Clint and Ron Howard: If You Love It
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Welcome to Literally With Me. The great Ron Howard and his brother, Clint Howard, who have written a spectacular book about their childhood. They're my guests. Ron Howard, I mean, should be on the Mount Rushmore of show business from being one of the great child actors on Andy Griffith's show to Happy Days, Richie Cunningham, and then directing everything from Da Vinci Code, Apollo 13, Backdraft, Parenthood, Splash, and

I mean, Frost Nixon, Cocoon, Willow. I mean, it goes on and on and on, creating one of the great production companies with Brian Grazer called Imagine. And, you know, Clint having just such an amazing life with Gentle Ben when he was like eight years old. Anyway, I could not be more excited to dig in with these two guys who I've known peripherally for many, many, many years. So stand by Ron Howard, Clint Howard.

First of all, the book is great. I read it in one sitting. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. It's great to talk to you and see you via Zoom. And it's fun to be the Howard brothers. I mean, it always has been. And part of the part of the excitement of writing the book was actually that we knew there was going to be this little period of time where we'd be sort of forced to

to be together and hang and talk. So here we are. I mean, you know, next thing is I think you guys have to have a band. You know, if it's good enough for the Bacon Brothers, why isn't it good enough for the Howard Brothers? Might have something to do with vocal capabilities. And also simple tastes in music, Rob. There's a little bit of a clash there. Well, let's dig in here. Okay.

Ron, give me your top three songs. Well, that's all singer-songwriter stuff. Same. And it goes back, you know, it just goes back. But whether it's Gordon Lightfoot or Cat Stevens or, you know, of course, Simon and Garfunkel. Let's get down to the... James Taylor. At 7 p.m., The Main Hatchway gave in. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, let's go. All that stuff. And Clint actually had a band called The Kimsters. I know. I know.

I saw that in the book. So, Clint, what are your top three songs? Wow. Life on Mars.

Hang on to yourself and walk on the wild side. I think you both are right there in the pocket, but I'm going with Ron. I'm a huge singer-songwriter. Jackson Brown, James Taylor, Paul Simon. Bowie never sang any of the songs he wrote, so. So as a lawyer would say, I have to stipulate a number of things. One, Gentle Ben was one of my first shows I ever remember watching.

on TV. I was very, very, I can, I can, when I tell stories like this, I always feel like a date's not on me, but you, but fuck it. Um, I, I, I'm in my grandmother's that's the giant TV. That was like a, like a piece of furniture. And all I wanted was that airboat. I wanted to be on the airboat. And you have a picture in the book of, is it you guys driving? Did you drive the airboat ever?

I'm driving. I'm driving. When I would go visit and hang because I was, you know, 14 or so, they'd let me drive it around. It was just great. They also put him in episodes.

Yeah. There was an episode of Gentle Ben where I kicked his ass. I'm going to go back and look at that. Did we ever were worried that gentle Clint, we ever worried that Gentle Ben maybe wasn't so gentle. Like, is there a world where he just mauled somebody? No, not at all. You know, the only thing he mauled was a box of donuts.

Yeah. Well, join the line, join the list. One of the first things they did was gave me a tutorial on bears and the California black bear, he would eat meat if he had to, but he much preferred things like bags of monkey chow, heads of lettuce, boxes of donuts,

He would drink Coca-Cola by literally grabbing the bottle and tilting it up and pouring it down his throat. Amazing. And he ate a prodigious amount of food. So as we understand that after eating a prodigious amount of food, what a few hours later, the bear smelled terrible. That's amazing.

You know, it reminds me of just a total segue. There's a famous Saturday Night Live sketch story. It's not a sketch. It's a story about hosts. Everybody talks about who's the worst host, who's the best host. Apparently, Christopher Walken, who is one of the great hosts of all time, is notorious in the writers' pitch meeting, which all the hosts go to. Everybody pitches in the room, all the writers, and finally, just mostly as a courtesy, because most actors don't have any ideas. It's Ron, you well know. They would go, Lauren would go, um...

Chris, any ideas? And his family said, bears are funny. Oh, and bear suits as well. We had they had a guy in a bear suit for a while, but then that didn't really work. That didn't really work out. You know, Rob, they also very early on in in the life of Gentleman.

Ivan Torres had scripts that were sent through the pipeline with dialogue that Ben was speaking. Well, I can give you a little bit of a tutorial on the limitations of the audience's patience.

with bears. I had the misfortune of doing what at the time was going to be my big Oscar move movie. This was the movie every every young actor wanted to be in. Everybody fought for it. I got it in the room. First time ever a director hired me on the spot. It was called Hotel New Hampshire. It was based on a John Irving book. There was a very fancy

Highfalutin critics, darling, and this was going to be it. This was I done, you know, I done, you know, all the teen movies and I done all of it. But this was look out, Tim Hutton and all those. I'm on my way. Yeah. The the the movie was centered upon Natasha Kinski in a bear suit.

And it had the great fortune of opening on the same weekend as Daryl Hannah in a mermaid suit. Is that right? So thank you, Ron. Thank you so much. I'm, uh,

I won't apologize because that's the way it goes. It is the way it goes. But I actually do remember the movie. And wasn't the poster, was that her in the fair suit holding the head or something like that? Well, the posters were horrible. And by the way, how did... John, okay, this is a studio movie, guys. This is a summer studio release about a brother and sister who are in love with each other and have sex with each other. And...

Like they love it. It's like a great thing. And Kinski, who at that time was on the cover of Time magazine and is the most beautiful woman in the world, completely covered from head to toe, covered with a bear suit. And

It was so they didn't know how to advertise it. So they put us all on a bicycle built for like eight. Right. It was the worst ad ever. And you, of course, had beautiful Daryl Hannah and the rest is history. Yes, we did. You knew. But it was like Nagasaki. But somewhere sometime before Hotel New Hampshire or Splash.

Clint and I were involved in a pilot presentation. Oh, yes. That was called, what was it called, Clint? It was called Thrills and Chills. And you know what we needed? It was about the behind the scenes of this thrill show slash circus. And we really needed, we needed a potential heartthrob. We needed a really, and we desperately tried to get Evel Knievel's son

Robbie Knievel. Amazing. He came in. He was kind of interesting. He could do bike tricks and all that stuff. And at the last minute, that didn't work out. Ron, remember, he was expensive, too. He was pricey. He thought a lot of himself. And it didn't happen. So we had to cast fast. And the network went down the list and said, there's a kid we like. OK, you like him. Great. And what was his name? His name was Rob Lowe.

And all I remember is it was the most miserable shoot. I've done some pretty tough things. We were in Colton, California, and all that was happening, which is we shot for three days, very low budget, low budget.

The wind, it was moving sideways and the sand and straw was blowing into our eyes. And you were very foreseeing. You were supposed to lean and look cool kind of next to this bike. It was a cool bike and you had kind of a good after. And you couldn't even open your eyes. And I really didn't know what to tell you because I was not going to scream at you to open your eyes. You were only 17 years old. Exactly.

I couldn't really open my fucking eyes. And yet, so there we were making this thing. And it's my favorite thing ever because, first of all, it may be one of the greatest titles ever, Thrills and Chills. But wait, there was a... Unrealized. Wasn't there a bear in this too?

Didn't Peter Breck have a bear? There was an orangutan, a cigar-smoking orangutan who had been with Clint Eastwood in the... Every Which Way But Loose. Every Which Way But Loose. We had this cigar-smoking orangutan who was Peter Breck from what? Big Valley. He had a couple of good bar scenes. I don't know. I don't know what they were thinking to let us do this thing. But here's the thing, Ron. I have no idea. No one ever asked me if I knew how to operate

A motorcycle. Oh, it was an actual motorcycle. It wasn't just a bicycle. No, it was a motorcycle. Wow. Yeah. And I, and by the way, I believe I was in spandex. Yeah, I think you were. I think you were. Because we were kind of going for the young Knievel look. 100%. It was very, but I also kind of looked like I might have been a spaceman. It could have been like, it was like, if you sent Minuto to space. Yeah. Yeah.

You were game. You were there. You did your job. I thought you were good. I was very disappointed with we didn't sell Thrillz and Chills. Not surprised now, but then bitterly disappointed. And show business can sometimes, you know, rain down upon us, those disappointments. We have so many, well,

Well, look, I think it's that thing of like, I have a brother, my brother's a director now, really successful. And, you know, I related to so much of, I'm from Ohio, my family. So there's so much simpatico stuff going on. And I mean, right around the time of Thrills and Chills, it's so funny just to say it with a straight face. Right around the time. Back on Thrills. Right around the time of Thrills and Chills, I had one big fan in the world who kept bringing me in for stuff. And that was the great Bobby Hoffman. So I'm sure you both remember. Yes, that's.

Yeah. Well, Bobby Hoffman was the dialogue director and then became the casting director of Happy Days. And this is he found Robin Williams and put Robin Williams on on Happy Days.

in the episode that spun off into more great guy. You know, what a great heart. Well, he loved me and would bring me in and I never got anything. But I did finally get, by the way, I'm the guy famous for doing pilots with great people that don't get picked up. The great Ron Howard, not picked up. Gary Marshall. So Gary, not bad titles. You ready for the Gary Marshall pilot I did? Yeah, what was that?

It's about, get rid of this, a designer jeans shop. Uh-huh.

And I play, of course, the hot young Taylor. Right. With with the name Gary picked himself and told Gary Marshall Tucker to me. You like the double T's? Yes. Yes. Right. And it was the title Mean Jeans. Oh, well, I now kind of remember that title and talk.

Tucker Taylor has got a T and a K. I mean, it's got everything he could want. It's funny. It's got both of the T's and the love and you'll be the thing and it'll be there and the point of... Have you met that point? They're great, girl. They're doing the title. It's amazing. Right?

Gary Marshall, I think I say it in the book, you know, I think he was the best boss I ever witnessed in action. Really? Just the way he handled so much. Our show was pretty easy, the vernacularly was a little trickier. You know, Mork was its own crazy genius thing going on over there. All these different tones. Plus, he was beginning to direct. And

And he could just walk into any situation and figure it out and, you know, what it needed from him. Right. To be funny, to be a big brother, to be a dad, to be a badass. It was, I witnessed it over and over again. And he did the single greatest thing in the world as we started to become a hit.

He realized we're young guys. There's, you know, it's competitive. It's distracting. Suddenly the show is a huge success. What do we need? We need to be, we need to be a team. So he makes us a team.

And we started playing softball and we went out and he got us, he got us these gigs. Well, they weren't saying gigs, but I mean, they were unbelievable life experiences playing in front of major league games. And, uh, and it was, it was a stroke of genius. It pulled us together and, you know, and nothing, the new season would start. We wouldn't even be worried about the scripts. It was just what, you know, what, what, where are we playing this year? Which stadiums are we getting it? And it was, uh, we,

It was so much. It was a blast. I remember it well because do you remember who the other great team in L.A. was at the time? Because I do. The Hollywood All-Stars. Yes. Do you remember those guys? They were good. Well, they were really, really good. They were super good, right?

Well, a lot of these people came from New York and, and, you know, there was always a show business softball league in New York and Hollywood for a while had a show business softball league. And I remember playing, we were playing every Sunday at poinsettia park in Hollywood. And we, there was a team called the blokes and the left fielder for the blokes was Alice Cooper.

And my, oh my, what a wonderful treat to be out there, you know, with Alice at the time, you know, he was enjoying a tall course while he was playing left field. Amazing. Alice could hit, Alice could hit a spray hitter.

So I think I read this in the book. Ron, you at one point were coaching Clint's semi-pro team. What was this? No, not semi-pro. It was it was, in fact, kids basketball. They called it Bantam basketball. And Burbank Parks and Recreation Department still has great youth programs. And and and this was a thing where they would actually play on eight foot baskets.

And it was just it was just great. And I was just beginning to play high school basketball at the time and and also knew I wanted to direct.

And, uh, and I, we pulled together this team. I thought it would be fun to coach. And I also kind of knew that, that, you know, if I could handle, you know, eight-year-olds, maybe I could deal later with movie stars. Exactly the same thing as you know. Pretty close. Can be pretty close at times. And, uh, we had a blast. I took it way too seriously. I would get kicked out of games, you know, kind of trying to emulate Bobby Knight and, uh, you know, and, and, and all that kind of stuff. But

But we did. We learned a hell of a lot. And we had this kind of ragtag group, and we actually won our league one year. That's awesome. And I learned this thing that I've used ever since. I identified this joy in kids coming in, being kind of raw, not knowing much about the game, a game I really loved and was really interested in. But I could identify, it would be a disaster at first, but if I could identify one thing that they could,

marginally succeed at, I started to just push them into that position to just do that thing. And slowly their game would evolve. And I know that it's the thing I look for in every crew and, you know, with cast members is, you know, what am I, what are we building on? What can we build around here? In addition to, you know, trying to have a script that means something that works well going in. What is...

Other than, I'm going to ask you about your directing technique, because the only technique I remember is, open your eyes, you fucking 17-year-old idiot. What's wrong with you? No, you were, my memory of it, and I'm saying very hazy, but you were sweet and great and it was fun. But that was at the beginning of your career, beginning of mine. I mean, have you, did you ever...

like pick up anything from George Lucas or I know you had a little bit of a Coppola. They were all milling about that early era of your movement. Or Corman, for example. And Jim Cameron was in the Roger Corman shop. Yeah, I graduated after Jim Cameron was there doing all of that stuff. He came the very next generation. I mean, in the Roger Corman cycles, there was...

So first Francis Coppola, then Bogdanovich and Scorsese, then Jonathan Demme and Alan Arkish and Joe Dante and those guys, then me. And after me was sort of Jim Cameron and on and on.

But, oh, I learned a lot from from Roger, you know, aside from production stuff. And I in in the in the book, you know, in the boys, we I tell some some pretty good Roger Corman stories just about how cheap he was and how difficult he could be. You know, I mean, as as recently as when I was making Rush five, six, seven years ago.

which was a Formula One racing. Yeah, it's great. I love Rush. Thank you. But I mean, I was thinking a lot about the fundamentals that I had learned. Some of them I was sort of guided to learn

through Corman about how to evoke speed, about relationships in action scenes between the cars. And he said then, I said, I'm not sure quite how to stage this. And he said, you're an actor from your short films that I've seen. You're great with actors. Your staging is very natural. They're just characters. You know, treat them as such. You know, those kinds of fundamentals really resonated with me.

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Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount. Terms and conditions apply. I'm so interested in how, what it was like for you, and you write really eloquently about it, you know, and we've all been there, that moment in our career where we're like, what just happened in like the third lead in the show, well, not even third lead, Fonzie becomes, I mean, unless you live through Fonzie, and listen, I'm talking to you, but you, I,

There was nothing bigger. I mean, it was in seismic size size.

Yeah, it was it was really incredible. I mean, it was it was it was kind of Beatlemania, you know, in a way for a while around Henry. And, you know, somehow through all of that. And I write about this in the book as well, because there was some turmoil there and some disappointment for me in terms of the way the studio sort of kind of lost their interest in the straight man and fell in love, you know, as they understandably with this.

you know, phenomenon of a character and which Henry built from the ground up. I mean, from day one, he was inventing and owning that character. And they just said, hey, we know how to write for this guy. And they went for it. And it was everything about it was was appropriate. I was I was annoyed by the way higher ups then sort of dealt with me and responded with me. And I write a lot about that in in in in the book. Your story about Henry

everybody on the crew getting a wallet and then Henry sheepishly goes, well, I got a VCR when VCRs weren't invented yet. I mean, no, no, they were just brand new. They were just, you couldn't get one. You couldn't, you couldn't get one. And they were like, you know,

No, they were $1,500 or something like that. And he got one. You know, it wasn't even the crew. It was just the cast. And we all got wallets. They were nice wallets. They were perfectly fine wallets. But we, you know, everybody was upset about it, this discrepancy, because we were such an ensemble. Yeah, for sure. We prided ourselves on that, including Henry. And yet this thing happened, and Henry kind of sheepishly admitted it, and he certainly wasn't going to give the VCR back. No.

So I kind of became the shop foreman and it fell upon me. I think Tom Bosley put his hand on my shoulder. He said, you're the star of the show. First build. You need to talk to the network.

Thanks, Tom. So I made the call and a guy wound up being, you know, a all-time great television producer. Bob Boyette happened to be the executive, you know, on the other end of this thing. And it was

But I was learning a lesson and I was getting some calluses. And I said, look, we're an ensemble. It's a tenuous situation because of what's going on with Henry from a kind of an ego standpoint around here. But it's going great. The show's working. We love each other. But when the network does something like this.

It's symbolic of something that is not constructive. And I said it more or less that way, even though I was only 20 or 21. I articulated it fairly well. And he was just discombobulated and sort of said, well, I had no idea that Christmas gifts could matter so much. And I said, maybe they shouldn't, but they do. And I said, I'm sending my wallet back.

But I later found out I was the only one who sent the wallet back. Well, the other part of it, though, it comes on the heels of this just blew my mind. Didn't surprise me, but blew my mind that Fred Silverman, the then genius. And I'll tell you my Fred Silverman story in a minute.

decided and wanted and was going to change the name from Happy Days to Fonzie's Happy Days. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was we'd done two seasons. Henry had exploded in the character. And I mean, and it really was that thing you talked about had set in. Yeah.

And, uh, it would take another year or two to really peak, but it was happening. And Fred Silverman moved from CBS over to ABC. And in the second season, good times with Jimmy, JJ Walker and dynamite, hit dynamite had started sort of beating our show. And, uh, and Fred, Fred Silverman basically believed that Fonzie with the woe could beat JJ with the dynamite. And, uh,

But he but he wanted to go all the way to call it call the show Fonzie's Happy Days. And and I I declined to cooperate with that. John, first of all, Ron, this is loosely inspired by your success in American Graffiti. First of all, loosely. But the fact is, well, because the Happy Days pilot actually happened before American Graffiti. The first one. No way. I never knew that. Yeah.

Didn't sell. Didn't sell. I had no idea. Wow. And Marion Ross was in it and Anson Williams, myself, and the rest of the cast was different. And and there was no Fonzie character in that in it. And then the Fonzie character was kind of born out of American Graffiti and and and Big John, the Paula Matt character. By the way, the least interesting, no offense to anybody, the least interesting character in American Graffiti.

Yeah, but he caught everybody's attention at the time because he was cool. But you look back at it now. So again, yes, yes and no. They started looking for a 50s show and Gary Marshall said, well, you have one. You almost picked it up once. Then the lead went and is one of the stars of American Graffiti and we could do it again. And they said, oh, yeah, that's great.

But he's going to have to audition again. So I had to come in and do a test, you know. Okay, fair enough. I got the part. And I related to that a lot because you say the way, and Clint, I'm sure it's true with you, you treat auditions as a competition. And I want to go up against everybody else. Like, I'm like, great, let's do a side-by-side analysis. Like, I love that. And...

You know, and then so I had the same exact my iteration with the West Wing, the same everything you experienced in Happy Days. I experienced with the West Wing with Bartlett being Fonzie. Uh huh. Uh huh. Oh, right. President Bartlett was. Yes. Was supposed to. They literally said he is going to be like the neighbor in Home Improvement.

Was the direct quote. You will hear him. He'll pass through scenes eating a donut. Yeah. Maybe he'll show up here and there. Lo and behold. And I'm first build. Yeah. The show gets on the air only when they cast me. They were not going to put a political show on the air. Right. And Bartlett explodes.

Which is all great. And I'm like you, so happy for him. Martin's like a second dad to me. I grew up with him. I live next door. I was in his pool every summer from the time I was 13. So it's all good in the hood. But then the network in their version of wanting to call it Fonzie's happy days comes to me and says, oh, I know your first bill, but we want you to give it up. And we want you to be we want Martin to take first billing. Wow. Wow.

This is the stuff people don't know about or think about. But you're telling them. We're filling them in. It's crazy. It is like the little indignities that are just hilarious. But they're also like, you go, wait a minute. Yeah. By the way, it is also the kind of stuff that I would say that our dad...

would like if I had said, Dad, should I call him about the wallet? He would have said, no, you've got a great job. Yes. Don't worry about the wallet. Don't worry about the thing. He he as a lifelong day player, guy scrambling, you know, auditioning to the end of his days, unbelievable working to the end of his days, you know, at age 89. Jesus. He just had this logic. And I think Clint and I both really just benefited from that and sort of not

Don't let yourself get caught up in that. That's not what it's about. And somehow if you had a conversation with him, he could help you cut through that clutter. Sometime you wouldn't bother to talk to him and you, and you, and you would get, you would get caught up in that briar patch. We learned a long time ago that,

Dad's get down. And dad was exactly as Ron described right there. He would say, don't worry about it. It doesn't matter about the gift. But the one thing dad was, and he taught Ron and I, was to be absolutely fearless.

When I remember this distinctly, there's, you know, a lot about, a lot about the boys comes when I was, you know, six, seven, eight years old. And I do have memories, but I didn't really, my, my conscience, my consciousness wasn't really there. But I'll tell you what, I remember the whole happy days thing. And dad, there was no doubt Ron was going to stand up to those sons of bitches at the network.

That was a no-go. The thing that they were trying to do, the thing that Silverman was trying to do was an absolute no-go. And, you know, dad had a famous, you know, I'm going to put that son of a bitch on my list.

And Fred Silverman went on dad's list. And it was just, you know, I don't quite know how he got that, you know, as we, as we wrote about the book. And that was one fascinating thing about, about writing this with Ron was, you know, we knew mom and dad intimately well, but in piecing together their backstory, uh,

I mean, they had no business doing what they did. And dad had no business developing the attitudes that he had. He didn't get raised by a great dad. It wasn't abusive or anything. But granddad never treated dad anywhere near the way dad treated us. And dad's attitudes coming into this foreign land, which is show business.

I mean, dad was a hick from Oklahoma. I mean, and he became sophisticated in, and that's an understatement. Dad was, was incredibly nuanced and, and he just had great instincts. But as far as standing up to network executives or people, he knew when to do it. Wasn't a bully. Yeah. Not a loose cannon in any way, shape or form. But part of why we were so well protected was,

It's not because he was intimidating in any overt way, but no one no one would would would cross him. And and and and part two was he knew what the deal was. I mean, he was a professional actor. You know, he had done a lot, but he'd done you know, he'd done enough. And, you know, he not only taught us great fundamentals.

that would allow us to be good when the cameras were rolling. But he also just taught us that simple thing, Rob. You know, we were prepared. We were the most prepared people on the set because we had nothing else to think about. We weren't living grown up live. We were just doing this and being kids. And he set us up to succeed. And, you know, in a way, I hope the book is kind of a parenting book. I think what they did was kind of, was sort of mind blowing. You know, I always say they're,

It was like they were, it was a high wire act over a minefield. And I, you know, I don't know quite why they made such a percentage of high quality decisions, but thank God for it. They really did, you know, they, I met them both briefly because they were in Class, a movie I did.

Oh, yeah. They played Andrew McCarthy's parents. Yes. Right. I remember that. Yeah. At the beginning of the movie. But and by the way, the picture on the cover is the greatest thing ever. That that is insane. Tell me about that photo and where did you find it? What is that? It's insane. It's so great. That was Desilu, what was then called Desilu Kawanga, an old lot. It had been around since the 20s. But but Lucy and Desi owned that lot and two others.

Um, amazing. They, they owned all of that real estate and, and, and were that powerful in Hollywood. And that's where the Andy Griffith show shot along with the Dick Van Dyke show, along with Jack Benny, uh, Hogan's heroes eventually came along that girl, Gomer pile later. I spy shot there.

In this little lot that didn't even have a proper commissary or real parking, whereas Carl Reiner and just all these giants doing that incredible work. But that became kind of our hub. And just one day they decided to do a photo shoot of us. And we walked around and there's some shots of us by cameras and whatnot. But they just got this great shot of us walking in by the studio gate, the one that we always walked into.

from our parking space across the lot. And, you know, occasionally I sneak onto that lot and go to that soundstage. But, oh man, what a, the vibrations that I pick up when I just step on that stage. I'm just flooded. It's, you know, it's emotional. The book was emotional. And I didn't necessarily expect it to be, you know, clear.

Clint and I, we've thought about doing books and we've, and we've, and over the years we've talked a lot about mom and dad and our growing appreciation of them. Cause as we got older and began to understand, of course, you know, you begin to respect them more, especially mom, who I think we underestimated grievously. And I hope the book goes some distance and sort of rectifying that because none of it would have happened without her. She had just so much life spark and vision and intelligence, but

It was actually Tom Hanks who kind of got the ball rolling on this because publishers were coming to me, editors were coming to me and saying, you want to do a book? I had no real interest in doing my story particularly. And one day, Hanks, of course, as you know, Tom's a terrific writer and he was published. And I said, I don't know, do you think I should, am I ignoring something I should do? And he said, yes, but not your whole life. He said, no.

All we care about is how did you do it? What was it like? How did you get through that, that gauntlet? And of course, sitting around on the set, those are the stories he likes to hear about. And so he'd heard a few of the anecdotes. I put that aside, but when dad passed away,

Clint and I, it fell to us, of course, to put together a memorial for him. And mom had died 12 years before. And we were in the process of doing this and finding it pretty cathartic, but also digging deeper. And of course, it was emotional. And I actually shared with Clint, you know, this feeling that I had that Tom had said, you know, your childhoods are interesting.

If we do a book about our childhood, you know, it'll have nostalgia. It'll have that value. Perhaps it'll answer that question. And we've been asked all our lives, well, what was it like? How'd you do it? But it'll also be a chance to write about then. But I would never want to do it on my own. Could we do it together? And, you know, a lot of publishers and editors thought it was kind of a kooky idea that we wanted to share the narrative and bounce it back and forth the way we wrote it.

but we always knew it would work. And people are telling us that it really does. - Well, because you both have such different point of views and you've had different life experiences. And yet, it always blows my mind, you grew up in exactly the same household with exactly the same parents, exactly the same input, and you become, as I am with my brothers, you become different people. We're really different people. You guys are really different people, and yet,

You are, you come from the same time and place. Well, you know, Rob, I, I experienced the seventies completely different than Ron did. I mean, you know, the five year difference was absolutely beautiful. I mean, I, first of all, Ron is a, is, is a wonderful big brother. He's a great film director. He's a better big brother than he is a film director.

And but yet, you know, like he was aware of the Manson murders. He was fully aware when that happened. And I, you know, I guess I remember reading the headlines about smearing blood on the walls, but it didn't compute with me, you know. So my perspective being five years younger, I just did. I had a different chair in the theater. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

By the way, you know, I love you and Austin Powers. You know, that's what we are, shared filmography. It's a giant dick. Hey, you know, Rob, Rob, we share others, not just thrills and chills and Austin Powers. I was in Youngblood.

What? How do I not know this? I did background voices for three days. Amazing. With Peter Markle, the director. Of course. Having played sports, never hockey. I never was on the ice, but had fully experienced

fully just immersed in sports. And I was working for a lady named Barbara Harris at the time, just trying to make that 312 bucks a session, you know, that's what actors made. And I got the chance to work on this, this movie. And, you know, so a lot of that background noise,

When you go, D, go Youngblood, it's you. Well, but the other thing- It could well be. He's in Apocalypse Now. You can hear him. No, what does he say? If you know to listen. I know the movie. I know it backwards and forwards. What scene is it? What is it? I'm dying. It was when Robert Duvall was landing at the beach to go surfing. And there was that kid that was at the helicopter. I don't want to go. I don't want to go. I'm not going. Yes, of course, of course, of course. Yeah, that was me.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. Not on camera. You're the one going, you're the one going, I'm not going. I'm not going. Yeah. Yeah. That was me. And Fred Roos, who had worked with Ron, Fred Roos had been a casting associate on the Andy Griffith show.

No way. He ended up becoming partners, you know, with Francis. Well, he cast me in The Outsiders. Oh, of course he did. Of course he did. Fred, like, he was brilliant. He cast Graffiti, basically. Who is your big break? And I had fans, Bobby Hoffman was earlier than Fred, but Fred Roos gave me my career. Yeah, yeah. Well, he gave a lot of people their career.

It's always blown my mind that he hasn't gotten some sort of there's a document. Maybe I'll make Ron. Maybe that's the documentary we should do. Maybe. Maybe so. But he just never cared about it. I don't think. I mean, how many times you ever seen his name in the paper or his picture? Well, yeah, he was in the room. He was in the room when I walked in and auditioned for Star Wars.

Francis Coppola and Fred Roos was there and Gino Havens was there and George was there. And that's when George turned around in his big chair and said, Commander Bailock, Corbinite Maneuver. Which is your Star Trek episode dialogue. He was an original Star Trek geek. And he...

And he I don't know whether he knew it or not. But I mean, that threw me so far off my audition because here I was trying to get an adult role. And he called the first words out of the director's mouth is a recall from some job I did when I was six. I will never, ever forget it, Rob. In my mind, I go get a fucking life, George.

You're probably not the first person who's thought that. Well, but as it turns out, he's had a pretty good life. So that's also for sure. At least Clint got an audition. I'm in American graffiti. I'm hearing everybody's getting an audition. I throw a couple of hints. Can't even get in the room.

No interest. No, that blows my mind. No, no interest in that. By the way, explain in a weird way, because I've worked with directors. I did like about last night, which I really love that movie. I think it stands up. I'm super proud of it. Yeah. And I'm like, Ed Zwick has done a billion. I'm like, Ed.

Did you lose my phone number? What, what? Hello? Hello? Ed, hello, Ed Zwick. Hello? Whatever. But I think that directors, and you might know this, I think they go, that was a time, that was a place. It was huge. I also think there's something about that. You kind of think, well, if it's a big hit, we should do more of them. And I think some directors go,

That's exactly why we won't be doing more of them. Yeah. Look, when I started directing, which for Roger Corman, the first real professional situation where I had, you know, actors coming in and auditioning,

It was a revelation because I, like a lot of actors would go away, you know, uncertain, hopeful. And then if I didn't get the part pissed off and, or, you know, or self-loathing would set in. Right, right. Yeah. And in one day of having actors come in and sit down and read an audition, I began to recognize that there's so much talent that,

Easily, 80 to 90% of the people who entered the room could play the part.

So it's never, it's never about anything, but what's in, what's in you, the director's mind in terms of your relationship with the script or your sense of maybe what the ensemble is supposed to be that is factoring into this. And it truly is not personal. You know, unless you come in there and somehow you do something really offensive or ridiculous, but people come in, do their thing and no one goes out of there and you say terrible. Yeah. Not right. Not what I'm looking for.

But, you know, it's a town full of talented people and they show up. Or you go, they're right. They could do it. They could do a different iteration of the movie that I'm making. And it'd be equally as good, maybe, but it's not my movie. But it's not my movie. It's not the choice I'm going to make. And I hate the casting process. I hate it. There's very little that I hate about what we do. I still really, really love it. But casting is the one moment where I feel just awful.

I hate putting people through it. And yet it's so vitally important. It's the most important thing, the set of decisions that you have to make. Okay. One of the things I also, I love about talking to you and you and I could talk forever about this is as the business has changed. I remember when the first time a video camera showed up in a casting room and it was like, people couldn't fucking believe it. It was like, how dare they? That's right. So now everybody's on tape. Everybody does everything. And actors now learn that.

how to audition. The phrase self-tape. My son is an actor. He's never in a room with anybody ever. Well, when I'm casting people for a movie, I actually try to throw them curveballs and just see what sort of flexibility they may have, even if they're nailing it from the first moment. I feel like, well, OK, that's that's the default. We have that. What else? Where else could they go? If one of the other actors comes up with something interesting, will they be able to roll with it?

which, because I'm always looking for this, you know, I'm always trying to create the environment where, you know, the actors can excel. That's kind of my fundamental bedrock approach. I feel the same way about all the key contributors, cinematographers, production designers. Can I be true to the story, maximize the story, follow through on my sense of what it ought to be, but create an environment where these people can really contribute?

Fully contribute. You have directed nine different actors who are nominated for Oscars. Don Amici, Diane Wiest, Ed Harris, Kathleen Quinlan, Russell Crowe, Jennifer Connelly, Paul Giamatti, Frank Langella, Glenn Close. So what's the secret sauce? And I'm asking selfishly because I want one. What's the secret sauce for getting an Oscar nomination? I, you know, I think there's a combination of vulnerability and

surprising behavioral choices, which might be the actors or it may just nine times out of 10, it's sort of baked into the character. And then I think it's a kind of a connection that an audience makes with a character. And generally, the ones that really, really resonate with people are the ones where they don't necessarily get the character immediately and are won over. And I think that as they begin to, that character somehow flares

finds his or her way into the audience's sense of the movie themselves. And then I think those are the characters that, you know, that people went aboding for. Because they're surprised by how interesting that performance was. Well, which is why people who, like Cary Grant...

Warren Beatty, Redford. Why they don't have a ton of Oscar nominations because they're working from a different groove. And then you get Daniel Day-Lewis who hits you with an insane accent every time out of the gate. Right. And you never know what to expect. What is going on here? You're always surprised. And by 10 minutes in, you're like, I love this. Right, right. Also, my

Acting, even though it may seem like a solitary thing, acting is really a team. You're really only as good as the people that light you and the director that's giving you that encouragement. Down to everything, down to the food, down to the wardrobe. At times I have to become just myself and locked in and put on blinders on. But also the community around a set.

can really create magic. It's not just me. Listen, I'm just part of a team. I've always felt that. Well, maybe I didn't feel it when I was little, but I just felt that I do feel that it takes a team because one thing I heard Lowell Gantz say one time about, and Lowell Gantz is close friends with Ron, and I know Lowell, and he's a great dude. You wrote on Happy Days, but also Night Shift and Splash. One of the great comedy writers of all time. Lowell,

in talking about a league of their own, which is what him and Babalu wrote a league of their own is that the movie gods came down and kiss that movie.

It wasn't just the script. It wasn't just the direction. It was a combination. It was Rosie O'Donnell's star was shooting at just the right time. They landed Madonna. The music worked. All of these elements have to come to give what we do that color and that texture to make it really good. And it also matters when projects...

you know, are received by the public. You know, what's their frame of mind? What's come out recently? You know, what's their frame of reference for this project? And, you know, one year a thing might feel special and just what everybody sort of needs.

to feed their soul or intellect or to escape to. Another year, it might feel like old news or the wrong message or tone-deaf. Even the time of the year in which a movie is released, although that's changing now in this century. But Ron, Cinderella Man. Cinderella Man is a damn fine picture. And the studio decided to release it in the summer. And you guys got just...

boat raced by, oh, what was the movie? Oh, yes. Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Great movie. Yeah, great movie. Great movie. It boat raced Cinderella Man. And if Cinderella Man would have been released in the fall, it may have been a whole completely different ballgame. Yeah, we'll never know.

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Reese's peanut butter cups are the greatest, but let me play devil's advocate here. Let's see. So, no, that's a good thing. That's definitely not a problem. Reese's, you did it. You stumped this charming devil. Okay, so listen, you've got to be a Kubrick fan. Who isn't? Right. You made Apollo 13.

Did Kubrick stage the moon landing, Ron? Let's just really get down to it. You know, I had a chance to visit with Kubrick when they were making Eyes Wide Shut. Oh, wow. I came by to visit because I had worked with Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman and Far and Away. Yep. And I wasn't allowed to go on the set, but I hung around in Tom's trailer and at a certain point,

the great Stanley Kubrick came out to talk to me because he wanted to know how we shot the weightless scenes. What was it really like to fly on the Vomit Comet? He really wanted to understand what that process had been because he said it was so awkward for us on 2001 with the wires and so forth. So that's what he really wanted to know about. And

And I didn't get any sense that he was claiming any ownership for having staged the moon landing. It would have been so easy, Ron. What a missed opportunity for you. All you need to say is, you know, I understand the wires must have been hard on 2001. But the moon landing, when you faked that, did you feel that it would have been so... And just see if he twitched or blinked or anything. Yeah, just that easy. My father's father, Ingle Beckenholt...

believed it was staged. No, never believed that happened. But how could he? Because before, before he, because he was old enough to remember the first flight. Or he probably, he remembers stage coaches. He did. No, yeah, exactly. 100%. And cars, you know, new cars. It was a new idea. And now they're flying and it's only 60 some years later.

And now they're saying they went to the moon? Impossible. Hold on a second. I saw a report on the internet a few years ago, because I like to investigate those things. Yeah, me too. I'm so into it. This report said that the moon landing was staged at Ivan Tor Studios down there where we shot Gentle Ben. And in fact, and this is a report on the internet that Ron and I were up in the rafters.

of Ivan Torres Studios as they were filming the moon landing. And I just have to disclose that I wasn't there. God damn it. If I was there, I had been abducted by aliens and taken there because I have no recollection. I know, listen, working on Apollo 13 was probably the joy of my life. And I know exactly where I was the moment that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. Me too. I was at Bob Totten's house.

I was at Bob Totten's house and it was a moment I'll never forget. And so let, and we know people that flew to the moon and Rob, if they really were going to make that kind of conspiracy, Jesus, it would be a hell of a conspiracy because all the people that I know that worked on the space program, they said, no, they, we really went. And they, and they, and they explained to us how they explained to me how they did it. And it made sense.

When they explained it, it really made sense. My favorite Apollo 13 movie story is our great, mutual, dear, departed, wonderful Bill Paxton. Yes, I think the last time I saw you was actually in person, was at his memorial, where you were brilliant, and you did a brilliant Bill Paxton impersonation, by the way. Oh, thank you. Well, one of my favorite things was watching him on Chez Leno promote, I think I might have said this at the memorial, where he was promoting...

Apollo 13, as he says, during the trophy run, which is how he describes the lead up.

to the Academy Awards, which I think he stole from Hanks. I think Hanks coined the phrase trophy run. Bill was the great, well, what a spirit, as you know, you guys were close friends, but we were shooting this waitlist stuff. And this was in an airplane called the KC-135, where they do parabolas, which are, you know, sort of like roller coaster, like going over the top and then diving back down. So the pilot climbs,

And then he or she, because we had one of the pilots was a woman, they dive down and they actually allow a ping pong ball to rise up and they continue to fly the plane so that the ping pong ball floats. That's how they keep track of it. And then they pull and everything in the plane floats. You're really free falling. But of course, there's no atmosphere around here. You're surrounded by the fuselage.

So it's like it emulates weightlessness just about as closely as they can possibly do it. And they use it for training and whatnot. And we decided that if we bolted our sets down, we could give the illusion of weightlessness in the most realistic way. This is before computer generated images could do it really well. But globules of water would float around just as they would in the vacuum of space. And so anyway.

It makes you sick. It's called the vomit comet. The vomit comet. And we would take a cocktail provided to us by NASA doctors. It was a scopalamine, which is for motion sickness, and a half a dexedrine to keep you awake because that stuff will knock you out. Wow. And that was keeping us from getting sick. But one time...

We were shooting. We had two cameras going all the time. And the actors were weightless, including Bill. And the camera operator lost it. And projectile vomited all over Bill. Oh, my God. And so we then hit the ground and we pulled out. And when you hit the ground, you start pulling two and a half or three Gs. So you're sort of pressed to the ground. And I'm seeing Bill laying there pressed with like vomit on his face.

And then he started to float up as the plane started to climb again and go back over. And he floated over to me and he said, this is fucking the greatest dude.

He hurled all over me. Give me a towel or something, Howard. And I threw him a towel, floated a towel over to him. He wiped it off and he was ready for the next take. That's my man. He turned to Jay Leno and Jay said, Apollo 13, it's got a lot of heat for the Oscar. He said, Jay, it's gonna win. I mean, it is called the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

Well, it turned out he wasn't quite right about that. But we were nominated and Braveheart won. Brian Grazer and I were sitting there next to Jim Lovell. Oh my God. And we were the front runners. We were supposed to win and it didn't happen. And for a second, we were just stunned. And Jim Lovell put his hand on, he was sitting next to Brian, put his hand on Brian's shoulder and said,

You know, Brian, I never made it to the moon either.

- Wow. - And it was, you know, maybe not quite as good a moment as actually getting the statue, but it was pretty memorable. - Before we finish, I wanna talk about your relationship with Brian, who I adore, and most people do. - Yeah, great guy. - Great guy. How did you get so lucky to find the yin to your yang? You guys have accomplished so much together, and all of it's great. - Well, thank you, thank you. It's, well, don't look too close, but we've had a good batting average. You know,

I had other business partners and I had a company, so had Brian. And when we discovered each other, you know, it was a revelation to me. Brian reminded me in some ways of a really great producer from Happy Days, a guy named Tom Miller, who later partnered up with Bob Boyatt and was, you know, the list of shows were, you know, incredible. Yeah.

But Brian had something else. Now, I had directed television movies. I was dedicated to this proposition, but I could not make the transition to studio features.

And the things I was being offered were, you know, not going to be career advancers, in my opinion, nor were they the kinds of films that I wanted to invest, you know, a year of my life in making. Right. And I met Brian and he had a great idea for a movie. This one doesn't get made, but it was fascinating. We started to work on it. We took it around. We got quality meetings. We came close.

Then he had another idea. It was Night Shift. He got those doors open, and lo and behold, we got Gans and Mandel from Happy Days, you know, a little Gans, to write. And we got that movie made against all odds. And I saw a guy who could not only really cleverly and adroitly navigate the Hollywood system, he could knock down those doors while he would just get them to open them. He didn't have to knock them down. He just knew how to do it. And, but...

He was creative and could have that conversation in a meaningful way. And I just realized this guy just innately understands every facet of this. He's got a great marketing background.

He knows what the executives are looking for, but he also knows a good idea versus against, you know, versus a bad one. And he knows how to talk to me as a potential director. Um, and we did that movie. Then we did splash, which was incredibly unlikely that that would have ever gone. He was heroic in terms of getting that movie going again, his idea. And out of all, I was just forged a friendship first. Um,

and a collaboration that was born of two very different guys. We've always been the odd couple. Yes. And yet the thing we align on is a real excitement for telling stories. And when we agree, that's when our batting average is at its highest. But we always support one another, no matter what. We'll be honest, but if one loves a thing and the other one doesn't quite get it, that's okay. And

And will you sometimes make, and I'm not going to ask you the name of the names of them, but do you sometimes make those projects where you're like, I don't see it, man. And he goes, well, I really do or vice versa. Yeah, absolutely. And some of them have worked and some of them haven't. But the ones that just about always work, you know, I'd say with a kind of a, yeah.

eight or nine out of 10 kind of ratio success are the ones where we're both just pumped and we just get it. But now Imagine Entertainment is a different kind of company, as you know. I mean, it's growing, it's got a documentary division, a kids and family division. It's much less bespoke Ron and Brian work. It still supports that and provides us that opportunity, but it's much more about sharing what we know and what we can achieve for other storytellers and their voices

And that's been just a thrilling transition in the last five years or so, as Imagine has kind of moved into, you know, sort of what we call Imagine 3.0. Yeah, you know, I'll tell you, Brian, my perspective watching Ron launch has been really beautiful. It really has. And, you know, Brian, he...

He doesn't waste a lot of time. He'll take his time, but he doesn't waste time. And the most beautiful thing I ever heard is when he coined the term shit burger. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, that's a shit burger. That means he doesn't really want to work on that anymore. That's a shit burger. And you know what, Rob, if you've been in the business. Oh, there's a lot of them. You know exactly what he's talking about.

The worst thing about a shit burger is when you first start eating it, sometimes you think it's fucking filet mignon. That's right. Yes. And it certainly looks great there in between that bun. Doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And then you just get a little garnish. A little garnish? You never know. Guys, this has been great. I urge everybody to read the book. Get the book, The Boys. It's just like you said, I love the fatherhood. I love the love story of your parents. Yeah.

I love the brother connection. And it's funny, as headline grabbing and juicy as all of the, you know, Gentle Ben, Happy Days, kid actor stuff is, and it is, it's that other stuff that we can all relate to that I really think makes the book so special. It's fantastic. Well, thank you. Yeah, no, thanks, Rob. I appreciate that. You know, listen, we didn't write it to finish second. That's right. I know.

I know. I like I like like I liked also picking up how in the perfect way, how competitive like, you know, as you guys take your work and stuff, because I'm the same. I think that's a I just I just don't think you survive because people ask me, well, how do you you know, how are you doing it for 40 years? How do you do it? And like you guys and you got it. I think it's be prepared.

Right. Work your fucking ass off. Right. Don't be a jerk at all ever. But also when it's time to say, you're not calling this Fonzie's happy days. Right. Yeah. It's time, you gotta stand up. Yeah. You have to have that strength and you know, my daughter Bryce is acting and directing, has been now for close to 20 years. And the directing is more recent than that. But you know,

I saw her enter the industry and very early on, I realized, well, I wouldn't necessarily predict stardom for anyone because that's always a bit of a fluke. But I just recognized that she had the endurance and she had the sense of self that would allow her to be a kind of warrior. You have to love this enough. This is the thing that my dad used to always say about the business and mom, both of them.

Because my mom was a good actress and a successful actress later in her life when she went back into it as a character actress. But you used to say, you don't have to do this. You only should do it if you love it. It's great you're learning this as a kid. That's fantastic. But you can apply what you're learning to anything.

And that's why I've been so supportive of you doing it. But you have to find the thing you love. I did. And it's the only good thing my father ever said to me was, Harold, you better find something you love and learn how to do it because you ain't never going to make a farmer. And and and and but he but he heard that and that empowered him to chase, you know, an implausible dream.

But he did it. He committed and he and he succeeded, changed the course of our family along with our mom and and imbued us with that same sense of be there if you want to be there. Don't do it because they'll hire you. Don't be there because you can get the gig. Don't do it for the money. That's wrong. You know, be a businessman once you're in the game. Sure. But, you know, you have to be there because you love it and you respect it and you respect audiences. And without that,

sense of service almost to a process and idea of telling stories, you know, you really should move over. You should move over and let somebody who does have that passion take your spot.

100 percent. And by the way, I hear Bryce is a great director. Chris Pratt just thinks she's the cat's meow. Oh, oh, she loves Chris. And and and Chris Bryce has been directing on Mandalorian and doing docs and other things as well. I'm really happy for her. She's she just she loves it. And again, she loves it for all the right reasons. And I knew that when I saw her in school plays. Really? She would run to rehearsal.

It wasn't about the flowers on the opening night. Yes. You know, it wasn't about that. She ran to rehearsal and was a little bummed when rehearsal was over each night. That's when I felt like, well, you know, and then I saw her act and I thought, well, you know, it's a little bit like watching somebody who could go straight to the NBA and

Wow. Play varsity ball in high school. You know, I feel the same way about her as a director. I got an opportunity to be directed by her. She did a piece of a Lifetime TV movie and she hired me to come and be part of this. It was a it took place at a mental institution and I was one of the clients. Yeah.

And I watched her direct and I called Ron that night and I was so proud. And I told Ron, I go, you know, bud, you should be really proud because your daughter has it. And the amazing thing about Bryce is she her mannerisms on the set. So mirrored Ron.

Really? Oh, the movements, the going from the video village to talk to the actors and talk to the cinematographer. And one thing that she did, she would jump out of her chair at video village and go and talk to the director. And much like what Ron does, she would whisper in the actor's ear to give one last little bit of notes and just talk quietly. Except she did one thing that Ron doesn't do. And that...

She plays with the actor's hair. Amazing. I could go on and on with you guys. This was truly great. Ron and Clint, I hope we run into each other in person soon, one of these days. It'd be really fun to catch up. Yeah, likewise, Rob. Great to see you again, even if only via Zoom. Take care. That was one of my favorite interviews right there. You were here for it. Let the word go forth from this time and place.

that we just had one of the great podcasts, in my humble opinion. There's a lot to unpack there if you are listening carefully. If you're a father, if you're a brother, if you want to be an actor, if you want to be a director, if you want to be a survivor, or if you're interested in the vomit comet, you know, either way, there was a lot there. We ticked a lot of boxes. I see the light is flashing on the answering machine here in the studio. That is the lowdown line. Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line.

where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

My name is Len, and I'm from Venezuela, but I live in Florida. And my question is about drinking. I know you started drinking a long time ago, and I'm in the process, and I would like to know if you can recommend a group. I feel like I'm ready. My body is ready. My mind is ready, but I cannot picture anything.

I can't picture socializing without it. And I want to know if you can help in any way, like a link, a community, anything will help. Thank you. Wow, what a great call. Thank you so much for that question. So brave and makes you feel all good inside. Yeah, first of all, when I decided to stop drinking, I could not imagine life

socializing. I was like, I like, for example, I love baseball. And I remember thinking, well, I'll never, I'm obviously never going to a baseball game again because why would anybody go to a baseball game if they can't drink a beer? What's the point? And I remember thinking, well, I'm never going to celebrate new year's again. What's the point? And I remember thinking, well, I'm never going to have fun at the 4th of July again. And, um, and, and listen, for the first year, I just did other things. Like I didn't put pressure on myself. Um,

To enjoy those things in the way I did drinking, I found I would do something else fun on that during that time. And I got to be honest, that lasted for me. I don't even think it lasted a year. I think literally within the first year, I was like, fuck it. I don't I don't need to drink for this because you've said you've already said the key thing. You think you're ready.

And when you're ready, you're ready. You know, you can't be ready for your, because your boyfriend wants you to do it or your dad thinks you should stop drinking or you got a DWI and you're worried about your license and none of that work. Nobody cares. That isn't going to ever, ever, ever, ever do it. You have to be ready and you, you led with that. So congrats. And, you know, look, um,

You know, obviously a lot of people have been helped with Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm a big believer in that. You can, there's going to be, you can just dial, you know, information in your community for the AA hotline and they will provide you with meetings.

And, uh, it's, it's a, it's a great fellowship. Um, and I would recommend that as the first step and, uh, and, and see if you feel at home, my guess is you're going to be. And, uh, congratulations. Uh, it's a, it's a great choice and it's a great journey. Um, I would, I would, I would, it's the best thing I ever did by far. And I have more fun today than I ever had in the days when I was drinking and drugging and doing all this stuff. And, and by the way, I had a lot of fun doing that.

And I'd still be doing it if it worked for me. But it stopped. So, so did I. All right. Thank you. That was great. Great call. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week. Don't forget to give us a nice review, five-star review. If you're so inclined on Apple, that helps all the peeps that work on the show. And we appreciate it greatly. I will see you next week on Literally.

You have been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Our talent bookers are Gina Batista, Paula Davis, and Britt Kahn. And music is by Deventory Bryant.

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