Super Bowl, Kanye’s Demise and RHOBH with Kate Casey
Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald
Deep Dive
- Kendrick Lamar's Super Bowl LVII Halftime performance contained symbolism that was not immediately apparent to all viewers.
- The performance generated significant discussion regarding its political and social commentary.
- Reactions to the game's outcome varied widely, reflecting diverse fan bases and loyalties.
Shownotes Transcript
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Heather, Juicy Scoop.
Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I want to remind you guys I'm coming to the East Coast February 14th in New York City at the Palladium Times Square. Saturday, February 15th, I'll be at the Lincoln Center in D.C. And Sunday, February 15th.
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Kate Casey of... I'm back. The amazing Kate Casey has a great podcast, Reality Life with Kate Casey. She's been my friend for over 10 years, maybe even more like 12. And so, of course, we want to talk. Let's talk everything about it. Congrats on your win. Thank you. Thank you very much. You are a Philly girl. Yes, I am. And your team won. We won. Now...
Yesterday when I was walking the dog, which was Sunday, I was like, was it Philly? Like what crazy East Coast team was.
was there this story that haunts me about once or twice a quarter, and that is a fan getting so excited that the team won that he went and ate the shit from the police horses. And so during the game that the party I was at, which everybody was a Philly fan. Oh, good. And I just wore my items that I had from when I was Taylor Swift two Halloweens ago. So
So, Halloween and a half ago, whatever. And so I was like, oh, there'll be people rooting for the Chiefs, whatever. I have a shirt. Go Taylor's boyfriend. And I got there and I was like, oh, my God, I hope. But then they thought it was OK because that's since I was like mocking him. They were like, I go, yeah, I'm mocking him. It's fine. Like, I'm not really for the Chiefs.
And but I pulled that up and I started to show the Philly people and I go, do you remember this story? And nobody did. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. But they were like, it was 2018. Oh, yeah.
Well, you have to know that 2018, we had gone decades without winning. So that requires some people to eat. We were in tears. Like we were out of our minds. We couldn't believe it. So that like doesn't shock me at all. I haven't heard any more accounts of horse poo eating this time, but a lot of crazy. A lot of crazy stuff. Riot type of stuff. You know how you have your own algorithm? Like everything in my algorithm is like eagles, eagles, eagles. So I live in my own bubble where I think
about them all the time. But it wasn't until I went to Canada like three weeks ago, my son was wearing an Eagle sweatshirt and there were so many people that were coming up to him and saying things. And that was the first time I thought... Like pro Eagles or not? For the Eagles. Oh, cool. Then you realized it was like a cool thing. Oh my God. I think everyone's for us. Yeah. Like they're really for us. And then I really started to feel it certainly in the last couple of days, but... Well, they killed it. Killed it. Taylor was not...
Did she not come out in the halftime show? I never thought that. Did you see the moment where she got booed? She got booed and she seemed surprised, which I think they were just like, I don't think they were booing her. It was just more like they're stupid and they're booing that she's obviously a Chiefs fan and her boyfriend. That's correct. What do you think about Travis showing up in his like 1970s like fancy outfit?
Like the Saturday Night Live suit. My friend Chris said he looked like Ron Burgundy. I felt like Ron Burgundy if he was a pimp. Yeah. A little bit like that.
When he left the game and he went into the suite with her. Yes. And the way he looked like just a complete zombie, like surprised. It reminded me of A Real Housewife, how they think they killed it. And then the season starts to air. And then they're like, wait a minute, the audience is totally against me. I felt like that was like the kind of the outlook, like they couldn't believe they lost. They couldn't believe it. They couldn't believe it. And everybody was for the Eagles. And they lost by so much. Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. Okay, so let's talk about, oh, Giselle had her baby. Yeah, a boy, right? A boy named River. Of course, that's on that track. She moved on. And then Kendrick Lamar did his routine, you know, and his routine. He did his performance. And I know, you know, they're not like us. Like, I know those songs. You know, I was thoroughly entertained.
But not till I woke up at one in the morning did I realize, oh, actually, this wasn't patriotic. This was not like I was like, oh, look how nice it is. Like because I'm hearing I'm just seeing like red, white and blue and Uncle Sam, Samuel Jackson. So I'm like, oh, it's cool that everyone's becoming like way more, you know, go America. And then when I read all the stuff, I'm like, oh, it was like really kind of.
The whole point is that it was like it was very negative towards. Well, I mean, patriotism to me is celebrating American values, which is free speech. Yeah. And he did win a Pulitzer Prize in 2018. Yes. And I was really cool to go and look at how.
Because then I was like on TikTok and I was seeing how everyone went through all the symbolism and everything that it meant and just what a lyrical genius he is and all of that, which I always think is really cool with hip hop. Like there was a class that you could take at my son's high school that was like hip hop music.
Lyricism? Yeah, and history and just sort of the same way we would dissect like Shakespearean plays and where the language felt so different from today, but you could like figure, oh, they're actually talking about this, whatever. So that was really cool. But then there was a lot of talk of like,
The songs were not popular enough for the general public because we normally get, like, I mean, if you're comparing it to like Dr. Dre, which had that hip side. Yeah. But then also everybody knew it from like 65 to...
10, everyone knew those songs. Well, I presume part of that is that it's really difficult to get people to want to perform, which sounds crazy because it's the highest honor in music really to be asked to do the Super Bowl. But you don't get paid well. Like the weekend. Right, you get like $600 or something. Yeah. It was like $1,000 a day scale union. Yeah.
The Weeknd actually used a lot of his own money for the performance. So you have that and also the pressure. I mean, like, for example, Saturday Night Live, if you and I were asked to be hosts, we would be like, duh, yeah. But a lot of performers freak out and they're like, I don't want to do live TV. So I think the pressure that comes with performing is
that a lot of people don't want to do it. Yeah. You don't want to be like repeat, you know? So, well, I thought, I mean, I thought it was a great, I didn't, I didn't dance at the time. I didn't realize that the, that the, the thing was the PlayStation. Yeah. I missed all that. Cause I'm like out of party and people are talking. Yeah. That'd be hard. Like I,
I enjoyed it. I thought he did great. I thought it was cool, but I didn't really understand what was going on until like I, you know, read about it after. Sometimes that's fun though, because I found out only a lot of the nuances between himself and Drake and,
And like the Serena Williams part of my friends. Yes. So Serena explained this to me. Serena used to date Drake. But he went crazy because she broke it off and he was obsessed with her and he would diss her and her new her husband in his music. Drake was like anywhere. He's like one of those people who is all emotion.
And really gets wound up when a girl like breaks it off. And like he has a whole history with Rihanna, for example. And like Rihanna and Serena Williams are like, I have my own thing. And then he has a whole history with the girl, Millie Brown. Millie Bobby Brown. Yeah. They were just really good friends. She was 13. And yeah, talking about being in the biz together. Yeah. They were just talking on the phone a lot. Yeah. My friend Chris told me that apparently he has a room in his house.
with Chanel bags for the wife that he doesn't have yet. What do you think about that? Isn't that weird? You know how I always say it's like the small things that say so much about somebody like that? That's nutty. That's also like a move every girl you date. Like I remember I dated this really rich guy when I was a senior at USC and I
He went on to marry a girl who has a fabulous life, but whatever. He was very rich. And he was like 40. But I went on a date with him. I met him at Trader Vic's one night.
And on the first date, like I drove to the house, it was in the Palisades, probably not there anymore. And like each door was like, you know, several thousand pounds. I'd never experienced that. There was a couple that worked there together, you know, like a man and woman, like butler. Like a manager, like a house manager. Yes, I loved it. But anyway, we came into the house.
And then we went to the woman's closet where there was like the first section and everything. And he was like, do you think you could fill this one day? So I think it's like a move. Like on the first date with my husband, Peter, he's like talking about his work and he used to travel a lot for work. And he goes, I like to fly first class. Do you like to fly first class? Oh, I remember you telling me that.
And I was like, I've never been in first class. He's like, well, buckle up, girl. And actually, we did go in first class for our honeymoon. But I had never. But it was one of those like stupid drop those. No, like someone's going to be like, actually, now I enjoy like a middle seat. Like, no. So I think he's probably doing that because he can. And he knows that it just.
If the girls weren't going to sleep with him before going over, like they would. And then but the whole a minor thing in the necklace. Yeah. Like savage. Yeah. That because he took out the word pedophile because I guess Drake was going to sue him or is suing him because he has that word about Drake in one of his songs. Yeah. And but then he still kept pedophiles.
enough about what he thinks and then other people are like oh my god let it go move on you know keep drake's name out of your mouth but most people are like loving all of it i mean you were part of it like the reaction of people that had been following their but i but i still was like why do they hate each other so i looked and i looked and i looked yeah and i guess at one time drake said
that Kendrick Lamar himself and somebody else are the top three rappers. And then Kendrick Lamar is like, no, I am. I'm the top. And that was how the fight started. I don't know. I'm probably getting it completely wrong. Yeah. I think it's like,
What we obsess about with reality shows, it's like all the little nuances. But I think at the core of it, it probably gets under Drake's skin that Kendrick is kind of what he wishes he could be. The lyricist and has the personal story that makes sense to be the rapper. Right. He's from Compton. Yes, the storyteller. Drake, who's from Canada and was a child star. And like was super wealthy. Right. And he was on the little kid show. Degrassi. Yeah. I think he has an imposter syndrome.
Drake. Yeah. Well, I met Drake at a Kardashian Christmas party and he was a total delight and took a photo with my Drake and Brandon. Oh, why was that not your holiday card? Um, you know, I, I, I have given it to the boys, so they have it to use when they need cred, but they're very little in the photo. Um, but yeah, I mean, so I, I don't know, but I, I was like,
You know, found it interesting. And then just like anything else, they know that it's exciting. But then all like the, you know, game over, turn off the TV, you know, get ready for the revolution, all that kind of stuff.
It is cool, but I think a lot of they went over most people's heads, including my own. And it's kind of fun, though, in the aftermath of it. It was fun. I think we live in an Easter egg time. Yes. Taylor Swift does that all the time, too. And I think it's fun in the day after putting all the puzzle pieces together. Yeah. So that was cool. This girl, Jordan Hudson, the 24-year-old dating 72-year-old Bill Belichick, supposedly she has an engagement ring on.
She was in the Dunkin' Donuts commercial with Ben Affleck standing next to her boyfriend. So she is 100 percent getting everything she needs to out of this. Why has someone not pitched a reality show about these two? Well, she will probably say yes and he'll probably go along with it. He'll go along with it. And I think he's like, I don't care. Like she is into me. It's fun. I've got, you know, 15 years left on this earth.
This is who I want to hang with. I don't care what anyone says. I mean, whether she was 24 or 40, who the fuck cares? He's not dating a 70 year old. That's that. Yeah. Even if he was dating a 50 year old, people wouldn't make a big deal about it. But still, that's 22 years difference. If he was dating a 50 year old woman.
That is still a huge age difference. So once you get to like 40, 50 years, who cares? I also think now that he's coaching at UNC and he's around all these college kids and he's recruiting lacrosse players, like he's got the young girlfriend. This may add a couple of years onto his life. Yeah. Right. Why not? Yeah. But then you're her friend and you're like, can Bill like bring over his players and not
Yeah. His contemporaries, because I don't want to hang with those grossies. Okay. Then the Kanye commercial. Did you see the Kanye commercial? I don't think I did. Tell me. So he, all of a sudden, the middle of the Super Bowl, Kanye pops up and he says, it's an iPhone video of himself. And he goes, I spent all my money.
To buy this commercial and to show you my new teeth and whatever. They just look like weird. He looks like a New Jersey house husband, a real house husband in New Jersey, but worse. Anyway, who knows what they were. And then it just goes Yeezy.com. That's all he said? Yes. But then what I found out this morning is when the people that clicked on it, there's only one item for sale. Oh, no. What is it? The Nazi symbol. What?
On a white T-shirt. Why are we giving this guy any ounce of attention? This is the last thing we need right now. Why are not people more outraged and not talking about it? And then I'm like, well, I see why because we don't want to give him any attention. But then I feel like we have to say something because it's so gross and gotten so out of hand. And he was ranting all weekend with the most horrific stuff that he was saying about Trump.
Some of the things he was saying, he was like asking Trump to free Diddy, saying his friends are not sticking up for him.
He was then Diddy's attorneys came out and blasted him. Then he was talking about Bianca. He did end up finally they kicked him off of X. Finally, Elon or somebody was like enough people wrote. I think David Schwimmer was writing stuff. I think I saw that. And finally, or he voluntarily left. He was gone as of, you know, Monday morning. One of the other things he said about his wife.
Here's a tweet. I have dominion over my wife. Well, I don't even know what that means. Dominating? Is that a version of dominating? I think he's trying to say I have control over my wife. This ain't no woke as feminist shit. She's a billionaire. Why would she listen to any of you dumbass broke women?
I guess, bitches. People say the red carpet look was her decision. Yes, I don't make her do nothing. She doesn't want to, but she definitely wouldn't have been able to do it without my approval, you stupid ass woke pawns. I have no respect or empathy for anyone living because no one living can F with me, but I do love some people and I give them a favor. By the way, shame on all those media outlets that
posted those pictures she's clearly posted it she's clearly a woman who's being controlled that's public I did is that bad yes that's public humiliation of a woman I don't okay well then then I'm sorry but I mean I don't know when it happened the night of the Grammys and I even talked about it with Chris I go I'm surprised like they're letting me put this on
On Instagram. I know. They're all complicit. But I did it. So are you mad at me? Yes. Okay. Not mad, mad, but I just don't think all the media outlets should stop posting pictures of it. I'll remove it. I feel badly for her. Hold on. Let me phone. I really am. Hold on. You know what? She's got to leave now, though. Now...
She needs to leave. Okay, now if you don't leave, then you're just as bad as him. I wouldn't say that. I think it's really hard when a woman's being controlled. So now here's my next thing. Okay. You know, I've talked about this, like, Kim, my God, I don't think there is a worse person to co-parent with in the world right now that's a celebrity besides Kanye.
And I know she's in a hard position because her kids, I'm sure, want to see their dad. And I'm sure North is, you know, she's now a momager to North and North definitely has her own mind at 13. But if I was Kim, if I was Kim, this would be it.
I would be doing ex parte in court changing whatever custody arrangement we have. I agree with you. And I'd be like – I agree. I'd be like, my kids cannot be around him. No. You know, look at what he's saying. And even if he doesn't really feel this way about Jewish people –
he's at the verge of like, he could just kill them all. Nannies are not security guards or not. Like I, I'm not letting my kids be around this person. That is that. And I'd be like, I'm sorry, North, if you're mad at me for it, like your dad is insane. And if you can't explain to your kid why you can't be around someone that is saying this stuff. And I don't care. You could, someone go, well, it's for PR. It's publicity. He's selling a shirt. I know.
It's despicable. So it's like it's disgusting and not enough people are enraged about it. And it's shocking with people like that because they say it so often people sort of become. And then again, I get it. We don't want to give him attention. I understand that aspect of it, too.
But and maybe if you're friends with the Kardashians, they're like, please don't talk about it. You know, it's not like Khloe's going to talk about this on her podcast. I mean, you know, I get it. But like I am because this is just disgusting. And as a mom, I'd be like, oh, my kids are not going to be around you. Like I said, with security guards or not, you're not going to see him until he dies.
gets evaluated. And if anything, he's like, I have been evaluated and this is the way I feel. People do feel that way. And it doesn't mean they're crazy. There are hateful, awful people. And he might just be a hateful, awful person. Well, also, you see him psychologically destroying a woman in front of us, let alone what he must do to his own kids and privacy. This is what he does publicly to a woman.
Think about what he would do behind closed doors. Yeah. So that was awful. That was this was kind of interesting just for fun. She had a these pants on that someone caught, which are these shorts that got a little hole in the front for a strap on.
And she's wearing them out. Because he likes to humiliate her. He likes that. Probably, but why would he? He likes that. I mean, Amber Rose said that he liked it in a tweet a long time ago. She did? Yeah, that's fine. I guess a lot of guys like that with girls to be wearing strap-ons. Well, we know he has a history of telling the women that he's with what to wear. He likes to control even all aspects of their life, including what they can wear in public. Right. Even with the Julia Fox, when she talked about that one month with him.
Um, Kris Jenner is selling her $13.5 million home. This is the black and white Florida home that then she left. And Rob has been living in for like the last like eight years. Oh, he has been. Yeah. Oh. And so she's selling that. And, um,
And so I watched the Hulu latest episode of the Kardashians. This is the premiere episode. I have not really watched it since they've been on Hulu. Oh, really? And I just was like, I just I'm like, I was looking around and it popped up on Hulu. I'm like, I'm gonna watch it.
And in the episode, Chloe goes over to Malika's house, her friend, and they arrange for Lamar, her ex-husband, to come over because she has some of his old stuff. And obviously they paid him to make this appearance. And obviously he needs the money to do it.
So she gets over there. You said you watch it too. And she says, I haven't seen him in nine years. So when, so they were divorced already when he went to the brothel in Vegas and basically died and they brought him back to life. He was on so many drugs and had a heart or stroke, whatever. Yeah.
They, you know, the family gathered around. They took care of him in the hospital. They found another house in Calabasas. They got custom furniture made because he's so tall, took care of him and everything. And she was kept coming over. And then she says in the show, and then one day I came over and he was doing stuff he shouldn't be doing. I assume she means drugs. Yeah. So that's when she like kicked him out. Hasn't seen him in nine years. I was under the impression that he like was owning rehabs and stuff. Or maybe he was the face of rehabs recently. I feel like that. Yeah.
I don't know when this was filmed, but it felt like that's maybe not what he's doing right now. So was that in an attempt to do some sort of brand crossover? No, they don't talk about the rehab or anything. It seemed like he was kind of fucked up, to be honest. So he comes over, he's profusely sweating.
And she's like, what? Are you going to talk this low? Like, we're filming a show here. And I'm like, I remember when they had the Chloe Lamar show and it had to be all in subtitles because you couldn't – he was a mumbler and you couldn't understand him. And so I'm watching it with Peter and we went to the wedding all those years ago after they'd only dated for 30 days. Mm-hmm.
and got married, got married at the Azov's house, Irving Azov's house. Was everybody around you like, wait, what's going on? What's happening here? Yeah, it seemed crazy, but it felt like... She was like so in love with the mom. Here's the thing. It's all part of the mom. Like one thing about Chris, and I remember thinking this, what I remember the first time I met her and I was like, wait a minute, Kim got married to this guy, Damon, who had four kids when she was 18, secretly in Las Vegas. Like,
You were going insane. And she was like, well, you know, I, you know, no, I was going to be there for like, I guess she didn't say this, but I guess she figured I'm going to be there when they break up. Like, so if I condemn her now and it's already done. It's hard. So I get that it was already done. And then she did break away. But in this particular one, I feel like.
From what I remember, Khloe really hadn't had like a real boyfriend. And he was so into her. And it was like the height of the Lakers. They had the show. I truly believe they were like in love. And there's couples that get married that quickly and everything. But here's what I'm going to say in watching this interaction.
Regardless if he had ever taken a drug or cheated on her and they were married for now 15 years and had two teenage kids, they'd be divorced today. For sure. Because she...
was 24 and he was this basketball player and it was sexy and it was fun. But he's still stuck in that time. He's still stuck in that time. He shows up wearing a shirt with himself on it and she's embarrassed. She's like, oh, you're wearing yourself on a shirt. And then she's like,
Like, can you speak up? And she's like annoyed and not attracted at all. Like purposely wore like jeans because he was always like rubbing her legs and stuff. Like I remember. And so she was like, I don't even want to like show my legs or have him think that I'm like at all. And yeah, like if they were together like any other couple, she would have completely outgrown him. She, you know, is a businesswoman. She's really smart. She's very likable, you know, and, you know, huge with the American culture.
Good American gene company. Everything else she's done. And also a mom. Also a mom. She's really thinking about her own daughter. Like, why? What am I doing here with this person who doesn't represent who I am now? I mean, listen, you know, not that she needed him to have done drugs or almost died, but...
Sometimes you got to be grateful for someone treating you so badly that you could walk away. Because if he didn't do all those awful things, if he, like I said, never cheated on you,
You know, and they were lamb lamb and and she's got that loyalty. She probably would be in a marriage with a guy that she's totally does not respect, is annoyed by and thinks is dumb. I think that's why everyone likes her so much is that they just want her to win so much. Yeah. But I'm like, she should seriously be grateful that he showed himself so quickly on before she had his kid. Mm hmm.
And everything else, because then she probably would have given him a million extra chances because he's the dad and da-da-da-da, or she would have been doing all that stuff for his family. You know, it would be interesting to hear her give advice to, like, Paige DeSorbo.
Yes. Because people are so in arms about Paige and Craig breaking up and the reason they must have. Yeah, here we got Paige and let's jump to that. Paige, of course, we've talked about, she's from Summer House. He's from Southern Charm. We talked about their breakup. He went on Watch What Happens Live recently. And I thought it was really great because he shared...
Yeah, she did break up with me. And then I did do an interview a couple days after she broke up with me, but we weren't public and I didn't know anything.
If we possibly could get back together. So I played along that we weren't broken up, but that seemed to irritate her. So he was responding to a podcast that she did where she's like, I didn't cheat and you knew we were broken up and you still acted like we didn't. So now he has to respond to that. But the thing that he said, I watched what happens live, which was really good. And he's like,
Am I supposed to defend what people are saying like on Reddit? Yeah. I'm not. Like I was very, you know, he was very classy when they broke up. He's been classy this whole time. He doesn't know if there was something else going on. She's gone up and down and said it hasn't been. There's somebody named Joe people think she's seeing or saw. Who cares? They're broken up.
They had a nice three year relationship that didn't last forever. They're both like, well, I think you and I kind of agree on this, that sometimes there's a person that's great to date, but not to marry. Right. It's easy to get married. It's hard to get divorced. So I feel like Chloe would say, yes, count this as a blessing that you guys were able to figure out this now and not and save each other the headache, because I think he ultimately wants to get married and have kids and
If she didn't feel like it was the right time and place or whatever, it's a blessing in the end. Because it leads them to the person they're supposed to be with. And she probably was like, why am I resisting this?
There's a reason why, you know, it's like when someone, you know, like when you're dating a bunch of people, I remember when I asked my sister when she was dating her husband and then they got, you know, engaged or whatever. I'm like, well, how do you know he's the one? Like we've dated, we both had dated so many people. And she's like, cause it's easy. Like I didn't have to think about one thing. I didn't have to think about if he was into me, I didn't have to think if I was into him, I didn't have to think, will he make a good husband? Are we going to have a night? Like I just didn't have, there was no,
you know, and that's why where I think it was like, and then also you have, you know, it's hard when you're a public figure, a public couple that's like loved like them. Yeah. So you have all the people cheering them on and all the people like can't wait for it. And I think she really did have fun and liked him and everything, but she wants to stay with somebody because you don't want to disappoint other people, right? You can't, you've got to live for your, I think
they should make her the bachelorette because they put the bachelorette on hold for another year. And I think it's because Gen Trans season was so bad. I didn't even hear about it. Exactly. So they usually go off the success of the last season to propel the new one. They should make Paige the new bachelorette because then you could have Hannah Burner and all of her friends kind of come and participate. It would help that show grow. But they should give Craig a spinoff on Bravo dating show.
And I think the women would come out of the woodwork to want to date him. The only thing about having Paige on is that she's just, I'm never going to believe that she's into any guy that would go on The Bachelor. But that would be so funny. We're not thinking she's going to marry somebody. I'm just saying entertaining TV, like her quips. It should just be a show. So funny. Who will Paige go on a one week vacation with? Because that's going to, then it's like,
OK, because we all know she's never going to marry some guy that was at that level of thirst to go on The Bachelor and leave whatever. And if he did it, he didn't have a good enough job. He's not a power enough, low enough person with his own. The good people at The Bachelor don't think those relationships will last either. They just want to make an entertaining TV show. So I think that would be entertaining. But I'm just thinking for her own brand, she can't. She doesn't want to be inauthentic.
to her people. So it has to be something just like, okay, I'm picking a guy that I... It would be a two-year commitment too. They might try to say, well, you can't film anything else. And she's got too much power. And it's like, I don't think she wants to... And also she's...
I guess she's freezing her eggs or whatever, but still, that doesn't give you all the time in the world. You're still like, you know. But still, it does buy you some time. So if you freeze your eggs, you can... She should marry the person that she feels right. Take out all the noise. She should have some fun for another year and a half. But whatever. So that was kind of interesting. You know who the horniest people are? Who? Pregnant people. Those that are newly single. Sometimes divorced women, but newly single and women that are ovulating.
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Okay. So today, after recording this, this is not out. But apparently Justin Baldoni did a podcast where there's a clip and he gets very emotional. It's called like the two gents or something. I've never heard of it. Gents talk. Gents talk.
Jen's top. I thought it was like breaking news. Yeah, I thought he agreed to give his one and only interview to probably this guy either. He gave Justin a kidney we don't know about. Right. Right. Or at one time they were lovers. I don't know because I'm like, who is you're not going to go.
To like Joe Rogan, you're not going to go to like something where everyone's going to hear your side in like a half a second. We're going to have to search it out. But you told me it's your understanding that this was recorded a while ago. November of last year. So he alludes to the lawsuit before the lawsuit. But after the trauma before the lawsuit and the complaint, but after bad PR and all that anxiety, a very difficult year. So at this point, everyone's looking for any social media clip. And yeah, I don't know why that.
didn't put the interview out in November of 2024? That to me is a big question. Maybe they were just like, yeah, like I know I would have been like the minute, but maybe that's the lesson to people. Like maybe wait till it even gets bigger to plop it. You know? I mean, think about that. That was recorded three months ago. What if the part that he's crying about is just like, you know, his dog died. Right, right, right. It wasn't even like had anything to do with like,
You know, I was treated so badly on this last project I did or whatever. So AI found this. This is what they're saying. This is from truth or lie dot AI or whatever. So there's a video of Blake doing another interview. There's so many coming up. And she says that the rooftop scene.
was written 90% by Ryan Reynolds. And I totally believe that with the crypto bro line and the laughing and all this other stuff, because she felt that her character wouldn't have fallen if
for this gorgeous neurosurgeon that looks perfect while you're hanging out. Or something like she would have, that her character, Lily Bloom, would have noticed red flags earlier? Or would have busted his balls? No. Like, anyway. So she says that it was him. So I'm like, okay, so now...
Now we know Taylor has all these reports that come out before the Super Bowl. She didn't invite Blake and Ryan to the Super Bowl. But also that she's annoyed. And why are you bragging me into this weird thing? I'd be pissed too. Yeah, I think she just thought it was like,
You know, she had this fun friend. It's fun to have a famous friend. They probably had some chuckles and laughs for her. It was cool to be around. Like she probably loved Deadpool as well. Thought he was funny. Came over and was like, oh, my God, how cool that I'm seeing this script before. Yeah. Like, but she's not. She's basically saying, yeah, it's Ryan. And we know how Ryan writes stuff and everything. We know that then at the same time.
The movie was even done. He decided to add this whole nice pool character, which was making fun of Justin. So it's, it's, it's just, she's just telling, she's just, there's so many clips of her telling on herself that it's like unbelievable. Can you imagine he gets rights to the movie in 2019? You work all of those years. This is your project. You're like, this is my launch pad to something. And then to have someone rewrite, redo things. It's just like slipping through your fingers. Like,
you thought it's like quicksand, right? Like you thought you had something and then it's just disappearing in front of you. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, listen, if the trial doesn't go on, you know, I'm starting to think the trial will happen. I know there's a 92% chance of settlement, but at this point where so many people are invested in the story,
You have to have both sides to agree to settlement. And at this point, I don't know. It's weird that we don't have all the stories in the clips of people being like, I worked with Justin and he's a nightmare. I still feel like... So where are those? I wish we could fast forward to the end of it all because we don't have all of the discovery, you know? So it's hard really to say who wins at this point. But at this point, in terms of a PR war, it does feel like he's winning. Oh, yeah. And there...
Two aspects of that that I find really interesting, obviously, the power dynamic. I think a lot of people can relate to that in a place of business where you may have to placate someone because there's a difference in power. But the other part of it is, and you totally relate to this, is how traditional PR has changed in an internet era. Like the internet is almost like a destruction machine.
And you have old school publicists who used to represent maybe a couple A-listers who could make a call to a traditional media company and say, kill this story or do a softball interview, and then I'll give you access to my other client. And they need content, so they're a little bit more willing to placate. But now everyone in
comments has their own social media channel. So Mary816 on TikTok is like, I don't give a shit who you are, publicist. I'm going to say what I want because my opinion is getting attention. And the more controversial opinion that you have in the internet, the more virality you have. So that to me is what's really interesting too, is the power shift in traditional media versus
The social media era. Yeah, totally. And, you know, and just like...
she got wrapped up in like, you know, this vengefulness to go after him, her and Ryan to go after Justin because she felt there was whatever a campaign against her or she was reading the hate pages about herself. And we've all been there and it is, it gets in your head. And that same thing happened with like a page and, um, Craig, you know, they were reading their own weird stuff of people saying, and she, she, uh,
I didn't cheat. And then, you know, it's like, well, why aren't you defending? Why aren't you standing up, Craig, and saying, hey, she didn't cheat. And he's like, who's saying this story? Some random like blind item that then had, you know, 300 comments under. And I've been there, too, where someone's like, you need to stand up and be like, settle down, juicy scoopers. And I'm like, no, I'm not drawing attention to something that's not significant. There's no proof to it. There's nothing there.
It isn't a trial. It's just the talk. But when you're in it, it can be really hard. And it really is important that when someone is in that place that they really just put away their phone for a couple weeks. I think in a lot of cases, the best crisis PR advice you can give to a client is to play. The short game is to just disappear for a while. But for somebody who is an actor who feeds off
you know, the attention from their work and their personality, that's near impossible for them. You know, Stassi did it really well. She did do it well. Because she went away for a little bit and then she was pregnant. And just walking around and she's with her husband or maybe they weren't married yet, but they were together and she's pregnant. And it just it showed like, wait a minute.
Like we, we love this girl. She's given us entertainment now. She's finally becoming a mom. But it also offered her the opportunity to have some introspection and to have a moment and recalibrate and think about where she wanted to move her career. And didn't she write books after that? Yeah. I mean, she really had a, like, she really had a great comeback from what that time of like quick to cancel people was, you know, that 2020 time. And, but like in this, like,
Now, because you've put out this lawsuit that anyone now can talk about, you chose to do it this way thinking that they would either just crush him or he'd skittle away or whatever. Yeah.
And he didn't. And now all of your personal text messages, emails, personal communication is all fair game. And I think we've all been there in this business where people are like, you should sue. You should sue for defamation. And there's times where you're like, yeah, fuck this motherfucker. And then you think about it and you're like, okay, wait a minute. What does that really look like?
What would that really gain for me? You're going to spend so much money on these lawsuits. And where is this going to keep me up at night? Yes. Is this going to be creatively debilitating for me? Yes. So it's better sometimes to lick your wounds and just shut the fuck up and go away. Yeah. But it'll also be interesting to see the two different worlds, like the implications for them in the public space.
spotlight, but also within the entertainment industry. Yeah. Like how many people who have positions of power in the entertainment industry want to work with either of them? The other thing I saw someone talk about is how like millennial couples, them being one of them, and they were kind of leaders of it, would like
Talk about like how they like hate their spouses or hate their kids. Like he has all these like tweets and funny jokes about. I think he's just odd that way. Yeah. Of like, you know, you know, not liking his, you know, his kids or she said, you know, he'd leave me in a burning building or whatever. I don't know. I mean, in other words, if they weren't famous and you saw those comments, you'd be like, what a weirdo. Yeah. Right. Right. They just get into this thing where she, I, again, I just don't think she's.
Anywhere to the level that like Scarlett Johansson was as far as like intellectually stimulating. Also by doing all this, it almost opens the door for people to start picking away at their marriage dynamics. Yeah. And whether or not there are control issues. So that's the decision that unfortunately some people make in the pursuit of a lawsuit. Yeah.
That there's this other aftermath that comes with it. Yeah. I don't know. I don't even know if it's possible. Like she could now just go to him, have them go and be like, what can we do? Because it's like there's too much pain that has been caused. Yeah.
It's like if right away she was like, okay, I'm taking it back or whatever. But now there's too much that he'd be like, no. Because now he only has something to gain. He already lost the three jobs. He already got dumped by William Morris. Now he is producing Scarlett Johansson's first directorial debut. Now the work is going to start to come. Everybody's like now he's...
he's the underdog to settle like now it's like go for it now everyone is like no he's a really nice guy and it's just like absolutely awful so meanwhile Blake Lively and Anna Kendrick when does this movie A Simple Favor 2 come out I'm not gonna watch it so I don't know I guess she didn't die in it
I guess it was like her twin sister that died or something. I don't know. I don't even know what the movie's about. Oh, I loved the movie because she played like a bitch in it. It was just perfect. And they have weird moments on the couches doing interviews too. Every interview that...
Blake Lively does is weird. But they're saying they don't have any beef. They're good. And I'm like, of course, Anna Kendrick's going to be like, we don't have any beef. Well, then they've got to promote the movie. Yeah. And like, again, don't drag me into your bullshit. You know, what do you think? They said that Jenny Slate, who plays Justin's sister in the movie and her best friend, it ends with us, that she would be called for to be deposed from both sides because originally right off the bat, she was Team Blake.
Now she's probably like, oh, my God, keep me out of this. Without question. She's like, this is a nightmare. Yeah. I chose the wrong side. I chose the wrong movie to work on. Right. My friend Hillary Shepard says has the funniest term. Actresses that play basically play themselves in every role are self-actresses. I feel like Blake is like that.
Like the roles that she really nails are the ones where that's mostly her. That's why she says in those clips, like, I weave myself into it. It's like, you're actually cast for roles that probably you're much like. And I think all the weird choices for the clothes was her trying not to be herself. Right.
So she was like, oh, my God, that's great. Like this funky kind of dressing with the two pants and all that. Tell them about the pantyhose thing you told me in the pajamas. Oh, yes. So, OK, so after the first night that they like spend the night together, I don't know if they bone or just whatever, but she comes out wearing pajamas and she's
And that's when the sister discovers that they hung out together, whatever. She's wearing pajamas and someone discovered that she has her black fishnets on under the silky pajamas after spending the night with Justin Baldoni's character for the first time. So in the movie, she's wearing fishnets with these $2,700 Yves Saint Laurent fishnet diamond boots. Stupid. That she wears to the party. And so that means either they...
Messed around with the fishnets on and then she put on pajamas and slept with fishnets and pajamas on. Or as you said, or you're just a lazy actress. You're a lazy actress and also that the wardrobe person at that point had checked out and wasn't looking at like a consistency moment like that. Like, wait, wait, wait.
You know, remember this is, you know, there's always this stuff that happens when you like film the other scene. They have to check and make sure like the hair is exactly the same or like your collar was out, not in. And then there was like, we took a class at SC where we would like. Oh, cool.
Figure out, oh my God, that's an edit mistake. Look, they went back and now the sheet's off her boom. Now it's on like all this weird stuff. And you see it in reality shows too. And that's when you know, or like the nail plot, like you know they actually went back and redid a whole scene when you see that like the nail polish is a different color or a whole nail is chipped or something.
That's when you're like, oh, they redid that. They had them come and show up. That made me laugh when you said that or you're just like a lazy actress. Yeah, you're just lazy. You're like, well, I don't feel like taking these off and I'm just going to keep these on because we just filmed the other scene with the fishnets on. So yeah, very weird shit like that. This was interesting. This is from the first degree TikTokers or maybe they have a show. I don't know.
But they brought up... She's so pretty, that actress. That this girl, Marina Baccarin, she was in the latest Deadpool. Okay. And there was a blind item saying that they were not getting along a while back. Okay. And she was not part of the press. And she was on the red carpet, like, by herself. Let's get her on the horn. And so something happened there where...
Maybe, you know, he either didn't like her or maybe Blake was jealous of that and it was a tit for tat. Like, she's not going to be part of it or who knows? Who knows why this rumor and if it's in fact true. We haven't heard from her. I don't know. But I would like someone to delve more into it. But the first degree girls figured it out first. But here it is. Yeah. What happened there? What was her experience and why wasn't she involved?
a bigger part of like doing press with him. And that's awful too. With Ryan. And I, by the way, again, I feel like people relate to that in all kinds of businesses that you're in. Like when somebody has more power than you and you feel like you can't say your honest opinion because it's going to create a situation where you're not hired for a new job. Like, yeah, especially as a woman, you never want to be perceived as difficult, like difficult. Like I remember I was doing a, um,
I was doing a show at a comedy store in San Diego. And there was a comedy condo. And I was with my friend who was opening for me. And it was the condo. It was like the middle part. And then we each had our own bedrooms. And we said goodnight. And she was going to leave early in the morning. And I went to bed. And then I heard the front door open and shut. And I was like, well, I know she hasn't left yet because it's like 1.30 p.m.
And I was like, that's weird. And I just remember like God like said to me, just stay quiet. Just stay quiet. And so I did. And I just told myself she must have just been checking her suitcase or something in the hallway. And I just told myself that I didn't call out to her or anything.
So the next morning I wake up and she's gone and flying back to Denver. And I start driving and she, I go, oh, you, did you make it there? Yes. And she goes, she goes, the weirdest thing happened last night. She goes, I feel like someone came in our, our condo. And I go, that wasn't you opening the front door. And she's like, no. Oh my God. And so we talked about it and I'm like, we thought somebody at the club, maybe somebody
They didn't change the combo because they're supposed to do it every week, like an Airbnb or whatever. And maybe they thought we weren't staying there or and they could stay there for the night or maybe something more sinister was on this person's mind. I don't know.
And then, of course, my mind went to a whole different way of like, oh, my God, what if I had come out? I'm like, and you heard me being killed. Would you have jumped out the window like of yours? Like what? Like I thought of like all the crazy shit because I would have been like, what the hell are you doing? And then the guy freaks out thinking I'm like get him fired at the, you know, at the comedy club or whatever. So I think about it. And I at the time.
this is only like a few years ago, I was so conscious of like not being difficult as a female, as a female comic, you know, whatever. So I finally tell, I look and I see that another girl is headlining in like two weeks. And I'm like, I got to say something. I see that maybe it was Taylor Tomlinson that was coming. And so I told my agent and he was like, Heather, my God, no, you have to tell me this, you know, and, but it was like,
I just was like, again, you know, you I'd had things like happen, like where I knew that sometimes I didn't get asked back because someone was like, oh, she was annoying. She asked too much that, you know, like it was like, you're like, can I have a water?
Yeah, like there was this one thing that we did in Vegas that a lot of female comics did. And part of the package was like you could have go to the nightclub and do all this stuff. And so I took advantage of all that. But that meant people coming, following us, seating us there and all that stuff. And then I found out that other female comics were doing the gig by themselves and going up to the room and going to sleep. And I was like, that person is a much easier person.
person to deal with though. You know what I'm saying? Like the girl that came alone that was like, no, I don't need you. I don't need security to take me to the club and I don't need all of this and I don't need you to call into the club and say, save me my table. And so then I was like, oh my God, I wonder if like those people talk and somehow they're
And you never know. Like, you never know. So it gets in your head. And so now you're this actress and you get a feel that maybe, like, Ryan doesn't like you or whatever. And you just are like, I'll just do whatever I'm supposed to do. God forbid she's in the same agency and she complains, like, does she lose representation because she says something? Right.
Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of ripple effects. I know. And it's no way to prove it because it's like if you do speak up and complain or something, they're like, oh, my God, I'm so glad that you shared this. You absolutely could. But then they're also like.
And if your agent is a man, too, it's like when you would tell your male high school teacher, can I go to the bathroom? I have my period. And they're like, like, sometimes guys just don't want to hear anything that's like. Mm hmm.
Anything least bit uncomfortable. And then also we're into a legal thing. If there's any kind of, you know, harassment, sexual harassment, abuse of powers, anything like that. Also, the sad realization, I think, that we're all kind of realizing is that it really is about how high someone is in the food chain. Oh, my God. I just remember another awful story when I was working on Keanu Everway's my first writing job. It was hard. It was my first writing job and I wasn't really getting the vibe of like what
I was supposed to be doing or whatever. And the agents were these young agents and they were like so excited to be like, we got this 27 year old writer, like a real writer's guild job. So I guess they're like trying to like prove that they had some power. So anyway, I think I was like having a hard time getting along. I felt like I just like, you know, entered a new school or something and I just was like a dork. And so they showed up to like talk to the, like the producer ahead of a, of the writers to kind of be like, you know, Heather's not comfortable or whatever. And,
And I remember one of the male writers who became my friend and we worked on other projects since came in and was like screaming at me and was like, you're fucking with our fucking livelihood and stuff. And I'm like, I didn't even mean to complain. They were just asking me how it was going and I was stupid enough to be honest. And I was like, well, I feel a little awkward or, you know, they got mad at me for this one thing. They thought I like, you know, whatever. And...
I was just like a bag of nerves. I was like, this is, and then I was like, now these people hate me because I spoke up and I look like this little like annoying person and who's not even really contributing that much to begin with. Cause I'm like, don't understand how this works. Yeah. It's really hard. Or if you are working at a company and you want a promotion or you want more, you know, to be paid better, any sort of thing like that, you can get
get a reputation as being too needy or... Yeah. Difficult. Sometimes it's hard, but sometimes you have to decide when you're going to shut the fuck up. Or sometimes you have to let them. I just wanted to talk about Mel Robbins for a minute because she is everywhere. And a lot of people are like, who is this Mel Robbins woman? So...
She has a very successful book and podcast and now tour and every motivational speaker. And this whole let them thing is like, hey, if you didn't get – if you find out all your friends –
had a beautiful luncheon without you, you know, let them like let them have that great luncheon. And now I know people are going to probably correct me. This is what I've gathered from it. I have not read the book. But like the minute you stop trying to control those around you's behavior, then you can gain control of like whatever. Makes sense. But the let them, the let them. And so I see that she's, you know, going on tour and I'm like, oh, my God, what if like
a bunch of women are like calling each other and they're like, Hey, let's go see, you know, her on tour. And then no one gets back to the person. And then they go to the, to the show and they see a bunch of their friends all planned and went, and they're like, Oh, I guess I got to let's let you guys just exclude me. Like, what do you plan a trip? It didn't include you. Let them, even though it's coming to see me like, okay, with that, um,
But I looked up some things about her. So she was a lawyer. Yes. And then she had a syndicated radio show that didn't go. But now this podcast is huge, which I love. So that was canceled. And then she did her own thing. And, you know, sometimes you're on this path and you do it for many years and then it pops. And it seems like her philosophy and everything has popped. And people really like that. She's talking about mental health the way she's doing it. And, you know, she's like my age. I think it's all great. Yeah.
But anyway, we were researching. She has said she has an open marriage. Oh, really? So that's the ultimate let them. If they want to fuck someone else, let them. You can't control. If I want to fuck someone else, let me. So I was like, yeah, of course you should. If your whole philosophy is like, let them, of course you should let
I shouldn't be shocked that you have an open marriage because you've got to let everybody be and do what they want. Maybe her kids are all I think older now, too. They're in college. I don't know if this is the first or the second husband or what. I think it's the first, but they're probably in an age. And I think they do work with her sometimes. I don't know. Where like your kids, you could have conversations like that. And again, I did not read the book. I don't listen to the thing. Everyone relax. I think she's very successful. I know she's bringing a lot of joy to a lot of people.
But I'm just those were just some of the things that I keep seeing in my feed. A million let them let them let them. I was like, OK, well, now this sort of makes sense. And then also there was a woman that also wrote a poem called Let Them. Oh, really? Now, there might also be a moment where she gave that woman credit, but she was getting some criticism for that. I think people like her because and I followed her before she had a podcast. Yeah.
She's just pretty natural looking. And she just puts things into short clips that seem complex, but she just simplifies it. So I think that that's why she's really taken off. Yeah, and she covers a whole self-help book. You could just watch a couple clips. She covers everything. I just saw one that she was like, hey, to the 20-somethings, your friends are going to scatter. You were all really close in college, and now you're not.
And it is what it is. And again, she goes, that's it. They might have a party and not invite you. I'm like, my God. You're like, why do you keep shoving it in my face and no one wants to invite me to anything? Like just when I thought I felt good about something, I'm like, oh. There were a lot of Super Bowl parties I didn't get invited to. Did you still get upset about stuff like that? Not like I did like a year ago. I mean, like 10 years ago, I think you would have taken things a lot more personal. Oh, no, it's only recent.
And it was before I let them know. It's only been really recent that I finally am like I mean, yeah, really recent that I that I'm not overly bothered. Yeah. Now I kind of get a kick out of it and I don't care. That's good. And like I had several people that I'm talking to on the phone who was like, OK, well, I'm having people over for Super Bowl. Yeah.
But, you know, I'm so happy. Whatever we were talking about, I shared some news and I was like, all right, cool. And they didn't say, by the way, it's really small or I'm not going to buy you. They just said it. And I and I was like, let them. I didn't care because I already was invited to one. There you go. And I only needed to be invited to one. I didn't invite you to 17 and figure it out. You would have had to map out how you can get to each one and stop in. So that's good. Right. Maybe. Yeah, that's good.
And also, yeah, with age, you don't care. But yeah, that philosophy does help. But at the same time, just like the classic, he's not that into you. Yeah. I think you also have to be honest. If these friends aren't reaching out and they're not including you, it could also be that they're not that into you. Or they don't feel the same as they did five years ago. Or you're not part of the inner group. Or you haven't reached out enough. Yeah.
You haven't reached out enough and therefore you're not part of this text exchange. You know, do you just sometimes as you get older, you have less in common. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people have a lot of shit going on as you get older. Job, taking care of elderly parents, kids in school. I think the only way to get over friends, not including you, is if.
you're screwing someone that you like or you're, you know, have a good marriage and you're happy with your marriage. Okay. Or you have like gotten to a level of success that you didn't have back when they were inviting you. And that's the only way it's not going to hurt. I've never been the kind of person that gets upset if I'm not invited. I don't know. Well, I mean, it's, it's hard because you wouldn't have known it. There was a lot, it was very easy to keep it a secret. Um,
You know, it used to be you wouldn't know. You know, it used to be you passed out the invitations in the classroom and not everybody got one. I mean, that was my first of not being invited. Yeah. Was my friend Carrie's birthday. And we both brought out invitations the same day and I invited her to mine and she did not invite me to hers. Yeah. And we both invited like the same other eight girls.
And then I remember the mom called my mom and was like, and I heard my mom going, yeah, I see we have an issue and sure. We'll move ours the following week. And then she came and was like, I forgot this at home. Oh. And so I'm like, I guess that's why I'm triggered by the non-vite because it's like, I remember it show. And I remember feeling bad for her. Like I thought I knew she had like a good heart, but she just didn't want me at her party. I wasn't her top eight. Like she just,
I wasn't top of mind or whatever. Then they made it that if you give out invitations at the class, you've got to invite everybody. That's not what they do. And if you don't, then you've got to call them and you've got to be quiet about it. And now I would say, you know, and also don't post if you don't want to hurt feelings. You know what they also do in schools now in elementary? The teachers will say things like, we don't have best friends. Remember when we were kids, we were like, you are my best friend. They just kind of dissuade that. I think that's good. It's good. Mm-hmm.
I think it's really weird when adults talk. Oh, I do too. I do too. I hate that. A lot of adult women will say my best friend and I'm like, that is weird. Yeah. I agree with you. Yeah. But they also don't, we don't do sleepovers either. That's like,
Gone. Yes. I mean, there's a million TikToks on don't ever have a sleepover. It's like a common thing. All parents were just like collectively like, yeah, we get it. Yeah. It's too risky. It's too risky. It's annoying, but it's also too risky that somebody might be at the house, but also you hosting it, your kids might sneak out. They might sleep.
somebody might accuse you of something. It's like the same thing of like, you know, any kind of, you don't want to be alone with a kid that's not yours in any activity. Like I remember when my son was in like the Cub Scouts, that was all taught. But like, like even if you're on a trail,
And all of a sudden you're walking on the trail with just a kid that's not yours. You're supposed to like stop and call another person like a doctor, like a gynecologist has to have a nurse there. Like you do not for any reason to protect yourself want to be alone with a kid that's not yours. And I think.
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Okay, real housewife of Beverly Hills. We'll let them. Sutton decided to only invite to meet her delightful mother. Right. Sutton invited Erica and... No, no, no. She invited Kyle and Garcelle. Kyle and Garcelle. That was it. Yes.
And, you know, look, we all know these things are, you know, let's split up the group and then you guys. And this episode was really good for a couple reasons. Oh, my God. I loved it. We got to see her mom, who is an odd bird that, you know, one of the things I thought was really interesting is we know that Sutton is divorced from a very successful man and she gets $330,000 a month or something. But I guess financially they were taking care of Sutton.
of Sutton's mom. And once they got divorced right away, she's like, well, who's going to take care of me?
Which is the sign of a narcissistic mother, correct? Yes. There are two things going on here. You can't ask, you can't expect someone without introspection to suddenly gain some when they're older. It just is not going to happen. Right. But also the way that Sutton kept saying, people say I'm like my mother, but I'm just not. And I feel like that happens so much with mothers and daughters where they're
You believe you are the watered down version or you are the watered down version of your mother. But you all of the things that you did, like can't stand about your parent, you sort of disconnect yourself from.
But the minute you go back to being around your parent, you go back to the same roles that you had in your house and you can see yourself as a mirror, right? So in the scene, she's like, I'm nothing like my mom. But I'm like, you are absolutely like your mother, just like the Heather Dubrow scenes with her mom. And she was so defensive about...
anything having to do with her mother but I'm like I can see the similarities and by the way that's not dissimilar to everybody and their relationship with their mother right I love a housewife that takes us back to meet the mother because origin stories tell us so much and also I mean she is like the mom you know she when when uh Dorit was spilling her soul out saying that Jagger
I said, are you guys divorced? And she's saying, you know, and then I said to Jagger, no, mommy and daddy still love each other very much. You know what? I just have to tell you that it's a long ride to Oxnard. Right. And I'm not sure your voice is very good, but Sutton, name them. So we need to get going. And it was like, how about the scene with Teddy? The first season. Do that one. Yeah. When she was like, name them. No. Well, frankly, Teddy, I thought you were, I thought.
Oh God, you're going to be boring. Yeah. So I think that is just like her mother. Right. No filter. And you wonder like all of it together. What is it? You know? Um,
But it's also really sad to see because it's so opposite of what I have of like a mom that like, you know, just thought I was the greatest. So it makes you sad. Yeah. It makes me sad to see that for whatever reason, if it was Southern, if it was a personality, if it was because she married this really rich guy and she thought she was stupid to marry.
Not have made it work. Like maybe the mom was like, I don't care how mean he was to you. Like you should have, you know, in her mind, maybe the mom was like to Sutton, you failed because you let this fabulous guy get away. She's also generational. Yes. She's regional. Like the man has all the power. The respect goes to the man. She's like, I built, you know, this store. I've raised three successful children. I still don't get the respect from you.
But she really seems to respect the ex-husband more. Yes. Which is twisted. And then we had a great scene happening at a dinner at Kathy Hilton's house. Oh, yeah. With Dorit talking about PK and how – and I think we've all been there too with a girlfriend that's a little bit in denial. Yeah. And Erica Jane who is just –
been so great to watch just being like that girl that's been through some shit that is a girl buckle up yeah that's like really but it's really like a girl's girl too like giving good advice and
not at all making it about herself. Erica was not always a girl's girl. No, she wasn't. I feel like she's like leaned into it way more. I think when she was- She must not have ever been around women. I'm not kidding you. I know. I think she was playing a role for 20 years that wasn't really her. And she was, again, I'm probably like Sutton's mom. If she had Erica, she was probably like, yeah, I'm in this incredible thing. Yeah, he's kind of a dick to me. Yes, I don't want to screw him anymore. Yes, he cheats on me, but I don't care because I don't want to screw him anymore.
But I get to do all these cool things. And now he lets me go be, you know, this diva with all my gay besties. So I think her mom was a little. Yeah. So I'm just going to keep my mouth shut. Now she's the real girl that she is. Been on the show for seven years. Has her own thing going. Maybe she feels safer. Yeah. I think it's just it's just a complete like her. Her life was really turned upside down. And now she sees it and she's like, oh.
Oh, he's trying to, you know, divorce you before the 10 years so that he doesn't have to pay, you know, alimony for the rest of his life. Isn't it weird that didn't even occur to her, Dorit? It probably did. Like, Eric is the first person to bring that to her attention? I think all, I mean, it could have been that it did and then the producers were like, bring that up at the dinner. Now, Carlos King thinks that this is all not real, like this is...
What? Tell me this. Dorit and PK, like, he thinks that they're pretending. No way. Because if they were pretending, it would not be this shocking. Is it shocking, though? So, okay, now let's explore this. So...
What has she said that can't be taken back? She said that he was a terrible father. That would be a hard thing to take back. Okay, so that's why I don't think it's true. Because if you were in cahoots, then you would have some, she would be saying, no, he is a great dad and he always calls. But now he's not into hanging out together, the four of us. And in the beginning of the separation, he was. Like, okay, so that's what we would be hearing, I think.
If they were really in cahoots and there's a plan for them to get back together. They're never going to get back together. They're going to get divorced. That's my prediction. And this is real. Because you're right. She would not have said, actually, you know what? He's not a great dad. I don't know how you walk that back. I know. Because I know people that in the beginning, then they do, you know, they say, no, it's going to be good and everything. And then they're like, no, like.
He fucking missed his flight to see his daughter this week and he's not into it. He's over it. He's not a good fucking dad. And they will say it now. But in the beginning, it was like, oh, no, let's, you know, and they still might be good to their kid as far as. But then even then, eventually they'll be like, yeah, don't. Yeah. Your your dad's new wife was his secretary. You were four. Figure it out. Like it eventually comes all out. Yeah. It just takes some time. And so, no, I think, yeah.
And I think she's pissed because she's like, oh, my God, I covered up with my parents. I covered up with the kids. I covered up with your alcoholism. I covered up with that DUI. I covered up with the fact that we weren't having sex. I acted like we were super in love. I did it all because that was what we decided to present on the show. And now you want to go. The show complicates it because.
I feel badly when they go through a divorce because the one person is the platform of the TV show. Right. And then you're looking for a storyline and the storyline always like fell on his birthday or her birthday or whatever. So they're like, great, we'll plan a big ass party. The finals. Oh, good. The producers. Oh, good. So now the party has to be a beautiful toast that we all see. But if it wasn't filmed.
They may have not even celebrated the birthday and probably she wouldn't have been compelled to like do that. We don't know. But the one thing too, though, that was really funny. It's the Easter egg with Kyle when she's like, Dorit, I just don't even know who you are. I'm like, is that because she's like, all of a sudden you're not happy in your marriage? Where did that come from? I think she's just going along with the fact that like.
You know, look, everyone's going to change in 10 years between, you know, 36 and 46. But also, you now been on TV. No, she changed from last year. Oh, just from last year. Last year. She was like, of course everyone's different. Yeah, like we have a great marriage and at the reunion, like things have never been better. Because I think she was still hopeful. And now that she's not, it's like the gloves are off and she's like, fuck it. I'm done like lying and everything. Right.
Or are they like... And she said she didn't want... You're not going to be on this show if you continue to be like a mouse. Well, she said in her interview with Alex Baskin, she did not want to come back on the show because it was all of this... What she was going through with him was hurtful. And he, PK, was...
was like, you have to. You have to because it's your job and you need to make money. You need to make money. But we've seen that happen with a lot of husbands who are like, get a job because we're getting a divorce and you need to make some money. I think that Nikki was also just like, but then on top of it, if we're going to rip off all the band-aids and like, yeah, now we're talking shit about each other, which we never did before. So now it's like 10 years of like,
Stuff that we held back that maybe another reality show couple would have shared. And then if they did break up, we wouldn't be totally, you know, as surprised. But because it was such a, you know, yes, yes.
Hello, Jagger and Phoenix as she's getting her glam done. Do you know any mom that talks like that? Yes, my love. Yes, dear. I am around a lot of moms and none of them talk like that. They're like, get your soccer. Crap. But she's not doing all that stuff. So it's like... It's just so odd to me. But I mean, the kids seem to be, you know, really great and everything. And I think... Yeah, I think it's like...
And I just think she was like, fine, like not having a romantic marriage. And so now she's also like pissed that, you know, and so now she's like, oh, fuck you. Like you were gone for 73 days. Like being on a reality show, how could you maintain a romantic relationship with your spouse? I feel like it drains them. It sucks them all dry. I forgot. I forgot. There were certain housewives. I want to think it was maybe countess and also, um,
Lisa Vanderpump? Maybe not. I don't know. But there were a couple that I've interviewed that said that right from the start, they're like, you can never film in my bedroom. Oh, that's good. But that's not Doreen. They're always getting glam in the bedroom. They're always like...
Not that it's sacred, but I'm just saying there's certain things like that. I'm talking more about a marriage, the romance. How do you keep that flame lit when you're on a reality show? What about when Kathy Hilton goes 56? I do think they're in love. Who's in love? I do think Kathy and Rick Hilton are in love. Yeah. I think there's real romance there. I think there's a real friendship there, too. There's a real companionship that they're so close.
I don't want to say codependent because I always feel it's a negative, but really a team, like really together. Like we're each other's dates. We're each other's best friend, like whatever. I don't want to like necessarily, like we're happy to hang and we're happy just to go to dinner with the two of us. We don't have to invite another couple. We still plenty to talk about. We still have a good time. And I think that's the truth, you know, whether, whether it's because they did get married so young and they don't really know any different or whatever. But,
When she's like, first of all, I thought PK was 56 when I met him. That was so funny because I, you know, when I said that they were 20 years apart on my show, I said Dorit and PK are 20 years apart. This was like,
a year ago, and maybe there was some talk of them separating, he DM'd me and he's like, we are eight and a half years apart. And I go, oh, and he, at the time he goes, I'm 56 and she's 47 or something. And I go, or 48. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, she just looks a lot younger. I was shocked. I'm like, he, he, but I think she, I do, I don't think he looks necessarily older than 56. I think exactly what Kathy said. I think he looked 56, 10 years ago.
And he looks that now. Well, also the dynamic of the marriage has always seemed like he's more a big age difference and also having eternal. Yeah. And his older kids. Yeah. But, you know, in the way the contract is, he's not getting paid. Right. Yeah. Unless he wants to work out his own deal. Salt Lake City ended. Any thoughts? I don't know. I guess they're all coming back. I'd hate to be Bronwyn going home to Todd after the reunion. I think they feel like they have a lot to work out. Well, Todd and I, you know what? We will work it out. Um,
What a lot of people don't realize is we're not just about costumes and coffee cups. We're not. He is the funniest person that I've ever met. He absolutely adores me and gives me jewels. And he loves Gwendolyn. And, you know, he wanted me to do this show. And what you guys don't understand is that...
We have sex anytime he wants it. Oh, my God. So she'll definitely come back with a different house because I feel like too many people were like, there are a lot of dogs defecating on the floor and the furniture is weird. Well, yeah, I mean, she's weird and the furniture is weird and
But, you know, she's definitely got to come back. But it must be really weird when you are like Elisa Barlow and you like get this little twat on the show. Oh, I'm sure there are lots of fights about it. And that's why she's like, I am done inviting my friends to be on this show. I've literally cast every single person and you guys have fucked me over so badly. And I'm like, she's right. They have. Right? They have.
They finally have. And I get it because she's like, I had to talk to her on the phone all the time and Angie had to talk to her all the time. Yeah, because she brought him on the show and she's a phone talker and then...
You know, but then they get to feel their own oats and they're like, I am not going to kiss your feet for the rest of my life for getting me on this show. I'm the fan favorite. People love me. I've had great one liners. But then in her defense, she's like, oh, my God, why did I ever suggest that they pick you? Because I think a lot of them just figure this person's not going to become a star. Like they're just going to be a friend of they're going to fall flat because most of them have personalities where they believe that they're a celebrity from the time they're born.
Yeah. So they assume no one else has the charisma that they do. So I think they're actually like shocked when the audience really kind of loves any of the people that they recommend. Yeah.
But they are. That's a good show. They're fun. And by the way, I don't know if they're necessarily recommending as in the casting directors are scrolling through their Instagram feed to see somebody in the background. And then they look through who they follow and they're contacting people like they probably go through and see who each person follows and then kind of poke around. Oh, this person is in Salt Lake City. Hey, would you be interested in talking to me?
Imagine if you have a good friend, like you're on The Housewives, you know? Yeah. And like I'm on The Housewives.
and you're my friend and I just kind of like you being my friend. Yeah. I don't want you to be on it. Just be on the side. Yeah. But you have a badass house and you know, like whatever, you're pretty crazy. And you know, it's like, and you go out to dinner and you're like, okay, well let's take a photo, you know? And, and then you're like tagging me and you're like, why don't you share it? Why don't you share it on your stories? Yeah. And I'm like,
Oh, my God, I forgot. I forgot to share. You're like just trying to keep any friend secret. Or conversely, what about I'm your friend and you're on the show? And then next thing you know, I'm saying, oh, I'm just like I'm going to film something on the show. Like and then I show up to the party with like fur on huge diamond earrings. And I'm an exaggerated version of the person that you know. Melissa Gorga. And you're like, what?
the fuck Kate what are you doing right you know yeah I could see that happening by the way and then I'm not going to be a housewife so worried and I see that you're with all my castmates and you didn't invite me and then I have to go let them let them let them you wouldn't know any of these people you wouldn't be on this show if it wasn't for me but let them go go have fun
Oh, you decided to take everyone on a private jet to go to your- Wearing matching trucker hats that say mermaids? Go. Yeah. Have fun. And I'm like, Kate, I can't believe you guys are filming Real Housewives this weekend without me. Like, what the hell? Like, I'm just not going to be part of this trip for the next three days. And then you have to just be like, well, you upset me when you didn't acknowledge my dog the other day. Right, right, right, right. You barely looked-
muffin in the eyes. That's why I think Heather got so mad when she was an invite to Bob Springs. She's like, girl, where, like, huh? I've been here from the beginning. I'm here from the beginning. I'm a good fucking time. Yeah. And like, I didn't even do anything. I still never got, I feel like that was,
That could have been a move by the, who knows why they wanted to exclude her. It made no sense. I still don't even know why half the fights were the fights or whatever. Do you think New York is coming back? Yeah, it'll just be different. I don't know. They'll switch up people. Rebecca Minkoff, swing and a miss. And she's just like, whatever, I'm leaving. Brynn should not be on the show anymore. By the way, she should have been on a different show.
I think it makes sense from the beginning. I don't know. That'll be I'm curious to see where she kind of ends up. Does she just like stay at this level and get a few deals here and there? Because she does dress really well. She'll be on like villains and traitors and all that.
I mean, yeah, she should be used for something else. If she doesn't come back. There's a whole new category in reality TV where now they have these shows which bring in other people from other reality shows. She'll be on like a Traders or something. Jessica Alba and her husband are getting divorced. Okay. And they just both have their own businesses and so much money. Great. She's going to have so much fun dating. Yeah. Then they have three kids. Good for her. With H-names.
Honor, Haze, and like Haven. I have a Haze, but a girl. That's cute. I like that name. People are worried about Justin Bieber. I worry about him all the time. He looks awful. Other people are like, he's a new dad. I'm like, oh, shut up. Yeah. He's not, he's not the Octomom. Okay. Like maybe if he had eight kids and no help, maybe he would have some sunken eyes. Maybe what they're saying is like it gives him something to be joyful about. No, they're saying that's why he looks like shit. Because
Because he's a child? Yes, because he's a new dad. No, no, no. He's up all night breastfeeding. Give me a break. Stop it. No. What? No. I mean, this does look like he's not well. No. Worried about him. All right. Well, Kate.
This was really fun. Always. Tell everybody what you got going on. Reality Life with Kate Casey podcast six days a week. You can sign up for my what to watch list. I tell everybody what to watch on Unscripted TV. So reality shows, documentaries, and it comes out every Monday. Go to katecasey.substack.com. I have a Facebook group, Reality Life with Kate Casey and bonus episodes. What's some hot things to watch coming up? Oh, wow.
I am so excited for you to watch this season of Love is Blind. I, oh my God, I'm shaking. I can't even tell you. When does it come out? Friday, Valentine's Day. And so you've- It's in Minneapolis. Have you, did you get the screeners? I watched the first episodes. I was kind of falling asleep. I shot up.
I haven't stopped thinking about the last episode of the first tranche of episodes. Okay. I cannot wait for you to watch it. All right. We have to talk about it. Okay. That's the one to watch this week, Love is Blind. On Friday. Yeah. Because at first you're like, oh my God, they're all really sweet and earnest. And maybe it's because they're from Minneapolis. And then you start to go, that one's the sociopath.
That one's the sociopath. It's really good. Oh, good. And by the way, a great thing to watch on Valentine's Day with somebody. Yeah. Like, don't go out. Just stay in. And also, Love is Blind makes you feel so much better.
better about being married because all they want to do all they keep saying is I just want my person that I could I just want my person so I can just have somebody watch Love is Blind with yeah you know like and I'm like here I am with my person watching Love is Blind like I need to be more excited about being married look at these people are well also you watch it with your sons too yeah added bonus watch it with anyone or watch it by yourself actually my kids really got into the season too because I would be watching and they would walk through and they'd ask me about it so yeah it's the one to watch
Awesome. All right. Thanks, Kate. Thank you.