I am Jan Arden. It is a beautiful day in Alberta. The sun is shining. I have my deck set up. I went to the garden center. But listen, before I go on, this is the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. I'm with Sarah Burke. Hello. We got a lot to talk about today. Mark Brand is an amazing guy. I have a really big intro for him, so I'm not going to tell you all about him now because we're moving on. The Toronto maple leaves are firmly...
in the Stanley Cup playoffs. I don't care, but there are a lot of people that do care. I'm cheering for Edmonton. I'm not shocked. They freaking won. The town went upside down. I'm watching it on TV. 19 years since we've made it to the second round for anyone who's not paying attention. It's a very exciting time. I have pulled all of my Toronto Maple Leafs attire out of my closet and I may have worn my jersey at the themed bachelorette party on
on the weekend. Whoops. Okay, so let's just, let's touch base on the patchlet. If you were listening last week, Sarah was talking about
her involvement or lack thereof. And you got a little bit of blowback. Take it away. So, I mean, not a big deal, but of course there's going to be a few comments. One comment said, oh, Sarah talking about it on the podcast. That's awkward. Does she think that's going to make her relationship better with her sister? Now, I hear what you're saying to this listener. I also want this person to know that everything I've said on this podcast, I've also said to my sister. Mm.
Mm-hmm.
The theme was like black and white, but we were just wearing like leggings and, you know, sweatpants and stuff. So I didn't feel too bad about wearing my Maple Leafs jersey. But I will say, maid of honor tapped me to ask me to change into my evening attire. And I was like, this is it, honey. Wow. That's all I'll say. But it was a beautiful weekend. I bonded with the sister-in-law. We had a really nice time. Good. She was like telling me how much she loves my family and how happy she is that, you know, her brother met my sister. It was beautiful.
So a comment that came in about the speech that we were talking about for the wedding, how I'm not doing a speech. You were asked not to do a speech. Diane sent us a message. Okay. And I love this message.
I want to comment to Sarah about her sister's wedding. Even though she can't do a speech that day, I would still write up what she would have said and send it to her. I love that. She will feel better having put it to paper and her sister will see that she meant only good by it. I have a similar sister who gets very jealous and turns against me. You have to kill them with kindness. And to have it as a keepsake. But also like the intention would be for her to see that I want to celebrate her. Do it in calligraphy. Yeah, because I do calligraphy. I'll get it printed. But I think...
I think that it's a great idea to say, this is for you. Read it. Yes. Two weeks from now or read it. Never. This is just, yes, this is my speech. Just you between you and I, I love that. That's a great thing. And my boyfriend actually came up with this idea too. He's like, well, at the rehearsal dinner, you can say a couple words, like just clink the glass, stand up and tell everyone how much you love her. Right? Like that'll be easy. Exactly. So that's where we're at. I like your boyfriend. He's, he's, he's,
He's coming up with some good stuff. So him and I are going to Nashville next week. So Caitlin is actually going to be your co-host next week again. Yeah. I don't know when she's going to come back full time. She's with the cutest baby. That child is so cute. I just, I'm telling you, I have this thing. I have to look up what kind of a condition this might be. I picture biting this child's feet off his body. I somehow knew you were going to say that. Just nibbling his feet.
His little, like starting with this little toe and working to the ball. Anyway. You might have a problem. Will is a cute little fellow. And, but he's got really super cute parents. The father is very attractive. The mother is very attractive. They are a cute couple. And this kid's eyeballs are like planets. Oh, did you see? He's got these two little front teeth now. I noticed. I'm going to bite those off too. Ha!
I'm going to bite them off. So cute. But listen, I want you to ask her about the Met Gala because I know that's very in the Caitlin wheelhouse and she'll want to comment on some of the outfits, but that's not my thing. So you ask her. Met Gala, I'm on it. I don't know a thing about the Met Gala. What's it for? I hope it raises money for something. Does it raise money for something? It raises money for the museum in New York. Okay. The biggest night in fashion with all proceeds going to the
Good. All right. So I thought on the show today, though, you might want to talk about Gordon Lightfoot, who passed. Gordon. Gordon. Can I just say, he has lived so much longer than I thought. Because people might remember this years ago. And I mean, 20 years ago, he...
He had some really, really serious health issues. We almost lost him 20 years ago, yeah. And he has just been so steadfast and he has continued to work all these years. Gordon is one of the few artists that even in his 80s, and he was certainly in his 80s, he was doing four and five night runs at Massey Hall. Massey Hall holds 2,500, 2,600 people and he was selling them out.
And he was playing and he was standing there in his beautiful suit jackets and had his hair flipped back and had his guitar and his band. And he was singing Sundown and the Edna Fitzgerald. And I mean, the three hour evening that he can fill with songs that you know every word of. I did a tweet yesterday or to this morning and it was just like, you don't know how
how many Gordon Lightfoot songs that you know all the words to. Very accurate statement. They're just in your head. My Gordon Lightfoot story, and everyone has one. Tell me. I was at a folk festival. It was back in the day, and I don't know which one it was, but it was after he got ill. So it was within the last, I don't know, 16, 17 years. Knock on the door. It's the trailer. Poppy thinks somebody's here.
And there was a few of us in the trailer and they opened up the door and it was Gordon there. He's like, hi, can I just say hi to Jan? I'd never met him before. Oh, that's so nice. He had his guitar with him. He got into the trailer and he sat down. We had a chat and, you know, it was just like, great to meet you. And I was just like, I can't even believe I'm talking to the man.
And then he just said, would you mind if I went up before your set and did a few songs? I said, Gordon, you can do my whole set if you want to. You can, you know, I think I have an hour. So do you want an hour? And he laughed. No, I just, but I'd love to do a couple songs. So it was really amazing for me to go out there and just say, we're going to have a great afternoon. People are really excited. And I'm like, but before I start, I've got a little special guest for you. You might, I don't know if you know him. Um,
He's an up and coming guy. Let's hear it for Gordon Lightfoot. And the crowd erupted. Well, it was just joy, pure joy. And he got up. His daughter was with him and he sung two or three songs. And then he said, thanks so much for letting me get up and sing some songs.
So, you know, he would have been probably 70. No, he was probably in his late 60s then. So it was, but he just, he was one of the best songwriters ever.
I'd ever heard in my life. You know, he, there was a group of people coming out of this country in the fifties and sixties, Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen and Neil Young, um, Gordon Lightfoot. They, they just, they really were, they set the tone globally. They set the tone for what happened in the world and really what the bar was for great storytelling. Um, any one of his songs you can sit in the, I don't know, it was a special time for him. It was very, a very, um,
There was something that happened between him and his creator that he made all these songs. Bob Dylan frigging inducted him. Like, come on. Bob Dylan was going on and on about like basically wishing he was Gordon Lightfoot. Yeah, I don't think. And he just, he was, he had the best of everything, but he's, he's, he's off doing his stuff. He was a very resilient person.
And, um, our, our, our guest today, our guest today, Mark Brand talks about his mom. I asked him about his parents a little bit and he talks about the resilience of his mother. And, and I think Gordon Lightfoot very much personified someone who is loving his life so much and that art kept him going. So fly well, Gordon, you're off and running. And I got to read you this tweet from another one of our former guests that I loved on the Gordon Lightfoot topic.
Oh, George Strombolopoulos. If there was ever a case for the afterlife, it's so these two can meet up tonight, smoke cigarettes, have a drink, spin yarns, and make everyone up there feel whole again. Lightfoot and Prine, conjurers of light and dark, two of the most brilliant storytellers. Oh, I love that tweet so much. Thanks, George. That's great. No, it's true. It's a huge loss, but it's also a huge blessing.
um that we got so we had so many years oh my gosh and that he was canadian you know it's it's a very huge point of pride for canada rolling stone had a story up the second it happened yesterday like he's a global phenomenon he's not just someone that you look at as like oh he made a big in canada um i gotta ask you before we go to a break here your favorite gordon life a song sundown i think uh
It just reminds me of my dad. It reminds me of really, really great childhood memories growing up. My dad singing along to it. And I think it's, you know, one of the first times I can remember listening to a lyric in a song and going, wow, you can...
Songwriting is, you can write anything you want. You can tell stories. You don't have to just do made up words about nothing. You can actually be really personal. I loved all his songs, but his voice, saw him many times through the years, caught him at different festivals. I saw him at Massey Hall quite a number of years ago. And he just was amazing.
dazzling everybody song after song, after song, after song, after song. You're sitting there. Oh my God. I didn't even know this was his song. And the other one is if I could read your mind, if you, if you could read my mind. So that song, there's some crazy statistic, um, has been recorded by five or six or 700 different artists. Like I think the number is higher than that. I'm not kidding you. It was, but when Barbara Streisand, um,
sings one of your songs
In the 70s, I think you've kind of made it. This is a guy who's had Elvis, Johnny Cash, like the list goes on and on. I know, Elvis. Holy. Anyway, everyone should listen to some Gordon Lightfoot this weekend. And yeah, like you always say, Jen, steady on, Gordon. Steady on, Gordon. Anyway, we've got lots to talk about the show today. Mark Brand is with us, and I'm going to tell you a little bit about Mark Brand before we start talking to him. He is one of my fellow iHeartRadio hosts. He hosts a podcast called Better.
And if you haven't hit the subscribe button on Better yet, you need to do that with Mark Brand because it will bring you a lot of joy, a lot of cheer, a lot of hope, a lot of positivity in these crazy times that we're living in, these uncertain times. I've been a guest on Better. In fact, I probably was the first guest on Better. I think I was, Mark. You'll have to tell me if I'm wrong.
It's a podcast about hope and resilience and basically leaving the planet a better place than we found it. If you're not familiar with our friend Mark Brand, who's out in Vancouver doing amazing things for his community while leading five organizations, he is a social impact entrepreneur. And he's going to tell us what that is. He's a chef and a systems designer who's committed to ending hunger.
And that's just the beginning. Mark Brand, welcome to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. I am so happy to be here with you both. So we're doing kind of a cross-country thing today. Mark is in Vancouver, I'm assuming. Sarah is in Toronto. And I'm kind of in the middle in Rocky View County, Alberta. Mark, how are you today? And tell me how your life is going.
I'm genuinely so, so, so good. The folks watching or listening right now didn't get to see my reaction to seeing you and Sarah Burke this morning, but allow me to reiterate, my Tuesday is going to be really great. It genuinely is. Two of the people that I admire the most as women in media, as powerhouses pushing stuff forward, to be in the seat with you is always an honor. And how's my life going? Yeah. It couldn't be much better. I'm in the work every day. I got a little bit of a tan this weekend. I don't know. I'm feeling good. Yeah.
Okay, well, tell us right out of the gate here, what is a social impact entrepreneur? I love this. So I got deemed that back in about 2010, 11, when I took over the historic Save on Meat space on the downtown east side of Vancouver, the unceded territories of the Squamish Nation.
And essentially what I was looking to do there was to create a community space to bridge the gaps between those of economic privilege and those who do not have economic privilege for multitude of reasons, whether that's coming out of recidivism, coming out of street entrenchment, mental, physical disability. What I understood in working in this community for many years prior was it was my favorite community if you just got to know it. Like we've all got that friend that's like, if you just got to know this person, they're a little nervous at first, but they're incredible and they're so special. And I just, I want you to know that.
Take that energy and put it into a business so that people could intermingle and understand each other with the hopes that we could start to address some of these things that are happening in systemic issues in the neighborhood. And so I guess the title for that is an entrepreneur who's creating business and opportunity whose focus is solely on social impact and that impact on our entire society.
Not just, I think people get confused. It's like not just the people who are marginalized because all of us are facing issues, whether that's isolation, bias, trauma, we're all on some side of this thing. And so how do you bring everybody together? And so that's what that title in my 10 years of trying to explain it, that's the best I can do. I hope that's helpful. It's hard when somebody says, you know, what do you, what do you do for a living? I mean, I think maybe 40, 50 years ago, that was a little easier to articulate because
You know, you'd pick to trade. You know, certainly my dad and your dad, our parents, Sarah, growing up, you face a lot of blowback in a job like this, in a situation like you're in, trying to help people who are marginalized, helping people who are, like you said,
that face addiction, mental illness, isolate, whatever their legacy trauma is. Like you said, we all have it, but you do, you face a lot of people putting their hands up and go, wait a minute, Mark, we don't want these people here. How do you answer to that kind of vitriol and that kind of intolerance? I mean, it's just, people have no patience.
Yeah, thank you for that question. It's, I'm feeling it in my body as you say it. I'm like, I don't do it well, is my answer. I mean, I can share how I actually do it. But you know, my human answer is it hasn't stopped hurting.
Um, you know, I, I think I was in a really beautiful position for myself and my own ego and my own privilege and everything. I was an entrepreneur first and I had a slew of very successful businesses, scratch made, you know, no trust fund kid, just like made everything myself and had restaurants and a live music venue and a gallery and all sorts of things that I cared a lot about. Same vein community. And when you are not threatening anybody's worldview, man, life is real easy for you.
doors opened everywhere I went. Anything I wanted to do, you know, everybody was excited to see me. It's like, oh, it's the cool kid restaurateur chef guy that does all the things. And then as soon as I was like, hey, look over here. I think, you know, we should probably be paying more attention and using our privilege to help the underprivileged. Whew.
Those doors start closing real quick. Was there a moment that you realized, oh, I need to do more about that? Yeah. I mean, I've had a lot of defining moments as far as like what my role is. And one of those I talk about is my friend, Michael Haggerty, or Football Mike, who passed a few years ago now, who was my best friend for years.
Damn, damn near 15 years. And who was living in and out of SRO or single room occupancy. And him and I became friends and he started working for me. And I started to understand a lot more through the lens of Mike. And then the Save On project happened. And through there, I just kept testing my biases every day. And I think I was even using my own privilege and my microphone to then isolate and ostracize people of privilege.
which did not work out well for me. I got to tell you, you don't make a lot of friends pointing fingers. And so I had some very rough years and I would say we're off the back end of the now, but a bunch of years where I upset people in media, I upset people who were in my friend circle, I upset potential donors, I upset the government, I upset charities, you know, the list goes on because I was outspoken. And truthfully, I would take a good half of it back if it
Because I was clumsy and arrogant and I was unwieldy, if you will. So yeah, it was challenging. But you got their attention. You got people's attention. And it's that small percentage of the helpers in this world that have to be loud. You have to rise above the noise in this world to make a difference. And never mind that, trying to grab people's attention when you're talking about social media, when you have people scrolling very quickly. So how do you...
get people to, obviously money's an important part of what you do and you have to have donors to make it work, to feed a community. I can't even imagine how many unhomed people don't even have one square meal a day and how you go about tackling that. But money, money's a big thing and getting people to part with their money.
Definitely. It's a driver for sure. There's a trajectory of how I've tried to do it and how it hasn't worked and how I assumed it would work because of traditional capitalist means, right? Like, okay, the more attention I can get for this, the more people will see what I see and care. And that's not how it works. People don't come to a cause because they see something. They might click a donate button once, they might share a story. We see viral videos go, but will that create longevity and advocacy or accomplices? It doesn't.
And so we had an Oprah reality TV show to kick off, save on. We were everywhere. We were on the sides of buses in Toronto. And I was like, this is it. We did it. We hit the top of the mountain. Everybody will care. They were like, this is great. You're doing great work. The critical part is you're doing great work. I'm like, no, no, we need to do. And they're like, no, you got this.
So I pivoted what we did about five or six years ago, focused less on media. We'd hit every mountain there, like we'd done everything we could, and it wasn't working. And so now I focus on ground level advocacy. So we create events specifically for people to engage with each other and other populations, where they also make donations, they learn to cook.
They serve meals. They buy a token, our token program, and they hand one out to somebody in the street who then eats a meal. They are part of the solution. But more importantly, they become advocates themselves because you can't engage with somebody who's facing this, hear their story and see different. It doesn't work that way. Right? So the more people we can get talking to people is great. If I'm on TV every day talking about it, it just doesn't work. Your podcast is called Better.
Obviously, human beings can do a heck of a lot better than they are. How do you make yourself better, Mark? And my second part of that question is, do you still believe in people? I love it. And my friend Jan Arden knows that that's the kind of prompt I'm looking for in a conversation. Let me answer the second one.
Unequivocally. Okay. 110,000%, I believe. I waver. I waver. I dislike some people's current disposition. Yeah. But I believe in us. And I'll tell you why I believe in us. It's not because of what I read on social media because, boy, it's dark out there. It's not because of the cocktail parties or events that I have to speak at or go to where people are like, hey, so you're the guy who helps the hobos.
It's not that. That doesn't help me at all. But those open conversations, what helps me is when I'm walking in the street, when I'm seeing people in triage, whatever neighborhood it is, when I'm working in Harlem with the food bank, when I'm working in Alberta, when I'm working in Halifax and I see the people in the street doing the work and the other people supporting and the acts of kindness when nobody's looking.
That's what gives me the hope. And I see it every day. And so I surround myself with it because otherwise, imagine, and you and I have had long conversations about Twitter. Imagine if that was your worldview. It's so toxic and so insane. And people don't really talk like that. We always say, keep that same energy when you see me.
Right? Yeah. People don't keep that same energy. Literally never. So it's not real. It's a false bravado. It's a false worldview. Everybody wants to belong. They're joining sides. But when it comes push to shove and we see people in the street or we see tragedy, people rally. Now, not always the best way. I feel like they always have to be pushed to that brink though to rise out of their own problems, their kids at school, the stuff that they're dealing with.
Apathy is such a, I think it's the word of the last 20 years. And this is what always floors me is that there's so many armchair critics getting back to the social media thing. You guys should really be doing something about the problems at home. You know, Jan, you're going on and on about saving the horses that are
that are flying to Japan, but we've got problems right here in our own backyard. It's the other person that needs to do the heavy lifting and it drives me. And they don't even realize that they're drowning in apathy. They just, they don't care, but they'll sure criticize you, Mark. And I bet you face so much of that criticism. I see it. I see it from here. I read your social media. I see what's going on. Yes, there's lots of good people, but do the bad people seem louder to you?
No, no. I figured out years ago, and we've talked about this too, and I share this for everybody at home. There's three different ways that we control our energy and ourselves, right? What we ingest, literally, what we eat, what we drink. I'm obviously a big proponent of that stuff, right? Big, big deal. What we put in front of our eyeballs, right?
Right. Like what we look at and what we give our attention and our intention and then what we hear, what we listen to. Now, people would be like, oh, well, you can't block it out and have blinders. Yes, I can. Yeah, that's my my decision. I stopped watching the news. And I don't say this because I'm anti news. I love the news. I stopped watching it because I can't help but fixate based on the way that my mind is built.
And so I curate very carefully my time, my energy, my food, my liquid, my intake, where I spend my time. Yesterday, I worked on our food recovery program with a new brand new young hire who has Down syndrome, who's done a year cooking. I surrounded myself with Emma yesterday.
And that's what I took in. Emma and Ike made 270 scratch made chowder meals with a bunch of our team members, fed those to women and children fleeing violence. I wasn't on Twitter yesterday. So if Dan 14782 from Toronto had some shit to say yesterday, I wasn't around for it. I missed him. And also, why would I ever give somebody I don't know my energy like that?
The only energy I'm giving to people is people who actually need it. Repeat that again, Mark. I want people to hear what you just said one more time. Why would I ever give energy, my energy, to people who in no way deserve it or have access to me? I do not suffer from apathy. I'm on the other end of the pool. I wish I could be like that. I wish I could just kind of not care or be nonchalant.
Can't do it. Nope. Nobody wishes that of you. We need you to do those things, right? And when we talk about what you create and what you put in the world, it is fueled by that. The important part is just not to hold onto it. We're going to be right back. I've got so many other things that I want to ask Mark about your parents. And I want to ask about young Mark. When we come back, don't go away. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast and show.
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We're back. This is the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. I'm with Sarah Burke. She's in Toronto. And Mark Brand is here with us from Vancouver. Mark's podcast, Better Is. Change in the world, one podcast at a time. What I wanted to ask you before the break was what kind of a kid you were.
And how Mark Brand became the guy that is so inspiring, motivated, joyful in the light of a lot of dark shit going on in the world. Who were you, Mark, at nine, ten? I mean, it's interesting you say those specific years because I was...
terrified at nine and 10. I was a very scared, confused. So we had just moved. I lived in Alberta from five to nine. We moved to Halifax, Nova Scotia when I turned nine. So I love that you pulled that out. And because I've actually already had that energy in my mind. My mom and my dad both came from very poor backgrounds. My mom was for...
All intents and purposes unhoused when she was about 12. Her mom was committed. Her dad had passed and she was couch surfing and got her first job at the famed Neptune Theater at Halifax, Nova Scotia at 12 years old. And the story, the adage goes, right? Like walked literally 15 miles to work and back no matter the weather to go be an usher.
and collect a few dollars. And she never stopped working. My mom passed 10 months and a week ago. I segue because I have to tell the story because it's so beautiful to me. And it's so indicative of who she is and therefore who I am. And I can go back to my childhood in a moment. But my mom had pulmonary cystic kidney disease, beat cancer multiple times, had kidney transplant, survivor liver surgery,
The traditional Western medical system did not do well by my mom. Let me just say that. And so she slipped and had an accident and went into the hospital, got COVID and never came out. And so I went for the last week when she had slipped into a coma and she was still breathing. And the first day that I got there, the doctor said, say your goodbyes tonight.
And I said to him, you haven't met my mom. And he was like, I'm sorry, sir. This is what I do for a living. And I was like, you know, your bedside manner sucks, first of all. And secondly, get out of the room. My mom stayed alive for another six days off respirator, off any other support. And the doctors were literally defied by her. And that's just who she was.
And so how that informed me is that exact same kind of story, but work ethic. I've got, we could do three podcasts on my father alone. And so when those are your two people, regardless of the struggles we had and me being thrown out of the house from very young age and, and, you know, struggling myself, they are honestly two of the greatest people that you could ever imagine, let alone exhibiting resilience.
And so I had no excuse. What's your excuse when these are your guiding lights? It's like, yeah, you are going to be fearful. You're going to be this, but you have food and a roof over your head and you have this big ass brain attached to you and this huge heart. What are you going to do with it? What are you going to choose to do with it would be the prompt.
And very little else. I had very little other direction. And so I wasn't great in school. Like many of our friends who'd veer to the creative, I was smart but couldn't stay still. And I always just knew from my family, from my parents, from their influence, from Nova Scotians, Maritimers in their hearts, watching them exhibit, I copied them. I was like, I think I want to live a life this way.
And my aunt who passed, who's a mentor, I was just back at a bed and breakfast that she ran standing up front of it a couple of weeks ago in Halifax, would literally stop to every single person on the streets she saw. She had stray cats in her house. God forbid a bird went down because that was coming home with us. It was all... And she was a scratch cook. So she taught me how to cook and she would go into our cupboards. I'm like, there's nothing there. And she would whip up something incredible. And so when you see these people literally creating magic and exhibiting empathy as a
True life, like North Star. That's what they do day in and day out. It's not for show. It's not be nice to service people because somebody's around on a date. It is who they are.
That becomes your DNA or it is in your DNA already. These are my family members, but that becomes the way you operate. So scared Mark became angry. Mark became resilient Mark. And I'm always thinking of then my mom's name's tattooed right here on my neck. My first restaurant was named after her. You know, it truly is a sign of I'm not doing this for show. You didn't have your obstacles removed. I think a lot of parents these days think if they can save their kids, any kind of unhappiness, they're,
any kind of grief when it's obstacles that build character. What was your first kind of altruistic public move forward to help people, to feed people? Was there a moment in young Mark, were you a teenager? Were you in your
20s where you went, I am going to do something for this community. Do you remember what it was? It was the opposite. Okay. It was super interesting. And like my teen years, et cetera, I had been so indoctrinated by capitalism. And let me say that without being a weird meme, I mean that in the truest sense of it.
At that point in your life, you are so taught that the only way to survive is to disseminate the competition, right? Decimate rather. You have to win at all costs. And what does winning look like? It means that you get to have all the things that you desire or told you desire. And I think by the time I was about 33 or 34 years old, I had more than I could have ever imagined.
more money, I had a beautiful home, I had all of the friends and was surrounded by everything I wanted, and I was absolutely miserable. Not because of the quality of my friends or my current wife or they were amazing. I was the problem because I had veered so far away from what nine and 10 year old Mark cared about and loved.
that I didn't even know anymore. I spent my days literally in meetings talking about the price of beef, dealing with HR folks. Because at that point, I think we had like 300 or 400 employees. It was so unfulfilling. And everything that I was promised by capitalism would fulfill me actually hollowed me out. So how did you change it? What did you do? Blew it all up. Blew it up. Blew it all up. I
I can say very clearly that, you know, in 2011, 12, 13, I had a nervous breakdown.
And it was it was people think a nervous breakdown just happens and it's what a day. No, it goes on and on and on. I was disassociative for 10 to 12 hours a day. I was just going through the motions of everything. I was deeply depressed, medicating with alcohol, medicating with drugs, the highest functioning alcoholic you've ever met, literally doing 16 hours a day, you know, seven days a week and still doing media constantly, constantly.
And then bottomed out, made giant mistakes and had a look at what I was doing and said, I need to stop talking to people for a bit. And it took me a while. I dug into my own education. I started educating myself again. I realized I had a thirst for knowledge and structure and how to help myself and help people around me. And sort of by 2016, 2017, I decided to get sober.
And that's something you and I share. I decided to get stone sober, not kind of sober, not Cali sober, but like all the way, put it down. What is the best you could ever feel sober? And that's six and a half years. And that's truly when I say like all the other stuff that was happening with impact between 2011 and 2016, 17, we were doing a great job. My teams are incredible. My people are amazing.
Honest to God, I count my blessings for every single person that I'm surrounded by every single day, genuinely. But my own change came as soon as I was able to look at why I was doing all the things I was doing. And those traumas were big, dark, terrifying, heavy, real, and faced them one after another, therapy, all of the things, and I'm still very deep in it.
It's a great feeling, sobriety. Isn't your timing, you two, the same? Six, seven years, isn't it? I'm just going into year eight. August the 13th, I'll be eight years sober this summer. And I would not be on the planet now. That part. Yeah, there's just no way. I was hospitalized many times for my heart. That's right. I had these, I wouldn't call them heart attacks. They called them episodes, I guess. Yeah.
But, yeah, I find you so incredibly inspiring, Mark, just because you actually are impeccable with your word and you do the things you're going to say. Even when people are thinking, that's never going to happen, Brand. You can't, you're not going to pull that off. You can't feed, you know, that many. And then you do it.
But I like that because you don't come out swinging this club like this aggression. I find you this peaceful warrior. And it's amazing what we can get done through encouraging people, cheering them on. Because so much of this world works, the beatings will cease when the morale improves. And I don't know how anyone expects that kind of a system to work. No.
We know it doesn't. It's kind of crazy that, you know, a guy like who just described his former life spent a full day yesterday with Emma, who you just told us about, right? That's such a flip. And you're so much happier now by the sounds of it anyway. Oh my God. Like we look at the Dalai Lama, okay? We look at people who walk with Buddha or Tao or any of the other Hindu, like we watch folks and you're like, I can't access what that joy and peace looks like.
I don't know what it looks like because I've been bred specifically to be part of a machine that makes people rich. I can't say it any plainer than that, right? It's like, what are you bred to do? From our schooling, our literal K through 12, from primary school through, we are taught to regurgitate, to show up, the bells dictate where we move, right?
That's how it works. And if you're not part of that system, God forbid you end up like somebody on the downtown east side because that's how it happens. Those threats of consistent violence in our language, the bullying, the privilege, the insanity, and you travel. And we've all traveled all over the world. I lived in Nigeria when I was very young and it changed my life a lot. I lived in Lagos and Wari in Port Harcourt. My dad was working there.
And when I saw folks with absolutely nothing happier than I'd ever been a day in my life, I was like something went off in me. I was like, what is going on here? Like, you don't have anything. You don't even have a shirt, maybe. Like, how are you so happy? Like, I was in the pursuit of joy my entire life. And the most joyful I would be is around children, around Emma.
You know why Emma doesn't have an agenda? Yeah. Emma doesn't need or want anything from me aside from some good jokes and some knife skills. And a chance. I mean, Emma gave me a chance. It's the other way around. My dear friend, Ash McLeod, it's his 10-year anniversary with my organization yesterday.
managing director of a better life foundation, our charity here in Vancouver. This guy is, the glass is overflowing full with positivity. Like I got to tell you at one point in our organization, the CRA froze our accounts because somebody wrote an article about a lawsuit I was in with Cisco. It was all this big mess. He helped me roll ATMs into Savon so we could take cash only for a few weeks so we could pay everybody. And he did it with a giant smile on his face.
Like this is the type of person that's around. Now, that sort of love, that sort of joy is what we're trying to access. So when we're surrounding ourselves with the apathy or the news or the socials, to what end? And you're right, Burke. Like, of course, I feel better in the actual work with hands on tools instead of wildly pontificating about it. Like it's it feels good. And how do you want to spend this like super precious life that we have with these very few moments that we have left?
What are you going to do with them? Accumulate money for what? Like, yes, you need it. Yes, you need it to get by, but there's so many options in front of people and we're just told they aren't options. I think people forget how great it feels to help somebody else. It's been probably so long since they've been in service that they really do forget. When people do a good deed, I apologize for my dog, Mark. I love your dog. When people do a good deed, something as simple as...
Seeing a guy on the side of the road in the rain trying to put a tire on and you actually go, oh God, I need this like a hole in the head, but I'm going to pull over. The least I can do is get him to a gas station or give him a hand. It's just something very simple. People, those simple acts lift people's spirit. It does something to their biology. And it's so rare that people will stop in their busy lives just to lend a hand.
what keeps us, what inhibits us from activating our kindness. And kindness is a word that is so shuttled around politically now. I don't even like how it sounds coming out of my mouth because it's always turned against you. It's the word kindness and being kind has been very politicized and very weaponized, I think.
Does that make any sense? Totally. Oh, yeah. And they'll repost a tweet that I said that was very disparaging, you know, from nine years ago that I told some guy to screw his eye socket. Yes. And... I hope he did. And I meant it. I'm just like... And I keep bringing these people up because I guess I'm looking at you, Mark, and Sarah probably is too. How do we...
deal with them. You said just to kind of put your blinders on and don't give them your time. But for the people that are so discouraged and feel so kind of beat up by what social media does, like what do we do? Maybe the question is how do you inspire them? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Thank you for turning that around. How do we inspire those people? I feel like I also jumped past the question earlier. So I'm going to tie the two of them together, which is essentially like stop talking and just keep doing.
People are so happy to run their mouths. And when you say people like, Mark, you can't do that. Literally 16 businesses deep, every single one, people are like, you're insane. That's never going to work. How could you possibly think that's going to work? I'm like, that is your perception. That's your perception. Like, isn't it wild that you think your perception is the only truth? Like, that's so crazy. Like, not only is it insanely arrogant and egotistical, it's just stupid.
Do you think that you know everything? Like I walked through the world with such curiosity and I'm happy to be wrong pretty consistently because I take a lot of risk. I'm reading this book by Gladwell right now. Malcolm Gladwell, one of my favorite authors. I'm reading Bomber Mafia right now, right? In this Bomber Mafia, quick anecdote, it's talking about the Air Force's inception.
And it was literally a group of people who had to break away from the army to create this thing, essentially aviation in a way that could target very critical points within a war so they didn't have to keep killing millions and millions of people on the ground. And the whole part behind it was like, we've got this idea that we could get a plane and we could adjust the plane to a way that we could drop a bomb in a pickle barrel.
from 30 miles up or whatever it is. And people were like, no, you can't. And they're like, no, no, no, we totally can. And they're like, and they created this entire movement and energy behind it. Bombing is not a cosign here. Let me be very clear with my language.
but how many lives were saved in that particular thing from guerrilla warfare and on the ground warfare. But people are like, you're absolutely insane. This will never work. When I said, I'm going to create a business that's going to take the proceeds from selling hamburgers and all of these things, and then help feed people in the neighborhood and all the stuff, people were like, how many hamburgers are you going to sell? I'm like, I don't know a lot. And they're like,
But they were like, you're crazy. And then we're doing 500 covers a day. And Guy Fieri pulls up in the Camaro and we're the first diners, drivers and dives destination in Canada. The ideas matter. The intention matters. And you have to push through all this stuff. And we're so terrified of looking stupid, being called stupid or quote unquote failing in something that we do that we won't try anything. And my push to everybody is remember when you were a kid?
That nine and 10 year old, while he was terrified, tried everything. He BMX up dirt, like literally up gravel, fell, skinned his knee, broke, ran through the forest, did everything until he figured it out.
And that's the same way that I approach business and entrepreneurship is like, what is the worst thing that could happen? And my answer is I could go bartend at the airport for 150 grand a year. That's my bottom. I have those skills. I have that connectivity. I know how to make a great drink. I'm a good conversationalist. The worst thing that happens to Mark Brand is he ends up at the Fairmont at YVR making Manhattans for Floridians. I'll do it. That's pretty good. It's pretty good.
Right? Exactly. So why not take the risk? And why not inspire other people to take the risk? I think as we push forward and we see movements, movements matters. Energy matters. It all matters. And when people are like, that's insane. Like, cool, I will show you. And then you can see it. And then when you have a crazy idea, maybe you'll just try it.
And if we kept trying things, maybe the system where we're shipping horses from Canada to Japan to be food or the system where we literally oppress the people whose land this is or the system where we continue indoctrinate fake history, maybe those systems change.
Because we open up and we become aware and we become awake and we care enough to risk our own livelihood and our own privilege to do these things. I know your mic is mounted, but that's a mic drop. Mic drop. I don't know. Something like that. Well, there's just so many fear-based decisions that people make. And you talked about that. You know, you grow up with this idea of capitalism and getting ahead and annihilating everybody around you so that what you do is seen and what you do is heard and what you do and
I'm in a job and you're in a job where everything I do is about collaborating with people. I can't do anything by myself. I can't really play music. I mean, I could sit and play my guitar a bit. It would kind of suck if people had to sit through that for two hours. No, I've sat through it and no, it doesn't. So we're not doing that today. It's all about collaboration. I guess I do have a question here. How has art and music, because I know you're such a music guy.
You have to be well in order to help others. I do know that, Mark Brand. You have to be well so that you can keep helping people. And I know that art's a big part of your world. Can you talk about how music affects you and how you use it in your life? Definitely. And I've used your music in my life, as has every single person who's listening. So I think if I can be so bold, what you create in the world and what you've created for us in the world is a library of just beautiful reflection.
you know, and if you're listening to this, go to the interview that I do with Jan, please like immediately afterwards and listen to it because it's incredibly special. And it talks about exactly what I'm going to respond to now, but in a much deeper and what I'm going to say is more meaningful way. So I was a DJ. I am a DJ. Uh,
I'm a DJ in the truest sense of the form. I play real records. I play vinyl. I'm sitting in front of my turntables right now. This is my DJ setup where I still stream on Twitch and play 45s. I play seven-inch records. That's my weapon of choice. It has been forever. It's incredibly difficult to do. It makes me so happy to do well.
And I did it for a living when I lived in Australia between sort of 22 years old until about 28, 30 years old. It was my lifeblood. It was what I created in the world in Australia, which was to create nights of inclusion where Japanese break dancers and Australian accented MCs
And everybody in between could come and collaborate and jam while I set the sort of tone and hosted. And we took over clubs throughout the city that were unknown. And we flyered the streets and we hit people. And because I had this accent, I knew I could leverage the absolute hell out of it. Right? So they were like, wait a sec, you're North American. You are the authority on hip hop. I'm like, absolutely right. Little did they know I'm from Halifax, Nova Scotia. Right? Like...
Might as well be from New York as far as they're concerned, right? So I would use that to bring up artists that I cared so much about that I would hear their music and I would hear their struggle, but their accents were Australian and people were like, Australian rap's never going anywhere. And we'd play shows 40, 50, 60 people.
I played a stadium to 75,000 people with one of those groups called the Hilltop Hoods, some of my best friends in the world who are the third highest selling artists of all time in Australia in their own accent now. We opened for Eminem out there and I got to watch them do this thing. Dreams matter. Music matters. And when people can see themselves in your art form, my art form may be cooking. It may be my impact work. It could be my DJ sets. It could be the podcast when I have you or Gabor or whoever else on. That's all art.
All of it is art. And so if you don't have a place to put your pain and put your like release all of that and also create the container where people are feeling the same, it's everything. It's a conversation with community in all those art forms. Definitely. So music is, I mean, I'm literally sitting next to hundreds of 45s right now, excitedly so, because it gives me, people do yoga, people meditate. I like to do a stretch now and again, but I really like to play music. I like to dance. I like to sing.
I like to do all those things. It's important. I think during COVID, a lot of good things did come out of it. A lot of horrible things came out of it, but a lot of good things. And I think our connection to art and how art is valuable to human beings on a day-to-day, really ordinary basis. So everyone was streaming everything. There was those jokes, well, I've streamed everything on Netflix now. And so when they got a sense, well, that's art, that's thousands and thousands and thousands of people making art.
writing scripts, acting, putting music on it, telling you stories to entertain you for two and a half years. There's a lot of vitriol and there's a lot of noise made by people that are like, why did they spend so much money on a statue downtown that most of us hate? And it's always that. But then if you were to single those people out and just sit them down and
And look at all their discs in their car, the music that they listen to. A paint color on the guy's garage or art is there. It's on this table that my computer is sitting on. Somebody made this damn thing. Definitely. So it's art. So people that don't believe in art, I feel like they're missing out
Maybe they don't believe in it, but they don't acknowledge it. And they don't realize that the shirt they have on, the shoes that are on their feet, the glasses that they're wearing, the guy that cuts their hair is an artist. Absolutely. They go in, they like keep it short, the sides, give me a little thing on top. And it's art. It sure is. Why are people so afraid to call it what it is? Because they don't understand it because they haven't been comfortable enough to express their own creativity.
Right. This is I tell you, I do consulting in the design thinking methodology. I did a year at the Stanford D School. I taught at USC and I taught innovation dynamics and design thinking a lot of jargon to say, how do you get real research done? And where we start with is usually play.
So I've seen grown CEO, white men, cis men playing with Lego and Play-Doh in these rooms where they pay $15,000 essentially a day to be in to rediscover their creativity. And that's the answer. When people feel like they can't actually, well, nobody cares about my art is essentially where that's coming from, right? So there's an energy underneath of like, I did the stained glass thing and tried to sell it to Flea Mark once and somebody laughed at me and so therefore art's stupid, right? It comes from this really weird place that like,
I am scared to do my thing, therefore that's it. And that's where a lot of criticism comes from, was this just place of misunderstanding. And what I'll share with your audience is, I often think about the world in multiple dimensions.
And I think about me at 19. I think about me at 32. And would I be able to have this conversation with you at 32? Absolutely not. So the person who is coming at me on Twitter is me at 32. It's really that simple for me. Can I imagine that person's plight? I can. I was that person. I still, when I get triggered, can be that person.
That's still in me. And so can I have empathy for them? I can, but they still don't get any of my time. I can have empathy for them and move past it. But you can understand it and not let it steal your wellness. Period. Because I have you in my circle. I have Wendy Williams-Watt in my circle. I have Sarah Burke in my circle. I have hundreds of people that I admire, look up to, and share things.
While we differ on opinions, we can argue, we can have real important discourse to learn with each other because it's safe to do so. I would rather do that with you than again, Bob197432. I don't give a shit about Bob. I care that Jan Arden's like, hey, I don't know, Mark, about this latest thing that you're doing. It sounds a little bit more like X, Y, Z. I want to hear that because I trust and respect you. And I'll be like, cool. Well, I thought about it this way. And you'd be like, yeah, but did you think about this?
And I got blind spots like everybody else. I would rather learn and evolve, not from strangers and bomb throwers. That's not helpful. It's like, have you got something to say that could actually help me do the job that I'm trying to do or be a better person? Because if so, I'm wide open. You don't have to answer this, but I really want your take on it. Okay. Because I feel like
there's, you know, pockets of people out there that, and we've really seen it the last four or five years, they'll pick an issue. They'll just really judge people, whether it was reproductive rights that we saw kind of that whole thing happen. It's still happening. But it's, they've almost picked up and they've moved on now to trans and non-binary people and
you know, drag queens, drag kings reading libraries and stuff. And I just wanted to get your take on, because, you know, Vancouver is such a positive community. It's a huge global phenomenon. Vancouver has a lot to be proud of because they're a supportive community. Why are people so mad about that?
Great question. Because you're on the ground seeing everything. Yeah. I mean, it's the exact same reason as the art response, but I'll get a little more nuanced with it, right? Which is people are threatened and they're also isolated.
So they feel threatened by different or other. I always say to folks who come at this, particularly at trans or gay issues, I'm like, are you potentially not the sexuality that you're claiming to be? And I'm just asking that genuinely because are you closeted and afraid?
Because there's no other reason for you to react like this. Like, this makes no sense. Nobody of a different sexuality is coming into your house and trying to do it. You're afraid of people in dresses, not people with AR-15s. Are you okay? What are you eating in the morning? Like, Red Bull cereal? Like, what is happening for you that you can't differentiate between an actual issue, a real issue where kids are being slaughtered every single day,
And another issue, which is this person decided that they are two-spirited, which is one of the oldest designations on the planet as we've been walking, or that they've decided that they don't know yet. How does that threaten you? That's so crazy. They're using their children virtually as their shields. You're indoctrinating our children. And now we're seeing all these
All these legislators in America. People say, well, that's not happening in Canada, but I do worry about it happening here. You should. Right now we have a government that supports female reproductive health. Can we call them a government? Is that just a little bit too generous of us? Next episode, we'll get into that. I just feel like...
They're putting their kids forward. They never talk about how it's affecting them. It's always what's happening to their children and in schools. And I always want to say there's nothing in the world that any parent or any government or any peer group is ever going to do to change an individual's mind of what their sexuality and what their identity is. It cannot be shifted. It cannot be moved. It cannot be hypnotized. Nobody can manipulate that. It's not a club. You don't get...
a badge. There's no one. I couldn't take any of us and sitting in a room and talk Mark into being
anything other than what he is. So does that message not get through? It doesn't. You're not going to change their minds. It's a fear of losing control. It's a complete fear of losing control in the systems that have served the privilege. And so I responded almost jokingly prior because it makes me so angry at the same time. And I love this kind of energy between us. But to be very, very serious about it, it is a systemic fear of losing control, a control that nobody has.
And it's this control theory of if I can continue to oppress and uphold the system of oppression by wielding this stick of oppression and showing it works, then people will respect my authority. And it's a white cis man's world.
This is how this works. We've decided to A, B, C, D, E, whatever the legislation of the day is. I had the incredible pleasure of having Kitty Colbert or Catherine Colbert, the lead defense attorney for Roe versus Wade for the last 30, 40 years on Better.
And you want to talk about Tiger by a tail. I had to be very, very, very careful. And it was so beautiful. This one individual, you have many millions of lives that she has saved by standing up in this place. So I think my response is to say, use the privilege and power you have forever.
Don't get into cat and dog fights online. Really ask questions and hold space. It sucks because we shouldn't have to do the heavy lifting as people who are on the right side of history, but we do. That's the job. It's always been that way. Don't begrudge it. Just do the job. When I'm at the cocktail party and somebody says, you help hobos, I'm like, actually, the preferred language is unhoused. And that's a wild thing to say. Did you watch The Littlest Hobo Grown Up? Where did you even get that language?
And instead of attacking or making somebody feel stupid, make it light and have a discussion. If I turn that guy's head around and he's worth a hundred million bucks, maybe he changes something. Now, should I have to do that lifting? No, he should absolutely be doing that lifting for himself. Am I going to do it anyway? Yep. That's my choice. And that's my power. And so if I choose to do that or you choose to do that, we choose to do that around these issues, getting angry with people shuts them immediately down.
We go straight into trigger and we stop listening to each other. If my partner and I have a disagreement, I shut down, she shuts down. Nothing can be communicated. If I'm in the workplace, somebody feels fearful of me. You can't, as you said, berate people into submission or learning.
No. You have to show them away gently. So do the thing. For me, it's create opportunity that's gentle and kind to come to the neighborhood, learn to cook, whatever it may be in a way that's very easy and accessible for people who genuinely want to help. But if you saw their social media, you wouldn't think so. So we got to create these opportunities. And also people suck sometimes. That's the essence of better. And we should say congratulations on season two, which just launched. Thank you so much. I'm so excited about it. Mark, Brand, I'm
I'm telling you, if you haven't subscribed to Better, we're going to link it here, but you can easily find it and hit that button.
and listen along and learn and be enriched in your life. And we can all do better. God knows, I wake up every day and think I can do better than I did yesterday. It's a great feeling. We've got miles to go before we sleep. It has been such a pleasure having you on the show today, Mark. I could sit here and talk to you for five hours. Thanks for all you do. Thanks for inspiring us. And thanks for being vulnerable. I knew this was going to be a fantastic conversation. And I
I just, I'm very grateful for your time. Sarah and I are both just like, I hate it to even ask questions. I could have just, sometimes I'm like, I think I'll just let him go. I'll just let him talk for an hour. Don't do that. That's, that's a deadly recipe. And let me reflect the privilege and the honor as always. Um, you showed up for us and folks don't know how hard you showed up for us in my organizations during the pandemic.
And our first phone call, I'll never forget, I was standing in a backyard in Los Angeles. We had just done a bunch of work with the LA County food system and school system. And you and I got on a 15 minute phone call that went for almost two hours. I mean, at one point we were talking about moon charts or something. I think it was the best. And so it's never stopped for us and I'm so grateful.
Let me just say this. Anytime the phone rings or the text rings, I'm right here for you. And I'm really proud to have been on the show. Likewise, I'm sure. And look after yourself out there. We are cheering you on. Sarah and I are cheering you on. And all our listeners are going to be absolutely uplifted and hopeful. So don't lose hope, right, Mark? And we can be better. Yeah. We're surrounded by love. We're made of it. Focus on the people that give it to you.
and leave the rest of it in the wind as you figure out what you want to do with your life. It's really important. Thank you, Mark Brand. Lots of love, you both. Well, that was, I don't even know what to say. It was just such an amazing, inspiring conversation. He's prolific. And the time went by so quickly. Listen, if you have any questions or any comments about Mark Brand, don't hesitate to go on our socials. We're on Facebook, we're on Twitter, we're on Instagram. You'll find us, Jan Arden Podcast.
Caitlin Green is going to be with me next week. You're going to be in Nashville with your boyfriend. Yeah. Eating barbecue and listening to country music. I'm jealous. You're going to have a great time. We're going to go see Mellencamp at the Ryman. Oh my gosh. So perfect. We'll tell you more when we're back. Make sure you go to Tootsie's. I will for you. Just go into Tootsie's and have a nice cold Coors Light or something. Sing one of your songs in the wrong key, right? Yeah. Sing one of my songs in the wrong key.
No, have a Bud Light. And you'll know why I've said that. Have a Bud Light for me, will you? Support the Bud Light people. Mark Brand, thank you, thank you, thank you. You are just wonderful and amazing and charming and smart and all those things. We'll see you next week. Don't forget to subscribe. Give us a review. Give us some stars. It helps people find the podcast and it just gets the word out there. We'll see you next time, folks. Toodaloo.
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