Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Okay, welcome. This is our first On The Road podcast. I am Jan Arden. You are listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. As always, I'm here with the wonderful Caitlin Green and Sarah Burke.
Joining us on the show this week is a woman you may already follow on Instagram. I just started following her. She has been reading tarot cards for 35 years, and she's been helping everyone from celebrities to CIA operatives to have a conversation with their soul, with their inner self. Her card of the day, and who doesn't love card of the day or horoscope of the day? I'm such a sucker for that stuff.
And a lot of times it is so dead on. I have to tell you that. So she's doing car today readings on Instagram and they're being viewed by tens of thousands of you guys out there. People from all over the world take part in her moon rituals. I want to know a lot more about that. And those moon rituals have inspired the upcoming release of her book, Burn Your Shit, The Life Changing Magic of Rituals.
Lori Deanne, thank you so much. I love you. Thank you. It's the best intro I've ever received in my life. Where did your interest in tarot card reading come from?
It's so interesting because first of all, I think everyone's intuitive. Some of us just have the volume turned up more than others. And it's more trusting it that kind of turns the volume down. But I grew up in Calgary, Alberta, and yeah, yeah. And there was a psychic in Calgary named Erica. And this was like late 80s. And everyone knew Erica, my dentist went to Erica. And I was just enthralled with her. I've always been interested in the metaphysical. And I was like,
And she did tarot, palms, crystals. She had like red velvet wallpaper. She was the whole thing. And she was a legit witch. And she mentored me in tarot. That's where I learned tarot. Tarot just spoke to me from day one. It was like, oh, there you are. Like it was love at first sight.
You can get some really, really gorgeous tarot decks too now. Like whenever I go into some of those stores that sell these cards, and there's usually some really cool group of people working there that will direct you to, oh no, you got to go and hold the cards. Like don't just buy them, go and hold them and have the cards speak to you. I was with a friend of mine several years ago and we went into a shop in Kensington.
And this girl was adamant. Like, um, she said, did you hold those? She took them up to the cash register and she said, have you held the cards? And she's like, uh, no. She goes, can you just do me this favor? Go hold all the cards. Well, she ended up not buying the ones that she had. Yeah. Wanted to buy. She went back, set them in, shut her eyes, held the cards. I had to go plug the parking meter, you know, because we needed more time.
You describe yourself as woo-woo without the cuckoo. Yeah. Which means, you know, that there's a lot of skeptics always attached to this kind of work. And maybe you can speak to that. Well, definitely. I think woo-woo without the cuckoo just gives people an immediate sense of my approach to tarot because I obviously take it very seriously. I've been doing it for decades. I use my original deck. Every reading I've done is in my deck. And
I'm not goofy about it. I'm not going to be saying like, say goodbye to grandma. Like, that's not my thing, you know? And Tarot gets a bad rap in popular culture and all the movies. It's, you know, the fortune teller with all the craziness. And she's like, oh, death. And that's not what it is. Tarot is, I always say, it's like a conversation with your soul. You know, I'm the interpreter. And Tarot, these cards are just pieces of paper with pictures on them. And each picture tells a story. And then together, they tell the story of you.
And what you do with the information is up to you because you have free will. So anyone ever saying they're psychic, who's saying like, if you don't do this, this will happen. I always say that's goofy. Tarot has always been something that was of interest to me. And so then I saw your account. I can't remember if it was recommended to me on like the Explore page or I don't know how I came across it, but I came across it and I started following you. And I started doing this during the heavy duty lockdown phase of the pandemic, which is I think when a lot of people discovered you.
Is that like true? Is that when, that's when sort of like things changed for you? Yeah, because before it was very much in-person readings and everything went online and it just absolutely took off. And I think people were so disconnected
They're looking for a way to connect with themselves, with their communities, with, you know, higher power, spirituality. And things like tarot and astrology are a means to do that. It feels like that was when we were collectively going through this trauma. But you're doing this. It's like collective trauma that's happening in isolation. And everybody wanted to be distracted and also kind of empowered. Yeah.
And to hear a little bit, you're forced to like go inside, you're forced to, you know, do some of that internal work, whether that's good or bad. So when you did my reading, which was recent, which was fairly recent, even though we'd kind of been like circling each other for a while, it was really...
It was very accurate in specific ways. Obviously there's stuff that's going to be accurate in more general ways, but it was quite accurate in specific ways about stuff that I was dealing with. Some of it was really positive stuff. Some of it obviously is like harder personal stuff. So how do you, when you're getting like goosebumps, like you said during our reading that you had goosebumps a bunch of times because the same messages kept coming through over and over again. So how do you deliver the things that you know are coming through with certainty if they're negative? Like how do you handle that for people?
Such a good question. I always say there are no bad tarot cards, they're just bad tarot card readers. So the messages that come through, some cards are definitely more fun and some are more work, but it's never like, "Ooh, this sucks. See you later. Where's my money?" It's more like, "Okay, you're going through it. Here's a different way to look at it," or, "Here's a way that you can navigate through it," or, "Here's what's waiting around the corner," like in terms of just the energetic landscape.
So that it gives people tools and something to work with because you want to empower someone to be able to make the best decisions and take action for themselves. You don't want to abdicate responsibility of your life to some rando with tarot cards. Yeah, I like the part where you always reinforce that we have free will. So you're going to get this information, but what you're going to do with it is different for every person. Exactly. I'm always curious as to what friends and family think of this type of work and going into...
And obviously when you start to monetize and make a living, you're no longer working for
in retail or whatever it is that you started off doing. You said you've been doing this for 35 years. So what were their reactions when you were like, this is not going away, folks? I mean, I always had the cards at parties or, you know, practicing on people when I first started. So they were always, the cards were always there. Like it was like, oh, there she is with her cards. And I actually have a communications degree. I worked in corporate communications and
And I always tell people, this is the God's honest truth. I didn't get fired from a few jobs because of my tarot. I would take my clients for lunch and give them tarot readings because I wasn't great at the other stuff. But it was sort of like my little like, hee hee, this is my little hobby. This is my passion. This is a fun thing to do at parties. And then when I started to
realize like this is what I'm really good at and this is what I feel I'm here to do because my mission is very much inspire, empower, and enlighten like people. And I think you can attest to this, Caitlin, is like the readings you come out of it was like changed and it's empowering and
So to me, it was like I couldn't not do it. And I do have some relatives who are fairly religious. And again, tarot with the stereotypes that this is devil worship, this is dark art stuff. It's not at all. It's pieces of paper. So-
You know, the people who aren't on board. All right. See you later. And that comes with age, too. I think you can agree with this, Jan. Yeah, it does. Who gives a shit, you know? Yeah. You're not going to lie in your deathbed going, oh, gee whiz. I really wish I would have spent more time with the people that were
uh, outwardly opposed to my life and my choices and things like that. You, as you get older, you, you literally realize that the people in your life are so important that you need to have people that when you leave a room, you feel uplifted. We've talked about that a lot on this show and the girls are behind me a few years, right? I'm the, I'm the matriarch of this group. And so whenever I hear some of their quandaries, I'm just like, yeah,
But they're way, way more ahead than I ever was at that, you know, in my in my late 30s and 40s to be assertive, to do their own thing. So you girls are I was still kind of catering to people and trying to I was the proverbial fourth grader going like me, like me. I'll do anything. I'll you know, I actually used to go to parties when I was, you know, in my 30s and 40s and people would say, make us laugh, Jan.
What are you talking about? So yeah, it is our choices and how we go forward. But yet, like you said, you're going to be the person at the party that everybody, even if you don't have your cards, which probably is a rarity, oh, can you do a reading for me? Like, I really, I want to make some decisions about my job. And should I marry this guy? And you know, what's going to happen? And is Arthur going to go to college? So I'm sure you're inundated much in the way that I am
for can you sing a song? Can you do this? And that's kind of a pain in the ass sometimes. Yeah. And I mean, my cards, I always say there are no yes or no cards. So yes or no questions aren't going to work. And I do tell people, you're on the friends and family rate. So you never have to pay for readings. And I have no problem because I'm very confident in my abilities charging
for my readings now. But friends and family, it'll always be like, if you just want me to pull a card, it takes me two seconds. It's no problem. And it charges me up. Doing tarot, talking about, you know, doing the rituals I do, things like that, I get hyped from it. Like after doing hours of readings, I need to take some melatonin because rather than being drained, I'm like pumped. So I don't have, and people are fairly respectful too. They know though when it, you know, when,
That's when people usually come for tarot readings, when you're desperate. It's like, talk to us about the rituals. Talk to us about the moon rituals. Obviously, we're going to talk about your new book concerning and addressing rituals. So walk us through what is that? What do people do? What would I do if I came with you for a moon ritual? Full moons and new moons are different.
We're just harnessing the lunar power. A full moon is all about when the moon reaches capacity, reaches peak power, and then releases.
And so we harness that energy to let go of what is no longer serving us, whether it's a person, a situation, a limiting belief. And you can do it by yourself, you know, standing over your toilet with like a little piece of paper, lighting it on fire, or you can be on Instagram live with me, or you can be in a coven naked in the woods with a bunch of witches. You know, it's, it's whatever floats your boat.
There's something so empowering and cathartic about saying, I now choose to release shame around whatever or anger towards this person. And you light it on fire. And as it starts to burn, you say, and so it is. And so it is. I now choose to release la la la. And so it is. Right? Goosies, right, Caitlin? And there's something about putting ceremony, putting ritual to endings. Right?
So that's the full moon. And then the new moon is about new cycles, new beginnings, fresh starts. So that's when we manifest. That's when we write stuff down. And the manifesting ritual I do was actually informed by my witch mentor because she gave me this spell work, homework, years ago that I've been telling people to do for decades. And it works too. And it's not wishful thinking. It's not the ding-dongs in front of their vision board like, oh, when am I getting married? Like, that's goofy. It's...
taking, you know, having a clear focused intention, taking some inspired action towards that intention and then letting life respond. See how, see how things play out. I think it is important to stop, realize what it is on your shoulders that is bothering you. Because a lot of times you'll ask people, you know, what's bothering you? I don't know. It's just like a general malaise. It just, I'm so frustrated at work. And, and it's hard for people sometimes to articulate
exactly what's bugging them. Like they've had a friend for 40 years and they're not too sure what, you know, Carol is bugging them about, but there's something definitely when I'm around Carol, you know, but to articulate it, to write things down, which I think is part of the journaling family. Am I wrong there, Lori, as far as taking your thoughts, putting them on paper, being able to read that when you go to bed at night and say, oh, wow, I wasn't
really thinking I was going to write that kind of stuff down. So, yeah, it's so important to take time, isn't it? To address what's bugging you and to actually physically
Throw it off a cliff or burn it and like you said, put it in the toilet, set it in an ashtray. Yep. I love that whole idea because something does click in with your brain. Well, and humankind craves ritual. That's why everyone was out banging pots and pans during the pandemic on their balconies. You know, whether it's blowing out a birthday candle or dancing naked under the full moon or doing a gratitude journal, doing skin care, grieving, we need rituals. And
And rituals are just habits that are infused with loving intention. They become sacred because of the significance that we imbue them with.
And so, you know, to go to the book that I wrote, it is rituals that can meet you where you're at in whatever moment you're in. And it's something that you can do any time. You can do it with friends. You can do it alone. But we need rituals. We're already doing rituals. It's just ritual sounds kind of sexy and witchy, but we're already doing it. When does it come out, Lori? Comes out May 28th. Burn your shit. I love this. Burn your shit. The life changing magic of rituals. How long have you been working on this book?
This book I wrote really fast. I actually wrote another book on tarot that's coming out next year. And that is the book that got me the agent and got me the meeting with the publishers. And then HarperCollins,
I actually got a two book deal. They said, we love this tarot book, but like we saw Burn Your Shit on Instagram the other night, like two days before my meeting. And they said, tell us about rituals. And I said, well, funny enough, that's my second book that I'm just percolating. So they said, great, let's do that. We want the ritual book out first. So I wrote the ritual book in, I'm going to say it was about like three,
Seven months. You had your path. You knew what you needed to do, right? And some of those things do go really, really quickly. I know with songwriting, I don't fool around. It's like you're in and out of that thing in an hour, especially when you have all that information in your head. Caitlin, I don't want to put you on the spot, but do you and Lori want to talk a little bit about your reading? Because I'm so curious about it. You've been through a lot in the last couple of years. Our listeners are no stranger to that. The grief process, losing your son, you know,
you know, all the things that were, that go along with, with all of that. It's, it's overwhelming. Um, can you talk about that a little bit that what the reading was or, and if you don't want to. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I do want to, I'm a, I'm a chronic sharer. Um,
Well, I guess the thing that I noticed too when we did the reading is that Laurie stipulated this is sort of a window that's happening kind of right now. So when you do a reading, what would you say the timeframe is that the cards typically cover? I always say it's from now to six to nine months out.
Okay. Yeah. So that was sort of the period we were looking at. Past stuff obviously is going to like influence things, but so we were really dealing with that currently, the change in my job. So because I had recently been laid off from CHUM, we were talking a lot about that. And that's really what I had questions about. And so Lori, do you want to break down how the reading works? Like, cause there was three parts or maybe even more, I forget. Yeah. So a full reading is one hour.
The first half is spent doing what's called the spread. That's the pattern I lay the cards out in. And it's in a circle. It looks like a clock. And we read the cards in pairs across from one another. So like 12 o'clock was six o'clock. And as you go around the circle, it tells the story of you and it addresses every area of life. And you'll see certain themes or kind of almost motifs emerge through that. The last half of the reading, the last half hour is split.
between pulling more cards from the top and bottom of the deck. And then we also have time for questions at the end. You can ask as many questions as you want. I leave questions to the end because usually what you want a reading about is addressed in the reading.
right? But we always have time for questions. One of the things, because obviously when you like leave a long time career, there's a certain amount of paperwork associated with it. There's a certain amount of admin work that is kind of ongoing. And then when you're looking for new work, it's the same thing. So there was a card that got
pulled early on in the clock. And it was a man who was like underneath all of these papers with like stuff around him. And it was just so specific because I think that that's some of the, some skeptics will say that a lot of this stuff, oh, you can apply that to any part of your life. I was like, this is very specifically what is actually happening with me right now. And that would not normally be happening for me in this way. So that was...
pretty early on. The messages also were really clear. Like I had a lot of questions about, you know, do I want to stay kind of, so to speak in the spotlight in media? Do I want to stay kind of front and center? Should I go back to some of my previous roots, which was working in like, you know, documentary and do I want to go back to doing that? It's just, I have a lot of questions about my career path. And when I asked that at the end, this was, I think the only one of the only questions I asked, Lori pulled the sun out.
And she was like, this is the literal spotlight of the universe. So that's pretty damn clear. I love that. Yeah, it was really positive. And I felt positive going in. I mean, even when we started. The other thing that was cool is at the start of the reading, Lori does this thing where she like looks at you for a set period of time. And so you like look at each other and you're like, ooh. And it feels like you're...
It's like a reset. It's like if you're going shopping for perfume and they say in between smelling perfumes, you're going to smell the coffee beans. It feels like that. So it was like this energetic reset for the reading and that I really liked. And even when that was happening, I was like, oh, this feels positive. And everything I got was really positive, pushing me in a new direction, but also leaving everyone open, especially for me because I can be very like...
I want stuff now. I want things done now. I feel behind. I feel behind in my life. Like, I feel like I should have done more. And so it was validating. I know. I know. I'm not like, it doesn't, Hey, it's not logical, but it is how I feel. So yeah.
Yeah. So I felt like, you know, and I've been thrown off a little bit and I've been dealing with so much stuff in my personal life that my career aspirations have had to take a back seat for the last little while. So it was reassuring that like, you've got this, you're going to put in the work, you do have some work to do, but when you put in the work, the fruits of your labor will be seen and you abundance is in store for you. But like, you know, there's some stuff to do to get there. And I like that reassurance of like, you can achieve these goals if you do the following things specific to me.
You always get homework in a reading with me. And it's never like dig a ditch. It's going to be watch this Brene Brown documentary or Brene Brown talk or go burn your shit under the full moon or murder your devil, which is that inner critic. You know, there's always little...
There's always something to take away that is an action you can take to help you move forward and step into your potential. Well, and the part that resonates too for me, because I've had so much therapy, is that I was, I would say again, pre-pandemic, more of a skeptic about lots of these things that are spiritual and biologically.
But then I also started doing therapy work and I started seeing a correlation between a lot of CBT, which is a widely accepted form of therapy and the stuff that was happening with, you know, tarot and astrology. Just tell people what CBT is, Caitlin. CBT is cognitive behavioral therapy. Okay. So really around anything to do with, you know, writing something down that no longer serves you when you're doing a burn your shit ritual and then saying, you know,
let it all go. That is the type of work that you also do in actual therapy. Like people with PhDs tell you to do this. It's just about being intentional with your way of thinking and your approach to life and setting action for those things. You know, that's something that someone with a PhD is also going to tell you. People need that. People need a visual. They need those aids, I think, to get them through. I love tarot cards. I've had, it's funny when Sarah came with
three of her really great girlfriends to my place last summer. We had such a fun night. Of course, I don't drink, but I'm very happy to ply other people with like tins of vodka and soda. And I'm like, does anybody else, are people still drinking gin and Coke? Like people are like, no, they're not. So, but one of Sarah's girlfriends, and I'm going to let you speak to this, Sarah, brought tarot cards. And she, once again, she's a person that's practicing it. She's really passionate and interested with it.
and we sat around with a fire crackling. The mood was so perfect. The sun was down. We'd all had such a fun day. And then Sarah's girlfriend started doing tarot cards and she had a book to refer to the cards. But there was some...
really interesting stuff that came out and it was very binding for us. Like we got to know each other. Talk about that a little bit, Sarah. I didn't have doing tarot cards with Jan Arden on my like bingo card for last year, but it somehow happened. And my friend is much more into it than I am, but I will say that like since then I got
someone gave me a gift for the holidays of like a moon deck. And so I've been like trying to figure it out myself a little bit. That's the thing. Anyone can pick it up, right? There were some very specific sort of directions. Like, you know, one of our friends was struggling with something in her relationship. And one of our friends was struggling with like new business things. And it just sort of provides like
a sense of guidance, but it's still within you to make the decisions on whatever path I think is what's sort of important. But it got us talking, didn't it, Sarah? Like we really started asking each other questions, Laurie. And I thought that was such a fantastic, I don't know, to get people talking. And we weren't on our phones. I don't even think we were listening to music. We were just asking each other questions. It was so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Tarot cuts through the bullshit. Like tarot doesn't do anything.
Small talk, you know, tarot gets into it. It's like, okay, let's look at what's possible, what's holding you back, where you're at, where you could be. You should probably pull a card for us. I mean, it would be weird if I didn't, right? I really think it's so fantastic. And just like on a personal note, I want you to know, I'm glad you're in the world and I'm glad you chose to do something that was outside of, it's not entertainment. It's not a circus trick.
It's not teaching a parent to ride a bike. And I want people to understand that and giving tens of thousands of people hope and that morning thing where they can look at, you know, what you're saying to them and they can take it in their own way and carry that little piece of light with them during the day. And God knows we need that more than ever. So
I really appreciate you doing that. It doesn't matter what people's perception is. If you want to believe it, great. If you don't, don't. And before you do a card for us, I do want to say that there was a funny moment that Lori shared with me because she's going through some transitions and stuff in her own life. And you came across a little something of Jan, like Jan adjacent. Oh God, the book? Yes. Before I get into this thing, I just want to say thank you. I received that, what you said. That is really important. And also-
Oh, I got goosies with you, with with your work and and Sarah and Caitlin, the work you're doing, like we need happy warriors out there. You know, we can't all be strident and angry and we need to be able to like replenish people and inspire them. So we agree. I think.
Yes. Thank you. I just wanted to say that because that's what I think that you do as well. Thank you. So I'm separating from my husband of 25 years. Okay. And it's not easy, but it's necessary. And it's my own like tower to pull a tarot card about it. And I'm moving. And I...
was packing stuff up and I had like five books because I just started taking books out of the library because my books were so old. Like I'm 53, like I had a lot of old books. They're starting to get like smelly and gross. And so I got rid of them all years ago and I kept like a handful of books. I'm talking five books and one of them was yours.
And I just moved on March 15th. So I was like listening to your podcast and a couple of other podcasts. And I reached out to Caitlin to tell her like, it was just really nice when it was two in the morning and I was trying to build a fucking Ikea bed with an Allen key crying to be able to be able to hear your voices was just like soothing for my soul, you know? Isn't that funny? And then I'm unpacking, I'm like, oh, hi, Jen Arden's book. Like this is
And it's funny because one of the other books was an author, Marissa Stapley. She wrote Lucky, which is like a Reese's Book pick. And she's this Toronto author who's wonderful. And I met her and she's become a friend. And I was like, and your book is the other book. What? And now you're on the pod. And now I'm on the podcast. I think we're all learning as we open ourselves up that, you know, coincidence and synchronicity are...
you know, are bedfellows for sure. There's just things you think about a friend calling, you know, oh, I should call so-and-so Carol. I should call Carol. And all of a sudden ring ring. And you're like, it's so weird. Just even physics, like science-based physics of what the human brain is capable of and how we communicate with each other. What's the statistic that they often throw out
Humans only use 10% of their brain and some people only use 1% of their brain. We know who those people are. But it really is, it's unbelievable to think about the capacity that we have to
expand and be braver in our lives and face death in different ways and find a hopefulness of that continuum and how we bounce off each other and touch each other. And I hope we get better at that as we go and less frightened. And I think that's what, I mean, rituals, tarot, astrology, like these things, like I was saying earlier, they connect us.
You know, it's one way. And if people have other ways of getting that, great, you know, but it's just, it's one way that's on offer. But it's so funny. You said people have different ways of getting there. And when you think about addiction, and this is my theory alone, folks, when you think about addiction, alcohol,
you know, drugs or anything like that, of what people are trying to touch. I really do think it is the human spirit, that soul reaching out to connect with a part of yourself that you have to find a different way, but that is, they think, the quickest way. You know, I'm going to shoot this and I'm going to leave myself. And my dad said a really eerie thing. My dad was an alcoholic, but when I was a teenager,
He said, alcoholics are practicing how to die. And it stuck with me as a kid. He was drunk when he said it. But anyway, that's just something when I think about the burden placed upon our humanity of how...
You know, we're trying to make it through this zany life and addictions are, to me, that eternal trying to connect, trying to find that peace of ourselves. Why are we here? You know? That's 100%. Yes. I think it's, yeah, you're either trying to connect with something greater or numb something that's too horrific to live with, you know? That's profound. Yeah.
Do you want me to pull a card for you? I sure do. God, stop me. We are going to take a quick break. We are with our very special guest today, Lori Deanne. She's a tarot card reader extraordinaire, and we are having a wonderful conversation. We'll be right back. Don't go away.
Welcome back. We are here with our very special guest, Terrell Laurie. Well, what I would like to do, I mean, it's not like a couple's massage where I can like do a card. I mean, I could pull a card for the group, but I wanted- Okay, well, I thought I was getting a couple's massage, so- A throuples massage. But I'm going to pull a card for each of you independently, if that's okay. And I want to just ask what you need to know right now.
because when we're doing a quickie like this, Tarot's just gonna tell you what you need to know, not necessarily answering the question that you want to know. But Sarah and Jan, there's an offer on the table for you each to get a full reading at your leisure. So let's plan that down the road, you know? - Well, there's an offer to you. I will sing a song on your new bed from Ikea. I gotta hold you to that. - Okay.
We were going to make... Are you in Toronto? I'm just outside. I'm in Burlington, but I'm always in Toronto. Girls, we're going to fucking make that happen. We are going to Lori's house. We're going to have a cup of tea and I'm going to sing a song on your new IKEA bed with clothes on. Okay. Yeah. No, that would tick off like seven bucket list items, so that would be amazing. Yeah. No, no. We're going to make it happen. We need to go to Burlington for coats. The old coat factory? Okay. Yeah.
Okay, so you're going to hear me knock the deck. That's kind of like an energetic palate cleanser between each. I do that to start every reading. So I'm going to start with Jan and then Sarah and then Caitlin because I'm looking at the order of you on my little screen. So, okay, Jan, I'm doing what Caitlin mentioned, the awkward stare, getting your rojo in here. You can look wherever you want. I'm locked in on you. Okay, so I'm just going to say, what does Jan need to know right now?
Oh, interesting. Jan, we got a juicy one. Okay, this card, you got the five of swords and it's this guy on the beach holding the swords and there are these people sort of like leaving him. They're walking away from him. And this is one of my least and most favorite cards in the deck, wrapped into one, because it's telling you.
Stuff that you're banging your head against a wall about, like, I want it, I want it, I want it. This card is saying it's not happening. Or it's not happening the way you think it's going to happen because of the clenching that's going on. It's like when a little kid brings a bird to his mom and is like, Mom, look at the bird. I love the bird. And bird's head pops off. Like, that's kind of happening energetically. Like, I'm going to make this work. It's the last goddamn thing I do. And this card is saying, yeah, you've got to go from this to just...
You know what? If it happens, it happens. I can't force that. And you have to take the hit to the pride and the ego that comes with saying, I couldn't do it. I didn't get it. I failed at it. And that sucks, especially if you're the kind of person, which I know you are, who's used to just being like, just give it to me so it gets done.
because this card's coming along to say, "Mm-mm, not this time, babe." So that's the gross part of the card, right? But the beautiful part of this card, I'm fully sweating now. The beautiful part of the card is if you can go from like, "Ugh," to just, "You know what, que sera, sera." I don't know if it works, it works. Then you'll find you go from clunk, clunk, clunk to whoosh, like a rocket.
And you'll realize all this stuff you're clenching and clinging to is keeping you from seeing something so much better or getting the thing you wanted all along faster, cheaper, easier, less painful, all the things.
I always say, this is like, I use an example of real estate. It's like you're looking for your dream home. You get in a bidding war. Someone else gets your house and you're like, screw it, I'm going to rent. And you go off in a snit. And then a year later, the market softens. Now you can afford something would have been way out of your price range before. And you think, well, thank God I didn't get that piece of crap. Look at this palace I'm in. See how it's the best and worst. This card is not about giving up. This card is about surrendering the need to control the outcome.
I know exactly what this is. Right? Because you don't have control. You just have anxiety. Yeah, I know exactly what this is. And it's so... I'm glad you explained both sides of that kind of catch and release feeling. Like when you've got something, you're trying to hold on to it. But yeah, so, so interesting. And it's part in my professional life, certainly. But it's not so much to deal with me. It's about other people and trying to control their narrative and trying to...
I wish that things were slightly different, but I know that I can't do anything about it.
And I'll tell you girls all about it. I'll fill you in. That's quite frightening and scary, but also exactly what we said, que sera, sera. This is going to be, this is somebody else's story, somebody else's journey. It's not mine, but it affects me, but I'm going to be okay. Yeah. Regardless. It's liberating to be able to surrender. Yeah. Right? Yeah. No, that's so cool. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Sarah, you're up.
Jen is fired up right now. It's true, though. That's really interesting. Of all the things that I thought... I know. That's what I'm saying about Tarot. Tarot's like, girl, we got two minutes. Let's do it. Sarah, you ready? Ready. What does Sarah need to know? Oh, this is nice. This is not...
giving you any sort of like action item necessarily, but it's a really nice reassuring yay you kind of message. You've got nine of wands and he looks like Rocky at the end of the fight. You know, he's sitting there and he's just like, come on, let's go another round. And this card is reminding you when things get tough, you can do tough stuff. You have had to in the past. You will have to in the future. You can do it now. This is a card of tenacity, perseverance, sticking with it, not giving up on you.
You know, and this card, I always tell people, it's like when you see people run a marathon and they get to the finish line and it's like, oh, crap. And they start to like fall apart. The cheering of the crowd is what gets them over that finish line. It's for the Maple Leafs. No, this is not for the Maple Leafs. This is for you. I don't want you to get excited. This card is cheering you on like you can do it. You're so close. Keep going. So you're getting that rah-rah like from yourself to yourself.
Keep going. Be tenacious. You're almost there. I'm feeling that. I'm feeling that for you, Sarah. Thank you. Thanks, Lori. You're welcome. But you know what's funny when you're saying it's the Maple Leafs? I've actually done tarot for corporations, like corporate forecasting, pulling a card for every month of the year. It's really cool. That's so funny to me to imagine like a corporate entity being like, Lori, tell us how Q2 is going to go. And it's wild because I do it. And after they're like, that kind of
it's so weird how it aligns and it tracks with what our plans are. It's so wild. But then I'll also do team building where it's like a corporate happy hour and then it's bonding and stuff. But this is, yeah, even I, when they called me about it, I was like, really? Tell us about Q3 immediately. Okay. Kaylin. Okay. This is where if you're with us on the audio, you need to go check out the cards on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Just cutting the deck. Boom, boom, boom.
Okay, let's see. Does Caitlin need to know right now? Oh, God. Okay, we're getting into it. Are you ready? This is one of the big homework cards. And I think honestly, it's like Sarah's new to me. So the cards were like nice and easy. And the cards with Caitlin are like, oh, we know her. Let's do it. So this card, I always give a little preface because he looks a little scary.
Oh, it's death, isn't it? Death card's one of my favorite cards. It's an amazing card. This card, I always say he's not evil. He's just an asshole because you got the devil.
Oh, for crying out loud. And the devil, this is so good though because it's giving you an opportunity to do some really profound healing and it's also giving the listeners an opportunity to see how a bad card isn't necessarily a bad card, you know? Yeah. So the devil, Tarot 101 is like addiction and seven deadly sins and blah, blah, blah. For me, it's not that. It's going upstream from that, looking at the things that often can then manifest as like addictions and stuff like this. Oh, Jan, it totally talks to what we were talking about with addictions too. Interesting. Interesting.
Tarot's like on point with the whole episode. The devil is nothing biblical, nothing satanic. Okay. The devil is the gremlin on the shoulder, the voice in the head that we all have that's going, you're never going to get it. You're never going to do it because you're not this and you're not that. This is limiting beliefs, negative self-talk, imposter syndrome, self-sabotage, all that garbage. And when this card shows up, it's saying, this guy's being a turd. He needs to go.
So I'm going to give you some homework that a friend of mine who's a life coach on the West Coast developed for me almost 30 years ago. So I've been telling people to do this for literally a quarter century and it sounds kind of goofy, but it works. So at some point in the next day or two, find some time to ground yourself in breath, close your eyes where no one's going to bug you and just visualize your devil.
Give your devil a character sketch. Like, is it a big monster or a little bug? Is it male? Is it female? I always tell people my devil looks like Dobby from the Harry Potter books, like kind of a troll, but not cute. He smells like dirty diapers.
He has a voice like my father and his name is fucker. And that's how you're going to remember your homework because you got to find your little fucker. And you're going to get this beautiful visual in your mind. And then you're just going to go flick, squish, flush, poof, whatever, just done. Kill it. Okay. And in the moment, it's like, oh, that feels nice. That feels good. But he keeps coming back or she. However, now you've got this in your arsenal moving forward.
right? And so you have to be really mindful and aware of when that negative thinking and talking starts. Like, that won't work. I can't do that. And if you can catch yourself and go, wait, is that mirror? Is that that double? And take a second to flick it or squish it or flush it. I use from the Roadrunner cartoons, you know, the dynamite, the TNT, and it's like guts everywhere. It sounds so silly, but you feel a shift and a lightening and you just kind of takes the pressure off and you realize like,
What's worse than it's going to happen? You know, no one's going to die if this doesn't go my way. No one's going to die if that falls apart. No one's going to die if I get laughed out of the room. It puts things in perspective. But more importantly, it takes that voice in our head that we accept as true without questioning, makes it a separate entity, and then just kind of gone.
You know, and even if you, I'm not done. Even if you never do this again after the first time, just by shining the light of awareness, you're going to diminish his power. Okay. Because the good news, bad news about this card, the good news is it's all in your head. And then the bad news is it's all in your head. But having awareness is like half the thing to dealing with it. Okay. Okay. Now you can talk. Yeah.
The, the it's all in your head thing is funny because I've always thought, well, is there a worse place for something to exist? And I was like, well, it's all in your head. I'm like, right. But I live there. So that's a problem. I do think that a lot of that stuff is, it's sort of energizing because like you said, it gives you an action. It gives you something to set forth and actually do. And I also find it to be like kind of a relief because
Because it usually reinforces something in your head when you're sitting down with you and you're asking a question to yourself and you're saying, let's focus on this area. It usually reinforces something you're already like, damn it, I knew that. Yes. I knew this was the thing I needed to do or not need to do or the person I need to either get closer to or distance from all that stuff. It feels energetically appropriate, I want to say. And yeah, so I kind of I know I know what's going on.
That's really fascinating. Those couldn't have been three more different cards and three more different experiences, but hence the complicated, very distinct versions of ourselves. I mean, there's almost 8 billion people wandering the planet, and we're all so different, but we're also the same. That's so interesting. I'm so glad that you were able to come and see us. I feel like we need to have an in-house experience.
touchdown, like, you know, at least once every couple of months. I,
I think when you preface, you know, these, this information with the fact that you're going to have to do the work, there's no magic thing here. There's no wand I'm going to wave over you when you're at the session today. This involves you taking, it's like you can have hope, but you have to do something to make it a functional part of your life. It really comes back to the book almost, right? Burn Your Shit, The Life Changing Magic of Rituals, which is within you. Yes.
I love that. Absolutely. That's where the magic lies. The magic is in you. You just have to access it and trust it. Once again, the book is Burn Your Shit, Life-Changing Magic of Rituals. That's out in May. Go follow Lori on Instagram and get inspired every day and see the card of the day, the affirmation. And we're going to get to Burlington and I'm going to teach the girls some backup parts. Sweet. Thanks so much for spending time with us today. I think the listeners are going to love it. Thank you. Thank you.
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A cola or a cream soda, root beer, yes indeedy. And they've got their limited edition summer flavor, which will take you right back to the second grade. You got to try the ice pop one. Head to janardenpod.com to find out where the closest place to you is where you can go and buy Cove. Go right now. What a really interesting conversation. And you had a full reading.
So that must have, you must have left there feeling like, wow, because you said she hit a lot of things right on the nose. It was wild and it was long. I mean, it was about an hour. We did it virtually. And I think that it just was so accurate and also empowering. She, you know, she gives you homework. You got to do the homework to have the desired positive outcome. And yeah, I don't know. She's just, she's also very insightful, like just calming to talk to. Sometimes I think, you know,
I mean, my BS meter is pretty good with people. And I've had some, I guess, spiritual things happen in the past and thought, well, maybe this person's not really the be all and end all of internal knowledge. She just seems like she kind of like has it figured out. She's been doing it for 35 years.
Anything that you practice? What was I think it was you telling me that if you do anything for 10,000 hours, you can become an expert, like whether it's playing harmonica or whatever the hell. That's what struck me about when I had when I had will, it honestly took me until whatever, how many the month, like maybe it was three months in or something. And I was up on Reddit looking up sleep training and anything to do with big
parenting on all the mom forums and it struck me that I was finally figuring it out at about the 10,000 hour mark with him and I was like oh now I'm starting to finally feel confident as a new mom so I would encourage anyone who has kids or has kids who've had kids recently hit that 10,000 hour mark and like you're gonna be you're gonna be good in reflection like speaking to Lori and getting a new card today what's your like full circle moment since your last reading
I think I still have a lot of work to do to get over my internal critic. And I think that kind of came through today with the devil. Yeah.
Because she talks about like killing your devil to sort of get ahead in life. And it's something I just, I really struggle with. I struggled with it for a long time. I'm a little psychologically avoidant. I know why I'm like that, but it's not helping me at this stage of life anymore. So it's like, how do you put that into action? How do you change your perception of yourself? Because, you know, Jan, your mom always said to you, why not me? That's an attitude that I really have to work on because I'm not a
I self-sabotage by saying like, well, no one wants to hear this from me. Like I have a hard time putting myself out there. I'm like, my fear of embarrassment is high. Wow. Yeah, no, I get that. We all have a little bit of those doubtful things in our minds. I mean, let's face it, the person you're going to talk to the most in your life is you. You can either be your own advocate or you can definitely be somebody who wants to tear yourself down. And I guess it's just
a human trait. God, did Neanderthal people deal with that shit way back in the day? Were they like, you can never pick up that rock. Yeah. I'll never start a fire. You'll never start that fire. You'll never start that fire. Anyway. Uh, yeah, she was, she was super interesting, but, um, what about you though? Me? Yeah. Oh, I thought it was absolutely fascinating, but, but there was really a lot of things like just with work and,
how I approach people. I don't think I'm a controlling person, but I do want to control the outcome of my life. And I like being assertive and all those things. But I know within my work configuration that there's things that I have to go, no, it's not mine. I can't control that. And I will lose sleep thinking about how can I get this to not be happening and
All those kinds of little things. But she's right. You've got to let go. I posted something on Instagram yesterday. This really wonderful woman who was speaking. I think she was German or something. She said that her mom said to her, when you can't fix things, step over them. It's okay. You don't have to fix it. Step over it. Look behind it. You don't have the right wrench for it. You don't have the hammer and you lost the instructions the day you got the thing.
And, but there was something about that visual. It's just like, step over it. You don't have to fix it. You don't have to sit there in the grass with your toolkit and go, okay, there, I've got it working. You don't need to do that.
It speaks to like how visualization really helps people because like that's what she was telling me to do. And that's why those things resonate with us so much is because the visualization helps you physically see it and then identify it and then work on it instead of just avoiding it altogether. Indeed. I'm so excited to read her book. I honestly cannot wait.
Me too. You can find all the stuff in Sarah's show notes. You can probably pre-order it on Amazon. Yeah, you probably can pre-order it. It's yeah, it's called Burn Your Shit, The Life Changing Magic of Rituals. And I think it's out on May 28th. And then I think her other book will come out next year.
And we already know your light matches in the bathroom anyway when you're in there. So you might as well burn a piece of paper with the word asshole on it. Okay. So just do it. How's tour so far? Tour is amazing. We've done one show. By the time you've heard this, we'll have done two, three shows, four shows. I'm in Halifax tonight, Moncton tomorrow, and then St. John's, Newfoundland. And I am learning things about Rick Mercer that I didn't want to know. So there you have it.
And if you haven't listened to our episode, I believe it's called The Coffin in the Hockey Net or The Hockey Net in the Coffin. It was the first time that Rick joined us on the show. This was years and years ago. Go back and listen to it because it was so hilarious. And it's kind of like homework. I just think it's so funny. And it's coming back.
He's coming back. Yeah, he's going to be on the show. Obviously, when you guys were on tour, we found some time while he's in Toronto. You're both in Toronto. And Sarah and I are going to be attending your evening show in Toronto at Roy Thompson Hall. I know. I can't wait. I hope that I can sneak backstage and get some like behind the scenes content. Of course you can. Hey, guys, thank you so much for sending in your voice notes. Yes, we're getting voice notes at Jan Arden pod dot com.
And there's a little button you can push on there at janardenpod.com. So let's listen to a few of those and see what you guys had to say. Hi, Jan. My name is Debbie West from White City, Saskatchewan, and I was lucky enough to attend the premiere screening of Terms and Conditions on Saturday night. It was a terrific movie and your part in it was great. I hope you have more opportunities for film and television as you're such a talent.
I enjoy your podcast each week with Caitlin and Sarah and have seen you in concert at least a dozen times. I'm really looking forward to laughing out loud with you and Rick Mercer when I see you in Regina in May. Keep up the good work, ladies. What a potent episode with Kate Bowler and you all. I loved it.
When Caitlin said things happen versus things happen for a reason, I nail on the head, power to the heart. I used to be a proponent of things happen for a reason. But my partner of 30 years died a couple of years ago during the pandemic from cancer. And I now cringe when I hear that. There will never be an effing reason he died.
Also, one of the biggest lessons was realizing that some people can't show up when you're in a major life crisis, even though you've been supporting them for years. That's been a huge lesson. So now I'm uber aware of feeling energetically drained by people, and now I choose not to be in their company or lives. The poet David White says, anyone who doesn't bring you alive is too small for you. So thank you all, you glorious people.
goddesses, you come to bed with me every Friday night just saying thank you for your intelligences and your humor and your wisdom. I've been a fan of Jan's for over 35 years. So I hope you all have a know your own belovedness week. Until next time. Hi Jan, this is Dorothy Kincaid. I'm Jason Schmidt's mom. I've just listened to this podcast and I want to thank you for that and for your guests and the sharing that they did.
I have firsthand experience now with grief and with medical assistance in dying. I'm still working through a whole lot of issues, but I do want to thank you for
um your contribution to Jason's GoFundMe and your support and I want to say I hope your geothermal system is uh humming along and working really good I know he worked hard to get it into good health for you take care Jan thanks bye-bye hello Jan Sarah and Caitlin this is Dominique from Sudbury just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy your podcast every week it's like having coffee with girlfriends you have the best guests
Jan, you're such a talented artist. I've enjoyed your music over the years. I saw you in concert in North Bay last year. The books that you have written, some of my favorite recipes, and of course your TV show. Really looking forward to seeing you and Rick on Mother's Day in Toronto. It's going to be a great show. Anyway, you guys are doing a wonderful job. Keep up the good work.
Let's just leave it there. Let's leave it on a high note. You've been listening to the Jan Arden podcast and show, Coffins and Hockey Nets. Go back and find it. Caitlin Green, Sarah Burke, you guys are a delight. I'm endlessly proud of you week after week. And everyone just loves hearing from us and hearing from you guys. And I'm proud of you. Whatever your card said, Sarah, we got you back. You know that.
Whatever's going on. I think it had something to do with your taxes. Canadian Revenue Service, leave her alone. Don't claim what I'm paying you. Don't. Okay, we'll see you next time. Jenard Podcast and Show. Subscribe. Give us a rating. Give us six stars. Leave us a voice note. We'll see you next time. Toodaloo. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.