Rainn Wilson: This Beets Everything
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That's right. Discover automatically doubles the cash back earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with Cash Back Match. Now that's a real crowd pleaser. Everyone knows how it ends. Double the cash back. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. Rain. We're both wearing hats. You've got kind of a fishing, what would you call it? Is your podcast about hats? Oh, so they didn't tell you. Oh, they didn't tell me. Oh.

Hey everybody, welcome to Literally. Rainn Wilson, Rainn Wilson. He doesn't get more iconic than the beloved Dwight Schrute, but he's so much more than that. He's an amalgam of many different things. He's not just a comedy icon, as you're about to see when it starts to rain. See what I did?

How have you been? I love you. You're the best. Thanks. Good to see you. So you're one of my favorite funny men in the world, but you're also a great dramatic actor. Oh, you're very kind. I need to tell you how much I loved Backstrom, by the way. Oh, thanks. Yeah. You and 17 other people watched that, and I really appreciate that. If only I'd been in Nielsen Family. I know. Because, dude, I think Nielsen Family's

represent 500,000 people. I think that's the way it's broken down. At least it was. That's the way they do it. Wow, that's incredible. Well, it's interesting because Backstrom, for those of you who don't know, was a 13-episode arc I did on Fox as a disgruntled alcoholic

uh, self-hating police detective who is also brilliant at solving crimes, of course. And we got canceled after the 13 because our ratings, we were just right on that cusp, you know, but, but we like got canceled like a 0.9, but then next year all the shows got like a 0.8 and a 0.7 and a 0.5. And now there's like network shows that have like, I don't know what the viewership number is, but it's like 0.9 is a big, big,

big, big hit now. Yeah. And that was about seven, eight years ago. We got a .9 and we should have stayed on the air. We would have done great. That's happened to me a bunch of times that I was in a show that was the...

that people thought was the ratings were not good. And what they were, were the new normal before they were accepted as the new normal. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. That's exactly right. We were right in the middle of the new normal for broadcast television, but they were like, Oh, these are, these are trending downwards. Guess what folks? All the numbers are trending downwards. It's, it's unbelievable. I mean, when parks and recreation was on, it was always, it was,

a jump ball. And do you remember if the office had tremendous, crazy ratings? My sense of it was that it was, it was a rating success, but it wasn't like it was blowing the lid off the place. People just loved it. It was just beloved. But in terms of ratings, I don't think it was a big deal. It was a really interesting thing because for the first season we got terrible ratings and the first part of the second season was really, really bad. We were on the verge of cancellation for month after month after month. And then

Very slowly in the second season, we started creeping up the ratings roster. And then all of a sudden we were nominated for an Emmy. And then we were good to go at that point. But you're absolutely right. We were the number one comedy on NBC always. No offense to Parks and Rec. But, you know, when you looked at like the shows, we were like number 37 of like all the shows.

But they, you know, when they, when they, they also do a finer investigation of television numbers. Is this too inside baseball for your listenership? No, it is not. Okay. The, when they, and when they do that, they realize like, oh, here's who's watching the office, college kids and rich people. Yep.

So we became a very, very valuable audience to them. I mean, the West Wing had the – that was a broad ratings hit too. But one of the things that they loved was not just the ratings, but they loved the socioeconomic breakdown. Right. Yeah. Of who was watching. It's so funny to go back and look at that. Was it Wednesday nights? Thursday nights. Thursday nights. Yeah. And it was –

At one point, it was a community, Parks and Rec, Office, 30 Rock. Yep, that's right. Dude, I mean... That's a solid lineup. Unbelievable. You know what it is? It's the lineup that made Netflix. I mean, when Netflix didn't have anything, it had those shows. It's so funny because a lot of people said years ago, hey, when Netflix loses The Office, what do they really have?

What do they really have? And we're seeing the evidence of that now. It took a little while. It took a year and a half, two years for the office to leave. But they don't have that back library and they don't have the office and people are leaving in droves ultimately. I'm doing a show for them. I thought you were on like 9-1-1 Lone Star.

I'm on two shows at the same time. I'm doing two shows. It's kind of unprecedented. That's nuts. But you're such a workaholic. It was inspired by my son, John Owens, online trolling of me. And it kind of became a thing that people reported on. And there were segments on Seth Meyers and Ellen and Kimmel and Good Morning America. And people took notice. And it kind of took on a life of its own and kind of got away from him.

And, and my social media literally feed was like, I'm just here for John Owen. I'm just waiting for the son's comments. Like they could. So he and I were like, I wonder if there's people like this thing, whatever this thing is. I wonder if there's, if there's something here to mine.

So, you know, we just thought and thought and came up with different ideas and different worlds and different story pitches. And what we settled on was the spirit of it is what people like. And it's the spirit of a, you know, a larger than life father who probably hasn't lived in reality yet.

you know, since 1981 and you know, the world kind of sees him one particular way. And then the sun knows what it's really like behind the curtain and is the only one who can sort of speak truth to power. And so that's the dynamic that we've built on. And in it, I'm playing like a, an Elon Musk sort of world famous, highly eccentric, maybe insane, uh,

um, genius entrepreneur businessman. And then he's the son who's moved away from, just can't get out of that shadow no matter how hard he tries. So he is a flutist or flautist. Yeah.

In New York. Is your son playing your son or is someone else playing your son? He is playing. He co-created it with me and a man named Victor Fresco who. Oh, I remember Victor Fresco. I've auditioned and not gotten into many of his shows over the years. We could have had you audition and maybe gotten into this one. I don't know. I didn't get the call. Sorry, Rob. All right. Well, I'm going to fix that.

That's fantastic. One of my favorite shows, you're talking about Backstrom's canceled show. One of my favorites was The Grinder. Oh, thank you. I love that show. It was so funny. Thank you. It was so weird and funny and wonderful and dark and twisted and surprising.

Um, it was, that was a real failure to not keep that thing in the air. And right back at you, brother. Cause I think we were, it was around within the same couple of years on Fox. I mean, I would have loved to have seen Backstrom and the Grinder anchor a night and I've missed having that kind of a character. And this is hopefully we'll capture. It feels like it, like we've table read all the scripts already and it feels very like a companion piece. You never want to

try to recreate something obviously, but you know what it's like when it feels has the same feel. Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. It's been fun watching my son. How you, you have, I have one son, 17. Yeah. Okay. So 17, he's, what is he a junior? He just finished his junior year. Yep. Now. So the junior year was, it is insane for him and you as junior year in my kids' lives. Um,

For many number, any number of reasons was like, it was a slog. It's like getting ready for college, taking the tests. Am I going to go to college, not go to college? You know, friends are partying. It was nuts.

Yeah, it was a challenge. But, you know, first of all, it's a challenge raising a teenager under any circumstances. Secondly, it's a challenge raising a teenager in contemporary society with social media and, you know, this mental health crisis that is really out of control with young people. I asked my son Walter the other day, I was like, oh, how's your friend?

blank. He's like, oh yeah, he's out of school because he attempted suicide and he's institutionalized. He's like, oh wow. Okay. Didn't know that. But then you throw COVID into the mix on top of that and being a teenager in COVID land, which like this year was definitely rough, but he got very good grades and he pulled through. He did a good job and worked hard. Last year, he almost flunked out on Zoom school.

Um, doesn't surprise me. How could anybody ask a teenager to sit on a screen? I mean, I can barely sit in class for six or seven hours. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And learn. It's one thing to be there. It's another thing to like deeply learn. Yep. Yeah. So, well, congratulations that he's gotten through it. Cause I mean, as you allude to so many, so many don't. Yeah, indeed. I have such empathy for,

When I hear, oh, my son or daughter's a junior, I'm like, okay. Yeah, yeah. We'll see what surprise a senior year has in store. You are such a specific, and that's the thing. Anything that I love is a very specific tone, voice, thing. Do you know, I don't like anything that's general, like in performance, in music, in art.

And I think that, you know, not, not many people occupy the place that you can occupy as a, as a actor. And ironically, as much as we love that stuff, the, that's often the hardest thing to get people to see and hire early on. And I'm curious what your knocking on the doors of show business was like.

Yeah, that's a really interesting way into that question. And I appreciate that. So I did theater in New York for like 10 years before I came to LA and tried my hand at TV and film. And I was so...

far down the rung of actors in New York with tiny little kind of useless agents. I didn't even get an audition for Law & Order being in New York for 10 years. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. An audition. Not even an audition. Okay, for those of you who don't know, so Law & Order has 17 shows all being shot in New York.

They have – think of all the – it's like it's a factory. I mean like it's the easy – Every episode has five or six guest stars and like seven or eight co-stars. You need someone who's the deli owner or the truck driver or the janitor or what have you. Yeah. That's a bad agent.

I tell you. What kind of auditions were you getting then? But here's the thing. Because you're talking about a specific voice. And it's like I was a weird looking – here's how I define myself. A weird looking leading man. I like that. Because – and people didn't know what to do with that. I wasn't like – No, let me ask you a question. Why do you say leading man and not character actor? Because that – everybody goes, oh.

Character, weird looking, oh, that equals character actor, which of course we know it doesn't. How did you know that? Because I feel like...

character guy is like you have the big fat jolly guy like hey how's it going and he's like the character guy and he plays the big fat jolly guy right now I really am at heart a character guy but like capable of playing lead roles in a way that like Paul Giamatti is capable of playing lead roles yep but looked a little offbeat but not so so weird that you couldn't say oh he's the jolly fat truck driver or he's the psycho killer or something like that um

So people didn't know what to do with me. It's just what you said. It's like they had no idea how to cast me. And because I did a lot of theater, I did Shakespeare and tours and whatnot, people just thought of me as a theater actor. And they lacked the imagination to kind of go, hey, what if this guy could play a role on a TV show and he just plays an offbeat character? And it really wasn't until

So I had zero success in film and TV in New York, came to LA and then by hook or by crook, got in a few kind of smarter casting directors offices. And they were kind of able to see like, Oh, this guy has a thing that we can, we can find a place for him in the, in the great wide, wonderful world of the entertainment business. So yeah,

That started, it was a long slog, but that started when I came to LA. So in a weird way, I have this kind of resentment against New York because New York is supposed to be, oh, it's so artistic and it's the land of theater people and they're doing strange and interesting things. And oh, now they're doing performance art and now he's in a film and now he's on Broadway. But it was very, very limiting to me. Whereas in LA, people were like, oh my God,

this guy could play drama. This could do comedy. He could play a psycho killer. He could play a nerdy paper salesman. He could be, you know, in films. He could be in six feet under, play mortician. Like they, they, they were able to kind of see me in an imaginative way. So that specific voice that you're talking about right away, as soon as things started, especially around six feet under, but even a little before that people were,

the people in the industry got very excited. They knew, uh,

And my manager at the time, this guy, Mark Schulman, we don't work together anymore, but he was such an amazing manager. He believed in me. I had zero credits, Rob, zero, zero, zero, zero credits, not even on audition for law and order. And, um, and he was like, you're going to be lead, lead actor. You're going to be on TV shows. You're going to have your own TV show. And he saw that vision. And I was like, what are you talking about? Cause he was able to see that, that voice thing that you're talking about. Yeah. It's,

It is amazing how important someone with vision is. And, you know, the stories of casting directors, as you say, smart ones, seeing somebody and not and seeing what other people are just missing.

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Meet the next generation of podcast stars with Sirius XM's Listen Next program, presented by State Farm. As part of their mission to help voices be heard, State Farm teamed up with Sirius XM to uplift diverse and emerging creators. Tune in to Stars and Stars with Issa as host Issa Nakazawa dives into birth charts of her celeb guests. This is just the start of a new wave of podcasting. Visit statefarm.com to find out how we can help prepare for your future.

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. New York, theater. What did you enjoy, not enjoy? Like, were you a big Chekhov guy? Did you like to do the Bard, or did you do Mosam Shepard more? Like, what was your vibe? Did you play the Guthrie? Did you play around the country? I did. Oh, I trod the boards, Rob. I trod the boards, indeed. Yes. Um...

I did a little Broadway. I did a little off-Broadway. I did the Guthrie, the arena stage. I did a lot of regional theater. I did some tours. I did a Broadway tour. And I guess what I really...

loved about it and it's something that i still love to this day is my training at nyu as a theater actor um was to be a repertory theater actor to be hey tonight you're doing a stephen sondheim musical and tomorrow night you're going to do a virtual break play and then the next night you're going to do a weird movement performance based thing then you're going to do checkoff then you're going to do shakespeare and then you're going to do a farce

And you got to be ready to go into all of those different kinds of styles of acting. And I, and I love that idea of the actor as someone who transforms into characters, depending on the needs of the play. It's like, who am I this time? Do you know that whole, that whole thing? So, and I still, I still really enjoy doing that as an actor. And I,

You know, it's been an interesting challenge after The Office because I'm so well known for one iconic role. I'm really happy and proud of the stuff that I've gotten to do since then. I've done cool indie films, a zombie film, a horror film, you know, a big blockbuster film.

You know, shark film, the Meg and the Meg is legendary. I mean, not a day goes by where my sons and I don't talk about the Meg. I'm not kidding. I'm not being a dick. I was absolutely the true. The Meg is one of the great titles of all time. Come on. I'm not sure if I believe you or not, but it's true. I'm telling you, but, but I'm not trying to brag about my career, but I am saying that, that,

The thing I was trained in to transform into very different characters is something that I get to do in my career, which is a great segue. I don't know if I'm doing this too early. No, go ahead. To Bill in Jerry and Marge Go Large. Yes, I'm obsessed with hearing about this project. So yeah, Jerry and Marge Go Large is coming out on Paramount+. I'm really excited about this film.

It's Brian Cranston, Annette Bening. It's based on a real story about a couple in Michigan that figured out that with this certain lottery game, if you played it in the right way and enough, you would actually make money. You were guaranteed to make money from it. Wow. True story. And they won millions of dollars, but they also brought in their friends and their family and people in their town, which helped revitalize their town in Michigan. And, um,

This is one of those rare movies that Hollywood doesn't really do anymore that it used to do so masterfully, like in a Frank Capra way of like regular Americans, good hearted people, small town Americans getting along, doing good people, doing good deeds for other good people. And I really, it's very warm hearted. It's uplifting, but it's not treacly. It's very funny. Um,

And I play kind of the comic relief, Bill, the slovenly owner of a liquor store where they buy all their lottery tickets. And he goes in on it with them and is taken along on the journey. And it was just a buttload of fun. Tell me about Annette Bening. Annette Bening is one of those rare, like she's iconic. Like to me, she's like a contemporary Faye Dunaway. Yes. Like radiant beauty, grace.

interesting, magnetic. And as I was, I never get starstruck working with actors, but I was working with Annette Bening. I was like, I just kept thinking like, wow, I'm acting with Annette Bening. Cool. I mean, I loved Valmont. I loved, uh, the grifters, Bugsy, so many amazing, uh, stuff that she's done over the years. And, um,

She is just so lovely and sweet and kind and cannot say enough good things about her. Well, Cranston is...

just a breathtaking actor. I mean, the fact that, I mean, that he's had to talk about, he's a two iconic characters, like, like both of which you think you would never recover from and his book. Have you read his book by the way? I didn't. I I've heard great things about it. Oh, you have to some great stories, right? Oh, it's the best his, I mean, it truly is a great book.

If you're interested in him, obviously, or Breaking Bad or any of his work. But the process of acting is – I mean, he very much goes into his philosophy of acting, which is always really brave, I think, when actors are vulnerable enough to share their actual process and not shroud it in generalities because it's a very personal thing. And it's also super easy to make fun of. Right. It's great.

The Cranston book is great. And he's also, as you know, one of the nicest men you'll ever – That is very true. Did you read the Wilson book? The Rainn Wilson – Yeah, The Bassoon King. Of course I did. How did you find writing? Do you have any interest in doing multiple books? Yeah, well, here's the thing. By the way, The Bassoon King is a great title, I have to say. Yeah. Very evocative. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah.

Although I think, you know, it sold okay, you know, just to be a little insidery baseball, like it sold fine. Mm-hmm.

um it was not like a runaway bestseller i didn't really expect it to be you know people aren't lining up to buy a book but i kind of feel like i've been thinking recently like i wonder what would have happened if i would have made it more dwight specific just to sell some fucking copies you know what i mean like if i called it the bear king yes you know or yes the the bear lover or you know

This beats everything beats B-E-T-U. Something, some Dwight-ish pun or tip of the hat. Like, even if it wasn't really about that at all. Well, that's what I did with this podcast. Literally is a tip of the hat to Parks and Rec and Chris Traeger. That's why it's called literally. Well, the interesting thing about the Bassoon King is I wanted to write, um,

I had a story to... There's some office chapters and office tidbits and behind-the-scenes stuff, but that's a very small portion of the book. That's like one-tenth of the book. But I have, you know, kind of a life story that I thought had some interesting aspects to it, and especially in terms of my spiritual journey of growing up a member of the Baha'i faith and then leaving religion and... Explain to me quickly the Baha'i faith. Give me a primer. Sure. It's...

Baha'is, there's about 6 million Baha'is in the world. It's the most recent of the world religions. Baha'is believe in the sacredness and sanctity of all the world's religions. We, as Baha'is, actively read the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, the writings of the Buddha, you name it. Baha'is also believe that there is a new prophet or messenger or manifestation of God in

who came in the 19th century in Persia, in the Middle East, whose name was Bahá'u'lláh. And that name means the glory of God. And this great spiritual teacher, Bahá'ís belief has...

Spiritual lessons that humanity needs for today, for right now, that they're very relevant to the modern world. And Baha'is, so we worship God and try and do service and try and be good people. That's basically it. And you have a podcast about this.

I do. I have several podcasts and one of them is a strictly Baha'i podcast for, it's called the Baha'i Blogcast. And it's kind of about Baha'is for Baha'is, but, you know, we have a large listenership that aren't Baha'is at all, but just some really interesting Baha'is that are thinking, feeling, and doing interesting spiritual things. So anyways, there's a spiritual journey aspect to my book that was,

I knew it was going to be a little hard for some people to swallow because they want to read like, Oh, I want to read a celebrity bio. I want to read about stories behind the scenes, stories and whatnot. I don't really want to hear about God and a loss of faith and rekindling faith and whatnot. So, um, I knew it also needed to be really damn funny. So I tried to make it as funny as possible along the way to kind of like make a little, uh, sugar to help the medicine go down. But exactly. Um, but actually, um,

Rob, since you mentioned it, I'm working on one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, which I'm writing a book on spirituality. Wow. So, yeah, it's straight up. It's funny, but it's really just about spirituality. What prompted this? Hang on. I got to lead you through this. There's so much I want to unpack. What at this point in your life…

prompted you to write, to tackle such a grand topic? Because I think the world needs it. I think the world needs this message. You know, in all of this time of partisanship and bickering and disunity and the stakes are growing higher and higher, there's greater and greater discord in government. The systems are breaking down right and left and

The whole thesis of the book is that we need a spiritual solution to the problems of the world. And this is both on an individual level and it's also on a societal level. We need to, there is great and lasting wisdom in the spiritual traditions of the world in

surrender in serenity and service in transcendence in sacredness in the golden rule which exists in every single religion of the world but yet so few people live by it everyone touts it but very very few people live by it so the book is called soul boom

why we need a spiritual revolution. And it's really that second part. It's like, I feel like humanity needs a spiritual revolution. The way that we do everything, I shouldn't be promoting my book. It doesn't come out till April or May of next year, but, um, these are evergreens. These stay forever. So this is great to talk about it. The, um, we need a spiritual revolution, the way that humans do things right now on this planet. And I think you're in a large agreement on this.

is really fucked up. It's really based in self-interest, competition, one-upsmanship, power plays, consumer, kind of gross consumerism of just...

uh, profligate buying and using of resources. Um, the earth, we're disconnected from nature, from earth, um, and, uh, just chewing it up and spitting it out, uh, treating each other terribly. And foundationally, we need to really rethink how we do everything both again, like an individual level and on a global level. So I, I'm hoping this little book just

Kicks a few people in the butt and opens a few eyes and makes a little bit of a difference trying to urge us all in a different direction. It sounds amazing. Are you done with it already? I'm about three quarters done. Will you know when you're done or do you know what you're writing to?

Yeah, I need to, I have to finish this one chapter, which I think will be pretty easy. It could be a couple of weeks. Then I have to write the final chapter, which is really hard. It's just like tying it all together and making it all land and sticking the landing. And that's going to be a bear. And then I need to see if I need another chapter in it or not. So, but yeah, I have a lot of,

I have a lot of, I use the notes app on my phone, you know, that notes app. And, um, so I just, I get ideas or I read things or get sentences and I just, I just create this document. I mean, it's, it's like 120 pages of just notes and ideas around this, this topic, or I'll read a quote online by someone, um, and put it in the, uh, put it in the notes app. Do you collect great quotes? I do. Me too.

I do, and I write them down on here. In fact, I just wrote a couple down the other day. Ooh, want to share a couple? Add Leave It to Beaver in the section about Eisenhower and the Vietnam War. That makes perfect sense to me. Okay, that makes sense. Here, David Chalmers, who's the premier researcher on consciousness.

Why should physical processing give rise to such a rich inner life at all? It seems objectively unreasonable that it should, and yet it does. So I have a whole section on consciousness. Here's a Mary Oliver poem.

I have refused to live locked in the orderly house of reasons and proofs. The world I live in and believe in is wider than that. And anyway, what's wrong with maybe? You wouldn't believe what once or twice I have seen. I'll just tell you this. Only if there are angels in your head.

Will you ever possibly see one? I like that. See, because I'm not as evolved as you. You're really not. The shit that I collect is the one, there's the one I wrote down the other day. You're like Ty Cobb. Yes, Ty Cobb. It ain't bragging if you've done it. My mind is, I don't know who said it, but it's anonymous and made me laugh. Addicts, fuck it up at the finish line. Ah, nice. So good. Yeah, yeah. You're like, he had everything to live for.

They were on top of the world. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't understand. Addicts. Fuck it up at the finish line. Yeah. I love all that stuff. I, I, I'm a huge quote freak. And then plus if you put them in a book, it makes you look really smart. But yes, all you did was like find a fun quote online and put it in the book and people like, wow, he must've read everything by that author. You're like, no, I just, I just read sexy quotes. Yeah.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply.

Meet the next generation of podcast stars with Sirius XM's Listen Next program, presented by State Farm. As part of their mission to help voices be heard, State Farm teamed up with Sirius XM to uplift diverse and emerging creators. Tune in to Stars and Stars with Issa as host Issa Nakazawa dives into birth charts of her celeb guests. This is just the start of a new wave of podcasting. Visit statefarm.com to find out how we can help prepare for your future.

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Do you have any James Spader stories? That is hysterical. James Spader, for those listeners that don't know, had a limited run on The Office of about a season. Maybe it was one season.

Um, and it just, God bless him. Such a brilliant actor. Brilliant. So brilliant. I've been watching him. I remember seeing sex lies and videotape and I was in college and I, I couldn't believe that you could do that as an, as an actor. I didn't know that that was possible to be that present and still. And, um, it's a revolutionary performance.

For those of you out here, if you never saw or haven't seen Sex, Lies, and Videotape in a long time, go back and look at it. I mean, it created the modern independent film movement and for good reason. Yeah, Steven Soderbergh. And he played Robert California on The Office. Greatest name ever, Robert California. Such a good name. Beyond belief. It just didn't work. It didn't ultimately work. But it was genius. He didn't fit in.

He had a wonderful presence. I think there were some great episodes and some great moments that he was in. I mean, he does mysterious creepy kind of better than anyone. I do pretty good mysterious creepy. I know. I'd like to see you guys in the Battle of the Network Stars and instead of the Dunk Tank, it would be mysterious creepy competition. He would beat me every time. I mean, I'm good, but he's the master. He's the master. I doff my Kangol hat to him. He's got that famous...

you know, Jeff meme, whatever it was. I'm the fucking lizard King that, that speech. Yeah. From the office. That was great. That was great. That party at his house when you have that swimming pool was really, it was really a great episode, but it didn't really work because also like James, the way that he works, he works in a very particular way. That's very specific. He's not an improviser. You know, Steve Carell is all about, um,

He's all about second cities, all about like being nimble in the moment. And you could throw anything at Steve. You could just, in the middle of a scene, you could kind of say, I've got a polar bear in my butt. And he would just be like, he would just take it in completely. Not the polar bear, but the line. And,

and just run with it. But James would get thrown off. It didn't fit into the way he worked as an actor, which I think is important in casting that you have to also cast for the world. Yes. Well, that's one of the things I learned observing Mike Schur, who was one of the head writers in The Office along with Greg Daniels when he did Parks and Rec. And I've tried to do in putting together this new show is find actors who...

They may not even, like, find the actors and then build the characters around them.

And make sure you have actors who can play like that because I think it's super important in comedy to be able to do what we used to call in our show the fun runs. I don't know if you guys did them on the office where you would shoot the scene, but then you would just do a fun run and say whatever the hell you wanted and see where it went. Yeah, we did more fun runs than regular takes on the office. I was going to ask you what the ratio was. How much respect did you pay the actual script on any given day?

Well, Greg Daniels and Mike Schur had a philosophy, which was like, these writers have worked really hard on these scripts, and we should make sure that we get all their lines. And so we made sure that we had it as scripted. But as soon as we did, and that could have been the second or third take, then we start making it our own. So probably what you see on the screen is

a quarter improvised. Um, and then, you know, Greg also had another theory, which is like the show is made in the editing room. So whatever's funniest wins. So it's not whatever's scripted wins. It's whatever's funniest. So at the end of the day, it's like, here's a scripted line. Here's an improvised line. Here's a scripted blow to the scene here, or here's an improvised blow to the scene. And he would bring people in the caterer, the accountants, um,

People would bring their relatives by the set. Hey, watch this. Which of these is funnier? And funny wins. And the episodes are made in the editing room. And that's why, you know, Dean, who worked on your show, and Dave, who worked on ours, and Claire, like the editors really are the unsung heroes of both Parks and Rec and The Office. Dean Holland was kind enough to show up on our Parks and Recollection podcast.

um, that I do with Alan Yang and he's, he's just one of my favorites. Just, just a, a absolute genius. Would, um, would you have any qualms about doing a reunion like we did for the West wing one time only stage grading anything for the office? I would love to figure out some way to do some office stuff. That's not a reboot. I don't think anyone's really that interested in that. Um,

Also, we're so much older. Like everyone is, all people are going to see when they see it is like, God, they got old. They've aged. For sure. That's definitely a thing. And, and it's not going to be as funny. So, oh, this isn't as funny. And God, they're old. That's all the people are going to say. So maybe that's the title. Oh, that's good. But I do think like there was a script for,

that I found that we wrote for season one and never shot called Pet Day. And it was people bringing their pets to work and it never got greenlit, but it's the only extant office script that never got shot.

And I would love to do a reading of Pet Day. Yes. We could do a live stream, charge people 10 bucks to come listen to the original cast read Pet Day and give the money to charity. Well, that's why is that not already happening? I don't know. There's been some resistance.

Who? I want names. It's NBC and who has the rights to the script and what about the writer who wrote the script and... It's such a great idea. Yeah. I want to hear your James Spader story. I told mine. I did a movie called Bad Influence with Spader and the late, great Curtis Hanson. And, um...

I just, I have a great picture in my, with Christopher Christian Clemonson, Christian Clemonson. Yes. An amazing actor. He is so under rated and under touted and undervalued. He's amazing. He was great in that. You were great. I liked that film, but he was amazing in that. Thank you. I, he was great. It's I love, I love that movie. I'm it's one of the ones of mine that I can stomach. Um, he's, it was way ahead of its time. That movie, um, bad influence. If you haven't seen it, um,

And by the way, written by David Koepp. It was like David Koepp's second script. And David Koepp went on to be one of the most lauded film writers we've ever had. But somewhere I have a picture that is one of my most prized pictures. It's me and Spader and Curtis Hanson on the set.

And it's so clear what's going on. And it's what happened every day where you would show up, you got your, your, your sides of what you're going to be working on in the day. The crew isn't really even there. It's the director and the actors. And you're going to, you're sort of putting the scene on its feet and trying to find it. And it's us looking at Jimmy and Jimmy talking and talking.

And talking. And talking. And he's so fascinating. And he has such amazing, unique ideas that you're just enthralled. But it goes on forever. And I have a snapshot of those moments. And I just love it. There's no one like him. He's a true... He's just one of those people when I see him, which is so rare now, it just makes my heart so happy. Because he's one of a kind. Like you. It's like I like people who are...

No one's ever going to confuse you with anybody else or Spader with anybody else. I, however, get confused with John Stamos. So what does that tell you about me?

that's good that is good i get a little sometimes nick offerman maybe i get vincent tenofrio oh yes okay let's fucking go i get it i've gotten that like i like that i like it when people come up and like men in black you're great in men in black i wasn't in men oh yeah you're great oh you're great that's really really good i like that

Yeah, I get, I've gotten Billy Crudup in the early years. Tom Cruise, which I don't get. I mean, we have kind of similar energy, maybe. Would you fly an airplane for a movie or shoot a movie in outer space? Yes, in two seconds.

I saw Top Gun. I was like, what? First of all, I would never fly in a plane being flown by Tom Cruise or any actor. That would be a problem for me. Like she's in the back of the plane and he's flying her around. I was like, in an antique plane? No. He had that plane when I knew him in the 80s. Emilio Estevez and I would be with our Corona beers with limes in them playing beach volleyball and the old brick cell phone with a battery.

Right. Half out would ring and it would be Tom going, I'm in the air. I'm going to be flying by in about three minutes. And he would just come barrel rolling in his fighter jet.

That's nuts. That's how long ago he's been. Even if he's been flying that long, I would not. It's a lot of hours at the end of the day. Yeah, just not with an actor. I'm sorry. Then here's the thing is, is it really, is that plane really going to go down with Tom Cruise and Rainn Wilson in it? Is it really? I don't think it is. That would be a great way to go. I'm in my mid-50s already. I can, I can, yeah, maybe I've changed my mind. Because, yeah, I could do that. I'd be like James Dean.

The reason I'm here is because I love talking to you, Rob. I'm a big fan. I hope we get to work together as actors someday. That never happened. I know, but if this Netflix thing has another life, I'm going to write something specifically. Call me. Yeah, you got my number. What a great, interesting dude, right? See, this is one of the things I love about doing the show is there's no one like him.

And his interests and the way he talks and how thoughtful he is. And he's kind of intense and great. He's just he's great. And I'm glad you got to I was able to help reveal that side of him that you're not going to probably see many other places. All right. Just one more thing before we end today's episode. Let's check the lowdown line. Hello. You've reached literally in our lowdown line.

where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep. Hi, this is Gilbert from LA. Love the podcast. Love it. My question to you is,

What is the one comedy that you can put on over and over and still get a good laugh out of? You know what's going to happen, but you still put it on and you know that you're going to get a huge belly laugh. Hey, Gilbert. Boy, what a good question. I mean, I think Caddyshack.

Probably is for sure. Blazing Saddles would be another one. I know there are a lot of great, more contemporary comedies. Superbad would come to mind.

I think it's the comedies you see in your formative years, like the music you hear in your formative years. They become the ones that you return to and return to. And as good as some comedies have been since Caddyshack and Blazing Saddles, they're never going to occupy that place in my consciousness that those did when I saw them for the first time. And there's stuff in those movies that are just unbelievable. I would say the other one, though, would be Borat. So Borat, Caddyshack, Blazing Saddles.

Don't forget to join us next week. And please don't forget five-star reviews if you're so inclined. I'm not begging, but I would love a five-star if you could see your way through. And in the meantime, I'll see you next week on Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Rob Schulte, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. Our research is done by Alyssa Graw. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Joanna Salataroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. All of the music you hear is by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week on Literally with Rob Lowe.

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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