Phil Rosenthal: We have the VHS!
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Hello, everybody. Welcome to Literally. It is me. It is. It's me. There's no denying it. It's Rob Lowe. Phil Rosenthal is joining us today. For those of you who need to know, Phil created Everybody Loves Raymond. It was a great show. There's no denying it. I think it had 29 Emmy nominations at one point. But more recently, he is literally the new Anthony Bourdain.

He's got books and specials and podcasts devoted to his travels around the world and his obsession with food. Somebody Feed Phil is on Netflix right now. I think it's its sixth season. And he's just an all-around really great, sweet guy. I always love Phil. I don't get to see him as much as I'd love, but this is a perfect excuse to catch up with each other.

And where are you at the moment? Are you still in L.A.? I'm in Hancock Park. That's where I live in the middle of L.A. And I've been here a long time. I moved to L.A. in 1989. Jesus. 1989. Yes, I'm old.

And I love it here. I'm never going back to New York. I mean, to live, I love it very much. I'm always going to be a New Yorker, but I love it here now. Where of all the places that you've traveled for, and as you say, you are the Anthony Bourdain who's afraid of everything, which made me laugh. That's how I sold the show. That was the only line. They bought it from one line. Anthony Bourdain, if he was afraid of everything. If he was afraid of everything. Yes. Yes.

It's amazing. Because you get who I am, I guess. Yes. And you get what the show's going to be. It's the greatest life ever that you've carved out for yourself. You get to indulge all your passion, travel, food, people. The five values, family, friends, travel, food, laughs.

That's the show. And that's what I like. And I also like, I happen to love show business. I love making a show. I don't like the business part of show business, but I like the show part. Out of all of the places that you have traveled, what

was the most surprising place. Oh. Where you went, oh, because I've had that. I've had where I've gotten on a plane and traveled for a billion hours and gotten off and go, I feel like I'm in Ventura. I could have just got, that's what, that's what, that's what Australia is. Australia is, you travel for flipping ever to get there and you get off the plane and you go, oh, this is Oxnard, but,

Probably what it was like 30 years ago. By the way, I love Australia. If I had to live in any other country in the world, it would be Australia. But it is California. I loved it too. I've only been to Sydney, but I loved it. I was there about 10, 12 years ago. But I haven't been to New Zealand yet. Have you? Only to change planes, unfortunately. I've flown over it. Because everyone, you know, there were so many Americans who were buying second homes there that they said enough already with you people. Yeah.

So they stopped that. So we can't move there even if we want to. But I have to see it. It's like James Cameron has a place there. So we can go stay with him? We can go stay with James Cameron. I'm going to call James Cameron up. Okay. Yeah, I want to ski there. See, that's the thing. You don't do any of the—how do I put this without insulting you? And I'm not insulting you. But it's not like you're going to do— No, I'm already insulted by the pause. Yeah, the pause wasn't good. I admit it.

I know what you're saying. You don't have to say it. Let me say it. You don't do anything that you could possibly get hurt doing. That's right.

That's me. I am not skiing. I'm not playing basketball. I'm not, you know, my brother who's five years younger than me, he was playing pickleball the other day and tore his Achilles tendon. Oh, that's the worst injury. Let me look. There's a lot of injuries, but I'm knocking on everything I can. I'm not even going to answer that question because I'm so. Yes. What would be the great Yiddish thing we would say here? There's got to be a great one, right? We're like, you don't need the suras, the trouble.

Or the kinahura. The kinahura is the jinx. The jinx, yes. You don't want to put the jinx on it. My old manager, Bernie Brillstein, would always say, don't put a kinahura on it, kid. Poo, poo, poo. You know, scare away the evil spirits.

Anyway, I don't do that. First of all, I'm anti-pain in any form. And second, I don't have time to recover. He sleeps with a boot now every night for six weeks and has to get one of those wheelie things where you put your knee up on it and go around like you're a deranged scooter guy. Yeah, that's a bad injury. Well, don't get me started on pickleball. I have a whole thing on that. I feel like

Pickleball. When I see people playing pickleball, I feel the same way I feel when I see a grown man skateboarding down the street. That's funny. But it's a big fad now, right? People are doing it. Play tennis. Pick up a tennis racket. Come on. But you could tear your Achilles tendon that way too or basketball. I think after a certain age, like I went to the doctor once because I would run.

And he says, hey, any aches or pains? You know, just a checkup. And I say, yeah, you know, my hips and lower back hurt a little bit after I run. He goes, how old are you? I was like 52 at the time. He goes, you've run enough. Right. Isn't that interesting? Right. So now I work out. I do work out. I do my weights and I do my, you know, safe. You know what's funny? I was thinking about you. I was thinking about you, too. Well, I have a story about you. You go first. Mine isn't really a great story, but it's it's just.

It's one of those, you know, when you think about somebody and you have a memory that just sticks with you. I remember coming to talk to you when you had your office at Warner Brothers. You were still making Everybody Loves Raymond. And we were hanging out in your office. And this is the greatest thing of like dating when it was. You had what I thought was the most ginormous screen on your computer. And I was blown away that you had all of your music there.

on the screen. That's how, how, what era this was. I was like, wait a minute. Like I still had like CDs in my car and you had, so like the late nineties, early two thousands, that would have been, yeah, this was early too. I figured it was probably 2000, probably 2000. And I just couldn't believe, I thought you were the most high tech person I had ever met in my life.

This is hilarious because no one has ever said that about me. If anything, you should have seen me with your tech guys just two minutes ago trying to record this Zoom. What is your story? Also from the year 2000. Now, I think like you, big fan of Mr. Bruce Springsteen. Oh, yes. Yes.

And I tell this story to people. And I had a friend who said, you know, he's opening the Staples Center. And this was that concert. It was the year 2000. First night of Staples Center being open, Bruce Springsteen is playing.

And she says to me, come downstairs after and I'll introduce you to Bruce Springsteen. I'm like, what? Are you kidding? And I can't even, I mean, I don't know if you remember the concert itself. It was one of his worst concerts, not because of him, but because the sound had not been set yet in the stadium, in the arena. Oh, I remember. I remember. So does Bruce, by the way. Yeah. Acoustically horrible. And I think he never played there again because not only was it bad, but also-

I think it was the first time he ever saw people in suites. Yes. In an arena. And he literally said, people, if you want to enjoy the rock and roll show, you got to come out of your suites. That's right. Right. So, oh, oh, he doesn't. This is the first crowd I think he's ever not liked. Yeah. He was not happy that night.

Not happy. Okay. But here's the point of the story. I go downstairs. I'm a nervous wreck. I'm going to meet my idol. I mean, this is my guy. And I run into, oh, Rob Lowe, my friend. Hi, Rob. How are you doing? Rob says, Phil, how are you? Great to see you. We hug and everything. Everything's great.

He says, what? You said, what are you doing here? I say, I'm going to meet Bruce. He goes, you haven't met him yet, says Rob Lowe. And you pull me over. And I go, no, no, no, no. But you pull me over to your friend, Bruce Springsteen. And you say, Bruce, have you met my friend Phil? He created Everybody Loves Raymond. And Bruce Springsteen says, what's that?

And I look at you, Rob, as if to say, thank you. This is exactly how I wanted it to go.

And you turned into Woody Allen. Backtracking. Well, it's a very popular show. It's like a big show on the CBS and then they'll create the show. It's like number one. It's been nominated for 29 Emmys. And Bruce Springsteen, this is to his credit. What a guy, right? Very fast. He goes, well, now I'm going to watch because I know the guy.

And I said, oh, that's okay, Bruce. You don't have to watch. I'll still buy the records. Oh, my God. And then we took a picture. But that was my, you know, funny way to meet Bruce. And it's your fault. What's that? I can see Bruce. What's that? Right. I remember that show vividly because it was amazing.

That was also the show. I took Aaron Sorkin to the show and. Oh, I didn't see him down. Well, that's yes. Cause I turned around halfway the show and he was gone. You know, Aaron is one of those people that gets social anxiety. And is that what it is? Yeah. Because I had dinner with him once. He was on the same lot. He was at Warner brothers too. We were all there. Right. That's probably how we met. Right. Yeah. And, and we went to dinner. We were fans of each other's work and, and,

halfway through dinner he goes i gotta get home i'm like what is it something i said no i just gotta i gotta get home i'm sorry and he leaves and what i realized was it was gonna be it was coming up on on uh time for west wing to be live on the air and i think he wanted to get home and see it live that would also make sense right yeah i i once saw aaron um we were at uh

One of our first times in the Oval Office with then President Bill Clinton, and we're going to get to that story in a minute. Oh, yeah. And Bill Clinton was in the middle of pitching ideas for episodes. Yeah. Yeah.

And Aaron goes, oh, that sounds great. And you're a very busy man and I got to go. And Aaron left. Yes. Yes. Aaron. So I shouldn't take it personally. The president of the United States or Bruce Springsteen in the middle of Thunder Road. He's when a man's got to go, he's got to go. Wow. I'm a little impressed. But you, my fine feathered friend, are legendary talking about Bill Clinton.

in the 2000 era for the White House Correspondents Dinner film. We were there the same night. Yes, that's right. And didn't you direct it? I did. I co-wrote it. I had been writing for Clinton all eight years of the presidency for the speeches that he needed humor. So you get, having played a speechwriter, don't you know, myself, you get the speech sent to you

And then you've got to figure out where it would be appropriate to punch it up. Right? Right. And I had a friend there who would also get called at this time, a guy named Mark Katz. And he would get called and then he would call me. And they would send me actually humorous speeches, the gridiron dinner, the radio and TV dinner, and the granddaddy, the White House correspondents. That's right. That's the big one. That's the big one.

But the gridiron dinner is fun, too. And there's like a humor season in Washington. Now it's year round. And by the way, the gridiron dinner actually is they say that's the elite, really super fun, funny one. They say I've never been to it, but that's what they say. Because I don't think it's televised. So it's not kind of it's more like anything goes there. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And it's almost like a Friars Club. It's going to be a lot rougher with the humor. You could be a lot rougher. And that was fun to write. But I'm at the time I'm writing over, over fax and, and, and, and phone, you know, an email. And I remember getting a call early on from Mark Katz. The president doesn't know how to say this line. Like what's the delivery. So amazing.

It was about, remember he was asked on MTV about whether he wears boxers or briefs. Yeah, sure. So we had a joke about that. And I said, well, he should be as serious about this as if he's reading off the names of the war dead. You know? That's such a great. And so I was indirectly directing him.

For that joke. And it's pretty heady when you turn on the TV and you see the president of freaking United States when it used to mean something. Right. Saying your line the way you told him to say it. I was like, holy moly. So now, you know, I do this for all eight years and I keep pitching this thing.

For the White House Correspondents Dinner, I keep pitching, let's do a funny video. Let's do a video. And they tell me, the White House, that president doesn't have time to make a video. He's the president. Yes. Until the last year, year 2000. Then he had time. And so my little video is about him talking.

Having too much time on his hands. And people can see this on YouTube. It's called The Final Days. By the way, it's legendary. It crushed it. And the image that I remember most was him riding the bicycle through the old executive office building. Yes, that was really fun to do. They gave me a half hour to film with him. This is how the White House has no idea about production.

So I do a half hour with the president and I film maybe three bits out of 20. Right. And they go, OK, that's it. I'm like, I'm not done. They said, you're done, kid. This is the president. But Clinton had a good time. And so he gave me another half hour two days later.

And this is the week of the thing. The thing is Saturday. And I'm talking about Monday and Wednesday. I got half hour here, half hour there. And I'm still not done after Wednesday. And I tell Mr. President, now we're, I guess, buddies. I say, you know, if you'd like to finish it, we could really do a good job if I had one more half hour. He goes, I'll see what I can do. Saturday morning, the morning of the thing. No. I get one more half hour with him. So a total of 90 minutes to do this five minute video. And then the editing is...

The computer is broken. My brother who produces with me, he and I are scrambling trying to get it. And we have the VHS. We have the VHS. You guys got to bring it to the White House because we're already rehearsing and you got to bring it here. So we run over to the White House and we get clearance and we come in and they say, you can't go in wearing that.

meaning just shirt and pants. You have to, what do you mean? Well, we're all dressed for the event because it's only an hour before the event now. And they're not going to just put it on. The president has to approve it and you have to show it to him, but you can't go in like that. So I'm like, well, what are you supposed to do? What are you supposed to do? They go put on your tuxedos because you're going to the event, right? Well, we're going from here. No one goes out except through the back door into the

into the motorcade, go in this tiny bathroom with your brother and put on these tuxedos. So we were like monkeys in a cage trying to put on tuxedos with cummerbunds and bow ties. And it was a comedy. Now they rush us into the war room where the president and the inner staff, I give the tape to my friend Mark Katz,

And they put it in a VHS machine with a with a, you know, 20 inch TV on top of a AV rack that they wheel over to the president of the United States and everybody. And Marquette pushes me. What do you I said, what are you doing? It's like you with Springsteen. He pushes me next to Clinton. I said, why? Why? He says, you made it.

You should be next to him. I'm like, this is the worst. This is. And Rob, I'm telling you, for the first 30 seconds of the video, as it starts to play, the room is silent, including Clinton. And I'm like, oh, my God. Every bad thought rushes to my head, including I'm going to be deported. I've humiliated the man, the office, the country until he starts to chuckle.

And then I don't have to tell you when the president chuckles, everyone else chuckles. That's right. And then he starts laughing and then he starts laughing really hard. And then he's slapping his leg like he's on the back of the pickup in Arkansas. It was thrilling. And they all clap and we go in the motorcade and we're like shot out of a cannon into that room, into the into the correspondence dinner.

And they put on that video. There wasn't even a seat for us. We were literally sitting on steps in the back of the room. I don't remember you being there. No, but there was no table for us. Nice table for the West Wing people. Yes, there was. But I swear to you, that thing went on and my life changed. I already had a pretty good life. I was besieged by reporters. This was the first time.

that a sitting president of the United States made an intentionally funny SNL-type comedy video while in office. Here's the best fallout from that whole thing. Get a call from a friend of mine. He says...

My friend saw the video, would like to have lunch with you. Johnny Carson. Whoa. And Johnny had long been off the air. He was like the Wizard of Oz at that point. No one saw him. That's right. I asked permission if I could bring a friend to a comedian.

Like Ray Romano? This is God. So I brought Ray. No way. We had two hours with him and he was the most gracious, nicest man, really super funny. And Johnny, of course, knew who Everybody Loves Raymond was, unlike Bruce Springsteen. Yes, he did. He knew everything else too. But he said this word of advice to Ray or any other comedian who might be listening. I don't want to hear about politics.

Just do your act and get the fuck off the stage, he said. Amazing. All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm gonna leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel.

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Meet the next generation of podcast stars with Sirius XM's Listen Next program, presented by State Farm. As part of their mission to help voices be heard, State Farm teamed up with Sirius XM to uplift diverse and emerging creators. Tune in to Stars and Stars with Issa as host Issa Nakazawa dives into birth charts of her celeb guests. This is just the start of a new wave of podcasting. Visit statefarm.com to find out how we can help prepare for your future.

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. One of my great regrets is I never did Carson with Carson because when I was coming up, it's almost weird to think about now, but it was the truth. There was a period where Joan Rivers, when she co-hosted, got way better ratings than Johnny ever did on The Tonight Show. You're kidding. I never knew that. Yes, she crushed it.

And because it was a special occasion, I guess. So if you had the choice you and you wanted the eyeballs, you did it when Johnny was on vacation and Joan was doing. Oh, you're kidding. I did it twice with Joan and never with Johnny. And I'm really kind of. And now you kick yourself. Yeah. I mean, I love Joan and she was great, but I never got to meet. Never, never met him. I'd see him drive. I lived on Point Doom as he did. And I would see him drive his what he had. He had a not a Camaro, a Stingray.

Right. He drove. So does Bruce, by the way. Bruce has like so many cars. Do you think Bruce gets tired of posing with cars on deserted roads ever? I think that's his shtick. Let me ask you, I hope this isn't too off topic. No, there's no, we don't have topics here. We don't believe in them. Okay. I actively don't believe in them. Great.

I need your opinion on this. As a friend of Bruce, maybe you can give me some insight because, as I said, he's my absolute hero. But I'm very upset about the whole ticket thing. There's a lot of money for the tickets. Bruce is touring again. Everybody's very excited about it. And I don't know all of the details, but I know that people are irate at the –

ticket prices. They're doing something called dynamic pricing. And this is an effort for the artist to avoid scalpers. And it's supposed to protect the audience from scalpers, right? Right. And to make sure that the artists get the ticket money. But with dynamic pricing, if there's high demand, the price goes up.

So they are charging, in some cases, $5,000 for midfield seats in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Right. This seems completely against everything Bruce Springsteen stands for, if you follow him and love him and believe his working man ethos. Right. So John Landau, the manager, after a few days of not commenting—

Made it worse by saying, we're just doing what everybody else does. To which I reacted, yeah, but Bruce is not everybody else. Bruce sings for the working man, and now he's appearing to be just the man. And I don't know how to feel about it. I want him to be perfect.

I, I know what you mean. And then on the other side of it, I mean, you saw him on Broadway. Yes, it was somewhat expensive, but you're seeing him in a tiny venue. But he said he he tells you, he says, I made it all up.

It's one of the most amazing moments I've ever seen where he talks about his career and his ethos. The persona. And he says, I made it up. It's no different than Stevie Nicks making up that she's a gold dust woman and a Welch witch and spinning around in her chiffon. It's no different. She made it up. Yes, I understand. But now we're talking about not a stage act. We're talking about a persona. I dare say that the reason we love

One of the reasons we love Bruce so much is because he has walked the walk and not just talked the talk. Yes. He's a very caring and giving fellow. And, you know, if you grew up when I did in the 70s and early 80s, there were legends of his kindness and generosity and his caring that are not bullshit, that are not fake. Yeah.

So what happened? I think like every, like so many things in our business, the business just doesn't run probably in the way that it, that he used to. I don't know what it would even entail for Bruce. If Bruce could actually control, like, I guess he could. Yes, he could. He could. It's very simple. That's what's bothering me. He could say there's going to be a cap on what we're charging for the tickets. And that cap is going to be $500.

Which is still crazy for most people. Yeah. But not $5,000? Having just seen the Elvis movie, the Baz Luhrmann Elvis movie, is it possible that

that John Landau is having his Colonel Tom Parker moment. No. Bruce is very smart and articulate and knows what's going on. And if he didn't know, he knows now. Well, this is the perfect opportunity. I've been trying to get Bruce to do this podcast forever. By the way, Bruce, if you come on the podcast, I won't ask you about this. How about that?

That'll get him. So here's the question. Are you going to go see him? I've never really missed a Bruce tour. Me neither. But I'm seriously considering not going. You should do like a Sally Field as Norma Rae, where everybody holds up the signs where they say, play the ties that bind. And you hold up a sign that says, you know, union now. Like, give us $4,750 back. He ain't playing that song. Ha ha ha ha.

And I don't even want to, I hope this doesn't upset him, but it comes from love. It comes from me wanting my hero to stay my hero. That's what it comes from. Yeah. As I get older, it's hard for me to get it up to go to

very many concerts. You're right, me too. It's such a zoo. It's uncomfortable. That guy's standing in front of me. Isn't he going to sit for one song so I can see? You're a huge music fan. Other than Bruce, did you ever have a concert that you went to and you went, holy moly, this is amazing? Because I for sure have one that blew my mind unexpectedly. Oh, tell me. Roger Waters. And you were a big fan before you saw him? I was a B-plus fan. Not avid, crazy lunatic, but absolutely a fan of him.

For sure a fan, but I went and saw, and it wasn't even Roger Waters with Pink Floyd. It was Roger Waters, but he was doing The Wall.

That's fantastic. It's by far the best concert I've ever been to, and not even close, including Bruce. Wow. That's great. I think the first time I saw Bruce was the best. 1980, NASA Coliseum. That show is actually bootlegged. It's a famous Coliseum night, I think it's called.

I mean, when you saw him then, it was like a human lightning bolt was on stage. Did you see him that early? I did. I saw him that early. I also saw Michael Jackson. And Michael was... Pretty good. Michael was very, very similar. And when I watched the Elvis movie, I was like... Which I never saw Elvis, but it's kind of the same. There are certain people that are otherworldly. They just are... Prince was like that. I saw him a bunch. Although Prince had...

Prince would do things that kind of, I mean, and he's Prince, he can do whatever the hell he wants. He would do, he would give you 30 seconds of Little Red Corvette and then, and I'm not kidding, 25 minutes of,

of a guitar solo from some song you'd never heard of. Yeah, but you didn't care. He was so mesmerizing. He was one of the most talented people who ever lived. But no one connected to the audience like Bruce. That's right. And that's what made him, to me, the greatest performer ever.

Have you, um, I know this is apropos of nothing. Clarence Clemons, the late, great Clarence Clemons. Yes, I got to meet him. Yes. Great. Somebody sent me the video that I'd forgotten existed. The music video for You're a Friend of Mine. Do you remember when Clarence had a top 10 hit in the middle of the 80s? It's Jackson Brown and Clarence Clemons duet. I don't remember this. And Daryl Hannah is singing backup. What? What?

It is shot in their living room. It is really, really, really disturbing. Oh, yeah. You're like, what is going on?

Wait, why? Okay, I need to know. I'm going to go on a vacation. I'm going to be in the south of France. Yes. You know Club 55 in Saint-Tropez? Yes, I do. Club 55 is really kind of... I actually... How about this? I actually was making a documentary on Club 55. I didn't know that. And we...

We got halfway through the documentary and then the financing kind of fell apart. But I'm fascinated with Club 55. Because tell the people whose idea was that. Bridget Bardot. That's right. Bridget Bardot's. It's a beach club in Saint-Tropez. And it's one of those great things. I have a friend who has a theory that the super rich love nothing more than to be bullied.

Oh, I thought you were going to say the most rustic kind of no frills thing. Right. And a bargain. But that's part of the bullying is like they like they secretly love being made to wait in a line. Yep. And to be treated like shit.

And to because they had their whole lives are yachts and planes and helicopters. So Club 55 is one of those places where it doesn't matter who you are or what you are. Go sit in the corner. We'll get to you when we're good and ready. And it's every captain of the industry. And the food's great, but it's all this. I'm fascinated with the socioeconomic aspect.

pecking order hierarchy, the anthropological study that goes on there, because it is unlike anywhere in the planet. Well, Malibu has a little of that. And I always found that what most people in Malibu wanted was the more rustic, down-to-earth-like sandwich at Malibu Kitchen.

You know, where the guy behind the counter, Bill, who's actually a pussycat, would be gruff and short with people and had no time for, for instance, someone on their cell phone when they should be ordering. He's been making me sandwiches since I was 18 years old. And those sandwiches are some of the best in the world, I think. Right. I'm going there tomorrow.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

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Meet the next generation of podcast stars with Sirius XM's Listen Next program, presented by State Farm. As part of their mission to help voices be heard, State Farm teamed up with Sirius XM to uplift diverse and emerging creators. Tune in to Stars and Stars with Issa as host Issa Nakazawa dives into birth charts of her celeb guests. This is just the start of a new wave of podcasting. Visit statefarm.com to find out how we can help prepare for your future.

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

Are you down with the apple pan? Yeah, sure. That's like saying, are you down with the sun coming up in the morning? Okay, good. Just want to be sure. So it's like the apple pan. Where's your favorite Italian? Oh, I get, there's a bunch now. There's so many good ones. Mozza is the first thing that comes to mind. I love Angelini. I love Rosso Blue downtown. There's places that make incredible pasta. Let me ask you this. Do you have a...

like grubby in and out, no frills street taco place. Yeah. There's so, there's so many and I'm trying to, I, they all just flew out of my head since you asked. Yeah. Uh, gorilla tacos is now a brick and mortar place, but it was a truck and those tacos are incredible. Guisados is, is great. Gorilla tacos is one block away from my fire station on nine one, one Lone Star. Aha. My trailer is parked.

a underhanded throw to Gorilla Tacos downtown LA. I mean, what a neighborhood that is, right? It's amazing. It is amazing. It's a food mecca right there. You have to, before we go, tell our listeners how you got the title for Everybody Loves Raymond, because I love that story. It's something that

Ray's actual brother said when he saw Ray's, I think it was Cable Ace Award for comedy. And Ray's real brother was, in fact, a New York police sergeant. And he goes, never ends for Raymond. Raymond goes to work. People do the wave. I go to work. People shoot at me. Never ends for Raymond. Everybody loves Raymond. It almost wasn't because Ray hated that title.

Oh, man, we're asking for it with that title. I can already see the reviews. Not everybody, blah, blah, blah. Right? That's what would have been my reaction. Yeah. And I said, you know what? Let's just put just a dummy title. Let's just keep it. And he came up with a whole list of really bad titles like That Raymond Guy and Raymond's Tree, Raymond's Way.

Who's Raymond? It was horrible. And the truth is everybody loves Raymond was a little bit. The reason I think it resonated with me was it was very specific. It was the brother's attitude toward him. It summed up what Ray's real problem was, was being torn in all these directions as a husband, a brother, a father, a son. So that seemed to, and it was funny. The president of CBS said to him,

Because Ray was very adamant about changing this before we went on. He goes, Ray, I tell you what, we don't have a better title. Let's just use this title. And I tell you what, you become a top 10 show. You can change the title to whatever you want. And within the first year, we actually became a top 10 show. And sure enough, Ray called the president of CBS. And he said, all right, you said he goes, what are you crazy? We're a top 10 show. You can't change the title now.

And that's how you get to be the president of CBS, by having that kind of smarts. Why is it, do you think, that that show, it's a great show, we all love it, it is lauded, we have the Emmys to prove it. When you say we. Well, because I'm a friend of yours, so I feel proprietary about the Emmys. And now, it's Emmy voting as we speak, and there isn't a network of

comedy that is going to even be nominated. Now, I know that back then there was no streaming. I know that back then there were still cable shows. It wasn't like today. But there has to be a reason that... Yes, I know the reason. Good. This is what I'm getting at. Why has the multi-camera, and by the way, it's not just network. It's multi-camera. Why has the multi-camera fallen into such disrepute? Everything is terrible.

That would be the follow-up to Everybody Loves Raymond. Yes, everything is terrible. Everything is terrible. I once had lunch with Larry Gelbart, one of the great comedy writers of all time, and Norman Lear. I don't have to tell you who he is. Yes. And they were asking me about the business now and what I was going through. And I told them. And Larry turns to Norman and he says, we're dying just in time. And that's my philosophy now of everything in life.

That, you know, good luck, kids. We're getting out of here. It does feel that way. There's nothing wrong with the four-camera sitcom. It's a beautiful medium. It's the perfect in-between theater and film, right? Yes. You write it, rehearse it, and present it as a play. And yet you have the flexibility and permanence of film that you can edit and then keep.

So when it works, it's the most popular medium in the world. When it works, because people feel like not only are we seeing something at our convenience at home on television, we feel like we're part of a live event.

And so there's nothing wrong with the form. It's the content that's not so good. And executives make the mistake of conflating the two. They think it's the form that's not cool anymore. No, the moment a good one comes along, everyone will run over there and start imitating that again.

Right. They don't really want to give it a chance. You know, I write one or two of these a year and I have ever since Raymond. Nobody wants. And it could be that I stink. It could be that I don't have it anymore. And I was a one hit sitcom wonder. That's very possible. I doubt it.

They don't want anybody else either, it seems right now. They really don't. Netflix tried a bunch, but they blame the form, not the content. I loved that era. Frasier. Yes. Which was one of the greats. Yours. Seinfeld. Mad about you, Seinfeld. Yes.

friends, obviously. They're still popular. They were amazing. They were amazing. Well, you did one, I remember, because my daughter worked as a production assistant on it. That's right. And it was really fun. That was The Grinder. I loved The Grinder. Yeah, that was great, that show. I loved The Grinder. And she was so sweet and great. There was nothing wrong with that show.

That was a very good show. It's I'm super proud of it. You should be. Where can we see it? Is there anywhere to see those? You can see it on Hulu. Oh, great. How many episodes were there?

Oh, we did 22 of them. And we were lucky to have done that because it was so subversive. If it had been on a streamer, it would still be going. It was just way too subversive for a broad network audience. I just finished yesterday a comedy I co-created with my son.

Oh. And we finished our first season yesterday. It's on Netflix in, I think, April. We haven't announced yet, but I think it'll be April, called Unstable. And it's basically a thinly veiled look at what our dynamic is like. You know, I'm a larger-than-life character and the son who isn't quite as amused at his father's antics as everybody else. And it's super funny. And we had

Great people like Fred Armisen in it. And it was a blast. Just a blast. Well, I love the sound of that. That's great. If you get another season, remember your friend Phil. I want to be in it with you. Oh, good. I'll put you in it. Yeah, for sure. All right, we're going to do it. We've got a lot more ahead of us. We've got more Springsteen. We're going to get answers from Bruce. We demand answers, you and I.

Yes. Not just you and me. I'm sure a lot of people listening who are Bruce fans also want answers, and they're not happy. I really do, and I'm not kidding. I know it's a funny bit, but it's so genius. I want you to bring a sign if you go. Yeah. Everybody raises a sign that says, I overpaid. Yeah. Play Rosalita. Play Born in the USA Acoustic. Play Thundercrack. Why did I pay so much? That's right.

So, Phil, Naked Lunch, who's just, I need to know who your favorite, your podcast, which is great. Who's your favorite guest you've had? I know, well, that's terrible. You can't say that. You can't, I can't get you to answer that. Our wives. How's that for an answer? Okay. Should I have my wife on the show? I've been thinking about that. Yes, of course. People would love that. Kind of peek inside your life when you do that. Wow. Why not? And you should certainly have your son on.

Everyone else is going to be polite and nice and respectful, but I find that your wife calls you on your bullshit. Amazing. Okay, it's done. I'm doing it. I've been thinking about it, and now, I mean, you're the master of all you survey. You're an author. You're a podcaster. You're a –

You're a created one of the great you. I mean, this kind of got the Midas touch of it's good enough for you. It's good enough for me. That's my motto. It's good enough for Phil Rosenthal. It's good enough for me. You're very sweet. And your podcast has been picked up for its sixth season. Naked Lunch podcast is on in its first season. But Somebody Feed Phil has been picked up for its sixth season. We've shot these already and they come on October 18th. And so does my book. Somebody Feed Phil the book. It's the companion book.

Behind the scenes stuff and 60 of the most requested recipes from the show. At what point will you be fully sated? Never. Just hungry. I've only scratched the surface of the earth. We got to go deep. Well, just talking to Phil has made me hungry. Somebody please feed me. I'm going to get a turkey sandwich after that and contemplate how much money it's going to cost me to go see Bruce Springsteen. But listen, look up the film he did with Clinton.

It's super good. Just one more thing before we end today's episode. Let's check the lowdown line. Hello. You've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hey, Rob. This is Carson from Orlando, and I got an existential question. If you had to choose to live the life of one of the characters you play, whose life do you choose to live? Could I do JFK with a better ending? For sure. I mean, come on. This is the president we're talking about. Or Sam Seaborn in The West Wing? I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think of anything. Yeah! When I played JFK in Killing Kennedy.

Let's do that with a happy ending. I mean, you know what? Get your mind out of the gutter. Thanks for calling in. I will see you next week on Literally. Great guest coming up. And don't forget to give us a nice little five-star review and download the rest of the season because we love having you. All right. See you next week.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Rob Schulte, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. Our research is done by Alyssa Grahl. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Joanna Salataroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. All of the music you hear is by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week on Literally with Rob Lowe.

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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