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cover of episode Gillian Tett on Complex Derivatives and the Fifth Stage of Capitalism

Gillian Tett on Complex Derivatives and the Fifth Stage of Capitalism

2025/6/19
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Odd Lots
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People
J
Jillian Tett
J
Joe Weisenthal
通过播客和新闻工作，提供深入的经济分析和市场趋势解读。
T
Traci Alloway
Topics
Traci Alloway: 我和 Joe 最近和 Kaiser Quo 的一集节目中，Joe 透露了他开始对复杂的金融产品感兴趣。 Joe Weisenthal: 我认为我们与 Ricardo Hausman 合作的一集节目最具影响力，他认为复杂性是好事，是富裕经济体生产复杂产品的标志。生产复杂产品是经济体变得更富裕的标志。也许我们需要重新思考，以新的视角看待市场为何愿意为复杂金融产品的创造者支付如此高的报酬。或许我们应该为我们的金融创新感到自豪，更加积极地拥抱它们。社交媒体和通过入侵我们的注意力来销售广告的产品，难道就更好吗？或许现在是时候重新思考金融在世界上的积极作用了。 Jillian Tett: 我接受过文化人类学家的训练，这教会我，作为人类，我们都被文化环境所继承的假设和观念所包围，这常常使我们对世界中被忽视的事物视而不见。社会沉默非常重要，我们不谈论的事情才是真正重要的。从 2005 年开始，我注意到报纸和政治家痴迷于股票市场，有时也关注信贷市场和债券市场，但实际上，推动伦敦金融城收入增长的是衍生品和信用衍生品，但没人谈论它们，因为它们似乎很乏味。那些看起来枯燥乏味，以至于我们不讨论的事情，往往是世界上最重要的事情。我对伦敦金融城和华尔街的这个阴暗面非常着迷，它们就像冰山一样，人们谈论的是露出水面的部分，也就是股票市场，而阴暗的部分则被大家忽略了。我想解释金融创新，看看究竟发生了什么。事实证明，它比我预想的更具欺骗性、挑战性和戏剧性。信用衍生品和其他衍生品以及复杂的金融产品之所以存在，是因为人们想要使用和购买它们。它们提供了一种表达金融理念、进行押注和投资的方式，这种方式比使用其他金融工具更灵活、更微妙、更多面，有时也更便宜。衍生品的作用有点像用 Photoshop 处理照片。你可以购买 ETF，也可以选择昂贵的巧克力商，或者只拍摄你喜欢的巧克力的照片，然后用 Photoshop 将其修改成你想要的任何一种。这本质上就是一种衍生品。

Deep Dive

Chapters
This chapter begins with a discussion on the recent shift in perspective regarding complex financial products, moving from a negative view post-GFC to a more nuanced understanding of their role in wealth creation. The hosts introduce Gillian Tett, an expert in finance, as the perfect guest to discuss this topic.
  • Shifting perspective on complex financial products
  • Complex financial products as a sign of a wealthy economy
  • The role of complex financial products in wealth creation
  • Introduction of Gillian Tett as an expert guest

Shownotes Transcript

After the GFC, there was a lot of angst over the fact that so much effort and brainpower went into designing complex derivatives, and other financial instruments. Not only was this seen as wasteful, the complexity was deemed to be the heart of the crisis, and therefore bad. But all these years later, looking back, how bad is financial complexity really? What do things look like from the perspective of 2025. On this episode we're joined by Gillian Tett, a columnist at the Financial Times, and also the author of several books including Fool's Gold: The Inside Story of J.P. Morgan and How Wall St. Greed Corrupted Its Bold Dream and Created a Financial Catastrophe. We talked about her reporting on the evolution of financial derivatives, their legacy, what she is concerned about now, and why she sees the world entering into a new, post-neoliberal, fifth stage of capitalism.Only Bloomberg.com subscribers can get the Odd Lots newsletter in their inbox — now delivered every weekday — plus unlimited access to the site and app. Subscribe at bloomberg.com/subscriptions/oddlots)

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