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cover of episode True Spies Debriefs: Mubin Shaikh on the psyche of an extremist

True Spies Debriefs: Mubin Shaikh on the psyche of an extremist

2024/12/17
logo of podcast True Spies: Espionage | Investigation | Crime | Murder | Detective | Politics

True Spies: Espionage | Investigation | Crime | Murder | Detective | Politics

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Morgan Childs
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Mubin Shaikh
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Mubin Shaikh:我作为一名干预专家,与那些卷入极端主义的年轻人进行一对一的干预。我的工作是评估他们的激进化程度,并尝试帮助他们脱离极端主义。我运用自身作为前极端主义者的经验,以及同侪支持和激励性访谈等专业技术,与他们进行交流。我处理的案例涵盖各种情况,从被捕入狱的年轻人到尚未被捕的青少年,甚至包括一些患有自闭症或强迫症的青少年。这些年轻人的激进化原因复杂多样,既有意识形态因素,也有社会心理因素,例如家庭问题、学习问题等。许多情况下,他们并非真正认同极端主义意识形态,而是因为生活中的不满和愤怒而寻求宣泄途径。我的工作不仅仅是帮助他们脱离极端主义,更重要的是帮助他们找到人生的方向和意义。 我与他们交流时,会坦诚地分享我自己的经历,让他们了解我的背景和动机。我发现,直接坦诚地披露我的经历,能够建立信任,并促进有效的沟通。虽然我的工作充满挑战,但看到这些年轻人逐渐脱离极端主义,并重新融入社会,我感到非常欣慰。 Morgan Childs:Mubin Shaikh 的工作为我们理解极端主义提供了宝贵的视角。他的经历和专业知识,使他能够有效地与那些卷入极端主义的年轻人进行沟通和干预。他的工作也揭示了极端主义的复杂性,以及社会心理因素在极端主义中的作用。此外,他的工作也强调了沟通和理解在打击极端主义中的重要性。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What is the origin of the term 'formers' in the context of counter-extremism?

The term 'formers' refers to former extremists who have de-radicalized and now assist others in exiting extremist movements. It gained prominence after the 2011 Summit Against Violent Extremism, where former extremists from various groups shared their experiences.

How does Mubin Shaikh approach self-disclosure in his work with extremists?

Mubin Shaikh deliberately starts his conversations by sharing his own story to ensure transparency. He believes this approach builds trust and allows him to address potential objections upfront, such as his past as an undercover operative.

What are the key components of Mubin Shaikh's intervention techniques?

Mubin uses a mix of peer support, motivational interviewing, and his experience as an undercover operative. He leverages his shared experience with extremism to offer hope and practical skills to those he works with.

Why does Mubin Shaikh consider extremism a public health issue?

Mubin views extremism as a public health issue because it affects individuals' mental health, identity, and sense of belonging. He believes that addressing these underlying factors is crucial to preventing radicalization.

What is the role of Parents for Peace in countering extremism?

Parents for Peace is a U.S.-based organization that provides support to families dealing with radicalized members. They offer a helpline and intervention services to help families navigate the challenges of extremism.

How has the internet influenced the age of individuals becoming radicalized?

The internet has led to younger individuals becoming radicalized as their developing brains are exposed to complex extremist ideologies without the critical thinking skills to process them effectively.

What is the difference between disengagement and de-radicalization?

Disengagement refers to stepping back from extremist activities while still holding some beliefs, while de-radicalization involves a complete cognitive shift, changing one's mind and views entirely.

How does Mubin Shaikh address the impact of extremist ideologies on his faith?

Mubin feels saddened by the damage extremist ideologies do to the image of Islam. He often has to explain to non-Muslims that these extremist actions are not representative of true Islamic teachings.

What advice does Mubin Shaikh give to those trying to communicate with individuals influenced by extremist ideas?

Mubin advises against shutting down communication and suggests engaging in open, utilitarian conversations. He emphasizes the importance of understanding grievances and modeling balanced, moderate behavior.

What is the significance of the exit peer curriculum in counter-extremism?

The exit peer curriculum, developed by Georgia State University and Parents for Peace, borrows from peer support and motivational interviewing techniques to facilitate the exit from extremist groups. It is a relatively new field with no clear precedent.

Shownotes Transcript

What can drive an ordinary person to extremist ideology? 

Hear from former security intelligence and counter terrorism operative, Mubin Shaikh, on his current work as a Counter Extremism Specialist. He delves into real world cases of those who succumb to extremist ideology, why it happens, and his challenging work trying to bring people back.

From SPYSCAPE, the HQ of secrets. A Cup And Nuzzle production. Series producer: Joe Foley. Produced by Morgan Childs.

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