needed different colors or styles and stuff. And so anyway, the reason I don't travel with them anymore is because I went on a cruise and there was a walking into our room and the guy that was like cleaning our room sprinted out of our room, like was literally thought that he had seen like a dead body. He opened up our,

our closet and saw the wig hanging there and thought it was a dead body he thought it was a person like she would also have this like like man like you know where the clothes hang oh so it looks like a head oh gosh it was like kind of disturbing and these wigs are like real human hair too oh really so like but they do have pretty good synthetic ones these days but um yeah so they can be pretty freaky

Dang. How did that hair loss affect you, Jordan? Because I'm sure, you know, you're going through this together as a couple and you just, you want your wife to be happy and feel confident. What was that like from your experience? Yeah, I mean, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but when, the way I remember it is like, you know, you had this perception of yourself that I just didn't have, right? Like, I mean, I know it was a very deeply personal thing and I think that that's why I was able to have an attitude of like, let's just go get a wig, you know, because like it,

it never really affected how I saw you. Now, as you were going through the journey, I think that like the natural desire for any husband is to be like, I want to fix this problem. Right. And this was something that was so deep, like in your life,

femininity and all of that that like I couldn't solve the emotional side. Yeah. You know, and we were also newly married. So I think that like mature husbands like start to realize like, okay, I can't fix all my wife's problems, but I was not that yet. And so I was like, let's just go. We'll fix it. We'll patch it. Why do you still sad? You know? And so the emotional side I think was hard because it was just something I couldn't control. But the wigs, um,

you know, just seemed like a pretty genius natural solution. And I, I, it started an era of our lives that was just really wild for so many reasons. One is because we ended up falling in love, like we said, with this like wig era, it was like fun for our marriage. It was like fun to go out. It was fun to talk about who's coming out tonight. And then I think that what's cool that I'll let Danny talk about is like something that

And I feel like God usually does this where it's like something that was your greatest affliction ended up being just like something that ended up creating so much purpose in our lives. This whole time we're like, oh my gosh, we're going to have to get off the internet or Danny's feeling like this. How am I going to show up? It's so embarrassing. And then when she was able to kind of be vulnerable and be honest about it, it acquired this whole other audience of like me too. And so now...

it's like we're not just posting this like silly content, you know, which was also fun and we love to do, but it was like there was a whole new another meaning to what we did for a while, you know, in that space. And so, yeah. Thank you so much to Curology for sponsoring today's episode. When I was in college, I had pretty bad acne and I was very insecure about it. And then one of my friends told me about Curology, which if you haven't heard of them, they make personalized prescription skincare products. Curology makes it super easy to

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her postpartum journey and dude the amount of people that have come up to abby being like thank you for being open about how hard that was postpartum because i know exactly what that feels like and you sharing how you felt helped me through that yeah exactly and it's so cool how like something like we're like the most shameful about or like as soon as you talk about it

like it loses so much of its like grip on you yeah that is so true it felt freeing like i felt like i had this secret that i was like trying to hide all the time and then i shared it with everyone i'm like now they know everything like i don't have to hide anything now i can have fun with it and now we can all have fun with it and not take it so serious like why are we taking right everything so seriously and then you start to think too when you're like holding that in yourself you're like i'm the only person that is like struggling with this and

then like you said, when so many other women are like, no, like me too, I'm struggling with this. Then I don't know. It's like, yeah, we've seen that like multiple times in our marriage too, where it's like things like an affliction that we're going through, whether it's postpartum or wigs or hair loss or whatever, you know, that we just so don't understand in that moment. There's just like this redemption on the other side of it, but pushing through sometimes is so hard, but we've, we've just seen this like weird cycle over and over again where it's like,

go through affliction, deep, not understanding, be faithful through it. And then it's like the redemption is like, there's such a reward on the other side of it. I actually have a really funny story about that too. Um, when I started sharing my way, I didn't even tell any of my friends to be honest. And, um, I had one really good friend in Dallas that I was like, you know what? I'm going to tell her what's going on because like, I feel like I should, this is before I told anyone on the internet and I had just gotten my first wig and

And so I went over to her house and explained everything to her. And she's like, she's still one of my best friends today. She's like, Dani, I've worn wigs since I was three. Like, I was like, I have full on alopecia. And I'm like, what? Like, we've been friends for like years. And I had no idea that she wore wigs.

- No way. - Wild, and she's still like one of my best friends. And so I thought that I was like bringing something so embarrassing about myself to her, but she was like, no, Dani, like it's normal. She's the one that introduced me to like the whole like hair loss community online, helped me shop for wigs, what are the good brands? Like it was just wild. And so there really are, there really were so many people going through something similar. - That's beautiful. - So how did you then end up starting a hair company?

Because like, are you out here? Oh, I'm losing my hair. I'm going to, are you in your garage? Like doing chemistry? I feel like people like don't understand. Like I actually was like, because I, first of all, there was a lot of medications that you could take for hair loss, but I also was trying to start a family. So like, you can't really be on a lot of those medications if, if you are.

um and so and sorry i wasn't trying to start a video but we were thinking about it and i just knew a lot of that stuff wasn't good for you long term and so this is actually funny um one of the biggest trends i had heard online about hair loss or hair growth was using monistat on your scalp i don't even know if y'all know that's yeast infection yeast infection remember when i was pregnant i was in disney and i had yeah yeah so so a lot of people were

using monistat on their scalp a yeast infection cream to grow their hair back oh gnarly and so i'm like why is that working so i started doing more research about it well it has antifungal properties in it that um help kill all of the build-up like you know how like everybody like you don't wash your hair anymore these days because it's bad for your hair you wear so much dry shampoo you have all these products these days well a lot of time those those products are sitting on your scalp like irritating causing dandruff psoriasis clogging the follicle like literally like you

hair I'm keen wash your hair yeah and so um so I was like man how can I do that but like make it something clean that I can use long term because even if you do monistat on your scalp you're not supposed to do that like for over a month and so I started trying to find like not all natural like I still wanted science behind it but like I wanted a clean version of that and there was literally nothing so at first yes I'm like ordering things online I'm like in the test tube like I'm

You know, and then we finally, I told Jordan, I'm like, I want to meet with a chemist because there's some things that I want, like amino acids and peptides, like really good peptides that I don't have access to. And I would like a chemist to kind of help me formulate this. And so we came out with like a scalp serum. Really, it was just like one product that I just wanted for myself. And then I was like, okay, so many people are asking for this too. We'll just give the people what they want. And it was like wild, like crazy.

It was the craziest response. And I think the reason why people loved it so much is they started documenting their own hair growth. We literally, every single day, would get like 20 before and afters sent to us. Like once people started using it. And I was like... And I think people really like before and after pictures because they can like see like, oh my gosh, it works. And it's like... It's not like some model or like ad that we're running. Like it's like organic growth. And...

And so it grew really, really fast just from one skew. Like it was wild. And so then after that, I was like, so no, I don't have like genetically good hair. Like I literally would have never thought I would start a hair care company like that is I'm like maybe skin care. Like I have better skin than hair.

But I was like, maybe I should do this because there's not a lot of women in this space creating products for girls with hair like me. Like a lot of the products you have out there, like it's for girls that have this gorgeous, voluminous, you know, perfect hair. And I'm like, dude, you could put like anything in your hair. It's going to look good. And that's great. And like, you're so blessed in that way. But like, what about us?

us. Like the other girls where it's like, man, we put one wrong ingredient in our hair. We lose all our hair. Like, or it just, our hair is so brittle. It just breaks. And so like, somebody has got to really like be looking out for us too. And so, um, so that's what led me to start Divi. So all of our ingredients are like clean and we have a lot of integrity behind our formulas. If they say that they do something, we have like clinical dosages of like what it actually is.

says that it does, you know. And so, so no, now it's special because I feel like our audience tells me the next product they want. So like, it was the scalps here at first and they're like, we really want a hair vitamin or shampoo conditioner or we want, you know, we have like, what am I allowed to say? What am I allowed to say? You can say it. We have dry shampoo coming out. Like,

- Ooh, broken here on the Unplanned Podcast. - Exclusive. - There's your clickbait. - No, so it's special because I just listen to them and then just give them more of what they want. - That is really cool. - Really cool. - Yeah. - Really, really cool. And I remember a year ago, I'm looking at the Forbes 30 under 30. I'm so interested in who these people are 'cause it's pretty cool if you make it into the Forbes 30 under 30 list

And you were on there. And I saw this interview of you with Forbes. I was so postpartum. I hated that interview. Oh, really? Oh, my God. I felt so gross in that. And the angles they chose, I was like, really? I was like, can't you do a mama better than that? I was like right fresh out of the oven, too. Oh, that's not nice. I don't think anyone else was thinking that. Thank you. Can we just give it up? That's pretty. Forbes 30 under 30. Oh, my God.

That's incredible. I mean, you guys are a team, right? Because you're, are you the CEO of Divi? So I don't really, I mean, I'm probably like you. I don't know what I am. I'm like on a day-to-day basis. I wake up and sometimes I'm like doing stuff with our real estate stuff. And sometimes I'm helping film Instagram stories. And sometimes I'm running Divi. But I helped develop the team, you know, at Divi because it grew so fast. And we, you know, our core team,

business, if you will, was like what you guys do. It's like creating content on the internet, which as you guys know, it's a grind. It's like your job every day is to kind of like live your life and tell a really good story and provide value to an audience. And so when Divi blew up, it was really hard in the best way possible because it grew so fast that we were like, oh no, we can't do this on our own. Like when we launched Divi,

like two doors down in my unborn son's nursery was where one person who was over at Divvy was doing. And so when it went from zero to like 40 million off of one SKU in one year, we had to hire 20 people in a year. And so it was kind of a- 40 million in revenue in the first year? In the first year off that one SKU. One person.

Which is, which is just unheard of. And it was way beyond, this is what's so crazy. It was like way beyond my audience. Like, you know, like that's what's so wild for me to comprehend. It's like, I would go to the nail salon and someone's wearing a Divi sweatshirt. I'm like, oh my gosh, hi. And they're like, who are you? They're like,

I'm like, whoa, that's wild. You know, like it's just mind blowing. Yeah. But I feel like the, the, the yin and the yang of Danny and I typically is like, I feel like Danny's kind of like the creative, the, she has the genius ideas. Um,

And I'll kind of be the yang to her where it's like, okay, I can help you find the people that can scalably implement our deal so we don't sink our family trying to accomplish this, right? That's awesome. Our personalities is like she's like, I'll show up to a meeting on time. She'll show up to a meeting late with no pants on. I've been better about it.

Thank you very much. It's just the true like creative operator dynamic. And I think that like we've been doing this together for six years. She's been doing it by herself for 12 years. And I feel like that's what we've, sorry. I feel like that's the dynamic we've like learned to lean into. And I feel like it's created like a really healthy team and respect within us is like, okay, like I know how to capture the genius in a bottle and make ideas happen. I'm so curious. So you do 40 million in revenue, company blows up.

you're on Forbes 30 under 30, like everything outside looking in is like, this is perfection. This couple has this extremely successful business. You know, their marriage looks good. Like looking from the outside in, like it looks like you guys have it all. Were you the happiest you ever were in that moment or in that, in that time? I mean, I think like the happiest I've ever been is probably, I talked about this on our podcast earlier, um,

probably when we had our kids, I feel like. Because I do feel like, because I've had so much time online, I'm very, I understand that these things are very fleeting and they go. Even when the Forbes thing came out, I am so thankful. And the fact that they noticed me at all, I still can't get over it. But I'm also very aware that it's a very worldly thing and it's not gonna actually bring me fulfillment in the inside, you know? Yeah.

And so I feel like once we had our kids, that really helped me balance everything and put everything into perspective. And so that's probably the happiest I've ever been. Not to say it wasn't hard. It's really challenging still. But we were talking about this earlier. I'm like, man, I wish I would have done that sooner. That's my true accomplishment. And sometimes I even feel like...

We made the list, the Forbes list again for a second year. And then we made the fashion Forbes list, which is so funny. Cause I'm like, really? But I think I, I talk about fashion, but it's very like, like relatable. Like I'm sure Walmart finds, you know? So I thought that was really cool to be noticed in that way. But that same week I took like maybe three days off of work and stayed home and I

cooked every day and cleaned and cleaned my own kitchen and took care of my babies and napped during their nap time. And I was like this, I feel 10 times more successful like doing this than I did making the Forbes list. Wow. Like I just felt so proud of myself. And like, I love, I love being a mom. I love being able to like balance everything, but like that's my top priority. And like being a wife too, like that is really what fills me up.

But you kind of have to learn that the hard way sometimes. Yeah, and I think that the past two years, regardless of what it looked like on the outside, I think was the process of learning that the hard way, right? So it's like we did two under two just like you guys, but when you have a company, it almost counts as like three kids. So it almost feels like we had five kids under two.

And so, you know, I think that that was really challenging. And then honestly, just like everything the past two years was thrown all at once where it's like, you know, growing a company, building a team, having kids, like, you know, managing our extended family dynamics. Like it was just all moving. It was all so fast.

all at once that I think it really coming out of that two-year sprint has taught us like what is important and like how to balance. Like you guys talked about like harmony and balance and like what that looks like for y'all's family and trying to find that. And I think we're probably closer than ever to finding that. And I think in that piece, we're happy. But I look back on the past two years and I kind of blacked out. Like me personally. I didn't see him the first year. When we first launched Chevy that first year, he was because he was...

busy building the team and like hiring everyone and like he was absent

absent. Yeah. And I was, I was grumpy and burnout and you know, cause I just felt like I couldn't be all things. Like I couldn't be a good husband and a dad and you know, this to the 20 people over at Divvy and to Danny's team and like everything. And so, um, I think that we're coming into this era where it's the reason I don't know where, what I am is because we're trying to hire so many smarter people around us to be able to take things off our plate so that we can do what we feel like is our highest and best calling, which is like,

being spouses to each other and being parents to our kids and everything else has to fit in that. Yeah.

but that's hard. That was a hard journey to figure out. I'm curious. Do you look back in regret, not spending more time with your kids then? Or are you thankful that you went through the grind era early? That way now you have, you know, the, the freedom financially to spend more time with your kids. Now. I am so glad that I did it when I did it because like, I mean something changed. Like when our daughter, uh, turned like, uh,

two, right? So when our daughter was two, our son was, you know, not talking or walking yet. When our daughter turned two, I started to realize, oh my gosh, you are starting to understand what's going on. Yeah. And you definitely know who I am and you know the role I play in your life. And so I'm kind of glad that

we were able to build the infrastructure before that because now I understand the importance of it and can kind of prioritize that above all else. I don't know. Like, do you feel like you could, no, I'm interviewing you. Do you feel like you could have, you could do what you did back then with Divi growing Divi now that our kids are older because Stella was like not even one years old whenever we were growing Divi.

Yeah. I think about that sometimes. I'm like, I don't think we could have. I, so if I could have done Divi differently, I would have probably just like hired. I know it sounds like we scaled really fast, but hiring sort of people who have done it before, I think is so important. Like we hired a lot of really gifted people that we saw potential in, but a lot of them, it was their first rodeo. Right. And so like we're training them and teaching them. And so that's a lot of like

pouring out, right? It's a lot of emotion. If you want to build the culture right, which is what Danny and I really wanted to do, which was like, okay, how do we take our heart for people and a team and how do we extend that? So we hired a really good people manager and we were like, hey, she had kind of like a psychology background, a little bit of a ministry background. And we were like, hey, we want you to love this team because we won't have the bandwidth to be able to do that. And so

I would say that I would do it a little bit differently. It could be done. True, true, true. And I kind of like, I don't know if y'all are like this, but I was sort of stubborn for a while where it's like a lot of mentors were like, just do this. This will make your life easier. Do that. And I almost like had to fail and like burn out myself before I was like, okay, yeah, yeah. I know exactly what that's like.

Yeah, that's why I was asking you on our podcast. I was like, you're close to burnout. I see you. But it's hard. You kind of also become addicted to the chaos. When things slow down, I'm like, why are they so slow? Are we failing? Are we becoming irrelevant? What's going on? And then you just want more. And it's a toxic cycle.

I'm curious for the business to blow up like it did, what made the product so good? Cause it must've been a really great product for people to buy it like they did and for it to, you know,

get 40 million in revenue in the first year. I think that it's the first time that a product like this has been clean. Like honestly, I think that a lot of women that are using it are like postpartum, they're trying to start a family. Like there are some really harmful ingredients in some other like scalp serums, any other hair products out there. Like I said, you can use it short term, but ours is totally clean. And then we have really powerful, like our peptides are really strong amino acids. We have lots of natural ingredients.

And so, and even with our hair vitamin, oh, that's like one that I get like so passionate about because a lot of like our, the like marketing, like if you look at a label of a hair vitamin, it'll say, oh, it has this much or it has ashwagandha. Okay. But at what dosage, like, does it have enough to like meet the clinical study standards? And typically the answer is no. They just put like a little like ounce in there.

to say that they have it. And so even creating the hair vitamin, our head of product development came from Nutrafol. And so she was like really well versed in ingredients and studies and things that work.

And so it's, we also have two internal chemists that are like constantly researching. They go to like these conferences all over the country to learn about the new technologies and new ingredients out there. So a lot of like the science now is so above my like understanding. Cause it's, cause I'm not a scientist or a chemist, but my biggest passion was like hiring the best of the best team to create like really effective products. And that was like, our goal is like, I think the, the, the,

headwinds against us probably was like, you have a lot of influencers. Y'all probably know a lot who are launching brands. Right. And I think that the consumer knows like, Oh my gosh, there's so many celebrity or influencer brands coming out that, you know, you kind of know the ones that are pouring heart and soul in. And then the ones that are just like taking a white labeled product and slapping their name on it. And so we knew that those was something as personal and intimate as like hair loss. We knew that there were some headwinds against us that, um,

you know, people were going to assume it's just another influencer brands. We're like, Hey, how do we bring some of the best like researchers, scientists from across the country together to like execute on this vision? I think that that's a little bit of what we did different. And then just like Danny touched on a lot of, um,

the products that you see on shelves, it's really crazy how much of it is marketing, right? Like they are jipping you on, you know, they're saying that this, this is in the product and you're like, Oh, I know that's a good ingredient, but it's not anywhere near like gummy hair vitamins are like a bunch of bull.

There's no way that they have enough of the ingredients to actually make a difference. Like you're just, and they're so bad. It's just like this chewy, gooey stuff. That's not really, it's like has like a lot of sugar. It's not good for you. What about like biotin or collagen? Like for a while I was taking like this collagen powder. It tasted like crap. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I bought a big cup on Amazon and I was like, here's my first bite.

No, that's great. Collagen powder is great. I stopped taking it because it tasted so bad. I'm like, is this even doing anything? And then for a while I was even doing, um, what is the, the, uh, yeah, biotin pills. Yeah, that's great. Especially when they're like, uh, only biotin or something. But I think where it gets messy is like, there's some hair vitamins out there that say like we have collagen in it. Well, the only way that you're going to actually make a difference with like

collagen production is if you're taking a powder where it's like a lot of collagen they take right like it's a lot there's no way in that one little pill it has enough collagen to make to make a difference that's why we don't have collagen in our products because i don't i know we could we could say oh like we have collagen but it's not you would have to take like 10 pills to make it so i want to come out with a collagen product but i want it to be its own thing that actually works like i don't want to just put collagen in there to say it has collagen this episode

is sponsored by athena club you know i started shaving my legs in the second grade that's right you did i am i am a hairy queen at story time and i was sitting crisscross i will sauce and this little boy next to me i'm not gonna say his name because i still know him because it's small town but he was like your legs look like a bear he literally said that to me and i was mortified i come home i'm like mom i need to do something about this and she gave me my first razor and it was trash i

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Switch to the best razor in the market and show your skin you care with Athena Club. Head over to athenaclub.com to try their award-winning razor and body products and get 20% off your purchase with code UNPLANNED at checkout. You can also find Athena Club razors at your local Target store. Trust me, you won't look back. Happy shaving. Back to the episode. We had Dr. Mike on our podcast and he was telling us about how when it comes to health, you want to almost, rather than trying to like pick up pebbles off the ground, you want to pick up the pebbles

the boulder and do the thing that's going to do the most good for whatever thing you're trying to combat. So whether that's like you want to lose weight or you want to, you know, I don't know, make some healthy change in your life. What's the boulder with hair loss? Like what's the most important thing? I'm asking this for myself too because I'm like, I'm 25. My grandpa was bald and I'm like, I don't want to be bald. I'm like, get this man some Divvy. I mean, I don't know.

I like slide, pull it out of my pocket. I'm like showing the camera. I'm going to be honest with you. It's a lot of it is genetic. And so a lot of it is just taking care of like what you have. And that's why I also like, like Divi. Cause it's like getting the most of like, honestly, what God gave you.

Um, but I mean, the biggest thing for me was, was stress, like stress and cortisol will like spike your DHT levels, which also like signals your follicle to like let loose and you lose your hair. And so, um, so keeping like your cortisol levels, your stress down, that's why our hair vitamin also has KSM 66, which is like the purest form of ashwagandha actually comes from like the root extract of ashwagandha. And a lot of people actually use it for like

bodybuilding weight loss energy sleep because it has so many benefits to it but like one of the biggest things is like people that take our hair vitamins are like oh my gosh I've been sleeping so amazing or I feel less stressed out and like that's really helping like you not lose your hair too

That's good. Yeah. And I'm guessing the Divi probably helps too. Probably while you made it. Yeah. Well, the one point I would touch on too is like, I think that it's like the skinification of the scalp is what people are talking about now. So like see. We launched that before that was every term. Like no one was talking about your scalp at all.

But in Danny's spirit of saying like kind of taking care of like just like what God gave you, it's like the scalp is the environment where the hair grows. And so like detoxifying it with like the serum and like taking the hair vitamins and like cleansing it with like the shampoo and conditioner and like just really like understanding there's product buildup that happens. There's things that are happening at the follicle level too that could prevent hair growth too. And just almost like maintaining and preventing is probably a big part of it as well. Yeah, that's why we like the scalp serum for like it's like the

outside in approach and the hair vitamin is like the inside so when they when you use them together they're like that's good i've never heard that line i like it though so i guess because of that because of my genetics will i probably if i want to keep my hair as like an old like you know my my grandpa was bald so my my mom's dad i think it's like on your mom's side right i've heard it from you get the genetics from that side so it's like i probably will genetically go bald one day

Unless I do preventative measures now or I guess I could do the hair surgery, right? That people... Yeah, I've heard of that too. Yeah, yeah. I think Elon did that, right? Really? Elon, yeah. Do you look at old pictures of him? A lot of people do it. A lot of guys. It's crazy. Jeffree Star also did it. No way. He did plugs? He did... He got like a hair transplant. I saw it on YouTube. It really grossed me out. It's kind of a wild procedure. Don't you have to get it done in Turkey? Something.

Some people do because it's cheaper. Oh, okay. I was like, I thought that's where they only did it. I think in the States it's like 20 grand, but in Turkey it's like two grand. People are flying to Turkey to go. Okay, got it. Wow. But I guess, can you prevent that with taking...

Taking collagen and doing all these things taking Divi whatever like can you can you prevent that from happening or I don't think that you can like prevent Genetics from I think genetics are like too strong, but you could probably prevent like a certain percentage of it Okay, but I think like genetics are genetics like it's not really like it's the same thing whenever Like heart disease runs in your family and like yes You can do everything you can to like make it like the healthiest version of what you have, you know Matt's trying to trap you in an FTC claim

Can you say definitively that it does X, Y, Z?

I was like, yeah, Divi like saves everything. Like, no, like I think genetics are just too strong. No, what's funny is I think it's so funny when like there's a new product and people are like, it does this for you. It does this for you. Like, they're like, it basically makes your life perfect. Yeah. And that was like a biggest thing too. Like I wanted Divi so badly to be like very science driven, but also like an overall wellness brand, because I do believe that like

taking care of yourself and like helping your hair grow it a lot of it has to do with diet and like your sleep and your stress and all these things it's like a it's like a lifestyle and a wellness like thing that you have to you know conquer not just hair loss it's funny as we said this on your podcast but abby listens to your guys podcast free week and she she has always given me she always gives me like the spark notes version of like what you guys talk about that's so funny like that i'm like kind of like something so flattered are you freaked out at all

No, I'm so flattered. My mom doesn't even listen to my podcast, so I'm just like...

podcast. Abby does not listen to our podcast. I don't either. I'm sure we record. I forget everything I said. People will come up to me and be like, oh, did you? And I'm like, dude, I blacked out. I have no idea what I talked about. I do too. I'm like, people mention things to me and I'm like, did I say that somewhere? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You go ahead. Basically anything that, I don't know where you were going with that so you can hold that thought. Okay. Whenever I'm reading a book or we watch a show, we are like

He knows everything that I watch or read. And we don't watch anything separate. But sometimes on your podcast, you guys will be like, oh, you read that book? Or you watch that show? And I'm like, oh my gosh. How are they married? And they don't even know what she's doing all the time. No, we don't read the same books. And we don't even watch the same shows anymore, which really bothers me. And I try so hard to get you to watch all of my...

murder mystery documentaries. Oh, like right now she's watching Love is Blind and I'm watching The X-Files. It's so good. Wait, have you guys watched Love on the Spectrum? Oh, it's the best. It is the sweetest show. Oh my gosh, Tanner. Tanner, you're favorite. I love Tanner. I love Connor. I love Tanner more than you love Tanner. Like you don't understand. I love everyone. You follow him on TikTok?

I thought, yeah, I've been following people from the show cause they're all so sweet. I just am obsessed. And, um, yeah, my, so my cousin, we never, we don't really talk about this, but he is also on the spectrum and it just makes me so happy because he's very like self-sufficient makes me so happy. Cause I'm like, Oh my, he always talks about how he wants to get married and like, he will like wants to live on his own and everything. And it's so, it's so encouraging to see. Has he watched the show?

No, I don't think so. I'd be so curious what his take on the show was. Yeah, what his take on the show is. He's just like the sweetest. I don't know where this was going, Matt. Where was your point? No, I was going with like, you guys are like...

dish out your arguments on the podcast because Abby will be like, oh yeah, they had this thing where... We relate to a lot of things with working with your spouse. We relate to you guys because we work together. It was like, oh, Dani ended up getting her own tickets to the Dallas Stars game. Dude, that was... That's a fresh one, Matt. Let's talk about that again on this podcast. Let's talk about it. I'll tell you what happened. What's the story? I'm like, hey...

Let's go to the Stars game with our family. Oh, sorry. Yeah, what happened? Refresh my brain. You did not say this. Okay. I'm going down on this. I don't care. This is a new audience for us. I don't care if they see this. It's going down right now. Let me tell you something. It's Friday night and Jordan's like, I want to take either you to the Stars game or Stella to the Stars game. But we were not all invited as a family.

Let me tell you something. We'll take turns. Originally, Dani had communicated to me that her love language had changed. It is now quality time. And so I'm like, great. Wait, it's not

It went through a gifting phase. It went through, it's been physical touch phase. Like it's been everything. So we're on a quality time season. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to intentionally plan a date. Danny's busy throughout the day. And Danny's a historically poor planner. So I cannot ask her at seven o'clock.

"What, should we be going to the Stars game?" Because at two o'clock p.m. she stressed about seven other things. So I'm like, okay, I gently start nudging, "Let's go to the Stars game, let's go to the Stars game, let's go." We'd never gone to a Stars game before, she had never been, I was like, "I'm gonna take you to the Stars game." And so it comes around and now you continue. - Well he said, "I'll take you to the Stars game "or sell it to the Stars game." But not, and I said, "Can we all go?" And he goes, "No, that's too much, "'cause I wanted to take Stratton too."

And Stratton's like 20 months. And so he's like, no, no, no, too much. So I was like, okay, well then you and Stella go. And I was getting frustrated. I was like, fine, if we can't all go, then just you guys go. But in my head, I'm like, why can't we all go? This is so annoying that we have to break up. Let me ask you this. So pause. Do you guys feel this? Y'all's kids are really young. But I had had in my mind, okay, I was going to start trying to... My daughter's old enough to know what's going on. So I was like...

I want to try and like do one-on-one time with my son, one-on-one time with my daughter and one-on-one time with my wife because on the weekends we're all together, right? So I really wanted it to be either I will go with Stella as my one-on-one date with Stella, my daughter, or I will go with Danny one-on-one date. Yes. And I wanted to like all of us to go. And so, but he kept pressuring me, you know, and I'm still working and I'm like, okay, you know what? Like y'all just go, like it's too stressful. And so he goes with just Stella. And so I'm like, you know what?

I'm going to go with just Stratton then. Like, why not? So my perspective of this is we're sitting at the Stars game. Stella's having the time of her life. She's eating three bags of M&Ms at this point. And Dani texts me. This is all she texts me. Texts me a picture of her and Stratton at the Stars game. And I'm like...

Where are you? I was offended that he didn't want Stratton to go. So I was like, where are you guys? Doesn't text me back. Whole period goes by in the Stars game. She finally takes me back. She's like, we're over here. I'm like, I was like, there's two seats by us. Do you want to come? I was taking care of a 20 month old, so I was not able to text. But I texted you immediately back.

So we combined... We got really cheap seats because it was like last minute. So we combined our whole family at the Stars game. And I don't know what the learning lesson is here. Okay, the whole thing is... Are you guys okay? No, the whole thing is like... Like Jordan, when he plans these, he's very particular about like...

where we take our kids or like who goes or like the environment. And I'm more of like, I don't care if they throw a fit, like let's just all go together. And if we throw, if they throw a fit, that's just part of life. And like, I don't want to not go to things because we have a child. Like, and so, and sometimes, yes, it's still a fault. Like one time I tried to get into a bar with my baby and it was just, they, they carded my one year old. It was just not a good thing. But,

But yeah. We should go home. We should not be here. Yeah. So I sometimes I take to the stream. But to me, I was like a stars game is a perfect place for like the whole family to go together. So I was frustrated that his mind was so like set on like one way or the other that I was like, I'm just going to like if you don't want to take Stratton, like I'll just go with Stratton. Like I don't want to just leave him at home.

And then, um, and in my mind, guys, I'm like, yeah, you can call me rigid all you want. But I think about way more details. Like we're past the kid's bedtime. Stella maybe can handle that. Stratton might go ballistic. Like he can't really, like it felt really good. I wasn't planning on going, but to get out of the house and to like go somewhere with my baby just by myself without help, like sometimes feels really good.

Sometimes I feel like, I'm like, wow, I did this. And I just feel good about myself as a mom. And I love spending that one-on-one time with Stratton too. So it looks weird from the outside looking in, but in my mind, I was like, okay, he can have his night with Stella. I'm going to go have my night with Stratton. And that's fine. We have our one-on-ones. I don't know. What do y'all think about the situation? Why don't you guys weigh in? Because it's so relatable. We go at each other like cats and dogs. Always.

all day, every day. Yeah. Have you guys ever fought before you have to record a podcast? That is the absolute worst one. Oh my gosh, it's the worst. Yeah. I'm like, I don't even want to talk to you in private, let alone with a camera on us. And then people are like, wow, Matt seems so toxic. I'm like, you didn't hear what she said to me all the podcast. You have no idea. She's a monster. It really hurt my feelings. That is so real though. It's so relatable though because I feel like

There's so many people online that only show, because it's scary to show like, even stupid arguments like that. Like, it's scary to share because, oh, we get this all the time. They're like, I can't wait for the divorce episode. And I'm like, you guys, this is horrible. That's horrible. It's disgusting. That's love. And I'm like, if this one didn't,

It's crazy because I get, I mean, everybody online has a perfect marriage, you know? Yeah, we're all perfect. Yeah. I think it's the single people, the unmarried people that are commenting those things. Yeah. No, 100%. I respect that you guys talk about your fights though because I feel like that's vulnerable. It's kind of funny, honestly. It's like, we're like, I think if it's like a real fight, we probably won't talk about it until after the fact when she realizes I'm right. No, there's no real fight. There's no real fight.

When you what? Until after the fact when you realize I'm right. That's hilarious. I know, I'm kidding. No, but there's some pretty big fights that we're like, okay, we've been fighting. But we won't say what it is.

Yeah. And like, we'll, we'll talk about those like after we've like come to a reconciliation point and we both usually at the reconciliation point are like, Oh, here's what I did wrong. Here's what she, but the bickering fights are so funny to talk about. Cause it's like, we all go through those. It's too exhausting to act like we have it all together. Like it's just, it's too much. And so I'd rather just be like, it is what it is.

Honestly, so much of the reason that we started our podcast was two reasons. One is like we felt so... I'm sure you guys feel this too. Like we felt so confined and put into a box in these like...

30 second Instagram story clips that was supposed to depict every nuance of our life. So it's like, when we had two kids, it was like, you hate Stratton because you don't show them that. And I'm like, dude, you guys are seeing, you guys are seeing 20, what, like five minutes max of our entire day. And we are also like controlling what you see. So like, why would you think that we hate our son for that reason? So we hated the lack of nuance. And so we were like, we need a longer form of,

you know, piece of content to be able to talk about what we're going through, trying to juggle all these balls in the air. And then the second reason is like, we really just were like, you know, coming out of when you guys started on the internet, we were talking about this earlier. You guys started in a war zone of a time on the internet. Like Danny's been doing this for 11 years. We've been doing it together for six, that 2020, 2021 era was,

was an absolute war zone but that's probably all y'all know it's all you know you don't understand there were there was a golden era they were nicer before that no they were nice to us though they're like yay this young married couple and they're i know you got you got them through covid it's also like when you're new like people are like oh it's the new person let's build them up and then once you get big then it's like oh now they're big let's tear them down

But honestly, once they tear you down, they like to rebuild you again. So you just kind of have to weather the era. It's a cycle. Just let it... It's a cycle. Just let it ride away. Take the boys. But we were coming out of that era where we just felt like, you know, I think so many creators in that time felt so stifled in terms of like sharing any opinion about anything. And I'm not saying you have to go hardcore like religion or politics, but like there was no room to be like, here's kind of like my nuanced beliefs on this issue. And what we really felt was like...

the world, like America, wanted to hear more nuanced opinions. And I think that the lack of it made people feel like,

you know, you guys are all part of the Illuminati and you guys don't want to talk about this stuff. And like, there's this system and it's like, no, like we're normal humans and Americans like trying to figure out like what we believe in, how to just, at the end of the day, take care of our family. And so we felt like podcasting was like the best format for that. And so we try and be as authentic on this platform as we can. And honestly, most of the time it's like therapy for us to work out our fight in real time. I'm glad you just brought that up because I'm so curious. You guys are so open on your podcast. Yeah.

Are you, how are you feeling about like the state of our country right now? With like, we have an election. Let's go there, Matt. I know, I'm so scared. I'm like, I crack my knuckles. You know,

I'm like, I'm so glad you asked. I'm scared to go there because I know people get so heated about this stuff. But we're in an election year. How are you feeling about what's going on? Honestly, I'll be real. I work so much. I don't really know what's going on. Did you see the boards on our windows? We're ready. We're ready for the riots and everything. His stash? What do you call it? Your...

My prepper stash. You can talk about that in a second. Your preppers. I want to talk about big preppers too. He's a big prepper. Are you worried for the state of our country though? Uh,

- So I would say like, I'm actually like me personally, like I'm the most optimistic I've probably ever been. And here's why is like, I feel like what really confused me in the 2020, 2021 era was like, I just felt like we were all stuck in our homes. I feel like people's brains are broken. And also I think that this is like pretty much proven at this point. Like you only got one side of the argument. Like, I think it's like, you know, I don't want to get too controversial here, but like with the Twitter files coming out and all this stuff,

It's like it was very clear that there was one narrative that was being shown. And so what's so important, I think, for people to feel like they belong in this country is to see both sides of an argument. And so because one of the sides was stifled, it really confused me. I was like, man, am I wrong about these things? I'm just a dad like trying to navigate, you know, our how I feel about things in the economy. And I think that...

I think like as a country, we're probably in one of the harder states we've ever been. Like inflation's really high, people can't afford to buy homes. You know, people in cities are feeling like really unsafe.

But for the first time, I feel like both sides of the aisle are not seeing it as like a polarized argument that these facts exist. We're all like, hey, something's wrong here and like how can we fix it? And I feel – I don't know. Maybe I'm an idealist, but I feel like we're right on the cusp of like coming together again and like being like, hey –

across political lines, we all just wanna raise our kids, be a family, and we wanna see prosperity for our country. And I feel like we're gonna unite on something.

but that's probably like closer to November, December. I think it's probably going to get really hairy again, like May, June, July as election starts. Yeah. I feel the same way. Cause we have friends who are as Republican as you could get. And we have friends that are as Democrat as you could get. And I love it because I want different views. Do you feel like they're coming together? I don't know, but I hope we can. I want that because I think it's,

You need to consider everyone's perspective and what everybody wants. I think when you really talk about it, like everybody's on the same team. Like we want the same things. It's so interesting when you listen to like Republicans and Democrats, they'll be like, oh, I'm this way on this issue because I care about human rights. And then the other side will say, I care about this issue because of human rights. And it's like, wait a second, we're all wanting to like make human rights better. So like, why are we fighting? And so I think we're all so much more alike than we are different.

So what's wild is like, are you familiar with like the concept of like audience capture? I said this to you earlier. Ooh, what is that? So audience capture is basically like when, you know, you blow up on the internet or you become famous or something, uh, either publishing or writing, you know, journalists or whatever. And then,

You kind of grow because you have independent opinions and people are like I like that right and then what happens is when audience capture comes in you start only serving the audience that you feel like what they want to hear. Thank you to Daily Harvest for sponsoring today's episode. Not too long ago Abby was feeding our child a smoothie and I'm like where did the smoothie come from and she was like ah Matt this is a Daily Harvest smoothie so we can give it to Griffin it's healthy.

You know they're delicious because if our kid is eating it, then it's good because they don't just eat things because they're healthy. They eat things because they like them. Exactly. And they do like them. So if you don't know what daily harvest is, it really just takes the guesswork and thought and hassle away.

Getting convenient food. We are always on the go. We're busy people. We're constantly traveling and sometimes meal times can be really hard to figure out. So having a meal ready to go, ready to just pop in the microwave and be able to eat it within minutes is so convenient. No shopping, prepping, cleanup.

It takes it all out of it. But they also have amazing snacks too. Like smoothies make an amazing like midday pick me up. Yeah, especially too. Like I've realized when you go out to eat, you take a lot of time. It's not quick. Even if you're going to go like grab takeout, it's not a quick process. So having the convenience of, you know, pre-made meal fully ready to go is

It's just amazing. It saves you so much time. Takeout honestly isn't healthy usually either. And so that's what's great about Daily Harvest is that it's built on organic fruits and vegetables sent straight to your door. So you got the same convenience as takeout. Then also it's actually healthy, made with good ingredients. Daily Harvest says no to gluten, fillers, seed oils, added sugars and starches. So all you have to do is say yes to delicious, easy to prep smoothies that never leave you wondering what's really in your food. Yeah. And they taste good too.

Yeah, they have a delicious dragon fruit and lime smoothie. So good. I love that one. Take the guesswork out of eating well and try Daily Harvest. For a limited time only, go to dailyharvest.com slash unplanned to get $30 off your first box plus free shipping. That's dailyharvest.com slash unplanned for $30 off your first box and free shipping. dailyharvest.com slash unplanned.

Now, back to the episode. With the legacy media systems on both sides, like, it's just audience capture. Like, the right-wing, you know, legacy media is feeding the right-wingers what they want to hear, the left-wing. But what's so cool is right now in the middle, like, the true moderate of, like, hey, let's see the best on both sides. Yeah.

it, the internet is creating like this independent, uh, class of journalists that are covering the middle and giving us like real facts. And so I think for the first time we all are able to form new opinions beyond party lines. Um, and I think it's going to shake a lot of things up. Like I think people are going to leave the left and go to the right. And I think people are going to leave the right and go to left, but it's like, hopefully both candidates that run can realize that

The vast majority of America is like right moderate in the middle. Like we just want to... Yes. We just want to live our lives. We just want... Don't run out of toilet paper again like in COVID. Please. And that's why I prep. And please let us share. Let us share why you ran out of toilet paper. No, I started prepping when we ran out of toilet paper during COVID because I was like, this is how...

crazy things happen. But don't you think that's why they ran out of toilet paper? Because everybody was freaking out about it? Yeah, because everyone was prepping. 100%. Oh, no. No, no, no. Oh, that's a really interesting way of looking at it. But like, no. I think it was a mass hysteria. It was a hysteria. So then you hear about it, then everybody's like, oh my gosh, we have to go buy toilet paper even though we already have 10, you know, bags in the garage.

It's just like you feel like you have to because of the sense of urgency. Like that scared me the most during COVID. I was like, oh my gosh, like I can go to the grocery store and things will be like ransacked and out of stock. I was like, oh, I wouldn't be prepared to like take care of my family. Is that when you started prepping?

Yeah, 100%. I've never seen anything like it. And like we were in a neighborhood in Dallas where like, you know, bars were getting like, like not burnt down, but like, like broken into glass windows. And I was pregnant with Stella. We went and stayed with my parents because there was, it was, we, it was like all the restaurants, they had, they put like wooden planks on all the doors and windows because they were all getting smashed and vandalized and everything.

Yeah. If you were living in a city at that time, I think it's just something that you like never had seen before. And it was just like, I never, I remember we just had a new baby and it was the first time I felt like a protector of

over our family and I was like oh man like I am not prepared to take like to protect or provide for our family if like just a couple things go wrong because you know we weren't actually out of toilet paper it was like the mass hysteria of people going and like saying like oh my gosh we're gonna run and then they all bought it and so now if there's a supply chain store it's like I've got a warehouse full of toilet paper underground

No. Wait, don't tell her. It's a secret. We'll tell you. It's honestly, we laugh about it because it's like I tried to start a prepper stash and like I like kind of would do a little bit and I honestly just bought a bunch of Tylenol and like toilet paper. I'm like, great, we'll eat toilet paper.

But then ChatGBT came out and I was like, hey, I'm a family of four. Will you help me create a prepper stash? And then I got sick. Okay. Why the two party system though? Because I know like our boy, George Washington was like, don't do the two parties. It's a bad idea. And then here we are America with two parties. It's like, wait, what about the middle ground? What about the person in the middle? What about a third party? Everyone's like, don't vote third party because then you're throwing your vote away. Yeah. So you just crossed the line. I can't talk about it.

I don't really know. I mean, you brought up George Washington. I'm like, okay, wait, this guy knows more than me. I was like, retreat, retreat, retreat. I was like, I sounded really good like five minutes ago. Stop. Aren't all dudes just like history nerds though? Like so many guys, like my college roommates, we were like snowboarding, doing a snowboarding trip. Danny loves history. Danny loves history. But not,

because of like the politics of it. I just think it's fascinating. Yes, the story. The story. It's just so crazy to me that like, even when you read about like the wars that went on, how young they were. So I like envision like my kids or like...

like being that age and having my spouse go out to like, it freaks me out. This girl has watched every World War II documentary known to man. No way. Yeah. Wait, Band of Brothers. Have you seen Band of Brothers? Of course. I love Band of Brothers. It's the best. I love them all. Honestly, there's not a, that's one of the funniest quirks about you is you're like a huge history book. Yeah. Abby's with that with like murder shows. Like she loves Game of Thrones. She loves killing in movies. But I don't, have you seen like war stuff? Have you seen Lover Stalker Killer?

No. On Netflix? You gotta watch it. I'm not watching Netflix stuff. It's like a documentary. It's a podcast I listen to. It's a documentary. You have to listen to it. Lover, stalker, killer? Yes. Oh my gosh. Sounds right up my alley. Hardcore history. Back to prepping though. Oh, sorry. What was your question? Have you ever listened to hardcore history? I haven't. Oh, you'd like it. But my buddy listens to this Revolutions podcast and it's just like hours of just really in deep stuff you would never want to know about our founding fathers and stuff, I guess. Okay, preppers. What?

Yeah, you're a prepper, but you don't have a bunker. Why? I don't like this label. But maybe we do. I mean, yeah. Do I have some Tylenol? Some iodine up in there. Yeah, we have some iodine. Some toilet paper and some non-perishable food stash? Yes. Am I a prepper? Maybe. Maybe.

It's these labels. Because you know, these labels, they put you in a box and then soon I'm going to be prepper and then it would be this guy and then it would be this guy. I'm like, well, I really just have toilet paper. Let's be honest. But yeah, what was your question?

No, I'm just so, yeah. We have nothing. You guys need to do it. I'm telling you. What are we preparing for? But think about if like everybody ransacked the grocery stores again and then like you don't have food. That's true. Or like Tylenol and somebody has a fever. That's going to be warfare in the future, you guys. Because I think, think about this, okay? World War II, less than 100 years ago. Yeah. This is where Matt loses the end. As scary as it is. Yeah.

You cannot tell me that in the next thousand years there will not be another world war. There will. It will just be, it'll look very different. All these people are poking each other right now. It's scary. It feels scary. And it's so effed up because it's just people in power taking advantage of the little guys and then it's like, okay, you guys go and fight. Like Putin's not out here fighting in the war. He's making all people in Russia go fight. But in my mind, we're all going to be in the same boat. So, and it's just, but no, some of them will be trapped in some lawn. Some of us are going to have farms. Think about it.

People will have land and farms and food. You have a farm? No, it's in my... You gotta sell Divvy first and then I'm gonna get a massive farm. But I have a... Your friend Ellie wants to run a farm. She can... Yeah, but that's more because she doesn't like preservatives and stuff on her food. That's true. Well, I don't either. We would like some chickens.

But I think that's how warfare will be fought is I think you'll wipe out the opponent's supply chain and they'll have no way of getting toilet paper and food. People in big cities, you think they're going to start farming in their apartment? You can't freaking do that. No, what are they going to do? I mean, you can have an herb garden in your apartment, but you can't grow all the food you need and have a cow. I just like, like I, I am rooting for the US of A. Okay. I want it to be known that I am rooting for us. But like,

Just government employees. I'm just like...

I don't know if I would trust you to run anything, if I'm being honest. Like, you guys just don't seem to, like, have things figured out. Like, you don't talk to each other. So if the electrical grid goes out, I'm like, I would rather send my dad out there than the government to fix it, you know? Like, I'm just being honest. It's more about, like, just, like, I know what it takes to, like, run a good, efficient company. So I'm like, I just... Maybe you should run for president. I tell him this all the time. Dude, no. He needs to be in politics.

in politics. Think about a worse job. Think about the hate you get online. You'd get infinitely more hate in politics. That would be horrible.

These guys who run for president, these guys who run for president, they, you know, opposition research where basically the other party that's running against you will just send teams of Gen Zers and to research and find the most heinous things and spin and clip things of everything you put out on the internet. You know that how much ammo that all of us have given people? Like we are screwed if we run for office. Bro, they're going to be like playing my like, look at this cringe music video Matt made when he was 24.

And everyone's going to be like, dang, that was kind of good, though. I kind of want her to be my president. It's kind of relatable, right? Wow. Okay, good point, good point.

We'd be screwed. I'm so dead. Even this podcast, they're going to be like, look at his views 25 years ago when he was talking to Matt and Abby Howard. This guy's a psycho prepper. Yeah. No, it's sad because I think like a lot of people probably who get into politics probably have good intentions and then maybe they get swayed by, like you were saying, the audience thing. What was the audience for? Audience capture and corruption, man. Yeah. Corruption and all that. And I think like you probably, like think about,

teachers right so many teachers go in wanting to do good and they're and it's like their first year and they're like i'm gonna be a teacher i'm gonna change the world and help all these kids and then you're treated like crap they're treated like horrible and then you end up falling into the same place as other teachers before you because it's like it's hard and life's not easy and yeah i don't know i just yeah i don't i think people have really good intentions then people can get swayed yeah no i agree man matt for president president

I can't run for office, but I think I can be a killer campaign manager. Instagram husbandry has really trained me well to be a campaign manager. I can't be a first lady. Yes, you can. With the Jackie Kennedy hat, you know? Okay, do you have any theories on this, though? We can cut this out if this is too far. Why have all the candidates been so controversial the past couple elections? I feel like there's not been a candidate where people are like,

You know, they have great morals and I love them. Yeah. I think it's the internet. I think it's like, it's like politics as entertainment at this point. You know, it's like, it's like whoever. And just click baiting things to get like the message across that people want to get across. Like there's campaigns like settle for blank and there's campaigns like, well, he's really not the best person, but I guess I'll vote for him. Cause he, you know,

his values in some way kind of align with mine. I don't know. It's just like, I think the truth is so hard to get to with like both sides at this point because there's so much clickbait and just the, the, the, the media system is based on ad dollars, which come from what clicks. And so it's like, if you're being fed what you want to hear or outrage culture for the most part, I think like the CNNs of the world are feeding like outrage to the left audience and the, the, the Fox news of the world are feeding outrage to,

to the right audience. Like, you know, can you believe this teacher did this on Fox News? And on the left, it's like, you know, far right winger did this, you know? And it's like, everyone's just like so... Yeah. Angry. There's no truth really in that. It's just like, and no one reads it beyond the headline either. So it's like, I think it's just too hard to know

you know, what's going on. Like as, as passionate as I can be talking about this stuff, I don't think I know what's going on. Like, I think that there is like information warfare on both sides and it's just like, Hey, like we're kind of all just like here trying to figure out what's going on. I wouldn't know how to,

and what scares me too is we have had news articles not like we're yeah we're not like some celebrity or anything we've had articles written about us and there's been information in those articles that's untrue and i'm like okay if this if business insider says that we bought a house in hawaii yet we didn't buy a house in hawaii we literally just rented for a year while we lived there then how can i trust like all these reputable you know platforms that are saying these things like

I don't know, because I just have trust issues with the news. It scares me. But I think that we talk about this a lot. I mean, back then, those two years or three years of the internet, it's like cancel culture was so...

It was like, oh my gosh, something could be written about me that's untrue and this whole mob of an audience is going to come after me. I don't know if you all feel this, but we kind of feel like cancel culture, the internet and the audience has become sophisticated at least enough to know that there's not facts being written about everything. That was the one good thing that came out of like,

2020, 2021. Yeah. I've never seen shame be weaponized the way that it did in 2020 through 2023. And really, if you want to know what it's playing on, it's playing on our deep...

right? As a people, it's like you're this or you're that. And it's like, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. And that, that, and people weren't like, people didn't have like the right discernment or tools to know what was true. Like I had, this didn't happen to me personally, but there was like a brand that I was working with. It was a razor brand I was working with. And, and,

were going over to like this razor brand's Instagram and tagging people saying this person made a certain comment about, you know, whether it was the vaccine or this or that. And immediately the razor company would reply and say, thank you for letting us know we will be canceling our contract.

Just from like one follower. Like no facts. No facts. And like publicly wrote that on their Instagram. And I'm like, you're listening to like some Karen up in, you know, wherever. Who knows where she lives? And immediately that person was canceled. And I actually lost one of my contracts during that season from the same thing. Where like nobody ever like did any research to like look into what meant what. But immediately I think everyone was just kind of scared.

And like no one knew how to find the truth. We would literally go to like in that era because we saw the, you guys were raised in that era. We saw a time that was more peaceful before the wartime of those years. And I remember we would go to bed, like legitimately we would go to bed and I would be like, we survived another day. Like it was just like truly every day it was like, I don't know what crazy thing is going to spin up and happen. And I just didn't,

man, it's like PTSD. I'm like, I start crying on the podcast. Like clip this, Matt, clip this. Put it in your teaser. Thumbnail.

There's a tear coming down your face. It was wild. Man, I'm so sorry that you guys went through that. Well, you were with us. What are you talking about? We're just dancing, bro. We're out here dancing. Yeah. I was like, oh my gosh. I can't believe TikTok is in. Did you have a dance background? I do. Yeah, so Abby and I both took dance all growing up. Because we did ballet together.

Well, you said some dance term earlier. What was it? The fouette. The fouette. And I was like, this guy knows. I tap dance too. Wow. I miss tap dancing, dude. Sometimes when I'm like... Should we do a dance class together again? Sometimes I'll just start tapping. Oh, a little bit of... Whenever I'll be bored, I'll be like, maybe I'll just start tapping. Did you guys know that you're in the presence of a state champion Texas Western swing dancing? Country Western swing dancing. No way. Country Western swing dancing. No way. Yeah. Yeah.

That's cool. Yeah, it's a very Texas thing. That's cool. It was pretty much all the girls that didn't make cheerleading...

and then the football players and so a lot of it was actually stunts like like throwing the girls up and doing like flips and stuff but it was really fun because then we also like if you go to school in in texas like you got to know how to how to swing the end do you know king and king and queen of country swing on tiktok they're our friends who like they throw each other in the air they do all these crazy stunts yeah that's what i did okay that's so sick were you the one that they just chucked in the air

I mean, yeah. But it's also like all the football players. So it's like all the girls are getting tossed. Like, you know. The other, the thing about me is like when I watched you guys during COVID dancing, I don't dance at all. Oh, this is so sweet. I don't dance at all. But like, if you want to ask me my favorite genre of movies...

It's breakdancing movies. Step up two, step up three. I've never seen those actually. Stomp the yard. You would love them. Never. They're amazing. And it's like, I have this like alter ego in me where it's like, like I really want, I really want to be that and I can't do it. I just like, I can't. We should do a class together. So this is really sweet. I tried. I brought an instructor to our house. It did not go well. Thanks.

Listen, this is so sweet. So it was during 2020. I'm pregnant. And TikTok comes up. It's probably you guys dancing on their feet. And we're like, crap. Like, who is this guy, Matt Howard? We're not in dance. And like, you know, we're trying to like keep up with the times, like innovate. I'm like, babe, we got to get out here and be dancing. So every Thursday at like two o'clock, I'm like, Jordan starts disappearing. And I'm like, where is he?

is he like but I'm working from home doing town halls or whatever I find out that he goes to hip hop classes he has hired a dance teacher private lessons every Thursday at 2 and

He came back to show me what he was learning. Oh my God, it was the sweetest thing ever. But this boy has no rhythm, but I love him. I asked you on our podcast, I said, did you ever have a midlife or a crisis when you had your first child? Yes. That was mine. I signed up for one-on-one hip hop classes with Phil. I found him on Thumbtack. He literally learned how to do this. He was the only listing that...

for hip hop coach on Thumbtack. Thumbtack is more like handiwork. Wait, hold on. We need to do a TikTok dance. We can put it on Reels too. We have to do a dance together now. Like now that I know that you've literally taken dance. Dude, it's so sweet that you want to do that and make him shy, but he has literally no rhythm.

them no it's true i love him but yeah we could try no let's not i i just bust out the tap dancing y'all do some choreographed country western tap dance ballet thing let's just not get it twisted i mean i'm not really i think the reason that they did well is because people like seeing us as a couple isn't real dancing yeah it's not it's not real you guys know bryce hall

I know not personally. I know. Yes. Actually, we were at this like we live close to L.A. now. So everyone will go over if we get invited to an event. And we were at an event and I was like, holy frick, that's Bryce Hall right next to me. I've heard about this dude. He's like he's like a boxer now or whatever. Yeah. So that was kind of. Yeah. One time I was with my friend in L.A. and I ended up at a poker game at his house.

Wait, what? Yeah, it was the most bizarre night I've ever had in my life. But yeah, he actually nice kid. Really? Yeah. I mean, he's 18 and making a lot of money. I don't think he's 18. He's probably 20.

I think he's like 23. He probably was 18. 24. Yeah, he's 23. Yeah, I mean. That's funny you say that because living in Hawaii, I'm sure you have heard of the Hype House before, but before we did TikTok, I had heard of the Hype House and one time we were just like getting on some e-mails and we look over and I'm like, that's the whole entire freaking Hype House just like chilling in the back of a truck. And I'm like, no, this is me. I'm like, Matt, that's the Hype House. Don't say anything. Hey, what's up? Matt and Abby. We're on TikTok too. I'm like, oh. I just wanted

I just love to meet people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just thought it was cool that they were in Hawaii. Matt's the person on the plane where I can hear him. So if we get split up and he's like getting this person's life story every Uber we're in. That's great. That's a great quality. Yeah, that's great. You have some really good conversations with people, especially Uber drivers do. They're always like people from all over the world and I just love to hear their story and where they're from and like why they moved to the U.S. And it's just, it's cool to know people's story and it's just, you learn something new every time. Yeah. Yeah, you're very friendly. Yeah.

That's good. That's a great quality. It's because he's a golden retriever. Yeah. I get that vibe. Yeah. That's great. What was I going to say? I got, oh, conspiracy theories. Okay. Hold up. Have we not already done these, Matt? No. I feel like Abby was like, listening to their podcast, like Jordan has some conspiracy theories on stuff. So I'm like, wait, does he believe that we- He's not a conspiracist. I'm not. I'm really not a conspiracist. So I'm curious, like, do you think that we made it onto the moon? Are you the guy that's like, the moon landing never happened? No.

Like what, what type of conspiracies do you believe? Yeah. I'm not like all of them. I'm going to be honest. Like, I think it's like a lot of times me and my friends, we like to laugh about them because it's like, it's like, how do I say this?

It's like watching a TV show. Like, you don't want to think about how it's made. You just kind of want to be like, this is fun. This is funny. And so I feel like a lot of times, like, our friends will, like, send funny conspiracies back and forth to each other. And it's always, like, the good ones are, like, the ones that are so crazy. But it's like, oh, wait. Like...

Dude, aliens. Like Taylor Swift being in the Illuminati. Or like, you know... Or that Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey are actually like... Like hired, yeah. Hired. Plants. Those are all like funny. Like I don't really believe in a lot of those things. But I will say this whole alien thing, I'm not saying I'm in on it. Like I understand it. But I'm like, there's some pretty sus things here. Bruh. My buddy was telling me about a Joe Rogan podcast where he interviewed this guy who was like the...

the person that the White House had as a consultant or something about it all. This is where you lose me. And I don't believe it, but I was like, okay, like maybe there is something here. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't listened to the podcast with this alien dude. Yeah, it's really like... It's really funny. It's like there's...

There's so much on the alien stuff that I just like don't know. Hey, real quick. I don't want to waste your time. So I'll keep this super brief. But over the past year, we have grown this podcast from zero subscribers to over half a million. I honestly...

I honestly never thought that would happen. This podcast was really just a side project, just something that we thought might be kind of fun to do on the side, and now it's become a really big part of what we do, and I cannot thank you enough. I've put over 2,000 hours of work into this show, and it really means a lot that you're here, and I have two asks for you. One...

Please share this podcast with somebody that you think it would provide value to. I hope that this episode is providing value in some way. I learned so much with each guest that we sit down with. So even for me, it's just a blast getting to interview these people. And number two, please consider subscribing. I'm going to continue doing everything I can do to make this show the best it can be. Have the guests on that you guys want to have. Ask the questions that you want to ask.

even just like topics that you want us to talk about. I want to make this show the best it can be for you guys because it's just fun for me, to be honest. I really enjoy doing this. So thank you so much for being here. It really means a lot. Let's get back to the episode. Dude, honestly, who knows? Like, I mean, I'm like 50% that aliens are just like a psyop to like distract us and I'm 50% of like...

Kind of makes sense. I mean, it kind of adds up if you put them together. You know, I have no idea. And like, I mean, we're like Christians. And so I don't know how to reconcile that. Like a lot of the pastor community believes that like aliens would be like demonic and

Yeah. And I'm like big, I believe in like spiritual warfare and stuff like that. So I'm like, okay, well, I don't know how this connects, but yeah. Well, hold up. Wasn't that a thing though with, okay, it was either Galileo or one of the astronomers back in the day. See Matt, you're just showing me up now. No, no, no. Hey, hold up. Looking smart before.

for and then you one-up me to make me look like a fool on your own podcast. I forget. I don't want to say it wrong, but there's someone that studied the stars back in the day and by studying the stars, they realized that the whole universe wasn't just revolving around the earth because everybody in the religious communities was like, or the Catholic church was like, yes, the earth is the center of the universe. The sun revolves around the earth and everything revolves around the earth because like God made it. And so it's like, it just makes sense, right? It fits that narrative. And so when this astronomer or whoever, I

I don't know. I think it was Galileo. It might have been somebody else. You're going to get annihilated if it's not Galileo. Whoever it was. This is true though. They held off on releasing that information. And then I think right before they died, they ended up saying, F it. I'm going to die anyway. They published their findings and it made the Catholic Church really mad. But it was like, hey, look, here's the facts.

The earth is not center of the universe. The sun doesn't revolve around the earth. We actually orbit the sun and so do all the other planets. Here's my, this is where I will leave the conspiracy theory comment is like, okay, um, the whole idea of conspiracy theories is that someone knows something that we don't. There is something that we are not being told. Yep.

Okay, like back to the electrical grid breaking and my dad going to fix it versus the government. You're telling me that over several layers of the government, people can keep a secret this large for that long. No shot. And so that's why conspiracies are just like, it's like a fun hobby. It's like reading fiction or listening to a true crime podcast. It's like funny and it's like we all try and connect dots. But like at the end of the day, I think that there's like this,

this side where it's like we all know Bigfoot's not real but it's like let's just laugh about it that's honestly a really good point that's the same point that Dr. Mike made when I asked about is there a cure for cancer because he's like okay do you really think yeah like think about how much money is in big pharma if one of these companies found the cure bro they would be they're making trillions and

Exactly. Why would they keep that? They'd be like, we found it. We'll patent whatever. I don't know if you can patent a cure for cancer, but they would figure out a way to do it. And then they'd be like, we're going to be the trillionaires now that we just freaking figured it out. I think a lot of conspiracy is like this whole idea of the Illuminati, right? It's like we have asked people in LA connected to Kardashians and all them. We're like, hey, is this real? And they're like,

Is it like an orchestrated, like organized thing? Probably not. Like I think most of the time it's like informal networks, but I think conspiracy theory is like actually just incompetence packages is like really strategic thing. I'm like, yeah, that's like, that's awesome. If six, uh,

50 year old men got into a room and created this grants conspiracy to do this. But like, I just don't trust the competence to be able to like actually carry out a strategy. So I think it's like most of conspiracy is like what you think is like conspiracy or orchestrated. It's just like actually incompetent. Well, dude, honestly, it's kind of like Reddit. Like I don't go on there just for my mental health. Cause I'm like, I don't want to,

But it's funny what people come up with. It's like, I don't know how the frick you came up with that. There's somebody that thought we had planned our unplanned pregnancy. And I'm like, if I was that smart to think about that. Great. Exactly. That's a great example. The conspiracies that happen on those type of forums is like, it's crazy.

It's crazy. It's like I couldn't even have concocted this strategy if you wanted me to. Yeah, like even the amount of times that I've been told that I'm pregnant. I'm like, I'm not. And people tell you this is what's happening. I'm like, where did that come from? If that's the narrative that people... What else are they saying? If you have so many pieces of a puzzle, you can kind of put it together into whatever picture you want it to be. 100%. And so it's like... Yeah. It's hard to fight it.

Yeah, but if you're on the receiving end of a conspiracy like let's say like what are you guys? What are they? Well that we were in the Illuminati? Are you are you in the Illuminati?

I can't tell you. I don't even know what the Illuminati is. What is the Illuminati? I just think about an eyeball. It's the group of Hollywood elites that are like, they have all, what is it? Did they take a blood oath or something? I mean, I don't think it's like a blood, but yeah, they basically all, yeah. Wait, I did hear you're part of a secret society for a little bit. You are? I, okay. Oh, so you are the Illuminati. Okay.

Honestly, listen, I will put it out there. I will put it out there that it could have been the lowest level, the entry point of the Illuminati. It probably wasn't though. It probably wasn't. It was probably like a wannabe Illuminati. So the story here, here's the story, is that...

Out of nowhere one day, I get an email and it's like, hey, we understand that you are a person of influence connected to Danny Austin. I was like, you're reaching out to me and not Danny? This is great. Well, it was a men's group. No, there's some females in there. What? I didn't get invited. Sorry, you were invited. They didn't trust you. Well, good. I would have told everybody. So I needed to be known that I was... I'm a guy's love.

I needed to be known that I was never in a fraternity and I really feel like this has damaged me into adulthood because I always wanted to be part of some group. It was a Christian fraternity for two semesters. So I got this email and it was like, hey, you know, you've been selected, show up to this call, et cetera. So I get a call and it's a real person on the other end, some old guy, it sounds like.

And he starts asking me all these questions. He knows some information, but it's like the information he knows is probably like about like things that could have been found on the internet. So I'm like, okay, interesting. And he's like, you know, we are vetting you to be a part of this group. Like we want to know if you're interested. And I was like, well, who's in the group? And he's like, people of influence, veterans.

New York Times bestsellers, like writers. And he's like, for seven easy payments of $9.99. Oh, no. No. Oh, gosh. No payment yet. I'm kidding. And then he sent... So I go through like three rounds of like process that they orchestrate. Just all phone calls? All phone calls. Never meet anyone in person. And, you know, he basically kind of like describes it as like we have...

this formula for success. This is the, these are the success principles that have been passed down from the Rockefellers and all this. And I'm like, okay, I'm like in like, we're like 21 at the time. I'm like, this is good for my career. Like I need to do this. I'm doing this for my family. And no, no, like truly I ended up in a group

There were probably like 16 other people. It was all virtual because this was during COVID. So I think that most of them were based in L.A.,

And I even got a coin. I've told this story. They sent me a coin. And the way that you knew that there were other members in this society was you would do a coin check. And so you would like. Shut up. If you felt like they were in your society, you could say coin check and you would pull out the coin and put it down. And so I got rid of the coin like two years ago. Where did you get?

Throw it away? Yeah, you know. Donate to Goodwill? So I went and then I got into some of their education tracks and it was like kind of like good information. But it was like and it was all like read by this narrator that was like, this is information that's been passed down from like generation to generation. And I was like, I'm pretty sure this is a scam, but I'll give it two more sessions. And I ended up just quitting because. But it wasn't a scam.

Here's what I think it was, truly, is I think it was really good for solo entrepreneurs and small business owners. It was kind of like a...

Tony Robbins type of motivational thing but like sort of marketed as like a secret society how they found me I don't know the other people in it I will be honest like weren't super legit but maybe it was the lowest ring of the Illuminati if I would have just stuck with it I'd have been hanging out with Lady Gaga right now so I don't know I have an assignment for you you need to go back

I honestly can't even I wish he's definitely been kicked out oh I'm excommunicated 100% you gotta work your way back up because we need to know and you can document this you can talk about it on your podcast I know but here's the thing you'll have to backlog it because people the word will get out if you're telling people that you're like you know going in undercover so you have to record all the episodes this is like I wish the hardest part is I don't even know what it's called I forgot it was like four or five years ago

Yeah. But it's a funny story. That's so funny. Actually, when you told that story on our podcast, I had a lot of people DM me and say my husband's in that too. Yeah. Wow. So it's not the alumni. Yeah.

That was so funny. That was good. I've been asking a lot of questions. What questions do you have for, I guess, I guess I kind of just want to know what your day to day is like with being parents have a massive business under the public eye a lot. Like what does that look like? Also your marriage and everything. Yeah. Um, okay. Day to day. We're both kind of early risers. Y'all wake up early. Yeah.

- Yes, we are now. - No, we wake up as late as possible. Like as soon as our first kid wakes up. - We're up at like 5:00 a.m. with our kid. Like our baby needs to eat and then Abby will pump, so I'll feed the baby, Abby will pump. - So yeah, we're up at five, we go back to bed. - Yeah, that's so nice. Yeah, so I work out first thing, we both do, 6:30 or six.

Then they get the, get the babies up. We start really strict at like 9am to 5pm. Like we work like a normal nine to five and we have a team. They actually used to meet at our house, but they don't meet here as much anymore. Um, but from nine to five, like we are pumping out content or like,

you know, on phone calls or meetings. And it's like, as soon as five o'clock rolls around, like we're both really strict, like don't call us, don't text us. We usually don't even like film after five, like anything. It's like family time. Yeah. And so then just rinse and repeat. We also have been traveling a lot. I know y'all travel a lot for your podcast. We've been traveling a lot more. Um, but just trying to find that balance of like saying no to more opportunity. It's hard because I feel like I say no to a lot of things, but I get excited about so many opportunities. So, um,

Um, but being a mom too, and like having kids that are older, like now Stella's like, mommy, like, can you, she'll be like, can you put your phone down? You know? And so like, she's cause she's here after she goes to school with shot and they go to school from nine to 12, but like, I'm still working from 12 to five. And so they come home before they do nap time. Um,

we put them down for a nap. Like sometimes I'm still posting a brand deal or I'm posting something and she'll be like, mommy, can you, and it's so hard. Sometimes I'm like, man, I wish that I wasn't working from home so that she didn't see this. But then I'm also like, Oh, but I love working from home because I can just be with her, you know?

So like y'all were saying too, I think that things are going to change with how we run our business, how we create content as our kids get older too. It's just being aware of what's going on. I know how you feel though because I think the same thing. Oh, I should have an office and I can be more focused and then come home and be fully present. But then I'm in my office and then I hear da, da, da. Yeah, me and Griffin will shout outside the door and be like, yes!

It melts my heart. I love it. So it's just like, I'm not going to get called dada in my office if I get an office space. I have to go out. And Stella's new thing right now is she takes forks and slides them through my office door. And I'm like, I can't not respond to the fork. I have to go.

She just takes all the utensils, kitchen utensils, and slides them through. Because I actually, it's so funny, like my office is downstairs and it didn't have a lock on the door before. But I'm also like, I do like a lot of try on hauls and stuff. And I'm like, okay, people are like in and out of our house. I'm like, y'all got to stop walking out on me naked. Like this is not okay, okay? And so, but like, so I finally got a deadbolt literally put into the floor of my office because I was so sick of being walked in on.

And, um, but like now it's deadbolted. So my kids just know like it's time to stick stuff through the deadbolt. Like that's what they do. They don't even like try to get in anymore. They just start sliding stuff. Do you guys like working together? Oh, I love it so much. Yeah. I mean we, for like, I mean we talked about this earlier, but like for two years it felt like we didn't get to work together as much cause it was like we had to divide and conquer. Like she was like still doing her thing and then I was over at Divvy and we missed it. Yeah. I feel like it's just like if you kind of find a rhythm and you're

It's not really a job what we all do. It's more of a lifestyle. I really miss the lifestyle. I think if you're willing to listen to each other and work on things too and not be stubborn, then it makes it fun. But if we're both stubborn in our ways, it's not fun. Yeah. Because then you just butt heads. But I think it forces you to learn in your marriage to deal with conflict faster than most can. I mean...

I can't just disappear and go to my nine to five for four days straight. And we fight on a Monday and talk on a Friday to reconcile it. It's like, okay, we have like an hour before we record. So let's figure this out. Do you guys ever get uncomfortable when you get recognized in public? No. Um, everyone that we meet in public is so like, honestly, I become friends with a lot of people that I meet in public. Like they're just still normal and nice and kind and,

And it actually really helps me put things into perspective whenever I meet people in person. Cause I'm like, Oh my gosh, like it's not just like a little icon on Instagram. I'm like, you're real and you're so sweet. And like, I love you. And the fact that you support me means the world. And so it's always like, I love to do like events with my audience where like, maybe we'll give out like 30 tickets and go see a show or something. And,

Sometimes that can be a little overwhelming because you're hanging out with 30 strangers, but I'm like, I need to do this because I love connecting with these people. It drives me and it ends up being so fulfilling. Why do I get nervous still? I've been doing this for four years. They're nervous to say hi to me. I'm like, I'm nervous for you to say hi to me. They want a picture. I'm like, okay. I still get so nervous and a little anxious. I feel like sometimes people...

People probably don't understand that side of it. That we're just human too. And if I'm by myself and I'm not with Abby, I'm like, okay, like when it's with Abby, they go in the middle and we both put our arm around them. I'm like with just me, I don't want to be like, I want to be nice and friendly, but I don't want to be weird and like put my arm around them for a picture and then for it to be like perceived the wrong way. So then sometimes I'm just like, do the peace sign in the picture. They're like this monster. And then there have been times, I don't know. It's just like, I get nervous. I don't get it. I do too. Yeah.

Yeah, it's hard. That's a good thing. It's different for you because like you have like your own brand too. Like I don't really have that. Like I'm just Danny's like I'm connected to Danny. I think people say hi, but not as much. And so it's like I would feel what you feel. No, no, it's good too, bro. Like a lot of times it's like, oh my gosh, Matt, so good to see you. Where's Abby? Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah. I'm like, sorry, Danny's at home. Like you want me to call her? Like what?

it is funny because Jordan is, he's so sweet and he can go like so deep in conversation, but you're, it's a little tougher for you to do like the initial, um, like soft talk. What do you call it? Like small talk. Yeah. Yeah. And like, so sometimes I feel like people come up to you and like, you feel very uncomfortable. Yeah. I just like, I'm very, I feel like I'm kind of selective about like who I want to go deep with, you know? And, uh,

So yeah, it's like, it's hard. I don't really know how to react. He's like, hi. I'm like, babe, be warm. Like, say, ask him a question. He's like, you know, like, it's so different. Yeah, yeah. That's funny. Do you guys plan on having baby number three anytime soon? That's a good question. Yeah, I want to really bad. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't know how soon, but like, I want maybe this year. Like, try for baby number three or like, have the baby this year. It's just,

Well, is that even possible? I think you could. If you tried right now, you probably could. No, no, no, not right now, not right now. Okay. It's hard because it's like we, and I'm sure you guys feel this too, it's like you get that amnesia effect where it's like, oh man, we just stabilized our life. Life is so good. Life is so easy. That wasn't really that hard. And like, I'm just scared to underplay how hard pregnancy and all that stuff is. Yeah, I just want, I want so many more babies. It's just the pregnancies that are a little scary for me. Actually, it's more so the postpartums that are scarier for me.

But yeah, maybe.

We'll see. Maybe if we see y'all again. You never know. How do you guys... Oh, sorry. I'm asking a follow-up question. How do you... Because we got pregnant by surprise. So, like, how are you... They kind of did, too. We did, too. Oh, you did? Yeah. So, were you just... I was seven months postpartum. Oh, seven months. Pool game? Yeah. Did you see the pool game? Pool game strong. My pool game was not strong. Clearly, yours wasn't either. I know. You failed. I've actually heard from another couple that... So bad. Another couple that the pool game did not work, which is so funny. It always works for us. No, no, no. It didn't work because he didn't...

Yeah, he didn't pull. Okay, so neither did he. And I knew immediately after. I was so upset after. I was like, what the heck? Like, we didn't talk about this. But it was already too far gone. And he was like, Danny, it's not going to happen for one time. And I was like, yes, that's what they teach you. And hell, it was like, it happens once. It was Thanksgiving for us. I was like, oh, that's what they teach you. It was just like, there was just...

Sex ed in high school. Pull out method does not work, period. And it's scary how many guys in college just think, oh, pull out.

Keep in mind, we knew it didn't work. We knew that, but people legitimately think that it's going to work for them, and it doesn't. So are y'all off the pool game then? I have an IUD. Oh, which one do you have? Copper IUD? No, I have Kyleena. No, Mirena. I had a copper IUD twice. My body rejected it, and now that I've had babies, I know what was happening. I basically went into labor with this IUD, the most painful thing.

I went into contractions for like hours. My body was basically just like rejecting it. But this was like when we were engaged and I finally got it taken out and like, but the reason I like the copper AD, it was like non-hormonal because the marina or whatever is hormonal. And I didn't want it to affect my hormones because like birth control and hormone stuff, like it throws me. I'm a different person. Why do you feel like it makes you more stable? It probably does. I've heard,

Oh, yeah. You don't get your period anymore. Yeah. We don't talk about hormonally, too. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I've heard, like, both sides. Sometimes it helps with acne or whatever. Yes, yes. But mine, like, so I wanted the copper one. Well, I got it. My body rejected it. And then, like, I don't know. I was thinking, like, a week later, I went and got it put back in. Because I was like, well, this needs to work. Like, and then it happened again. But now that I've had babies, I'm like, that was the same exact pain. Like, it's literally, like, going through labor.

No. Yeah. And so that one's out for us. And then, you know. But like, it's also like, I want to have four kids. We're wild cards. We're just flying by the seat of our pants. You're saying right, like literally right now you're doing pull out. Yeah. We have like. You guys are risky, man. You know, we just like to live life on the edge. I don't know if this is too personal, but this is like, this is like very interesting. It's like, I don't know how you feel about this, but it.

It's like harder sometimes to do the pool game because it's like, it takes so much like mental, like strength. I, it's like almost like I have to like, I don't even understand it. I have to focus so hard. So what you got to do is just, just use condoms at first. I know. Condoms suck. He would never. I know. No, honestly, I've thought about it. He only got that one time in our life and he didn't. Bro, here's the thing though. At first condoms suck. We're crazy. You guys are nuts.

After a few times, bro, it feels the same. After a few times with condoms. Seriously. You've never admitted that to me. You've never.

She's like, why do I have an IUD then? Okay, let me give an example though. Let's pretend. Okay, it's so much better without condoms, obviously. Let's talk about diet Coke versus regular Coke. I drink diet Coke more often now than regular Coke. And everyone's like, oh my gosh, the real stuff's much better, which it is. But if all you're drinking is the diet stuff and you're not used to the taste and flavor of the real stuff, then you're like, oh, this is really, really good. I'm so sorry. We just met them before.

No, it's okay. This is honestly like, this is probably the most valuable part of the podcast. Matt is the horniest guy in the world.

in the world like who is the guy the guys are probably like this is good like okay like what like now you gotta just you just gotta do it and you gotta just like make it happen yeah yeah i consider dude i considered i was like i could just get the snip and then like get it redone if we want to have more kids i thought so this is what happens i thought about because you can but it's not 100 accurate so like if you get the snip you're not guaranteed that if you get the reverse surgery that it can make you be able to have kids again yeah i don't want to risk that don't risk that

But I don't want to just expect Abby to do everything because that's wrong. I know. I'm fine. Dude, I feel that. I feel like it's selfish. Exactly. After how much pain you went through, I was like, I can't ask you to do that. I was like, it's on me. I have to be mentally strong. I have to just focus and make sure that I don't. Well, that's really sweet of you. Except for we did accidentally get pregnant the second time. So I don't know how sweet it is, but it's fine. I know exactly how you feel. And that's why I will get this nip one day, 100%. So you're back on condoms.

Sorry. No, no, no. You don't have to be. Just IUD. Do you want to have more babies? I want more babies. And period. And period. Yeah, I don't know what will happen. Like, we've... We can talk about this. We've talked about, like, Matt's done. He'd be happy with two. I would love more than two. But I feel like our... I feel content with what we have. Yeah, totally. Matt, I'm ordering some condoms on Amazon right now. Stop it, man. You're joking. Wait, actually... Wait, actually, do that yourself. I'll tell you something.

- I'll tell you, you should also use our Amazon. - Make sure to order. - The awkward thing is I can't order any of that stuff to our house 'cause our team's all over us. - That is so funny. - That is a problem, yeah. - That's so funny. I know what that's like. - Well, how do you think they use our move? - Well, you guys, thank you so much for being on the podcast. This was so much fun. How can people find you? Where should they follow you to stay up to date with everything? - Yeah, so we post daily on Instagram stories at Danny Austin, D-A-N-I, Austin. And then we also have a TikTok, the Danny Austin, 'cause Danny Austin was taken.

Actually, I took it with my own email and then I lost the email's password. Yeah, it happens. So I actually own both of them. And then Divi. And then Divi. Yeah, Divi. Actually, all of our hair care products are sold at all Ulta's. That's so sick. So in stores at Ulta. Go check it out. D-I-V-I. Super happy for you guys. Very inspired by your success. Yeah, it's just so cool to have these conversations. Thank you for being open about everything. So that was really cool. Thanks for having us. Of course. All right. Thanks. Bye.

Bye. Oh, we also say peace out dudes at the end. You guys ready to say peace out dudes? Three, two, one. Peace out dudes.