David Duchovny: Malibu Bicycle Cops
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Hello. There he is.

You want to talk about Malibu bicycle cops? Yes. I'm telling you, we're missing... Who wouldn't want to watch you and I as Malibu bicycle cops? I could get you a list of who doesn't want to watch that, but... Today we have the great David Ducubny. Did I just say Ducubny? We have the great David Ducubny!

I didn't. I said Duchovny. David Duchovny, double D. That's why he has the great nickname, Double D, because his name's too fucking hard to say. One of my favorite people. Known him a long, long time. He is for sure the most well-read, highly educated actor I've ever known. And people can talk about his amazing accomplishments, whether it's

Ladies and gentlemen, David Duchovny.

How are you? I'm good, man. I'm really good. You look great as always. You always look so... You're my hero. You're, what, one year ahead of me, maybe? You're only one year older than me. Yeah, I'll be 60 in August.

Holy fuck. Is that more than one year earlier? Yeah. I mean, not by much. It's appreciable, but not much. I'm 57, but there's something about 60. I feel like I want to cut this part out of the show, actually. Kidding. Because I don't like to remind people that

You and I are like 60-year-old men. I know. But I'm also kind of proud of it. Because, listen. It is. I don't know about you. Are you happy to be holding the flag for the 60-year-old demo? Because that's coveted. Well, they have money. We know that. I don't know. It's so odd to think of myself that way. Because, you know, I just always felt like that's fucking old, right? Yes. I just don't feel...

I mean, I certainly feel older than I have physically, you know, but I don't feel beat to shit or anything like that. And mentally and creatively, I just feel like, you know, now is when I'm at my most energetic. So it's just weird. I think people have...

I think everybody has their own pace in life, you know, and I feel like I hit my pace a little later and I feel like I'm still hitting it. So I don't, you know, 60s, it's a big number and it's embarrassing in a way. I don't know why we're meant to be embarrassed about our ages in this country or in this business, but I think we are. Oh, I got a couple reasons why, if you really want to know.

I mean, all you got to do is turn on the radio. Yeah. Radio. That shows you I'm old. I said the word radio just now. Yeah. That's how people communicate with radios. Yeah. Turn on the radio, watch TV and go to a movie and see if they're interested at all in what the fuck you think. No. Well, I know that. You'll see very quickly that they aren't. I know that. But I think the trick is you have to remain interested in what you think, you know, and not adjust. Right.

what you think or how you think. I mean, obviously you want to remain open. You want to remain open to ideas. You want to remain open to what is happening. But, you know, if you start trying to think somebody else's thoughts, I think you're fucked immediately. Well, listen, you're a huge music fan and an accomplished musician now. And I want to talk about that because I remember when you were learning how to play the guitar on Californication. Yeah. So I want to get into that. But like, how do you reconcile music?

All the great songs, and I know what you loved in music, because, again, we're of the same age. Right. And how do you not turn into the angry old man yelling at the clouds meme when you listen to a lot of what's going on in music now? Well, I think I just remember back to what my parents would say about, well, everybody loved the Beatles, but what they'd say about the Stones or Zeppelin, you know?

And, you know, they didn't get it. And I don't get the music. I don't get the music that sells now. I know that I'm kind of aged out of it just because emotionally, you know, music is so important emotionally when you're a teenager. I mean, it's like the soundtrack of your life and it remains that way. I'm sure you you hear give me a song and you have that feeling. What's the song?

Oh, afternoon delight. Let's go. Well, let's not actually go too deeply into that. But they're having their memories. They're having their first experiences. They're having their, you know, the intensity of their young lives. And the soundtrack is happening. And there is no...

There's no way to really ever appreciate the depth of our attachment to the music when we're young. And it has nothing to do with whether it's good or bad. It's just the fact that it was on the radio or whatever when we were kids. Anything could be playing on the radio. Absolute dreck.

But if it's playing on the radio, that song is etched in stone in the Parthenon. I would think so. I mean, but think about, like, the... Look, again, because we're the same age, we can have this frank conversation. Queen sucked when I was a teenager. People made fun of Queen, you know? But now...

I can listen to a Queen song and I'm transported back and not because of the movie, but I'm transported back to that time and have a kind of a fondness for it. Same with Journey.

Yes. Remember, they were they were a joke. And now we just start to weep when we hear them. So that's that's like a transformation that happens musically over time. If if they if the music becomes kind of encoded in our our DNA in that way when we're young. So I can't speak to, you know, people's attachment to the music that they hear now because, you know, I'm all for it.

It's just I've already my space has been taken up. You know, my my musical memory space has been taken up. It's not that I can't appreciate it. It's just never going to mean what Afternoon Delights means to you. Yeah. I mean, you know, the minute you hear the Starland vocal. Yeah.

just go but did and then they did they didn't ruin it by putting in an anchorman for you was that sacrilegious did you did you dislike that how dare you how dare you i got horny for robin in the fourth grade around the old campsite or whatever the hell was going on what was happening yeah that's your memory that's all yours rob thank you um what uh

Is there a live album to be had from you soon? I hear. No, no, not a live or new album. We were, we were just about finishing up when, uh, when COVID, uh, the quarantine, uh, hit. So, uh, we're about, you know, 10, 15% away from, from, uh, getting that done. And, uh, you know, whenever we're allowed back into the studio for four or five people in the same room, we'll be able to finish it up. How much are you writing of, of, uh, of songs?

Generally, I will come up with like a chord progression and a melody and the lyrics, and then I'll give it to the band and they'll make it something else. Recently, though... By the way, just stop, stop, stop right there. Did you ever think in your career...

That phrase you just said would come out of your mouth. Generally, I come up with a chord progression and then I just give it to the band. Did you ever think you'd be saying that? No, no, no. I mean, I was never a musician and certainly I've never been a singer. I mean, singing is difficult for me. It's been something that I've had to...

really learn and work on so that I don't embarrass myself. So it's really the whole idea of me coming up with a melody is outrageous, aside from the fact that I have people that will work on it with me. But in the last album, the band has begun to write, you know, bring more of their original stuff to me, maybe a tune that I'll put lyrics on. So it's been more of a collaborative thing.

Is my memory correct that on Californication you were early on in this process or had you been kind of dabbling with it before we were working on the show together? That was super early on because I had just decided that I was going to learn how to play guitar, and you'll appreciate this, in true music.

cheap, manipulative actor fashion, I went to Tom Kapanos and I said, wouldn't it be great if Hank just started taking guitar lessons? Because then I knew that I could get free guitar lessons. So that's... Amazing. That's so good. Yeah. So when you started...

Because I've dabbled in guitar, and I really do mean dabbled. I can play six chords, which is all you need to have fun, obviously. Yeah, that's right. And I go through it, and I stop, and I get into it, and I stop. What level were you at when you said, I really want to learn how to play this? You were able to fuck around a little bit previously, right? Or no? No, no, no. I really started from scratch there. But it was because I never really thought that I would...

you know, make music in any real way. I mean, I really just wanted to know the six chords that you know and to be able to sit in my room and strum along with songs that I liked, like, you know, the Starland Vocal Band. So that's all I ever... That was my motivation. You know, you have so much time in your trailer as an actor, I thought, well, at least I'll be strumming a guitar or whatever. And at some point, after I learned enough chords, I started to see...

you know repetitions and kind of simplicities and rock and roll music which is what i really liked and then i thought well fuck it you know i can i'll i'll try and make some tunes i'll you know i started hearing melodies which i didn't think i would do because i couldn't necessarily sing them but i could hear them and then um you know i just started writing from there you um

are famously i'm gonna talk about you like you're not there like you're not there like i don't know here but you know actors are not educated well let me jump in let me jump in i think i think i would modify that and say that intelligence is not necessarily something that actors are asked to exercise that often it's not something that you're going to get applauded for as an actor

That's for sure. So, you know, I've always said to people, I mean, who want to pigeonhole a creative person, you know, why does an actor think that they can make music? Why does an actor think they can write? You know, it's so funny to me that people will...

We'll try and pigeonhole somebody's creative expression. And I say this without ever comparing myself to the person. But I mean, obviously, Shakespeare was an actor, right? I mean, there's no... That was his main job. And so we don't have a better writer in our language, and we never will.

And he was a fucking actor. So take that. And you are, you know, I knew you went to Princeton and I knew you went to Yale. But you got your master's at Yale, correct? A little more. I was in the Ph.D. program, so I didn't get a Ph.D., but I went further than a master's. I have what's called an ABD, which is an all-butt dissertation. So I sat my orals, which was a freaky experience. Yeah.

Well, I know my version of oral has something to do with the Starland vocal pattern. So how close are you to finish, finish, finishing that amazing book? Are you ever going to go back and be like a six-year-old sitting in the class to finish? Yeah, so close. Only like a 400-page book of literary criticism, which is...

which I would never be able to focus on and do at this point in my life. I disagree. I disagree. I think you'd knock that off, dude. Well, I had a topic which was actually kind of prophetic in a weird way. I never wrote anything. Maybe I wrote an introduction to my dissertation. But when you sit your orals, which are

You have like 12 categories of English literature to be responsible. You have to be responsible for 10 of them. So basically, you are responsible for everything ever written, except for two areas where you've decided to punt and say, fuck Chaucer or, you know, Old English. I'm going to just say I don't know any old things. And then you sit in a room with people whose specialities are

thin, right? But deep. So they know everything about one category that they're going to ask you of 10. So basically, you spend a year studying for this two-hour exam, oral exam. Oh my God. And all you do is just try to read everything or read about everything that you've never read before so that you can go in and maybe hope

to not be exposed as the fraud that you really are. And they, it's just not, it's not a possible kind of an expectation to go in with, but you're told that, you know, if, when you get asked the question, just keep talking, you know, just keep talking. Cause you want, you're basically trying to run the clock out because everybody there's 10, there's 10 subjects. So everybody gets, you know, four or five minutes. So if you can like just babble on,

And try and stay away from the next question, which might sink you. You know, answer the question you want to, that you wished was asked, and then keep answering it. That seems like the most high pressure situation. I mean, I've lived through my son taking the bar and any past, thank God, first time. But this sounds like, the pressure of that, I can't even imagine it. I remember walking, it was in New Haven, and it was the wintertime.

I guess it was right around Christmas time. And I remember walking in the snow from my apartment to the to the meeting room in the English department. And I felt like my head was a blimp. I felt like my head. I felt like in Ghostbusters. I felt like the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man walking through the snow because my head was just crammed full of everything that I could think of.

And part of the last question in the orals is, what is your dissertation on? Because if you pass your orals, then you're allowed to go and write your dissertation. So I did have a subject, and I never wrote the book. What was your subject? It was called Magic and Technology in Contemporary American Fiction and Prose and Poetry.

Good God. Yeah, good God, right? Too bad. Too bad that was never written. But it was actually a pretty interesting topic, which was, I'll try to be concise for you. The idea was like, in the past, magic was like a primitive technology. You know, it was like, I could cast a spell on you and make you fly. Well, now I have airplanes, whatever, you know, it was like,

That's how amazing technological things of the present used to happen, and it was magic. And there used to be like, there was white magic and black magic, or good magic and black magic, and bad magic. And there were like moral fields to magic, like Dr. Faustus, there was a limit. There was a rightness or a wrongness to when magic can be used and how should it be used and for what purposes.

And technology is like a modern magic, and yet we didn't have technology

a moral valence put upon it. You know, technology was like, hey, if we can go to the moon, we should go to the moon. Hey, if we make an atom bomb, we're going to drop it. Hey, you know, right. Technology is always used. So what's the, so these writers that I was addressing was to, were trying to kind of infuse the discussion of technology with a sense of magic, a sense of, hey, don't go there or don't, or there's a moral question about whether we use this thing or not.

It was an interesting idea. That's way ahead of its time. Yeah. And then, you know, like the X-Files happens and I'm like, wow, this is, you know, kind of like I probably would have referenced this fucking show in my dissertation had I. 100 percent. Hold that thought. We'll be right back.

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When you did X-Files, did it make you... Because I think conspiracy theorists and all of that stuff, which, by the way, I love me a good conspiracy theory. You do? I do. It's so dangerous. It's so dangerous? It's so dangerous. Listen, I'm hearing this from...

If I should listen to anybody about conspiracy theories, it should be you. I know. It's very sad that I find myself in this position. Can you tell me why you think it's dangerous? Long pause, shakes his head. I think mostly conspiracies, I mean, conspiracies are great drama, yeah. But mostly conspiracies in real life, you know, they're looking for simple answers to complicated questions. And a conspiracy...

It conveniently finds a bad man or a couple of bad men who have decided to perpetrate some evil upon the world. And I don't think that's how it happens usually. Yeah. I, by the way, in full disclaimer, my interest in conspiracy theories is because they're so fucking entertaining. That's true. And so entertaining. That's absolutely true. And seductive. And seductive. Yeah.

But when you did X-Files, did you come into it with that worldview or was it shaped by going down that rabbit hole? I just had this vision of you at like Comic-Con. Yeah. And you're, you know, signing your sunglasses or whatever the hell you're doing. Right. And every conspiracy theorist in the world is asking you to go, you know, to Roswell to look for the alien bodies or whatever. Right, right.

Did that happen? Yeah, that happened. I imagine much. That happened. You know, there was a, you know, have you heard about like the lizard people? Have you heard about that thing? I don't know if that's. Oh, have I heard about them? I believe they're called reptilians, David. Right. So there were a couple of years there where people were asking me about lizard people and I had no clue.

that it was a big thing. And I would just kind of scoff at them. Like, you know, I'd be signing somebody's thing and they'd say, oh, so-and-so's a reptilian or lizard. I'd be like, yeah, uh,

Why is he calling that guy a lizard or a reptile? I don't get it. And so this kind of thing would happen to me over and over where there'd be like a conspiracy du jour that I wasn't hip to. And people would think that I was because I played Mulder. And then I, you know, I just, it would just kind of go over my head. Yeah. That, that's a very funny notion. Like,

Queen Elizabeth, reptilian. Yeah, exactly. All of the royal family. Why do you think they live so long? It happened all the time. And I go, what the fuck is wrong with people? Lizard? Why lizard? I didn't know. It didn't make any sense to me. It happened to me once. I was doing some kind of Reddit thing as well. And this is a different, this is not like science fiction, but like I was doing a Reddit question answer and somebody asked me, you know, what do you think of Pepe? Pepe the Frog. Oh, yeah.

And this was like 2015. I was in like, I see the little drawing of the frog and I go, he's cute. Right. Wrong answer.

Yeah, wrong answer. But I didn't know, right? So it's like, it's this kind of thing. Well, but you're making a really good argument right now. And I'm feeling very good about myself because the argument is you've got to kind of scour the dark recesses of everything. So you have a little bit of knowledge about everything. Like you have deep knowledge. I have, my knowledge is a mile wide,

Mile, mile wide, miles wide, but it's like literally razor thin. But you're not going to fuck me up with Pepe or the lizard people. You've got a good surface area. Or like the okay, you know, like you can't do the okay anymore. Can't do okay anymore. Right. Who knew? You knew, right? That's what you're saying. I did know. Right. I did know. But I can't tell you what Chaucer was writing about. Right. Right.

I'm not sure I can either, but I could fake it. I think I had to read Chaucer at one point in my very brief educational career, and I just hated it. It's, I guess. Is that the Canterbury Tales? Yes, it is. You got that? What? Get them up. That's your inch deep. That's, oh, there you go.

It's like motherfucking jazz. California-cation. Eddie Nero, honestly, Eddie Nero was... Honestly, I could have played and would have... I could play that character every second of every day because it gives you such latitude to go berserk. Well, I'll tell you what. What you brought to Eddie that is so quintessentially part of what you bring is there was a real...

I don't know how to say it without sounding corny, but there was just a real love of life in the guy. There was a real joie de vivre, whatever. You know, there was just like, he's saying these nonsensical things. He's a nonsensical person, but his love is real. Like his, his passion is so crazily not commensurate with what he's talking about. You just love him. You know what I mean? It's like,

He's an enthusiast is what I'm saying. And you're able to do that as an actor. You're really able to kind of display an enthusiasm, which is really kind of beautiful and winning in many ways. Comedically, mostly in your comedic work. I see you do it, but I really appreciate it. Thank you.

And that's what I think makes that character work for me is his kind of, aside from the fact that he's completely unfiltered, what you're saying is so much fun to, and for me playing Hank, you know, the unfiltered quality was a lot of fun too until I came across like somebody more unfiltered, you know, and then it was like,

Now I'm playing the straight guy, which is kind of fun, too, to watch him doing that. Also, you guys gave me a chant to my first man-on-man kiss. And if you'd made a list of who I might kiss in my career man-on-man, I'm not sure Evan Handler would even be on the list. But I'm glad he was because it was quite romantic. I know. I know. Evan is so great on that show and such a good actor.

And such an interesting cat. We were on West Wing together. Oh, right. I think he did two seasons of West Wing, and I loved him on that, but didn't have any fantasies of kissing him, frankly, when I was working on West Wing. But, you know, you never know where life's going to take you. Well, he was a friend, and all of a sudden he was, you know, out of the friend zone for you. Yeah.

And you made a move on him. And it was shot, you guys shot it like the kiss from... I don't think I directed that one. Montgomery Clift kisses Elizabeth Taylor in A Place in the Sun. Remind me, why did you kiss him? I don't remember that. Was I not there? I...

You were sitting right there. I was sitting there. It didn't make an impression on you, but it was in that same set. I think it was the time when I kissed him and then told him that I thought we should go kill someone. Oh, it's just so horrible. So funny. You just don't get a chance to... I mean, when you get to play a character that you can justify anything. Right. It's so freeing, and it makes you... It's just...

It just makes being, you know, I guess there are certain actors always get to wear prosthetics and long noses and crazy makeups. And that's why they love it so much because they're not bound by playing anything actually real, right?

through and through that's right which is its own level of something we all know those actors and they're out there and they're great right but they're basically the way i look at it they have a fucking free shot on goal every day they show up on the set because they're not bound by anything that we would recognize is actual humanity that's right that's absolutely right

It's like, it's like motherfucking jazz. They're playing. Yeah. You know, you want to go. How I, I read my other, my other big recollection of Californication was how disconcerting it was to come into a set at five in the morning and it'd be like full of fake martinis and, and girls with nothing on running around, uh,

And like, listen, I'm all, who doesn't, who among us doesn't love that? But like at five o'clock on a Monday morning, I mean, I think I'd been coming off of a show where my Monday mornings were me and Calista Flockhart in a bed reading kindergarten rhymes to our kids. And then I moved over to Californication and it was like, I remember talking to the prop person who wanted to know what kind of dildo I wanted in the scene. And I was like, this is definitely a different world. That's not a world that I remember anymore.

Nobody ever asked me what kind of dildo I wanted in the scene. I think, are you sure you were on our set? I remember where I was. I remember we were doing a big, at that beautiful house in the weird house in the Hollywood Hills. It was a big dinner party scene and all the cast was there. It might have been the season finale. Yeah, it was. And a fight broke out. Right. Right.

And I had the idea, and Eddie in the script was supposed to be really, everybody else is appalled and trying to break it up, but Eddie's excited about it and thinks it's interesting. I'm kind of crazy. And kind of crazy. And my idea was he would get up from the table really excited about it and also have an erection. So you requested a dildo. Come on, Rob. Well, I had actually already gone to the bathroom and rolled up a towel.

It was a DIY. A DIY dildo. Yeah, I built it myself. Wow. And at this point, I understood the life of the show. So I knew that

No, everybody would love it. So I didn't even ask. I just did it. And then what was really cool is the prop person noticed it clearly. And just after a take just came up apropos and I said, oh, you know, we have dildos if you'd like one. And I was like, yeah, hell yeah, I would. Why does your prop person all of a sudden have an English accent? It's only because he's offering a dildo. You know that, right? Darling, there are many dildos. You don't have to sully it with a rolled up towel.

But the best part was when they brought it out, it was in a case, like a whole lot, like it was very ceremonially presented. Like a sword. Like a sword. And that was the greatest Eddie Nero moment. That was a fun show. Were you done when it was over? Did you feel like you'd...

like done everything you could do as Hank Moody? Yeah. I mean, any television show that goes that long, I mean, I think you can be done at any time after three, four iterations. One of the great things about doing television is you get to do that many years and, and you can really dig into a character that you can, you know, never do in, in, in one movie. But, you know, after, after that long, it's,

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it was always fun to do because I thought Tom's writing was always really fun to try to deliver. But, you know, like artistically or creatively at some point, you're like, oh, well, you know, this is this is nice and the paycheck's good and all that. But I think I've done that character. Yeah, I do. People always talk about the difference between movie acting and

In TV acting, and you've done both, and you just alluded to what I think the difference is, is like in a movie, you're playing somebody, but on TV, you're living somebody. Yeah. I mean, you know, whatever's going on in your life, you're on that set so often, you're playing that character more than you're yourself. Mm-hmm. Really. Yeah.

So you're living it. You're legitimately just chronologically just, you know, time in the saddle living it, which is very, very different than sort of putting on the mask and taking it off for eight weeks or even on a long movie, which is, you know, maybe 16 weeks. It's I kind of I kind of I like them both. When's the last time you've been on stage as an actor? Oh, I've only been on stage once here in New York about nine years ago. I did a Neil LaBute play.

Which one? It's called Break of Noon. It was an original play. You're kidding. Yeah. I love Neil LaBue. Was it awesome? It was so interesting, you know, as you know, to like try to do his dialogue. It's so kind of circular and there's so many interruptions from the other characters and so many restarts and over-talking and...

It's really daunting at first when you see it on the page like that. But then if you can get into a good rhythm with it, it's an amazing kind of approximation of the way people really talk in life. And that's the...

It's like Aaron Sorkin. The joy in it is in the execution. It's like running a really complicated play in the triangle offense in basketball. Right. Well, at some point, I think with – I haven't worked with Sorkin, but I think I understand what you're saying. And I think with LeButte as well, or Mamet, I would think people that have a real distinctive kind of verbal flow –

It's you have to somehow like you have to get there somehow. And it's not it's not like an actor get there. It's like us almost like a musician get there. It's almost 100 percent. It's almost like you got to start hearing the music.

And then you just have to play that song, you know? Well, it's funny because, and I can and enjoy doing both of them, but when we would do West Wing,

Actors would come in, amazing actors, but they were actors who had to get there as an actor and couldn't do it as a musician. And there was somehow the notion that if you couldn't find it and live it and feel it and get there, that it wasn't acting. And maybe they're right. It's playing the notes that you're given and crushing within the context of the timing and the notes. And you've got to find the joy in that.

and the precision. I think they're both very rhythmical, and I think what you're saying is right. It is a precision, and especially when I think back on the West Wing stuff and Sorkin's writing, it's like everybody has to hit their beat, and it's like...

Nobody can take their beat and find it. If you haven't found it, just throw it out there. Just keep it going. It's true. There's so much fun in that, I find. I like it both ways. It's fun to do stuff where you can do it all accurately. It's terrifying, too, though, when you're speaking so quickly and you realize you've got a page of dialogue in your head that's about to come out.

And you're not, you think you know it, you know, you knew it in your trailer, right? You knew it, you knew it yesterday, but it's just jumping off the cliff and your mouth just continues to move, you know? And you bet. And you just got to hope it's there. I know exactly what you're saying and the way I always think about it. And it happens every time, no matter how much I've prepared, no matter how well I know the dialogue, no matter how many takes I've done it, it feels like I'm leaning over the front of an express train.

and laying the rails down. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And I would feel, you know, and certainly like just we talk about these two characters, like Mulder and Hank would get on these like, they'd get on these verbal kind of like express trains. And I just remember the fear and the exhilaration of having to go in and know

I was going to I was going to execute this shit, you know, and and, you know, maybe I'd fuck up a few times and maybe I'd have better days than than than this. But it is really and it's like being on stage in that sense. You know, the question you ask is like, it's just you and this, you know, page or two of very well written or funny or technical stuff.

or full of you know russian names who knows what you had to say on the west wing you know oh aaron used to fuck with me because um i was we were all really good at that stuff but he loved to give me to challenge me so in military insignias ranks names and numbers so i got a lot of

Mr. President, you'll be meeting with Lieutenant Colonel Third Class J.G. John Stevenson of the 75th Air Brigade Battalion centered in Charlottesville, North Dakota. I got so many of those things. That's terrible. Brutal. Yeah. Sit back there and laugh at me. And we'll be right back after this.

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But you're a minimalist, I think. And I take that as a compliment. Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, I have my conception of truth, you know? I mean, I have my barometer, you know? And it's on the inside. And, you know, when I'm working, I'm trying to find that thing, you know, what's truthful to me. And...

I'm loathe to push it, you know? There's a freedom sometimes in pushing it, and in comedy, certainly we can push harder. But, you know, I kind of have a very natural distaste for the bullshit or the lie, you know, in my work, so...

It probably inhibits me a little, makes me more of a minimalist than I should be at times. But I think what you're saying may be getting to that in me. I mean, certainly when I started out and when I was auditioning, I would always get, you know, when I didn't get anything, it would always be like, well, first I would get like, he's a movie actor. He's not a TV actor because I was only auditioning for TV.

for television at the time, you know, starting out. That's a, by the way, that's a huge compliment coming from them. Well, yeah, compliment. I, you know, I couldn't pay my rent, but it was, it was a compliment. Yeah, exactly. And, uh,

But, you know, when it wasn't a compliment, I would get like flat or low energy and shit like that. And, you know, I thought I was a funny person, a funny. I thought I could do funny stuff. But I looked around and I saw like the people who were working in the funny were had a different vibe than I did, a different kind of energetic vibe.

And I thought, well, how am I ever going to how am I ever going to do that? I mean, because I couldn't I couldn't like get to that like that, like like honestly, I couldn't like get to that. So, you know, there were struggles for me at first was like even just getting out of maybe you call a minimalist or getting out of like a.

Just like a certain tone that I was like committed to as being truthful and then being able to see like, oh, there are other truthful tones. There are other there. The truth exists in different levels of energy that we can get to, you know, and it's just a matter of working hard enough to find those. But but it is there that energy. Some people vibrate at a different frequency. So their energy is going to it's just going to be different than yours. Like my.

My friend Bill Paxton, who I think you knew a little bit, you know, who I loved, who passed away a few years ago, you know, he could play Chet in Weird Science. Right. Where he was like, oh my God, you gotta be kidding me. And then he could do, you know, One False Move. Right. Or do, you know, these really like Gary Cooper-ish. Yeah.

And I just, I always respond to acting that isn't showy. I'm not, I'm not a big, like, proponent of showy acting. And that's why I've always been an admirer of your work. You, when you first, when you first started, I think,

Bad influence, one of the movies I did you were on. I'm remembering this correctly, right? That's where I met you. I remember that's the movie you met your wife on. Is that not right? That's right. That's where I met Cheryl on. Cheryl was my makeup artist. Yeah, and you were a big star. I used to tell this joke on... I told it on The Tonight Show once where I said, you know...

My craft is so important to me that I've named my children after roles that have been important to me throughout my life. For instance, you know, because of Bad Influence, people don't remember me from that film, but it was important to me. And I named my first son Club Goer No. 3. So I was Club Goer No. 3 and I was getting my hair done. I think I had one line or two.

at a club, I had like a password to get into some sex club that you guys, and I think I had to say like some weird password sounding phrase. I was getting my hair done and you were just really, you know, you were there and you were just really nice to me. And just very pleasant. You know, I had a conversation, you know, asking me questions about myself.

And that's all I remembered. And then I think I told you that when we worked again together. Because I worked with, you know, had tiny, tiny roles with big stars like you. And, you know, not many of them as friendly and as respectful, really, as you were. And I always remember that. Joan Cusack was another one. Very, very wonderful and respectful person.

I was an extra on Working Girl, basically. Whoa. Yeah. So you can say you worked with Mike Nichols. It ain't bragging if you've done it. Yes. I've worked near Mike Nichols anyway. You worked in the same room. I did. If I were you, I'd just be like, you know, when I worked with Mike Nichols, he told me. Mike Nichols, yeah. Well, Mike said. I would drop that name off.

All the time, if I could get away with it. I started in comedy with Mike Nichols on Working Girl. Well, it's the truth. It's the truth. You're not making that up. I'm not. So I told that Curtis Hanson, I ran into, well, I had a meeting with Curtis probably...

seven or eight years ago. I can't remember what the Curtis Hanson who directed bad influence and, and I can't remember what it was for. Wonderful guy. Yep. And I told him that story about, you know, that I said, club goer number three. And he looked at me and he said, you know, I, I, if there was a bigger role, I really would have, I would have loved you to do a bigger role. I was like, no, no, no, no, it wasn't. I'm not like he really was. He wanted, he wanted me to,

It was really sweet. He wanted me to know that he thought I was good or something, you know, that, and I was sitting in this meeting with him, but, um, I, it's, I love that movie. I love that influence. I think it's, we all do things in our, in our careers where you just wish it had, had, had had a better response and the critics really liked it, but it was really ahead of its time. It's, I love that movie. I always tell people if they haven't seen it to watch it. Um, and now, um,

that people realize you've got that amazing line in it well i have club goer number three i mean that's that's going to bring a whole new life i think from this podcast spader spader's in it spader is great in it he's great in everything he is and spader is uh indirectly responsible for me um being on the juggernaut twin peaks did you know that

No. So in the year 1989, probably, I don't know if I'd done Bad Influence even yet. When was the Bad Influence? When did you shoot that? 90. We did it in 89. We shot it in 89. It was right around that time. But apparently Spader was really good friends with Mark Frost, who was David Lynch's partner on Twin Peaks. And I think he was showrunning.

And Spader had come up with this idea for a character who was a drug enforcement agent who, because he was trying to take down this seller who would only sell to transvestites like Howard. So he would only sell to transvestites. So as a drug enforcement agent, Spader's character dressed up as a woman, busted the guy and then found that he liked wearing the clothes. And he now has become a full time transvestite.

And for some reason, you know, Spader couldn't do it. Maybe, you know, he had some other jobs. So they opened up the casting to greater L.A. And I went in and I got that role. I had no idea. That's I mean, the way the way we end up with roles. I mean, circling back to Californication, I only got that role because we shared the same hairdresser. That sounds very that sounds very L.A. It's true.

It is true. Well, you know, you and I both have some of the best wigs. That's right. Not a lot of people know that we're both bald. And this hairdresser. As an egg. As an egg. Daniel Erdman. I remember him calling. He said, Rob, Rob, Rob will do this. Rob should do this. And I said, he said, I'm going to call him. And we're like doing a scene somewhere. And he just hands me the phone to talk to you. And then you. And by the way, and I promise you, and I do, I really mean this. Had it not gone down like that.

Had they done the traditional route where the producers call the agents and the agents call me and it wouldn't have happened because I was on another show at the same time. Yeah. And it would have just been too, I'll bet you I would. This is why they don't tell you because it's just too much work for the agent. It's just too much work. They don't want to, they don't want to negotiate you getting the time off from the other show. Maybe there's not enough money in it. All that bullshit that goes on in our business. Right.

So I really don't believe I've been on the show. I really don't. I think I never would have known you guys reached out. You'd take your long drives down from Santa Barbara and memorize your lines in the backseat or nap. Still do.

Still do. I'm an Olympic sleeper. You know that, right? I don't know about that, but I will say this, and this will sound like faint praise, but it's not. It's like you come with your bags packed. You come ready to work. There's no...

There's no, you know, you know your lines, you know what you're doing, and you come and everybody else said, better be ready. You know, not like you're an asshole about it, but I like to work that way too. Somebody described Gene Hackman that way to me at one point, that he comes to work with his bags packed, you know, ready to go. I love that. I love that phrase. Dude, that's so good. Yeah.

Hi, I'm Rob Lowe, and I come to work with my fucking bags packed. Hi, I'm Rob Lowe. You see those things behind me? Those are bags. And guess what? They're packed. And guess what they're packed with? Acting ability. It would make me beloved to my co-stars, wouldn't it? It is funny as you get older.

Look, you've been doing this a long time. Yeah. You've been through everything you can go through. You name it. And I love working with people like you because of that. I like to look across the set and look at someone, and I know they've been in the trenches. And they've earned their bona fides. I love it. And it's harder and harder to do the older you get. Because there just aren't people that have done what you've done. I had this moment.

And this is going to sound like bragging, and it is bragging in a weird way, but you'll hear. But I was doing this remake of The Craft. We just did it last late fall, winter in Toronto. And I was working with, you know, four young actors that I didn't, you know, all these young actors. I didn't really know any of them, you know. And I was doing wire work because it's, you know,

that kind of movie. And I fucked up my back really badly. And no, yeah, not nothing permanent, but I was, I was incapacitated and I was in a lot of pain. And, uh, it was like, it was all I could do to, to remain upright for the 30 seconds of, of an over, you know? So I was working with this really great young actress named Kaylee Spady. And, uh,

All we needed, like on this day, was like we needed her and over my shoulder to her and her close up. So I was like, I was going to hang in there and do it. And I swear to God, Rob, you know, when they said action after about 10 seconds, I was just thinking, do not do not go to your knees. Do not go to your knees. I got to get down. I got to get down. I go down and I'm actually on all fours.

By Kaylee's feet. And I'm not bullshitting either. I mean, I was like crippled. And she like tapped me on the head and said, when I grow up, I want to be you. And I said, Kaylee, that's the nicest thing anybody's ever said to me on an acting set because I know exactly what you mean. And, you know, work hard, you know, and be respectful of people's time and, you know.

Do what you need to do to get the day's work done. It's a great story, and it's one of the things I – look, I shit on the business a lot, and I shit on actors a lot on the podcast. Right. Because there's – well, I mean, what we do is so silly and inconsequential on many levels. But on the other side of it, the sort of chivalrous, respectful sense of tradition –

of of of honoring your peers and a certain way to behave on a set i love that i love it it keeps me going it's one of the things i love about about you know people go why do you work so much and why do you still fucking grind away and it because i i love keeping that tradition alive and as we get older

We are doing that for the kids. For the kids! But it's true, you know? It's like on my show on 911 Lone Star, you know, I'm a fucking old man. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm working with kids who were not alive when bad influence was. Right. And, you know, you want to lead by example. Tell me about this wire thing, because this is like...

That whole thing about Tom Cruise does all his own stunts. I'm like, I'm happy to not do that. I don't want to like if you fucked your back up on a wire, what would you do if you were hanging off of a jet plane? I don't know. I just I just it was like a decision I made that I thought it would look better.

Um, you know, if, if it was me instead of, uh, it was all my decision really. By the way, if a wire work means you're being hung literally on wires and then they remove the wires visually, it makes it look like you're flying basically. Right. Well, you know, they have to remove more than the wires because I had my shirt off and what I didn't know before I filmed it was, um,

You know, you'll look pregnant if you're if you're if you've got a wire on because it's all on your midsection and your entire your entire weight is is just on a belt, basically. So they have to erase the wires and your baby bump as well. I was talking to one of the stunt people and I said, that looks terrible because I was looking at the playback.

And he was like, well, there's a reason Jackie Chan wears flowing shirts. And I was like, ah. See, I love that kind of inside knowledge. Yeah, I didn't know. I wouldn't have known. I know it now. So anyway, so what happened was I guess at some point I just, you know, like went backwards as I was supposed to. And, you know, being my age and having –

Had injuries in my past and some back problems. I think I just kind of irritated something. It got pretty bad, but we were able to get everything we needed to get. Oh, yuck.

Back injuries. Yeah. You know what I also loved? And I've since worked with him a bunch. It's Rob Bowman. I worked with him a bunch, and he directed the X-Files movie, as well as a lot of X-Files. Yes. I loved the X-Files movie. I thought it was fucking awesome. I don't understand why you can't give me another X-Files movie.

Um, that's really a Fox question. You know, they're, they're, they're weird because it's like, there's a homegrown property. It's a big, a big ticket property. And you think, why wouldn't you try to do another one? But, so I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm going to get into this. Maybe Rob Lowe in there. I mean, if I had Rob Lowe, you know, speaking for me, I think I'd be on set right now.

Well, I'm... Hanging from a wire or an airplane. For better or for worse, I'm Mr. Fox right now. So I'm going to call all those guys up and be like, listen, it's Duchovny, Jillian, and me. And...

We start out as beach cops. We've left the X-Files world and we're beach cops. And we're drinking out of big slurpy cups. Yeah. So we have our cake and eat it too. We finally get the beach cup thing out of our system. It's all timing. As you know, Rob, it's all timing. That's the scary thing when I look back and maybe when you look back too is, you know, none of it had to happen. Yeah. It's just...

It helps to be talented, sure, but it's all timing and luck, really, and being in that place at that time. And, geez, it's scary to think back on, you know, if you didn't open this door or you took that left instead of that right. It's like none of it had to happen. My whole career was because I used to go to Ohio to see my dad. My parents divorced. We'd go in the summers together.

I was 14 going on 15. I had fallen in love for the first time, my very first love, the week before I had to go to Ohio for the whole summer, which felt like an eternity. Yeah. And I got to Ohio and my new agent, he didn't know anything about anything. My little tiny agency said, hey, there's a big cattle call TV show. If you want to pay for your own way, we got you an audition.

And the only reason I came back is I wanted to see The Girlfriend. And it was a literal cattle call audition. I got the TV show. What was it? It was called A New Kind of Family. It was a sitcom on ABC. And unfortunately, it was directly opposite 60 Minutes. So we were literally the last...

There were 63 shows on the air and we were 63rd. Now, how long had you wanted to act at that point? You're 14. How long did you think, oh, I'd like to act? Or had you done any acting in school? No, I'd done a ton. I wanted to act since I was eight when I saw Oliver in a local production and saw all the kids on stage. And it was like I was struck

by lightning and knew I wanted to do it, was obsessed with it, driven with it. So, I mean, I came back. I always wanted to be an actor, so I didn't, it wasn't like I just came back on a whim. But I think about if I had not met that girl, maybe I'd go, you know what? It's, you know, I'm here in Ohio. I just got here. I don't really have the money and I don't get it. Right. When I did the X-Files pilot, I had gotten this, it was like, I wouldn't call it, maybe it was a movie of the week when they used to do those things, something like that.

it was like a couple scenes in this movie of the weekend. And it was a director who I was friendly with. And I was going to have to, you know, I would have to pull out of that part to do the X-Files pilot. And I said to my agents, I don't want to do that. You know, she's a friend and I don't want to pull out. Because I thought, well, first of all, I thought, you know, this is about extraterrestrials. There's no way that,

you know, what's, how long can it go? I mean, it's a fun pilot. It's a good pilot, but you're either going to see the aliens or you're, you know, then there's, there's no tension or you're going to wait too long to see them. It's like, it's not going to, and I wasn't interested in conspiracy theories as we, as we established. And, um, I was perfectly willing to just say, um, you know, I, I, I'm going to have to pass on that pilot because I said, I do this, this other project and my agents, uh,

convinced me that that was the wrong thing to do. But that's what, you know, me being a brilliant tactician, that was going to be my move. You're talking about actors being dumb. Well, that was me. We do need every once in a while someone to say, you know... Do this. Or don't do that. Yeah. I'm like you. I'm a fan of work. I think there's always something...

positive about work, even when it's crap, as you're talking about. Part of it is having the integrity to show up and do your work and exercise what it is you've spent so long learning how to do. But yeah, I don't know. Sometimes, yeah, I'm not good. I would never be a good agent. I don't know how to, you know, kind of curate an image or

build a career uh i don't know how to do that i wish i had somebody doing that for me i i mean i wish honestly i never i made it up as i went along honestly i really truly did i mean you know well again rob i mean i think you have to be commended uh for for you know invent reinventing yourself you know a few times now and uh yeah that shows great actually imagination and uh

and great resiliency as a person. I think you're very impressive in that. And you found, you know, in the last 10, 15 years, you found a real comedic vein, which I don't think you ever had before. I mean, you probably had it in your life.

but not so much as an actor. And that's an amazing discovery to happen at your advanced stage of decrepitude. Listen, guys pushing 60, we're not meant to change. We're not meant to reveal other areas of our lot. But you know what I mean, Rob? Yeah, we get it. You know, I think sometimes you can... I don't say you have to be arrogant or necessarily pride-going before fall and all that, but you can sit down tonight...

And look at the sunset and go, motherfucker, I stayed awake. I stayed awake. I kept challenging myself. I kept asking if there was more for me to do. And you did it. A big change. Big, big shift. Middle of your career. Well, a professional would end the show now. I didn't say you were good at this. Well, that's, I think, if you've listened, pretty obvious. Doesn't need to be said. Yeah.

Double D. Yeah. I love you. Thanks for coming on the show. And we have a surf dinner date coming up soon. I hope to see you in person soon, Rob. And I'm happy you're well and healthy and love to the family. Vice versa. Love you, man. Thanks, Rob. Bye. I love that man. He is, I mean, as you just realized, so smart, so well-read, just a decent dude and a fantastic actor. And, um,

If you're at all interested in acting or having a career or styles of acting, hopefully you got something out of that. Because I did. I very much did. Hearing David talk about his process. It was really, really cool. I had a good time. All right, everybody. It is time for the Lowdown Line. Hello. You've reached literally in our Lowdown Line.

where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hey Rob, this is Derek from Chico, California. And I love the pod. One thing I don't think you've talked about much is where you've traveled in your life. What is the most unexpectedly wonderful place you've ever traveled to in the world? And where would you like to go that you haven't been? Thanks for your answer. Thank you, Derek, for calling the Lowdown Line.

I don't know how unexpected it is, but without a doubt, the place that when I landed there and looked at it, I was just moved almost to tears by was the island of Bora Bora. It is absolutely magical beyond belief. The other place was surprising because you hear about Yosemite. I live in California. You're in Chico. You're in California as well. Yeah.

And I finally got to Yosemite and I came around the corner and looked out at that Yosemite Valley. My eyes just spilled over with tears. It is the Yosemite Valley. If you traveled across the world to get there, you wouldn't have been disappointed. And yet it's right in my state and I'd never gotten there. Just beyond spectacular. Where would I like to go? Well, you know where I want to go? I want to go to Japan.

to ski. That's what I want to do. There's, and I should know the name of it, but I don't. But there's a resort on, I think it's the island of Hokkaido. I hope I'm pronouncing it right. That has the most powder of anywhere in the world. And skiing connoisseurs know that that is the place you go for powder. So the notion of having like amazing, authentic Japanese food and powdered ski every day is next, literally next.

next on my bucket list. And I'll see you next time. You have been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe. Produced and engineered by me, Devin Tory Bryant.

Executive produced by Rob Lowe for Lowe Profile. Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blairt. Talent producer, Jennifer Sampas. Please rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts. And remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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