Together Again
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Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. My voice sounds a little bit like I've been partying all night. This is the Jan Arden Podcast. I am here with Adam Karsh as usual. And please allow...

Showing of applause, everyone lift your bodies out of your seats, out of your beds. Caitlin Green is here. Hi. Hello. Caitlin, do you feel me near? I do because I know that you are in Toronto right now.

I know. I know. It's so bizarre. I am in Toronto, Caitlin, and it is really nice to be here. I feel like I've wandered into a whole different planet, but I was here. Well, I was. Yeah, I was here because by the time you guys hear this, I will have gotten off my plane in Springbank, Alberta, and I'll be there already. But I had a photo shoot for a new album that's going to be out early next year. So, yeah.

you, it's amazing how you just kind of jump back into life. I know. I just am so used to seeing you with the backdrop of your trees and the deer and bitty. And now you're in like this very chic, you know, sort of exposed loft setting. And it's hilarious. Like you're talking about shooting the cover of an album and we've all been kind of like living in our bubble for the last year and a half. It just, you snap right back into it.

I know even seeing my friends here, I was able to see Cynthia Loist, my pal that social. So she met me yesterday and we just had a walkabout. We had so much to catch up on that. It was almost, it was just like this frenetic feeling because we were just catching up on news and walking down the street. And, and I was looking at everybody and how cool everyone was dressed and like queen street is the antithesis of Jan's road. Yeah.

It really is. And I know, I kind of know where you're located a bit and it's a pretty cool part of town. It is very, very densely populated. I used to live right down there before I moved kind of to the east end of the city where I live now. And yeah, that's as much of a 180 as you can get.

I mean, and like, I'm looking at you right now and you're, you can tell you have the remnants of hair and makeup. I know that look from having a shoot. It's like you're, you can tell that if you did a little bit of judging, you'd be very, very put together, but there's so much product in your hair that does need,

I just wanted to leave it for you guys because I've been up for like 90 minutes now and I just, I had like a green juice. I'm looking inside of this fridge here and I'm like, oh, I mean, there's nothing produce-y, but there's all these condiments that I was so happy to go and get. I'm thinking I never have to buy ketchup or mustard or anything like that. And I looked at the expiry dates and they were like really March of last year. So it all needs to go.

But yeah, like you were saying, you just jump back into life and no matter what happens to you, and you can attest to this, Caitlin, no matter how, you know, what, what things are put upon us and set upon our shoulders and placed in front of us, the human spirit is indelible. We are built for change and we march on. And I think that has been such a lesson to me to, um,

you know, to watch the people around me that inspire me so much, you, Caitlin, just people that I know that,

just show me the way all the time. Yeah. It's funny. You don't, I mean, you don't appreciate your autopilot until you really need it. And then all of a sudden you look back and you're like, oh my gosh, like how am I doing all these things? And it's something that everyone experienced in COVID where you would just blink and weeks would have gone by and you think somehow I have managed to forge ahead and do some work and see a few people and clean the house and do all of your stuff. So yeah, it is, it's,

pretty amazing. Are you liking being back in the city or is it like jarring or how is this? I think it's good for me. I think I can be very, very reclusive when left to my own devices. But I think, you know, what a lot of people have come to the conclusion of is that being alone is really important and really good.

And a lot of us were for it. Well, I mean, I tend to be that way anyway, but I think a lot of people that are around others all the time and go, go, go, go, go. And when we had these lockdowns over the last year and a half at various points, I think people really realized, gosh, I need to spend more time with myself.

I think a lot of people too, who are in, you know, especially in a creative industry where you're out a lot and you're collaborating. So certainly for you, like working on a TV show, working on your album, being on tour. And, you know, for me, like when I worked in, was working while I'm going back soon, but in radio and seeing people every day,

People kind of put you in this box of being an extrovert, like they assume that you're this natural extrovert. And then I had someone point out that if you recharge alone, you're actually an introverted extrovert, which means you might work in the extroverted field, you might not be uncomfortable being the center of attention. But in order to recharge and reenergize, you need to do that by yourself.

Whereas some people recharge off of others. I feel like I'm a little bit like you where I need some downtime. Like I need to really be by myself to do that. Yeah. What's that country song?

I can't miss you if you never leave. It's something like this. I really want to miss you, but you never go anywhere. That's a great song. I'll have to find it. Maybe Adam can find it and play you a clip. I can't miss you and you won't go away. Keep telling you day after day. But you won't listen. You always stay in state.

We learn a lot about our resilience and we tap into this place inside of us that really does require solitude. And I think a lot of people are afraid of that, Caitlin, what you think? Yeah, I think so. I think being alone at first is uncomfortable, but when you get comfortable with it and then when you go past the, okay, I'm comfortable and you start to enjoy it,

It's really hard to go back to being around people all the time as sort of your immediate MO. My default setting, I think, for a long time was to be busy, busy, busy all the time, always surrounding myself with people. And if I had an evening to myself or a weekend to myself, I would fill it.

with stuff to do and people to see and dinners to have. And I think after COVID, I'm a lot more comfortable just saying, nah, like if my husband's going away for the weekend, I'm not going to completely fill my dance card. I'm not going to insist on seeing someone all the time. I'm probably actually going to set aside an entire night

to do nothing other than order in and watch some terrible reality television or like a documentary. Like it's really one or the other. I'm just going to sit and either watch stuff that melts my brain or maybe teaches me something.

Yeah, well, I think we've all become professional television watchers this last year. Oh my gosh. You know, and we've scoured the streaming services to find things. I mean, there was some truth to running out of things to watch. I think being in this condo, which I'm very grateful for, and I only have

70 years of payments left. I, because I wanted to quickly just explain to people, I'm not some mogul that's like, oh, I've got a place in San Tropez and one in Toronto. And I, this was fantastic.

merely because I couldn't, I really couldn't handle after 25 years, hotel rooms. One more time. I had my dog. I was constantly even just desperate to make a cup of tea and room service is so expensive. And I just thought, well, I might as well pull the trigger now because if I was in Toronto for a couple of weeks with my assistant and

you know, we were looking at eight, nine, $10,000 hotel bills because I don't know if people know this, but a hotel room here is $379 for something decent. Oh, absolutely. Right. Adam. Like it's not, it's not inexpensive. It is. You're not getting a hotel room in Toronto for 120 bucks a night. That's anything, you know, worthwhile. So yeah, three or 400 for sure. So in the condo, like we kind of did the math and it's like,

I can have Chris stay here with me because it's a two bedroom. He's got a dog and it's about 400 between us. If you do the math with the mortgage and stuff like that. So anyway, I don't know why I wanted to do that disclaimer, but I really am. I've paid a mortgage here this whole time in empty, empty condo because the building that I bought in, you can't rent it out. This

This is not an Airbnb possibility. People are like, well, why don't you rent it and get people in there that need a place? Anyway, getting back to my point, I really learned being in the condo what lockdown looked like for so many people. And I think I really understood the space that I had where I live now.

you know, looking at the deers and stuff like that. Although there's a lovely view out this, there's a, there's a deck here. There's some fresh air. You could certainly do a little workout on the deck and stuff, but if you had two kids and yeah,

And, you know, talking about going through everything on television, I can see why that was such something that people really leaned on. Yeah. I mean, I'm in a condo and it's, you know, just my husband and I here and it's a it's a decent size. But you definitely feel after a certain number of days, even in the dead of winter, like I don't care what the weather is like. I have to go outside for a walk.

And so at the real pressure points here in Toronto when numbers were really, really bad and you started to feel like if you went anywhere beyond your front door, you were doing something wrong, that claustrophobia really kicks in. And I can see why. I know a lot of people who they were renting, so it was easier for them to get up and move. And they saw housing prices increase and they just said,

I'm picking up, I'm moving out of the city. I'm moving to a smaller town. A lot of creative types just said, I'm taking off and going to Halifax or Barry or Collingwood. And I get it because you can only look at these walls for so long. I had to escape into the world of below deck and real housewives just to, just to make it through. Below deck. I, you got me watching that a little bit too. Like if it, if I see it coming on, I, I, I click onto it and I'm like,

Caitlin Green would be so proud that I'm watching these guys. And I did have tons of laughs. It's really good. Ladies and gentlemen, you're not going to believe who just popped into our Zoom meeting because we're doing this by Zoom. Are we allowed to say that, Adam? Yeah, yeah, it's fine. We're doing it on Zoom this week.

Zoe Palmer. Hi, everybody. Hi, Zoe. Thank you for joining us. I know that you've got a child that you're trying to educate and drive to places and get them to school and things like that. Well, yeah. I mean, you know, if she's educated, it's a bonus. It's a bonus. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome. Caitlin Green is with us. Adam Karsh, if you can see him there on your screen.

We are celebrating Jan's season three premiere week. And this is we're just we're featuring prominently cast members who

As we roll up to the premiere, September the 27th. Yes. At 8 p.m. on CTV. And you feature prominently, yes, in that lineup. Zoe, as everyone must know, all over the world, plays my very, very, what would you say? How would you explain Max? Zoe, I'm not going to explain you. I think she's frustrated.

I think you're very frustrated sister, but lovingly frustrated, lovingly frustrated. Let's get t-shirts made. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of I'm with stupid, I'm with lovingly frustrated. Yeah.

Well, it's hard to believe that we shot season three during, you know, COVID times. Caitlin and Adam and I were just talking about, you know, every, all the stuff everybody was like trying to do this last year, a little bit encumbered, but we managed to get season three finished. It feels good. Yeah, we did. There might be the odd shot where we forgot to take off a mask, but whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, listen, we're going to come back in the next segment and talk to Zoe Palmer. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast.

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Do it, boy!

Welcome back to the Jan Arden Podcast. We had Zoe Palmer join us for a very, very short moment, but that's not all you're going to hear from her. We have more. We have a whole other segment. Zoe Palmer plays Max, my lovingly frustrated sister on The Jan Show. Season three starts September 27th at 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on CTV. We hope you'll join us. Zoe, I'm just going to welcome you again because we have no idea what we recorded in the last segment. It could just be dead air. We don't know.

Sure. Well, thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. Okay. First of all, I want to say because of the internet, we all saw you take this beautiful trip to Ireland to visit your family. Can you just tell us a little bit about that? Cause we're quite jealous.

Well, yeah, my whole family lives there for the most part. Some of them are in England, but I don't have much family here really, except for my sister and my dad when he's not traveling. He has another place in Spain, which he spends half of the year. So, yeah.

So it's just my sister and I. So we went to Ireland to go see my family. And my mom was a family of seven sisters and a brother. And then they all had kids. And then we have 7,000 cousins over there. So we went and we did, you know, we climbed mountains and we kayaked in caves and we rode horses on the beach. And it was like amazing. The cave kayaking freaked me out.

So that beach, that horseback ride, the horse that you were on with that black and white face, if you get a chance to go to zoe.com,

No, what's your, what is it? What's your, where am I going? Sorry. I want people to go to Instagram. I know I made. Oh, I think if you just type in Zoe Palmer, I'll come up, but I have, I have Zoe Palmer zeeps because people have to, you know, I got, I got my name taken before I got my own name.

So I had to add a zeeps, which is fine because a lot of people say call me zeeps. Go and see that because it was really a magical trip. It was really cool. Yeah. Really cool. Anyway, we did manage to film season three during a pandemic. Yes. And you, as always, were phenomenal. Thank you.

I want to share this. I don't want to take this really dark note, but I want to talk just for quickly about professionalism and about the old entertainment adage that the show must go on. We started filming the very first day of filming. Zoe experienced something that none of us can even fathom, really. And she lost her mom. Her mom passed away from cancer. It was quite a quick illness, actually. She didn't last very long. You were able to

here in Ireland you came back hoping to go back because we had planned our schedule very you know we tried to get you in and out of filming as quickly as possible but on the very first day of filming your mom passed away and you were faced with performing and I don't even know how you did it but that was how we started yeah yeah that's right that is how we started um

Yeah, life happens when it happens, doesn't it? You know, and it was, yeah, I mean, it's probably one of the most surreal filming experiences I've ever had, because, you know, especially doing a comedy, and I still don't know whether it was better, because normally I've done so much drama in my career, and I don't know what would have been better, but, you know, you have to like go on.

I don't know. I mean, I think comedy is born like really good comedy is born out of reality, right? It's born out of truth. And so, yeah,

I don't know. I, yeah, you just got to do it. So I would go to set and I mean, the truth of the matter is I would shoot the show Monday to Friday and then spend the weekend like in a coma on my couch and my pajamas. Like I was just, I would go do the shoot and then go back to my apartment and kind of,

like fall apart for the weekend and then come back to set Monday and kind of go again. But I, you know, I said it the day that I stood on set and I said, I told everybody what had happened. There really was no other place I would have rather been.

than shooting the show because had I been, I mean, because I couldn't be in Ireland because we were filming, then the only other place that made any sense to me was to be with you guys and, and shoot the show and be surrounded by a ton of support and laughter and love and connection and,

So, in a way, you know, if it had to happen like that, then there was absolutely a silver lining to some degree, yeah. Well, we've spoken, you know, a couple of times since the show finished shooting, which was kind of the first week of April, I guess we were all wrapped up, but...

You were so funny. I said to Zoe, I'm seeing a lot of the shots now because we were doing editing. And you were so funny, Zoe. Like there was just, it's such a funny, quirky, nutty season. And you said to me, I have no idea what I did. I don't. And I think you were being very earnest. Yeah.

I truly don't recall a lot of it. It's a bit of a blur, but I mean, I remember, but I, I was sort of there, not there in so many ways. Like I was, you know, I was so kind of in the moment when we were filming that I wasn't able to retain it in a really specific way or 3d way. I kind of have this blurry memory of what we did. So I can't wait to see it. I hear it's great. How do you feel about, you know, just,

Season three. I mean, it's exciting being able to come back and do these do these episodes with a group of people that we all know each other so well now. And you really do feel like it's a family. I think that's right. People are in for so many great surprises this season. Do you have any favorite moments?

I think there's so much this season. I mean, it really kind of, it's a really full eight episodes. You know, we have two new characters and they bring a ton of new dynamics to the show and sort of bring new stuff from all of us, right? And I think people are going to be really into it. It's like season one and two on fire a bit.

It does feel that way. Every season has its own personality. You could speak to that much easier than any of us can because of your work on episodic, you know, the Lost Girls, for example. You did five seasons, Dark Matter, three seasons. So you have a real sense of

how that feels, but it's to me, it's like, Hey, the band's getting back together. That's what it feels like to me. Yeah. Yeah. It's like war buddies almost you like when you're on a show with people, it's, it's like, you're just immersed in that world and everything else to kind of disappears while you're filming. Right. And you'd really do become, you go through highs and lows with each other wins and losses. And, you know, it's a, such an interesting business that way, because then you, you leave and you're like,

Talk to you never, bye. You know, because everyone flies back to their world. And, but I love to be on series for that reason. I love the community of it a lot.

What have you been doing with yourself? I mean, I know that you had a bit of a move this year and just lots going on. I mean, you're endlessly busy. How is it work-wise? How is it looking out there in the city of Toronto for auditioning and things? I mean, it's great. It's great. I really needed to take some time, downtime, which is kind of what I did. I had traveled from mid-December to

I was gone for almost four months in total, like by the time. And so, well, three months, I guess. But yeah, so I really just needed to be home and kind of be here, which is what I sort of did. I put work a little bit away until I was able to kind of just

Get grounded. And, you know, like, I just didn't feel like traveling again was, it wasn't until I went to Ireland, you know, where I wanted, I kind of needed to go back there first. Well, you've turned into quite the gardener. I have. You should see my dolly. Yeah.

Yeah, they're they're really doing what Dahlia's do best. I'm just so thrilled to be finally kind of able to say the season is starting on the 27th. We're all slated to go the 20th, of course, Zoe. And they announced an election. I'm like, OK. I know, honestly, not going to be good. Like what could be going on that's so important that they need to look at that right now?

Yeah, I was just thinking, I think we'll want to know who the next prime minister of this country is going to be, which will be me. Sure. It's about time. You've written a book, you've written songs, you've done a TV show. I mean, it's kind of the obvious next step. I know how to say sit down in French. Oh, God, well, say no more. Yes.

Isn't it SAVU? No. What did I say? Yes, that's the one. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't speak any French. I can say oeuf and jambon. Yeah. You are absolutely a star.

And you make the show so special. Thank you. Congratulations on season three. Let's hope for season four and September the 27th, 8 p.m. CTV. Zoe Palmer will be dazzling you. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the Jan Arden podcast. What an exciting day. What an exciting day. Caitlin Green is back.

Adam Karsh is here from his same room that he's always been in since the law. Yeah. Nothing's changed. And we have all just reunited and you don't even need to find this song, Adam, because I can sing for it and it feels so good. I think that's all I can sing with a copyright infringement problems. I think that's all I can give you people. Caitlin, I saw on your social media that you had a trip. Um,

And I don't know if this rings any bells for any of you guys for stuff that you've done this summer, but I was crushed by travel guilt. Yeah, I felt it a little bit at first. And because I know, Jen, you're the same, because my trips were all in within Canada. I think some of that was offset. I have friends who've traveled further and they felt it even more acutely. But I still think, you know, I got on a flight for the first time since October.

you know, COVID started to go see family in the East coast. And it was bizarre. And, you know, there are points at which you're kind of, you know, I had a, my favorite beer in the world, which is the airport beer. And I was doing all those things again. And I, yeah, you're 50%. Yeah.

exhilarated and then 50% worried about is this a safe and be necessary quote-unquote necessary and so there is a bit of that the travel guilt's a new thing like it's a very strange feeling and then when I got to I was in Halifax Nova Scotia and then Prince Edward Island which is sort of where my dad's side of the family is from Prince Edward Island is like you know

our New Zealand here in Canada, because it's an island and they can just simply close the airport and say no one's coming across the bridge. Really easy to control COVID there, much smaller community. So they've had no cases. And so when we got there, we had a backyard barbecue with some of my family. And you talk about their travel guilt. They said they had survivor guilt.

Being that they were watching everything happen and everything happening around the world. And they said, you know, we were in this relatively safe little bubble in PEI. So it is a funny feeling, the various levels of guilt we have around doing things during COVID. Well, I know that you were kind of a strange, not a wrong word. You were, you were, weren't able to see your family because of that bubble, right?

So even if you wanted to go, you and your husband, you guys couldn't have gone because they literally, like you said, nobody's crossing the bridge. You can't fly in. You're not going to paddle in. You just can't do it. And that must have been so nice to see them. Were they a little leery of you coming from the big city? Here they come. Here comes them city folks. Yeah.

Well, I think, you know, they would have been pre-vaccination, right? It wouldn't even have been possible because now the governments out east have done a pretty good job of setting up a program where they try to rule out any, mitigate any risk that you might present. So you apply for a pass in advance, you get what's called a PEI pass, you show your proof of being fully vaccinated with your second dose. And for us, we drove across

Cause we were visiting my husband's family in Halifax first. So we drive across and when you get across, you know, confederation bridge, which is a heck of a drive. If anyone, I cannot recommend going to the East coast of Canada highly enough. And if you're there and you go to PEI buckle up for that bridge crossing, it is such a, it's so cool. Anyways, can you get across the, yeah, Adam, we texted, we texted about this. It's pretty cool.

That's amazing. And during COVID, you get across to the other side and they just pull your car over. And because we were from out of the maritime bubble, they give you the test right away. So you get this, you know, PCR test and it comes back in like two hours. And so they weren't that nervous about seeing us. Like I think for the first time,

they felt pretty good about being able to see us, which is nice because you don't want to go all the way there and have everyone worried about giving you a hug and worried that you were bringing something with you because that really could have been the case. And I wouldn't have felt comfortable going if I think I'm bringing this whole safe community, a new level of risk because I'm from the biggest travel hub in all of Canada. How do you feel about the idea of a, of a vaccine passport? Yeah.

You know, I, it is, I like, again, personally, I am fine with it. And that's because I felt okay, assuming whatever risk was associated with getting the vaccine. I was okay with it. I was fine.

I was looking forward to that. So yeah, for me, I felt okay about it because I understand why it is unusual for us and it's a new experience for us. So I think everyone's trying to like, everyone's thrown on this treadmill at like speed 10 and,

but I know why it's an unusual circumstance and why it's necessary because we have been, we've been locked up for almost two years. So my take was that if this is going to help people safely return to normal and keep things open, I was going to be fine with it. Yeah. Well, I'm still a bit perplexed by how people are so opposed to

having any kind of mandate when it revolves around, you know, being vaccinated or not being vaccinated or going to shows or going to restaurants. I mean, I grew up in an era where there were signs on windows of restaurants everywhere you went, no shoes, no shirt, no service. So on a much bigger scale,

You know, here's people that are saying this is what is required to come into our restaurant. You have to have a T-shirt on. You have to have a pair of flip flops and some pants. And if not, we will not serve you. And that is within our right to do that. So I know this is a much bigger issue, but it's still to me, it just informs how ridiculous this has gotten. Of course, you can't come in here if you're not vaccinated.

And, you know, but people will still deny that science. You know, my entire thread yesterday, because I've been saying get vaccinated on my Twitter feed the last few days, friendly reminder, get vaccinated, is that, you know, I have countless people coming on going, you're the ones spreading it because you guys are asymptomatic. And this is, I mean, there's just no, I don't know where people are getting their information from.

They're getting their information from closed Facebook groups. They're getting their information from, you know, sources that are not doctors and are not PhD holders. And I know well enough in life to know what I don't know.

And that is when I defer to the experts. So I know that I'm going to probably talk about this with my doctor and I'm going to talk about this with other doctors and listen to epidemiologists and ask them, you know, and I like, look at, I'm not going to blame anyone for being wary of government anything, because that can be, you people can have different levels of trust with the government. That's fair enough. But when it comes to doctors who have devoted their entire lives to saving lives,

Yeah, I'm probably going to listen to them. So when they're all saying that, and when, think about it this way, a lot of the people who, you know, when they get sick, they're going to go in and receive treatment at these hospitals if they become really sick. So it's like, why do you trust all these doctors to help you sometimes and not in this situation? And I think it's because it's a brand new thing. I think people are understandably really afraid of it. And when they get afraid of it, they don't want to do it and they can dig their heels in. So I understand being scared of things that are new.

I get that. I have empathy for people who feel that way. And I know people who are really afraid of getting the vaccine and still don't have it. And so I understand that fear. I just have personally decided that I'm listening to the doctors and the scientists that have devoted their entire lives to trying to keep people safe and healthy.

Yeah, I mean, I am not going to lie. I was a little frightened myself. Of course. I stood in my lineup at the TELUS, you know, center where they were immunizing, you know, thousands of people every day. These are all volunteers. It was such an amazing setup what they had. And I just, but I was very, very excited.

aggressive about wanting to get my shot. Like I put myself on all kinds of lists. I didn't wait back for someone to call me going, you know, Ms. Arden, we finally have a spot for you. I was like phoning pharmacies. I was, I was on a list in Red Deer. I was on a list in Edmonton. I actually got, Red Deer is about 90 minutes away from where I live, but I thought I'll drive 90 minutes. No problem. But anyway, they met because I was on so many lists. I managed to get into the telecenter, but I went in there. I was like,

I'm a little nervous. You know, I, you know, I was in the waiting area and sitting on my chair for the 15 minutes where they want you to just chill out, hang out. And there was a volunteer walking by and she kind of nodded at me. We all have our masks on. And she's like, how are you? I said, well, I think I'm good. I'm at the 11 minute mark. She goes, you're fine. She goes, we know. Yeah.

Yeah. And, but I just, she had a smile on her face, but she patted my arm and I felt like crying my head off because I thought I'm on the road to being able to

see people yeah and to feel and I know I'm gonna have to get boosters my mom and dad got flu shots every year you know and you know and shingle shots and all the stuff that people are getting in all that science that works works works works oh he's okay we gotta wrap up we're gonna be right back uh you're listening to the Jan Arden podcast I'm with Caitlin and Adam we'll be right back when the wind is free

Once again, during the break, we were just, I was, you know, rambling on about, we're still going on about vaccinations and vaccination passports and what it means to be an anti-vaxxer and what it, what it, I mean, it's a very divisive thing, isn't it guys?

It's so divisive. It is. And I, I like, I, I get it and I understand why it is. And I know people who aren't vaccinated and say they don't want to be, and these are friends and family members. And so we've had lots of discussions around it. And I try to be as empathetic as I can while also being very worried for their health and wellbeing and the health and wellbeing of the people that they're going to interact with, because statistically speaking, you're just,

in a higher risk category as a result of what's going on in the world right now. So I get it. Like people have been thrust into this situation through no choice of their own. We've all lived through this global pandemic together that we have had nothing to do with. But it is so,

so divisive. And I'm seeing it here in Toronto all the time with, you know, small business owners being attacked because they express pro vaccine beliefs and they have, I don't even want to call them protesters. I just think they're instigators outside of their businesses who are aggressively confronting their clients, threatening to spit in people's faces on camera. And I just think we've gotten to this horrible point where it's been politicized endlessly. And it's this like you versus me mentality. And it's just, it's scary because we're,

I don't know. I knew this was coming. I think everybody knew this was coming. The second that the vaccine started to roll out, you knew there were going to be this very, very loud minority of people who are so afraid of it that they start acting out. But it's scary. Like, I don't, you don't want to offend people or make them feel like they're going to be forced to do something they don't want to do. But there are consequences to everyone's actions. Now, there's so many fear-based things.

that are going on right now. And fear when you don't fully understand something and when you don't have all the facts, it just compounds itself. And I think people start making bad decisions. Listen, if there's medical reasons and reasons why people don't want to get vaccinated, I completely, I have a lot of kindness towards that and a lot of understanding. And I have a couple of friends that just simply can't do it because of

whatever. And it really is legitimate things. Exactly. But they also realize like my one friend and I were talking about, she goes, I know, you know, we're really worried about what we're going to do when we're flying. You know, obviously we want to take the kids on trips and things like that. And she's like, I'm hoping that the world will have,

you know, a couple of options for people like us so that we can do rapid testing or stay in a hotel room in Anaheim for 24 hours before we take the kids to a park.

And she was really sensible about it. She didn't go off in anger like, this is ridiculous. And she was just like, I hope there's options for us. Because much like we were talking about in the break, I think people who smoked, me, I used to smoke, slowly found themselves over probably a decade and a half being pinched out of what they used to be able to do.

So none of us can smoke in restaurants and bars, you know, international flights. People used to torch up. I remember sitting, sitting in this, in the row behind the smoking area. And I'm like, I don't know what difference this makes on a plane, man. I'm dying here. But you know, that went away. And then you used to be able to torch up in the terminal. As soon as they walked off the plane, that cigarette was hanging out of their mouths. They were going to torch up.

Now, then they got relegated to the little glass room and now there really is no smoking in the terminal whatsoever. And they're outside down the concrete sidewalk where there's a little ashtray that they're all huddled around. And, and that's what's happened with smoking.

So I think, I think, you know, being vaccinated and traveling internationally is going to be a must just because insurers are going to have a very difficult time insuring people that have refused to be vaccinated. How do you get travel insurance if you you're not vaccinated?

Yeah, there's going to be a lot of complications that come up. And again, everyone's learning this on the fly. And I think part of the conundrum is that everyone is sort of looking around at leadership and saying, when are you guys going to make this decision based on information from doctors and health experts? Instead of saying, we're leaving it up to experts.

everyone under the sun to figure this out for themselves. And that leaves the biggest complicated gray area on, on earth, because you kind of ultimately are like, this is a public health thing. Like I, I kind of want the experts to be the ones informing this. I want the doctors and epidemiologists to be the ones who are guiding what we're supposed to be doing right now. I don't want it. I don't want it left up to, to,

different types of government. I don't want it left up to different parties and I don't want it left up to people who kind of don't know what they're talking about. Myself included. Like I wouldn't want to be saddled with having to make decisions. Like I literally am just going to ask doctors and do whatever they say, because I don't know. I'm just some, I'm just some random person. Well,

I think a lot of people don't take the time to make informed decisions and that's for everything from voting to, you know, whatever they, they vote for the guy that has the nicest jacket or they don't vote at all. You know, I think if you're hard pressed to actually ask someone, okay, you voted for that guy. Why? But do you know anything about him? I I'm telling you, it would probably be scary statistically to really understand that.

You either like Aaron O'Toole or you hate Trudeau or you, you know, it's based on nothing factual. We're dealing with that in Alberta right now. We have a government. He's going to get the oil through. He's going to do this. He's going to do that. And there's but people didn't have any clue who the man was.

All they knew is they wanted Rachel out and they wanted Jason in because it was going to restore their jobs. But they had no practical, no factual, nothing to substantiate why they ticked that box. And that is the truth of it. It's done out of ire. It's just anger and anger.

It's weird how people make decisions. And now everyone wants him out. They wanted him out four months later. It is really also, I believe, impacted a lot on all fronts. The divisiveness in society about every issue is because it's at least advanced through social media.

Because you have your phone all the time in your hand. And it's just like people yelling all the time in your hand, and in videos about anything under the sun. I mean, everyone just goes from being a political expert to a foreign policy expert to a scientist to an epidemiologist. And like, it's, you know, it can be exhausting. And really, in life, your circle of control is about yay big, if you

see me I'm holding up the world's smallest circle yeah and so there's really not much you can do about a lot of these things I mean you can vote and that's impactful and I hope everybody does in the election that comes up whatever party you're supporting I hope you go and do that um but you're right Jan like getting informed on the platform for each party and what that really means to you and if these things matter to you um that's why I think sometimes sometimes I think local politics can seem so boring that people miss it but the local stuff that you know the

the MP in your area, like, you know, how they choose to approach replacing like water mains, if they want to, you know, get dig in and make more green space, what they feel about, you know, the homeless population in your area, whatever the issues are local to you, that's more likely to impact you. That's, that's a local level. Absolutely. I think federal is they're dealing with

such kind of blanketed issues. And when you're frustrated, guys, absolutely write your local MP. They have phone numbers that you can actually leave a message on their machines in their local offices. How do we inspire and how do we get people who are on the fence about vaccinations? How do we...

support them? Because I really, like you, Caitlin, I'm so sick of the world suddenly being in all caps. How do we support people that are just

thinking differently than you do. Like I, I want to be kind about it. I don't want to yell at anybody. I want to find the understanding. I don't want it to be all contentious. Like if you don't want to get vaccinated, you know, I'm worried for you. Just like you said, like what this, this is, this could have dire consequences. 90% of the people in hospitals right now that are getting new infections are unvaccinated people.

I mostly have felt that like when it has come up and I've had a few people like even message me on social media and talk a little bit about this with me. And I've always just sort of tried to ask why they're hesitant and they can list any number of, you know, reasons. But really, I think they all fall under the same umbrella of being very afraid.

very afraid of something bad happening to them. And I think there's a difference between something bad happening to you that you don't feel you had a conscious role in choosing. You know, it's different if they feel like they, I was, I got hit by a car. I'm the victim of this. I had no, even if you look at the fact that getting in a car is a

ultimately far riskier than getting a vaccine, right? But they feel like they haven't had a role in choosing that. I think there's a psychological element to feeling like I had a say in this. And if I didn't do this, this bad thing wouldn't happen. It's this perception of control that I think people think they have in their own life and they need to feel like they have it to get through the day. And so I feel like if we can have a conversation empathetically about why those fears exist and how statistically a lot of these things are unlikely to happen, you might push some people further, but you may never get through to them at all.

You've been listening to the Jan Arden podcast. Adam is spinning his hands around because we just. It's wrap it up. That's what the sign is. It's the wrap it up sign. Very well said. And we will leave it there. Caitlin green. So great to see you. Let's talk very, very soon. Thanks for listening. Look after yourselves, be kind, be patient. And we'll see you. We'll see you soon. Totally do.

This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.