George Lopez: You Should Stay On TV
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That's right. Discover automatically doubles the cash back earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with Cash Back Match. Now that's a real crowd pleaser. Everyone knows how it ends. Double the cash back. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. What's happening? What's up, Rob? You look like you've either been lying on the beach or you've been more likely on the golf course. I've been on the golf course. I knew it!

Welcome to Literally with Rob Lowe, and thank you all for the support of the show. It's just been going great, and the only reason it's going great is because you're listening. So thank you in advance for the support. Today is a really good one. I'm just going to warn you, it's good. So...

Pull up a chair, pull over to the side of the road. This is a really unexpectedly different talk with somebody who I've just been a fan of forever because he's a groundbreaker in his field. He's hilarious. And, you know, I love funny people if you've been listening to the podcast, but funny and thoughtful.

are a really, really rare combination. And you're going to hear stories about this man's life that are just beyond belief. So I'm really happy to share with you my inspiring and funny talk with George Lopez. What's your handicap? What are you playing to these days? I think it's about a good 11. But, you know, I've been playing since 81 and, and, uh,

I used to say I don't play for the score. I play for the temperament because I had a really bad temperament growing up. But it helped me kind of rewire myself where I wouldn't throw things or wouldn't let it affect the next shot. And that's a huge part of what I think helped me in business because we come from a culture where

If two people got in a fight, they might not ever talk again in their whole life. They might be too proud to say, hey, man, you know, I was wrong or, you know, can I talk to you for a second? You know, that fight we got into, you know, I don't know if you realize you hurt me when you said this. None of that happened. Those people would just ignore each other for maybe the rest of their lives. So I didn't want to do that, and I saw that.

growing up where people just kind of remove people from their lives. And in golf, it just kind of, it was so difficult for me to get a hold of. So foreign a game that I liked it. And all of the traits that I think, you know, either my baseball coach told me was wrong with me or my little league coach told me it was wrong with me. All kind of came together.

When I started to play golf, I quit. I cheated. You'd say, what'd you take on that all? You know, I had a six. You had a six?

Let me see. And really, when you realize that you're only cheating yourself, you start to realize that the score isn't important, but like the rules of golf, the integrity, not moving the ball, not, you know, looking to see around if anybody's around, rolling it over and stuff like that. And I had a lot of those things early on. But we were always trying to get by on people. And golf completely, completely...

eliminated that from my life. That's amazing. It's such a great articulation of, I think, why the game becomes an obsession for people because a lot of people...

Probably right now. So listening to this podcast or hitting the forward button, I hate golf. And one of the, going to talk about the George Lopez show. That was my favorite show in the world. What are these guys doing? Let's move on to things. But it's, that's such a great articulation of it because that's why we love it. That's exactly why we love it. And. But then, you know, going to the George Lopez show when, when.

When I heard about other, I mean, you know, I was almost the last comedian to get a shot. And all you really wanted was a shot. You know, everybody says like, you know, whether it's a boxer, whether it's an actor, you know, just want a shot. You know, I would say I never did this. Even they made movies. I never fought. I could have been a contender. But I saw guys go in the machine and out of the machine.

in a span of like two months and then never get back to that level again. You know, I played golf with a friend of mine who was so naive that when things started to happen for him, he wasn't prepared for either the change that show business brings

the almost like deceit of people who are kind of working behind you to maybe they might say, "Hey, maybe this guy's not as good an actor as we thought he might be." You know, sometimes comedians can act. Who's gonna tell him it's gonna get... And he just kind of got in and got spit out and never got back to that level. So by the time that I got to have an opportunity,

Because of, I think because of golf, I wanted to fight everybody. And then I had a producer that said, hey, man, listen, man, you know, you need to, you know, relax. And then if there's an issue, I'll tell you if you should get upset or I'll tell you not to worry about something. And instead of, you know, it driving me crazy, I kept like a very calm demeanor.

And I just did my work and I didn't feel like everybody was out to get me. And I didn't feel like we ever had a problem that could be resolved. And I never felt like I was either lucky to be there or...

I didn't think like I didn't deserve it. I'd done my work just like somebody preparing for anything. And I think golf, you hit balls and you go and you keep going by yourself. And, you know, I rode all the time at home and I went to the clubs all the time. I didn't hang around the club like a lot of guys did. I thought that kind of diminished your impact if a guy went.

and did a set but then hung around three hours or waited for people to walk out and say, man, you were great. I was in and I was out. And I think all of those things prepared me for something that I never even thought I would have an opportunity to do. So when I did it, I wasn't overwhelmed by it. So when you were coming up in that era, and as you said, people got their shot, like,

The first shot would be what? You're going on Carson. Would that be like the first... Walk me through how you end up getting to the point where they go, hey, man, we want to build a show around you. So first of all... Because that's the shot of shots. Yeah. Yeah. Johnny Carson was around all of those years. As a matter of fact, growing up, being an only child, you would see either...

names like you'd see Bill Cosby there, but Reynolds was a great storyteller there. Oh yeah. Are you kidding? Yeah. He was like, even commercial, he would come back from commercial and everybody would be laughing. And Johnny Carson would say, but Reynolds is telling some off color jokes to the audience, but it was kind of legendary. Oh yeah. So, so you see all of those things and without, you know, I mean,

social media and all those other distractions that that's what everybody was watching. So to see all of that, to see the star, to see Johnny Carson, to to know that for a comedian, that was, you know, the high the high mark. Eddie Murphy did it. Leno Letterman, Jimmy Walker, all of the guys. Drew Carey was Drew Carey did it. Drew Carey was living in his car.

He got a chance to do The Tonight Show. He was incredible and so, you know, so innocent and funny and unassuming. And he couldn't believe it. So after he's done, he's standing there and Johnny Carson is waving him over, which is like the best thing that can ever happen. And Drew's like, me? And he's like, come over. And he was just so sweet that the next day he was a huge star. Literally in those days, because in those days, TV was such, like,

The ratings were such and the people who are watching that it literally overnight. You were a star. Legitimately overnight. Yeah. So he had a deal. He started to do a show, started to work at, you know, Warner Brothers on a show. He sold it to ABC. And all of a sudden, you know, you're so proud of this guy. And you're a man. That guy's like one of us. But not all of us get that opportunity. So I remember that I was working at the Maxim Hotel in the Playboy Girls of Rock and Roll.

That sounds like the best job. That sounds like what you work your whole life for. To me, like I would go on Carson hoping I get that job. That's right. Yeah.

so there's nudity then there's yes for seven minutes and then there's more nudity and then there's another comedian then everybody who was nude comes back on stage for one last number and the show's over it's amazing that's to me that would have been the shot i would have been like i've made it i don't need to do anything more so so so in that so in that i remember uh

I was looking at the live section of USA Today and Johnny Carson had announced his retirement and it said that there would be six more people that would be on the show between July...

90 and May of 91 when he was going to retire. I remember. Yeah. It becomes like Willy Wonka. You know, there's six tickets, six new guys. And I'm not thinking I'm in a hotel in Las Vegas and I'm not thinking I'm going to be that guy because I was kind of what, what I never wanted to be was a guy who only could make money on the road. So as I read that, I thought,

wow man that's you know it's amazing it's like Willy Wonka so somehow I get back in LA

And Jerry Seinfeld's manager, Shapiro West, George Shapiro and Howard West, Seinfeld was on. And they saw me and they were kind of interested in me. And then the guy, Jim McCauley from the Tonight Show was there. And then as I was showcasing, McCauley says to George, are you representing this kid? And he's like, yeah, we're thinking about it. Well, if you do, tell him, you know, I think it's interesting. He should prepare some stuff and

And, you know, give us a call. So when I got off, they said, hey, we got you the Tonight Show. They were just standing next to the guy from the Tonight Show. But then I spent a week working on... By the way, let me just pause you right there. For people who are not in show business, you just heard great show business distilled down to the perfect story. The guy from the Tonight Show says he should prepare something. We'll be interested.

The people in showbiz tell George he's got the Tonight Show. Right. And they have nothing to do with it. All they were doing was standing next to the guy from the Tonight Show. That's show business in a nutshell. Continue. This story is amazing. So I go. So I prepare for a week, 10 days, 10 hours a day. I'd fall asleep with the notes on my chest. I'd wake up. I'd keep writing. So.

I go to Macaulay's office and it's there on Burbank, right across from Derwiener Schnitzel in Burbank. Where all the great art happens. Yes, of course. Right near Derwiener Schnitzel. Yes. Right. Johnny Carson did that. So I literally go to the guy's office and it's like me and you right now. And he's standing behind the desk and he goes, okay, let's see what you got.

And I'm by myself and I just start talking with this material that I presented and he's done. He doesn't laugh. It's just sitting there. And at the end he goes, okay, um, the beginning, I don't like the beginning, but move the middle to the front and then move the ending story to the middle and then find an ending and, um, you know, do it for a week and come back. So, um,

I went back to this place on Barham that I was living, worked on it again. And by chance, I was at the improv like a week later and he walks in and walks over to me and he says, hey, are you going to do any of the stuff that I'd asked you to do? And I said, yeah, I can do it. You know, I'll do it.

So it's one of those, you know, night rob that the audience is a little bit higher. They're a little bit more energetic. I go up there and, you know, I catch it. You know, I catch seven minutes of it. And when I walk off, he follows me into the hallway, sticks out his hand. He goes, hey, man, congratulations. You know, you got the Tonight Show. I was like, wow. I got the Tonight Show.

So then I get bumped by Bill Cosby. It's, it's, it's November of 91. I get bumped by Bill Cosby. And usually, you know, I, I, they said, Hey man, you got bumped. And then. And by the way, what that, that means for the showbiz people is like, you would go there, but if you were not maybe quite at a particular level of fame, there was always that chance that the show ran long. You weren't going to be on it. You're bummed. So when, when big dog Bill Cosby comes on and you're just brand new George Lopez, you're

You know, you're in danger. So now every comedian said, man, I got bumped and I never got on. And then, you know, I was going to go on and I got bumped and I never got on. So I was like, man, it's not going to happen. So two days later, they call me again. They go, hey, you got next week. So it's my it's it's Bob Newhart, myself.

And Lisa Stansfield, who had that song, Been Around the World, Been Around the World. Yeah, hell yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's us three. I go over there, I do the Tonight Show with Bob Newhart, who's 90 at that time. And I mean...

So you're just like, wow. And Lisa was hot. I was hot. Johnny was, and I did it, man. And Johnny, you know, at that time, I think he was getting death threats. So he was being followed by the Burbank police. So in the hallway after the show. Who wants to kill Johnny Carson? Other than Jay Leno. I mean, obviously we know, we know Jay tried to kill him for years. We know that.

Yeah, that's a great one. So two Burbank police come around the corner and then here comes this little man in these Zachary Allsuits, you know, polyester. I mean, clearly polyester with the pockets, with the flaps over the pockets. And it's Johnny and they say, clear the hall. But then I go stand in the doorway because I was just on the show. So I'm like, I'm on the doorway.

So the two cops come by. Here comes Johnny Carson. He's tiny. He's older. And then two other police behind him. And he stops at my doorway there and extends his hand. He says, hey, young man, did a nice job. Jim was telling me about you. It's nice to have you on the show. And, you know, maybe you can come back on before I leave again. But I enjoyed having you on. And I was just like, I couldn't believe it, you know.

Wow. And he had these liver spots, Rob. I looked at his hand. He had these liver spots on his hand. I mean, imagine looking at Johnny Carson as close as you and I. It was like a foot and a half away. He had these liver spots on his forehead, and he had the little comb over. And I was just like, I'm taking in every line and every liver spot on Johnny Carson's face because

you know, that's the only other time I saw him, but it was kind of a, an amazing. And it's a good lesson for, for other celebrities who may be listening to the podcast. Like when you meet your fans, they're looking at your liver spots. Let's, let's just, do you know what I mean? They may be telling you they love the West wing or the George Lopez show, but they're really doing is counting the liver spots and

Well, you know, you've always been a very attractive person. So I go to Houston and I land in Houston and the driver says, as we're at the red light, the driver says, this place across the street has the most incredible barbecue. My show's on. We're doing a concert in Houston. I go, let's go in there. I go in there. As I get to the cash register, the woman says to me, hey, you're on TV. I say, yes, I am. And she looks at me and she goes, wow, you look different. You should stay on TV. That's what she said. Wow.

You should stay on TV. You should stay on TV. Oh my God. I said, wow, man. Hold that thought. We'll be right back.

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There's so much of that stuff that, I mean, I think you're great at what you do, but there's so much of that stuff that you live with every day. And it's things you can't believe that, there's not many things that you can't believe happen in your career, but there's things you can't believe that people would say to somebody never having ever seen them before.

For sure. My friend David Crosby has a philosophy on that. And, you know, David feels like, you know, and David's been an icon, a musical icon since 1960, what, 65, whatever? Right.

And still is, you know, and, and he has a philosophy and he also looks very specific. I mean, like there's no, like, you know, when you've seen David Crosby. Right. Yeah. And his thing is that he feels like when he shows up in people, in, in people's lives,

That it short circuits their – I believe it actually short circuits their reality because I've existed in a two-dimensional form either on – either with the music or a photo or an interview. It's two-dimensional and now I'm three-dimensional and I'm in front of somebody and they're – literally their reality is so challenged.

That they'll say anything. And I'd like to, it'd be great to do a book of quotes of like that, of you should stay on television. Maybe you and I should just do that book. It's a great title. You should stay on television. I think we know a lot of the same people, yeah. You know, it's interesting because of...

You know, I spent a lot of time alone. I grew up in San Fernando, Mission Hills. I didn't know my biological father. My mother was not healthy and my grandfather wasn't biological. My grandmother was. My grandmother was kind of tough on me, but they worked all the time. And it's almost like, you know, there's no reason why a kid who spent so much time alone

would ever succeed at anything. I mean, I don't think anybody expected anything from me, but in watching TV and in watching those things and in not having either family or not having a male figure, you know, when I started to play golf on a dare, those clubs and my temperament and the cheating and the leaving and the quitting,

almost became a surrogate family. And, you know, if I hadn't have played golf, if I hadn't have, you know, learned those hard lessons, I'm not sure that I would be where I am. You know, I always felt different from the guys that I grew up with. Not better, I just felt different. And, you know, I've told the story that a baseball coach

gave, you know, he bought some equipment at San Fernando High and he gave us these booklets of car wash tickets to sell, but I didn't sell any because I wasn't a salesman. I was getting introverted. And then he says, you owe me, you owe me, you know, $300. I go, for what? For the tickets? I said, I didn't sell any. He goes, well, you know, you're responsible because, you know, this equipment's not going to pay for itself. So he and I got into a big fight and he was the first guy really to get into my face and say that I was a quitter and that I'd

wasn't connected to anything or devoted to anything. And when something got tough, that I was going to pack it in. And it wasn't until, you know, at El Carrizo and Sylmar that I quit. When I was playing golf, I was leaving. These guys go, where are you going? Oh, I'm leaving, man. I got something to do. I was, you know, just frustrated that that guy's voice rang in my head.

And it's one of those things that it just rings in your head. I heard it. And, uh,

I went to the school maybe four years after I graduated and waited for all the players to leave and walked up to him and apologized to him and said, hey, man, I'm sorry the way I treated you when I was here. You were right. And he's like, that's what you came to tell me. And I had never, ever, ever apologized. I mean, I opened with, talked about removing people from your life. And I had never apologized to a man who,

for the way that I behave. And I don't think that I could have gone a day knowing that he taught me those lessons and not going back and thanking him for teaching me those lessons. It's funny hearing you talk. You've done so much work on yourself. And it seems to me like you've

Done it in a way that's really, really, really interesting. Like as you're as you were coming up, my guess is you didn't have the time or the money to do proper therapy. So you took the mentorship where you could find it is what I'm kind of getting. Right.

And it's almost like, you know, the unfortunate part now is, you know, I'm 59 and you think that, you know, when you're growing up and then I was still doing high stand up in high school. I started right before we graduated. And then in your 20s, you're doing these clubs and you're gone. I started to travel on the road and then I got married in.

my early 30s and even that was a little bit of a double life thing um and then when i started to do my show in the 2000s again it's a it's a uh it's another part of your life you're locked away so the relationship part of of my life at 59 has never has never developed

or the connection to somebody because everything that I chose to do, I could do by myself. I could go on the road by myself. I could golf by myself. And then when I started to get involved in relationships, since I didn't see healthy relationships, I couldn't connect to somebody because I just didn't know how. Those tools, I never had those tools.

One, I relate so much, you know, and then there's the other element to it that people will say that at whatever age you are when you become famous, if you become famous, you're frozen in time at that age. Yeah. Like, and which would make me a permanent 18-year-old. That's not good in a 57-year-old's body. No, no. Right? Right.

And it's true. And the reason you're such an inspiration and a survivor is that you have this kind of insight. And I'm just frankly blown away that you've done it with sort of ad hoc, put together with your own thinking and the people that have come across you.

Your, your transom, whether it's the, the baseball coach or, or, or what you've learned from golf, you've synthesized it in such an amazing way from like, you know, I, I've, I, I've been lucky that I've had really good gurus that I've had the access and the knowledge to seek out, you know, in my, in my journey, you know, which is very different and yet also very similar. Never felt, I always felt different than my, than when I was a little kid, always. And, and it was shy.

Which people like, wait, you're an actor. You're a comedian. What do you mean? You're shy. George Lopez. You're hilarious. It's like, no, no, I'm shy. Right. Yeah. And you know, and same, same. And even feeling different doesn't mean you felt better. Like all the guys I'm still friends with, with all the guys I went to high school with, and I didn't feel better than them. And even though they had fathers and they had mothers and, you know, their parents would come and, uh,

You know, watch them play baseball. I love baseball. And I mean, my grandmother raised me. My grandmother was was tough. And, you know, one of the one of the saddest, you know, one of the saddest, funniest things is, you know, so when you have 12 games in Little League and there's, you know, 12 players or 14 players every week.

one of the players' mothers is responsible for being the snack mom. And after practice, they either bring juice or chips or something for the team. I played baseball all those years that my grandmother never did. And I would be like, hey, grandma, you know...

in two weeks, you're the snack. What's that? That you have to bring. Why would, why would I go to the store and get things for you to take for your friends? Because that's what everybody does. Although that's what everybody's that. That's how I got to do it. So it, it, it, it embarrassed me to be the only kid that, that, that would leave the kids hanging and they'd go for all, for all of those years. And she never thought,

Twice about it, but it embarrassed me all those years. Oh, I totally 100% get it. And it's funny how those things are huge. And yet, as a kid, you go, well, I mean, my grandmother is a different generation. And you try to see you can survive it.

You try to justify it. Right. And then, but as you, when you become an adult and you try to grow and you try to figure out why you are the way you are, you look back on it and go, no, that's really fucking radical. Right. Right. So when you see kids now and there's so much and you know, there's therapy and then there's trauma therapy and then there's, you know, kids that don't go outside or whatever, like I, you know, you could sound like you're a thousand years old,

But the unfortunate thing for these kids is that I don't think that there's whatever ignited in me the spark of wanting to do stand-up at 11

starting to write jokes on, you know, old gas envelopes or anything I could find, and then never telling anybody my dreams. And then June 4th of 79, I graduated the 11th of June in 79, going to the comedy store in Westwood, a kid that was afraid that couldn't, you know, hand out papers in class because I just felt like everybody was looking at me to go do something that, you

I wasn't good at for years and years and years. And to continue to go back to me of all the things that I've done, the thing that I cannot explain is why somebody would go back all those years and be bad and be bad and be bad. And then the third time I was good by accident and it would Rob, it was like the first time ever feeling good.

this love, this applause, this thing. I was standing on the stage and it was almost like if it gave you new blood, like the blood that you had, nobody believed in. Now you have this new blood where you felt like it could be a possibility. And

You know, I didn't know I was going to do that good. I didn't expect to be put up earlier than I was, but it just happened. And I think, you know, even having a daughter that's 24 that said to me, you know, I thought I would be further ahead. And I said, further ahead of what? Like, of what? Of what I want to do. But she hadn't focused on what she wants to do. But the idea that somebody would say, I thought it'd be further ahead.

Again, I think for kids, you don't need, you know, all of these things to be inspired. You have to find it within yourself. Well, it's, it, that's also a connection that we both have is you started writing, you have no idea why you started writing jokes at 11. Did you say people don't do that? No, they don't do that. So it's like, why did I in Dayton, Ohio, not exactly a hotbed of show business write

decided eight years old I was going to be an actor. Right. No idea. No idea. And how did that happen? Was that in school or was that...

No, my parents took me to a community theater, the Dayton Community Theater. It's still there. It's in a different building, but it's still there. And it was – I guess they had a friend who was in the play and it was Oliver and there's little kids in it, the little whatever ragamuffins, whatever the hell they are. Yeah, yeah. And I was like struck by lightning. It was like a bad moment in a movie where I was like –

That that right there. And we were walking out of the lobby and there was a little like a poster for summer acting workshop for kids. And I asked my parents, I read it was like, I want to do that. Will you sign me up? And they were like, yeah, sure. But, you know, in their mind, I'm sure it was like if it wasn't that it'd be, you know,

summer camp or something else. But for me, it was like, this is the beginning of where I'm going to go. And I knew it in my bones, in my DNA, and no one could tell me otherwise. And it makes no sense. An eight-year-old should not know that, care about that. And it was a blessing, but it's also a curse in a weird way because now I have kids like you, what made me think of this as your 24-year-old. And you and I had the blessing curse of knowing what we wanted to do.

These kids don't know. And by the way, most people don't know. You know, they think about, they kind of have an interest in this area of life and maybe they'll try that as a job and they don't. But to have, it's hard for, it was hard for me as a father to offer advice to

when I knew what I wanted to do and you know the kids are exploring I just don't have any experience with that did you ever did you ever have that no I mean you know the gap year is an incredible thing to me the fact that somebody would get out of school and say you know I'm going to take a gap year of doing this you know and and um you know

When you tell your kids that it's like, you know, just leave me alone, you know, I'll figure it out. But time goes by so fast that, you know, you're wasting something that is so valuable that

When I don't think they're devoting their true attention to it, either you feel it or not. Like you saw that when you were eight, I was 11, you know, and, and, and when that, you know, when the coach told me that I was a quitter and in 1984, you know, I'd lost my job and I woke up and I was sleeping on my man's, uh, you know, in a duplex on his couch and it was a Monday, uh,

And I was kind of on and off of standup doing a little bit. I remember as all Lee was fighting and all he would, would fight and then come back. He wasn't sure he was going to fight. And then I thought, you know, all Lee, you know, so I thought as a, as a quitter and as a guy who I'm getting that information from that coach that morning at six 15 in the morning on a duplex in Procoyma and I didn't have a job and, and I just woke up and, and I said, well, you know, what the,

What the fuck am I going to do for my life? Am I going to get another job? And I had already done stand-up, and I thought, well, what would I do for free? And I thought, you know, I'll do stand-up for free. So that night, that day I prepared whatever material was left over from, you know, the six months before, the year before, and I said to myself that morning, I'm going to go back, and I'm going to do stand-up, and I'm not going to quit, and I don't care what happens, but I'm not quitting.

And that was the first time I did that. And when I went back, guys made fun of me like, Hey, look who's here. You know, he didn't see me in a year. I'd seen him in six months and I just kept going and I kept going and I kept going and I didn't know what was going to happen. And I just kept going and I never thought of success, but I never thought of, I never thought of success, but more importantly, I never thought of quitting. Well, you know, it's amazing. George is like, it's one thing to give a bad performance or not, or as you were saying, not do well, but,

on a TV show or whatever, because nobody's, you don't really know. You might read the reviews, but there's no live audience. But to be a comedian and to not do well, that's got to be painful. Is that, and when you say not do well, you're talking about you tell a joke and it's silent.

Fucking eating it. Just eat it. You eat it for years, you know. There used to be a place called the Natural Fudge in Hollywood, and it was like the first... It was just in a rundown area over there at this kind of... Behind KTTV, that old back over there, badass thing. It's called the Natural Fudge, and it was just this...

Little building, there was sprouts, and I'm looking at this. They made you buy food if you were going to perform. Oh, God. Jesus. I may have done the worst. I've done worse since then, but maybe the worst ever. And I got in my car, and I was driving down the 170 right by Roscoe, and I started to cry.

And I'm like, you know, driving, crying. I'm like, you know what, man? Fuck this, man. I don't need this shit. It didn't come easy. I'm like, I don't need this bullshit. And I remember just, you know, wiping my eyes and getting closer to my off ramp and getting off and, you know, waking up in the morning and saying, no, I'm going back. I mean, but that night, for that seven miles was maybe one of the most difficult personal moments

Behind the wheel, just frustrated. I don't need this shit. I'm quitting. Fuck it. I'm no good. And in the morning, you know, I wasn't better. I wasn't funnier in the morning. But I just got up and I did it again, man. You know what I love about having this talk with you is I would never, ever have suspected that this was your journey. Ever. And, you know, and it's like,

It's that old thing of like, we look at other people and I'm like, you're fucking George Lopez, dude. You're a legend. You're, you're a trailblazer. You're a legend. You're hilarious. You, you know, you were, you've, you've been on the scene forever. And, and, and you, I would look back, I would just assume and do the math in my head, knowing nothing that, you know, sure it was what it was, but you don't.

People don't realize what other people's journeys are. And it doesn't matter if you're like George Lopez or me or whoever, people listening. It's like it's just a great reminder that we don't know the suffering or the journeys that people have been on. And a lot of times we assume that people have had it easy because they've

been uh successful and you just don't you just don't know man i would never have known that this is your story it's really really really really inspiring and and good to hear so what i tell people is um and i'm not an advice giver but if i see somebody that say man if you ever wanted to do something do it it's never too late to do it you know um

don't tell anybody your dreams. Don't tell anybody what you want to do. Just inspire yourself. Like if you can inspire yourself, you know, looking for somebody to inspire you or looking for somebody for advice, you know, my wife, my ex-wife, God bless her. So, you know, in 2005, you know, the Emmys were kind of not doing very well. And then they decide, I think in 2005, you

that they were going to have like different comedians be hosts, you know, guest hosts. So I think it was myself, Brad Garrett, Ray Romano, Cone O'Brien, Bernie Mac, maybe Sarah Silverman. And we all, all presented channeling, all presented things at different times. So that was on a Sunday and I went to, well,

rehearsal that Saturday I was preparing my stuff and my wife found my notes you know when she's looking at my notes and she looks at me and she says you're not going to do this shit are you this is the shit you're going to do no I said yeah that's the shit I'm going to do she goes first of all it's not funny and it's racist and I said it's not funny it's racist I said well I'll tell you what why don't you let me worry about it why don't you you know

So we get in a fight that morning. I go to rehearsal. I do it. And it's not even in the back of my head. Like, you know, I'm not going to let her destroy, you know, what I'm that's me. Like I'm working on me. That's why in the beginning I said I'd never let anybody, you know, look at my stuff or ask somebody. So so I do it. And she has this face like, you know, I think you're making a big mistake. And I'm just like, you know what?

If it is, it's my mistake. Right. So the Sopranos are there six feet under. Everybody loves Reimus. It's a great time in TV. Yes. Yes. So we're sitting next to each other and they come and get you. The escort come and get to you. And I stand up and she stands up and I said, you know what? You stay here. And she goes, what? I'm going with you. I said, you stay here.

I said to her, you burned your backstage pass yesterday. So do me a favor and stay here. Right? So I go out there and I presented the first Emmy for reality TV. That's all your fault. God damn it. It was the first. That is my fault. So they gave me, they gave me the first Emmy. So I said,

I went out there and said, you know, survivor, people on an island. I said, you know, let's let them go to East L.A. and see how long they last. You know, would they last a season? And then I had a joke about Big Brother. And I said, you know, 14 people living in a house. I said, it's been done.

So everybody at that point, everybody's fucking rolling. Like the whole place is rolling. And then I said, you know, extreme makeover where they take somebody who's unattractive and in an hour, they're beautiful. I said, but isn't that what a 12 pack does? So, so killer jokes, killer, killer, killer, killer, killer. So the next day,

The LA Times says that I'm like a Latino Will Rogers. And they have that quote. Oh, yes. 14 people in a house. It's been done. It says George Lopez. And the guy that wrote it said, this guy is just like, you know, he gets, he's just cultural. He does this thing. It's in the paper. We go back there. And, and again, like,

She didn't believe, didn't think. And it was a success. Everybody did great. And I did great. But I didn't let that person get to me. I didn't let them think. So, you know, my thing was never to show anybody my cards. And I would play my cards myself. Well, it's so smart because I've been married forever to my wife. And the one place I know that I cannot trust her is –

comedy and what i'm gonna say publicly and i think i because they're they're scared we're gonna bomb right you know they're scared we're gonna not do it because they they they love us but she i cannot tell you how many times i've had that you're not gonna say that are you saying that you but that you had the balls to go out and do it i remember i was at that emmys i remember it now um you crushed it i remember that joke i mean that joke was huge by the way it's such a

well-constructed 14 people in house. It's been done. Been done. That's a lot of TNT in two sentences. And we'll be right back after this.

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But also, you know, I got discovered by Sandra Bullock. Sandra Bullock was really the first person to see me and take an interest in me.

I didn't know Sandra Bullock was a talent scout. I need to know more about this. How did this happen? So her mother passes away in the early 2000s. She's very disillusioned with the business, and she had just done Miss Congeniality. She's like the biggest star, Sandra Bullock. And somebody asked her, a person that she was working with, to come and see me.

And she came to see me and she had an idea for a show that was more centrally about teenagers. And I remember backstage, she said, you know, after seeing you, your life is like a train wreck. Your comedy is like a train wreck.

You can't turn away from. And I want to, you know, have a meeting with you. I want you to come and talk to me about what your family's like. And I remember I was at Whitsitt hitting golf balls. The meeting was at two o'clock at Fortis over there, right off by the old Tower Records on Sunset. And at one o'clock, I'm hitting golf balls and my manager calls me and he says, are you on your way?

And I said, no, man, I'm not. You know, I'm over here hitting golf balls. What the fuck are you doing? You know, they're waiting for you. I said, I said, I said, hey, man, you know, what's she going to do for me? I mean, what is she going to do? She goes, hey, listen, she wants to see you. She's already saw you. She's interested in you. I said, but what is she going to do for me? You know, just to defeat us, you know, kind of a defeatist attitude, maybe a little bit afraid, but also.

you know, really, what was she going to do for me? So he says, go over there. So I remember I left all these golf balls. I told the guy next to me, I have these balls. And I went over there and we talked for maybe, you know, three hours and we had lunch and, and she kind of got it, you know, and she kind of got the idea of the show around a guy who didn't have a father, who had a mother that was overbearing and his wife expected him to be a better husband. But

His mom still treated him like a boy. That's what we decided. And I remember the Chicago Bulls were winning all these championships and Phil too. They won with the triangle. So I thought to myself, this show is going to be like a triangle. I'm going to be the triangle between my mom and my wife. I'm going to be the triangle before how I raise my kids and how my wife thinks I can raise the kids. And in that triangle, I found some success.

So as she was walking me down the stairs and she opens the door, I'd look at her and I said, listen, I don't know what's going to happen here. And this is something that's never been done successfully on TV. So if I don't ever get a chance to see you again, or if I just want to say thank you for taking an interest in me. And she looked at me and she said, why don't you worry about being funny? And why don't you let me worry about all of that? And it really was the first time

at 41 that anybody ever really had my back and it was somebody that wasn't related to me. That's so great. That's a really inspiring story and it does not happen all the time. No, it doesn't happen. And I remember I remember

when we were living in, in Sherman Oaks and Drew Carey show had syndicated and it's indicated for like a huge amount. That's when, you know, those guys were making huge amounts of money. Roseanne made, you know, $250 million and, and, and Drew Carey had syndicated for like a hundred million. They made a hundred million each. And, and I, and I remember, you know, I went to the kitchen there and this like,

milk and she just opens a paper and she says, you know how much money Drew Carey made last year? And I said, no. She goes, he made $40 million. And I was just, you know, I got up, I got some golf balls from my garage and I was hitting some golf balls in the dark. And my neighbor across the street, Jan, you know, she saw me hitting golf balls. She walks by and says, what the fuck are you doing? I look at her, I go, you know what Drew Carey made last year? Hey.

I said $40 million. And she comes over and she looks at me. She goes, you know, my man fucked you carry like you're George Lopez. And I wasn't doing anything like, you know, do yourself a favor and don't worry about what you carry is doing. Don't worry about what anybody's doing. You're a funny dude. Like just keep doing your thing, not knowing anything about what was, what was down the line. She was just telling me pretty much, don't worry about anybody else and just be your, be your own person. And, uh, uh,

the guy that did Drew Carey show ended up doing my show. Wow. And with Sandra and, uh, it's wild, Rob. I never, you know, these things that have all happened, man, that, you know, I remember, I remember seeing the end of Drew Carey show and it said created by, uh, Bruce Elford and Drew Carey. And I would look at my wife and I go, you know, where's my Bruce Elford? Like, when am I going to get a shot? And, uh, we were at, uh,

uh we were at the uh in pasadena at that big hotel they used to do the t uh the ritz carlton the tca is the ritz carlton absolutely so we're up on this we're up on this floor and everybody's outside and sandra's in one room and you can see her little tv in the hallway you know she's in talking about me and then we go to the next one and bruce is in there and i look at my wife and he's in this little little tv screen and i go hey

There's my Bruce Elford right there. And he's in there talking about me and talking about the show. Crazy shit, man. Wow. It's crazy.

You don't ever, I mean, like I never imagined it. You can't, you can't either control it, but also there's success and there's failure. Like it could have not, it could have not worked. And timing and timing plays a huge part in everybody's lives. No matter what, no matter what they're doing, what, what you, whether in show business or not in show business, timing is a big, is a really, really, really big thing. Timing is a big thing.

But fear also, you know, fear intimidates people and maybe they may not share with anybody, but, you know, timing can't have its place if fear keeps you from even getting in the game. You know, so I was never, I got to that point in the 90s where I just thought since I was afraid of everything growing up and I was afraid of, you know, stand up, I really kind of

I analytically said, like, what am I afraid of? I mean, am I afraid of going up there and nobody laughing? I mean, that kind of happens to everybody. So if that is the worst thing that can happen to me, well, let me just work as hard as I can work to avoid that happening, which I didn't have in the 80s. I created, I kind of found that in the 90s. And once I stopped worrying about what other people were doing and started to just work on myself,

It just, everything changed. Who was the, who was the funniest person you ever saw?

In a club, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a club, like, like where you saw them and they were just electric. Like you just could not believe how they were in that moment. So in 1987 at the ice house in Pasadena before Dana Carvey was on Saturday night live, this guy was the most incredible comedian I ever saw the church lady, the,

the character from Wayne's World was in there. He did Scarface. He did all of the characters that you ever saw in his movies were in his act. And he was only there two nights because he was doing Wise Guys with Burt Lancaster and Kurt Russell, Kurt Douglas. And he could only work two days. And I remember that,

The second day he came, he got five standing ovations, five encores the first night. And then I remember when he showed up the second night, I asked him a simple question. I said, hey, man, how did you get so funny? Like, how does this happen? And he says, you know what, George? It's all attitude, bro. This is like, if you believe it,

they'll believe it. And I never walk up there and say, hey, how about a round of applause for Rob? Wasn't he great? Because I get to the business. Like I walk up there, I get to the business. I don't ask them how they're doing. I tell them how I'm doing and I just drive. You know, I'm the driver. And for a little guy like that,

and you, and you saw them work, it's true. And maybe one of the most valuable lessons that, that, and I took advice. I didn't want somebody to say like, what the fuck does that mean? I took, I took that advice. I took every, every advice that I thought, um, was real. And here's a guy that was the funniest person I ever saw. I took that advice that, that put me on the right path too. By the way, that is such a great piece of advice. Um,

For everybody. Like if you have like the opening gambit of how you doing tonight? I love that. That's fucked. Tell them how you're doing. It's like it's so it that's so good at waiting. You know, it's funny because I agree with you that I think of all and I've been.

Plus to work with a bunch of funny people from, you know, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Ricky Gervais, Gary Shandling, you name it. I've been really Mike Myers, Dan, all of them, the murderer, the killer, the assassin. It's Dana. Yes. He's just when you look, see, I did live scenes with him. Okay. On Saturday Night Live. Yeah. And in Wayne's World.

And when you looked in his eyes, you felt like you were on stage with a wild animal. Like, like he would murder you for a laugh and not in a, not, but not in a bad way. Not he it's, it's like he, it's like you talk about the eye of the tiger and

No one has the comedic eye of the tiger. Like he's a fucking killer. Like his, his appearances on, on Carson, he used to do a bit where all he did was, you know, the stupid cups of water they put in front of you when you're on a talk show, those mugs. Yeah. By the way, I think in the old days didn't have water in them, but with my luck, I came up late and they just have water in them. But Dana's bit was, he would just drink from the fucking cup and go so good. And it just destroyed. He he's,

He's the best. I think that's a great choice. And also, he was a guy that could do an hour and make it seem the most effortless performance you'd ever seen anybody do.

I did a thing with him up in the Bay Area for Tony La Russa's dog rescue thing, and Dana was up there, and he did an hour, and it was the most effortless hour I've ever seen anyone do. That guy was just... I don't think he gets enough credit as...

You know, maybe that's one of the top comedians. George Carlin does, Pryor does, C.K. or DeChapelle. But that dude does not get the credit that he deserves. He's incredible. I have something I want to ask you. So when I... Because, you know, I'm very professional at this, George. I'm a professional podcasting host now. You're great at it. Well, thank you. And it's just because I have a staff that...

provides me with information. And, you know, what's great is most folks I have on the show, I know and have a relationship with like you and I've run into each other in golf courses at baseball games and we're acquaintances, but every once in a while, the staff will find some shit in the panic. That's not true. George Lopez was not a,

Witness in the trial of Michael Jackson. That's not true. Is it true? Yeah. So that's, you know what? This is a great question. I'm going to tell you. So the Laugh Factory did these comedy camps. Jamie Masada at the Laugh Factory did.

did these comedy camps with underprivileged people, with underprivileged kids. So Chris Tucker did it, Jay Leno did it, Arsenio did it, a lot of guys did it. So I did it and I get the Arvizos. I get Gavin, Star, Davilin, and the Mother Janet. And they lived up here, like in Duarte, they took the bus over there and I became their comedy coach.

And I, you know, didn't know them. They were poor. I would take them to Greenblatt's next door. Um,

And I give them money for bus fare. I would buy them sandwiches. They'd take the bus back. And I was with them for about, you know, about a month or so, two months. And then they did the show and Gavin did the show. Gavin was pretty good. And then all of a sudden I get a call from the mother, hysterical that Gavin is sick and that they found a tumorous cancer, a tumor in his stomach, a pretty big tumor. He's at the hospital here on Sunset, the children's hospital. So I go over there and

And I probably should say allegedly, because it's going to get a little bit tricky right now. Dicey. So, so, so I tried to, I tried to, I went over there and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, cause I'm gonna show you something at the end. I went over there and, um,

and was a friend, and then he needed blood. So we tried to do a blood drive for him. We did a show at the Laugh Factory to try to raise money. And I got him on Fox News to do a story about him. So Michael Jackson is allegedly watching Fox News and calls Fox to get the number of the kid

in the hospital and he calls the hospital and starts talking to Gavin on the phone. I don't know man, it's tricky. Allegedly, so when I go over there, Gavin is like asleep during the day and I said, "So what's going on with Gavin? Like why is he asleep?" "Oh, Michael called him." "Well, Michael Jackson called him." And I said, "He did?" "About what?" "Oh, you know, he called you, they talked for like five hours." You know, and I said, "Five hours?"

So he would call them in the middle of the night and allegedly they would talk. And, you know, he was at the point where he wasn't eating, but he was getting better, but he wasn't eating. But Michael was calling a lot. And, you know, they said to me, George, you know, tell him to eat. So I said to him, I said, Gavin, you know, if you eat, you get out of the hospital and I'll take you, you know, I'll take you shopping. I'll take you to the store. We'll have lunch.

So he gets out and I go pick him up and he lives in Duarte. So I pick him up and I bring him to my house in Sherman Oaks. And I take him to the Sherman Oaks mall and, you know, I buy him. I don't know what I buy. I took him and my daughter and then I bought him something. But when I take him home and I come back, my wife says, Gavin left his wallet on top of the mantle, which is why would a kid put his wallet on the mantle?

You know, whether he placed it there on purpose, whether however it got there, his wallet was there. And it was one of those wallets that like the surfers had that had the Velcro. Velcro. It closed. Sure. So I open it up. And I think at that point already, Gavin was going to the Neverland Ranch.

allegedly on the weekends and Michael Jackson had was giving the father a truck to drive allegedly and the mother a credit card allegedly to go shop and and the kids were spending the weekend at Neverland Ranch so

alleged, of course. So I opened the wallet and there's a $50 bill in the wallet. And I think, how does this kid have a $50 bill in his wallet? And I show Ann, I said, "Ann, I took this kid to lunch, he's got $50." So when I gave the wallet back to the Laugh Factory, gave it to Jamie, Jamie called the father

The father came and picked up the wallet and the father said that there was $300 in the wallet and that I took the $300 from the wallet that I took it. So when Tom Mesereau was doing his vetting, allegedly,

Jamie Masada says, well, you know, George Lopez took Gavin to lunch and they left his wallet. And then when he brought the wallet back, alleged David Arvizo said that that George Lopez stole three hundred dollars from the wallet.

So Mesereau thinks, okay, now I got somebody that looks like they're going after celebrities for financial gain. He used it in his opening argument.

uh, so I was in New York doing Regis, uh, um, Regis and Kelly and I wake up in the morning and you know, it's the biggest story. So I have the, I have court TV on and, uh, I, I walk by, I walk by, I get out of the shower and I walk by the TV and I look and I go, God, that guy looks like me. I look over and it is me. And it says, it says George Lopez, uh,

is going to get subpoenaed supposedly to testify in the Michael Jackson trial. So I get a lawyer. Mesereau calls me. He asks me if this thing is true. Mesereau is what? He's what, Michael's defense lawyer? He's Michael Jackson. Tom Mesereau is Michael Jackson's attorney. Right. So he says this is true, you know. So what people don't know is when I was on the radio in 2000,

I said that I would do a fundraiser for the family. So, but I canceled it because it became apparent to me that the father was more interested in the money than he was in having somebody, you know, help his child alleged. Right. So, so I did an appearance and the father shows up and confronts me outside the restaurant and says, Hey motherfucker, you know, what's going on with this show? And I said, motherfucker. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, what am I supposed to tell Gavin?

you know, all of a sudden you canceled the show. Like, like what am I supposed to tell my kid? I said, tell your kid that his fucking dad's trying to fucking extort money for people, you know, instead of trying to worry about the kid. And he says, is that right? And he got in my face and I was like, yeah, that's right. So, um, all of a sudden here I am in this trial, I get subpoenaed, I'm doing my show. Uh,

I hire an attorney. I rent a plane. I fly to Santa Maria. I get out and all that mayhem. I go into the courthouse. They're on a break. I get sworn. I'm standing around and I see the jury. I see Joseph Jackson. I see Catherine Jassy, the sister's alleged. And then I'm looking for Michael Jackson. I don't see him. So I'm looking around and all of a sudden I see him and he, he,

was dressed in it he looked like a nutcracker like he looked he had a red jacket with the epaulets he had the thing on a nutcracker and uh and he had i said he looked like the captain antonio at the same time like he just was so done was so done up and and and um i wasn't for anybody's side like everybody thought you know i was for the side that it was true that you know

That guy said I took $300, but while I was on the stand, Michael Jackson was looking at me. I really didn't know Michael Jackson, but, I mean, he looked, you know, just very, very, I don't know, man. I'm going to say, I hate to say it because I'm such a huge fan, ghoulish, you know, very sunken, almost grayish,

And I just, you know, was trying to smile at me and it bothered me, Rob, you know, for like three weeks after that, I wake up in the middle of the night and I just think about him and, you know, growing up and that kid and the music and all that stuff. You know, I wasn't on anybody's side. And I remember after I testified, I

The elevator was closing and him and his family was in there and he was in the middle and they said, "George, come on, get in the elevator." I said, "No, no, I'm cool. I'm cool." He's right in the middle, the elevator closes. But when the guy did the Living in Neverland, Martin Bashir, I was taping my show and after we taped the show, I was watching the interview and

I had kind of forgotten about Gavin. And then as I'm watching the interview, he's sitting there on the couch holding hands with Michael Jackson. And it really was the first time I had seen him in months. And Rob, I jumped. I may have almost like hit my head on the ceiling. I was so like, what the? I mean, whoa, man, they're holding hands. They're leaning on each other. It's just like, oh my God. Crazy. So now I'm in this. Now I'm in this thing.

And, yeah, I testified in the trial. And as a matter of fact,

Here is the artist rendering. No way. Look at that. Of me on with Thomas Mazereau. Wait a minute, though. It looks like you're one of the Menendez brothers. I know. I know they drew me. I think this is just a reject from the Menendez brothers trial. But you see. Look at that. There's Thomas Mazereau and there's Michael. He is the captain and Tennille. And there's Sneddon, the guy that really wanted him, the guy sitting down.

the prosecutor. So that is, by the way, that's the most unbelievable, like, what is it? What's the famous guy illustrator that everybody on Broadway gets done? You know, like a Hirschfeld, a Hirschfeld. That's like the world's greatest Hirschfeld you just showed me. So this guy is a Bill Robles, Bill Robles, Bill Robles. And he, he is the Hirschfeld of,

Of court renderings. That makes perfect sense. That's actually quite something. And he was a big fan of mine and he said, I'll send it to you. And it was on the news that night. So, yeah, man. And it cost me, here I try to help this kid, you know, Jamie Masada, you know, says, hey, you know, said he took $300. It cost me $75,000 to defend myself.

defend myself or present myself. Yeah. Just present yourself. Exactly. Or something that I, that I didn't do other than just try to help somebody. That's such a crazy, crazy, your life, brother. It's wild, man. That was wild. That was wild.

Your life is too... We need to have stories when we play golf together. I need to come to Lakeside and... Yeah, come to Lakeside and play, man. I'd love to see you out there. So, you know, we're getting back to it. And people need stuff to watch, man. You know? They need... Sure. People need escapism. It's one of the reasons I love doing this show. It just gives... It's just a minute for people to just chill and...

You know, it's just, you know, nobody's haranguing anybody and we're, you know, talking thoughtful shit and funny stuff. Right. That's the end of it. Yeah. Or, well, you know, you're good at it, man. So, yeah. So, so for me, you know, at 59, I,

you know, with opportunities to do other stuff, you know, and, you know, did an epic special that came out and, and, you know, there'll be no standup this year. There won't be any shows. So I'm, I'm not, uh, I'm not sure that I'll go back and never do standup again. I may, I may be done with that part of my, of my career. You know, I just think I've, you know, I think, you know, the honor that it's given me, the things that it's given me,

The Netflix thing was great. This kind of downtime has given me for the first time, I wasn't out there grinding as much. And an appreciation of something, you know, I think it might be time to put that kind of portion of my life away. Go out on top because it probably will never be what it was.

It won't be what it was. And, you know, I'm not sure if I want to travel as much. And, you know, at 59, you know, I had a kidney transplant in 2005. And you start to figure, you know, these days that I'm out there with my friends and like, I like those days. I'm not sure if I want to be in a hotel room waiting for it to get dark. You know what I mean? Well, when you put it that way, it sounds so great. Yeah.

George, you're the best. Thank you so much for coming on. Absolutely, man. And I am going to reach out to you and get your info because will you take me to Derwiener Schnitzel? It's not there anymore, but I'll take you where it's not. No, I'll take you to some great Mexican places.

What is the one that's right by- Casa Vega. Casa Vega, baby. Yeah. I went in there with Slash one time and the waiters are still there. And the waiter goes, Senor Slash, remember when you used to come in here in the 80s, man? It would be all dark and you'd come with some men. Slash was like, no, bro. No, not the 80s. I don't remember. I was slashing the 80s. I'm going to remember having lunch in Casa Vega. And it was completely-

Completely dark. Like all those guys went in there and drank all day and ate Mexican food. Yep. Oh, yeah. I remember it well. Okay. So we'll do 18 holes in Casavega. I love it, man. All right, brother. Love you, man. Thank you. Absolutely, man. Thanks. Yeah, man. Wow. That was amazing for me. I mean, I've known George peripherally for years and been a fan, but I had no idea.

The level of like self work and growth and how smart he is. I mean, I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years in therapy. According to George, I could have listened to the baseball coach. Fuck. I mean, he...

That was amazing. He is tuned up, man. He is an evolved human being. And in addition to being a 10 handicap, he may be the world's most perfect human being.

And thank you for listening to Literally. And we'll see you again next week. And oh, by the way, don't forget to go. I'm reading all of the reviews and comments, by the way. It's for all of you people who've been kind enough to give me your thoughts and pointers, whether it's on Apple or Stitcher, all the websites, particularly Apple. That's the one that gets the most traction. So if you've got an extra five minutes to spare, tell me what you think of the show. And I appreciate you. See you next week.

You have been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe. Produced and engineered by me, Devin Tory Bryant.

Executive produced by Rob Lowe for Lowe Profile. Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blairt. Talent producer, Jennifer Sampras. Please rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts. And remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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