Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hello, everyone. I am Jan Arden. I am coming to you live, well, somewhat live, from Cancun, Mexico. And I'm a big surprise, but by the time I'm a big surprise, which is tonight, for the people at the corporate job, which is, I believe, some kind of a bank, I'm going to be
This, this will be on, but it'll already be, you know what I mean? Am I making any sense? Okay. Forget that. Forget all of what you just said. Caitlin Green, ladies and gentlemen, is sitting in front of me. Not only is she sitting here, she's running the show. So she, Sarah Burke, she's, thank God we got rid of her for a couple of days. She's in, she's in Nashville with her boyfriend and,
And it's me and Caitlin. We got the team, we got the band back together of our very long second season, which is like, I don't know, 40 episodes long already. Yeah. I mean, if you're, if you're listening and you start hearing the sounds of small explosions or your device starts smoking, it's because I'm in charge of recording this. I thought you were talking about your own personal gas issues or, well,
Welcome to the Jan Arden podcast and show. You are very, very missed. Oh, I'm with it. You've been with child and Will is so effing cute. He is a chubb.
puggy puppet. He's edible. He's so cute. He's enormous. He's nine months old and he is fully the size of a 15 month old baby. He's huge. Like people walk up to us and they'll be like, Oh, Hey little guy. Like what's your favorite color? And he's just like, I'm like, he can't talk. He's nine months old. He's not contrary to his appearance. He is not a toddler. So yeah,
He's big and chubby. He's well-fed. He's so adorable. And he looks exactly like you and Kyle. So it's kind of that weird combo. Like he just...
He, he looks like you guys. So, you know, that worked out in your favor because your child looks like the parents. It did work out. He's, he looks, he's like someone shrunk my husband and he also looks like my husband as a baby. And right now I'm in, you're in Cancun, I'm in Halifax. I'm staying at my in-laws right now. And directly to my right is a baby photo of Kyle. And it looks like, well, it looks like,
So genetics are just one of those freaky things where you're like, oh, yeah, this is a little teeny tiny carbon copy of us. But he's yeah, he's big. He's healthy. He is a handful, literally and figuratively. I have been so, so busy. This is not new information to anyone who has children, but you underestimate when they start moving and shaking how much you're going to be moving and shaking right along with them. So when bedtime hits, I'm like ready to turn off. Is parenting scary? Yeah.
Uh, yeah, it is kind of scary. Scary at first because you're scared about your own skill set. Like, am I capable of doing this? What am I doing? Why did someone entrust me with this baby? Yeah.
But then after that, when you kind of figure it out, which for me took like four months, then you become scared about other people and other things in the world. And so that enters into your mental capacity. So I stopped reading a lot about bad news. I have cocooned myself into...
into a world of baby info and reality television and entertainment news. Because if I read one more doom and gloom report about something terrible happening in the U S involving children or in Canada or wherever it is, I, my brain's going to melt. So I was like, I need a year. I need a year of onboarding with this giant cute baby before I can start paying attention to news again. I think that's a good suggestion for,
And a good kind of a tip for everybody out there. And I wrote about this in my book, If I Knew Then. Several years ago, I had finished the book just the end of 2018. And then it takes sort of a year. And then 2020, it came out. But one of the chapters in that book was not listening to the news and how it affected me. And I don't have a little person.
to deal with. Yeah. When I stopped, cause I used to get up in the morning, of course, grab my phone like everybody else in the world. And I would go to CBC or I would go to BBC or I would look up CNN. I know, I know I'm zany that way. And I would just kind of get an overview of what happened in the last eight hours that I was in this room.
And I always just felt jarred, Caitlin. I'm like, I shouldn't have done that. So it not doing that. And I tried it for like 30 days at first. Cause you get news through osmosis. Even when you're not on your devices, someone comes up to you and says, Oh, did you hear about this? They had another shooting. What? No, stop. Like, so, but yeah,
In general, huge difference for me how I got up. Didn't look at it. Yeah, I looked at Instagram or something, but I generally just had a fire. It was the middle of winter and now I'm out watering plants. So I do try not and be hooked to that grid and it's made a big difference.
I think so, too. And, you know, sometimes you feel more prepared to jump in and pay attention to the news, maybe around, say, an election, whether it's local or federal or provincial. You're a little more engaged in those specific issues if that's the way you lean.
Otherwise, it can be overwhelming. And there's so little you can do about it. I just, I'm not in the mood to pop into the news right now. I'm just like how you were. And it has helped. And it's a weird feeling, though, because people will say, oh, my God, this big, horrible event. That was crazy. And I just, for the first time in my life, reply with, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know. If it's not what happened on Friday,
whatever Bravo show I'm currently addicted to, or it's not about baby development. I probably don't know much about it right now. And it's been really nice. How have you changed since Will? How have you and Kyle? Like I can kind of feel it with you. I can hear it with you. Yeah. The pre-Will and the apri-Will. So what do you think has changed?
Initially, I was obviously far more stressed. I had postpartum depression for sure. So that's something to kind of read. You have to figure that piece out. A lot of it is hormones, but a lot of it is the new life that you have and that you're responsible for. So that's overwhelming. But once that settled in, I think you feel in some ways more confident and more capable. And
And in some ways for me now, kind of more things roll off my back a little bit more. I'll say that because you get hit with,
sleep deprivation and your child gets sick and you just learn to deal with stuff that before I think really overwhelmed me or I saw other parents doing it. And I thought, oh my God, I could never do that. That's why I thought maybe I shouldn't have kids. I don't think I could deal with it as well as they can. So you do get a little confidence boost because you're just, you figure it out. And it's really nice seeing a baby every day. It's really nice seeing
other people with your baby. I love that. I love seeing the people that you love and that are in your life, love your child. It's really sweet. I love seeing him with our friends, kids. And one of the sweetest things ever too, is there is this shorthand connection between senior citizens and babies.
they just love each other. So when we go out for our walks, when we're in our neighborhood, it's so nice seeing people just kind of ask you about your baby and go up to him and make him smile. And on the flight to Halifax, he's popping his head up over the seat and the guy behind him is playing peekaboo with him and he's just howling. So there's a different side to the world that sort of opens up and it's way cuter. It's really cute.
And, and it's really nice. It does. And parents have this little club where they want to help each other out. They want to tell you it's going to be okay. You know, yeah, you'll get through this phase if the phase is difficult or enjoy this phase, if it's really, really nice. And there's a more of a feeling of community in that way, which is, which is reassuring. And it does take you for me, at least obviously, because I'm on maternity leave. If you're a bit of a workaholic, it
takes you away from work for a little bit and not in a bad way for for me in the kind of a nice way because i think that there was an imbalance for me
with placing so much importance and so much of your personal identity in how you're doing at work and how successful you are and to take away from that and then be still really happy is like reassuring because you're like, okay. And you know, media, media is a crushing soul crushing place to be. Sometimes you wonder how you're going to do if you're going to make it and then to leave for a minute and to still feel super happy and satisfied with your life. That's, that's good for your mental health. I think.
And there's certain things you still kept up on, right? Because there's going to be some stuff that we're going to be talking about today. It's hard to really ignore the entirety of the world, but I would imagine having a child would be like the biggest kind of media blocker out there because it's, especially as a first time parent, it's, Caitlin, I cannot fathom it. Like,
Like every time I think people are like, oh, do you regret not having kids? And I'm like, no, I would have been terrible. I would have been an absolutely terrible parent. And people always say, no, you would have been great. I know I would not have been a great parent. I didn't want kids. Yeah. So.
There's parenting tip number one. How many times have I heard people say, and these are good friends of mine, I didn't even want kids. My husband wanted kids. I didn't want these two. And you'll hear them going, Mom, we can hear you. No, I mean, I love you, but I didn't want you. And I mean, it's funny, but my one friend in particular is really earnest. She's just like, no, I really had to hunker down and go,
You know, my husband really wants children. And I said that I wanted children too when we went down this path. When we got married at 24 years old, I was like gung-ho. And then four years later, when we'd kind of settled into our lives, I'm like, I don't know if I want to do this. And it was like a game changer as far as, oh, I guess I'm... Anyway, it is got to...
It's got to be difficult. I know there was times when my parents just were like, why? Why did we do this? What were we thinking with three children? You have those moments. But for me, I think the overwhelming positive benefits of him in my life is
far away. Those really difficult. And I won't sugarcoat it first few months, but once you do sleep training, once he started sleeping through the night, I was like, Oh, at least I get half my day back. So that part's nice. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast. We're going to be right back with Caitlin green. Don't go away. Welcome back to the Jan Arden podcast and show. I'm here with Caitlin green. Caitlin has been on mat leave.
Um, what did we do? What did parents do before there was sleep training, Caitlin? So I'm going to ask you that my mom and dad didn't have sleep training. Your parents didn't have sleep training and now they have, you know, they have lessons for your baby to latch on because a lot of babies don't go to the nipple right away. They just, so there's lactation nurses that will come to your home to teach you. Correct. Correct.
So sleep training, what did your parents do? They didn't do anything. They, they struggled and I didn't, I wasn't a natural sleeper. I was a very alert child. And so was my son. Will is very, very alert. And so you basically through sleep training, your child essentially cries a bunch and then they figure out how to self suit. We tried ourselves to sleep. That's what we did. We exhausted ourselves. Yeah.
Well, so, but what happened with my parents was because I was so fussy and I was so awake, they were always coming in to try to help resettle me. And then what that meant was I needed someone else to settle me down.
And so they're constantly waking up with my dad slept underneath my crib on the floor at times. I mean, and then I have sleep issues. I had sleep issues a lot as a child and I still have some sleep issues now. So I think that it's just a helpful because every added support that you have as a new parent is so life changing and it's,
You just back in the day, everyone just toughed it out. And a lot of people ended up sleep training their children in larger families simply because you didn't have the bandwidth to take care of the baby, to pay all of your attention to that one child. So if that kid wakes up in the middle of the night screaming and you're already up with two other kids, yeah, they're crying themselves back to sleep. So sometimes you would just have these huge families where that happened naturally anyways.
And then other times when it wasn't being discussed, you just sort of had to wait it out until the kid figured out their sleep rhythms. And some parents now still don't subscribe to sleep training. We have friends who don't do it. They don't want to hear their child cry. They don't like it. They're much more into attachment style parenting, which is where the baby's in bed with you. You will nurse them. And we just that wasn't for us. It's super personal. Yeah.
So we just wanted our life back. Our son did not like sleeping in the same room as us. He wanted his room. He wanted his crib right away. Yeah, he was like, get away from me. He wants people to sneak out when he's 15. Like you can't be sleeping with your parents. Exactly. Well, it's so great that you've had this time and let's hear it for Matt Lee even being able to
you know, get into parenting and find your way and have the support of, you know, your work. And it's just, it's just been so great to watch. And he really has grown. He's, he's such a little, they're not babies for very long. Let me put it that way. They don't seem babyish for very long. It feels like two weeks. Oh, now we have a little person. We had two weeks with a baby and now we have a little human.
They get teeth, they get hair, they're funny, they get little personalities. It's honestly so great. The sleep coach that we had, that we used, we should have her on the podcast when I come back because she does not only things for parents of babies, but parents of young children, of teenagers. And she does, she'll go to speak to companies about sleep deprivation amongst their employees and insomnia because
It's everybody. Everyone you talk to has issues with sleep. We've talked about it before on the show and she was just so reassuring and fabulous. And so we should talk to her. Her name's Alana and I just, I love her so much. So yeah, sleep training. I think I honestly think that just the same way they put importance on,
breastfeeding. When you leave the hospital, they give you all these tips and get appointments with the lactation consultant. They should talk to you about sleep because it is such a huge part of your mental health. When you leave, they should tell you exactly what to expect. Here are the names of some sleep coaches. Here's an outline of what to do. Like I have been trying to tell all of our friends whose kids are still struggling with sleep, what we did, because I really, it just saved our bacon. I was losing my mind until we did it.
I'm glad that you've had some sleep. You seem very alert today, which is why we're going to switch gears. And I want to talk to you about what you've been watching lately. I know that we talked a little bit before we started recording today. And I guess right out of the bag, the coronation is still big on people's minds and how they feel about
The monarchy, I mean, we're part of the Commonwealth here in Canada. Our podcast, we're all Canadians. And so it was a fairly big deal here. And there's lots of hilarious memes and there's lots of pros and cons, I suppose. But it's tradition. There's thousands of years of tradition. Well, not thousands. Well, kind of thousands, right?
I watched clips of it on social media, basically. I wasn't going to sit down and have a viewing party or anything. At 2.30 in the morning. Yeah, exactly. But it looks ridiculous. I can't help but say that. Because of the outfits and the jewelry and the crowns that is probably made up of jewelry from nations that they plundered back in the day. All of it is just... It feels very...
Very outdated, not altogether of this time. And when we are also living in a time and in the UK as well as Canada and North America where everybody's really struggling financially, a lot of people are really struggling financially and we have been hit hard with, you know,
inflation and the cost of living increases and wages not going up to watch a bunch of people who were already exorbitantly wealthy and powerful, you know, get into a gold pumpkin and prance around or whatever. Like it just, it, it rubs me the wrong way. I know some people love the tradition and love the, the monarchy. And that's of course why they still exist. But, uh, that, um,
I felt as a millennial that I was like, what in the heck are we doing? I just don't. Plus, I also felt like the queen just had such a long reign, right? She'd sort of been through so many things that when she passed away, it felt a bit like,
When, you know, Charles is going to come in with Camilla, who's like problematic in her own ways. I was kind of like, won't won't like it's not the queen. Like it just isn't the queen anymore. Sorry. So I didn't pay that close of attention. I followed some of the stuff of like I saw the photos of Harry leaving with a big smile on his face.
And I saw the little kids, like Kate and what's the other prince's name? William. I saw Kate and William's kids. They were cute. Like, I don't know. That was really it. There's hundreds of millions of dollars at stake because the monarchy for me is very much about tourism. I can't imagine the amount of money that it brings in to the UK, to Britain.
People, I mean, I'll tell you what, I went to Osborne House a few weeks ago with my friend Nigel. Osborne House is on the Isle of Wight. It's where Queen Victoria spent a ton of time with her nine kids. When her husband Albert died,
very prematurely, he was like 42 years old. She sort of put on her black dress, went to Osborne house. It ain't a house. It's a castle. I think the day that we were there, I would imagine there was probably nine or 10,000 people that made their way through Osborne. So it's taking a ferry over to the Isle of Wight, but it was so beautiful.
interesting. It was so amazing. There were 400 year old trees and I kept, I couldn't help but thinking, and I, and I love history. You know, that has not changed in the last nine years. I was going under old oak trees and old fir trees that were hundreds of years old. And I thought, oh, the kids probably played on this tree and they probably were up in those branches. So it was very, it was a really lovely day, but I wasn't really focusing on
That part of, you know, how they colonize so many countries. And I mean, it must have been a very difficult thing for the indigenous people, I would imagine, to witness. I know that he that King Charles met with indigenous leaders, Canadian indigenous leaders,
before the coronation. So I wonder what they spoke about. I do like the fact that he's very much a climate crisis believer. I very much like the fact that he made comments about the 150 guys with bare skin and
big hats on that he said is antiquated. I'm uncomfortable with it. A fake fur hat would look quite well. And he wants to end a lot of that. Yeah. And so that might be, that's the part about obviously Charles as King that remains to be seen. How open is he to changing some of these traditions? But ultimately when you see, or when I see, I should say the, the,
the monarchy today, I'm still reminded of the fact that they have all financially benefited so exponentially from the subjugation of all these other places in the world. And
It just, it's, I, that's the only, that's the piece that I struggle with because you can still be a very good person yourself. Like he might be a good person and some of the royal family might be very good people, but it's just, I'm like, you're still here and rich and relevant and powerful because of these horrible things that happened before.
in the past as a result of your family and your policies. And some of them were around when the queen was around. And so it's, it's hard. I know times change. I hope that it changes for the better a little bit, but you know, you go online and like, I have friends who are from obviously the Caribbean and stuff too. And they talk about how they feel about the monarchy today. And I'm just, you know, it's a tough conversation, especially when you're like a regular, just kind of whatever Canadian citizen. I don't know how, um,
like I'm not so attached to them, I guess, because they're not, it would be different. I suppose if you were in the UK, a lot of people I know who are from the UK, they really, they still really have such an emotional attachment to them, which I, which I kind of get, but yeah,
It was, it's so much the outfits, like the jewels. It's still so that it's still very that, um, I know they can't have him going around in like a Prius or something, but the Pope did that. Like the Pope, this Pope changed that to try to just be a little less ostentatious. And I think that would have landed really well with people.
Well, some people would say that the monarchy is very much about stability. And I've heard that before, the tradition of stability. And there's something comforting about having a sameness, having traditions. Anyway, it's very much a split thing.
a split feeling. I think the world is very divided on monarchies in general and we'll see how it unfolds. I mean, is William going to want to take over from his dad? Like the guy's 74 years old. It might not last a long time. But yeah, Queen Camilla, King Charles III, it seems odd, but
We'll see what happens. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast and show. I'm here with the fantastic Caitlin Green. We're going to talk about the Met Gala when we come back. There's a whole bunch of different queens and kings at this thing. We'll be right back. We'll go away. Bye.
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I figure in the next year, I figure in the next year we will have Caitlin back. So Met Gala, we were talking about the monarchy and all the pomp and circumstance, the scepters, the thrones, the jewels, the robes, the mink, this, the links, that. It is pretty wacky to look at it and very antiquated. But however, the Met Gala.
Lots of controversy this year, a tribute to Karl Lagerfeld, who didn't like fat people. Apparently he didn't want his clothes on overweight people and was kind of misogynistic. And even though he created fashion for women, it was a weird thing.
In this day and age, can we not think of a better tribute for the Met Gala than Karl Lagerfeld? Anyway, what do I know? I enjoyed, though, seeing some of the people who you know he previously would have discriminated against wearing clothing at his tribute. Like seeing Lizzo. Yeah. I'm like...
I was kind of like, okay, well, you know, you're going to people, they're going to honor him. This is the fashion industry. They're going to do what they're going to do. But then to have the invite list very much not reflect that part of him, which was so problematic. I got kind of a thrill out of, but again, I didn't really watch it. I was like, this isn't, I saw, I saw bits of it on social media. Sometimes I said, okay,
oh, that's kind of an okay outfit. Most of the time I just thought this looks ridiculous. And I do think that we're in this era of camp when it comes to pop culture and entertainment. And so you see, you know, Doja Cat is there as his cat and she's only meowing when she talks to the press. And Jared Leto is dressed in a full, like a mascot level cat costume. And you're like, this isn't fashion. This is ridiculous. And it's,
It's supposed to be this spectacle, and it is a spectacle, but it's jumped the shark for me. A lot of it has. And so I don't really pay... It's jumped the cat. I don't really pay attention. The cat thing? Did Carl like cats? I'm guessing. See, I don't know shit. I don't know anything. He had a cat named Shoo Pet, and he left a huge pile of money to this cat, and it's just... It's bizarro land. It's when people talk about Hollyweird, it's this. It's this.
And so that feels really out of touch. But if you look at it as a joke, it's very entertaining. So that's kind of what I did and what I'll always sort of do when it comes to those types of events. So I just think it's a big joke. And if you can look at it and laugh and then say, oh, here's one or two outfits I like, then, you know, I like seeing Rihanna. I always like seeing Rihanna. I'm a fan of hers. I like seeing her in her maternity outfit. I like seeing her with her, you know, with ASAP Rocky, with her partner.
that I like. I mean, I like who I like. And then everyone else, I'm kind of like, Oh, what are you doing? But I don't, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks this. I don't know three quarters, maybe even more of the people, like 80% of the people, um, young ingenue type. I don't, I don't know if they're actors, singers, artists, creators of some sort, but
I, like you, after the fact, we'll graze through social media to see some of the, you know, the photographs, but I don't know most of the people. So I feel disconnected sometimes. I feel like I'm not keeping up with whatever's happening out there. Some of them are TikTok stars. Some of them are social media stars that are on there for no other reason than they have nine and a half million people following them because they do
videos about the newest gadgets. I don't know. I really don't know how it works. They really opened up the invite list a few years ago. And a lot of that changed when the Kardashian started going, because for a long time, Anna Wintour was like, no reality stars will be here. And then I guess they were pushed to change that so that they attracted the younger audience to the show. But it doesn't, you're right. It feels very different than it used to. And
And I'm not as reverential about it as I think I once was or interested in it. I don't view it as this big, amazing high fashion night. It's just, it's literally people wearing costumes that you would see at Disneyland. Like it's just, it's crazy. So I think, hey, if that's entertaining to people and it works for them, great. But I don't, it doesn't do much for me. I still am more interested in actually when it comes to entertainment, talking about
an album I love or a show I like, or a movie that I like versus, Oh, what did who wore a fuzzy hat to the Met Gala this year? Like, well, I think the, the vibe gets more and more, I think distant from the reality of how people are living their lives. Like sometimes even these, the award shows and things like that, you and I have talked about that for years about award shows and how out of touch they are with,
how people are living. Most people can't afford 16 bucks to go see a movie, nevermind celebrate an award show. I don't know. And I feel so conflicted about awards because I've obviously won awards in my life, like Canadian screen awards and things like that. But I don't, I feel so much different now than when I was 30, when I was 30, I wanted to be recognized for my work and,
And for what I was doing, and it just seemed like the thing that I should be doing is being part of that. And now I'm not going to say there's shame, but it's not important to me. It's not, it really isn't important to me about awards and, and the fame thing and all of it. It just, it's so far away from me now.
I'm wondering if you feel, I heard a quote and it's not a recent quote, it might be older, but it's from Matt Damon. And he talked about how when he won his Oscar, which was this thing he was chasing and he thought was really, really important that how after he won it, he got home and he kind of felt sad because it didn't feel like he was going to be able to do it again.
It didn't actually do anything for him. It didn't give him this feeling of completion. And then he said, I feel for all the older stars who win it finally and wanted their whole career. But you get it then and you're like, I've chased this for 20 years and it actually isn't making me feel any different about myself or my work.
Like, did you ever find that when you're, yeah, you win this big award because you've won so many and you get these accolades and then you kind of get home and you're like, I don't know, this isn't maybe, how has your perspective changed on that? Do you feel like those are worth chasing or are you kind of like, guys, don't worry about this? Well, I look at it this way now. All those things have given me a platform to help other people, marginalized people, you know, unhoused people,
um, to bring attention to that, to bring attention to horses being shipped from Canada to Japan for very, a wealthy client to eat. Like I, without any of that, I would just be kind of lost to the void because there's billions of us vying for the same little space on social media. So I figure with my measly 340,000 followers on Twitter that I can leverage my
being known, leverage the awards, leverage being in the Canadian Music Hall of Fame, that, you know, people will still question my relevance. And I get that. You're a relevant fat hog. Like, who cares what you do? Well, obviously you care, sir. Hey, you're here saying something. Banana1357, you care because you just retweeted me and asked what my relevance was. So you're, you're, you're
magnifying my messaging. So that's what it's good for because fame, other than that, Matt Damon's very correct. You get this thing home and you're like, wow, now I'm going to feel good. I liken that to people that have always wanted to lose 30 pounds or 20 pounds or 50 pounds. And they get there and they're like, I'm going to be, no, I don't, I'm not any happier. It hasn't alleviated my anything. It's, it's changed the way I look, but I'm still in here.
in this body. So I think people have to be mindful about what those goals are and what the end game is going to be. And, and happiness isn't a thing. It's certainly not a plaque or a statuette. Doing the work is so rewarding in itself. Doing what I'm doing is rewarding every day. I'm, I'm in Cancun about to do a corporate job. Like I said, at the top of the show,
And I'm looking out at the water and I literally went to bed last night and said, thank you. I'm very grateful for the opportunities that I have. And I'm playing for 400 people.
tonight. And I'm going to just feel joyful and I'm a surprise. And I'm so glad it's going to be a really fun night and a memorable night. You know, they'll be looking out at the ocean and the wind will be blowing in and their company is celebrating them for the work that they've done. It's a special time. It's not something they do every year at this company. It's like,
once in a decade or it's pretty cool to be doing this. And then they have to go back and like, say they saw you. They're like, Oh my God. And then she said, they surprised us with Jan Arden, you know, and then that'll be a nice story that they take with them. That's nice. Yeah. It's really cool. And hopefully it's interactive and, you know, you can call people out or, you know, they'll have had a few drinks and yeah, Bob wants to sing with you, which I'm totally, um,
I'm so up for having someone come up on stage and singing. And then I don't know what's happening in your world, but the lifting of sort of the who lifting the COVID pandemic and changing the language on how the world is viewing the pandemic. I mean, for the first time in three years, I was on a plane coming down here without a mask. And I felt weird and I thought, you know what? I just, I'm going to let my guard down a little bit and not, because no one else had one on, which is not,
Well, everyone else lit themselves on fire. So I did too. But it felt, it's a different vibe down here for sure. Oh yeah. Yeah. We flew down and you know, there were not a lot of masks in the airport or on the flight. And you can see, like you said, people want to let their guard down a little bit and test and see how it goes and see how it feels for them for sure. Um,
it's just so cool. I do think what you said about the work being like the greatest reward is really true, especially too with your TV show and everything. Thinking about the fact that you just made everybody laugh or lightened their spirits for half an hour of the show and when they would come and see you live, like you're so funny with how you engage with the audience.
well as giving them a great song that I'm like, that would be what I would think as a performer, you really take with you is like tonight you gave everybody a good night, a night off from the kids or from their work or from their busy life. And you just gave them a good time. And that's, that's sort of the reward. Well, one thing that I very make sure that I do, uh, is even on social media, like young artists, people that are singing, can you listen to my song? I always do.
And, or even if I catch something on Instagram or something, someone's singing a song or this is my song. I always send a little note. That was really amazing. Good for you. I think that makes a difference. I always wonder what would I felt like at 16 years old to have Bette Midler or, I mean, I'm not saying I'm at that level at all. Sorry. That's not a comparison. I'm just saying if it was someone like that, I admired sending me a note and
Um, you know, I remember Libby Newton, John listening to some of my music years and years ago and writing me, sending me an email and saying, you know, how much you like this song and that song. And I just, I would read it again and again. And that is more than any award that anyone could ever give me.
You are the greatest person in the world award. I don't even care about that award. Like Olivia Newton-John sending me a text. And I remember I bank that Caitlin. Yeah. And like, that's how I want to, I aspire to be. I want to encourage people. Words of encouragement are the biggest, brightest, most powerful thing. And I would imagine, um,
With parenting, having you talked in the beginning of the show of other parents sharing, you know, ideas and having them cheer you on. I'm sure you'd rather have that than someone hand you a plaque and going, hi, your parenting skills last week were amazing and we'd like to give you this plaque. But it's the same thing, isn't it? Yeah, honestly, amen to words of encouragement because they really do keep you going. And yeah, you'll remember that more than any award. I love that sentiment.
We've got a few more things to talk about with Caitlin Green before she leaves us. This thing is ripping by. Don't go away. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast and show, and we will see on the other side of this. Don't go away. Welcome back to the last. How did this happen? The last segment of the show. I'm here with Caitlin Green. Caitlin has been on mat leave and you know, we were doing the podcast for a couple of years and then, you know,
She you've been at home with Will and you've been parenting and now it's it's getting there. You have to think about coming back to work. And that's got to carry so many layers of just complications and worries and anxieties. So how do you begin to unpack that, Caitlin? Yeah, it truly is an onion of emotions where you're like, it's it's layered because
Part of you is excited about getting a little bit of that identity back because it changes so much and shifts so much so abruptly when you have a child. So the notion that I would be having like sipping a latte while casually going through emails, um,
is so foreign to me because right now I'm always rushing. Like I've carved out a little bit of time to do this and then I rush back out to grab him and rush to put him down. And then the second he goes to sleep, I'm like racing to clean up and then shower or whatever it is. You're always running until the day is done. So I'm sure there's obviously elements of that that will remain, but yeah, giving him to daycare will be challenging emotionally, but it will be also, I'm sure, challenging
Good and healthy in a lot of ways. Also, too, I love seeing him with other children. He really loves other children. So I try to remind myself when I get scared and sad about him going to daycare. I try to remind myself of how much he does really like being around other children. And it's important for his social skills to do that.
but it's scary. It's scary to figure out. What's your timelines for that? Like you, you guys have been together for nine months. So there's a lot of anxiety. What is your timeline? I know you can't really say a lot, but yeah,
is it going to be this, this year, like 2020? It'll be like around the end of summer, probably ish. And, um, but he could be accepted into his daycare. Like they've guaranteed us a spot, which we're fortunate for because it is the hunger games out here to get into a good daycare in Toronto. Yeah.
So we got into a bow and arrow fight off the other children will totally. So it's, he's, he's in, he's in the daycare we wanted. It's close to us and they've opted into the government subsidy. So for the first time ever in Toronto, we will have a semi reasonable monthly daycare payment, which is great, but yeah, it's hard to hand him over. And it's also hard to hand him over knowing as well that he's,
all of us are going to get sick for like a year because everyone gets sick. You just get inundated with virus after virus after virus before COVID even happened, right? It's obviously way worse with COVID now, but it's, it's the viral load is crazy. Our next door neighbor is an ER doctor and her children go to the same daycare that we got into. And she said, if they let you in in July and you're not going back to work until August, um,
put him in in July, put him in in June because the viral load is lower. And I was like, oh my God, I hadn't even thought of this. And she said, oh yeah, no, you'll be sick for a year. And like, it's crazy. So there's a lot to consider with the change of moving them. I've never heard anybody talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. Are you legitimately telling me
that you're just going to go from cold to flu to cold to strep throat to, Oh my God. Yeah. And I'm the kind of person when I get sick, I lose my voice, which is kind of a problem in radio and podcasting. So yeah, I mean, fortunately we, like you said, we, in the previous segment, what the heck did our parents do before we're sleep training? And so now it's like, what the heck did everybody do before we talked about the fact that part of putting your child in daycare means the whole family gets sick. I,
I bet you workplaces were like, oh, these deadbeat parents always saying they're sick and they're probably just tired or they're at home with their kid, you know, watching Disney movies. But it is a real thing. I mean, my ER doctor neighbor will tell us it's a very real phenomenon that occurs. So you're going to be sick for the first year. So there's that challenge. There's lots of challenges. So it's hard. I never heard my mom and dad talk about anything like that. Did you guys go to daycare right away too? Like, how was that? I think I was in kindergarten.
At four and a half. Okay. But I was home with my mom. Dad worked. She didn't. I mean, we're in the 60s, Caitlin, the 60s. And it was different, but I just don't recollect any of that. It's so different now. I mean, parents do go back to work, but my mom, I don't think, worked until...
I was probably nine, 10 years old, 11 years old. Yeah. My mom was home with me until I think I was in grade one or two when I was in kindergarten. In school for sure. Yeah. And so I got sick when I went to school. And so that's what I've been asking friends who have children of varying ages, you know, do you, if you get a nanny or you're home with them, does that change your,
And they just say, oh, you're just delaying it. Like it's going to happen no matter what, when they go to school or when they go into daycare, when they leave the little cocoon of just you and them going to the park and doing your little activities, they'll get sick. And we see it now, right? Like we're,
Like the only time Will has ever gotten sick and the only time I've ever gotten sick, truthfully, is when we see other people and other people who've been around children who are in daycare or who are at school. That is the number one factor. And it's not, I'm not saying COVID all the time. I'm saying anything under the sun. Like it could just be, we got hit with Norwalk because we had spent a bunch of time around kids. I'm like, great way to lose five pounds, everybody. Like just the worst two days of my whole life. But yeah,
it happens. And it's just because there's, there will, you know, they're going to school and a little Petri dish. So, Oh God, I know I'm not, I am not truly very emotionally ready for that part of it, but we'll, we'll handle it and we'll go back and he'll, you know, hopefully like his little daycare. Everyone says that their kid goes from crying when you leave them to running away from you, excited to go to school, like loving their little pals. And that part of it, I think will be really, really sweet. But, um,
We've been lucky that we even got into daycare. But he doesn't walk yet, right? No, not yet. He army crawls. Okay. So we got the army, the elbow thing, the low down to the ground. So daycare involves people like they just carry him around and put it. I mean, I know I sound like a lunatic asking these. So there's cribs everywhere in this daycare.
And you'll be walking by then, ideally a little bit, like probably like a stumbly walk. And then, yeah, so there's a different ratio of caregiver to children for under the age of 18 months. And you pay a bit more for under the age of 18 months. So from 12 to 18 months, it's a little more expensive and there's less kids.
And then at 18 months, when they're closer to being trained in a whole variety of other ways as well, you have more kids with the caregivers. So they can expand it a little bit. So they're pretty well monitored when they're this young. And my husband can handle the mornings. I won't be around in the mornings because I'm in morning radio. So he's on the house at 430. Yeah, I'm out of the house at like five.
You're out of the house at five. Yeah. Before you go, can you just comment about Marilyn Dennis and Marilyn Dennis after 23 years on our televisions every day is leaving daytime talk. I know. I'm sad about it. I know. It's crazy. She's going to keep doing radio. Yeah. So that's the first thing people will always be like, Oh, Marilyn,
retiring and I'm like from TV. So she's staying with Chum. She's staying with the radio station. But yeah, so the Marilyn Dennis show is ending and she's just been such a comfort and kind of like the gold standard, you know, in television broadcasting for so long. So and I thought maybe I was like, you know, you never know, right? She's done so much with her career and she she can kind of write her own way forward if she wants to. So I was not sure when she would wrap things up, but I was like, oh, my
on when I saw the news. And then also that it's like wrapping up in June of this year. So they'll have all these special shows coming up and ways to honor her. So I'm sure it'll be kind of emotional, but it's a, like, it's a big deal in, in Canadian broadcasting for, for people who's. I was so surprised. Yeah. I was so surprised. I'm going to be doing one more appearance on her show.
I'm not going to let people know when it is, but I'm taping one more appearance and I'm really looking forward to it. It's going to be very bittersweet. I'm sure it's got to be emotional for her, but I love the fact that she said, listen, I've got a granddaughter and I don't want to miss this.
So when we were talking about, you know, going back to Matt Damon saying, you know, he gets the statue and then he's like, what do I do with it? Do I set it in the bathroom? It doesn't really change the trajectory. It doesn't change how I love my children or my wife or like all those things that we think is important. So Marilyn is,
I love that she is exactly that person that we see day after day, being this funny, charismatic, empathic person. And she wants to be with her husband and a granddaughter. And she sacrificed so much to entertain millions of people week after week. So I'm really glad for her. It's sad, but
But it's going to be great to see what she does next. I'm relieved that she's staying in radio so that I come back and she's still there to talk to every day. And I think that's a nice in between, but you know, you do really, you see that it's like, okay, this is a really amazing stage of life where she's a super active hands-on grandmother and her and Jim just love each other to bits and they want to spend time together and travel together. And she's,
when you're, you know, you're healthy and you've got all this exciting stuff going on in your life, you want to maybe just do that shift a bit. And it makes me envious. You hit an age, like I have a very large birthday happening this year and you start looking. And I'm like, you look ahead and I'm like, man, retirement looks sweet. Now it used to feel like retirement in some capacity felt, you know, like, Oh,
Oh, sort of like, what will you do? And now I'm like, I don't know. It's not that way anymore. Everyone still does so much exciting stuff. And it's just, I feel differently about it because I'm obviously inching closer to all that stuff myself. And it's just, I don't know. It's kind of, it's kind of exciting. I mean, bittersweet, but because we're still snagging her on radio and she'll always be doing a million things. I felt, um, I don't know that sort of alleviated some of the pain. Yeah.
Well, I'm yeah, I just wanted to hear your thoughts on it. I'm really glad she's staying in radio too. It's it's a, but imagine, I mean, radio is one thing, like you said, getting up early. So Marilyn is up super early. She has been for over 30 years, folks, 35 years now.
I've known Marilyn for a long, long, long, long time. So just imagine getting up between 4 or 15 every single day of your life and always having dinners like at 5. But anyhow, and now with that, add a daily television talk show.
onto your day. They've got to be, and there's rehearsals that are involved with your guests on TV talk. You know, there's walkthroughs, there's all these cues that you have to know. There's picking your clothes week after week, hair and makeup every single day. It is exhausting sitting in a chair. And I know this sounds really kind of vain and silly, but it's getting your hair done. And it's just, it's so tedious. It's not glamorous all the time.
Marilyn Dennis, we love you. And thank you for all the laughs. Thank you for the entertainment. Thank you for being the most gracious interviewer. You always make every person sitting in front of you the star. You always make it about them.
She does, doesn't she? She does. She just shines a light. And for honestly being so, you know, inspirational to so many women in broadcasting. And honestly, I would never have gotten into the place that I am without her. Like she was the one who suggested I do these trending segments. You know, she really helped me along the way as she has with so many other people. So that's sort of her spirit. Encouragement, Caitlin. Full circle moment. Absolutely. Encouragement. So I hope she stays on radio forever.
Yeah. Well, listen, that's a great place to leave this. Caitlin Green, I hope you are back on our show soon. I hope you're back at CHUM soon. I hope everything will keep tabs on you with how daycare is going and how many illnesses you get this year. We'll be counting.
We'll keep a card for you that just says, no, you had bronchitis three weeks ago. I think you've moved on to strep throat. Yeah, you'll hear me back on the show and I'll sound like Stalker Channing after she's had 10 packs of cigarettes and you'll be like, oh, Caitlin's sick again. Very sexy. Very sexy. Thanks for being with us today. You are very missed here at the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. We've got lots to look forward to. Caitlin's going to be back. She's coming back, folks. She's coming back.
Look after yourselves. Thanks for listening. Hit subscribe if you want to. It makes it easier to find us week after week. Give us a star. Give us a review. That helps people find us. You can listen to it on iHeartRadio or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'll see you next time. Toodaloo. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.