Matthew McConaughey: Put Up A Pretty Light
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Yeah, all right. Where's Mr. Lowe?

Okay, is that okay? There's the, I got it, I got it. Stand off screen till the first we're talking to comes and sits down first. Make sure McConaughey's on set first before I come to set. I'm not leaving my trailer till McConaughey. I don't care what number he is on the call sheet. I remember that every time we went to set. He's sitting right on the truck. Make sure he's on his mark first.

Hi, everybody. It's literally with me, Rob Lowe. So this this episode is exactly why I wanted to do this podcast.

To have somebody on like Matthew McConaughey, who I know we've worked together, you know, we've seen each other around. But, you know, I have an affinity for him, but I don't really get to see him or talk to him. And he's accomplished so much in his life and his career. And he's, you know, occupies a real specific place in the zeitgeist and has, you know, done it all. And everybody listening probably has an opinion on Matthew and feels like they know him.

And nobody ever knows anybody really. And so doing a long form interview is how you get to know people. And, you know, McConaughey, he's a brand. I mean, listen, we think Matthew McConaughey, you know what you're thinking. You're thinking something. It may be Dallas Buyers Club Oscar. It may be what the fuck is those Lincoln commercials? I don't understand them. It might be that. I don't know, but it's going to be something.

And I can promise you at the end of this interview, you're going to be thinking something else. Here we go. How are you, brother? I mean, damn, you're just a fucking machine and I love it. I'm relatively doing pretty good, man. You've done these book tours before. This is my first one. I had to do this all virtually and remotely, which turned out to kind of be a blessing because I can be in four countries before noon.

Yeah, the book did well. I didn't know if I was going to get buried by election, COVID, remote. It found its line. It got above the waterline. People are digging it. We go do movies. We go on movie tours. We're usually talking about someone else's movie that we played a part in. And finally, this is something I put out that I wrote. I directed it. I edited it. I'm like, hell yeah, man. I'd love to talk about it. And

It's not getting really, it's not really getting boring because even though we'll talk about same, you and I will talk about same subjects today. I probably talked about 50 times, but it'll be completely different conversation about it. So in that way, it's not getting, it's not getting boring. So. And, and let's face it, all actors like to talk about themselves. I mean, that's why I wrote a book. I don't know about you. I was like, how can I talk about myself more? I know I'll write a book and then I'll have to. Exactly. Yeah.

You're so lucky, though, that you're doing it virtually because the travel on a book tour is like the old days of junkets when you used to go around the country doing them. Well, that's what I was originally going to do is I was going to go around the country and go to Australia and some other places and go do sort of a stand up hour storytelling act.

Oh, wow. That's great. Would have been fun, but I would have covered about what? Four percent of what I've covered and I'd have been dead dog tired and beat to hell. You know, oh, that'd be so good. I hope you do that, though. When when audiences can come back, I'd love you to do that. It's something I'm still thinking about. You know, I mean, you know what's right in it. So, look, we go do a movie.

We are doing, there's four filters from our raw expression, right? You're getting someone else's script, someone else's directing you, someone else's lensing you in the camera, someone else's editing you. So that's four filters from our original expression, right? You go write a book, man, one filter, it's the written word. But you go do like a standup or you talk like we're talking now, no filters, live, one take, it's on, boom. Didn't have to, you know, that's what's very exciting. Yeah.

Well, the other thing is, it's like, as you know, we've, we've lived our lives playing characters and in the public consciousness and, you know, you do an interview and whatever, but people can't really ever know you really, unless they know you, but you write a memoir about your life and you're authentic about it. It's, it's a great, if I just know for me, I'm always like,

If you really want to know what I'm about, these are these two books. And at the end of it, you're going to know. Will you love me, hate me, whatever, but you're going to know. How much freedom did you feel from writing and telling your story? Oh, I had a blast. I mean, writing those books, though, it's that great. I think it's the Mark Twain quote about freedom.

You know, I'm always at my happiest when having written, not writing, writing. But I loved it. And I thought your tone was really, really specific to you. And that's like, I could hear you. I could hear your voice as I read it. And I think that's really important. Oh, cool.

Well, I mean, it was what what made you at this point in your life do it? Because I remember when I talked about doing it, people were telling me not to do it. They were telling me, well,

A memoir, I mean, that's what people do on their way out. Right, right. And I'm thinking, no, no, I don't want to hear from somebody on their way out. I want to hear from somebody who's right in the thick of it. When it's fucking live. Yeah. Well, that was, that's why, you know, as I opened the book going, look, man, I was not interested in a memoir. That idea felt to me like it felt real.

Like those people. And you really weren't. And you definitely weren't interested in pronouncing it memoir. You wanted you were like, I want memoir. I wanted to make sure I felt. Yes, I like intercontinental and international. Yeah, of course. Of course. I like that. I can show you my past. Yeah, I know you are. Yeah. Got more than just an I.D.

So you didn't want to do a traditional one. So the idea of memoir was what you said those people said to you. I was like, oh, memoir. That's like, okay, I'm fading out. The sun's setting. This is that silhouette shot. Goodbye, everyone.

It's been a great run. And I was like, man, that sounds regressive. That sounds – no, no, no. I'm not ready for denouement here. And so – another French word. You hear that? Oh, I picked it up, man. I'm paying close attention. So I said –

Well, look, let's look at the last 50 and see if there's something that feels like a verb, something that feels like an approach that maybe hopefully I can come out of the book looking at it and going, oh, this is helping me go be more feel more vital for the next however many I've got going into. Yep. And then that thing happened that, you know, the more personal you get.

You start to go, oh, actually now it's more translatable to more people, maybe, you know, which I didn't think it was going to be that way. But then once I realized that, I was like, oh, well, no shit. That's like all art, right? You know, the more personal we get on something, the more people go, oh, I saw myself in that or I see myself in your story or I have a similar story. So, yeah, that's... Isn't it funny? I went through the same thing. Like I wrote a chapter in one of them about sending my kid to college and I almost didn't write it because I was like,

People do it. You know, people send their kids to college. People send their kids to war. Right. The fuck? Why are you getting so twisted up about sending your kids to college? Grow a pair, whatever. And I almost didn't write that.

thing in it. And it's been the one thing that has had the most life out of right out of all of it. Well, it was a generous, common human experience, you know, and, you know, I suppose I hear this and I'm sure you I know you've heard it. I'm willing to bet you definitely have. But there's just a disconnect when somebody is in a position like us that just to hear that

From for some people to hear that we go through similar crisis or a hardship or something where we didn't know how to do something. People like I didn't know you did, too. And you're like, yeah. You mean it was hard to send your kids off to? Yeah. And it gives them some sense of the pleasure or. Oh, well, they went through it, too. Good. OK, it's not original to me. It doesn't matter if you're a movie star, celebrity or rich and famous, whatever. And we all go go through a similar situation. I think it gives gives people some freedom to.

What was the hardest part of the book for you to write? Like the hardest subject, the hardest theme? How to land the plane so it didn't feel like a memoir. How to finish the book in that final, you know, live your legacy now. How to make that feel like a verb, not a conclusion, like I was closing the curtain. And I had to ask and go ask a lot more.

questions because the first part of the book, I step in shit all over the place. And then I figure some stuff out and I start catching a lot of green lights. I have success and relationships. I find my love. When I do well in movies, I get an Oscar. So all of a sudden, I catch a lot of these green lights, right? And it didn't mean I had any less questions. But now when I said, okay, how do I land the plane and go into the end of the book? A lot more questions came up because I

I realized, oh, I hadn't I didn't really end up at some destination here, which is also how I see life. I didn't end up like, ah, ta-da. See, now I figured out. Thank you very much. And I'll let you know. But wait a minute. You are one of the things that's amazing about your book and that I learned from you in the book is you very early on had a plan and lists of things you wanted to accomplish. Right.

And you got to those destinations. I mean, it's kind of incredible. Yeah, that surprised the hell out of me. I found that note of that list that I wrote in, I think, 1992 and looked at them. And I said, geez, there's your 10 goals. I remember writing it, but I never looked at it again. And I said, you've done them. How the hell? And you never I never looked back and saw that note. I never carried that with me. I remember the night I wrote it. I wrote it in my top bunk at the Delta Delta Delta fraternity house. I just smoked a bowl.

And wrote those 10 goals? No, I find that so hard to believe. Oh, it's back in 92, you know, the wild years. So I write it down. I don't remember. I never looked at it again. I forgot what I wrote down. And then I find out however many years later, no, you didn't forget what you wrote down. You never looked at it again, but obviously you didn't forget because you pulled them off. I got a question for you. Yeah, yeah.

How have you grown and evolved so gracefully? One, you're an ageless wonder. Number two, you're still relative. You still have a great attitude. You still have... And, you know, you've gone from...

You know, in the 80s, they go to the number one guy on list to green light a movie. You're not that anymore, but you're still working. You're doing things. You've got a life. You've got a family. You've got a smile on your face over there. You look like you still did at 18. I mean...

All over. You got some things going on. And my hunch is because you look make it look like you don't you kind of like you kind of let your stuff slide. You got a great sense of humor. You don't take things to seem to take things too seriously. But I know it ain't there ain't no way it's by accident. What's your what's your what's your secret sauce? Yeah, you're nice to say that. I appreciate that, man. Well, I think a lot of it is attitude. And I think we share that. You know, you're from Texas. I'm from Ohio.

Uh, you know, we, we had a dream. We knew what we wanted to do. Um, like there aren't a lot of options for me. I got to do this or a permutation of this because I wanted to do this. I didn't want to be anything else. So, um, I got a lot of ambition and a lot of drive still. Yep. Um, and yeah,

And the other thing is, is I, at least for me, I like doing new stuff. That's why I was so happy to see you write the book. And I was so excited to read it because you don't have to write a book. You clearly did it because you've had a passion to do it. And, you know, there's plenty of people who are where you are in life that would never occur to them to do it, nor would they want to, nor could they. Right. And I think that's really, it's that kind of chance taking. It's not a chance, but you know what I mean? It's like something...

unexpected. And, and I think we share that. And that's a thing. I, I, I kind of realize that the, the world changes every day and what was acceptable or, or what was, um, sounded like a good plan yesterday may not be today. Um, and, and then the other thing is for me is expectations. I really try to not have them. Um, you know, I, I try to, you know, be like,

You know, for you, you know, you win an Oscar. That's the top of the mountain in acting. But you can't have an expectation, I'm assuming, of what that end actually gives you or is for you. Because at the end of the day, it's going to be something totally unexpected that you never saw coming. So you don't want to get, you don't want to wake up and go like Peggy Lee, is that all there is? So I try to really manage my expectations, whether it's for good things and bad things. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes total sense. And I think, you know, and I hear that.

And sometimes some people, if we manage our expectations or don't have a clear-cut high-end expectation for the outcome, sometimes some people get lazy and apathetic. But yet what you're saying is you're still grinding. You're choosing the experience, the process, going, I've got to get a buzz here in life. I want to take this certain risk. And it's not for the result of it because, hey, I'm dancing through the rhyme. But –

That's that's I'm with you. I'm working on a theory now called chasing yet that, hey, we never have those arrivals. If we can get off of this result oriented stuff and just stay in the process to do things and take the intelligent risk that we take and go through life trying to pull stuff off, that's as good as it gets. And I think that's what you're saying is your expectations, because.

You know, you seem to be, you've done it, you've done it, you seem to do it very gracefully. You seem to have a certain, it seems like it's whimsical. I know it's not. You just explained reasons why it's not. But that's a good, that's a really good point to say, hey, manage your expectations. And even if it doesn't come out to what you maybe even kind of hoped it would, is that really why you did it anyway?

You know? Yeah, for sure. And the other part of it is just on a practical thing. The business that you and I grew up in is completely changed. I don't need to tell you. You're right in the thick of it. It literally is, you know, you wake up one day and your movie you did for Warner Brothers is going to be on television. Nobody told you. I mean, it's like we live in a completely different world. So what it means to be anything in this business is not what it meant even a year ago.

So you, um, writer, writer, actor, TV star, movie star, singer, tourer, standup comic. It's all out the window. It's all different. And that's really empowering for me. I'm excited by that. I don't get, I don't get into a fear place. I'm like, there you go. There's another one of your secret sauces right there. You got all that unknown and you're sitting there saying I'm empowered by that. That excites me. That turns me on. There you go.

That's that's that's good value across the board for anyone to take into life right there. I hear you. I don't know either. And I'm a little excited, too, because I'm really not going to do anything to fight to change it. Like my my my road is not to go. No, I'm going to fight for cinema. I'm going to fight for keeping movies in the theaters. That's just not my fight. I understand those who want that fight. But because I'm not the guy that's going to change that and go.

That's what I want to go to the mat for. I'm like, what will happen will happen. So let's rock and roll. Let's look for some opportunities here. How soon can we look for opportunities here in this world? The world's still going to want content.

You know, that more than ever content, they're still going to where are they going to digest it? Different places than they used to. Does the theater ever really come back? That communal thing doesn't matter. You know, are we just telling stories? There's such a easy to tell stories. I was saying earlier, all the places I've been remotely on a book tour, four countries in four hours. Well, there's some access. It's kind of exciting. What can we do with that? This is not us in person, but this is pretty damn good, man.

Look at this technology. We're sitting here hanging out. I'm in my office. You're in your living room. And I didn't go to Santa Barbara. You didn't come to Austin. I'm going to get up from here and go have lunch with my kids live 30 seconds after we say goodbye. I didn't have to take the flight. I didn't have to go through the green room. I didn't have to do the hair and makeup wardrobe and then come over and sit down and prep and talk and sit down and make sure the lighting was all right. It's something kind of awesome about it, you know?

It's true. And that's the you know, and we need to celebrate and remember that when the other things that we used to love maybe aren't there anymore. You know, and yeah, I think it's that's interesting that it's not a hill you want to die on. You know, we don't want to end up being the what's the gif of the old man yelling at the cloud cinema used to be this. And I remember and you can't. We it's you do that. That's a memoir.

Right. Right. That's the right. Now it's over. So I'm saying goodbye. I'm the last bastion. No, I'm not interested in that either. I hear you. The other thing I was struck with in your book is that is your dad is such a great character, literally an actual character. Yeah. And and I want to go out the way he went out, bro. Right. I can call me a shot, man.

He literally called his literal shot. Called his shot. So what would he say to you? Did you ever hear him call his shot? Oh, yeah. Hell yeah.

Hey, you know, we're out playing golf. We're hanging around and something comes up and he's winning. He just go in the hole and what everything's happened. Way to go. And everything's about geez, oh man, pop, you got it all figured out. And then the conversation turns over to he and mom and you know, what's going on? He goes, boys, when I leave this place, I'm going to be making love to your mother. He would say, that's it, boys. Let me just tell you something. When I get down out of here, I'm going to be making love to your mother. And damn if he didn't.

6.30 in the morning on a Monday morning, wakes up frisky, hear my mom make love as soon as he finishes. Heart fibrillation, heart attack on top of it. And then, this isn't in the book, but my mom tells it, calls the paramedics. We're living on this little sort of cul-de-sac in this little neighborhood in southwest Houston. All the neighbors have come out at 7 a.m. now. You know, there's a paramedic ambulance across the street in the McConaughey's driveway.

They're rolling him out on the gurney. My mom's still in her 90. They've got a sheet over him, right? That would be the nice thing to do, right? Guess who's pulling the sheet off going, no, you're not going to cover him up. I want the world to see why he was known as Big Jim. Come on. You can't. My mother. And neighbors are all out there going, oh, my God. Oh, geez. Oh, God. And mom's already still on the charge of like, he did it. He did it. This is how he said he was going to go.

That's unbelievable. It's so genius. Yeah. It's so, the only other person I ever heard did that, they used to say that Nelson Rockefeller went out that way. Did you ever know that one? I did not know that.

Yeah. They say now, by the way, Nelson Rockefeller, we'll talk about a dated reference. So if you do the math of Nelson Rockefeller's death versus my age, that shows you what a fuck up I was, that I was paying attention to Nelson Rockefeller dying. His secretary, I think it was. Now, I don't want to get sued by the Rockefeller estate. I know that's coming now. We represent the Rockefeller estate and you have slandered him on your podcast. But yeah. But I remember as a kid thinking that's a cool way to go out.

Yeah, the coolest. It's the definition of cool. By the way, what is your golf handicap these days? 25. Not a 25. I don't believe it for a minute. Yeah, I am. Remember, I used to be a four in high school. I know. That's why I'm asking. I play. We have an annual event for our fundraiser. I play once a year. Why? I've chosen not to make the time. I mean, you know, I tried a few years ago to go back and say, I'm going to get my golf game back. Mm-hmm.

And, you know, starts that. Why am I so excited? Well, I shot myself a little 39 on the front. Oh, I may still have it. I may still have it. Yep. 49 on the back. Gosh, damn it. Oh, yeah. That got me back. I tried it and then I started grinding again. And I noticed how much time it was taking from my life because I'm down there. Oh, that's right. I forget you have the kids at that age. I mean, I'm 12, 10 and 8.

No, no, forget I even asked. The reason I asked is I gave golf up 100%.

during my kids and then when they moved out of the house i went back to golf okay i didn't swing a club for i didn't swing a club for uh 22 years okay well that's basically you're in the middle of that's the season i'm in i'm in the no golf yeah yeah that's right you are you're in the you're in the definitely in the no golf season good good on you papa mcconaughey and but but here's the one thing though can i just tell you this yeah please put a golf club in their hands early i didn't

And that's my one little piece of advice. It makes a huge – my son now has come to it on his own at 23 into 25. But he's like, Dad, why did we not play when I was younger? Well, we tried it with the eldest. And he went out and took it up and loved it for a few months. The season changed. A new sport came to town, blah, blah, blah. And he switched. But he's – I got to remember that, actually, because the other two, we haven't put a golf club in their hand.

But it is a great game. You just screw around with them. Yeah. Just hit some stuff around the back lot. And when it's such a great like legacy, because whenever I'm on a golf course, I'm thinking about my grandfather or thinking about my father.

You know, and then I'm giving it to my son. And it's just a really, you know, there's so little of that left in our culture. Well, I remember when I was 18 years old, you know, I grew up, my dad played for the Green Bay Packers. I'm living in Texas, football's king. I get to the ninth grade. I've now, you know,

Barely got peach fuzz over my pecker. So all of a sudden I'm not running as fast nor as big as I used to be. Now with these other kids, I'm going to school, football team, these guys got beards, right? And so I'm going like, well, I used to be the guy that was hard to tackle. Now I'm not the biggest guy, but I'm also not near the fastest. I don't think I want to play football anymore, but how am I going to tell my dad? And I remember calling him back from my room and I was very nervous about telling him I wanted to go play golf.

And when I told him I wanted to play golf, he goes, oh, God damn it. Great idea, son. And I was like, what? I thought you were going to be upset. He goes, no. I go, why? He goes, let me ask you a question. I said, what? He goes, do you know it's me coming to your room before I get to your room? And I go, yes, sir, I do. He goes, how do you know? I go, I hear you. He goes, what do you hear? I go, I hear this.

He goes, yeah, I got a four inch plate back here, six screws over here, another stitch. And he went there and he's like, play golf, man. You can do it till you go down. It was, he told me that at whatever I was 14, 15 years old. I, by the way, my, my producer before you got on was like,

Make sure it's a juicy interview. And I was like, McConaughey, I'm just going to talk shit because we've known each other for so long and he's such a great dude. But just for the record, we have our poll quote. Matthew only had peach fuzz until he was 19. I've done my juicy. There it is. I mean, by the way. And the most tears I've ever had on my chest is 16. Same. Hold that thought. We'll be right back.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. By the way, when you asked how do I keep it going, like I also like, what's the word? It's not, I got to think of the right word here. It's grinding. You said grinding and it is. It's grinding and like thinking about things. The fact that you coined the reconnaissance. I'd heard it and thought it was genius, but I never knew that you coined it.

Yeah. And like, that's a Rob move for sure. I was like, I doff my hat to you, sir. That's a really, really good one. So did you, it was in Park City at Sundance? Yeah, Sundance. Tell that story because it's so good. Yeah, so we're at Sundance and-

I'm doing these interviews and people are saying, man, you've really been on quite a run. You've got Mud, I think Dallas Byers clothes coming up. But I'd done a few that had really kind of gotten there above the water and was getting recognized for some roles. It's like, man, you're really on a run here. You did this and this and this and this. And I was thinking, I was like, yeah, in my head, I went like musically. I was like, yeah, I'm putting together an album. I'm putting together a really nice album of music. But the album needs a title. It needs an album title.

And in the next interview, I went and sat down with, and I've talked to the guy since, the guy with MTV. I said, I'm going to try it right here. But I knew I couldn't say, I want to call it the McConaughey sign. They'd be like, what are you talking, you narcissistic, blah, blah, blah. So I said-

The guy starts going, hey, you know, you've really been on a run. And I was like, yeah, you know what? I was talking to this morning. I was talking about the same thing. He actually coined it. The guy goes, oh, really? He goes, yeah. I go, yeah, he called it the reconnaissance. The guy goes, reconnaissance?

That's great. That's great. Man, that might stick. I was like, right? He goes, what do you think about it? I was like, kind of sounds fun to say, kind of rolls off the tongue. He's in connoissance. I don't know. Kind of fun. Kind of cool. Sounds lyrical. He goes, wow. KG, brilliant bastard, you.

It's so good. But it was a reconnaissance. It is a reconnaissance. We're living in the reconnaissance. We are living in it. It's happening right now. It's a verb. It's just the latest thing. It's a verb. Do you have fond memories of doing contact? I do. So for those listeners, Matthew is great in contact with my beloved, beloved, beloved, amazing Jodie Foster. Yeah.

And directed by Bob Zemeckis. You know what's insane about that movie? I have two second part in it I came in to do for fun. And the science of that movie, like, holds up big time. Yeah. Like, it's intense, the science of it. Yeah, it is. That and, you know, I've got a lot of people.

Now, I'm hearing a lot about that movie. You know, you hear people, you're in different places in the world, different demographics, like different shows you're in, different times in your life. Boy, Contact and Interstellar are coming at me from the outside world a lot now. A whole lot. Well, Interstellar is a whole other subject I want to get to in a second. But you're right. I wonder why both those movies, obviously, are thematically similar. Yeah, I don't know. People thinking about, you know.

Uh...

after COVID year thinking about what is it, you know, what's it like, where, where are we going to go? How do we get off this earth? Some people I'm sure thinking that, right. You know, there's been an ongoing conversation and battle with like the existence of belief, God and science, which is the reason why I love doing contact and wanted to step into the, the, the believers role. Yep. Yeah. And then I met with, you know, I haven't kept up much with Bob Z. Yeah.

I've run into him quite a few times. He's still, you know, Mr. He's Bob Z. Bob Z, man. Yeah, it works better as Bob Z than Bob Zemeckis. Bob Z. Oh, by the way, only Bob Z. I think the one scene, the sort of big scene that we're all in is that conference table scene. Yeah. And where I have one of my favorite lines I've ever said as an actor is, we don't even know if these aliens believe in God. One of my favorite. That's a great line. Isn't it? Yes. Isn't that a great line?

I was playing like a version of Ralph Reed, the conservative coalition guy. Yes. His whole raison d'etre. See, I'm competing with you on the French stuff now. Yes. Was do these aliens believe in God? But we shot that scene for like four days. It was a long scene. Four days. Yeah. And I lost my voice for two of them.

And they had to shoot a steroid into my throat. And the first two days, I don't even know if you remember this, when it came to, we obviously didn't do my coverage. We did everybody else. And I would just tap my pencil for my lines. Never said a word. But that was like Angela Bassett and Tom Skerritt and James Woods and you. And I mean, like it was murderer's row. God, it was fun. Yes. You know, that's the first time that I'd worked with somebody like Bob Z who's choreographing camera moves that

That that was the first time I'd ever been like, OK, and you'll be here. You say that half of the line. And then on this note, you then step to this mark. And so it was a whole new dance for me to work with Bob Z because I was now working with the production, working with the camera, was working with cranes, working with different marks like I'd never done before. It was a whole new discipline for me to learn.

I think it's a great discipline. I take a lot of pride in it. And as I know you do, too. You must run up against actors who are like, I'm going to do what I want to do. And the camera's there to record me. But I think that's kind of self-defeating. Well, I've been guilty of that myself.

uh as well i mean i get that it's a uh because i gotta do i gotta do what's gonna be true for my my man but i don't want to i don't want to no it's finding it's it's finding the the true for your man you can't do what's not true for you for sure that's job one i mean that goes without saying but finding a way to i once worked with a director he was the guy who shot backdraft yeah

And the abyss. Can you imagine? Yes. He shot a movie underwater and a movie about fire. So he knows the way. And he kept wanting me to open a blind on a certain thing. And I realized he just wanted me to open the blind because the shot was going to be bitching. Right. And look fucking great. I was like, you know what? Hell, it's as good a motivation as any. I'll do that. I'll tell you a story, though, about where that can go wrong. Days Confused. There was a part. There was an actor.

who Rick would kind of gather around and go talk. So what do y'all, what would y'all be doing? You know? And this actor said, well, I wouldn't be hanging with this group here where you're shooting the scene. I'm actually going to be over with my girlfriend playing guitar and reading poetry. And Rick Linger was like, great, but can you do that here with the group? Cause this is where I have the, we're lit and where the camera's set up and everything. And the actor goes, no, I can't. I'll be, I'm going over there. And Rick was like, okay.

But you know, I don't have time to go set up and shoot and light that scene over there to cover you. He's like, well, that's what my man would do. Well, the guy ended up writing himself out of the movie. So if at least go, can you do what you need to do where the light is? If you are on one of those tracks of I have to do is true of my men, make sure you do it where the light is, please. Because you will. You don't need to tell me that I'm like I'm like a moth to flame. I tell the DPs, I go, you put up a pretty light. I'm going to go fucking stand right in front of it.

Like that is number one. Can y'all quote that? That's it. You put up a pretty light. I'm going to fucking stand right in front of it. The Rob Lowe show. I love it. This is part of his grace of getting older. This is part of it. Find the pretty light and go stand right in front of it. Rob Lowe. Yes. Love it. By the way, it takes us. It takes a certain sort of narcissistic courage. I love it. I can love it.

And the thing is, there's a whole lot of people that feel the same way, but just couldn't say it as poetically as you just did. That's what I'm saying. You got to be able to own it, right? You got to own your shit, man. You know?

Oh, now, is it true that you were in contention? And whenever I hear this, I know what we all know what that's like. It means it may be true. Maybe it isn't for Titanic. So I went and read for Titanic with Kate Winslet. And it was not only auditions. It was like they filmed it. So it was like into screen test time. And I left there. Did Jim did Jim shoot it handheld? Did Jim shoot it himself, Cameron?

I don't know. He had to have, right? I think so. I don't remember. He did Jim...

Because I only got nods from Jim, but from the producers and Kate and everything, after we left, it was one of those ones where they followed me. And when we got outside, they were like, that went great. I mean, kind of like hugs. I really thought it was going to happen. Did not. So did not. I still, because I asked Cameron about this because the sort of gossip over years that I had heard

and which she'd written about me was that I had the role of Titanic and turned it down.

Oh, no. Not factual. I did not get offered that role because I've always said I was like, for a while, I was thinking like, who was my, I got to find that agent. They're in trouble. No way. If I got that, well, I did never get the offer. I did not ever get the offer. And Jim finally confirmed that. But he either got someone, he either malaprop something or someone took something he said and that ran for a while. And I had to answer that question. I never got offered that as far as I know. I'm telling you, I did go have a good screen test, thought I had the role, but did not get the role.

So, yeah, I was in contention. It could have been a different movie. You could have been that. And I screen tested for the Billy Zane bad guy part. Okay. And Jim shot that. I'll never forget. He handheld shot it himself. Okay. Neither one of us made the cut. But we were in the run. I know. We were in the run. We could have been contenders, buddy. Could have happened. Could have happened for us. Love it.

Um, what I also need to ask you about, I'm doing a deep dive on the career here, bro. And you've got such a good one. It's, it's so fun to go back and, and you never know, like you said, people talk to you about movies and TV shows and you, it's, it's dependent on the time you're living in the demographic, what the age of the person is, whatever, what their tastes are. And I find it always so fascinating to, to see what people are going to come up with frailty, frailty. Yeah.

Boy, you pulled one deep in that. Out of the archives, sir. I told you it was coming deep out of the archives. Bill Patmight, who was my best friend. You and Bill were best friends? Best friends. Oh, I didn't know that. Well, God bless Bill, man. I know. God. He was like, oh, God, buddy, you got to see. God, I got Matthew McConaughey to do my movie. Yeah. Yeah.

He was- Wild Bill. That's a really- Wild Bill. Frailty is a really good movie. Yeah. Really gnarly, really intense. Brent Hanley wrote it. Still friends with Brent Hanley, who's the writer of that. Yep. Yeah. Really, really good movie. And then, of course, how was your experience on Magic Mike? I loved Magic Mike. I did, too. I mean, Magic Mike was-

Look, Steven Soderbergh calls. He and Steven Soderbergh hadn't called Matthew McConaughey to be on the move before. I'm like, oh, wow, great.

And then I remember getting on the off the phone with him when he says, hey, I got this script coming to this guy, Dallas. He runs a strip club, Mel Strippers, man. And he's telling me, I was like, oh, this sounds carny. And he's like, oh, it's real carny. I was like, OK, before we get off the phone, give me one launchpad line just because I'm not going to get that script is still two days away from me getting. I said, don't leave me with 48 hours in my imagination to run into what this character is without you giving me just like one log line to think about.

That's so smart. And so he sits there and quietly, and he goes, his character's name is Dallas, right? He goes, well, you know, one thing about Dallas is he's pretty connected to the UFOs, man. So in saying that, you talk about a launch pad line, I'm going, oh, he just took, he's opening up saying the roof is off. Huh.

So I'm like, here we go. So I started studying like, this guy's a capitalist. I started going on on the days of set, running the production like I was running my show. I'm calling, calling, you know, the new dance rover going to say pitching scenes that we never even shot. Like, here's what you do. It's about getting money in our pockets.

I want you to write down what kind of car every woman pulled up in. And if they were the ones who had a driver, I want to know if they're paying you in 20s or Ulysses S. Grant's or Benji Franklin's or Black Label American Express. I want to know who's getting the Mercedes and the Black Label American Express. I'm going to have on my main man Channing Tatum is going to be zeroing in on them because what we need to do is get them in the back room after when they pull out the big bucks for the private dance. And that's how we get more money in my pocket.

So it was all these things. It was just super fun. And I don't know if you ever worked with Steven before, but he, he, you go to set and you better just start doing what your character would do because you're sitting around. You and I are talking over there, talking like this. We look down. Steven's not giving us any direction about where the scene is. The AD hadn't told us where to go. Exactly. But all of a sudden you look over and tracks being laid. And all of a sudden there's a camera. And all of a sudden you look over and Steven's head pops up from behind the camera and goes,

Which means, do it. Do the scene. I got that same phone call from Steven for Behind the Candelabra. And he was like, so it's... And I've been following the movie because I love Michael Douglas and I love Matt Damon. And they're playing Liberace and his boy toy boyfriend. I'm like, I am so down for this movie. I can't fucking wait to see it. And then they called me to be in it. But there was... I was like, well, what's this character? Again, like you did. I was like...

Because he's a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon, a B grade, low rent, Beverly Hills plastic surgeon. And I immediately was like, oh, so he looks like every guy at the Laker game that has good seats, but not great seats. And that was my way in because I so know that. You were great. Yes. That's so true. And isn't it something a little...

Just a little context of a character. That guy. Now, he's not the great seat. He's the good seat. There's a whole world. You could write an encyclopedia on that guy and that one line he said. And that's what I call a launchpad line where you go, oh, there's a book on this character. That tells you so much.

About somebody. It looks like everybody at the leg game with not the great seats, but the good seats. It's perfect. Yeah. And there you go. Yeah. You know how that guy wakes up in the morning. You know how he takes a whiz. You know what he drinks at night. You know where he's having lunch. You know all of it. Yep. So here's my issue, though. Tell me if you think like this, too. Because you also like, I also love that you like to pop in.

Like on Wolf of Wall Street, where you just pop in. It's like you come out of the fucking bullpen, throw fucking 106 mile an hour heater, strike out the side, doff your cap and return. I love that. I love that shit. But you also are like, okay, I got all these great hitters. I got to strike out the side here, man. I don't want to get blown off the field here. Because I definitely am competitive that way. And I'm thinking, okay, so I got...

Michael Douglas, who's one of the great movie TV actors, whoever lived Matt, who's as good as anybody who's ever been can play everything under the fucking sun. They're playing larger than life characters. I don't want to get worked over by these guys. And so I came up with this really insane makeup and hair idea. And I called Steve and I said, Hey, just tone wise, like what's the sort of like ceiling here?

because I have kind of a big idea. And he was like, oh, the bigger the better. I was like, fantastic. So I do the crazy face that I did. And then I was thinking, uh-oh, I'm going to look like Brooke Shields. Like, because I look like her anyway. So you can only imagine with the smooth face and the ponytail, it's like, I'm going to look very Faye. And they're playing Faye. So I don't want to do that. So

so what do I do? So I gave him the voice of the guy from the men's, from a men's warehouse. Yeah. Men's warehouse. You're going to like the way you look. So I figured if I, if I, do you know what I mean? If I do, cause they're doing that. So you're going to like the way you look.

Yes. Yes. Oh, beautiful. Beautiful. That's the way we're that's the way we think. Am I right? That well, there you go. That's it. And that's that's comedy genius. And it was still a real person. And, you know, and there you go. And Stephen, again, told you the same thing. No, the roof's off. Come on. You know, you know, when I worked like with you're talking about Scorsese on Wolf of Wall Street.

Yeah, man, I'm stepping into a well-oiled machine. Scorsese and DiCaprio have worked together many times. They've already been in production. Can I just stop you right there? Because this is what you're describing. That is a freight train ripping down the tracks. And if you try to jump that in the wrong way, it'll rip your fucking arm off. Yeah. So I'm there. You know...

If you I'll write, I'll write. I always rewrite and add on to all my scenes because I'm always like, well, what if the scene just went on and on and on? What if it was on for an hour? You know, know your monologue and it'll expose some things. Most of it I never end up using. Some of it I use. It's good. Some of it's not. So I get to talk about launchpad lines. That character had a launchpad line. I mean, a line that I read in the original script that made me go, who the fuck is that? Who really believes that? And it was this.

Leonardo DiCaprio's character asked mine, hey, what's the secret? What's the secret to the stockbroker thing? And my guy tells him cocaine and hookers.

And I went, who is that guy? Now, what if that's not an attitude? What if this guy really believes that? Whoa. Now there's a book on that guy who's like serious. So then I go off and start thinking about, you know, let's exaggerate how many times you jack off a day, all this rookie numbers. Then I start talking to these other people that had done those trades in that day. And all of them, when you'd say like, so were you on the up and up that I'll be like,

Yeah. And you're like, oh, this is a whole scam going here. It's a Fugazi, Fugizi. It's all a mirage they're selling. So I just start saying all this stuff. So now I then, I don't know if you've ever done this, but you write something out and you add to a scene. If you pitch it,

You better not be pitching it, basically. Sometimes it's best to just get in the scene and do it and don't even tell anyone you want to do it. But sometimes, and this time I'm with Scorsese, I'm like, I think I got to at least run it by him. But I know you better nail it when you're pitching it because if you don't nail it in the pitch, the answer is no. Yep.

Yep. So I get in behind the monitor and I go through this thing that I made the scene about two to three times longer than it was originally scripted. And I ripped through it. I knew I'd nailed it. And he's just sitting there just laughing. He loves funny. And he's just laughing. And he's over. He goes, I love it. He goes, did you say the thing about the thing? And I go, yeah. And he goes, did you say the other thing about the other thing? Yeah. He goes, great. Then do that. So we get in there on the day and I just go rip it. We work it. We got it. Five takes. We're set.

I'm banging on my chest before the take because I'm partially nervous about stepping into this freight train. So beat on your chest, gets my voice down low. I'm nervous. My voice is a little high. Going to lower my voice. I want to get in the rhythm of my character in this scene. And I also am taking some enjoyment in the entire crew going, what the fuck's a weird guy doing? What's McConaughey doing? I wanted to, I was putting myself on an island, right? To go like, what the fuck is this?

the fuck is he doing? I needed to feel like, okay, you got to dig your way out of this, right? I wanted to be like an underdog. So Ben, we do the scene, got it.

We finished the scene because every time I started the scene, I'd stop, beat my chest and start the scene. Leonardo goes, hang on a second, Marty. He goes, what's that thing you're doing before? And I told him what I just told you. He goes, what if you do that in the scene? Bam. Next take, did it, threw it in the scene, started it off, got through the scene, put it off, book into the scene with it. And there it was. And then Leo took it and actually used it later in the film. It was great. So it was super fun. And the way you, you know, you work with people that,

I'd stole the Fugazi Fugazi thing from Leonardo. He had said that word a couple of days before. I was like, what is that? And he explained it. And then he was like, yeah, it's a Fugazi. It's Fugazi. And I had that play on words. So,

That was him. A lot of that was his idea. And then you have Marty who's loving humor and laughter and saying, you can say anything you want. Just make sure you said the thing about the thing. And, you know, that's how that went down. That was super fun because it is highly intimidating to step in for those one day roles. Oh, it's brutal. Nothing more brutal. And you crushed it. And the thing I love about it, too, is is the graciousness of Leo. Yep. Like he's like.

He's like, he wants you to win. Yep. That's another thing. Not everybody. I've worked with people that didn't want me to win. I've worked with people that you can see them going, oh, this guy's bringing the goods. I want to undercut him a little bit. I got to bring him down. And...

You know, but fortunately, I've worked with more people, a lot more people. And Leonardo, one of them who was like, oh, no, this is great. This is cool. Yes. I'm going to see over here and be the guy that's listening, going, uh-huh, uh-huh. Show me that and was feeding me ideas. And I got to say, that's how I learned to work in Days Confused. That was three lines, character Wooderson in Days Confused that turned into three weeks work. Why? Because the director, Richard Linkletter, kept inviting me back and every one of those other actors.

Cole Hauser, Affleck, London, Parker Posey, all those actors would just throw me stuff. I don't know. What do you think, Wooderson? In the middle of scenes, just lob me stuff. So they were writing me in. You know, they went to they went to.

And Richard Linklater said, I know we're supposed to go get Aerosmith concerts at the end of days and so-and-so's car, but we like Wooderson. Can we go? You think Wooderson would take us? Can we go to go get Aerosmith tickets and Wooderson's car? Rick comes to me. Hey, I think. Yeah, I love that. You were you were a local hire, right, as they call it. Yeah.

See, so if for people listening in, like when you make a movie in a location, like you go to, you don't make it in Hollywood, make it in Dallas, you make it in Chicago, whatever. To save money, you hire the local actors, local hires, right? You don't bring the hitter. And suppose, you know, you're at the mercy of what the local talent is. And I love when local hires become big stars. I did a movie. It wasn't a very good movie years ago, and we shot it in Chicago and.

We had this three line part like you're talking about. And we found this kid, John Cusack, and he was funny as shit. He had three lines and we kept throwing him stuff every single day.

Because he just was crushing. And his part became, you know, probably like a fourth lead in the movie. Wow. And then the next thing you know, he's like, I'm going to leave Chicago. And, you know, it's, but I love when that stuff goes on. Bravo. Yeah. Yeah. There's room, you know, a great thing about what we do in the arts is there's room for everyone to win a blue ribbon. You know what I mean? There's, there's room for every character, even the person that has one line to believe in.

That the whole movie is about them. It's kind of what's great about what we do. And everybody, every small part, you want them to take that ownership to go, no, this is movies about. And haven't you seen people with one line?

steal the movie like or one scene I'm thinking of Apocalypse Now J.D. Spradlin's got one scene he's like he's like he gives the speech about there's a conflict in every human heart conflicts of darkness and you know where they're eating the crazy shrimp heads yeah in Apocalypse there's one scene it's all you remember there's a great moment in Inglourious Bastards where Eli Roth is coming out and he's going to beat this Nazi to death with a baseball bat and

And he looks down at the Nazi and he goes, ah, you got a medal on your fucking thing. What's that for? Killing Jews? And the guy looks up and he says, Valor. And he just, that actor destroys. Yeah.

With not just with one word. Right. Well, you see, and you also see like, what is that? Bridget, is it Bridget Spies? What's the Spielberg Tom Hanks? Yeah. Bridget Spies. Oh, that movie is amazing. Well, the guy, Hank, the little kid in the hallway that Hank sits down with on the bench. Yeah. And has that little conversation with. I come out of that movie going,

I want to see the movie about those two. I want to see a whole movie based on those two in that scene and what that relationship could be. So, yeah, sometimes it's a line. Sometimes it's one scene that you go, that could be a movie. You go do, you know, Tropic Thunder. Ben, I think Stiller's still talking with Cruise about, they came out of it going, yeah, go make a movie on that character that he played. You know? That movie's amazing. That movie is amazing.

Amazing. It's one of those where you can turn it on no matter where it is in the movie. It's worth and fun watching from there until it's over, anytime it's on.

I had Downey came to visit me. You know, Downey and I know each other since sixth grade. We were in sixth grade history together. And he'd come up to visit and he was telling me about Tropic Thunder. I didn't know anything about it. And he was like, he gave me a preview of the character. Like he did the whole thing for me in my backyard. Yeah. And my sons at that point were like maybe 14 or 15.

And they didn't really know who Daniel was. They didn't know anything. But they were riveted by just even the backyard version of that character, which might go down as one of the greatest performances. This is genius. Genius. Yeah. Amazing. So good, man. So good. And we'll be right back after this.

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How was that in the 80s? Talk to me about the 80s, man. Talk to me about y'all rolling in the 80s, man. I'm in Long Beach High School watching everything. I'm watching, you know, you were my go-to guy as an actor to watch. I loved the subject matter, the stories. I was thinking about the world you were in and, you know, St. Elmo's and all that. I was watching. I was fun. Talk to me about the 80s, man. Thank you, man.

It is funny. Pitt was telling me once, he's like, I packed up my car in Missouri, but the fruit, but, but before I left, I watched St. Elmo's fire. And I was like, ah, that's cool. I like that. Yes. Um, well, it, it was such a great time. It was, it was a great time, but also the, the, the movie business hadn't totally pivoted to really an unadulterated celebration of youth. Um,

So like, there were still tons of adult movies and movies like St. Elmo's Fire were still considered other. Okay. Do you mean they were, there was like, there was Terms of Endearment. Right. And then there was St. Elmo's Fire. Okay. Gotcha. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, 100%. So we were still living in that. There was The Big Chill. Yes. And then there was, so we were always like, we were like in the,

If the big show was a network television show, we were in the CW. Yes. Is what it... Yeah. Is sort of what it felt like, right? A little bit? Yes. But...

So you didn't really have that sense of we've made it like we're movie stars because we weren't in those movies yet. Okay. That's what was really kind of interesting. Those movies are also doing well, right? Oh, they're crushing. Yeah. And you're going out and, you know, there's a group of you. You find you. We love to come see you and spend time with you in these different worlds. You're older for me. High school aspirations of cool and things like that and affluence. Yeah.

relationships, you know, different than the John Hughes high school experience. They were, you know, they were, they were, they were, no, you were independent. You were out, you were into the world. You had ambitions, you had problems, you had relationships, you had friendships, you broke, broken friendships, feelings were hurt, you know, stories of, you know, you and-

And what's love, what's not, what's affairs, what have you. I loved all this. The subject matter is juicy, great stuff. But so you're saying those are coming out and that's still CW though. So when's this transition happen where all of a sudden like you go, or do you? No, you know what? It was about when I did About Last Night. Yeah. Which-

Which to me is so good in an end, you know, it's a David Mamet, it's a David Mamet script. Put the headphones on, put the head for smooth, but they won't put the head. You remember the headphones move. I like that. Buddy, I stole, I used that one. I love it. The headphones move worked back in the day. That's great. But that felt like the transition for me and because it was more, it was a tad more adult, more sophisticated, the,

You know, it was a mammoth thing. And Ed Zwick, it was his first movie. And he went on to do a lot of big, like adult movies after that. And that sort of felt like a real, a real transition. But it's, you know, I've always, by the way, how have we not talked about Joel Schumacher? I mean, who directed Time to Kill and directed me in St. Elmo's Fire. I mean, how have we gone this long in the interview? Let's talk, let's talk. You know, my Joel Schumacher, someone says, I'm in Canton, Mississippi.

And we're in there and we're in the production office. And he's got this big office down at the warehouse, in the courthouse. He's got the big blackboard up there. And then we was talking and I asked him, I go, well, Joe, what's one, like, what's the one thing you can say, like your movies, that all your movies are just going to have? What are you about? If you want to say your one thing is, oh, that's easy. And he turns around to the chalkboard. It's a piece of chalk. And he writes S-E-X-Y, baby.

I was like, yes. Sexy. Now, you know, and he did something for me. I can't wait to hear you tell your experience with him. But talk about I was coming in. I've got the lead in this movie. Time to kill. Yeah. Time to kill. Time to kill. I had a couple of moments where I get a little heady thinking I need to be more of an actor. And he would just come to me, put his hands on my shoulder and he'd go, Matthew, you are Jake McGann's. It's why I hired you.

Do what you would do. It was the greatest thing he could have told a young actor who's now got the lead in a movie. Just go, no, I hired you for a reason. And what a casting director that guy is. And then he had above all else, Joel had taste. Oh, yes. Above all. The only time his taste failed him is when he put nipples on the bat suit. That's the only time. That's the only time.

He liked to push. It was the only time. He liked to push a little bit. Just push a little bit. Well, the best was I was interested in playing Robin. And so I was like lobbying, lobbying. And my agents were like, no, Joel has a very specific vision of George Clooney and Chris O'Donnell. I was like, yeah, I bet he does. And I knew I wasn't getting that. Yeah, you're not breaking up that trio, babe. Okay. No. No.

Oh, yes. Shoo my shay. Shoo my shay. Shoo my shay. So is it written in there that you play the saxophone or is that the sexiest, sexier instrument choice? Well, there's a couple of things that are kind of interesting. So like there's more hair, most per capita in my hair in that, in that movie, but it could have been worse because I'd never heard of hair extensions. I'd never heard of them. And Joel wanted me to have hair extensions. Yes. And I,

I remember driving to the valley to the hair extension place and I got lost. I could not figure out where to go. And I was really frustrated. And I was like, I didn't go just because I was lost. It was like up in like deep in the valley. And then the next day we had to leave. So I missed having hair extensions by proper directions. Okay. And it could have been so much worse. It could have been so much more hair and so much more mousse. So you didn't ever have them? You didn't get them?

I never did. That's my real hair. Okay. But they were... But it's frosted. I'm wearing... I'd never had my hair dyed. Okay. Of course, Joel wanted... My hair dyed. Of course. And I had to have an earring. And I got my ear pierced. Of course, that's a Joel thing. And... And then the cast used to sit around and roll their eyes because I got more close-ups than anybody else in the movie. And I...

When Demi was with Ashton, I was over at the house with them and Ashton was like, bro, have you seen Scene Almost Fire recently? I was like, not really. He goes, oh, you've got to go back and look at that movie. I was like, why? He goes, what that camera is doing to you is pornographic. Yeah.

Shoemache! Shoemache! Yes, God bless you, buddy. We miss you. Oh, so much. I mean, and the balls of him to be able to, I mean, you'd worked, but you were not anything that they were going to bank on at that time. And he cast you and changed your life. Dude, he goes, I bring up to him, I was originally, I met with Joel Schumacher for a time to kill about the part that Kiefer ended up playing, the Freddie Lee Cobb role.

Wow. I read the script, read the book. I'm like, geez, I like this guy, Jay Brigance. But I don't know if I got the cojones to bring that up. But I said, no, got to try it. Just try it. And in that meeting, I got a gap. I remember I was wearing a sleeveless Mellencamp t-shirt and smoking cigarettes. And I got a gap. And it was like the meeting was over. And all of a sudden, I go, so who's playing the lead of Jay Brigance? And he goes, I don't know. Who do you think should? And I remember going, felt my heartbeat go up. And I was like, I think I should. And he goes, ah!

a great idea. I love it, but it's never going to happen. It's never going to happen. Matthew, it's a brilliant idea, but let me tell you something. There's no way the studio is going to cast a relatively unknown. You'd be perfect for the part, but it's just never going to happen. Now, we go on. They've got everything else cast. John Grisham has casting approval over that role because it's based on him. I think

I think these are true. I was told they were true. Kevin Costner was under consideration, but they were like, well, he's that old. We need a younger. You'd wonder why he wouldn't be a successful lawyer earlier. They were looking at Woody, but Woody had come out in Natural Born Killers, which Oliver Stone and John Grisham get in an editorial fight because there was a copycat like Murder in Mississippi of someone that Condor some new. And I had heard that there was John Grisham going, no way that guy, Woody,

who played Mickey, is going to play me. So that moves him out. They're coming down. We're a couple of months before every other role is cast. Sandra Bullock's already in the role of Roe Ark. While You Were Sleeping comes out. Now she can green light a movie. And now she can green light a movie after she was already cast in the third lead. Oh, can't find the lead. All of a sudden, I get a call. Want to screen test you, Matthew, for the role of Jake McGannis.

We're going to do it on a Sunday. I believe it's Mother's Day. We're going to do it at a little studio off of Fairfax. The reason we're not doing it at a studio is because even if you do great, you're probably not going to get the role. And as you're coming into Hollywood, I don't want you, Matthew, to have it on your resume that you tried to get a role and screen test for a time together and didn't get it.

How thoughtful is that from the guy? That's Schumacher. So I sneak up to the studio. It's there's a full jury cameras lit. It's a screen test. I get up. I read this final summation like a script says. He goes, great, great. You did great. Now throw away the script. Say what you would say. Well, I sit there and say what I would say. And I'm saying stuff that no lawyer would say. I would be in contempt of court if I said what that were in court. Anyway, I get going. He also he steps in because cut, cut, cut, cut.

Great. Brilliant. Thank you. Great. Now goes on. Those things happen, which make the studio think maybe we could try something out with the newbie in the role. John Grisham sees it. His wife likes his wife tells John Grisham. That's just you. All of a sudden, I'm working in Piedras Negras on Lone Star with John Sayles. It's midnight. I get a call. John Grisham and Joel Schumacher. You want to be Jake Bergantz? You got the role.

Yeah, I do. Ran off into the desert, man, about a half a mile till I was sweating. Tears coming down my eyes. Took a knee, saw a full moon in the air and reached up there and said, let's shake on it. Thank you. And that was how that happened. A lot of different things had to go my way. And Schumacher was protecting me the whole way. That's such a great. I mean, that's the look. I'm I'll only speak for myself. I have a complicated relationship with what we do, but it's stories like that.

That make me remember that I love it. Yep. It's an awesome business. We're in this storytelling business. And it takes all kinds. You know what I mean? I always talk about people go, you know, oh, that person, that actor is weird or whatever. I'm like, man, I love it when actors have their idiosyncrasies. As long as they're on time and know their stuff, go do whatever you got to do. Same. By the way, the more –

The actors, they'd be like, oh, here comes – they are always the ones I love the most. Me too. Me too. They're always the ones I love the most. Yeah. Did you have any interactions with – you did. Of course you did in the Nolan movie with Michael Caine, right? Yes.

I mean, by the way, he is not complicated and people say, oh, here comes Michael Caine. He's a genius. He's not that guy. I've just pivoted for a minute only because I love him so much. And he's a great way to look at how people –

Can he told me this recently and I don't do a Michael Caine, but I'm going to try to do a horrible one here because I can't help myself. Well, it was terrible. I'm not doing it. That was that was like a bad Paul McCartney. I am not doing it. No, but he just said that he said he came up with a bunch of dudes and it's Malcolm McDowell. There are two or three other ones that he named and he goes and he goes, I wasn't the best actor. Not even close.

Um, but the other one, and, and I wasn't the hottest and I didn't have the best career, but the other ones either drank themselves to death or forgot how to act. Hmm. And I was the last man standing.

And now I own it. And it's true. I mean, he just, he's that, he's Michael Caine. You know what I mean? He's the guy. It was interesting. I said, what do you mean they forgot how to act? He goes, oh. And I forgot, for the life of me, I wish I could remember these specific, but it was some actor and some great performance that we all would know. And he goes, and he didn't work for like three years after that.

And you start thinking, you start overthinking, you worry about the end. They literally forgot how to act. Oh, I know what it was. He was saying people always gave me shit about being in so many movies and that people thought I worked for money and people thought Michael Caine's done great movies and trash movies. And the truth of it is, I love acting and I never forgot how to act. And other people did. And they like that, like that young man I was talking about in Days Confused wrote themselves out of the script. Yes. Yeah.

They overthought themselves out of the script. They snobbed, they snobbed themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Out of the script. Yeah. Um, I have a great Joel one for you. So, um, and, and you can, you can all do a little parlor game. You've seen almost fire fans out there. Um, there was a person and I don't want to say, um, uh, gender cause that will make it maybe too easy, but there was a person on the show who was struggling with various things. And I'll never forget Joel taking that person's hanging. Um,

You have a drug problem, a punctuality problem, a communication problem, and a Hollywood problem.

It was... You're writing yourself out of the script. You're forgetting how to act. I love where it starts. You have a drug problem, which leads to a punctuality problem, which time is our most valuable thing. You have a communication problem, which means you have a Hollywood problem. So good, right? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Shoo-ma-shay. Well, this was so great. I was so happy to have you. I'm so happy for...

And let me join just to go on the record. It's, it sort of goes without saying that I almost didn't say it is your work in Dallas buyers club is, you know, as you know, it's, it's one for the ages. And, uh, um, you know, I, I just, I, I love, I love watching from afar and, um,

You know, I love seeing guys I love do well. And and by the way, congratulations on the family. Sounds like you're you're that that might be your greatest accomplishment. I always feel like that's that's a great accomplishment for anybody. But in our business, I also think it's particularly important.

Uh, can be, uh, hard and, and, and you're crushing it. You know, my, my, my wife did a, did a great deed. Um, my 12 year olds over here peeking in the window, Levi, before we had kids, she came to me and she goes on one condition. I go, what? She goes, you go, we go. I did the same.

Same. Right on. And I talked to and I won't say their names, but I talked to some other fathers that are elder statesmen in our business and asked how they did it. And they said, well, it's a choice, either friends or dad. And each one of them, there were three of them, chose friends. That means they went to work, left their family, let their kids stay with their friends. And all three of them.

Now their kids are grown out of school and out of the house. Said if I could go back and do it again, I'd do the opposite. I'd make them come with because we grew apart. I did. Yeah. I had the same instinct. My kids went everywhere I went with me. It becomes a little tougher, as you know, when they're 12 and 13 and they have their friends. Yeah.

Which is one of the reasons why I transitioned into television when I did, because it wasn't, television wasn't really that cool yet when I did the West Wing. But part of it was, okay, these kids now have friends of their own. You can't just uproot them with a tutor or whatever and bring them. So I got a, that was a big part of, and again, that's how-

How do you stay relevant? How do you do it? Sometimes it's just the weird things you do for other reasons that end up helping you in ways that you never could have imagined. And I don't know if I would have done West Wing had I not had kids at that age where I was really interested in staying in Los Angeles, not doing another movie up in fucking Vancouver or Sri Lanka or whatever. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Amen. Love it. Cool. Well, listen, brother, this was great. Congrats on the book. I think you better start working on a second one. All right. I dig. I dig. I got some ideas I got to work on. I think I want you to write a book about acting.

Yeah? Because I know you've got a great acting class in you. I think we all do in a weird way. I would love... It's like... Because actors who've been there and done it have such a different perspective. I would love a book on acting from you. Career Management Acting. Don't have a drug problem. Be on time. Be able to communicate. Don't have a Hollywood problem. Don't have a punctuality problem. You are...

People at home are going, do you think it was Andrew McCarthy? No, no, it couldn't have been Andrew. He's too nice. People are like, is it Judd Nelson? It might be Judd Nelson. I think it might be Judd Nelson. Wait, do you think it was? I know, it was Mayor Winningham. Yes. Beautiful. Hey, great stuff. Have a great beginning to 2021, man. Same with you. And look forward to talking again. Always great to see you. When I see you, look forward to doing it in person next time. I do want to end with this, though. When I first met you,

Contact, set, trailers. I'm sitting on the steps of my white trailer, my star trailer, the one we're all in. They're lined up. This guy comes bounding around the corner with a cigar, dressed in a suit, looking sharp. Comes over. Hey, Connie, as he's saying hi to me, this person walks around, this attractive person walks around the corner. And without missing a beat, while he's got the cigar and saying hi to me, it instinctually, you looked at me and went, ha, look at you.

I loved it. I was like, look at you. What a great introduction. You didn't even know this person. Look at you. And I was like, it made this person feel so good. It made me laugh my ass off. And you were just right there going cigar, holding court in tune. Yes, look at me. Anyway, it was great. Oh, it's the best. And you're the best. Thanks, man. This is so fun. Enjoy. See you next time, y'all. All right, brother. Bye. I have such a big smile on my face.

I think that's what he does. I think Matthew brings smiles to people's faces. That's probably his superpower. A question I was going to ask him, actually, was, what's your superpower? Now, I don't need to ask it because I know what it is. He brings a smile to your face. I hope you guys enjoyed that as much as I did. I could have talked for another five hours to him. And check out the book, Greenlights. He's in a reconnaissance.

And we're just living in it and happy to do so. Okay, before I sign off today, we're going to try a little something new, some fun over here, literally. Okay, this is a new thing for us. I'm very excited about it. Hopefully you will be too, because it's going to require your participation. It's called the low down line, the low down line. So you, dear listener, can ask me your burning questions about the show,

Frankly, about anything. And I'll just be honest, because when I do my one-man show, I open it up to questions. And here's what I know. The weirder, the better. Like, I don't want to hear like, what was it like to be in The Outsiders? I don't want that. Don't come at me with your weak cheese. Come at me with something, okay? So it's the low-down line. So here it is. Here's the number. Here's the low-down line number. 323-570-

That's 323-570-4551. That's the lowdown line. And I have big expectations for the questions you're going to give me. Thanks. We'll be back next week. Oh, and if you like the show, give us the rating and the review on Apple. We like those things. They move the needle. We like needles that are moving. We like green lights. All right. All right. All right.

You have been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe. Produced and engineered by me, Devin Tory Bryant.

Executive produced by Rob Lowe for Lowe Profile. Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blair. Talent producer, Jennifer Samples. Please rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts. And remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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