Sarah Silverman: Raised by Wolves
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Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally. I'm excited today because Sarah Silverman is on, and I feel like we're like ships that have passed in the night but never properly collided, and I'm a huge, huge fan of hers. She's currently on tour, the post-mortem tour all over the U.S. right now, and she, of course, has her podcast, the Sarah Silverman podcast. So let's get at it.

Oh, Rob. Oh, Rob. You're kind of giving off, I mean, she was the ultimate shiksa, but you're giving off like Mary Tyler Moore vibes, I think. That's my dream. I never put that together until just the second. Oh, Rob. That's all I can do. That's pretty good. Lou. No. Mr. Grant. Mary. Lou. Lou.

With your Ted Knight and my Mary Richards. Oh, can we make this happen somehow? We know people. Yeah. I would definitely want to play Ted Knight. What was his name? Ted Baxter. Ted Baxter. Yeah, like everyone had their own name. I guess not Gavin McLeod. I never understood what Gavin McLeod was doing on that show. Like, was he like... First of all, not that it matters, of course, but what was his...

sexuality on that show. No, he... One, he was married. He got married to Marie. Marie and Marie. But also, he was in love with Mary. Because remember, he finally tells her, and he goes, Mary, I love you. And she doesn't know how to handle it. And she goes...

And I love you too, Murr. Murr. Oh, God, you're so good at this. She took it like as she made it like into a friendship love. Friendship love. How are you? Hi. I feel like we like have not spent enough time together. No. Are we really? For two old showbiz salts.

And with so many friends in common and so many like tangential stuff, we've just like, I don't know. I feel like the fates have been thwarting a Lowe's Silverman sort of partnership. Why are they keeping us apart until now? Until this moment. Are you loving doing your podcast? Yeah, I do. How do you go at it? Because my thing is like,

I'm excited. I get like a, you know, a briefing thing, but I'm excited to talk to you. I was like, oh, Sarah, fuck yeah, this is gonna be great. And then I just always feel like the conversations are super fun. Do you like ever like have set questions that you're bringing in for anybody? No, because my podcast is, I don't have guests. I only have...

people call in. Oh my God. Amazing. So, yeah, I have like, I'm, and you've got bookers and everything in it, but for some reason, just like the idea of like,

needing to fill a guest, you know, um, slot every week is gives me like nervous agita. Yeah. So, um, I, I just wanted to do just talk and then have people call in. And then that really was it. That makes the trajectory of the podcast. I thought it was going to be a funny podcast and it's

It's gotten like people call in with really heavy stuff. It's crazy, but it's really interesting because I never know what direction it will go in. Does that mean you have to be live? No, no. People call in and they click a button. It's on speakpipe.com. They just click and leave a recording up to a minute and a half. But we get like people call back to say how things went or they, you know. Oh my God, that's insane.

So you end up being like part-time psychiatrist, I'm guessing. Kind of, but a lot is over my head that I'll be like, this is above my... Pay grade. It is above my pay grade. But then callers call in that listen to that and have answers.

And it's just become like this whole community of people that help each other. It's so sweet. And then some ridiculous, funny, weird things too. Do you find there's a reoccurring theme? Like you go, oh, there's a lot of people who are interested in X, Y, or Z. A lot of family dynamics. Yes. Yeah. And just adult parents, adult kids and adult parents and those dynamics and everything.

Like the separation of politics and how to navigate that stuff. And, you know, as like Thanksgiving comes around, it's like, how do we sit together? Blah, blah, blah. And just connecting. I think as a comic, one thing I can do is like, it's our job to connect with people live, no matter who they are, what their beliefs are, what's the fucked up thing they've has shaped them.

Just like us. You're super, I mean, obviously, I'm a huge fan of you. You're super funny. I saw you absolutely murder at, I guess I want to say it was Seth Rogen's charity. It was like five, six years ago, right? Sure, yeah. So funny. I mean, you told jokes that I don't have the ball. I would never be able to even tell on this podcast. They were so in your face and hilarious. How do you get so...

I don't know. It's the kind of thing where, like, you push a boundary and you go, I made it through that boundary. I'm going to push a little bit further in this next boundary. Because your Jesus joke, do you love Jesus joke, was bonkers. Oh, I think I know what you're talking about. Oh, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's about God.

Yeah. I think I just was raised by wolves and didn't understand basic boundaries and then saw that it was unique in the real world. What is what? I feel like people, well, you're younger, you're substantially younger than me, but like we're of this, it's the same era. And I do feel like so many of us were raised by wolves. That might be a great, there probably already is a podcast with that title. It's a great podcast.

Because we all... There were no helicopter parents where I came from. How about you? No way. We were out on our bikes, and it would be pitch black when we came home. Well, pitch black, and nobody ever asked where we were. No. Or cared particularly. I mean, look, they cared. Of course they cared, but they were just like, what? No, I had very... Well, I was...

I was a good kid, but I definitely lied to my parents and said we're going to the movies and we would like drive to Boston and they would never even, you know, they weren't like thinking about it. You know, we just came home whenever and we went to the movies. They don't want to know. Your mother was McGovern's campaign photographer. Is this correct? Yeah.

Yeah, in New Hampshire, New England area, you know, because everything started in New Hampshire. And so she was the... It's so funny. She was a photographer on the McGovern campaign and she... My sister found an article that was written about her about this, like, who is this young woman, woman photographer and everything. They only ever called her...

Mrs. Donald Silverman. Like, her name isn't in it at all. And my dad had nothing to do with it. You know, he's a retailer. But that was her name, Mrs. Donald Silverman. Jeez, that's insane. Isn't that funny? That sounds like your version of Mad Men that you might need to do. That was when America was great, you know? I met McGovern. Wow. I have a picture of me selling Kool-Aid for McGovern with, like, play cards and everything. We could really pick the winners, couldn't we? Mm-hmm.

I think he carried one state. One. Which state? One state. He was from, look, I feel like he was from one of the Dakotas, but I'm pretty sure he carried one state. I remember learning the term landslide as a kid.

But my earliest political memory was he was speaking at the courthouse in Dayton, Ohio, where I grew up. And I was so tiny that I could walk under the police barricades without anybody seeing me and somehow made my way up to him. And I have this memory, you know, like when you have a perspective memory that you know you're short. Like my memory is I looked up to him and he was...

what, 100 feet tall. And I pulled on his raincoat. He had a Columbo raincoat because that's everybody had in those days. Yes. And I pulled on his Columbo raincoat and said, I hope you win. And he looked down and said, me too, son. Ha.

Oh, my God. That's such a cool memory. Isn't it funny how, like, everything— I remember way back when Adam Carolla pointed out, and it's so true, he said, everybody thinks that their dad's penis is huge because you see it by accident when you're three, and it is. Oh, my God, that's amazing. Yes, that's true. It's like, do you remember Uncle So-and-So? Oh, he had a huge dong. We saw it at a campsite when we were five.

Come on. It wasn't John Holmes. He was just a dude. He was just a dude on a canoe trip. Come on. Let's...

Let's get real. Where are you living these days? You're an LA girl, right? I am. I mean, I think of myself as New York, but I'm completely LA. I always lived in an apartment. I just got my first house. Oh, boy. And it's a lot. A lot of maintenance. You can't just call dad and be like, hey, Edgar, my refrigerator's broken again. But it's also kind of like euphoric. I don't know if it's... I mean...

I mean, do you wake up and kind of wander around and go, oh, my God, I can't believe that this is – I have three more rooms than I did in my apartment. Yeah. Oh, yeah. My boyfriend and I live together, and we're just like, can you believe it? But weekends are just all –

house maintenance, you know? Ugh, I mean... But I have to say, my boyfriend Rory described himself this way when we met. And usually when people say, I'm the kind of person or whatever, you're like, no, you're not. Like if you have to tell people, but it's so true. He said...

I'm a dad without kids just looking for a lawn to mow. And that is exactly who he is. Like, anytime I'm looking for him, he's like on a ladder fixing something or working on it. He's been out. He went out of town. He FaceTimed me so I could show him the grass. You know, he's so into like getting our little patch of grass. What is it with men and grass? It's a real thing. Like, I will. Here's what I love. I love watering plants.

Like, making sure, like, and, like, pressing down the sod and making sure. Like, I can't get enough of watering sod. You would have loved yesterday in our house. Really? He's just been replanting everything.

You know, re-watering stuff, putting stuff in new pots or get, you know, like, yeah, it's very exciting. And then if you see like a little growth, it's so rewarding. It must be a primal thing because I remember my dad doing it, his dad doing it. Like, I remember as a kid being, are you ever going to stop fucking around with that lawn already and take me to get to the Jerry Queen? What's going on?

Dairy Queen, is that an East Coast? Yes, 100%. Yeah, because the Dairy Queen was a very big part of our lives growing up in New Hampshire. There's a great comic from Dayton, Ohio, Beth Stelling. Oh, yeah, I've seen her. She's great. Brilliant, yeah. There's a lot of cool people came out of Dayton. The Ohio Players, love Roller Coaster, right? Yeah.

Fire, those great R&B songs. You know those songs. You're giving me a look like you don't know them. What song? Give me one. All right, let's see. Let's see.

Let's see. The way you walk and talk really sets me off to a full-on lime child. Yes, it does. The way you squeeze and tease knocks me to my knees because I'm smoking, baby. There you go. That was very good. That wasn't terrible. It really was. It was like the whole vibe. I remembered it. It took me to a place. Right? Fire. The best thing about that, I love the kind of...

What's the correct term? Urban legends that we had when we were kids. Like I'm kind of obsessed with them. I mean, well, one big revelation. There's no red dye that happens if you pee in a pool. Oh my God. Why would anybody put that in their pool? That on top of urine, you're going to have red dye to contend with? No. But then people go, no, no, no, no. I have a friend.

Did you see it? Were you there? Because everyone has a friend. But I remember in my world, it was always when you went over, because that was like the highest thing is like, can you find a pool in the summer? It was like all, it's all you cared about. From the minute you woke up, you're like, I need to get into a pool. And

You know, you had to find your fancy friends, right, who had pools. And, right, it was a 24-7 job. And then the fancier they were, the more petrified I was that they would have the red dye chemical in the pool. But it's not a real thing. It's not real? I don't think so. Why would anyone do that?

Just to humiliate little children? Yeah. That's just something you... It's like Santa. It's something you tell children to control them through fear. Yeah, to bring them to heal. Yeah, like if a kid pees in a pool, it's just the chlorine will like... It's gross, but it's, you know, chlorine will like get that stuff up. But red dye. Yeah, it was always red too. Why would you... Think of like... I would do a different color because the water's kind of bluish looking. Red would be like...

I would want, I don't know. Make it purple. Well, everybody was very obsessed with red dye in those days. Red dye number two. That's right. Right? Number two, as opposed to red dye number three or red dye number eight. That was safe. Red dye number eight, you could eat that all day, no cancer. Red dye number two, you're calling an oncologist if you had a cupcake. Yeah. Right? If you have red dye in your number two, you have to call a doctor. Then you're done. Yeah.

You have to tie a little, if you ate beets the day before, you have to tie a little string around your finger so that you don't go to the emergency room the next day. What did I do? Oh, yes, that's what... No, but the urban legend I grew up with was the Love Roller Coaster, the other Ohio Players song. There was a murder that was captured on the song, which is like my favorite thing ever to think about how dumb I was and how dumb people... It's any...

recording studio. It's like the most soundproof. And it was like, no, no, there was a murder in the other studio. And you, cause you can hear a scream, but also it's like, it's called love rollercoaster. Right. It never occurred that maybe the scream is meant to be a rollercoaster. No. And I'm telling you right now, there are people in my era all through the Midwest going, yes, the murder, the love rollercoaster murders. Of course. What about, um,

There was like the Bubblicious Bubble Yum Wars. And so they said a woman fell asleep with, huh? Oh, mine was spider eggs. Yes. A woman fell asleep with what, Bubblicious in her mouth? And when she woke up, spider eggs and baby spiders were all in her mouth. What is that? Okay, that's a great one.

So that was just Bubble Yum putting out a lie about Bubblicious or vice versa, I don't remember. I heard it was Bubble Yum because that was the new kid on the block, remember? Because Bazooka had been around forever and then all of a sudden we had this thing and it was like so, like viscous would be the word.

Yeah, because it had fucking spider eggs in it. Wait, what was the one, oh, freshen up, that had liquid in the middle? Oh, the one with squirt in your mouth, that one? Yeah. I mean, don't look at me. It's what it did. It did. Get your mind out of the gutter, listeners. I'm just telling you what it did. Where else can you go surfing and skiing alone?

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Ohio is known for being the heart of it all, not just because of its location, but because of the focus on things here that matter the most. Family. Community.

More and more companies are building their businesses in Ohio or relocating because they see the opportunity to pioneer innovation in a place their people and their families will love to live. The cost of living in Ohio is 11% less than the national average, which means your paycheck goes further for all the things you love to do. Not only will you save money, but you'll save a much more precious resource.

time. The average commute in Ohio is just 24 minutes, meaning you get home quicker to be with people you love. I'm from Ohio. I don't need an advertisement to tell me how great Ohio is. My whole family is from Ohio. My grandpa ran the Spot Restaurant in Sydney, Ohio. Greatest hamburgers and pies in the world. Thank you very much. It's still there. Started in 1911. Lots of great stuff. It's

Allow yourself to imagine living the good life in Ohio and see what it's like to live, work, and play in the heart of it all and find even more reasons to make the big move at callohiohome.com. Finding the perfect gift can be pretty overwhelming. You always want to make sure you're giving gifts that people actually want. This year, give timeless gifts made from premium materials with Quince. Quince lets you treat your loved ones and yourself.

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Think about this. Like, we'll go back to, like, I'm living in Ohio. You're living in—we're in the middle of nowhere, basically. New Hampshire. New Hampshire. Did you know that Jim Neighbors married a man? No. Like, in those—like, 1972, I'm, like, watching Gomer Pyle reruns, and somehow it makes it all the way across the country—

to eight-year-old Rob Lowe watching his black-and-white TV gomer pile that that guy married a man. And we're like, no way! That's impossible! What? How? Why? And, you know, years later, I meet Jim, and he was one of the first, like, guys who was openly out. But how that made it to Ohio, I never—

It was the weirdest thing. Well, because it's just gay was just so, you know, it's like, you know, we'd watch Liberace or like Paul Lynde in the center square and be like, that guy is so funny. I bet his wife, he keeps his wife laughing all day. You know, like, it's just like, we just didn't know. And I was obsessed with Paul Lynde. Obsessed. The funniest. There's online, like,

links to just like all his one-liners and zingers, and it's so good. Now, is this telling you that there's no Santa when we realize that

He knew the questions in advance. And so had all the zingers ready. Does that dilute it? I don't think it dilutes it. I don't think it does. No. He was so funny. I love the way he talked. But that was a whole cottage industry of guys like that. Rip Taylor was another one. Okay. Yeah. I've totally gone off topic. Let's go back to...

This is one I will not elaborate on. Are you familiar with the urban legend that was going on around Rod Stewart? Did that make it to your- Of course. And it was Rod Stewart. Was it Rod Stewart? Yeah, he had his stomach pumped. He had his stomach pumped.

I want to go like, what did he ever do to warrant that? He chewed fresh enough. He chewed fresh enough, but he's just like rock and roll. He's minding his own business. He's great. He's making hits, amazing music. We all love it. And then I'm 10 years old and I'm thinking that he got his... How does that happen? I don't know what the rules are on this show, but I mean...

I don't think anyone can guzzle too much cum that they need their stomach pumped. That would take months. I mean, that's just, that's a lot. That's a lot. I don't know. Okay, so then... And then Richard Gere, of course. I mean, that's just like insane. But everybody, it was like a memo went out. Like how did culturally before the internet, that's the other thing that's amazing. Yeah. Before the internet...

And all of a sudden, like overnight, everybody's like, did you hear about? And everybody thinks they know. And it's insane. And it's usually something that is almost clearly physically impossible. And we're like, oh, yeah, no, I have a friend who was in the operating room or whatever. Right. I have a friend of whose friend. Was who peed in the pool and it turned red. That's right. And they were they were mortified.

Yeah. It's just a huge expense and a huge cleaning expense to embarrass a child. That's what adults do. Yeah. 100%. We could put this chemical in that will just clean the urine, or we could put a chemical in that will make the pool even dirtier and we

It won't clean the urine. It just turns it into a color you can see. Oh, yeah, I'll do that. By the way, public pool, when you think about public pools, could there be a more disgusting? Really, think of, I mean, the concept is pretty gross. I mean, honestly, I don't know what's dirtier, urine or, I mean, what's worse for your body, urine or chlorine chemicals. Yeah.

Oh, man, how about the chlorine headache you'd get if you went off the diving board? That's the other thing that was insane. I don't know about you. When I grew up, they had high dives, like legitimate, like Olympic high dives. And you could be a six-year-old climbing directly up a ladder, straight ladder, no handrails, soaking wet, 10 kids below you. So if you ate shit, you'd knock them out. And no one cared about

How are we alive, honestly? Well, and the other question is, are our kids just so incredibly soft?

Because they didn't have to ever navigate any of that. Yeah, but they have to navigate a whole new thing that we would never be able to even fathom, like social media and shooting, school shootings, you know, and like war and division like never before. You know, it's like I grew up in New Hampshire with all Republicans, right?

They were all my best friends and everything. We thought being Jewish just meant being Democrat because that's how we were different. But I mean, today it's like, I'm sure that still is, you know, but it's, I don't know, it's a very different world. Do you remember the rush of being in like, I'm making a fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade, when somebody, when your kiss a guy would hand you a note and

And you just be like, get the fuck, are you? And like opening it, it was always folded like origami. Oh, yeah. Right? And then my favorite, do you like me? Yes or no? Like kids, they don't, I don't think our kids get that. They don't get notes. They go to their DMs. Such a bummer. I know. Well, now they're taking kids' phones and like putting them in those younger pouches. Right. Which is... Great. Probably great. I was talking to a couple kids yesterday

yesterday. And I always have a million questions around teenagers. And I go, I asked them about the phones and everything. And they go, oh, well, they put them in pouches in the day. And I go, oh, that's great. I go, do you feel like that's great? And they were like, yeah. But I do that when I'm on tour. I'm on tour pretty much right now. And like,

They put them in those yonder pouches. And this woman who worked in the lobby said, they put all the phones in yonder pouches before the show. And she said, it's so interesting just watching all these adults not knowing what to do with their eyes or their hands as they don't have phones. And the show hasn't started yet, and they're in a lobby. And they're just like, have to exist in the world again. You know, like-

They don't know what to do with their hands or their eyes. It's depressing. But everybody's as guilty as the next person. That's the thing. 100%. I'll be like,

I'll be like, people are just glued to their phones. It's really sad. It's really fucked up. And then I'll get like the, my average hours on my phone. And it's not good. It's so embarrassing. The average hours is horrible. Not good. I do not want that information. I don't want to know. It's,

It's bad news. Tell me, walk me through your participation in the copyright infringement of AI. I am fascinated with this. Yeah, I think I can. Yeah, I'm like, I'm at a point where I'm not sure what I can talk about. I think I can talk about it.

I mean, it's in the, it's, yeah, it's, it's, I'm just one of many. You're one of many. So let's set the stage and I'm really, this is for my own edification because I'm super, super fascinated with it. But like you are part of, it's sort of, if it's not a class action suit, it certainly feels like one. It's a group, right? Yeah.

Certainly seems like it's heading that way because people keep joining and are starting their own lawsuits. You know, like the New York Times started one and then like John Grisham and a bunch of other authors. And so eventually it will all be one, I'm guessing, you know. But it's a process, but it's basically...

And a lot of times if it's written about it, it will be like Sarah Silverman's lawsuit. But I'm just one of many. I'm just a name that people know. Yes, you're just a cog in the legal machine. Yes. So it's, you know, AI is the future. It's going to happen with or without us. It's going to hopefully wonderful things and things in medicine and things that where it does jobs nobody wants or whatever that people. But they educate people.

The AI. Yes. The AI wasn't born knowing everything. That's right. They have to educate. That's right. They load information onto it. And so they use many, many, many, many, beyond many books that are copyrighted and that people wrote. You know, like I'm in this lawsuit with authors that subsidize their income by teaching and are, you know...

These are journeymen writers and all sorts of authors. They stole these books to educate their systems. They used our books without our knowledge, without our consent, without any compensation, whatever, even if it was the...

price of the book, you know, but you can't do that. It's not legal to do that. And then you go, this notion of AI is,

really isn't um it's not art it's artificial but it isn't really intelligence it's it you're taking the works and thoughts and ideas of human beings and just divorcing them from those human beings and having a different price tag on it so it's it's like right now i could i could say to ai i could say write me a um a best man speech in the voice of sarah silverman it would do it it would

It would do it right now. Yes. So you have to ask yourself, how did it learn to write like Sarah Silverman? And the answer is, it's digested

a lot of your work. I mean, that's the most simple way to put it in. It's undeniable. I don't think anybody denies that. Yeah, I don't. It's like, to me, it's so simple. It's just that. And so that's all. It's just, you know, tech is the Wild West. You know, their slogan is move fast and break things. That's how they do it. They love it. They're proud of it.

But it takes a long time for regulations to catch up to that to protect people, you know? How did you get to be so on the cutting edge of it? I'm fascinated. Like, did you have a friend who was a part of it? Was somebody in your representation? Like, how did you know enough, basically is what I'm asking you, to be a part of this at such an early, early stage? Because one of the lawyers I went to high school with. I knew it. And was...

most brilliant kid even in high school. And I always looked up to him and he reached out and was, I'm a part of this and you, your book was used and, you know,

And do you want to be a part of it? And I said, yeah. How did he know? I mean, I'm sure it was because everything was used. So you don't have to prove your book was used or he knew the book was used. I'm faster. Because I'm asking, I've written two books. They probably use my books. I want some. Yeah, you can find out. I think there's like a website where you can look it up. I bet they did. I'm sure. They use everything. I mean, they have the ability to do it. That is fast. I'm sure you probably can't talk about the...

the status of the case, but it's ongoing, right? It hasn't been settled yet. It's ongoing. And more people are going to join. I mean, don't you think where it ends up is they create a pool and that everybody is entitled to a certain percentage of the... I'm just trying to think of how you...

Well, let me ask you. You're very, very smart. They have to ask. They have to ask. I mean, it's just like anything else. It's copyrighted. No, no. Well, that'll be easy. It's intellectual property. They'll do that. They'll do that. That will be the easy gift. I'm talking about the people that, like, already have not been asked. How do you rectify...

I think the notion that you have to ask is going to be, there's no way around that. But the question is, has the horse left the barn? It has, but also, but the horse left the barn, I can't say with that analogy, actually. I mean, they just, they did it illegally. So, I mean, I don't know. I get it. They are...

the richest entities in the world. And we live in a country where that's considered a person that can influence, practically create policy. Yeah, for sure. Let alone influence it. So yeah, it's going to be tough. And this sounds like the most obvious sort of reference ever, but I was talking about AI with people and they were saying, yeah, it's like when Gutenberg invented the printing press, the printing press didn't

didn't also create and write its own books while it was printing. And I just can't even imagine what our world is going to be like in two years, let alone 10. It's going to be... Well, I mean, the wild thing is, it seems to me, and, you know, I can be real smart and I can be really dumb, so... Same. I don't know, but it seems to me that

AI is replacing so many industries and so many people, and you can see how fast it's going to happen. And we're also really heading towards as a country that's really conducive to us being...

very, very rich and extremely poor and nothing in between. And like, unless until there's, that really makes you go, well, we have to have

universal basic income. If AI is taking over so many jobs, we have to take care of our people, which is already like a challenge in this country. The notion of universal basic income, like even a year ago, I was like, wait, what? What? And people are like, what? But then when you start working through it, you go, yeah, what are we going to do?

do with, you know, with everybody who's had those jobs and, you know, it's going to, look, this is not any good. That doesn't take, it's not going to take anything from the economy. If anything, it's going to help. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. I've never been like a huge universal, but yeah, yeah. You know, a lot of countries really thrive on it. It's just basic needs. And then you go, well, nobody will work. Yeah, they will. They'll want to make more money than that. Or they'll want to pursue things that they're passionate about.

Could you imagine if, you know, the bulk of society could actually pursue things that they were passionate about? I mean, or then I can also imagine. I can also imagine folks are like, I'm just going to sit in my synthetic suit that Meta just put out.

That touches every part of my skin and put my goggles on and I am going to go to town with, you know, pick your girlfriend for the evening. You know what I mean? Like, I'm having a date with Sarah Silverman tonight in my cubicle.

And that's my life. That's already a pretty high number of people living in their parents' basements right now. And when you can go all over the world and go, you know, I feel like I want to do, I want to swim the rapids of the Grand Canyon. And you do. I mean, I don't know, man, it's, right?

That sounds kind of cool. Who? How about when you get to choose your favorite, you get to create your AI actor. Like you go, okay, I want to watch, you know, a movie I love that I haven't seen in a long time, The Color of Money with Tom Cruise and Paul Newman. But you know what? I'd like to see it with Miles Teller.

And you know what? I'd like to be Paul Newman. And the AI just does it. It's already there. I mean, if you see the examples, it's crazy. But it's really scary. But it's also amazing. I mean, I hope that good things come of it. But I sure hope regulations happen to not take advantage of people, especially people that are...

This is their livelihood. It's interesting to watch how quickly it's learning. And now you can, like I did, I saw Josh Hartnett, of all people, starring in a version of Paper Moon. What? Oh, yeah. Josh Hartnett. I saw it with my own eyes. It sounds insane, by the way. It sounds like a fever dream.

He's playing the Ryan O'Neill.

But it's clips of the movie. It's not the entire movie. And he doesn't speak on camera. Like, if you really break it down, the lips don't move yet with the voice connected. And that will be the next thing it'll learn. And then eventually it will be the entire movie with Josh Hartnett. And I didn't even choose Josh Hartnett. Do you think the algorithm knows something that I don't about, do I have a thing for Josh Hartnett and I don't know it? It could be that. Yeah.

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Macaroni, the San Francisco treat. Now, do you have any interest in and I'm not I'm not speaking out of school. It's been all over. It's been probably talked about that there's going to be a deposition of Zuckerberg and in the in the big case. Don't you want to go to that?

Did you go to it already? No, no, it hasn't happened yet. I don't think I can go to it. I'm not allowed to go. Why are you not allowed to go? I'm really happy about it. I play lawyers on television. I can tell you as your TV lawyer, you should be entitled to go. Really? You're a plaintiff. I wonder when that is. I am your TV lawyer. You are a named plaintiff in said case. It is your right to be present or at least...

zooming in on the deposition. Has to be, right? Am I missing something? I'm going to ask about that. Dude, you're going to call your high school friend and be like, yo, I want to be in that shit.

It literally is the Aaron Sorkin movie. It literally is. You have to ask him how much of your, you say, I need to know how much of your intention we have and see if he gives you that amazing Aaron Sorkin speech about, you have exactly 5% of my attention. My intention is back at the offices of Facebook. My intention is to see if he talks like Aaron Sorkin. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. The best. What a great movie. West Wing. West Wing was just the best.

You know, I can't remember who said this. I think it was my old, an old boyfriend, Michael. But it's like the thing about West Wing is like every single character just wants to do the right thing. Right. Yeah. What a fan. What a wonderful. Everybody was so, every character wanted to do the right thing. And every character was, although they could be funny and cynical, they

in humor, their essence was 100% earnest. Yeah. Can you imagine? You know what's interesting is two interesting West Wing factoids that I always like to share that people don't really ever think about is there's never a president mentioned post-Kennedy. Ever.

Isn't that interesting? Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah, the theory being that the closer you got to real time, if you mentioned Nixon or McGovern, that it would trigger people's sense that the West Wing isn't real.

That's a really smart thing. I think that's true because we were watching something, a narrative show like this, and they mentioned something real, like something that's in the real world. And my boyfriend was like, that just took me out of it. It ruined it for me. I was in this world as real, and now I'm being made aware that it

that it isn't, but it's made by people who are writing from this world. Yeah. But it's so interesting, so smart. And the other one is I don't think there's ever, well, anytime anybody came in with new information to share with another character, I think the other character already knew about it. Like you never hear anybody say, "I didn't know that," ever, ever. Right.

It's so bizarre. So you get the drama of the reveal, because that's the reason you're writing in the first place is you need to tell that character this new information because it propels the story.

But what you never get is that character being unawares, ever, because they always had to be the smartest people in the room. I heard. I know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. No, always. It's like, yeah, CJ told me an hour ago or whatever. It's like, isn't that funny? They're never like, oh, I didn't know that. Mr. President, thank you for telling me that. So crazy. What a show. It was a good one. You should have been on it. You'd have been great. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I met Aaron Sorgan once. I don't know if I can do this on this podcast. Oh, you can. Anything involving Aaron, we can do. We have his rights. No, listen. I mean, just the timing of it because I need you to participate in how... Okay, so I'm just alone at this party and I see him and we kind of... We walk towards each other and I go, oh, I'm such a fan, you know? And, you know, he's very nice and we have like...

like a paragraph of conversation, you know, whatever. And then at a natural like kind of midpoint, I think we're going to go deeper and he ends the conversation at the same time. So like when I go like this, say, great to meet you. Yes. And what? Like as if you're walking away. Okay, ready? Great to meet you. Are you happy? Oh, okay. I'll give you one better. I was like going deep and he was like, nice to meet you at the same time. Oh, oh. No, no. When he's done, he's out. Okay.

And I was sitting in, we were in the Oval Office with the president of the United States at the time. Oh, in real life. Yes, Bill Clinton. And the West Wing had just come out and everybody was excited about it. And Bill Clinton was, it was Aaron and I standing in front of the Resolute desk, Clinton behind the desk, and Clinton is pitching a,

for the West Wing. By the way, a show he claims he never saw. He claims he never saw it for whatever reason. I mean, it was clear everybody else had, but he was like, yeah, like he never said he saw it. Everybody else in the White House was like, I love it. I watch it. I love it. I watch it. You get to the President Clinton, nothing. But he was pitching episodes. And...

So he pitches the episode, and Aaron literally goes, well, you're a busy guy, and I don't want to take up any more of your time. And turns around and left. And I like run out and go, you just chilled. You just chilled the president. That said things, done. Like small talk, like there's only so much small talk a man can have. That is some good awkward. You want to hear President Clinton's

pitch? Yes, please. I think you guys should do a story about all the young people that come here and they give their lives and their time and they work for nothing. They work for bird seed and they come up here and they're working and working and they go to a bar and then maybe they meet someone from the media and that person just shit boxes them. And I was like,

I'll never forget it because it's the first time I'd heard the term shitbox. And it's also, it's one of those stories that, I don't know if you have those in your life where you've told it so many times over the years that you begin to question whether it actually ever happened. Right. Did I dream that? Did I dream that? And, but I... I mean, we can imagine who was in his head at that moment, perhaps. Yeah, that was the pitch. Yeah.

It's not a bad pitch. It's not a bad pitch. It just shitboxes them. I could have played that intern. I was probably 24 at the time. Oh, could you have? Oh, can you imagine? 21. When was that? I met Lewinsky on a plane. She's wonderful. She's wonderful. She's great. But this was at the height of it. The height. At the height. And the West Wing had not come out yet. And I'm on this plane and I look, you know, you feel somebody's eyes on you.

And I'm reading episode one of The West Wing. Episode one. Wow. Super excited reading it. And I feel someone's looking at me and I look up and three hours up is Monica Lewinsky looking at me. And I go back and my script has the presidential seal on it.

So I have it open and that's what she's looking at the seal of the president. And I'm thinking this has got to be so fucking awkward for her. This has got to be a nightmare. And so I get I go back to reading it. I forget all about it. I get up to go to the bathroom. I forget she's even on the flight. I get up to go to the bathroom. Somebody's in it. I'm waiting. I'm waiting out of the bathroom. Monica Lewinsky. We're now literally nose to nose.

And we kind of look at each other and I just said, hey, listen, it's nice to meet you. Just so you know, there's a show coming out about the White House and about the president. And we're not doing anything about that stuff. Just I just you don't need to worry about that. That's so sweet. And it's just so kind of you. Right. Because I could just imagine. Right. Yeah. And she was super, super nice and just super smart. And what a weird. Right. That's a weird moment for sure. Wow. Wow.

I mean, I just think about, like, I remember I played Monica Lewinsky on, like, an episode of Politically Incorrect. Amazing. And just knowing her now and looking back on that time. Can you imagine being a kid? I mean, you're a kid. You're just, like, going through, like, your first, like, sexual awakening. And everyone in the world knows everything. I mean, I just want to say, look, talk about, you know she's unsophisticated when she was wearing berets in public. Yeah.

No. The beret. And you know what? She grew up into this unbelievable woman who's like,

So important in this moment in time and the grace in which she has led her life since. I just, she's, I think she's great. So you played her on real time. I honestly didn't remember. And then they had like a 15 year anniversary of it. And I was watching of Bill Maher or whatever, and it had a clip of it. And I went, oh my God, that's me. And I'm playing Bill.

It was some sketch. I don't remember. It was like a day. I don't, you know, it was like. No. I didn't think anything of it. 50th anniversary. SNL. It's coming up. Oh, yeah. Can you imagine? Can you imagine the angst, the agita, the stress, that whole community, many of whom we all know and love very dearly. People were there. People weren't there. People were there for two seconds. People got fired. People became stars. People have talked to this one. Yeah.

The craziness that is going to transpire behind the scenes is going to be off the charts. Were you at the 40th one? Get this. I was at, this is scary now, I was at 25. Of course. Oh, my gosh. I hosted on 25. Oh, my God. I wrote there when they were doing the 20th. Oh, my God.

They were working on the 20th. It was because I was there in 93, 94. So it would have been, the book came out in 95. Yeah, yeah. Was that the 275? I mean, crazy. It's going to be nuts. It's going to be nuts. Yeah. I mean, I can't even, I've already talked to people who are like, you know, everybody has their, you know what it is, Saturday Night Live is people's college, high school, where it's,

Do you know what I'm saying? Where it's like all that stuff that you go through that you probably wouldn't even have affected you four years later in your life. And you carry it around and it's just, it's such a thing. And everybody has an ax to grind or a story to tell. And it's just nuts. It's nuts. And it's affected everyone in our culture, you know, like it's, yeah, what a crazy place. Yeah.

Have you ever done a really complicated seating arrangement at an important event? Can you imagine what this is like? Can you imagine? I can't imagine, but I remember the 40th was incredible. I was sitting next to...

Diane Sawyer and Candace Bergen, and I don't drink, but they were sharing a beer. And I was like, sure, sharing a beer with Diane Sawyer and Candace Bergen. Don't mind if I do. I mean, that's what it's going to be like. Who gets the bad seat? Who gets the seat near the kitchen? Who doesn't get the plus one? There's a time. Look.

I'm just making that metaphorically. Right, all right, in the, like, seating map of your, yeah. Who gets, who gets, I mean, who gets to sit at the monitor with Lauren and the Amstel Light? That's right. It's going to be, it's going to be, I want, I don't want the show. I want the show behind the show. Yes. I want, like, I'm not sure if Dennis Miller should really do...

five jokes on update. I'm feeling like we're going to do more of a memorial to Norm that's going to take up that time. And then I'm thinking, do you know what I mean? Like, that's the fucking shit I want to hear. Oh, my God. That's right. Norm. Norm. Funniest human being who ever lived, maybe. Oh, my God.

Maybe I was, I was like very much in that, very close in that world during that time when they were like, you must stop making jokes about OJ. With the OJ jokes. It was a real thing. That sounds, again, it sounds like an urban legend now. It wasn't.

It was not an urban legend. He was under, like, enough. The network doesn't like it. And, you know, I think we've done it. I think we can move on. That's the last thing you, I mean, that's like telling Norm, do more. Yeah, he hears do more tonight. Yeah, of course. And I happen to be, like, watching, I watched Letterman that night that he was fired, that he was on Letterman. And, you know, so it was like,

It was, I just remember standing there in my room, just watching him like, oh my God, like what a way to break news. And he like literally walked like what across the hall. He's like, okay, I got a fire at me. Okay. And just like walked over into Letterman. It's, it's, the whole thing is insane. Amazing. Has the Norm documentary come out yet? And I haven't seen it or is it not out yet? Because I know there is, oh, it's not out yet.

It's not out yet. Oh, good. Not out yet. Oh, I can't wait. Cannot wait for that. Can't wait. And it's all just archival footage of Lorne, of Nora. Oh, that's the best. Yeah. Yeah. Gonna be good. This is what I call sprawling. We have gone from Richard Gere rumors to...

AI to Saturday Night Live. West Wing. West Wing. There were some... Politics. Politics. Nostalgia. Universal basic income. I mean, you know, when you and I are cracking universal basic income, you know the brain trust is on the fucking case. Yeah.

Noted economists, Rob Lowe and Sarah Silverman. Sarah Silverman and her PlayStation headphones. I was going to say, those are really, really impressive. They are PlayStation headphones, aren't they? Yes. You'd think I would have a system by now of doing Zooms at home, but no, I'm like. What's on your wall, by the way? I love those album covers, pictures. What is that? It's wallpaper. Oh, they're photos. They're photos.

They're so great. Yeah. Like family photos and stuff. Oh, okay. Blown up. I like it. Well, this is so fun. Thank you for... I'm happy to return the favor. Oh, you don't have guests. Oh, I'm going to call in. I know. What if I call in... Okay. How long would it take...

you do you think to discover? If I called in as a fake person and just, oh, let me do this. Let's find out. I'm just saying, I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but I'm not saying I'm not going to do it. Just be. I think it's speakpipe.com slash the Sarah Silverman podcast. Just be aware that it might. But also you can do voices. I'm saying, just be aware it might be me. When you've got somebody, you're like, I don't know, something feels a little fishy about that caller. It might be me. Fuck.

Please, please let that happen. I'm going to start thinking about what I want, what advice I want, what my doppelganger advice wants from you. Okay. I've got something now to power the room. Can also be comments. Can be comments. Can be comments. Noticings can be questions. Well, thank you for coming on. It was great finally spending some time with you.

I know. I know. Feels like I've known you forever. I know. We have so many mutual friends, you know. I tell you, too. Well, I don't know about you. I want to be at that Mark Zuckerberg deposition. I'm going to follow up with her on that. I must know how it went, and I must know if my phony baloney TV attorney credentials are still valid. I passed the TV bar. The TV bar I passed, not the real one.

And I think she's entitled to be there, but I'll let you know and I'll follow up with her. Don't forget Sarah Silverman podcast, wherever you get your podcast and she's on tour right now, post-mortem tour. And I'll be back. I will be back next week on Literally. Apple five-star reviews, if you're so inclined, are super helpful and would warm the cockles of my frozen little heart if you're happy to do it. And I'll see you next week right here on Literally. Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar and research by Alyssa Growl. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant. Sports and Culture by Devin Bryant.

Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.

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