Billy Dee Williams | Club Random with Bill Maher
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. And when I got that character, Lando Calrissian, kind of bigger than life kind of character. Are you a good guy? He is dubious. If you're an actor, you should do anything you want to do. That's a great point of view, but the theater would be bombed. Come and do it.

Billy? Yeah, I'm right over here. Billy? Hey, William. Hello. How are you? Hey, great pleasure. Nice to see you. Thank you for coming. Well, thank you for having me. Oh, look at us. I'm sorry I didn't... I dressed up for you. Well, I dressed up for you. I don't usually dress, but I was like, I know this guy's going to be on point.

Get out of here. You? Are you serious? No. You know how giddy I have been all day? Like, I'm going to get, like, throw down with Billy Dee Williams. Come on, give me a break. Excuse me. Well, you know, when I was... You look marvelous, darling. When I was a kid, you know, you were like, we all wanted to be...

Like that popular with the ladies? And I don't blame you. No, I mean, just when you're a teenager, especially, you know, everything in your mind is about like, oh, look, they have Colt .45.

Got it just for you. And I have my medicine. I forgot to take my medicine this morning. And I brought my medicine with me. Maybe I should have a cold 45 with my medicine. Billy T., you don't take medicine. You drink cold 45. No, no, no, no. It's still 1978, and I'm still 16, and you... No, yeah, no, and I was always such a big fan. Well, that's very sweet of you. Thank you. Well, you know, when you're a...

Well, I was on your show a couple of times. The old show. Yeah, the old show. Right. Yeah. And I always remember that experience. Because I remember never contributing anything to any of the discussions. But that's it. You're so iconic. And you're so cool. You don't need to contribute. You contribute just by existing, you know. Because... Well, you're very kind. Thank you. No, it's so true. I mean, I don't think you know the effect you had...

on like lots of even like suburban white kids or even and that's quite what's a suburban white kid what is a suburban white kid what is that looking at one you're a suburban white kid what does a suburban white kid look like i grew up in an all-white town what does that mean jersey what what is an all-white town i never heard of an all-white town yes you did um

What do you drink? You don't care about stuff like that, do you? Really? Seriously? Care about what stuff? All white towns and black and white towns. Well, I'm just saying it's a fact. And it's a relevant fact because you were-- But do you spend a lot of time and energy thinking about this stuff? Well, race is certainly part of politics. And I certainly think about that an awful lot, yeah. Yeah, you do? Why? It's my job. It's too much trouble. It's my job. I do a show about politics.

You need to relax. Don't worry. It's going to be all right. It's my job. And I enjoy my job. My father was in news. Your father was in news? Yeah, my father was a newsman in New York. In a little white town somewhere? That's where we lived. It was a little white town. You can say it all you want. It's not going to change. That's where America was.

And it's relevant because you were an African-American movie star at a time and a leading man. I'm an African-American? What is that? Oh, for fuck's sake. When it wasn't easy. African-American. I got Indian blood in me. I got Cherokee Indian, Irish. I got... Well, again, it was relevant because it prevented you from... African, I got...

I got the whole-- I got the full spectrum of colors in me. Whatever it is, you would have gotten parts if you were-- if you came along in a different era later on that you couldn't get in the '70s and '80s. Well, that's true. Being Jewish, that's true.

It's not true being Jewish in the 70s and 80s. I don't even know who the Jewish actors were. I remember in those years, I mean, the networks were considering when they were considering what they wanted to put on television, what was going to be relevant for television. It was always those kind of considerations, which I thought was pretty silly. But this is the way people think. Yes, I agree.

Yeah, I don't remember the Jewish part of it. That I do remember. Well, in the 50s and 60s, yes. But you'd be hard-pressed to get the average man in the street to even tell you accurately which celebrities are Jewish. Some of them are obvious. I remember in the years when Molly Goldberg came along.

I'm that old. Who's Molly Goldberg? The Molly Goldberg show. Never heard of it. What's that? You never heard of it? You got to look it up. What year were we talking? We're talking about the early, the beginning of television. 50. In those years, like the 50s, 60s. Right, OK. 50s. Molly Goldberg? Yeah. You never heard of that? Never? The Molly Goldberg show? No. What was it on the Dumont Network? One of the best shows ever. What did she do? Sing? No, no, no, no. She had a, like a sitcom.

Molly Goldberg. Yeah, look it up. Oh, I'm not doubting you. I just don't know it. I just never heard it. No, it was one of the best shows on television at that time. And I grew up in New York City. Yeah. Well, I probably wasn't born, which I love being able to say. Because I don't get to say that story to many people anymore. I forget the lady's fact. This book, the editor of this book, the publisher,

uh the editor of the book um um oh my god anyway all right she was related to this woman uh uh who did the molly goldberg show um vicky vicky uh vicky oh come on billy my brain's not working anyway and she was really attractive this molly goldberg i mean she was a wonderful host wonderful it was a

Well, when I grew up in New York City, I grew up around a lot of interesting people. And my very first friend was a Jewish boy, a Bernie. And the neighborhood I moved into, my family and I moved into, was predominantly Jewish. The Jews moved out when the blacks started moving in.

And it was one of those kind of situations. But, you know, I always find all of this stuff amusing, really, personally. I find it amusing, too. I mean, there's also tragic parts of it. Of course there's tragic parts. But there's tragic parts of everything. Exactly. No, look, I've made a career laughing at things that are not on their surface funny because the news is generally tragic. But...

I mean, the alliance that we always hear about in the 60s, the civil rights era between the blacks and the Jews, I always was a little— It was a strong alliance. Like I said, I was never skeptical of it. It was a strong alliance. Well, you would know better. Yeah, absolutely. So it really fell apart. I mean, Kanye aside, but I mean— Well, I mean, we're talking about this generation? Yeah.

I don't know what this generation is all about. I don't either. It's a whole new thing. Well, they're fragile. They're hothouse plants. What about misinformed? They were raised wrong. What about misinformed? What about not having... Yes, some of it is not their fault, of course. What about not having a sense of history? Right. No, absolutely. You're so right. They do not...

but it's not their fault because, you know, it's not the responsibility of the child to instruct themselves. I never had to worry about that. In my little town, whatever color it was, we just went to school. You went to school. So did I. I know. I'm just saying they taught you the basics. They taught you the shit. I didn't leave that school until I knew basically everything that like a normal individual

intelligent person should know. Not anything from Nobel Prize winner in literature or science, just a regular person would know these things and kids today know nothing. They know you don't have to know anything and they will sign that diploma and kick you out the door if you even finish it.

It's criminal, yes. They don't know anything. But it doesn't sap their confidence in still opining on everything as if they did know something, like about Gaza, stuff like that. They don't know nothing. Well, you know, I think the 21st century has certainly presented some challenges

that we all have to deal with right now. I mean, things have changed tremendously. Yes, I'm always saying that. I'm always saying... It doesn't mean that it can't be corrected. Right. And it will be corrected. AI will certainly correct everything. I mean, I have to believe in it because being 68, I'm...

looking at AI to make me immortal. Okay, why don't I just say it? I'm just going to come out with it, make me immortal. That is what I'm looking for, and I'm looking to AI to do it. No, we're creating stuff that can move a lot faster than the brain can move. Yes. The brain has created something...

That can move a lot faster than your own brain. No, I mean, you're absolutely right. The risk of AI is probably greater than it making me immortal. But since I am 68, I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with the risk. And if it kills the rest of humanity, I'd like to say I'm sorry.

But maybe it's the next step. I mean, it's like the Industrial Revolution. There was the Industrial Revolution, and it created all of these... Yes, but this is an exponential... I think this is exponentially different. This is different. But exponentially, you know? Yes. Right. And that's the fear, is that... But so was in the Industrial Revolution. Well, I don't know if it was exponential. I mean, I think if you measured...

the difference in people's lives, yes, it did change. It's all going to change, Bill, no matter what. You know, somebody wrote a book or essay once about a very controversial thing at the time to the tech bros because they didn't like hearing this. But the point of it was that all the inventions between 1850 and 1903

were actually more consequential in people's lives than anything. And this is pre, when this essay was written, pre the smartphone, I would say that. But he was saying that from 1850 to 1903, we had things like refrigeration and electricity and the telephone and air travel. And these things were actually more influential and changed people's lives more than the internet.

As great as the internet, as influential as it was, it wasn't electricity. And I would say the smartphone

then came along and I think that is because it's changing. But certainly what you're saying is one perspective. I mean, there are many perspectives. Of course. I'm only one person. I mean, I can only have one. What am I? A hydra? You are a product of what was introduced to you at a very early point in your life. So your perspective is... But we don't want to go there because it involves my town. And everybody's perspective is based on

Where it all begins. Exactly. And that certainly is the case with religion. And that's what my book is about, by the way. Your book. Tell me all about your book, because I just got it today, but I can't wait to dive into your life. No, it's a very interesting life, because I started, I mean, you know, when you're very young and you're,

being presented a kind of eclectic perspective on the life experience because of the people that raised you and their perspective on their life experience. I feel very fortunate that I came from a people who are interested in everything on every single level.

I mean, there was never this discussion about black or white, white or black. It was like, you know, you had things to do and you did it.

I couldn't agree more. I mean... You know, you had a family to raise, and you raised them. Right. And you have children, you're going to introduce them to all of the things that could be beneficial to them. Which is not to negate the idea that it is a factor. Race and racism is a factor. My grandmother was one of the biggest bigots ever, the first bigot I ever met. Who did she hate? She came from... She didn't hate anybody. She didn't like... Well, I'm...

She wasn't that extreme. OK, but against-- who is she bigoted against? Jews? Well, she was a West Indian. She was from the British West Indies. Right. And she from Montserrat. And she was a British subject. And she never became a citizen. She always remained a British subject. Used to sit around the house singing, "Hail Britannia, Britannia rule the waves. Britain never, never shall be slaves." My grandfather worked on the Panama Canal.

Is that right? The Panama Canal. He was one of the workers on the Panama Canal. Holy shit. But I come from a family of very industrial kind of people. The Panama, wait, that is, this is your grandfather. This is my grandfather. Wow. On my mother's side of the family. The Panama Canal was complete. My father's side of the family, they were all cowboys from Texas. They were sharecroppers.

I mean, but these are the kind of things that I really wanted to kind of express in this book. I wanted to talk about not people who are complaining about what they didn't have or what they should have. No, I mean, again, not that it's not a factor. It's just that--

Life is such a complex mixture of advantages and disadvantages, some that you could not calculate. I mean, just having a bad personality is a terrible thing. I'd rather be black with a great personality, certainly in this year, than white with a bad personality. Get off of that. Stop that. Stop that. Forget about that. Stop that. You know, you're right. Stop that. Well...

I'll just finish that thought by saying, like, of all the things that men probably dream about,

I mean, you were given a bounty of that, which is attractiveness to the opposite sex. You know, you were a sex symbol. What? You're probably still, you're probably still pulling. No? Okay. Why is that a laugh? I don't know, because it is. It's just funny to me. But you know it's true. I see myself as a walking absurdity.

Well, I mean-- It's more fun to be a walking absurdity than to be attractive and lovely and be desirable. Stop talking with me. I'm telling you, I was there. I watched television. I went to the movies. I lived it. I was born in 1956. When you were, like, in these commercials and the movies and Richard Pryor and all this stuff, like, come on, man.

Your life must have been fun.

A lot of fun. No, I mean, my life is interesting. They'll say that much, at least. You don't cover that in the book, the orgies? Oh, orgies. Yeah, the orgies. I talk about the orgies. Well, most people don't have orgy stories at all. You know, I remember. I don't have any orgy story. When I was a kid, one of my favorite books was J.D. Salinger's Catching a Rye. And I always related to that kid. He was this sort of, he was this sort of,

having this great, wonderful, incredible adventure without malice. That was the kind of kid I was. And I just found myself in situations that I didn't ask for, I didn't look for, but I found myself in those situations. And it was all just, for me, it was just simply an adventure. And beyond that, I just use it.

Maybe to do a painting or use it in some character I play, in some project that I'm doing. You would scoff and laugh at method acting. What? Scoff and laugh at method acting. Method acting, I came up in that during that whole period. Like I say, that's really what you do best is method acting.

But no, it sounds to me like you just wanted to-- I just do acting. And method acting is nothing more than simply finding a way to approach your craft or your art in your own way. So you did engage in it. Well, I mean, some actors, they just say, hit your mark and bark. But I didn't come from that point of view. I came from a point of view of being serious about my craft. No, you were. I'm just--

It sounded to me like you were saying that you were just, you know, content to... But I was a funny, I was a silly little kid doing silly little things. And I used it in the way, as far as my creativity was concerned. So you always, like from a childhood, thought you were going to go into this? Into what? Show business.

No, I got into show business because my mom introduced me to show business. My mom... At what age? Mommy wanted to be an opera singer. She studied opera for many years. She was working for Ben Boyer and Max Gordon, who were managers and producers on Broadway at the time at the Elysium Theater. And they were doing...

this play, a musical by Kurt Weill. And they needed a little boy to play this character, a page boy. And you were how old? And I was six and a half years old.

And so my mommy took me to the theater and had me audition. And I got on the stage. They had me walk across stage one time, two times. And they said, thank you, Billy. That's enough. And I decided that I was really smitten by then, the whole idea of being on that stage. And so at that point, I wanted to do it the third time. And they said no. And I said, and we continued.

When they tried to stop me, I started crying. And I always say I cried my way into show business. But it was all in... Everything that my life... The way I look at my life is it was all an introduction. To what? To whatever I was going to do. It was an introduction. It was all being introduced to me. I didn't ask for it. I didn't look for it. You know, every time I...

said, every time I wanted to go right, something would say, no, no, no, Billy, go left. And what do you attribute? Do you have a spirit? Do you believe in the spirit? There is a, I think there's a part of an energy that I think we all have in our lives. Yeah, I do. Yeah, you definitely do. There's no question about it.

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Hey, Club Random fans, guess what I did? I wrote a damn book. Look, it's real with printing on every page. Yes, it's a book for grownups, but it'll make you laugh a lot so you'll feel like a kid. How do I know you'll laugh? Because the essays in this book were LOL tested by the real-time audience every Friday night for many years. Everything is covered. Republicans, Democrats, Trumpsters, wokesters, free speech, media, cancel culture, kids today.

Sex, love, gobs, technology, showbiz, race, drugs, religion, money, guns. It is a virtual encyclopedia of every good thing I ever said for the last 20 years. I guess it should have been a little thicker, but what can you do? It's called What This Comedian Said Will Shock You, and it's available for pre-order now where you get your books or at SimonAndSchuster.com. Never smoked pot? No, I never smoked pot. No drugs? No. No drugs? Oh, except LSD.

Yeah, that might sneak in under the drug line. What about Coke? No. Yeah, that's a bad one. No, no, no. Yeah, I'm sorry. I don't like all that kind of stuff, really, to tell you the truth. Right. I get it, but it is amazing how many show people who you would think have everything going for them somehow find a way to ruin it by doing too much drugs.

No, but that's not just showbiz people. There's a lot of people. I had two cousins, two brothers, one thrown off a roof because he was owed money to some drug dealers. And his brother ended up dying from heroin. But I used to, at some point, I used to try to help heroin addicts.

I would turn them on to methadone, only to find out that I was just turning them on to another drug. Then I stopped doing that, trying to be helpful. But you knew Pryor, didn't you? Were you friends with Richard Pryor? Yeah, I knew Pryor very well. What do you make of that drug? I mean, I remember... Well, he was a silly boy. A silly boy. I mean, he was a great... He was a silly boy. And his silliness brought him to a...

a place where he didn't allow himself to really grow and expand and become something beyond how he ended. You think growing up in the whorehouse had anything to do with it? Yes, of course. Really? Oh, absolutely. That's what I'm just getting back to. When a child starts with a point of view,

Oh, it's like kids who are taught to kill people. Right. You know, and there are certain people in this world who teach their children to become killers. So they end up being killers. So you're saying growing up in the whorehouse...

Well, with you, the hose came much later. But no. But what you're saying is you're a child. You're impressionable. Right. But I'm just trying to fill in the dots here. How does that actually manifest itself when you get out in the world? OK, I'm a child. I'm growing up in a whorehouse. It's terrible. It becomes part of your psyche.

the psyche of horse trading sex for money? Yeah, it's there. That's in your brain? Even when you think you want to get-- there are some people, by the way, who go through bad experiences. And I think you understand this, who don't end up

Yeah, fucked up. Yeah. I know. I've thought the same thing. Why does one person, they go through, you know their background, you know they're not lying, they tell you the most horrendous stories, abuse as a child, and the father and the uncle or whatever, and they're the nicest people.

And they seem to have no bitterness. And then some other people, it just fucks up. Why? That is the key question in psychology and so many sociological disciplines. Why? You put people under the same circumstance. What makes some go this way and some go that way? Well, I guess that's a question we've been asking for a long, long time. No, I don't have. We're all still looking for the answer to that.

Who knows? I know. This is, you know, why this planet? Why all of these situations on this planet? If you really want to take it back further, it's why anything. If you could say, okay, what if we could say, I mean, they believe that the universe started with the Big Bang Theory. Okay, so now we put a time on it 14 billion years ago.

All of the universe was created in a massive explosion and all the trillions of planets and stars. But why do that? And then we end up with... Why do that? But you end up with duality, at least. I mean, they really wanted a big beginning, you know? Well, I mean, the thing that...

I'm not a religious person. Oh, good. I'm a person that... Thank you, Jesus. No, no, but I don't mean it to be... I'm not saying that people who want to be religious, that's fine. Exactly. That's fine. But I feel that there's a lot more to this question of life than just simply creating some image called God

I totally agree. I mean-- I think that we're much more than that. We're much greater than that. And it's much more mysterious than that. Right. It's-- Yeah, we can't-- I just want to-- for me, I just want to continue on one path. And that path is to, instead of doing this, I want to do this. I want to spend my life doing this. With who? With the world. Of the world?

I think you've already been there. I'm just saying you've had a lot of... I want to continue doing it. A lot of ladies like you. No, no, forget about that part. I can't forget about it. Okay, don't forget about it. It was too much of an important part of my youth. Okay, fine. That's great. But that's not the...

It's always a... Yeah, I get it. You're not... Yeah, you're more than that. Okay, let me put it this way. I'm used to it. I'm not. I'm not used to it. I mean, it's no big deal to me. Yeah, but you have to understand, like, so much of... I'm going to pass through all of this. You're going to pass through all of this. I can't speak for you. I can only speak for myself. But so much of... I'm going to pass through all of this.

I'm going to go, you know, the brain is like this library. And this library holds all of the experiences that you've contributed to this experience, at least for me. I'm thinking, only talking about myself. Once I'm out of here, and I'm going to be out of here, the flesh is gone, it's over. Forget about the flesh. That's not important. But now...

At some point, if in fact I'm going to be faced with something else, I want to be faced with it knowing that I've contributed all the productive, positive kind of energy. Well, good for you. So if AI could keep you going, you still wouldn't? AI...

That's not my world. I'm out of here. But if it could, if they came to you in five years and said, AI, because that's very possible. AI has basically found a way to... That's not my world. It's not going to be my world. It's not your world, but it would affect your world because you'd have to make a decision. My world is going to be gone. I'll be out of here.

In five years? It's for you to do. You have to deal with it, not me. Well, you could be totally here in five years. I won't be here in five years. Really? You think you'll be dead in five years? I'll be dead in five years. Well, I'm glad we got you today. Oh, good. I finally got a laugh out of him. I'll be out of here. I'll be out of here. You will not be out of here. OK, listen, if you're not out of here in five years, you have to come back.

What do you want? Nothing. Oh, OK. I can tell. I don't want anything. If you're here in five years, you have to come back. And also, and then you have to answer that question, which is, if AI-- OK, if I'm here for five years-- Yes.

I'm just going to look at AI and say, AI. Thank you. Hello. Let's have a glass of wine. Yeah, let's. AI. To AI not being all evil. Let's. OK, you can be evil, but also keep us alive. No, talk about AI and talk about evil.

That's the scary part. The scary part is we got two kinds of people in this life, good people and bad people. Wow. That's not true. Well, let me just finish. You got the good guy and you got the bad guy. Hopefully...

The bad guy doesn't get a hold of AI and take control of it to any degree. But come on, Billy. I mean, that's a little simplistic. That's Star Wars. There's nothing simplistic about that. There's only good guys and bad guys. You call that simplistic? There is good in... You call that simplistic? Yes, sir, I do. There is good in bad people, and there's bad in good people. We're mostly a complex mixture of those two things. Yes, sometimes... Let's appeal to the better side of the... Okay.

But that's a very, I mean, you know, look, I have to admit. Whatever all of this new, what we're dealing with, technology is all about, hopefully this technology is going to be in the hands of people who are going to use it for the future.

No, I couldn't agree more. The betterment. It's almost the keyest question there is. Yeah. And that's the big question. But science fiction writers have been writing about this stuff for generations. Right. No, and that's a very open question because I've met most of the big tech bros. They run the gamut. I mean, there are some who, ugh, and some I really like, and some in the middle.

like Elon, genius, and could save humanity, and also goes off and does really silly, unnecessary, unforced error kind of things, and embraces people I just don't understand. I get why you would want to allow everyone to speak. I am pro-free speech, so I get that. But then don't put a bear hug around the worst of them. Yeah.

That I don't get. But that's what I mean about we're not good or bad. We're a mixture. We're all jelly rolls. There's absolutely no question about that. There's duality. Right. Yeah. But hopefully within these constructs of the duality, we can appeal to the better side of ourselves. Yes.

You know, and that's the great test and the great mystery. You know, the fact that we come on, we're on this planet. I know. And we've been trying to figure out why we're on this planet for as long as human beings have existed. That subject interests you, like cosmology. Is that why you wanted to do Star Wars?

Star Wars. You know why I wanted to do Star Wars? You have to forgive me, but I don't know anything about Star Wars. Really? I could never get into Star Wars. Well, I'm one of these people who, if I'm going to be creative, let me be creative as an individualist. I don't want to do anything based on this whole idea that you're a black person or you're a white person and things of that nature.

I'm an artist. I'm a creative entity in this life. Right. I want to take-- if you give me something that I can play with. And when I got that character, Lando Calrissian, first of all, Calrissian, I said to myself, that's an Armenian name. Let me see what I can do with that. Right. And then when I got the cape, I said, wow, this adds to the whole idea of creating this kind of bigger than life kind of character. Are you a good guy?

He is dubious. See? He's good, but that makes the character very interesting. Of course. You know the Greek mask, Janus, the god with half the mask where it's half one face and half the other. That's all of us. I mean, they knew that back then. The Greeks knew that. Yeah, but as a creative entity in this life, a person in this life, what do you do when you've presented something like that? You sort of like...

Instead of like playing politics with it, see if you can take it and make it something interesting. I couldn't agree more. And innovative. And you did. And that was what I wanted to do. That must have been lucrative. Absolutely. And nothing wrong with that.

Oh, I'm a capitalist. Me too. No, it's, you know, capitalism. I don't mind being a capitalist. Capitalism is. I think most of us as a capitalist don't want to admit it. Well, capitalism is like what Churchill said about democracy. It's the worst form except for all the others, you know? Like that's what is so bad about the kids getting back to that and not knowing anything. They think, oh, let's give communism another try. No, kids, we did try it.

We did try it. Vladimir Lenin took over Moscow in 1917, and it was a long experiment, and it was horrible. So we don't need to try that again. Well, I don't know. We got Lucifer in the world right now. Trump? I'm just saying Lucifer. Oh, you mean literally? I'm just saying Lucifer. I know you're saying it, and I know you're wearing his coat. Ha ha ha!

See, everybody thinks that Lucifer wears red. Come on, this isn't-- Lucifer is always-- --exactly wears-- --always in red. --with a black shirt. Yes, this is exactly what Lucifer wears.

Really? Yes. Are you serious? And you would be a great Lucifer. Sexy, irresistible to women. You know, Dracula. No, no. Bela Lugosi did that already. Did what? He did Lucifer in his own wonderful... He was Dracula. Well, but that was a Lucifer character.

And it was brilliant. It was sexy. It has everything, all the elements that you're talking about. You're saying Dracula is an avatar of Lucifer? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, certainly they could be in the same social circle. You know, I could see that. You know, I could see Dracula coming over to a party and Lucifer opens the door. But he was sexy as all hell. Right. Right.

Yes, always. Well, bad boys are sexy, as look who I'm talking to. I mean, absolutely. I always tried to be bad. I don't think about that. You know, I don't even think. You know, there are studs. I'm not a stud. Oh. I'm a romantic.

Okay, well, that's exactly what a stud would say. No, no, no, no, no. That's your idea of what a stud would say. Well, you know, it's easy for you pretty boys. You're a pretty boy. You're a very successful, pretty young man. Well, successful, I don't know. You keep yourself in good shape. That's different. That's not exactly a pretty boy. But, yes, I'm successful. You're unmarried? I don't see any rings on your finger. I never got married.

68 years and I kept my toe out of the trap. I think that's, come on, a little high five there, Billy Dee. Come on. Well, I've done it three times. How did it work out? It's all very amusing to me. There's a built-in problem, right? I'm an 87-year-old man. I'm an old man. Wow, 87. You look good. You don't even have wrinkles on your face.

Yeah, because I got good genes. You and I should go to the old age home right now. We'd pull a couple of bitches like it was nothing. No, I bet you still, I mean, I've had people say to me who are in the, you know, 50 and up range that women are,

approach them and say things like, you're iconic, and then they get laid. People actually get iconic pussy in show business. I mean, that's pretty great. Well, you're being very crude right now. Oh, I'm being crude? Yes. Suddenly we're in church with Billy Dee Williams? Jesus fucking Christ. I don't talk in those terms. Ha ha ha.

I get your personality now. It's interesting. It's like an actor's technique. It is? Yes. You think it's an actor's technique? Yes. Like, it's deliberately... What about a sense of morality? It's deliberately contrarian. What about a sense of morality? You're like, you know what? Your thing is like, you know what's not interesting? Agreeing.

So, like, whatever he, when he says. No, that's your thing. When he says X, I'll say Y. It's okay. I can keep up. I like it. I'll play any game you want. That's your perspective. That's your point of view. I'm just so happy you're here. I'll play any game you want. You say X, I'll say Y. Or you say Y. I don't want to play again. You know what? I can play in the other team. You say X after I say Y, and then I'll tell you why X is the right answer. How about that? William.

Monsieur William Maher. Billy. Billy Dee. In my house. I'm not about to play any games with anybody. I don't need to. I don't want to. You sure don't. And I'm not good at it. You sure don't. You are playing with the house money, don't you think?

I mean, don't you think it all came out? I'm not playing. I'm just being a nice little guest on this show. Club Random is brought to you by the audio marketing gurus at Radioactive Media. There's nothing more frustrating than finishing in second place or worse, in last. Wouldn't you like your company to win...

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Go to RadioActiveMedia.com or text RANDOM to 511-511. Text RANDOM to 511-511 today to save up to 50%. Terms, conditions, message, and data rates may apply. Hey, I'll be at the Arizona Financial Theater in Phoenix, Arizona, May 4th. May 18th, I'll be at the Borgata, the casino I love in Atlantic City. And May 19th at the Palace Theater in Albany, New York.

Now, like, what is your average-- give me your average day. My average day is getting up at-- waking up at 6 o'clock in the morning. What? Not getting out of bed until maybe 10-- between 10 and 12. That's my man. Going and having lunch with my buddies. Lunch meaning breakfast?

No. Your first meal. Brunch. How about brunch? There you go. But your first meal of the day. When I hang out with my buddies, one of my buddies is Rod Dyer. He used to own the Panavino's. There were a bunch of these guys. Panavino's, the restaurant. Yeah, the restaurant, yeah. On, where was it? It was on Beverly. Is it gone? How do you say it? Poinsettia, yeah.

Is it gone? Oh, yeah, it's gone now. I mean, I think it's a different restaurant. But that whole generation is-- Did you live in LA, Hollywood, '70s and '80s? Yeah. OK. I settled here in California in 1971. We don't look at it as settling. But I've been coming here since 1958.

How long? 58? Since 1958, yeah. How old were you in 1958? I was about 20, maybe. 20, okay. That's right. You're 86. I was in my very first movie with one of the great actors this country has ever produced. Who's that? Paul Muni. Paul Muni? Yeah. He must have been 80 then. Paul Muni was a 30s actor. He was in his 60s and died soon after.

And we were very good friends. He was a wonderful man. But at that time, he was blacklisted, came back to the United States. Right. He must have been older at the time, though. No, no. He was 64 at the time. OK. Because in his heyday, I think he was so powerful that I believe he's the actor. I could be wrong. But one of the actors back then liked him. He played Daniel Zola. He played Pasteur. OK. He was the original Scarface. And, um...

He was not Robin Hood, right? That was... No, no, no, no, no. Okay, all right.

But I think what Paul Muni did was he- I learned your history. I get the one slightest thing wrong. You're in show business, you know? Right. Jesus Christ, I'm going to flagellate myself tonight for missing out the 30s actor. I know who played Robin Hood. It was, you know- Errol Flynn. Errol Flynn. Correct.

Okay, but Paul Muni, I think, was the one who insisted that every, I think it was in his contract, his character had to be the title of the movie. Like Captain Blood. Oh, no, that was Errol Flynn. No, no, no, no. Maybe this was Errol Flynn. No, no, no. Somebody had that in their contract. I had no idea who that is.

Okay. But you're a student of that period of movie history? Yeah, I grew up in those years, you know, with Cagney and G. Robinson. How much was a movie in that era? Oh, my God. Saturday? Yeah. On a Saturday? 25 cents or something? Something like that. Wow. 10, 25 cents, yeah. Wow.

Unbelievable. It was, you know, I was thinking about it the other day. I thought, my God. You know, I can remember when there was the old adage, ignorance is bliss. Yes. I mean, unless you knew, everybody was happy about that. Now everybody knows everything. It's like complete, it creates such...

Yes. And what do you attribute that to? Like the phone, I would say. Yeah, technology. Technology has changed everything in our lives. And it's amazing the way, again, we're seeing it with AI. We never really get ahead of the technology. We should. We saw it with the phone, the internet. It's like, no, we just let it loose really before we work the bugs out. Whatever it's going to do, it's going to do. And then we deal with it.

And maybe we ran out of bullets in the Russian roulette gun with AI because this is one where we let out way before they should have worked out the bugs because they have not worked out the bugs. I mean, that thing, when they do war game testing, they go to the nuclear option way too soon, which people have not done for 75 years. We could have blown each other up, and we did not. 80 years. Well, 75 when we both had it.

So, well, it's a mystery, I'll tell you. It's a mystery. Oh, you'd be a good Hercule Perrault. You've been a detective before, right? Oh, I've done the whole detective thing, yeah. Of course. You know something? What's so funny? I am probably one of the...

nicest, gentlest people you'll ever want to meet in your whole life. I'm loving it. And when I think of myself playing these tough guys, I know how to play a tough guy. As a matter of fact, when I was a kid growing up, my mother once said to me, you know, the best tough guys in movies are the guys who are the nicest guys. G. Robinson. Edward G. Robinson, sure. He once said to me, when I met him, I did a play with Laurence Olivier's wife.

Joni Plowright on Broadway. And we were out here doing the play before we went to Broadway with it. And I'll never forget, he knew-- well, Angela Lansbury was also on the play. And he came backstage. And as I was leaving my dressing room, he says, kid, kid, kid.

You're a good actor, kid. You are a good actor. I'll never forget that. Everything you do, you can't take your eyes off. Well, you're very kind. But it's true. Thank you. There's no other way careers last as long as yours do and people retain the affection. Anyway, all right, so you have lunch with your buddy. Yes. We're back to your day. Well, today was Rod, Don Lewis,

They'll love this when they hear I'm talking and saying their names. Gary Chapman, who's a wonderful sculptor. And these are people you-- And doing a piece for me, as a matter of fact. Oh, really? These are people you just met along the way? No, these are guys I've known for many, many years. Like I say, known for many years, met along the way. And-- Yeah, along the way, we met each other, yes. You know?

And we're all inspiring, though. I mean, so many of them. So many of them just. You know who used to have this going on in his life? Larry King. Really? Larry King had the same breakfast every day with the same group of guys. You know, it's just a thing that you can do. Larry King. I'll never forget Larry King.

He interviewed me once. Of course. He interviewed everybody. And he wanted me to talk about the racial question. Oh, well, I could have told him to get off of that. And I refused to get in my own little quiet way. I didn't want to get into it. That's my guy. And I don't think he likes me since then. Oh, well. He never invited me on his television show.

This was before you had a television show? This was a radio show. Jesus Christ, you go back far. I mean, you were Larry Clark's radio show and Paul Muni and wow.

Listen, Olivier, I spent time with you. Olivier. I used to spend time talking to Olivier. What was he like? Because I was the biggest Lawrence Olivier fan, possibly because when I was a kid, my father thought, oh, Lawrence Olivier. Because he was kind of known as the De Niro of his era, right? The greatest actor. Now, there are people who have diverging opinions. There are people who say he was a ham.

And he certainly was not a method actor. There's nothing wrong with being a ham. Nothing wrong with it at all. But he was from that school of acting. There's that famous story when he did Marathon Man with Dustin Hoffman, and Dustin Hoffman stayed up for three days so that in the scene where he's being operated on by the dentist, he can look frazzled and out of his mind. And Laurence Olivier apparently said to him, dear boy, why don't you just try acting?

Maybe he was right. Well, I mean, both are valid. They are. Both are valid. They both come from two schools of acting. Whatever works. Whatever works is mine. But Olivier, the thing I always loved about Olivier, I remember we used to have a lot of discussions. Whenever I was just a 23-year-old kid,

He must have tried to fuck you. And I remember the first time I met him, I gave him a kiss on the cheek. Well. And I thought, oh my god, this guy thinks I'm gay.

No, I think he was half. No, no, I know all about all of that. Listen, I grew up with all of that. That doesn't matter to me. You didn't grow up with all that. All of the gay and what's gay and what's not gay. All of this discussion that we people find ourselves miring in these days. This is a joke to me. But anyway. This is what I mean about you. You're so attractive.

See, I never had-- Guys have hit on me all my life. And they haven't on me. I'm just saying this is a difference. Like, sometimes a guy is so attractive to women, even the guys want to fuck him. I'm just saying this is-- you're blessed. OK, yeah. Just say thank you. Which is fine. Thank you, Jesus. It's fine. But anyway, with Olivier-- I'm sure it was more than fine. Olivier was-- the thing I liked about Olivier was that-- His balls tasted-- Whenever I had-- what?

You're ridiculous. I like your shoes, by the way. Thanks. I like yours. Those are like spats. Spats. My father used to wear spats. Really? Yeah. But Olivier was... The thing I loved about Olivier was he was like a kid. He was like a little kid. Is that right? He was like this... He was doing...

The play with, I think, Anthony Quinn. Beckett, I think, at the time. Beckett. He was right next door to us in New York. Beckett's a great play. But the beauty of Olivier was that he was never trying to impress me with this Olivier person. He was always, every time I had a question I wanted to ask,

He wouldn't allow me to, he wouldn't let me ask the question. He was always busy probing me. I'll bet he was.

I'll bet he was very busy probing you. Oh, okay. But, I mean, he wanted to know. I thought about it that way. I believe I brought that up at the beginning. Listen, I have a very innocent way of looking at these things. Well, you were young. Yes, I was. Look, there were two times in my heart. But anyway, let me just tell this story. All right, please do. Okay. You know, I said to him, I remember saying, have you ever thought about playing Othello?

And he said, no. He said, yeah, I thought about playing Othello, but I always see, do you remember who Paul Rosen? I was just going to say, before you finish the story about Othello, for the people who don't know what Othello is, and I know you hate to talk about race, but Othello is a Shakespearean play. He's a Moor. He's black. He's from North Africa. And his...

Right. And it was a Shakespearean play. Okay, but... Don't forget to say that. I said that at the beginning. It's a Shakespearean play. So race is relevant here. Sometimes race has to be brought up. I'm sorry. Anyway, but this was a cute moment, I think. I think. So Olivier would have had to have done it in blackface. He did it. He finally did it. He did it, but he said... In blackface? He said he didn't want to... He wanted to do it, but he always...

had this vision of, or picture of Robeson and Robeson's stature and Robeson's voice. Paul Robeson was black. And his voice. For people who don't know, Paul Robeson. Okay, yeah, he was a black man. Who sang, oh man, river. Yes, yes. And who was a communist. He just, yes, and he was a communist. A communist socialist? Well, a socialist is a communist. Yeah. I mean, of extremes, I would say. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. I mean, after all, we are not socialists. Anyway, his vision was this Rosen. So finally when he did it, he filmed it. I don't know if you've ever seen it, his performance of it. If you ever get a chance to see it, it's really interesting. I bet you they don't allow you anymore. But he...

He did something that, because he was known to be a bit outrageous. There were two schools of acting at that time. The Edmund Keene School of Acting, which was like a gilgud neck up. And then there was a neck up.

Yeah, you know, it was the words, the words, rather than being physical. Right, OK. Olivier was more physical. OK. In fact, he got criticized a lot for being physical and doing things with his voice. That was a bit outrageous. Wow. But when he did Othello, I fell out laughing. He stuck his ass out.

And he walked around with his ass. Problematic. You know, it was like, you know, because black people are supposed to have big asses, right? Oh, I understand. I fell out laughing. And Bradley Cooper thinks he's got a problem with the nose. I thought it was hysterical. I loved it. I loved it. But see, I love that kind of stuff.

Yes. Big asses? Who doesn't? No, no. No, I know. I agree. OK. But here's the thing. Today, I mean, they would never let you do that. Why?

Blackface? Why not? Because. You should do it. That's maybe, that's your point of view. If you're an actor, you should do anything you want to do. That's a great point of view, but the theater would be bombed. I mean, Mewley and I used to talk about this all the time.

Muley was the first person that I worked with in those years who said to me, as an actor, you should be able to do whatever you think you can do. You should be able to do it. But again, not to bring up your sore point, but you actually lived in a period where you couldn't do that.

where you couldn't play the part you should have played. But it didn't matter. The point is... And that's a great attitude, but it still did happen. Of course it happened. Okay. But the fact is that you discuss it. Anybody can talk about it means that it wasn't happening. But the point is... And Paul Muni comes from an era... You don't go through life feeling like...

I'm a victim. Correct. I couldn't agree with that more. I'm just... I mean, I refuse to go through life saying to the world, I'm pissed off. I'm not going to be pissed off 24 hours a day. And you shouldn't because of all that pussy you got. That's what I've been trying to tell you. But you're a very sick person. I am not a sick person.

You're a very funny person. Thank you. I'm glad you think so. Look, Paul Muni... Did you like George Carlin, by the way? Who worked on the Panama Canal. I'm sorry, who? Did you like George Carlin? The best. Are you kidding? He was an artist. Oh, total artist. Like, non-pariah. Like, there's no match.

When he died, he was playing the Orleans Hotel in London. Who was it? The English actor Olsen? What's his name? Olsen. The one that played Churchill? Great actor. I think you mean... Somebody... Who?

There's no one else here. Don't worry, we're alone. Somebody was telling me today. I'll think of it. Great actor. He is a great actor. But we're drunken stones, so we can't think of his name. But it's no reflection on him acting. The acting is...

Gary Olsen? Yes, Gary Oldman, who played Dracula in Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula. Brilliant, brilliant. Because he doesn't, like Streep, Meryl Streep, they disappear into these characters. Well, again, that's back to our discussion about the different brands of acting. I mean, you can be both. I can see somebody was telling me today that he's trying to do George Collins' life. Who is?

Gary Oldman. Gary Oldman as George Carlin? I would love to see if he could pull that one off. I would pay at the Nickelodeon to see that one. I would love to see if he could pull that one off. That's an interesting subject because George Carlin, besides being such a great comedian, had a very up-and-down life. I mean, you know, what? What is the best kind of character you can play? That's what I'm saying. It would be an interesting movie. Yeah. Yeah.

But the problem with it is it is almost impossible to portray stand-up comedy. You can either do it or don't do it. But whenever they try to portray it, it's just cringy. It is. What did you think of playing Lenny Bruce? Cringy. You didn't like it? I'm a stand-up comic. I mean, to us, it's nails on a chalkboard. Well, you're an artist.

Thank you. I think so. And Lenny Bruce was an artist. But when you try to take that into this other dimension of recreating something that has to be just real, Tom Hanks, who's such a brilliant guy that I remember in the 80s when he came to the improv because he was doing a movie about a stand-up, playing a stand-up, and he wasn't a stand-up.

And he kind of learned how to... He's good at it, though. Exactly. He kind of learned how to be one in just a few months. But, you know, it's still... It's not the kind of art where you... It's a sensibility, isn't it? It's a total sensibility. It's an instinct for...

I think finding the thing that no one else is really noticing or saying that everyone is thinking, or if you mention it, would agree with in their mind, you know, at its best, I think it's about honesty. That to me has always been, and that was Carlin too. Carlin was not like Republican or Democrat. He was honest.

He just called out bullshit wherever. Well, the whole thing about God, I thought, was... And God, yes. He was certainly inspirational for me. That was interesting. Coming out as an atheist, yes. That made it okay. No, I mean, he was looking at the hypocrisy. Yeah, well, I mean, it's all hypocrisy. I mean, they just shamelessly make it up as they go along. It's amazing how much hypocrisy we have in this wonderful, beautiful country called...

Well, the world, not just the country. The world, yes. But was your family religious? Were you brought up in that? Yeah, yeah. They were? What, church? Well, I was baptized, I think, Presbyterian, I think. My grandmother was the English church. Anglican. Anglican. She was an Anglican. My father was a Baptist.

My mother and my sister eventually became a Jehovah Witness, which was always very interesting. I learned one thing about the Jehovah Witness people. They're really sweet, lovely, wonderful people. They just could be a pain in the neck. Michael Jackson was one for a while. Yeah, yeah. And so was Prince, wasn't he?

I'm not sure what Prince was. He certainly was super religious. I remember when he was such a big fan of mine, and that definitely went away, I think, because what I would say about religion. But your comedy is sort of, there's a lot of intellect in your comedy.

That will drive people away, too. But I don't think that drove Prince away. I think he was a very smart guy. And arrogance. You have arrogance. Thank you. Would you like to borrow some? Oh, I think you're sad. I mean, arrogance is, I think, not the correct word. I mean, like cockiness can bleed into arrogance.

It depends on where you, you know, people have different ideas of where the needle should be. I like to think that I can, like, stop it before it gets fully into arrogant. But you have to be a little cocky to be in this business. I mean, do you think a normal man could wear a red jacket? I don't. I mean, you have to be a little confident in yourself. I'm a normal man. Right.

You never been in a fight in your life? One fight in my whole entire life as a little boy, and that boy became one of my dearest friends. Yeah, I never had much violence in my life either. I was very lucky. I do not like violence. No, who does? Well, some people do. No, there are people who love it. Oh, yeah. I grew up with boys who loved violence. Right, they loved getting into a fight. I was never one of those people. No, I wasn't either. I always wanted to be a lover, not a fighter.

Like I said, you know, three times a lady. That's what I call women. As my grandmother would say, you're incorrigible. So you're married now, speaking of women? Yeah, yeah. I'm still married. Married for... So this is your third wife. My third wife. Third's the charm. How long have you been married? 51 years, I think. 51? Yeah. Oh.

So those were very early marriages you had. Yeah. And then 50, but... But they were all wonderful people. All of them were wonderful people. But aren't you like sort of honest and forthright about the fact that marriages can be open? Well, I lived that way, so I guess that sort of says it all. Right. And... I don't know open. No, I can be very jealous. Are you kidding?

If I'm not in control, it's a no-no. But, I mean, it must have been... But I'm a typical... You're not typical. That is definitely not something you are. You could say normal, yes. You're not typical. It's not typical when... I mean, if you're married 51 years, we're going back to 1973, right?

Okay. So... Listen, when women are, you know... You made Mahogany in 1980? Yeah, 1980, I think it was. And you made Lady Sings the Blues the year before? That was 19... I don't remember. Something like that. 78, 79. Okay. So in that era, I mean, you must have been, like, constantly approached by Three Times a Lady's.

Oh, yeah. Women love me. Right. So, I mean, your wife either has to make peace with that or somehow... She was too busy playing poker. Poker? Yes. Your wife's a big poker player? She's a big poker player, yes. That's her passion? Yeah. Really? She's married to Billy Dee Williams and she's thinking about an inside straight? Yeah. Yeah.

Really? That's your life? Yes. That is fascinating. To this day, she plays poker? No, no, they all stopped doing that years ago. You know, Hank Fonda used to come to my house and play poker with us, with them. Hank Fonda? My God, you're a treasure trove of, like, the first generation of Hollywood stars. Oh, Hank Fonda was a wonderful man. I'll bet. Great, great actor.

Great actor. One of my favorite actors of all time. Even Brando talked about it. And I also spent a little time with Brando. You say that like he tried to fuck you. Brando loved Hank Fonda. Hank Fonda, nuance, subtlety. Right. That was key to... Grapes of Wrath. His greatness. Yeah, Grapes of Wrath. Maybe we're all part of a big soul. Remember that speech? I don't remember it, but it was...

It was Steinbeck, right? Yes, from the Steinbeck book, right? Yeah. But that's the big speech. He did a movie many years ago. I wish I could remember the name of the movie. Twelve Angry Men? No, no, that was a great movie. Unbelievable. But no, he did, this was early in his career. He played a fugitive. And it was, when you think of fugitives, when I think of fugitives today who get killed,

Like the other day, some kid got-- I don't know what happened to that kid. I hope-- did they kill him or did they destroy him? Oh. Some kid in back east in Pennsylvania, I think. Did what? He killed his mother-in-law and killed all of these people. Well, I'm sure many-- And he ended up hijacking some people and some house. Right. And I don't know. I haven't heard any more news about it, but I'm curious to know. But anyway--

I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. Just sitting here talking about nothing and nonsense. I love it. That is the point of Club Random. We do not have an agenda here. We just want to, like, I mean, we. I'm using the royal we. I, like. Listen, I'm having a great time. I am too. And just the idea that, you know, whatever I did right in life,

This, to me, is like one of the ultimate payoffs, that for whatever road led me here where I have enough cachet to

to have you want to come here and talk to me. It's like the fact-- Are you serious? I'm telling you this is-- because when else would this happen in my life? But because we have this podcast, and I can get you-- Do you feel that you had to say that? No, I don't feel I have to say it. Do I strike you as someone who feels he has to say anything? No, no, no, I'm sorry I said that, though. OK, no.

I mean, you just won't accept my premise that you were so important in the formative period of my life. And, you know, I have to understand, like, a lot of what our show business connections are, yes, we do adore talent. But it's emotional. Like, what connects with you emotionally? That's why music matters.

is so important to people's lives. That's why if you-- have you ever had even one hit, you can work for the rest of your life because the people who got laid to that hit-- oh, I know. I'm sorry. I'm being crude again. But the people who got laid to that hit, when they hit 40 and they have money, they're going to want to see it again. They want to go see that band again. It's very clear our love is here to stay. Why? Is that why you lost your virginity to it?

Not for a year, but ever and a day. The radio and the telephone and the movies that we know may just be passing fancies and in time may go. Wow. But oh, my dear, our love is here to stay.

Nicely done. Boy, you know all the lyrics. How romantic. Yeah, I see. What year was that song, would you imagine?

You remember? I don't know. That's probably way back in the '50s. Oh. Yeah, I don't know. I think before that. Is that Cole Porter, maybe? Probably. Somebody like that. I mean, certainly-- Well, I did an album back in 1961. '61? Yeah, I did an album. You were a crooner? I did an album called--

Let's Misbehave with Billy Dee Williams. Let's Misbehave. Ah, see? I was singing, I was being trained to be what they call a chic East Side nightclub singer. But Let's Misbehave is a very telling title. I mean, it's practical. And I was 23 years old at the time. I'm sure you were. And I'm sure a lot of horny housewives were like, yes, this would be misbehaving, wouldn't it?

If I had sexual... Read my book. I am going to. I cannot. Why? Because that's in there? It's all of that. Really? Well, tell me now. Give me a preview. All that madness, all that craziness. I want to hear about these three times a lady is throwing themselves at you. I want to hear what it's like. I've had so many women throw them. I've had... The first time I remember, after I did Lady Sings the Blues...

I was somewhere in Detroit, I think. It was the opening of "Lady Sings the Blues." And a woman approached me and literally fainted. And it was like one of the most amazing experiences I ever had in my life to know that somebody can just look at you and literally fall to the ground. Exactly. This is what I'm talking about.

And I've had that happen to me many, many times. I've had people cry, weep when they met me. I've had people try presenting them wanting me to touch their babies. I mean, if I wanted to be a preacher, I could have made a fortune.

Absolutely. I mean, if I want to. No, I get it. It's so powerful, that connection. It's on a level that's beyond. And a lot of people don't know this, but it's true. I mean, people know it, but they don't know it. Not to try to compete, but.

A couple of weeks ago, I was on the road. I did a show. After the show, I'm in my hotel room. An hour later, a woman is banging and banging on the door. Finally, I let her out. You're crazy. You are so crazy. You are so insane. Bless you. You're wonderful. You're a fantastic, brilliant human being. Oh, thank you. I just, I love to laugh.

And I'll have to make people I like laugh, you know. I mean, life is so short and sometimes brutish and nasty. Well, you have a, you have, my grandmother would look at you and say he's wicked. Wicked, you're right. Yeah. It's in your eyes. It's in your smile. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I want to be a little wicked, you know.

Well, you are. There's just too much conformity, I think, in our country. Well, don't worry about all of that. It doesn't matter. Well, I have to worry a little bit about it because I have to both be who I am and try to... And you've got to talk about it. You've got to show, you've got to do all of this. Yeah, and try to keep my job. Oh, okay. You know, I mean, this is a very treacherous landscape we live in now where people like to try to cancel people. I'm sure you realize this.

Oh, yeah. You see it all the time. I mean, I don't think they could cancel you. But I know there are things in your book. It's too late. Right. It's too late, and you're too iconic. But there are things in your book about your sex life that the current crop of virtue signalers would find problematic, as they call it. Really? Yes. Well, I mean, I'm not sure where they are with group sex.

But some people think it's exploitative or... Well, I mean, every kid experiments. With group sex? Yeah, with sex. Oh, when you're a kid, you just... I was living with one of the biggest madams in New York City at the time. Living with one of the biggest madams? Madams, yes. Why were you living with her? We knew each other when we were kids growing up, and she...

Became a madam? She became a madam, and that's when I found out about the whole, discovered what that whole world was all about. It was a very interesting world.

And I bet you all her three times a ladies said to you, I'll give you this one for free. No, no, no, no. It wasn't even like that. That was when I first discovered the little black book with the names of all the people who were paying to use her services. For her services, yeah. Like who? Mayor John Lindsay? Well, no, there was... Abe Beam?

A famous... Not Ed Koch. No, no, no, no politicians. No politicians? Come on. No politicians, no. Oh, what was his name? He was a famous designer, clothing designer. Calvin Klein. No, not Klein, no. Oh, he was Italian. Yves Saint Laurent. Oh, Dolce & Gabbana. Oh, come on, I can't think of his name. But anyway, I remember when she...

She was, he gave her, I remember she came home at five o'clock in the morning wearing a black diamond mink coat down to the floor. That was her gift, plus whatever else that was given to her. And I thought, my goodness gracious, this is really the way to live. And you never looked back?

Right. I mean, it just-- She ended up going to Italy. She married a count, an Italian count, whatever that means. And she wanted me to go to Italy at that time, but I didn't-- I was on Broadway doing "The Taste of Honey." So I didn't want to, you know-- Remember "Living in Shame," the record?

Living in Shame? Diana Ross and the Supremes? They had two hits in... No, I don't remember that, no. Well, you must remember Love Child. Love Child, yes. Okay, I'm Living in Shame was the follow-up hit to Love Child. Love Child really broke the mold there because up until then, Barry Gordy never wanted the records to be political at all.

And for good reason. Well, I mean, it's true with Marvin Gaye when he did What's Going On. What's Going On. Because I was under contract with Barry at that time. Under contract? Yeah, I had a seven-year contract with Barry Gordy. Because he had a film company? Yeah, because he had a film company. Oh, oh. Oh, right, because he produced those movies, right? Yeah. OK. So I remember when he was really upset about the... Did you see that?

That was in... That's the Supremes. Oh, that's great. That was in one of my... I brought... I had that frame. I had that from when I was a kid. It was in an album. Well, I got to send you one of my pieces so you can hang up. I would love it. Yeah. I mean, it is club random. But...

But yeah, Diana Ross and the Supremes did Love Child, which was a great departure because before then, it was just songs that everyone could relate to because Barry Gordy was already, you know, fighting, obviously. Again, we don't talk about that subject, but you know what. So, like, the songs had to be something that appealed to everyone. So they were just about love because everyone can relate to love no matter what race they are. So...

Love Child was a very, I mean, that's where we get the term Love Child now. A baby born out of wedlock. And it was about something. It was as, I would compare it to Porgy and Bess. Porgy and Bess went on Broadway, oh no, I'm sorry, Show Boat, went on Broadway in 1927.

And until then, all the musicals had been just June, Moon, Love, Dove, you know, very simplistic kind of stuff, or Gilbert and Sullivan. And Show Boat was about something. It was about the you-know-what topic. Mad River, he just keep rolling. Yeah, that was Robeson, right. And also that was Don't Know Why.

There's no sun up in the sky. And do you know that... Stormy weather. Eva Gardner played the character? Richard Belzer used to sing, don't know why, there's lipstick on my fly. Sloppy blowjob. Oh, the deer departed, Richard Belzer. That makes me sad.

Anyway, I would say Love Child was that same kind of thing. It was a departure. Suddenly there was a song about, you know, baby out of wedlock. And then the follow, they were like, oh, okay. And there was a giant hit. You must remember that. Love Child was a giant hit. Yeah, I remember. Okay, I was 12. So just interested in music. The follow-up hit was, I'm living in shame, mama. And, you know, it was about she married some rich guy.

And Mama was still like, you know, I don't know, but she was living in shame. I don't remember all the lyrics, but I know it was not a good situation.

Anyway, you worked with Diana Ross. I mean, she was your co-star in those movies. No, we did two. You know, I opened for her. We have something in common. My first gig, my first big gig was opening for Diana Ross in 1982 at Caesar's Palace. Well, we did two movies together. Yeah, I know you have it better with Diana Ross. I'm not competing on that level. I was just the chimp who went out while the people were getting their seats and

And then the big star came on. It was the opening act? It was the opening act. She saw me on The Tonight Show, did my first Tonight Show. And she was like, oh, I can get him for $2,000 a week. And she did. But she held me over for the second week at $2,500. I will have you know. She was very nice to me. I always liked her.

Oh, we had a good time. We worked very-- we had a very nice relationship. You could see the chemistry on screen. Oh, it was great chemistry. Yes. It's too bad we're not doing a movie even at this particular juncture. You could. Yeah, but-- You know what? Don't crack. We can't say it. You're terrible. And by terrible, you mean wonderful. I know you do. You're wonderful. I love that you're wonderful.

All right, should we go have a Colt .45 at the pool table? Well, I can't do much standing and walking because I'm... Well, you're going to have to leave. You're going to have to do that much. I have to go in that direction? Is that it? Exactly. It's the only way I can get you out of here. But anyway, I just want to thank you so much. Thank you. This was like... I'm just going to say it one more time. You can scoff, but it was the thrill of life because...

You know, you just have meant a lot to me. And I just thought you were like the coolest dude at the time when I needed cool dude, you know, icons to look up to as a young, growing male. Thank you. It works every time. There it is. A lady gave this to me. I'll bet a lady gave you everything.