Real Housewife of NYC Carole Radziwill on Bravo, The Kennedys and Sex!
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Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales, her real life, Mr. Segment, serial data, and serial sex. So be addicted and addicted to the real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Juicy Scoop.

- Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop from New York City. I am with return guest Juicy Scooper, author, classy lady, sexy lady, Carol Radzowel is here.

I think this is the fourth time maybe you've done it because we did it one time here in New York and another time you were in LA. We did it twice in LA. Yeah, and I brought the Barbie. Yeah, you brought the Barbie. Yes. And you were like really looking at it because I like made her eyebrows like better and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, how my eyebrows stay. You look amazing. This is your color. Oh, it is. Because of your green eyes. Do you wear a lot of green?

No, no. My eyes have recently turned green in the last five years. I swear to you. I promise you.

They have. My eyes were hazel. I'll show you on my driver's license. Hazel brown. And just in the last five years, they just started getting lighter and lighter. So now they're green. And I'm thinking maybe I have a liver disease. I don't know. Do you know that my – I feel like my eyes have gotten a little more lighter green. Because we're always just like shit brown. And I'm like, oh, maybe it's the eye makeup I'm using is like bringing it out or something. Do you think that's something to do with like –

Drinking? No, I don't drink. I was going to say menopause. Maybe. I don't know. I feel like as I went through menopause, my eyes got lighter and lighter. They're like bright green now. Well, they look good, so who cares?

No one talks about the positives of menopause. No, I know. Just straight up not having your period anymore is the greatest thing. Is the greatest thing. You know, my son is 22. Drake is here. So get ready. No one has Drake's life perspective because the amount of times that like I would be in like a compromising position, like running around with the kids and not be prepared for my period or for it to be whatever. And you remember when we were in Atlantis? Oh, jeez.

That was bad. No, there's so many good things. I think I'm not going to preach about HRT hormone replacement therapy because everyone has an opinion on it. But if you really do your research, women who don't get on that, you know, kind of early on really suffer. Oh, really suffer. Are you?

I actually did not. I feel like I had it pretty great. No, but you need hormones. Estrogen is a lubricant for your brain, for your bones, for your heart. So like, you know, you don't want to get osteoporosis. You don't have cardiac events. It's like, it's not just meant to go away. What is it? Is it a shot? No, it's just a cream, a topical cream. All over your body? No. Oh. No, just a dab, like on your abdomen. Oh, okay. I don't know.

The amount of medical literature on menopause is this much. And billions and billions of women go through it. I still don't understand. I feel like I never had a baby and I feel like I know more about childbirth than I do about menopause. Like, sort of our sexual health stops at 42 or 45, right? I guess when you get deemed unfuckable. Do you remember that Amy Schumer sketch?

No. Oh, my God. She had a sketch show and it was like Julia Louis-Dreyfus and like Tina Fey. And she comes across these women having like lunch. And she's like, what do you guys do? Oh, my God. This is amazing. Like, you're all my favorite like female comedians. What are you doing here? And they're like, oh, we're celebrating like Julia Louis-Dreyfus's last. It's her last day to be considered fuckable. And we're going to like. And they like said.

send her in like a canoe and they send her off and it was like oh they

Oh, this is the last day. I feel like... It was so funny. We're talking about that. Okay, so... I can't talk about sex in front of your son. No, it's fine. I feel like it gets better. It's fine. He just has to put up with it. Sorry. It's part of life. That's why I'm saying no one has his life perspective. There's not another 22-year-old man who has a female stand-up comedy mother that talks about sex with his dad on stage while he films it. I'm like, can you cut the clip where...

- That's so good. - But I wanted to, speaking of which, when we saw you in Real Housewives of Roney, you are a widow and you wrote a book and what remains. - The Widow's Guide to-- - Well you did What Remains and Widow's Guide-- - The Widow's Guide to Sex and Dating. - Yes, and we have so many questions for you, but since we were talking about the dating, so we saw you have a younger boyfriend, the chef. - Yeah, the chef. - The chef.

You're still friends? Are you friends? Where is that situation? Yeah. I mean, Adam, I've known him 10 years now. I feel like he's like family. You know how they kind of old boyfriends morph into like family? No, because I don't have any old boyfriends. I do. My husband is my family. I think we morphed into brother and sister. Well, yeah, it's the same. It's the same. After 10 years, it's like you're a brother and sister. He's like the annoying little brother. Right. Yeah.

Although, like in a lot of ways, he's more mature than me. So you were saying that you just saw a preview of Bridget Jones' diary. Oh, yes. About a boy, it's called. It's the fourth installment of the Bridget Jones diary saga. And it's Renee again, Renee Zellweger. She's kind of awesome. I mean, she's just really, yeah.

I love her. - She's great. And she's now a widow.

because in the last installment, Mark Darcy dies in a terrorist bombing in Sudan, I think, or some terrible dark ending to him. And she's Bridget Jones, so she's still like, she can't quite get it together. And it's so, and Hugh Grant is in it. And she, in the narrative in this, she has a younger boyfriend played by this really high,

hot guy called Leo Woodall. I mean, he's very talented. He's very good because I've seen him in other movies. So how much younger? In the movie, is there characters? Well, it's not like The Graduate where Dustin Hoffman was 28 and Anne Bancroft was like 32. Oh, when they were playing the 20s. No, but I'm saying their characters. Their characters. He was, I think, 20. I think he said he was 28. Okay. And she's like 50. Yeah.

Well, yeah, but then he said, well, how old? And she was like, oh. And then he was like, well, what are you, 35? And she goes, yeah, I'll go with that. You know, but she's 50. She's 50. Yeah. And, you know, I don't know. People, I was asked about it afterward because I've had several relationships, like, you know, kind of long relationships with younger men, sort of in their 30s. And I think there is a...

There's an acceptance of it now that just didn't exist even 10 years ago. Totally. I feel like people are more accepting of women in their 50s dating men in their 30s than men in their 50s dating women in their 30s or 20s. I feel like there's a little bit of an ick factor about that.

Well, like the Bill, what's his name? Bill Belichick. Exactly. So he's 72 and she's 23 or 4. Yeah. And I saw this one guy ask Tom Brady, like, well, would you ever help your former coach's new girlfriend rent a car? Because she can't rent a car because you're 25.

That is so funny. And he just, it like registered for like, took like a second, just like it took me and you a second. And he's like, oh my God, that is so funny. No, they're like, yeah. I mean, you,

I'm like, listen, you see it a lot now. It's like, if it's 20 years is one thing, whatever. 50 years is another. At that point, though, who cares? Like, what do you really think? I mean, I'm just going to say that I think there's a growing ick factor with much older men dating much younger women because there's a power differential there anyway. Right. Even if you're a man and a woman similar in age, the men is perceived to have more power, even if they're both 35, right? So at...

55 and 25, you know, there's just a nick factor that doesn't, I think, now exist as much with older women dating younger men. Am I right? But I have several friends that are in their 50s that are dating and

You know, and they're attractive and they're put together and everything. But, I mean, not lying about their age on the app or anything. And they're getting plenty of dates. No, I mean. And from guys their age and from a little bit younger. But, like, no. No, the younger ones are more aggressive. I think sometimes the guys are like. The younger ones are more aggressive. Yeah. Much more aggressive. Yeah, where sometimes it's kind of the perfect thing where a guy is like.

I'm not, if I'm married, if I'm whatever, if I'm 38 and I'm dating a girl who's 37, there's going to be that pressure. Like, where is this going? Are we getting married? Are we having kids? And if the 38 year old guy is dating a woman who's 48 or 50,

He knows babies aren't a part of it. That's why there's this... And you can have a really great authentic relationship and you both show up and there's no game playing. It's very clear. It's very clear. Like in all my relationships, it's very clear what I wanted and what he wanted.

And I'll tell you, like, I mean, with Adam was, you know, we were together almost five years. These aren't like, you know, flings. Right. My last boyfriend was a year and a half. So these are like relationships like any relationship you would have at any age. So, but it's just more on it. I don't know. Well, you're saying how in the Bridget Jones diary, like, you know,

- Of course, you know, it makes sense when you're writing a fictional story for at a certain point the heroine to be single again and it's easier if he dies. And so before Sex and the City came back,

I became friendly with Chris Noth. Yeah. And I was so obsessed with Sex and City. Yeah, of course. Like, you know, obsessed. And I was always, you know, with my writer friends trying to come up what, you know, either Sex and City 3, the movie, would be or if the series ever come back, what it would be. Yeah. So I was at his, like, holiday party. Yeah. And I just go...

Well, Big has to die. I go, Big has to die because Kara has to get out there and date again. And he's like, and then I realized, I can't believe I just said that. He doesn't want his character to die. Right, because then he's out of work. So then the show came back and he did die.

I guess it's easier to have them die than to have divorce because there's a lot of messiness with divorce. Although divorce, it could be funny because you kind of run into him with the young girl, typical young girlfriend. That's funny. But no, in Bridget, he died and she had this lovely relationship with Leo Woodall who's gorgeous and shirtless a lot and you're just like, oh my God. Yeah.

And then she ends up breaking up with him because that's always usually what happens. But then Hugh Grant is in it. Hugh Grant is, like, I could watch that guy read the telephone books.

book. Like he's so good and every time he shows up on screen you're just like he's a scene stealer. Like you're almost like you wanted to be with Hugh and not Leo right even though Leo's like hot and whatever. Hugh Grant is just he's so good in it. I think there should be another one. I'm going to put it out there. There should be another one where

It's like Harry Met Sally. She ends up with Hugh Grant because they're so funny together. They love each other. They're like family. They just need to end up together. Put it out there and make it happen. I always give all the ideas and I'm like, make it happen because I would like to watch that. Yeah, and it's very nostalgic because it's really like when you go see this movie, it's like being back in the 90s almost again. It's like everything about it, even the way it's shot and stuff, it's like...

It's like calm. It's nice. It's like old-fashioned. So speaking of what's not old-fashioned is I saw Baby Girl with Nicole Kidman. Yeah. Now, when I first saw people doing little reviews and talking about it on TikTok, they had seen it in the movie theater, and they're like, oh, my God, like people were laughing. They were dying. And Nicole Kidman is a CEO of a big company that has robots coming about.

But it's modern day. And she's in New York. And her husband is Antonio Banderas, I think. And he's also really good looking. They have two teenage daughters. And he is a director of plays in the city.

But he's not good at sex. I just watched the beginning of it. I'm going to tell you right now, I'm spoiling it for you because there's some things that really bother me. So right off the bat, they're like boning all the time, which if you've been with someone for at least 17 years because of the girl's ages, that's pretty great. Like you're still boning all the time. So they're boning all the time. And then the minute they finish boning, she like runs away.

To her bedroom and opens up a computer and like masturbates to finish off to some like porn. So you're like, okay, I guess she isn't happy. So anyway, then the next day... Why didn't she do it with him though? That's what I didn't understand. Like, just do it with his partner. Well, the whole thing is that I'm like, so if you've had 17 years... She then reveals, I've never had an orgasm with you after she starts the affair with the intern. I only watched the first 10 minutes. I'm saying if you had 17 years of not...

Having an orgasm, but then being able to have it on your own later. Like bring it into the bedroom. So at 57 or whatever she's supposed to be playing. And she looks amazing. Her body's amazing.

she decides this 25 year old intern is the one that she's going to cheat on. They don't make it that she's ever cheated 17 years prior. So this is the person that you're like this employee. So right off the bat, he's like aggressive, like kind of aggressive with her and stuff, like tries to kiss her in a meeting. And,

And so, but I thought, I'm intrigued because I love any movie that has New York in a background. - Okay. - I literally like, - I love that about you. - Want there to be for me to search up New York affairs and murders, like the psychological thrillers, sexy, those are my favorite kind of movies.

unfaithful, fatal attraction, a perfect murder. Like those all are just, and wealth. People have to be wealthy in New York for me to enjoy the movie. So they, all of a sudden, I'm watching the whole movie and it seems like this affair is going on for a year. But the Christmas trees are still up. So I'm like, wait a minute. I'm watching it with Peter. I'm like, wait a minute. This whole thing is like within two weeks of like this.

them finding time to go to hotel rooms and work late during the holidays, which is kind of a hard time to like work late. You have all these Christmas parties. And family. Yeah. But they start boning and doing all this stuff. And of course, you've seen the funny parts where he...

she walks into, you know, they were getting, everyone's getting drinks after and the interns are over there and she's like with her CEO people. And then someone brings over a big thing of milk and it's like a chic bar. And he's like, did somebody order that? And he, she looks over and he's like, and she goes, and then she guzzles like this. And it's not skim. It's not 2%. It's not 1%. It's full, whole milk. She's having issues. Like,

So she brings the whole thing and then she's like... And I guess the milk was supposed to be like on her face. Like, calm on your face, I guess. Or just that he can get her to do what he wants. Yeah. Like, because... You know, you always hear, I guess, about men going to like a dominatrix. Because they're this big CEO, they want this woman to be like, hey, you piece of shit, get on your knees. And they like love it. So I guess that was kind of the switcheroo of the story. But then...

What killed me the most is I'm watching it with my husband, Peter. You're going to like this part, right? So they find out, you know, it gets revealed that she, I don't want to tell every bit, but it gets revealed and he goes, get out, the husband, Andrew, get out. But it's like, well, she gets out of her beautiful penthouse and goes to like the two-story Connecticut or whatever. Oh, their house. But it's like, you know, how dare you kick me out to like our $5 million Connecticut house or whatever it is, $50 million house.

And so she's there alone. And it's her money, by the way, right? He's a theater director. But she's in her house and she's, you know, feeling sad because she doesn't know what's going on through her marriage. And then she looks out the window and the intern is swimming in the pool. And I'm like, okay, wait, it's still Christmas time.

We're on the East Coast. It's freezing. It's freezing. Is it snow on the ground? So I'm like, if Peter wasn't going to divorce me, my husband, for screwing a 25-year-old male intern, it would be because I let that male intern turn on the fucking heater of the pool. Yeah.

And run up the... It must have started at like 20 degrees. I mean, it would have taken like 24 hours to get to like a solid like 90 degrees. And then she jumps in and, you know, so then they have a fun swimming time. Yeah. And then, you know... So he's like a fatal attraction? He's the... Oh, they have that scene, which I love because like when I was working on writing movies with the Waynes brothers, with like white chicks, we watched all the movies...

like, you know, Tootsie and something like it hot. Any movie where there's men having to pretend to be women. And I remember it was like a, it was like a film class because he was like, okay, now we need a scene where they almost get caught. And I was like, oh, there is like a formula to this. And so being that this is a formula, I think to Unfaithful, there is a moment when, or Fatal Attraction, where, um,

She comes into the house and she hears his voice and the kids are laughing and everything. And it reminds me of In Fatal Attraction when he comes home. And she's pretending to be the real estate. No, she's pretending to be interested in buying the house. Yeah. And they're like, oh, let me give you my number. And he's like. So he shows up because he's like, you left your computer.

what are you doing here? What are you doing out here? And then they have a party and she has this beautiful assistant, this young black girl who's like her main right-hand lady. And she invites her to the daughter's party, still Christmas time. And it's like her daughter's sweet 16th. And she brings him, the intern. So she goes to him and she's like, what are you doing? She's like, oh,

You're mine. And then the girl walks in and she's like, oh, we need more cupcakes. Like, what the fuck is going on? So then, now this is where I like to rewrite a movie. Okay. So I am, like, perked up. I'm like, now this gets good. Right. Now. Was the sex hot in it or was it, like, always? The sex was good, but it was a lot of her, like, her orgasms were like an animal. Like, we have a lot of coyotes where we live and sometimes when I get them all night, like, coyotes are like.

It's so loud. And I'm like imagining just like a coyote orgy, like literally in my backyard. So it was like...

Like, it was just a lot of that. I hate sex scenes in movies. So, and they're, like, at... Hand to the moon or the fireplace. And also, they're at, like, not a nice hotel room, and he has her, like, crawling on the knees, and I'm like, you're telling me this pristine, perfectly dressed CEO is willing to crawl on the disgusting, like, hotel carpet? I'm like, I would, but will she? No. Right. So, anyway, so then he... So, I'm like, oh, my God, this is getting good now, because...

Her assistant now knows there's something going on, but the assistant's with him. And, of course, she could, like, lose everything. So I'm like, this is juicy. What happens is, you know, the girl, the assistant tells her, spoiler, tells her, like, I know what's going on. All I want you to do is support women, you know, as a result of what's happening. Can you give me a promotion? Okay, we're working hard for you. I don't even like your Australian accent. Did they take that?

Yes. She goes, I just don't think you're, like, supporting women enough. And, like, so I guess she gives her a promotion. And then all of a sudden, he's gone. And this other CEO comes in and he's like, um...

Kind of hinting that he knows and he's like I think you and I should talk about you know at my at my house or something like it's You have to go to HR at some no nobody knows nobody knows but he can like this other like executive mail It's like I know that you were fucking the intern and he kind of it basically threatening her or or maybe he's like you better fuck me or I'm gonna tell or something and she has a really good scene there where she's like

like stands up for herself and is like, fuck you, I don't care what you say, like I'm gonna be fine. And he goes off to Japan to like work for Kawasaki or whatever. Now I was like, the much better, the much better situation, if I was rewriting this, which is the same thing happened, did you watch the Debbie Moore substance? Yeah. Like,

I could have thought of the better, the last one third of the movie sucked. And I'm like, I want to rewrite the ending. But this one, the same thing. I was like, it would have been so much juicier if we found out that the intern and the assistant

this out. Yeah. Like pre-planned it, knew it, got, she helped get him the job. He never even went to college because he had like, he looked kind of rough. Yeah. Like why would he target her? Yeah, like why was he targeting her so hardcore and it was like, there could have been something so juicy there. No. So then, the husband forgives her. Oh no. And he finally, you know, figures it right and she has an orgasm. Like she didn't lose anything. Like,

Besides her heating bill for the month of December at the Connecticut House, she lost nothing. I'm okay with her not losing anything. You don't have any men CEOs, not interns, and don't lose anything. So we're okay with her not losing anything. But the husband, the daughters forgave her. Like, everything is just fine. The big flaw also is, like you said, 17 years of marriage. They're fucking all the time. And, like, she doesn't think to, like...

like masturbate or bring that to her or like into the like why it would have made more sense if it was like some reference to that she was a serial cheater

And that's why she's so brazen going for this guy that's hitting on her. But it's literally like she's led like an exemplatory like sexy marriage. Like she's total prude in a marriage for 20 years and then she's like crawling and licking like his shoes. That doesn't make sense. That leap of faith is like really bizarre. But I actually kind of liked watching the movie. I think older women with younger guys, are they doing? I mean, I feel like it's...

The reverse. Of what? I feel like they're not subservient to younger men. I think that they're more confident. Well, that's what I think. I mean, that's why I think that they... They're just like sort of younger men seem more subservient. Not subservient is not a great word, but you know what I mean. Like, they're just more interested in pleasing. It's like, you know how they always do like different TV shows and things and they're like, it's a remake, but it's with a Latino fan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or whatever. That's why I feel like it's a remake, but instead of an old fart and a young girl, it's going to be an old lady and a young guy. Yeah, yeah. And like, we're just going to, that's going to be the DI. Yeah, like he's the, he's the. What do you call it? The diversity thing. It's going to be that, it was that. Yeah.

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This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by Booking.com, Booking.yeah. Every time I use Booking.com to find a place to stay in the U.S., I know they'll have exactly what I'm looking for. They have a huge variety of options from hotels to vacation rentals, and I'm always able to find something that fits my specific needs.

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Booking. Yeah. OK, I also want to talk about talking about more TV. But first, you are tell me about that. You are about the play that you're an investor in. And there's a cool connection. Oh, yeah. Star. So tell us about that. I'm thinking about actually turning my my memoir, What Remains, into a play.

Absolutely should. I know I just thought it's so chic and elegant and there's a lot of television and a lot of limited series and they're just all sort of like cringy. Well, Ryan Murphy is doing one. Well, yes. And he did The Swans. And I also want people, I don't know how much you'll be in it, but I'm sure your character has to be in it. And I'm thinking, who should we get to play you? I don't think so.

Who should we get to play you in the Ryan Murphy? You mean the American Love Story one? Yes. With John and Carolyn? Of course you're going to be part of it. If he's telling a real story. If he's telling... No, I don't think I have to be because I... Well, whatever. Stayed out of the tabloid story. I would like to know... So if he's just doing the tabloid version, I don't have to be in it. If he's doing the real story, then there's no way I couldn't be in it, but I don't want to be in it. From what he did with the Menendez brothers, because I know a lot about it, he really kind of takes...

A little from everything. From tabloids, from people's theories, from several different books. And then also because he can create a scene and a conversation that nobody knows would be true or not because you're taking the characters. I think everyone thinks everything is true. Right. Which is the unfortunate part when 90% is just from tabloids that are not true. Right. But whatever. It's entertainment. Yeah. No, not...

Like, I'm not wishing to be part of it. - I'm just, okay, so I just wanna ask the Juicy Scoopers to suggest some actresses that could play you. - Oh, okay, okay. - 'Cause at that time, what, you were like in your 30s. - Yeah, 30s. - So an actress in her 30s. - Yeah. - She doesn't have to have green eyes 'cause they weren't green. - They weren't green. They were brown. - An upper class New York brunette who's thin with a nice ass. That's what we need.

I mean, I was a working journalist at ABC, hustling. Yeah, but still. I was not like, yes. But you had style. You had good style is what I'm saying. No, I mean. You had like the simple good. You always had the good style. Just like she did. No, I didn't really have style because I remember Carolyn, like we used to go through my closet. She's like, honey, you got to get rid of this. Oh, really? You got to get rid of this.

Did you love it? I love it when somebody does that. Of course. And she had a great closet and she gave me all of her, you know, all of her Prada suits and stuff that she thought she would need to wear, like that she never wore, you know. Oh, so then you had them for like work and stuff. I had them for work because I was like a little Miss Nerd going to ABC News. Yeah. She was fabulous and not going to corporate America, you know, she left.

Well, if you did yours as a play... What Remains, yeah. Yeah. I think I would, to be honest, and I'm just sort of brainstorming it now, but I think I would focus on the two girls. I think I would focus on me and Carolyn. And that would be more the focus because...

I just think it was interesting, very complex. I mean, obviously, my husband and her husband are part of that whole story. Because to remind people, they're first cousins. Yes. Jackie and your husband's... Lee were sisters. Were sisters. And they were the only two in the family. So they were very close. And there's been a lot of books and stuff written about their relationship. Because it's something...

juicy and things that people want to speculate about because one was the first lady, the other one had this great life in New York and then there's Onassis that came in and there's stories that Lee dated Onassis and then that ended. But then there's stories that basically

Like Lee was like, you should go form Jackie because you need someone this wealthy because the Secret Service has stopped and the Kennedys are being cheap and you have these two kids. And no, but I'm just saying, these are the things that I've read. I don't know anything, but these are the stories that are kind of out there. So it's like, yes, I think I want to know why.

what it was like for the two of you to marry into this. Yeah, it's just a much more, um, it's like a deeper story of the two girls. And she grew up much like I did in upstate New York, not wealthy, but you know, she was, uh,

single mom you know with three kids you mean her mom was her mom was a single mom i didn't know that i know because the story in the tabloids is more like grew up in greenwich and it all seems fabulous but she didn't uh her mom didn't remarry until carolyn was like in her teens so that was and then she married a doctor and that was you know then they moved to greenwich but no she grew up in yonkers and um

you know, much probably like I did. So it's sort of like this sort of Cinderella story. We both go to the, you know, make our way to New York City and kind of reinvent ourselves, her in fashion. And she, you know,

moved up the ranks in fashion. I moved up the ranks in journalism. I don't know. It just feels like... And also that era, there's a lot of nostalgia. The 90s, yeah. The Gen Zers are like, oh, what was it like to be in college without Instagram? They love... With my book, You'll Never Blue Ball in This Town Again, I always think it's great to have a book because I always tell people when they're like, should I write a book? I write a book because you never know

it's not like it has to turn it unlike tv that you pitch it nobody wants it it's dead or the pilot is dead it's dead a book is as a piece of real estate that can be turned into something yeah later on i feel like my book just because you talked about it i feel like my book which is about a girl in l.a like trying to make it all these funny dating stories yeah and all this stuff but i was an old virgin and i really didn't want to be an old virgin but i was and so

But it's like, and I'm almost like a little bit of a Forrest Gump. Like I live down the street from OJ. I made out with Kato. Like there's all these like stories from the 90s that are like a little bit. People are obsessed with the 90s now. They're obsessed with the 90s because there's like answer machines. Like you had to wait. You could play the rules, which is the book about like making a guy kind of wait and wonder what you're up to.

You met your husband at work a lot. Like, you know, now it's like forbidden. Yes, you can't meet them at work. You can't meet them at work. Right. No, it was everyone's nostalgic for it. And my story, I think, takes place really in the 70s when we grew up, and that's such a great era, and the 90s when I got to ABC News and moved to the city, Carol and I moved to the city around the same time we both met.

- What was your-- - Yeah, I met Anthony, she met John in the early 90s. - Who met the husbands first? - I met Anthony probably in 1990, yes. And then she, Carolyn and John started dating in '91 or something, but then they broke up for a while.

He went back to an old girlfriend. He was dating Daryl Hannah for a long time. So he dated her. He went back to her for a couple years, and then they got back together in 94. And then were you happy? Yes, because you had stayed friends with her. Oh, okay, that's cool. I kept the connection. Because she was so fun. So that every time he'd pop over in his beret...

I always imagine him on a bike in a beret but with no shirt. I know that doesn't make sense, but it's like the way he remembers it. - No, he was never like that. - But when he came over, shirtless in a beret. - He was never shirtless in a beret.

So then would you drop that like, oh, I just had lunch? No. Or he would ask. He would ask. I would never talk about it. And what would you say? And Carolyn was very, very, you know, she's not, I mean, listen, she was not chasing any boys. Right. Even John.

So she wasn't like, she wasn't trying to stay in touch with me to get information. In fact, she kind of like was like careful about like any interaction we had. Like she didn't want it to seem even like she was like trying to like get information. She was...

She was the ultimate cool girl. Like even as John Kennedy, she did not care. She's like, she's Carolyn Bissett. She really knew, more than any woman I've ever met, even before or since, like she really knew

She knew her worth in that way, in a way that was extraordinary for the 90s, going back to the 90s where women were just a little bit more like, you know, unsure where they were in the workplace, unsure where they were in the dating scene. You know, I mean, date rape had not been, you know, that was not even mentioned. It wasn't even a term. So she was, yeah, she was great. And then when they got back together after his mother passed away, then it was...

It was like they were getting married. And then you were, you actually had the princess title, right? Explain how you became a princess.

My husband, Anthony's family were like the aristocracy in Poland for hundreds of years. And that was, was that Lee's first husband? Yeah, no, Lee got married actually when she was young, like 19 or 20 to Michael Canfield. And, but they, they were only married like two years and then they got, it was an old, and then she married Anthony's dad, Stanislaus.

Okay. And then did they stay married the whole time? They were married. They ended up divorcing like when Lee was in the 70s. Anthony was probably like 16.

So they were married for a long time. So when we see Lee's character, who Callista is playing, which we'll get back to the play. Oh, yeah, the play, right. But in The Swans, which I loved. Okay. But you, it was interesting because you knew Lee and you guys stayed very close after her son. And, you know, which is kind of really wonderful because sometimes when you hear, you know, about,

a young death of a son or whatever, sometimes the mother-in-law doesn't keep that relationship with the spouse or whatever, especially when there's not kids or something. - Yeah, we had nothing linking us. - So I think that's really cool that you guys stayed connected. - It was 20 years

she lived 20 years longer and like there were times when we would not see each other it was hard in the beginning yeah and she was living in Paris so but I went to Paris to visit her a few times and then and then as the time wore on it just got easier and easier to be with her and it was actually towards the end what ended up being the end of her life the last like 10 years or five years she was great I mean we would we would have dinner at her apartment just the two of us and like

She was really extraordinary. And I think people don't even understand the depth of what she really was because she's always couched next to Jackie. But she was so intelligent, so curious about everything. Like she could talk politics, culture,

And then the one thing about her, one of the things I admired about her was she wasn't nostalgic at all about this life she had led like in the 60s. And she could have been. I mean, people lead less glamorous, less interesting lives that cling to those stories. You know, you hear them over and over again. Oh, God, is that going to be me? No. When I was on Rope.

no we'll get we'll get to roni but you didn't even talk about roni so yeah but she wasn't nostalgic and it was just refreshing and she was she was fucking fantastic she was fantastic and yeah she's i didn't see the swans so i think but i did have the opportunity to meet calista yeah um because i invested in this play and now i'm i'm getting sort of trying to get into theater a little bit and i love theater i think it's

What's the name of the play? It's an old Sam Shepard play, wrote in 19, I think, 77, called The Curse of the Starving Class. It's very relevant today. It's starring Calista Flock, Archie plays the mother, and Christian Bale.

another 90s guy. He's fantastic. He plays the husband. And then sort of these two newcomers, Cooper Hoffman is the son. He's kind of the main character. And he's Philip Seymour Hoffman's son. Oh, wow. Unbelievable. He's like 19 years old. Wow. He's so good. And then Stella Marcus is a young girl. She plays the daughter. And it's such a brilliant cast. And this is off-Broadway. It's a not-for-profit theater. It's one of the

It's just been extraordinary to be able to see from table read to studio rehearsal to tech rehearsal, which is what we're in now, tech rehearsal and previews, and it opens in a couple of weeks.

The work that these actors do, like I saw it from table readers only like a month ago. Now they're totally off book. They're in previews. So anyone can go see the play now in previews. And they're perfect. I mean, it's extraordinary, like what they can do to bring. Because I read the play. It's a very dense, very intense, kind of dark play. And you're reading it and you're like, wow, I don't know how I'm going to get through this. The minute the actors start talking,

talking the dialogue and doing whatever the hell they do, it's just like, it comes to life. It's really interesting. It's the thing that I really love about New York is I was saying the other day I went to see Bridget Jones' Diary. You can't get more like pop and fun and cutesy. And then I went to tech rehearsal for

Curse of the Starving Class. And it's just the greatest thing about New York that you can go at any day, any night, and go see off-Broadway this intense, incredibly interesting play and that...

is totally relevant today. And then the next day, see like a Bridget Jones movie. - Like premiere, yeah. - See a premiere with like Renee Zellweger and like, and you know, gorgeous Leo Woodall. Like it's just like, it's just a great thing. - Well, that's why it was funny.

Talking to everyone to go see this play, by the way. It's I don't know. I'm linking it in my Instagram. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. No, I'll share. No, I'll share it. OK, I'll give you the link. And it's super cheap. It's not like Broadway. The tickets are like seventy dollars. Yeah. And the theater signature theater is small. So it's like very you feel like you're part of the whole production.

And by the way, there's a sheep, a live sheep in it. I won't give it away. So you met, so you met Calista. Oh, I met Calista because she came over to me after the table read because we all went around and said our names and whatever. And, and, and she said, you know, she played my mother-in-law. And, and,

And then she said this, first of all, she is gorgeous. She's so striking in person. And I just was like, she kind of looks like my mother-in-law, like the high cheekbones and the wide eyes. I was like, damn. I thought it was a good cast. It's a good cast. And she said that she had read something or heard something I had said about Lee that she would repeat in interviews. And she was just so lovely about it. I'm going to forget. I guess I said something in relation to Lee always being in the shadow of Jackie.

I said, Lee was never the shadow. She was the sun and the stars. And I guess Calista had read that somewhere and she would say that in interviews and stuff. She goes, I think they cut it out a lot because I think they wanted to perpetuate that. That there's a sibling rivalry and all that. Yes.

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Speaking of which, you know, there's all these, because you're part of this, you know, Kennedy situation, you know, one of my favorites was Greg Gardens. Yes. With Edie, which was like...

Lee is buried next to Big Edie. And that is Lee and Jackie's cousin was Big Edie. Yes. Yes. Right. And she had this fancy home, but she and her daughter like just. So anyway, I mean, I said it to Sonia. I'm like, it was like Grey Gardens with that townhouse with you. And she like, you know, is laughing on the whole thing. And I go, do you still have these interns? You know, and she's like, oh, yeah, you know, they.

they help me with my OnlyFans, you know. I'll show some feet for the pervs. But they really help because, you know, then I, like, I put it all together and then they have it in a Dropbox and, you know, then they can distribute it. And I go, do you pay the... She's like, no, no, they get school credit. I'm like, what? The school credit is hosting a 60-year-old woman's OnlyFans? Anyway, she goes, but you know what? They have a great life. You know, do you want to work at a Barnes & Noble and, like, barely get to afford your sweet greens? Or go

fashion show and hang out with Josh Flanagan it's like she's like come on I'm showing them the greatest life ever and I'm like yeah I'm sure I'm sure like you're so entertaining and I'm sure it's fun for them I don't think they're getting any kind of school credit they'd have to be in school I don't know how that works

Maybe she's not baby girl now. She's like, let me have some other interns that do more than just post the content. Post my only. But some of the comments were like, she was so funny and entertaining. Some were like, wow, this is kind of sad in that she was on this show and they got all new cast. We don't know if they're ever coming back. And Luann is doing great with her cabaret. Bethany obviously has her thing going. Jill has her thing going.

And you know, but like you see that Sonya's like, "No, I mean, I'm modeling lingerie. I'm doing OnlyFans. I can't do traders 'cause I have to do my cameos." And then it like, you know, and then I'm doing this cabaretsque show and all these other things. And some people are like, "Wow, like you are a housewife. You were married to this like, you know, billionaire or whatever."

I'm like, I wonder if there should be a little program just like they now have with a lot of football players to be like, you're going to be making this much money. We want to teach you, not just put you into an advisor that can steal your money, but we want to teach you like to not be overly generous with your money with family or how to keep it going and da da da. And I kind of wonder like, well, we all know that you guys don't get paid a lot, but when you guys did it,

You were not, the cast wasn't paying for personal glam and giving them hotel rooms and taking them on the trips. And I'm like, at a certain point, like as a housewife consultant, I'm like, learn how to fill in your own eyebrow. Like seriously, like before your house forecloses on, just because you're on Housewives, like I know you have to have this perception that like, oh, I'm going to have this fancy party and they make you pay for your own parties and things. But at the same time, like,

Don't be in the red after being on a show that makes the franchise, you know, whatever, $300 million. It's like half a billion dollars now, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we didn't fly around glam or anything. I'm trying to think. I mean...

I mean, I wasn't overspending. I was not pretending to be richer than I was. I was just being, you know, I was just like, this is my life. I live downtown. I love my apartment. It's a, you know, one bedroom. It's perfect. Yeah. And, you know, I'm not trying to be rich. Right. I'm not trying to seem like I'm richer and not flying in hair and makeup. But, yeah, I think there's a lot of, because the potential, like after the fourth season, you do start getting paid more.

you know, a decent amount. But, you know, after you take out like wardrobe, hair, makeup, all that stuff, like if you're really overspending there, that could be your whole salary. Right. Like it really is, you know, and then I guess now it maybe is a little different because they make a lot of money on social media. That didn't exist when I first started on Housewives. Can you believe it? Like Instagram launched the same year I was on the show.

Like no one knew Instagram was like, no one was doing brand deals. Yeah. I mean, I don't think until like Kim really started like, oh, I should be paid per post. And then she really kind of paved the way for like everybody to then make money off of it. And you're right. That probably didn't really start happening until like around 2010-ish. Yeah.

Well, I started in 2011. Instagram didn't launch until 2011. Oh, okay. 2012. So I'm thinking Twitter, yeah. You're right. Twitter announced the same, in March of 2008, the same month that Roni announced. Yeah. So there wasn't even Twitter when Roni originally, seasons one and two. Yeah.

Like, Twitter was just in its infancy. Right. And you told me that you know the new Roni girls, that you've met them all. I don't know who's on it now. I mean, I've met the ones that were on it maybe last year. I don't know if they switched them up. Right. Or are they switching them up? No, it's all the same. They just added Rebecca Minkoff. Okay. And then she already announced she's not coming back. And it wasn't really a good fit, but I don't feel like really any of them really were. It's just so different because they're all like...

You know, they didn't know each other before. And they're just, like, what made it, you know, what Sonya said is it just shouldn't have been called Roni. It should have been called, like, something. I don't know what else you'd call it. Had to be called Roni. Had to be called Roni. But I think that's where, you know, Roni 1 and 2, I don't know. But, yeah, I get why they had to call it Roni. I think people are, I think just like people are nostalgic for the 90s and, you know, and, like, the Bridget Jones and the, you know,

John and Carolyn's story, my story, I think there's a little nostalgia for the old, original cast. I mean, in their defense, when you guys came on, there wasn't really...

even if you wanted to, to watch them all on Peacock and study it and then go, ooh, I gotta have a storyline and then I've gotta bring up this snarky thing and then act like I didn't mean to bring it up. Like, did I just say that? And you guys were just living in the moment and then you were all smart and funny and had that New York, like, no bullshit way about you that would just get you to, like...

say it in your own funny point of view. But again, it was never like super mean or snarky. Like even like, you know, with Ramona and stuff, it's like, she just is who she is. And she's just not really self aware. Right. But then the, everyone says like, you know, when you need her, like if someone passes or something, like she's still there as a great friend. Yeah.

- She has all those girlfriends. - Yeah, all those girlfriends. I'm not gonna apologize for it, you know what? I'm not gonna apologize for having a bunch of gorgeous friends that happen to be one percenters. I mean, they're probably, you know how many people are one percenters? I mean, they're probably like a .5%. And it doesn't change it, because I'm the biggest heart of anybody I know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I'm the biggest heart of anyone I know.

But that's who she is. Based on her age, where her bubble is, that's what made it fun. We wanted to see these people that lived in a place, New York City. We don't live there. I want to see what your life is like. You don't have to apologize. I get why someone gets on it now and is going to be way more self-conscious because they've seen...

That, you know, what happens to people or that, you know, canceled or this one thing they said haunted them for the next 10 years. Like, I totally get it. And it's not their fault, but it's why the joy of the show has changed. Like, it just has changed. They're playing for the show and they're playing for social media. Yeah. And we didn't really have that. I mean, towards the, you know...

They definitely didn't have it in the first six seasons of Roni. And then when Instagram really started, when people really were aware that this could be monetized and brand collabs, and then people were retweeting and reposting things. But what we had, we had blogs, like...

Yeah, you had to do that. We had to write blogs. But also there were like housewife bloggers. There was one called Stupid Housewives, S-T-O-O-P-I-D. And they were like so mean. But it was just like a blog. Yeah. Right? It wasn't a fucking TikTok where you're like...

you know, like there's a video of you saying some stupid fucking thing. Right. And, and then it's placed over and over and over again. I just think the cast now is just dealing with a whole other host of things. And I think in a way you're, you're right. Everyone's study, everyone can study it now. Maybe it's a bit,

studied and a bit like they know they can make their money off they're going to make their money in social media with brand deals so they're not going to they're not going to take their top off and make out with each other and jump oh yeah i even think about that they have to really protect their business and their ability to make money you're right yeah because you really don't get paid um i think they still probably get like sixty thousand dollars a year a season a season and and

And you're filming for a really long time, months. We filmed a couple of seasons, like five months of filming. And then it doesn't end there. Then you're doing the promotion and the marketing and the blogging and you have to screen it and then do Watch What Happens Live. It's a lot. It's not just like...

this finite little chunk of time and then you can go off and like live your life. You're constantly, you know, and then you're gearing up for the reunion and then you have the reunion and then you're gearing up for the next season. So a couple things. So $60,000 after hair, makeup and taxes is like...

You're very aware that you're going to make a lot more money on social media now than you are from the show in those first few seasons. Right. And I think that, so we are filming this in the world famous Lowe's Regency, where the Regency bar is downstairs, which is, you know, please don't say it's my tongue. When Beth...

And Bethany had a friend just happen to send her a photo of Tom in a compromising position who was engaged at Luann at the time with some other woman. And last time you came on the show, you actually found out who was responsible for taking the photo, sending it. And it was Michael Cohen. Michael Cohen, who was friends with Bethany's boyfriend at the time, Dennis. Michael Cohen, Donald Trump's former attorney. And then so he got the call.

With the text to go down and take a photo. Yes. He took the photo. I mean, let me just say, I had not thought about that in many, many years. I had no interest in, I didn't care one bit about any of those characters. Right. Because you weren't on that season anymore, right? No, I was. Wait, were you on the season? No, I was.

I was. You were on the season of the Tom. Yes. You were on the trip when she's shaking with the Bethany, with the. Yeah, that was Miami. I was on like two seasons. Okay. I can't remember where. But, but I had been off the show for several years and not thinking about it at all when I was having dinner with my friend who was a movie director and, and Michael Cohen walked in and, and was trying to pitch my friend to do his book as a movie and sat down and,

And I mean, I thought, oh God, I'm just, I do not want to have dinner with Michael Cohen and, you know, Trump's attorney. And he actually turned out to be so funny, so crazy. He knew all the housewives, like literally knew, he'd lived in the same building as Dorinda like 20 years ago. He knew Ramona, he knew all of them. And he knew Bethany through her then boyfriend.

and Luann, all of them. - Right. - And he said he'd even met me before, but I didn't remember it because he was close to Aviva. - Yeah. - And then he said something about Tom and Luann and he was like, "Well, you know, I took that picture." Like he just literally, and I was like, "Wait a minute."

what? And he told me the whole story. That he got the message from... Yeah. I think it was like a setup. I think the whole thing was a setup. The whole thing was a setup. That the girl had been talking to Tom and it was like, I'm going to go see him at this bar. Yeah. And someone takes a photo and sends it and then Bethany can act like she was this great friend trying to stop this. But when I talked to Luann, it was like, I have said like,

Do you ever think, well, maybe, you know, she was giving you a gift to maybe, like, not marry him. Yeah. And, yes, but at the same time, it was one of those, kind of what I'm talking about, those mean moments where you do it on camera. Yes. Like, you could have easily been, like, um...

Off camera like yeah, I gotta tell you something. No, but you're on the reality show. You can't do it off camera right? I think that's the main part of it It was setting the whole thing up to begin with setting it up to be getting you're right. Yes, text me But she didn't she didn't just get the things said to her. Yeah. No, no. Yeah, I think it was so long ago But yeah, she knew that this girl was going to meet Tom. Yeah, I think she had met this woman

I mean, good luck or bad luck or whatever. She had met this woman and this woman said, oh, I still hang out with Tom. Text me the next time you're going to be with him. So it was kind of set up like that.

And once it happens, whatever, it was set up, it happens, you can't say off camera. You can't just do it off camera. - But the shaking of the skinny girl was always good. - No, no, it was so ridiculous. - That was always good. Get that in there, yeah. - I remember walking in, I'm like, I don't understand, you seem more upset than Luann. Luann was in the hallway at one point, she was like, oh Jesus, now I gotta deal with this.

And, like, Bethany, I think, was crying. It was so crazy. It was so crazy. But it was so good. Like, it really was so good. That was weird. As someone watching it, you know? Yeah, okay, yeah. The other thing that you mentioned last time you were on was when you went on your one date with Prince Andrew. Oh, God.

And that was a long time ago. It was like right after your widow and you said you spent some time in London for the holidays. And I mean, talk about, you know, dodging a bullet.

No, I didn't know at the time. I mean, I don't still know anything. Right. But I didn't even think of it really as a date. I just thought, you know, he was like, I don't know. He was being nice. He's the prince. So he's just like the minister of tourism almost. Yeah. And he...

We end up going to the ballet and to dinner. And he was, you know, did he sweat? Did he ever sweat? Remember, he says he doesn't sweat.

Oh, he does? He says, I have a disease that keeps you from sweating. Well, he didn't sweat. No. But I saw him only with his clothes on at dinner, so I don't know. But, yeah, that was my only experience with him. I'd seen him a couple times after that. Listen, everyone, you know, to me, he was... Would you... Okay, now I ask Sonia this. You know, these Ultimate Girl trips that I am...

spending all my Christian hours, I have to do Christian service hours for myself, are spent trying to get-- - What's Christian hours? - When you go to Catholic school, you always have to do a certain amount of Christian service hours. - But when did you go to Catholic school? It was like four years ago. - When I was little. But it's in my head. I just am like, whenever I do something nice for someone, I go, oh good, I got my Christian service hours in. It's just something I say. - Oh, okay. - So one of my Christian service things that I'm doing is to get Ultimate Girls Trip back on the air.

Because I think it's a win-win for everybody involved. They only film for one week. Yeah, it's lucrative. They pay the girls good. We get to see all the OGs. Oh, you do? Sometimes they're from all one season. No, normally they've been mixing them, but I'm fine for doing old season one week.

And just have them be nostalgic. And I know they were going to do that with the New York girls and then it fell apart. And then this thing happened with branding. I thought they did Roni Oil Girls. Didn't all the Roni girls? Oh, wait, they did. They did. You're right. They did that. And you know what? It wasn't really... It was okay. But they mixed them up with other girls. They should probably now. Now that you say it, they should mix it up. It was still fun, but it was like...

like it would have been Jill was supposed to do it and then Jill was like, I want to be paid the same as everyone else, which is completely fair and whatever. There was a big thing.

I still think we can bring it back, but they haven't done any for like two years. Oh, because they did one and Brandi Glanville allegedly groped Caroline Manzo. OK. And then there was like a lawsuit. So we never will see that one. Oh, Morocco, which was like Camille Grammer and like Gretchen Rossi, like people that we like Alex McCord. Like it was like a good it was like a weird mix. That's interesting. And so.

I actually am also starting a class action lawsuit of Bravo viewers that want to sue Bravo for the ability to watch this thing because we're never going to see it. And I talk about it so much, but no. Why don't they just cut out those parts? Cut out Brandy and Caroline. I don't know. Cut them out. I think it just will get people talking and they want everyone to forget about it. And then they're like, Heather, shut up. You keep bringing it up. Okay. So.

I want to do, would you, if they bring it back, would you do a one week thing, real, like of the...

Like an ultimate girls trip. One week where they take you to Hawaii or something with a mix of women. And you guys all kind of like ask each other about. Do we get to pick? How does it? Do you get to pick? No, you don't get to pick. No. Oh, they just put people together. Yeah, they just say, are you down? And this is the week. And will you go? And I'm just saying because you've not really done any of the stuff since you left. Since you said to Andy, oh, are you afraid of her too now? You had to bring that. When you said that.

I said worse than that. There's something that, I know, but there's something about that moment that just like still like gives me chills because it was like, you know, and it almost makes you feel like, you know,

Like, he's the king, and then all of a sudden you see that someone, you know, has said something. Against the king. Yeah, against the king, and then it's like, oh, shit, you know. I did not have an oh, shit moment after I said that. I know you did. No, I was like, what the fuck? That's what's so good, because you're like, yeah, like, you're like, but that's what was so good about it. But would you go? Would you do an Ultimate Girls trip? Yeah. I mean, I...

Would you do it? Just say yes. Yeah. Okay, so like, yeah, I'm going to make this happen. We're going to bring this back. Maybe they don't call it Ultimate Girl Strip. Maybe they call it something else. I don't know any women other than the Roni women. Maybe they should call it Bravo Getaway. That's what they should call it. A Bravo Getaway. And you could even throw some guys in there or something. And it's just bravo.

Bravo celebrities that we all look like right now. They're doing traders. Yeah, and people really like it But they mix them with like survivor and Big Brother and none of those shows I watch What about my housewives with like below debt? That's what I'm saying. That's what lots of other Bravo That's what we call it Bravo getaway. Yeah, and it's a vacation for a week or two with a mix of people two weeks, maybe a week and

A week. Okay, fine. A week. And it's a mix of people. And you could throw in some men as well. Yeah. No. No, no men? No. Okay, only girls? Okay, fine. Women are more fun. All right. You know, they get into it. Just trying to get people to work, you know. Oh, okay. Yeah.

No, no. Is that like Harry Dubin kind of people? No. Okay. Did I tell you that I hung out with Harry Dubin when I was in Palm Beach? No, but I'm not surprised. So I went to this bar and Ramona was there. She was very nice. In Palm Beach? In Palm Beach. And then later on had lunch with Ramona. But Harry Dubin came on by and this woman was like,

I'm going to marry Harry Dubin. And I'm like, does he know that? It was very weird. Like, women want him. I don't know. Women want him. And he's flirting with me. And I'm like, I'm married. And I just don't think that matters to some people. But whatever. He, you know, yeah.

You were there then when the leg was thrown, right? Of course, yes. And the story, like, yeah, we all know that this story is that she knew she had this planned, like planned out. The only thing fake about me is this leg. And when do you think she got the idea to throw it? Do you think she got it before she ever took the role? No, no. I think she got it because she got the idea to do it after she didn't go to the trip.

Because I feel like she realized that that was a major mistake. Mistake to miss all those days of filming and interaction. Because I think contractually you have to

Contractually, it's like you really obligate to go on the cast trip and the reunion. Or maybe it's changed. No, I know the reunion. Or if you don't do it, like when Lisa Vanderpump didn't do it, I believe she told me she gave up $250,000. Right. Not to be there to talk about Puppygate. Right. Well, she probably did because it's probably three episodes and she gets paid per episode X amount of money. So maybe it added up to $200,000. Yeah. Like if you're not on the episodes. Right. She had to give that up. Oh.

But if you don't go to the cast trip, it's just like there's some things. And I think probably she realized, oh, shoot, that was a misstep there. So she was just trying to do something that would be so dramatic. Can you believe that? Yeah. It's one of the best scenes ever. But then she didn't come back after that. I can't remember your reaction, but I remember just the way. I remember giving her the leg back and I was like, you need help. You need to get help.

I gave her the light back after she threw it across the... How heavy was it? It's not that heavy. It's light. Did you put it back on the table or did you... I handed it to her. Because she put it out on the table and then she threw it. And then she threw it because... And then Ramona told me that originally, Ramona said that she also had a plan that Harry, who was her ex-husband... She wanted Harry to carry her out. Yeah. Harry told me too that that's what she wanted and Harry's like, I'm not doing that.

That would have been so good. That would have been so good. See, there's not a moment like that in the two seasons of Roni or any or very other, a lot of other shows. Very few shows have multiple hilarious moments, and I think that's why this...

the fans just like adore anyone from like your era of Roni. Yeah. Of the original Roni. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's nostalgia and it's just, it was like, I thought it was like a lot of comedy especially in the first. It started getting a little darker. I could see it kind of turning the last couple of,

couple of seasons and then just started getting when they cast when they cast like Leah and well then surely but even when I was still on it it just felt like there was like you know there's a lot of like not just setups like setting up Tom and like that was kind of like yeah but like

opposition research. Like, just, like, trying to, like, really, you know, mess with other, with some other cast and leaking of stories, putting in fake stories and page six or this and that. Like, I just saw, like, it just started getting a little, like, mean. Like, and not, like, funny crazy. Like, mean crazy. Yeah. There's a difference. I think when there's plotting, that's when I get turned off. Yeah. Like, when you're really plotting to, like, hurt someone's

livelihood or do it because you don't you feel like you don't have enough going on and I'm like yeah listen if your life is what it is that's fine as long as you're a funny commentator funny in the moment but if you're not then you're like well I better pretend that I'm gonna have a baby at 50 yeah when we all know you don't want to know there's a new girl that that is very likable she's on Beverly Hills a

But I'm not the first one saying it but people are like I don't believe this story She's 48 and she already has a daughter who's like 16 She says no she has it. She says she's got this boyfriend that she hasn't even said I loved I love you, too But they're all their conversations and things are about Having a baby, but she also had to have fibroid surgery the whole thing doesn't make sense It doesn't make sure that like she's having a surrogate like no like she says I want to carry it myself. I

I'm like, are you in like crazy town? What are you talking about? See, that kind of stuff. And I mean, yeah. And I'm like, and also, it's one thing if she maybe had never had a kid, but like she already has like a 16 year old daughter. She's a widow. And then she, this guy that like,

on and they have not even said I love you. And then she goes and has dinners with, you know, Dorit and Erica to talk about her plan to have a child with this man who she doesn't say I love you. They don't live together. They're not engaged. It's not like they're married. Is she starting like IVF and all that?

That's what I'm saying. I think it's a bullshit story. I think it's kind of a BS thing of like, well, what could up my... All I have going on right now is I've got a 16-year-old daughter and I'm kind of dating this guy. So what could up it? And I do think when you've watched it for 20 years or however long it's been on, 17 years,

And your cast, you're like, I need to make a splash. And I can't just be there saying snarky marks about someone's outfit. I got to have something going on. Because it's the audience that keeps saying, you don't have a good storyline. I'm like, well, what about the woman who's like, no, I'm sorry. I'm not going to get divorced or tell you that, you know.

I have some horrible ailment or something. Like, I'm not doing that. So if that doesn't make my life interesting, then I guess I'm out. Like, who cares? Yeah, I mean, you really... You have to be... You have to be...

It's a hard job. It's hard to do. You have to be very clever and funny and authentic. Like you really just have to really be, and hopefully you have an interesting enough life that you, but if you're not, I always find if you're not really funny, that's when you start like having babies and like, you know. Like when Ramona was trying to say she was pregnant. I'm like, honey, that's menopause. Yeah.

And they were on the yacht, and she's peeing on a stick. I wasn't on that season, but I heard those things. You know what? Mariano, we have sex every Tuesday. And, you know, I'm like, you know what? I don't know. I don't know. I had Avery when I was 40, so now that I'm 54, it doesn't mean I can't have another. I miss my period. I'm very menopausal.

Or full-blown. Or full-blown at $54. Oh, my gosh. This was so fun. Thank you so much. I'm really excited. I want to see your book become a play. I want the play to be a big hit that you're investing in. Thanks for all the scoop. Did I give you any scoop? I feel like you did. I loved it. Oh, good. Because I like to give you any scoop. And then I spoiled Baby Girl for you and rewrote it. So we got a lot done. Yeah. And then who's going to play me in the Ryan?

Yes, I want to hear from people. I got a lot of DMs about when that was announced. I didn't even know that. I mean, I don't really think that I'm going to be part of it.

Your character, yes, it is. I mean, if it was true, I would be, but I don't think it's like, it's just ripped from the headline. Do you have any ideas? No, people started DMing me pictures of Miley Cyrus, and I was like, why am I getting all these pictures of Miley Cyrus? And then I was... The only thing is she has such a distinct voice. Yeah. It's so deep, it's very kind of smoky deep, that

I don't think she could pull it off. No, she's much too interesting looking and interesting. I was literally... But I want to find a better person than I think that could get your... that actually has the acting chops to get your mannerisms down. Oh, okay. I'm going to find it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Love you. Thanks, everyone. Remember, go to HeatherMcDowell.net because I'll be in Palm Springs March 1st at the Agua Caliente and you want to get those tickets. Thank you. Bye.