Dying For Sex, White Lotus with Nikki Boyer
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Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. We've got White Lotus, we've got Hot Topics, and we are dying for sex. That's right. I have a great interview with Nikki Boyer, who came on before. She is the executive producer of the hit show Dying for Sex, starring Michelle Williams. Her character is Jenny Slate's playing it.

amazing. We had such a juicy interview. It's so interesting how the TV was made, the truth behind their real life experience and the podcast that inspired the TV show. So we have that interview, but first I have to talk about White Lotus. So I'm going to talk about White Lotus, but I know some of you are not interested and didn't watch it or are saving it. So you can skip about 12 minutes and then I do a couple of hot topics. And then we've got a really juicy interview with

Nikki Boyer about dying for sex. Okay, now let's get into the White Lotus finale. You know, this is the third season. I've watched the first two. Still, my favorite was probably the first one, which was Hawaii. But I thoroughly enjoyed it. There's so few things that I'm like excited to watch on a weekly basis. So with that being said, I'm going to

So let's get into it. I did have a hard time sleeping, thinking about it constantly. So then it was good. If it kept you thinking, it was good. I know there's a lot of criticism out there, but I thought it was good for a lot of reasons.

For one, my favorite thing in the whole series at the end was the massage therapist and her son, who was so cute, named Zion was his character's name. He comes and I love that scene.

I loved their relationship. I love that he was a business student. I love that he had his mom's back. I love that he encouraged her to be more ruthless in business and go to Tanya's husband and say, a hundred's not enough. And I thought they were going to go for a million and he went for five million and then she got up and then she was in on it. Like, I just loved that they...

had such a special relationship. Being that my son's graduating from business school a little bit and he has a great business mind, I just liked that relationship more than anything. The part that I think is really interesting that a lot of people might not be aware of is there was a storyline cut out of it. And that was of the three women that were in their late 40s, high school childhood friends,

The one woman who gives an incredible monologue at the final dinner with blonde hair, she was the woman who was an attorney and lived in New York and, you know, didn't seem to seem to be not totally fitting in as well with her two best friends, who was the actress and the girl who was religious and, you know, and talked about her pastor. So the dynamic was all really interesting, especially to someone like me.

But in that monologue, at the end, she says, and I'm just really happy to be here. And I'm happy that you have a beautiful face to the actress. And I'm happy that you have a beautiful life.

And I was like, okay, that's kind of a dig. Like why, if you really wanted to be nice to your friends where you kind of had a weird two weeks and there were some issues with them, but you are there. I'm like, I think she's saying this because she has had some weirdness in her life and with them. But at this point in her life, she does not want to lose them as friends, even though they kind of had a weird week and she doesn't know if she really even likes either one of them.

She doesn't, I think she knows if we met, if I met them today, they wouldn't be my people. I wouldn't be friends with them. But we do have a history like sisters and I don't want to, I don't want to not have be friends with them anymore. So I want to stay friends. I want to be invited to the next free trip by the actress. But at the same time, the fact that neither of them thought it was a dig that she said to an actress that obviously is on a hit show that everybody loves. She's like, I'm glad that you have a pretty face or whatever she said.

Why wouldn't she have said, and I'm so glad that you are, you know, on this hit show that brings so many joy to so many people. It's really wonderful. And I'm so glad that you are just so happy in your community and where you live and the life that you like. She could have said it in a, with that, the compliment had more substance. Now, what I found out is she, what I thought was interesting in that model is she goes,

I thought it was going to be – I thought my religion was going to be my work. It wasn't that. I thought it was going to be love. It wasn't that. I thought it was going to be motherhood. It certainly wasn't. That's not fulfilling me either. But it's time. And that was like – it was a really great monologue. And however, I was like, oh, I didn't even know that her character had kids. I didn't – none of them talked about their kids. So I was like, oh, I would have assumed maybe she didn't have kids. And that was like one of her regrets of looking back.

Well, one of her storylines that Mike White decided to cut out is that she had a child, a daughter who was non-binary, possibly trans. And Mike White decided to cut that out of the story after Trump won because he felt that it wasn't – it didn't have enough of a place in the series. And therefore, he didn't feel like he was giving it enough of a spotlight.

That it deserved. So therefore, he just decided to remove it altogether. I think that was a big mistake because I think that's really interesting. And I think it would have added to what she was going through, what she was struggling with, you know, her position in New York, her life, how much, how different her life.

life looks than the Leslie Biz character who's at church in Texas. So that's pretty juicy. Wasn't aware of that till I started to look up stuff last night. Of course, with the Southern family, the Parker Posey family, I thought it was really great. Coco Moco, who has been on my show,

A video came across that she put together that's all the moments that the dad said the exact same lines that Thomas Ravenal from Southern Charm on Bravo has said over the years and put them side by side. And I definitely think that those characters that he was inspired by, Southern Charm, I really do believe that. He said in his interview, Mike White, after the show ended,

that he had seen or read something about a man who was facing financial ruin. And rather than face his family and tell him that their lifestyle was changed, he

annihilated the entire family. So I was just popped up and like nerves a shaking when he was making these poisonous shakes and decided that the one younger son could survive with less money. So therefore, he wasn't going to let him drink it.

Not thinking about how fucked up his life would be if he woke up the next day and his whole family was dead. And so when he has that second thought and knocks the drink out of the other son's hand, I really loved that storyline. And I love that it ended that part because it was like,

You know, ending your life voluntarily and all that is such a horrible thing. And maybe this will be a memorable scene to somebody if they ever are in dire straits.

And I do think it's a common story that happens with men whose whole identity is wrapped up with their money and they're the main breadwinner. We saw it happen with that influencer recently in the Hamptons where her husband had ended his life for the exact same reasons rather than face it or tell her that, hey, we can't have Hamptons House anymore. Hey, you can't shop here or whatever. Get your extensions out. He's in such a place where he goes there. It's like a very –

It's not even like depression. It's like a real reason of why I can't go on because of this. So I thought that was great. And then, of course, with the son, I couldn't believe that the son wouldn't rinse out the blender. But I was so happy that they let him live like that. I didn't. That's who I cared about living with.

I didn't ever – I never really cared that much about the English young girl with her bunny teeth, though I found her very appealing. I didn't really care about her relationship with that – I didn't care about that guy searching for his dad. That whole story, I was like, really? Really?

somebody killed your dad and you're going to find him now at this point in your life. And he was killed when you were not like the whole thing. I don't know. It wasn't explained well enough. I kept waiting for there to be some other stronger connection to him and some, and some of the other characters. And there wasn't, um,

But I was fascinated in the episode where she saw him again and she loved him so much. And she's like, if something bad happens to you, it happens to me. And it was like, I'm like, why are you, this young girl, so attached to like this much older guy? Is it just because he took you two weeks to this, you know, very nice vacation? I mean, he isn't a billionaire. Like, why are you so in love with him? But the fact that

He loses it and kills the dad to only find out he is your father like that Star Wars moment, which I'm not a Star Wars person. So I didn't like it. And, um,

You know, I was just told by my editor that one of the stories online was that the wife was going to turn out that she was trans and she was actually his father. And I would have much preferred that as I think that would be a juicier twist. But anyway, then when his girlfriend ends up getting –

killed as well because he's so out for revenge and that whole storyline of like then the thing you love the most very like Romeo and Juliet kind of a thing but I'm like dude you never cared about it you didn't care when she was bit by the snake you didn't care when she was like robbed at gunpoint or whatever happened at the store you never really cared that much you acted like she was like a mosquito around you the whole time and now you're like no I really do love her and so um

I think that's a good lesson for girls to see, to not throw away your life for a guy. Don't think that you can change him, especially when they're as old as he. And know that you can do better. It's always these – you know how many women are in prison right now because of the man they were with? Either they were helping them out to a drug deal or something or they were –

you know, complacent in some other crimes they were doing or, you know, or put them above their children. Like, don't. Like, no man is worth it, especially when they're running through danger. And then here they're taking the photo. Gunshots are going. The three women are

are running. And then we see them on the boat, like laughing, still having like a great time, you know, going back to the States. Like you, maybe they were a little shaken up, but I think you'd be way more shaken up if you were dodging bullets and witnessed like several people get killed right in front of you. So I didn't think that was very realistic, but I loved the final scene.

with Parker Posey and the three kids and the dad knowing that once they get their phones back, the news is going to come, that he's in trouble and their lives are going to change. And he realizes we are a strong family. And of course, let's get to the incest. So how great was it that just the little brother was a people pleaser? He wasn't necessarily...

in love with his brother or gay or whatever. He just said, I felt like you were left out and I know that how much you like to jerk off. And so I just thought I would lean over and help you. I'm like, okay, I don't even think my sons will wash each other's plate if I ask them to. So thank God for that. But kind of like that there wasn't a little more to it, that there wasn't some weird shit that happened. Oh, that we also never knew why Leslie Bibb's

The blonde, cute girl from Texas went up and said that to Parker Posey. Oh, we spent a weekend together. We were at our friend's baby shower, our mutual friend. And she was so weird. Everybody thought that that would come back at the end of this series, that either she knew her or there was an affair or something.

No, she was just a dismissive bitch. Really? It makes me wonder, just like the storyline that was cut about the non-binary daughter and they were supposed to say they them and then she would get confused by it or correct her friends. That whole story being cut out because Mike White felt it was not necessary. I'm like, was there something else cut out?

But then you decided to keep that scene because you just loved the way Parker Posey was like, no, I don't know you. Piper, please. And I did love the scene when she came back from doing the Buddhist night and was just like, I don't think I can live like this. Like, it is small and –

And I mean, that would be awful that you raise your daughter one religion and then she's going to just go be like a monk after you paid for all this college and everything. And you don't know where she'd end up after a year. And it's weird. So I love that she was like, thank God. So all in all, like I love. Oh, the other thing I was going to say is.

I was a little confused. I guess just the fact that the massage woman had some relationship with Tanya, Jennifer Coolidge in the first season and knew that he now is in Thailand, was her husband at one time. I was like, well, she didn't really have anything on him. And if he's in Thailand and he bought this house and he could Google that he inherited all this money from his wife –

What does she really have on him? She hasn't. What does she know about the murder? Like, that's what I didn't get. Why he felt he had to give her so much money to silence her. And of course, she shouldn't open a business with a guy that she knew for two weeks. And by the way, they didn't massage anybody. So like, what is this special spa? Like, really? Burke Williams supposed to be shaking in their boots over this? Like,

And then she's going to – so I didn't feel like she screwed him over at all. They hung out for one or two weeks in this resort. They boned once. And now, no, she should not share her $5 million and put him on bail.

If she wants to open her own line of spas, she should make her son the CEO or the CFO and like do her own thing her own way. And so I love that she didn't like drag him along just because she had like a little fun vacation sex. So all in all, like really stuck with me. I love the show. And I can't wait for the next season, which I can't wait.

I hope it doesn't. I hope we don't have to wait a year and a half. I hope it's like already being filmed or at least been written. So we talked about Blake Lively did a fun little PR thing helping with the donut shop. And, you know, the girl can't catch a break. So a lot of people were made complaints. The fact that she got behind the counter and was like doing something with donuts and had her hair out like mine, which you cannot do when you're working with food. You got to do the hair net, at least put it back.

And so then this particular bakery was flooded with bad Yelp reviews to the point where Yelp had to like stop and really see how many were inspired in the last couple days over, you know, Blake Lively's flowing hair. Interesting because she is that, you know, had the hair products and whatnot. And what was truly, you know, a real disgruntled person that, you know, had a hard bagel two weeks ago.

So, you know, you got to be careful when you think you're going to have this great thing happen in this PR event for your bakery and then this happens. Also, there was another story by the New York Post that Blake Lively revealed that it was her idea to touch co-star Henry Golding's privates while filming A Simple Favor. So I assume that was from...

The first, Simple Favor, which was, you know, a very sexy show.

Again, this is just their, you know, just the people are building their case of like that. It's unbelievable to think that she was really feeling like she was being sexually harassed by Justin Bell Doni. So that's another article. Now, this one was so interesting. And this comes from Drama TikTok OQ is this girl's name who did this. And so she.

She found an article a long time ago, Blake Lively was on the cover of Marie Claire. And she did this interview and this really stuck out to this creator in which Blake said, "When I was three, I was really tall and my brother was a little nervous about going to kindergarten. So my mom just sent me to kindergarten with him."

And after a few weeks, they thought I had something wrong with me because I just wanted to take naps and I couldn't like do the work because I was only three. And this story is 100% BS. It's 100% made up in my opinion because she grew up in Tarzana, which is where I grew up. And I also put my son in kindergarten for –

for, like, he went to one year of public kindergarten because his birthday was October 29th and the Catholic school wanted him to be the age before September 1st. And I was like, okay, he'll go to kindergarten and then just probably do kindergarten again, which he did. So we put him in the public school in kindergarten, which they would take him as long as he turns five by like, whatever, January 1st. Back then, they probably have already moved it back.

But you have to show birth certificates, all this stuff. You can't just put your kid in because that would be like, oh, I'm just looking for free daycare. Like, no, they would have had to have immunization shots and doctor's records. I mean, there's a lot you do. You don't just throw. So the story is just a weird story that just doesn't make sense. And in people grabbing all these interviews, it is strange and it's funny. It almost sounds like, you know, like a stand-up story or something that

It wasn't true. Like, it just – I'll give her this. Maybe the mom said – maybe the mom told her that. Maybe the mom joked. Maybe it was the mom's story that said, oh, you know, you were so tall, you wanted to go to school with him. And one day I took you there and they're like, well, when is she ready to start? And I was like, oh, my God. Like, we don't know where the story really came. But there was no way that you were enrolled in school for weeks and

And so again, it just adds to how truthful, how comfortable is she retelling stories that are not totally true or completely created. So that's where we are with that. This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by Booking.com, Booking.yeah. Guys, summer's around the corner and I know we're thinking family vacations. Let's take the kids somewhere. Maybe you've got a couple weddings you want to hit somewhere.

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find it alone thanks to iRestore. Some people get a haircut or book a spontaneous trip when life throws them a curveball. But Molly, she went a little further. After a life-changing diagnosis, she dove headfirst into a world of no-strings-attached sex.

Secret rendezvous, forbidden affairs, sexcapades, and unforgettable adventures. It wasn't just about pleasure. It was about feeling alive, embracing desire, and rewriting your own story. And every wild, outrageous, and heartfelt detail unfolds in Dying for Sex, Wondery's award-winning podcast that's now a TV series starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate.

But there's even more to the story. In brand new bonus episodes, host Nikki Boyer sits down with the cast to spill all the spicy details from behind the scenes moments to what it was really like bringing Molly's unforgettable journey to life. Desire, friendship, self-discovery, and the ultimate bucket list of pleasure. This is a story that had everyone talking. Listen to the original Dying for Sex plus new bonus episodes on the Wondery app or wherever

you get your podcasts. Binge the original series before anyone else. Completely ad-free on Wondery Plus. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have returned guest.

who has an incredible Hollywood success story, I think, as you're sitting here. Nikki Boyer, you guys may remember from my old Juicy Scoopers, and you are probably familiar that she is the creator of the show that's now on FX, Dying for Sex. But the story behind it, you'd come on Juicy Scoop to talk about, because it is the story of you and your friend,

And then it became a podcast, which why, that's why you were on Juicy Scoop in 2020 to promote this podcast that was on Wondery. And now, and I remember we talked, I'm like, this could be a TV show. You said it. And you were like, so I want to know. Now that it's here, I want to know like the whole process, because-

I didn't realize. I was like, oh, that was a pretty quick turnaround. I mean, it wasn't. It was four or five years ago. Right. But it's so amazing. So this is on FX. Michelle Williams plays your best friend. Yeah, she plays my best friend. Where you guys came up with this whole thing based on her life. And then Jenny Slate plays you, which I think is really good casting. Agreed. Yes. So...

So let's just go a little bit back. First of all, our history with each other is very much E-oriented. You were always like a panel girl, a red carpet girl. You're best. What if Ross Matthews best friends? He has a lot of best friends, myself included, Drew and I included. But no, you guys really are close and you've done a lot of podcasts and projects together. So what's

We've known each other through that. We've been backstage together quite a bit. Yeah. And at people's weddings together. We had so much fun at Ross's wedding. How fun was that? It was like the funnest. I'm like, can anybody else please get married again and have everyone I know go to it? And go to Puerto Vallarta and be on a vacation together? Okay. And free cocktails?

That was the best time ever. Yeah. I think that was one of the most fun weddings I've had. Oh, I love that. It was really good. I just love that man. He's just been a constant support to me. And it just, I mean, we've been friends for over two decades almost now. Yes. So, yeah. And I married him and he married me. He married me and my husband and I married him in Wellington. Isn't that cute? That's right.

How did the two of you meet? On a red carpet. Oh, really? Yes. Yes, we met on a red carpet. I was actually working it. I was working it and then attending it. Okay. He was working it and I walked up to him. I mean, we have a photo of this night. I look like a toddler in a dress. Like I'm so young. I was like 25. Yeah. And I walked up to him. I think I was a little tipsy. We started laughing. I was like, I think you're great. I didn't.

really know who he was, but I knew he was someone who did something fabulous. And I wrapped my leg around him and said, we're going to be best friends. So this is before Chelsea Lely, but he was doing like Tonight Show, Ross the intern. Oh, my gosh. That's so great. My whole body around him. Not much. I can't believe he's called me back. But we've been friends since that night. I love it. Have you ever had a big fight? Such a good question. No. No.

No. That's great. I mean, we've had disagreements about things, but like he's really hard to fight with. I like to fight. Yeah. No, he's just so good. He's such a good soul. No, we've never had a fight. We're gonna. Yeah. He just inspired it. I'm gonna call him right now. Okay. So let's talk about

let's go back. I know I asked some of these questions five years ago. No, but I love it because you had your, you said, you said to me, I think this could be a TV show. And I was like, like, I couldn't say much, but I knew back then that it was on the road to that. Okay. And I wanted to tell you, but I had, you know, and also I was afraid to jinx it. Right. You were so spot on all the things that you said about this and that you kind of predicted all happened. So really? Oh my God. Now I want to go back and listen. Well,

I just, you know, I have this prediction stuff that happens. Are you, are you clairvoyant? Well, I just had a thing where just the other day I, I,

was like we're talking about housewives and I go I go oh I just got a prediction it's not good I feel like Garcelle's gonna leave and then she just made the announcement and then within 12 like I don't know 20 hours later I woke up to the announcement that she did leave and so I immediately was like oh my god I have to do a video of like where how one of mine come true it's never anything like it's not like I can predict like a war or an earthquake but like

It's just kind of... It's stuff in the business too, but also like I think I am a good manifester, but I also now like... I don't know. Something about being in the business long enough where I'm like, they should do this or I could see this happening or whatever. That's good. So...

Take us a little bit back about your friendship. What was her name, by the way? Molly. Molly. So how long had you guys been friends and what... Tell us about the friendship, how the friendship started. Yeah, we met in an acting class in Los Angeles in our early 20s. And I remember I had like a pixie haircut at the time and was like...

Hi, like social in the room and kind of bouncing around and flirting and trying to make everyone like think I was desirable and cute because I was 25 or 24. And I noticed Molly and she at the time had really long brown hair and crystal blue eyes and was very like striking. Like look, I always called her an alien model because she had these cheekbones and this perfect flawless skin, never really wore makeup. And I just noticed her and she was a little quiet,

And unbeknownst to me, she was completely judging me and was like, I don't like her. Because you were just too perky. You know that thing? Like basically me now? But do you know the expression, the pick me?

Was a pick me with a pixie. That was me. I was I would have punched myself in the face if I was this age now. I'd have been like, sit down, shut up, just calm it down. Right. And there were these guys in the class that were twin brothers and I had known them from working at restaurants previously. So we were like talking and flirting. And Molly was like, oh, of course she knows the twins. Like, yeah. Yeah.

Flash forward a few weeks later, our acting teacher paired Molly and myself up together to work on a scene. And that changed the trajectory of everything because I don't know if we would have spent that time getting to know each other if we weren't working on a scene. So I think I need to send that acting teacher a thank you card because I never really put that together. So then you become good, really good friends. And at that time, Swishus, were you both single? No.

Or had she already... Was she with her husband? No, she had... No, because I was actually with her the day she met her husband at a restaurant. We were together. I was already dating my ex-husband now. And I think... And so Molly was very much... She was kind of the friend where...

You become fast friends and then you can go a few months and not talk. And then the next thing you know is you see each other 55 times. So we had this ebb and flow in our relationship, but she was always a steady. But she wasn't the kind of friend that I would invite to like a happy hour or a party because she didn't drink. And we did best one on one. Like we just really wanted to be together. So I always saw her very separately.

She wasn't kind of like the friend's friend. So our time together was always really intense and intimate and fun, but it was always really one-on-one, like six-hour lunch one-on-one. Yeah. Yeah. So then what happened first? Were you just being friends and she found out she had this severe cancer diagnosis? Or were you already working on something creatively together before?

And then heard it. That's such a good question because I think we always secretly wanted to work on something. We just didn't know what because I was an actor and a host and she was really a writer so that we couldn't find anything to match up on. But when she got diagnosed with cancer the first time, she beat it. Double mastectomy, went through chemo, radiation, the whole buffet, as she calls it, and then was in remission. And then I remember when she called me and said something was going on with her hip. And this was like five, six years later. And I just...

I didn't even think anything of it. I was like, that's probably because you're just on the elliptical too much. And then she called and said, no, actually, the cancer is back. And that's when they diagnosed her as metastatic, which is terminal. And that is the moment that everything shifted in our friendship, really, because we started to work together, but also in her sex life, because she said, I do not want this.

to live my last years in the way that I've been living. So she decided to leave her marriage in her, as she's like the sickest she's ever been, decides to leave her marriage, gets an apartment near me and decides to go on this, I mean, sexual journey of like having as much sex and as much fun, doing as much fun physically with her body that she possibly could. And that was the moment when she was telling me, we were in front of Trader Joe's on Hazeltine and she's like,

Oh, my God, I just had sex this morning. I'm like, it's 11 a.m. Where were you? And she's like, well, we met at the Dunkin' Donuts and we made out in the parking lot. And then we and I'm like, who has sex at 9 a.m. at Dunkin' Donuts? And I'm like, I literally said, Heather, no.

this is a show in my mind. And then I said to Molly, this is a show. And I said, and I think it's called Dying for Sex. Like the title just like came to me and she was like, let's do it. We didn't know what the hell it was going to be. We were like, I don't know what this is. But we decided in that moment we were going to do something together. And then we did. So then how did it work? Like, were you, cause I can't remember. Were you like writing? Did you put down a tape recorder? Like,

Did you think podcast at this time? Because what year was this? This was 2016. So podcast...

You know how podcasts... But didn't you have... Were you working... Didn't... Ross had one before me, but that was not with you, I don't think. I was on... So do you have one at that point? Okay. No. The closest thing I had done to a podcast was dip in and hang out with Ross. But like, I didn't really understand what a podcast was, to be honest, and especially the kind that Wondery does, where it's like a limited series podcast. Right.

So this is so cool because it brings it back to Ross there. Oh, yes, I was doing that show with Ross because the CEO of Wondery came in to say hi to Ross. And I was like, oh, hi, nice to meet you. So flash forward years later. I also want to say.

Sorry to bring it back to me. I love bringing it back to you. First of all, Ross is the one who said I should have a podcast. To you. When he was at Podcast One and then I did Podcast One. But then when I left and went to Wondery, I introduced Wondery to Hernan. Wait, what? Yes, because then Ross was at Wondery for a minute, right? You introduced Hernan to Ross? Yes. So I have you to thank. I guess so.

Let's really bring it back to you. Because Ross was at Wondery for a minute. Yeah. And that's when I met Hernan, who was the CEO at the time. He came in. I met him briefly. And then it was kind of a, you know, it's nice to meet you. And then flash forward when Molly and I were like, do we make a TV show? What do we do? Like, how do we do this? Do we write a one-sheeter? I mean, I've been in the business for a long time. Where you pitch a show, yeah. Yeah, but there's no real formula of how to pitch a show. No.

And she wanted to write it. And so we started a script and we started a one sheet. And then eventually we were like, we should, we should just start getting pitch meetings. And we pitched it. I went to New York. I took like five or six meetings. For it to be a scripted series. For it to be a scripted series. But everyone we met with, they were lovely, but they didn't quite understand the depth of it. And when,

When you're dealing with someone who is terminal and who is very creatively, has a lot of creative integrity like Molly did, she didn't want to cheapen it. She didn't want it to be like sex in the city, you know, which I love sex in the city. But she didn't want it to be...

She wanted it to be unlike anything anybody had ever seen. And I was like, well, that's a tall order, my friend. But she was right because it didn't need to be like a Cosmo article about girls and cocktails and sex because it wasn't about that. It was about sex.

getting really comfortable in your body, healing old wounds, all that, blah, blah, blah. So we decided to sit down and start recording. A friend of mine owned a production company and was like, let's just get some studio time. And we did exactly what you and I are doing. But we spent hours and hours sifting through all of our sexual escapades and going through like, let's pair this guy with this guy and that'll be an episode. And so we recorded a bunch. And then I said, wait, that guy from Wondery, should I send like

Maybe I'll reach out to him. And so by that time, Heather, Molly got really sick and she was in the hospital and we realized she wasn't coming out of the hospital. So I emailed Hernan and he came to the hospital and met Molly on her deathbed on February 14th on Valentine's Day, three weeks before she died. And he's like, we're going to do something. We'll do something with your story. We're going to make this something amazing.

I mean, how great is that? And then also the other thought was really interesting that I remember from our last interview is that she like willed you her life story. Yeah. How does that work? Like she gives you the IP, the internet, the intellectual property, which we just said on another show that that's all the thing. That's the only thing that's selling right now. Like, like fresh creative ideas that aren't based in true life or based on a documentary or something.

for whatever reason, they're not going for those. So this already was something that people were looking to do. Yeah. And it's funny because now I have my own production company and I'm getting people's IP and I'm now, like because of Molly, I'm able to now tell other people's stories. But you're right. There was something really raw and special about it. But I don't think we knew. I think we thought it'd be really fun to record. Let's make a podcast. And I really did think that would

be the end of it. But when Wondery paired me up with Stephanie Jens, who was my producer at that time... Your podcast producer. My podcast producer at Wondery. She sifted through everything with me in a way that was just unreal. Like went through Molly's book, went through old recordings, went through... We did interviews with some of the guys she had slept with. But taking it back to your original question, which I forgot because I'm going to pause. Which was about her willing you... Even though...

You know, I assume she had some living relatives. She had the... Now, was he officially the ex-husband? No, not officially. So she had a husband. So like, that's a very conscious thing that she did. What was that discussion like? It was... It's funny you ask that because I hadn't thought about it in a really long time. But looking back, like we were full on doing business in her hospital bed. We had...

She was like, I need to will you my book, my likeness, all my photos, my phone, everything about me I have to will to you. And I was like, okay, can't we just like... How did she know to do that? She is so fucking smart. She was just a really smart woman. And she also knew that...

legally we needed to have a document to give it to some, I mean, right. Just a random friend, but you know what I mean? Not a family member. So we were taking meetings with, with like, we had a lawyer, my lawyer, we had her family lawyer in the room coming in, drafting things up. We were talking and laughing. It made us feel so normal. Like we were still working together, but she willed me everything. So yeah,

I think she secretly knew deep down that this was going to do something or why would you go to such great lengths? But she wanted to protect it so that I had the free will to do what I wanted with it. I know. Isn't she cool? By the way, there was this...

that came in and she was so sick. And she was, I mean, she was months from dying and didn't leave the hospital for that chunk of time. She was very, very sick, but still had her sense of humor. And there was the lawyer that came in and he had on an interesting hat and she's like half out of it. And she looks up and she goes, oh, hi, matey. And I was like, oh, he had like a sailor kind of a hat. So I still don't remember his name, but I just know every time he came in, we'd say, oh, hi, matey. And he didn't know why.

So we were still laughing when we were like getting this legal stuff all figured out. It's one of my favorite stories about her. And so did she have parents and how did they feel about the fact that she was just being a reckless, you know, sex fiend in her last, like what, year of her life? Yeah, well, I'd say two to three years. Okay. Yeah, she went for it. So-

And it ebbed and flowed with her illness, right? Some days she'd feel great and some days she'd be wiped out. But yeah, for about a couple of years, I think off and on, she was having these little fun sex escapades. But her dad, I mean, no dad wants to think of their daughter in that way, but fully supported it. It was just like, you do you. Enjoy. Right? Yeah. And I think her mom was a little like, oh, okay. Awesome.

All right. Well, but there wasn't a ton of parental judgment. What was her relationship with sex prior to this? Was she very monogamous? Was she religious? Like, why did she feel that she hadn't

you know, done everything she wanted to do in that department of life. Well, she writes in her book. So I always like to bring it back to her own experience of when she was a little girl. And she speaks about this on the podcast and in her book. But something really tragic happened to her when she was seven years old. She was sexually molested by someone in her mom's life. And

I think in that moment, and she says it, that she was kind of split and kind of fractured in that moment. And then sex became really uncomfortable and weird. And she didn't quite heal from that. So then when she was looking for partners, she was really looking for safety. And there was really not like she didn't really screw around like I did in my 20s. Like my 20s were just like dancing around and having sex with whomever I wanted to. And she wasn't doing that. So yeah.

I don't think she ever got that. And then she immediately got into a monogamous relationship and then gets cancer and then loses really the drive for sex. But then when she got diagnosed as metastatic and terminal, something shifted and the fire was lit. And she was like, couldn't wait to have sex.

With people. And how does she, I'm sure we'll see it in the scripted show, but like, how does she tell her husband? Because did they have, did he think they had a decent marriage anyway? Here he had stuck by her side through these illnesses with that. What was that like to tell somebody like, hi, I'm, life is short and I don't want to spend it with you. I want to like, you know,

I want to see 12 other dicks this week. Well, I think it started off as cyber sex, right? Who says cyber sex like a 90-year-old? It starts off as cyber sex, but at the time, that's what we called it. And I think he was really open to her doing that. You mean just like virtual? Yeah, virtual. Okay. Cyber sex.

Well, I'm like, do you mean you meet someone online? Because doesn't everyone meet someone online? Right, right. But not meeting anybody in person. Not physical. Yeah. And then she kind of confessed it to him and said, I've been sort of exchanging these. And he was very supportive because he understood. He was also her caretaker at the time. Yeah. And it's that dynamic I can't even dip into, trying to be sexual while also caring for someone or being cared for. Yeah.

And I just don't think that that was a part of Molly that she had really tapped into and picked a partner that maybe didn't match up with the desire she was having now. So I feel like he was really supportive at first. And then I think when she wanted to take it into real life, that's when the separation happened. So, yeah, it was not comfortable at all. But at first there was a lot of support there of like, yes, you want to get into your body and feel sexual. And maybe this virtual sex is possible.

the answer for you now, but she wanted to take it into the real world. So she moved out. So, okay. So then when you decide you're going to go with Wondery and do the podcast, was the desire to go with Wondery over anybody else? Because he was like, I think we can make this a TV show. So I sent the email to the CEO of Wondery with, now at this point, Molly was about a month away from passing away.

I didn't really know that, but I knew we were getting close. And I thought, I have these 10 episodes of my best friend and I don't want her, ugh, makes me so sad. I don't want her to die without knowing, with thinking this is just in my computer and not in the world. So I was gonna release it on my YouTube page and I was getting ready to put the episodes up and just release it. And I thought, I'm gonna email that guy from Wondery back, Hernan, I'm gonna email him back because I never heard back from him. So I said, hi, following up on this email, never heard back from you.

I'm going to release these in the next four to five days. Let me know if you'd like to speak. So you gave him to him to listen to too. Yeah. I sent him in a, in a random email. Okay. I had sent it like maybe a month prior and then I never heard back. And this is such a good lesson of like always follow up. Cause he never got that first email. He's like, I either didn't get it or it got lost in the shuffle. Do not release them. Come to my office and let's have a chat. So I went in, I met with him and then,

Five, six days later, he went to the hospital and met Molly. And it was all just very, I don't know. I hadn't thought to go to another podcast company. I hadn't really. I just kept thinking, oh, I met that guy through Ross. Yeah. Ross met him through you. So really, thank you. Back to you. Oh, no, please. No, but I am. Those kinds of things are not an accident. Yeah. Those things happen for a reason. And I do believe.

I think if I would have released it on YouTube, it would have been a really great homage to my best friend. But now it's like this powerful story that I could tell, not just from my perspective, but my other producer, Stephanie Jens, helped me really sift through and go, what's going to make this? What is going to make Molly's out there journey?

What's going to make it understand, be understood by other people? How do we tap into the humanity of this? And I don't think I knew what that was at that time until I went through that process. So you guys do the podcast and then how does it come about to we want to make this a show?

So Molly passes, an entire year later, the podcast is released on Valentine's Day or Galentine's Day, they call it. Do you know what Galentine's Day is? Yeah, it's just for girls. You're celebrating the love of girls. I didn't know what it was until then, which I love. Yeah. So we released it. And then before the show had even, I think, gotten to the air with Wondery, like episode one hadn't been released yet.

We were taking meetings with amazing showrunners because Aaron Hart, who works over at Wondery, he's a TV guy over there. We were setting up meetings. So we were meeting with showrunners, meeting with people that were interested in the story. I mean, I had heard rough cuts and they had heard rough cuts, but there was already this weird thing. And I'm going to these meetings, Heather, and I'm all dressed up and I'm thinking that I'm pitching to the showrunners, like, here's my story. But they were actually...

And they were pitching themselves to us to produce the show, which I had never been in that position. Never been in that position. No, no. Never in like only anything but like hopefully they'll give me a validation for the parking when this never goes anywhere. A hundred percent. I was still the pick-me girl. I was still like, hey, everyone. Welcome. Thanks for coming. And the people from my friends from Wondery were all like, what?

Why are you so... We're choosing. Like, we are the... Like, we're the hot, you know, selling... We're the listing on the street and it's a hot market and everyone wants to buy us. Had no idea. And then I started to get clear about how powerful the story was, which I knew, but I don't think I knew knew. And then we took meetings and then eventually we met with Liz Merriweather, who is my showrunner. And then she... And what are some other things that she's done? Because I know the name is familiar to people. Liz did The Dropout.

One drop. Oh my God, that's good. What would you do if you could save your uncle from dying of cancer? I love anything Elizabeth Holmes related.

I, you know, she's in prison with a former Real Housewife, Jen Shaw, and they are pickleball partners. No, I didn't. Of course you know this. What? Yes. Who gets to play pickleball in prison? They all do now. Oh, gosh. It's a big, it's a big deal in prison. I played pickleball down in the desert. I don't play pickleball. I bought a pickleball. Oh my God. I love pickleball. It's not going away and I'm thrilled. Okay. Well, we need to do that. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Okay. Continue. So, so.

So she did Dropout. That's great. But before that, she did New Girl. That was so good.

So she had great, great comedy chops, understood like really telling fun, deep stories that were very funny, great sense of humor and then to drop out. And so when I met with her, when we met with her. And the dropout had like weird, funny moments too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's just so amazing. And then she brought in her partner, Kim Rosenstock. So I had two amazing women. She was only murders in the belly. Like, yeah, I mean, oh, wow.

So, yeah, we started working. It was a very long process, though, because we met in January 2020 and then COVID hit. Then all the strikes. So here we are five years later and the show is coming out.

And then this and what I love is so it's on FX, but then, of course, you can stream it on Hulu as well. It's only on Hulu. So it's only on Hulu. I think there's a lot of FX for Hulu. Got it. Got it. Right. And Disney Plus, which always makes me laugh when I'm like, what's dying for sex on Disney? I honestly have such a hard time, like even figuring out TV.

Like I'm like someone's like, oh, it's on Lifetime. I go, I don't even know how to watch Lifetime. That's when you just take your remote and go look for this show. I need to do all that stuff because it's like, but Hulu, I know how to do that. You can go to Hulu. I know my app has, I do the little house. That's all you got to do. And then I go to the thing and then I can click on that and I can get that. So that's good. And on April 4th, it was so easy. You don't have to, just like one button. My husband's like, what are you going to do if I've got it? I'm like, I'm going to hire a little man that like lives in the house.

That's not a scare to light the fire pit. I'm scared to light a fire pit. I don't know how to work the TVs. I'm just like, whatever. And I was worried about sounding old saying Carver 6. Yeah.

You're like, no, you're in good company. It binges. You can binge it. Okay, great. So April 4th, all eight episodes drop on Hulu or Disney Plus, produced by FX. And it's just, I mean... Okay, the only gate I keep is the one in my yard to keep Raven safe. But now I have to share a game changer, which is Spot and Tango dog food. After trying many foods, which Raven has...

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So now, did you ever have any like short list or who you thought could play you? Because it's really the friendship of you and Molly. Here's the cute part about Molly is whenever we would do that fantasy, like who would play you in a movie? By the way, who would play you in a movie or a TV show? I actually have no idea. I mean, I would have to explore...

Well, I'm hoping that when I sell my TV show, which by the way, I have the perfect show. It's my book. You'll Never Blue Ball in this Town Again, which is about my life from 18 to 30. I'm the opposite of your friend. I was an old virgin. I didn't have sex till I was 27, but I would never admit it. I'd act like I was kind of slutty on stage. I'd write all those slut jokes. I would, you know, doze.

dry hump a lot and I never understood like you know but then I was like so old people or things no people I just like and then I would you know I was like well now I've waited this long like I don't want to just sleep with someone so I'll just have to wait till he's my boyfriend but then in that day and age the 90s like

And back then, guys took you out on dates. So it's like, pick me up, take me. I always had a nice meal that they paid for. And then I'd make out. No, I'm not going to sleep with you. And by the third date, they were like, this chick just doesn't like me. And then I was like, well, I'm waiting for you to say you're my boy. But I never said I was like a virgin. So there's all these stories that I had. So I wrote a book about that. And then when it came out in 2010-

It was weird because I was kind of like,

Well, now there's texting and all this, but the thing that makes it work is that it was the 90s and there was answering machines and leaving a message and you could play the rules and it was a whole different thing. So now I feel that that could be a show now. Absolutely. Because I feel like Gen Z is thirsty for the 90s. They're like, what's it like to have dated without social media and without phones? And like, what is that even like? Yeah.

And so I love this idea, but I don't, I, I don't know who could play me. I'm sure people, people sound off and yeah. Like who you think like would be a, you know, a 25 year old version of me that, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't give only once. Did I have someone do me for like, like be a young me. And it was go,

Ghost stories. Remember ghost stories? Celebrity ghost stories. Who played you? Just some girl, but it was like a very, she didn't look anything like me. I'm tall. She was short. Not to be a bitch, but like, I didn't think she was cute enough.

And I was just kind of like, and I'm watching this weird thing because it's like me like telling a scary story about this ghost story that was pretty much BS, by the way. It made it up? Well, it was like literally, I did have a, it was weird because the night before I was at the London Hotel and in New York doing like a press thing for E or whatever. And I was kind of buzzed, but I had this very vivid, weird dream where like this,

I felt like a man's hairy arm in my bed and it just felt weird. And I woke up like, that's such a weird dream. While I'm in the airport to fly home, my agent or PR guy is like, have you ever had a ghost encounter? Celebrity ghost stories are looking for people to do it. And I was like, I kind of had one last night. Yeah.

And then I'm like, what does it pay? And he's like $6,000 one day. And I'm like, yes, it was terrifying. And so my life is forever changed from this. So then like before I called the producer, I talked to my friend who's like into like ghost hunting, whatever. And she's like, if you're in a hotel, say that the air kept getting cold and hot and cold and hot. And then I was like, also, I kept placing my lip liner. So then I was like, was my like potential like ghost rapist like,

Like, I don't know. But like, I was like, because I told the whole story about the lip lighter kept being like moved. And then I was like, what is this story? Anyway, so we do it. My husband has never laughed harder because he'd never seen me be on TV not being like funny, like not doing like a Chelsea. And so...

I need to find them. Anyway, so going back to the story, that is when they go, I go, I was, you know, I go, oh, every time I travel, I'm very organized, which I'm not organized at all. Why are you such a liar on ghost stories? I was like, very organized. I put my makeup and my lip liners in here because that was a big story that the lip liner kept getting moved. And so then they show this girl like holding a mic like, and I was like, what? That's me? Yeah.

I didn't like it. So you have Jenny Slate play you. And I do think that's a good match. So like how... And she's a great actress and she's funny. And then Michelle Williams, of course. But...

I just think the age and just their vibe, obviously, they don't necessarily look like you guys. But how did the discussion come of casting? Well, when we brought Liz Merriweather on and Kim Rosenstock as our showrunners, then all of a sudden I started getting emails from agents and people kind of pitching me celebrities, which was so fascinating.

It's fascinating to get an email from a really, really famous person's agent saying, hey, take a look at her reel. And here I am sitting and I can't say any names. I wish I could because I was just like, I'm going to be watching blah, blah, blah's reel to be like, is she good enough? Is she good enough to play me? Yeah.

So weird. And there were so many options for Nikki, but they really couldn't cast Nikki, really, until they got their Molly. And Michelle, I think, had gotten pregnant and had a baby and then the strikes. And then it just kind of, it kept,

And going and going. And finally, once Michelle locked in, we were off to the races because we knew we had the perfect Molly. She looks like her. She embodies her. She is like so good as Molly. And then after that, we were like... No, someone at that caliber, they don't have to read or anything. She doesn't have to audition. I don't think so. No, right. But you know what? Jenny came in and did a chemistry read with Michelle. Oh, okay. She came in and did it. She was like, of course. And I love her. Yeah. She went in and once they got together...

It was like fire. And they just knew that she was right for the role of Nikki. And I can't think of a better Nikki. And how did they do a chemistry test? They actually gave them a scene to do? Yeah. So I believe, okay, Gina Bacharach, I don't know if you know her. She casts the bear. She's amazing. And Jessica Daniels are the casting directors. So they facilitate that Michelle comes in. Liz, I think Liz was in the room. And Jenny comes in and just like in a room like this with two chairs. Yeah. And they just sit and do a scene. And what?

And was that incredibly surreal for you to witness? I didn't get to witness it, but I'm just pretending like I did. But I think what was surreal for me was to hear about it because I would get feedback from the casting directors. They'd tell me the little tidbits of the story because this was all happening, I think, in New York, I want to say. And I just couldn't believe it. When I remember...

It was around New Year's. I got the call that Jenny was going to play me and that we were starting production within like a month. It was a long process, but then when it happened, it happened very quickly. And I remember thinking...

Oh, my God, Jenny Slate. What a perfect me for the Michelle playing Molly. Like it just felt like the right fit. And so now so then it starts getting underway. Where did they film it? We decided to film in Brooklyn and that Molly was born and raised in New York. So it kind of felt like going going back home. And New York is such a Brooklyn is such a sexy city. Like how does that happen where the.

The stuff took place in L.A., but they decide we think for the sake of everything. Because I personally love any show that's shot in New York. There is something special about it. It's such a character. It's a whole other character. It feels hipper cooler. Like, how does that come about where they say that? And was there any part of you that was like, oh, all right, I imagined us going to Alfred's, but whatever. Yeah.

Right? Hugo's for the 12th time. No, I wasn't really married to L.A. I mean, when they did tell me they were doing it in New York, I was like, oh, hadn't thought of that as an option. I just assumed it would be L.A. Michelle lives in Brooklyn. Liz lives in Brooklyn. I think a lot of scheduling and a lot of organization. But Brooklyn for me and New York felt like such a great backdrop. It's such a sexier, grittier place.

than L.A. where you're like... And do these characters, are they like in the business? Are they actors or are they just friends? Well, Molly's character is not in the business at all. And Jenny's character is a theater actress, which I thought was interesting that they took some of that from my life. I mean, I started in theater. But the irony here is that I really don't like Shakespeare. Like...

I don't. I mean, I've seen some good Shakespeare, but it's not my jam. But Jenny loves Shakespeare and quotes it all the time in the show. And I just think it's really funny. I don't know. I just think it's super funny. I love when they take liberties and make it so funny and make it so... I mean, it's all based in the truth. But they took so many great liberties and kept so many beautiful little sweet moments. There was such a nice balance of...

making it their own, but also staying true to me and Molly. Then now as a, as you're being your life story, the creator, like the EP, but you're not the writer, you're not the director. Yeah. Like how much do you get to say or show up or you just sit back, collect the check and wear a cute dress to the event? Well, a normal person would do the latter, but I was like,

So let me in here. And Kim and Liz were so, so great. They always called me. They said, Molly's the North Star of this project, but you are our North Star as well. So I got to be in the writer's room. It was all virtual. I got to sit on the phone and do timelines and outlines. And they would, I mean, we would get on the phone for hours.

hours at a time sifting through. So I was very, very involved. I think at first there was a little worry of like, am I going to be that person? Well, that's not how it was. Or how, why are you changing that? The podcast was there. Molly was so held sacred in that space. I felt like this was a re-imagination of the show. And I, I mean, I trusted, I mean, hello. So I just trusted it. And

there were very few times that I raised my hand and said hey question or let me but I I felt really and I felt very involved and I felt really seen and heard and all of it now um how do you feel about like life after death and have you had any moments where you feel like wow that was a sign or I think she's here that's good have you how do you sit with that well the fact that um

And when Molly passed away, I was laying, her mom was laying in the bed next to her and I was in the chair sort of facing her and my hand was on her leg. And Heather, I fell asleep and something woke me up and she was sedated and her mother was asleep. But something tapped the underneath of my fingers. And when I woke up, I woke up for her last two breaths.

And there is no way that that was happenstance. Like she woke me up to say, it's time. You need to get up. And I was with her and I put my hand on her chest and my hand on her head. And I said, I'm here and I got you. And she took her final two breaths. And there was something. Was her mom awake? Her mom was asleep. Because she didn't want her mom awake. I bet. I bet she wanted you for that moment.

To then go and wake up the mom. Yeah. That's how it went. I mean, she kind of orchestrated it. I love that you just said that. Yeah. She, she, something tapped my finger so much so that I thought a nurse was in the room hitting my hand. And so to answer your question is like, I do believe that our brains could never,

understand what's on the other side. I love when people are like, well, I know my faith says this. And I was like, well, none of us know. We don't have a clue. And faith is beautiful, by the way. Have it. I love it. But we have no answers. But when things like that happen,

there's no denying that something outside of our human selves was in that room waking me up. So I think there's, I think there's something else out there. Yeah. What do you think? Well, there's interesting signs. Like my parents have passed and. Oh gosh. Yeah. And I remember one of those like interesting, stronger signs that I had is that I was like on a girl's trip or something. And we were waiting to like get our, to go get our massages.

And I told this story about my dad, which I just know that my dad would love this story. And it's about...

When he was in advertising and he fought in World War II against Japan and now he was going to Japan because he was an executive for Toyota. And then he's meeting with these guys that at one time were also in the army fighting him and he was like, this is so weird. And he got there, they stood up and they're like, oh, McDonnell Marine and like bowing to him. And it was this amazing thing. And it was this amazing story of

capitalism after war, whatever. So I told the story and then I go to get, to go get my massage right after, like right after. And she goes, oh, and let me show you to your locker.

And your locker is 34. And my dad's football number was 34. And every passcode, bank, everything was 3434 for everything. Yeah. For everything. Yeah. And I was like, yeah. So I'm like, oh, he's loving that I'm telling the story. He's letting you know. And so there are things. So sometimes there's just things like that that I just think are just.

Too coincidental. Or if you open your mind to the signs or when you think, or even when people are just, I think alive, like all of a sudden, like,

Like I just had a girlfriend call me out of the blue, but she was still on my phone to just ask me about her son possibly going to ASU. Yeah. And we've been moving and literally a box the next day I take, I see a box and by the third photo, it's just she and I together. And I haven't talked to her in so long part of that. So I do think there's a lot where it's like you put it out there and whether it's,

Your thoughts are this or that somewhere in the universe, whether it's someone from the other side actually manipulating 34 or whatever. You know, I just I just wondered if this coming to fruition, if there's any signs or anything that you felt like.

I've been asking her for signs because I'm kind of the Lone Ranger doing this without her. I feel a little bit of that guilt of like, oh my God, all of this is happening and she's not here. Is there like a premiere party or anything you're going to? Yeah, we're going to go. I'm going to be, I'm going to go to New York. Do you have your outfits together? I do. I do. I'm glad you asked. I got my lashes done. My nails done. I mean, I went, I like left my sweatpants. Okay. And like actually thought ahead. Well, as I was getting my dress, I thought,

She's not getting a dress like this sucks, like not having her with me. But yet without her passing, this story would not have touched as many people as it's touched. And have you had people reach out and say, I am terminal and I am going to get my fuck on? Hundreds. Didn't even face me that you said, get my fuck on. I want that on the mug. Get my fuck.

Nobody said it verbatim. Yes. But yes, I've had so many people that are like, this is I had I had one guy who I'm actually working with a guy who reached out to Molly on her Instagram. But I had her phone and she had already passed. He didn't know she had passed yet. And he was reaching out and he's like, I have stage four terminal melanoma skin cancer. You have cancer. We're both dying. You're hot. I think I'm cute. We should definitely hook up.

And so now I'm working with him on his life story because he is doing what Molly did, but with a lot more adventure and travel and meeting women all over the world and sleeping with them because he knows he's on a ticking clock and he just wants to explore things. But he reached out to Molly to see if she wanted to connect. And I had to break it to him that she had already passed away. But the ripple effect of her story, because people don't know she's gone yet when they listen to episode one, two, and three, they're like, okay.

Oh, here's this amazing woman. When we did the promo for the podcast, we couldn't really reveal that it was that terminal. Yeah. Yeah. So people would get a spoiler. Yeah. Which is weird to take your friend's life and be like, don't tell anyone she's dead. But it was kind of like wanted to keep that kind of a secret to give people this journey of falling in love with Molly and then feeling I wanted them to feel the loss of Molly. I wanted them to feel like they lost her too so that they could stop and go,

okay, what am I doing in my life? Who are the important people in my life? Who do I want to connect with? Who are the friends I want to be near? And kind of inspire those kinds of thoughts. So yeah, it was like a secret. And you went with it. I remember you were like, so we can't talk about the fact that she's dead? And I'm like, no. It's weird. I'm so happy for you. Thank you. I'm definitely going to watch it. I can't wait to hear what you think. Of course, I'm dying to watch it. I'm dying for sex.

And, yeah, I remember once promoting the podcast, how many people really liked it. And I love that if you did enjoy the podcast, this is a little different of a version of that. And you can have fun with it, just like you read a book. 100%. And then you go see the book and you're like, oh, I imagined her to have red hair. Whatever. It doesn't matter. Yeah. And...

And so congrats. Thank you. And thanks for having me. It's like nominated. And I hope this, it sounds like it's leading to a whole nother, this isn't the end for you. Like there's going to be other opportunities and other careers. I mean, other things from this, from your career as an EP and taking people's life stories and making them shows. And I think it's like a great time for that in the business. Yeah. Thank you. And so talk about making lemonade out of lemons, girl. Yeah.

In the best way. Like grinding it. Yeah. I know. Thanks for saying that. I just, I love you and I think that you've always just been a great support and inviting me to talk about her and it like really at the end of the day, all we have are the

the pot of people around us and how they make us feel. I mean, you've always just been so good to me. So I appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. And tell everybody where they can follow you, like on Instagram or get in touch with you. I am on Instagram at Nikki Boyer. I don't really use anything else. And it's N-I-K-K-I. N-I-K-K-I-B-O-Y-E-R. And I'll be posting...

a ton about the show and behind the scenes photos if anybody's interested. And also Molly's book, like she wrote a book when she was in the hospital as she was dying. She wrote her memoir. And what's that called? It's called Screw Cancer Becoming Whole. And it's just on Amazon. I self-published it. And great. If you're interested, like I just love...

that she got to be a published author. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I love you. Thank you. Everybody, it's on Hulu. It starts April 4th and you can binge the whole thing or you can keep it like a little treat. I like to spread stuff out. You like a treat? Okay. I like a treat because I don't feel like there's that much good stuff. I know. So when you get a juicy thing. But I also think

If you're flying somewhere, I like doing a series versus like two movies. No, that's smart. I feel like the five, six hours go by a lot quicker if you do a whole series. So if you're going somewhere for spring break, this could be one that focuses you. And one more thing is I want to do your show.

And we got to figure out who we're casting as you. You'll never blue ball this time again. Yeah, we're going to figure it out. Okay, awesome. I'm putting that out there. Let's put it out there. Thank you. Bye. You guys, okay, remember, go to heathermcdoll.net, join the Patreon. Now, I am going to Augusta. This is the Masters. This is like the final big golf thing where I'm going to see families like the Ravenals and the Radcliffs or whatever their names were in Augusta.

the fictional family of White Lotus. I'm going to see a lot of rich Southern people. I cannot bring my phone and take a bunch of videos or anything. So I am going to be talking about it on my Patreon. So you definitely want to join my Patreon. It's so juicy, so great. And there'll be some extra content about this

Different week. I don't know what to expect. I'm going to Augusta. I'm going to Luigi's. I'm going to these places that, you know, is where Sutton grew up. So I think I'm going to be meeting some interesting characters because I can't be on my phone. I can't be taking photos. And I'm actually going to be like really present and excited. And I want to give you all the juicy scoop. So you go to HeatherMcDonald.net for that.

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