How To Be A Friend with chef Christina Tosi
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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm also Lacey Lamar. Just kidding. I'm Amber Reffin. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. This season, we make new friends, deep dive into my steamy DMs,

Answer your listener questions and more. The more is punch each other. Listen to the Amber and Lacey Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen, okay? Or Lacey gets it. Do it.

I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years.

If you've ever tried a tasty treat from Milk Bar, or tried the cereal milk ice cream from one of the Milk Bar bakeries, or watched Bake Squad on Netflix, or taken part in the Bake Club on Instagram, or read Dessert Can Save the World, or read any of her other cookbooks, then you know Christina Tosi.

She is the powerhouse entrepreneur behind the Milk Bar brand, and she's also a dear friend. Instead of talking about what it takes to build a dessert empire, I thought we would go deep on this one and talk about what it means to be a friend. And it turns out the single most important thing is learning how to ask for help. This is a bit of optimism.

The best part about doing a podcast with you is that I get to talk to you. And I get to see you. On work time. Yeah, this is considered work. Hey, Simon, it's a real job to be your friend. What does that mean? I'm just joking. I'm just joking. Because we both love what we do for a living and it all makes the most sense when you get to say

My favorite people to spend time with outside of work and chill life are also people like that. For me, that's how I know I'm on the right track professionally. You are famous because of Milk Bar. You're famous for your Netflix TV show. You're famous for your books, your cookbooks. The new book's called Dessert Will Save the World. You talk about those things a lot, but

There's a Christina Tosi behind all of that magical stuff that I have the deep honor and pleasure of knowing. And I thought that would be a place for us to go today. Okay. Anyway, I'm just going to jump right in. So here's the milk bar question I have. I've never asked you. I can't wait. How did you come up with cereal milk ice cream, which is honestly one of the greatest gifts to humanity? I would put the discovery of penicillin...

And cereal milk ice cream way up there. I agree. That's very sweet. For me, it's like that, you know, when you do something that's like bigger than yourself in a way that's like,

I don't know, it just kind of happens. And my only job is to be the conduit for it. Yeah. In life. For me, cereal milk is the representation of making someone that angry person eating ice cream on a bad day, just making them feel like seeing and loved and trust somewhere at some point in their life where they felt like calm and safe and trusted and seen.

without any of the other, this is my name or this is what I do. There's like a sacred moment that happens, I suppose, in a bowl of cereal at some point in all of our lives, no matter what the cereal is.

Of course, dessert makes people happy. It does the thing. Dessert's a sacred space. Aside from a tasting menu only restaurant where someone's going to serve it to you, dessert's an opt-in course, right? It's something people choose to do, not something that people have to do. And I take that choice seriously.

Like I take it seriously. I take it personally. That is a sacred, sacred space. I love the fact that you think about that dessert is a discretionary course. So you're not actually competing against other desserts. You're competing against let's get out of here and go watch a movie at home. You're competing against, oh, I've put on so much weight. You're competing against like all

All of those things. You're competing with people's emotional neuroses, like their dark sides, meet their emotional child, meet their intellect. You're in the middle of an argument largely in someone's head or some brilliant resolution where some of it's just like in the head, be quiet, we're going. We're going to milk bar, we're doing the thing. So I'm going to change subjects on you. This is a dramatic shift now. This is a dramatic shift of key. We're going to go from a major key to a minor key.

I regularly on this podcast will talk about vulnerability and I will talk about during COVID that I made a rule with all my friends that there's no crying alone. I talk about this idea of no crying alone. What I don't ever say is that during COVID, you and I called each other more than a couple times and cried together. And I...

I remember the first time you called, you were going for a long walk. You'd left the house. You were in a difficult place. It was a difficult time. And you said, "I could go to my husband, but he's also in a difficult place and I don't want to add more to his plate. And so do you have a minute?" I don't remember the conversation at all, but I remember we cried together. I always adored you and I've always been a fan of yours, but it was on that day

this friendship became real. It was set in concrete, you know? It went from fun to solid. Do you remember that day?

You know, it's funny you ask because you're saying this in my head. I'm like, Simon, I remember the tree I was standing under. I remember the way when you walk and you kind of almost walk like a soldier where you sort of like take your heels up a little bit because I was just sort of like grasping for straws. And I remember the phone ringing and I remember hearing your voice. Like, I remember where I walk. I remember those steps. Why don't people call?

a friend in need, you know? I mean, here we are. I trust you with everything. I would call you and tell you I'm struggling. I would call you and tell you I'm hurting. I would call you and tell you I'm flailing. I would call and tell you I'm confused. I'm lost. I would call and tell you all of those things. And I want to know why other people don't.

I have friends who don't call other people in times of need. And they have this weird sense of, I don't want to burden anyone with my problems. Or there's shame or embarrassment attached, especially if somebody considers themselves a high performer. I was going to say, there's probably part of it that also is, if I say it out loud and I have to hear myself, one, that makes it true. And two...

Making it true means I have to admit it and then grapple with it and deal with it. And if you're talking about high performers, you're talking about people that implicitly don't want to admit defeat and confusing vulnerability with defeat, right? It's probably like number one reason why people that are high performers struggle. And then also if you're a high performer, the second you say it out loud and you acknowledge that it's a thing, then you have to go out and solve it. And if you don't think you have a solve for it,

It's too big to even conceive of stating out loud. Though, of course, the irony is saying it out loud, releasing yourself of it to someone that is trustworthy,

is oftentimes half, if not so much more of the grappling with it and dealing with it and taking one. Like taking that first step is oftentimes so much of getting through it, getting into it, making way. It's decompartmentalizing because thinking it, you can, it's still ethereal. It's a thought, right? Yeah. But by saying it out loud to another human being, you're decompartmentalizing and saying,

This is a real thing. And you can't escape it now, right? That's it. You put yourself on notice. Yeah. You put yourself on notice. And that's a very scary feeling if you don't have the solution ready and lined up for the problem that you're putting out there. But that's the whole point of decompartmentalizing. My experience with you is the most beautiful part of our friendship. Like, why did I call that day? Why were you the person that I called? Because it's not like I tried six other people. Like...

I went on a walk. I knew I was going to call you. The reason I knew that you were my person to call was because of the conversations we were having beforehand, which is you not only gave me the space for vulnerability, but you gave me language around the fact that like when we're having like our high times and our high moments.

You always have this beautiful way of saying like, man, when we're high, we're high, but let's not forget that we can't feel high always, right? Like we're going to feel grounded and part of feeling grounded means that we're going to dip below feeling level set and grounded.

That happens and it's frequent. And when it does, let's not run away from it. And it almost made me feel stronger to call you to say, oh shit, I'm having a moment. There's an insight here that is really important. Most of us, and we're all guilty of this, present company included, right? Most of us offer to support our friends when we see that they are hurting or in pain.

Which is like calling to buy insurance while the house is on fire. And the insight is, is that we ignore the possibility of hard or bad times with ourselves or the people we love. We ignore them in the good times because why would we? It's like when the stock market is rallying, nobody thinks about it crashing. And the one thing we did, probably by accident...

in the high times and the celebrations and the high fives, we were prescient enough to say, hey, isn't this amazing? But remember, when this feeling goes away, we have to be there for each other. In other words, we bought the insurance early. You knew you had a policy. I had my Simon Sinek friend policy already executed, babe. It was filed away. I knew I had it. You just had to be like, I know it's in here somewhere, right? This is huge that

In high times, we're not Debbie Downers by reminding people, hey, this isn't going to last. We're writing insurance policies. Such a good insight. And it's applauding the high times and being like, but to be clear, no matter what the time is, I'm always your friend. There's no fair weather here. Of course, things are great right now. And to be human is going to be that there's going to be a time in life. And I want to show you what our friendship really means.

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For decades, the Mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

Discover how a group of young prosecutors took on the mafia, and with the help of law enforcement, brought down its most powerful figures. These bosses on the commission had no idea what was coming their way from the federal government. From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcast, this is Law & Order Criminal Justice System.

Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is in

I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words.

that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Were you always good at asking for help or is it a skill you had to learn? I'm in fact terrible at asking for help. I'm great at being vulnerable in certain moments with certain people and the rest of the time I plow through it. What is the reason you don't want to ask for help?

It's a pattern for sure. But I think probably the tricky part of like, depending on where you're at in life, the things that made you successful, oftentimes are the things that hold you back once you get to certain tiers of, you know, air quotes success. And I think that's part of it, right? To be an entrepreneur, you have to be determined, you have to go at it, like, always stay in the game, never quit, figure it out.

and be okay that sometimes help doesn't come and you still have to succeed. And then all of a sudden being grown up and being like, oh, if I want the richness of life in surround sound, I have to invite other people in. I'd like to call bullshit, if I may. I know entrepreneurs who don't ask for help.

And they can only reach a certain level because they have to be in every meeting, they have to make every decision. And you can't achieve what you've achieved in the scale that you've achieved it without being forced. Even if you did it kicking and screaming, but you had to delegate and you had to let go and you had to ask people to do things and own things and run things and take accountability for things because you physically could not. Nobody can achieve scale without...

maybe not asking for help, but getting it. Part of the getting help for me is that you have to be fearless as you're building. And then you have to be fearless when you're scaling and you invite other people in to the party, truly into the inner circle. You have to really trust and be fearless about the fact that people are going to fail. You're going to fail. People are going to let you down. You might let people down, whether you're trying to or not.

And just having like an emotional vigor about you that says no matter what happens, I'm going to be okay. Perhaps it's for me, I'm being very literal about that. I need help. Will you help me? Delivery versus getting help. And the fear of like being like, I need help.

and what it implies because that's actually the like the help me feels like I'm drowning the help me for me feels like I don't know how to swim I'm drowning I'm in over my head as opposed to the curiosity of inviting other people to the table and saying tell me more like what don't I know tell me more you know one of the things that I've learned is that there's two ways of asking for help

Most people think asking for help is, and you said this before, is the admission of defeat. And so their temperament is defeated. I don't know what I'm doing. And can you help me? I need help. I need help. I'm drowning. I need help. Right? And I've always thought of it as a mindset, which is to ask for help with confidence, right?

Like, "Hey, can somebody please help me out here? I am completely underwater and I definitely need some help. Otherwise, I don't know, I'm going to drown or something. Somebody please just help me." And to have a sense of humor or a confidence in the asking for help is a mindset. So you're asking for the same thing with the same circumstances in both ways. In one of the cases, you're ashamed of it, that you equate it to defeat, where you're

I've learned to disassociate asking for help with defeat and simply associate asking for help with, "I just need help." I just need some help. But that's a powerful thing. You know how to call it out. What I think this conversation is doing is I want anyone who's listening to this to recognize that asking for help is normal. And not only is it normal, it's really nice.

I mean, so I'll just tell you a quick funny story. You'll appreciate this. So a friend of mine went through a really tough time and I didn't know about it. And she's a very close friend. Went through a really, really hard time. And I saw her and I was like, hey, what have you been up to? And she's like, I've been really depressed. I've been really having, I'm like, WTF? I'm one of those friends you call, like you've told me things before. Like, why did you leave me out? Like, like, why didn't you call me?

And she said, "I did." I'm like, "No, you didn't." She's like, "Yes, I texted you multiple times." I'm like, "What?" And I go back and look at my text as like, have I been a horrible friend? And the texts say, "What up? What are you doing? Want to come over?" And I was like, "You mean these?" She goes, "Yeah." I'm like, "You mean the ones that sound like every other text you send me? How the hell am I supposed to know

that you're struggling when you send me, what are you doing? And she came upon some research that said that when someone is struggling or in need, all they need is eight minutes from a friend to hold space with them, to make them feel better. That's all they need is eight minutes. And so now we have a code word, which is what up, how you doing? But when one of us is struggling, the text is, do you have eight minutes?

And that simply means I need you. I'm going to cry. No, it's perfect. It's perfect. Eight minutes. When somebody texts you, do you have eight minutes? Any of us can stop the movie, can walk out of a meeting, can walk out of a room and talk to a friend in need for eight minutes. We spend eight minutes in the bathroom, for heaven's sakes. And we can be there for somebody for eight minutes. We don't need to fix anything.

We need to acknowledge that they need help and that they just need to know that they're not alone. And by the way, to be crystal clear, there's no greater honor that you could give a friend than to send them a text message that says, do you have eight minutes? Like when you're in your own like darkness, I get that you can't see clearly, but there is no greater compliment

and gift to let someone know how much they mean to you to send that text. For me, as a friend, there is no greater. There's no greater honor. That is the level friend that I aspire to be. And I don't have a zillion friends because I'm like the friends I have. I'm the eight minute text in the middle of the night friends. I'm the stop, drop and roll friends. Yeah.

And to your point, the like, I don't even remember what we talked about. I just remember that making that call and that walk. It wasn't a two hour walk. No. To your point, so much can happen in eight minutes. It was probably 20 or 30 minutes if I had to guess. Maybe an hour at the absolute most.

Eight minutes. Eight minutes. And you really said it best, which is for anybody who says, I don't want to bother anyone with my problems. How dare you deny them the awesome honor of getting to hold space with you and sit in mud with you and give eight minutes of their life just to let you know you're not alone. Just to let you know that you're not alone in whatever you're doing.

Sometimes it's not deep emotional stuff. Sometimes it's like, I don't know how to solve this problem and it's silly stuff. But the thought that we don't want to bother our friends is unbelievably selfish. Bother me. I want to be bothered by the people I love. That is what reinforces my love for them.

Be the eight minute friends. And if someone in your life is not an eight minute friend. Then they're just fun. They're just acquaintances. Totally. They just move them to a different place in your life. Yeah, they don't have to be ejected from your life, but you just wouldn't call them in a time of need. And that's okay. I have friends that I wouldn't call in time of need, but I love them and I think they're great fun. But they're just not on that speed dial. That's true. We have to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

For decades, the Mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

Discover how a group of young prosecutors took on the mafia, and with the help of law enforcement, brought down its most powerful figures. These bosses on the commission had no idea what was coming their way from the federal government. From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcast, this is Law & Order Criminal Justice System.

I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is today.

I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words.

that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the CINO Show. I'm your host, CINO McFarlane. I'm an addiction specialist. I'm a coach. I'm a translator. And I'm God's middleman. My job is to crack hearts and let the light in and help everyone shift the narrative. Whether your get down is sex, drugs, alcohol, love addiction, self-hate, codependency, or anything else for that matter.

I want to help you wake up and I want to help you get free. I want to help you unleash your potential, overcome obstacles, and achieve your goals. Most importantly, I don't want you to feel alone. So join me on The Cino Show, where each week we'll feature a compelling individual with an even more noteworthy story that will be sure to inspire and educate. Listen to The Cino Show every Wednesday on iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Can you tell me something you've done in your career? And it doesn't matter if it's commercially successful or not, I don't care. But can you tell me a specific thing that you've worked on in your career that you absolutely loved being a part of? And that if every project or everything you ever worked on was like this one thing, you'd be the happiest person alive? Yes. I can tell you because it's fresh in my brain and my life. Bait club.

Bake Club is a, it used to be daily, now it's a weekly club that anyone can join. It happens on Instagram Live at 2 p.m. Eastern Standard Time every Friday. And wherever I am, we bake something together. And I won't tell you what we're baking. I'll just tell you what the basic ingredients are that you need. And it's usually no more than, I don't know, three, five, maybe seven ingredients.

And you just show up with a cannonball spirit of whatever it is. I got my ingredients ready, set, go. And we spend five minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes baking. I make a playlist every week. You listen, you dance, you watch, you bake, you make mistakes, you mess up, you burn stuff. I drop stuff, whatever it is. But it's like, it's a carved out time together to be intentional and free in a very lose yourself, find yourself spirit.

And it's this collection of people that Simon are like, they show up for each other. Someone at a club messaged me the other day and was like, Hey, this person's mom died and she had been battling for a while and she is having a really hard time. I want to show up for her. Her favorite thing is this one thing that you made this one time. Can you send the care package to her, et cetera, et cetera. But it has become this network of incredible humans and it is,

It's a wide open door for anyone and everyone to be the closest thing to that eight minute friend. And it's completely human. It's not choreographed. It's not rehearsed. It is human.

me on whatever I am at 2 p.m. on a Friday. It's a good day. It's a bad day. It's a rainy day. And I'm showing up and I am an introvert. I do not get energy from being out and about and, and, and. And it forces me every Friday to really ask myself on a good day and a bad day, like, what are you here for? What are you showing up for?

It's a door open into anyone that wants to come into my home and just needs some company or needs to laugh at me or needs to laugh with me or wants to bake or needs an excuse or needs like a babysitter. Some people put their kids in front of bake club. And it is the most, I love it because to your point, there's no transaction of commerce and

And I love that it's this community of people that I have everything to do with and nothing to do with. And there's just like an immense pride of its stickiness and the space that it holds in people's lives. Tell me an early specific happy childhood memory, something I can relive with you. Oh,

God, this is such a good question. My favorite earliest food memory is my mom, working mom, comes to pick me and my sister up from, it must have been like preschool and kindergarten, first grade, buckles us into the back of the car, blue Ford Taurus. I always sit behind the driver's seat. That was always my seat.

And I remember her like mom purse that had the multiple pockets and it was always like old tissues hanging out. And she put it in the middle because the front seat was also like a banquette bench. Yeah. The little armrest down where she would normally sit. Her purse was empty and her purse was on the dashboard instead, which was very strange. And she pulls halfway out of this like preschool kindergarten parking lot and pulls over. And when they pulled over,

my mom or my dad, it was because we were fighting. My older sister and I were fighting, kicking each other. And my heart goes into shock, like, oh, shit, oh, shit, oh, shit. What do we do? What do we do? And she digs into her purse. I'm like, oh, God, oh, God, oh, God, what could this be? And she pulls out a bag of sugar babies that she left in her purse on the dashboard to be warmed by the sun. And out of nowhere, this makes no sense whatsoever.

tears open the bag of sugar babies and you know they're little brown sugar pieces they're probably just food for your taste i mean but they're very magical and she like doses out two to my sister and i remember the clink of these two little pieces of like sugar-coated candy clinking into my sister's hand and then into mine and she pours a few into hers and just quietly there's no words exchanged

Because we're so perplexed and I don't know, she must have been having a good day or a bad day. I don't know. I've asked her. She doesn't remember the day at all, which is hilarious to me because it's so vivid in my memory.

And we just eat these warm, brown, sugary sugar babies that had been very intentionally warmed by the sun. And I don't remember anything else about what happened that day, what happened afterwards. I remember it was done in complete silence. And it was the equivalent of when you watch someone as an adult eat something really good and they just go. And you can see their sort of like eyelids flicker and take them somewhere. Yeah.

My food memory. That's my first vivid memory as a kid that was joyful and it had to do with sugar and dessert. What I find astonishing about you, and we've never talked about this, is that story, Bake Club, and almost everything we've ever talked about today is the exact same story. How so? Who you are is you surprise people with sugar, and I don't mean literally. You surprise people with sweetness. Yes.

And that you happen to be a dessert person is just poetic. But the way you describe bait club is you show up no matter what. And if you use what happened when that car as a kid, it's the same experience for people. They don't know what they're going to get. They don't know what kind of mood you're in. But all you know is you show up for other people. Your mother showed up for the kids. You don't know what mood she's in. People don't know what mood you're in. But you're going to give them a little something.

That just brightens their day. And that's who you are. Oh, stop. You're going to make me cry. You are an introvert. You're also close to the vest. You're hard to read. There are times I've hung out with you. I don't know if you're in a good mood or a bad mood. And then all of a sudden, biscuits come out. You have become your mother. We're kind of in the backseat.

going about our day and then all of a sudden something happens. We don't know what's going on and the result is something delightful and sweet. And that's what it is to be your friend. And that's what it is to be in bait club. And that's what it is to work at milk bar. It's kind of like we're going through our routines and then you interrupt our routines with a little bit of magic. And your purpose on this planet is to perpetuate what your mother instilled in you that day.

To go the extra length, that's what it is. It's not that she just gave you the candy. She went to the extra length of preparing the candy and warming it in the sun. You said they were heated intentionally, and that's what you do. It's with great intention that you make preparations to surprise people with a little bit of sweetness in their lives, just a little bit to keep them going that day. That's what you do. Warming the candy on the dashboard.

has become an entire business and enterprise for you. A lot of effort, a lot of thought for a little bit of magic and a little bit of sweetness for the rest of us. I feel so seen. I feel so seen and also therapized. You know, I talk about cause a lot and sacrifice. And people always ask me, like, I believe in quitting. You know, I don't believe in like stubbornness to a self-destructive level. But the question is, how do you know when to quit?

And for me, the sacrifice has to feel worth it. Like I'm giving a lot, not sleeping a lot, working a lot, but the impact that I'm having, and if you ask me to do the equation, it feels worth it. You're one of the hardest working people I know on the planet. You don't rest, but the amazing thing is to you, whether it's having guests over to your house or whether it's bait club or whether it's the milk bar enterprise, it's worth it because you get two little kids in the back seat.

to smile and have a little bit of joy and carry a memory for the rest of their lives. And we carry the memory of talking in the woods and we carry the memory of our childhood when we eat cereal and milk ice cream. It's all the same story. It's so true. How many memories do you have? Not that many, right? We only remember the things that matter. Tozi, I love you. Tozi, I love you.

Hold on, hold on. Before you go, I want to share one more thing, which is Christina's recipe for an ice cream loaf. It's the world's simplest recipe. Anyone can make this. Take two cups of softened ice cream, which is basically one pint of your favorite flavored ice cream. Add one cup of self-rising flour. Add one egg. Bake it at 350 degrees Fahrenheit for 45 minutes in a loaf pan, and you will have made an ice cream loaf.

of your favorite ice cream flavor. Enjoy its magic. A Bit of Optimism is a production of The Optimism Company. It's produced and edited by David Jha and Greg Reutershen, and Henrietta Conrad is our executive producer.

If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like even more optimism, check out my website, simonsenik.com, for classes, videos, and more. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.

For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm also Lacey Lamar. Just kidding. I'm Amber Revin. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. This season, we make new friends, deep dive into my steamy DMs,

answer your listener questions and more. The more is punch each other. Listen to the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen, okay? Or Lacey gets it. Do it.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years.

wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.