Hilary Swank: No Gurus on Set
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Hello, everybody, and welcome to Literally. It is me once again. I'm very excited about this particular podcast because it is a talk with a former family member and lovely person and iconic actress, two-time Academy Award winner, Hilary Swank. To say that we go back together is the understatement of all history.

time. And whether you watched her in Boys Don't Cry, her first Oscar, or Million Dollar Baby, her second Oscar, or her new film out now, Ordinary Angels, she's the cream of the crop and so sweet. Let's get cracking with Hilary Swank. Why am I feeling under the weather? Yeah, you did the big press tour. I did the big press tour for my movie, Ordinary Angels, which opened Friday the 23rd. And

It was awesome. They had me running all over New York City and Los Angeles. And I got home and you know how it is when you finish like something like that. You just, your body just lets go. Oh. And here I am, sick. Are you at home on the ranch? I am not on the ranch. I'm up in Washington State now. Well, okay. So first things first, so much to talk about. So much to talk about, Rob. I haven't seen you in how long?

I don't even want to say because it's sad. It's sad. To say it's years is an understatement. I mean, it's crazy. And can we just go back for one second? I know you're interviewing me, but... No, no, you can please take full shots. I'm ready. You know when we met? When you... I remember what year it was. It was 93? Two. 92. 92.

And do you know what day it was? No. It was Halloween. That's right. And you and Cheryl had a awesome, like one of the most awesome parties I still to this day have ever been to, Halloween party. And I had met Chad September 28th, 1992. And on October 31st, he goes, hey, my brother's having a Halloween party. Do you want to come? And it was so much fun. It was your house up in Mulholland? Yeah, sure.

And I learned how to play Celebrity. Celebrity. We played Celebrity. I remember that. God, that was such a fun game. Everybody used to play that game all the time, right? I know. So much fun. Now, at that time, was that before 90210 for you or after? I'm trying to get it. That was before 90210. So, 90210 came much later. At that time when I met you, I was just 18. Okay.

Jesus Christ. And I did 90210 when I was 23. Oh, wow. So it was a lot later. I was on an ABC show at that time called Camp Wilder because Chad was also on an ABC show at the time. That's right. Oh, my God. I mean, to say we go back is the... Understatement of the year. Understatement of the century. That's true. So are you in...

I mean, is that where you live? We spend half our time in Colorado and then half our time in Washington State, where I grew up. I grew up in a town called Bellingham. Yeah, sure. And I'm here now. I do a lot of work in Vancouver, so it's just really easy to commute over the border. And when I found out I was pregnant, I was here, which was good because being in Colorado, I live at 9,600 feet. Oof. Wow.

And to put that in perspective, you know how hard it is on a plane that are pressurized at 8,000 feet? That's right. That's insane. This is 1,600 feet higher. Yeah, it's crazy. Oh, it's funny. As I get older, I do less and less well at altitude. And I get up to ski, but I can't sleep. I know. It's so, so, so crazy. And the thing was, is we found this property in 2007.

2016 we bought and then we broke ground in 2018. And by the way, you guys, I should have called you because Cheryl is like the best at all of that stuff. I should have picked her brain about it. Um,

Because it's my first time building from the ground up. But I did it. I just got lucky with timing with COVID and everything and lockdown. But the point is, is that I didn't spend that much time there before just buying because it was beautiful. And then we got there and we're like... It's...

Tell me about those beautiful twins. Oh, my God. I can't believe you're a mom. I mean, I can believe it, but like you're a new mom. It's unbelievable. I know. But I mean, it's so late in life, right? I mean, it's so much later. I remember when you and Cheryl were pregnant with Matthew and back again up at Mulhall. Remember, I took those great pregnancy pictures of you guys? Totally. That's right. That's right. I remember we were listening to...

I remember what we were listening to. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was, um, who sings that? You did. Was it Michael McDonald? Yes. Yes. You remembered. Michael McDonald. Or did you just get it from my tune? No, no, no. I remember that's what we were, by the way, still very much jamming to Michael McDonald. But at that point, I was super into it. Yep. He is awesome. Um, okay. So, so yes, my twins, I, um,

I'm in heaven. By the way, it's way more fun than I ever imagined. And no one really talks about that. Everyone's like, oh my gosh, it's the best job in the world, but it's the most exhausting job in the world or whatever you hear. But no one really talks about how fun it is. That's right. Particularly if you're down... I was always really down to dress up as...

you know, Santa Claus or whatever. Like kids like fun stuff. So if you're down to have fun, it's the best. Exactly. Exactly. It's just so cool. They're just... Every day they're doing something funny. They're so in the moment. It's a reminder of what your priorities are. They're just...

They're hilarious. How old are they now? Do you have my bird in the background? Of course I hear your bird. What bird is that? You guys used to have your African gray, Stormy, right? Stormy, yeah. Stormy would walk in and go, hi, I'm Stormy. Yeah, that's Seuss. I still have my African gray. Yes. No, that is the famous Seuss. Yes. And she hears me in here. I swear she knows I'm talking to you. And she's going, get me in there. Get me in there. Okay, first of all, how old are the twins? And then how old is Seuss?

Let's see. I got Seuss when I was, what, 17 or 18? I had one before. Unfortunately, it passed away. So I had that one at 16. This one I got at 18.

which I would never do now. You know, I was just a teenager and I would never put a bird in a cage, but we've been going the distance. I mean, I'm 49 now. I've had this bird, how long? How long is that? That's insane. I'm horrible with math, but a long, long, long, long, long time. I'm horrible with math too. And Sushwa outlive both of us. I know. They live 80, 90 years or something like that. What's the greatest thing you've ever heard your bird say? Oh, that's a good question. Um,

Oh my God. I, let me think. Um, there's so many cute things. I mean, she still says, she still sounds like Chad sometimes. No. Yep. They like have that memory. They don't forget anything. Um, and Chad taught her a monkey says, and she totally commits to it. I mean, she sounds exactly like a monkey. She still does that. When you grab your keys, you're leaving. She goes, goodbye. I love you. Oh,

So sweet. She's so fun. She's getting a little the short end of the stick nowadays with the babies. Oh, for sure. Right? We'll bounce her back up here soon. And the twins are how old? They turned 11 months old a few days ago. Oh, man. Well, congrats. I mean, you already got the message. It's the flipping all-time greatest. But listen, I'm going to tell you the cliche that everybody says, and it's true. It goes so fast, you won't believe it. You realize Matthew is 30. I know.

What? Matthew Lowe is 30. So Matthew was born when I was 19. He's 30. September 20th, right? He's September, what is he? 20th. Yeah, he's September, yeah, 22nd. 20th. Yes, 20th. No, it's the 20th. Let's bet. Matthew's going to listen to this and go, I told you, dad, you don't remember anything. His birthday's September 20th. And Johnny's

You're like, oh my God, is it? And Johnny's 28. Look at you. You're turning, changing the subject. 28. That's insane. I can't even. And Hillary, in two weeks, I'm 60. What? I can't even. What's crazy about it is you remember when you'd hear people say, I still feel so young inside and that it's just, but time's going by. And don't you, don't you just feel like everything we're talking about was just

Yes. Not that long ago? Not that long ago. I feel exactly the same. The only difference is sometimes when I catch myself in the mirror, which is every day, every second of the day, I go, when did my dad show up here? Yeah. You know what? You really do look a lot like your dad. I go like... Your dad is so handsome. He's a good person. So it's like, that's not a bad person to emulate. No, I'm lucky. He's a handsome dude. But I go, oh my God, I'm becoming my father, which is the whole... How old is your dad now? 84.

Is that right? Yeah, he's 84. Amazing. Still skiing. Is he well and healthy? Yeah, he's well. Chad and I were going to take him skiing this year. And then we both had some work that came up and we couldn't, but

You know, he's great. He's, you know, he hasn't changed at all. He looks, looks like he's 55. I love that. Tell him hi for me. I will. And you look great. Thank you. And you too. Congratulations on this show, by the way. Thank you. Thank you. Cheryl says, send Hillary my love. She was so excited. I mean, everybody's listening to this thing. These two are just catching up on family stuff, but we have to. We were a family forever and ever and ever and ever. I mean. Yeah, for a long time. For a long, okay. 15 years. Okay, so here are my, I'm going to go with my favorite Hillary thing.

memories. My all-time favorite thing, and the reason I bring this up is because I think it's super important for everybody in their lives who feel like maybe something didn't go their way, particularly young actors didn't go their way. I can remember you up for a pilot. I don't remember what it was, and you didn't get it. And this is my favorite feedback ever. Do you know the story I'm going to tell? Mm-hmm. So,

The president of CBS, right? Yes. It was a drama that you were up for. Yes. And the president of CBS was down to you and somebody else. And they didn't go with you. And his quote was, Hillary Swank is too multi-camera.

Yeah, like two half hour. Two half hour. He said, yeah, like pretty, like you're just two half hour and not even funny. He didn't even say I was funny or comedic. I was two half hour. People only want to spend a half an hour with you. After 31 minutes.

Let's face it. It's over. The time is... We'll see. Start your timer. Start your timer on this podcast. If you last more than 30 minutes with Hillary and I on this, you have proved Les Moonves wrong. That's right. I love that you even remember who it was. Oh, hello. I mean, at that time, the most powerful man in the business. And only because you didn't get that pilot or that show

I was able to do Boys Don't Cry. Okay, so, and we're going to talk about that in a second. I, many years later, was producing a TV series and starring in it. And we cast a wonderful actress who had just done a little part in Catch Me If You Can with Leonardo DiCaprio named Amy Adams.

And we did the pilot and the president of Warner Brothers Television said, I've got good news and bad news. Good news is we're picking up the show. The bad news is you've got to get rid of that actor. And I was like, why? And he said, she's, well, he didn't use, he used another phrase that you can probably guess, but it was to the extent that she's not sexy enough. Oh, God. Yeah.

Who was it? Now we got to call him out. That was Peter Roth. Peter. And so I had to call Amy as the executive producer and give her the news. And she ended up doing six episodes for us and not the whole show. Only because she did six.

And not the rest of it. She was able to do what? Junebug. Fate does not work in such mysterious ways. You've got to trust, right? You've got to really trust. You've got to really, really, really trust. And it's not easy because it's not like, you know, in your core, yeah, Hillary, you didn't get this great job you wanted, but by the way, something great is coming. Nobody tells you that. You don't know that. There's no way to know that.

But it really is the concrete evidence of when a door closes or doesn't even open, another one does. It's so true. And it's so hard to trust that, right? Because like you said, there's no for sure. But I think if you just remain open, you keep that energy open, right?

and let you feel it. Don't go, oh, something better is happening. I felt it. I was like, this really sucks.

And I felt it and then I moved on. Right. And then here's my other favorite Boys Don't Cry stat. You made $75 a day. Yeah. $75 a day for how many days? I'm going to guess it was 30 days shoot, something like that. Yeah. Something just under that, maybe 28. Yeah. 28. And then the good news is

that movie breaks out like nobody's business because of your performance. But then like, that's all the money you've got in the bank. That whole next year, whether you're schlepping to every film. I remember you at every film festival, every you working your ass off to promote it. You don't even have the money to buy the nice dresses. That's right. I love that you remember that. I know I look back at those, some of that press stuff and I was like, what was I wearing? Oh yeah. I didn't have any

money to buy anything. And I was just getting by the best I could. You know, that's also such a reminder. I was just so young too that like...

I think, remember, I signed with like a big agency right soon after that because my agent at the time was deciding that she didn't want, didn't know if she was going to be an agent anymore. And she said, you better look around and it's fine. You know, you take up some of this opportunity. And I think that this big agent was like, we're going to make so much money. And I was like that. Okay. But I really want to make sure I'm doing really well.

you know, work that resonates with me, like work that's important to me, work that challenges me as an actor and as a human. And he's like, well, yeah, I mean that too. Yeah.

But it's just like, you know, in your 20s, it's like, that's not what you're doing it for. No, for sure. For sure. And your priorities can change. I mean, now I have babies and I'm definitely like looking at my work a little bit differently. Oh, yes. I'm not going to... It's got to check all the boxes. And one of those boxes has got to be, I got to make some money too so that I can do fewer things if I so choose. Isn't it funny how that... Like, I got super lucky that...

when I had my boys, that it coincided with television being a great place to work. So I got to stay home. Because otherwise, I would have been on movie locations all of the time. And, you know, I have this conversation with Jodie Foster all the time, who the minute she had kids, you know, her priorities change. And now it's like, yeah, we've got to put kids to college. Yeah. You've got to buy diapers. I mean, I've got twins. I go through 12 diapers a day. It's unbelievable. ♪

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How about it occurred to me, I think I've heard you talk about it, that you wouldn't get Boys Don't Cry today. Yeah, because the beautiful thing is, is that now people are, we have a long way to go still, but people are more accepting of trans and the gay and lesbian people and all different types of people. They were literally at that time, it was like groundbreaking news that Ellen was gay.

Like it was a groundbreaking. People were like, what? Oh my God. You know, people were worried that they weren't going to work again. So we were talking about a very different time. And even though here we are now in a time where it's more accepted, it's still not, it's still...

a scary time to be a trans person or a gay and lesbian in this world in a lot of different places, even places in our own country. So we still have a long way to go. But yes, to talk about the fact that if this were a movie that were being made now, there would be trans people who would be auditioning and getting that opportunity. Talk about a movie way ahead of its time. I mean, that issue was not on the radar whatsoever at all.

That's right. Not at all. I mean, not at all. I mean, I think it's one of the first times that I ever... I don't really watch the news. And so I wasn't really aware of what was happening until I read the script and started digging into it and saw. People weren't even really talking about it on the news. It was like a blip if someone was murdered for being trans or gay or lesbian. It was something that was just like flew under the radar.

But talk about just the blessing of being an actor and a storyteller is that we get these opportunities to walk in these shoes and see through people's eyes in a way that we would never experience had we not been telling their story. How can you describe, if you even can, because I thought about it while it was happening and I marvel at it still, the notion of going from she's two half hour to winning the Academy Award in

in basically a year. I know, I should have been up there and said, thanks, Les Moonves. You should have. You should have. Or you could have said, or you could have said, thanks to Chad.

Oh my God, right? It's the best thing ever. I knew as I... No, it's not the best thing ever. It's terrible. But you know, I think one of the things is, is that when I had like that morning, we had our like own little ceremony and I thanked him and... Right. I felt like such a responsibility when I got up on stage to talk about this community and to talk about...

I felt like it was a deep responsibility. I was almost like this, like walking. I know these listeners can't see my face, but I was in this zone of make sure that you talk about a community that needs your voice. Yep, I get it. And...

And I was so in that. And I thought, of course, but the thing was, is I had a list and he wasn't on it because I thought, well, you're never going to forget your husband. Exactly. Sure. I totally get it. And I knew, and I think part of the way, the reason people remember it so much is there's amazing shots of Chad watching you, which are some of the, I mean, it's so, God, just was the best. It was just... It went from like this closeup of his gorgeous face, just completely...

In awe and gratitude and disbelief and like, I can't believe this is happening. And then so it looks like I'm looking at him, right? Right. Yeah. Even though he's out in the audience and you can't even see him with all the bright lights in your face. But yes, it looks like that.

And then was it a total rocket ship ride to the next? What was the next one? I know it's in the filmography, but the next thing was, oh, the Chris Nolan. After that. It was a Chris Nolan movie, right? Yeah.

Give me a Chris Nolan story. He's the man right now. No, I think it was Affair of the Necklace came next. And then... Oh, that's right. I love that one. And I think then, yeah, it was Insomnia was right after that. And Christopher Nolan is genius. I mean, it was really the only time I've... I mean, Soderbergh is very similar because Soderbergh has a deep understanding of lenses and stuff as well.

I mean, I haven't worked with Scorsese, who obviously does as well, and many other people. But from the people that I worked with, he...

is he edits as he goes. So if you're doing a scene, and sometimes I remember the very first scene I did was actually by myself and I was looking through the photos and piecing stuff together. And I remember he came in and he's like, I want to dolly in on an 80 and then I'm going to stop right here and I want to go up here in the corner and I want to be on 100 for this bit and then let's

come over here and let's track around on a 20. And he was so specific, but he knew exactly where he was cutting. He didn't do the whole scene on the dolly on the 80 and he didn't do the whole scene up here. He cut exactly where he knew he was going to use it. And I was like, wow. And so that was one of those movies that I...

did never go to my trailer. I just sat on set and watched and absorbed, especially Al Pacino and Robin Williams and being still so... I mean, I think at that point I was 20...

6 or 27. And I learned so much from Al. And I think you're good friends with Al too. Cheryl was Al's makeup artist for many, many years. For many, many years. And Al's always been a great supporter. And I mean, he's Al Pacino, man. It's... Yeah. I learned so much from him and from Chris. And I didn't have very many scenes with Robin. I think I only had one. But what a great time that was. I had... It's funny you mentioned...

only certain parts of shooting, only certain parts of scenes. And Soderbergh, the first day I shot with Soderbergh on Behind the Candelabra, it was a scene where Michael Douglas and I meet at a doorway and hug. And we shot my side of it. And then I'm waiting for him to turn the cameras around and shoot Michael. And Stephen goes, okay, good, moving on. He knew that all, he wanted, he knew he was only going to play that scene on my, I was shocked, shocked.

shocked. This is Michael fucking Douglas. You think you might want to film Michael? He's like, used to it, get it. And then, I don't know if he did this on, by the way, your movie with Steven, I love that movie. Logan Lucky, very, very great movie. I don't know what it was like on that, but when the day we wrapped Candelabra, we did the last shot

And he said, hey, guys, just take 20 and then we'll do a little celebration. We all milled around. He went off to where he came out, what was, came back with a laptop and pressed enter. And he said, the movie is done. He had his cut done before we left the set. I remember, I remember we didn't have time. Like, he doesn't rehearse, right? He's like Clint. He's like, we don't rehearse. We just do it. And...

I remember thinking, asking him a question like, hey, you know, we didn't really get to talk about it or rehearse or anything. So I just have a question about this. You know, I thought I was doing something fun with my voice. And I was like, do I sound like Clint Eastwood when I'm doing this? Or does it work? And he goes, well, let me just look at it. I'm going to cut it together. I'll have it all cut together, you know, by tomorrow and I'll look. And I was like, what? Yeah. So Clint, it reminds me of a story Charlie Sheen wrote.

told me we grew up together obsessed with Clint. What young boy wasn't obsessed with Clint? And we used to film backyard movies with our little video cameras. And it was always, one of us was always Clint is Dirty Harry. So the notion that Charlie grew up to star with Clint and something was insane. So I finally got to talk to Charlie, go, what was it like? What was it like? What was it like? And he said, Clint, as you know, and I want to hear your stories, but doesn't rehearse, doesn't man a few words.

First day of shooting, they've had almost no interaction. Charlie's panicking, knocks on Clint's door of his motorhome. Clint says, yeah. And he goes, you know, it's first day and everything. And I just was, I don't know, wondering if, I don't know how you were thinking and what we're gonna, I don't know, do today. Clint goes, I think we're gonna hit our marks and say a few words.

Sounds exactly like him. Exactly. And you can do a good impression. Well, he's easy. He's on the Hall of Fame. That is very good. I remember he did Mystic River right before Million Dollar Baby and was nominated and, you know, um,

I remember, um, I think it was Sean. He, no, Sean was in the movie before that. Wait, what was it? Kevin? It was, it was Sean. That's right. It was Sean. Cause Sean. Oh my God. That reminds me, remind me about the academy awards too. It was Sean. Um, it was Sean. Um, he, he said, um, something like he showed up and he had, he was in, you know, ready to go. Like you said, there's no rehearsal, there's no talking about it. And he did the accent and everything. And, um,

Clint said something like, okay, so you decided to do an accent. And he's like, yeah. And he goes, okay, sounds great.

And it's like, he didn't need to do it. He's like, do it if you want, do it if you don't. Because I said, you know, I have quite, I'm from, Maggie Fitzgerald was from Theodosia. And I said, she has a very specific accent. Can I have a dialect coach? And he's like, well, if you want to have one before, but you can't have them on set. Ooh, interesting. He's like, no gurus on set.

Wait, no gurus? That's the greatest thing ever. I want that as a bumper sticker. By the way, there's the title for this episode. No gurus on set. So good. You're doing him better than me right now with my cold. If I fully commit, I'm just going to start coughing. The best is Chad tells a story about skiing with Clint.

Oh, yeah. Which we've all been lucky enough to do. But I guess, you know, you get invited up to the Clint House, which is frozen in time in 1970. 70-something. Maybe late 60s, 68, 72, somewhere in there. But with a green telephone, the long cord. Green, full on. It's like he bought it, shag carpet. But it's all miraculously, like, really looks fresh and clean. Yeah.

Like it's kept up. Like you stepped back into that time. But yeah, I think he stepped into our room. Did he tell you that? This is the story. Yeah. He goes, Hey, what did he get? Yeah. He's like, well, if you want to go skiing, it's time to go, but it's dark. And all you see is his shadow backlit at the door. And then he's like, I'll be downstairs leaving in 15 seconds.

And then you hear like, he has like birds and he has like a bird on his shoulder and he's like making his protein shake and to get ready to go skiing. And he's got a, no, what's the, I had it, the woodside paneling Jeep, Jeep Wagoneer. The Wagoneer, yeah. Which came with the house. It's warming up outside and he's like, we all pile in and there we go. Well, if you want to go, it's time to go. Chad said he had, he remembers coming back

into the kitchen and just seeing Clint staring out at the mountains as the sun is rising behind them, just like Googling, what is he thinking? I know, right? And he's a great skier. Great skier. He's a great skier. Okay, tell me about the Academy Awards and Sean. Okay, so I didn't know this. I wasn't privy to this conversation. So...

And Sean won the year before for Mystic River. So he was presenting Best Actress the next year, which was... I was nominated. I was super blessed to be nominated again. And here we are sitting with Clint and he's sitting right next to me. And Sean and him saw each other at the bar, like in the commercial before. So they go to commercial, they come right back and it's Best Leading Actress. Oh boy. And...

So Sean is up on the stage and he opens the envelope and he looks at Clint for a long beat, but his face didn't read anything. And it looked like he was like, oh, sorry, buddy.

And so I was like, oh, okay, well, you know, I have one. I can't complain, but I'm sitting there and I do think a little. And then he calls my name. So it was like a double win. No way. What? Yeah. And after I was like, what was that face that you did? And he said, when Clint and I were at the bar together at the commercial break, I told him I would give him a sign if your girl won.

And his sign was a long, sad face? A long, pregnant pause. That's why he's Sean Penn, because he makes interesting choices. Exactly. By the way, people go, Rob always tells his own stories on his podcast, but fuck it. I don't care. Yeah, tell your story, but I love that. Okay, well, good. That's the whole point. Don't people want to hear your stories? Every once in a while, somebody will be on an Apple board saying, I wish Rob would stop telling his stories. I want to hear Hillary's. Well, we heard Hillary's story. Now we're going to hear one of mine. Yes.

I was giving out the best actor in a comedy Emmy. I'm in the car on the way. Phone rings. It's Charlie Sheen, who I haven't spoken to in 15 years. Oh, wow. He's nominated for Two and a Half Men. He goes, dude, dude. That sounds like him. He goes, um...

The odds of me winning are one in 59, whatever the fuck they are. He goes, I'm going to put $5 million down in Vegas. You read my name and we'll split the money. And I'm like, you're kidding me. Oh, no, I'm not kidding. I am absolutely 100% not kidding. And I go, ha, that's hilarious. That's great. He goes, no, dude.

let's do it. I go, you're the best. I love you. All right. See you at the ceremony. Click. I'm telling you, we can do this. It's going to be great. And I realized he's serious. And I go, all right, Charlie, look, here's the thing. Let's think this through. I opened the envelope. It is going to, I can tell you right now, it is going to say Alec Baldwin for 30 Rock. It is. It's said that every year. It's going to say it this year.

And I go, what do I, what do you do with the paper? He goes, you eat it. He goes, I'll cause a scene coming up and you eat it. That's crazy. Like the people that, that did the counting wouldn't say something.

That's hilarious. And by the way, you should keep telling stories like that and tell your listeners that's a worthy story. Those are good. If you tell stories like that, it's worthy. I mean, I got to when it comes up like that. That's so great.

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Tell me about Ordinary Angels. Okay, first of all, Ordinary Angels, I remember that storm. That storm was gnarly. Oh my gosh, really? Yeah, it was gnarly. And by the way, down Louisville to have a storm like that in the South is so rare. I love this movie for so many reasons. Let's start with the fact that we need a movie like this right now. It's really...

some tough times in the world. And I think people are looking for a feel-good movie. So there's that, which I'm happy, really happy to be able to bring that and to entertain people with a true story of goodness. Two,

This woman that I played is bigger than life and she lights up a room. She's transparent. She wears her heart on her sleeve. She loves people. She is just a beautiful reminder of the good in people. Three, community. How community can come together and help one another.

We've gotten so far away from that. And it doesn't even have to be in a small town. I was in New York City during 9-11. And that is a huge populated city. And the community came together in a real way. We can come together, whether it's something big or something small. And in this case, it was a big deal to save a young girl's life. And they rallied. And

Then lastly, well, there's a lot of things, but lastly, my dad was a recipient of a lung transplant. Yes, I remember. And his life was saved by the graciousness of a donor. And so it reminds us that there's millions of people out there waiting for an organ donor. And if you can, please become a donor. It saves lives. And I felt, you know, my dad was Christian and there's a lot of...

faith-based kind of themes in this movie. And so I just feel like this is a movie my dad would have been really proud that I was a part of. Oh, I loved your dad. He was the best. Thank you. How's your mom? Yeah, we had a lot of great times up there. I went through a bunch of pictures. The Thanksgivings we spent at your house with my dad. Oh, of course. My dad loved you guys. And your mom, of course. Yeah, my mom.

The greatest. She's still a funny firecracker. I was going to say, funny firecracker. Okay, so speaking of rescuing, and you mentioned 9-11, have you ever told people about the gnarly animal rescues you did? No. How about that? No one's ever, because people didn't know me. They didn't know. So yeah, you knew me. Tell me, tell everybody what you did post 9-11. It's incredible. First of all, to people who don't know, there is no bigger advocate for animals than Hillary.

Like none. And by the way, the bird sanctuary misses you in Carpinteria. You need to come. They're still there. I'm so happy they're still there. With all the changes in my neighborhood, they're still there. Oh, that's wonderful. Jamie is like, she's an ordinary angel. What she's doing for all those birds, because as we talked about, birds live 80 to 90 years. I got mine when I was a teenager. No one keeps a bird that long.

They're like, I got to move on. And then these poor, beautiful, smart creatures are left kind of going from home to home. And they're very particular, as you know. So Jamie is just a blessing. So thank you for bringing her up.

But yeah, so I heard about all of these animals that were left down. You couldn't go below 14th Street if that's where you lived. You couldn't go back down there. All the first responders were down there and they were cleaning up and it was just too much of a mess and it was burning. And a lot of the apartment buildings were about to collapse. They didn't know if they were able to withstand the weight and

I worked with the ASPCA and the Park and Recreation, which I worked with just separately before 9-11.

And they needed a bunch of volunteers. So we went down and we went into all of these apartments where people would... People went... Let me just go back a step. People would go over the piers over on West Street. And they would say, my dog Simpson or my goldfish or my rabbit or whatever it is. And they'd say, this is my address. This is my apartment. And I'd get these cards and we'd go down.

Mind you, there was no electricity down there. So if their animal was on the 50th floor, you were walking up to the 50th floor. And we'd get up there and we brought cats down, we brought turtles down, we brought fish down, we brought...

Lots of dogs. I think a couple hamsters. But, I mean, these apartment buildings, they were missing windows. And the trauma that these animals went through living there for, you know, some a few days and some a few weeks. Cats that were scared out of their gourd. You'd have to put them in like a pillowcase. That's the story I remember is you told me this story about walking into an apartment or breaking into the apartment.

And you're there to rescue the animal. That animal is terrified. If you're trying to grab a cat, it's terrified. Yeah, it was going crazy. It had already, it was missing its person. Who knows how long it didn't have food. The front windows were blown out. It was smoky. It was dirty. It was...

And they were just like, what is going on? And there was, yeah. I mean, a cat in that environment is wild. So we were like, how do we do this? How do we do this? And it kept getting out of a blanket. So finally figured out how to put it in a pillowcase, knew it could still breathe through it, got them back to their owners. But reuniting these animals with their owners was such a gift. They were just like so happy. Well, you were an orphan.

Ordinary angel. A literal ordinary angel. We didn't have iPhones at the time, so I wasn't able to take any photos from down there either. It was crazy. A lot of crazy times. We need to do a part two because then we had to tell people about your visit to Russia when they were shelling the... Remember that? Yeah, a cannonball went into the parliament building.

That was, that was 94, I think, or 93. Insane. I mean, there's a lot, there's so much to go over, but listen, you need to, I want to meet, I don't think I've met your husband and I've got to meet those lovely little ones and come out and see the bird sanctuary. We'll take them to the zoo when they're old enough.

The touch tanks. There's so much to do in Santa Barbara. We miss you. I know, I love that you're still up there. You love it up there? Love it. Never, never, ever, ever leaving. Love it. Love it. Yeah, it's a pretty great place. And you guys went up there before the whole rush went. Yeah, it's been 30 years. For sure. Well, we all love you. Chad sends his love. Cheryl sends his love. The boys, we all miss you. Excited to watch you continue to crush it. That was amazing.

Amazing to get reunited with Hillary and Seuss, the bird. I don't know if you guys could hear Seuss, the bird in the background, but I could hear her as we were recording. So funny. All right, just one more thing before we end today's episode. Let's check the lowdown line. Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-

So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hey Rob, this is Jenny from North Carolina. Love your books, love your podcast, and I'm an 80s gal, so of course I had your poster on my wall when I was in high school. Now, this is what I've learned about you. Okay, so you are a great impersonator, a great interviewer, a great actor, good looking, good at...

golfing, surfing. You're still married to your wife. You have kids that are smart and successful. So my question is, what are you bad at? What do you think at? What do you do that gets on your wife's nerves? Come on. America needs to know. All right. Thanks, Rob. Have a great day. Make it fun. Bye.

That is, you are amazing. That's a very nice list that you ticked off. Thank you so much. Boy, oh boy. And we need, it sounds like really what we need is Cheryl Lowe back on this podcast because she has a list. Believe me, she's a wife. That's what wives do. They have lists of things that husbands need to do better. Okay, ready? In no particular order.

I am not handy around the house. I'm not. I'm not. I could barely screw in a light bulb. I can change a light bulb. But anything else, man, you're on your own. And what else? I am terrible with household finances. That's her purview, and she's great at it. I'm good at making the money, but figuring out the rest of it, that's all her.

What else am I not good at? Anything having to do with math, anything. And I just had run DMC on my show and he said that, you know, you're following your higher calling when you're doing what comes easy to you. So I don't have any guilt about the things I'm no good at anymore.

Thank you. That was a great question. So amazing. And great stories. That was amazing. Thank you all for tuning in. Don't forget to see Hillary's movie. It's out right now. Ordinary Angels. Feel good movie. We could all use it. And I'll see you next week right back here on Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar and research by Alyssa Growl. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant.

Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers, passport. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply.