Jen Psaki: The Go-To Person
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Hello, everybody. Welcome to Literally. This is a big one for me today. You know, I think that this is usually a safe zone for politics. People of all stripes can come here and take a breather and just have fun and let their hair down. But the fact of the matter is, I do love politics. Today, we have Jen Psaki, White House Press Secretary-elect.

I don't know her. I've never met her. I'm very excited to do this. It'll be very interesting to see because I think what people forget when they talk about politics is that there are human beings in the equation and that we can all remind each other of our humanity. And so this is a good one. This is super, super, super fun. And I hope you enjoy this as much as I did talking to Jen Salkin.

I'm super excited to have you on for a number of reasons. One is, this podcast is usually a safe zone. And it will be today, too. But it's like...

There's there's some people can can get their their political stuff. There's there's no shortage of it. Everybody's retreated to their corners. I don't need to tell you that. And so it's fun to have a place where everybody from all walks of life can come and just chill and take a deep breath. But the fact of the matter is, you are the White House press secretary. And this is the first time I've gone done anything like.

with people in that world. But as I've done this podcast now for a long time, it's time to start bringing that in because I love that stuff. I mean, listen, I have a long history of being involved and, you know, obviously I did a show about it. So I've heard of that show. You're the trailblazer. You are the, you're right. You're the trailblazer. I think, did we, was CJ Craig a

Now, Dede Myers was the first female press secretary. Is that correct? Yeah, she was. You know, I did not watch the West Wing until 2012. And no, this is a good story, I think. Well, I don't want to hear. I don't know. You can tell me if it's a good story or not. I didn't watch until 2012. A lot of people, so many people that I know and I've grown up with in Washington, it inspired them to come here. Right. And be a part of this town and and work in government. No question about it.

But in 2012, I had left the White House in 2011 and I was working at a consulting firm. I still don't really know what consulting firms do. I'm like a terrible consultant. So I was working at this consulting firm and the 2012 midterms were starting. And I had worked for former President Obama on the campaign and in the first...

term and I kind of was just exhausted as happens right as a human being. Yeah. And so I'm working in this consulting firm and I start watching the West Wing and I don't know what prompted me to watch it but I watched I binged you know the entire thing while I was at this consulting firm and I would do I'd be working on decks which is like the worst thing I've ever done in a job where you're kind of editing things

I mean, it's editing PowerPoints, basically. And I would watch episodes of The West Wing. And in a crazy way, it really brought me back to come back to politics. And I ended up coming back and doing the 2012...

campaign and traveling with then President Obama on his reelection. So I was basically gone for like six months. And then I thought to myself, I've got to go back. I've got to go back. So in other words, when you're up there getting grilled by Pete Doocy, you're thinking, God damn, Rob Lowe is the one who put me up here.

Aaron Sorkin and Rob Lowe in the West Wing. All your fault. You know, I am. So I know I'm sure you've talked about your character exhaustively, but since we're here and I'm sitting in the White House right now. So, one, I was the deputy communications director, which was Sam Seaborn's job. Right. Oh, my God. That's right. We shared a job in some ways. So I had that job.

and when I first got that job, it's a huge job in the White House, right? I was super excited. I'd only been here for nine months or ten months or something. Super excited. And I'm moving into my new office, and Rahm Emanuel, who was the chief of staff at the time, who I've worked for multiple times over, and is as amazing and bananas as everybody says. Bananas. That's a diplomatic word. He's off the charts sometimes. But he came into my office, and he said,

oh, this is the office that they gave me when they tried to fire me in the Clinton administration. And I was like, oh, okay. That's great. But yeah, you know, that character was so inspiring because that idealism that Sam Seaborn had, right, that you embodied for many years is kind of what the best of Washington is, right? And one of the things that's so great about what I'm living and experiencing now is

I've worked here before. I never thought I'd be back in the White House. And now I get to work with all of these people who are a part of the press team or are in their earlier in their career than I am, their 20s and early 30s, who have that idealism that is like bursting out of their pores that makes you want to be here every day. It's really it's an amazing part. There's lots of Sam Seaborn's wandering around here. Oh, well, first of all, that makes me feel super good. And and I actually I

I'm blessed enough to hear that a bunch. The last time I was at the White House was during the Obama administration. It was a Saturday and he was out, not around. But all the entire speech writing staff came in on a Saturday to say hi. Oh, I'm sure. And, you know, Jon Favreau, who wrote for the president, was very vocal about what the West Wing meant to him. And what I always tell people about Washington is the

the people who really make the town run are the 20 somethings. They, they really do. They make the town run. There's no Washington without them. And, and that's what blew my mind. Really coming behind the scenes and being there was the level of patriotism investment wanting to do good. And therefore those reasons and nothing else. And, and,

And to see that in young people, it makes you feel so good about the future of the country. I always find every time I go to D.C., regardless of what administration is, I'm struck with the same thing.

It's so true. You know, my brother-in-law was the deputy speechwriter at that time. He may have been one of the people who came in to meet you, but he also reminds me a lot of you or not you personally. We don't know each other well yet, but of the character, because he is somebody who would kind of, you know, quote from Lincoln and say,

uh mlk and that was like finding the right quote in the moment in history that could be in president obama's speech so that he could really meet this moment and that is exactly what drives so many people to be in this town so the interesting thing maybe this is a hopeful note is that as rotten as some people think politicians are they're not all rotten a but or divisive this town is and it certainly is um

there are so many good soul human beings who are coming up in the ranks and that is like encouraging and inspiring and awesome. So, you know, that's the good note. No, I, and you're absolutely, you're, you're absolutely right. And it's funny, you talk about speech writing. One of the things that I love about, loved about playing Sam and about speech writers. And I've been lucky enough to get to know, you know, from Gerson to Favreau, you know, Peggy Noonan, you know,

All of them. I just admire them so much. And I love their reading their best speeches. I think that's why I was a good fit to play Sam, because I really love that stuff. But the notion that they can come up with, like you say, the perfect phrase to put in President Obama's mouth and they take no credit for it, which is, you know, just that notion that, no, that's the president speaking. And I may have wrote it. Maybe my idea. But.

You defer to that and that if you ask anybody, did you write that? It's kind of a badge of honor to

that they sort of dissemble and can't never give you a straight answer. I kind of love that. The president writes all of his speeches and all of his words. Of course they do. Of course they do. Of course they do. Can I ask you a question? Because you have such an interesting perspective on this town. I mean, you've done a lot of work on environmental issues and climate issues, and I know on breast cancer as well, and that's such an important... I've had friends who, I mean, even at my age, who've had breast cancer. Yes.

What do you find the most frustrating or misunderstood about this time? Maybe both. That's a both. That's like your Rosenthorn of this town, how it works. Well, there's two things. What I find is frustrating. And then the thing that's frustrating for me now, because I remember...

meeting the president when I brought 250,000 signatures from California voters to oppose Judge Bork's nomination to the Supreme Court. That's the first time I met President, now President Biden. On that trip I was referring to, the Saturday,

We were stopped at the gate between the OEOB and the White House because he was in a motorcade leaving and he saw me and came down. And he was late, of course. And he talked for 20 minutes, 20 minutes he took out of his day to talk to me and I was with a group of eighth graders. And he talked to my son, John Owen, about the New York Giants and football for 20 minutes. And you know this about him. He is one of the nicest men and just like one of the most decent people

like people to hang out with. And I think my, so my issue is that people don't give, people get so entrenched in their beliefs that they don't see the humanity in, in people that they might disagree with. The West Wing very much celebrated that. I remember the days, you know, when Tip O'Neill and Reagan would, you know, make fun of each other and call each other names and disagree and did disagree, but then, then the lights would go off and they'd

you know, go have a drink and try to hammer something out. You know, I'm not there on a daily basis, but it feels like that's maybe a little bit of a lost art. I think that's true. I mean, I worked for John Kerry for a while at the State Department. He's the best, but I mean, he is an example of somebody who's so misunderstood. If you get to know him a little bit, he's like the most outgoing, loves life and people, human being I've ever worked for. Explain this to me. So Al Gore...

Hilarious in a room of five, then walks out into a room of 3000 and is wooden. It's rare when a person can be can be the person they are with three people in front of the hot spotlight of the nation. And that's what makes the greats.

That's true. That's very true. And being able to showcase that and project it, you know. But I also think, you know, I worked for former President Obama for a long time. And people, he was just like an incredible speaker, right? And people, obviously, I'm stating something that's like a part of history. Right, right. But he also, I think, is probably an introvert, right? Somebody who enjoys time himself, right?

reading, thinking, and in some ways was misunderstood in that way too, right? Like that he was always going to be the person who gave that speech at the 2004 convention. And no human being is like that all the time either. But I think the point you raised about what, you know, not bipartisanship, that's a very DC term, but kind of whether people can kind of find ways to talk and joke with each other and have that moment.

I mean, there's lots of things to blame for it, I think, but there is such a lack of it right now, you know? And I think even in the inability to kind of recognize that most people in this country, I mean, I conclude myself on this, even though I'm a Democrat working in the White House as part of my life, it's not all black and white, right? Most people are not like, do I check every box on this like progressive checklist or do I check every box on this conservative checklist, right?

You're a mix of things. Everybody's a mix of things. And there's not a space for that, which I think is part of the problem in politics today, for sure. 100%. Look, I grew up in a

super left wing, you know, liberal. And as I've grown older, which is common, I drift more right and more conservative probably. But I'm always reminded of that great quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson that foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. So the notion of just rote voting via party is

for me, just doesn't work because you say, I'm a little bit of everything. I think at the end of the day, everybody is a little bit of everything, but nobody, I don't think that anybody wants to hear that. Everybody wants to know, are you a Democrat or are you a Republican? And if you are either of those, then you have to accept absolutely everything that is on that particular agenda. And I just don't think that's where

I don't think it's where real Americans live. Do you know? I think it's where the media lives. I think it's where social media lives. It's not where real Americans live, right? I mean, it's not in this notion that you have to pass a litmus test in order to be a part of something or else you're not invited to the party is just a very, I think that's why there's such a low approval rating for government for despite what all the good that government does, right? Because people feel that they have to fit into the litmus test that's set out for them. Um,

I think social media has a lot to do with that and how people are rewarded for having not opinions because opinions are important and great, right? But having extreme viewpoints. And also, don't you think that the news is nothing revolutionary? The minute the news media became ratings driven, emotion and conflict drive story. Story drives ratings.

So that squeezes out rational discourse and everybody now gets the news that they want to get. Yeah. You know, I think there's such an interesting thing. So I'm going to give you an optimistic view on this right now, which is like, okay, so

Cable news is dying, right? The ratings for it are dwindling, right? And there is dwindling readership as well of a lot of national newspapers. I'm not sure that's the optimistic view, but I'm getting to a point. But it's facts. It's facts. It's facts. There are now streaming services or direction, even in news of the future in all likelihood, right? What I'm hopeful of and we'll see is that will be a form for creating a range of content that

That is informative, right? And isn't from a viewpoint, but is telling you and explaining to you what does voter suppression mean, right? When we say misinformation, what is that, right? Or when we say climate change, what do we mean by that? And it's not just about people hugging trees. I mean, you know this, but like a lot of people thinking about it that think about it that way, right? Like it's just a liberal issue. It's not.

But maybe it will be a forum for creating a range of content that is more along those lines than Democrats and Republicans yelling at each other on a set. Well, the only thing I worry about is you see it with COVID where I've done my research. OK, well, so we've Googled something and who knows what what it really is or or isn't. And if if everything goes to.

You know, these these pockets. I just I just wonder where it's so hard for people to I really do feel like people feel like they're not getting the truth. I mean, I'm not saying they're not. I'm saying people feel that way and I get it.

By the way, that coffee cup was amazing. Oh, this old thing. See, I love that stuff. It's just a copy. With the White House seal. I have more White House swag still. I have M&Ms in the White House box. Remember those things? Are they still around? Yes, they are still around. Now they're signed by the new president. Signed new, you know, you've got Joe Biden M&Ms. We've got to get you some Joe Biden M&Ms. I need some Joe Biden M&Ms. Quick.

Quick segue. So David Foster, who wrote St. Elmo's Fire theme and a lot of great music. You're an 80s person. Yes, I love St. Elmo's Fire. Now I'm going to have the song in my head and I'm going to want to watch the movie this weekend. So thank you for that. And so I fake play the saxophone in it. And I was at a political fundraiser. And as a joke, David and I had me fake play the saxophone while he played the song. There was a real saxophone player behind a curtain. I fake played it. I crushed it.

I thought what I was going to do was take the saxophone out of my mouth during it so everybody would laugh. But I realized my actor's ego got involved. And then I realized, I'm killing it. I'm going to let them think I'm great. And I looked out. President Clinton was in the audience. And he was still the president. And he's losing his mind. He's like fist bumping, going crazy. And I get a letter from him like three weeks later. The first one I've ever gotten from a president on White House. He says the oval, you know what it looks like. It's very impressive. Saying, I think we should do.

a duet sometime. And then I got really super scared because I don't really play. But that I have framed. I have a framed, also framed letter from President Bush. I felt this was significant. He wrote on both sides of the paper. So you can't really frame it. And I thought that was interesting. Clinton knows. He's like, he's going to frame this. So you write on both. Bush couldn't care less. So it's on both sides. So I had to get a Lalique like thing that you can see both sides of it. But

My number one thing was after 9-11, there was that amazing speech that brought everybody together. And I went to my mailbox and Michael Gerson had sent me the program that you got if you were there of the speech signed by the president and by him. But he inscribed it to Sam. Could you have written this? Okay.

And that's my... That is great. Isn't that a cool thing? That is such a cool thing. I mean, look, I was always a White House presidential nerd. Like, when that show came my way, it was like, you know, I just felt like... That's when I read that part, I felt like I was the only... I was, like, the perfect person to do it. Because it was... You're like, that's me. You want to... Yeah, you want to be that person. Yeah.

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Tell me what the Oval Office is like under President Biden, because under President Clinton, it was chill. You could wear jeans. When I walked in the first time, he had his big Bertha golf driver leaned up against the wall. When I went to visit President W. Bush, there was a velvet rope and you were not to enter. It was like the Vatican. Yeah, it was like a holy shrine. Yeah.

And every president brings their own style to it. First, has Biden redone it yet? Because every president redoes it and it takes like almost a year and a half to even get the carpet done. So he has he has not redone it with new stuff.

They have the cool thing is that any of them can go back into the archives, I guess. I don't know where this stuff lives. I'm kind of now curious. It's in the Smithsonian. I guess. And they just say, I would like that rug or I would like that couch or I would like. So that one of the couches that President Obama had in the Oval Office is now in the treaty room, which is the president's personal office and his office.

in the residence. Now, I remember this couch very well because I'm 5'3", and it is a couch made for 6' tall people. So it's kind of like there's no way to sit on it without looking like you're a little kid with kind of your legs out. But he has just tapped into things that were there. I mean, he has the same desk, of course, that nearly every residence has. Yeah, the Resolute Desk that has kind of the famous picture of

John John. Yeah, exactly. By the way, do you know why? Do you know why there's a door there? No, I don't actually know. And now I'm embarrassed because I'm not going to know as much trivia as you do. And I'm a little fearful of that. But go ahead. I want to know now. OK, so the picture of John John peeking up from underneath the desk.

It's obviously a very famous picture, but if you were to walk into the Oval right now, that is not open down there where John John is, right? It's closed. No, it's closed, yeah. It's closed because it covered FDR's wheelchair. That makes sense. And as a fact, I feel like I knew at one point. Have you seen the soot marks from the burning of the White House in 1812 in the basement? I have seen those. It's amazing, right? It's amazing. And my...

My last day working for President Obama, we did a scavenger hunt of sorts where we did all of the things that you want to do in the White House. And so that was one of them. What else did you do? I shot some baskets. I shot some basketballs. I did a little hit a hit a golf ball on the tee.

Amazing. What else? Oh, you know, there's a whole thing you probably know because you're a historian of sorts of the White House and the best tour guide. There's a where the pool used to be, which is under the briefing room. So you should you can sign your name. And so we went all went and signed our names there as well. But we kind of had about 10 things that you would check up. And it was a little bit of a dark time for us. So it was kind of a very happy day around around here because it was fun.

I signed my name on the pool. I'm down there. It's hard to get down. Isn't it? You had to climb through all the wires and crap. Yeah, it was kind of like, should we be doing this? But I think we're allowed to because it's our last day. I guess it's fine. But yeah, it's a little tricky. If I was allowed to do it, you're allowed to do it. And that's the famous JFK pool where JFK would...

Not just swimming. Yeah. Not just swimming. Yes. Yeah. Well, you were asking me about what the, what the, well, so the decoration isn't done yet. Now the president, so he is, um, you know, he is an immaculate dresser. So I have not worn jeans in there, but I think he wouldn't care if you did. I mean, he wears jeans and things on the weekends, but he always looks very well put together. So, um,

So I haven't I haven't kind of casual. I haven't had casual clothes in there really yet. But he also one of my one of my memories I will remember from kind of until, you know, for a long time, I guess, is on my first day before I did my first briefing, I was

In the Oval Office talking with him about the briefing and anything he wanted me to convey or what I expect or whatever. And I said, you know, I think you're going to be asked about the letter that the former president left you. And he said, oh, did he leave me a letter? And and I was like, am I telling him he was left a letter? I don't know. OK, so I said, I think so. I think so.

I think that's what happened. So he kind of looked around for the letter and read the letter while I was sitting there, which was just kind of a remarkable moment. He didn't read it out loud. He read it to himself. And he is such a classy guy, whether people agree with his politics or not, that he didn't even convey it to us in that moment of what the letter said. He kind of read the letter, consumed it himself. We still don't know what was in the letter. It was long.

Really? Yeah. It was very long. The script from where I could see was very lovely, but I don't know what was in the letter. But yeah, that was one of my early memories. But he also is someone, and I hadn't worked for him really before. I mean, I had worked for him when he was vice president, but I didn't know him well. I kind of was in meetings with him, but we didn't know each other well. And maybe a couple of weeks into the job, I was in the Oval talking to him about something in the press.

And he was like, pull up a chair. Come on over. He's just somebody who you feel like you've known forever. And I think I said that to him at the time. I said, I hope this isn't I hope this isn't an inappropriate thing to say to a president. I don't know. As soon as you say that, you know, maybe you shouldn't say it. But and I said, but I feel like I've known you for a long time and I feel very comfortable talking to you because he just has that that character about him.

He does. I also have another question I want to ask you, and you'd think I would know this. Do you still use the phrases gaggle and it's a full lid? So we still use both phrases.

Please explain what those mean. Yeah, gaggle is not geese. It can be if you want. A gaggle is when you're on your first one. You don't do a briefing that day. You do what's called a gaggle. And it is... I don't actually know why it's called that, the origin of it. But what it is, is you...

All of the reporters gather around you on the plane and you do a form of a briefing on the plane, but it's not on camera. And a full lid. A full lid means the day is done. There is no more events for the president and no more statements coming out. Why a full lid? What does it even mean? It means you can go home. I mean, the thing is, is a lot of these reporters...

who are here working every day. I think everybody thinks of, and they do have fascinating jobs. I mean, they're front seats to history.

The space where the reporters work is very small and needs to be updated. I mean, it's kind of gross. A lot of them would tell you, and I will confirm that it's super gross. It's gross. And they have to wait basically until they know there's not news coming out from the president. So you have to give them what's called a full lid so that they know that they can convey to their editors, their news desks, that there's no more news coming from the White House tonight. I just love like why you say there's no more news coming from the president.

No, it's called a full lid. What is the sort of looks like to be a White House set thing that so much was made of? What I've missed is it.

Is it there or is this you can have more reporters or is it in the OEOB so it's easier to get to? What's the deal with that? Yeah. OK, so the OEOB. So which is as you kind of described this a few minutes ago, but the West Wing is divided by this street called West Exec. And then there's a big building where most people work.

And there's an auditorium in there called South Court Auditorium or SCA as it's called on schedules. And in normal times, not during COVID, it's just a place where you can do events, but it's really not that exciting. It's kind of just an auditorium.

But because of COVID and because the president wasn't going to travel as much and not as many people were going to come here, he does a lot of events and actually meetings from there where you can put up a bunch of people on screens and

and be able to see them and talk to them and engage with them in a way you would do if he had 30 people in a meeting here. So they built it out more to make it look a little bit better visually and to ensure that he could kind of engage with people and see them in different boxes.

Okay, that's cool. Now, here's an interesting thing is that if you work in the, and by the way, OEOB stands for Old Executive Office Building. If you work in the Old Executive Office Building, you work in the White House. You can say, I have an office in the White House. Yeah, but you may not have a blue badge. And the blue badge allows you to get into the West Wing or you have to be escorted. Ooh.

There you go. I got to watch President Clinton prepare for the State of the Union. That was super exciting in the theater. And it's like whenever you get to see that stuff is so I mean, I just kind of pinched myself that I that I was lucky enough to see some of some of that stuff because not a lot of folks get to see it. And and it gives you a real insight into all of it. I mean.

I can remember what, you know, at a convention sometime going into the basement and John Glenn was working on the teleprompter. And like you just, you know, Tom Harkin, who I know you work for. Yes. I was one of his early supporters for whatever presidential run he did. What is it? I would say it's 92. 92. He came out and spoke at Roseanne Barr's tennis court.

Wow. Yes. Did you go campaign for him in Iowa or other places? No, I never did. I really liked him. Yeah. And, you know, all of the fixtures that have been in Washington forever, they there. It's no difference in my business. There are folks who, you know, I'm in my.

I'm in my sixth decade of being an actor and we have a very different vibe, ethos, worldview than those who have come up in the TikTok, you know, Instagram world. And I can only imagine what that would be like.

in Washington because the world has changed so much. Yeah, I think that's true in terms of there's kind of a difference in terms of how you consume information or think about it. But I also think it's interesting, and I think, I assume you feel this way, to learn from how people are 10 years, 20 years younger consuming information or how they're taking things in. I mean, that's, I think, kind of one of the fascinating things about

my job or a job like mine where there's just such a community, you know, it's a good family. I call it a family lot. And you kind of, and I don't know if it's like, is it like this on sets or with movies or shows you do where you kind of develop this almost like quick family with a group of people that you're in the foxhole with? I mean, it's definitely like that in politics and government too. There's nothing like it when it comes to a presidential campaign. Yeah. Out of all of the things I've ever done,

been a part of in any level that until you've been through it, there's nothing like it. Nothing. There's nothing more exciting. The adrenaline, you could work 18 hours a day and never give a damn. Am I wrong about that? No, that's completely true. And you're just kind of eating pizza and drinking bad beer and sleeping on couches of supporters and you're just happy to be there. So that hasn't changed.

No, and I think especially, I mean, the first presidential campaign I did was the Kerry campaign. I actually worked with Jon Favreau on the Kerry campaign. We were both on the campaign when basically everyone was fired and quit, and we were two of the only people left in the press and communications. I was actually in Iowa at the time, and he was in D.C., but...

it's adrenaline for sure. Um, it is feeling like you're a part of something bigger than yourself because you are, um, it's competitive in many ways. You know, I was a man in college. It's so competitive. You just want to beat, you know, not physically, you know, but you just want to beat the other person, um, or the other candidates. Um, and,

And then, you know, I was a very, I worked for Obama very early on. And that group of people who worked in 2007 when nobody thought we could win and everybody doubted us. And we went through all these journeys of Jeremiah Wright and all these things that are ancient history. Oh, man, I remember it like it was yesterday. But yeah, you have a bond with these people.

You know, you may not see them for five years or 10 years, and it is still kind of, you love them like sisters and brothers. And that's something that I don't think you experience in most workplaces. And I have that with, I mean, it's obviously a totally different thing, but like,

you know people like hey when was the last time you saw tom cruise i go it's it's been a bit but whenever we see each other because we did the outsiders together and we were 18 and on location and bunking in each other's rooms and it's our it we're trying to beat the door down you're trying to beat the door down to get into the white house we're trying to beat the door down to have careers and yeah it happens you have that it's exactly the same thing you knew each other when you know i mean yeah exactly you knew each other when you were 18 or 22 or 24 it's like you have because

and you're in the foxhole together it's just such a different it's like a lifelong bond for sure

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Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. Once President Biden is done serving the country. Yeah. Who do you see as the natural leaders in the Democratic Party? Here's the thing. Joe Biden's going to run for reelection, he says, but it's impossible to know.

Because there might be people and this is what's so fascinating about not just politics but kind of how the public moves with with leaders

who may not even have run for office yet, right? Who might be the next future leader of the Democratic Party. And maybe they're in the midst now. I mean, you know, there's a lot of young up and coming people and who are governors and, and Congress and stuff, but we may not know yet, which is kind of a fascinating part of it. Well, it always makes me laugh when people will start handicapping. It's like, it's six months is six years. I know. It's, it's,

And the other thing is, as you alluded to with Obama and Jeremiah Wright or President Trump with, you know, grabbing by the you know what's like those things did not. And not only did it not end them, they were elected. So we live in. I remember when Edwin Muskie got tears in his eyes because it was cold on the steps in New Hampshire and people thought he was weak and he was done. So that's how far we've I guess all tears in his eyes. Well, he's not qualified to be the president. Like that's what a different world we're living in.

It's true. And some is good and some isn't good. Right. I mean, some is is like, well, you're kind of looking at someone like and I'm biased here. I'm a Democrat. But like, you know, President Obama or there are certainly Republicans like this, too. You kind of know they're a good human. Right. I think people could see that in him. People see that in other people, Republicans, John McCain, Mitt

Mitt Romney, there are different people who people could see as good human beings, right? They like them, you know, that is often what propels them forward. And so they can move past some things, right? They can move past mistakes or gaffes or things. They just have questions about, or they're confused by because overarchingly they look at them and they like the bigger picture of who they are and what they represent, or maybe what they say about them liking them. That's a whole other thing. But, um,

But then there are also things that, you know, there's a celebrity nature of politics, too, that isn't always good. Right. And you are a celebrity. So maybe that's a weird frame to frame to use. But meaning like. No, please. Because I hate the phrase. So there are celebrities for sure. But you're right. There is a celebrity nature to it. So I meant celebrity in the sense of who.

who is going to be getting, you know, the most attention on Twitter and kind of the most viral because it's the most extreme, right? Yes. From either party, right? Yeah. And that sometimes because of our system is rewarded. And that's not... So sometimes people can move beyond a lot of faults because they're like, oh, look, they're just out there and famous. And I don't know. That's not... That's what's troubling. So... Do you...

treat poll numbers the way I treat the Nielsen ratings where I go

Do you burn them in a fire? I don't know. No, what I do, I just blatantly, here's my thing, and I don't care, I'm blatant about it. If the ratings are good, I go, oh, the Nielsen ratings, yeah, the ratings are great. How great is this? And if they're bad, I'm like, the Nielsen ratings don't know what they're doing. They're not an actual sample of how people watch television. I don't believe in the Nielsen, that's like the way I live with them. Sometimes, yes, right? Yeah.

Because you need to, I mean, at least in my world, you need to for your own ability to wake up in the next day and keep fighting it out, right? But there are some times, many times, where you have to kind of look in politics and government, right, and be like, what's going on here, right? What are people troubled by? Right.

And you have to be sober and clear about that and kind of be able to take that in. Right. Take in the criticism of it, because if you don't, you're not really addressing it. And at the end of the day, you know, my business is still run by ratings. And at the end of the day, your business is still run by voters. And it's you know, you got it. You got to give the audience what they want on a certain level.

That's true. Oh, I know what I want to ask you. When you come to the podium and you have your briefing book, I'm assuming that you have pre-thought what you're likely to be asked. Yeah. Well... Right? Yeah, oh, for sure. I mean, you don't want to be making up anything on the fly. No, you don't want to be making up anything on the fly. Now, the best days are when you have something to say, right? Because there are days where you're thinking, oh, man, they're going to ask about...

something, you know, what's the future of voting rights? It's a great question. I have no idea right now, right? You can't say that. So you have to come up with what you're going to say. A protecting rate. So, but I have, so this binder, which is kind of this like, it's like sitting next to me right now, my special friend, this binder, which has so much information, not because necessarily I have to kind of

read it. I do use it a lot, but because there's stuff in there that can sometimes provide more clarity or provide more accurate up-to-date information to alleviate confusion. I mean, it's not that I don't get asked biased questions. I mean, this is, you know, all biased on every side. They're all, they're all, all biased. You can always tell the agenda. I, for me, I can always tell the agenda of the reporter.

Regardless of what side they're on by the question. I mean, that's...

So they don't do that as much anymore. But that is often too often. And sometimes when you read, it's like we're talking about polls, when people write stories that say X will be detrimental to the Democrats in the midterms. It's like, you have no idea what will be detrimental. Maybe it's something worse than that, right? Or maybe it's not that at all, you know? Or maybe actually we're going to win. You know, it's unknowable in this moment because you don't know where the country is going to be and think. So...

you know, writing these, this is going to be terrible about, you know, schools are closed. That was the whole story a year ago. Schools aren't open. And that's going to be terrible for the Democrats in two years when there are midterms. Like, first of all, it's not. 98% of schools are now open.

But you can't predict where the country will be, where the psyche is going to be, how people are going to be thinking that far in advance. And there's just the predictions business is just a little bit of a crazy one. Let me ask you this. I remember the days when the first question always went to Helen Thomas.

Yeah. Of Associated Press. Yeah. Now, how do you choose who gets the first or is that even a thing anymore? Because that was a big thing of honor. Yeah, it still is a thing. So actually, we went back to the tradition of the Associated Press getting the first question and then essentially ending the briefing, although sometimes you still take a few more questions. It's funny you say that because I just learned this. Is this true that up until President Trump blew up all that whole system that the press was.

told you when the briefing was over. True. Am I wrong about this? No, this is true. Now, there are some caveats in there because sometimes the schedule necessitates that you can only brief for a certain amount of time. And also, the briefings can be quite repetitive. So, there are times when actually the AP is thinking to the AP reporter is,

the arbiter of thinking, okay, we've answered this question five times. Now I think it's time to go. Or you say, you do it every day. I've done 171 briefings as of today. You know, 45 minutes, that's pretty good, right? And they have other things to do, the reporters. So that is true. Now at the State Department, where I was also the, I was the spokesperson there a couple years ago, the way it works there is that

the reporters can stay on the AP always starts this guy named Matt Lee who has been there forever and is brilliant but and he's a tough he's like a curmudgeon who will push you but you know good

good soul but he uh they start a topic and then they stay on whatever topic they want for as long as they want so if they want to talk about the south china sea for 45 minutes they can or you know you answer questions about it until you say okay are we ready to move on to the next topic or you might say okay i think we've covered everything we can on this topic but they stay on one topic until they're ready to move on which in many ways it's harder because you know it's answered

15 questions on the same issue. So I have a question for you. And this was the week where the president did his two hour press conference. Yeah. And now how did that was a long press conference? Let's just face it. It was a long press conference. Record breaking, in fact, record breaking and absolutely got into the thing where he was answering the same question five times. Mm hmm.

Were was that planned? Was it on the fly? Was it was it like you think this guy can't talk in front of the country? We'll put him there for two hours. What was the thinking behind it? It was not planned. It was planned to be an hour. And God, right. It's going to be an hour. He had a list of questions just so he knew who to call on. And often he goes beyond that. And yeah.

You know, I think in the moment he just decided to take some more questions. And that went on for a record breaking amount of time. Were you pulling your hair out? I mean, there is a moment where like, look, let's face it. And it's not it's not a knock on anybody where you just go declare victory and get off the field. Yeah.

I mean, I'm a pretty chill person. I think people who work with me would say. But I think when some of the questions started to be off in Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs land there, I was thinking, oh my, where are we going here with this? Yeah.

And that's obviously not on the president. I mean, he's trying to call on anyone in the room, right? But then the truth is, after a few of those, it kind of came back to, yeah, some of it was repetitive. But there were also questions that hadn't been asked. And they were about a range of topics. And he bantered around with lots of the reporters. And, you know, it's funny. There's been this is like a very Washington thing obsession with him doing a formal press conference.

which is what happened the other night. But he also has taken questions multiple times a day since he started the presidency from the reporters. So in a funny way, it was kind of people seeing what he does nearly every day, but in a less formal way.

setting. But yes, there was a moment there where I was thinking, where is this going? And where, what, who else is going to be called on in this room? I watched it from, from the beginning at work. I'm shooting the show, my show, 911 Lone Star. I'm watching, I'm watching it in my trailer. And then I go, I literally went and put out five fires and saved three people

and came back and the president was still talking. Well, first of all, that's a remarkable two hours that you had there putting out five fires and saving three people. They were fake fires and they were fake people, but still. Still, let's congratulate you for that. That's significant. Yes, it was lengthy, but also, personally,

part of that engagement, you know, this is the funny part about him having been in the Senate for 36 years and you've probably been around, you know, in the Senate, which is so different from here. I mean, reporters come up, they talk to me, they can come in our offices anytime they want, et cetera. But in the Senate and the House, reporters come up

Reporters are everywhere. They're in the hallway. They're outside the bathroom. They're in the lunchroom. It's kind of shocking. It's shocking. That's what he's used to. And that's kind of what he grew up with in a lot of ways, you know, through his life in politics. Do senators have hideaways or is that just congressmen? If you're in leadership, you know, certain ones. Oh.

Oh. Special ones, too. So the hideaways, which I learned this late on, I was like, well, the hideaway. I know. Where you can have meetings and stuff. Yeah, it sounds very like, ooh, what's this? But they all have these like weird cubbyhole actual hideaways in the bottom of the Capitol. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty cool. It's very, there's a lot of really super cool stuff that goes on.

That like when you're in the inside, you're like, if you're a nerd like me, if you're a political nerd. Yeah. Safe place. I am also a political nerd. So it's okay. Yeah. We're in the right place. Yeah. I know, like, I don't come to a briefing without my book, just like you. And in my book, my briefing on you, that tells me that you are a big dance party fan. And it's true. Yeah. It's same. You have one song you can dance to for the rest of your life. My God. Okay. Yeah.

And you can, and by the way, it doesn't have to be totally, you can give me a genre, an era. You can give me a couple ideas. Okay. I need a couple because I would say that in my car, when I kind of need a moment, when I'm going into work around my away home right now, I'm in a combo of things. Okay. Oh, this is great. Okay. I'm in queen, right? Queen, old school queen, Taylor Swift, her newer album. I also love Eric church. I love a little country in there. Yeah. Um,

I did make my staff listen to Meatloaf today. They were not familiar with Meatloaf. How shocking is that? Yeah. I knew all the words and I was dancing behind my desk and I think they were both horrified. They thought I was 100. I don't know what was happening at the same time. But yeah, I might listen to Paradise by the Dashboard Light on the way home because it feels right. I'm always shocked when the youngins...

don't know certain things. My assistant, who's amazing, she was like, who's that guy that you like listen to all the time? Tone Pet? Tone Pet? I was like, I'm sorry, Tom Petty?

tom pet she thought tom petty was tone pet no that is yes that makes me sad and like i need to send her some tom petty things which i'm sure you've already taken care of tom petty is actually my favorite if he i never saw him in concert if there was anybody i could see in concert living or dead it would be tom petty my husband feels bad that i never saw him in concert this is something because he's an amazing hubby but he brings up on the regular basis

American Girl, any Tom Petty song. I would blast Tom Petty on the way home, too. I love him. Yeah. Oh, I know. So campaigns have theme songs. Yeah. I remember every time I hear Coming to America by Neil Diamond, I'm instantly transported. Yeah. Freezing my ass off with Michael Dukakis in some cornfield.

Yes. So what, what was the, what was the, what do you think the greatest campaign song that you've been a part of is? And do you, what ones do you remember? Like, can you remember who had what? I mean, sign seal delivered is always going to remember of me, of the Obama campaign for sure. For sure. You know, and Stevie wonder came on, I traveled with Obama on both campaigns. So I was at nearly every campaign of any ever did. And,

And I remember Stevie Wonder being really tired because you're just, as we've talked about, so exhausted, like you can barely function on these campaigns, although it's adrenaline. But remember, I remember being at the press riser and he was kind of five feet away. And I was thinking, I have to kind of enjoy this moment. I probably somewhere in my phone have video of him at an Obama event. So that will always make me think of that campaign. Do you remember what John Kerry's was? I'm trying to think of what it was.

Now I can't remember. Now I've got to jog my memory. I remember part of his stump speech was just really weird. Well, now you've got me on one other tangent. So when I love it when politicians ask show business people to come in and help either write, go straight something or get it. And so two things that I one note is John Kerry had a great opening line that he muffed.

at the Democratic convention was, I'm John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty. And if I could just said, John, don't put a space after I'm John Kerry, because they'll applaud and then it isn't as good. And then they'll miss it, which he did. He's, I'm John Kerry. And I'm reporting. Missed opportunity. So there's that. They didn't ask me. So there you go. The other one was apparently, this is great. So I don't know if you know this. So I guess Gore asked Rob Reiner

For advice on, you know, coming across less wooden and whatever during the debate, the town hall format debate against Bush, the one where you get to wander around and Rob Reiner was like, get his face. I mean, like, like, you know, like, like, get get in his space. And, you know, some actors can take direction.

And some actors can't take direction. So that's why there's that amazing moment in that debate where Bush is talking and all of a sudden Al Gore's right behind him, like literally lurking. It's like not like that. And Bush has that great moment where he turns around and goes back and actually got a laugh.

But that's where that came from. A little too literal, maybe, or not exactly. Exactly. Not the right stage direction. Not now! Not now! Yeah!

Um, please give the president my best. It's been a really, really, really long time since I've seen him. Absolutely. And again, my I just am so grateful to how nice he was to my boy and and that group of kids. It really made a big, big difference on him. And and and he grew up to be the president. And your boys have grown up, too, which is also cool. So I will tell him that I will tell him that. Please do. And I oh, is the White House Correspondents Dinner back on?

It is. As of now. They may need to call old Robbie Lowe. I'll tell them, too. I would throw my name in the hat on that. All right. All right. That's a real challenge. It's a tough room, boy. Oh, man. That room is. Yeah, it's tough. But it's an opportunity to absolutely murder. It's so right. Yes.

Yes, it is. Because there's just a type of joke that will slay in that room. Slay. Yeah. So good. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It was great talking to you. It was fun. Yeah, I'll be watching. See, that wasn't so hard, was it? Huh? All my conservative friends. It was right. She's like a real person. All my liberal friends. You're super pumped. Everybody's a winner, as it should be.

That was great. I got to nerd out. Got to politically nerd out. I hope you guys had a blast. That was super fun. And now let's have a little gander at the lowdown line. Hello. You've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hello, Rob. This is Tim from Chicago. I really enjoy the podcast. I have a question about one of your movies. I think it's the best romantic comedy ever made. Filmed in, I think, 1986 it came out. It was called About Last Night. It's a great movie about Chicago, where I'm from. So I really enjoyed that movie. My question is, do you think...

Do Dan and Debbie stay together? Do they get married? Do they live happily ever after? At the end, they kind of left it open there. But do you think they'd still be together, in your opinion? All right. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you so much. Greatest romantic comedy of all time. I'll take it. I do like that movie a lot, by the way. And I put it up there. I definitely, with all humility...

put it up there with any romantic comedy. I really do. Of course, we're both biased. You live in Chicago and I'm in it. So what the hell do you and I know? But that said, it's funny. There were two sequel scripts written for that movie addressing that very question. They were really good, both of them. And they just never got made for whatever reason. I definitely think Danny and Debbie got together and lived happily ever after. I mean...

100%. And, and, and there was a, there was a moment in time where I would have loved to, maybe I would still do it where you would, you would go back and not even go back, but revisit what, what, whatever happened to them. Um, but that's a function of how brilliant that script was, um, based on a David Mamet play, sexual perversity in Chicago is the name of it. And then Tim Kazerinsky and Denise DeClew, um, Saturday Night Live and other people, they wrote the screenplay.

And yeah, it's one for sure of the of the 80s era movies. I did definitely the one I'm the most proud of. So I'm glad that you like it to appreciate your call. Thanks so much. Listen, tune in next week. And also don't forget to give us a five star rating on Apple. It's always really important to the show. You guys are great fans of the show. If you're a great fan, you can really help out by doing that. And also while I'm at it, don't forget to listen to Parks and Recollection this week.

Alan Yang and I are breaking down one of the best Parks and Rec episodes this week. And I will see you next time, though, here on Literal.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile. Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Our researcher is Alyssa Grahl. Our talent bookers are Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.

And music is by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week on Literally with Rob Lowe. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

At Ashley, you'll find colorful furniture that brings your home to life. Ashley makes it easier than ever to express your personal style with an array of looks in fun trending hues to choose from, from earth tones to vibrant colors to calming blues and greens. Ashley has pieces for every room in the house in the season's most sought after shades. A more colorful life starts at Ashley. Shop in store online today. Ashley, for the love of home.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers, passport. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

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