Michael Cera: Have a Nightmare
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Hey, man, how you doing? I'm good. I was trying to think if you and I have ever actually crossed paths. We have so many friends in common. No, I don't think so. No, I would remember. No.

All right, everybody, welcome to Literally. It is your host, Mr. Robbie Osefias-Lowe. Michael Cera is with us. What a great actor he is. Arrested Development. He's George Michael. Come on. We have George Michael on the show. I'd almost rather have this George Michael...

than the actual departed George Michael. I don't know. They'd both be great. Anyway, Michael Cera, super bad, among other things. He's got a cool movie out right now, Paul's Fury. He's a funny, funny, smart, wonderful actor and looking forward to getting to know him because I never met him.

I've been doing a deep dive on some stuff. You've done a lot of stuff that's so cool and interesting, but I really want to talk about your Tim Hortons commercial because I'm super obsessed with Tim Hortons. I mean, it's like, oh, you know, we've been to a Timmy's to get a crullery. Get a double-double. Oh, a double-double. Oh, yeah, the double-double. Oh, yeah. Double-double is a go-to. How do you think Tim Horton became? He was like a rudimentary hockey player, right? He wasn't like a huge star, right? Or was he?

I have no information about the man at all. I never cared about hockey, which I'm not popular where I'm from for that fact. I'm surprised they haven't renounced. We're never getting that little ribbon.

On your jacket or no, no, the medal of Canada is huge. Actually, the Canadian thing they give you is gnarly. Nobody's ever brought that anywhere around me. We're not getting it. No, I got no, no, I messed up. You know, when I was like six, all my friends started playing hockey and I went into karate because I didn't really realize like it was going to be such an essential part of like art.

that they were all going to have this thing that they shared that I was going to be on the outside of forever. So I completely missed the boat on hockey. I just didn't play it. And all my friends, my closest friends are, you know, like phenomenal at it. And not only that, it's like so integrated into just...

and our whole culture. Aren't you from the same town Gretzky's from? No. No, I believe he's from Brantford. Oh, that's right. And I'm from Brampton. Brampton. Oh. Yeah, yeah. See, I know where Wayne Gretzky's from. You've got to give me that. I mean, listen. Some things you can't avoid. You know Gretzky's hometown. Yeah.

So you wanted to be a child, well not wanted to be, you were, yes, a child actor. Of course you were. I can say that you were a child actor. There's no disrespect in that. None. I'll own it. Yeah. I'm not ashamed. No, you'll own it. When did you start at Second City Toronto? Oh, that, well, I did that when I was like kind of 10.

Jesus, no you did not. Yeah, well I wasn't performing. I mean, I never... What I did was like the classes, you know, you can do kind of classes with other kids where you're just playing, you know, improv games with other kids and it's fun. But I never... I think if you stay with that, you could eventually kind of maybe, you know, kind of work on the stage or something. But I just did that for two years and I stopped. I mean...

a kind of big like problem for me was that it was in, in the city in Toronto. And that's kind of like, you know, an hour from where I live. So my parents would drive me in on the weekend and you know, I don't know. I couldn't really keep doing it forever because of that, but I loved it. It was, it was great. Did you have the thing that I had when I, I started doing like kids workshops, like basically what you're describing as a kid's acting workshop. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I started. And I, I, I treated it like,

you'd have thought we were in a lab curing cancer and all these other kids were like farting around and whatever. And I was like, get it together. I was like, yeah, I was like, so all, all over it. It's probably, probably the only thing in my life I've ever been serious enough about to do anything. Yeah. That was the only thing I ever had any traction doing, you know, like, I mean, sports were a nightmare and this acting class thing, you know, which were just for fun, like you're saying, um,

But yeah, it was like I could feel a little bit of like, oh, I'm succeeding in this. How old were you when you were doing it? I started acting as a kid when I was like eight. Doing those kind of workshops. Yeah, workshops in Ohio. But they're not like professional in any way, right? No. It's like a recreational, like a weekend thing with kids. Totally. It's like a summer camp. Yeah, right. It's classes basically, yeah. Yeah. And fun. And most everybody in there –

treated it like that. I, you'd have thought I was prepping for my audition for a multi-year contract to whatever, you know, and I didn't know this at the time. And I had no, um, I had no like visualization beyond that of any, any like professional acting work. It was, that was like the end in itself. But, but that actually to me was the foot, like the first step on the path of actually acting because I had a teacher who, who, who was great and,

and extremely encouraging. And he's kind of the reason I even got an agent because he kind of kept me back one day after the class and was like with my mom and said, Michael's great. Maybe you guys, maybe you should like try and get an agent and he could kind of get some work and you could put some money aside for the future. And that was kind of the first like thing that like time that idea was even introduced. So that ended up being kind of like an entry point for me into my career, even though it wasn't, you know, it didn't feel like that or it wasn't, that wasn't the goal at all. Yeah.

It's sort of the same for me. I knew I wanted to do it, but I was so young, it didn't equal making a living. It wasn't even a thought, really. But what you were saying about taking it really seriously, I remember, I don't know if you did, it kind of culminated every year with a performance for us, for the parents. Yeah.

Yes, of course. So you would read for parts, you know, because they would kind of make a little script and then you would be like, OK, now we're going to assign the roles. And, you know, there were a couple of juicy parts like like the villain and every kid would read for it, you know. And I did have a thing where I was like, I want that fucking I want that part. Yes. And I got it.

And that was a thrill. I mean, that was like one of the first thrills of my professional life when they told me I got that. I was like, oh, yes. Yeah, I always lost out to Noel Schaefer. He was my nemesis. He was my, before there was a John Stamos, there was a...

Yeah. Before there was a Brad Pitt. Yeah. It was that guy. Music Man. That was the big one. They were doing the Music Man. Oh, you guys really went for it with big productions. We were doing little made-up plays. No, these were like – I mean I was so lucky to grow up in a time and place where like community theater was like a big deal. I mean it was adult – there were kid parts in it. So that's what I would audition for. But they were adult productions. Full show.

Full, oh, full show. Dayton Playhouse, Wright State University, University of Dayton, Kenley Play—there was a thing called the Kenley Players, which was a traveling summer stock. And they would do Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus, Detroit, whatever the hell they were. And they would do two weeks each city and do like Carousel, Music Man, South Pacific. And they would center it around whatever hot TV star was on their hiatus. So you'd get like—

Henry Winkler in come through, you know? Wow. Yeah. Whatever. And it was hilarious. Vincent price is Fagan and Oliver. And it was exciting. And to me, Tim. Oh, it was like, that's incredible. The highest of high art to go to the Memorial hall and see Sandy Duncan and Peter Pan. I was like, I'm in the, I'm in the middle of show business. And would they do kind of, was it like a run or was it like a one-off show?

Their run was all summer with multiple cities and probably a week in each city. They call it the bus and truck thing. That's cool. That was super fun. Yeah. Super fun. I never got one of those shows. That was the big time. That would be fun. I mean, it must be interesting doing a touring show like that and being in a...

different house every week and the whole show must change depending on where you are and the shape of the room and everything. Like, remember when the marching band comes in and Ms. Man, well, we don't have a marching band here because we're in Akron. We're going to do something else. It's much smaller. Yeah. I'll think it up. And wait, you were also, I need to know about all your commercials. Mine was a Coke commercial. That was the first thing I did. That's huge. That's huge. Dude, not only was it huge, it was the first commercial

commercial made specifically for the super bowl that's huge oh that's what i arrived yeah that's that's a biggie oh and i had a really great part i came out and pointed yeah sky that's that was a showstopper for how old were you i by then i was 13 oh that's a fantastic part i mean it was fun when you could be on commercials and you know back in the day when um

When we were all watching TV all the time, and then your friends would see you in the commercial, that was great. Kids in school are like, "Are you on TV?" They'd see the commercial. Yeah. I mean, you think about there were three television networks. The amount of people that would see your commercial would equal anything you've ever done on a streamer today. Yeah, that's true. They'd play those all the time. They would play them every commercial break, it would come up.

And you could kind of get high every time it comes on TV. Like, it's on. It's great. I remember because I wanted to record it, and it was before, in my case, before DVRs. Yeah, that's hard to pull off. I would literally try to guess what show it would be on and sit there with a Super 8 movie camera pointed at the screen. Just film the TV. That was a long time with your hand on the trigger. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a good way to do it though because you could get it within a half a second. You could go and fire. Now, did you get to really work with the Pillsbury Doughboy? I did. I mean, I did a whole – What was he like? Outstanding. I mean, professional in a word.

That was for me, that was my big Coca-Cola moment because I mean exciting to be with a recognized icon. Yeah. I didn't get to work with Ronald McDonald. The Pillsbury Doughboy. He's up there. And the laugh. Yeah. I poked him. No. Yes. Get out. Yeah. It's just me. You get to poke. I'm the only live action person in the commercial.

Okay, walk me through this. I need the Criterion Series extras in this. Those are the only two commercials I ever did, and I went on probably a thousand commercial auditions. Same. But yeah, I mean, it was just crushing. And eventually, I was like 10, but I said to my agent, like, no more commercials. I'm only reading for TV roles now. Movies only. Yeah, because that was a whole...

And there were a couple of kids or like three kids getting all the parts because they just had that thing, you know, like the commercial child energy. And I just I couldn't get there myself. And I was just not booking anything. I was like, this is getting so debilitating, depressing, soul crushed at 10 years old.

Yeah, yeah. Not getting the new Lego commercial. But you showed them. You got the Lego movie later on. Yeah, hell with them. And I kind of took a bit of a pride in it too. And I was like, no more. I'm just reading for real stuff, substantial stuff now. No more of these like smiley, cheesy acting things. It really is demoralizing. I mean, I had about the same batting average. It felt like I probably did 200 auditions for commercials and got three of them. Yeah. It was brutal.

Yeah. Absolutely just brutal. I mean, I wouldn't have continued as an actor, I think, or attempting to get parts if I hadn't booked the very first thing I ever went on. You know, it was like the first job I ever went out for the Tim Hortons commercial that I booked. And I mean, that gave me so much fire in my engine. I was just like, OK, let's go. You know, if I hadn't booked that and just it was just a bunch of rejections to start off, I would have thrown in the towel. I think, you know, because it's just it's just hard. Yeah.

especially for a kid. Did you think it was like going to the Superbowl every year? Like people that think that's going to happen to them if they get that lucky. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to book everything I go out on. I'm amazing. And then, you know, I always think about, you know, making that next step. Did you ever go through like, whether it's a function of, you know, awkward phase or for me, it was when I was 15,

15, 16, 17, you always hired 18-year-olds to play younger because they could work them more. So I didn't work at all. And I thought, okay, it's over. I'm done. I'm toast. My career is over. Yeah. I never thought of that. Well, I was on a TV series for those years that I got hired on when I was like 13. So that kind of pulled me through that odd pocket. Yeah. No kidding. Yeah. I never even thought of that. But that makes sense. I mean –

Yeah, you're kind of in an unhirable age there, aren't you? Because they're like, well, we can get an 18-year-old who doesn't need a tutor. How old were you on Arrested Development? I think I was like 13 when I got the pilot for that. Jesus. Or 14, something like that, yeah. I mean, that show is, as you know, I mean, it's the Mount Rushmore of genius. You're so, everybody is just a killer, an absolute murderer. Did you watch the show when it was on TV or kind of like?

I did. You did? Oh, wow. That's amazing, man. Wow. Thank you for saying that. I mean, that's really nice to hear. And it's so nice to know that you were watching because we didn't have a lot of viewership. Because it was so ahead of its time. It makes perfect sense that people didn't really get it. Yeah, and it wasn't really designed for that kind of episodic weekly TV show.

Just because it builds on itself, you know, so much. So it's not really built for like, you know, to attract a new audience from week to week and like snowball. Because if people jump in on episode five, they're kind of like, what's even going on? Yeah. And that's what obviously I loved about it was how self-referential it was. And just some of the runners and the bits were so obscure unless you –

Had been watching. Yeah. Watching closely. Yeah. I mean, even if you're watching closely, you can miss stuff, you know, it's kind of like hidden. A lot, a lot of the best jokes are,

Totally hidden. Just whenever they said your name, I laughed out loud. It's just something about somebody being called George Michael made me laugh. And when you think about it, it's, well, of course, why not? It's just a very similar name. But the fact that it was also the iconic name of George Michael just was so funny to me. Yeah. Did you ever get to meet your namesake, George Michael? I wish. Oh, I did. Oh, boy. I had George Michael. Oh, bro. Yeah.

We were buds. We had a good time together. My favorite George Michael story is I was young, really super young, and I was obsessed with the Lakers during the Showtime era. And I finally get into the locker room to meet them, my heroes. Wow. That's pretty cool. And they're so excited to see me. And I'm like, wow, they know me. Isn't this cool? That's fantastic. And then-

they, uh, asked me for an, one of them asked, I can't remember who it was, asked me for my autograph and I signed it and they got really disappointed because it turns out he thought I was George Michael. Oh no. Oh my God. That is so funny. You know, I mean, I kind of get it. The hair, the sort of five o'clock shadow that, that era. I'm friends with Max Winkler, who's Henry Winkler's son. Of course. Yes. And, um,

Max has an amazing story where he was with, I'll just tell his anecdote. Why not? Please. He was, he was at like Dustin Hoffman's house. I think he was friends with Jake Hoffman, Dustin's son. And he was there, I think, you know, and I'm sure he had met Dustin Hoffman kind of through his father, like over the years and, you know, or here and there, you know, he had met him, but they're there. It's kind of like new year's Eve or something maybe. And Dustin Hoffman comes up to Max who's directing, you know, and it's just starting out as a director. He's kind of in his twenties and Dustin Hoffman goes like, how are you, man? How have you been?

And Max goes, I'm great. I'm great. And he goes, and Dustin Hoffman says to him, why haven't we worked together yet? And Max's heart is going like, boom, boom, boom, boom. And he's like, I don't know. I would love to. And Dustin's like, why don't you want to go for a drive? Why don't we go for a drive in my car? And he goes, well, yeah, yeah, I would love to. A few minutes, he goes up to like put his shoes on or something. And Jake comes up to Max laughing and he goes,

My dad just came over to me and said, I'm going for a drive with Spike Jonze. Oh my God. That's so sad. I once had an entire meeting, a lunch meeting with Danny DeVito and realized halfway through that he thought I was Matt Dillon. That is painful. And then you go, do I... What do you do? Yeah, how do you... Yeah, because...

Right? How do you let them down? How do you burst the bubble? Yeah. Because he's going to be mortified when you bring that news to his attention. And look, let's face it. I'm a coward. So I didn't say anything. And I was bailed out when the real Matt Dillon arrived at the meeting. Oh, God. And so then Danny had to do the math. And had to do a little bit of back- Backpedaling. Yeah. And acted like it was all- We acted like it was all perfectly normal. It was all cool. Yeah. No, you guys can do a lot of backbending to make that feel real normal.

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Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Who do you get mistaken for today? Anybody? Do you have people that are like, ah? No, I don't often get mistaken. I used to get Jesse Eisenberg all the time. Oh, yeah, I can see that. And I met Jesse and he said that he gets me about as much. I don't know why. I mean, I really, I don't know. I guess we're just in the same pocket.

But I even got mistaken for him by people who knew him and had worked with him. And they're like, what's your problem? Come on. It's me. You're like, tell me about the social network. Yeah. Yeah.

You're so good in that. Like, well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I have to tell people that I wasn't in Footloose. Yeah. Whatever. Even now. Even now. I was at a Dodger game last night. The guy was talking about, I love that early movie you did, Taps. You know what was a really bad one for me once was, I don't know if you ever had a version of this. I was in Shreveport working on a movie years ago and I was in a restaurant and I think Superbad had just come out.

And the guy who was our waiter. So I think the situation which I figured out later was like some of the staff recognized me. That's the guy from Superbad. I was there with a friend of mine and our waiter, I think, hadn't seen it.

And he was like, well, you know who? And they were like, yeah, go ask him if he's the guy from super bad. So they enlisted him, you know, but he didn't know, hadn't seen the movie. So he came over and he looked at my friend and, you know, and he goes, Hey, Hey, aren't you? You're from that movie, man. You're from that movie. And that was such a weird situation. Cause we were like, what is happening?

And how do we, you know, just how do you move past it? And the guy either has to lie. Yeah, my friend was. Yeah, I am the guy. We were doing the math law in real time. And I said to him, I think this was my attempt at breaking the ice and sort of bringing us all home. But it made it worse. But I said I was like, have you seen the movie? And then because he he because he hadn't he got so defensive.

And he, and he started snapping at me. He was like, yeah, of course I've seen it. What's your, you know, what's your problem? And then the whole situation got so ugly and weird and there was just no way to reel ourselves out of it. You know, we all felt terrible. Such a great movie though. Super bad. It's, it's, I, I think super bad. I think your guys' work, the two of you, Jonah and you, or is just beyond belief. I mean, I, I'm, I'm not kidding when I say, I really am not that.

that I think you guys should have gotten nominated for Oscars. I'm not kidding. That's so sweet. Well, do you have a feeling like that movie is so long ago for me? And I guess you might have this with some things you worked on where you have basically no memory of the process. I mean, I think it's really sweet to hear you say that. And I kind of, you know, I can kind of take the compliment because I feel so separated from the world. It doesn't, I don't even know what I did or what you're even talking about, but I appreciate you saying it.

But I totally get it. It was a very conducive environment to good work because we all just felt really relaxed. I know that was going on. I didn't feel like we were making a movie. It felt like we were all hanging out, having a good time. Well, that's what it felt like. It felt like it was such an authentic experience.

hang you like you're I'm hanging with these characters yeah yeah they yeah I mean and all credit you know for that goes to all those guys you know Seth and Evan and Greg Mottola I mean it was so relaxed I mean and not only that we felt so supported like I would be hanging out you know during scenes that I wasn't in hanging out at the monitors and you know and I was like my first feature film really but I felt you know by like a week in I felt comfortable enough to like make suggestions you know and

make pitches to like scenes I wasn't in. I mean, at first I kind of did it like dipping a toe, like, is this even allowed? And it was so embraced, you know, they would laugh and they'd be like, Oh yeah, let's do that. It was just so embracing and encouraging of an environment. You know, it was very magical like that. And it's funny because their, their process, Evan and Seth, the way they make,

is so... I don't want to say it's on the fly because the scripts are always really great, but when you're on the set, they pitch wildly all the time, yelling stuff out. Yeah. Total curveballs. Change the whole scene. Yeah. You're like, okay.

I did a little thing for them in a movie called The Interview. Yeah. And I was just blown away with how – It's a crazy movie. It's insane. And the fallout of that movie. Dude, it almost brought the country to war. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That – I mean that's a fascinating story, that whole situation. So the interview for those of you who may have forgotten or didn't see it was –

Franco and Seth Rogen playing hack journalists basically that go to interview Kim Jong-un of North Korea. But this is pre-North Korea really getting in the news. Saber rattling. Saber rattling, yeah. And the North Koreans were angry. They hacked the studios. They cyber attacked. Yeah.

Yes. The studio. It was literally an international incident. Yeah. This stupid little funny comedy. That was crazy. And by the time – and it happened before the movie had come out, unfortunately. So by the time it came out, the notion that it was even a movie nobody cared about.

It was all about the story, the drama and the intrigue. And I can remember being on the, there was some premiere we did somewhere. And I remember Seth had to like travel with an armed guard. Sure. Yeah. And no, you don't want to get the smear threats. You don't want to get the smear. The poison, the poisonous smear across your cheek that makes you die in five minutes. The poison smear. That's right. They do that in the other. Yeah. Exactly. But that was going on. It was real thing. It's pretty scary. And of all people in the world, Seth really. Yeah.

I mean, like the most harmless human you could ever come across. It was so crazy that they were at the center of all that. That must have been a fascinating movie to be a part of when it was coming out. Because what did it eventually? Because basically, like Kim Jong-un was saying that if you play in theaters here, that was like an act of war. Right. He was going to consider that. Right. Like, yes, it shouldn't even be shown in theaters. Yes. Yes.

And was it or was it not? It was to my recollection, but it was again, this is the one of the things that like my memory of it is is so foggy and it's also insane that I don't remember what's true and not true because all of it sounds like it's a made up story. I know it's so insane. You can't believe that that it happened. Just circling back to Arrested, that cast, what was the vibe like?

on that show. You're so young, though. You don't really know. You're like 13. Yeah, my perception of it and my experience of it was loving the cast, loving the atmosphere and being so excited to be on the show, so proud of the show. And me and Alia, who played my cousin, we were the two...

on the set. And you know how it is when you're a child actor, you kind of have to, you know, like zip off to do your schoolwork in between scenes. It's a lot of work. But the real...

bummer for us was like there's such a hang going on like all the guys were all chain smoking and hanging out at the trailer and laughing and we got to like sneak in where we could but um it was sort of out of reach in a way because we had to go do our you know schooling and she and i had each other and we're like best friends to this day so we had each other and but and we did get to like hang with the guys and they i mean at least when we were shooting you know and they were always um

They never censored themselves. I mean, they were, it was very much like big brother vibe, really encouraging. You know, everybody was always really, really encouraging with us, but really, it was a tough, like, room to hold your own in, just in terms of just, just even if you ever ventured to like, maybe try and say something funny.

about the with these guys or something it took a lot of nerve because they're performing at such a high level and such a rate it just makes your head spin you know you're just taking everything in just we just basically would watch them and laugh all the time you know it was just a lot of laughing will is so amazing that might be one of the great comic characters of all time yeah i mean it might be right oh yeah i mean it's crazy what he's doing on that show

it's literally crazy it's actually insane it's so huge yeah it's so it's so huge it's funny and so his like rhythm and the little pockets that he finds things in are miraculous so yeah he kills me i mean you know seeing will as a 13 year old guy and just worshiping him completely you know and i you know it's one of those things where i worshiped all them and um

You know, you have like memory. I don't know if you have this with people that you worked with that you love, but you like some of the most deeply embedded memories in my like brain and in my DNA are moments where you kind of have like get a laugh out of one of them or just have a successful moment. Whatever it is, they go so far. Your whole like just heart explodes and you're like tattooing it onto your memory and like, what did I do right there? That was, you know, something good.

You know what I mean? Oh, for sure. I can remember every single time I ever made David or Will laugh. And you know what it's like. It's like some brilliant comedians are not the most generous laughers either. Those guys seem to be. They want everybody to be as funny, but you can't really compete with guys like that. You can't. No, and they won't fake laugh either though. I mean –

Yeah, if you get one, it's a win. It's a win with them. Yeah. And, you know, I kind of wanted to ask you, actually, because I was thinking about it before we were talking today. And, you know, we both had kind of a similar start of our careers. And I wonder if there was like a person or a couple of people who were maybe actors who were really instrumental to you or who, yeah, you know, like really kept you going in a way.

Were there a couple? It's so funny you say that because whenever I get a chance to talk to younger actors, I love to do it because my memory of my life was, as you know, can be very different than the reality of your life. Memories and reality are always, don't always line up. But my memory was I had idols and icons that I wanted to emulate.

Like literally wanted to emulate. Like I knew where they lived. I knew how they lived. I knew what movies they did. I knew what kind of shirts they wore. Right. You know, and they would be Warren Beatty and Robert Redford and –

you know, people like that. And, but they were never in my life. They were never really in my orbit. And so I felt like I, I made it up as best I could on my own. And by the time I got some traction, people came into my life who were, there was a long period where I was very close with Lorne Michaels and that was, um, you know, an amazing mentor to have. And, and Lorne taught me

so much about comedy and producing and how to navigate the world and how to live. Actually, no one lives better than Lauren. It takes a lot of money, but, but no, no one lives better than Lauren. Lauren taught me how to get a lot of overhead basically is what I'm trying to say here. How did you, how did you, um, how did you guys, how did that first start? I mean, what was the, what was the starting point of that relationship? I did SNL one year and, um,

He just liked you. I had it. And we just – yes, we just hit it off. I had a particularly good show. I bailed myself out of a – there was a meltdown live in one of the sketches. Somebody missed a cue. Oh, wow. Somebody was me. What happened? It threw the whole machine out of whack? It was me and Phil Hartman. Oh, that's amazing. He played a character, Mace. Mace.

It was kind of a reoccurring character that he played where he played a really nasty convict and he was in a cell and he liked when the spring chickens were put in. And of course, I was the pretty boy spring chicken brought into Mace's cell and he wanted to do terrible things to me. And the whole sketch led to Mace's big joke. Yeah. And I screwed up the setup. Yeah.

I screwed this up. So now there's, there's no joke. There's no joke. No way to fix it. No way to know it. And the sketch, it wasn't like it was in the middle of the sketch. I have to watch this. And that's your first time ever doing SNL. Yes. Yeah. Wow. And I found some ad lib. Whoa, you salvaged it and got an even bigger laugh. Are you kidding me? And the joke got address. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah.

And I came off stage and Lauren goes, well, if it isn't Harry Houdini. Wow. We became friends from that. That's impressive, man. I mean, how did you do that? You just were in a total corner and you had a survival instinct? Yeah, that's exactly it. Total survival. I didn't think of it. It just happened. It was not like I was thinking. You're like blacked out. I remember that. I blacked out. I remember the adrenaline.

I went out of my own body. Oh my God. And the next thing I know, I was saying whatever the ad lib was and someone just showed you the way I was so grateful. Cause he was looking at me like we're on live TV. We're screwed. Yeah. Wow. You know what? I've had moments like that on stage doing like play where, um, something gets messed up. And, uh, I was doing a play with Kieran Culkin for a long time. We did it kind of twice, but,

We were doing a run and I messed up once. And Kieran, he's like, it's like a high wire trapeze artist. You know, you're like, oh shit, you know, I'm falling. And he just grabbed me. Like that happened several times where he saved the whole show. I mean. So exciting though. That's fantastic. I mean, the next five, 10 minutes are charged and the audience, I think, doesn't know why they're charged, but like my heart was racing, you know, and like,

I think the whole next 10 minutes were like some of the most exciting moments

you know, times on stage I've ever had. Cause your heart is racing. You're in this physiological state and you're doing the scene. It's just so fun. And you're just so grateful. You're psychically speaking to each other and saying, holy shit, that was close. Thank you so much that, you know, uh, it does. Isn't that funny? You are that you are literally having that conversation. Yeah. On stage. And you're seeing it all in each other's eyes. That whole conversation is

It's really exciting. Yeah. After the West Wing, Aaron Sorkin and I went to London and did a revival of A Few Good Men. And I played Caffey, the Tom Cruise part. And was it opening night? Yes. Was that a play before it was a movie? It was a play. Aaron wrote it when he was 24. Oh, I didn't know that. One of the most successful plays of its time. Right. And...

It did not run long, but it was like an it thing and everybody came and bought the rights and it was a bidding war. And then the movie, yeah. And then the movie. But people forget it was a play. And it's a great play. I mean a great – it just is foolproof if you just say the words and don't fall over. It's foolproof. But in England – like in Broadway, as you know, the critics can come any time during previews and oftentimes you don't know when they're there. Yeah. Yeah.

In England, they only come on opening night. Oh, right. Yeah, because I like it better in previews when you just go out and ignorance is bliss. You just keep doing it. So it's opening night. Packed house critics, I have someone on the stand. Caffey is doing one of his. And isn't it true that on the night of the 3rd, you offered a Code Red...

whatever. And I look at the actor and his eyes are as big as saucers. I'm like, that's an interesting choice. And then I realized I've, I've jumped the,

Three pages ahead. Yeah, and it's all plot. Yeah, like there's no play that happens life There's no way to end the show because all this information so I had to circle I'd have thread Yeah, so get what you're you know, yeah your way edit edit in real time edit the whole text which is insanely complicated That's crazy. I've had the thing happen where you loop back and

Yeah. You're saying the same thing you already said. Oh no. Oh no. You jump back three pages and then you're like, oh shit, we're like in an Ouroboros like, and the audience is already here and you just got to quickly get out of that and like just. Have you ever had the audience like revolt in the theater? No, no, no. I had a guy, I heard a guy in the audience have a seizure.

Okay, yeah. That would do it. That became the whole focus of the whole audience for that moment. It sounded like someone had been stabbed. We're like, excuse me, I'm trying to act here. Get your health in order. Yeah. Yeah.

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Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. I did a play with Christopher Walken, and he's a great theater actor. I mean, his theater credentials are even more impressive than his movie credentials. But he has a—one of his things is—

He doesn't like to – what's the word? Project. Well, actually, he doesn't like to project. He doesn't like to be loud. And he doesn't really want to work for the audience, which I get. I totally get it. He wants the audience to come to him. So he would often go – it was Three Sisters. It was a Chekhov play.

He would go downstage center and turn his back to the audience. He loved turning his back to the audience. And then would talk like, you know, he would do the dialogue. You can't even hear him on stage. And eventually you would just hear, you would hear. Speak up. Yeah. And then finally you'd hear people, we can't hear you. Yeah. And then we came off stage and he goes, I like it when the audience gets involved like a ball game. Yeah.

That's a tough one. Have you ever done a play where you have an actor who keeps jumping on your line? Oh, no. It's a complicated problem to address because, you know, in theater, there's a thing where you really can't... There could be a very slippery slope with... Even if it's a technical thing like that, with giving any kind of note to your co-stars. You don't want to note...

You don't want to give any kind of note. And a thing like that could be taken as a note. Yes. You know, if you say, could you let me, you know, get it out? What I'm saying? Like, it becomes a little bit chronic. So I, yeah, I get real pickled sometimes in those situations where I just have no idea what to do. And I just ask everyone I know, what should I do? And they give me all different advice and I don't take any of it. And I just lose my mind. I, that would be a really, I don't know how you would navigate. What do you do? Yeah. I mean, what about if it's a, if it's a comedy and they're stepping on your laugh?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a complicated problem. That's kind of their problem though. I mean that's kind of – that kind of makes them look a little awkward I think because they're talking through the laugh, which is like then people can't hear what they're saying. But when someone is jumping on your line like five words before you're done,

And then it kind of makes you speed up. You know, you kind of anticipate it. It's a weird problem. Yeah. Those things – I find those things tough to navigate a little bit, those dynamics. But, you know, Kieran Calkin, again, gave me really great advice in a situation like that where he said – you know, I think I'm a very – I think there's maybe different kind of actors and I think I'm a very –

dependent type of performer where I really, I really feed off of, off of, of people. And, um, I kind of can't do it all on my own, you know, or I'm not that kind of actor where you just kind of, you're the whole engine regardless, you're doing your own thing. You're looking straight ahead. I really kind of, for me, it's all about the other actors, um,

Yep. And then you can get to, you know, where you kind of too dependent on what they're doing and it throws you off. So Kieran was like, you got to go into business for yourself. That was his expression, which I think is an expression of like something Muhammad Ali said or something. Well, that is a great quote. I know. Oh, it's great. It's like you got to just in that situation, you just don't depend. You just got to be on your own, do your thing and just find your own way. You got to go into business. It's so good. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm still figuring out how to achieve that, but tell me, I got to know a little bit about the Barbie movie. Yeah. I'm here in London right now. We're doing it here. Oh wow. It's fun, man. I mean, um, it's going to be the Barbie movie is it's, it's, uh,

Greta Gerwig is directing and it's Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling. Yes. Barbie and Ken. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I just kind of like weaseled my way into it. My manager called me and said, there's this Barbie movie and it's Greta Gerwig and Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling. And it's shooting in London for three months. So I told them you probably wouldn't want to do it. And I was like, what? What? What are you talking? Call them back. I've been like, I mean...

That checked every single box possible for me. And I was, I always dreamt about having some kind of job bring me here. I never have had a chance to work here or live here ever. And I always kind of had this London fantasy. So I was like, man, get them on the phone. What is wrong with you? It is a fantasy working there. It is. It's the best. Yeah. Oh yeah. We're totally falling in love with London. It's, it's great. And, uh,

Yeah, the movie is fun. It's going to be really funny and weird. What's the tone? It's insane. I mean, the tone is very experimental and funny. I don't know. But also philosophical and –

and really clever. And, um, I think it's going to be fun. I I'm excited about it. I mean, the script was amazing. And then on set, you kind of seeing it come to life and be like, wow, it's even surpassing the, uh, script. Wow. That's yeah. It'll be fun. I keep, I saw some pictures in the press this week of them and their roller skating outfits. Yeah.

The outfits are incredible. Unbelievable, right? Yeah, it's Jacqueline Duran is the costume designer who's, you know, she's like worked with Mike Lee for years and years since Topsy Turvy. But she's also doing all these giant movies now, like, you know, like Cinderella and these kind of big Disney productions. And she's like amazing. I love being around people like her. I love her so much. Like she's just so cool and so calm. And she's churning out these,

insane amounts, numbers of looks and they're all like incredible and she's just

It's like just one of those people that is just completely in control running that department. I love people like that. Let me ask you this without a spoiler alert. Are you playing G.I. Joe? My joke for a long time was telling people that I was playing Ken and nobody bought it. I want to play G.I. Joe with Kung Fu grip. That was my big toy. God, did I love my G.I. Joe. It was just an arm that did this. It's all it did. Yeah.

I was all about the Ninja Turtles. There was a run of Ninja Turtle toys that had abilities. You could press a button on their chest and their head would spin or duck into their body.

A lot of fun. That movie's out there for the making. There's got to be another one being made, though. There's got to be another one in the pipe. Yeah, exactly. That one, the original Ninja Turtles movie from the 90s, I can't wait to watch that with my son. That's one of those movies. Yeah, what is it? Tell me what you're watching. How old is he now? Two? No, he's just 10 months. Oh, Jesus. So we're not watching anything with him. Yeah. He's not watching anything. No. I don't know why I thought he was two. Yeah.

Well, can I give you my list? Go to us, please. Please, please. But now they're dated. My kids are 28 years old now. Well, that's okay. There's no era that I'm hanging out in. We still get together and snuggle and watch them, though, even though they are 22. That's lovely. You have a son? What do you have? I have two sons. Two boys? Yeah.

My oldest son is a lawyer in the investment business, and then my youngest is co-created, and it is starring with me in this new Netflix show that I'm doing. So I get to work with my youngest son, which is really cool. That's incredible, man. You must be so pleased with that and so proud. I'm knocking on wood every day. I'm the luckiest man. That's cool, man.

It goes, all the cliches, by the way, are true. It goes so fast, man. Like you just drink every second. Yeah. Every second. And like you, one of my greatest memories of having them as kids was like taking them with me on location and where we get to grow up as a family all over the world and see all the things we saw. And they spent time in London as little kids when I was there. And so here's my list of- Yeah, go on.

Number one, with a bullet, without a question, Land Before Time. Oh, yeah, but that's so intense. Yes, it is. It's really gnarly. See, you remember it. I do. Well, you know, there's a character in that that has my last name, Sarah.

That's right. Because triceratops is spelled like my last name. Ceratops. Did anybody recall you ceratops from that? Was that like a thing? No. No. Sarah. Oh, Sarah. But that movie, but that is a fantastic movie. But that one, man, it's frightening.

But here's my thing about this. I used to get in fights with other parents. They would encourage their kids to watch children's shows that were absolute trash. Yeah, no, I don't want to do that. No, I want to introduce taste right away. Right away. Yeah. Right away. And if it's a little, if they're having to punch above their weight emotionally a little bit. Sure. So be it. Yeah, I have a nightmare.

Have a nightmare. You're going to have plenty of them, kid. Learn it. Life is a nightmare. Life is a nightmare. Have a couple. Of dying dinosaur mothers. All that. I mean, Land Before Time is pretty much a true story. That's all it is. I mean, tell me that didn't have something like that had to have happened just like that. Such a good movie. It's great. Yeah.

No, I'm already like as far as the taste thing, I'm already, you know, I don't really want to make my guy listen to like bad kids music. You know, there's all this like kids songs that are my I'm like, why can't he get right away into the good stuff?

I don't see why we have to go this whole detour into bad music. Well, you just go and do, you know, what's the Beatles lullaby, which is great. Good night. Good night. Good night. Amazing song. Yeah, we'll start with the Beatles. That's accessible enough for a child. Kenny Loggins, Return to Pooh Corner.

is an amazing kid song. Beach boys have a lot of good, uh, kids. Beach boys have a lot of good ones. I mean, you could do like your, your, your mixtape and you, and you avoid all the Barney sing along. That's what we're doing. We're yeah. Yeah. You know, I just, yeah, I want to get right away into the good stuff.

But the other thing I'm really looking forward to watching with him when he's like kind of like maybe 10 is The Simpsons. Like watch the old classic Simpsons because that to me was like I learned a whole language of a whole sensibility, you know, that's still ingrained from like, you know, that was around the age I started watching it.

You got – and listen, when will you let them see Paws of Fury? Is that a professional segue to help you promote what we're here to – I mean really. Come on. This is why I am. That one's good for all ages. That's right. All ages will be in the theaters. That – I do look forward to the day when he'll watch something that has my voice in it. I have a niece and nephew. The nephew is about to turn three and she's about to turn six, my niece. And I think like this will be –

Like the first experience for them if they get to go watch this movie where they can kind of understand like that's you know me even if it doesn't quite make sense to them how it's all working like they can watch it and hear my voice and know that know that it's me.

I'm excited about that. I had to tell my nieces that I don't live inside of a television. Right. They were just like, oh, well, if we want to see Uncle Rob, he lives in that box. He lives in that box. They thought I lived in the box. Oh, that's sweet. Very sweet. Oh, the other thing is I think you were the perfect age to become a father, by the way.

the way. I know, look, everybody can be a father at any time, but like I did it at the exact same age you are. And I look back on it going, thank God I did it when I did, because the energy, I see a huge difference. My brother was almost 15 years later and just, you will experience your relationship with your son in a whole different way. It's, for me, the perfect nexus of

appropriate father generational time. Yeah. But also emotionally you're, you're, you're still super young man. That's a really good point. That's a really, yeah, that's great. I love that.

It's funny. I mean, it's funny when you – I mean, yeah, he's 10 months now and he's getting kind of playful and stuff. But you kind of tap into this like child energy that's been long dormant. Yeah, but I'm glad it's still there and I can remember – and I see so much of my little self in him too, which is amazing. Because it's kind of like, oh, he wants to do that. I totally understand how he feels. He wants to climb all over on everything. It's like, oh, right. Whitley tells you he wants to go to –

I want you to schlep him to Second City on the weekends. Oh, I'll totally do that. I mean, yeah, that does sound like a schlep, but he'll love it. He'll love it. You're a Beatles guy, aren't you? Yeah, I love the Beatles. Yeah, me too. I just got to go. I went to Abbey Road while I was here. Oh, I've never done it. Next time you're here, all you have to do is ask. I got to go in Studio 2, and there's these two pianos standing there. They're like the Beatles pianos. There's a Challen piano, it's called, and the Mrs. Mills piano.

which is like this kind of tack piano. They're on a million Beatles songs and you could just walk up to them and play them. Oh, it's so insane. I mean, it's kind of like you can like go and like run your fingers over the Mona Lisa. Like that's exactly what it's like. These things are accessible. You're, you're allowed to interact with them. It makes no sense. It's insane. So that was, yeah, I, I, I kind of wasn't even in my body during that experience. I kind of, I have pictures from that day, but I was, it was too much. I was,

And the guy, there were two, these two really great guys giving us the tour. And as soon as we started the tour, I started asking them about like one of the old desks.

that the Beatles, you know, first started recording on. And then they changed the whole nature of the whole tour because they were like, oh, you're actually like a huge nerd and we're going to like talk to you about all the gear. So we just talked about compressors and everything the whole time. My wife and my mom were there like with their eyes rolling back in their heads, but it was so much fun. Oh, God, what a great... Oh, it was magical. I mean, I think that to me was like the closest thing I could ever have to like a total religious experience because...

It's so immediate. It's like all that music really actually just happened in that room. That came to life right there. You're in the space where it happened with the instruments. It's just like so surreal. Totally surreal. Have you ever seen Paul or on tour? No. McCartney? Never been anywhere near him. No. He's the nicest man who's ever lived. Did you spend time with him?

I'll give you, and then we'll sign off with this. This is, I got, Lorne is friendly with everybody in the world. Right. And he invited me to a lunch with Paul. Amazing. And Paul was there with Stella. Music was playing. And at a certain point during lunch, Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da came on.

And I had that moment of like, oh my God, I'm looking at Paul McCartney and the Beatles are playing. I'm like, does he even notice? Does he care? Is it like- He's too used to it. Like, is it even on his radar? And there was this moment where I caught him singing along with the song. Yeah. And he looked up and saw that I saw it. And then he got like super embarrassed. Oh.

And then I smiled and then he smiled and the party was singing was, so if you want some fun, take old bloody blah-da. So he says, that's what I caught him singing. And he goes, you know, I don't even know what the lyric means. It was just an ad-lib. And his daughter says, dad, you know it meant take drugs. All right. I hope you survived. I was really fun though. I learned so much when I have friends.

People on the show who I've not really known, but I know their work so well. So anytime I have somebody like Michael on, I end up learning a ton and I feel like I've made a new friend. Maybe I should do a podcast about me wanting a new friend. Oh, wait a minute. God damn Conan O'Brien. He takes all the good ideas. Anyway, you got questions. I got answers. Let's hit the lowdown line. Hello. You've reached literally in our lowdown line.

where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep. Hey, Rob. This is Fred from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Has there ever been a project you've worked on that you were...

initially reluctant to accept, but later came to love, or alternatively, a project you worked on you were initially excited about and came to deeply regret being associated with? Love the podcast. Hear from you later. Fred, that's a genius question. Except there's a third option that you didn't mention. Very reluctant to be involved with, decide to do it,

And then end up ambivalent. That would be Youngblood. There are a lot of hockey players that love Youngblood. I haven't seen it in years. It may be better than I remember it. They asked me and asked me and asked me and asked me and threw money. They did everything. And I was like, I don't know.

I don't love, I mean, I like hockey fine. And I kept turning it down and turning it down and turning it down and turning it down. And finally I did it. And I had fun enough time doing it. And there are people who love it. And that's always great. But that was when I remember that I kind of was like, St. Elmo's Fire, I was kind of ambivalent about doing and ended up loving it and loving the movie. And the movie ends up being a really important movie to me and

to anybody who came up in that era, so I'm glad I did it. Those would really be the, would be the only, the only ones. I think particularly because it was a time when I was younger and maybe didn't have the kind of experience that I have now where I know that there are no guarantees with anything. So I go into every project with, you know, I think a pretty gimlet-eyed sense of

what the possible ceiling is in the best of times and what the, probably the worst outcome might be as well if it doesn't go well. But when you're a kid, you don't know that. So you're always trying to overthink stuff. Anyway, thanks for the question. Love Tulsa. That's where I shot The Outsiders. Keep listening.

We'll be back next week on Literally. Thank you so much for listening, as always. Don't forget to subscribe to the whole season because we have great guests coming up. And a five-star review, if you like what you heard on Apple, keeps the lights on here. And we love the support. Thank you, and I will see you all next week.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Rob Schulte, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. Our research is done by Alyssa Grahl. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Joanna Salatara for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. All of the music you hear is by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week on Literally with Rob Lowe.

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply.

Meet the next generation of podcast stars with Sirius XM's Listen Next program, presented by State Farm. As part of their mission to help voices be heard, State Farm teamed up with Sirius XM to uplift diverse and emerging creators. Tune in to Stars and Stars with Issa as host Issa Nakazawa dives into birth charts of her celeb guests. This is just the start of a new wave of podcasting. Visit statefarm.com to find out how we can help prepare for your future.

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.