Maria Shriver: Not One Yip
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You're the most professional guest we've had. Really? Yeah. You come in, you're like signing the things and like you're ready to go. I'm ready to go. You got your journalism face on. I know. I also do what you did. Like, I don't want to talk to you now. I'm going to wait to talk to you. We're talking. It's happening right now. Oh, we're happening. We've already started. This is, this is happening. This is it. This is how you begin. You've never, you're still old school. No, I'm not.

I'm old school in some ways. Yeah. And then I'm very new school in other ways. Well, I know that. Well. No, we're, so Maria. You're like, oh, okay, let me turn the corner. I turn the corner. Hello, everybody, and welcome to Literally with me. Does it sound different to you right now? Because I'm sitting in my car doing this because my wife has movers at the house. So don't turn it off if the sound quality is not up to par.

And don't turn it off if you can hear my stomach growling because I'm starving at the moment. Anyway, Maria Shriver is one of my favorite people on the planet.

I wish she would run for president. And I'm not kidding. She's not only one of the smartest, brightest, most beautiful, most articulate people I know, but she comes from a fantastic legacy and has raised amazing kids. And I adore her. And I hope you enjoy this as much as I do. And I promise I won't do any more of these intros from my car ever again. Maria, what was the first time we met? I'm trying to think of...

Do you know when it was? I actually remember the first time I saw you, which is different than the first time I saw you. The first time I saw you was skating, ice skating in Sun Valley. No, that's not right. In the Little Public Rink. No, because you came to Sun Valley because you already knew me. That's much later. When was it? Well, that couldn't be the first time you saw me then. I saw you there when Catherine was literally, Arnold was pushing Catherine on a chair across the ice rink as there was an announcement that,

No chairs on the ice rink. Please return the chairs to the ice rink. We already knew you then. Did you know me then? Yeah. When's the first time you remember meeting me? I met you at the Harberts. Oh, I remember that. Yeah, I met you at the Harberts. That was the Harberts. But we didn't really kind of – I don't know that we – it was more like we just met. And then we had kids –

Around the same time. And I became friendly with Cheryl. That's right. And then I remember us ending up in the Bahamas. That's correct. That's right. At the same time. Really bonding. It was Cheryl's 40th birthday. And I, of course, campaigned for your father when I was eight. You did? Yeah. McGovern Shriver. I have the button. For the record. Do you have a McGovern Shriver like...

Bag or sticker or anything. I have a McGovern-Shriver button. That's so great. Well, we didn't meet then, though. I was campaigning for them, too. I actually came to Ohio. Did you come to Dayton?

I probably did come to Dayton. I met... Yeah, but we didn't meet. We could have met then. Can you imagine? I'm eight. Can you imagine? Hi! And I was 16. So that tells you I'm older than you. No, I'm not. You would have looked at me and gone, older woman. I would have gone, wow. Older woman, wow. All pass. But no, we've... That's a wrap. So we've known each other for what? How many...

I would say more than 20 years. More than 20 years. More than 20 years. Yeah. Yeah. More than 20 years. Through thick and thin. Yeah. High and low. I mean. Those are the best relationships. Yeah. And through life events that if we had said, if somebody had said, hey, here's what's going to happen in the future, you'd have been like, no, it's not. Are you out of your mind?

And we've lived through all of it, the good and bad in every way. Yeah, that's why I think this is what comes back to this is a moment and we're going to get through it. You do such a great job of sort of leading your family and your kids as your kids are like my second kids. That's right. And vice versa. Yeah. What do you find the difference between the way they think and the way we think? I'm not talking specifically so much about your kids. I'm talking about just generationally. Like when I sit with my boys, I'm

I am always blown away with their worldview because in many ways it's so different than mine. And I don't know if that's a product of just the fact that they're younger or if it is a product of they've grown up in a different time. Well, I think your parents probably felt that about you, right? Yeah, for sure. And so I think we always think that about people who come along and have different experiences. Yeah.

So, 'cause they are different, they're having different experiences. And I think the truth is that we're all different every day from the day before. We're all different every year from the day before. And so they have less time to be different. Their worldview is different.

I was talking this morning, you know, like I grew up in having collective moments. I grew up in assassinations. I grew up in the civil rights movement. I grew up in the AIDS epidemic. I have a reference point for what's going on, for what we're experiencing right now. Right. They don't have that. So I was saying- Yeah, they barely have 9-11. They have 9-11. Barely. But that's-

That was a moment, right? And this is a moment also, it's being dragged out, but we're not being called to come together. 9-11, we were called to come together. After my uncle's assassination, we came together. The civil rights movement marches and assassinations, we didn't really. And I think we have the repercussions. I think this is a moment where

that leaders can call us together. But why don't we have, listen, this is a longer conversation. What, but that's why we do a podcast because we have long conversations. So why don't we have the kind of leaders? What is, what is bread? I think we're all leaders. I think we're all leaders. I think if you look at, I get, listen, listen, Ms. Shriver. Yeah. I get you. I get you on that one. I want to know why we don't have the public leaders and,

What's gone? Listen, this is your wheelhouse. This is right where you live. You know, this has been your whole life around public leaders. Right. Where have they gone, Joe DiMaggio? I think there are public leaders. I think there are public leaders. I look at my brother, the Special Olympics movement, the movement for people who are developmentally disabled. He's leading now.

He's leading globally. He's leading with language. He's leading in stature. He's leading in every way possible. I think there are people in all of these different entities who are leading beautifully. Why don't they go into...

And you just have to follow them. Why don't they go into politics? Well, they have their own stages, right? And I think in politics isn't the only place to lead. I think that that's a false view of the world, that it's the only place. I think we see spiritual leaders. We can see nonprofit leaders. We can see gun reform leaders. We can see journalistic leaders. We can see family leaders. I think, you know, is there, you know, I think certainly the other moment is

I saw Joe Biden stand up and lead in a very calm, reassuring way. I think the wave that you just saw recently, I don't know when this airs, but I think people are like, okay, wait a second. You know, like I want some calm. I want an adult in the room. And I think really we're in a moment where at this moment, I think it's not about...

Who did what? Who brought this here? Who didn't do? Let's like pull it together. Let's move forward. We can all, I think we can all pick everybody apart. You know, I just tweeted something about being on Delta and asking the flight attendants and somebody said, oh, that's easy for you to do. You flew private. I'm like, read the tweet. Take a beat. Take a beat. I think we all want to criticize. We all want to attack. We all want to judge. Do you think social media is,

See, I think social media has given voice to people that previously didn't have a voice. And they're always like, excuse me, shit disturbers, pot stirrers. They've always been around. But now they've got an equal platform. And sometimes it makes one feel like there's more divisiveness than others.

than there is. I mean, I find, particularly in an election cycle, I find that to be the case. Well, I think those of us who believe that we're not as divided as social media or maybe the news wants to let us believe need to put that narrative out there. We need to stand up. We need to say every day, we're not as divided as some people want you to think.

We need to put our voices. My brother was saying to me the other day, he said, you know, the thing is- Is Bobby which brother? You have so many brothers. I have so many brothers. I literally can't keep track. Christmas cards are a nightmare. I do. But that's true. Bobby? It's funny. No, Timothy. He was saying, you know, the thing is, is that moderation doesn't seem to have the same emotion as

as fear and hate, right? Of course, yeah, of course. So how do we kind of take the emotion and put it into the people who are sane, who are reasonable, who are calm, who are collected? Well, that'll never happen in the media because emotion sells. Well, look at us, here we are. No, how about compassion sells? How about calm sells? How about let's, we're in this together. I want you to walk into the networks and say- I just was on the networks. I've been on the last 10 days. Compassion sells. You know what we're gonna do? We're gonna do a show about moderation.

They'll be falling all over themselves for that. Are you being facetious? I'm being facetious. I'm not because I say that when I'm on the air. I've been on the air every morning for the last 10 days. You're Maria Shriver. They're going to say yes to you right there. No. Yeah, they are. And then they're going to walk out. You're walking out. She's out of her mind. That's okay. I don't care. I'm used to that. So I think it's really, you can use this platform, right? To put people up.

who have emotion in their moderation. It's not even in their moderation. I have tremendous passion towards compassion. I have tremendous passion about calm. I have tremendous passion about the issues that I'm focused on. And I have tremendous passion around...

you know, the issue of compassion towards our neighbors. I think that's, you know, as important as the people who are spewing hate and anger and division. I have just as much fervor

And just as much emotion around that as someone else could have around screaming about something else. But you're also one of the most articulate people I've ever met. And you're able to synthesize your thoughts in a way that most people aren't in an area that is hard to articulate. I mean, anybody can be angry. It's really easy. Anybody can be. But you know what I've learned, Rob? I've learned.

that the people who are angry and really judgmental and they spew it out, as I say to my kids, imagine what they're doing to themselves. Yeah, true. And that's something I learned very late in life, that people who are doing that out

what they've got going on inside. Oh my God. So I, when someone like snaps like that, I'm like, wow, I'm really sorry that that voice is attacking you first and it's coming back out here second. But like, you know, I hope you kind of take a deep breath and like be a little bit more compassion to yourself because that's in fact what will heal the world actually. Hold that thought. We'll be right back.

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Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. One of the many things I admire about you and love about you is your self-curiosity in terms of growth is sort of, you know, insatiable. Were you always someone who is on a path to learn more about themselves? Because when I was young, I didn't.

I better figure it out.

Did you have that or were you always as you are? Well, I've had moments where like getting the, you know, white pleating out of you and you have to like dig a little deeper. For sure. Yeah. But I've always been incredibly curious, which is why journalism was so great for me. And I've always been curious about the world, about...

I always felt that I saw things perhaps that other people didn't see. So when I would say, do you see this or do you see that? People go, no, what are you talking about? I was like, hmm. And so I've always led with my curiosity about other people, about myself. I've always wondered, like, being in a large family, a large political public family, where did I fit? Yeah.

I felt different in many ways. So how do I use that difference? Where did you feel like you felt growing up in your family? I felt like I was the only girl. So I had all brothers. I had a very tough mother. I know. My favorite story of your mother's is so Eunice was – how old do you think was Eunice the day that she asked me to put her on the back of a bicycle built for two kids?

And go on a race. Probably 80, late 70s or 80. I think she was 80-something. 80-something, yeah. Yeah, so, you know, it was a race for your brothers. Best buddies. For best buddies. My brother Anthony. For Anthony. See, Anthony. So many Shrivers. And they all.

All these boys, Anthony runs Best Buddies, Timmy runs Special Olympics, and also CASEL, which is the largest movement for social and emotional learning in our public schools. Mark runs Save the Children, which is doing extraordinary work. And Bobby started RED with Bono and One, which has done such incredible work with the AIDS epidemic globally. Yeah.

which I often think of that epidemic when we're in this epidemic. Me and my brothers started a flag football league. Yeah, you play really good, really well. It's changed the world. Yeah. So your wonderful mother, who is not a physically big woman. No, no, very thin. Very thin. Occupied a lot of space with her energy. Yes. But her body, teeny, teeny, tiny. Yes. And she's like, uh.

I can't do a Eunice Shriver impersonation. No, you can't. I wish I could. If I could, would you? You wouldn't like it if I did it anyway. But you can't. All right, I won't. And she, but she insists. Oh, you're an actor, actually. Thank you.

Thank you. I love the way that Maria looked like she just discovered that. I did. I just remembered it. I just remembered it. I don't think of you. But don't worry, you're not alone. I know, but I don't. I think of you, you know, I always tell people that I think of you as being super smart. Thank you. Super well-read, super opinionated on so many different fronts, super wise. And I think of you as being super smart.

And so when I think of you, I don't think of you first and foremost as an actor. I think of you first and foremost as a human being. Oh, thank you. Then I think of you as a dad and as a husband.

as an advocate for sobriety in the world, as an advocate for honesty in the world. I think of you as someone who tries a lot of different things, puts themselves out there in spaces that you make up, actually. I think of you as a writer, and I think of you as an actor. But I don't, and I also don't like to lead with

anybody with their profession. Right. I like to know who they are before I know what they do. You're great about, and thank you for that. One of the things I also love, it was great, is the way when, you know, navigating kids and you would always sit your kids' friends down. Yeah. Unlike any parent I ever saw. I thought it was awesome. And you would just make them look you in the eye and talk about who they were. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think we're very much alike in that way. I mean, I know everything about...

that group of kids is doing today. I literally know it. Our kids are all friends and they have a kind of a larger group of friends, all of whom have their own identities. And then they have a collective identity. They have their own fears and their own challenges. And I think to me, that's what's always interesting about a person is their fears, their challenges, their,

view of themselves, their lack of their view of themselves. I'm always super interested. You have a great every night, every Sunday. Yeah. Family dinner. Family dinner. The boys come all the time. Actually, it's I got to tell you, there is a I don't come. You don't come or your wife, but you're in a different city. I know. But but when I do come, I love it. But my boys are there all the time. Like, wait, it's family dinner. But that's

They're not with my family. They're with you. Yeah, they're with me, yeah. And they're really great because they always text ahead and say, we're coming, just wanted to make sure you knew, which is great because most of the time I don't know. And I'm just pulling in chairs and all that sort of stuff. But I think that that started with this kind of collective idea that people want to sit around a table. For sure. People want to be invited in. They want, it comes back to tradition, they want a tradition in.

even if they can complain that I have too much food or not the right food. Or I have one kid that says, you invite people to this table, you don't even know that well. And I go, that's the point. And I have to thank my parents for that because they invited people from all walks of life to our larger table. So you would come to our house and there'd be

You know, a member of the cabinet sitting next to a Special Olympics athlete, sitting next to an astronaut, sitting next to a religious leader, sitting next to a civil rights leader. That's how I grew up.

And so I've tried to kind of emulate that a little bit at my own table. I've tried to have a lot of young people at the table, but people that they could learn from, people who had different points of view. But I learned that from my parents. I've had more good conversations, more great conversations at that table probably than anywhere else, and great Mexican. Yeah.

Rob always complains that he has only one kind of food in my house. So when you come over, I only want to serve Mexican. So your storyline works. I know. We need to keep that going. Although, as you know, it's not true. It's like I'm very happy. It's your storyline. So I try to make it true for you. Listen, I never let the facts get in the way of the story. Ever. We have to change that. We need the facts now. No, no. We need facts. No, we just. You're doing a podcast. It needs to be based in facts. Right.

Does it? Does it, though? It's yours, so you get to do what you want. I don't even know what it is. I mean, I'm just finding my way through it. No, but I've had so much. You must have an intention with this podcast. I do. What is it? I do have an intention. Oh, here we go. See, I'm so happy for you listening because now you're all getting a little bit of a sense of what it means to be really close friends with Maria because she's turning the beams on me right now. Those big blue eyes are like, like, like.

lasering at me and she's asking me my intention. And now I'm getting a little bit of flop sweat because you want to be, you know, you want to be right or at least have a good articulate answer. And I don't. I do. I have one. What is it? You know what? It's for people to be able to take an hour, 48 minutes, whatever the hell these conversations are, and kind of just

Right.

people have never heard of and are like, holy crap, that was great. I didn't know anything about that. Or it's people they know really, really well and they're seeing a side of them that they've never seen before. What side of me do you want people to see that they haven't seen before? Oh, my gosh. Well, I mean, I have so many. Yeah.

There's part of it, we're getting that Maria Shriver laugh. You're always, I mean, look, you're a substantive woman. I didn't want to say serious because that isn't really right because you're fun and you like to have fun and you're vivacious. But look at you. People always are like shocked that I- Laugh? Laugh, yeah. I don't know why that is. People are like, oh my God.

I didn't realize that you were funny or you like to have fun. And I'm like, wow, I have to do a better job of that. And you're a great audience. Like you love, I love watching you watch people tell stories and entertain because you're so excited. Yeah. Like when your kids are talking or somebody's telling a story, you're just, you're like, you look like you're like 16 at like a Beatles concert. You're like, yay!

It's really, really fun. You're a very good skier. Mm-hmm. Really good skier. Thank you. Although you're like one or two runs and then you kind of fight. That's not true. Is that not true? No, that's not true. Really? But I'm not a 8.30 to 4.30 skier like I used to be when I was younger. Now I'm like 9.30, 10.00.

1.30, lunch, done. You like to travel. I love that. I like to travel. Yeah, I like to travel. I love adventures. I love all kinds of adventures, big and small. I'm an extrovert and an introvert. We relate. Yeah. I really relate to you on that. You know, with lots of people. And I also like, I've come, which is really fascinating to me. I've come to really enjoy my own company and my aloneness. Because my guess is you've never...

Through your life, you've not had a ton of that. How about none? How about none? How about none? And that's a big, I was saying to my brother, again, the other day, like, wow, there's this big whole storyline that nobody tells you that your own company is powerful.

great and that you can enjoy yourself and that being alone has this negative connotation. And yet being alone can be so beautiful and fulfilling. And I feel, you know, when somebody says like, you know, usually I'll go, people go, oh, you're all alone. I'm so sorry. And I'm like, don't feel sorry for me.

I'm really kind of, I feel in the greatest moment in my life in a way. I feel like I have four healthy, good children that I raised along with their dad. I feel like I get along well.

with each of them. And I know them as a unit and also individually. I have four great brothers. I have friends like you guys that I can call in the middle of the night. My work brings me meaning and purpose. So if I walk into a room alone, don't feel bad that I'm alone. You know, come over and talk to me about what my life is like. Not like... Yeah, did you...

Because I love being alone. I've always loved... Not I love being alone, but I've always gone to restaurants alone. No, that I don't do. Perfectly happy. No. Perfectly happy to do it. I go to my Starbucks alone, but I don't go and sit down and eat in a restaurant alone. Why not? Why not?

I don't know. That's one of those things. Somebody asked me the other day, what scares you? And I think maybe going into a nice restaurant for dinner by myself would probably be a real growth move for me. Okay, I'm going to hold you to that. I don't know. It's so great. It is? Yes. Mostly it's lunch, I have to say. Okay, lunch I can do. You can do lunch alone. I can do coffee alone in the morning. I can go in and grab a salad and sit down. But you probably have your phone.

Yes, but before phones, I would have something to read. But yes. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm not, yes, I'm reading the paper. I'm reading a book for sure. Yeah. But I think it's great. I think it's great to, you know, I think those, I think more people talk about the benefits of spending time, monastic time, time alone, time in retreats, that I think it

demystifies that a little bit for people. Did you do a retreat where you didn't have to talk? Yeah, I do. No, I didn't do that. I didn't do a silent retreat, although several of my brothers have done that. But I have not done that. I could, I don't. I don't know if I could do that. I've been invited to do that. I once did, I was playing a character that couldn't speak and couldn't hear in Stephen King's The Stand. So I didn't speak for

but it was on a set. So that was a really hard part, you know, having to communicate with people and not speak. And that was, it was a nightmare. It was a lot different than. But you probably learned something inhabiting the shoes of someone else's life. I did very much so. That's the great thing about being an actor. You get to inhabit that.

Other kinds of lives and other professions and other experiences. And you to learn, like I like to say, my knowledge truly is a mile wide, but an inch deep. Like I can fake. That's not true. Oh, it is true. No, it's not. Oh, for sure. Your sports knowledge is more than an inch deep.

Is it? Yeah. Really? Yeah, it is. You shouldn't always express it on Twitter, but you have a lot of sports knowledge. You have a lot of knowledge about sobriety. You have a lot of knowledge about addiction. That's true. You have a lot of knowledge about acting. You have a lot of knowledge about Hollywood. Otherwise, you wouldn't be doing that one-man show or you wouldn't have written that book. That's true, I guess. You guess. No, it's okay. But that's about the subject that I love the most, me. Me.

Me and more me. Books about me. Shows about me. Podcasts about me. And my guests, maybe. OMG. I'm not even going to help you here. You're not going to? No, I'm just going to. It's all in a... I am going to repeat it when I get home. You can't believe what Rob said. He said on his podcast... His favorite subject is him. And everybody's like, duh. Yeah, that's not going to come as a shock to anybody. Yeah, duh. Hello, do you know me?

I know. You know, you know. You can work on that now. What should I work on? What else should I work on? It being less about you. That ship has sailed. No, no. You change every day. You have the chance to become, you know, different every day, all the time. So, like, you could say, like, okay, now for the next year, you can, like, say, like, I'm going to make it about somebody other than myself. What does that look like? Yeah, and it doesn't count if it's your kids, right? Yeah, no. It could be Cheryl. Yeah.

Could be Cheryl. Could be Cheryl. My lovely wife. I have another question for you, and it is this. Okay. Could you prepare questions for me? No. No. I don't. I feel like I don't. When I talk to people, I like to have it be free-flowing. Got it. You know what I mean? Now, this is what I'm going through in my house with my kids. The stages of having kids, right? Mm-hmm.

The job hunt stage? Yeah. It's the stage immediately after Empty Nest where they're out. And they're like navigating getting jobs. How has that been –

for you. I know you still have Christopher's right about to graduate. I find that there's all of these different phases to parenting, right? There's the emptiness is when they go to college, right? And that's a transition more for the parent than the kid. I think that the transition is big for kids when they get out of college, right? Because it's that period where everything's kind of been organized for you all the way through. Yes, I made a little movie about it. It was called St. Elmo's Fire, but that's about me. Yeah.

And that was a long time ago. And how about, wow, Maria Shriver with the shade. But we can, that's the good news is we can watch it again. That's right. But it is that, it's that moment where post-college people don't think about that. Yeah, I think people, you know, post-college I found has been scary for each of my kids and has been bumpy for each of my kids because I think, and I anticipate. Who and who, which of your beautiful kids do you think navigated it the best? I would never answer that.

No, not even that? That's fairly innocuous. No, because I think they each navigated it in their own way. And I think their 20s are about navigating...

everything, right? In their own way. And I think it's more for the parent to kind of be there, but be back. Step in when needed, but step back and let kids find their way. Is it hard for you? It's hard for me to step back. It's hard for me. My parents like stepped all the way out. They didn't. No. Oh yeah. They didn't do anything. At least in my situation. But I also was like, I want to do it my own way. They weren't like, like paving, not paving the road, but they weren't like. They had done that throughout my life.

with who they were and the way they lived their lives, but I wanted to do something different than what they were doing. So I wanted to go into journalism, which was not their space or place. And it was really important to me that I navigate my own way because I wanted to kind of

Kind of as best you could say it is earn my way. Right. I wanted to go into this profession that I had deemed right for me away from politics, away from Washington and kind of find my own way and work my way up. So there wasn't they're not going to help me get a sound job in Baltimore. Right.

Right.

Because if your dad and I did a good job, we've hopefully taught you some grit. We've taught you a work ethic. We've paved a way in many ways. How do you teach a work ethic? Because you're in dust. You model it. You model it. You model it. And my parents, every single day, they got up, they went to church, and they went to work. Every day? Every day. Every day.

They got up, they went to church, they went to work. They both had briefcases and they were out the door and they worked and they worked to the day they died, both of them. And they worked and they were interested in people who work.

And that was their life, and that's what they respected. So just by osmosis, I got the point. I knew that these were two people who weren't going to be down if I sat on the couch. They weren't going to be okay if I didn't get up, make a difference, find a cause, go to work, make my own way.

That's awesome. And I knew that. I knew it. Do you think people are also born with a work ethic? I think people, you know, look, the vast majority of people have to work, have to, you know, make money, have to pay the rent, have to pay their bills. And so I think...

I have to say, I don't understand people without a work ethic. I don't either. Yeah. And I really don't find it attractive. 100%. Yeah. As my mother would always say, I don't find that attractive. That was her shade? That was her shade. That was it. She's like, I don't find that attractive at all. My sense is she probably had other ones. Oh, yeah. No. She would always say to me, I don't want to hear one yip out of you. Oh, I love it. One yip. I don't want to hear one yip out of you. Ever. Ever.

I don't want to hear one yip out of you about anything ever. About anything ever? Anything ever. Wait, but that was part of the phrase. That was her thing. I don't want to hear one yip out of you about anything ever. Now just do your work and get going. The ever part is the throw down. But I, mommy, I have a, I don't hear a yip out of you.

Ever. And she, you know, my mother was extreme. You know, she'd put in our breakfast, like in our dining room, she'd put up pictures and she'd tape them to the wall of children in Biafra starving so that when we had dinner, we were looking up at these pictures. With the flies in the eyes even? Those pictures because, and then she'd put in the middle of the table a piggy bank.

and say, "We're not eating tonight so we can send money to Biafra. We're not eating tonight." And so her thing was, you know, like, "I don't want to hear one yip out of you. Look up on the wall. I don't want to hear one yip out of you. Look at what's going on, you know, five miles from you. I don't want to hear one yip out of you."

And, and my parents were really also, you know, they sent me to live in Africa for two summers by myself. They sent me to do a lot of things that I think most responsible parents would be stunned at today, but so that I wouldn't, they wouldn't hear a yip out of me later. Yeah.

Just talking about your dad made me think of, do you have a vivid memory of when he was asked to run for vice president? Yeah, I was in Senegal, actually, in Africa. So that nobody could hear any yips. So nobody could hear any yips. No yips coming from Senegal. And I remember the embassy there came to tell me that that's what had happened and that they felt that I should leave.

And so I left actually and came back and then they had a kind of a little mini convention

And that's when I really discovered journalism. And because I ended up on the campaign plane and I ended up sitting in the back. I was 16. Oh, my God. And I ended up sitting in the back with the journalists. And it was there that I discovered, wait a second. First of all, these people in the back are having more fun. For sure. The people in the front are like super serious. And the people in the back are controlling journalism.

What the people in the front say in a way, they're controlling what the vast majority of people think about the people in the front. So I'm like, I'm going with the people in the back. And it was then and there that I decided I wanted to be in the back of the plane, the back of the bus, not in the front. I never knew that. Yeah.

That's how I came up with my journalism thing. And there was only one woman in the back of the plane, which was Cassie Mackin. And she was a journalist. And I was used to being around all men. I was used to... It was still very much a boys club. It was a boys club then. It was a boys club in the back of the plane. But I grew up in a boys club. So I...

Fit in. I fit in. I got it. I understood it. And so even when I went to work in Philadelphia, the local station was a boys club. I was like, I get this. I have all I had a lot of male cousins. I had all brothers. We have a lot of people that listen to the podcast who are women, young women, women of all ages. What's the I know it's hard to distill it down to one thing, but what are your big takeaways from making it in a boys club?

Well, I think kind of making it in the world is a bigger thing. And I think, you know, what I try to see, you got to be, you got to have a strong work ethic. You have to have grit. You have to have determination. You have to have a vision that's larger than yourself. You have to know that what you need is actually inside of you and you have to keep getting up.

You just have to keep getting up. You have to keep getting up. And I think that's something I learned. I watched my parents keep getting up and I watched them both have missions that were way larger than themselves. Their mission was never like to get a fancy car to, you know,

I never heard about that part of like, I want to make a lot of money. I want to do this. I want to do this. You know, their mission was change the world, change the world, change the world. What are we going to do? What are you doing? How are you doing it? And my parents asked it of people who were eight, nine, 10, 11. That was, that's gotta be, that's gotta be a rough visit to the Shrivers when you're eight. You just want to play Legos. You got Sergeant Shriver up your grill. My,

My mother had people volunteering in her camp who are nine and 10 and 11. And my friends used to always say, I don't want to come over to your house because it was like, you know...

I was signed up for Special Olympics and I was like, you know, it was just, but I think, you know, I kind of- Daddy, I just was at the Shrivers and I decided I want to go to Senegal. Yeah. I had a friend who went with me to Tunisia and she left in 48 hours. She was like, I'm out. And, but it was, and she's like, I think your mother never forgave me for that. I'm like, yeah, you're probably right. But, you know, my mother really liked people who were tough. Yeah.

She really liked that. Her brothers were tough. Her dad was tough. Her mother was tough in her own way. Strong, you know, perseverance. So she was into people who were, who didn't have a yip come out of them. She was- How have you not used that as a title for a book yet? I don't want to hear a yip out of you. Yes. It's so good. Is it? Yeah. Oh, it's so good. Yeah. It's, you know-

Probably. In other words, here's what you do. Okay, I'll be a publisher for a minute. Do you do that book? And it's a mother's daughter's Mother's Day book. But that's the title. I don't want to hear a yip out. Well, people would think that's like abusive, probably. That's the fun of it. Yeah, it's the fun of it. Yeah. I have never said that, I don't think, to my children. I don't want to hear a yip out of you. Ever. Don't forget the ever part. I've thought it. I've thought it. Sure. Sure.

But... Did your dad ever have any phrases that were... Not like that, because he also knew there shouldn't be a yip out of him either. Yeah. And we'll be right back after this.

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When you brought Arnold home... Yeah, that was like... That must have gone over well. That was... Everybody thought it was like kind of like... That's just kind of a joke, right? That's just kind of like just for the weekend or that's just for like right now where you're just having a phase and...

So I think, you know, because obviously he was so different from, you know, what my family had experienced and what they knew. And it was a real different, there were two different worlds going on. Do they even know what to make of him?

No, but I'm sure Arnold liked that. He probably liked people not knowing what to make of him. But I think eventually my parents came to really love him and they didn't hear a yip out of him. And what they heard out of him was, this is my vision. These are my dreams. This is what I want to do. And as I said, my parents weren't interested in people's

That's for sure.

Daniel Berrigan, the Berrigan brothers, they were at our table. They were interested in those kinds of people. So somebody who would be, oh, you know, complaining or yipping wouldn't

be at the table. And if they wanted to, they would get pretty clearly that they shouldn't like yip. Now we're going to be yipping. Now we're going to be, this is going to be a thing. No, it is. Oh, it's a thing. It's a thing. I don't want to, I'm going to use it tonight. This is so good. I don't know where I'm going to use it, but I know I'm going to. Now, listen, when I told it to my therapist, he was like, I'm so sorry.

I know. I don't want to get out of you ever. I was like, is that bad? Was that bad? He goes, oh my God, yes. I'm like, oh, okay. Actually, that was actually good for me to hear. Actually, that's, you know, that it's okay to have needs. And I discovered that in my late 50s. Isn't it amazing when you go to therapy, as we all have, and I'm a big- Or should. Should. Yeah, no, I think it's a great thing. And you tell them something about your childhood or

Something that you grew up with as the only thing you've ever known. Yeah. And they go, oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, so it was. It was. That's bad. It was not good that my dad would pull over in the middle of a cornfield and say, get out of the car and drive away. That's like, that's not that that's not a good thing. You know, if I was crying. Sorry, dad, if you're listening. That's the way it goes.

Payback's a bitch. Kidding. Kidding. I think we should all ask our parents this kind of thing. When I do, and it's not easy, the answers are mind-blowing. Like, just once in passing, he's a huge – he's 80 now, but he's always been a huge tennis player. His whole high school, college, all of it. And I said, what did your parents think of your tennis career? And they said, oh, they never saw me play. I said, I'm sorry, what? Yeah. They never came to a game he played ever. Yeah.

So let that sink in a minute, you know, and that's kind of, I think, the norm for that generation, you know, and but think about that, you know, and put that in juxtaposition to how you went to your kids things. Every game. So you have to understand the difference that that makes in a person's life experience, in a person's

sense of themselves in a person, you know, how they feel about themselves and then therefore how they parent. 100%. Right? You know, you have, it brings, I think you have to have some empathy and

When you realize, like I think so often about how my mother grew up in a family of all boys when they never thought women could become anything. And here was my mother who was so smart and who could have been anything and was never acknowledged as such in her family and her grit and her determination and her fire and her rage just propelled her.

But she never got like what her brothers got from her parents. Right. And so like so when she was tough on me, now I can look at that and say like, wow, because she was tough on herself and her parents were tough on her. And so when I think like, wow, she didn't put a blanket over me or bring me hot tea. Well, nobody did that to her.

So how could she have done that to me? And, you know, I remember like when I said to my mother, like, I'm going to touch you.

You know, she's like, don't touch me. She's in her 80s. I'm like, no, I'm going to, you're now, you know, in the bed and I'm in charge. So I'm going to touch you and I'm going to tell you that I love you and I'm going to mother you in a way that you were never mothered because I know how hard that must have been and is and I want you to have that experience. So it's okay. And I start, you know, with their fingers and I worked my hand up, but it's,

How did she tell, and how was it for her? She just stayed still. She was in her bed and she was older. But imagine going through your whole life, not having a, nobody, like you couldn't have a yip out of you about anything, right? Nobody's like wrapping her in a blanket. Nobody's nurturing her. Nobody's even saying to her, I see you and I see what you want to do and I'm going to help you or show up for you. So,

What's needed for that, you know, the walls that have to come up and you're a woman and in a man's world and in a man's family. And so I have incredible empathy for her and what she went through. And also my own kind of curiosity about myself is like, I see that. I want to be different from that. I want to honor that.

But I want to put a blanket on my kids. I want to bring the tea to my kids. And and but I want to break that cycle. And I think we're all here to break some cycle of sorts. Right. For sure. But and that means kind of also thinking about like, what was that like for your dad that nobody came? What was that like? Because that's still in him.

One hundred percent. Yeah. I find that there's there's nothing that gives you better insight to your parents than being a parent of your own. And you look at your 12 year old or whatever age they are at the time and you remember yourself at that time and what then the decisions your parents made for and about you. Yeah. And you you look at everything that prism and it is mind blowing. Yeah. Yeah.

Mind-blowing. It is. And you have to think about, you know, the generation that people grew up in. Yes. What it was like for that specific gender at that time. And I try to say to my daughters, particularly all the time, you know, when we were watching the debates with the women candidates, I'm like, I just want you to pause this. I want you to understand this is like mind-blowing. Yeah.

This is my, you're looking at this and maybe it's not like, like for me, this is mind blowing. Really? Yeah. It's mind blowing. And if your grandmother could be here, she would be blown away. So change happens quickly. We may not realize it when we're kind of in it, but, you know, people fought back.

My mother, in her own way, fought to make it possible that a Hillary Clinton or Elizabeth Warren or Amy Klobuchar, because women who did well, made it possible for other women to do well. And certainly when I started in journalism, and I look at women today who get five months maternity leave, and I got two weeks.

I say to myself, you know, like, it's important that I did that well so that other women could come behind me and get five months. Do you know what I mean? No, absolutely. We're all paving the way in some way. And I think if we see it that way, that we're all here to pave the way so that someone else can be on that debate stage, someone else can, you know, do whatever it is they're doing. It makes your life more than about you. Yeah.

You know, because like, really, why are you here? I don't know why I'm here. But you're not here just to be about you. Well, if I have a reason, it's that. What? To make it more about me. No, you're here to maybe break the cycle in your own family. You're here to father in a different way. You know, I also say to my kids, I'm so excited about what I see happening with men.

that the men of like my, our son's generation are going to be completely different partners. Yeah, it's true. Fathers. I'm optimistic about it. I have two boys. I'm optimistic too. And you've got...

you know, three boys, two boys. Yeah. I have two boys and I have two girls, but I say all the time to both of them, how, how your future is, is going to depend on all these genders, how you treat people who identify, you know, as non gender, you're going to, how it's going to, how you're going to be, you know, to my daughters, how you're going to treat the men in your life. Yeah. Right. Men. How were you going to treat the women in your life?

And I always say to my boys, you know, like I was saying the other day when I walk out the door and they don't hold the door for me, I just stand there and wait. Oh, that's the other thing. That's the other great thing. I'm sorry to interrupt. That when you were a little girl, you had to, when your parents came to the room, you had to stand up. Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. How great is that? As a little girl all the way till they died. Girl. So you're watching TV, you're watching The Bachelor. Oh, I make your boy stand up when I walk in the room. I,

For sure. And they do, by the way. And they do. My boys stand up when you walk in the room. Every time. I'm a horrible parent. And by the way, all my boys' friends stand up when I walk in the room. All of them. Because if they don't, I go like this. Harrison. And I go up. And everybody gets up. I mean... It's funny. It makes me feel... I'm so inadequate. I'm so inadequate.

I'm so inadequate as a – it's really true. And I mean this. I'm half joking. But it's like you occupy a very specific, like, place in my boys' hearts. I mean, it's like they – like, no – like, you are –

You are it. I tweeted or not tweeted. I commented on your son's Instagram yesterday because he was like showing some picture. I'm like, come on, get out. We need help down in Los Angeles in the world. The world's falling apart. You can't be up there on the beach showing these images.

He'll do it. What? He'll do it. He's still up there, though, I think. Yeah. Okay, so I have one last thing to start, before we go. Okay. So I have, you remember the Proust questionnaire in Vanity Fair at the last page? Yes. So you do have questions, but you ask them to everyone. Yes.

I do this at the end. It's rapid fire. I call it the lowdown because it's the hackiest phrase ever. Oh, that's so cute. See, but it's not cute. I've grown up with that hacky, low-hanging fruit, lazy headline. The low fruit. Yeah. I mean, how many, like the lowdown. It's like, really? We up all night trying to think of that headline? Did you come up with this?

Are you producers? No, I came up with, I want to take back, because words can only hurt you if you don't take them back. And I'm not letting the low down hurt me anymore. I'm taking ownership of that word now. Oh, how did it hurt you? Because it's hacky. What? It's hacky. It's stupid. Okay, go. It's making fun of my name and it's not funny. Okay, go.

She's not having it. I don't want to hear what you thought of you. By the way, I'm getting the like, I'm not having it Maria Shriver look right now. It's brutal. Kobe or MJ? Well, Kobe probably right now. Right. Although I interviewed both of them and I thought MJ was incredible at Kobe's celebration of life. Amazing. Yeah. Beautiful. I was so honored to be at that. I went with Christopher and

And which is my youngest son. And I think it's really good for him to see a man like that cry about his relationship with another man. And I and I think for me also Kobe's effect on the culture.

Certainly as a woman, in terms of being a girl dad, it's huge. And in terms of being a professional male athlete who's interested in validating women athletes, no one like him. So that's why I would go like that. I cannot argue with that. See, did you wonder what I know who MJ was? Yes.

Well, I figured if I led with Kobe, you would put it together. Had I just say, what do you feel about MJ? It could be Michael Jackson. You don't know. MJ. But you're a smart woman. Okay. You figured it out. Yeah. That's what I like about you. And MJ does all the clothes at Michigan. Oh.

There's another MJ that I didn't know about. That's an MJ thing. Maybe you didn't know about that. Rolling Stones or the Beatles? That's just an easy one. Probably the Beatles. Me too. I always had a crush on Paul McCartney. Did you ever meet him? What? Yeah, I have met him a couple times. Yeah, great. Do you live up to the billing? Yeah. And I think great dad. Yeah. Great dad. Great husband. Once again, bigger than the Beatles, but-

I love that he's kind of kept going. I love really everything about Paul McCartney. Oh, here's a good one. Your phone's ringing. Yeah, it's my manager. Yeah, it's my manager. I'm a very important person. I've got a manager. Oh, yeah. It's about you. Do you have a hall pass? Do you ever have like a hall pass? Yeah, no. I know what those are and stuff like that, but no. No? No. No.

I could have a hall pass now, but I'm not in a thing. So there's no hall pass to have.

Right. So that's true. Yeah. So Cheryl, Cheryl's, I know all about that. Do you know, do you see you and my wife are so close to Cheryl? Does my wife Cheryl have a hall pass that I don't know about? I don't feel comfortable here. This is the whole point. Oh, it is. Okay. I don't know. That's not true. She looked away. I don't know. I'm a studier of body language. Maria, you know, my wife's hall pass. I don't actually. You will give it up on this podcast. No, I won't. I won't. I won't.

Oh, Jesus. I don't have one. You don't have one? No. Okay. Let's go to another question. I'm very much interested in talking about hall passes. Does any of these questions have anything to do with other than sex? Or they're all sex? Well, mostly I like sex. Yeah. Okay. Oh.

Do you have any on there? Do you remember? You write amazing books. How many books have you written now? Seven. Jesus. Seven. And eight coming up. No, I don't want to hear a yip out of you. I don't want to hear a yip out of you ever with big... Ever. Ever, ever, ever. Ever will be in double the font. Not even after I've gone and I'm in heaven. I still don't want to hear a yip out of you. Which is why you need to write the book. Okay. I'll think about it. Do you remember...

What's the worst review you've ever gotten? Well, you probably never got a better review. No, I did. Absolutely. When I was the anchor of the CBS Morning News, there was a big television critic called Tom Shales. Yeah. Hello. Yeah. And he like eviscerated me. He's like, you know, like, look at her hair, look at her teeth, look at her cheekbones. I mean, he just like...

made a mess out of me in every way, shape and form. So I don't really. No way. Oh, yeah. No, come on. Oh, yeah. Of course he did. You can look. I mean, Tom Shales, Tom Shales. He was brutal. He was really brutal.

But who remembers such things? Do you, you know, the whole thing of people like, oh, I don't read reviews. You ever met people like that? Actors, actresses, journalists. Oh, I don't, I don't, I don't read reviews. They make you feel like you're an idiot for reading them. Have you ever come across that whole notion? Yeah, but I don't believe it. I don't. Thank you. Thank you. See, this is why we're friends because we think exactly alike. It's complete hogwash. Yeah. Of course they read them. And it hurts them. I read reviews in the intermission.

Of the play I'm doing. Oh, that's... About the play. I don't think that's good. I don't think that's something you should repeat. Oh, this is easy. I know what you're going to say. Funny, smart, or hot. Pick one. About myself or someone else. About your dream person. Funny. Funny? Yeah. I thought you would have gone with smart. Funny first. Funny first. Funny first. Funny first. Wow. Yeah. He threw me a curveball. Key. Key. Key. Funny. Key. Key.

Key. Critical. Do you have a phrase that you overuse? I don't think you do, by the way. I know you pretty well. Phrase I overuse? Saying phrase. Yeah, I don't think so. Like what's your version of that? I don't want to hear a yip out of you ever. I don't have it. Maybe I'll just start using that one. It's too late. It's too late. Your kids are yipping. Yeah, they're yipping. I know your kids. They're yippers. Yeah. Patrick told me last night when I came home, don't walk in here unless you go up and take a shower and take your airport clothes off. I was like, I think that this is my house. Yeah.

So amazing. That's the whole lowdown? I mean, there's more, but I just feel like... Like you don't have that, like, who would you like to have dinner with from history? Oh, I've got the boring ones. Oh, that's boring? A little bit. Oh. I mean, how can I give you a couple of boring ones? We've got nothing but time here. What is your most treasured possession? Oh, my letters from my kids. I thought you were going to say the letters from your family. No, from my kids. Your kids. From my kids to me.

Even over that insane, like, legal pad thing from JFK. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Not even close. That's... Not even close. Look, I love your kids plenty. Yeah. But that JFK thing that's hanging in the living room is nuts. Yeah, but it's like my kids, it's like they're talking to me. How about the letter that Rose Kennedy wrote you about... That's funny. ...behaving better at the dentist. Yeah. Yeah.

Talk about not wanting to hear a yip out of me. No kidding. My dearest Maria, it has come to my attention that you were sniveling after being at the dentist. We Kennedys do not. My also favorite thing about it is, and as you know, we are known for our teeth. That's right. It's unbelievable. Yes, I put that there right above the toilet. So everybody, when they flush, will look at it and read it and think about their teeth and not having a yip out of them when they come out.

So, it's my own way of saying we're not interested in yips here. Yeah. The letter is you went to the dentist. Yeah. Apparently cried. Right. Your mother must have mentioned it. Yes. To her mom, Rose Kennedy. Right. And you get a perfectly immaculate. Yes. Type typed. Typed. Letter from Hyannis. Yes. Yes.

From my grandmother telling me that Kennedys don't cry, that my uncle who was president never had a yip come out of him. As you know, he was in poor health and never complained. Never complained. And we don't complain. And by the way, we're known for having beautiful teeth. So and if you do complain, it will have an impact on your siblings. So we don't want to do that anymore. Am I clear? Yeah.

Handwritten though. I mean, typed by hand, signed. Typed and hand signed. Yes. As a child of Jesus. End of story. I got it. I got the memo. I mean. Yeah. We'll end with this one. What is your current state of mind? Awesome. I agree. Awesome. I've known you a long time now. A long time. I don't think you've ever been...

In such like everything firing. A good place. Yeah, a good place. Really, truly. Good place in space. Good place in space. Offering great stuff to people. Enjoying your life. Yeah. Enjoying your independence. Yeah. Curious on the move. Yeah. Not tethered to the past in any way. I wrote in my Sunday paper last week that I was sitting there and I looked around and I was like, I'm actually really good. I'm okay. I'm good. My life is great.

Who would have thought? Because it's had, like everybody, times when it wasn't so great. But I feel it's really great. I feel really blessed. Thank God, every day. You've been great to be here with us, and we love you. Thank you, Rob. You betcha. Bye, honey. Letting me come on your podcast. Well, that was everything I thought it would be. It's too bad you guys can't be here to see how pretty she is. I'm always struck with, like...

Everybody knows how smart and, you know, like substantive Maria is, but she's like a beautiful hot woman. And the great thing is she would like that I said that. Like, it's okay. It's all good. Thanks for listening. There's more fun to come with Literally with me on our next episode. Bye. You have been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe. Produced and engineered by me, Devin Tory Bryant.

Executive produced by Rob Lowe for Lowe Profile. Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blairt. Talent producer, Jennifer Sampras. Please rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts. And remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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