Fake Pregnancies and Blake Lively’s Regrets with Dave Neal
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Juicy Scoop.

Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Yes, if you're watching this on YouTube and you better be, you better subscribe, you better like it, you better ring the bell, do all the stuff.

We are in a new studio and I have a first-time guest, also a YouTube delight, Dave Neal, flew all the way from Nashville to come be on Juicy Scoop. Welcome. Yeah, this is exciting. I've got like a Bravo crush here. This is, you're it. You're like, you're the mother of Bravo. You're so sweet. I love it because people were,

DMing me from different sources or in comments on my Patreon, on DM, on my Juicy Scoop Obsessed on Facebook, Instagram, saying, you've got to have Dave Neal on. He said some really nice things about you. Well, when I hear that, I have to stop everything. Sure. Because I...

I love a good compliment. So yeah, so then I watched it and I was like, oh my God, so nice. And you were just like, yeah, I want to be on the show. Put me on. I'm like, perfect.

Well, there was a lot of meat left on the bone from what Nick, your guest, was saying. And I've come from the bachelor world as a commentator, so there's always like that dissent. It's like when, like in the political world, after the State of the Union, the other political party will give their response. That's my video. It's always like, you're wrong about this. Right. So you did almost the entire conversation about Blake Lively and Justin and all that on the show. And...

Yes. So then I went back on his show and I said, hey, there was some controversy, you know, about people not really liking your appearance on my show for some reason. And I said I didn't have a problem with it. I didn't feel like I was being mansplained to or whatever. But it's always interesting when like an audience member or a listener sees it differently than me.

than me. Yeah. Well, I think people just, when he says, oh, I don't understand all the backlash. Well, I'll show you the receipts. They were so flippantly like, this, you know, they speak in these truths and it's like, you're sharing your opinion but we have all of these receipts that show a completely different story. And,

Audiences just want some authenticity there to speak it peacefully. So I went on the show. He is very still, very team Blake and Ryan. He believes that Justin is not a good guy, that there's no reason not to believe everything that Blake has said from the very start. And...

I was like, I feel like I was a pretty balanced person because when I first heard about, I'll put this up, when I first heard about the Spear campaign from the New York Times article article,

Like I've said before, pretty compelling. And I was happy that it was like being exposed. And then obviously when more came out and he thought back and showed all the other things. So what I've always said now, this is where I am now.

I do believe that there could have been a smear campaign. I'm not, I don't think that maybe it wasn't. Maybe he was like Ronald Reagan with, you know, not knowing what's going on in the White House type of a thing. Maybe he didn't know what his team was doing and there was some of it happening. I think it's possible, but it'll be hard to prove. I don't think that he sexually harassed her in terms of sexual harassment, but

And which is also a fine line. It's not assault, you know. And I think he has every right to expose all of it and gain his reputation that was just starting to build. And then he lost the Pac-Man movie, lost the agent and get get that reputation back so that he can have.

a great career for the next 40 years. He wasn't just going to crawl away. So that's where I am with it. Yeah. But I am also just kind of fat. Like I am still fascinated and I still see all the sides of like who Blake is and why, um,

why people kind of love to be like, we found a bitch and let's prove it is also kind of fascinating. Well, I think as like, as a comic, you're probably really good at reading people. You have to be right. You have split second decisions on folks. Justin, maybe, maybe there's virtue signaling that happens. And someone like Nick sees that as like,

oh, he's faking it. Like Nick wants to own the position as the guy who gives dating advice online as if that hasn't existed since the beginning of time. Right. And yeah, you're, you're allowed to change your opinion, but Nick wanted you to prove why Justin was innocent versus Blake has to prove why she was assaulted. And so he was asking you what evidence you had. And it's like, we're all here independently going, what evidence does she have? We

We were told this story. We believed it. We all know about astroturfing and how it's astroturfing. That's basically like when it's a fake grassroots movement. So it's like if an insurance company will hire a bunch of people to tell you that so-and-so hates their, they hate their free insurance in Canada. That's, they literally pay to get that conversation out there. So you believe that like, oh, they all hate their insurance. They have to wait too long for it or whatever.

It's like astroturfing exists politically. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't really know that. But I understand what you mean. I don't think I knew the term. Yeah, and it's exactly what it sounds like. It's fake grassroots. And it exists. And I'm always there to call that out because it's so easy how quickly people can be manipulated based on one story, a couple upvotes, a couple people commenting. And we were kind of astroturfed.

to believe that Blake was this person who had all of these claims against him. And then when he provided the evidence, if you can't believe, if she kind of like lies or stretches the truth about one of those claims, a jury is basically instructed to just throw it all out. And it's like Amber Heard,

Because in Amber Heard's case, she lied about donating money to the ACLU, which was a really big deal. She later said, I pledged to donate. Bullshit. She lied about it. And then the old Latin saying is like falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. Lie about one thing, lie about everything. So Blake doesn't have any credibility because she tried to make that water birth a porn thing.

Which remind people of that. It was just a video that was... So they were talking about how we're going to do the birth scene. And Justin had a video. Now, first I heard it was his wife. Then I heard it was his friend's wife. Jamie Heath.

It was his friend's wife. Yeah. And he's like the CEO of the company. Okay. And he was like, we could do something like this. Beautiful, spiritual shot from over the top water birth video. Nothing like through the legs, nothing, you know, and like, yeah, here's the tone and anyone's worked in film. You have the vision board and she threw the pornography term out there. Like they were trying to just share porn with me without any elaborating that that wasn't the truth whatsoever. So as Justin, like,

systematically responded to each claim, the whole audience goes, wait a second, were we duped? You know, and the quarter billion dollar emoji, the emoji that was the upside down smiley face, which shows sarcasm, was redacted from the text messages that was Blake Lively's biggest claim, which was Justin's side saying, we can do this, you know, we got her, whatever. Oh, you got me? Like, and in fact, she was just being sarcastic because it was- Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Who who did the emojis? It was Justin's PR. People were basically texting back and forth saying like, oh, this story's, you know, this bad story about Blake. Oh, that's the work of us or whatever. When in fact, it was just organic people that had issues. And the emoji was to say, obviously, we're joking.

Yeah. And then that emoji was not part of the New York Times article to show. And their claim is that when you export these through a subpoena, the emoji goes away. And it's like, well, the emoji is kind of important. Well, I mean, text messages are just such a huge thing now when they're like, we want to see your correspondence, this and that. Hence why...

I always am like, if I have an issue with somebody, I'm like, can we talk on the phone? Always. Now, of course, you could still record that, but it wouldn't be able to be used. And I don't know why so many people continue to... Like, I know...

As someone who's older, I've been told if I call someone, they're like, that's really aggressive that you called. Well, I live in California. You have the time. You're driving. Get all your calls in. Yeah. So I do talk also because there's been times where I would do like, okay, and people would go, Heather's a bitch. She just wrote okay. And I'm like-

Or like the thumbs up emoji responding. Someone is like, I guess I'll go fuck myself. It's a big deal. Yeah. Thumbs up is or that that upside down emoji is a big deal. Yeah. And how did they get the text in the first place? How do you get a subpoena when there was no court number yet? So there's a lot of questions that they don't have answers to. And the New York Times hides behind like freedom of speech, freedom of press. But at what point did they not do their due diligence? They gave Justin Baldoni 10 hours to respond. I mean, imagine if you got a 10 p.m. on a Friday.

to respond. They scrambled to respond by 11 a.m. the next day. December 21st, you're baking cookies with your family. They find out they uploaded the article anyway and the video to go along with it. So they weren't going to share his side. And then we also just have to think about the first few weeks of his life just crumbling in front of him.

Yeah. And it's like, you know. And William Morris can say, oh, that's not why we dropped them because of, you know, Ryan and Blake. It never is. But throughout my life in this business, I have seen when someone has been let go from a TV show I've been on.

All of a sudden, the agent of the host also then dumps that person. Yeah, because they have mouths to feed, too. So like they're going to protect Ryan Reynolds at all costs. Even if the boss or even if the more powerful person didn't pick up the agent and say, you better dump my ex-husband or my ex-employee, even if they didn't say it.

It happens sometimes to please the bigger star. Implicit decisions. Right, to please the bigger star. And so it has this effect that there isn't an email that says from Ryan to the agent, you better dump. There isn't anything like that. And there might not even been a verbal phone call. It just is like...

If there's a conflict of interest here and you'd be better served, you know, someplace else. Almost like don't even force Ryan Reynolds to make that call. Like do it beforehand. Right.

And like, that's the beast. And yeah, and they're only going to hire people, like synergize people within the agency and all of the co-stars and Brandon Sklenar is with WME. And I think he's a good actor and he's in a lot of hit shows, 1923. So like the guy's on his own like trajectory to be like a Helmsworth style. Yeah. But like they're all tight-lipped. And this is what I hate the most about Hollywood because there's a lot of things I love about the creativity and collaborations here, but everyone's tight-lipped trying to protect themselves.

And it's like, who's going to have some balls to just say what's right versus like jump on the what's safe to say and then back away? I mean, I've seen it happen so many times in my own life, just on very tiny scales.

But when you do speak out, everyone will then DM you afterwards and be like, it's so brave of you. But they don't have that. And you'll be rewarded for it in the long term. Even if he gets blackballed from WME, he'll have an audience if he can make a good movie. It'll make its way to the audience. Yeah.

With Ryan Reynolds, I've said this. I'm like, because the Deadpool, I don't know what the deal is. Are there like as many that can go on? Could there be like 12 more? They can do, I mean, it's huge. They can just do it forever, right? And he's going to make that 10% or whatever it is. The agency is going to make such a killing off of all future deals and merchandise. And if there's another Deadpool, my kids aren't going to be like, my college-age sons aren't going to be like, you know what, mom? Ow!

Absolutely not. Don't put that on Netflix because I don't think I like how he treated Justin Belder. The audience isn't the audience that cares. It's like throwing a lawn chair off the deck of a cruise ship. This is an international audience. They're making a billion dollars for

video they're gonna be hurt by universal rides with the Deadpool they're gonna like it's yeah I mean he might be to some extent like it'll take he'll take a PR hit but I've always said Blake Lively best thing she can do if she made it all up give a great apology go take some time off and come back with a nice arthouse movie people will forgive you like they will people online will say no way Dave that's not the case most people are pretty reasonable they'll say boy whatever you got caught up in what could she say

I think she, the only thing she could say at this point is, you know, for the sake of my mental health as being a mother of four, I want this chapter to end. And I want Justin to go on and be successful. And I want to put this movie and everything behind us. And therefore, I am...

What do you call it? Redacting. Redacting, yeah. But I don't think that's enough for him. I don't think that's enough either. She has to say. I'll tell you. What does she have to say? Tell me what she has to say. She has to say, I got it wrong. I read it wrong. I felt triggered by this person who is of a lower level than me. She has to go full out. He's lower level. He doesn't have as much...

career like knowledge about the experience and here he is directing his scenes telling me what to do I read it wrong I got triggered it brought up a lot of bad shit I see my husband and my best friend as billionaires leading their lives and I feel like I'm you know working at a pay cut on a smaller film so like that's on me she has to make it all about her and say I read it wrong and when I looked when I looked at it from a new light I realized he was just doing his job and it's a difficult and put

Make it about, oh, it's a difficult position that he's directing himself in a sexually charged scene. And now I realize, I realize now, like she has to come to these realizations. I mean, I also think she's in a marriage where they have, I do think they'll stay together forever. If they were to break up, it would have happened by now. And she would have used that.

Like, I'm separated from Ryan. Ryan is the one that, like, got weirdly jealous. And to placate him, I kind of exaggerated or I, again, misinterpreted something. And it got out of hand. I never wanted to file this thing. I don't think that's going to happen. That would have had to have happened, like, a month ago. It would have been very helpful if this happened, yeah, a month or two ago. But it's not going to. And I think they really are like two peas in a pod. I think they are like...

completely the same kind of type of person, girl, you know, girl, boy version of each other. And so...

Yeah, but I don't know how it's going to go away at this point because you're right. Now he's like, why would I go okay now? I love Honey Love. Some of the things I love about it besides making me look better in everything I put on when I've got Honey Love under it is that Honey Love is an independent female-founded brand. All Honey Love products are independent.

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Yeah, and they say you mature at the level where you received your fame. And when you do comedy, you spend years grinding and learning a lot and losing your ego and all of that. Let's know a little bit about you, but you're a stand-up. Yep. You guys were here. You have a young wife and baby. Yep.

And then you started your channel how long ago? I've run my YouTube channel for a very long time, but it started becoming my full-time job during the pandemic. Oh, okay. And I started making daily videos, which turned into daily podcasts, now twice daily podcasts. So now you do stand-up still? Yep.

Okay, cool. So go on. Yeah, so you just, you grind it out and you learn what it's like to be sort of in the background. Like I worked as an extra on Gossip Girl and Jane the Virgin. You learn what it's like to make a hundred bucks a day freezing your ass off in the winter in New York. And did you have any firsthand knowledge of

how they were perceived as stars. Well, my wife worked on, as a stand-in on the show too. And before we even met, we all kind of worked in the same ecosystem in New York. And we both had the same vibe, which is she looks unhappy. She looked unhappy back then. Yeah. And you know, you give, you give grace and you go, well, maybe she's just trying to memorize her lines.

Right. But then everybody's got a story about how they were treated. They were like early 20s, but treated as like teens. They kind of played into that rich teen character where the production assistants had to just get

get off, they would hand out like these video games for them to play. Give us your video games back. You're going to set. You know how it is with first team. Like we'd like to invite you to set. Once you get started treated, once you get treated with those white gloves, you start to like think that you've earned it. And I just see that. Because it came so easily. Yeah. And she, and as she says, she's like, I don't, I want to be more than an actor. And it's like, I get it. Once you've acted,

it a little bit, you don't get the joy out of just reading somebody's lines. Everyone wants to become a director and have creative control. Yeah. And like, that's what comedy is great. You would never recite a bit from somebody else, even if it was the best bit in the world. You want that ownership over it. And so she, whatever dopamine you might get from the quick paychecks of being a TV celeb, that goes away quickly. And it's like filling up that dopamine with the next thing. And she sees Taylor and Ryan as these monoliths.

that have done all these great things. And I can understand that being this character who's just like in that movie is not all that challenging for her. But like, it doesn't give you the right to have that kind of collateral damage. It's interesting because, yeah, the first...

The first role that she played was like a bitchy, entitled girl, privileged girl. And it was so believable. Also in A Simple Favor, very believable. I mean, I really liked that movie. And then also he always played like a kind of a cocky dick. And so then they get together. And I also think he thinks he's funnier than he is. And, you know, they had some success with some clever tweets when no one else was tweeting. Yeah.

And I think that she also thinks she's really funny and she's really not. Like his character is so great because he's like comedy adjacent straight man. Right. Yeah. And by that, I mean who we played on that SNL when he was like, wow, what have you heard? That's perfectly his character, like right in his zone. And she doesn't pull off comedy outside of what

probably her like inner circle. She's probably like really funny. She in like a mean girl way. But when you take that brunch mimosa mean girl funniness and do it in front of like on a panel where you're making fun of Leighton Meester for like your mom went to prison. It's like that's when you were born in a cage. Yeah. That's where I'm like, yeah, you think that it's funny and you're not thinking it through that this could be extremely hurtful, painful, uh,

I mean, maybe, you know, maybe. And I'm sure she gets less. I just got how she's going to get out of this. What's that? She's going to say I had a late in life diagnosis and I'm on the spectrum.

Go for it. And I misunderstand social cues. And I misunderstood his social cues for something else. Well, I mentioned postpartum anxiety. And people say, well, she was like this before. Sure. But this is the boiling point. This is the flew too close to the sun, whether it's spectrum or some sort of anxiety. The mind ruminating can do crazy things. We're giving her a million outs that are plausible. The truth is most people aren't psychopaths.

Most people don't inflict damage with no feeling whatsoever. It's more of an anxiety and maybe a sociopathy. Yeah. But it's like she probably thought she was in the right. Also, if your spouse is jealous and you know his triggers, whatever, I think then she may have been like,

Oh, my God. I am not flirting with him. In fact, he's creeping me the fuck out. And then said things are exaggerated. And then he clocked all that and did the Deadpool thing and it pissed him off. And then when they...

believed that there was an active campaign because she's waking up at three in the morning crying about another TikTok and another video that makes her look like an asshole. And then they go look into it and he's like, F this guy. He doesn't even know. And in the moment she might've felt like, oh, my hero, Ryan, right?

and not really sitting down and really thinking it through and how the public would possibly consume it or not. Well, because he knows the equity he has in the leverage that can go on behind doors. And that's what that initial complaint was. Don't do all of these things. They got Baldoni, they got him by the balls to say, well, you're not going to come back to set unless you agree to these things. Right, so there was that letter. There was the letter before when they took the break for the strike, I guess. Right.

And they had our... So that is where it does give her some legitimacy. Like, she did have complaints, right? But those complaints were not... There was no valid complaint. Like, they hadn't even done these intimacy scenes yet. Oh, okay. So the complaints were kind of, like, signed under duress in protest by them because they were saying, like, we have to agree to these. Like, of course we wouldn't do these things. The producers, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so when they then took that...

complaint that was that was like a big deal to have that yeah and force them to kind of acquiesce and give her all this control and then i don't think any of that was supposed to come public that was just leverage and then when it does go public it's like two two it just blew up and then they they they received so much backlash obviously because baldoni had the receipts to defend himself

And one of your videos that you did, you got a letter from somebody. How did you find the letter? Of someone that actually worked on...

This is us. It ends with us. Yeah, those were all just anonymous things posted online. Oh, okay. But they did go – there were things posted months before the smear campaign started. Right. That was it. And by the way, I see the smear – I see what she sees as a smear campaign. I'm like relaying it as like jujitsu. He knows what she can do to him.

So he's getting this crisis management ready. That's jujitsu. It's self-defense, right? He's not learning this jujitsu in order to attack her. He's just trying to be ready. So you think he got the team but never did anything with it? He knew he was going to get, like, me-too'd. And he knew what was going to happen. After the premiere, right?

In one way or another, he was prepared that this could happen. Oh, okay. Because I... And again, I think, assuming that she never provides any credible examples of harassment, I think that he knew she had this over his head and...

At some point, she's... In calling Hoover, can try to get rights to the film. I mean, the film made a quarter billion dollars. The second... Yeah. So, like, if there's a morality clause... Does he still have rights to the second one? I believe so. Okay. And so the morality clause would have been able...

If this had gone through and he would have crumbled and walked away, then he would have walked away from the rights to the second one. Yeah. And then they could have done something with it. She could have played the part. And I've been so generous. All I've said Blake Lively needs to convince me is a text message to her agent, to Ryan, to anybody. I know if my wife's at work and the thermostat's set too cold, I hear about it.

Right. You go, oh, it's fucking freezing in here. The lady, you know, you hear about it in the spot. Find me a timestamp from that window of when this would have happened. You know, the H.R. complaint would be would be a nail in the coffin. But find some piece of evidence that wasn't afterwards. Well, I mean, the other thing is when it's when things like that are happening,

It's uncomfortable and you don't always share it in the moment. You maybe don't want to share it with your husband at that time. A best friend, but agent? Like your agent, your SAG rep? But I also think in saying that, which will be interesting...

is was she saying it to the Jenny Slate who played, you know, the best friend? Was she saying it to Isabella? But was she also saying it to plant the seeds and kind of,

bitch about the boss. You know what I mean? And because the young girl, Isabel, who played her, she said she spent the night, she hung out with her. There's videos that people have done in which she clearly has lent her earrings to wear on the red carpet of hers and kind of like marking her like you're my little...

you know, little sister, niece, whatever. And you're not, you know, I've been so wonderful to you. You'll never not go against me. That's why I'm like, I do think it needs to be a trial. Yeah. I mean, because I do think we need to put all these people on the stand, including Taylor, like Taylor Swift. I think we do. I think we need to have these people deposed and they're all like,

Being quiet and not saying anything because they don't want to be dragged into like they all they all for the most part commented Brandon Sklenar did people commented before Justin's response saying what basically in support of Blake, okay, and then since Justin's response silence is deafening and

If it was bullshit, like no, not one person has been like, hey, this is yeah, this is more nuanced than we thought, you know, and I and it is like a game of chicken where they cut the brakes. Right. The brakes are cut because they're going full speed and it's a game of chicken. Who's going to flinch? And Brian Friedman, Baldoni's attorney, is like, we're not settling this one unless you get one of those insane apologies. And the most lawyers that know these things go in. Ninety nine percent has to settle like it has to settle. But like who's going to flinch? Right.

And that's why we got a year. And then what would the settlement be for? I mean, it's not going to just be for 100 grand. It would have to be for millions. I've heard 100 million. I've heard 50 to 100 million, which they have. Is what Blake and Ryan would have to offer. Along with a real apology. And it would have to be negotiated. Like this has to be not like no retracting, like not like, well, no, it has to be like, hey, I got it wrong.

I don't think that you can convince these two with their personality type to do it. Which makes it crazy. I think it will go all the way.

I really do. I hope so for the sake of, I mean, I hate to say it from like the gladiator perspective, but like it's, it's interesting. And I've said this time and again, and this, these types of conversations can really annoy the pitchfork like mob in some cases where they're like, no, like go effort. It's like, no, if she does apologize, people do. I mean, look at some of the politicians that have done some crazy shit and apologize. Like Anthony Wieners, like still in this world, like there's crazy, like crazy,

apologize go away to some treatment thing come back in a couple years like i said knock it out of the park with a with a period piece movie go play a different character and like you'll be redeemed in one way or another audiences will like the comeback but you have to admit wrong you have to stop digging to find your bottom right exactly and then in this scene you know that someone said look she's biting his bottom lip

And then I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting, too, because she had done that one text to him, like, always without teeth. I'm like, is she referring to that? Is she referring to always?

and I'll blow you. Like, what was that? And if it does go to trial, you'll be analyzing these moments. And there's going to be the before the scene, like, you know, they roll before the yell action and then afterwards audio. Yeah, yeah. And then he goes cut and then he goes and does his thing. But he's like, she had claimed that, oh, he was speaking to me out of character. And, you know, when you know how it works as like actor director, we've all, if you've ever, I've done make out scenes. And also you did sexy scenes with Ben Affleck.

at 21, like you've done all these things. You were like, no, I'm good not meeting the intimacy coordinator before. And it's all those things. And yeah, it's all kind of circumstantial, but it's not, what is the crime? Like, what is the lawsuit? Like, it's just so gray. And look, I've been on set pre Me Too and post. Yeah. And it has been a big change where they block off Video Village.

And for the people that don't know the difference, like pre-Me Too. Explain Video Village. Yeah, Video Village is where they'll have like three or four monitors of what's being shot and the directors around them. But what would happen pre-Me Too is if there's a nude scene, you got the teamsters are showing up, the crafty guys walking around. All of a sudden, the 90% male audience in the crew is just like around set. Lurking. Lurking.

Maybe with their own camera. Like, all that stuff's happening. Now they have the rules where they put up the drapes and they block it off. And I've also been in... done intimacy scenes where I'm standing in for, like, someone where there is violence in the scene. And if you don't properly alert everyone to what's going on, yeah, people do get, like...

abused or triggered. I mean, it's dark. You're reenacting monstrous things. Yeah. And you don't have like necessarily safe words, but now, now with intimacy coordinators, they try to get everyone on board, but this is an instance to show, well, you got to get a little bit more precise and, and, but like Justin did the right thing. He's got the audio, the video. I mean, how many times when there's a, he said, she said, do you have three cameras rolling? So I don't think that benefits her. She, she, she threw the first punch publicly and,

And it was a solid punch. But because he's got backing and money, you know, with Sarowitz, his billionaire backer, he's able to fight a fair fight. And that's all it is, is a fair fight at this point. Right. You know, she tries to make seem like this is a workplace issues. She was in the power position. She made three million where they were all they were all making 10 percent of what she was making. She was the one who could name the negotiations and be in charge.

And now it's just a fair fight and audiences don't buy her side. And that's fair. Like, I think that's a fair position to be in. Very fascinating. This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by Booking.com, Booking.yeah.

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Okay. I also want to talk about this. This was Clayton. He was the bachelor. And there was a crazy story about a woman who he dated who claimed to be pregnant and

You have a big story about it. So tell me, why don't you tell the story? So, yeah. Because some people will remember hearing about the story, remember Clayton. He was on The Bachelor probably, what, like eight years ago? Not even. No, post-pandemic. Oh, okay. Yeah, several years ago. But right at the fall of influencer culture, didn't get that Matt James bump. He was kind of plucked from obscurity. Okay. He was not a top finisher. And people were like, you know, he was on the show. And afterwards...

he had several fake accusations about him, you know, where he had to prove that he wasn't even in the same time zone as the person who accused him of stuff like standard TikTok stuff. Like, oh, I banged the bachelor last night when he was dating Susie and she's like a wedding videographer. So she's at a wedding finding out he's cheating on her. He uses like his GPS from his

to prove he was in Phoenix when the accusation was in New York. And these are just girls making up lies for fun. Made it up. Doubled down on it. And he was like, don't make me get...

police involved. So he had already had these accusations. So when this new one comes out, they used too much of her information in the article that it was easy to identify her. They called her a Scottsdale-based podcaster who had her own TEDx talk. They were immediately able to find out it was this lady named Laura Owens.

So her story was that he was the father for unborn twins. So I cover Bachelor every day. This story wasn't big enough for like the Daily Mail. Like, I mean, but it was in The Sun. It was like, which isn't necessarily credible. So they ran with her story. She immediately gets exposed online because the story didn't sound right. And Clayton's response was, hey, we only had a blowjob.

And so, you know, they start calling the turkey baster babies. And so wait, wait, because what the story I remember is. So Bachelor ends. He goes to Scottsdale. He becomes what everybody becomes when you're an influencer to form a reality star, a realtor. Yeah. And so he's a realtor and he is getting some clients and people calling because they're like, he's hot. He's famous. Yeah.

If I'm going to look for a house, I might as well look with him. Exactly. Right. Which no reasonable person would put their hands of their most valuable, their life savings with someone who just got their real estate license two weeks earlier. Right. So he literally just gets his real estate license.

Then they hook up. So then she calls for him to show her houses. Yeah. And claims like, oh, I've got, I want to actually do like a duplex and something. I have all this money, whatever. And he's trying to, he's like, oh, good. I kind of could have my first sale. Please, my broker.

And then they go out and it leads to a BJ, right? Two BJs. In one night, right? One night and maybe the next morning or something like that. Okay, but no, he claims no penetration. Yeah, not even close. So once he shares this story, people go, whoa. And the initial thing in the son was how she claimed she called Scottsdale police because she was afraid for the safety of her unborn babies. Very chat GPT soap opera-y. Okay, so it ends and he breaks up with her

He tells her like, hey, we can't be doing this. And he said that he said her face changed, which, by the way, I feel like in some ways could be the same thing with Blake, like getting like absolutely triggered by denial. And it can and it just and he said her face changed. And then a few weeks later, he got notification from her that she was pregnant and she did test positive on a pregnancy test, very faint positive test.

And so he sent that to him. Yeah. And so I start covering this as a story comes out. I immediately get get met with, hey, you better cover this fair. I'm going to sue you by her, by her. And then we go, all right, we'll cover it fair. But now that it's getting publicity because people found out who she was, this other lady named Ashley, she's just like badass. She's she finds Clayton and says, hey, Laura did this to my now husband or my partner.

So they are able to link up and find out that two years previously she said she was pregnant with twins with this other guy, whom she also got restraining orders against. After that, we're covering this. Oh, my gosh. And then Laura Owens is emailing me. That's all private information. I'm going to sue you. And like, you don't know. I had to find out that that's not private. And then we find out Mike Maricini from 2016, she claims she was pregnant with. Who is he? Just some random guy? Yeah.

just this all-star of a guy. But he's not famous. Not famous. He's just like a tech bro in San Francisco. And she claimed all these crazy things about him. And she made a TEDx talk where she was a victim of DV because of him. And we start piecing this all together. She ends up

suing me for harassment. She did file a lawsuit. She filed an injunction against harassment, which she later dropped hours before we were supposed to be in court with the agreement that I wouldn't solicit anyone to hurt her. And then two hours later- Where did you have to go to court for it? It would have been the LA court, but at this point I had moved to Tennessee. So I was negotiating with my attorney to basically ... I was ready to show up. I had my refundable tickets ready to go. And then she backed out last minute. So did you have to spend money on an attorney? I spent $10,000.

But here's what's interesting, and this is why the audience is like the main character here. As Clayton was going through his trial, we found out that it was being live streamed. Family court live streamed, like little video. So now they're in court where he's proving I am not the father. He's trying to prove he's not the father. And are there real babies around yet? She's pregnant. So she shows up to court with a bump.

But it's a fake bump. So, yes. And she's doing a teleconference. So she's showing up. She's afraid to go in person. So she's literally there standing up on like a standing desk for like an hour and a half hearing. Like a Zoom. Rubbing her belly. And there's video of her like moving the belly. And, you know, we're measuring... Is it the same one that Beyonce had? Remember Beyonce's belly when they were first child? Well, it was...

We're deflated. This was robust. And we were measuring fundal height. You had nurses trying to measure and look. And it's wild, right? So we're watching this play out. Clayton, they had to delay. They couldn't get through the hearing because it was so much information. So they were like, we have to come back in a week. And I text him and I go, dude, we watched that. That was insane. And he's like, wait, you were in there? He didn't know it was being live streamed.

So he was defending himself and doing a good job for a non-lawyer, but they were objecting to things. He didn't have the proper sort of way to communicate in his defense. I was like, dude, we got to help you. Like, let us get some money together. So we did a GoFundMe raise 10 grand like that for him.

Really? Oh, my God. We hired Greg Woodnick, the attorney that represented the previous victim, Greg Gillespie. Her previous victim. Yeah. So Greg Woodnick knew everything about her already because he represented a client who had the same allegations, but it wasn't a public...

Like a famous person. So the case didn't really go anywhere. Greg Woodnick, the attorney, was accused of conspiring to R-word her in an alley. She emailed the attorney back when it was Greg Gillespie going to trial. She emailed the judge, excuse me, saying, I fear that he's trying to do this. And she accused the lawyer of these crazy things. He had never met her in person before.

And the judge said, you cannot do this. Like you have to do this through the court system. So the judge made that email public. So you can see the emails of her going crazy.

you know, full like nuke on these people. She did the same thing to me. She called the FBI on me, accusing me of revenge porn. I'd never seen a naked photo of her. I never shared any. I've only shared her belly bump that she tried to share with people. Basically, she claims I'm no longer pregnant. So they were like, well, the paternity case is moot. That's done. But we have to argue over who's going to pay the bill. So they still take it to trial. And she gets subpoenaed. Eight different medical people she was supposed to have seen. They all turn up. No one saw her.

The only medical evidence she has was the HCG test she sent me. And I didn't know what it meant at the time because I was in the Maldives on my baby moon. But I go through the documents. Her public HCG test is a 102, which is like day two of being pregnant. The HCG test she sent me was 143,000.

And that's the level of hormone that's in your body, which means you're pregnant. So she doctored it. And she later admitted to this in her deposition. She doctored it to try to get me off of her back. But she says I was still pregnant. So no one knows how she tested positive for pregnancy other than, you know, you could have she could have driven to Mexico or about horse fertility drugs. Who the hell knows? But she she knew she could pee on a stick and test positive with multiple of these men.

Even though she only gave a couple blowjobs. So Mike Maricini, the final nail in the coffin is her attorneys claiming he's a liar. Now he's been harassed, accused of all of these things for years. He was like just accused of being this monster of a guy with no resolution. But now because there's light on the story because of Clayton, Mike goes, you know what? He was like, I actually have text messages from her I forgot I had. And we're like, what?

He's like, yeah, I got this old laptop. And we're like, oh my gosh. And her lawyer got her to do an affidavit, which is like a signed statement saying, I never faked these things. And he goes, no, you said you had ovarian cancer.

So we knew we had to do this the right way. So we raised another five grand, hired a forensic expert, a guy that they bring to trial for government forensics. He was in the military. And I was like, don't even open your laptop. Now, are you doing this all or are you talking to Clayton every day?

I communicated with him and with the other victims, but this is like driven by the audience. Like they're able to, they're able to find the needle in the haystack. I could never find it. He must be so incredibly grateful to you. Yeah. In the, in the whole community. And so, so we, so we get the laptop and Mike, Mike's like, I'm afraid to open this laptop. It's connected to my iCloud. Maybe it all goes away. And I was like, yeah. So he gets it to the forensic guy and they find like 4,000 pages. They verify every text message. She faked ovarian cancer.

She faked the doctors who were writing her letters claiming she had ovarian cancer. One of the letters from the doctor, and they were real doctors, but she faked it all. One of the letters was like, we think that in order to recover from this surgery, your boyfriend should spend time with you. Like those types of things.

batshit crazy. But in the moment, when you're panicked, your rational brain shuts off. So in the moment, this is insane. She also faked being an agent, like a lit agent. She faked her father's agent, this guy like, I don't know, David, I don't remember his name, but it was a Jewish guy. And she said, there's a podcast they want us to do, or a radio show they want me and you to do, Laura and Mike, that's going to pay you $400,000 a year.

So she was coercing these men to stick around with contracts. So she went from radio contract to real estate contract. So when it comes to Clayton, he tried to run away from her. And then she kind of complained to the real estate board because he didn't submit an offer she wanted because technically he was still her agent. And he's like, just get her away from me. I've had this job for three weeks. Right. He tells his boss and it's just a fantastic story. So how did it finally end?

She lost and owes him $150,000 just to court fees. And she's now filing an appeal. Her attorneys had like probably over five or six bar complaints against him, including one from the judge because the attorney started talking mad shit about the judge and tried. And we were all there. Like I was in Arizona, but a hundred people showed up. I reported live from it. Like we followed this thing to the end because this dude is like he messed, he messed with the wrong, like he really did mess with the wrong people.

because like the bandwidth in today's world is like, I will continue to make content and monetize this and fund my innocence along with these other men as long as I need to.

And, you know, some people in the bachelor world are always being obsessive. But like I had the threats of these crazy things against me. So I had to prove without a shadow of doubt that I'm I'm doing like real journal journalistic work here. Right. When no one else would. And this is the problem in like today's world is there is no small media. There's no like local newspaper. You know, like people get away with things until it's too big. And she just slid under the radar. And I always say, like, the irony is like she flew too close to the sun, which is.

hilarious because it was in an article in the sun, but it was like, she flew too close to the sun. She, she outpunted it. She just, she went too far. It got some publicity and folks like me and my audience stopped it. It's, it's fascinating. I'm so fascinated. Um,

I mean, people had said, you know, sent me this story when it was happening and everything. And I was like, oh, my God, I agree with you. This should be a documentary if it's not already in the works. They're fighting over it. And but she's still going to sue me for emotional distress. She won. She sued Greg Gillespie for emotional distress.

Right now she's lost it. But didn't win. No, but like it still cost him a lot of money. And I'm like, whatever. I'll pay in two seconds to defend myself. But like she's lost a bunch of weight. So she lost the emotional distress suit to Greg Gillespie because she didn't have any like receipts of why she was distressed because of him. It was all like loosely connected. So now she learns and evolves her lawsuits.

So the most recent thing is her father has Parkinson's. And by the way, her sister had a baby the previous year, so she stole ultrasounds from her sister. She sent us video of her father touching her belly, which we were able to find out it was her sister's belly because we were able to match moles. You know what I mean? Like the internet. Oh my God. She sent me a video of her dad in the hospital rubbing her pregnant belly. But when you look at it on a desktop, the video shows from the nose down, not the chin down. So we were able to see that it was her sister.

And like ever since I kind of caught her on all this, she just like still plays victim. But have you ever thought about just filing a lawsuit against her for emotional distress of all the shit she's put you through and then go like stress her out? Well, the truth is the truth is the victory. So I'm happy to just be on the right side. But it was it. It taught me a lot about myself and my audience. And they're like with me for life. And that's why they're so loyal, because they're

Yeah, they saw that like we were just trying to do our best and she hassled me. She emailed all these other podcasters. That's why part of my beef with Nick Fial is he says like, well, we covered the case. Clayton tried to get Nick to cover the case for months. He needed the help in October.

And Nick covered it in January, like when it was safe to cover it. So she was already sending everybody like, like basically cease and desist saying, if you, and I've, and I've, people have sent them to me, like, if you share this, I will sue you. And I was like, fuck you. Like, we're going to share the truth here. How am I going to let, and this is what you learn about like some aspects of reality TV. Everyone's in it from, for themselves. I come from like a sports world. Comedians back each other. Yeah.

I knew like if I really ended up getting sued, I could probably try to call on other comics to like who have bigger platforms to like help me out. But in the Bachelor world, there were a few few creators that would cover it. My friend Caitlin Bristow had me on. God bless her from off the vine and shared her audience. Like so certain people have that justice mindset, but.

coming from Greek life, right? Where like people help each other, unions sag, like you help each other. In this instance, it's everyone else in myself. Almost nobody wanted to defend Clayton, even though they knew the truth. And like, I was like, I'm sorry. I used whatever sort of political like equity I had within my community and audience to try to pressure people to cover it. Got me in some trouble because like people were like, man, fuck you. We don't need to cover his, we don't need to fix his mess. But I'm like,

this is wrong. Like we're watching something happen. That's just wrong. And the audience got that, even though they're, what's Clayton doing now? I think he's got, he's got a podcast and he does like fitness. Like he's a real strong guy. It was like, you know, played, played pro briefly. So like he does a lot of fitness stuff. And I think he's just trying to get his story told. There is some things in the works. I'll tell you afterwards, but like that will lead to documentaries. I mean, is he just so grateful to you? I think so.

Yeah, I think so. I think it should be more so. Yeah, but I mean, I got my thing out of it, which is like I got the proof. Well, you know what's interesting is there was a lawyer that or a journalist that interviewed me for what I think is going to be a hit piece on the Blake Lively case. And his biggest thing and he was very and I recorded the whole thing because it's like a one party record state in Tennessee. So I was like, I need this in case like he tries to twist this.

And he was like, why do you think people deserve to care what you have to say about cases? What gives you the power to be someone who has an opinion? And I was like, well, I was threatened with a $120 million lawsuit and I proved myself to be telling the truth. So I think there's some credibility there.

And that's all we have, right, is our batting average. We'll get something wrong. Every once in a while I have a bad take. We get something wrong. But, like, it's all about in the content world, like, what's your batting average of trying to get it right? And with this case, I just kind of was the patsy who got stuck in the middle of it because that's what I cover. But what a fraud I would be if I didn't cover it. Right. But it is a very – for me, it's very stressful when I've been in those situations and I have.

And you know that you're right and you know you will prevail. But you do wake up in the middle of night and you're like,

wait, what worst case scenario? This is pretty fucking awful. Like really get to feel what the panic, like in your DNA, we have this survival mentality. And here I am like late thirties, finally got to buy a home. Like, you know how it is the grind in comedy. Yeah. Finally, four years of chugging on YouTube finally got to buy a home. And now I'm getting threats like a month after I closed on this home that she's going to graze her horses on my property. He called us all these crazy names and like all the, and he did it all publicly.

And then private emails to me. So she's still just living in the parents' house. Yeah. And the appeals in the process. Oh, so then afterwards we do a campaign kind of like how we got on your show here today. I told my audience, I was like, let's reach out to Rachel Mitchell. She's the county prosecutor. Laura Owens isn't being investigated by the county prosecutor right now for different crimes.

So even though she was flying under the radar in this family court, you can't lie like that. And not many people get charged with perjury, even though there's clear perjury. But it might come down to maybe some of the medical crimes, some of the medical fraud that she committed. She admitted to like doctoring images and placing different, you know, laboratories. This is like the ultimate like, you know, Dirty John, but a Dirty Jane, like that.

Because it's not – it's like women who get taken by like a dirty john like for money or whatever, they're always – it's always just like weird and embarrassing. And men that get taken by a woman, it's like, well, you should have known that this young thing was a gold digger.

But this kind of scam that women do, faking cancer, faking pregnancies. Those are the two things they fake because no one wants to ask questions. And also faking pregnancies. That's been happening since biblical times. Women do it. Can you imagine the day though? Because it's the ultimate attention. I had to get on my YouTube and say, I think she's going to fake a miscarriage next.

I had to say it before it happened because it's crazy. And again, by the way, nobody in my audience knew that my wife was pregnant at the time because this was back in October, right? We didn't announce it yet. So like I'm learning a lot about how all of the medical things work and ultrasounds. Well, also you going forward though, you had to 100% believe that.

what Clayton said and that he did not possibly ejaculate inside of her inside of her vagina. None of the evidence led to that so I just all I was doing was following the evidence and I was like I'll change my mind but like where's the ultrasound? You know and she ended up showing some like I mean she ended up providing some photoshopped evidence that was like brutal that it was like so way too late but never death certificates never I mean she stole she stole all the like it was she committed fraud. And just how they pick

How someone who has multiple victims chooses that victim over and over again. Yeah, it's just... Three active protective orders they all have against them, still. And there's other victims. Matt, there's a guy named Sean, a Native American contractor, a non-sexual victim that she duped out of $100,000 worth of construction work. Yeah, there's... And it's really hard because people see it as like...

a victimless crime because it's a guy and you dated this crazy bitch and so what like it's hard to get like a prosecutor excited about something like this there's always bigger things no one was murdered you know like whatever

And that's why they get away with it for so long. That's why the Scamanda podcast and documentary, this girl lied about cancer on and off for 15 years until she finally got caught. And people don't come forward. And tormented, like, the mother of her stepdaughter along the way. Like, it is just... But you're right. And that's why when I like to expose, like, wow, this...

Jay Shetty's origin story is not true. It's not fucking true. And like I had the journalist from that story and I was like, God, nobody cares. Yeah. The Ruby Frank story, people, the journalists were smearing all of the content creators that ended up exposing child abuse. No, look, people get it wrong, right? There's plenty of TikTokers that get it. Like the Boston bombings, everyone was going after like every dude that had a backpack on, right? Like the internet sleuths can get it wrong. But like,

they get it right too. And we need to be able to like take the, take when they get it right. Yeah. But I'm saying there's certain stories where I'm like, I can't believe people don't care more about this. Like if I, if I do it in my one of 10 stories and then I like the next morning, I'm like, Oh, people are going to be like excited about knowing that, you know,

The Mel Robbins story of Let Them came from this girl, Cassie Phillips, who came up with this poem. And still some people will be like, it doesn't matter, Heather. Let Them's been around forever and she just marketed better. And I'm like, that's okay. But then she should have said that. She should have said, I saw this poem or give her credit or not try to trademark it. I'm just saying, you know,

Well, there was a time... I'm just saying, like, look, look, this is... We've seen this thing happen over and over and over again where this person becomes so hyped up and da-da-da-da, and then...

It's just it's interesting to watch, like doing the show for almost 10 years. I'm like, OK, let's see where let's see where she is. And I don't have like a big thing against her. You know, like if she wanted me to come on her show right now, I would. But I would say, why don't you give this girl a little more credit? Yeah. You know, but that's that's the democracy of comedians. Yeah. If someone steals a joke, you know, sometimes you we're talking about the same thing. Yeah. But, you know, when someone stole a joke.

all the comics know you shun that person. But like, if someone's funny, even if they're hack, you're like, Hey, they got a standing ovation. What do you want? Like, it's a clear cut, like there's justice. Yes. And we kind of have unionized on like protecting the, I hate to say, but like the art of it all. But the art of it, but the people that aren't,

That don't care. They're like, well, you know what? I don't think the joke was funny when you said it either like that up in America's Got Talent where they wanted to give one comedians joke to another comedian because in they got there good. They're like no That's not how it works. And they're like, well, we don't get it. What's the big deal? Like they don't you don't always understand It's like that's all you have wait, okay. This is a good story So I was I was testing for this pilot and

And actually, Eliza got it over me, Eliza Schlesinger. But anyway, so this is a long time ago, like over 10 years ago. And Howie Mandel was there. And I was like, oh, my God, we love my kids. I love watching America's Got Talent.

And he's like, what do you think of this comedian that's doing well? And I go, oh, it's funny that you say that. I go, because she does a lot of the same impressions I do. And then I go, oh, but I'll predict that she will do Heidi Klum soon or whatever, you know? And...

And he goes, what do you think? I go, well, I'm like, a lot of people can do the same impressions. I think the comedy comes if you can come up with the person you're doing the impression of a really funny point of view that is their point of view, but also like it's the writing because a lot of people can do Drew Barrymore or whatever, like I can do. And so then...

Anyway, so I don't get it. Eliza gets the pilot. And then my agent at the time calls and is like, hey, they want to know if you'll write for her. And they're going to pay you $250 or something. I'm like...

I am a headlining comedian. Yeah, a comedian would never pitch that to another comic. And I was like, and this girl is doing the similar impressions. I'm like, no, I'm not going to. And you think I need $250? Yeah, let me help her pass me. Yeah, after I just didn't get the hosting thing to pilot. Like, I was just like, the fact that you're asking me, you should have never asked me. Like, it's like so insulting that you even asked me. And then it pissed me off, too, because they made a big deal out of the fact that she stayed home with her kids and

Instead of pursuing the art of stand-up. And Howard Stern is like, oh, you know, like, of course, that's like so amazing. You know, you're such a good mother. So now that you're having this huge opportunity at 40-whatever-

And I was like, that pissed me off too. Versus the grind you've been on. Yeah, because I'm like, yeah, guess what? I didn't... I missed the fucking baseball game while I, like, worked on this. But somehow, oh, let's just, like... And then let me, like, write this. And the girl is...

I don't even remember her name and she's perfectly talented. She might still be pursuing it. She might not. It doesn't matter. But yeah, it's how they frame the story. But it was just kind of like, so I should have taken five years off? Yeah, like 20 years. Yeah, I should have just stayed home and then showed up on America's Got Talent. But of course, that's all the show and it's all, a lot of that is not real either. I can sell more tickets than someone who did five Conan O'Briens.

It's like it doesn't have the equity it used to. But comedy, you're supposed to make it look easy. So people go, oh yeah, what's the big deal? It's like, yeah, that took a lot of work to get to that point. Right, yeah. And it's true. All these people now do their live shows or whatever. And I'm like, good. Let's see if you're still doing your live podcast tour or your Q&A like four years from now. Let's just see. But make your money. But I'm like, make your money while you can make it because it's fleeting.

You know, if you've been on these reality shows, we see it. It's like some people can make it last. But I even said to Nick, I was like, what happened to all those Bachelor podcasts? There were like 20 and they were all on iHeart. How many are left? They were just bad. I mean, they were bad. And he's like, I don't know how many are left. I think there's like three. I mean, if you want to count him, Caitlin, and then like maybe there's two others that are like hanging on. And I'm just like, that's fine. But I'm just like, yeah, so...

Go make your money while you can make it. When you're exporting the drama, like when what you have is like, if you're Tom Sandoval, what you have is like one good interview after Scandival. Then you don't have anything. But when you're doing what you do, like commentary, you can replicate because you're creating the commentary. You're not exporting the drama that happened to you. So you'll find these big podcasts that are like huge. I mean, when Rachel Kirkconnell went on Call Her Daddy. And that's Matt James's ex-girlfriend.

It's like a cultural moment this year. And he was also The Bachelor. Yeah. It had like 50 to 100,000 people watching live. It was insane. But then like, you know, you tell the story and then that's it. The story's over. And it takes the wind out of the sails. So a lot of The Bachelor... Yeah, she's, you know, she's cute and everything. I, yeah, I kind of, now I think like, save...

your story for yourself. Save it for your book. Like save it, like, you know, but also, you know, of course she wanted a good one and she, it was therapeutic, whatever. But yeah, like where is she now? Well, she's super talented as a designer and in fashion. So like she's collaborating. Rachel is? Yeah. Designs her own swim line. So like it's not, she's not a podcaster, but she's got like a thing and was one of the last people to get a big audience from the show. And so you don't get that if you have 40,000 Instagram followers.

You don't get those collab deals that she gets because she was in the last... Rachel, Matt James' girlfriend is a

bikini designer? She's designed some of her own bikinis and does different fashion collaborations. Oh, good for her because I thought, I just thought she decided to be the girl that's like constantly eating with him. I like didn't know that she had any house going and I was like, how is this girl staying so thin? Like she has to constantly eat like fried food with him. She went through a crazy experience and it definitely changed I think who she is. I just came across on TikTok like him like barking at her about being

making the, putting the ketchup in the ranch or whatever. And people like use that as a sound and they're just like, I'm forever triggered by Matt James. And I'm like, to me, I think he's done. Well, I don't know. Yeah. With those, you don't know what's serious and what's not. Cause it's like, is this some sort of like Andy Warhol? Like, you don't know what it is. And, um,

and yeah he's they're just so lucky that they were on the show when you could get a million followers that the right the post Hannah Brown Tyler Cameron world you don't get that now so it's like your opinion like sure like he not they knock it out like he does good with his social media with his like foodie stuff but like

So do a million people that don't have a following. Yeah. It's like, so you get this audience and then you try not to lose it because once you're done, like once you go through the breakup, audiences go, all right, unfollow. We're done following that story. Like what can you bring to the table then? So like it's good when you can parlay it and keep it going. Do you think like the younger people now know like maybe don't go on The Bachelor? Like it's not...

a good thing to go on? Because I like, I do think it is kind of a weird, like I went on a show called Studs.

And for a long time, I regretted that because I felt it turned off guys that I went on just a one night dating show. I didn't sleep with anybody. It was just a it was a strip show. And it was like two. There were three girls and two guys and you all went on a date. The guys had to guess what you were saying after the producers like help write it. And then if you each pick each other, you supposedly go on another date, whatever. And I was just like, you know, and I always thought that watching Bachelor like is that's going to hurt your dating life.

later on to be taken seriously. And also now you have this first engagement that's not going to be your engagement with someone else. It doesn't count. And like, is this really like, I would definitely not want my kid to, I used to joke and say like, I wanted my kids, my sons to be the bachelor or whatever. Now I really wouldn't.

It's so the show is so dead right now. It doesn't deliver the way it used to be the Cinderella story. And now because like the post pandemic, people got a little, little kind of wild and like you couldn't do like you'd get cancer. Like I hate to say the term canceled, but you would get a lot of feedback and angry people if like you do the wrong thing. So like all of a sudden guys like Matt James are like, no one's hooking up in the fantasy suite. You know, they like, they, they make it, they kind of know to protect themselves and,

And I think the audience, if they just let them be a science experiment and let them go with your craziest desires, it would make for better TV. So now you're watching shows like we talked before, Temptation Island, which is like if every episode was a fantasy suite times four.

because there's four couples that are all dating hot people and then they get to see cameras of what's happening. So you try to not cheat on your partner and then all of a sudden you see your partner selectively grinding with someone and then you're like, well, after that, and then within three episodes, everyone's hooking up and you're like, oh, it's just like crazy.

How does the bachelor compete with that? And I'm like, and your parents are like all watching this? Insane. Well, there was a Spanish version that went viral like a few months ago where the guy watches his like love of his life cheat. And he's like, and I don't even speak Spanish, but I could understand. He was like, por qué?

He's like running around. They're fighting and then trying to kiss. And it went super viral because it was like insane to watch. And I don't know how anyone who works on those shows sleeps at night because it's horrible, but they sign up for it. Like they know what they're getting into. So Netflix now runs Temptation Island. I don't know who used to have it, but Netflix does a good job. And it's like no FCC rules. None of this bullshit Bachelor on ABC Disneyfied stuff. It's like legit insanity.

And you're watching it play out and like it's feeding this inner thing in all of us. It's like a safe space for us to feel these feelings without being the monster that did them. So who are all these girls that will go on it? Are they like all OnlyFans chicks and they're like, why not? Every relationship is like on the fritz. It's like we've dated for a year and a half. No, but like the temptresses. They're just young.

they're young for the most part. And I think. And just have nothing else going on. Yeah. And even though, even though you have all of these experiences where like people get burned, you're still like, Hey, yeah, I don't have much going on. I'll do it. And that's what the, I mean, no one makes money on the bachelor, but the lead, they all go on for free. They get so, they get so exposed. They don't even get. That's why nobody has like good jobs or anything. Like that's why no one really is a cat. Any bro. That's working a normal job. Yeah. He's not going to leave their job for two months from finance or,

That's why they need to open up their wallets and pay someone like a Rachel Kirkconnell to come on, which she wouldn't. But like Maria Georgious was like perfect contender. She's like, look, why do I want to go on the show, sign a two-year contract? You're going to pay me $125,000. After all of the agency and taxes, I'm going to get $50,000 when I could just do a Taco Bell ad read. So for two years, you're under their contract and you can't do any work outside of that. So why go on when you can just make your own money now?

and not have to deal with all of the feedback you get from the show. And like, people have to be honest. It is, I've only experienced like a tiny percentage of what it's like to be snarked on online. Yeah. But like they go through, they go through a very difficult situation that nobody is willing to sort of admit because they get some followers out of it. So like now you take those followers away, which they're not really getting many. I think like this season, no one's got more than 40,000 followers. And it's like, who,

wants to do it so they're gonna have a hard time finding people and if you don't have good cast the show's worth nothing and then these other little like niche shows are just like what do you think will happen you think they will just pay people like 30 grand to do it

I honestly don't. Like each contestant will get. I always think it should be you get paid more just like a Dancing with the Stars the longer you stay. Which would be great, but yeah. So if you make it to the end, then you walk away. And then also your motivation is to really make this guy fall in love with you. Whether that's true or not, who cares? You want the TV to, you know. Yeah. So I mean, that's what I think I would do. I'd be like, look, there's all these unemployed Gen Z people. Why don't you go on the show? See if you can't find love.

And worst case scenario, you minimum make 10 grand. To somebody out of school, that's a big deal. And they got to be on TV. That's what they're going to have to do. They're going to have to pay reality stars more. They just are. And that's just capitalism, right? Like good people don't want to go on. Pay them more and be a little bit looser with the contracts they can sign.

because you yeah no one wants to go like they can't what do you like no one would want to go on that people can make a lot of money doing their own thing and also they're kind of lazy with how they find these people like they it's like they let people submit they need to go find the right people that are like the chaotic people in their own scene doing their fun right yeah do a good job of finding people and you can resurrect the show i mean you get two hours a week for like nine months out of the year six months out of the year where abc has a show to run so like they don't even

ABC doesn't even care if it loses money because it's just like a time slot to fill. So it's not even like the show could succeed even with a smaller audience, but you're seeing, I mean, they just like let a couple of producers go. There was this whole issue with like, they need an original, like unique, fresh take on the show and not like, I'll pay you 20 bucks if you throw someone's like purse in the water. Like audiences are smarter than that. Like they're done with the contrived stuff. Oh, like the little dumb fights. Yeah.

So, so I don't think, I mean, the show will die if they don't do that. They, the only reason they could get people on the show as contestants is the reward of bachelor in paradise, which they took away last year. Bachelor in paradise is coming back this year, but they canceled bachelorette. So it's like, what's going to take off. People love golden bachelor, but then golden bachelorette was a dud. It's so reliant on like an all-star lead grant.

isn't really giving much? I mean, I think it's just hard for guys. I always, I remember when they first started the bachelorette, I was like, I don't think this is going to work. I don't think guys will, will try and care that much to get the girl. And it's true that they did it on the golden bachelorette. They became friends. They become friends on the other stuff. They are like, it's not really in their MO, but girls are,

cutting each other's throats and wanting to be with a guy as pathetic as it is exists and it's more believable. So I would say, yeah, don't bring back The Bachelorette. But that's why Paradise is so good because it's like, oh, you don't want me? I'll go to that guy. And there's more. And that's why more relationships come out of Paradise because there is more friction to create. Now I feel like Paradise has a lot of competition when it

The Temptation, The Love is Blind, the whatever, Hot Island or whatever. People want to watch like the sexy, like love, like. Wait, which one did Ariana host of? Oh, that was I think Love Island. Oh, Love Island. Yeah, those shows, they're all like super sexy. They're shot well. Even like F-Boy Island was like shot really in a really like sexy way. Whereas like Bachelor's like blurring their butt cracks and it's on network TV. It's just like really no longer like we're not really expecting these relationships to work out.

But like sometimes they do until they don't. But boy, their batting average is like 4% workout. Like brutal. All right. What do you think? We're going to end this here.

What do you think about Meghan Markle's new show and what's the prediction for you? I've heard the negative takes and I can just go back off of my wife's feedback. She loved it. My wife doesn't like to watch the drama that fuels me. I listen to podcasts where there's five dudes yelling at each other. She just likes the NPR, highly sensitive person thing. So for her to watch...

a mom cut onions is like that's what she's into and I think that's the market yeah I mean I think there is for all of that just like you know it's like well it's not for you then you know if it's I

I can see why she did it. You know, people are like, why did she do this? And it's like, why doesn't somebody ask her, ever bum that you left the palace? No, she's not bum that she left the palace because I've been saying this a long time. She's a California girl. She got there. And what she said was true. They were staying in a cold place. It wasn't as fun as she thought.

The obligations were sucky and boring. And it was like, so what? And people are so crazy about royal. Yeah, and I'm not, and like, where is this going to go? And then I think she was like, or we can go to Santa Barbara and be the Kardashians and like own our own shit and get away from like, I'm not saying what she experienced before.

wasn't real and difficult and hate and all that. I think it was all true. And she had every right to convince her husband to get the fuck out of England. I mean, how many women have like made their husband leave the hometown to go near their mother? I mean, like that's what she basically did. She went back to LA where her mom lived. Like that is, I mean, how could you, the Royals and their brothers are broken up. And I'm like, but if you think about it and I, this is the first time I've ever said it, like

This has happened in families when... That's why people say, if you have a... Wait. If you have a son, he's your son until he meets his wife. But if you have a daughter, she's your daughter for life. It's... You know, it's... People even say that. Like, you know, the nicer grandma is the mom's mom or who you see more. I mean, my situation wasn't really like that. But growing up, it was my mom's mom that visited more. And, you know, like...

And I have sons, and I hope that it's not like that. I have a great mother-in-law. But it's like, it's the same type of thing. Like, you have kids, and you end up living closer to your mom, or the mom moves in. Like, that is just... Yeah. And I think people are so mad that she, like...

You know, and now we're going to get it now. People are going to be like, and I would also have gotten it like you were so mean. What did she do to you? Your job? I don't care. Like she's still making a lot of money. And just like someone that goes and does a podcast tour that's never been on stage before. And you all go to see it, you know, go make your money when you can make your money. And it's like,

Meghan Markle didn't kick anyone off Netflix. It's an unlimited bandwidth. They hired her because... And it's an easier job to go down the street and do some little cute cooking things than to learn the lines for Grey's Anatomy. Like, it is just an easier, less time-consuming job. And then, of course, now she's doing a new podcast. And this big... Oh, she's going to interview, you know, female founders of, you know...

female bosses, I'm like, oh, we get the Spanx girl. Like, we haven't heard the Spanx girl story. I know the story of the Spanx girl. Oh, then we get the other girl that did, you know, oh, we get the foster sisters, you know, who created their brand. Again, came from money, or we get somebody that came from nothing and started making

putting hot sauce into honey and called it hot honey. I don't know. Like, whatever. But I'm like, I'm listening to it and it's like, and it's an eight episode series. I'm like, that's the podcast? Eight episodes episodes.

as I've like gone and chugged along and done it all the time. I heard her first podcast they had I don't know if this is true but I think the theory was that they would have like a producer ask the questions of the guest and then she would then tape herself asking the questions and they would intersplice it afterwards so like she wasn't even actually interviewing some of the guests. It came out that yeah some of the guests were never like in the same room with her. But like I'm like a

Or even the same Zoom. Get your money, do whatever you want. I look at, like we all have these parasocial relationships. My mom loved Princess Diana.

She just grew up with that. She seemed like a remarkable woman. And Prince Harry is my age. Imagine losing your mom in one way or another because of the paparazzi and that toxic culture. I don't think you outgrow that. And for him, none of us know what it's like to be under that public scrutiny from such an early age where he was begging to go off to school where he could just be himself. I mean, imagine your son. Imagine...

Just that thirst. And then he meets somebody who has no idea about the royal family. He probably loved it. Well, she pretended to have no idea. But again, however the relationship works or doesn't work, I stood in on Suits for the pilot before it moved to Vancouver. They shot it in New York. She was a normal person. Everyone was just trying to remember their lines. But like you said, they're shooting 12, 14 hours a day. They've got to remember six pages of complex legal lines. That was really like a...

Every actor on that show had someone they hired to help them with their lines because it was so aggressive. Who wants that? I mean, I don't... I just think that people were fascinated by her and like a Blake, like a Hilaria, you find out some things that seem to be inauthentic and you turn on her because women are like...

you know, why should she have all these opportunities? I can make a rainbow out of fruit. I can interview a woman on a podcast. I mean, I get the hate too from women that sometimes I think

are like, why Heather? She mispronounces someone's name all the time. Like, why should she be making any money? And if you get to this level where you're under that scrutiny, that's part of, I guess, sadly, like the collateral issues of getting to live your dream. And I always just say, hurt people hurt people. And

I think a lot of snark, I do think snark is mainly female based. Men are brutal. Men will tell each other to go kill himself. A woman will tell you why to kill yourself. Yeah. And like men are tough. Like I listen to sports talk radio. They're brutal. But women, you guys have mastered the art of getting under people's skin with the, with the snark pages and stuff like that. It's just the jealousy. And I don't know what it is. It's like sad. It's why I always say where we're not further along is like,

And I'll probably get a lot of hate for even generalizing right there. Right, but who cares? But, I mean, I say, yeah, you can get away with just doing eight episodes. Good for you. They're going to give you $100 million to do eight episodes. Fucking good for you. So you can spend more time with your kids. You don't need to work as hard as I do. Then don't. We have an American that stole the prince. I'm surprised they're not more...

But maybe that's just like the pendulum swinging back. Well, I think nobody really cares about him now either. Like it was... But like William, but his older brother was like the bootlicker who stuck by the family secrets. Like I see Prince Harry and sure he's going to make some... He's an old millennial. Like my generation, we kind of like were the first onto Facebook and had to navigate this weird... It was just different. And he's like one of the most famous people from that generation, these old millennials who like...

Dude tried his best. He lost his mom. You see the photos of him with his mom. And I just see the inner child. Even as a grown adult, I see that inner child who was robbed of just... Well, I mean, I feel like she... We brought her... I was so excited about the wedding. I feel like everyone loved it. They loved that she was biracial. They loved that she was American.

I thought it was a beautiful love story. Even that she was divorced, it was like she wasn't this perfect pedigree. It seemed like we lifted her up and then whether it was smear campaigns or whatever that she's mean to the staff and she made the alterations lady cry, whatever those stories are, got out there and

you know, to the point where they didn't feel safe, their story, and they came over here, and now they're here, and, like, she's fine, but she's kind of boring. Like, she's just kind of boring. Like, probably podcasting and talking and being yourself is probably not what she should be doing. Which, by the way, is... Acting is probably what she'd be doing, but it's too much work. My wife says this. My wife's a boring person, too. Like, she'll tell you that. She wants to do a puzzle.

And that's what I love because I'm like an extrovert and I'm loud. We balance each other. Right. And she's but like she doesn't want to be in the big crowds. And yeah, it doesn't always fit. It might not fit into entertainment the way that some people will. But we have like you got this this Bravo audience, this audience that's like, but wait, Meghan Markle is not throwing the drink at, you know, you know what I realized? I predicted that she would have a talk show, which essentially a podcast is a talk show.

I predicted she would have a talk show years ago. I go, once she gets tired of being the princess, she's not going to go back to doing the hard 12-hour days of acting. Because acting is a lot of work. And that's why a lot of people kind of give it up when they can. Whether you're, you know, running the Honest Company or Goop or whatever. Like...

Jack Shepard, he was like, all I wanted to do was talk to people. Yeah, when you don't have to do it and wait in a trailer and call time at 5 a.m. and all that stuff, it's not as great as people think once you've experienced for a while. If you can be famous and make money doing something that's less effort and more yourself, yeah, people want to do it. So everyone goes, oh, I'll do this. I could have a talk show, da-da-da. But I just think, you know, I also think women have heard...

entrepreneurial women talk a lot and it is not something to get you up and going when you're making your Etsy bracelets. It just isn't. It's like,

It's not really. So who's listening to it? But imagine as a producer looking at Meghan Markle going, what does it cost? 20 grand per episode? You know, what does it cost? And then they can live on Netflix internationally. Like they're going to make a killing off of it. You mean the cooking show? Absolutely. They're just going to make a killing. It's just content. And they said like the $300 pan had sold out.

So it's like people saying it's, oh, it's unrealistic that she's wearing it. Okay. But there's enough people that find it realistic or want it. They want to expose like, oh, she got those cookies. They found like the wrappings of cookies that were maybe from Whole Foods that she didn't actually make.

yeah, that's going to exist. There's going to be some. And that's kind of the fun of it. Now everyone's talking about it so people will watch it even. When you watch the Today Show, the meatloaf is already made. They're not pulling it out of the oven here on set. It's not all real. Dave, thank you so much for coming. Please, thank you. Please tell everybody where they can follow you and get more

Of you in their lives. Twice a day, the Rush Hour with Dave Neal. Every morning, every afternoon, I do bite-sized 25-minute episodes for your Rush Hour drive. And my goal is to end up having almost like an Andy Cohen Watch What Happens Live sort of like radio show where people can just come on and have these types of conversations. But I try to keep it bite-sized and just be there. I always say I'm like if you're waiting for the bus, I just want to be the guy who's like,

like, hey, did you hear about the wombat? Weird story, huh? So like, it's just, you know, that's all it is. Oh, we didn't talk about the wombat girl. So there was this girl, an American influencer in Australia, and she had her boyfriend or whoever filmed her

They saw a little mom and a baby wombat, and she picked up the – I saw the video, and he's laughing, and then the woman – the mom wombat is coming after her, and then she does put the wombat down. But they post the video, and of course everyone's like, you shouldn't do that. Now the mother wombat might reject the baby, like –

And then she said, I got the wombat because I thought I was going to be hit by a car, which is not true. She doubled down on the victimhood after the internet backlash, like standard story. She was going to get deported, but she fled the country before she got deported.

Back to America? Somewhere. She was on a student visa or whatever. She's kind of like a trophy hunter. Couldn't get a job at PETA because she eats meat. They were like, you can't work here. She's finding herself, but now she's going to enter that pro-victimhood pipeline where she's been martyred because the internet didn't like her. Hey, tough time to be an American abroad. Don't be grabbing animals and filming it. The clout can go too far. Do your TikTok dance in front of it.

Do whatever you want to do, but just leave it. I always say it's like Yellowstone. Don't touch the bison. I mean, the only thing you could say in that is, I'm a total fucking idiot. I had no idea. I can't believe I did this. And she a little bit did, but then tried to say, oh, I thought it was going to get hit.

Just say, I got excited and I did the wrong thing and we filmed it. Turn your DMs off for two weeks and come back. Say you're sorry and then come back with a cute makeup tutorial. Yeah, donate to the shelter. Just do something. Rewrite the karma and you'll be good. Calm down. Yeah, just go away and say, I'm sorry. If I have a hot take, I don't check my comments after. I've learned my lesson. Just let it be. Let it be. The internet's very loud and you can just turn the volume down on it.

Exactly. Well, thank you so much for coming out here. Love it. Great convo. Thank you for all the juice that you brought. We never really covered that Clayton story, so that was really great. By the way, this is just my audition to get us on Below Deck. Can we bring our families on Below Deck? Oh, we could talk about that. Yes, I love it. Thank you. Bye. Bye.