Best of Show #1 - Musical Moments
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Hi there and welcome to the Jan Arden Podcast. Boy, do we have some special stuff for you this month. We are doing some best of.

We have had the opportunity to talk to so many brilliant guests over the last couple of years. And I'll tell you what, even going back through these myself and listening to some of these interviews, I was like, wow, that was so fantastic. So we're going to share those with you today. Right off the top, folks, musical moments, obviously a topic near and dear to my heart.

Who do we have for you? The incomparable Anne-Marie. She has had such a lifelong career in music and led us, all of us, anyone who's in the music, has followed in the footsteps of Anne-Marie. She was one of the very first people to do Vegas. Anyway, she's going to tell you all about it. Tegan and Sarah. What can we say about Tegan and Sarah? Authenticity. They are such champions for the LGBTQ plus two-spirit community. And

They're talking about their imperfections. Max Kerman from the Arkells. What a great interview this was. And he brings a lot of insight to the lack of glamour that is in the music business when you start out. And of course, Sarah McLachlan. My nemesis on the Jan Show. The impact of Lilith Fair. Who doesn't remember Lilith Fair? Sitting there in the grass seeing all your favorite female artists. Why?

What a resurgence of female singer-songwriters that single-handedly Sarah McLachlan was responsible for. Here we go. The very first episode of our special summertime episodes, Music Icons, The Musical Odyssey. Enjoy. I remember, for instance, meeting Perry Como. God! He was a childhood friend.

hero of mine. I watched his show all the time and I remember meeting him and what a lovely man he was. And I thought, you know, he's just exactly the same way as he is on television.

And so he wasn't duping anybody. That was wonderful. And I also had, you mentioned people, Rosemary Clooney. Oh, just the best. Yeah, she was the best big fan of mine because she used to tell me that I hit the notes right in the middle. And I know exactly what she means too. Right in the middle of that sweet spot. And you do, Ann. Yeah, I do. And it's part of being a perfectionist.

You know, I have to do it exactly right or I'm not happy.

No, you really are one of the best live singers I've ever heard. And I can say that, folks, because I've stood in a studio, you know, two feet away from you and listened to you sing. And your daughter, Dawn Langstroth, it must be genetics, but she is one of the other few people in this world that you and Karen Carpenter, Anne,

are two of the singers that I've heard sing that are flawless in live performance. You're not ever out of key, and neither is your daughter Dawn. No, she's not.

She just nails it every time. She was, I mean, I know we're talking about you, but I've always been such a fan of her and her unbelievable talent. And it's funny, she just walked away from it. And maybe it had everything to do with, like, I'm not going on the road for 20 years. No way. And she's such a brilliant painter. Yeah, that was part of it. But part of it was also...

people asking her about me. I mean, it didn't matter, didn't matter where she went. It seemed as though, um, they were only interested in me and that's,

that's no good you can't you can't spend your life doing that no she found that very hard because and luckily she's also a very talented artist so she she painted one of her paintings in my house and I know it is one of my pride possessions and I have to say anyone that walks into my place points at Dawn's painting go what what is that is that like a

I mean, they always name all these famous, and I'm like, that's Don Langstroth.

And, uh, it, I know quite a few people that own her stuff, but anyway, I, um, I'm just bringing up this story quickly because every career I think has moments when reality and fantasy kind of collide. A big moment for me was when I did your charity golf tournament, you invited me to actually stay at your place and I stayed at your place in Thornhill and then golf in the tournament. But I, for me, I,

I'll never forget, and I tell this story all the time to people, that that was the moment where I thought I'd made something of myself, was to go into your spare bedroom and be like, I'm golfing in Anne's tournament, and she just made me dinner, and we had a glass of wine, and I just couldn't believe it. I was phoning my friends, and Steve wouldn't believe where I am. Do you have one of those moments where you felt like, wow, this is weird?

Well, I remember playing at the, I don't know which hotel it was in Las Vegas, and looking out my window, and on the marquee was my name, and right across the street was Frank Sinatra on the marquee. And I went, oh, my God. But I've also had moments where...

And again, in Las Vegas, primarily because that was the place I was most scared to play. And I can still remember people standing as I'm coming back for an encore. I'm going, what the hell? What the heck is going on here? Because I didn't want to play Las Vegas. I hated it. Las Vegas was hard.

And I mean, you were probably, but once again, you know, you're one of the first people, you know, certainly women to have that billboard, to have that ranking down there where they thought, here's a woman that can do this room. And as you and I both know, you know, Vegas has changed so much as far as entertainment goes over the years. But I mean, just to go and forge that,

that whole idea that this works. And you must have felt that pressure too of like, I got to fill this room every night. Well, it's that. But it's also people are coming from everywhere. Everywhere. When you play a venue in a town, people have something in common. But you've got them coming from all over the world. And they're not necessarily coming to Las Vegas to see you. They're coming to see the shows on the strip.

So you they're sitting there going, OK, show us. So it's an added pressure to try and pull this group and make them a cohesive group as an audience. Yeah, because, well, you were an international artist and maybe that was hard to kind of come to terms with, but you were...

really one of Canada's very first international artists. I mean, I know, you know, you, Leonard Cohen, Joni, Gordon Lightfoot. There was a handful of, there was a handful of you guys that really for 20 years, Anne, that's what we had. I have never met a singer in Canada, another girl singer that has not listed you as an influence, a big influence in their lives.

And that, you just don't get that anymore. Like, I always think, okay, you're retired. I know there's so many huge, huge, big, iconic people that are retiring now. Do you think there's anybody coming up, you know, up through the ranks that is going to have that kind of 30, 40, 50-year career, Anne? Or do we not create those anymore? I don't think we do. Yeah. I think things are quite different. And also, you can't keep track.

There are so many who can keep track of, you know, who is that? And every time I turn on the radio or the television, there's somebody new and there are a lot of talented people out there, but I just say not developing careers. No, they're not.

Look at these shows you see, these competitions. They expect somebody of 15 to have everything. You have to be able to dance, sing, pretend that when I was 15, I used to stand rimrod straight and would hardly look around. I mean, Canada, the whole country watched me grow up as a performer.

And so I was able to, that was my training ground. But now you see a kid 15 and they do it all. And I think the advantage too, and I'm sure you'll agree with me, I find that a lot of them sound the same. Like when people hear your voice, and this happens like very seldom in a generation of singers, I know your voice in one note. I know that's you.

So when we're hearing some of these, and I'm not faulting them, you're right, they are very gifted singers, but the tone, that sound that's special to you, that you hear a song on the radio, you don't need to call the radio station and say, who is that? You know them.

Yes, well, see, I know your voice, and I know Bonnie Raitt's voice. Katie's. Katie's voice, yeah. Yeah, for sure. But I think that I wonder what this generation of young people, I wonder who their heroes will be and what their influences will be. We only have a couple minutes left, but I would be remiss not to ask you about Doris Day because I love you talking about her, and I know that you wrote her a letter recently.

like a fan letter and she wrote you back. - Yes, she did. She called me. - She called you? - She called me on the phone and she said, "This is Doris." And I just about dropped it. Anyway, we arranged to meet and I spent the day with her in Carmel. - Oh, Ann. - I wanted to be Doris Day when I was growing up. - Well, get in line.

Oh, well, that's what I mean about those moments. I mean, that's how I felt about being at your place. And just so you know, I mean, maybe I've never told you that, but to be like riding around the golf cart and that's what it felt like to me. So you were my Doris Day, I guess that's how we could put it. What a great memory. And she lived a good long life with a lot of different things.

Yes, she did. Very much so. You bowed out like a lady and had such a rich, purpose-filled life. And I hope that you're enjoying yourself now. And I know we've got to wrap things up. God, this went by fast. There were so many things I wanted to ask you, but I'm glad that you've had time now just to get up and swim and golf and visit with your friends and see the kids and grandkids now too. So what a special time in your life. I'm really glad for you.

Thank you. And it means everything to me that you did the show today. Oh, it's my pleasure. We are so excited to welcome another new sponsor, our friends at Cove Soda. Have I pestered Cove enough to come and join us here at the Jan Arden Podcast? I love them so much. They are Canadian, first of all. They are a natural, certified organic, zero sugar soda, which includes, get this, one big

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Tegan and Sarah are, I'm not going to launch into their Wikipedia accolades. They started a band like in the 90s and they have done so many albums. They're like, they're on my heels, people. Anyway, Tegan and Sarah are here with us today. Their new book, High School, which I have read

More than once, I have flipped through just to make sure I was reading the actual words that I thought were written down. It comes out in paperback. It's out in paperback. High school is out in paperback. So Tegan and Sarah, join us. Hi, you guys. Hi, Jan. Hi. Where are you coming to me from? Tegan, you are in... I'm in Vancouver and Sarah's in North Vancouver. Oh, well, you guys are conspiring each other. I just didn't know if you were still home or traveling the world or...

Imagine we're traveling the world. We're like, you know, it's weird. I don't know what's happening here, but we put a hundred city tour on and we're just out there. I mean, no way, no way.

We'll get back to it. I feel very confident about that. So paperback is a pretty big deal. It almost feels like the official release of a book because I feel like suddenly your audience is now, the price point comes down. I mean, let's be honest. And a lot of people fall asleep reading and often injure themselves whilst dropping hardback books on their foreheads. Right?

I agree. I would often wait for a paperback. So I think, I don't think you're wrong here. We definitely hope that there's, you know, if there was an audience that was waiting for the paperback, this is your time, audience, who's waiting for a paperback. This also feels like it's even the redesign of the book, you know, the intended, the sort of, well, the intention of redesigning the book was to also draw in a different audience. And I feel like the, you know, the paperback,

This is, I think, an opportunity to pop off the shelf a little bit. It's kind of got like a bit more of a youthful look to it. It's not as, you know, sophisticated, serious, Tegan and Sarah wrote a book looking type of object, which, you know, was strategic and we're hoping to reach more people with the paperback. Oh, you absolutely will. I mean, I want to dig in right away because I think people are a bit perplexed as to how two people write books.

a memoir. I hold the pen and then Tegan holds my arm and then we just see, it's like, it's like we, it's like doing a Ouija board, but like, we just see what happens. And that's how I had sex in high school with, you know, that's sort of what I had to go through. So, I mean, obviously you guys,

must have discovered that the same experiences that you had were frigging such different perspectives. You'd be like, that is not what happened, Tegan. So I'm curious, when you started comparing and putting these stories together, it must have been a bit surprising as to how the perspectives were so askew. Yeah, I think, well, going back to the beginning part of your question, it was definitely a case of

while we were writing the proposal, we wrote in our own voices, which was our agent said, just write your own stories. We'll just get like six or seven chapters written and then go sell the proposal. And, um, in our meetings with almost all the publishers we met with, they loved that format. So we didn't have any conversations about how to do it. We just, I think we fell into it thankfully really easily by, by writing the proposal in that format. Um, but as you were just, um, leading up to, uh,

when we kind of got the first... Basically, once we'd sold the proposal, what Sarah and I did was we created a timeline for grade 10, 11, and 12. And then we put the stories we wanted to tell on the timeline. And then we basically just were like, okay, see you in a month. And Sarah and I both went separately to write grade 10. And when we swapped chapters, there were definitely some...

where I was like, that did not happen. And I had so many journals and notes and like I had proof, Sarah, jokingly, which I don't know if this is an appropriate joke. She's shaking her head. But well, Sarah would call me the Brett Kavanaugh of our band because I kept extensive notes, like a calendar, but with like no personality at all. It was literally like,

went to movie with, you know, Naomi and Alex went here with this person. So I was like, that did not happen. I have the proof that did not happen that year. It happened in grade 11. So there was definitely some like timeline issues in Sarah's stories initially, but it,

Our editors right away jumped in and said, don't edit each other. Don't critique each other's timeline. Like, we like the idea that this is memoir. This is memory. Your memories are different. Your memory of certain experiences are different. Your, you know, insular experience, Sarah's coming out was very different than yours. Your shame around homophobia, like those kinds of things. Lean into it. Lean into it. So we did.

I think this is such a battle cry. And, you know, you're talking about rite of passage in high school. High school is difficult enough as it is, you

you know, with sexuality. And then you throw in the queer aspect of it, where you're trying to navigate how you feel about yourselves. And what I found so interesting when I was reading high school, and I highly recommend it because I freaking laughed my ass off so many times, because I was just like, oh my God, these knuckleheads. But getting back to that of

The earnestness of talking about your sexuality and how it was just kind of surprising to both of you guys. And the fact that you didn't know. People think, oh, they're twins. They share everything. They know what's going on. That was a part of your story that really surprised me was the discretion you had between the two of you for a while. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and that's, I think, you know, that...

significant part of wanting to tell this story was to sort of untether, you know, the two of us from each other. I think a lot of people, you know, we can, we talk about this all the time. Every time we put out an album, I mean, we talk about what are the differences? What are the similarities? What do we share with each other? Do we have the same brain and we just pass it back and forth, you know, those types of things. And, um, and I think,

But I think, you know, one of the most significant pieces of information, you know, when we're figuring out in adolescence, sometimes it's in adulthood. Sometimes it's when we're, you know, over the hill and on our way out. But when we finally really connect with ourselves,

And we really figure ourselves out. You know, this idea that the first person I would run and tell that I had figured out I was gay, you know, most people assume it was Tegan. And, you know, for me, for me, you know, like the person who I struggled to tell was myself. You know, I was having I was having relationships with women and I was doing things.

you know, doing the dance of like, well, I'm not gay, I just like this girl. I like this girl. And, you know, so the book is less about, you know, what I don't share with Tegan, but it's more about my, you know, my journey to figure out how to admit what I was, what I am to myself.

Yeah, like I said, it was so interesting that that wasn't a given, that you just ran to each other with every intimate detail. I think a lot of people will really have some laughs with, I mean, your mother. I think about her so much. Well, I do. Well, I love your mom too. She's been very kind to me over the years, as have you guys. But, you know, if we can just touch on the drugs a little bit.

And the drug use. I went to a very small high school. There was 40 kids and there was a lot of acid being dropped, but drugs were different. Like even in your generation, they're not the drugs of today. And I want people to understand that they really were recreational drugs.

Yeah. Things we worried about when we, when we started writing the book was how much of our drug use, how much of our experimentation to put in. And, you know, there were other things we were doing too. I mean, sneaking out, lying, stealing money from my stepdad. I mean, we were, we weren't great at times. We were, we were definitely on the edge of the spectrum where we were really pushing boundaries and acting out at times. And,

And I feel so grateful that, you know, our publisher Simon & Schuster really encouraged us to tell this, that part of our story and to embrace that. I think as, I know you'll relate to this Jan, but there's pressure, especially on women in our industry to present only the perfect side of yourself. And that's just,

untrue. And, and for Sarah and I, especially as queer women, we feel like there's only this, there's always this pressure to only tell like the great coming out story, the great story of how we became musicians. And so the drug part of our story was absolutely our, our sort of acknowledgement that we, that we were not perfect and drugs were different then. It's totally true. And Sarah and I are really quick to say, like, we're not advocating for people to be experimenting with drugs, especially young people. It's really dangerous out there. I mean, the overdose numbers

pandemic is proof that the drug supply is not good and there's lots to be done to legalize and make safe the drugs that are out there. But you know, this was the nineties and acid apparently was very popular in Alberta. That's like a well

Oh my gosh. And so we did a lot of acid, but we turned out fine. Thanks for being such an advocate. Your foundation is changing so many people's lives at Tegan and Sarah Foundation. You should be so proud of the philanthropic work that you've done with the LGBTQ plus community. I'm extremely proud of you. The book is exceptional. It's beautifully written. You're great writer.

You both have your own voices, but it's great writing. High School is out in Simon & Schuster. Go pick it up. Buy it wherever you buy your books. And I wish you guys just safe travels. And I can't wait to see you again and hear you play your great music. Thanks for being with us today.

As promised on our very, very impressive podcast, we've made bigger promises, but this one actually showed up for us. This is, this is, Max Kerman is with us. I will say lead singer, writer, the Arkells, one of the best.

Canada's great rock and roll success stories, if I may be so bold. We follow each other on social media, on Instagram at least. Max, thanks for doing this. Hey, my pleasure. I've been a fan of yours for a very long time now. So it's great to talk to you. You mentioned

Yes. Before we went to air your, your hair looks amazing and I've seen it many, many ways. Cause I've been, I've been submerged in your, your songs and your videos and your hair has seen a lot of different vibes. Yeah. Well, um,

- The thing is, so I did like a COVID hairdo where I just kind of let it go for a long time. And that's sort of been the state for like the last year and a half. But we did this thing where we got to play as part of the opening night with the Toronto Maple Leafs. - I saw it, I saw it. - All right, so,

we were approached by the Leafs. They said, "We want you to do something to kick off opening night. It's kind of a momental, momental? Monumental occasion." -I want to say yes. -"Momental, yeah, where people are gonna be back in the stands, and we want you to do something kind of special for it."

You know, the logistics of pulling off a live performance, even in the best of times, it's kind of hard, let alone during COVID and when there's about to be a hockey game played on the ice. It was one thing to sing the national anthem. It's another thing to have five guys with their instruments rocking out for the sound and look okay.

So we had a brainstorm. We're like, what if we did kind of the Saturday Night Live thing where we're kind of walking through the hallways, like the behind the scenes look before, you know, before we get to the main attraction, which is like being in the bowl with all the fans. And so they liked that idea. And then we said, why don't we just film it like...

like two weeks before just to get it in the can. We can mix it properly. We can color it and we can just make it look great. We can run it a bunch of times to make sure that it feels good. And so they signed off on that. So, uh,

uh, we actually filmed it two weeks before the home opener. And then the last five seconds of the performance, I come out in real time from behind the curtain and I'm wearing the same outfit and I go, all right, you've gotten your feet Toronto, let's go. So I couldn't cut my hair. So for two weeks I had to make sure, because if I had got a haircut absentmindedly and I was just, you know, it was nice and trimmed, people would have known, uh,

you know, this isn't the same guy. This isn't happening live. I disagree. They would have said, oh, my God, when did he have time to cut his hair before he got on stage?

No, that's a fantastic idea. Was that exciting? Would you call that a highlight? Like, are you a Leafs fan? Be honest. No, I am a Leafs fan. I grew up in Toronto and then I went to Hamilton for university and that's where I met the guys. So highlight for you because you are a Leafs fan. I don't even I still like the Montreal Canadiens like from 1975. That's where my heart is.

Yeah, I do love the Leafs. I've made friends with the general manager of the team, Kyle Dubas, who's like my age and he's a music fan and his wife has some mutual friends of mine in Hamilton. And

And I know some of the guys on the team. So there's a personal interest there. But more than anything, it's something to do. Like, I don't know if, I know you stay busy, Jan. You're one of the best at just like keeping going. And for us, it's like during COVID or like what, like this week, what is the fun thing we're going to do this week? That'll be kind of creatively stimulating and something to look forward to and something to accomplish. So I think that, you know, during the last 18 months, it's like every day we wake up and go, all right, what's the fun thing we can do today?

uh, that will occupy ourselves. Uh, how's it been for you, Jan? Like, what do you, have you struggled with that? Or do you, do you feel like you're, you're busy as hell? I, I'm not going to lie because of where I live. I'm in rural Southern Alberta right now. I'm, I'm in Vancouver. I'm at Bruce Allen's office just because I have little things to do in Vancouver. So that's why all these plaques are here behind me. They're not me. It's like,

Ryan Adams and Buble and screw those guys. Just screw those guys. But I, my life was really unchanged with the exception of me leaving on a plane every week and going somewhere. I was just at home and I'm not around anybody, but I was scared the first few months to be honest, Max. And then I kind of just settled into,

you know, feeding birds and just not wearing pants. And, you know, I think I was just following along with everybody else in the world. And, but I felt less panicked as time went on, but I did a lot of writing. Did you write, did you write songs? Yeah, we, we got a lot of writing done. We kind of discovered that we can do a lot from the confines of our own sort of personal studios. So like Tony would send over a nugget of an idea, our keyboard player, and then I'd sing something over top of it and we'd send it to the next guy and

And that's kind of how

the band recorded our acoustic record, Campfire Chords, which was a reaction to the pandemic. It was like, okay, people are going to be hanging at home. They want to be soothed. They want to feel good. They need some good tunes to put on while they're in their backyard or on their balcony or whatever. And that's how that record was made. It was just by us sending songs along to each other, which is a new way of working for us. We've never done that before. But I'm glad it's part of our arsenal now, so to speak.

Well, digital stuff has just opened up the whole world. I remember just having a conversation with Bob Rock like eight months ago. He lives in Maui.

And Bob, for people that don't know, is an amazing producer. He's just worked with so many phenomenal bands, ACDC, Metallica, for all you guys out there that are into that. Bob had so much to do with those massive, huge albums. But he was just like, Jan, for the first time in my entire career, I've been able to phone guys up and get drum tracks from the best players, the best bass players. They all have home studios. And he goes, you should hear the stuff that I'm getting that just makes

guys are just sending me files to Maui. I'm like, I never even thought of that. Everyone's got home studios.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing, I gotta say. You know, I feel like part of the lore of being in a band is like, you know, the five guys getting together in a room, jamming it out. And sometimes that's successful. Broads, blow, fans going. All that good stuff. Going for four days. I don't know if rock and roll looks like that anymore. Thank God we'd all be dead. No, we have a pretty lame band when it comes to that stuff. But I will say...

The idea of other guys kind of like just breathing over your neck as you're trying to play a song is actually kind of counterproductive, I think. I think if everybody had like, hey, just can you f*** off for, you know, three hours and let me work through a thing without the rest of the band going, oh, no, no, yeah, ooh, no, uh-uh, can we try, you know what I mean? So I think being able to do that,

Being able to do things by yourself at home lent to a new kind of artistic freedom, which was cool. So we're always trying to learn and evolve. You know, it's like we have, we just put out our sixth album and- I know, congratulations. Thank you, thank you. And you know, we definitely wanted-

to do things differently. You know, each record we want to try to do things differently because I think things get stale pretty quick if you just go back to the same bag of tricks. So we worked with more co-writers, different producers, songs started from different places. And I think the album still feels like us because it's us playing and singing, but it feels also totally new and different for our audience. Do you think of yourself as a good singer, Max? No, bad singer. Okay, I always want to ask

like singers, this question of what their perception is of what they do. You know, I've seen so many clips of you guys playing your songs, these epic songs in front of 20,000 people, everyone's singing along with you. Like that's gotta be so bizarre. It always sounds good when 20,000 people sing along. It does. Yeah.

It's true. Well, you know, I always say that like in most cases, the only difference between in like the quality of voice between like the singer in a band versus say the guitarist or keyboard player is

Well, the only difference is that the singer wants to really do it. Like oftentimes the guitarist and the piano player are like, I can do it, but I'm just not that interested. So actually somebody tweeted at me like an hour ago asking if we'd ever do the national anthem. And I was like, absolutely not. No, I said absolutely not. That's a job for real singers and I'm a fake singer. So have you done the national anthem, Jan? Yeah.

I did a basketball, an all-star basketball game in Houston, Texas. No, here's a perfect example of Canada. I'm doing Canada by myself in like a lumberjack coat.

you know, singing just acapella. The American version in like 2007 or something was Beyonce. She came out, she had like fans that rolled onto the basketball court and I was just like, and Beyonce was part of, you know, the band, you know, Destiny's Child at that point. But anyway, if there was ever a moment where you're like, there's Canada and there's the United States of America.

Max Kerman, you are unbelievably talented. I'm really, really thrilled for you guys and your success. And I think you've got thousands and thousands of fans that are going to be so thrilled to see you in the next little while going out on the, on the tours that were rebooked 17 times. Thanks so much for having me, Jan. Honestly, we've been listening to you and my family for years. So it's, it's a real honor to chat with you here. Thank you. Thank you.

We're back. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. I'm here with probably one of the best singer-songwriters this country has produced in, I don't know, 178 years. Has Canada been a country for 178 years? Sarah McLachlan is with us today. She's a badass. Don't fight with her. Don't ever get in a brawl with her. Don't ever steal her lucky scrunchie.

There's not a person on this planet that doesn't recognize Lilith Fair. Everyone recognizes what that was, the celebration of women together. It was almost, you were so far ahead of the curve as far as that movement for women to give them a platform, to give them a place to play in front of massive crowds that, let's face it, music industry can feel very dominated by men. You were young when you went down this path with Lilith Fair.

And the lasting legacy of what you did for dozens and dozens of careers. I know because I saw some of my friends on your stages that went on to do things that were given that opportunity at Lilith Fair. How do you look back at that time in your life? Oh, with a lot of gratitude and really amazing memories. And, you know, I just...

I was really young and didn't even know, didn't know what I was stepping into. You know, I just thought, you know,

There's so many amazing women making music right now and having success. Why are none of them represented in all these summer touring festivals? Well, let's just do it ourselves. So a big part, yes, I had the idea, but a big part of the success was the fact that everybody also wanted this. These other female artists wanted this. They wanted the connection. They wanted to create the community and we all did it together. We all built it together. And that's why it worked. I think. Yeah.

And because music, I think people often underestimate music.

music listeners, music lovers and say, Oh, these people aren't going to come. You're all, you only have this narrow audience. I listened to everything. And I assume that I'm kind of, you know, not that abnormal in the, in my musical tastes. And I talked to so many other people and they're like, Oh yeah, you should, you should see my record collection. Well, I'm aging myself. Although that's now coming back. You know, we all have diverse tastes in music. We do. And I think, you know,

Getting to try and represent a little bit of that at Lilith and to disprove, you know, those old male attitudes in the music business that women couldn't play back to back on the radio, that women couldn't play together on the same stage. People wouldn't listen. Well, when I was told that, I said, well, that's asinine.

Like what rock? They wouldn't listen because it was all female voices and female music. Female voices. Yes. But it was rock and roll. It was jazz. It was ethereal. It was, it was operatic. It was acid, you know, rock. It was like, you saw every genre of music in an afternoon. And it was such a, the village, like,

I went to see the shows probably, I'm going to say three or four times, five times, because I was so inspired by it. And all the things you guys do,

that I think were so innovative and the first of its kind, people selling things, people sponsoring the show, these commercial villages where people could literally walk around and support small vendors, support. It wasn't just music artists. It was artisans. You'd go on the grounds at Lilith and it was a massive moving feast. Yeah. Yeah, it was the idea of, you know, you can go

You can go and get your pretty jewelry, get your face painted. You can get the, you know, the sort of the festival thing, but you can also be educated. There was nonprofits there. There was like, we got to give a lot of money away to local and national charities. And we also got to give the opportunity to have a lot of nonprofits table so that they could, you know, educate people who were there. And it's all part of the, you know, this holistic thing about what women can do.

be and achieve and when we work together and, you know, and just for this greater good that we can do so much when we band together and make a real difference in the world in all sorts of facets. You know, we can do the music thing, we can make people feel good, we can make them cry, we can make them

feel joyous we can bring them closer to their emotional worlds we can also educate them we can also you know in the sense of like oh I might I might not have been aware of this particular product and this this company who's also giving a lot of money to charity so it's just a sort of a you know conscious consumer constant consumer shift as well you wore a lot of hats like not only were you performing night after night with this giant three ring fantastic

happening. But you were responsible for putting a lot of the different artists together. To me, one of the most exciting parts of what you did, Sarah, was the collaborations. And I think everyone out in the crowd was so dazzled by seeing

Women work together that would never, ever have crossed each other's paths. Is there recordings? Is there, and I know there was lots of recordings done of Lilith Fair, but is there any hidden things that you've ever pondered of putting up? There's gotta be. Oh, there must be. I think there's, there's tons and tons and tons of tapes. I keep waiting for you to make an announcement on social media that

We have a four album set of Lilith Fair collaborations coming your way. Sarah, I'm telling you right now, I would be the first in line

And that's why I wanted to ask you, because someone said, ask Sarah if there's like recordings, because I know Joni Mitchell, you probably know this because of the people you work with, has just come out with all these gems that she had, I guess, from Laurel Canyon. But it's a four or six CD album set of unreleased material.

Oh yeah. I mean, as I said, we recorded everything. I can't speak to the quality of it without listening to it, but yeah, there's, there's a ton of material there and it was so incredible. Do I have to phone Sam Feldman? Do I have to phone, who do I have to, who do I have to sleep with? Well, let me just put that on the great long list. Not of who you have to sleep with, but no. Oh, okay. Oh damn. Yeah.

Listen, but anyway, just, I'm just throwing that out there. Cause I think would make magnificent. I mean, you've done so much stuff since then, the music school you've had, you know, thousands of kids go through there with a renewed sense of their love of music. I've done, I've been involved a little bit in some of the fundraising you've done over the years, but wow, that was magic. And I'm wondering if, if Lilith had anything to do with

you starting that. Absolutely. It was paramount because I put the money I made from Lilith into my foundation. And because I just, I loved the feeling of giving. Like every day I got to

give a dollar for every ticket sale to a local women's shelter, which on some days was $300. That is phenomenal. That feeling of giving, I just wanted for the Lilith legacy to continue somehow. So really that's how the school, 18 years in now, is still thriving and doing so well. You are such a force to be reckoned with. And I think one of the nicest things to watch you over these years

Three decades, three and a half. I mean, let's face it, Sarah, 80s, right? Is your sense of self, your authenticity, I think you're such a great representative of Canada. You can laugh at yourself, which is such a gift.

And if I have people come up to me and I mean this so earnestly, what is Sarah like? Oh my God, have you met Sarah? Please, if you ever see her, tell her. Megan says, and that to me says so much because it's assumptive that, you know, they think we're pals. And I feel like we are friends, certainly after all these years, but just that people, they don't ask shite about me.

What's Sarah McLachlan? Anyway, I can't thank you enough for being with us today. And thanks for taking time. Please stay safe out there. Absolutely. And we'll cross paths again. You've been listening to the phenomenal Sarah McLachlan, actor, philanthropist, business mogul, singer, songwriter, and crocheter. No, I don't know if she crochets. No, I don't. Thanks to all our listeners. Come and see us again here at Jan Arden Podcast. Do, do, do, do.

This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.