Kelsey Grammer: Vanity is Required
42:53 Share

Art in your home can instantly transform your space and bring you joy. Saatchi Art makes it easy for you to discover and buy one-of-a-kind art that you'll love. Whether you're looking to complement your home decor, fill a blank space on your walls, or start an art collection, you can find the perfect piece for your specific style and budget at Saatchi Art. Go to SaatchiArt.com today to bring the beauty of art into your home. Plus, listeners get 15% off their first order of original art with code ROB.

That's 15% off at SaatchiArt.com. S-A-A-T-C-H-I-Art.com. Ever wish your favorite TV show had twice as many episodes? Everyone knows that feeling, and so does Discover. Everyone wants more of their favorites. That's why Discover doubles another favorite thing, cash back.

That's right. Discover automatically doubles the cash back earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with Cash Back Match. Now that's a real crowd pleaser. Everyone knows how it ends. Double the cash back. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. Hi, Kelsey. Hey, Ron. How are you, man? I'm good. I'm so psyched to have you here. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks.

Hey everybody, it's Literally with me, your host, Rob Lowe. Today we have one of the titans of acting. Mostly known for huge TV characters. He's got more Emmys, I think, than almost anybody who ever lived. He's played his seminal character, Frasier, for literally, he's been playing Frasier since 1986. And apparently Frasier is coming back.

But he's also an insane Shakespearean actor and can do drama, can do it all. He's going to talk about some of his new stuff. But I'm excited to talk about acting with one of my heroes, Kelsey Grammer.

Kelsey, I know you're a renaissance man, but you've got a beer coming out? This sounds both insane and amazing. Yeah, it's the fulfillment of what has been a dream I've nourished over the past decade or two. And it finally came to fruition. And the beer is good. I'm really excited about that. And we've got some news on that front. What's it called? Faith American. Faith American.

Yeah, it's not that subtle, is it? I love it, though. But I believe in America. I always have, and I believe we're going to be okay. And the beer reflects the idea that some of our greatest moments were sitting down together with family, having a beer. And so that's an extension of that. And your beer is named after your daughter. I think that's great. I have...

Very early memories of running around the Paramount lot when I was a young actor. Oh, and you guys were making cheers. Yeah. Right. Right. And do you remember the casting director, Bobby Hoffman? I do. Yes. Because like he was the king of the Paramount lot because of the Gary Marshall cast.

Right, yeah, right. Of course. Yeah, yeah. Like, Gary Marshall ran the Paramount lot. Yes, he did for quite some time. For quite some time. And Bobby Hoffman cast all his stuff. And I was always auditioning and it was not to be. Entertainment usually has that kind of series of casualties that just fall by the wayside because they are, like, popular. I mean, I produced a show several years ago when Emeril was really popular.

Yep. And, uh, I got a call from Jeff Zucker at the time and just said, listen, we love your show, but, um, this Emerald guy is scoring like through the roof. So we're going to, we're going to put him on the air and not your show. Just the way it goes, you know, and, uh, that show was gone in a year, which was, you know, too bad. Um, but that often happens, you know, that people have confidence in an occurring development slate that, uh,

seems right at the time. And then of course, most of it sort of, you know, filters through and you find out that 70% of this doesn't last for a year. So, and, and nobody really trusts their gut. Yeah.

Because they could get fired. If you have data, however dubious the data is. There's a lot of checked boxes there that could have worked. I read a great quote from somebody that said, it just didn't fit with our audience. I said, yeah, the audience, it doesn't like great people. Well, and, you know, and that's the other thing on this podcast over the times I've talked to so many people, I think.

Because if you're around as long as you are, around as long as I am, you have a very gimlet-eyed...

sort of take on on what it is and what it isn't and you know there are the amazing moments of it and then the not so amazing moments of it and this for me was like i'm always still paying attention but on the other side of it as you know it means that some other door is opening this is where you're really meant to be things are uh things are fantastic so i mean you know that's yeah we're okay and you know and you move on and listen you you always have great

Great things going on. You have a show on now that's fantastic. Yeah. Tell me a little about Charming the Hearts of Men, which, by the way, I love that title. Sometimes a title like you go, yeah, and other times you go, there's something about that. I go, I like that title. What is this? It's an interesting thing. It's about the man who was responsible for inserting the word sex into the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Now, very few people know that that bill was originally written, you know, as spearheaded by Dr. Martin Luther King and by the movement to bring equality into the country and basically pass control of a lot of power that was, you know, being thrown around in Washington, D.C., to pass it along to other people. And this one guy finally said, if we pass this bill as written, it doesn't include women.

Wow. And that's why he inserted the word sex. You cannot discriminate based upon race, color, creed or sex.

And it was before it had nothing to do with women. And he's the one guy that made it change. He lives in complete obscurity now because he was a Southern Democrat, Dixie Crab, basically, who is, you know, tarred with the same brushes, you know, any number of guys from that era. But he took a really courageous stance. So there's one moment in the film where a young woman says to him, you'll be a hero. And he says, I'll be laughed at.

In a lot of ways, he was right. But they passed it with the word sex in it. And that was the beginning of equality for everybody.

What a great story. I can't wait. It's a great story. It is a great story and it's a charming movie and it's worth its time. Gregory Peck, I heard him say once, he said, I always wanted people to think that if they spent time watching my work, they considered it time well spent. And I've always embraced that same phrase. This movie, Charming Hearts of Men,

is time well spent. Awesome. Frazier's going to come back to... Well, that's a whole other thing. The game is coming back. We're on to the fifth script of that, and I think we'll start shooting in about three weeks, which is cool. There is some stuff that's going on. I've got a couple of

films out, which have done fairly well. And they're still sort of going. We've got a new slate or two coming up still. So, I mean, that's been rewarding. I've shot six films in the last couple of years. So, it's been good. I loved you in the movie you did with De Niro.

Oh, some time ago. Yeah, I know. It's a while ago, but you were great in that. Oh, thanks, man. It was great work with him. I was blown away by them because, I mean, you know, they end up killing him. I mean, I thought, oh, my God, it's Robert De Niro. They're killing him. Holy crap. Oh, so good in that. Yeah. I mean, listen, everybody who didn't love Frasier, I want to do a show like that. I want to do a literate

It's a play. It was a comedy play every week. It was a celebration of language and it was super precise and great wordsmiths and actors who could handle language. And I just don't know why there isn't more. I have a theory of why there isn't more of it, but I wonder if you do too. Well, it's not as easily done as people would think it was.

Language is interesting, though. I do believe that if you come from a mentality of playing up to your audience, and that's the place we came from, the audience will respond. The audience will find it. I mean, our demographic, I guess, cuts across all cultural definitions. I mean, it is really, really popular in any number of different what you'd identify as certain viewing classes, I suppose. But

we just play up to the audience and you find in time that people are smarter than you thought they were and they always responded that and in terms of what's the universal value of you know it's a couple of brothers who have been crazy throughout the years they had a great relation with their dad that was tortured but they also discovered how much they loved each other these are universal values that transcend any kind of other boundaries and so i think that's the key and then you got to make sure that you're just uh

honest about it every week. You know, you make sure you're telling the truth, the truth that you know, and that truth will relate to almost everybody if it's good. It's one of those things. It's simple, but it's not easy. Yeah. It's definitely not easy to do, but

I think you get a group of good people together and they can make it seem. And that's the trick. I also think it would be so rewarding. Look, it's not easy to do. But I also think that for whatever reason, writers who have that ability in this moment in time...

aren't writing in that genre. And by that, I mean the multi-camera. Right. Yeah. Well, multi-cam just has suffered a bit of a, you know, a depopulation. I think it's poised for a pretty good comeback, but they're going to need to do it better. I mean, because honestly, a lot of kids, you know, a lot of kids, oh, maybe, you know,

you know, between 15 and 25 now, basically just got raised on multicamps that were done by Disney. And, you know, I'm not saying anything wrong about Disney, but those particular shows were pretty formulaic and the punchlines were pretty predictable and they were pretty much in a cadence that was one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. And so, yeah,

there was no real reliance on the audience for those. There was no real engagement with the audience. It was just sort of a presumption that, oh, they'll watch this amount of audience as long as we make a big enough, silly enough gesture as a punchline, the audience will do what we expect them to do. Unfortunately, the audience did do what an audience should do. They tuned out. So we need to just go back to the drawing room a little bit and...

And get it crafted the right way again. Human, funny, intelligent, and thorough. A more thorough examination of the human experience in any situation merits more attention. Under all. That's my theory. That was prestige television. That was prestige comedy. Comedy is always very... It's weird. I feel like comedy is almost snobbier than drama in a weird way. Right? And so...

The net, a network multicam show. There was a time when that was prestige television. It's almost impossible to imagine today. Now it's like, you know, it's like Bo Burnham locks himself in a closet with a camera and that's his, that's his hip and cool and cutting edge as anybody can possibly imagine. And it is, but there was a time when,

When you could do a multi-camera wide audience for everybody and it had all the patina of the intellectual class that anybody could hope to have. And I just don't understand why we can't have that again. I believe we can. Listen, I love America. I love American programming. I love all the things we're going through as a country because, you know what, in the end,

We're still together. We're still one country. We're still one group of people who all really pretty much aspire to the same things, which is just excellence, excellence, success, prosperity. Nobody's looking for reliance on the government. Nobody's looking for handouts. Nobody really wants that. People want to get through things and make sure they do it

with freedom with their with their you know with their dreams intact i mean it's not to need somebody else to dictate their dreams to them they need to actually go ahead and do the fight for themselves and be allowed the playground that's what we need to do and that's what we're going to do

Prime one-day delivery is fast. How fast we talking? We talking Bunchy and Cornhole sets you order two minutes ago for your backyard party tomorrow delivered fast. Peaky Torches and Bug Zappers delivered fast. Can I come to your party? I'm a great conversationalist. I make friends fast. Fast one-day delivery on 20 million items. It's on Prime. I have an acting question for you. Okay. Because you alluded to it earlier. And I don't want to beat up on Disney either. But I will watch some, like I watched Hannah Montana.

And is it, it's like American teenage Kabuki meets vaudevillian. There's a bit of slapstick isn't there? Pantomime. I don't know what's, what's happening, but is there, is there a multi-camera style? Well, there's a shooting style that I think is a great style. I mean, you get to do two takes and you get eight, eight shots at the same time. I mean, it's fantastic. I mean, you couldn't ask for a more luxurious way to put something together in terms of the viewer director's eye. Um,

You can get as much depth as you want. You just have to aim for it. Your intention has to be you're going to get some drama and some comedy and some relatability and some entertainment value. The thing that you're saying about the Hannah Montana thing, for instance, I mean, yeah, I never actually did see that show, but it sort of fell into cracks in terms of my set of kids. Three sets. I think what's happened is

They make a presumption about what a team is interested in, and they need to connect it to selling things. And you end up with a kind of shrill attention-getting

series of slapstick moments. Yeah. I mean, it is sort of slapstick. There is that at least, but it doesn't have the, it doesn't have the same content. You know, that sort of the thing that sneaks in underneath. That's right. And gets you and you go, Oh yeah, no, I get it. That's playing out to the audience. Even as silly as that is. It's very funny, but okay. It's, I guess what I'm saying is like, there is a difference. I think that you can't, you can't deliver the same performance, uh,

in a close-up in a movie of the same moment if you're doing it on Broadway? Because it won't read. The audience won't see it. I'll be way too big on the camera. Right, so I guess what I'm asking is, is that though the same in a...

If you're making a comedy like New Girl or you're making a comedy like a single camera comedy versus the multi-camera comedy, is it the same thing? Can you act the same way on Frasier that you can in a... Do you know what I'm saying? I'm not being as articulate as I would like to be, but you know what I mean? For instance, Jimmy Stewart was always capable of being quite large on camera. You know, emotional and funny. He really, he was really big.

And but always believable. And that's probably the difference. You know, I mean, some people know how to make that believable. Some people don't.

You know, that's when you're, that's when casting once again becomes the chief issue. That's, that's so fast. It makes it so simple. It's just, it's not about anything other than maybe, maybe it's a smidge bigger or it can be as big as you want. As long as they trust you, as long as they, as long as they believe, as long as they believe you. I mean, I think of, I think of Kramer on Seinfeld coming in and out of doors and

right about as big as it gets he was as big as any human being has ever been on on anywhere anywhere it was yes it was not containable but yeah there are certain obligations you have in terms of theater when you're performing live on the stage in front of 2 000 people you have to get to the back brother yeah and so there is a kind of

largeness about the performance, I guess. But it still has to seem true. And that's a really fine kind of subtle balancing act that people do. We're really good at it. I mean, you've got to get good at it. I mean, that's the real thing. Shakespeare, for instance, is indescribable for most people until somebody good at it starts to make it sound like real language to you. And you suddenly go, wow, whoa, whoa, whoa. I had no idea a person could say things like that.

And then you realize why he's still there. It is funny when you see somebody great do it and you've done a ton of it. And I want to talk to you about that a little bit. But when you, I mean, for me, it was when I saw Ian McKellen. Oh, I mean, it's absolutely natural. It sounds just like regular old language, like somebody just talking.

Just talking. He's not doing anything fancy. He's not doing Shakespeare in quotation marks. It's just a man telling a story, being relatable. I saw him in Richard III, which blew my mind. And then I saw him in Ian McKellen acting Shakespeare, which was a one-man show where he just did. Oh, that was fairly recent, right? Yeah.

Well, the iteration I saw was actually a long time ago. He did something recently about it. He went on tour and did a whole thing for charity about two years ago. I'm sure that's what he just revived. It was spectacular. Right. He's a loving guy. Isn't he? Just the best. But, you know, it's that there's technique to it and then there's the emotional technique. It's just the difference of, you know, in a close-up you can

look at somebody by shifting your eye don't move your head at all but if on stage you better move that whole big head yeah well yeah to go back to the film reference you're making yeah i mean you go much smaller i mean honestly it's almost painful for a theater actor at first to try to get small enough for a camera you know because you don't want to appear too big but you realize oh my god i'm so used to just moving my eyebrows and it's almost too much i

I did a play in the West End for a while. It was A Few Good Men. And it's a great play. Oh, yeah. I think I was around when you were doing that. It was so fun. But sometimes you would do line runs with the cast just to say sharp. You know, they'd come to the dressing room before. And it was literally just a line run. That's it. Just blow through the lines as quick as we can.

just to make sure we're sharp. And you're sitting in a little semicircle and you're talking like this. You're talking, you're just doing the lines. And you're like, oh my God, I'd love to do the play like this. So good. I would love to not have to project to the back of the Haymarket Theater. It would be interesting to actually do that as a sort of interface with the production, the actual production. Maybe do a...

documentary about it. I did work with Christopher Walken on stage, and he basically did do that during his performance. He

Christopher Walken's a pretty courageous guy. He does not give, as they say, any fucks. I know. It's amazing. What part did you do with him? I mean, I saw him on stage in... Did you see him in Coriolanus? That's the famous one. No, I didn't see that. In The Tempest, I saw him with... Who was the other one? Carol Kane was in it. It was

It was some time ago. That's a good group. It was a good group. It was a fairly good production. It just had a few challenges. So are you familiar with the Williamstown Theater Festival? Yes, I am. Yeah. So this was at the Williamstown Theater Festival. Oh, cool. And it was Three Sisters.

No. And it was Chris Walken, John Hurd. Oh, that's a good group. Yeah, I need you. I did a Macbeth with his sister, Cordis. Cordis Hurd. It's a good group, but Chris would come on stage and turn his back to the audience routinely and talk quieter than I'm talking to you in a theater of a thousand people. And people would start screaming.

We can't hear what speak up. Like literally the audience would scream at him. Uh-huh. Well, that would be an interesting thing to see. And he would come off stage and he'd be like, that was so exciting. The audience was yelling like a ball game. And I'd be like, Chris, they were yelling because they couldn't hear you. I wanted to see your performance. It was. And so this is, I think you'll appreciate this. So he had a moment in the show where,

That I would come to the wings every night to watch. And the moment was, you know, the village is burning down, town's burning down, and we're all up in the attic. And someone comes in to report about what's been going on in the village. And Chris had the line, how's the fire going?

And I don't know what it was about it, but it made me laugh out loud every single night. And I never really understood it until one day I picked up a script thinking it was mine to do some studying. And it was Chris's. And it was open to that scene. And in his script on that line, he had crossed out, how's the fire? And written in, how's the barbecue? Yeah.

And that's exactly what he did every night. He was like, how's the barbecue? That's basically what he was saying. I love the school that believes that William Shakespeare would have consistently changed his language.

would have always said, oh, that's funnier. Yeah, say barbecue. You know, in the context of knowing what a barbecue is today, no one probably knew what a barbecue was in Shakespeare's day. But that's actually a funnier line because that has irony in it and kind of, it has a sense that he doesn't give a fly in, you know. Yeah, right. And,

It's loaded with subtext. It's a very, very good rewrite. I'm sure Shakespeare would have embraced it. Yet would Chekhov have embraced it is the question. Chekhov might have been a little bit more of a stickler, but Chekhov was a bit more of a behaviorist. I went to school with a guy whose wife was actually a favorite of Chekhov's. So he told me that in rehearsal, Chekhov once said, oh, Astroff whistles. And he said that's an indication that he's a happy person. Hmm.

So that's different. Shakespeare, you don't have to guess who Shakespeare, he tells you who they are. I mean, there is nothing left for you to think up if you read the words that Shakespeare wrote about a character. There's actually, you are not, you need not abandon yourself to like, oh, what's he really feeling? No, the subtext is written in beautiful language. That's an amazing, amazing gift.

What is your favorite Shakespearean production you were involved with? Othello? My favorite one that I, well, Othello was certainly popular and that was fun because I did that for a year and I was on Broadway and, you know, it was all things with bells and whistles, you know, you could train them as a young man. And so I did get to kind of live that with Christopher Plummer and James Earl Jones. I played Cassio and

We had sort of a string of different Desdemonas, but they were all lovely. I mean, Karen Dotrice was one. Diane Wiest was another. Just some wonderful people. Oh, and a girl named Shannon John, who was just terrific, who ended up dying. Just a tragic death. But, you know, a great production is always great. You'll always remember it as something that was a highlight of your life. And that was certainly one.

i've done some comedies and were pretty good as you like it was good um this summer night stream i was in a couple of those were great i did one at school actually with robin williams hysterical oh he was just amazing

I did a couple of Macbeths and enjoyed both of those. Well, no, I've done three. Wow. But I really, really enjoy that role. It's almost impossible to do successfully, but it's only because there's so many people want to put an overlay on it once again, when I think you can just actually do it straight.

when my kids screaming for my wife that's one of the princes from macbeth going don't do it yeah it could be dad no more what was it like to audition for juilliard i assume you had to audition it was great um i flew from fort lauderdale and um this is where i've been doing some plays in high school and i thought well i'm not gonna do it i think i'm gonna try to be an actor so i got my audition for julia i'd say

I went up and I did Midsummer Night's Dream. I did Nick Bottom from Midsummer Night's Dream. And I did, my other piece was Willie Loman from Death of a Salesman. Wow. Yeah. No, I wasn't. You weren't fucking around. You were like, this is it. I was serious. No kidding. I was serious. A man's not a piece of fruit. So the audition ends. Well, here's what happened. So I walk in and we're...

Where I was going to school, they said, if you're going to relax, you should loosen your belt or you can just take it off, pull your T-shirt out and, you know, just relax, hang your head down, take a couple of deep breaths, take shoes off. So this this guy had said to me before the audition, he said, OK,

Relax. I thought, okay. So I did all that. I took my shirt off, pulled my T-shirt out of my pants, took my belt off and took my shoes off. And then they said, okay, we're ready for it. I thought, okay. So I walked out. So I'm the only kid that ever was in bare feet, I think. But I did these two pieces and there was a big thrust theater. There was like three stories of seats around and there were little shadow spots.

where there were actual human beings watching the audition and finally a voice came after the audition from john houseman oh boy in shadow no mr crevice do you intend to make uh acting your career i said uh well i i flew up here from fort lauderdale that night that's about it

And then I said, thank you. And I left. And then somebody came backstage to the locker rooms. I was putting my clothes back on. And she said, we have a question about your application here. It says you don't have any money. Yes. And I said, I don't at this point. And she said, so you would want financial assistance. I said, I'm afraid I'd be. Yes. Yes, I would. And she said, do you have any other questions? I said, yeah. Yeah. How do I do it?

And she said, well, it was a good moment. And I got in. It was pretty amazing. And then Robin came to class a couple of months into the first year. And he joined from another program somewhere. When you met him, were you like, oh, this guy's special? Yeah. I mean, he was funny all the time. He just was always funny. We had a pretty good relationship. We used to.

Robin helped me carry my first couch off the garbage feet into my apartment. Amazing. So I went to the first piece of furniture. I sort of slept on it for a while. Didn't have a cushion. Just had it on the box. That's so good. We had a good, good beginning. It was a good beginning for creative people. It was wonderful. Yeah, I think it's so valuable. I'm always so envious of people who...

did that we all have our paths you know i mean you know i don't need to tell you life you know you never know what life is gonna you know um but i just stumbled i always wanted to do it from the time i was eight and you know just grind it away grind it away and and you know did whatever i had to do and work but i always kind of worked and so that i never had any time to

to do that. Amazing. I work with so many Juilliard people over the year. When I was doing West Wing, Brad Whitford is a Juilliard guy. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah. I know Brad. Yeah, and Bradley loves his Juilliard relaxing exercises. They used to make me laugh. They were so fun. I mean, the stuff he would... There's a whole, right? A whole activity thing. It's so good. I'm like, damn, boy.

♪♪♪

Okay, let's talk about the Frasier reboot because it's so exciting. Frasier, you know, I read an article recently where it quoted me, but it misunderstood the message. I said, Frasier will end up being rich beyond his imagination. It's because of his emotional life that he'll be rich beyond his imagination. Right.

Rich in love, rich in family, rich in experience is what I meant to say. He will be pretty comfortable financially because he's had some success in Chicago, blah, blah, blah. That's the backstory. But his wealth has to do with his experience and the love that he has been given throughout his lifetime when he least expected it.

a series of challenges always ended up being the best experience for him. And so that's what we are repeating in terms of Frasier. And I'm pretty happy about

how we're going about it. So that's as much as I can really comfortably say it. Yeah, no. And I, and I appreciate you even telling me, cause it's that so many eyes will be on this. So, so many people want to know what it is, isn't spoiler alerts and all that, that kind of stuff. I, when you, um, what's amazing to hear, I don't know why it makes me so happy to hear you talk about the character, uh,

with such love and affection and excitement after all you've played him for 20 years how many years you've been playing since 1986 yeah he was always as fresh as life itself though i mean that's the thing it's uh we're we're just an expression of life right you know holding up the mirror to reality you know and that's that's who he is he's the mirror he's he he's everything you know and it's like if you do it right pay attention

It's as big as life itself. Was it always, and you're going way back to the mid-80s and it's a six episode appearance of the character. Would you have ever have dreamed? No, no, I never thought he was going to be anything more than that little run on cheers. And then as things progressed, you know, they said, we'd like you to stick around, blah, blah, blah. Then they made me a regular on the show. It sort of became something different.

and then paramount approached me about doing a new show when um cheers was over and um that was not meant to be fraser but uh after kicking it around for a while we all agreed that fraser was probably the best way to go and so he had a new life but fraser was a little bit like i like george bailey you know jimmy stewart um

Just he always thinks he's going to go, you know, he's got his suitcase ready to go to Europe or travel around or whatever it's going to be, become a great writer or whatever it is he wants to do. And something else takes him in another direction.

That's right. Yeah. Sort of like life. It's the notion of him as a talk show therapist was way ahead of its time, too, by the way. Don't you think? Yeah. At the time. Yeah. You know what? I mean, there was some traction at that time on radio with that kind of a personality. But I always wanted him to do no harm. You know, his focus on things was to actually try to do some good for people.

and i think that was the key to him i mean he was always trying to do the world some good and uh so the show was not irresponsible once again once again it's like you could have tried to make it hysterical just by making it noisy i guess but it had to be connected to some some some attempted virtue you know and then that i think made it funnier yeah do you um ever

debate a joke where you're like, or a moment or a beat where you're like, yeah, it's funny. There's no getting around it. And, and it's in it's, and it's within my character's world to do it. But I just, I just don't know. You're, you're, you are as the character, you know, as an actor, you know, you're the last line of defense for that character. Right. And your, your personal understanding of what that character is capable of saying is your job.

And if you have a producer who says, no, you say it the way I'm telling you to say it or else, then you have the responsibility to say, fuck off. I'm sorry. I will not do that.

And that's that you're then that's hopefully you've got a good producer or a good writer. They understand that you are that last line of defense for a character they're in love with for a character that they may have even written originally. Yeah, but it has nothing to do with them anymore. Once the actor has that character in his little grip,

It's his. He's the expert. He's the only one who knows anymore. And they can try to write things that will take them in another direction or something like that. If it's really false and it feels wrong to the actor, there's no way he's going to make it real or anything different. So they have to start listening. Comedy is harder for sure. It's more fun. I actually think it's easier for me. Yeah, that's interesting. I never watch myself in a drama.

I never checked the camera or the playback or anything else or the edits when I'm in that position. But in Frasier, I watched him and I'd make notes. And I'd say, we missed a word there. You missed a tiny word. You have blown a whole joke. You miss the tiniest thing. And those nuances are the most valuable thing you have going for you in terms of connecting to the audience. In drama, you don't need nuance. You just need sort of a general nuance.

You know, it has to, you have to feel it has to be connected. Or even if you're paying, playing the bad guy, it's a general connection. It's not as specific as comedy is. And that's, I think what people say as far. Yeah, it's, it's true. And I, for me, it like, I,

there's like a lack there's a lightness there's a lack of baggage i feel when i just get to be funny like it's like vanity goes away i mean it never goes away let's face it i'm a fucking anchor i'm my vanity is strong as the day is required i mean you know you wouldn't get up in the morning you know yes i would we would just be in our sweatpants that'd be awful feeding our faces with chocolates without i think vanity has a bad name um

But I do feel a certain freedom doing that. Do you have a preference or do you just like to go back and forth in terms of spending your time doing a drama? I think you've got to do them both. And you know, I did a movie with Charlie Dern a long time ago. Great man. He said to me, he said, I always go to a play every year. And I thought to myself, boy, I sure admire that. Because the only play that keeps you in touch with the dream, you know, with what it was. It's the big, it's the big ask. It's the one that...

Pushes all the buttons, makes all the cylinders fire. And so I've done one every couple of years. I couldn't live up to Charlie's dedication to it. But boy, he was a great actor. And those experiences have been wonderful on stage, of course. Mixed kind of experiences, but still fantastic. I saw Charles Durning in the Tennessee Williams, one of the gosh.

He played big daddy. Oh yeah. Yeah. Wow. I mean, he was a fantastic guy, right? I mean, just as sweet and lovable as any guy ever and a war hero and a golden glass boxer. And I mean, and, uh, uh, uh, was an Arthur Murray dance instructor. I mean, this guy was, he was remarkable on every level. Um,

I'm not sure we're making a lot of people like that. You know what, man? You beat me to the next question. I'll tell you. You beat me to the next question because I go.

I mean, I hope that young actors, and I know some of them are, because I've worked with them and I know them. But I hope that they have the same kind of, that this conversation would be as interesting to them as it is to us. Because really, when you peel that back, what we're talking about is the love of what we do, why we do it, how we do it, and the history of the people who did it before us. No, you're completely right. And where is their excellence?

Where is their greatness? And then their greatness usually comes from the fact that they're great people. They have had great challenges, that they have lived life in a fuller way than some people and that they're able to bring it to bear into their work. You will not find remarkable people like Charlie Durning just anywhere. And, yeah.

We need those people in every part of our lives. I mean, in every part of America, we need those people. We need people who are virtuous people, people who stand for something that was actually probably expensive for them to make that life choice, probably cost them something. You need remarkable people. And that's a

That's in short supply. I'd like to have people change my mind. I could talk more to you, Kelsey, but I want to kind of end on that because I thought that's super, super articulate and it's got me thinking and it's also got me grateful that

You know, we have been blessed to know some of those people. Yeah, we sure have. And you know what? You've lived a pretty good life, my friend. And I have too. I've had a lot of love in my life. And I wouldn't have had it had it not been for this job. It's been a remarkable thing. Same. Gratitude. I try to live in gratitude every day. That's my...

It's everything for sure. Kelsey, this is great. I love that. Listen, let me know if you need a younger brother for Frasier. You never know. Bro, listen, I'm not kidding. I love it. I've thought for years about, fuck, I wish I was on Frasier. Well, maybe we can find a way to do that. That'd be really fun. Dude. All right. Thanks, Kelsey. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the show. Really, really, truly do. This is awesome.

That was fun. Thank you very much. What an articulate, wonderful man. So when I talk to people like that, I get re-inspired. I really do. I really get re-inspired about what acting can be and why we do it. To hear him articulate his views on that, I'm feeling warm and fuzzy. And I hope you are too. And now it is time to check the lowdown line. Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line.

where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Rob, this is Brian from Pittsburgh. My child and I just got into a massive argument over your age while watching Parks and Recreation. She wants to know how you managed to stay looking so young and so amazing. Thank you. Have a good day. Oh.

Oh, thank you. You made my day. Well, I think a lot of it is genetics. One of my earliest memories of my father would be going to state fairs and going to the guess your age or weight booths. I don't think they even have those anymore. Maybe they do. But we would go and crush. My dad always looked 20 years older.

younger than he was. So I think I inherited some of that. But you know, listen, only because you asked, I take super good care of my skin. I have my own skincare line.

Um, it's called profile. You can, you can, you can buy it if you're interested on, uh, you can look it up, buy it, sell it online, but I've been taking care of myself. You know, you, um, there's no free lunch. So yes, I got genetics for sure. But listen, if I was drinking all the time and out in the sun and not moisturizing and not taking care of my skin and, you know, not working at it a little bit, you know, I wouldn't look

Like Chris Traeger from Parks and Rec. Anyway, thanks for listening. There's more of this where it came from. All you got to do is download it every Thursday or subscribe, which would be better. If you're listening, go ahead, subscribe. And don't forget Parks and Rec Election, our other podcast where we do a deep dive on everything Parks and Recreation related, if you're so inclined. And I will see you next week on Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Jeff Ross, Adam Sanks, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Our talent bookers are Gina Batista, Paula Davis, and Britt Kahn, and the music is by Devin Tory Bryant. Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, and we'll see you next week.

I'm literally with Rob Lowe. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers, passport. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

With the best mattress brands under one roof.

Ashley has you and your sleep covered. Subject to credit approval. Minimum monthly payments required. No minimum purchase required. See store for details.