No Guilt Trips
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Welcome to the Jan Arden Podcast, everybody. I am Jan Arden. I'm here with Caitlin Green, Adam Karsh, and I have a brand new puppy licking my leg, which is the most action that I have had in the last 27 months of my life. Maybe even longer, but I don't want to admit to it. Hi, guys. Good morning. Hi. 27 months. Wow. I've been single for six years this January. Six years.

Like, is that normal? I don't know. It just, it feels really good. And as the years go by, I'm really enjoying it more and more, which is worrisome. Well, I hear that happens.

But yeah, my dog now has stopped licking my leg. He's going to be 10 weeks old, I think, this weekend. 10 weeks, that just doesn't seem possible. But he's... He's super cute. He really is cute. And I'm really enjoying myself a lot. I don't, you know, I keep saying to myself, I'm going to love him. I'm going to, I'm going to love him. But I feel like I have a little stranger in my house right now. And I was talking to other people who have lost...

Mitty's been gone for like four months. And I was thinking, if I don't do this now, I'm never going to do it. Like, I'll just get really used to my life. I know I've told you guys that before. So I've got a crib beside my bed. And looking in at night at that crib and him looking out is...

The funniest thing, because he's literally suspended off the ground, like off the bottom of the crib and clinging to the side, staring at me, willing me to get up. So this morning we actually made it to 510 a.m. Oh, wow. That's early, though. Yeah.

he's like, mom, mom, mom, mom, if I stare at you long enough, will you wake up and cuddle me and show me some attention? Yeah. Well, it's funny. Like you get used to every, you know, dogs are so unique and you really get used to their presence and they have their own little personalities and they're, they're a little furry family member.

And so it must be strange to have this whole new person and you still have such memories of Middy and you always will. But that's the cool thing about love is it's not really a finite resource, right? You know, you got more to give. Well, this is what brings me to what I want to talk to you guys about today. And it's guilt because I feel, you know, I was lying in bed thinking, what is this feeling? What is the feeling that I have like in between the bones of my ribs? It's guilt. And when you look guilt up,

It's a moral emotion that occurs when a person believes or realizes, accurately or not, that they have compromised their own standards of conduct or have violated universal moral standards and bear significant responsibility for that violation. Guilt is very closely related to the concept of remorse, regret, or shame. So that's

I would agree with that. Yeah, so do I. I mean, then there are some people who you look around and you're like, I don't think they ever feel guilty. And maybe they really, really are. And I think that's a good thing.

I think it's a, yeah. I mean, also too, because I think to a certain extent because of COVID, and I don't know if you've seen this with your friends, but it's like you feel guilty for things that you used to just do normally. So I think guilt has entered our lives in a much more daily way because when you get thrown into this lockdown, everyone wonders, should I be seeing people? Should I be going out? Is it quote unquote wrong to want to go to the gym or dine indoors right now or see more than two people at once?

And so you start to feel guilty about those things because I think for so long, everybody was kind of relying on that moral compass to keep everyone safe before the age of vaccines, whatever. So it has had a bigger role in our life on a day-to-day basis that way. But otherwise, I think it's there anyhow because humans are introspective and we think about ourselves and our emotions a lot. What do you think about when someone makes you feel guilty? Like what...

I mean, I guess it's that typical idea of the Jewish mother. And when you think about how, and Adam can attest to this, how we think about, you know, Jewish people in television and film and in Broadway and in, and in art, you know, it's the Jewish mother that always gets the biggest laughs because why aren't you eating more of my pie? Everybody, you know, show me you love me. Have you've only had four pieces of pie, have another piece of pie. And,

you know, the Jewish guilt. So maybe you can answer that, Adam, of why, you know, why do we want to make people feel guilty? A good Jewish guilt. Here's a good one.

Jan, you do what you want. You always do. Oh, God. That's like classic Jewish guilt. I don't know. It kind of sounds sadistic, but if someone does wrong by you, you want to make them feel bad as a way to get back at them. I don't know. You hurt me. You hurt my feelings. I'm going to hurt you more, which is not a...

good way to go about it, but maybe that's where it comes from. Yeah, and I was like, let's not rule out Catholics. I'm Catholic over here. I'm like, Catholic guilt. Ooh, come on. That is up there as well. So, yeah, I do think it's something that people rely on in the absence of

rules necessarily all the time are rules being enforced fairly. I think people try to use it to get people to quote unquote do the right thing, but obviously that's not going to work out just that way every single time. And people feel guilty about things that they don't have to feel guilty about. It's just common. But there's people that go out of their way to make you feel guilty. It's a poisonous tactic. It is the weirdest tactic in the world. But like I said, I was just lying there thinking, what a useless thing

to impose upon myself and how it started to like affect my entire, as my days unfolded. And then I'm thinking, I feel guilty that I don't immediately have this enormous sense of love for this little tiny being because, you know, it, you just can't compare that. And love is something that grows over time. And, um, I, I mean, I am probably so jaded. I don't,

do not believe in love at first sight. I don't believe in love at first sight. I don't think I've ever experienced that. And I, you know, but I really, I mean, I adore this little guy, but I'm just like, oh, we got to, we're going to, we have a road to walk here. But the guilty part of it that is so self-inflicted, I'm just really struggling with that part of it. And I did it so much looking after my mom and dad.

This self-imposed guilt of that I wasn't doing enough. And, you know, when people have Alzheimer's, there's caregiver's guilt. They talk about that a lot of people. Like it was horrible putting my dad into long-term care. I felt so guilty. And I don't think my brothers did. I think they just didn't. Well, you know, he's got to go in there. There's no way around it. That's just life. I'm like, okay, I wish I could feel that way, but...

And I didn't realize how much guilt I piled onto myself, like even in work, like saying no to things in work. Like I think I've been kidding myself because that's what I've been doing is feeling guilty about, sorry, I can't do your charity. I just, I have nowhere to put it and we can't get there and whatever.

I've got 40 requests every month for charities and the guilt really fricking bugs me. Yeah. And a lot of, a lot is asked of public figures. A lot in some ways is demanded of public figures, you know, to be the way that everyone perceives them. And if you aren't, then you're going to hear about it from your fans and, you know,

You mostly just are outlining the fact, though, that you're an empathetic person. So, yeah, of course, you're going to be conflicted about, sure, is it medically the right thing to do to have a parent who requires more serious round-the-clock medical care than they can be provided for at home? Yeah, that's the right medical call. But are you going to feel emotionally conflicted about that? Absolutely, because you have a heart.

And the same thing goes for saying no to a charity. I mean, who wouldn't feel guilty saying no to charity? But the fact is there's only so many hours in the day. Unlike love, energy is a finite resource. And eventually you're going to run out of it. So you do a lot as well. Like not to, you know, obviously play coach and therapist here, but you're like you, you do cameos just to donate the money to animal causes and you have like the biggest heart. And I feel like that's typically what happens. It's like empaths.

really struggle with guilt and as they feel everything for other people all the time. And so sometimes, again, something you might learn to work on in therapy, if like me, you were in a lot of it, is that you have to set up these personal boundaries for yourself because you have to think of yourself as well. You have to care for yourself in the same way that you try to care for other

people and really assess how things are making you feel. How is someone else making me feel? How are these requests making me feel? And then say, okay, I'm going to take care of myself like I want to take care of other people so I can be there and supportive for other people on an ongoing basis. I'm terrible at taking my own advice. So is everyone. You know, I think I give out great advice. Like I, you know, I'm not going to ring my own bell, but maybe I will a little bit. But I have friends that seek my counsel on a regular basis. They're like,

You know, this is happening, this is happening. And I, you know, I'll sit down where I will cup a tea or, and I'm like, that was fricking good advice. I would genuinely seek out your advice. I would genuinely want to know what your opinion is. That is so kind. And I would absolutely want, want your opinions. Like if, if, and I, you know, I just, I would, but I'm just terrible at taking my own. Anyway, it's, it is very interesting what we have,

allow for other people to do like good friends. We give them some grace and we give them some, you know, some extra rope, you know. But when it comes to ourselves, and maybe it's been exacerbated by

lockdowns by COVID, by not seeing people. Maybe I'm just, maybe I'm overthinking everything. So I'm finally at that point in this pandemic, I think, that I'm starting to see where these little places are wearing thin. And I'm a pretty sturdy person. I'm a pretty steadfast, stable, you know, I just march along. I'm not a huge worrier, but I am starting to see the wear.

And it's showing up in the weirdest places. Anyway, you're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. Don't go away because we're going to be right back. And we've got lots of interesting things to talk to you about today. But listen, if you've got a comment about anything, please, please write us on Twitter at Jan Arden Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. And we'd love to talk about your questions and queries on the show. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Jan Arden Podcast. Caitlin was prepared to have a very good answer for me about, we're talking about guilt today, why we impose it on ourselves, why we cut our friends, our loved ones, a lot more slack than we give ourselves. And we've been talking about how this pandemic is kind of wearing on us. And I thought that I was doing really great. And now I'm starting to see the little, the thin frays appear.

in the fabric of my life. And, you know, I just didn't think it would ever get to me.

Yeah, and I think what seems to me like also is being outlined, and I think a lot of people feel it in different ways over different things, is grief. I mean, you lost Mitty so that you're still grieving that. And grief is not linear. You can say to yourself, oh, I'm doing great this week. And then the next week, for no reason whatsoever, you're thrown back into what you might view mentally as being a setback. Or I feel like I did months ago. I mean, I had a crash course in this all year. And so you just end up feeling like...

Like, oh, yeah, like we're all grieving things, whether it's, you know, a loved one who dies or a pet or maybe you lost your job or maybe you're reevaluating your career, your life. Maybe you have gone through a separation. Maybe you're just grieving the loss of, you know, what we all used to live like because of COVID.

And so I think there's this universal grief that's happening where everyone's grieving different things at different times. And it's so, it takes a toll on everyone. It makes you physically tired. You know, that type of feeling. Grief is exhausting. Like it really is. You're just tired. You're de-energized. You maybe aren't functioning at the normal levels that you do. You might find it hard to focus. You might find yourself a little edgy some days over things that usually would roll off your back. And I think that

you can't underestimate how much of a toll that takes on everyone emotionally. It just does. It's just, it's a different way of life and it is a process. So you were talking about how you're introspective and you're thinking of people making you feel guilty. Well, you're really, you know what you're doing. You're doing some good psychological digging. You're like processing everything that's going on. You're thinking about it because you're a reflective, smart person and it'll help you. It's not always comfortable work though. Like sometimes you just want to turn on housewives or below decks and

Speaking as my, how I feel. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to rewatch all the Harry Potters now because I've done enough digging around in myself emotionally for one lifetime today. How have people been in your loss with your son, Sam, this past year? I think it really is a quandary in so many ways of how people don't know what to say. They don't know how to approach you. They don't know, should I say anything? Should I ignore it?

Um, something so monumental that, you know, happened to you and Kyle and your entire family, your extended family, your friends. Um, how have you seen that discussion morph into, how has that been for you and for your husband?

this past 10 months? Yeah, it depends on the person, you know, and that's just so true of life. It depends on the person. Some people are just more inclined to like dig in and talk about it with you. And I'm kind of, I'm a bit like that, right? So I obviously am forthcoming. I've talked about the loss publicly. So that is how I deal with things. That is where I'm comfortable. And that's what I find helpful. And I think it brings people together. That's been some, some like, you know, sometimes you don't take a lot of meaning from certain things in life. I've taken a lot of meaning from this.

So I enjoy the fact that it's allowed me to have this sort of shorthand of grief with other people who've suffered losses. We can talk about it. And people who've just like they have that extra level to them, you know, they want to dig into it and they want to hear what you have to say and how you're doing and they care. And you kind of get that from people.

like you can just pick up on it. And even if it's not someone who you necessarily were super close with before, sometimes those people really surprise you. That's been a great thing that has come out of, you know, this loss is like people who you never knew you might've had this connection with all of a sudden they really care and they really show up and they're really there for you. Then there are people who you're like, uh, I thought we were really close. And then you're,

You're like, oh, you're kind of an autopilot person. Like you're not really there for the hard stuff. You're happy to go out for drinks. You're happy to keep it surface. But you're not going to ask me because this makes you uncomfortable. And that means now that a huge defining part of my life makes you uncomfortable. And I certainly understand that. And I know that that can be a lot of people. And I'm sure at points in my life, I was that person where this made me uncomfortable. So I try not to feel uncomfortable.

any way about it, but it puts a distance between you and them because I'm like, that's just not who I am anymore. Like my life's changed. I didn't get a say in it, but that's just who I am now. So you kind of got to live where you are. So I just feel like I'm like, that's, that's how I am. And if somebody is only here for the good times or they were previously only there for the good times with me, like not having a great time. So we're probably not going to hang out as much, but that's fine. Like we might come back together later. It's so interesting. The people that do surprise us that come to,

that classic story of people coming from behind, that they always wanted to figure out how to be part of your life and grief and loss and

you know, makes it, makes that the opportunity that they've kind of been looking for because they're that type of person. They can carry that load and that burden. I find sometimes like you were talking about the friends that just sit and have a drink, oh, let's share some nachos and, and just talk about, oh my God, did you see, and, and you know, it's there, but they don't bring it up and that's fine. You're not, you're not going to bring it up and, and give them, you know, kick the door open and say, here's your opportunity to talk about my son, Sam. And, and,

But do you find yourself consoling some people? Like I have found that too. I think I've seen a lot of people with illness. Like my friend's mom had cancer a couple of years ago. She's okay now, but she spent a great deal of her illness consoling all her kids and consoling her husband and lifting them up. And she was the one that was sick. And as, I mean, I'm not going to name names, but I just stood back and I was just like, you guys, you guys,

But I've talked to her since then. She's like, Jan, that really helped me with my illness. She goes, it took the focus off of what I was doing. And she goes, you know, I know my kids are kind of useless, but, you know, they were so distraught about, you know, probably who was going to cook their meals and do their laundry that, you know, that she just spent a whole bunch of her time picking them up. And for some people, you know, it is whatever feels right.

right, not necessarily right, but it's unique. And if you were in that role before and you were this caring person and this mothering figure, and you know, then something tragic happens or you become sick, but you get to retain that piece of your personality that might feel good. Or for some people, they might say, I'm too tired to do this and I've got to set a boundary here. And I think that's where you just gauge it on your own. And I think for me, at least that's where therapy is super helpful.

Because you can like talk about it and you can have sort of a neutral figure who's very well versed in this land to say, this part's feeling a bit off. Let's talk about that. And then it's like, okay, is this normal? And you're going to come, you know, not, I shouldn't say normal, but is this sort of, you know, below threshold? You can tolerate it a little more. Or is this past the threshold for you in terms of being comfortable? And now you've got to set a boundary, reduce your exposure to someone who might be making you uncomfortable, doing things to make you feel uncomfortable.

or depleting, right? Because support really should be flowing towards, inwards towards the person who needs it. So it's a lot of checks and balances. It's also like a lot more work than you ever have to do in your life emotionally before something like this happens.

And that part of it I miss. Like I do kind of miss the ease of just existing and not having to think about all this stuff. But that's like how many people can say that? So many, so many people can say the same exact thing. And that's why I think suffering is a universal human experience that ultimately can bring people much closer together. And I think, you know, and you touched on this too, Caitlin, that some people are so afraid to feel that vulnerability. They're so afraid to take on any of that pain.

And it's not that they're not sitting there having that drink and eating those nachos and not feeling this profound sense of grief for you and sadness. But some people can spend their entire lives never tapping into that place of being able to. And I bet you they leave situations going, why couldn't I say something? Why didn't I say something? And I'm just wondering...

You know, backing up what I said, how do we make it easier for people to have discussions around grief and around loss? Yeah, I think that's why I would try not to make anyone, on my end, further to your conversation earlier about guilt. Like, I don't want to make anyone feel guilty, right? They're so attached, aren't they? Yeah, and it doesn't help. Like, you're not going to feel better when someone else feels guilty. Has making someone else feel guilty ever made a single solitary person feel good in their life? I think it's made a lot of people happy. Ask Adam. Ask Adam.

He's like, hey. Yeah. To actively make someone feel guilty, like that's not a good trait. But we've all done it. Like, honestly, I know that I have done it. If I'm really honest with myself, when someone hasn't been able to show up or do something, and I'm talking, you know, 25 years ago, I'd be like, you know, I've said stupid things. Well, you just, you really let me down. I was really horrified.

depending on that now you're i know you're really sick and throwing up and but still i'm not saying like okay i am speaking of guilt i am guilty of doing that i remember you're gonna give me a heart attack fine i'll die i'll just die i'm gonna die fine my mother was great at making me feel guilty and she wasn't even jewish you know so many times that you know i'd want to go to a party and you know quite late in the evening like at 9 30 which was pretty late when you're 15 years old

And she dug her heels in. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. We're talking about guilt and grief and hilarious things are coming up. Don't go away. Welcome back to the Jan Arden Podcast with Caitlin Green and Adam Karsh. We're here for your emotional needs.

I don't know. It's just something I was working on on the break. Other podcasts wish they could have those back to intros. I know. Gosh, dang it. I came across kind of a funny little story. We'll take a break from our emotionally charged show today.

So lockdowns, a lot of things happen. When lockdowns happen, you don't have a lot of time to kind of organize your life. And I think that's been a big part of this. I think that's why grocery shelves went, you know, people took toilet paper. They didn't. And after the first lockdown, they're like, we don't know how long this is going to be. So we are going to get 40 kilos of flour. Jesus. So a woman in,

I want to say Zheng Zhao. Am I saying that? Okay. Is that close? Okay, it was in China. And last week this went viral on social media, the social media WeChat, which is huge over there. And she got stuck at a blind date's house. They had some kind of... So you can imagine in China, if they say, you're not leaving the house, you're not walking down the street, you're not doing that because you'll probably be arrested. And nobody wants that. So anyway, she...

She was only identified as her last name. She explained in her post that she had traveled to this town, the Lunar New Year. And, you know, she got introduced to this blind date by her family because they're trying to marry her off.

And she was going for dinner. And then during the meal, her dates community had gone into a really sudden quarantine because of a surge in COVID-19. And so she just was stuck there.

And I believe she is still stuck there. No. Is it going well? Oh, my gosh. And she's on TikTok. They have a version of TikTok. Because we don't know each other very well, Wang goes on to say, it was not so convenient for me to live at his home. I feel a bit embarrassed. Sounds like a rom-com in the making. I was going to say, it sounds like a Hallmark Christmas movie, but kind of gone sideways.

Why aren't we seeing that yet in Hallmark Christmas movies? I watched a whole bunch of Christmas movies this past couple of months. I mean, they started early in November. Well, they go all year, but...

That would be a great premise. Someone who has to like more regularly watch Hallmark Christmas movies than myself would have to let us know if the pandemic has found itself into, found its way into any of the Hallmark movie plot lines. Because I would think initially that that is a land where you don't want reality to live because it never has. People are going to Hallmark movies to escape the news and

They want to hear about, you know, the high powered lawyer coming back and settling down with the Christmas tree farm employee. That's what that's what you go for. You don't want to hear about. You should be writing these things, Caitlin. Well, Ms. Wang goes on to say, I mean, it's such a funny article. She says, besides the fact that he's as mute as a wooden mannequin. Oh, oh, my gosh. So, yeah, his food is mediocre, but he is still willing to cook, which I think is great. She said.

Okay. Well, she's not mincing any words. This happened in an office tower in Beijing also. Employees were locked inside of an office tower, again, because there were workers, I guess, who had tested positive. And so once they found out that this tower had some positive people there, they were like, nope, you're not leaving.

And they weren't given any warning that they would be put into lockdown. And so COVID control workers delivered pillows and bedding to the building. Security guards kept watch over the entrances. And they were completely sealed off. And a lot of these lockdown measures have been heightened because, of course, you have the Olympics coming. The Winter Olympics are on the way. They start on February 4th. And so they really stepped it up because they're worried about all these events causing even more spread. But...

Can you imagine the date that never ends and the work day that never ends and the date that never ends? Now we've gone from Hallmark movies to full on horror films. Well, she just said she was getting way too much attention. And of course he wasn't in on it. He didn't realize that she was putting this stuff up on TikTok and on WeChat. So he was getting all this stuff from, from his friends. And so she took a lot of the posts down. Yeah. He's like, excuse me. But it did, it did go on for well over a week.

Yeah, she's probably complaining about him and he's like, no one is getting my side of the story. You're like the world's worst house guest who never cooks anything and is super lazy and stuck here with me. Well, I'll tell you right now, if this was, I guess, anywhere but China, I would be out of that house so fast. You have no idea what would hit you. There is no way that I would stay there.

I would call a car. I would, I mean, I'm thinking if I was, first of all, I would never go to someone's house on a date. In a million years, I wouldn't go to someone's house. Would you, Adam? Would you go on a first date to someone's personal home? No, no, that's weird. Caitlin? Never, ever, never. Yeah, come over to my place. I'm at 111-666-99th Avenue, Southwest. Okay.

And yeah, we'll just hang at my place. There's just no way. No, it's too... I would drive my own car and I would meet in a very public place where there was people or at least 50% capacity people. I guess that's what we have to go for now. Yeah, you got to hang out a bit first. First date at someone's house, that's a bold call. Well, I don't know. I just would be out of there. Dating...

It just scares the living hell out of me. I have no desire to do it. I have read and seen so many questionable, weird things. I don't know if I should even say this. Chris, I hope you're not listening, but he's not on it anymore, but he went on a few dates back in the day, and I think this was probably very pre-COVID.

And he said, Jan, there are the weirdest things. He goes, I met at a Tim Hortons. I'm just going to say Tim Hortons. I don't think it was a Tim Hortons and Tim Hortons. I love you. And you can sponsor us if you'd like to. But he went, sat down, got a coffee and the guy went to the bathroom and didn't come back. Oh my God. So, I mean, I just, is that what it is? I mean, before you, you endured the dinner, you went, you had the dinner and

And you got hammered. I remember going on this date with this guy. His name was Keith. And have I touched on this with you guys before? And he's like, I'll have a double gin tonic and I'll get a half liter of your house orange liqueur for the lady. Like, do you remember? Did I ever tell you that? No, I didn't hear about Keith, the booze bag. Tell us more. Well, it just didn't go well. But we were just drunk. We got really drunk at the date.

And nothing happened, but I think it's because we had such a disdain for each other that it wasn't going anywhere from like the word go, that we just thought, you know what, we're here. We're probably going to split the bill and let's just get hammered. And then we never saw each other again. And here I am talking about him. Hi, Keith. Where are you? You probably own a Skidoo store in Smithers. Yeah.

Dating's tough and it can be kind of a bummer. And I have friends who are single and they're on dating apps. And I am surprised at the lack of effort being put into some people's profiles on these dating apps and lack of effort being put into the photos too. I mean, I jokingly referred to one dating app's entire slew of people as Terminal 3 at the airport here in Toronto. Yeah.

Because that's like the crappy terminal, I think, if I'm not mistaken. And it's like when everyone's catching the red eye and they're on like a really budget charter flight. And, you know, it's like people are bringing bags and bags of crap with them, a bunch of food that smells weird from home. And then like, you know, sweatpants or even I've seen people in full on plaid pajama pants boarding a flight. With skin marks. I mean, it's gotten...

Oh, yeah, exactly. It's gotten carried away. And then I started seeing that same aesthetic popping up all over my friends' dating apps. And they would say, they would constantly talk about how they can't meet anyone. And they tell me how bleak it was out there. I was like, can't be that bad. And then I did a quick scan through profiles and it was bad. It was bad.

It was really bad. So I feel for Chris because that happens. And then to think that you put yourself out there and if there is the person who you want to match with and has put some effort into their profile and so have you, and then they just flat out leave you on in the middle of a date. I mean, that's just being a human being one-on-one at least have the decency to say, Hey, I'm going to be upfront. Like this is just not going for me. And like, let's just, can we get the bill? And like, you know, sorry that this didn't work out, but.

you're a cool person. It's just, you know, the chemistry is not there. And like, just at least say that, which isn't a particularly nice thing to say. They think they're, they're not obligated to say anything. Like even something as grown up as I don't think I'm feeling this, but it was great to meet you and good luck with, you know, your t-shirt screening company. Yeah.

And I hope it goes really great. I got to live vicariously through my Jan character on the show in season three. And the writers had basically set Jan up on a celebrity dating site and

I think they called it soiree, which I thought was really super cute. So, you know, I'm punching in. We'll date men and women. I have no age range. And I think it might have been my niece that said, you have no age range? No, you need to put in a range. Anyway, you're talking to us, Jan, Caitlin, Adam, on the podcast here. And we're going to be right back because Adam has been winding his little fingers around rapidly. We'll be right back. Don't go away. ♪

Welcome back to segment four of the Jan Arden podcast. We'll bring you more laughs. Okay, I'm just going to stop now. I don't, I'm probably, people are driving off the road at this point. Yeah, dating, dating stories. I'm, and I'm going to be really honest here. I have absolutely no desire to date, which kind of I find bothersome sometimes. I talk to the show's friend, Rose Cousins. We talk about this quite a bit.

She's like, have you met anybody? Are you doing anything? I'm like, no. But what I was talking about in the Jan show, I lived vicariously through the character who went on, you know,

this dating. So she ends up dating Nate, who was played by a guy named Charlie Kerr, who is fantastic. I met him a couple of summers ago at a outdoor dinner party. He's 30 years old, I think. And I'm like, do you act? And he's like, yeah, I have an agent. And I'm like, how would you like to be my boyfriend? Well, I'm 59. And I think I play a 50-ish person on the show because I'm so youthful looking that, you know, I think I clearly get away with 54. Clearly.

Um, but anyway, it was so fun, even in a, in a, this, this altered reality to play having a young boyfriend. I mean, I had such a great time in season three, kind of exploring what that felt like. My ex-girlfriend was in the periphery. She wanted to have a baby and, and now I'm feeling, oh, am I missing out? I'm having FOMO because she's wanting to have

A baby played, Cynthia Taylor plays, sorry, Sharon Taylor plays Cynthia in the show. And so, you know, my character, of course, is dealing with a fair amount of narcissism, wanting to be in both situations, not wanting to give up either.

So I'm kind of like, how close to that is my own life? I'm not sure. Well, okay. So I used to take, one of my favorite classes when I was growing up was drama and I loved it. And I used to work in production and I studied production. So, you know, we'd write little short films and we would, you know, either direct them or produce them.

Okay, I found that doing some of those projects and playing different versions of people and seeing different versions of life come to life on camera, I found that satisfied part of how I wanted to live my real life, if that makes sense. So do you find that where you're like, okay, I've just gone to work all day and played this version of Jan and in it I've dated a bunch of people and done a bunch of things. And then do you find that you take that sort of imagined version

life satisfaction into your real life. Like I feel like it satisfies a part of real life. It absolutely does.

A friend of mine once said to me, it wasn't her quote, but she said, your mind doesn't know if you're thinking about playing the piano or if you're playing the piano. Your mind does not know what the difference is. So when a lot of people are incarcerated or held captive or in terrible situations, they can go to a place in their mind where they create a reality that's as real as the table that I'm sitting at. So I, Caitlin, that's a great, I mean, it's a great observation. And I definitely would come home at the end of the day feeling like, whew,

I'm glad I can crawl into bed by myself because having a boyfriend is exhausting, especially when he's 30 years old or 30 years younger than you. Well, you're like, I haven't dated in six years. Maybe this is satiating part of your dating desires. Yeah. I mean, it's worrisome on some level because I'm thinking, am I becoming this jaded, bitter person?

Like, older than I should be in my mind, living in the country, living in the trees, feeding the deers and the birds, having a small dog again as a companion. Like, I can, it's amazing what you can get used to. My friends actually said to me, like a couple of weeks ago, I fell in the yard and I cracked my ribs. Like, this is five, six weeks ago now. I cracked some ribs because I'm stupid and I wiped out and I hit a log. Right?

So they want me to get a medic alert chain. They're like, Jan, you live in the goddamn trees by yourself. Like, I'm sorry. We don't know if you're going to be like lying out there by yourself. You know, you don't always call. You don't always check in. And I'm like, I'm not getting a medic alert thing. Well, we're going to pitch in and get it for you.

It was hilarious. I've fallen and I can't get up like one of those. Yes, I've fallen and I can't get up. So then fast forward last week, I wiped out again. I stepped down in good shoes this time. Now I go out with my phone. I don't wear my glasses. I'm going out. I stepped down onto this, what I look like, it looked like a perfectly dry rock. Well, it had the finite little amount of ice on it.

And I saw my feet in the air and I'm like, oh, this is bad. I wish I had my medical alert tag on. So I landed, the bucket of seeds went everywhere. And I have this huge bruise across my thigh and I cut my knee. So now I'm just like, I don't know how or when it happened, but here I am.

And I'm falling in the yard on a regular basis. And it makes me laugh, but oh, God. Do you have an Apple Watch? I don't have an Apple Watch. I have an Aura Ring. The watch will say, have you fallen? Like if I hit the, if I accidentally hit the wall or something, and my watch will alert and say, have you fallen? And then you can like bing, call 911 right from your watch. So yeah, those little medical wear bracelets make people feel...

they're attached to, you know, people are like, am I one step away from a hover around? Like they don't, you know, they feel worried about it. So, and I get that. So optically, if you still want to feel like you're, you know, cool and with it, then get an Apple watch because if you fell and you couldn't get up, you could call for some sort of assistance using your watch. And so the wearable tech is the solution.

I do bring my phone with me now. But yeah, it's, it's, it's funny. And I, and I know we've kind of gotten off topic completely, but I don't, I do feel guilty sometimes about not wanting to participate or put myself out there because I still occasionally will have people say to me, are you interested in all in like having a coffee with blank? I'm like, no, like Rick Mercer was asking me, do you have any interest? There's a girl that, you know, she's,

she's in Washington, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, I'm just, I said, it's nothing personal. I'm just not interested. I'm, I'm, I'm not interested. I just don't want to go there right now. And then I put guilt on myself for not even being willing to go and have a cup of goddamn coffee with someone. I just, and it's not COVID. I can use that to an excuse to the end of the world. You can safely go and have a fricking cup of coffee with somebody. Yeah.

Well, also too, that's a lot of pressure. It's not like the two of you, it's not like Rick was out with this person and invited you to come meet them for a coffee and you were then given that organic opportunity to hit it off and spend time together. I think COVID has robbed us of some of those interactions, not all of them, but some where people would more organically meet each other in social situations. And some of those such,

situations have been reduced either in the number of people that are there or just the frequency that they're happening because that's how I wound up meeting the majority of my partners. Mind you, this was pre, um, yeah, this was pre dating app time. So I didn't really have any other option, but

Yeah, like if I thought of someone for you, Jan, it's like I would normally be like, oh, you know what? I'm not even going to tell her this. I'm going to wait until she's back in Toronto. We're going to meet for a lunch or something and I'm going to invite a friend or I'll text Jan and say, if you're in the city. They're going to be there. Yeah, exactly. I'd sneak it up on you. I would much rather you guys do that where I'm just like, oh, who's your friend? You know, they were cute.

Or really nice or smart. But yeah, just that blatant, here's the setup. This is what we're going to do. Here's the number if you want to call, if you want to reach out. I'm just like, oh God, no, no. And then I'm sure the other person feels bad because you're just shutting it down. But I just, it's not, it could be Robbie Benson. Probably no one even knows who that is. It could be Robbie Benson or freaking J-Lo. I swear to you, I'm just not.

Do you know who Robbie Benson is? I'm Googling him now. Yeah, he looks familiar. Ode to Billy Joe?

Okay. He's a handsome looking dude. Oh, God. He was cute. Anybody, please write in. Robbie Benson. I had a poster of John Travolta in a blue denim shirt. Oh, look at this hair. Okay. And then Robbie Benson, who I think became quite a good director and a producer. My God. I thought he was the most beautiful man when I was 15, 16 years old. Look at him. Yeah.

Yeah, he's aged really well. Okay. Is that the end of our show? Yes, it is. I'm sorry. We'll end on Robbie Benson. Please call us. Okay. Well, I didn't get to the Michigan University's cheeky annual banished words list, but I'm going to just give it away. The number one thing that they want banished, and then we'll say goodbye, is wait, what? Yeah, I know what you mean.

That's it. You've been listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. You can go on and subscribe to, on your favorite streaming, podcasting, streaming outlet, or whatever they're called. Please. Platform. Platform. Thank you. Thanks for listening. We appreciate it so much. Caitlin Green, Adam Karsh, Jan Arden Podcast. Leave us a review, for God's sakes. Leave us a review. We would appreciate it. We'll see you next time. Take care.

This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.