Ed O'Neill: 10-Month La Dolce Vita
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Hey, everybody. Thanks for downloading. And you're going to get the download in about a second when we start this interview. Ed O'Neill.

a great actor, a dramatic actor, comedy actor, married with children. I mean, come on. Al Bundy, let's go! Modern Family, and on and on and on. And just one of the great rock-on-tour storytellers and like good dudes in the business. He and I go back to our days of Wayne's World, for those of you who are super fans of that movie. And it's a fun conversation. So let's go.

I didn't think you could be dragged off of Hawaii for anything. It wasn't easy, but I got to help out here. My 21-year-old's moving to New York City. You lived in New York for many years, I would think, right, at some point? Yeah. There's nothing like being young, single...

Starting your life out in New York I think it should be required Everybody should have to live there Don't you think? I agree for sure I mean you just have to navigate it There's nothing like that energy You grow up awfully quickly When you have to really live in New York City

Yeah, it's great. I mean, the first year I kind of hated it because I didn't know what subways and what buses and what, you know, I mean, you don't know where to go and I'd end up in all sorts of crazy places. It's an art form for sure. Yeah. I...

I had no idea. I was doing a little, I mean, we've known each other, you know, peripherally, peripherally, peripherally forever for, for many, many, many, many, many, many, many years. That's right. But as I look through the, my little background research on you, I didn't really realize your early football career in your life. I mean, I kind of knew you played football, but I didn't really realize the extent. I kind of wish I hadn't. Really? Why? Yeah.

Well, you know, I feel it now. Really? You know, a couple of knee operations, a torn Achilles tendon and concussions, broken fingers, you know, broken collarbone. How many concussions do you think you had in your career? I couldn't count them because, you know, in those days we didn't even know what, you know, well, we called it getting your bell rung. Yes, of course. Yeah, he really got his bell rung, but that was it. Yeah. Sometimes you'd actually see.

I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but you can actually see stars and planets. You know, that's not, I always thought that was just a saying. I thought it was only a, but it only happened to Bugs Bunny. Yes, me too. But I've seen a few of those, uh,

planetary yeah you literally you actually see stars in the bird like like they do in the cartoons you know it's funny when i got cut i was the um i was with it was chuck knowles first year right so the day i got cut he could not have been nicer the whole rooney family by the way are legendary yes nice guys yeah

So he called me in. I was told to bring my playbook. This is for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yeah, 1969, his first year, my first year, and only year. So he was telling me how he liked me. He was saying nice things that he had to produce because it was his first year. And in some ways, I was trying to make outside linebackers.

I had never played outside linebacker because in college, very few college defenses used the outside linebackers. They used what they called a 5-4. Two linebackers with a middle guard over the center. And that was the only defense I ever played. So I was trying to learn the position and make the team at the same time, which I don't recommend. No. But anyway, he said, listen,

If you want, I talked to the head coach of the Eagles 15 minutes ago. I was thinking about you coming in here. I hated to tell you what I'm telling you, but if you want, we'll rent you a car and try out for the Eagles. He said, but I've got to know right now. I've got to know right away because, you know, they're, if they don't, if you're not coming down, they're going to get somebody else in. You know, this was took me, I was just standing there. I was sitting across from him and I said, you know what? I'm done.

Wow. He said, really? I said, yeah, I'm done. I don't want to play anymore. I really didn't. Really? Why? Why didn't you want to play? I played for two different colleges. I had knee problems now. This is the NFL. This is the NFL. Yeah. NFL. Yeah. But I was a little bit sick of I didn't say this to him, but I didn't like coaches, especially. Hmm.

Although I did like him and I didn't like a lot of players. I mean, I got to the point where alone in the players, I wasn't really so thrilled about. Interesting. So I just said, I'm done. And that was it. That was it. Now, is this the same team that eventually had mean Joe green and like LC Greenwood? Yeah. They won four Superbowls right after, right after I was gone, by the way. And you know, I'll tell you a funny thing about that. It's just a kind of funny story. You'll appreciate.

Two brothers used to come to the practice sessions every day. Our practice session was at St. Vincent's College in Latrobe, Pennsylvania. And these two guys would show up every day. They had notepads. They had names and numbers. And these were fans. Dennis Miller.

And his brother, Jimmy. Come on. I swear to God. And they stopped me coming. I was going to Ed O'Neill, Youngstown, Ohio. Get over here. Ed O'Neill, baby, from Youngstown, Ohio. You look like Chickie Chickerson from the 59. That's right. And so, you know, you meet the kids. The kids are all out there. They're looking, you know, you've got the uniform on.

So they're asking for autographs. And I remember saying to these kids, look, I'm not really on the team. I'm a rookie. I'm trying out. You don't want my autograph. And they would say, well, you might be famous someday. So I'd sign it.

And I often wonder if anybody ever saved those autographs. How great would that be? Would you rather have Ed O'Neill's autograph on a first season of Married with Children, final season of Modern Family, or Steelers rookie jersey? For sure, I want the Steelers rookie jersey. Yeah, yeah. The Steelers are notorious, apparently, to this day, because they are such a successful franchise. Yeah.

Um, that they are like really slow to change. And I hear that like, they're one of this few locker rooms where you can like still go in and get like hostess ho-hos and shit like that. They're like, when, when I was, uh, when I was the day I was cut, the, uh, equipment manager came in to my room and, uh, he said, listen, we've got a lot of great stuff for you.

You know, they try to make it easier on you. I said, what kind of stuff? He said, like swag. You know, we've got like great hats and T-shirts and jerseys and game jerseys, shorts. I said, I don't want any of that shit. He said, what are you talking about? I said, I don't want any of it. Why would I wear it? That's rinky dick. If I made the team, I'd wear it.

I'm not wearing it because I got cut. That's a good point. And they said, well, your shoes, your cleats are down in the stadium, in your locker. You'll want to get your cleats before we get. I said, why? I'm never going to play again. I'm never going to use them. They must have looked at you like you were insane. I just left them. By the way, that's the best. They're my favorite uniforms in all of football by far. Yeah, they're great. And do you know the story of why the logo is only on one side of the helmets? No.

So, and it's one of those things that I'm not sure people really fully realize, but they are the only team in the league whose logo, and it's that amazing Steelers logo, which I think is actually an emblem of a steel union or something. Because I can remember having refrigerators as a kid in Ohio from Pittsburgh that had that logo on it. But it wasn't the Steelers logo, but it was that same logo. So it's the only helmet with a...

Logo on one side what they get the logo they for the very first time ever Yeah, and the equipment managers job they get it right before a game right before a game and the equipment manager is like I don't have Enough I don't have enough logos. I don't have enough and they just put them on one side of the helmet and

Oh, that's it. So they put them on one side of the helmet for that game. And then everybody's like, you know what? This is kind of cool. And that was it. That's so funny. I love all that sports stuff. Know that. And I'll tell you another funny story about it that happened recently. Because they've always been trying to get me to go to the games. You know, like, come to the games. You know, you come out. We'll introduce you. And I said, no, I watch it on TV. So...

When Sofia Vergara got married, that was down in the Breakers Hotel in West Palm Beach. The wedding was four days, you know. And I know it cost about $4 million to put it on. And she told me, well, I'm selling it. You know, I'm selling it. What do you think? Yes. To Europe and everything. She made money on the wedding. She's no dummy. But I'm at the reception, and this guy comes up to me, and he says...

I don't want to bother you, Mr. O'Neill, you know, but you're trying to enjoy yourself, you know, but I work for a man who's your biggest fan and he's afraid to come over and bother you. And I'm just wondering if that would be okay. And I said, where is it? He said, he's over there by the fountain. So I look over there and I said, that's Franco Harris. He said, yeah. So I, I said, come here. So he comes over like a kid, you know, he's like,

I said, you know, I was a rookie the year before you got there. He said, yeah. I said, you know that? He said, yeah, we know all about it. I said, you came from Penn State, right? I was there two weeks. You won four Super Bowls. Why am I your idol? Yeah.

You know, what is it? He really, he looks like he can still play by the way. And he, yeah, he looks absolutely. I met him recently. Couldn't believe he looked exactly as he did, but university of Ohio is where you came from first, but that's not Ohio state. That's something different. Correct. So Ohio university in Athens, Ohio. Okay. That's right. I played for a guy named Bill Hess. Okay. I remember. Then I, then I transferred to Youngstown state that where I was born and raised.

And I'll tell you something about that goddamn team. Our mascot, I guess you call it, right? The name, like it was the Penguins. Sure. So many Penguins in Ohio. Youngstown State University Penguins. The Ohio Penguins. They're everywhere when you go to Ohio. And I said, how in God's name did you name a team in Ohio Penguins?

And they said that in the 1930s, they had a basketball team that was playing Slippery Rock Teachers College, and the gym was underheated. It was cold. And the players were trying to keep warm before the game when they were having a shoot around, and they were flapping their arms.

Hence the penguins. Somebody said you look like penguins. Well, I'm glad you became an actor. And I know your brain, your cerebellum is happy that you became an actor. Yeah, that's the point. What was your sort of inroad? Did you come out of New York?

Yeah, I started doing theater in college, Youngstown State, and then the Youngstown Playhouse, a couple other playhouses. Oh, I have one for you. Do you remember, Ed, do you remember a thing called the Kenley Players? Of course. John Kenley. Oh, yes. Did you work for him? Here we go. Oh, John. Was he driving his little cart around? The cart?

I can't, you totally know. So I'm obsessed with the Kenley players. So with the Kenley players. I'm sure he liked you. Oh, he did. But I was almost even too young to be liked. No, and I was a little too rough trade. Yeah, yeah, you were way rough trade for him. He was something, man. That was a, you know, you get Burt Reynolds playing the Rainmaker with Miss America. Okay, I saw Sally Duncan as Peter Pan. I saw Shirley Jones on A Clear Day You Can See Forever. I saw Vincent Price in Oliver.

I mean, so the Kenley Players was at a time when there really were no, there were no touring Broadway companies. There weren't. It did not exist. So what you did was John Kenley had a circuit of theaters in the Midwest that were the Memorial Hall. So huge, huge halls, like, you know, 1100 seats, 2000 seats. And he would have a series of plays that would come in in the summertime and it

And it was the, as close as any of the people in Dayton, Ohio, Warren, Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus ever got to legitimate theater and massive stars would come in and, and he would pay them their rate that they were making on their TV shows. Right. And that's what he did. He was like, he would take Anson Williams, uh,

in his hiatus from happy days and say have you ever wanted to do death of a salesman no it wasn't dramas they were always musicals and there were some good restaurants in the one in warren ohio you know with that theater that i knew i only knew about his one theater yeah it was warren was the the number one place you can imagine the uh playing warren ohio yeah so john in the in his career in the midwest he was responsible for so many people's careers i auditioned for him for

for Oliver and never got a job with the Kenley players. But, but that, but his work made me want to be an actor. And he was by all accounts, just a tremendous person. Oh yeah. I mean, he was a legend, you know, in the, in that area. Legend.

I love people. It's funny when I bring the Kenley players up, people either lose their minds and want to talk for a thousand years about Ben Stiller. And I were talking about this because his parents did the Kenley players circuit almost every summer. Well, I never, I never worked for Kenley either. I mean, I just knew, you know, of him and I would read the papers and see whatever the show was. Well, I was in Hawaii, uh, you know, pandemic was happening. I was there 10 months. I know.

So I'm on my little, I got this little motor scooter, the old one, you know, like the Dolce Vita. Yeah, perfect. Sure. And I'm down by the beach house. There's nobody there. Beautiful. Sun's going to set and a golf cart comes down and there's a young kid driving it and an older woman in the back sitting alone. And I sort of said, hi, because I had to wait to go buy them. And she said, are you Eddie O'Neill?

And I said, yeah. And she said, you know, I'm from Youngstown. I don't live there anymore. But I met you years ago at the Youngstown Playhouse when I because I did plays there 10 years before you started. But my husband and I remain patrons of the theater. So one night you were opening in a play and we went to the play.

and you know they have afterwards you meet the actors and have a glass of wine yeah and you were so nice to me and on the way home in the car i said to my husband that young fellow could make it but he'll never leave youngstown because most guys most people never did right and i said well i got up by the skin of my teeth i said what's your name now and she said gruel

I said, not, you know, David Grohl lives there. She says, that's my son. I mean, what a small world, right? That's David Grohl's mom. I said, you were telling me just a minute ago how well I've done. I said, did you fly in on this private jet? You know?

how but how do you oh look i'm from dayton dayton ohio you're from youngstown yeah you wanted to be an actor i wanted to be actor what what do you think it is about the people that that leave and the people that don't by the way there's nothing wrong with staying nothing no but i think you want to get out but if you want to have a you know you they're not making movies and tv in dayton or in youngstown so if you really want to do it you got to go so and you know uh

Luke, you know. Luke Perry. Yeah. Luke was from Mansfield. Yeah. What do you attribute to that thing that made you want to go? You just knew you had to do it. I guess so. You know, it's been so long. I mean, I remember we had a local theater in my neighborhood. You know, you could walk to it. And it was called the Belmont Theater. And I used to go a lot.

I think I saw Real Bravo like 20 times. You know, I saw Spartacus. Yeah. That's a long movie. Five times. And I remember coming out saying, boy, I like Kirk Douglas as Spartacus, but I love that Crassus, that general Lawrence Oliver. Lawrence Oliver. I would see these movies and then I would tell all my friends in my neighborhood the movie. I'd go through the whole movie.

And then if they had a chance to see it, they'd usually say, wasn't as good as the one you told us about. You're a natural born storyteller. Well, I remember when I met you, the first time I met you, do you remember what I said to you? You couldn't possibly. I said, you've missed your calling. You're a funny yet.

You know, your impressions are great. Thank you. And of course, you always were playing sort of dramas, right? You didn't do a lot of comedies, or maybe later you did. Yeah, not early, that's for sure. You know, we worked together on West Wing. And West Wing and Wayne's World, too. And Wayne's World. You're amazing in Wayne's World. What I love about your cameo in Wayne's World is you are...

literally so demented. Like, I don't know what's going on with, is it Stan Nikita's donut shop? Yeah, Stan Nikita's donut shop. I was the manager. Right. You're like all of a sudden out of another movie, which is great because it's one step away from Silence of the Lambs. It's amazing. Well, I started the one out with, if you stab a man in the dead of winter.

I wouldn't do it. You steam, you can see steam rising from the wound. And that's, is that a Mike? That's must be a Mike Myers. I think that's a Mike. Uh, yeah. Peace. Uh, so, so funny. You know, I was going to be in Wayne's world too. And you know, you and I shared for many, many years, the great manager, Bernie Brillstein. Oh yeah. Who loved you, loved you, loved you, talked about you all the time. And, um,

And we did a table reading of Wayne's World 2, which was a notorious train wreck. And it was, you know. Was Penelope directing that? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was way before. Penelope directed Wayne's World 1. Oh, that's right. Wayne's World 2 is, I believe, Steve Sergic, if I remember correctly. Was that the one Walken was in? Well, in the part that I was supposed to play.

Because, I mean, if you're not going to get me, clearly the next person you go to is Christopher Walken. And we did a table read and I'll never, it was a disaster. And I remember looking up at the then head of the studio, Sherry Lansing, who was like. Yeah, I knew Sherry. Stone faced. And then looking over at Bernie and Bernie was just sweating and literally looked at me and gave me the like, no way face. Yeah.

And somehow, you know, cause he, he also managed Lauren. He got me out of that movie. And it was, it was, it was not, and I'm not speaking out of school, both Dana and Michael tell you, it wasn't, wasn't the happiest moment in their lives, but I know, but I know I will. The notion that, that, that Chris Walken ended up playing a part I was supposed to do is so insane. Well, you know, when I did Saturday night live, I only did that once.

It was not my cup of tea. You're kidding. I would think you would. I don't know why. It was just, well, first of all, Lauren and I had absolutely nothing in calm. Right. Because I was doing married with children. Oh, yes. And, and, you know, Lauren didn't want to touch that with attention. No, no, no. That's yes. For sure. You know, he doesn't want to go there.

So I said, well, what are you going to do? Why am I here? Why am I even doing this? The thing about Ed O'Neill on the show is it reminds America of their middle class upbringings. I try to run from those memories. Yeah. And so Chris was doing the following week. Oh. So I heard because, you know, they had that meeting before we shot our show. The meeting of the next week. You know, they do that.

and Chris shows up and he's sitting in the back with sunglasses on smoking something. And, uh, you know, Lauren goes through his bit about, you know, this week we have wonderful Chris Walken. Uh, Chris just want to tell you that if you have anything you think is amusing or something you'd like to try, please let us know. We're open to any suggestion, anything you think that might be amusing. And Chris said, well, bears are funny.

Likewise, bear suits. I can't believe you're telling me this story. Do you know that story? Yes, I have heard this story numerous. It's one of my favorite stories. It's true. I mean, I heard it like the next day after it happened. I bears are funny. Likewise, bear suits and bear suits as well.

And, you know, honestly, Rob, I think he ended up as one of the best guests. That Mr. Was it Mr. Belvedere? No, no. The Continental. The Continental. And it was the name of the hotel, right? Welcome to the Continental. My wide eyed.

ruby-lipped doe you know what uh rob one time i ran into chris well you know i worked with chris in dogs of war oh wow with tom barringer yeah we played mercenaries yeah it's a it's a good movie and uh they they were the stars i had a smaller role in them i was one of the mercenaries but anyway you know i got to know him and and so he was doing hamlet

at stratford amazing and i saw him it was a monday so they were dark and i had just read their review it was in the daily news or something and it wasn't bad it wasn't glowing but it wasn't bad but they did say this walk and he may have a hamlet in him you know so i see him walking down the street you know how he is the hair is like blowing in the wind yeah he's got that stride

I said, Chris, how are you doing? I'm just reading about you. Let's get a drink. I said, it's 10 o'clock in the morning. I was on my way to play handball at the West 63rd Street Y. He said, oh, well, too bad. I have to, you know, it's my day off. So I said, well, you've got some nice reviews, you know, congratulations. Great role. He said, you know, when you do Shakespeare, the critics, you know, they want that thing, you know, the Shakespeare thing. I refuse to give it to them.

Fuck him. I don't do the thing. I got no idea what he's talking about. I said, well, you know, it came out okay. And he said, do I not look Danish? I said, you do look Danish, as a matter of fact. Do I not look Danish? Barsuits are funny.

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It's time to get retro with Ashley. Shop more Labor Day deals in-store and online. Subject to credit approval. Minimum monthly payments required. No minimum purchase required. See ashley.com for details. You were in The Unit, right? That's David Mamet's adaptation. Yeah. So for those, okay, so here's the way it works in TV.

You get great showrunners. A showrunner is the same as a director and a writer. It's the person who runs the show. They write it. They do everything. They're the god, right? And every once in a while, you'll get a movie person or a tremendous writer to come in and do a TV series. David Mamet gets convinced, wants to do a CBS procedural, which is a very specific genre. Yeah. Right? It's not HBO. Yeah.

It's not showtime. So I must see TV. It's early two thousands down the middle CBS programmer procedural by David, excuse me, fucking mammoth. So you've got to walk me through this one. I've known David since 1980. We live next near each other in Chelsea and Manhattan. He had a Brownstone. I had a slum, but we were close. So he called me and he said, uh,

I'm doing this thing and I'm trying to delegate because it's a fucking impossible thing. Everybody's got too many fucking chiefs. I said, yeah, sure, I'll do it. So it was a guy who was in a plane. It was a private jet and there was something wrong with it. Sure. And the pilot was dead. Of course.

And you don't know how he died. You don't know if he was assassinated, poisoned, whatever. And I'm at the controls. I can't fly at a plane. No. And I'm somewhere over like Wisconsin at 38,000 feet. And I'm on the radio. And they have these, you know, Delta Force guys that intercept the radio. And they're trying to talk me down. But at the same time, they're trying to find out who I am.

Right. Because they think they start to think I'm a black ops guy, you know, that the air force wants dead. Yep. So they're trying to save me. And meanwhile, the air force is jamming the frequencies. Someone's jamming. So when I show up on the set to do it, they have a mock-up of a, of this plane and the pilot, the poor guy playing the pilot is dead, you know? So the director, I never, I didn't know the guy, nice guy.

and we start to you know start it first scene and mammoth's not there so i said you know is david going to show today well you know you know he'll probably come by around noon i said okay so now the guy is doing a lot of directing and i'm starting to think oh god you know i mean i know how to do this yeah and if i don't you're gonna get the same thing anyway so oh boy

don't direct you know i'm thinking this of course i'm not saying it of course and i'm being polite yeah and dave walks in the door and i mean he it was only you know like half hour after we started and i look and i wave anyway he's got his little beret on so he he sits down at the video village and he just watches like two takes and the director coming in after each take and blah blah blah blah and finally i see him

He walks over as the guy is directing me, giving me some ideas. And he walks over and says, look, here's the thing from jump. Okay. From the fucking jump. No more fucking directing of the guy. Put the fucking camera on, do the shots and let him do whatever the fuck he wants. At the end of the day, we'll have it. He'll go home. We'll all be happy. Okay. Amazing. Adios amigo. That was it. Well, have you ever read the memo he wrote to the writing staff?

No. Oh, Ed. Ed, Ed, Ed, Ed, Ed, Ed. And anybody out there, anyone who has any interest whatsoever in television must read the memo that he wrote to the writing staff of the unit. It is it should be emblazoned in the halls of Congress. It should be inscribed in granite on Hollywood Boulevard. And one of them and there are so many nuggets of knowledge with buried within it.

Every writer should read it. Every producer should read it. Every director should read it. Every actor should read it. Every studio head should read it. Everybody who makes television should read it. One of my favorite things he says is he says, and I'm paraphrasing because it's much more colorful language, but he says, it is not the actor's job to play drama.

Which is true. It's the writer's job to write drama. The actor is just to act what's on the page. That's right. And that's always the problem with really super bad acting. It's funny. I do a show called 9-1-1, and we go through this on the 9-1-1 call center. It's like a call comes in, 9-1-1, I'm on an airplane. The pilot's had a heart attack. I don't know how to fly the plane. Right? The 9-1-1 person should not ever play that drama. Ever.

Ever. Ever. They play the facts, the reality. And by the way, they've had calls like that a billion times. Now, maybe not that at the top, but this is what they do. But when you get a bad actor in there or worse, a bad director, they're like, you know, this is a life and death situation. I mean, this is a plane that could crash at any moment. I'm just wondering if, you know, I mean, maybe there's a way to sort of visualize it. I mean, we just project a little bit of that energy, the stakes of it. It's the absolute worst piece of advice ever.

You know when he did that movie, House of Games? Yes. And he had just sold The Untouchables. And Brian De Palma was shooting that in Chicago with De Niro and Sean Connery and Star-Studded Castle. And he's in Seattle shooting this little low-budget movie, and he gets a call from Brian De Palma. You know that scene you wrote for Bobby? De Niro's playing Al Capone. Yep.

At the courthouse steps. And he's talking about why he wears a different necktie every day. And it's a wonderful scene. But Bobby seems to be having trouble with some aspects of the scene. And I can't quite figure out exactly what it is. He can't seem to get his mouth around some of these sentences. And, you know, I was hoping that perhaps you would take a look at. And if you know Mamet, this is the wrong thing. Yeah. And Mamet said, I sold it.

I sold the fucking thing, Brian. I don't own it anymore. He said, well, I know, I know, but you know, you wrote it. And I was, I was thinking maybe you'd do me a favor. He said, let me tell you something, Brian, a favor. I pick your fucking kid up from school. I'd rewrite the scene. It's a hundred fucking grand. Are we clear? He's my hero.

By the way, his books on acting, I highly recommend. It's great. I love him. Apparently, this is probably an apocryphal story. I did a movie of his. It was called Sexual Perversity in Chicago. It was one of his first plays. Well, it was the play. Yeah, and then they changed it to About Last Night was the title because the newspapers around the United States, this is a true story, they would not run an ad for a movie called Sexual Perversity in Chicago. That's the only reason we changed the title. But the story I heard...

was that they asked and paid David to adapt his play into a movie. And all he did was put interior exterior over the scenes. That was it. He won't say walking down the street, a beautiful fall day and the leaves are falling. No. If you've read a William Goldman script, it is the exact opposite. It is a full on experience unto itself. Yes. Reading it. Yeah. But it's actually for the producers, you know,

It's not for the camera guy or the director, really. Tell me, I got to know about this because this is also famous in history is, you know, married with children. You know, people forget it made the Fox network. Fox was nothing. It was nothing, nothing, zero, nothing.

Married with children, made it, massive hit, ran forever. And you, my good fine feathered friend, were in the catbird seat of one of the most classic renegotiations in history. And your former manager, the dearly departed legendary Bernie Brillstein, apparently murdered Fox for you. Do you remember any of the stories of what he did in his meetings? Well, no, it's in his book. Right, right. That's right.

but it was Gary Lieberthal. Gary was the guy over at Columbia who was dealing with Bernie on that. And it really got vicious. And it was my first negotiation for anything. You know, you didn't negotiate theater. And Bernie, they make an offer and I'd look at it and I'd think, take it. This is more money than I'm ever gonna make in my life. He'd say, you know, it's not a real good deal.

We can do better. So this went on. He kept turning these offers down. And finally, their last final offer. You know how they do that? This is it. And he doesn't do this. I mean, we're going to take him to court because he is under fucking contract after all. They hit you with the famous, we'll take his house. Yeah, everything. He'll never work. That whole thing. So Bernie says, well, you got to do what you got to do.

And he had already had the conversation with me in his office. He said, you got to get in the parking lot. If you may like this deal now, but at the end of the day, years go by, you're going to say, you know what? I got fucked a little bit. You're never going to be in this catbird seat again. They're not going to fire you, but I can't promise you that because they have done it in the past, but I don't think they will. But it's your call.

So I said, you know, I mean, what was I going to do? Say, take the deal, Bernie. You know, I said, no, go, let's go. Let's go for the whole thing. Beautiful. So now he says, I got to call Gary back. So he gets Lieberthal on the phone and he says, Bernie, tell me, give me the good news. I know he's got to love it. That's a lot of money. Nah, he doesn't really, he wasn't that excited about it.

Well, he went crazy. You know, Gary went absolutely fucking crazy on the phone and I'm listening. And he starts screaming, what the fuck does he want? And he repeated that several times. What the fuck does he want? And Bernie said famously, I don't know, Gary, but I think we'll know when we hear it. That's a great one. And so then a long story short, we got it.

And I'll never forget it because I was living in Venice on the canals at the time. And I was in my backyard and the phone rang. It was Bernie. I said, hi, Bernie. And he said, the ship has sailed. Now, I don't know why I knew that meant we got the deal. I knew that's what it meant, right? The ship has sailed. Come on in. I want to talk to you. I want to run. I want to walk you through everything. So I did. And now he calls Gary and he tells him,

We got a deal. You know, and Gary, oh my God, I'm so happy, Bernie. Tell Ed, we love him. We love him. You know, I'm going, what the fuck? Yeah, they went from we'll take his house to we love him. We're going to take his house. We're going to put him in jail. Yeah. Yeah.

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Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. You know, when I was the last year on Married with Children, they switched us to Saturday night. Well, you know what that is. That means you're canceled. Because we were Sunday night for 10 years. So he made a big deal out of it. There was this big affiliates thing.

Before the start of the season, everybody, it was like everybody loves Raymond's first year. And that whole cast was there. Peter Boyle. That was a wonderful show. Yeah, great show. And they wanted me and Katie to come in on that day and present something or make some sort of announcement. So we said, yeah, we sort of had to do it. So I get up. It's my turn to talk after everybody. Peter Roth introduced me. It was his first year as president.

he had just got that thing yep you know i went through like eight presidents yeah sure for fox during that run so i told this story i said you know i was at my house in venice and i looked up and i saw the puff of white smoke going up over the west side i knew another president had been now i said you know i i really i just want to say a couple of things to our affiliates here and

So happy to see everybody. A lot of you I know and I haven't seen for a while, and we only see each other once a year. It's always nice. I said, you know, as you know, they moved us to Saturday night, and they're very enthusiastic about it. They're telling me that they're very excited about it, and they're all so happy with that move. And I said, I just feel like that old dog today. Peter Roth, I mean, nobody really laughed that hard, you know. Peter Roth was like...

So now when we got canceled, which was right after you came off stage. Yeah, we didn't even get an espresso drink. So about six months, maybe a year, maybe a year later, he called me about something. He wanted me to do something for him, for Fox. And I said, how you been? I haven't talked to you. Oh, good. I've been meaning to call you. You know, that whole thing. I felt so terrible.

when we had to cancel your show i said well okay i said you know we never got the last episode which i never did understand that logic um 11 years kept you guys in the black the whole time no last episode and no gifts for the cast nothing not even a card he said ed

Do you actually think that we would let you go without a wonderful gift? Oh, it's a year later. I said, oh, you've got something in mind, Peter. I said, well, just a helpful hint. I've got steak knives. Never got a thing. And I still get Christmas cards from them. I grew up in this business, right? And I thought all businesses were run like Hollywood until I met real people in real businesses.

It's insanity. It really is. But, you know, when we got canceled, I'll tell you one more story about that, and that's enough. I was in Youngstown. I was staying at a bed and breakfast right by the university. And, you know, we hadn't heard anything because they canceled us after that last season before what would have been our 12th. Right. So we're sort of waiting to hear. Yeah, you're wondering. You're on the bubble. You think you don't know. I'm kind of knowing, but, you know, I'm still wondering. Sure.

So I come out of the bed and breakfast and a car pulls in with the tin cans and it's the married couple. They pull right in front of me and they say, oh my God, it's Al Bundy. I said, well, congratulations. You just got married. Yes, we just got married. We're going in to make children, to have our wedding dinner and so forth. And I said, oh, great. So sorry to hear about your show.

I said, pardon me? Oh, my God, he doesn't know. Well, it's on the radio. It's on the TV. You got canceled. I said, okay. Oh, my God, we're so sorry. I said, I would rather hear it from you. Come on, let's go in. I bought him a bottle of champagne, you know, adios. Now, you want that story because you could tell that story forever. Yeah. Nobody ever called us, Rob.

Oh, I'm on shows that have never been canceled. We just haven't made them in multiple years. But don't get me wrong. I've gotten the phone calls where they go, that's it. I'm sorry. It's over. I've had those too. But I've also had shows that just all of a sudden you're not. They just fade away. They just fade away. Nothing's ever canceled. And if you notice, they don't announce canceling things anymore. But that takes it to a whole new level. You created the network. You and sports and Simpsons. Period. And you hear about it.

from two local yokels who just got married in Youngstown. You can't make it up. You cannot make it up. And when people want to know how show business is run, there's your answer. Well, when they cast me, I was like the last one in. I came from New York, and they had seen all kinds of guys for that part. I get a call, and they say, hey, they got this show. It's called Married with Children. I said, that's a horrible title.

Well, it's these two crazy guys and they're right over here at Sunset Gower. So I read it and I thought it's kind of funny. So I went in and they asked me if I'd read. And I said, sure. Because at the time I was from I was in New York. I read all the time. Yeah, I love reading. And I thought it reminds me of one of my uncles, this guy. So apparently I would have no way of knowing.

A lot of the other actors read it like Jackie Gleason's Honeymooners, you know, angry. And when I read it, because I had no reference, I thought, it's just the guy is my uncle expecting the worst and getting it right. And they hadn't heard that. And I guess that's what started them thinking maybe I was going to do this. And when they finally said they wanted me and they went to Barry Diller, and I think this is true. Diller said, well, you got the girl.

which was Katie Segal, you know, legend, you can do a hell of a lot better for the guy. And they said, well, we, we kind of like them. We got to shoot next week.

It's your funeral. A lot of people listen to the podcast who want to be actors and are actors or young actors are thinking about being actors or should I let my kids at whatever is like what you heard there is the same story for me with the West Wing. It's like when I came in and read Sam Seaborn, no one had ever been funny. They just I knew it was funny. It was funny to me. The minute I read it, I knew it was funny. You read it and you knew it wasn't angry. You knew it was just like your uncle.

And so really what it is, is about point of view. If you are an actor and you read something and you have a point of view on it and you just go, oh, I know, I know this. I know what this is. That's what you have to offer. And sometimes you're the only person in the world that has that. Yeah. This is great. I love talking to you. I want to see you on the beach.

In Hawaii, you're always on that Stairmaster. I'm very impressed with your cardio. No, no, no. I don't get on that anymore. Oh, well now. What? I walk. I mean, fuck that. You know, that stuff. Also, when you're in Hawaii, be outside. Outside. Exactly. You're going to be outside. Well, you and I will take a good walk. That was fun.

He's such a good dude. Can you think of anybody better you'd rather run into in Hawaii sitting on a beach than Ed O'Neill? I mean, right? I mean, I could talk to him for a thousand years. I hope you had as much fun as I did. And now it is time to check the lowdown line. Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551.

So have at it. Here's the beep. Hi, Rob. My name is Steph and I'm from Rhode Island. And my question is a little something, something. I want to know what's the most exciting thing that you look forward to every year to do for fun? Hi, Rob. This is Mary from Boston. Bye. So we had Steph and Mary were getting in on there. I like that. The thing I look forward to most every year is

I think, listen, maybe it sounds kind of lame, but I got to say it's Christmas with my family, I think. I really do. I love the holidays. I love, you know, everybody getting together. I'm usually in the middle of shooting my season of whatever show that I happen to be on or movie or whatever. So, yeah.

I'm ready for the break. Super, super ready. And then just, you know, having my coffee or my non-alcoholic beer or my cigar and the fire and the dogs and the kids. And I'm very into my one present I get. And I usually get one. It's usually really, listen, don't feel bad for me, but I like one present as opposed to a bunch of other whatever. I already know what I'm getting this year because my wife isn't capable of surprising me.

She just was like, I got you your birthday present. I'm like, it's July. So I know what I'm getting. And by the way, that's why I'm looking forward to Christmas because I already know what I'm getting. So I'm going with Christmas. And thank you for calling the lowdown line. And everybody out there, dial in. Give me some more questions. Appreciate it. Next week, more fun to be had here. Thanks for subscribing. Give us some five-star reviews. Those are always helpful. And we'll keep putting stuff together for you. See you next week.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Jeff Ross, Adam Sanks, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Our talent bookers are Gina Batista, Paula Davis, and Britt Kahn. And the music is by Devin Tory Bryant. Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, and we'll see you next week.

I'm literally with Rob Lowe. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

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