Paul Reiser: Duck Decoy
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Speeds slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan and additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Yeah, it's really, you know, I'm going to get a lot of shit. Why did Rob Lowe take 30 years off? You know what? He did a podcast with Reiser.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Literally. Paul Reiser's here. I mean, he's been there. He's done that. Got a new comedy special coming out. First one in 30 years. And of course, you know, mad about you, the weasel and aliens, whiplash, diner. One of my heroes. Let's get at it. Welcome to the show.

It's exciting. It just, it's an exciting place to be. I hope you're excited. Personally, never been more excited. I can see you're riveted. I mean, I know it's an audio medium, but the level of excitement coming off you right now is. And I think they hear it. They, they feel it just over the microphone. Uh, yeah.

It's not the kind of excitement you see often. So when they do clock it, they go, this is going to be something special. They're like riser delivered. Yeah. And you've done a lot of these, I'm guessing hundreds. Maybe I've I'm, I'm closing in on it. It's been somebody I pointed out to me. It was almost four years. I've been doing this now. And is it fair to say that this feels, even though we've just begun, this will be among the best. I can tell already. Exactly. My point is, I judge, I judge people, by the way, just so you know, I judge, I judge.

I would hope so. I judge you by what you're wearing. Uh-huh. And I love that you have what looks to be a duck decoy over your shoulder. Just so you know, I'm in a hotel in New York, so this is not even, that's not my duck.

But I did have the duck flown in. I had it set dressed. I go, I'm doing Rob Lowe's thing in audio. I'd like a ballard if possible. Because I know Rob has an attention to detail. It's like no other. There's no other. I noticed everything. Also, the books behind you, I can't quite see what those are, but those are always very revealing, I find.

Let me ask you this. Have you, if you've been in hotels that have books, have you ever just taken one? Cause I'd like to read that and just swiped it. Is that fair? I haven't done it from hotel rooms, but I've done it on sets a ton. That's fine. So you're not going to notice what, what's what set were you on that had a book that you wanted? A couple of them. I remember there was a great one on parks and rec, and I think that was a, some sort of history book. And then, uh,

On 911 Lone Star, there was, I think it was the set of like a Ted Kaczynski Unabomber type person. Well, here I'm going to, yeah. Some really obscure, like, you know, like conspiracy theorist book that, you know, I had to, of course, go down a rabbit hole with. Well, here's, here's a dilemma I have. I'm going to show you something because I'm on my little iPad is resting. I had to raise it to head level, but in there,

is this. And this is, and that looks really cool. I'm going, yeah, but this is like a, you know, like a hundred dollar coffee table book. I don't think I can take it. It's New York. Is it pictures of New York or artwork of New York? It's all just tastes of New York flavors. Yeah. Pictures. It's all photos, but it's cool.

But in fact, while it's appealing, I don't want to drag it home. So there's my answer. I'm not going to steal it. Thank you for helping me, Rob. That's a doorway. That's too big. Also, there's an ottoman I had my eye on here. Just a perfect height. I can't believe that it's taking you 30 years. Yes. 30 count them, 30. But you're back with a comedy special. I am a slow and meticulous writer, Rob.

A lot of people will say, come on, the joke's ready. No, I'd say I need another decade. I need another 10 years to get this joke perfect. I understand that comedy school, it's where you want the joke to be so out of style before you tell it. Yeah, but you know what? I finally got that Jimmy Carter reference really working now. And that shit may have sailed, but oof, my Iran-Contra hunk is really tight. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. That whole Billy Carter riff, is that still in the body of the show? I think I had to make a cut there. That didn't fly. Well, I didn't do stand-up for a long time, not by design, but I got busy with other things and I kind of just year by year didn't get out there. And then when I finally got back 10 years ago or so, it took me a little while to get the muscle back.

And then I don't know, I'm sure you've spoken to other comics who will say a similar thing. There's a reluctance to do a special because then once you do, that material is gone. You can't do it. So I don't want to throw this out. And then I think, well, what are you doing? You're smart. You'll write another, you'll write more material. So I finally decided to do it. And you know what also happened? And this is, there's so many specials and so many comics and I'd be home and I don't watch a lot, but periodically I'll catch somebody

And I'll go, oh, that's funny. I just wrote a bit just like that. I'll have to throw mine out. And I'll see, I go, oh, that's like my thing. And I throw it out. And I thought, well, whoever gets the special out gets to claim that. So I thought I should probably put my flag down. So not that this is great, but this is what I came up with. So you're worried about joke theft.

No, I'm just worried about some sort of credibility. I don't want to go, he must have got that from watching Ellen's special. No, I was doing that for years. I just didn't make a big deal about it. I did it in Cleveland, but nobody knew. So there was a little bit of that, of sort of just...

you know, it's not really claiming the material. It could sound like I'm writing, you know, great novels here, but it's just, you want to be in the game. I thought, yeah, let me get it out. Also, what's weird is I started as a comic, but I've done

for so many years that's not stand-up, that now I go out and people go, wait, the guy from Stranger Things is going to try to be funny? I go, wow, I've been gone a long time. So I sort of needed to reintroduce myself to a wider audience. I'm super curious about that because I've always felt like, I remember doing talk shows and you'd be on with somebody who was a killer, like Robin Williams or somebody. And...

And they could literally just say a word and people would die of laughter. And if you're not known for comedy and you crush with a joke, sometimes people are like, is that funny? I don't know if that's funny. Wait a minute. Is he funny? Is that funny? It's an unfair advantage that known comedians get. It's like it's a golf. They get a couple of strokes on every hole because they're already known to be funny. So you come out.

People are like, he's the fucking prick from alien. Wow. I remember that fucking prick. He wanted to, he was selling out the human race. Feels, feels a little harsh, but you know what? I, uh, my favorite role of one of my favorite roles of yours ever. You say, you say, I say misunderstood. That's right. Um,

But, um, no, but I mean, I think, you know, from TV, it's like, okay, I was, I can be comedic, but they didn't know. It's a very specific thing to do standup. So people go, gee, I don't know if I want to go see the guy who did that to stand up. So anyway, so I felt like I needed to, to sort of claim my place.

Is it bona fides? You know what? I have the same struggle with that word. I'm afraid to use it. Bona fides, bona fides, bona fides. I don't know. I'm not even happy with the first part. Even bona. I can't get past that. So the whole phrase is trouble. How about just your bones? You made your bones in comedy. Yes. You made your bones there. Thank you. Nicely done. That's a good edit. That's some nice producerial bones there. By the way, there's a flip side to that. I remember way back in

In college, I remember, and I was already like a fan of comedy and I loved comedians. And I remember there was a professor in a history class or something, not a particularly funny guy, but he would say something just mildly funny and I would get a huge laugh because it was unexpected. Whoa, the history. So I thought, well, yeah, I guess if I call myself a professor, I can get away with shittier jokes. But so it works both ways. Because comedy, stand-up is the only...

It's the only art form that everybody you're performing for thinks they can do. You know, nobody watches Celine Dion and go, yeah, I can do that. It's like, no, you can't. Right. But a guy's being funny. You go, yeah, I'm funny. I'm funny too. It's like, well, probably not at the level that guy's doing, but you know, so everybody likes to either has a sense of humor or likes to believe they have a sense of humor. So yes, you have to work extra hard to,

establish your bona fides. Could you feel it the first couple times you're back on the road doing your thing? We're like, oh no, we love Mad About You. He was great in Whiplash. I've read the book, but like, you know. Let me tell you something. It's a very false bottom because I hadn't, it's like a trap door. I hadn't done it. And I said, well, there's no other way. You can't just wake up and be good. You got to

go to the gym. You got to put in the time and you got to really put in the elbow grease. So I call up the comedy club that I go to down in Hermosa Beach and I said, can I come down? And, uh, and you know, it wasn't advertised. It was like sort of just, it was an extra little treat for the audience. Here's a guy. You walk out and they go, Oh gee, I haven't seen this guy. He's been in his house for seven years. And, uh, so they're clapping and they're happy to see you. And then that guy's down in 10 seconds. Right. And they're looking at you as if to say,

And what is it you would like to tell us? Yeah. Okay. That's the part I don't have figured out yet. I just, you're happy to see me, right? So that's something. Okay. Yeah. But you know, it took a while. It took a while. I still knew what was funny, but I got muscle of, of writing, of thinking, of performing. It's like, you know, if you play ball and you take five years off,

You still know where the ball goes, but the muscles aren't triggering. So yeah, it was a solid year or more maybe before I felt like I could actually try to sell, have the nerve to sell a ticket and

put on a whole show. How did you, did you record the sets and go back and listen? Like what was the actual like nuts and bolts process of it? I would videotape it and I would go home and watch it. So it'll be like five minutes. And then, you know, in a month or so, you'd have seven minutes. So I could sit and watch it when I get home. And when I got up to the point of watching and doing an hour, I would come home and go, I can't watch me for an hour.

That's a lot of me. That's like, wow. I, that's a lot of shit in that one hour. I don't want to watch the whole thing. Um, but yeah. And then, you know, you, I try to be meticulous and go, ah, so if I cut out that word, that's going to be funnier. Yeah. Make a note, cut that word out. Then you get up on stage and you forget, what did I say I was going to do? So it changes. Even when you try to be scientific about it, I find it's, it's elusive, which is part of the fun. It's like, oh,

Oh, it was great yesterday. It didn't work today. Why? Not sure. Did you find, um, I mean, obviously the, any world is going to change in 30 years, but that said, yes. Uh, you know, obviously comedy, you know, I'm not bringing up a subject that is, uh, that I've uniquely thought about. It's really, really a different comedy world for sure. Yeah. But you know what? My experience was,

Actually, the exact opposite. I found it hadn't changed at all. Because I don't do stuff that's... I was never...

trying to push the envelope or make people uncomfortable or get them to think about that. He was like, I'm just going to tell you some funny shit that happened to me. And if I say it in the right way, you're going to laugh because you go, oh man, that sounds like my house. So I wasn't treading in that kind of territory. So that was, I was, that was never a problem for me. But what I did find and comforting was,

You know, I was going up at 60 and I said, it feels exactly the way it did when I went up the first time on audition night, I was 18. Wow. The excitement, nervousness, the thrill of a joke, you know, a line. I drive home and go, that line that I worked on today at work. Yeah, this was worth the two hours of driving. And I thought, you know, there's not a lot of things that 60 that feel as good as they did when you were 18. Right. But standup was the only one. And the other thing was,

For all the technological advances and whatever, you can't get better at stand-up any other way than just elbow grease. You got to go up every night and slog it out. You can't. There's no app. There's no Photoshop. There's no turbo charge. It's just manual labor. And I found that comforting. That would be an amazing thing to be able to walk onto. Yes. Like I wish walking onto a set was like it was when I was 18. That'd be amazing. Well, why is it different now?

You're not still in love going on a shot. Well, maybe I need to take 30 years off and then do it. And then I'll be like, I was, you know, everything becomes second nature because it's in your, it's so in your DNA. Yeah. It's really, you know, I'm going to get a lot of shit. Why did Rob Lowe take 30 years off? You know what? He did a podcast with riser and as an experiment, he decided, uh, yes. Yeah. It is.

But do you still, do you not still, are you still not able to summon up the excitement of a new project, a new film, a new crew and all the things that make walking on a set fun? I do, but they're different things. Sometimes it's a, it's a, it's a taste of what it used to be. Um, and it's still exciting or I wouldn't do it. Um, but what you just described would be amazing because it's the, it's like, I don't know if it's possible to have, um,

Total relaxation, open to the muse while at the same time being nervous and full of that first adrenaline. At least for me, it's like a little bit of a sacrifice on one of them, I think. Because I remember in the old days, it was like, I just would be nervous and I would be thinking and wondering and now I can kind of, I just let it.

let it happen. Yeah, but that's part of also the beauty of being older is a lot of the shit that we worried about, like, we learned to just let go. It's not helpful. Like, and also you go, I've done this. Where else can you go surfing and skiing?

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Could you write, I'm going to have a meeting with some people tomorrow night and I'm going to reference it again. I always reference Matt about you. I reference it all the time. Really? Yeah, I do. I love, I love the show. I'm flattered. And that was great. And you and Helen and I love Helen. You guys were amazing together and it's a great, great, great show. Like I want to do a show like that. I want to do a show like that. And I, and I wonder if,

where that show lives today. It's so funny because I was approached to come up with another show to be in by a studio guy that loved Mad About You. I go, well, it was very specific. And I was talking to somebody about this today. One of the things they said, well, you guys really got moments that were touching and sad. And how did you think to do that on a sitcom? It's supposed to be funny.

And our thing from the very beginning was, yes, it's a comedy. Yes, it's half hours cameras. And as we know what that person is, is what it looks like. But our sort of mission statement was, it's got to look more like real life than a TV show. Yes, it's a TV show, but the characters don't know they're in a TV show. So they have any thing you can do to make it even more like life will be to your advantage.

And invariably the shit that people remember, even if they don't know it, the things that they, that made them feel comfortable. Cause it was very, very simple in a way. I mean, it's not uncomplicated. It was a show about two people, a husband and a wife. And there's a lot of minutia and there's a lot of little things. And we said from the beginning, it's going to be about the little things. We'll get funny. The laughs will be big. Trust us. But

You know, when I pitched that, I said, and all the execs that I pitched said, okay, got it. I said, you know when you're at a party and you're at some social thing with your wife and you're talking and you're glad handing and you're chatting and you say goodnight, you get into the car, the moment that car door closes, that

That's the show. Like the minute you go, okay, why would you say that? I thought she was pregnant. She's not pregnant. Oh, well, you didn't tell me. I told you. So like, yes, the private conversations. So that was our mission statement. Make it feel like the camera's in the back of the car and we don't know it. I had heard that and I had forgotten it. And thank you for that. It's one of the great pitch ideas ever.

Of all time. And, and, and also explains, cause you know, I've, I've known Helen forever and ever and ever and ever. Right. Um, and I remember when she was cast in it going, um,

Helen is, it's like, she's funny, but like, that's a sit, that's a, it's a sitcom. And, you know, there is a style, right? And, and what you're describing would be doing away with what is known as the, you're not holding for laughs on your show because there's no audience. I remember we did a, was it, no, it wasn't that about you. It was another, um, well, there is an audience. To be honest, when we first did it, I actually wanted to do it as a single camp. And, um,

And as a sort of boneheaded concession, we actually shot the pilot not twice, maybe once and a half. After we shot it on a Friday night for an audience, we came back the next day and we did a couple of single count. I go, well, now you're just whacking off. But even though I'm a comedian and I want to get the laughs, it's like, yeah, but I know I don't want to hold for those. I don't want to be so conscious that I'm working for those laughs. But it took me a while to get comfortable with

stay in the moment, stay in the scene. But yes, there's 200 people there in the audience. But ultimately, that's not your audience. Your audience is somebody at home who's just looking at the little angle in the close-up. It's funny, if you watch All in the Family recently, there are close-ups where it's literally their head. There's nothing in the shot. An eyebrow and a lip curl and you go...

I'm totally invested. I don't need production value. I go, look at Archie take a pause. Oh my God. No one could hold for a laugh.

like carol o'connor it's it's and largely because you knew you knew those characters so well you go i know what he's thinking i know where he's going and this i know what she's gonna and that's what you want you know you for if you want people to come and spend a half hour with you every week or whatever it's like okay i want to be with these people i want to be in their heads i know you you're you did comiskey method uh great show lots of friends on that show and

Just spent some time with Chuck Lorre, and I was just asking him, I was like, where... But Mad About You was in the golden age of... The second golden age. The first golden age for me is All in the Family and sort of Norman Lear era of television. And then there was you, and then slightly, I think, towards the middle of it, towards the end, Friends. And there was so much... Frasier. There was so much great network television comedy. And other than...

You know, that, that, that, that lineup that I was lucky enough to be a part of, of community parks and rec, um, 30 rock the office, which is just murderers row. But guess what? Those weren't ever really hits. I don't want to like shock anybody. Yeah. Like they never, nobody ever watched 30 rock. And that's my favorite one. My favorite shows of all time. So my question is where did the audience go?

on network television for great funny stuff. Well, I just think the number of places you could go grew exponentially. So you have more networks and you have, you know, then all the streamers and you have places. So suddenly, you know, you could have a quote hit show with what 20 years ago would have been, oh, we're going to have to cancel that. You only have a million two. It's like, yeah. And my thing has always been, I, you know, I never,

I don't come up with a lot of ideas. I'm not one of these guys who just, here's another idea. It's like, I have one once in a while. And when I do, they're never in my head, well, this will be a huge hit, but it's like, but I'll bet you there's 7 million people who would like this. You know, I didn't think Mad About You was going to be huge. And it wasn't, you know, it wasn't Seinfeld. It wasn't Friends numbers. But I said, just let it run. Let it see. We're going to get seven. We'll get eight, whatever it is.

And then you want something else, go somewhere else. But there were just more choices. And I think, you know, I myself, like I said, I still wrestle with the idea of doing a multicam. And this, I got this invitation to write a show. I go, they really want a multicam. I go, let me just write it. And then how you shoot it, maybe you can shoot it creatively and make it in the format. Because, you know, Mad About You, there was nothing that we didn't.

There was nothing that I ever wanted to do that we couldn't do. You know, we got tender stuff. We got slow stuff. We got funny stuff. We got broad, silly shit. You know, we always say, I want to show about the little things. Then we have Jerry Lewis screaming in your face. So we'd have, you know, it's a virtual reality. And I was getting a massage from Christie Brinkley. And we go, it's the little things. You know, it's like, that's crazy. Yeah.

But, you know, I always used to talk about, anyway, I don't know. To answer your question, it's a good question. I don't know. I mean, I myself had this lovely success with the multicam, but my brain doesn't picture that. I mean, like The Office. I mean, when I picture a comedy, it looks like that. Or Modern Family. Not the documentary part, but just the...

you don't feel the audience in the studio you don't feel there's no laugh track at all there's no there's no there's no nobody there's not a all right duh i mean right yeah yeah yeah don't mash in the beginning they have i don't first couple of seasons they would have a laugh track they go are there in the mountains in korea there are people laughing in the mountains of korea where are these people and then finally they took it off did they take it off because my my memory of it

was always here's the thing i was young when that came out and when that fucking depressing opening would come on i was out i was out i'm sorry i'm out yeah i got suicide i was like no no not for me sorry i know i know i'm in the minority i know that's a what the kids would call a hot take i didn't i didn't watch i didn't watch a lot of it but um so i can't really answer that accurately i believe they started with the laugh track and then they took it off um

But that trigger that you're talking about, like I'm out, that's becoming a much faster trigger for me on things like the first minute of a movie. You know what? No. There's a child in peril. Not watching it. No. That kid is going to get hurt. I'm watching something else. Or there's blood. Done. Life's too short. Okay. So what you're describing is

a legitimate trigger of how it makes you feel. You haven't gotten as judgmental as I clearly have. I'm hoping to. Where I have, like, I can watch acting or something and go, nope, out. Sorry, done. Or writing, nope, out. I do that. I do that. Yeah. But, you know, that's because this is what we do. So,

Yeah, I can go, okay, I can tell the flavor of this if you're doing that kind of writing on page one. Also, sometimes reading a script, this is really inside baseball, but I'll read a script and go, if there's a typo on page one, I go, okay, this guy don't care. If you sent me a script and you didn't even check the spelling of the city, I don't think you're really paying attention to the details. If you can't spell Albuquerque. Which I can't, but take a minute, look it up. I'm not doing...

I am not doing the thing, but you know, conversely, not so we, well, I don't sound like you can sound however you want, but I do not want to sound like the old man yelling at the clouds when it goes the other way. And I see something that blows my mind. I almost want to start crying. And, and, and as Marlon Brand, I wanted to tear my teeth out. I want to, uh, shout to the rafters. And that my good friend was, um, whiplash, uh,

Let me tell you something. I mean, bro. So Whiplash was just genius on every level. He made a short. Do you know what that is? There was a short that he made as a demo. Yep. And they sent me that before they sent me a script. And literally what you just said, the opening shot was even better than in the movie. It was an opening shot. It was a snare drum with blood on it and a perspiration dripping onto it.

And the drum hits and splatters. And I went, I'm in. Whatever this is, that's beautifully lit. It was 13 minutes. It was basically the middle scene where he throws the J.K. Simmons, throws the chair. And then the demo of this, you know, he made the short to raise money for the movie. And it had J.K. Simmons, but it didn't have Miles Teller's mother. It was so good that I literally called my agent. I said, why are they making this into a feature? This is great.

And he went, that's not the movie. That was just a demo. And by the way, your part, the father is not even in that. So I said, right. Anyway, so it was so good on the opening shot that I said, somebody cares like you. He goes, this is going to be good. And he was right. And that's rare. You rarely, I don't know if I've ever read a script or seen something that's not great or not grabbing me in the beginning that turns out to be great.

Maybe it's because I shut it off too quickly. Because of the typos. Yeah, but it's like, I don't know.

I read a lot of books these days and I go, I'm going to give it 100 pages. And my friend goes, 100? You stick with it for 100? You got to. If it's a book, you got to give it 100, right? Yeah, I get it. I have a friend who's a publisher. He goes, 25. You give it 20. Do you know what I'm saying? It sounds like, what was it, in The Irishman? The scene with Pacino. And he comes in late. He goes, 10 minutes. You got to be 15 for traffic. I'm allowing for traffic.

10. You come 10. That's what we're doing now. Okay, so let's establish the riser low rule. Yes. A book is 100 pages? I'm becoming flexible. I'm getting a little more impatient. Like I go 75, but yeah. Also because I want to be able, I want to put it on the pile and say that I finished it. I don't feel I can say it at 75. So yeah, let's say 100. Let's say 100.

Oh, wait, wait, hang on. You've thrown an interesting side conversation in. So, because I've wondered this. When people say, I've read it, it doesn't mean they've read the entire book, does it? Right. Well, it should. But I will answer others. I go, you know, I started it, never finished it. Unless I'm talking to the author, then I just stay with it. But a lot of times people will reference a movie and they'll go, you ever see so-and-so? And I'm like, well,

I know. And I saw enough. I'm not sure how detailed your question is going to be. So, and sometimes I, I get small and I went, okay, I didn't really see. How about, how about, um, they say, have you seen whatever the big hit is? But frankly, I'm just going to say it. I'm just gonna say it right here. Go ahead. Stranger things. Yeah. I know. I know. I loved it.

without never seen it never seen it never seen it but i know i but i know i loved it and i'm not kidding i know that sounds insane i know i loved it uh yeah i think by the way but but i got i got i had a special relationship high school that i never slept with but i'm i'm sure i loved it in my that's what i'm saying right why is it any different uh well one i'm not going to see that girl anymore at the party and it's not going to come up no um

But Stranger Things, you know, you can be in things that are great and have fun, but it's not your cup of tea. And so Stranger Things, right? So Stranger Things, I never, is not my type of show. And I mean, I've shared this with the Duffer Brothers and, and,

But in that case, I mean, I was really lucky. My son had told me about it like the minute it came out. So I saw a little of it. And the next day I got a call from the Duffer brothers want to meet you. Oh, wow. That's well, that's amazing. You want me? Yeah. So, and it's when I said to my son, when you have kids, you'll appreciate it. I said, so I would have, even without being in it, I would have watched the first season just to see what all the fuss was about. I wouldn't have necessarily gone back because I get it. It's not my thing. So,

So I was in the second season when I started. So I said to my son, just talk. I said, you know,

I said, I would have watched the first season just to see it. But I don't, to be honest, I don't know if I would have watched the second season. And my son, without any sense of irony, he was like 16 at the time. He said, yeah, to be honest, dad, I would have enjoyed season two more if you were not in it. Amazing. I said, asshole. I use his Hebrew name. I said, asshole, I can hear you when you say that. So he goes, no, I just, you threw me. You took me out of it. I went, all right. Can your kids watch things you're in?

No. No. No. The only things they watch of mine are things that have been pummeled into them by their friends. Uh, yeah. So, and it's usually the comedies. Like, they're not watching, but they're not watching like the West Wing. But they'll be watching Austin Powers. Tommy, Tommy Boy, Austin Powers, you know. Okay. It's that kind of stuff. Yeah.

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Yeah, apparently there's a guy in Stranger Things that stole his look from me in St. Elmo's Fire, and I've never gotten over it, frankly. Oh, is that the guy with the hair? Yeah, the guy with the hair. Hello. Yeah. That's my hair. You can show them, by the way. Your Honor, I can prove that that's my hair. I'm just saying visual theft is a barrier of entry for me. It's something that's not right, and you should stand up for your rights. Okay, we got to talk about Diner.

I'm amazing. Amazing, amazing movie. I remember seeing it. Like, I feel like I've saw it three times in the theater and, uh, Barry Levinson on the beginning of one of the great runs of history in history. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Here's the thing that freaks me out about it. And I got, it's been a while. So Kevin Bacon in it, obviously. Yes. Yes. But yet he was also an animal house. And I'm, I always struggle with like animals.

Is he 100 years old and hasn't changed? How was he in Animal House? Animal House was only, how many years? Three, four, five years before Diner. And he was very young. But he also, like you, there's a youthfulness about him. We're the same. He's younger than me. He was only like 22, 23 when he did Diner, which is right. We were playing high school kids. And Mickey Rourke?

Mickey Ward looks different now. He has gone a different way. He's gone a different route. Yeah. Was Body Heat before or after Diner for Mickey? I keep always trying to remember that. I think it was after. He's so good in it. Yeah, he was great. I mean, look, Mickey's had a great career, but to me, Diner is the one. But that was in Body Heat. That was one of those things where...

you know, every act and go, that's how you can be memorable. Just be fucking great in your six minutes of screen time or maybe less. That's right. Like you go, who's that? I think that was first. I think he got cast out of that. And that's how he got diner. Did he have that? Because around that time we were all auditioning for, and I think it's probably why I saw a diner. Cause there were, you know, it was a, a guy's,

young guys ensemble and we were, um, probably auditioning for a reading the outsiders. Right. So we were all kind of going to school in those movies. And I just remember that Mickey was at that time considered like kind of the reincarnation of James Dean. Was that the vibe on the set or was he just another one of the actors? No, he had, he was, you know, one step removed. He was a different, very intense kind of guy.

I remember one time, the only time we really hung, we shot in Baltimore. On weekends, sometimes we'd go up to New York

And one time I happened to be taking the train back with him. It was the only time we were chatting and he was really supportive and helpful. And like, you know, I had not, that was the first, that was the first job I ever had. I had never been in anything. So, and I had taken an acting class or two, but I hadn't been in much. And I remember he was just giving me some really smart, savvy, generous pointers. I thought, Oh, there's a side of him I didn't see. Cause he was, yeah, he was a rougher around the edges than us. And, and, uh, I don't know that he was hanging out.

But it's funny that, you know, those guys, we didn't, we stayed friends for a little bit and then we, you know, diverged and got married. And I recently, you know, gotten to be very close with Danny Stern and Kevin Bacon and Gutenberg as well. And,

Tim Daly lives on the East Coast. I don't see him much. But it's interesting. We go, gosh, you know, it's 40 plus years. It's a long time. It's insane. I mean, do you still have connections with the guys that you started with? It's kind of the same thing. It's, you know, and it's like,

Between getting married, getting sober, that's a big delineator. How many years are you sober now? 33. Oh, geez. Okay. So, you know, and your life, look, your life changes when you get married, your life changes when you get sober, and then I live in Santa Barbara. But whenever I see anybody from that era, it's like people, I don't want to say...

I don't want to say went to war, but how it served with. Yeah. Or it's your fraternity brothers and your sisters. Yeah, I feel that way with my comedy buddies. And even guys that I wasn't tight with, but we were all hanging out around the bar hoping to get on at 1230 at night. And it's like, I'll see them, and I haven't seen a guy for eight years, 10 years. Hey, hey, hey. And we'll just do the same running joke from 1981. It's like, wow, that joke is still just in there.

in the air waiting for us to get together to do it. But yeah, and the diner guys too. I mean, we had, I guess a couple of years ago, there was a 40th anniversary screening and event here in LA. And we all went to dinner, Kevin and Tim and Daly and Gutenberg and myself. And just being in that, we hadn't been all together, the four of us. And we were just remembering shit like,

you know, this crazy extra, you know, the funny guy in the hair department. It's like, wow, these memories have not been shaken loose. And we, it was the first big, for me, it was my first job, but it was the first big one for all of that. So that you do, you know, as you say, you served together and you had, you went through that training together, that, that experience together. Um, and you keep that with you. It's really, it's really sweet. Makes life rich to take those memories forward.

Do you have any Jim Cameron memories? No, you know, he's such an intense guy. And there's always when people like to talk shit. You know, I was...

I never saw anything bad. I, he was just so clearly dedicated and so clearly knows what he's doing that like, you know, if he's going to be a little intense, God bless him. You know, look what he's done. Look what he, you know, gee, this technology, this technology doesn't exist. I'll invent it. Hold on. Like what? I'll invent the fucking camera that I need. Like, yeah, he's, I'm a huge, I've, I've never worked with Jim, but we've, we've spent a lot of time together. Uh,

through various things over the years because Bill Paxton, who was in the movie with you, who, I mean, isn't that, isn't Aliens more game over, man? I think that's one of Bill's most famous. Yeah, indelible. And I don't even know if that was in the script, but it was such, if it was, he certainly put his infant on it. No, but Jim Cameron, you know, I was so,

uh surprised and uh delighted to be invited to that particular party it's like i have no business being in this kind of movie how did he how did he catch such brilliant casting though regular freaking casting uh you know i remember i was my my wife now but she had just moved out we weren't married yet she just moved out from the east coast and we renting a house we're literally moving

in the midst of that day moving and i got a call you got to go meet jim cameron and i remember going on to the moving truck to find the box with pants because i didn't have pants on that was when i was wearing shorts i went i need long pants no that's no that's books so pulling shit off the moving truck to go down the box and meet jim cameron and um i i read the script and

And it was, that was another one on page one. You go, and you knew it was going to be good. Alien was brilliant. The first one and Terminator was brilliant. So I said, Jim Cameron doing this one, it's going to be great. And then you read it. It was literally breathtaking. I'm like turning pages. Oh, which is hard to do on page. Yeah. And, uh,

I don't even remember if I auditioned or just chatted with him, but my understanding is that he was just looking for some guy that might camouflage the fact that he's going to be, you know, a corporate weasel. And, you know, so went with somebody that leans towards comedy or towards levity at least.

And I don't know how successful that is because people saw me. I was like the guest star in Star Trek. What's wrong with this picture? This guy don't belong here. He's going to be dead in 22 minutes, this guy. So I don't know how much that worked. I can tell you it worked great. Good. Yeah. You know what I had? I was remembering a really interesting act. The shooting schedule was such that I didn't have any lines for the first two weeks. I was in stuff.

But I'd be in the background and I went, I could have been frustrated, but it was actually a really great education. It's like, what are you doing in the scene? If you're not saying something, especially for me as a verbal guy, it's like, you know, you're not going to be twirling your mustache. So how do you be basically still, but true. You don't have to be interesting. You don't have to do anything, but what would make sense? I thought, wow, that's challenging exercise. You don't have to be a master at that.

Watch Midnight Run and watch Charles Grodin. Watch him stand still and you go, what the fuck is he doing? He's not doing anything and he's riveting.

It was like, wow, that was a great, great acting lesson there. Yeah. The power of stillness is a very, very big deal. That's your next book. The power of stillness. Particularly on stage. Yes. To be able to walk out on stage and stand there. Well, that takes a lot of muscle control and discipline too. Yeah, right? How long do you think, I mean, all seriousness, you can walk up to a mic at an open, in your show and just walk out and look at people.

Just not move and just look around for a while. I'll bet you that experience would be un-fucking-believable. You know what? There'd be laughs. There'd be drama. There'd be a whole journey if you could stick it out. My thing, I just have a rhythm that I walk just because out of whatever nervousness or energy, whatever.

And a year or so ago, I pulled a calf muscle. I ripped a calf muscle. And I actually had a cast on, but it's like, or a thing on. And I took it off for the show because it looked pathetic, but I couldn't walk. So that was my exercise. I just did the whole show standing there. And it was life-changing. I was like, oh, now find the power in the words. Actually, you think you're energizing by moving. You're actually distracting. It's actually more powerful. That was...

And I wouldn't have done it if I wasn't forced to because of my stupid leg. But it was, you're absolutely right. Being still can be the force you need. You're also an author. Author, author. You're an author. You have three or four books, I think. I wrote three or four books. Yeah, well, you know, I wrote three books and then a little, what do they call them? An Amazon short thing. I just did a book. Are you friends with Mike McDonald up in Santa Barbara? Oh, oh, thank you. Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop.

okay. Thank you. I knew there was a, okay. So Michael McDonald, I bought his former house in Santa Barbara and he, he recorded in, he had a recording studio in the back of it. Um,

I'm a massive fan of his. How the hell did you guys come to write the book? Is it called What a Fool Believes? Is that what it's called? Yeah, which he didn't want to do. I said, no, that's got to be the name. I'm buying that in two seconds. That sounds amazing. Tell me about that. So I'm like you. I was a big fan of his. I never knew anything about him. He's kind of this

flies under the radar. He's all about the music and it's not about him putting his, his personality out there. And so like, but anyway, so we got, we met just through a fluke. I went to a kind of cool private, like a event at somebody's house. They happened to be down the street from my house.

And I walk in and Mike McDonald's playing like he was the hired entertainment. I thought, this guy in this house is doing very well. That's his soundtrack is Michael McDonald live in his house. Jesus. And so it was a small enough intimate room. I went over, I said, no, introduce myself. I was a big fan and he knew me. And in a spike of moxie and balls, I said, you know, I live 40 feet away and I play piano. I said, I got a room with two pianos.

And everybody said, why do you have two pianos? In case this ever comes up.

Would you like to come over and jam? He goes, yeah, man, sure. I went, okay. So we came over and we played for like three hours. We were just playing Beatles and Motowns and Doobies and Michael McDonald songs. And we became friends. So, and over the years, I would ask him, this was like 15 years ago, and I would just ask him shit because I never understood his career. I was like, how can you be in the Doobie Brothers and Steely Dan? It's like, you can't play for the Cubs and the Yankees. You got to pick one.

So I would ask him this list and I jokingly said, you should write a book, write a book so I don't have to call you all the time. He said, you know, I've been approached about it. I don't know. I don't know if I have a story. I go, do you have a story? He said, but I don't know how to write a book. I said, well, I do. I said, guess what? And it was COVID. It was March, 2020. I said, we got no jobs. We're not going anywhere. So we just did this. We Zoomed for like a month and I would ask him shit, just like we're doing. And I would record it and then I would transcribe it.

And we had, you know, suddenly 400 pages of shit. And I would just, you know, it was all his words. And I just put it together in chronological. And then we'd go through it. And it was really interesting for me. A, I really wanted to read the book. That's the only reason I wanted him to write it. I said, you don't have to put my name on it. I just want to read it. But it was interesting for me to create something or help create something for which I was not the end user. I said, I'm not, this is you. So anything that you, you know, and he would say,

I don't know if I should say this. I go, say it. And then you'll take it out. We're not live. This is a book. We'll take it. So over, you know, the course on and off, he was touring on and off for a couple of years. It would come together and he would, he would go deeper. And I had to push him a couple of places. Like, you know, he was some places he was so forthcoming, you know, about his sobriety and his journey with that. He was really, uh, you know, beautifully eloquent and, and, and,

open-hearted i mean it's some of the most moving past i think the most moving stuff in the book he talks about it and he's so modest you know he's so the question i kept trying to dig at and i couldn't because you can't because i want to go how the fuck are you saying so well what is that you know it's like saying like uh ryan gosling how'd you get good looking like that what what what's this yeah what do you want that's just how it happened so

And I would ask him, do you do anything now? You just fucking wake up, you're sitting in the shower, it sounds like that already? Yeah. So...

So it was a great experience. And when it was all done, I was really happy to answer all my questions. And he was happy because he actually, he went from, I don't know if I have a story worth telling to, oh, you know what? Now I understand my life. Because he had never really done that. You know, trace his, and he talked about his parents and his very specific and poetic, very touching stories. All the way, you know, he played with everybody. You know, Quincy Jones, Ray Charles, and everybody.

That's how he got the, I think he got the, it's my understanding. You wrote the books. I'll find out. But that he ended up in the Doobie brothers because they needed a piano player and he was a prodigy. Jeff Baxter had played with him in Steely Dan. He got Steely Dan because he did when he was out here and he talks about, you know, in early seventies, you pick up bands and you just, you get a bass player, a good thing. And you play this party. And he did a date for some, for a rap party, some show at a Christmas Eve rap party.

And a drummer, up-and-coming drummer, Jeff Porcaro, was at the gig. Never met him. And a year later, Jeff says, hey, man, I'm with Steely Dan, and they need a keyboard player, maybe a backup singer. Would you like to audition? He goes, yeah.

He said, when? And Jeff goes, can you get down here now? He goes, fuck me. And so he said, I throw my Wurlitzer into my Pinto and I drive down. He said, and he goes, usually auditions, you know, two or three songs, they tell you thank you or no thank you. He said, nobody said anything. And then he said, and Walter Becker, Don Fagan, they just keep teaching me songs. He said, after about six hours, I think,

I guess I'm in the band. Nobody's asking me to leave. And the next day, he's on tour. So that's how Steely Dan happened. Fucking accident. Accident, a year later, leads to Doobies. And then that leads to him becoming Michael McDonald. But Prodigy, he was at 14.

At 14, he was in a band of 19 and 20 year olds, a 13 piece band in St. Louis where he grew up. Horns and rhythm sections. At 14, I was learning to pee standing up. But he was with a 14 piece band.

Yeah, he's something. And there's nicer guys there. So yeah, you'll enjoy it. It's a great read. Your treadmill or whatever on a walk. I did, I interviewed Kenny Loggins recently for the podcast. And he was super... I read Kenny's book. Yeah, it's a great book and super interesting about Michael because that's the other thing I think about. That's the other... We have Steely Dan, we have Doobie Brothers, but then we have everything he did with Kenny, which is...

There's collaboration. I sort of pushed them. I said, you got to do a discography. I said, because there's so many things. And there was a period where, and he makes fun of it in the book, where people said, we've had enough of Michael McDonald. He's been on everybody's track. He makes everybody else sound good. I'm like, oh, what's that behind him? Is it a cloud? No, that's Michael McDonald singing behind you.

That'll do it. Have you seen the famous, you've obviously seen the famous, I think it's SCTV. Yeah. Rick Moranis. Rick Moranis doing Michael McDonald running back and forth to the microphone. It's one of the greatest things. Which I encourage. I said, you gotta, you gotta acknowledge that in the book. Cause everybody's going to go, did he see that? Um, yeah, but he has a great sense of humor and, you know, and, uh, you know, he, he,

he's sometimes self-deprecating to a fault. He said, "Yeah, I was maybe going to that well a little too often." But everybody said, "Would you like to come sing with me?" He went, "Yeah." But as a fan too, he loved getting to work with new singers, songwriters. He talks about that early period in the '70s, which you and I were too young. You certainly were too young for it. But when all these musicians from all over the world just ended up in LA or from the States, anyway, would end up in LA,

And they would just work together in these little pickup bands and they became Toto and they became Doobies. And it's like, it was happening, you know, and he's singing backup and he's in this, you know, talks about being in the studio and,

There's John Lennon next door working with Phil Spector. And there's Joni Mitchell. There's Elton John. You are a man of many, many stories, many different lives. I'm super psyched. The special is November 19th on wherever you can buy and rent shit. Somebody said, where can we find your show? I said, Al Jazeera. It's not on every channel. But yes, it's Life, Death, and Rice Pudding.

And then if I can, can I take a moment to plug something else? I don't want to be finished. Of course. I wrote a movie that I'm in with Colin Meany, who is a brilliant actor, and it's called The Problem with People. And that's also on iTunes and Amazon and whatever. And that was a movie that I wrote that I didn't try. I was pushing uphill for years to make in Ireland.

And it came out really well. So it's a small little indie. So there's nobody pushing it except for me going door to door saying, please go check out this movie because it's really sweet. I will. And everybody listening will as well. That's all I would ask. This was fun. I really, I really appreciate it. This was awesome. Thank you, man. Let's do it again. What are you doing tomorrow? Tomorrow. Tomorrow at three o'clock. Good. See you then. Okay. Bye brother.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar and research by Alyssa Grau. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant.

Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.

When you choose to earn your degree online from Southern New Hampshire University, you're saying yes to new opportunities and to new adventures. You're saying yes to something big, something you've always wanted to do. If earning your degree is one of your goals this new year, SNHU can help you get there. With low online tuition, no set class times, and multiple term starts per year, you can set the pace that works for you and save money along the way. Visit snhu.edu today to get started.