Is Therapy Hot?
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Welcome to the Jan Arden Show and Podcast. I'm still in Toronto. I'm still doing book press. Caitlin Green is in Toronto. Sarah Berger's in Toronto. But we're all, we're still not together. We've still not seen each other in person. Listen, we've got a lot to tackle on the show today. Right out of the gate, I just want to say that someone, a listener, thought that Caitlin Green was drunk last week. They did. Why did they think

that. They thought I sounded drunk. I hope they didn't think I look drunk. My God, I didn't look great in the video, but I mean, I don't think I look that bad. We didn't buy into having to put up social media video clips. Like I look. Yeah. Yeah.

Demented right now. I think you look nice and I like your glasses very much. And you've got a nice little scape behind you. I have a nice brick wall behind me. Sarah has a nice collection of records framed behind her. But the reason was that sometimes when we record separately, Sarah has to put like a processor on our voices to make us either sound louder or fix things or she does her technical wizardry. And I guess they figured that something she did to my voice made me, according to them, sound like I was intoxicated. Yeah.

But I also think sometimes people, when they don't know, they tap on the speed with which they listen to the podcast. So I've had complaints before where someone will say, like, Jan needs to stop talking so quickly or I need to stop talking so quickly. But you can also slow it down. So maybe they slowed me down and I sounded a little... I have no idea. So someone thought I was talking too fast? This was back in the day. I need to be conscious of that. Okay. Listen, 92% of people out in the world say that...

As a couple, not going to therapy is a dating deal breaker. So what I'm getting from this, Caitlin, is that if you are swiping right...

And the person has not ever been to therapy, then we don't go out with them. Is that what this means? Yeah. I'm lost. Therapy is hot. That's the takeaway. It used to be that they would say they want someone who runs a marathon. I want someone who loves dogs. Now they want somebody who has gone to therapy. And Jan, you are single. And Sarah, you are single. Would you be extra attracted to someone or unattracted to someone based on their therapy experience? I don't know if the therapy thing is at all interesting to me.

I mean, yes, you're dealing with your problems, but I've never been to therapy in my life. Not hot.

Not hot. I'm not hot. And maybe therein lies the problem to where my life sits right now, that I am adamantly against a relationship of any description, that I don't want to live with anybody, that I don't want to share, that I don't really want a partnership. You know, I can see it now. Well, I can see that now that

Perhaps the unlocking of these doors lies squarely on the shoulders of therapy. The therapist you don't have. 2024 is right around the corner. You can watch Friends. You can go to therapy.

I don't even know what I would sit down and say. Hi, I'm Jan. I'm pretty fine with myself. You know what you would do? You would start asking them about themselves and you would become friends with them and you would hang out. And I don't even think it would count as therapy because you would wind up somehow becoming like lifelong bosom buddies. Okay. Well, that sounds like the kind of therapy I could get behind. Honestly, I feel like my, and I know what you mean. I think it's really important. And I feel like

If I wanted to get help that I would like, I've never felt like that so far in my life. I mean, through my parents deaths, through breakups, through, you know, just losing friendships. I don't think it's ever dawned on me to sit and have a conversation with someone other than the friends that I have in my life.

And I just have never even, I think even if you don't think you should go, you should probably go. You just had a realization. There's a light bulb that's gone off. But I mean, sitting and talking to somebody about, you know, being overwhelmed by social media and being overwhelmed by your job and feeling exhausted. I mean, we go to a doctor at least once a year for a physical checkup.

So it stands to reason that maybe people wouldn't find themselves in trouble

If that was a regular part of our health care. That's a good point. You know, once a year you go to your doctor, oh, have you gone and you checked in with this person that you see all the time? I mean, it would be weird if it was a different person every time out, but if that was part of health care, that it's not a requirement. I mean, you can't force someone to even go to the doctor if they have skyrocketing blood pressure or, you know, whatever. You can't force a person to do that, but

How great would it be if it was? Is it included in our health care? Does any, do you, either of you girls know? Some psychiatrists are OHIP covered, at least here in Ontario. It really depends on how they've chosen to run things and on how they're being paid and compensated.

I don't know that OHIP compensation is obviously the same or competitive compared to private. So it really depends. Like I was connected with a psychiatrist after our son died and she really works in like she does a lot of grief work specifically focused around pregnancy and infant loss. And much to my surprise, because like I work at Bell and so our mental health coverage is fantastic. I was expecting to pay for her and she said, no, I'm covered through OHIP.

But getting connected to her was done through like a variety of networks, through the hospitals, through other people who had lost children and connected me with her. So this was a rare sort of like an angel showed up. It was a referral. Exactly. And so it really depends. But yeah, you can be referred to a psychiatrist, but I do believe that the wait list for it

is really really long and so i think sometimes it helps if you say you need a psychiatrist who specializes in certain things like geriatric psychiatry or grief work or you know so there's yes my very long answer is yes it can be covered do i think everyone has access to it absolutely not like absolutely i think it's like average 500 bucks for most private back up here for a session coverage for the year so like 500 divide by you're gonna pay at least 150 200. oh no okay

Sorry, sorry. If you're paying $150 to $200 a session, you're getting maybe two and a half sessions. Mental health's all good now. It's not enough. Exactly. You've barely scratched the surface. I mean, yeah, so I had this coverage with her and I'm at the whims of her availability and how much time she has. She has a lot of clients, but I also see a private psychiatrist

who I pay for and she focuses on CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy. And that's talk therapy. It's not, not fully talk therapy, but it's sort of like logic based therapy to help you manage anxiety or distressing thoughts of which I have a few of.

so uh yeah so she's there to help with those types of things and she's fantastic at it but she's not prescribing she's a psychologist so she really focuses on that day-to-day management of stuff and but I think for you Jan like you're so introspective and you're good at that you also write a lot so whether you write non-fiction or fiction but you also write a lot of music in a way I feel like art is therapy for a lot of people and for a lot of creative people because you are able to

process and work through and focus on your feelings and how you feel about things in a way that maybe somebody who just like sits in marketing doesn't get a chance to do in their day to day. Well, I just want to say, and I don't know what people will think of this, but I naturally have a disposition, my brain chemistry, I'm always on an even keel. Anyone that knows me, I'm not super up. I'm not super down. I'm not manic.

I don't have mental health issues in my family, although my brother was incarcerated for practically 30 years for murder, which he says he didn't do. That's a whole other show. But I don't, my serotonin, whatever it is for me, my logic, my, I just never feel good.

On the edge of anything. I never feel lost. I'm very seldom down. I did deal with anxiety a few years ago. I certainly got anxious going on stage. I went through a period of where my heart would race and for some miracle, thank you,

Karen Carpenter, whoever shone their light upon me, I kind of got past that. And I'm as cool as a cucumber walking out there. It doesn't faze me if it's 40 people or 2,000 people. I would rather have 2,000 than 40. I find 40 way more freaking intimidating. But yeah, I just, I don't know what people will think of that. I just naturally don't have a disposition to...

to feel that kind of, I don't know, am I making any sense? No, I think that what you're saying speaks to the fact that mental health is health. And in the same way that someone may have a heart condition and other people don't, and some people may have issues with their back and other people don't, a lot of this is just, this is the dice roll of life. You know, you can be fortunate in some ways, unfortunate in others. And that's why when you need the help, you go and you get it.

And again, it speaks to like some people's brains and their chemistry. You're naturally geared to be resilient because it's not as if you haven't had trials and tribulations in your life. It's not as if you haven't experienced distressing times, but it's just that some people get that luck of the draw brain where it's like, you know, I can kind of handle this. It's not like I'm not upset or I don't cry or I don't get upset, but it doesn't feel like it's beyond my own personal management. And, um, and so that's, it's good.

I almost think that's helpful to hear because it lets people know that it's not as though everyone's just choosing to be upset about stuff. It's like some people are just fortunate and other people, this is an area of health that you should focus on.

Definitely. I mean, I have a heart condition. I take medication twice a day. I take beta blockers twice a day so that my heart doesn't click into 170 beats a minute. And I have to take that medication. So I understand that. And so I know...

That I have to ask for help when I feel like I do need it. And I do lean into my friends. But you know what? If one of my friends that knows me said to me, Jan, you know what? This is, I can't help you with this. This is beyond my realm. And if they were to say that to me, I would absolutely take their advice. I would, you know, buck up and take their advice. Like if one of my good lifelong friends was to say that, I really think you should go see someone because...

I don't know how to help you. This is out of my realm. So just know that everyone listening, I would absolutely take advice. I wouldn't just go, well, I'm at an age now where I would absolutely seek that out. Sarah Burke said that she went to therapy for what? To learn how to break up with someone. And after an hour in the first session, the woman was like, cool. And how about you now? Because I was talking about how bad I thought the other person was going to feel for an hour. And they're like, how are you doing with that?

And you were like, I'm actually okay. Once I get through this patch, I think I should be just fine. So now that you're dating, what do you think is more attractive in a gentleman caller or a lady caller, being a fire person or going to therapy? Because I know you have experience with someone who fights fires. So just saying. Firefighter who has been to therapy. Ding, ding, ding. Oh.

Double hot. Okay. Well, I don't know if you're allowed both, but we will accept that answer at this time. Going into our next chapter of this week's podcast, the Swedish concept of friluftslint.

Write your letters to bell 555-71. So basically it's free range children. It's letting nature. This is a hundred and sixty four year old on record thing that the Swedish people have done. They punt their kids out the back door, literally, and they let them climb trees, fall out of trees, break arms, I'm sure, climb rocks, go into creeks.

They put them out into nature and that's how they raise their children. I just saw, you know, a couple of days ago, a bunch of old pictures from the 60s and 70s of a whole bunch of kids lined up outside a coffee shop while their moms were inside having tea and crumpets and having a heck of a good time visiting. And their children were lined up

In their car, it's just, I mean, bundled up, but they're outside in the fresh air and they say that's wonderful for children. I am a fill-up-sliv child because...

that's what I did. I absolutely grew up outside. Yeah. And I think it probably, it's good for your physical health. They know now that it's very good for children's mental health. And this is why they do it. And they make a point of saying, it's not about just having nice weather. You get ready, you dress for all seasons. And this is a North country. This is like Canada, where they're going to have really cold days. They're going to have some messy weather. But regardless, they schedule everything

outdoor time and the person who wrote an article about this she's actually the author of a book called open air life there's no such thing as bad weather is another one of her books and it's all about the importance of being outside and she lives in Sweden and just said this is this is what we do here

And it is one of the reasons she believes why whenever they do those like world happiness scales, the Nordic countries score tippy top because they find a way to get outside no matter the weather. And it's so, it is so important, even if you're just going for a walk. But I see my son at daycare and the images of him when he's outside, he's going to parks. He loves it. And so now I'm like loading up on mountain equipment, co-op and like North face stuff for the winter because rain, sleet, hail, it doesn't matter. We're going out. We're going out. People might,

Parents gave two craps. Well, A, my father was never around. So I grew up really in a single parent home. And I mean that in all honesty, my dad was gone. Maybe that was a thing in the 60s and the 70s.

He was gone before we went to school and he came home after we went to bed. So whatever. Or it could have been alcoholism. I wonder what it was. Anyway, a little bit of both. So my mom couldn't cope. She was working part-time and sometimes full-time. There would be a note on the freezer. There's a meal in the crock pot. Don't eat it until 5.30. Make yourself some toast. But we were just...

outside. I was outside. My mom used to ring a big giant school bell that I still have.

for us to come home on the weekends. Oh my gosh, my dad said the same thing. This is like, this is the story of his childhood. He came from a family of eight and they would go out and then they would come back in when dinner was ready or when lunch was ready or whatever the case was. But otherwise you were outside, you were in the woods, you were making forts, you were playing with stray dogs, you were doing whatever kids did. And that was life. Where did that cow come from? Exactly. Exactly.

So yeah, and I think it's good for you. I mean, not that I think we're saying anything revelatory here. People know that being outside is good for you, but I think it can be easy to default into, oh, it's terrible weather. We should keep the kids inside. They might get sick, blah, blah, blah. Just dress them up and go out, even if it's for an hour. And the importance of scheduling that time, especially on the weekend, is it's up there in terms of how you handle your kid. Because I need to schedule time for us to go outside, even

Even if it's cold, we're going out. Well, I mean, now you go to these parks and they're filled with rubber beads. God forbid you should have gravel or asphalt. The merry-go-rounds are gone. The teeter-totters are gone for the most part. Swings seem quite, you know, they're not like the giant...

40 foot tall long chains canvas strap that went under your seat that you could literally do a Cirque du Soleil routine on these things now it just seems that you know when they talk about yeah our kids climb trees yeah the kids climb on rocks they yeah they get hurt yeah there's some injuries it seems like today and answer me this that people are once again parents are removing obstacles god forbid a child should get hurt um

I don't know. I mean, yeah, you don't want your child to crack his head open. But, you know, the parks, when I look at them now, they just look so benign to me. These little parks have a one-foot-high little horsey thing on a spring that goes back. She's calling them lame. Lame. She's saying parks are lame now, guys. When I was a kid, parks were rock and roll. Well, I just...

I mean, yeah, I got winded many times flying off America. I did. I was there and I wondered if my lungs were going to fill up with air again. I find that the parks near us, we live in a very park. I mean, Toronto is a ton of parks. Our tagline is a city within a park. And boy, is it accurate. The parks near me in the east end of the city. I got to say, Jan, you got to come on a park tour with Will and I because they're pretty badass. I will.

You could get injured. The one thing I love is that the cork board that you're probably seeing as like the ground cover in a lot of the parks now, I like that because it's not sand. And so sand gets in your shoes and it's like dirty and it gets into the stroller and just gets into everything. And it gets into your beer. It gets into your beer. When I bring my park beer, I don't need sand getting in it. So yeah, like I do find they've stepped it up. The ones in our neighborhood, they're

They're kind of like slick looking, like they're a bit cool. We have a merry-go-round. The swings still feel like there's some danger attached to them. The swings though now, many of the parks that I've been to, they have a special chair for children with disabilities, like physical disabilities, so that they can use it as well. And it's really inclusive. So yeah, there's an inclusive element to a lot of the parks too now that I think parents do appreciate.

there's still dirt, Caitlin. There is still dirt. There's still sand and that sand still gives lots of kids diarrhea. So that hasn't changed. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're eating it. The sand is a bit of a breeding ground for like germs. When you see a kid in general, they're like usually quite filthy and prone to being like sick all the time. And so, yeah, the sand pit is like you don't want to go over that with a UV light, but they have to build their immune system. So you go, they have some fun and, you know, one out of three of them probably gets diarrhea. Yeah.

Okay. You're listening to the Jan Arden. Hi, car. Well, no, it's true, though. So I do like the concept, but also I will just throw this onto the pile of doubt, is, you know, we're dealing with abductions and we're dealing with kidnappings and we're dealing with traffic. And I have to say that where I was, there was a car maybe once every three hours that went down the road. And it was usually filled with some kind of livestock or hay bales. And we just ran through these fields. It wasn't like there was...

nefarious people standing outside of the Mac store, you know, waiting to chat up your eight-year-old daughter. Exactly. So I understand these are different times. The 60s and 70s were very different. Yeah. I think playing outside while supervised is like kind of the dream here. If you live in a country like Sweden where they don't have societal issues that we do because they just have it figured out somehow.

then yeah, that's why they get to just dump their kids outside and women in Denmark can go for a coffee and leave their kids in the stroller sleeping outside and no one takes them. You know, North America is objectively worse than Scandinavia in most ways. So...

I went through Trinity Bellwood Park, which is the park that's kind of close to my condo. The hipster park, by the way. Okay, well, it's four or five blocks away and there's tennis courts and stuff, but Poppy and I were marching around. There was like three girls sitting on a bench. They looked about 14 to me. I'm usually pretty good with ages.

And they had their coffees, which was cool. And they all had their phones and they weren't saying one word to each other. I thought, well, at least we're sitting outside. And maybe they're looking at the same things or sharing their TikTok. I'll look at this or look at that. And I know it's a changed world. I mean, we had two television channels. So that probably wasn't very enticing for my young self to be either watching the CBC News or Star Trek because that's pretty much what was on after school.

And we didn't have video games. And I'm wondering, would I have succumbed to cable, colored cable television and video games? Like I'm probably being hard on younger people. Yeah. And I also think like younger people grow up quicker now because of their exposure. We had no farm. Yeah. That's the thing. And they have a computer that lives in their hand. Um,

Like girls now, like teen girls now just look so much more put together and cooler. Like I see the dance challenges they do on TikTok. And I'm like, okay, first of all, not only do you guys look like backup dancers for Beyonce, but you're apparently as skilled as they are. And I was just, I was, you know, listening to Ashante and like Nelly when I was a kid wearing like belly tops and I had a unibrow. Like it's not the same. There's so much more beauty standards have changed and like everything changes all the time and so much greater.

so much faster because of technology. We just, we can't keep up with it. I all of a sudden feel very old. What, just with technology changing as quickly as it does? Yeah. And like, what's cool? The new trailer for Mean Girls came out recently. It was the Mean Girls musical trailer. And in the trailer, they were like, this isn't your mom's Mean Girls. I was like, oh,

They're talking about me. I was like, you take that back. You mean cool aunt because that's how I self-identify. And I just thought, oh, I'm not part of the zeitgeist the way I used to be. Well, I don't know if you want to be. I can't. And I know that's important for young people, but there's no part of me that remembers being pressured to listen to certain kinds of music at Springbank Community High School. Okay. I just don't remember anyone feeling like,

I had to wear a certain thing. I mean, and I've talked about this before. Everyone smelled like shit. Everyone had chores to do before they went to school. There was like 60, 70 kids in the whole senior high school. It really is different times. And once again, I'm dealing with a rural situation. I know my friends that went to city schools. It was night and day, the pressure, the Adidas gazelles that they needed. Yeah.

with the Howick jeans that were flared at the bottom. And I was just wearing my brother's old Levi's and whatever shoes fit me going out the back door. So I'm kind of grateful for that. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. We have lots of interesting things to talk about today because we are definitely on the run up to Christmas. Don't go away. We'll be right back. Caitlin Green, Sarah Burke, Jan Arden Podcast and Show. We'll be here when you get back.

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What did I tell you? What did I tell you? Here we are, here for you. When you got back, you probably, some of you went to the bathroom, some of you microwaved your coffee.

Some of you pulled into your job parking lot and you're just sitting there listening to us and you're going to be late for work again. It is that time of year. There's Christmas stuff everywhere. After Remembrance Day in this country, trees go up, lights go on houses. Costco, you know, in such bad taste as always, had Christmas stuff the end of June, but that's just how they roll. But yeah, there's lots of things that make you feel

Very nostalgic around Christmas time. And I have a few of them here if you'd like to know what they are. Number one on the list is eating candy. Yes. 56% of people. What kind of candy do you eat at Christmas that's different from the rest of the year? That's what I want to know. I think it's like the peppermint bark. Do you know that stuff?

Okay. I love a peppermint bark. I know like people make their own, but I know they sell it at Williams Sonoma and then they roll out the like PC, the candy cane ice cream. So I sort of treat candy as like a catch-all for high calorie holiday snacks. And in Toronto, we have that really great, it's like an indie shortbread place called Mary McLeod's Shortbreads. Do they eat

I think they might ship those across Canada now, actually. I'm sure they do. They are so good. I don't know what Mary's putting in her cookies, but I can't stop eating them. And same with like Craig's Cookies. Craig's Cookies will do seasonal cookie flavors. There's a really great like boutique ice cream place at the end of my dang street, unfortunately for me and my waistline. But they do like holiday flavors. They do eggnog. They do Baileys. They do candy cane. Like it's just, it is the start of it all. Hot chocolate. Oh, hot chocolate. Exactly. Exactly.

Pumpkin spice, I found out to my sadness, was gone. But now we have sugar cookie oat lattes. Don't sleep on those. The peppermint mocha thing is back. Yeah, that's back. But I have no idea why they don't go all year long with these things. I think because they want the specialness. They want to create the demand. They want to create the moment. I mean, humans are inherently seasonal. Like we love a season. We love summer. Then we love going into fall. Then we love Christmas, anything. Like this is just what we're like.

Now, you have some percentages on the, so 56 was the top. It beat out opening gifts. So eating candy beat out opening gifts, which I think was at 52% or something. Is it in front of you, Caitlin? I'm not sure. So 52% of people say that opening presents makes them feel really, really nostalgic and brings back memories of childhood and family for them. And of course it would.

What's after that? After that, playing in the snow. It's a top activity to make people feel like a kid again. It brings back this feeling of I'm a kid. It's a simpler time. It's this nostalgia overload the second you play in the snow. And I'm telling you, if you are eight years old or if you are 58 years old, if you get on a toboggan after some fresh snowfall, you're going to feel good.

And I think we're going back to frill up, Slim. Yes. Here we are again. Just the whole idea of there's nothing like coming inside with those icy, damp, frosty eyelashes. And, you know, your hands are cold, your shoes, your socks are wet. And you just come in and you sit and you just suddenly feel the heat go back into your thighs. I mean, most of us are outside to go to our cars outside.

to go from one store to the next. And I just don't know. It's nice to see people walking again, like back to this Trinity Bellwood Park, man, there's people walking all over the place. Oh yeah. There's people walking with their copies. There's so many dogs, um,

Yeah, because don't you feel like when you go outside that you're earning your inside time or you're earning your snack? And when I come back in and I've done a big long walk or if it's, you know, ski season and you go skiing or if you go snowshoeing or whatever you're doing outside, when you come back in and you have rosy cheeks, you're earning your inside time.

and you're a little bit out of breath and your teeth feel a bit cold. It's like I've earned my hot chocolate. I've earned my episode of Real Housewives on the sofa because I feel like I've done something that I know is objectively good for me. And I've done a nice outdoor thing. It's the best part of winter, in my opinion. And I love a woods walk. If you live near the woods, Lord, do I envy you. Because the number one thing I do whenever we plan a vacation or we go to Collingwood, we frequently go to Collingwood, like a ski town here in Ontario in the winter. I always need a woods walk.

I just, I have to go do it. And when it's just snowed and it's so quiet, that super quiet sound of the woods when it snows, that is heaven for me. Trees know you're there. Like the stuff that they're finding out, the studies that they're doing on trees, and this has gone on for years and years, but the people that specialize in that, um, like a tree will let other trees know that you're walking through. And apparently they quite like that you're there. All these things are so bizarre to read into. Um,

Trees, they emit something that can cure cancer. Like there's something in trees. Like if they can tap more into what goes on, like the chemical stuff that trees put out there, they warn other trees of bugs coming or diseases coming. They can warn trees 400 miles away.

But a walk in the trees is physically making you feel better. It is actually doing something to your body that's biological. So that's really special that you recognize and you know that it just makes you feel good. It's good. And to connect therapy and frlutz, whatever that word was, they actually know. So there is a type of therapy where you have like, it's called rapid therapy.

eye desensitization, like I think it's R-E-D-M, something to that effect. And what it is, is they have you move your eye rapidly while discussing distressing things and going through traumatic periods of your life. And it's a very proven and effective way to treat PTSD. The woman behind it figured out that when she was walking and she was thinking about her emotions and thinking about things that had happened,

She was processing them in a much healthier way and she was more open-minded to new things and new ideas and she just, she felt better. And it apparently starts from when we were back in the day primates and we were zipping around the trees from tree to tree. As we would move, we had to always keep looking ahead and that our eyes and our brain, your eyes are really just like two pieces of your brain that are outside of your brain, like that are just sitting on the outside of your head. They're kind of the same thing.

So they just take in all this information and they allow you to process it differently. So as you're zipping around, monkey in the trees, go, go, go. That's where this all stems from because you started problem solving on the go, doing something as simple as that. Now, the way that they do this is if you're walking around the woods, you're navigating over trees, you're looking down at where you're stepping. I don't want to slip over this branch. What's that sound over there? What's this? What's that? And you're talking to someone else who you might be with or you're listening to a podcast and taking in information or you're just thinking about your own life.

You process things differently and it is a form of therapy. It's like walk therapy and they really recommend it. And especially during the pandemic when a lot of therapists started seeing clients outdoors, they would meet in parks, they would go on walks together. They said that they were making huge breakthroughs with their clients this way. So as much as it's like, A, it's good for you, it's good for you physically, get some fresh air, earn your hot chocolate, but also...

Think about how you think about things when you're walking alone. You're processing stuff out there. You're doing therapy, whether you think so or not. The trees are there for you. You're a big walker, aren't you, Sarah Burke? You're an outdoorsy girl. I wasn't allowed to go to the gym for the last two weeks because I had a minor surgery. And all I did was walk big, long walks every day and kept me sane. It was good. Yeah. It really does. It makes a huge difference. I've said this before. My grandma used to say the best time to go for a walk is when you don't want to go.

And that always made so much sense to me because you're sitting there, you're kind of cozy, you know that you're going to feel better if you move. But there's that part of your brain, that little devil on your shoulder that's like, oh, but you're so cozy and, you know, we can open a bag of chips and...

We'll just sit here and your show's coming on. I always, when I get up, strap on my shoes, get my coat and head down that road, it only takes me five minutes to realize, God, Jan, just get out there and do it. It's why having a dog is so good for people. Forces them to walk. And a child, you know, you got to get out there. Oh, yeah. And move around. You know, Will wants to see, he wants to do that processing. I don't know if you've seen that little viral video of a little girl. She's straggling.

strapped on her dad's, I think she's either on the back of a little carrier or the front. They're walking through a forest, Caitlin, and she's going, oh my God. She's two. Oh my God. Oh my God. Well, I started crying. All you have to do is just Google little girl awestruck by forest walk. And this little video will come up of the

The pure gratitude, I don't know if she'd never walked in a forest before, but her mom and dad are just, you can hear them going, aww. Because the gratitude comes through in such a way that if you're two and a half years old, looking at things going, what?

Is this wonder? And the other example I'll use is, this is a sad one, but it's a chimpanzee that had been in a testing lab for 30 plus years. This went around the world hundreds of millions of times here. I've seen it. It's so good. Okay. So he comes out into the yard and he'd never seen Skye. And he just put his arm around his companion.

And the look on his face, of course, we're always looking for human qualities in animals. We're always looking, oh, they're doing something that's so like human. Oh, they must think, they must have feelings. Oh, really? And it is, it's absolutely a gut-wrenching moment of coming out of a testing lab and looking up at a sky that was denied to this being for so long. And just the awe-inspiring moment. And you're not human if that didn't go through your body like that.

a shot of electricity because it really is something. Yeah. And that video got me. And also when you see cows going outside, either for the first time or if they've been kept inside for six months because they're dairy cows, when they get outside, like they are grass puppies. That's what cows really are at heart. They are kicking their hooves up. They're having the best time. They are so excited to be outdoors. And again, it speaks to the whole connectivity of the world. But like we need the planet now.

man do we ever need the planet we need our time outside on the planet we need to keep the planet safe because like this is our one little home i know we're saying that there are aliens out there in the world but you look at every single piece of life on earth and it benefits from frolicking around in the grass or walking through the forest or whatever we are nothing on this planet is an indoor creature like full stop every living being deserves that right yeah for sure

The way industrial animal farming, it's repugnant, it's abhorrent, it's immoral. And I mean, they're saying now by 2075, which isn't that far away, you guys will be alive, I'll be long since dead. But 2075...

They think that a good portion, 80, 85% of the world will be plant-based. For sure. Because like, I mean, we won't have the resources to support it, but I just think it'll be the way that animals are consumed now. And like, I'm not a vegan, but I do try to veer into vegan vegetarian territory and I'm

really careful about where we buy any of our animal products. But we're going to look back at the factory farming world and people are going to look at it like the way we used to smoke in a hospital. They're going to go, what in the heck were you guys doing? And it's like, that's just what I think. I don't think it's going to be looked back upon. Like, yes, this...

this was great. This was good for people's health and it was good for the planet and it was good for animals. Like nobody objectively is going to do that. And it's okay that everybody, you know, mistakes are made in human existence, but let's all move forward because I think we can agree. Any thinking person can look at this and go, it's just not a healthy way to do things. Your health for your, like for your physical health, but also your emotional and spiritual health. Like, I just don't think it's good for you to like have animals treated this way on mass. It's like, it's a

It's kind of bad. Thank you, Caitlin. I appreciate you saying that. As always, this goes by really fast. I'm here with Caitlin Green, Sarah Burke. We're all in Toronto. The sun is shining and it's a beautiful day. I'm still doing book press. I have an event, a bunch of events coming up with Rick Mercer.

And we both have books that came out this last week or so. And so we're interviewing each other and hanging out. You recently did an in conversation with Meredith Shaw. That's very exciting. Literally, as you know, a very close friend of mine and one of my favorite people. So the two of you hanging out warmed my cold heart a lot. She's so prepared. She's such a pro. Isn't she great? Yeah, she scatters joy. Like you literally see this woman walk through a crowd and it's like,

She just throws a sparkle in front of her. She really does. She really is a magical person. And I just, I am so happy for her. Yeah. On this new endeavor in her life. And I think she's just getting used to getting up at 3.28 in the morning and...

You know, all the adjustments that come with that. For anyone who doesn't know, it's breakfast television now. Yes. And she's managed to throw sparkles all over her lovely, but sometimes a bit like, you know, cranky co-host, Sid. So if you can sparkle up Sid, I mean, that's really something. That's a talent right there. Yeah. But yeah, so you did some stuff already with Rick. And so what are your upcoming dates with Rick? Like, where are you guys headed to now? I think if this airs when I think it's going to air, we are going to be headed to Winnipeg. Mm-hmm.

Winnipeg and then Calgary, Vancouver. Of course, tonight, as we're pre-taping this podcast, we will be doing an event here in Toronto. So I think that'll be fun. I think it's five or six hundred people and

Just hanging out, interviewing each other. You guys plan this. You write a book. No, you write a book. Want to interview each other? No, we got together and we just made sure that it all was, it's all lined up with stars. He's one of the very best guests we've had on the show. Like if you haven't listened to the episodes we've done with Rick Mercer, go back and listen to them. It is such a treat. Jan's story that she shared with Rick that involves a hockey net.

I will never forget in my life. Like on my deathbed, I'll be like, oh, like it's so funny. Now people are going to go back. They're going to be scrambling going back to find that. I'll link to it in the show notes. How's that? We'll make it easy. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you. As always, we're very grateful for our fantastic listeners that, you know, come back week after week and tell their friends about this podcast. And we would love to, I'm going to leave this to you guys. We have some comments about the

The worst roommates in the world. Last week, if you listened, we were just talking about, you know, just those zany young years where you're in a house with eight other people or whatever the case may be. Sometimes it was really cool. Caitlin's got some great experiences, but then there was other people that were just like, this was the worst time in my life. Brownie theft? Yeah, my soul patch having brownie thief. Yeah.

One time he also shaved his soul patch and all of his like wispy soul patch hairs got caught in our toothbrush, the girl's toothbrush in our bathroom. And we had our own bathroom and Al just marched in there one day. I hope he hears this. Al? How could his whiskers get into a toothbrush? I don't know. He just let them fall. He just let them fall willy nilly and didn't even bother to tidy up. Oh, man. Anyway, here's some listener comments. Okay, Sarah, I'm gonna let you start. Okay, so on Twitter, Heather said...

I had crazy roommates in university who had pet gerbils who had seven baby gerbils. They escaped constantly in the middle of the night. They were so mean for some reason and scratched the cage constantly and were so loud and always making whimpering noises when they weren't running like maniacs around the apartment. To which someone named JanJan47 replied, gerbils are supposed to be friendly? My roommate robbed beauty parlors. What?

Okay, so that was their exchange. My roommate robbed beauty parlors. I was going to say, did she at least give you some products? Like, I don't know. They were never out of hairspray. Well, the gerbils thing has triggered a memory for me because I historically, I don't know if I think I've talked about this in the show before. I asked for a puppy for Christmas and I saved up all my little kid pennies and I even bought food bowls for the beagle that I was dead set on getting. And instead I was rewarded with

gerbils when I came downstairs on Christmas morning and the gerbils we my parents thought that they bought two gerbils of the same sex and it was actually opposite sex and they proceeded to have enough litters that we had to give all the um litters away to the pet store eventually we had to donate the dad gerbil and eventually they escaped when we were away on vacation and they inhabited the vent system of our house for six months until we could get them all back and

And it's a whole, it's a thing. Gerbils are not like, you shouldn't have them. I'm just going to say I have them. They're small. They're cute. They're fine. It's like the trouble with Triffids that Star Trek episode. 1,000%. The little poppy thing. Like they were jumping all over this. It was like that. If you're still in the place in your life where you need roommates, I don't know about also needing a pet. That's what I'm saying.

That's my only comment. You categorically do not. You can't afford it, right? No. Anyway, here's some other things that we got. My worst roommate counted her food out loud. Maybe this was inspired by the brownie story. Who's this from? Elaine Wallace. Elaine Wallace. She says one carrot, two carrot, three carrots. Trisha Fife says my worst roommates were the ghosts that were in my first place.

Kim Dennis. You hear that? Oh, okay. A haunting. I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't manage. Jane Rachel says worst roommate left used condoms on her bedroom floor when she moved out. That person is sick.

And Wendy, I've only ever had one real roommate in my life. Not counting friends who needed a place to crash for a bit. We worked in Whistler in our early 20s. We ate cereal and popcorn for dinner and partied. Still friends today. My best and worst roommate is my husband from Cindy. Just be me 29 says my worst roommate did all kinds of things, but the worst was when she used my mascara. Oh, gross. You

You could get pink eye from that. Just FYI. I feel like, yes, you definitely can. The mascara wand is not to be toyed with. No. Like even, you know, any makeup artists, they always bring little throwaway mascara wands that so they never, they never actually use the wand that's in there. They always put in a,

The little spoolie. Wait, can I say something? I think we need to do a segment and I've always wanted to do this segment called Ask Jan where people either write in, they DM us or you can leave us a voice note or whatever. You get a hold of us on social.

And, you know, reveal your problem and then see if Jan can solve it. And then also you probably will end up getting some sort of a response from both Sarah and I as well. I apologize. I'll tell you right now, I will add to that. I will raise you. If we use your Ask Jan, so make sure you include some kind of an email that we can get a hold of you. I will send you some kind of a T-shirt. Ooh.

Yeah, some old swag. I'm not going to say what it is. I don't even know if I can guarantee. I can't take your size. None of that is going to happen, folks. It's not going to be that professional. It could be XXL. It could be medium. You might not even be able to get one boob in a sleeve, but listen.

If we use your Ask Jan, you will get something. You will get some old merchandise, a piece of old. I love that. So hashtag Ask Jan. Hashtag Ask Jan. But in the meantime, too, please, voicemails would be fun. We can even play your voicemails on the show. So don't be shy. Uh,

You know, Sarah and I were very, very blue this morning when we were talking, just like, wah, wah, wah. We have no voicemails. So I was tempted to disguise my voice and phone in going, I love Jan so much. And I have this problem. Like, don't make me resort to that, people. We'll put on really terrible accents if you make us. All the answers will be British. Listening to your show when it was fascinating. Get Nigel to do it. Yes!

Yeah, I sure. He loves it. He goes, I was bloody listening to you. He'll cover idiots. I was listening to you. I was out in the garden. But he does listen. He quite enjoys it. He'll tell me what we were talking about. And we have listeners that take us on walks with them on woods walks that I really like. I mean, it's a double healing whammy right there.

It is. It's us. It's trees. It's everything. But yeah, you can leave voice notes in Instagram and you'll be able to send us a DM. They have to be safe for work though, everyone. Like don't send us like, I don't need obscene callers. We don't need like deep breathing. And I mean, you can, but you're not going to wind up on the show. We're not acknowledging you. So no, we have a screening process. Okay. Yeah. There won't be more than a small t-shirt in your mailbox either. No.

You're getting a business card from my therapist if you do that. You've been listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. We hope you've had a wonderful time. We'll be here when you get back. We just discovered that today. And as always, hit that subscribe button. And that way it'll just show up in your mailbox week after week. We appreciate you more than you know. Send us a voicemail. We'll see you next time. Totally do.

This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.