Billy Corgan | Club Random with Bill Maher
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. I thought this would amuse you. It brings up a lot of bad memories. Really? That is so interesting. Well, fuck me, but not really, because how could I have known that? No, no, I'm actually joking with you. I am joking with you. It doesn't bring up bad memories. Oh. No. It brings up good memories for me, and it was so cool.

You know, I've used it for a million things. Really? Yeah. I put pot in here. The albums in here did not fit in... This is when I had...

When I moved into my house, I had a whole CD. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course we had to. I had to fight to get that made, believe it or not. Fight for what part? Well, our album Melancholy had 28 songs in it. And I got this idea of releasing 28 B-sides. It's basically total insanity. 28 unreleased tracks to go with the 28-song album. And so when it was all put together...

I had this idea of doing a box set, you know, typical record. Why do you want to do that? And I said, it'd be cool. We'll do like an old school package with, you know, obviously reminiscent old 45 boxes. Okay, okay, if that's what you want to do. And it ended up selling like 160,000 copies. They made a fuckload of money on it. But it's classic, right? You have to beg somebody to make money. But I think there were eight CDs in here.

I believe it was six. Six. Six and a booklet, if I remember correctly. Right. And if you open it, you know, the little trick inside? No, what? See at the top what it says? Yeah, this box belongs. Yeah, it's the old school thing. This box belongs. You know, when you were a kid, you'd say it was your record collection. I would have filled it out, except if I have to resell it. There you go. No, but this did not fit in the CD case. So they had to take the... But it was... You don't really...

And this box was too good to be wasted there. So it did have a million. I'm surprised it doesn't smell like dope. Oh, yeah. Did you actually keep weed in it? I kept lots of things in this. I had it on my desk. I have also a thing to hold pencils. I guess it's just a drinking chalice, but I used it for that. That was in a promotional thing for Rod Stewart in 1971. Wow.

That's also on my desk. Oh, like a Rod the Mod kind of. Yes. He's got the mic up there. Oh, nice. Yeah. Remember the story about when we were kids? Do you remember that story? That they pumped semen out of him or something? Yeah. Yeah. Before I ever knew who Rod Stewart was, I heard people would say, did you hear about Rod Stewart? And I'm like, first of all, I don't know who Rod Stewart is. Really? So my first connection to Rod Stewart was hearing this story.

this apocryphal story about the gallon of cum in rod's stomach you know what i mean but i feel like that's bullshit of course it's bullshit well we don't know you i think i i'm gonna go out on a limb that rod likes but the ladies oh he does i mean uh it's so funny he was on my show about a year ago or maybe it was even more recently but

I read his book, you know, his like autobiography, which is a lot about pussy, you know, like. Well, he did well in that category. Like beyond. Like at one point he talked about like having sex between courses.

At a restaurant, this is. You know, if you could both talk someone into having sex with you between courses and then find a way to do it at a restaurant, I feel like that is something. Although I am technically a rock star, I did not get that particular DNA, you understand. That was not my course in life. Really? Yeah.

I'm envious, but it's not really how it worked out for me, which it's worked out fine. But that must have been your choice. I mean, rock stars are women who throw themselves at themselves. Yeah. I'm sure you could have been a... No disrespect to anyone who's done it, including Mr. Stewart. I just always thought it was a bit too piggish. Wow. You have more of a sense of restraint than I do. You looking for something? Yeah. Yeah.

But we'll have to wait until next show. It's something I use to cut the end of my joints off, but I'll get it next show. What do they technically call those? Fire someone. What? What are they technically? Is there a cutter? I always think it looks like the thing that the rabbi uses to cut the end off of a penis. Not that I even know what that looks like. But you know, the real rabbis, they use their teeth. Well...

I don't know if I would ascribe the word real to rabbis who put babies' dicks in their mouth, but that is a thing. And babies do get herpes from rabbis. If there's a camera, I didn't know that. They do. I'm not saying everyone, but that is something that has happened. You could look at it. Can you imagine? I cannot. Your mom sits you down and like, son, I hate to tell you this. I cannot imagine how angry I would be as a parent if...

If my baby got herpes because the moil had to put the dick in it, and it reminded me of the Dalai Lama last month when he said to that kid, suck my tongue.

Now, that's not as bad, and maybe it was innocent, and maybe it's a Buddhist tradition. I don't know what it was, but it looked bad. And there's just no circumstance where you should say that to a child. Well, you know, the concept with the Dalai Lama is that he's reincarnated again and again as the Dalai Lama. Maybe it wasn't him. It was an earlier incarnation. I'm going to have to fire myself. I found it.

There it is. Look at that. Is that vintage? Is that not a beautiful thing? Is that vintage? It's vintage at this house. I don't know. But, of course, I could lose a finger. That's like my nightmare, what you're doing there. Why? Because I'm a guitar player. Oh, right. Right.

What do guitar players do? Like when... Like, doesn't Eric Clapton have arthritis and stuff like that? Yeah, you get tendonitis. And then you can't play, right? You can't. It's just not as easy. I have various forms of tendonitis, yeah. And that's from playing? Yeah. I mean, Bill would do anything 18 zillion times. Right. Well...

If that were the case, you know, masturbating would have knocked my dick off. That was my way of, I was the straight man. I was setting you up for that joke. Okay. But it's kind of true. So you have wrist pain and... No, but I never had it in the wrist, but I am amazed that you can choke the chicken as much as you can choke the chicken, especially, certainly this, I'm saying this is in my younger years, but even well through most of my life.

Yes, there was just an unlimited amount. And certainly in college. It was a very stressful life. I remember in college coming down from taking speed, which was horrible. The drug itself was amazing. Was this off the shelf? No, I happened to go to college at Ithaca, New York, at Cornell, where it was the hub for...

for where speed came in. And we were pot dealers, but when our dealer got something, we sold whatever he had. That's the way it worked. We were the low man on the, you know. So I remember getting this speed, crystal meth and crystal bends. There were two types. I've never had it since college. I looked for it when I got out of college. It didn't exist. But the like four or five speed trips I took in college were,

I've never had a drug experience that good. I mean, one very painful snort in each nostril and you were just flying for 12 hours.

Problem is, then you couldn't sleep. And I remember just being up for 24 hours masturbating because it made me super horny. And I probably masturbated 24 times in 24 hours. Now, it's amazing to me that your dick can still be attached after like that. Chuck Negeron, the great lead singer of Three Dog Night. Three Dog Night. I read his autobiography, and I guess in his...

I'm paraphrasing the story, but he talks about it in his book. This is nothing he told me privately. Apparently he fucked so many times his dick exploded. Exploded? What do you mean? You'd have to read the passage in the book. You have a crack staff here. I'm sure they could pull up the quote. No, they're on crack. He literally says he fucks so much that his dick exploded. And apparently it's a medical thing that can happen. I'm no doctor. But I feel like

That's bullshit because your dick would not, I don't feel like over and over and over makes something explode. I feel like holding something in makes something explode. Doing something over and over makes it erode, not explode. I wouldn't know. I know, but I'm just saying, I'm...

Look, if this guy wants to humble brag that he got a lot of pussy, just say it. Don't tell me your dick exploded. I don't know. I'm a different type of personality, but if that happened to me, I wouldn't talk about it in a book, you see. But it was bold the way he does it. It's a humble brag. It's a harrowing passage. It's a humble brag. I got a lot of tail. I get where you're going with this. So much my dick exploded. Excuse me. You know, I do think that it would...

I would believe it if he said, my dick, you know what, you're right. Let's not even pursue this line. But I must say, the fact that you were offered this, as you must have been as a rock star and deferred, is rare.

That is right. I can't say I deferred, but I didn't partake as much as the people around me, let's put it that way. The people around me? Well, I don't mean my band. I mean, you know, I was in that world. Right. You mean the roadies? No, the roadies would pull people too, and that was always... We actually have rules, because other bands were very permissive. They would let their roadies go into the crowd.

Yes. Basically backstage passes. Right. You know, hey, if you blow me right now, I'll take you back and meet Selma. Is that a real thing? Oh, yeah. They will actually blow the roadie. Oh, yeah. But then why would you ever want to meet that girl? I would never want to meet a girl who just blew another guy. You don't know enough rock stars to understand. Some of them are not very discerning. No, I... Yes, I understand that. I mean...

but it's interesting that we're talking about a wide standard here it is interesting though that almost all the rock stars get married you know like

It must be either. Oh, I see where you're going with that. Well, I don't know where I'm going with that because I'm not sure whether it's because, well, I've just had all the pussy I could possibly get, which is ridiculous because every day you're alive. You're a new, you know, it's a new day. I mean, it's like saying I've had all the food I could have eat. No, no, because I'm alive tomorrow and I'll need it again is one way to look at it.

Or they just found that... I think a lot of what it is is that the girls who want rock stars are very young, right? No, no. Like I say, they're not all young. Remember Grand Funk's song...

Connie, doing all right. We're an American band. Oh, I know. There's a line in there about Connie. Connie? From Wichita or whatever. Who was Connie? She was the famous groupie who, when the bus would pull into town, would blow the whole crew and the band. Oh, God. It was a known thing. Every band? Yes. Oh, okay.

And the crew. Which is an important point to delineate. I see. Okay, so we were once playing a gig, 93, and we were pulling in. Somebody said, Connie's here. And I'm like, who's Connie? It was like, oh my God, we're going to meet Connie, like from the song. And Connie came on the bus and was ready to roll. And you're saying Connie. I was horrified. And you're saying she was not young. No, she would have been...

Mid-40s? Mid-40s! Oh, yeah. So Connie the MILF was even a MILF. That's... I...

I would not call her a MILF. Okay, so my impression is wrong. Because I think music, of course, excites teenagers. That's who rock and roll is for. By the time you're in your 20s, your tastes have broadened out. You still like your rock and roll. But the people who go nuts, like, I mean, I was that kid. You know, you're 14. I remember one person in my band saying, you know, like, I'd spent the night with some girl and...

Somebody in the band said, what happened? And I said, we just literally stayed up all night and talked. And somebody else in the band chimed in and said, well, why the fuck would you want to do that? Why would you want to take them in your room and talk on that? I said, well, that's just kind of where it went. And we had a really nice conversation and somebody I would probably want to see again. Did you? I don't remember because it happened more than once. Because I wasn't, like I said, I wasn't that into that band.

Well, then it couldn't have been that memorable a conversation that you had that night or else that person would have become someone in your life. What's the old term? Shooting fish in a barrel? You know the idea? Of course.

I'm not in, even if somebody presents themselves to me on a platter, obviously I'm not single now, but if they did, I'm not actually not that interested. No, but I'm saying, you said you had a nice conversation that lasted all night. Yeah. If I had a conversation like that with someone, and I certainly have in my life, I would then want to know that person more than that for that just one night because we had such a good time. That's what I'm saying. But it sounds like you didn't pursue that. But that happened to me hundreds of times, you see what I'm saying?

So everyone you talked to, it was interesting like that? No, but what I'm saying is sometimes people get themselves into a dynamic. It's like you don't really know what you're getting into until you're into it. It's one thing to be in the crowd and somehow somebody grabs you out of the crowd. Next thing you're hanging with the band and everybody's drinking champagne and next thing you know it's a hotel. Right.

Yeah, on the surface it looks like it is what it is. It's a hookup. But it doesn't have to be about that. And sometimes you find magical things and sometimes they bore the shit out of you and you think, why the fuck did I let this person in my room?

Well... Am I making any sense? A total sense, because I certainly understand being, not in music, but having the same situation of there are people who want to know you because they already know a lot about what you are about. You've already shared a lot of your thinking. So it's like...

It's like a dating app times a million that does all the work for you that, like, they're trying to match you up with people who have the same interests or think like you. And obviously somebody who's your fan is going to be somebody who's already there. So it's like... So I was never into the, let's call it...

for what it is. It's a bit dehumanizing when you allow yourself to be overly objectified and then in return you objectify the person because you don't know them and they put themselves in front of you. Why is that objectifying? If somebody likes you because...

It's as if... I'm a bit of a snob is what I mean. I see. No, you're not. It's like if you could go around personally and sing your song to somebody and then they, whoa, that really reached them. It got to them emotionally. The lyrics resonated. Okay, that would be a great basis for, look, I want to know you. I like your song. There's nothing cynical about that. This just happened in our...

modern world on a mass level because millions of people can hear it on the radio and by the records and so forth. But it doesn't change the fact that what's getting to someone or when I do comedy, what's getting to somebody is, "Oh, I like the way your brain works. I like what you're saying. I like your message. I like your words."

That to me is pure. Now, what you do with it can be impure. So here's where we agree. That's what I'm saying. I tended more towards the intellectual and emotional side of the equation rather than the physical. You can be a real asshole and say, oh, this person really likes me because of what I sang or what I've said on the air. I'll just use that to get in their pants right away. That's a creepy way to handle it. What I'm also saying is I didn't like being objectified in that scenario.

On stage, it's fine because that's a shadow play. But you're not being objectified. You're being liked for what you...

I mean, yeah, other people. I'm not arguing with you. It doesn't feel, it didn't then feel that way to me. There are people who also do like you just because they know you're famous and a rock star. So I've certainly had people who profess to be big fans and I just want to say, I can tell who's actually a fan. You know that it's like,

You think in this group we're in, it's a very cool thing to be my fan. So you're saying that. I know you're not really. I know you really don't watch my show. It's okay. I don't care. But I can tell when you're lying. The easiest way I can tell a lie is when people say, I watch your show every night because it's on once a week. That's like, wow, you really do like me if you watch the same show every night for a week. But, well, that's a more...

enlightening look into something I've been curious about my whole life than I've ever gotten to. Here it is. I've lived it for sure. Yeah. And drugs. Why would you say that rock stars do so many more drugs than, say, people in the industrial adhesive industry? Best guess I can give for it is there is a social aspect to it because you spend a lot of time sitting around.

There is the idea that if you're playing whoever you're playing on stage, you can sustain that longer. And then there's other things, which is like, you know, the guys in the crew, Molly Crew would tell you, you get so high on stage that you want the show to go on off stage. Is that kind of generally covered? Well, yeah. Also, you can afford it.

Oh, yeah. And also, people offer it to you. People go out of their way as a way to curry favor with the band by getting them not just the best drugs, they get them the best everything. That's a way to ingratiate yourself. You're the famous person. Here's the best part ever. Yeah, we had a guy once. It was when we were still pretty young, but a guy came backstage and he said...

does anyone have any weed? And our roadie at the time, he was the weed guy, right? I said, well, that guy. And so he goes, if you can get me some weed, I've got liquid LSD. Okay, we just met this guy. LSD is always liquid. No, you can take it in a paper tab. But that's putting a drop of the liquid. Yeah, but what I'm saying is we'd never taken pure liquid LSD. Well, you certainly wouldn't want to take more than a drop or two. Hold on. I'm getting the story. So we just met this guy.

And so we go, wait. So he, the guy over in the corner, doesn't know he's about to give up his pot. It works for us. If he gives you pot, you'll give us this liquid LSD. He goes, yeah. So we go to the guy. You got to give him some weed. He's like, well, I don't want to. No, you're going to give him the weed. So we make him give his weed. And the guy literally, I just met this guy. We literally went like this and he filled our hands and we must take like 25 hits of LSD. Just came off stage.

How old were you when this happened? 22. And what happened? Tripped your brains out for... You could have died. Fucking two days. That's what I'm saying. I'm getting to your point about drugs being available. You just meet some stranger. Hey, man, take this liquid. Well, now you've also explained another thing about rock life, which is why there are so many ODs. And I think the answer is because...

when you're young like that, you're a fucking idiot. And of course, the combination of being a fucking idiot plus easily available high potency drugs, yeah, you're going to have it. We lived it. We lived it. I mean, we've had overdoses and people die and all of it. I remember doing things that when I look back, I'm like, wow, my God.

There was, I remember in college, you know, experimenting with everything. There was something that went around and it was, I guess it was what now they call poppers. You know, like in the gay community was a big thing. Yeah. You'd kind of snap it.

this thing would snap. - Amyl nitrate. - Amyl nitrate, and you'd take a big snort of it. Okay, so we had it in this little vial. It was like a little vial of, same thing with acid, if you drank it, you'd die.

But what you just take the top off and then snort and then put that. But if we like got too high and forgot and drank it instead of or said, hey, I wonder what happened if you drink this. I mean, because it was such a stupid drug. You'd get incredibly beet red. Your heart would go a trillion miles an hour. You'd laugh your ass off for like two minutes and then it would be over. Yeah. Like what? That's such a dumb drug.

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Done it, seen it. You know, my father was a drug dealer, so I was around. Is that right? Oh, yeah. Your father? Wow. My father sold heroin, cocaine, and weed. To you? No, no, no. No, I was actually pretty much a teetotaler in my 20s because I was so in that world that I wanted nothing to do with it. So when you were a little kid, you were aware he was doing this? Uh-huh.

I'm five years old at the kitchen table. My dad, by the way, this is 1972. This is not like now, like you're sitting here smoking. Right. My dad in 1972 would sit at dinner and smoke joint after joint. And we'd all contact high eating or macaroni and cheese. Right.

you know, Nixon's on the TV being impeached and I'm like out of my mind. Wow. So just from the contact. Yeah. And then I don't think he was dealing then. Then later in order to sustain his habit, he started dealing. So it was not unusual in my house to like, you know, I don't know, you're looking for something and you're like, is the thing I'm looking for? I don't know my hat in this bag. Nope. It's not in this bag. You open this other bag. It's like eight pounds of weed.

You know what I mean? Like in the kitchen, just, oh, that's the weed stash. Were you aware of what it was? Oh, yeah, yeah. And that it was illegal? Oh, yeah. Were you aware? My dad used to take me on drug deals. As collateral? No, he'd leave me in the car, I guess, to keep me safe. Oh, well. But you know enough about that culture. Like, he would go in to do a deal, and I'd be in the car for three hours by myself while he's in there doing whatever they were doing. Wow. And when you...

You said you were like five at the table and getting a contact high. Were you aware at that young age the difference between sobriety and being high? No concept. No concept? No, no. But you said you were high. Well, I know now, but I'm saying. Oh. I couldn't understand what was happening. All I know is I wanted to eat the entire refrigerator and I didn't mind watching Nixon's impeachment or something. You know, it's like somebody was really interested in Dick Nixon, you know.

So it gave you the munchies and all. Yeah. So it did what it does now. And he thought it was funny. My dad was the type of guy who would blow smoke in the dog's face to get the dog high. He was that guy. Yeah. Well, I've been that guy too. But...

Wow. So there was a litmus test. Are you that, you know, what are you the blow the weed in the dog's face guy? Not for many years, but I'm not going to do that to us. I'm not going to lie that I've never blown weed in a dog's face, but the dog was asking for it. I had a dog who and cigarette smoke. I smoked at the time. Wow. That's how long ago that was. He just liked smoke. He would come and he would just, if I was smoking, he would lick the smoke. He really liked smoke.

Anyway, this is, wow, I didn't know this about you. But do you think it hurts you to be high at that age? I mean, certainly off the top of our heads, we think immediately, oh my God, that's horrible. Maybe it isn't. Is it, would it? It never hurts. Can we entertain the idea that it might not be malign? It didn't hurt me. See? Yeah.

I wouldn't do it to my kids, but it didn't hurt me. Right. But you thought it was funny, so it's kind of a mixed emotion in my mind, you know? So when did you first voluntarily do drugs on your own?

21, 22. Wow, so you waited. Oh, yeah. Because I hated. You got to understand. I'm living with my father when I'm 17. Four o'clock in the morning. Boom, boom, boom, boom, back door. It's some guy I've never seen. Right. Where's your father? Right. Coming to make a drug deal. Of course. Drag my dad out of bed. They go up, lock the door.

And I'm, you know, it, you know, these guys all carry guns and it wasn't. Wow. So I was living like a, like a really bad Tarantino movie all the time. Right. Well, we had guns in the house. We had, you know, stolen lawnmowers. You know what I mean? It was, it was a weird, it wasn't Sanford and son. You know what I mean? It was like, it was weird.

Boy, you're so lucky having such a colorful childhood. That's what he said. And what was your mother's role in all this? My mother was institutionalized when I was four years old and I never lived with her again. She went away for years. And when she came out, she was so different because of probably electric shock or whatever they put her through. She was like a different person. Boy, you check all the nutso boxes, huh? I do, yeah. So...

Well, I'm going to have to listen to all your music, which I do anyway. Thank you. But again, knowing what I know now. Because that could make a big difference. Especially if I do it high. I think that's why... With your dad around. At least generationally, I think that's why I was connected with so many people. Because I was speaking the patois of Gilligan's Island meets what the fuck happened in my life. That's right.

Now that you should put in a song. Thank you. That's a funny line. Can I tell you a Bob Denver story? Bob Denver. I know exactly. Yes. Who played Gilligan. Oh, I know. So at one point, this is a slightly convoluted story, but I'll be quick about it. We had this woman who worked for us in the mid-90s whose name was Seven MacDonald. She was Country Joe and the Fish, Country Joe MacDonald's daughter. Oh. And her name was Seven.

And if you asked her how she got her name, she said, because my dad smoked seven joints that day. So at some point, as you do sitting in a tour bus, Bob Denver's name came up for some fucking reason. And she goes, oh, I used to live next door to Bob Denver.

You know, so, you know, this is pre-internet. You know, we're desperate for any information on Bob Denver. Right. We got the inside scoop on Mr. Denver. She's like, yeah, he was always depressed because he couldn't get any jobs post-Gilligan. Right. And he just used to sit in the backyard and smoke joint after joint and just look kind of bummed out. And oh, by the way, he had monkeys and they used to jerk off all the time. So that was our... Monkeys too. Is that a good story to tell?

But here's something. Here's my story about Bob Denver. I mean, it's not a story that I know. I thought you were going to tell a story about jerking off monkeys. That's very kind. I mean, you cannot go to a monkey cage, which they shouldn't even have in a zoo, without seeing them jerking off. I mean, that's a very... Believe it or not, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Believe it or not, I was once at a zoo, and there were these little kids...

And they were trying to get the monkey's attention. The monkey was, as we say in wrestling, no selling him. The monkey was just like this. And the kids are doing everything they can to get his attention. He was like this. It's a true story. They do that. So finally, they did something enough to get the monkey's attention. And he looked at him and he started jerking off.

And when they go horrified, he went, ha, ha, ha. And he started laughing at them. It was like he'd figured out the routine. That if I do the jerking off thing and they get scared, I get to laugh. It was quite brilliant. I know people who work with chimpanzees. Not a sanitarium. They're not crazy. A monkey-tarium. A monkey-tarium. No, there must be a sanctuary. And it is amazing.

how close they are to us. Like how much is going on upstairs. They make you think that they're almost aware that they can't speak because they have thoughts and ideas and they find ways to express them almost like a mind. What you're describing is a mind. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, well, a turtle can't do that. I mean, they are... Maybe a turtle can, but just really slow. Thank you. We'll be right back.

No, but Bob Denver. Okay, here's my Bob Denver. Okay, please, yeah. No, this is just... Because I love this stuff. This is not really a story. This is something I read in the paper. I was hopeful. It was like he came to me for a job. No, I would have given it to him. I was on top. And he's gone now, right? I believe he's gone. Okay. So he was...

I always knew about him because pothead, pothead, you know who the big potheads are. There was a list of people who we all knew. Was it like a secret society? No. It was just like, you know, Willie Nelson, Woody Harrelson, Paul McCartney was for decades a...

all day long pot smoker. I'd heard that. Yes. Okay. There were people like that. We heard those rumors. I've never been that guy, by the way. I don't smoke pot anywhere near like, but Snoop Dogg, there are people who, Bob Denver was that guy. So, but he lived in some, like, I think North Carolina, which was, I mean, we're talking about the 90s or something, and it was dry. I mean, you know, there was no, pot wasn't even medically legal anywhere. So he had to

Or maybe it was medically legal somewhere, maybe California. Anyway, he needed to have somebody send him pot. And of course, the federal government, which has nothing better to do, at one point busted Bob Denver, our beloved Gilligan, for pot possession because they found it coming through the mail. Do you know who it was who sent it to him? Wait, I can see his face in my mind. No, you're wrong. Okay, go ahead. Marianne.

Mary Ann. Did she get busted too? I don't know, but it's such a great story. I can't hold it together. When you were a kid, were you in that litmus test of who was hotter? Did you do that? Hotter? Yeah. Mary Ann or the other one? Oh. Tina Louise. Right. Oh, yes. That was always going around. Look, Tina Louise, is she still with it? I don't know. No.

I hope not. Who were you more into? I hope not, because I was never a fan. Sorry. Were you more into Marianne? Marianne, for sure. Yeah, right? Oh, my God. Not even close. I'm sorry, Tina Louise. You're a lovely person, I'm sure. But the way they presented you and made you and that whole thing. I mean, she was very Marilyn Monroe.

homage. Yeah. And I'm not going to go into once again my antipathy toward Marilyn Monroe, but I was never a fan of her. She refused to participate in the Marilyn Monroe, the Gilligan reunion. They had the original. Tina Louise did? Yes. They had the whole original cast together, but she wouldn't do it. I wonder why. I can't remember.

And then it was the whole, they promised, whoever it was, CBS or whatever, promised they were going to finally get off the island. And they did a swerve at the end and they ended up back on the island. That falls under the category of, I think, like just people in show business, perhaps people in other industries do it too, and I'm just not aware, but people in our business just don't

you just read or know about so many incidents where they just make a horrible, stupid decision. Like, just a bad show business decision. Like, what else do you have going on, Tina Louise? You know, why couldn't, what hatchet could you not bury to take the one offer, the one thing you're beloved for? And most people do, but when I was making my religion documentary, Religious, I wanted to get the song...

from Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders. - Game of Love? - Thank you, I knew you would know. ♪ The purpose of a man is to love a woman ♪ ♪ And the purpose of a woman ♪ Okay, this would have been perfect for, we had a really funny segment with this gay conversion Christian guy who was plainly still gay and was almost in on the joke

And the song would have been perfect. And I paid, you know, I bought Charles, Gnarls Barkley sold me crazy, which was perfect. Uh, Pete Townsend turned me down and then thought better of it and sold me the seeker. Stevie wonder would not sell me superstition. Uh, but, uh,

This would have been great. And I called up Mr. Wayne Fontana or whatever his real name is. And apparently his mind has been bent because he was, I remember, like very sick, impecunious and had not worked in years and was like holding out for a ridiculous number. It was like,

Come on, man. Like, how many people are asking you for this? It was a great song in 1965, but that sort of was the peak for the mind benders. Can I make a guest suggestion? Yeah. I know I'm putting you on the spot. Yeah, please. Barry Williams, who was Greg Brady. Yes. Have you ever met him?

I don't remember, but it's possible. For this or for my real show? This show. Really? Because I think you would appreciate, I got to hang out with him one night, went to a show with him. And what's so cool about him is he's found this balance within, because of course everybody's like, oh my God, it's Greg Brady, right? Yeah. But he's found that balance where he's cool with it. Good. You know what I mean? You got it.

So he's figured out his life in a way that it doesn't feel tragic. It doesn't feel sad. It's like a cool thing. He's embraced it in a way that you root for him, not because he's Greg Brady, but because he's a cool dude and he's figured out it was not a bad thing.

It's the ultimate overdone cliche, but you know, like play the cards you're dealt. We are like really, it's a perfect metaphor. We're dealt a hand and there's some aces in it. If you're lucky. What was your hand? I got a pretty good hand. Funny.

charismatic well finish your thought bill no um yeah i mean and also from a loving home i didn't have to put up you know i mean i had a truly but to be of a childhood um jealous of that by the way yes you should be i feel terrible about it but actually i'm not i'm envious no i understand you should because it's amazing people who grew up in good homes by and large turn out to be good people

Well, yes. That's my experience. I think by and large. Truly good homes, not the fake version. Right. And, you know, people who are given too much. I feel like I was given just the right amount. Certainly wasn't spoiled. It just didn't make, the kind of spoiling that goes on now didn't even exist in that day. And there certainly was no, like, over supervision. You know, it was like, you know, go to school, get your ass home,

Go out after school. Oh, I know play, you know, there was no none of this helicopter parenting and I mean I kind of want to get on the old day and we were better off for it But we were it it you know people said that sounds old. Yeah, but what it but it that doesn't matter Is it true? Is it true? Were we actually better off when we weren't so over supervised and I think you they studied this. Yes, I

Kids, yes, a certain – will a small number die who wouldn't if you didn't give them an EpiPen and a fucking helmet to go to the mailbox? Yes. But for society and for all the kids who make it, I mean, just putting masks on two-year-olds I think was a fucking crime. What did you think about that? You have kids. I was not into it. I was not into it either. I think the whole thing was like – I find it really weird –

and obviously there was a mob out there making the case once the propagandists got done with them, that people can tell you what to do. Right. With your body. Exactly. I find that really weird. Even in an emergency. Even in an emergency. And there was a moment there where you could say it was an emergency when, like...

Yeah, but these motherfuckers had the data pretty early on. Yes. And they wouldn't let it go. Correct. Because somebody was jerking off in an office over where laughing about it, what they got people to do. No, I mean, if hospitals are being overrun, which didn't happen as much as they hyped it, but was certainly potentially happening. And there were some times when, yes, there were gurneys in the hallways.

okay, that's an emergency. I can see draconian measures for a short period of time, but then to let something that should have been two weeks drag on for two, three years. Flatten the curve. Remember flatten the curve? Remember herd immunity? I mean, the way they like, just like in politics, they just like float something. And if it doesn't

turn out to be true, they don't apologize for it. They just move on to the next one. Yeah. Um, and God knows what they're using to figure out their messaging. Like, are they using AI or Google analytics? You know what I mean? They, well, now they are. Yeah. They, they tweak the messaging. Right. And so, and you know, I'm, I'm a songwriter, you know what I mean? It's like, I think, Oh, that's a pretty good album title. Flatten the curve. You know what I mean? It's like, it has a ring to it. That's my point. I had Musk on my show Friday. I saw some of the clips went viral. Oh, good. Um,

Did you enjoy that conversation? Loved it. Did you? I only saw some of the clips, so I can't say I saw all of it. Well, I think it's... I've only met him once for 10 seconds, so I can't say I know him. But...

It's interesting because the jury's still out on sort of where he lands. The Musk apologists basically say, well, he's operating within a system and he's trying to balance the forces of what he's actually interested in versus the fact that he's got to get government contracts and all that.

The other side says, no, he's just another version of the same shit. Some other controlling... No. I don't know. People are such haters. I don't have a particular... He's a very sincere guy who is not motivated by money, obviously. He doesn't even have a house. Can I tell you something, though? And I don't feel like it's too inside baseball. I won't say the person's name. Yeah.

When I met him, he was with like a truly stunning woman, like a drop dead. Like, how are you even real woman?

who I later became friends with. And she told me, you know, because invariably I asked about her. The relationship didn't last. And I said, how'd you meet him? You know, I just wanted her to gossip, basically. And she said, our first date, he took me to the Rocket Factory. And we had lunch overlooking the Rocket Factory. And I thought, that's big fucking game, man. Yeah. So props on the game.

But what makes it a good game is that it's also sincere. That's what he really wants to do. Here's the thing. I don't have a read on him yet, but I think you have a much better bullshit detector than I do. I don't think I have a better one. I'm giving you a compliment. I appreciate it. I'm saying if you tell me he's sincere, I'm more likely to believe what you're saying than my own read. I appreciate that. And also because I spent a lot of time with him Friday.

On the show, that interview, and then after hanging out with some other people. So what do you think he's really after? Does it make sense? That's a bit of a broad question. He's an engineer. He is, you know, in the best sense of the word, a nerd.

He gets off on figuring things out and it obviously comes to him very easily. I mean, figuring out how to make the electric car the thing he made it. If he just died tomorrow, that would be an amazing civilizational accomplishment.

And he's just got 10 other projects like that. That's what turns him on, is fixing things. That's what engineers like to do. And he realizes he's kind of at the top of the intellectual game there, so he's going to work on the biggest problems. Now, I don't agree with everything I was kidding about. Like I said, most things I do agree with you on, not like, let's have more babies and raise them on Mars. I don't get that part.

But that's okay. It's not because he's making money off Mars or babies. It's because he really believes that. And he's got his story and he's sticking to it. I don't get it on the babies for sure. I think we have too many people on this planet. I think I can prove it resources-wise. Yeah, we could fit them on the planet. It's not about fitting them. It's about feeding them. Yeah, we're doing a poor job of that. Yes, and everything. We would need, they say, if everyone lived like Americans, we would need five Earths.

Well, we certainly look like we live on five fucking Earths. Because I just got back from Australia. And they're not as fat? It's shocking when you go to another country where people look how America used to look. But aren't they getting fat everywhere? I just spent three weeks in Australia. And not fat? No.

There's a big difference between obese and I'm not a body shamer type person. But it's hard to watch people who are obviously loving, sensitive people sort of declare quite publicly that they don't want to live too long.

Well, what's, I think, really sad is that they have so many enablers who actually have convinced them that that is not something to worry about. That's the problem, is that they think they can have it both ways. They are selling this very deleterious idea that you can be healthy at any size and you can't. That's the science. Beauty's in the eye of the beholder. If you like that as a

what you like as a partner, great. Yes, we have all types, but science is not subject to those laws. I mean, it is subject to laws that taste is not. And scientifically, I've said it many times, and of course the haters, their answer was so funny, that did you ever see a fat 90-year-old? And one guy, I knew somebody would say it. What about William Shatner, Bill? Okay, you got me. One.

You got me. There's one. Poor Bill Shatner. And I love Bill Shatner. He sat in this chair and I've had dinner with him and I just fucking love him. And, you know, he's Iron Bill. But, you know, the exception proves the rule. Can I tell you a funny, sad story? Please.

There's a really cool train museum west of where I live in Illinois. And what's cool about it is all the trains work. So they have private stocks. So if you take your kid there, you could take your kid on a 1920 trolley train, stuff like that. And it actually works. They run it around the park and stuff.

Excuse me. So I'm on the trolley from 1923, fully restored, you know. And the guy's driving it around and it makes various stops. And my son at the time was probably four years old. And the door opens and there's this morbidly obese gentleman. He's so big that when he got on the trolley, it literally went, you know what I mean? I'm not trying to make you laugh.

I know, but that's funny. Okay, so he gets on the trolley. He's so big, he's struggling to get up the stairs because this was made in a time where they weren't assuming that someone like him was going to have to go up the stairs. Okay, fair enough.

As the man's climbing the stairs towards us, my son goes out loud, why is he so fat? That's why kids are great. And I go, oh, my God. And the only reason. And, you know, I'm from Chicago, so everybody knows me. So I'm like thinking, right. Oh, yeah. So the guy looks at me. He looks at my kid. And as he's passing by, again, my son goes, why is he so fat? And as the man goes, he looks and he goes, because I like to eat, kid.

So God bless him. You know what I mean? It could have been worse. He could have said, because I like to eat kids. Yeah. I don't understand. I'm not going to keep ranting on this because a lot of people think I've done too much of it already. But people who enable...

by telling the lie that this is positivity or healthy at any size, I just want to say one more time, you have blood on your hands. You have blood on your hands because it is not healthy, especially at the incredible, I mean, the guy you're talking about, it's not that unusual to see

Yes, I take your point about like, yes, the world is getting fatter, but not to these levels we've taken. I mean, it's one thing to be pleasantly plump and it's one thing to be obese. But then once in a while, a building walks in the room and you're like, how do you not stop?

and start to reverse even when you're 400. Who is like, that is a sickness that we are indulging and killing people. That's not a time to like be, oh, you look great and you don't. Or maybe you do, but that's it. But your body inside is not looking great. And to then go, well, you know what? I think I'll keep, maybe I'll get to 500 if I can. It's just...

So many things we label a disease, a sickness, I mean, things that didn't used to be like alcoholism. Why not this? And I think the answer is just everybody loves to fucking eat. And nothing can get in the way of that. I certainly like to eat. Well, everybody likes to eat.

But, you know, you don't live for it. And it shouldn't be the thing that is recommended to fix the hole in your heart. Because obviously people who eat that much, there's something else going on. Yeah, I mean, if you've ever watched 600-lb Life, I mean... I haven't. You've never watched that show? Of course not. Oh, really? Oh, first of all, no, never mind. I just, I wouldn't want to patronize that. That's disgusting that they would...

Just, what's on the show? While I'm all being judgmental. Well, you know, generally speaking, this doctor in Houston, I think it's Zaurin or something, they go to his clinic. His son produces the show, so obviously they've set it up like a business model.

But it is interesting to watch people come in and they're over 600 pounds. And the doctor will literally say to them, you've got to lose weight. Here's how you can do it. Here's how you can do it safely. Right. And they want to get the surgery like... Yes. Like where they're cut out. Sure. 100 pounds of fat or whatever. Right. And they show pictures. It's pretty graphic. Meaning they show the surgery. That's one reason I would never watch it. Okay. Because I can't unsee that. The point I'm getting at is...

he'll tell them to their face, like, look, you got to do this. Sometimes people are like, you're wrong. And he's like, you understand, you're going to die.

You're going to die. You've got to do this. You won't live much longer. This is what I do for a living. He gives them like a protocol, and they follow basically the catch on the show is can they lose enough weight where the doctor will perform the surgery? That's always the catch. And it's shocking how people, like, they go away for a month, six weeks, and they come back, and they've lost four pounds. Yeah.

I thought you were going to say 200. No. No. It's shocking how many times the person won't lose the weight and then they act shocked. And he's like, did you do the thing I told you to do? Well, no. And it's sad. It's so sad. And most people are – yes, there's obviously something going on with them that's causing them to be addicted to food or the process that they're in. But –

It's, you know, they're like in all that. They're just like normal people with normal hopes and fears. It's not like you think they're like off their rocker. Right. So whatever is going on is super complicated. It is. It is. Yeah. No, there's got to be a better point. Then it is sad when you have a culture that's sort of telling that person I can't speak to everybody else because you get in a body type stuff. And but when you're talking about somebody who's morbidly obese.

And it's sort of not a culturally agreed thing that we should say, okay, there's a line here. That's where it gets uncomfortable, I think. See, here's how I try to relate to this. Because I've heard people say, you don't know what it's like. You're not like an addict like I am, a food addict. And I accept that some people like food even more than others, although it is basic to all of us. But I do think I know what it is like to be a food addict because that's what I am after pot.

what we call the munchies. I think that's what some of these people have all the time. Oh, I see. So I get this, but knowing that I have this when I smoke pot, I prepare for it. It's not like I just let it happen. Do you lapse or something? No, but I know there are certain things you can do to kill your appetite, or if you're going to eat ravenously like a fucking wolf,

have food in the house that isn't bad food because the good part of being stoned like that is anything tastes good because you're so fucking stoned. So, you know, I can just go through a bag of Baruca nuts, but they're very good for me. They're, there's no, uh, they're, they're just protein and fat, which is good for you. Good fat. Uh,

And no carbs. And they're like, you know, you have to mash down with your teeth so it kind of gets that, because pot makes me, you know. So...

This is so much information. But you look, yeah, you look like you're in great shape. No, I'm a bit fat. You're a bit fat? Yeah. It runs in the family. You're tall and you always had that. I can cheat it, but yeah. Really? I'm not as lean as I need to be for this stage, that's for sure. So I have no judgment in that. You live in Chicago. I know this about you. Yes, I do. Okay. Chicago...

is not, I mean, they- - They like our big portions. - Exactly. That's what I was gonna try to say. - People come to Chicago from other parts of America and they are shocked. - I'm shocked.

And I love Chicago. It's my... Well, as I like to say, if you live inside like we do in Chicago six months a year, there's nothing to do but fucking eat. But I know several people from Chicago who I've talked to lately who are up in arms about what they feel is a very unsafe city. It's sad. And you feel the same way? We now consciously avoid going to the city. I live outside the city. Anywhere in the city? Yeah.

anywhere in the city. Wow. Which is sad. That is sad. That's where I was born. Chicago. And I've spent a lot of my life in the city and I love the city. I've written songs about the city. I wrote a whole album about the city. You know, put it this way. If you grew up in a town like I did in Chicago and you know, you know, like any town, there's the good neighborhoods and the bad neighborhoods and your partner's telling you, hey, I'm going to go down at 2 p.m.

into what is essentially a good neighborhood. And you're like, are you sure you want to go? Wow. That's where Chicago is right now. That's what I've heard. Okay. And by the way, just to add a little bit of teeth to what I'm saying, I know a lot of Chicago Police Department people. So these are the people that are dealing with it every day. And they're like, this is fucked up. They're telling me that. And it's fucked up because the cops are basically saying they're not allowed to do their job? Okay. Okay.

I'm no expert, so I'm going to just tell you what I kind of understand. First of all, we got one mayor going out the door and another one they just put in. A more liberal mayor. I understand. Who's also essentially anti-cop. So you can imagine if you're a police officer and you're getting rid of one administration that didn't have your back, and now you have another administration coming in that's also not going to have your back. They're having record retirements. They can't recruit, right? Right.

This country never reacts. It only overreacts, you know? Interesting point. Let me tell you one other thing, because this is a stated policy, okay? If I have it wrong, I apologize, but this is what I understand, and I've certainly talked to my cop friends about it. You're no longer allowed in Chicago to foot chase a criminal. Yes, I read that too. Okay. Unless they're like carrying a firearm. So if you're standing outside a store and some young person,

or an old person comes running out with 14 pairs of jeans in their hands and you go stop and they don't stop you can't chase them what is the purpose even thinking a little like this well I think that I think the political point was it it's similar to the LA thing why they don't car chase anymore because you don't want to create a dangerous scenario over a pair of jeans have they ever seen an episode of Starsky and Hutch or chips mean

Or even fucking Longstreet. I mean, Mannix. You've got to chase the cop, the bad guys. Cops have to be able to chase. You can't. I've said this many times. Democrats, when what you're doing sounds like an onion headline, stop. I don't think it strikes them that way.

But that's the point, or else they wouldn't do it. But if there was a headline in The Onion... Or in the Babylon Bee. Yes. But certainly The Onion was the place that made that a thing. Like funny headlines that sound like real headlines, but we know it's... Mike, can I tell you my favorite Onion headline of all time? Please. For the first time ever, Ray Manzarek goes five minutes without calling Jim Morrison a shaman. Yeah.

And they had fake quotes from Ray Ranzerich, like, I guess I just forgot. The Doors. That's pretty good. Great band. Great, right. I mean, when they were on... I was once offered to be on, if you remember, 2000, they did that thing where they put a bunch of singers in front of the band and they did Doors songs. Do you remember that?

They put what? You know, they did a thing like, they did their own tribute album. Oh. Where, you know, Singer X sings and they play like a classic Doors song, but it's actually Doors playing. Everybody's had those. So I was invited to do that. So you played what? I didn't.

I said, I was, I guess, high in my petard at the time, but I said, can I talk to them? And I'd met him a few times. This is Ray? Huh? This is Ray? Ray from Chicago. No, Ray Manzarek. Well, no, what I'm saying is, I think Ray was open to the idea, but the other two guys, Robbie and John. So I got on the phone with Robbie and John, and I said, they said, what is it you want to do? And I said,

Just hear me out. I said, can we write a song together? And they said, well, this is a Doors tribute record and we want to do the old songs. Just pick any song you want and we'd love to do it with you. And I said, my dream would be to write a song with you guys. Let's do a new song. Let's do a new Doors song. The first new Doors song in 30 years. And they went, no.

That is such a better idea. You're right. I was so excited. No, that says a lot about you and why I always liked you. Thank you. You, instead of, because I'm the same way. There is no such thing as the past in my life because it's over. I don't care how great it was. I'm not living it now. Well, first of all, let's start again. Everything has to be about tomorrow. I'm not going to sing it better than Jim. Right. So why do I want to do that? Right.

But it's such a cooler idea to do a new... And it was one of those things. I was like, look, if it's terrible or you don't like it, we won't put it out. Just be between us. Nope, didn't want to do it. And I bet it would have been great and fun because half the work is done because you already know what style you're doing this in. It's the doors. How amazing to be in that energy with them and just see how they work. Eddie Vedder put out this amazing track on his awesome...

It's a solo album he put out last year. And it's like in the Beatles. It's like a Beatles song. Okay. Which is not what Pearl Jam ever sounded like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he's a great singer. He's a great singer. But just to show that, oh, I can do that. And it's fun. Do you remember when you played on Politically Incorrect? I do. I was wearing a black bat dress. So was I. Which I paid a lot of money for, by the way. Way too much. You know what? This is coming back to me now.

I think I'd rather see that 600-pound guy. No. A black bat dress. I vaguely remember this now. Was it an election show? Is that why? Because we didn't normally have music. It was a special...

It was either after a Super Bowl or an election. Yes. So you were doing a special. Yes. For some reason, we were playing. Yes, because ABC, we were on ABC at the time, and they gave us like an hour. Yeah. It may have been like in the time slot, not our normal late night time slot, but after. It was a special. Right. So we wanted to have. And you got your sign over here. Something for the kids. Your old, clean, correct sign. Yeah, it's cool. And I was on as a guest a few times. That was really fun.

I love that show. You should come on my new one. My new one. I mean, my new one. It's only 21 years old. You'll probably get me in a bunch of trouble, but you're worth the trouble. Oh, thank you. It's really good to see you. Thank you. I'll do it any time. Thank you. Any place, cameras or not. Sounds good. All right. Oh, do you have anything to plug? Yeah, you have a new album. I do, but I just want to point out, somehow we got from Bob Denver to Morbid Obesity.

Two different body types. Yeah. I mean, I'm not a big fan of Tina Louise. Like I said, she did have a great body. All right. June 3rd, the Met, Philadelphia. June 4th, the Wind Creek, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. We're doing a summer tour with Rival Sons and Interpol and some dates with Stone Temple Pilots. It's going to be a great tour.

We'll even have wrestling on the tour, too. Wrestling, right? Yeah, on the National Wrestling Alliance, the oldest. So your tour, say that again? Sure. We have a summer tour with Rival Sons and Interpol. And then on some of the dates, it'll be Rival Sons and Stone Temple Pilots and Pumpkins. Stone Temple Pilots? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still going. And they sound great. Well, who's doing Scott Weiland's part? They have a young gentleman who's quite a good singer. Yeah. It's a tough gig, you know what I mean?

But here's the thing, because people always ask me what I think about, let's call it bands continuing. They should continue. What do you think about when they're 80, like Jagger and the Pink Floyd dude are now doing it at 80? Well, let's start here. They're doing me a favor if you really look at it, because they've elongated the window where people think you can have success. So on that metric, the Pumpkin still has a long road to go. And I plan on doing that.

I mean, it's nice to know it's an option. And for the people who hate on it, it's like, we'll stop doing it when they stop buying tickets. The Stones are still a stadium act. Exactly. I mean, that's pretty impressive. I know. All right, well, maybe I'll see you at the show. I'll see you at the stadium when I'm in. I'll be 106. Smoking a joint.

This was awesome. Thank you. Thank you, bro. You need to help me up. My knees are hurting. Oh, yeah. Please. See, you look like you're in fine shape. I know.