Re-Release: Henry Winkler: Holy Mackerel!
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Hey, everybody, and welcome back to Literally Rob Lowe here. You know, I get to talk to so many amazing people that sometimes I like to revisit an old conversation that you might have missed. So last year, I got to sit down with, first of all, an absolute legend and also universally accepted as the nicest man in show business, Henry Winkler. I mean, the guy was the Fonz.

The font. There was no bigger icon, idol, if you're old enough to remember it. And now he's relevant as ever because he stars in the amazing show Barry, which is literally one of the most groundbreaking, amazing shows on TV. It's in its, I think, fourth and final season on HBO right this second.

I love this man. Um, we worked together on parks and recreation. He's, he's the greatest. So, um, here is my conversation from last year with the amazing Henry Winkler. I thought that was a doc. You have a Dr. Fauci pillow behind you. Yes, this is, uh, it is a couch on the couch. Love it. That's what it was called. And, uh,

The Mr. Sanchez is the artist. What's it say on the back? Is it got an inspirational quote? It says, it is what it is. Now, what are all the books behind you? It's like you have a library going on. All right. These are the children's books that I write with Lynn Oliver. Yes, of course. We have just completed our 37th. Now, this could be an apocryphal story. I was once told...

You don't ever want to write a children's book. Oh, Rob, you have no idea what they put you through, what you can write, what you can't write. Is that true? Is there some sort of guideline for writing children's books? Oh, Rob, I'm telling you, I didn't even know. First of all, I didn't know I could write a book. Second of all, without Lynn, I wouldn't have written a book. Third of all, I wrote what I knew, which was a failing eight-year-old.

And the only thing we got notes from the editor, this should be scarier. I think the kids need to understand this. But we wrote what we wanted to write. And it's based on your growing up dyslexic and not knowing it, correct? That's right. Yes. And, you know, being resourceful and hopefully funny,

And just never getting with the program. Isn't it amazing that in the era that we grew up, that there was no, that no one would catch that. Nobody. You'd be like, oh, well, he's slow. Hey, he doesn't, doesn't really read well or whatever the hell it was, but no, it wasn't even in the consciousness to look for that. Honestly, even today, the schools do not want to recognize it for the most part because it costs more money.

Oh, right. Parents are embarrassed. Their children are not up to snuff. The children act out and sometimes become unruly because of ADD or frustration or embarrassment.

you know, I was the class clown. So it happens today. I mean, just how out of, let's say out of a hundred kids today, one out of five, one out of five, 20% of the population testing in the third grade determines the number of prison cells that are built because 56%

of everyone incarcerated has some sort of learning challenge and they kind of fell through the cracks. If you could have a magic wand, what would be the fix? You know what? There is no fix because it is all DNA. It's wiring. It's hereditary. It's passed on. Maybe it skips a generation and then comes back again. So it's a matter of

If I could fix something, this is such a good question. If I could fix something, it would be tolerance. Why do we make such demons out of people who are just trying to live their life? That's what I would change, tolerance. It is true. It is true. It's like-

I feel just worried about what was right in front of us. I got enough to worry about in my life before I worry about everybody else's. How is your family? You know what? Thank you for asking. They're, uh, they're great. My wife, Cheryl is, uh, crazy and lovely and wonderful. And, uh, we're great. We had our 30th wedding anniversary this year. Oh, congratulations. When, uh, it was in July and we had a, a very big party and it was very fun. And, um, my boys, uh,

John Owen is a writer on Lone Star and just sold a show to Netflix. Oh, wow. And Matthew passed the bar and is now working in a VC. Isn't that great? Yeah. So he's like, one is a real job in the real world and the other is in our phony baloney world. But it's all good. They're great.

But listen, we're watching 1883 right now, and I just wrote a fan letter to Taylor Sheridan. Oh, of course. Amazing. He's amazing. Oh, my God. You've seen Wind River, right? Yes. Have you ever done a Western? Yes. I produced a show for MGM Television.

maybe 24 episodes called the dead man's gun. Really? Whoever picked up this gun in 1874, their life was changed forever. Wow. In the episode I was in, I was a button salesman. I found this gun. I drove into the town and,

or rode into the town. And all of a sudden I became the feared sheriff of that town. It's a great concept. Until I finally get rid of the gun and then somebody else found it on the side of the road, picked it up and

their adventure story. How great Westerns are so much fun. I don't, I I've done one. It was with the late great Bill Paxton and we played the James brothers, Jesse James and Frank James. And, um, I'm, I love it there that there are so many Westerns out, out there. And this, this whole, what I love about, um, yellow, uh, Yellowstone and all of these is like, I was just reading research on it. You know, it's the biggest show on television. And in,

So Nielsen delineates the markets of the United States into categories. So there's the A markets, the B markets, the C, and then a D market is the A markets are San Francisco, New York, Chicago, right? And then it goes on down for the first, I think two seasons of Yellowstone. It was not in the top 50 in any quote unquote, a market. And in the D markets, it's,

It was explosively huge. So this is something that grew from truly the heartland and now has made its way into...

the the zeitgeist it's like the fancy people can't ignore it now well let me tell you i i didn't watch it for the longest time we powered through four seasons couldn't wait to get back to them each time we uh you know we went for our day job came back in the evening to watch and i wanted to be on that ranch oh don't you i want i mean nothing has made me want to wear a fleece vest more and

And Costner is so great. I've always been a huge fan. He's my neighbor up here in Santa Barbara. Will you give him my warmest respect for that? Oh, I will. And how about, what was her name? Emily Riley, is that her name? Yes. Holy mackerel.

It's just a great show. I mean, by the way, your show, Barry, is pretty goddamn good and a whole other. I mean, I'm obsessed with it. How did you end up on that show? I was in a meeting with my business manager and my wife. We were estate planning. Always, always fun. Yeah, it's so fun to estate plan. Oh, my God. Just the best. And then you have that meeting with your grown children and they all say, what is he getting?

What is she getting? You're all getting the same. But we're still here. Thank you very much. So anyway, we've left the building. We're driving down Ventura Boulevard in North Hollywood on the other side of Los Angeles. I get a call. You're on a short list. Bill Hader. Bill Hader. Wants to meet you doing a show for HBO. HBO. Okay. I said, I only have one question.

Is Dustin Hoffman on that shortlist? Because if he is, I'm not going in. They said, no, he isn't. I said, okay. Weeks go by. Weeks? I'm thinking my name has slipped off the fulcrum. I am no longer in the mix. I get a call. Bill Hader. Hey, I just wrote two scenes. Want to come in and play? Not really, Bill, because...

If you're calling me because the first one was good, I'd like to leave it at that. Yeah, exactly. I said, sure. I go in. Weeks go by. I get a call. Would you like to be in the show? Yeah. And we just finished the third season. Good Lord. Yeah.

Isn't it amazing how long a process takes? Oh, yeah. One of the prerequisites aside from talent and being able to memorize and being somewhat friendly, patience. Yeah, because you never know when the phone call is going to happen. You know, but I'll tell you something, Rob. That's another important thing. You just said something that's great.

You can't sit by the phone. You've got to get on with your life. There's part of you that goes, well, I'd like to leave the house, but maybe you've got to. Otherwise, you will disintegrate in anger and distress forever.

And you will just, you'll petrify like wood in the forest. It's that thing of, if you really want the phone to ring, go out and create something on your own. That's right. That may or may not get done and may or may not be a conflict in the phone. And also make sure you plan a, and hopefully better yet prepay for a vacation. Cause then the phone is definitely going to ring and it's going to be Steven Soderbergh saying, Hey, yeah,

I got like a 10-day thing. Do you want to do it? And you're like, well... Right? Isn't that the way it always happens? It always is, except he's never called me. There's plenty of time, kid. You're just a young puppy. I have a question for you. You better hurry up. Back in the day, I... When my... I had my very first agent ever. Who was that? It was the Anne Wright Agency. And they used to... And they were like...

They were like, Henry Winkler is a client. Were you ever a client? Because they sold me on you. I was a client. My very first agent was Joan Scott. Oh, I'm sorry. It was Joan Scott. I'm so sorry. It was Joan Scott. It was writers and artists. I'm sorry. It was Joan Scott. It was Joan Scott. When I was at Yale, I was dating a girl from Louisville, Kentucky, Margie Kesselman. She was on Broadway or off-Broadway. She had an agent and said, I'll introduce you.

And in my, one of my first lessons of show business, they said, well, Henry's not with her anymore, but she still gets the commissions on happy days, which made me laugh. She had a, an assistant in New York city, John Kimball. Yeah. So John Kimball said to me, if you want to be known to New York, stay here. If you want to be known to the world, my instinct is it's time for you to go to California. Yeah.

Wow. And I had $1,000 from commercials that I had saved, got on American Airlines. A week later,

I landed Happy Days with seven lines. That's an insane story. And Fonzie at that point was a day player on the show? Being a workaholic, I couldn't go out and have fun on the other four work days. I sat in my apartment and I could only play Saturday and Sunday. That's amazing.

So you never properly embraced the LA out-of-work actor where you go get a Jamba Juice and you run the Santa Monica stairs and then maybe you get a nice coffee somewhere and you get on a bike. I can honestly say, Rob, I have never run

the Santa Monica stairs, I passed by it once and felt really tight. Your calves tightened up just looking at it. Oh, man. Well, you know, Gary Marshall was very important to my career as well. And as I know, he

You know, I mean, listen, he made you in many ways for sure. Without a doubt. Absolutely. I would never be here without him. Did you was Bobby Hoffman casting for Gary? Oh, my God. He was. He brought Robin Williams to the set.

On a Wednesday, when we shoot on Friday, no one wanted to play mark for mark. Bobby brought this new kid he found. Wow. Robin Williams.

Bobby was one of my earliest fans, casting director at Paramount, but did all of Gary's stuff. And people forget, I mean, because, you know, Gary had such a great movie career, particularly late in life. But, you know, he owned, owned network television. Yes, that's right. Owned it. Did you always want to be an actor? Yes. From the time I was eight.

And where did you grow up? Ohio, Dayton, Dayton, Ohio, and saw a community theater, went with my parents. It was Oliver. There were kids in it. And it was like I was it was like a bad out of a bad movie transfixed lightning bolts. Yeah. The Choir of Angels.

And I knew that's what I wanted to do. And my parents were like, yeah, kid, whatever. I don't think anybody took it. Why would you take it seriously? Some eight-year-old in Dayton says they want to be a serious actor. Nobody did that. And yet it all happened. You know, it just dawned on me that you and I work together on... Parks and Recreation. Parks and Recreation on...

form an avenue into Luca Lake where I lived for 20 years starting in 1980 with my family. I remember your home well and I remember working with you it was great we had you played John Rolfio's father yes the great John Rolfio Ben Schwartz who I've had on the podcast and is a genius and

And Jenny Slate, I've also had on the podcast. Those two, how funny. Do you remember you and I were having like a regular-ish scene and those two lunatics were popping up behind you? Do you remember how amazing those two were? My entire reason for living at that moment was just to keep a straight face. Yes.

What about, have you, Ben Schwartz, one of the great improvisers of America, invited me to be at the Stand Up Citizens Brigade. Upright Citizens Brigade, yep. Right. And I stupidly said, sure, I'll come to your night of improv. And then I watched them. And then I thought, I am so out of my league.

Oh, I'm obsessed with this because I've always sort of had this fantasy of I should I should drop by Upright Citizens Brigade. Is it do you just do you just feel like you're trying to catch a high speed freight train? You know what? That is exactly the feeling there is. The back of the stage is a brick wall.

And I literally stood against the brick wall trying and no hyperbole trying to fade into it because I'm watching these masters and they're, I don't even know how they are that lightning speed coming up with off the cuff. It was crazy. When you're doing Barry and it's so well-written and you guys have great characters and you have somebody like hater,

who's also great at improvisation. How much do you play? Because in Parks and Rec, as you remember, we would do the scene as written. It was always really well written. And maybe you'd add a wrinkle here or there, but then you'd do a take where you just went for it and you did whatever the hell came to your mind. They called them the fun runs. Do you do anything like that? What's the process like? The process is it's written beautifully.

They both Bill and Alec are so clear about what it is they want. And in structure comes freedom. Yes. I add Lib at the moment because it just comes to me and answering from my character talking to the other people in the scene. And, you know, it's in when you see Bill laugh, you're acting with him and he starts to break. Yeah.

I love that. I love when you can see, you know, when Amy Poehler would direct Perks, you would just hear her cackling. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great feeling. It really is.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. You've always loved comedy, always been so funny. When I was looking at my research, this tells you how network television has changed.

and how it truly was a palace of idiots for the most part back in the years. They didn't want Fonzie to wear a leather jacket. They put their foot down. They weren't having it. It wasn't over their dead bodies. They are not having a character wear a leather jacket. Is that right? That is true. That is true. Why? Because they thought I would be associated with crime. And then Gary Marshall went to ABC.

And said, you know, he could be hyped if he is riding his motorcycle. And they said, okay, he can wear his leather jacket when he is in a scene with the motorcycle. Gary then went downstairs and from the phone booth in ABC, because there were no cell phones, really. He called the writer's room at Paramount Studios. He said, never write a scene with,

without the bike again. That's why you see me wheeling it into Arnold's or it's in my apartment or it's, you know, against the wall, broken apart in the Cunningham household. Okay. There's so much unpack there, but my favorite is it was on the air in the seventies and eighties. Right. Okay. So you mean to tell me in 1979, if I saw a man, uh,

With a leather jacket on. I was like, oh, he's going to rob me. He's wearing a leather jacket. Right. That's what the network's logic was. Literally, that was their logic. And then it became the symbol. Every child had a plethora of jackets. But just before we move on from this, because it's too good.

The first appearances of Fonzie, you're in like not a madras jacket, but you're in like a windbreaker. McGregor golf jacket. A golf jacket. It's the best. So let's write this tough street guy. Because, you know, those guys are just all over the golf courses in the 50s. This is the tortured logic of network television. It's a little better.

But like there was there was a while on CBS when no one could have any facial hair, no matter what they were playing. If they were playing the Unabomber, no facial hair. Yeah, it's amazing. You know, the the executives are they're such a an interesting breed of human beings. Some of them are great with story.

Most of them are filled with fear because they only last, I think about 19 months. You know, there are some who have gone over generations, but,

for the most part, they come and go like, uh, you know, party water. When I had Ron Howard on the show too, he, and you know, Ron directed me in a pilot presentation, not even a pilot. And, um, it was called thrills and chills. And we jump run. And I always laugh about it. It's a miracle that we're both in the business after that debacle. Um,

But he was very, you know, very sweet about you, loves you. And the fact that you two were able to negotiate the show turning into The Fonzie Show, which it literally did. And they wanted to call it, I think, The Fonzie Show at one point. Yeah, literally, they asked me about it.

And I said, no, thank you, because it is such a slap in the face to all of the people that are part of the ensemble I am a member of. And without them, the Fonz would not exist. So we're fine. If it's not broken, don't fix it.

Right. Was there a moment where you realized that that character had become as iconic as it was? Because I grew up watching the show. I watched it every night, every Saturday or Friday, whichever it was on. I can't remember now. But I mean, every kid in the world was saying it. It was the first breakout character I ever experienced as an audience member. A came from what, as I worked through it,

and wanting to be very cool and very contained, A, I used it to reduce language. Ooh, hey, look at that. She's beautiful. Hey, I'm hungry. So I could reduce paragraphs to a sound. I was asked to come to Little Rock, Arkansas,

to sign autographs for the newspaper there at the mall. There were 3,000 kids in 50s clothes at the airport. And I thought, oh my God, there's a party going on. And they said, that party is for you. That's when I knew, wow, something's going on.

That's insane. And everybody at Halloween dressing like the Fonz. Yeah. In our business, there's a phrase called jump the shark. Yes. Most people I'm assuming listening to this podcast are interested enough in show business to have heard it or know what it is. And the theory is, is that it's when a show in the long life of the show takes things too far, never to really recover from.

they've jumped the shark. Right. Jumping the shark comes from when Fonzie jumped the shark. Yes, that's right. On water skis. On water skis. So it's a real thing. It happened. You did it. You, I mean, you've done so many things in your career, but like to be responsible for not only one catchphrase, but the other, jump the shark, is amazing. Rob, let's not forget

Whoa. Oh, of course. Whoa. That's right. Get over here. Whoa. Whoa. I watched the jump, the shark sequence yesterday, the whole sequence, not, not highlights the sequence as it plays out on television. I don't know if you've seen it recently, but first of all, it is vintage network television in the seventies. Right. They keep cutting to people going, Oh,

He's headed towards the ramp. By the way, you can see you headed towards the ramp. He's about to jump. You know he's about to jump because you're clearly there to do that. He's going to go over the shark. Like, they keep cutting to the members of the cast talking about what you're actually doing and you can see you doing it. It's unbelievable. And by the way, it goes on forever. And they keep cutting to the shark. But the shark...

You're water skiing at Paradise Cove in Malibu. It's clearly Paradise Cove, Malibu, where everything was filmed. By the way, I grew up during that time at Paradise Cove on Point Dume. Everything shot there. It was magic. But the shark, when they cut to the underwater, it's clearly in the Caribbean. There's fan coral everywhere.

It bears no resemblance to it. It's an amazing game. You haven't seen it. It's a great sequence. And you would, I jumping the shark. I've seen that famous footage a time, but what I'd never seen is that amazing shot where you ski out of your own skis on the beach. What the hell?

So I learned to water ski in Mayo Pack, New York, one hour outside the city. My parents lived above their means. We had a summer house. Amazing. All my friends had boats. We went water skiing. Then I became a water ski instructor at Blue Mountain Camps in East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania. So now we're doing this with the water skiing and water.

At a certain moment, I let go of the rope. I ski up on the sand. I step out of the skis. Half the smile on my face is Henry going, I did it. Oh, my God, I did it. The other half of the smile on my face is the Fonz going, I did it. All right. That's yeah. All right. That's good. Get over here. It is absolutely amazing.

Mind-blowing. And my big trick is that I can start sitting on a dock. That's a good one. I can't do that. Yeah, that's it. I'm a pretty good water skier, but I'm not that good. You didn't do the jump, did you? No. That was somebody from Florida, a stuntman. They would not let me do that. Yeah, I can't imagine it. By the way, you look better doing this ski up to the beach thing

which is clearly you than the stuntman does. The stuntman, he made it look like Fonzie. I mean, he does not look like a professional water. It looks like a dude that tried to jump a shark to Gary Marshall. Can you remember him pitching it? And he's like, we're going to do a thing. It is a shark and it'll be good. And you'll be the, that, I mean, did Gary pitch you the shark thing? You know what? It sounded very much like that. Probably everything that he said. And the, the, you know,

What is amazing about this man that was so important in our life is that when you would go and visit him, he finally bought a theater in the Valley here in Los Angeles. And he had an office with all his memorabilia and he would tape up as he was talking to you. He would ace bandage his knees because he never wanted to stop playing softball. That's right. But out the door.

Down the street were young writers and actors and directors who just he had made an appointment with in order to give them advice. He was so generous. He gave my wife her first job as a makeup artist. He was at my wedding and very, very small wedding. He when I got married.

Wayne's World. It was my first sort of, you know, big, serious comedy. Gary did a free rewrite of all my dialogue for me. Oh, my God. Of course, then when I I never told Lorne Michaels that, but I just used the ideas as my own.

And I couldn't get Lauren to go for any of them. Maybe I should have told them they were Gary Marshall's free rewrites than they would have been in the movie. But such a generous guy, the amazing story of him losing a fortune with his business manager and then gaining a fortune back.

Yeah. It's just amazing. I'm telling you, I'm one of the luckiest things in my life outside of my family and finding fly fishing is Gary Marshall. I want to talk to you about fly fishing. I love, I love fishing. I've only been fly fishing a couple of times because I'm never in the areas where they do it. But whenever I've done it, it's,

It's amazing. How did you find it and what about it appeals to you? My lawyer, I was his first client. Jesus. He said, I'm going to take you down the Smith River in Montana with Stacy, your wife. And for a week, we floated the Smith River. I didn't catch much at all. I had no idea about the technique.

But no pun intended, we were hooked. And since then, we have gone every summer at least twice, now in Idaho. And it's just, I don't know, it just is like a washing machine for your brain. The only adult book...

I've ever written is about everything that I learned from fly fishing that I applied to life. And then photographs that I took, you know, while I was on the river. Oh, beautiful photograph. That's by the way. And the title is one of my favorite titles of a book ever. The title is. I never met an idiot on the river because people who fly fish are just incredible human beings.

men women children it's amazing i have very good beginners luck fishing at our lodge um which is uh um the lodge on the palisades and in idaho if you catch all the species that day in a row uh you get a t-shirt damn nobody gave me a t-shirt but i did do it now on a another tangent you did you do the um

I want to make sure I got this information right. Catherine Hepburn's last project. Am I crazy? I did. It was Truman Capote's One Christmas. She wanted to talk about John Wayne. I held her lines on cardboard just under my chin. Amazing. What?

It just didn't matter. Just Katharine Hepburn. That was an honor. Not only did you work with her, I knew there was something I wanted to ask you. You gotta tell me about directing Burt Reynolds. So I'm directing Burt Reynolds and Norman Golden, a wonderful young actor who's seven years old.

And we're at Burt Reynolds' house. There's a party before we start shooting. And we're waiting for him. And as he's walking down this staircase in Clearwater, Florida, he said, Winkler.

I just got off the phone with Ron Howard. He said, I can fire you at any time. I looked up at him and I said, sir, could you let me know kind of soon? Because I've got another film lined up right after this and I could start it sooner. Suddenly he was quiet. Now, one day he comes to me.

We're doing a scene. And out of the blue, halfway through 65 days of shooting, he said, I'm directing the kid. Oh, no. OK, I'm not sure how that works, but OK. And I whisper to Bert. I said, after the young man says, but the fish is cold. Let him take a breather and then then go on and finish the sentence.

He turns, he says, hey, when you say when the fish is cold, stop and then finish the line. I am directing the child through Bert. Amazing. Now we're in this is one of my favorite stories of my career.

Where in looping, you go into the studio and you mouth the line again so it fits in the lips of your performance.

So it's clean of all other sounds. Bert said to me, you just tell me to go faster or slower. I'll know what to do. That's how you direct me. I said, okay. He does a line. I said, Bert, do it a little faster. He is drinking a small bottle of water. He takes this bottle, which I don't believe is filled with water, and throws it across the looping stage.

And turns to me and he said, if you weren't so short, I'd rip your head right off your shoulders. And I said, Bert, I have never been so happy to be this short in my life. He said, all right. And then all of a sudden he was a lamb. ♪

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton honors membership required for 15% discount. Terms and conditions apply. Has there been any other legends that you've crossed paths with? I sat right next to the late, great James Stewart and his beautiful wife. And they wanted to fix me up with their daughter. Wow.

And he would lean over to me and he said, do you know, do you know who that is? I kind of forgot. And I said, oh, yes, that's Robert Richum. Oh, yes, that's Claire Danes. And he literally, I literally laughed.

And walked him through who was coming into the room as we sat at the table. Oh, what a great, you were his prompter. I was. It was one of the great honors of my life because, you know, it's a wonderful life, let alone everything else. And he's Stuart.

Robert Mitchum, on the other hand, sat at our table, came in, sat down. He was so drunk or something that he was using words of the language, just not in any order you could understand.

Oh, so we're walking down the street. Ron Howard and I are walking down the avenue on Paramount lot. This is the side of the, of the lot that was at one time Desilu. Yes. All of a sudden leaning against the doorframe of the, of the mill where they built all the sets for Paramount movies was Robert De Niro. Ooh, yeah.

Ron and I stopped and we said, we got to say hello. We got to say, we don't want to bother him. No, but we got to say hello. So we walk up and we introduce ourselves and go, my God, it is such a pleasure to meet you. I get really tongue tied. I love meeting people that I love watching. And I said to him, the first movie I ever saw in Hollywood when I was here that I was invited to was Mean Streets.

And I said, Mr. De Niro, you use the word fuck better than anybody I have ever heard in my life. Cut to 45 years later. He's in The Intern, directed by Nancy Myers, who is a friend of my wife's. We go in New York to the premiere. We go to the party.

He's there. Robert De Niro is there. I walk up to him and I said, Robert, I'm so sorry. I've got to take a selfie with you. I've got to be like every fan has ever been with me. I have the selfie. We took the selfie together and he said, you said I use the word fuck better than anybody in the world. I said, he remembers what I said. Wow. All of

Wow. I couldn't believe it. Did you ever do the Kenley Players? I feel like you did. Yes. I was going to say that when you said you grew up in Dayton. Dayton was one of the cities. Now, as an eight-year-old Rob Lowe, who knows nothing about anything, with the Kenley Players, it was like the Oscars. It was like you could not believe anything.

that the Fonz, Henry Winkler, was coming to Memorial Hall to do Under the Yum-Yum Tree or whatever the hell it was. Right. It was called Room Service. Room Service. It was the old farce Room Service directed by Jeffrey Blechner, who was a student at the Yale School of Drama with me. You know, my brother Chad, who I know you know,

I do know. Chad was doing a documentary on John Kenley and went to interview him and John was not comfortable telling his story and going on camera and then passed away like two weeks later and it never got done. But I'm obsessed with John Kenley. I want that story of his life, what he faced, what he did. Talk about a trailblazer and just the notion of all of these ginormous, ginormous stars.

running, not you, I'm sure, but running roughshod through the Midwest in the summers.

I mean, unbelievable. It was unbelievable. It really was. There were three cities, Columbus, Dayton, and Warren, Warren, of all places, of all places, you know, and they were barns and they were packed to the gills to the gates. It was it was a wonderful experience. And he would come in.

And like a rocket, he could kick his leg over his head. And then he would say, cut 20 minutes and walk out. That was him producing. Meeting him in some big office at Memorial Hall in Dayton, Ohio. It's like a 15, 2000 seat cavernous barn. And he looked like, my memory was he looked like Cesar Romero as the Joker in Batman. And yeah,

He was perfectly nice, but like, I'd never seen anyone like him. Yeah. Oh my God. And so you did, you did one Kenley, one show that one show, one show and toured my friend from drama school. Mark Flanagan was in it. Didi Khan was in it.

I don't remember. I don't remember any anybody else. But Jeffrey Blechner directed me for CBS. Henry Winkler meets Shakespeare. Oh, I like that.

That was, you know, and I have no business. I'm telling you now, honestly, I really have never done Shakespeare. I know my limitations. I'm so dyslexic. I can't get the iambic pentameter. I don't know. I can't. On our honeymoon.

We went to England and we saw Stratford-on-Avon. We saw the Shakespearean company in England and we,

I never heard Shakespeare like that in my life. It was like a conversation and I totally got what was going on. I had never heard it before and I knew I could not accomplish that. See, I think you'd be great. You may have, you may have trouble memorizing it, but I think you'd be awesome. You'll win the Tony for it. You do it and you will win the Tony for it. I'm telling you, when do you, what's, what is the latest thing you, so, uh,

Season three is in the can. Yes. We're reshooting next week a few scenes, and then we start season four somewhere in April. That's coming up quick. Yeah. And I did these in movies. One is called Family Squares. This is how it was done. I had a furry microphone that recorded when you pushed. I had three cell phones that were on tripods.

I had a laptop, a square light. I walked around with the cell phone all over my house for the director of photography who was somewhere else because it was right in the middle of pandemic. I acted with Margo Martindale and Judy Greer on the phone. She was sitting in some Winnebago in her driveway and

It was like crazy and crazy emotional talking to these people, not because of the experience, but the scenes. And it became a movie and it's going to come out sometime called Family Squares. I love that cast. Yeah.

I love it. I'm a big fan of yours. Always loved you. You've always been so nice to me and known your family. That's not very difficult, is it? You'd be surprised. You're a lovely man. And one of my favorite things about Parks and Rec was working with you. I think you also were the doctor that told Ann Perkins and I that we were having a baby. You were a doctor, right? Yes. Yes. That's right.

I delivered all of the babies on that show. I came for one episode and Michael Shore kept writing for me and I want to publicly thank Michael. He's the best. Yeah. Will you come on our Parks and Rec podcast I do with Alan Yang?

And it's a super fun podcast. And when your character makes his first appearance, I would love to have you come tell all your stories about that. Okay. Excellent. Well, there you have it. That's my guy. I'm glad that I was able to put this out again in case you guys missed talking to this amazing man, Henry Winkler. I will be back next week with an all-new episode of Literally. Literally.

Don't forget to give us a great rating and review, by the way, if you're so inclined. And I will see you next week.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Nick Liao, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar, researched by Alyssa Graw. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and myself at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd, music by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally with Rob Lowe.

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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