William Shatner | Club Random w/Bill Maher
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Some people don't get married because they don't like girls at all, and some people don't get married because they like them all a lot. Have you ever had a homosexual experience? No. Why? But it's early. Welcome to Club Random with Bill Maher. Tonight, William Shatner. Hello.

I'm going to get out of this chair. You're not getting anywhere. I'm going to get right in your chair like a ventriloquist dummy. We're going to do an act. Look how strong you are. You've been working out. I don't know what you think this club random is. Well, I'm behind a post. Look at where I am. I'm behind a post and I've got a white light and I'm looking for dancing girls and there's nobody here. No, this is a ventriloquist act. You stick your hand up my ass and then I...

Insult the audience. I'm so flattered you're here. Thank you so much. I can't believe you are at my club random. Is it new? It's new. It is so old, but we basically just made what I've been partying in for 20 years. Have you really? Yeah, when I bought this house, it was owned by a movie star, had video games in it. No interest to me.

But it was like this cool, I mean, you saw that door? Yeah. Well, the whole room is kind of antiqued. It's got a feel. Yeah, well, it feels like cement. But I like that because when you party here, you can't ruin it.

So what do you mean by a party? What happens? I've never been to a Hollywood party. Oh, stop it. No, I'm serious. Stop it. I've never been to a Hollywood party. Is this a Hollywood party? When you were putting your hand up my ass, that was a Hollywood party. Well, that was comfortable.

But what happens here? What do you mean, what happens? What happens here when I'm not here? This. Talking to people. Yeah? I mean, are you asking me have I ever had sex in this room? Yes. Of course, it's a room. But, wait, you have been to a Hollywood party. Bill. How could you have avoided that? Bill, if somebody said to me...

I bet there's a lot of drugs in Hollywood. I would say, no, there's not. Well... I've seen only... That's different than never going to a party. I agree. If someone said to me, where do you get cocaine? I would say, I don't know. It's not 1988. I don't know anymore. How about if somebody said, come to the opening of...

this show. I'm gonna -- There's gonna be an opening of this show. And so I'm inviting a lot of people. And I would go to that thing? I wouldn't know anybody there. And the reason for this is because you're... I don't know. ...too good for everybody? I don't think that's the answer.

Well, not... Okay. Where would you rather be? Too intellectual for the Hollywood crowd. No, because I think that's what it is. You think I'm too intellectual? I do. Well, I don't even know the crowd to be superior to. I mean, you've been on the scene for around 40 years. I feel like it's impossible not to...

know, kind of get a knowing of who you are. And you're not shy about doing something like this, where we see you as you. No, I love it. Right. It's a challenge. I feel like I know you. Well, and me, you, but I don't know you well enough. Right, well, that's what this is for. What are you looking for? Liquor, as always. I know you well enough to think that that's my suspicion, because...

You know, Truman Capote famously said, all actors are dumb, which is generally true. But the ones like you who are not dumb, you don't fit in with the crowd. You don't. I don't fit in with the crowd either. Neither one of us... But it's your politics that doesn't fit in with the crowd. Well, my politics fits in with people who are independent thinkers. Or is there a...

Is there a ruling for independent thinkers? I'm an independent thinker, so you have a ruling. I don't know. But what I mean is people you know are not the filmmakers and the actors that preen themselves. You ride with an intellectual, politically alert group of people. Well, you should have seen me Friday night. You wouldn't say that. But look...

I like the full range. You know, I like to party here with anybody. That's really the provenance of this podcast was the idea that people kept saying to me, you know...

We see this other side of you. You know, we see you all the time. You're out, you're partying, you're this kind of thing. Why don't you put it on film? Yes, because I can't be that guy on real time because, you know, there's very serious people there. I hope I'm funny, but it's a kind of a different level than this. To me, there's no greater pleasure than shooting the shit with somebody I like, really, in the whole world. And that's what I do.

Really? Yeah. Who do you do it with? You had one of the guys who works for you here. I was a little early, so I sat in the chair, and his name escapes me now. Good-looking guy. He's been with you a long time. And we were talking about...

making electricity and small things that do that. And I got him talking. He was talking in the background. He's in Jersey, and he had a shop and his thing, and he met, and he knew you, and he went with you. And it was a fascinating interview.

Right. If that would have been the party, you know, and I signed to leave, I would have said to whoever I was with, boy, I just met an interesting guy. I think you should become a regular at Club Random because I think I can solve this problem. Come here. We'd love to have you, and I think you'll have a good time. You know, it's like my mother at the end, all her problems could have been solved if she just smoked pot. She was underweight, didn't laugh enough.

There was even a book called, like, The Grandmother's Guide to Smoking Pot. I sent her, and, you know, she was- Why did you feed it to her? Here, Bob. Grandma. Take a little lick. It looks like ice cream. Not my grandmother. But she was an old lady who was a widow, who was, yes, bored, bored, not laughing enough, and weighed 90 pounds and needed to get the munchies. And-

If she could just, you know, done that. So I think it's very much... So, but why didn't she? I'm saying you should come to Club Ritz. Why didn't she? I used to smoke grass fairly often. You can just smoke grass, but just come to Club Ritz. Yes, I would love to. If that's an invitation, I accept. But talking about grass, I kind of fell out of it because it does make you think... It does give you the munchies, and I don't need the munchies because I'm a foodie. It does make you...

I don't know if that's creatively, certainly originally. I mean, you're going over stuff that you haven't thought of. You are an amazing specimen because I know your age. And you look like you could play the beefy 60-year-old... I hate that first word. Well, I think alive is a great word at 90.

You know, like, beefy, that's not fat. It just means you could play that, you know, Charles Durning guy. Charles Durning? Oh, God, it's getting worse. But at 60! I'm saying you could play the part of a 60-year-old. Yeah, but why couldn't I be like a thin, slim 60? You could play Charles Durning. Well, Bill, that part's up to you. Yeah. That I...

But I'm just saying, you look great. I mean, you're a fucking force of nature. And to me, this is very important, because I'm 66, which is not certainly considered... It's four years away from 70. I know. Have you thought of that? No, Bill. You're the first one to have brought up the idea. But does it occur to you all the time, or is it just... All the time. Yeah.

All the fucking time. And I remember an interview you did in some magazine, like, I don't know what, but it was when you, because I remember the line you said was, maybe you were on, like, Boston... Legal? Yeah.

I'm trying to help you, man. I just, I don't want you floundering. This is a good show, and you floundering is not a good image. Well, again, hardly a show, but Boston Legal, okay. So, and you said, and it was like Maxim, one of those were like a one-page thing with an iconic person, and you were like, 75. He said, and you said, like, if this is what 75 feels like,

i i can't i don't know what to do yeah but but then uh so 75 is kind of young you know you're you're nine years old no you were saying you you didn't feel it at all no well i understand so so now uh progress that to 15 years 16 years later and the prevalent emotion is am i dying you're not close i mean again no no the feeling like oh jesus i'm tired i've been you know like i'm full i don't want to eat anymore

Am I dying? That thing occurs to me all the time. But you're not very wrinkled. You're like, your face is alive. You know, people just, you either look, when you see somebody, you immediately take in information that you don't even consciously know. But you just look at a person. When you get stoned, you realize you've taken it in. Yeah.

And you go, this person is either attractive. You know, they say, come on. Or they're dying. Their head is dead. Or they just don't look quite right. You can't put your finger on it, but they're kind of great. You look robust. You know, you're going to hate the words I choose. I believe the words you choose. Henry VIII. You know, these are good.

You know, he was a very... Skinny little fart. He was a very powerful guy, but he was like hail and ruddy. It looked healthy. You looked healthy. No, I'm healthy. I am. I just got off a horse. This morning, I spent time on a new horse. You got back from space, I thought. Yeah, well, I did that, too. I have to... Oh, my God. I have to ask you about that, but I just want to say one more thing about the aging thing. It's funny you ask me that about, like, you think about it every day. Yeah. Did you at that age...

far younger, like, you know. Yeah. 25, 25, and you're 30. Right. You know this thing about passages, right? So you get to 30, and you're thinking, okay, it's good. Now's the time. You're supposed to be a passage where you begin to realize your dreams of 20.

And if you're not realizing your dreams of 20, are you getting dispirited? Maybe I should change what I'm doing. I'm guessing since you, what were you, 36 when Star Trek hit, something like that? See, I was almost the exact same age when I got politically incorrect. The sign is right behind you. I'm so old I can't turn. Yeah. And, like...

For me, I don't know if you've reviewed, but like 20s, you're not quite expected to have made it yet. But when you peak into your 30s and you still haven't, that to me was the roughest time. See, and that for an actor. The same to you? Well, you're in even a more ephemeral position. You're going to go up and you're going to stand in front of an audience. I worship two things.

I worship a great voice, a great singing voice, because it's just like magical. And stand-up comics. Stand-up comics are...

are stripped naked bare. When that routine is there, there are no extra words. There's no extra motion. Emotion gets in the way of the laugh. You know exactly where you have to be and what you have to do. It's stripped bare. It's pure. A great stand-up comic is pure. Well, listen, I just got back from Miami. I taped my 12th stand-up special for HBO. It's on April 15th. I really hope you watch it because I think it'll...

Have that gentleman who I talk to remind me. I will remind you because I'm going to get your number. You've already had your hand up my ass. And you need a little help. Speaking of that, this is what I was going to say. Have you tried the hemorrhoid cream? No, but I was just going to say, like, the worst thing about, you said, like, you think about it all the time because there are things that make you think of it. Like, there are just things when you're older that you never used to do. Okay, you want to know what makes me think of it?

right here, getting out of this fucking chair. The chair is so deep that to get out of it is a real effort. And it's an example of how stiff your bones get and your muscles get. So I didn't want to get out to show how stiff I was. First of all, I threw myself on you and sat on you. So you couldn't have gotten up if you wanted to. No, but... That's not usually how I agreed to get up. But then you actually stretched a couple of muscles by sitting on me.

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Fucking nailed it. I recently had the experience of having to send my shit away in the mail. Have you done this? No. You've never sent your shit away? You never knew I was going to get a hold of your shit.

No, but I mean, it's that kind of thing that you didn't used to do. Right. That makes you, it fucks with your head. Because they've discovered that your bacteria of your whole gut is coming out of your shit. Well, because they need to check you. Yes. Or you have to check. So I'm sending my shit away in the mail. All right, so it exposes the question. You tell me you've never done that. You've never. Come on. You should. No, well, you scoop it up and you put it in a little plastic thing. You send it away in the mail. I carry it.

I don't want to. Like a doggy bag. I always think that's the worst job in the world is some poor schmuck all day opens up boxes. Oh, look, it's short. And you're an example. How many times have you peed into a urine thing? I want to put a diamond in one time just so they can open up the box and go, oh, fuck. This time it's a diamond. It's either been cooked inside your body or you've swallowed your wife's.

Stranger shit. And it would be such a morale booster around the office because they would think, oh, well, once in a while he could see a diamond. We've got to follow him around. And they're like, this is a fucking diamond. That would be very funny. You know Ava Gardner was... Speaking of boxes of shit. You know the story of Ava Gardner? This great beauty. No, but still hot. She used to shit. Still hot, right?

Well... Will you see pictures of her or in a movie? Oh, my God. Yeah, but most of the actresses in that era are not bonerific. She is. She was... The rumor was, at least I read about it, she got to be an alcoholic. I mean, she was really in her cups. She married to Sinatra. Wouldn't you?

I don't know. All I know is the rumor was every so often when she needed to, she'd squat down in a lobby hotel and pass a diamond. What? Oh, man. You had me going with that. But just the picture of Ava Gardner...

squatting and crapping, it's just like, it's like overboard. Like, wow. Right. Wouldn't you like to see that? You know what? I wish I was the kind of guy who could say, you know what? I'd still fuck her if she was shitting on my dick. But I'm not that guy. I mean, as hot as she was, I'm sorry. Shit turns me on. You don't know that. Well, let's... No. I mean, period. I'll fuck you on your period. But nothing with shit. Yeah.

Not on my period. And not food. People who involve food with sex are doing it wrong. I don't get that. I never got that. Never got that. You never used any sort of popsicle? Food? Popsicles? Well, I mean, I lick wet whipped cream, anything. Edible panties. No. Never. What's an edible panty made of? How edible is a panty? Well, that's a very good question.

Very good question. That's why you have to send your shit out, because you have too much. My dog passes rubber gloves. He eats rubber gloves. So I go, and out pops a rubber glove. So here you are. Where does he get the glove? He picks up a glove from somebody. You've got to be careful. Well, I...

He's a big Doberman. I don't know how to deal with that. Well, by not leaving gloves around. I don't. I'm going to have to call PETA on you. Drop a glove. Are you an animal lover, Bill? Say again? Are you an animal lover? Yeah. You're not. I'm a PETA board member since the 90s.

PETER BORG. Peter, the people for the ethical treatment of animals. Oh, of course. Yes. People who have made incredible strides. Well, you being a Peter Borg makes you a Peter a little overboard. It is not overboard. So you're not an animal lover? No. Well, I'm just asking. I worship animals. Oh. Well, you ride horses. Dogs. You ride dogs.

Again, I'm citing you for several violations here. No, but that's my life is dogs and horses. But when you get into the question that they are into, for example, of the Mustangs in the Southwest, the question of what do you do with animals that are overgrazing is a really profound one. What do you mean overgrazing?

The grazing of the natural parks is beef, herds of whatever's there, antelope, elk, whatever. Everybody's competing for the food, the grass. And along comes the mustangs, and they need their share of the grass, too, and everybody starves.

So what are you saying? It would be better if we captured the horses and domesticated them? Well, they do that a lot, but I'm sure a lot of them aren't domesticated. They catch a lot. I mean, people always say, like, you know, my horse, he loves it. I'm like, is your horse Mr. Ed? How the fuck do you know if your horse loves it? I mean, I know people feel a lot of kinship with the horse. I understand. But it is something that you could just be...

you know, intimating because you want to believe that the horse is enjoying you riding. Yes. Yes, you have to discipline a horse into a skill. The skill I'm into around here is reining, sliding horses, moving, doing a 180-degree turn, running down the full length of it, sliding down, turning around. I compete in all that. Yeah. I have a horse show. That doesn't sound like something the horse would enjoy. And yet.

The horse has a skill that's been trained into it, much like any other athletic being. And you say, hit that ball, hit that ball, hit that ball. The guy says, this is no fun. Come on. Why couldn't, what's his face, hit a free throw? Why couldn't he hit a free throw? You're talking about like Shaq? Yeah, why couldn't Shaq hit a free throw? Mental. When he took instruction, he began to hit it.

You train the horse, he goes, I slid. Oh, shit, I slid. You're saying he works for his money. He works for his money. Let me ask you this. Do you, most people would say, I mean, most people like some animals, certainly pets, but they would say, well, they enhance my life with people. I don't think that at all. I'm asking, yeah. So, you know, you think they... No, you know how I had my hand up your ass just now.

Did that feel good or did that not feel good? Well, I hate to admit it. No, don't hate to admit it. Admit it with enthusiasm. I loved it. And two fingers, Shatner. But, you know, it is William Shatner doing it. Okay, so maybe the dog is doing the same thing. Hey, he's my master. He's teaching me to sit down when I say sit. But, Bill, what I was actually asking is, like, do...

People would say enhances my life. Whereas, like, I only live with dogs. You have dogs here? Of course. I've always had two dogs. And that's the perfect number, by the way. It is the perfect number. They have their own. They have themselves. And they have enough for you. Right. And when you're not there, they have a buddy. Yeah. It's fantastic. It works out. Okay. But, like, to me, they really replace having a person. I think they're better, you know, because... That's sad. That's sad.

I thought you were going to say you're the same way. No, no, well. You're not the same way. Only when I haven't had. But you're not married. Yes. Right now? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know. I'm living with my wife. Uh.

That's a whole other subject. That's what people normally do when they live with their wife. That's a whole other subject. You say it like it's a novel. I'm living with my wife. Wow! Some people, my wife's over there and I'm over here. Long-term marriages can evolve that way sometimes.

I never got the marriage thing, but, you know... Why didn't you get married? Because it's stupid. I mean, because it's fucking stupid. I mean, who's happy with it? Everyone gets divorced. There's a book out now. Have you seen this? It's been reviewed everywhere. It's a book where this woman shits on her husband for 250 pages. The slug line I read in the excerpt was, do I hate my husband? Oh, yeah, sure. But...

They stay married. Why? Why? Exactly. Because it's all about how tedious and awful marriage is. And it's like, but again, there's divine in the title. And I'm like, where is the divine here? Where's that part? The divine. She never quite gets to that. See, but read through that. What did she say? She's an asshole. And I don't like him. But I'm still with him. And she's still with him in the same reason people have pets.

Because there's continuity. And there's this... Now that's sad.

That's sad. Welcome. And that's codependency, right? I mean, she talks about this guy. She, everything about him is like super grating, which I understand when you're, but like, you know, he's always clearing his throat. So my phlegmy husband, you know, really, she goes into such detail. She compares him to a pile of laundry at one point. Oh my God. In the morning before he had his coffee, he's smelly, inert, and barely sentient. Uh,

You know, it's just what, he's a pussy. Like when he has a little ache or pain, you never hear the end of it. And then, and other times I, I remember that handsome professor and still think I'm married to him. It's like, okay, but like, is it worth waiting through all this to get to that one of your moments where you have a spark? How long has she been married? It sounds like 15 years. They have like two. 15. Something like that. She's still comparatively young.

Yes, I would say from the picture, I would say 40s. So does she feel, do you think in the book, does she feel that she could do better if she went out there? That's what I'm saying. What is the point of this? She goes on and on and on about the things that I've, when you ask me that question, why didn't you ever get married? Read this book. Well, theoretically. If you read this, what everyone says, of course.

Of course. Why would anyone? How long have you lived with somebody in your life? Okay. I lived with someone once for, oh, God, that was a long time ago, like, oh, I don't know, a year. And then another year. And that was it?

Yes, I think twice I lived with someone for a year. It's not my thing. And then what? A week, a day, a month? And then it ended. But now, a week, a day, a month? What do you mean? Living with or... I'm not living with anyone. I'm living with Chico and Chula. Okay, so nobody is in your bed at night, so you wake up beside them in the morning? I didn't say that. Well, so is that one night or ten nights? Oh, Mom...

No, tell me. Don't get me, Mom. What is the continuity in your life other than going on stage and being funny? Let's say that's the continuity in my life. That's the continuity that I need. I mean, you know, I've always been married to my career. I mean, any woman would always have to be a mistress to that. I mean, that's just the way it is. I think I was hurt when I was...

in high school, dumped by my first high school girlfriend. And I think at that moment, something in me went, don't ever put your eggs in that basket for happiness. Make career the thing that... Okay, go a little earlier. Your mom was alone. Your dad had died. Well, yeah, my mother was a widow for 15 years. For 15 years? Yeah. How long had she been married? 41. So you left really early. You left home really early. Yeah.

Why do you say that? I left home the normal time to go to college. 20, yeah. 18. 18. Yeah. You were 18 and left home. Yeah. Did you ever go back? No. See? I mean, to visit. Yeah, but you said, I'm now. You earned your money. I had a lot of pride. I mean, starting out as a comic, you make no money, so I sold pot. I literally still had the money I had from cutting lawns and shoveling driveways as a kid that I saved. You know, I had...

I was developing a movie, and one of the big scenes was the comics agent and the father of a girl he loved. There was a party, and in the party were all the comics. There were a lot of comics. So the camera passing by, we'd catch...

laugh lines of some kind. Take my wife, please, and then you go on. So I interviewed a lot of comics. Really? Yeah. How old were you? How old am I? At the time. Now, how old were you at this moment? It was about 15 years ago. Okay.

Oh, so recently? Yeah, very recently. And I still have the screenplay. It's a wonderful screenplay. And so the camera's blasting my comics. So I interviewed a lot of young comics. And I got a sense of what you were going through, did when you were a kid. Yeah. And the underground that, I don't know whether it still exists, but that underground...

comedy store where you'd get a few hundred dollars, a hundred dollars, and they'd come in their car and they'd sleep in their car and they'd drive to the next gig. We made three. We got cab fare. We took a hundred dollars. No kidding. Yes. And it wasn't underground, but it was the showcase clubs. Yes, that's where I started. That's where every comic started in the last 40 years. I mean, the Catskills was...

Well, the Catskills was something else. Yes, I'm saying that was that era. In the 60s, late 60s, it moved. Well, the Improv in New York was the first. That was 1962, 60 years ago. And that was the first showcase club. That took over from the Catskills as the place where a young comic would be bad, as they said. And we all were. I started in like 79, 80. Okay,

That was a big, you know, it would become a big thing by then. There was too many clubs. The underground, you mean? It wasn't the underground. There were very... Oh, there were the... There were showcase clubs where you get $3 and the club owner makes a fortune because he was giving you stage time. And you needed that. You needed a place where you could not be great. So that was the deal. You got no money. Okay, so tell me, because...

I have on occasion been on stage where it's failing and it's like the end of the world. With comedy? Yeah. You mean like a joke that doesn't land in a script? Right, but it goes on. I mean, you would go on. It's not working for a length of time. It isn't one joke. It's like, oh. Like a play.

Well, like a play. But in your case, the set isn't working. Nobody's laughing because of something. Either your material is bad or you're... But that, I mean, yes, that is the nightmare that is your first five years in this business. That's what I'm talking about. But after that... How do you survive that? If you do... It's like war. If you survive the barrage, you know...

Yes, you're good to go at a certain point. How do you survive? Get off the stage. God, you smell. That's terrible. Get him out of here. Or just when you just feel that they hate you.

Just, you know, you feel it. It's not as heckling, just it's silence. Yeah. And it's contempt or pity. Pity. When you feel people pity you. Those are the kind ones. And also I made it worse because, you know, I would lash back out at them sometimes. You were angry.

Yes. Well, you're angry. Okay, I've come to the, what were you angry about? You're angry that the joke is a gift that you are giving the audience. Right, right. And they don't get it. Right. So you're like, I gave you this beautiful gift and you fucking morons flew right over your head, you fucking assholes. You don't say. Fuck you. Okay. That's what you really want to say. And unfortunately, when I was young, I said exactly that.

I wish I could have couched this. That's a startle. So how do you survive that? I mean, that's what survival of the fittest means. You know, you have what it takes to take the fucking blows and do it your way. But of course, what was happening is your material wasn't good enough. It wasn't your delivery. It wasn't them. It wasn't funny. Correct. It was both. Sometimes the audience was... No, no. You can't blame the audience.

Yes, you can. No, you can't. Well, I can. And I do. Because it's easier. No, no. Because instead of blaming yourself. No, because some audiences are good and some audiences are bad. Just the way some people are stupid and some people are smart. That isn't so. But, but, but, but, wait a minute. Let me get to my point. If they don't laugh, it's not them. It's your joke. It's both, Bill.

Okay, we'll agree to disagree, but I'm telling you, as a comedian of 40 years, I think most comics would say the same thing. There are audiences where, no, I'm sorry, it is them. Because we've done the same joke a hundred times. That's right, it's universal. And other audiences. So something happened. But why do the audiences, a hundred audiences found it funny and this one audience was like this? Maybe we're talking about two different stages. The stage that we're talking about, the period of time we're talking

about is like that five-year conditioning time. Yes.

Yes, a lot of the reason why you are not well received is because you don't deserve to be. Because yes, your audience, your material is juvenile. You're just starting out. You're trying to just find something to get that oxygen of laughter on stage every 15 seconds. And you do a lot of stupid things and say a lot of bad jokes. But at a certain point, I'm telling you, there is such a thing as a bad audience. When does it evolve? When does the...

A lot of the comics I talked to, I said, how did you know I wanted to be a comic? Well, I could make my high school friends laugh at a party, and I would tell them funny things, and they would laugh. Hey, I could be a comic. That's generally the story. Is that not your story? Well, I knew I wanted to be a comedian when I was, I would say, less than 10 years old. Were you making people laugh at nine? I was. Like family parties. Yes. Like I would... And...

I do think back at this one teacher I had, this English teacher. Now I think back, he was super gay. And I just, I was a kid. I didn't understand. Did he have his hand up your ass? Not in the way you did, Bill. But he was good. But he picked me to like be, there was a talent show senior year in high school. And he said, you know, you should emcee that.

And the fact that somebody, somebody in this world, like without me ever saying it to anybody else, recognized it and said, you should do that, I think was a big boost because they're like, okay, maybe I'm not crazy and it's not just in my mind. This teacher who I have no idea is gay, but later in life, we'll realize. Did you have those thoughts? Because I didn't have those thoughts.

I didn't, when I was good in a play, I didn't think, oh, that's a, I don't know. I just, I was destined to do, to be an actor. I never thought of doing anything else. Right. There you go. You? No, I'm saying I never did either. You just went walking along and you made a joke and then made two. You know, it's something, and also what makes an actor special

So good is just like there's something we can't quantify, describe. We just like to watch you on the screen. We do. I mean, look at your career. You never, ever stopped working. You went from one series to the next movies. People just, wherever, they just, some people just have that factor. I know. We just want to be around you. That's fantastic. But...

For you. It's fantastic for you. Some other schmuck who didn't get a job acting. When did you become political? What was his name? My father was a newsman.

My father was radio news, so it was always in my house. So he was on radio? Yes. No, well, back in the days when every radio station had news at the top of the hour. Yeah, yeah. And he was one of the, there was just staff announcers, you know, you remember this, Eric. Yeah, of course. And I remember once a year, like, we'd go into Daddy's office and...

and I'd meet all the other announcers, and they would scare the shit out of me because they had these booming... Well, they had the voice. Hello, young man, I'm Bob B. Cronin. How are you? I'm Shatner. Hello, young man, I'm... Daddy. But that was my... That was, you know, so I grew up steeped in it because, you know, he was a news guy, and so my parents... And my parents were hip, you know, liberal... But it's one thing to be an anchor or to read the news, another to make...

editorial comment that is almost a diatribe. I definitely knew what their politics were. They were, you know, liberal Democrats.

especially for the time we lived in, they were outliers to most people, I think. They weren't fucking the weathermen, but they were concerned about the liberal, the old school liberal values that I think I still hold, and I feel like came directly through them to me. But you more don't suffer fools. No. They could have a different opinion of whether there should be more or less taxes, but it's the fools that you don't abide by.

No, I hate fools. Well, who has, especially, Bill, when we get older, we get, let's be honest, less patient, especially with stupidity and fools and people who waste our time. Because we could be reading. If you're not interesting, I don't mean you in particular, but, like, I can be reading and having a good time, you know, right? Do you read a lot at home at all? Oh, no, I hate reading. I watch TV. Of course.

I mean, reading. Are you serious? You mean slow TVs? Books? Okay. So, time to read an ad. If you are like me and care about what goes on in your body, I...

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When you went up into space, did you like bring a book just in case there was like a delay? There was a delay. I must tell you, I hate to be like me. Now I have to like, oh God, I can't believe I'm saying this. Because I try to not, I mean, as you can see by this, this is not the way you're normally interviewed by a person.

But I have to say, I have to ask one question that is like the same question that a fucking twink on the local news or anyone would ask you, but once in a while they stumble upon something that I also would find I have to ask. It's so cliche, but I am curious. Did that actually change you when you go up and... It did. And don't fucking bullshit me. No, I won't. Okay. The reason what I did inadvertently...

against everything that I thought because I was on we went to Blue Origin a year before it was even thought of Jason Ehrlich who's a friend of ours Jason said you know you should go up in that Blue Origin thing I don't want to go up there oh Bezos didn't ask you himself not originally

So we went up and sold, you know, with Shatner up there, okay, come up to Seattle and talk to us about it. So Jason and I went up to Seattle, went into the lobby, and in the lobby is all Star Trek.

It's the ship, the original ship is under a glass dome and there was Jeff. And how do you do? Jeff Bezos, you know. He's a cool guy. I love him. He's a really cool guy. I was able to interview him very much like we're doing now. Right. And get stories from him. He gets down. I mean, he's not a crazy man, but like...

He's not stuffy. No. He listens to you. Yeah. Like some people of that level, like you don't feel like you're ever really connected. Exactly. He's like looking at you. He's laughing. Yeah. If you say something good, he's like, oh, I got to remember that and write it on my phone. You know, he's thrilled with life. He fucking loves his girl. Yeah. And the girl loves him. Yes. They seem to be very much in love. I mean, it's nice to be around people like that who are happy. Yeah.

I mean, if you couldn't be happy with everything he has, then you're just an asshole. Well, I don't know about that. Well, come on. If you have everything... No, man, that isn't happiness. No, but I'm saying... Happiness is this. This is happiness. Right. No, but you're sitting in your chair. Right. You're going to smoke a doobie. Oh, no. No, it's going to be great. This is a clove cigarette. Bullshit. Oh, Bill, please.

Well, I'm well-known... Is it against the law? I'm a well-known clove cigarette smoker. Right. You really have not been following... It's more like a clove and hoof cigarette. Following my career, as closely as I would like to have... Anyway, whatever it is, you're having a good time. This is happiness. You're right. I said that before. You and I are communicating. I love it. A long time. I've admired you for so long. And I you. And here we are talking. Exactly. I got tea. You got a clove cigarette. I've got...

1942, that's what helps me relax. 1942 what? It's liquor. What? Bourbon? You don't know what 1942 is? What, have you never been to a party? That's why I've never been to a party. Oh, you know, speaking of Star Trek, I've got to tell you, there's a guy in the Biden administration, I think his name is, I'll forget it, I'll fuck up his name because I'm smoking a closed cigarette, but...

He is very learned. He's got two degrees, nuclear physics, I think. He is in the energy department in charge of nuclear waste, disposing our nuclear waste. I'd love to talk to him. Let me finish. No, it sounds like a great- Maybe I shouldn't talk to him. Just let me tell you who he is. Okay. Okay. So he was also an advisor in the Trump administration.

but he was not in the administration. Now Biden is bringing him into the administration. He is an out transgender. He goes by they. There are many pictures of him in a dress, I mean a full-on dress. And he does something with his partner called pup play, something with animal suits. And also, this is his quote, he said, also part of their pup play, like puppy. Like scrambling around like puppies? I...

Bill, you could put your hand up here at my ass, but you cannot ask me about puffing. Where does he get the energy? I don't, I don't, but wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

Ties his partner up. He said this as a table and eats dinner off him while he's dinner off him. Ties his partner up as a table and eats dinner off him while they watch Star Trek. I am not making you could Google it.

And he's high up in the department. Well, he's the person who's in charge of disposing of nuclear waste. So he'd be incredibly interesting to talk about what's happening in Ukraine. Yes. No, he's MIT. He's a brilliant guy who's completely qualified. Have you ever wondered what they get off on that? I'm not saying he's not qualified for the job. He is. I'm saying he eats dinner off his board.

partner while they watch Star Trek. But that's humiliating, right? That's humiliation. There's some, why is that a kink for people is my question. Right. How do you love somebody you want to humiliate? That's my question. People are always doing things which, like to us, which I count us as the sane, are counterintuitive. Like how, I mean, you know, you know the old joke about the sadists and the masochists? They're in bed together.

And the masochist says, hurt me. And the sadist says, no. Right. See, that was, you brought me back to 1980. Where the audience didn't laugh? It just was. No, but I was ahead. Death. In that instant, I guessed what he was going to say. Death. Yeah. See, that's what I said at the beginning of this. You're too smart for the Hollywood crowd. You know the joke before they say it, so you're not going to. Oh, that was like, the last person I told that to, I had to explain it.

That's what I mean. All types come here to Club Rectifil. Promise me you'll hold my hand when I come. That's a remarkable thing. I've often wondered about what we think of as strange behavior, how it's

How it satisfies. What is the satisfaction? Oh, the kinks that people have. There are men with small penises, God pity them, who their kink is...

is to have the woman, like, make fun of it. I guess it's making the best of a bad situation because you got a small dick. I mean, what, are you going to pretend it's a big dick? No, you're going to... But that's... They want the woman to, like, just make fun of your tiny cock, your little button cock. That's a thing. It's a puzzle. The human behavior like that puzzles me. No. Yeah.

Of course I can't relate to that at all. No, but your behavior of not having a permanent or semi-permanent relationship goes against

I've had serious relationships. Yeah, but for as most a year, right? No, that's as most lived with someone. I've had relationships that were, you know, three, five years. Where you went out with them, where you were with them... Absolutely exclusively. Yes, I was never a cheater, because a cheater is a liar, and I'm not a liar. I have many flaws, but I'm not a liar. So how lost are people generally by the time they... You've got, like, four more years...

Before I'm 70, right? We've established that bill. By the time you're 70. You'll be talking about the bill. I know. And you'll be 94. So you're always going to be ahead of me. That's right. You're talking about it like I'm going to be catching up to you, but it's never going to happen. Obviously, when you get to, I'm officially a senior citizen, as are you.

ageism becomes, at least it has for me, become an issue and something I've certainly talked a lot about on my show as an issue. Last sort of prejudice that you are allowed to have in this country is ageism. We are a country I think very unique about this. Other countries in the world, most countries- MICHAEL STOLER: Explain what you mean. I don't quite understand. RONALD KUBY: Well other countries venerate old people for good reason because we understand as the trade off that you were just sort of alluding to.

You're beautiful when you're young, you're passionate at the beginning of the relationship and then it switches out. Now that passion one you can choose not to indulge in or do, but

the one about aging, you can't choose. That's going to happen. You're going to be less beautiful. And unless you're a complete fucking nincompoop, you're going to be more wise as you get older. And that's why older people, again, are venerated in most countries in the world. You know, do you feel wiser being... Of course. Don't you? No. Oh, stop it. You're not wiser than you were when you were 36? I don't know. I don't know anything. I don't know.

Oh, stop. If somebody asked me for advice, I would say, I don't know what to do. I don't know. I can't give you advice because I don't know. What I would do is not what you would do. Okay, I'm going to give you some advice. You need to go to a psychiatrist because if you think you've never been to a party or that you are not wise and don't have advice to give, I think you're blocking things out. No, it's not that. It's that realizing that nobody knows anything. Well,

Relatively, yes. No, absolutely yes. Relatively a little bit. Absolutely nobody knows anything. Okay, do you know not to put your hand on a hot stove? Then you learn something, and that is repeated throughout life. Yeah, but what about that guy who said, hurt me, and the guy who said no? He would enjoy putting his hand on the stove, and he might say to you, you know, I enjoy putting my hand on the stove. Should I?

And you would say, that's ridiculous. But he says, but I enjoy it. How do you know what's better for him or her? Oh, that is such a hippie. Is that obtuse? It's not obtuse. It's just like so hippie dippy. I know lots of shit. And by the way, lots of people do solicit me for advice and I'm happy to give it. But what a responsibility that is. I know.

What is the, what is the... Significant example. This woman I know, mid-twenties, she said to me, I ran away from home when I was 18.

I said, you can't run away from home when you're 18 because your ass is supposed to be out of the house when you're 18. But what if the wings aren't strong enough? Well, they should be by 18. Well, should be. Who should? Everybody. Who said should? Raise your child. See? See? You're going by raise your child, should. And there's no should in raising. How do you know you've never raised a child? Where'd you get this shit? Canada? Vancouver's.

Is this like a Canadian way of looking at things? I mean, I know I see. Look at this. I'm finding out so much about you. I'm going to tell you, as I say it, I realize I don't know what I'm talking about. I was going to say. Yes. You may be right. I may be right.

I was so curious about you. I wanted to know more about you and your youth. What a great beginning we've had. Oh, lovely. What an exploration. Isn't it amazing to sort of know somebody? I mean, I remember you doing my old show at the Playboy Mansion. Do you remember that? I believe I do. It was an ill-guided concept to like, you know what it was? Remember back in the day when TV had sweeps month?

Yeah. You don't have Sweet's Month anymore? Of course I don't think so because, like, who watches TV? It's all in streaming and, you know, everything else. So, but, like, the month of February, May, and November is when they would take the ratings. Right. So they would, like, pump up every show with, you know, special episodes. Yeah.

So we had to like do something special on those months or at least once a year. And so we go to the play. We'll shoot at the Playboy Mansion for a week.

By the way, Hef... What? Really? He died at just the right time because he would have been me too real bad these days. Even at death they're coming after him. They're coming after him now. Right. Every article you read. He went like right before 2017. Right like the one the Weinstein thing. He had some fucking timing. Did you know Kevin Burns...

Big, heavy-set guy, kind of a beefy guy. He was about three or four. Kevin, you couldn't have missed him. Who was Kevin Burns? Kevin Burns was the producer of the show and became very friendly. Of what show? Of Midnight Thing at the Playboy. Playboy after dark? After dark. The old one? Yeah. Oh, wow. And he'd go to the movies all the time. Did you do any of that? Do what? Go...

Focus on the flame. Look at the flame. Go to those parties at the Playboy. The Playboy? Oh, yes. Well, he was there a lot. I was there a lot. I mean, people thought I lived there, which was preposterous. But they had five big parties a year. They had the Midsummer Night's Dream party in the summer that was famous, the lingerie. Right, and the cave. Remember the cave and the pool? The cave. You mean the grotto? The grotto, yeah.

I thought you were never at a party. How do you know about the cave? Well, because I was there doing things. I was there working. Working? Yeah, well, you know, I was an actor and I wasn't there at a party. What scene was that? The aliens landed in the grotto? It was work. T.J. Hooker busted up. Whenever I was in my moments of being single, I never ended up there. And I don't know why. Those girls...

The girl, the playboy bunny. Well, not bunnies. Bunnies are different. Bunnies worked in the clubs. Okay, the playboy girls. Playmates is the word you're looking for.

Boy, I got to get you a Canadian to party dictionary because you are lacking. Did you go to the play? Okay, so I said there was five big parties a year. There was a Halloween party. He'd spend like a million dollars on like all sorts of scary shit and houses. And then there was a New Year's Eve party. Did any puppies go there? Any guys resting puppies? No, it was just a whole heterosexual fest. And, uh...

I would go to all the parties. You know, there would be invitations and you'd go. Other than that, I would live at the Playboy Mansion. Well, you know, back in all, you're lying on the floor with various fluids coming out of various offices. Yeah, it's Caligula-like stuff. Yeah, really? Well, yeah. But you sound like you've always been a guy who wanted a monogamous, serious relationship. Am I wrong?

No, I'm a guy who wanted to go to a Playboy party and had a monogamous... What about that green chick you kissed? Tell me you didn't get some of that when filming ended for the day. That stuff rubbed off. Do you remember what time of the day you shot that scene? Because I know actors who say, it was like 8 in the morning and her tongue was in my mouth. No.

No, I don't remember that. But there have been some beautiful women over the years. And yet, even then, long before the Me Too thing, there's something that's causing my eyes to cross. There is a spider like right here. Do you see it? There's something floating. A spider?

Do you see something in here? No, but I've seen spiders around. Okay, it may have been coming down. Right. So I'll just make a quick move on the clock. But, you know, when you start seeing the spiders, Bill, all I can say is, you know, I'm the one with the clove cigarettes. We were talking about Bacchanal.

I'd like to know the definition of where Bacchanal... It's probably Italian. No, it's Roman. It's the Roman... The Greeks didn't have the word Bacchanal? No, I think that's a Latin word, but the Greeks certainly had... Bacchanals. Whoa. I mean, and much gayer. I mean, what we would call... Now we would call gay. They just saw it as putting your dick in my ass. I mean, it was not like...

That was interesting in antiquity. Have you ever had a homosexual experience? No. Why? But it's early. We are at Club Random. Have you ever had a homosexual experience? No. Ever been fond of a guy? No, not in that way. What do you mean, that way? Have you ever looked at a guy and said, that guy's attractive? No. Have you ever looked at a beefy guy and said, that guy's beefy and attractive? No.

I am, look, maybe it's just my generation or whatever. I am really, do not have a gay bone in my body. I am a very heterosexual. Somebody's gay bone in your body. I'm a very heterosexual guy. I'm a flaming heterosexual. Always have been, you know, I mean, that's why, why does someone, you ask, why don't you ever get married? Because I like girls.

That's the reason. I mean, like, some people don't get married because they don't like girls at all, and some people don't get married because they like them a lot. That's it. So, like, no. The idea -- I mean, I'm a little homophobic in that, like, I don't -- You know, I don't want to be touched by men, except you. In my ass. Other than that. There's no danger there. Yeah, no, exactly.

And, you know, there's a range of sexuality, which I think we all recognize nowadays. I mean, there's like heterosexuals and there's certainly homosexuals and people trans and we all want to respect and we do respect them all. But, you know, the majority of people are still, it looks to me like, heterosexual people, you know? I remember when I made Religious, I tried to buy this song

for one of the scenes with this- TONY GUIDA: That was a great movie. RONALD KUBY: Oh, thank you. TONY GUIDA: Oh, that was so fabulous. RONALD KUBY: Yeah, I'm glad I got the chance to finally get that. TONY GUIDA: Walk around with a camera and talk about religion. RONALD KUBY: Yeah, and interview these people. And I wanted the song, I think it was by Wayne Fontenot and the Mindbenders, and it was like, "The purpose of a man is to love a woman, and the purpose of a woman-" You remember this song? TONY GUIDA: No.

Your take. Somebody really missed a trick by not putting you in more comedies as you got older, like they did with De Niro. Because you have that impeccable, dry, Canadian... I mean, that take... No. I mean, very few people can hit it like that.

And it's not too late. Right. You know? No, I've done a lot of comedy in my time. Yeah, but they should have a franchise for you, like Bad Grandpa or, you know, something like that, where you could do those kind of... I can't tell you how much I hate being 90.

Yeah, aging sucks. The oldest man in space. Why are they saying old? I went into space. I was courageous. I had an experience and I came down. Why are they saying? To get back to my theme about ageism that I was saying, like this is something I try, an issue I try to raise, the last prejudice allowed is

It's like people, it's annoying that people don't understand that, especially as we get age, your mileage may vary. They act like everybody over 50 is in great decline. Many are because as America, we are just not a healthy country to begin with. We don't do healthy things. We don't live healthy.

But obviously, it just depends. This could be 90. This can be 66. Or I know people who are 45 and are fucking old. You know, it depends on how you live as an individual. I am sick and tired of that. Like, you're 90, but that's... See, this is... I'd be happy if I... You're almost breathless in your passion. I'd be happy if I couldn't get out of the chair...

In two seconds when I'm 90. If I'm even just here and I can sit here and not know what... If I didn't know how old you were, it would never cross my mind. Like I said, when you look at somebody's face, immediately you go, oh, I want to fuck them or they don't look healthy. It wouldn't enter my mind. That's as much as you can ask for. We just had this conversation. There's no...

There's not one second where I was like, oh, boy, he's lost a step. Thank you. So don't be that upset about it. I know this comes to me. If I was 90, I'd be shitting my pants. Right. But be sending it off to see if it examines.

Talk to me. Talk to me. You know, we've been here a while and I know the time. I don't know whether you have a time. I have to because it's somehow this, which has been such a fucking amazing experience. Somehow it's also a show. And I have to. But we'll do it again. But you'll edit. We'll do it again. No, no editing. No editing. I wouldn't take one second out of this.

All right, because then the subject I want to talk to you about, if you have to bring this to an end, you bring it to an end. But the subject I would love to talk to you about is the religious thing you did. You say an atheist, but you don't mean an atheist doesn't believe in anything. You believe in the mystery. Well, that is what an atheist is. An atheist is just as Richard Dawkins, the most famous atheist, says, like everybody else,

There was all these gods, the Roman gods, the Greek gods, many gods in history. You all eliminated all of them. I just go one further. I just also eliminated the last one. And he says, even on a scale of one to seven, one being utter certainty there's a god, seven being utter certainty there isn't, he says, I'm a 6.9. I would say that's my position too. Utter certainty? No. We can't have that about anything. He says, there could be a spaghetti monster.

between here and Alpha Centauri. There could be. Could be anything. I don't know. I always say I'm a pathiest. I combine apathy and atheism. I don't know, and I don't care. I don't care. Well, but you can't call yourself apathy because you passionately went out with a camera to examine religions. Because I'm a comedian. Because when I pitched the movie with Larry Charles, the brilliant Larry Charles who directed it, I said, look,

religion, comedy, it's hitting the side of a barn.

and no one's done it. If you can't make hay out of, you know, a man lived inside of a whale and, you know, a talking snake in the room, I mean, come on. That's mostly what my interest in it was. Right, but they took you seriously. But personally, I don't care. I don't care if there's a God because I'll never know, and I'm going to live the same way unless he, like, actually came down or hit me with a bolt of lightning or something.

I stuck your hand up my ass. But then you're still forced to contemplate the questions, the eternal questions, and you don't have any answers. Well, you're not forced to contemplate them. What's going to happen is that they're going to enter your mind, and then you're going to go, I don't know. Yes, you know what could really make your head hurt, Bill? If you think about, I mean, the universe we think we know from physicists is 14 billion years old, right? No. Yes, it is.

That's the last point of light. That's when the Big Bang Theory happened, 14 billion years ago. The Hubble telescope has seen a constellation 13.8 billion years away. Right. Light years. Right. So wait a minute. What you're seeing is the photon of light 13.8 billion light years ago. Right. That constellation has gone somewhere in that time.

Yeah, well, my point was going to be, yes, the Big Bang Theory happens at this point. Except it's expanding. Okay, so if you really want to make your brain hurt, you would ask the question, first of all, why? Like, why is there anything? And if there was not anything, why is there a universe at all? And if there is not anything, isn't that something? These are questions that just make your brain hurt, so I don't deal with them.

Like, I deal with, oh, shit, I need ice. You know, I mean, I don't want to be that deep. You know, I just can't go there with you. Except that it leads... I'm not going to know in my lifetime. Sometimes it leads, and what you asked, if I came back with anything, because I believe, I'm sort of in your... Yes. Oh, thank you for getting me back to that.

I never heard the end of that. I'm in your cage. My man cave. I'm in your man cave. I'm there, because that's the way basically I feel. Accept that. You said string theory, so that involves entanglement, and that involves vibration.

And that involves being able to perhaps make things vibrate that gives you a parking spot at the restaurant you're going to go to. A guy pulls out, you pull in. I have a feeling you're like Johnny Carson. You know this shit a lot more in depth than the average person. This almost is to you like what I am with politics.

I mean, I know my shit inside out. That's why it's so nice to be able to have this conversation here with you because my show, I mean, let's be honest, it's for like...

DC insider types. You know, it's a political debate show mostly. I mean, asking the average person or even a celebrity to do that panel is like asking someone to just suit up and play for the Lakers. But this, like I can find- Because that's dangerous. Yes. But like, I have a feeling the way I am with that, you are with science. I mean, because like you're saying these things and I'm like, oh, I'm vaguely, but I'll never understand.

I just trust you. I trust the people like you and Neil deGrasse Tyson. Other people, yeah. Other people who, if you asked me about the Big Bang Theory, I'd be like, it's the most preposterous thing in the world that all the universe could have fit into something very small and then exploded. But I get it that they have ways of knowing this that I don't. And I submit. You're smarter about this. I yield. You know, it's a theory.

It's a theory, but it seems to be one they have coalesced around. Well, it's a theory. Really? You think it's controversial? Isn't science repeatable? Absolutely, yes. That's the definition of science. Yes, no. So repeat the Big Bang. And always up to be disproved. That's why it's different from religion and better, because we can disprove it. So the Big Bang is somebody's idea of what happened, and there's all kinds of reasons to think it happened, but...

Maybe it didn't. It's not repeatable. The mysteries of why the universe, our universe, seems to be expanding, because what we can see is like, why is it expanding? If only there was someone who could go where no man has gone before. Or gone where many men, more men. Anyway, this has been extravagant. Watch me get out of the camera.

- Watch me get out of this chair. - Since you're so reluctant to get out of this chair, and since you were such an amazing guest, and since I've loved you for so long-- - You can't go down on that slide. - I'm going to blow you. - Get your hands off of me. - You had no trouble getting out of the chair. - No, not whatsoever. - You have a confidence problem. And I'm telling you, you've been to parties.