Courage & Design with Tommy Smythe
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Well, hello, everyone. It's the Jan Arden Podcast. I'm here with Sarah Burke, and I'm also here with Adam Karsh, and they are in Toronto. I'm in Calgary. I'm in Springbank, Alberta. Yes, some people call it Sperm Bank, but I'm still here anyway. How are you guys? Doing great. I'm good. I'm good. How are your friends? Every morning, I feel like you have friends waiting at your window. They're here. I actually didn't feed them this morning because I had a doctor's appointment.

And I raced out the door and I was taking Poppy. Poppy isn't here today. He's still at Nadine's house because I thought, I'll go to the doctor's appointment, then I'm going to go home and I'm actually going to have a quiet podcast. First time ever, folks. You know, I listened to last week's and I was like, holy mother of hell. The dog is stealing my thunder. Anyway, he loves it there. He's got a dog to play with. And listen how quiet it is. Oh, hey!

But I'm glad to be home. I've been, I actually have not had to travel anywhere or get on a plane or go to an airport or any of that kind of stuff. So I am, I'm really leaning into just putting PJs on at five o'clock at night. Love it. Right? Oh, it's the best. Yeah. Oh yeah.

It's kind of a COVID thing, I think, that started happening with people kind of getting in their leisure wear and getting, like sometimes it's 3.30 and I'm like, is it too late to do that? Adam's shaking his head. I'm in my gray sweatpants right now and I haven't changed in two and a half years. I think we have learned to become easier on ourselves. I think when you are in the rat race, you don't know you're in the rat race.

And, you know, I've said this all along, good things do come out of bad things. And I learned to slow down, like even having this week to myself and not flying around. I have, it's very hard for me not to be hard on myself and think I should be doing stuff. I should do this. I should probably get to the studio. I was in the studio yesterday with Russ because we've kind of started a new cool project. But that's the first little thing I've done. And it's only a half an hour drive from me.

Do you guys feel that way? Oh, I feel that way all the time. I think it's part of like not going to work until six o'clock at night to do like an evening radio show. If I'm not on with you guys, I'm like, I should be plotting my next thing. Like, you know, it's a weird feeling. Is it part of FOMO, Sarah?

Yeah, maybe. I mean, I do love like, I love having the morning to myself. I think that's important. And most, most like very successful entrepreneurs, you've read about this somewhere, I'm sure. They have like a morning routine that they are uninterrupted or parents who, you know, wake up at 5am to have an hour or two before their children wake up. Mornings to yourself are good. Tell me about your routine, Sarah. Tell me, tell me the Sarah Burke morning ritual. Cause I really am curious about,

You know, some people go off like a shotgun. It's like spring out of bed and the day starts before they've really even had a time to assess, am I rested? Tell me about your morning routine.

I am a very routine gym person. So I honestly wake up 10 minutes before I'm lifting a weight. Like I fly out of here. Well, when you go to the gym, like you're not getting ready. You're throwing on your sports bra and you're out, right? But I mean, are you just leaping out of bed and going to the gym? Do you have a cup of tea? Like there's got to be something in between, right? Yeah.

I hit the go on the coffee button while I'm brushing my teeth. And then like, I'll bring the coffee on the drive with me to the gym and have it with me like while we're seeing what the workout's going to be for the day. But I do my slowdown after the gym. I just like come, I sit here, I look at the lake, I look at what I need to do for the day. Maybe a meditation, a little bit of like, you know, cleaning or putting things away, like things to look neat. I don't know if you've

I have a lot of laundry behind me right now, so I didn't get to that today. But yeah, that's my morning routine. And then I work on projects in the afternoon usually. Tell me why the gym all the time and what is your goals there? And be honest, are you a person, a woman, a human that worries about...

Oh my gosh, if I put on two pounds, if these clothes don't fit exactly perfect, if I don't look a certain way, be honest. Like I want to know what the motivation is for being that dedicated. And is it seven days a week? Do you take a day off?

I definitely listen to my body and take time off. I'm usually there five days a week. And I, I will often say like, okay, if I'm too tired today, like if, you know, let's say I did something after the afternoon or the evening show, I went to a show and I was out till, you know, two in the morning, then I make a call. But my goal is pretty, it's like mental gymnastics is the way that I would, I would say.

Expand on mental gymnastics. I'm really bad at distractions. When I'm at the gym, nothing can distract me. I'm just there for the workout. I'm focusing on one thing. You don't have your phone in your hand. That's what I love about the gym. On top of that, you know, releasing energy. I'm a pretty like high energy person, so I like the output. My goal has...

over the years because I think growing up in competitive dancing, there was some body image stuff growing up. But I'm so confident in my body the way it is right now. And, you know, sure, we all feel gross sometimes, but I'm there to feel good and feel good about my strength

I like being able to like say, you know, oh, I'm lifting heavier than I was like a few weeks ago. Like I like that. If you went on a holiday, would you be in the gym every day of that holiday because you're eating a little extra or drinking a little extra? Is that part of the Sarah Burke holiday routine? I would say I would be there like two or three days. Like I would amp down a little bit. Well, that's good to know.

Do you think that you are easy on yourself? Yeah, I would call myself balanced. Balanced. And you really, and you honestly can say that, that you feel like at this point in your life, you're in your 40s, that you've struck a balance. I love how I suddenly turned 40. I'm 35. I'm just saying if we move forward in your life and we get there, I'm hypothesizing. So now you're 55. Do you think you're still going to keep this up?

I like even putting like, you know, a 5K walk in there instead of going to the gym. It's about movement, movement and mental gymnastics. That's what I like. I didn't think you were 35 yet. I thought you were going to be 35. I turned 36 in March. Should we put on the calendar? Oh, so it's 36 in March. So we're 35 and a half. Are you an Aries? No, I'm a Pisces. Okay. You're before me. I'm an Aries and you're an Aries too, Jen. Adam, I knew you were an Aries.

But you're on April Aries. Yes, I'm April 5th and you're March 27th. I know that. Yes, I knew you. And you are Pisces, so you're March the what? 12th. Okay. I know nothing about astrological anything. So you hit the gym, you do come back. It's funny that do you ever change the order of that stuff? Like for me, I do adhere to an order or things don't get done.

but I can't just leap up and hit the gym. Like I have to now, as I've gotten older, you know, is 60 still considered your late 50s? Let's go with it. So I lay in bed for hours.

20 minutes. I don't leap up anymore. For some reason, I wasn't feeling good. Like I would, I would get up, get out of bed, immediately throw the curtains open, start making my bed. Like there's things, an unmade bed is an unmade head. That's what I was taught. So I make my bed. Yeah. I just can't, I cannot get on with my day without making the bed. Like I will miss a flight because I need to make my bed. You know what I'm saying here? Yeah.

And I'll have a cup of tea, always Earl Grey, always with the plant milk, always with the Stevia sweetener. Like there's just things. I listen to the news a couple times a week before COVID. I stopped doing that every day because that wasn't good for me. Like the other day, someone told me about Colorado, which we're definitely going to talk to our guest about the Colorado shooting today. Tommy Smythe is going to be joining us later. I should have said that right off the bat. But so that happened.

And then 48 hours later, another shooting happened in Virginia at a Walmart. And I didn't know about it until like an hour ago today because I didn't listen to the news yesterday. But yeah, the routine for me has changed as I've gotten older. And I wonder if you will change up

how you hit the ground running? Like maybe do your meditation first, maybe? I would like that. I think that's in my goals. And what's interesting too is my routine has changed since my nine to five, which I left in March of this year. So it used to be jumping out of bed for someone else. Now I'm jumping out of bed for me. It's something I want to go do. But I think my next step is

you know, giving myself some time to wake up before getting into full mode, you know, and it's not that bad. Like I'm going to a, I love a 9.15 class that I like going to every day. So, you know, I'm pretty well rested because it's a later class anyway, but I would like, you know, to have a coffee before I go. Let me work on that for you. I really think it's important. And I often, I'll often talk to people about their routines because I am curious to know

what a day entails. But even when I'm on the road and I get asked about this quite a bit, you know, what happens when you're in a hotel? Well, there's usually always a little teapot in a hotel and I travel with my own tea. And I always will have a jug of one of those little oat milks that you can screw the cap on. And there's usually a mini bar wherever I'm going. And, but I do take, the biggest change for me and the biggest thing that has really helped me, and maybe this will help people listening today, is

is I open my eyes and I lay there for 15 or 20 minutes. I pet the dog. I maybe stretch a little bit in bed. I think, I don't always pick up my phone. Sometimes I just, I'll just lay there, put my, fold my fingers in behind my head and think about what I want to do today. Oh, I'm going to do that. And I've got that. Oh, maybe I should call that person. But when I was leaping out of bed, which I did for 40 years of my life, and I mean up and out, I was making myself sick.

I was missing a really important beginning to my day. I can't articulate it other than to say the difference that it's made of staying static

10 minutes even. And I know people have jobs to go to, but it's made a big, big difference for me. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast. We've got lots to talk about today. Tommy Smythe is going to be here. I'm here with Sarah and Adam. We're going to come back and talk a little bit more about how you make your way through your day and how routine affects you. Don't go away. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast.

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Maybe you're listening on iHeartRadio. Maybe you're listening on iTunes. Maybe you're listening on Spotify. Maybe you're listening on something I've never even heard of before. But welcome, welcome to the show. We've been talking about morning routines. My 88-year-old grandmother had a very specific routine until she got Alzheimer's, and that was the first sign of her death.

sort of mental issues when there was deviations in her routine because my step-grandfather, who was the only grandfather I ever knew, could not get his head around not having food plunked in front of him, his coffee plunked in front of him, his slippers plunked in front of him, his outfit laid out. Lucky guy. Yeah. And 40 years of that, right? So...

And imagine the tumultuous nature of their conversations when my grandmother didn't know how to fry an egg. She didn't know where the slippers were. She didn't know. So both their routines, and his especially, it was very hard for her, but she was being forgetful. But I would imagine on the other side of that fence where he stood, it must have been so scary.

Because they couldn't stay in the house anymore. And they both had to move to assisted living. I'll give him that. He picked them up and he moved them both into, they didn't have someone come in their rooms and administer any kind of medication or anything like that. There was just, it was easier for him to deal with her.

But they did have meals prepared, so he knew she couldn't cook for him anymore. But how heartbreaking. It's so hard being a person, isn't it, Adam? It's hard. It is sometimes. Yeah. What's your routine? You have a morning routine, obviously, because you've got girls. Sure. I take my girls to school every morning, and my youngest gets up. She's chipper. If she went to bed at 2 in the morning, she'd still be up at 7. I like that kid. Yeah.

Yeah, I bet you it is. She's good to go. My older one, who's 11, sleeps in like a teenager. And every single morning, Elle, Ellie, Elle, wake up, wake up, wake up. Well, she's 11 teen. She's 11 teen. Yeah, totally. She's a good kid and she listens, but it takes her a really long time. Do you pull the sheets off? I have to know. Do you pull the sheets off her? No, I don't. That's cruel. I just open the...

No, I don't do that. I do open the door and I dim up the light so that she wakes up. And then it's come down, come down, come down. And I say it 50 times. And then to my other daughter, put your socks on, put your socks on 50 times. And then it's we're going to be late another 50 times. And then you're already prepared for Alzheimer's with somebody in your family. You're already doing the prep work.

Because I could have placed you in my shoes. Come down, come down, put your socks on, put your socks on. No, eat. That's your juice. That's your juice. That's your juice. I want to talk to you guys about food rituals in the morning because we talk about food a lot on this show. Yes. And I know that I have go-tos that I don't deviate from very often.

for breakfast foods. Why breakfast foods or breakfast foods? Because let's face it, you can eat whatever the F you want in the morning, but that's not how our minds work. So Sarah, you're going to the gym now on a cup of coffee. A, I don't know if that's healthy or not. I have no idea. I'm not going to comment on it. You're right. You're right, mom. Thank you. You're right. Well, I could be your mother, so screw you. I could have had you at 25 years old. Your mother's probably younger than I am.

Um, what, so what's, what does that look like? You, you come home from the gym and what do you eat? The big brunch, the big brunch. And I love it so much. I also, you're right. I don't stray away from it very much. I have like, I love my eggs. I'll have two eggs. I'll have turkey bacon, two pieces of turkey bacon, um, a piece of, um, like, uh, I have this like quinoa bread that I like avocado and tomato on it. That's my, I love it every day.

And you pretty much have that. It's hard for you to get off of that, isn't it? Oh, I love it. And it gives me all the things, healthy fats, protein, right? All the things you want right after the gym. However, if I've been super on my meal prep game and I prepared, let's say, banana muffins, which I did this week, I will have a banana muffin on my way to the gym. I put like some protein powder and stuff in the muffins. And that'll like, that's better for the workout situation, which I agree. Yeah.

Adam, I know we've talked about breakfast before, before Sarah was part of our show. What do you eat in the morning? And I know there's something that repeats itself.

Yes, I would say I do have a rotation. My go-to is toasted rye bread, a fried egg, a slice of cheddar cheese, two thin slices of tomato, and either arugula or shaved iceberg lettuce. You fancy, Adam. Not bad, huh? You fancy. Salt and pepper. Is that every day? It's a lot. It's a lot. But do you have that every day? Almost. Almost.

Sometimes a smoothie. This is a great place to jump in. Tommy Smythe is just joining us. Tommy is an exceptional human being. I have been very blessed to be able to call this man my friend over the years. Kind-hearted, exceptionally talented, altruistic, supportive, kind, generous, forgiving, all those things.

Uh, he's been incredibly successful in design and art for many decades. I don't know. I met his mom a couple of weeks ago and I'd like to think she's got a lot to do with it, which I'm going to ask you about. Tommy is a staple on television. Um, all kinds of programs. I'm not going to sit here and list them off. If you want to go onto Wikipedia and find all the stuff that he has been involved with, you do that. We don't have time for that because we want to talk to Tommy. Um,

The greatest thing that I, the greatest purchase that I've made in the last three weeks is this beautiful metal, decorative, gorgeous bowl that Tommy designed. It is made from all recycled things. I'll let him answer to that. But it is part of Urban Barn's Tommy Smythe collection of some beautifully curated pieces that you can go walk to an Urban Barn right now and

and check them all out. Tommy Smythe is with us today. And what a pleasure it is to have you on the podcast. Hi, Tommy. Well, I'm very happy to be here. This is my first time on your podcast.

And I'm learning a little bit that podcasts are sort of like radio, but not because you can say fuck on a podcast and you can't say that on the radio. We might beep it out because lo and behold, we are on the radio. It's just not live on the radio. No, no, we're going to beep your fuck out. But we are on terrestrial radio on the iHeart chain, probably across this fine country.

Tommy, right out of the bag, I want to talk to you about your collection at Urban Barn. How did this come to be? It is absolutely stunning. I was lucky enough to be at your little launch get together in Toronto. And I'm just I'm so proud of you. You must be excited about it.

Thank you. I am excited about it. And, you know, in terms of how it came about, there's really a two word answer to that, which is Chris Brenton. You know, Chris wanted me to do something that was an offering of products to the public realm. And he sort of introduced me to Urban Barn.

because he felt strategically for me, it was a great way to connect to Canadians because it's a Canadian company. They have a presence in terms of bricks and mortar stores that people can actually walk into and handle the merchandise.

across the country and they have great e-commerce. And so it was just a really brilliant fit. We were able to do things through that relationship that brought goods to people that I designed, you know, really, really with great care at a price point that we feel that a lot of people can have access to. So it was kind of like a really multi-layered, amazing, incredibly good fit. Yeah.

Hey, Chris is who, for people who aren't in the Jan and Tommy club, we need a little context. Chris is my, he's worked with me for 18 and a half years. He's been my road manager. I hired him when he was 21 years old out of university. He's such a creative guy. I mean, he was taking business and law and all kinds of things, but in marketing, but he's, him and Tommy have been, you guys have been working together for a couple of years. Yeah.

Well, you loaned him to me a couple of years ago. Well, he's not a loner. I think you're loaning him to me now is how this is working out. I mean, he runs his own show. But he and I were friends first and then decided to work together a couple of years ago. And since then, he's just been delightful. And he's really the connection that we have because you and I sort of met –

through our media associations and things like that. But Chris, our mutual friendship with Chris is kind of like a bit of the glue that holds you and I together. Yes. And he's been like a brother to both of us, to you for longer.

but to me for several years. And so the trust that's there is great. And when somebody that you trust and that you admire and that you respect brings an opportunity like this relationship with Urban Barn to you, you say yes. And that's really what led to this incredibly fruitful and delightful relationship. There was never an argument. There was never a question about anything.

From start to finish, it was just chosen as the best fit for me. And Chris was right about that. Do you start with a lot more pieces than you end up presenting in these collections? Like, does it start with sort of a gathering of a lot of different ideas and then you kind of pare it down? I've always wondered how...

curate that kind of a collection because it seems very specific. It's very beautiful. There's cushions, there's throw blankets, there's a couple of vases. The bowl that I was talking about is recycled from, recycled tin? No, I'm getting that wrong. Aluminum. Aluminum. It made me feel so good buying it knowing that it was rescued from other aluminums, old aluminums. Yes.

Discarded aluminum. Yeah, sad, lonely aluminums. Yeah. Or if you're in England, aluminiums. Yeah. It's made with both. It's made with both. But, you know, the creative process for stuff like this, I'm sure it's different for all kinds of different people. But for me, it started with two things. What was my intention and what would be the story behind that?

And so the intention for me was to create things that wouldn't end up being the home decor equivalent of fast fashion that would last long enough. It would be in people's lives for, you know, many, many years rather than many, many months. And then, you know, so that was the intention. That's why we ended up with, you know, really solid natural materials like stone and that our metals were recycled, that our leather is vegan leather. I love that. You know,

Yeah, I knew. And I knew you would. And I think a lot of people, not just us, really appreciate that these days, as they should. And so it's cruelty-free. It incorporates a lot of recycled materials. So that was intentional. And then the story was really meant to be

A story of objects that you could fold into your existing interiors rather than feel as though, and so many people are overwhelmed by this thought, you have to start from scratch. So we use black and sort of neutral cognac tones and grays and warm metals.

metallics so that if you wanted to buy two pieces, they're going to go into your house easily. If you want to buy 10 pieces or 22 pieces, you know, yeah, sure. That'll be me. That's going to be me. Oh, that's so nice. You're so supportive. I know. I want to say actually publicly in this forum that Jan went out and bought retail, even though two of her,

friends actually created this collection. She can get free stuff from Chris and free stuff from me. She actually went to a retail store and bought merchandise. You should have seen us going down the street. We had our two dogs. We went into the store. I think the clerks were like,

Oh my God, is that her? And I was like, are the dogs okay? We love having dogs in here. I beelined it for that beautiful aluminum recycled bowl, cruelty free. And it's heavy. He's like, we don't have a bag to put this in. I'm like, that's okay. I have my own bag here and I handed it to Chris and,

And, um, we really, we looked like a sight gag going down the street with the dogs. I look like I'd been like working in some kind of a factory and yeah, we just, we went, we marched about, you know, five blocks back to my condo, which I should preface by saying Tommy and his amazing team, Laura Fremont, I mean, uh, some incredible, um, craftsmen took my concrete box and

Because that's all you get for a certain amount of money in Toronto. And it is, Tommy, I, well, he can tell you, I cried when I walked in. I walked in and I burst out crying because it felt like home. Yep. And then you felt compelled to tell me that you weren't crying because you were upset. You were crying because you were happy. Yeah.

I knew. I thought he might go, this is the worst reveal ever. Yeah, she's mad. I think I learned a huge lesson because I didn't realize the importance of what's around us and how it affects us emotionally. And you really drove that home. I mean, home is home. You get used to your stuff. You drag it around with you by the time you're 20. You keep...

bringing certain things forward. Oh, I can't get rid of that. But walking into a place where everything was new to me, basically. There was a few little things from mom and dad, but you incorporated those all in so quickly.

Perfectly. Where do you get the inspiration for design? You get it from the client. And one of the things that I am so proud of in terms of the business that we run is that if you look at our website, all of the projects that are in our portfolio section are very different. And that's because all of the people we design them for are different people.

So the number one, you know, aspect of what I do that is the most important thing is knowing the client well enough that when you present that client with a finished product, it's reflective of who they are rather than who I am. And so, you know, what your listeners should know about Jan as a person, as a human being, I mean, that intro to me was so generous and I'm about to reciprocate because when we started our business,

We started it about two weeks before the first lockdown. That's not something I would recommend. And we didn't know that was going to happen. And Jan was one of the very first people that called and said, let's do something.

And so this was a pandemic project. It took probably, I would say, a year longer than it could have, would have, or should have if there had not been a pandemic. Well, we couldn't even get you in the building. We couldn't even get you in the building. No, but you and I had so many phone conversations and FaceTimes about what it was, how you wanted to feel in that space, what it was that you wanted to bring along on that journey, what you wanted to leave behind.

how you wanted to experience life in that space. And as you said, in the, in the style at home magazine article, you know, this relationship in terms of the project came about because you had, you purchased the place because you've been spending so much time in hotels and you

That's a telling bit of the assignment because a lot of our clients come to us and say, I want my place to feel like a luxury hotel. You'd had enough of that. So you wanted something deeply personal. I wanted the antithesis to hotel. Exactly. And that's, I think, what you want. Well, you said an interesting thing a minute ago, and that was, you know,

creating a space depending on what each client wanted. You created something I didn't even know I needed. I didn't know that I could have pink and blue tiles on one entire wall in the kitchen. I didn't know that I would like a rug pattern that was contrary to a chair that was

shades of green and, you know, just rusts and like a seventies thing. And when I walk in there now, I'm like this, I belong here just as much as I belong at home in Calgary. And I was, I was spending 10 days a month in hotels in Toronto. And I had for 25 years, think about the money, you know, that you, that you throw out the window. But, um, I wanted to ask you, and this is going back a fair ways of,

Having had the chance to meet your mom, how did she support you? And how was little Tommy with your mom? She just seemed like a magical unicorn charmer to me when I met her at your opening.

Yeah, she's great at a party. And she's one of the funniest people that I've ever known. And so much of what I know about what I do and so much of the person that I am is because of her. And she's everybody's favorite person in the room. And I'm not just saying that because she's my mom. I'm saying that because of feedback that I get from other people.

But she taught me a long time ago that you can live with beautiful things. And we had white sofas in our homes growing up. And as children, we were taught not to go on the sofas and mess them up. And we were given a place to play that was not with white sofas. And we were just kind of taught things. She would teach us stuff. And we were brought to restaurants as little kids and taught to be polite and polite.

And she always supported our creative endeavors. Whenever I wanted to draw and have a pen and paper, it was always provided. When I was into fashion, she would always buy the thing that meant something to me to buy so that I could feel that I looked and was presenting to the world in a way that was meaningful to me.

When I came out of the closet as a gay man, she made sure that I felt loved and knew that that wouldn't change my relationship with her. She was just a really good parent. She was a person who was born to be a parent. Not everybody is. Lots of people who are parents maybe got forced into it or shouldn't have done it. My mother 100% should have done it. She is baffled by the creative side

success that, you know, my siblings and I have achieved. We are, you know, no parent is, you know, my mom always said, you know, as a parent, you're only ever as happy as your least happy child. Oh, I love that. And that's the truth. Put that on something. It's so good. Well, your sister can make a t-shirt. Your sister has, was the creator of Smythe jackets and that clothing line, which has been extremely, we've seen her jackets on,

Everybody in the world, including me. That's right, folks. I can get my boobs into a 14. Trust me. You can, yep. How important do you think those early years were to you finding your feet and finding your way? Like you said, coming out of the closet. And you had a person that loved you no matter what. And that...

I had that same, I had those parents in my life and I, I credit them with anything that's decent about me. Tommy is a cousin, my mom and dad, my mom in particular. Same with me. Same with me. No, I mean, not your mom and dad, but mine. Um,

I really do believe that when you set up kids to be responsible and to, and to believe in themselves and all of those trait things that are kind of these pat, you know, phrases that we use to describe good parenting are really true. And, you know, but my mother was also really honest with me. You know, she said to me, you know, many times in my life and career that,

it's going to be harder for you than other people. There are going to be opportunities that are given to other people that are not given to you because of who you are, and you're just going to have to rise above it and move through it.

And she was right about that. Even in bringing it back to the context of the little collection with Urban Barn that we were talking about, I have counterparts in lifestyle media who are men and women with perfect families and two kids. And they present as this nuclear family. And they get opportunities that are never going to be offered to me. And they're going to be a lot richer for it financially. Yeah.

than I will ever be. And, you know, maybe all I get to do is 22 SKUs at urban barn. But for me, that was such a triumph because not everyone invests in, you know, in that. And so, you know, she was realistic with me about certain things. And she always said, you know, if you're yourself, you're,

she said there, there would be nothing more painful for you. When I first went into television media, she said there'd be nothing more painful for you than living a second kind of a lie for the second half of your life. And so just please be yourself because if you have to keep up a lie for the rest of your life, you're, you're, it'll destroy you. And so I kind of went on camera and I was out and gay and quirky and, you know, I was a hundred percent myself and, and it's paid off for me, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, it, it sure has. And I, and I think that that branding and that message that you've put forward so in, in such earnestness is being yourself. And I mean, I think that's such an important message for anybody. And it's not just about young people either. It's about people that are sitting watching that are 50, 60, 72 years old that feel like they've never had authenticity in their lives before.

It's never too late. It's never too late to draw that line in the sand and just say, this is what I'm going to do. This is who I'm going to be. And I love that about you. Well, thank you. And I love that about you too. I mean, it's in the lyrics of the songs that you sing. It is in the way that you conduct yourself in your public life and in your private life.

And I think that's the most compelling thing about the people who are my friends, who are in the public realm, the people I actually have real friendships with is it without exception, those people are as they are in their private life and there's no artifice there. And, and that's important. And, you know, you have to avoid tropes and, and, and old, you know, pitfalls and, and, and hurdles, you know, like I can't stand that phrase, like speak your truth. There isn't,

one person's truth and another person's truth. There's the truth, you know, and who you are is the truth, right?

It's not a version of it that somebody can argue with or counter. It is indelibly what it is. There is the truth, not a truth or your truth or my truth. There just is the truth. So I find in navigating the political world and the world of the public realm and social media and even just interaction with friends who are different than I, it is really important to know that there's just the truth. We all share it.

You have opened a door that I'm going to push open a little further by reading part, if not all, of your social media post of a couple of days ago concerning the Colorado shooting. Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the assessment that something else is more important than fear. And that was a Franklin D. Roosevelt quote that you started your post with. And Tommy, yes, indeed. And Tommy goes on to write this.

Last night, I was on the judges panel for the Miss Alconvento Rico drag pageant. Alconvento Rico has been a safe place for the LGBTQ plus two spirit folks. That's me, if you're new here, and that was in parentheses, in my hometown for 30 years. Last night, as I sat down in my chair to prepare for the night's proceedings, I took a moment to look around. I was next to a raised stage, skirted in black fabric.

close to the back, side door visible. I played through my mind what a fast exit would look like and wondered for a second how able I would be to pull the person next to me down to the ground and under the platform if I had to. To those who felt safer staying home last night, I want to say that that is a totally appropriate reaction. Terrorism works. That's why they do it.

protecting one's physical and mental well-being in whatever way feels safe is exactly what we have to do right now. There is a wisdom in it. And to those of us and our allies who walk into queer gathering spaces in the coming days and weeks, I want you to know that my whole heart is in your chest, right there next to yours.

Maybe with enough hearts, the ones we possess and those loaned to us, we can be, if not bulletproof, perhaps courageous enough to keep fighting for our humanity, our dignity, our safety, and our future.

The queens last night spoke of community, family, service, joy, and pride. There were mothers and sisters and in-laws and outlaws and bankers and misfits and writers and politicians and every kind of welcome, greeting in more than a dozen languages. We had feathers and music and rhinestones and lashes and laughter. There was joy. I am more myself now.

Within this love than in any other kind of gathering place, these are our churches. Please keep your violence and hatred away from them. You scare us, but we are not weak. Please remember who we are. We are Alexander the Great.

My hair's on end, Tommy. That was so well written.

Well, it was written actually the morning after. So that drag show was delayed for two and a half years because of COVID-19. So these queens had been waiting so long. And by the time they actually were able to have the pageant, it was so big it had to move across the street. Um,

And we had it at Revival, which I know, Jan, you've done some small private shows there before. I've actually sat on the couch in the green room with you and Mitty. Yes, you have. Years ago, a few years ago. And so, you know, these people had invested so much in waiting and wanting to present themselves and

There were several trans contestants. So there were 22 queens who competed in the pageant. It started at 4.30 and it ended at 2 a.m. And I wanted to honor their courage in describing what it felt like to be in a gay nightclub.

The day after the Colorado shooting, which of course brought to mind Pulse nightclub and in Orlando and, you know, countless other, you know, violent shootings in the recent past and distant past.

So I just sat down on the sofa in the morning because I was so tired from being out so late and wanted to share with people who were already talking a lot in social media about what had happened in Colorado, how it affected me as a queer person in my own daily life.

Which when you get to be, when you're as lucky as me, my daily life includes from time to time judging an amazingly fabulous drag pageant. You know, that's a place of privilege. Are you aware of how many allies you have? Are you aware? Yes. There's 400, almost 450 comments that follow those remarks. Did you get a chance to read some of them? And did your heart just feel like, wow. I read them all.

Yeah, of course. Because, you know, the reason that we share our stories is so that we can, you know, make people understand that we are worthy of love, that we are worthy of safety, that we are normal, that we are, you know, I mean...

There's so much going on in terms of political rhetoric right now. And there's so much hate in North America right now. It's not just the exclusive purview of people who live in the United States. It's happening in Canada too. And we have to be very vigilant about things like that. And when people try to, you know, one of the things that the far right tries to do to people like us is they try to sexualize us.

And, you know, they say things like, you know, we don't want our children being read storybooks to buy drag queens. Well, children love drag queens. They have great big eyes and lashes and huge hair that's yellow and, you know, pink cheeks. And they think that they're the most wonderful things. Give me a drag queen over my dad anytime. Yeah. And, you know, and at the baseline, like what happens here is that people reduce us to our sexual activities. Yeah.

And they reduce us to our sexual activities. And then they turn around and call us perverts. Who's the perverted one here? I don't think when I look at my cisgendered straight counterparts and immediately think about the sex that they do, I think about who they are as a person. One tiny aspect of which is the sex that they do. Most of which is the person that they are.

the humor that they have, the learning that they've done, the experiences that they could share. The last time I had sex was 1989. So I don't know what, you know, what's the big deal.

I don't know. I couldn't tell you. I mean, I've had sex since then, but I haven't been paying attention at all. I know. I just, I try and read or watch TV when I'm having sex, you know, but it's not, it's not always the easiest thing to do. No, no, it's, it's messy and it's gross and we should talk about it. You know, the, the us and them thing, it is a very kind of a tired out story that we keep have to retelling over and over. And, and, and that list of names that you mentioned, you know,

all these people, James, I know James Ball and Harvey Milk, people that fought so hard for, for gay, lesbian, you know, bisexual, trans, two-spirit, the whole community. My mom used to call us the alphabet people, the alphabet people. Yes. And here we are having these same conversations in 2020.

you know, in the twenties, I guess, do you sometimes feel devoid of hope, Tommy Smythe, or are you, do you see like cracks in the wall where as Cohen so aptly put where the light comes in? Like, are you still hopeful about the queer community? I know some people don't like that word. I love that word. You know, I, cause I come from a generation Jan where, you know, our otherness was really our currency and,

And, you know, we fought and marched in the streets for younger kids to have rights that we never had. And I did that. I'm 52 years old now. So I was, you know, I've marched in London and New York and Toronto over decades and decades and decades for, I've shown up physically and yelled, you know, at the top of my voice for us to have human rights, just basic human rights.

and laws that would protect us, you know, in sickness and in our financial security. So yes, I always have hope. I mean, I've never lost hope because I don't think that we're a community that is capable of that. And I think that's what these people who keep coming for us need to understand is that we will fight back. We're not, look at the history. We're not, we're the most resilient people and other resilient cultures always come to our aid.

And so, you know, the great thing about being part of queer culture is you're also, by definition, a part of all kinds of other cultures. So we have Black culture, Jewish culture, Asian culture, all kinds of other oppressed people who are visible minorities incorporated into our quote unquote invisible minority. So we work really well with others. Yes. And they work really well with us. And so because of that, I've never lost hope. But

The practice of not losing hope involves the sharing of our personal journeys, especially, and I consider it a duty and a responsibility as a public person to do that because it behooves us to share that so that people can understand who are not like us, what it is to experience life as us.

I'm going to leave it right there, Tommy Smythe, because it's a perfect way to tie this conversation up. I want to thank you so much. Please get your ass to Urban Barn. Be like me. Go buy something and make your friend carry it down the street. I love you very much. I'm so inspired by you as a person. I love you too.

That really helped me through my day. I want you to know that. We don't always get a chance to tell our friends and colleagues when we read their social media posts of the boost it gives us. It cheered me on. And when I started reading your comments that were so positive and helpful and encouraging, I thought there's good people out there. There's good people. Yeah, there are.

And we know each other and we will be there for each other. So continued success to you. And I still have to have you come over for dinner in my vamped up pink and blue kitchen that I love so damn much. But Sarah and Adam and I thank you so much for being here with us today. Continued success. Urban Barn, Urban Barn, Urban Barn. Tommy Smythe Designs. If you need anything,

I mean, he might have time. He might not, but I'm telling you what an artist you are and you were such a good person. It's such a double triple whammy. I love you so much. We're going to link to all of the, uh, the urban barn stuff in the episode notes. So if you want to go take a look, just click the links. Well, you've been listening to the Jan Arden podcast. That was Tommy Smythe. And what an amazing conversation that was. What do you think guys? Like truly inspiring.

I'm so glad I started following him. Like I am like in the Tommy Smythe fan club now. Just encouraging, inspiring, and someone who really, really sets the tone for how people can actually be in life. They can be creators and doers and problem solvers and people that really cheer a lot of other people on. I'm so, it's very brave to make posts like that because as you know, guys, you set yourself up for a lot of vitriol on social media.

Yes, you would know. Next week, we've got so many things to look forward to, and one of them is going to be, drumroll, Brian Adams. Brian Adams is going to join us and talk to us about his appearance on The Jan Show, his new Christmas music, traveling, touring, all that kind of stuff. The Jan Show Christmas special, which is called Home... Jan? Home... What is it called?

It's called Jan. No, I've got this. I've got this. Cause we've changed it so many GD times. Jan alone for the holidays is going to air December the 9th on CTV. So check your local listings. So Brian Adams, Brian Adams, you guys, what do you think of that?

I can't wait. I'm going to have to get over myself before logging on next week. I'll be fine. Like I've met him a few times and I'm still kind of blown away that he said that he would do this. And let me tell you, everybody, he doesn't do podcasts. He just does not do them. We special. We special. So don't forget about that.

Anyway, thank you so much for listening again this week. We appreciate it and we will see you. We'll see you next time. Lots of great things coming up. We've got holiday shows coming up. We're going to be talking about Christmas and New Year's and prepping and food. You know, Adam, we always love to talk about Christmas food and what everybody ate and what everybody got and

So there's so many fun things to look forward to in the next three or four weeks. And we're glad to have you along for the ride, Sarah and Adam, as my, my Jewish co-hosts, you know, they're going to give me, we're going to, we're going to talk about Christmas, but we're also going to talk about Hanukkah and we're going to talk about what it was like growing up when all your fricking friends were having Christmas and you kind of weren't, but you kind of were. And did you get Christmas? Anyway, we're going to, we're going to cover it all. So,

Trust me, we're doing our homework and you guys are going to school me on when to light my menorah or is that the thing that goes in your head? Listen, I'm just digging a huge hole for myself. No, you were right. You were right. You were right. Okay. That's it. I can't wait. Lots to look forward to. We'll see you soon on the Jan Arden Podcast. See you next time. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.