We Don’t Understand Live Streamers | Trash Taste #47
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- What's up, Tomato Town? Welcome back to another episode of Trash Taste Podcast. - Wait, what do you mean? There's no one in Tomato Town, Joey. They're wiped out. - Oh shit, right. - I hope this means- - You're talking to nobody, Joey. You're talking to nobody. - It's gonna be real awkward if this meme is dead. - Yeah. - By the time this comes out. - No, we'll bring it back. - Knowing how fast memes fucking recycle, it's pretty obvious. - I will be singing "Chug Jug" till the end of the year. I swear to God. - I doubt it, I doubt it. I'll put money on it. You fucking won't. - By this time next month, everyone will be like, "What is a chug jug?"

- Anyway, I'm your host for this week, Joey, with the boys, Connor and Garnt. And we will not be talking about Fortnite memes today. - I mean, you know me, I'm a pro Fortnite gamer. - Honestly, this is like literally the meme of like, you know, the three children sitting on the couch. What's your favorite Fortnite meme? - What's the title of that video game? - You're only 30 years old, what is your favorite Fortnite meme? - What's the title of that video game?

- I can't remember what it is. - It's something about Fortnite, right? - Yeah. - Of course. - I don't remember. - I mean, you know when you see a meme picture and you just have no idea what the original context of that picture is? - Yeah. - There's so many pictures that I recognize and I have no idea. - One that I wanna know is what's the context of that picture of the dude sitting next to the three pictures of the people having a podcast? - I don't. - I wanna know the context of that 'cause we see that all the time on our subreddit.

- But anyway. - I thought he was talking about that. - Yeah, we're not gonna be talking about that. - Not gonna be talking about that. - We're gonna be talking today about YouTube stuff, I guess. - Twitter stuff? - Again, Twitter stuff, just internet stuff. - Well, I think there's been a few recent interesting things that have happened, but I think- - As of us recording. - Yeah, we're recording, I think, because we were having a bit of a two week break of recording, so this is gonna be like six weeks from when we- - Yeah. This will be all news by the time you guys are seeing it. - Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, so as of us recording this, I think it was two days ago, YouTube, the official Twitter account on YouTube announced an interesting update. - They are testing to see whether they should get just get rid, well, testing, which when YouTube starts to test something, 90% of the time it goes through. So they are testing to see if it's worth getting rid of the dislike button. Wait, not getting rid of it, but getting rid of- - Getting rid of how many dislikes a person-

- Publicly seen on a video essentially. - Yeah, I hope they, it's gonna be real awkward if they revert it by the time this comes out. - I mean, I just hope they revert it. - Even if they revert it, I do want them to. I will sell on the record now that I think is a fucking stupid idea. - So just in recent memory, what's the only things I can recall that YouTube backpedaled on was the verification thing where-

- Verification thing. - A year and a half ago or two years ago, they were like, no one's verified anymore. - Oh, that's right. - And only select channels can be verified. - I think it's like only music channels are verified. - Yeah, but it was like, people with like 10 million subscribers weren't like eligible or something. And it was like, well, who the fuck can be verified then?

There was that and then there was the YouTube heroes, which is the infamous one. - Oh my God. Oh my fucking God. I've completely forgotten about YouTube heroes. - That was only like last year, wasn't it? - No, that was like four years ago. - What was YouTube heroes again? - It was basically where they were gonna like let people be like moderators in a way. - Oh yeah. - I think it was their answer to like Twitch mods. - And also just calling it heroes is like, there are heroes of free- - Well, I mean, as the heroes of anime, you know.

- Yeah, but there's just been, I don't know. I feel especially with like these, we were talking about it before this podcast started, but I feel that when YouTube suggests a change or an implementation to this system, it's not so much a suggestion. It's more like, "Hey, so no one asked for this. And we're gonna tell you right before it starts happening, but this is what's happening. If you disagree with it,

- They also tested one time as well, like just getting rid of people's thumbnails. Like that was the thing, remember that? Where they were just like- - No. - Oh no, no, no. It was like the animated thumbnails, right? It was like where the previews, I mean, nowadays on YouTube, I think it where it's like, if you hover over a video thumbnail, then it plays like a preview of the video. But before, yeah, I remember this. They were gonna get rid of the idea of thumbnails and just replace it with the previews of thumbnail. - I don't know if that was the intention, I could be wrong, but I just remember there was a period where I would just log on YouTube

- Everything was moving? - Everything was moving or there was no thumbnails for anything. And then I found out later it was because of this YouTube test that they were doing on like 0.1%. - It just looked like those newspapers from Harry Potter where everything is just moving. - It's just annoying 'cause it seems like to me as a content creator, every time YouTube takes one step forward, they just take two steps back.

Like what was really sussed about that Twitter post for me was they were just like, "Guys, we hear you. "We hear the creator feedback. "We know you asked for this. "We are removing the dislike button." And then every creator comes up and went and was like, "Yo, did you guys ask for this? "'Cause I didn't ask for this." - Whose feedback is this? - Well, 'cause anyone who's making any content that is like reasonable, like anyone who's literally trying to make good stuff probably isn't afraid of the dislike button. - No. - Yeah.

- Personally, I mean, might change by this point. I've never had a video that has ever been like less than 90% likes. - Yeah, I mean, I feel like if it is less than 90% likes, like either you fucked up or it got recommended to an audience,

way outside of your usual audience, which is what I noticed. But yeah, I feel like the dislike button and like the dislike bar at least, I think it's a really useful resource. - Yeah, and I saw, 'cause I retweeted it with the fallout, everyone disliked this picture. - Yeah.

- Yeah, I was reading through the replies of that tweet and there were a lot of really like interesting points being made being like, you know, one of the biggest points I saw from a lot of big creators was that, well, if we get rid of the dislike bar, then how are people going to judge whether the video is like a scam or, you know, something is like just,

You don't wanna waste your time on a 10 minute video. - I think the first thing that came to mind was for me was tutorial videos. The first thing, because there are so many useless fucking tutorial videos and you know immediately when you click on something and the dislike bar is like, it's a 50/50 ratio, you're just like, all right. - Immediately close down. - Immediately close down, go to the next one. - Like back in the day, maybe you wanted some software that you probably should have been paying for.

I remember that the way that you would judge if it was a safe way to get it was like, all right, this video has lots of comments, lots of likes. I think this is safe. You click on another video, it's like, get this software for free. And it's like 80% dislike. You're like, probably not gonna download that. - Get it from this will definitely not hack your computer.com. For me, it's sometimes fucking Windows or some software gets this random error and you're just, you start Googling it and,

For some reason for me, I found that YouTube tutorial videos has been more useful than just Googling it and going into like specific Microsoft forums, which is just like- - From like six years ago. And you look at it, it's like posted in 2012, no replies. It's like, cool, thanks. And it's no replies or you get about like, try these 10 million fixes and one of these will possibly work.

- Let me just go on tangent. Yeah, that's fucking bullshit as well because sometimes they'll have like, you know, when you have like a problem that's like very minor and they'll be like, try uninstalling your RAM and GPU and putting it back in. I'm not gonna fucking do that. Like at that point I'm giving up. I'm throwing it in the trash. - Yeah, exactly. - But like, I feel that like the way YouTube tutorials work is that, you know, you search up this error code and then put it in YouTube

And like, there's gonna be one video that's got a positive like to dislike ratio and 90% of the time, that's the fix I'm looking for. Because every other video is just like 50, 50%. And I feel like to me, that's like legitimately the first thing that came to mind about removing dislikes. - It's frustrating as well 'cause I think there have been changes that YouTube has made that like, 'cause I mean, I think whenever YouTube makes any change, they get shit. Like even if it's a good change. - Oh yeah, of course.

And I think they have made some changes where everyone was shitting on it when it started and literally a week later, no one gives a fuck. - Right. - Like people like, okay, I understand why they did this and it was quite frustrating to get used to, but when they moved the comments to like, the comments used to be when you would be on a YouTube video like this one right now, you could just scroll and the comments would be right there at the bottom. - Right. - But then they moved it so that you had to just drop down and it was right there, which,

- At first I absolutely hated. I thought, why would you do this? And then now I'm like, this makes way more sense. Now that I've gotten used to it, it's streamlined everything. If I wanna read the comments, I'll open it. If I wanna just, I don't have to scroll through all these fucking videos. - I mean, if we're going all the way back to the OG times, right? Like I remember there was a movie

massive uproar when YouTube changed from the five star rating. - That was dog shit anyway. - I mean, I understand the uproar. - It happened with Netflix as well. - I mean, I understand it and I prefer this new YouTube. - Oh yeah, of course. But like, I remember back in the day, people were like, "No, I'm so used to like rating five stars." Now YouTubers were like, "Well, how am I gonna end off the video? I used to be able to say rate five stars, but now I gotta like,

- Ask people to like? - Smash the like button? - Smash the like button? - I do think that when they do these changes as well, like they must have some data on their end that says this is a good idea. - Yeah. - Right? - Well, yeah, it's not completely baseless, I'm sure. - Right, which is why like, I wish that they would be like, listen, this is our idea, right? We're thinking- - Not be like, listen, we hear you.

- I fucking hate that. - Don't fucking pretend like you're doing me a solid. You fucking do anything. - Don't pretend like you give a shit about the people who use your website. - Thanks corporation, my best friend. - You wanna do me a solid? Reply to me when I have a fucking problem. Don't fucking tell me that you're removing dislikes. And the only reason they're fucking doing it anyway, and I'm pretty sure everyone knows they're doing it because of this is 'cause like, you know, a bunch of really big names got into controversy and dislikes play a really pivotal part. - Right.

I think in YouTube, we have this way where we have like kind of decided that a YouTube or an apology, if you will, it's success is based on like to dislike. - Yeah. - Right? So I think that YouTube was trying to get rid of that where we judge your videos, you know, quality. - Well, I kind of like that because I mean, obviously, you know, I wouldn't be saying this if I was on the receiving end of it, but as someone who's seeing, you know,

- I think it's awesome as a viewer. - It's also cool as well because I, a lot of the times use that as a gauge to figure out like the general idea of what the community thinks about this particular video or this particular person. - 'Cause sometimes, you know, when these apology videos come out and I'm like, "Hey, you know, that's a good apology." And I look at the video and there's like, you know, 20,000 likes to 100,000 dislikes. I'm like, "Whoa, why is everyone like any other?"

"What did I do? Am I missing something?" - Exactly, exactly. It kind of re, I guess it like re-justifies like, "Oh, do I really fully understand the whole context of this video?" Because I might think this is a good apology video, but 100,000 other people disagree.

So it's kind of like, oh, okay, well then maybe I should walk into it more. - Also there's just something cathartic about having the dislike button there. It just doesn't feel right if you're just smashing a button and it just doesn't really mean anything. It's like going onto a video, right? And just seeing the comments turned off. Nothing makes me more like angry

than going on a video and wanting, not even wanting to comment on it, just wanting to see what other people think of it and just being removed that privilege. - Exactly. - And I just feel like as well, this is just gonna lead to more shitty comments.

Because if you take away one avenue, as we all saw with, what is it like Twitter, right? It's just ratioing now. That's like the new thing. - Did Twitter ever have a dislike button? I don't think it did. - No, they never had a dislike button. - No, but what did they change? They took, I feel like ratioing is a recent thing. - Yeah, ratioing is a recent thing. - Why did ratioing start happening?

- I think it's because- - Do we wanna explain what ratioing is? I've talked to several people and they've not known what ratio is. - Well, ratioing, oh, I mean, do you wanna explain? - On Twitter? - Yeah, it's just basically like where if a tweet is so bad, right? You'll know it's an awful tweet when there'll be like more replies than likes. And that's called ratioing 'cause you're like the ratio is so much higher to comment. - Or if a reply to the original tweet has more likes than the actual tweet. - Exactly. - It's like both either ways, right? - Yeah. - So I feel like,

if there's likes on the video, people are just gonna start ratioing in the comments. - Oh yeah. - They're just gonna like up the one talking shit. - Yeah. - But on YouTube you can delete the comments as well. - Right, exactly. - I don't know, it just seems like a stupid idea. I don't know. - But that's the thing, right? - I hope they revert it. - Yeah, that's the thing, right? And I think that's why it's such a big problem for people because I think a lot of YouTubers realize that

because creators can and have the space to delete comments if they want to and delete like hateful, hurtful, negative comments. - Which you should be able to. - Which you should be able to, don't get me wrong. But you can't get rid of a dislike.

And for a lot of people, if they go onto a YouTube video and they realize, oh, this person who uploaded this video is getting rid of negative comments. Well then the only other way I can express how I feel about this video is to hit the dislike button. - Yeah, and another thing is like the way they framed it, like they were doing a solid for the creator where the creator, they literally said the creator can still see how many dislikes this video has. So it doesn't help the creator at all 'cause they're the only ones who can still see

- You can still see it. - Right. I felt the exact same way when Instagram got rid of publicly showing how many likes a post has and yet the creator can still see how many likes the post has. I'm just like, what's the difference at that point? Like you're still putting this like pressure on the person putting it up, right? - With Instagram, I'd actually argue I think it was a good thing. - I think it was a good thing. - You think so? - Yeah. - I think so. 'Cause I think Instagram was like,

highly competitively toxic with likes. - I guess maybe I didn't think that way because I'm not part of that. - I'm not into that. - If you follow me on Instagram, I am sorry that there is just like zero content and zero updates at all. It's a dead account. - Really says a lot when out of the three of us, I'm the most active on Instagram and yet I post like once a month. - I just don't like the platform that much. And I think it used to be like the likes was definitely a thing that I didn't really like at all.

'cause to me that was like- - 'Cause it really felt like people were just like farming and just like fucking, it really bred this toxic kind of environment where people were, it was literally like a cloud chasing kind of platform. - Well, the question then, would you guys, if Twitter, for example, implemented the same things Instagram did, would you be okay with it? - I would actually. - Really?

- I don't know. I felt like Twitter is different. - Yeah, right? - I wouldn't want it on Twitter. Wait, okay, before we get into that then. - Yeah. - I have this like, I don't know if this is like tinfoil hat. A part of me just thinks, is YouTube just trying to shift all the drama onto like Twitter?

Like you can't, 'cause you like now, right? Let's say, you know, you can't dislike something publicly. Let's say the comments are filtered. - Yeah. - I wonder is YouTube just being like, go to Twitter, go and argue on Twitter. Don't fucking argue. - I didn't think about that, but that's- - 'Cause now it's, you know, with the dislikes gone, what is there to do other than comment? And you know, a lot of the time with these videos, people are just gonna turn off comments, right?

- Fucking great, just even more toxicity towards Twitter. - I do wonder 'cause you know, even if it's a YouTube creative, all the shit's going down on Twitter, I wonder if YouTube can be like, oh, I don't know.

- I mean, I feel like that's not going to happen because there's been such an increase in like commentary and drama channels now that the conversation is still going to stay on YouTube. It's just a lot of people maybe can only publicly comment about it on Twitter. - Also, if anything, it does really seem like

- At first glance, it does seem like everyone who is following something on YouTube also uses Twitter, but that is really not the case. Like I very quickly found out that yes, even though I might have a massive following on Twitter,

compared to like the people who use YouTube, it's really not a lot. It's not even the majority of people. - Yeah. - Like I remember like there was one time where like I posted something on my Twitter and then I talked about it on my YouTube and I got a lot of people being like, well, I don't use Twitter. - Yeah. - But in the back of my head, I was like, oh yeah, there are some people who don't use Twitter. - Well, I mean, I think it's gotten to the point now where I've kind of had this realization where

every platform is kind of like in its own, it's most of the time it's in its own bubble. You can be really, really popular on one platform and then open an account on another platform and just have like zero followers. - I mean, there's so many YouTubers who have a million plus subs on their YouTube. But then when you go onto their Twitter, they have less than 50,000 followers. - Yeah, it's like, I can't- - It depends on the content, right? That's like kind of how it, you know,

- But also, I can't imagine how many fucking TikTokers I just don't know about just 'cause I'm not on the platform. - Oh yeah. - Yeah, and the thing is they could open a Twitter account 'cause to me, the way I see Twitter now is just like fucking influencer Facebook. - It literally is, yeah. - That's basically what it's like for me now.

Sometimes I hear about a TikToker who has like fucking millions and millions of followers on TikTok, opens a Twitter and it's like, you know, less followers than us. Even though they have like more followers on their own platform. In YouTube terms, if they had that many subscribers on like YouTube, then there would be massive creators. - Not all the followers slash subscribers are created equal though, right?

- Yeah, that's true. Like it also really depends on how much you focus and post on that platform. - Yeah, that's true. - And how much you're known by your audience to use that platform. - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah, man, I wondered, 'cause I'm thinking like, as content creators, if you're somebody who say does not give a fuck about anything and you're like, I don't care what people say about me,

I feel like the only really tool that like an audience or a platform has to kind of, what's the word? Police you or give feedback is like public shaming almost. I feel like getting rid of the dislike is a part of like, you know, taking away from that. 'Cause I feel like as content creations, content creators, sorry, my gosh.

the only real tool other than like YouTube deleting your channel is like, and it sounds bad 'cause it sounds really fucking terrifying when you say public shaming, but that's like the only real tool that is there to like stop you from doing shitty stuff. - Yeah. - Most of the time for a lot of people who are questionable. - 'Cause I don't think removing the dislike button is not gonna get rid of toxicity.

- It's just gonna get people to figure out other creative ways to produce that toxicity. - Exactly, right? All that's gonna happen is it's gonna shift into another form. And I feel like to me, removing the dislike button is just so weird to me 'cause it- - It's just censorship.

- I don't think it's censorship. - I feel it's like a form of it, right? Because again, like, you know, if there's again, like a video where it's an apology video or something controversial and you turn off the comments and the dislikes aren't shown, then how else are you supposed to say anything about it? - I feel like the term censorship gets thrown around a lot nowadays. - That's true. - You know, I feel like this is,

pushing the definition of what censorship is. But what it is, is that it's removing a way for us to express ourselves. - I wonder if it's a similar case to when the whole kids on YouTube thing, where they were like all doing like gymnastics or something, people commenting gross things. And then YouTube response was, "Well, we'll just turn off all the comments for kids videos."

And then YouTube's like, "Well, there's no more pedophiles on YouTube now. They're all gone." - If you can't see the pedophiles, then they're not there, right? - What do you mean, where are they? There's no negativity on YouTube. There's no dislikes. What do you mean? It almost feels like that. That YouTube's like, if you just remove the option to show it publicly to anyone, it doesn't exist. - It's just the whole like, see no evil, be no evil. - There's fucking tons of videos of kids doing probably inappropriate things on YouTube still that are fucking creeps are probably still watching them, right? But now it's hard to just fucking find these videos and report them. 'Cause like, you know,

how the fuck are you supposed to when there's not like a bunch of creepy dudes in the comments? - Unless you like actively go out and search for those videos, but who the fuck is wasting their time doing that, right? - Pedophiles.

- I mean like normal people who are trying to get rid of those, right? It's like, no one's doing that. - I mean, there's so many circles and so many like rabbit holes that I'm sure people can fall down in YouTube that it's just like that we're just not aware of, you know? Like it's because that just shows how big YouTube is as a platform and how like, I mean, I feel for YouTube because when you have a platform this big, no matter what you do, there's gonna be something wrong with your platform, right? - Yeah, 100%. - Yeah, but I feel like what they're doing with the dislike button is

it's going in the wrong direction. Just because a problem exists, like removing your ability to express it or removing your ability to see that problem doesn't get rid of the problem. It just shifts it to somewhere else.

And yeah, I don't know. I don't know what they were thinking. I don't know what they're gonna do. - I feel it's not even about like shifting it as well. It's like, it's not only shifting it, but I feel more times than not, it also propels it into something like a lot more toxic and a lot more just out of control.

I think it would breed more toxicity, right? 'Cause that just means people have to find another way. - It just means that like the people who are shouting the toxicity now just have to shout it even louder for them to be like, well, I need people to see what I have a problem with. - Yeah, because if like part of the catharsis, I don't know if that's a word of like seeing a shitty video is just knowing that you're not the only one who agrees that this is a shitty video, right? - Exactly. - Right?

It is good when you see like this bad video, this bad apology and you can see that one, the first thing you see is the dislike button and the dislike bar. Like my God, it was great seeing like YouTube rewind

and just seeing that everyone collectively agreed that it was just a train wreck, right? Sorry YouTube, but it was. - I love how a lot of the comments as well were like, "Oh man, YouTube was just salty that they got ratio." - I don't think that was the reason on record, but it was funny. - It was a good meme. - That was the reason on record.

- I don't recommend it. This is the official result. - Corporates at YouTube are like, fuck, I can't believe people would hate our product like this. - Susan's just like, I'm never gonna forgive them. I cannot believe it. After all these years, she's just been planning this for years, waiting for the right person to be canceled, to be like, okay, now's the time to implement this. - Now we have an excuse to implement it. - I wonder if they were like, there was a YouTube meeting, they were like, guys, everyone's hating on cancel culture right now.

Let's be the ones to end cancel culture. Let's remove the dislike button. And they're like, "Oh my God, you're a genius. "All YouTubers are gonna love this." - Who would have thought it was that easy? - They can't be canceled anymore. There's no dislikes. Why is everyone hating this? What is happening? I thought we were doing a good thing. - I thought you guys hated cancel culture. - We're removing negativity. What? - This episode is sponsored by ExpressVPN. Going online without ExpressVPN is like not having a case on your phone.

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- That's what it feels like. - Yeah, it really is. - 'Cause like before this, I would say that actually I think YouTube was in a pretty healthy state. - Yeah, Twitter was fucked, but YouTube was good. - Yeah, YouTube was good. - Twitter was like toxic and obviously felt a bit vile sometimes, but YouTube just felt like just a dislike and that was it. - It was a nice balance. - It was a little finger, like fuck you. - Yeah, like fuck you, okay, I'll get on with my day now. And like,

I think they have done a lot of positive changes. I do like the changes they did to the copyright system. It's not perfect, but it's better than it was before. I like the fact that you have to like specifically put a timestamp of what part of your video has been copyrighted. And as a creator, you can still remove that part that's being copyright strikes and have no effect on your channel. I think that's,

the best balance that we could have hoped for. - And when you appeal for it, it like goes, the money you make from that video now goes into this limbo state where it doesn't go to the creator and it doesn't go to the supposed copyright holder. - Yeah, that was a good change. - Which is fucking fantastic. It's like, we've been wanting that for years now. And YouTube was like, we've heard your feedback. - To be fair, that probably should have happened in the beginning.

- Yeah, of course. - I mean, it should have happened in the beginning, but what I'm saying is if- - They eventually did it. - Yeah, they eventually did it and it felt like this change, the changes they're making now is just,

it's just unnecessary because no one asked for this. And I think right now, before this, as a content creator, I was pretty happy with YouTube as a platform. You knew what you could get away with, you knew what you couldn't get away with. I feel like right now, if one of your video gets demonetized aside from trash taste videos, because

- Yeah, I don't know why half the videos that got demonetized got demonetized because- - But like most of the time, if I upload something and it's a 10 to 15 minute, I know which videos are more high risk to get demonetized. And I know most of the time it's kind of on me for making that video subject.

And then you have Trash Taste where for some reason, some of our podcast episodes just get demonetized and we hit, and it's just like, we hit the appeal button and I guarantee the person who's like reviewing the content did not watch the entire two hours. - They're like, "Oh fuck, it's two hours long? "Jim, you're gonna watch the whole thing? "No, fuck it, we'll just leave it yellow then."

- Well, what's weird about the "Trash Taste" episodes is that I think on record we have about like maybe five or six of the episodes now that are still demonetized, but it's five or six episodes that shouldn't have been demonetized. We look at it, we look back at it and we're like, I don't know what part of this video flagged what, but we have like,

a bunch of other videos and episodes where it's like, these are the ones, if anything, that should have been demonetized. But they're not for some reason. - Like the Konbini episode, that got demonetized, right? - Yeah, the Konbini episode got demonetized, and yet the hentai episode is still monetized. - Dude, dude, dude. - Don't tell them. - Oh, sorry, the fancy font episode one is still monetized, yeah. - The Greek letter episode. - Anyway.

- Yeah, I don't know. It's just, I don't know. The one time, like one day I think to myself, okay, I figured out what exactly it is that YouTube does not like about whatever video it is that flags their demonetization system. And then the next day I'm like, nevermind. I don't know what you want. - 'Cause another thing I've noticed about YouTube recently is in a positive light, when did YouTube comments get really good?

- Is that just me? - What do you mean? - What do you mean good? - The comment section right now, like you click on a random meme video and the comments are always golden. And it didn't used to be that way 'cause it used to be like this one overused joke in every comment section, but- - No one.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the no one. - They were all fucking copypasters. - Yeah, yeah. But now I don't know if it's just me, but I think like- - Yeah, pretty funny. - Yeah, like half of my enjoyment when clicking on a random video is just going to the comment section. - It's weird because I feel like the whole like, you know, commenting in a meme format in a meme video, it's just like, I don't know, people are just thinking to themselves, okay, in order for me to stand out in this absolute cesspool of comments on this one video, I actually need to be,

surprise creative about it. Otherwise I'm just gonna get swept in with all of these other like meh comments. So now people, now there's like this weird pressure to be like, if I'm gonna comment on this meme video, I'm gonna make it a fucking banger joke. Otherwise no one's gonna like it and it's just gonna get buried. - And then you haven't commented in the first hour so you're not gonna be on top comments anyway.

- Yeah, exactly. This episode is sponsored by ExpressVPN. - I know that none of you watch porn, right? - No, of course not, ew. - But just in case you have any friends that do, you'll want to pay attention to this. With everything going on in the world, governments have increased their surveillance. They're using your devices to track your location, movements, and in many countries, your internet activity. - Disgusting. - You don't want to be literally caught with your pants down, do you?

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all of you do the same. Without ExpressVPN, you're giving people a free license to peek over your shoulder and frankly see all the freaky shit you're looking at. - I will not stand for that and that's why I will get ExpressVPN. So protect your privacy today and get three months of ExpressVPN for free. Visit expressvpn.com/expressvpn.

That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N.com/trashtaste. - For free three months on a one year package. It's an insane deal. So what are you waiting for? Go and visit expressvpn.com/trashtaste to learn more. - Back to the episode. - So I'm curious as content creators and YouTubers who have not given their feedback. - As influencers. - As influencers who have not actually given their feedback to YouTube. Is there anything you would like to say to YouTube to improve the platform? Is there any actual feedback you would like to give?

you would like to give to YouTube apart from, and hopefully they'll actually hear us. - That's a good question. I don't know. - Yeah, because like for me, like, I don't know. There's another system that's just been recently implemented and it's the checking system. - Ah, yeah. - Like I uploaded a video recently and,

- So for those of you who don't know, when you upload a video, YouTube used to like some pre-checks to make sure it was like content friendly and content monetizable. Now those checks for absolutely no reason just take an hour plus.

- I don't know if it's because it's like this new system is in beta or whatever, but yeah. - But I heard nothing about this. They weren't transparent about that at all. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember like the first time it happened on one of my videos, I was like, "Oh no, am I in trouble? What's going on?" Like why are they like- - Diagnosing video. - Yeah, why are they like fucking like enhance, enhance this video to be like, "We gotta find at least one frame where we can fucking sick this guy." - I don't know.

I don't know who the fuck is in charge of PR, but like, why does it always feel that when they like tell us something, finally they tell us something. It's like just the dumbest shit. Like,

- We didn't need to know that the dislikes are being removed. How about you just reply to my emails when I'm like having a problem? I think that's just the one thing that has consistently been an issue that I think everyone talks about, which is like communication and the fact that when you have an issue that could be very simple, it just becomes 10 times more difficult because you're just like, fuck you, I'm not gonna talk to you. And then it's like, well, you know,

it's not like you're not making a decent money for YouTube, you know, if you're living, it feels like, well, you know. - Well, that's the thing, right? Like, and that's the part where I can't exactly be like, wow, YouTube, I can't believe you'd ignore us like that because I mean, fuck, like.

how many channels are there now that have over a million subs? Already that's like thousands and thousands. And there's probably all of those YouTubers probably have at least one period in their life where they're like, I need you to reply to me. So it's like, I feel- - How often do you need to email YouTube for help? Like once a year at most, right? - Yeah, like maybe once or twice a year. - So then like at that level, right? Let's say if there is like some kind of mythical barrier, it's like a million subs, you get to have someone. That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.

But also I feel like it's something that YouTube just doesn't wanna do either. They don't wanna fuck with that. - And again, like, you know, that would be fine if it was only those like million plus subs who even have access to the YouTube email, right? But literally, you know, you could have a channel with fucking 10 subs be like, "YouTube, why did you delete my video? Please help." Right? So it's like- - Yeah, 'cause most of the, you know, if you are a YouTuber, right, you'll probably follow an account called Team YouTube on Twitter.

which is like YouTube customer support, but not on their own fucking platform. - Yeah, but it's a bot. - You might tweet them something that gets like tons of attention, tons of stuff, and then they won't reply to it, but they'll be replying to someone who's like a bunch of other people who are like, "Hey, I got locked out of my account." And they're like, "Oh, well, here's how you can do it."

- It's a bit fucked that in order to get YouTube's attention, you literally have to ratio them. - No, you do. I mean, you have to spam them, it's unfortunate. - Yeah, you do. It's like, you just got ratio, YouTube's like, fuck, you got me. All right, we'll help you out. - It's like, how well can you ratio? That's how quickly we will reply to your email. - But also, you know, like I've heard people who have gotten immense amount of help just 'cause they, you know, went to like one YouTube event, met a YouTube employee and then they all pull strings for you. - Yeah. - Right? And that feels like, it's like,

- It's like, well, your mate knows the prison guard. So you're not gonna get shanked. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's like, well, how is that fair? Like I'm stuck in this system and I have to work with you. I can't fucking do anything. - It's like, maybe I don't wanna go to your fucking workshop, YouTube. Have you thought about that? Maybe I just want some help because my video got wronged. - Because the only time I ever got help from YouTube was because I got very lucky and I was like,

I had a really good partner manager who was super, super like, I think at the time they were new to YouTube and they were super down to like really be in depth and talk with me and be like, "Hey, what do you need? "What do you need help with?" And they were very nice and helped me out a lot. And I was just sitting there the whole time I was getting all this help. I was like, "Oh my God." Like I sent how many fucking emails, did so many other things, reached out to so many people. All it took was just one YouTube employee who was nice to me, who recommended me to like the engineering team or whatever. And all my problems got fixed.

And it's like, this is so dumb that this is what it takes. That I have to be like, I have to have a man on the inside to help me out. - You need a double agent. - It's like, you know, and they don't work there anymore. So I don't even have the help anymore. So now I'm fucked if I have an issue. - So you're like square on, right? - I just gotta like cry on Twitter. And it's like, I hate doing that. I don't wanna be a child. - Right.

- Do you know one feature on YouTube I do genuinely want removed? And I don't know if I would be the only one here. Your video is this ranked out of 10 of your previous 10 videos. I understand it does serve a use, but I don't know. - I'm indifferent to it because it's like,

it depends on how well the video did really. - That's the point Joey. - Where it's like, if I see a video and it's like, your video got less views from your frequent viewers, nine out of 10, when it's just like, fuck this system. But then when it's like one out of 10 and you see those fireworks, you're like, damn, I'm good. - We've explained the system about before, just to recap real quickly, YouTube ranks your videos and how they're doing against your other videos, the past 10 videos, it ranks them one out of 10, one being the best, 10 being the worst.

- I actually quite like it. - You like it? - As much as I hate it, I like it. I think it's good. Before, I remember, did you just have like an estimate in your head of what was good views? - Yeah, yeah. For me it was like, if I get so and so views in the first 24 hours, good view. If it's...

- Over that, great video, below that, bad video. - The problem with that is that your average of what I expect video to get is never static and that number is always changing. And I think it's good because I don't know what I should be aiming for. And at least this has kind of helped me like set expectations and figure out, okay,

it's been a really good way of figuring out personally, all right, if something's number 10, all right, let me go and reevaluate that. Yeah, it fucking sucks and I'm not happy about it. And sometimes I genuinely do think it was a really fucking good video that got fucked by one reason or another.

But most of the time I do feel like it's been really helpful. As much as it makes me wanna just like quit YouTube. - I feel though like it's kind of a double edged sword in that case though, because I remember where, you know, when you have like say a really fucking good streak, right? Of like one to two months of worth of videos that are just a banger after banger after banger,

all over performance. - It's like the stock market, you're bubbling. - Right, right. - The bubbles do a pop. - You know the fall is coming. - Yeah, and then you're like, I'm expecting the fall, where's the fall? And then you wake up the next morning and your newest video is like nine out of 10 or even like a 10 out of 10, right? And you're like, well, shit, this is the end of my career. But then when you look at that video, like in retrospect, if you just say, screw it to the other nine videos, let me just look at this video on its own.

actually doing okay. It just feels like the video is doing crap because your other nine videos were just over-performing, right? - Yeah. - You wanna hear a big brain strap? Just make a shit video. Make a shit video, right? - You purposely make a 10 out of 10? - This is what I do, right? Every now and then, as much as I think all my ideas are mostly good, sometimes I'll make a video and it comes out shit. And then I'm like, you know what? Fine, have a 10 out of 10.

- Put my expectations down. - Reset the expectations. - I'm like, let's just humble myself for a moment here. Let's just upload a shit video. I have uploaded videos where I thought like, oh my God, what am I doing? And then like, I've also had the opposite happen where I'm like, this is a 10 out of 10 video. And I'm like, this is God. - Really? - It's unwatchable. And it literally got like one out of 10. And I'm like, I fucking hate it here.

- Yeah. - This video is shocked. - I've had that before as well. - The worst ones are like, damn, this is gonna be a banger video. Nine out of 10. - Yeah, man, that, yeah. - Oh, nothing feels worse than that, man. - Nothing feels worse, man. - Nothing feels worse. - Like my entire, like I do check that in the morning once the video goes up. I see that and I'm just like, entire day ruined.

- Yeah. - Just like that. - I guess what I think is that maybe like, I do see the usefulness in it, so I don't think it should be removed, but I think it should be harder to find because it's like front and center. - It is literally the first thing you will see. - Literally the first thing you see when you log in, right, to your account. And YouTube's either giving you a clap or being like, "Son, I expected better from you. What the fuck is wrong?" - Man, I don't know.

- I think it's all right. I think where it is is fine, honestly. - I think this is how you like personally perceive it, right? - I think it very much takes a, you have to kind of take your emotions out of it a little bit to really appreciate it. Which sounds so robotic. You have to be like, I think you just have to appreciate the data for what it is. All it is is neatly packaging the truth you're hiding from yourself.

in a way that is digestible within 10 seconds. - I think that's the healthy advice to be like, yo, you- - You should just get over it. - Just not be sad. - Stop being sad. - Just don't be emotional. Just why are you feeling emotions? 'Cause like, you know, it's just your livelihood, fuck off.

- I mean, we've talked about before, like how a lot of YouTubers before said they don't care about the views, but you do have like as much as you want to think that you are not emotionally attached to your content and the numbers around your content,

You do care. - It's your job. - At some level you do care. And it's not like, I think you just have, you would have to be like a heartless robot to make something you're proud of and not care about how many people view it, right? - The way I see it, it's like, I don't care if I spill my drink, but I care if I spill my drink and it wrecks my PC and fucks everything up, right? Like I feel like there's an acceptable amount of fucking up that I'm like, ah, I'll deal with that, right? If I get one 10 out of 10, all right, well,

"All right, well, all right." It happens, it happens. Something's gotta be 10 out of 10. - Well, yeah, of course. - Two 10 out of 10s in a row. I'm like, "All right, okay, okay, okay." It happens sometimes. Three 10 out of 10, I'm like, "Okay, all right, well, okay, what is going on?" That's when it starts to affect me. But the first one, I don't really let it affect me. I'm like, "You know what?

- Just statistics are just saying that this is gonna happen eventually. - Right, no, I completely get that, right? Like, of course, eventually you're gonna have to get a tattoo. - I love math and you know, I appreciate that. - No, I do too, don't get me wrong. But like, you know,

- I know that eventually this streak or whatever it is I'm on is gonna eventually run out, right? - Yeah, and even then, if you think about it, right? The more you're getting five out of 10, six out of 10, all you're doing is making it closer and closer. So if you're getting one out of 10s or 10 out of 10s every time, you're making a like famine or feast situation, which is fine. But what I'm at right now, at least my past few videos have all been around like give or take like,

minimal percentage away from each other. Like the difference between third and eighth for me is nothing. So like at that point I'm like, I don't even feel bad about any of it. 'Cause I'm like ninth or third, it's barely any difference to me. So why is YouTube trying to make you fucking feel bad about it? Stop that YouTube. - No, but because there's another factor that I feel like this doesn't take like account for. And that's like a long-term performance of a video.

'Cause some of my videos, some of my videos that have been a nine, 10 out of 10 have gone on to grow and to be like some of my most popular videos. And I feel like what this system like really emphasizes is how well a video does short term. Whereas YouTube, as like a content creator who's been on the platform for a very long time, I know that short term performance doesn't mean a lot.

But like no matter what, no matter if I make a video that I'm proud of and I think it's gonna perform well long-term, I still feel shit about it if it just is that nine or 10 out of 10. - We need one out of your whole channel uploads, like one out of like 1000 or whatever, how many uploads you have. - Right. I mean, I think that's just going onto the videos and looking up most people

- But then you'll always feel good. Cause you'll never have like a lowest one ever again. Cause you'll never have less views. You know what I mean? Like YouTube, come on. - It's like, whenever you're feeling bad, he's just like, let me just go check out my most viewed videos of all time. You know what, I still got it. - Cause like, okay. Like, I dunno if us talking about this, I don't know how the viewers feel about this being like, wow, this is such a first world problems nowadays. Like Jesus Christ, they're complaining about this. But the reason, the reason like I think about it a lot is because

- Before this, I really did not give a shit about, like I didn't, not that I didn't give a shit, I didn't really put as much focus on my mental health until I started working in the creative industry. And then I realized, oh shit, my mental health actually matters when it comes to my work. Where before I would just like grind out my job, feel like shit,

but it would be easy, right? - And then drink the sadness away at home, right? - And then drink the sadness away or just like fucking wait for the weekend. You live for the weekend, you reset. But now it's like a constant, okay, I actually have to care about this thing. Otherwise it will literally affect how well I'm performing at my job. - I have no more weekends and I'm constantly home. - And I'm not, but like not,

I'm not saying like, you know, if you have bad mental health then you'll have an easy time doing your job. But it's just like in a creative job, you really see the effects of having bad mental health, which is why to me, like this, a system like this to me is like, you get more L's than you get more than W's in my opinion. - No, of course, absolutely. - And it's a system where it's like, you get that one W like,

three times out of 10, but like seven times out of 10. - It's also because you're fighting in a system that you have absolutely no control over, right? It's like, you can't control whether a video gets a 10 or a one. It's just how it is, right? So when you do get that one or you do get that dub, it's like fucking 300 winning against the Persian empire, right? It's like, oh shit.

I mean, I wasn't expecting it, but fuck me, I'll take it. - Leonardo's pulling through. - Yeah, literally. - You know, there's another feature on the whole rating your videos and how they perform thing, which I don't actually quite like. 'Cause I think it's just the language they use is like, fuck off. - Yeah. - Right. - It's like, this video is performing worse than usual. - Yeah.

- I hate that. - It's like my mum talking. I'm like, I wish I could just put it in like another language. Like fuck off, I don't wanna read this shit. - It's like that passive aggressive note that's left on your fridge when you're living in university, right? - It's like motherfucker, I know how to read a graph. I don't need you to tell me. It's like, there's,

one curve that is lower than the other. This curve is lower than the other. That means it's doing worse. And I'm like, no shit it's doing. That's typically how graphs work. It tells you information. - What I hate is that it starts off with like the layman's terms of like, this is performing worse than usual. And then it goes on to be like, it's performing 47% less. It's like, you didn't,

You could have just got rid of that first part. You could have just said it's performing 47% less and I would have- - It's the pandering language that YouTube tries to use of like, yeah, we care about you. - We hear you. - We hear you. - This isn't an intervention, but it could be. So sort your shit out. - It's frustrating. - How do you guys feel about the algorithm itself? - I don't give a fuck.

- I don't even know what it is at this point. Like, you know, again, it's like- - Yeah, when you grow, right, you give a fuck. You're like, well, write that down. Anytime MatPat would say anything, you're like, fuck, write that down. - Yeah, whenever you're growing, you're like, well, shit. I mean, I need to be listening to this. Otherwise I'm gonna be stuck in my sub count forever. But when you get to a certain point and you can just kind of make whatever the hell you want, it's just like,

I feel like I figured it out and then some days it's just like, nope, that's not how that works. - Yeah, I mean, I feel like every creator at least that has been around for a while and I feel like this is probably like a reason why you do stay around a while is that you just stop valuing like getting crazy sub growth and just being like, I just wanna make good shit that just maintains what I have. Like, I don't think you need to keep growing. We will keep growing. - Yeah.

but it's not something I really care about. - Well, that's my mentality of it. It's like at the end of the day, if I see that I have more subs at the end of the day than I did at the beginning of the day, whether that's one sub or 10,000 subs, it's like, well,

I'm still here, I guess. - 'Cause like, I feel like as a YouTuber, the hard part is getting to around like 100K to 500K subscribers. But I feel like, you know, because luck can play such a big part in that and like getting your videos on the algorithm itself. But I feel like once you get to around that size, it becomes more predictable than people give it credit for.

- Yeah. - You know, because at that point it becomes more like a game, right? Where you know what's gonna perform well, you know, you kind of know what's gonna perform well and sometimes you get this lucky hit where you're just like, I don't know why this video is doing so well. But most of the time, if you get to a,

you can kind of predict how, what you need to do to grow. - Yeah. - If you understand the system at least. - Yeah. - If you understand the platform. - This episode is sponsored by Mack Weldon. - Gamers, this year, spring is gonna hit a little different. Because we're all starting to finally get outside and see friends again.

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- Off. - Mack Weldon reinventing men's basics. - Back to the episode. - I feel like it's almost like, you know, to get to the million, you know, you have to go through like the proving grounds of sorts, right? To get to that size, you have to consistently prove to YouTube that you can make content that is engaging to people.

And then I feel like you can just kind of be like, all right, well, you know, I feel like it feels like less effort 'cause you just know what you're doing. So you feel like I put less thought into things. So I'm like, well, you know, I know that won't work inherently, like just by looking at stuff. I'm like, that's a bad thumbnail. That's a bad title, you know?

And then you can just kind of like, not take it easy, but you can focus more on just having a healthy work schedule. - Right. - Yeah. - I mean, we've said this before a hundred times and I'm sure everyone can figure it out. When you first start out, it's brutal, the hours you put in. - Oh yeah, of course. - For nothing. - But I also like- - For like $2 if you're lucky. - But I also like, I remember back in the day when I was still growing, I never once thought to myself, that's a good title or that's a bad title. That's a good-

- That's a bad thumbnail. - I just tried to explain the video. And then I was like, wait, that's- - I was just like, here is image of game with number in the corner. Episode seven, done. - I'd be like the Sebastian call where the girl gets excited. And it was like, well, that's not a good time. I started changing it up. - Yeah, but past you is like, well, I mean,

now people know what this video is, right? It's perfect. - Yeah, yeah. - I feel like the platform has changed a lot since we started growing. - You could get away with doing the parts before. You can't do parts. - No, not anymore. - You can't do video parts now. - Unless you have like a massive series that people are really waiting for. - Right, right. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - We say parts, well, fucking Trash Taste is parts.

- Yeah, we've literally put numbers on each of our episodes. - That's just for ease, isn't it? To keep track of it. - Yeah. - I mean, it's kind of like, I mean, it's past, but you can enjoy each part. I mean, I don't even call it a part, it's an episode number, right? And you can enjoy each episode by itself. And then there are also people who are just like, are like totally ingrained in like the trash taste law, whatever the fuck that is.

Like I go into our subreddit sometimes and I'm just like, man, the amount of layers that new like viewers would have to understand just to get this one meme is fucking ridiculous. - We literally have a chronological order and like a fucking like law order.

- No, it's watching order and chronological order. - 'Cause like the Trash Taste Law, like watching our subreddit goes beyond just our channel now. It's just like everyone we've ever interacted with is now part of the Trash Taste Law. - True.

- It's hilarious. - I find it impressive how people have just been able to create this like, 'cause it's not even logically laid out. People just have this unwritten understanding that, okay, yeah, this is part of the Trash Taste law and part of the Trash Taste group. - The only other group I've seen this dedicated is people who are into the Nasuverse, right?

- It's just like, wow, just call me out, Joey. Call me out like that. - It's the fate. - It's the fate. - Yeah, it's like, they're fucking pulling it from like literally nowhere that has anything to do with anything being like, well, I mean, Garnt did say this thing on this like tiny like YouTubers podcast like six years ago. I'm pretty sure this has a connection somewhere to one of these episodes. - It's weird, man. It feels like the first time on YouTube where people like actively care about what I'm doing.

- Like, isn't that sounds strange? Before I just felt like no one gave a shit what I was up to. - Right. - I just do my own thing. But now I feel like people actually like watch when I do something. I'm like, whoa, this is weird. - Well, that's the thing. It's like, I've noticed that whenever I go onto the subreddit, it's like half of these posts have nothing to do with the actual Trash Taste episodes. It's like, it's either drawn from like someone's Twitter or someone's Twitch or a guest's Twitter or a guest's Twitch. Or like a friend of one of the hosts.

- What? - That's kinda cool though. - I mean, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. - It's dope as fuck. - I just find it really interesting that it became like that. - I find it really interesting that people are able to follow along with this, even though there's like, there's no fucking coherent watch order. Like we've gone to the point where you can watch every episode of "Trash Taste" and still not understand everything going on in the subreddit, right? 'Cause then you have to follow our content, you have to follow other people's content, other people's Twitter. And I'm just like, God,

- I fucking damn man, respect to you. - Yeah, honestly, it's cool. - I'm just so confused. I'm on this podcast and I don't know the law. I can't keep up with the shit that's going on.

- I don't know what's canon and what's not canon anymore. - Like what is canon, what is not canon? It's just, I just view it as one of the people in like the fucking law and I'm just like, damn man, what is going on right now? - I guess I did say or do that, I don't know. - Everyone's just calling me a VTuber simp now. That's all they call me now. - Yeah, that's been the hot meme.

We just dated this episode again by just saying that. Right now the big hot meme on the Trash Taste subreddit is Connor making every VTuber he interacts with into a Connor sink, essentially.

Which is hilarious because you were the, I've seen this fucking screenshot everywhere whenever someone mentions that like, you're the VTuber Sim now being like, this is one screenshot that just says, I don't understand VTubers. - I still kind of don't. - Meanwhile every VTuber is like, well, I understand you. - Yeah, I don't know. I really enjoy collaborating with VTubers and talking to them. I think mainly from the aspect of like, you know,

particularly care about the character themselves or who they're playing. I think just as a content creator myself, I've had it really interesting what it takes to play a character like that permanently. And it's normally, when you talk to the VTubers, if I talk to them offline, you normally get some really interesting

bits of information just about how, you know, how they like prepare or how they think about it. And I just find that really fascinating. And then I think, you know, when you're collaborating with, um,

I don't know why, I think there's a really interesting dynamic that you can work off really well if it's one VTuber and one like IRL person. Where, although I think a lot of maybe diehard VTuber fans would think like, no, never. - 3D and 2D do not mix. - I think there is some really interesting room for like really fun and interesting collaborations that come across because of the 2D, 3D,

- I completely agree because like, I kind of remember when Ladybeard was on like a few, now a few weeks ago, I guess. But I remember like hearing his story and hearing how he goes about, you know, his character and his stage presence and everything like that. I was just like, yeah, I kind of think VTubers, I said VTubers were wrestling with waifus. And after talking to Ladybeard, I'm just like,

- Yeah, I kind of agree with myself more now. - Cognitive dissonance. I found something that proves my point. Thus it is correct. No, I do agree. I mean, I spoke to plenty of VTubers and you hear so many different reasons as why they became VTubers like, "Oh, I just wanted easy money."

"Oh, I really, really like this character." Or, "I can't do anything with my face, I'm too anxious." Everyone has their own reason and it's really fucking cool to hear about that and get to know the people behind it sometimes. - I feel though, especially recently, maybe still in Japan, there might still be a thing of,

"Oh, you know, 2D and 3D shouldn't mix." You know, like IRL and VTuber should never do stuff together 'cause it breaks the immersion, blah, blah, blah. But I feel in the West, especially recently, I feel that idea is slowly starting to fade because especially, you know, if we look at like V-Shojo, right? Like they're doing a lot more like collaborations with IRL streamers. Like Nyanas did that whole thing where they did a tour of Japan, right? And that was IRL. And I think,

Just yesterday, as of this episode, Anthony Padilla did like a, I spent a day with VTube. - Yeah, yeah. - They had like a bunch of VTubes. - They actually had a clip of Trash Taste of the Cali episode on that video. - Oh really? - Yeah. - Yeah, and I just feel like at least in the West,

Sure, there still might be a lot of diehard VTuber fans who don't want that illusion to be broken or whatever. But I feel the majority of them are kind of just like, well, I mean, let's not kid ourselves, right? Like these are also people. And I think it's cool to see this like really

two different worlds completely clashing with one another in a really cool way. - 'Cause like, I will say like, I have been watching less VTubers as like 2021 has rolled around. Part of the reason of that is the anime has gotten really, really good again. So I've just had less time. - Sorry, scripted waifus. - Back to the scripted ones.

But also it's less that I've just been watching less VTubers, but I've just been watching more streamers in general now. And not even watching streams, but watching like the stream highlights and the stream content that has been posted on YouTube. Because I feel like there is a definite difference between Hololive and Vshojo, right? 'Cause I feel like Vshojo are Vtubers who are streamers. And I feel like Hololive is definitely more like treated as idols. - Yeah.

What I found is that I kind of more gravitated towards seeing Vtubers as content creators. Like I just respect them as content creators more than anything. And like, you know,

- I've never understood idol anime or like the idol kind of industry itself. So that's why I've gravitated more towards VTubers. So I think I just like beyond anything, I just talented content creators and just do good content. - And I think that's might be one of the bigger reasons why nowadays I'm watching a lot of streamers from Nijisanji because

- Again, like it's not so much, they kind of treat their VTubers again, like streamers, like actual content creators because they don't, they're not really seen. I'm sure there are people who view Nijisanji VTubers as idols, quote unquote, but I feel just been in like a lot of live streams of all sorts of different Nijisanji creators. They're definitely a lot more just like,

just people like streamers and content creators who are just here to have, you know, just shoot the shit and just have a fun time. And like, yeah, again, like I feel there's like a different type of enjoyment to that as well as, you know, how Hololive is kind of seen in that sense. And like, I'm not saying one is better than the other personally, but I just think it's like a really interesting dynamic because

People just think, oh, if you're a VTuber, you're immediately like whole life or you're immediately like V Shoujo. Like you just kind of thrown into this like single basket of you are this type of content creator with this type of fan base. When in reality it's very, very different depending on how you, I guess, treat your character. - Yeah. - It's kind of weird. - You know, even in Hololive, even in the Hololive agency itself, there are like a lot of,

a lot of streamers in Hololive are doing like very, very different content. But I think the difference is now that 2020 was the year of the VTuber or Hololive's year, right? - It's just like, there'll be like the Zodiac. - The year of the VTuber. - I mean, it kind of was. - I'm year of the VTuber. - I mean, 2020 was the year of the VTuber. - Yeah, it doesn't feel like the hype is, I mean, obviously the viewership is still there,

but I think that the craze that was there is definitely- - The growth, yeah. - It's definitely gonna be harder to grow as a VTuber, even in an agency like Hololive now because there's so much competition out there. - It's like the gold rush is already like- - Yeah, the golden age is kind of over, right? - Yeah, and I think this year has really, for me, separated like,

not just VTubers, but streamers who are doing like really, really interesting content and just interesting ideas versus, you know, a VTuber who, you know, doesn't like, doesn't put as much thought into that content maybe and just, you know, I was trying to find a way, a nice way to work that. - The good ones from the bad, is what I was trying to say. - No, not the good ones from the bad, but just the ones who- - The stronger ones. - The ones who really view this as like,

as content and just like as an entertainment platform. - And not just as like a gimmick, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 'Cause I feel like the gimmick part is over now. The gimmick era is over. And if you want to grow as a VTuber now, you need to have solid content. - Right, and I think it's because like, you know, the idea of VTubing as a gimmick now is just so,

just common knowledge now that whenever a new VTuber comes out, not as many people are like, "Oh my God, did you see this? "It's like a virtual person on my stream right now." Everyone knows what a VTuber is now.

I'm just so curious about where this is gonna go. 'Cause I think there's like, we're in a good spot right now where it's I feel like it's in like the middle period, if you will. - Yeah. - Where like everything's pretty chill, everything's all good. - Yeah. - I'm really interested to see how the community in general will handle things like, all right, what if a VTuber wants to quit? What if a VTuber wants to be an art, like show their face and just start streaming like that? - Yeah.

when these stuff, 'cause this hasn't happened yet. Like can anyone, do you know of any VTubers who've been like, "Yeah, fuck the VTuber." Like big VTubers have been like, "Fuck this, I'm gonna show my face and do normal streaming." - Probably the one that comes to mind is Kizuna Ai, the original one. - Right. - Yeah. - But that's different though, I feel like. - I mean, she wasn't considered like a streamer. Like she wasn't a new gen. You're talking about like new gen VTubers, right? - Like the VTubers right now, right? - Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of new VTubers who have quit.

for no reason. - Well, I wonder if it's no reason or NDAs have been signed, you can't say. - Well, no, actually there was one where she openly was like,

I'm quitting just because I found something else to do. Like it's nothing like I have no bad blood or anything. And I can say that contractually. I just want to quit because I have something new to do. And everybody in that fan base took it really, really well. They were like, well, it's going to suck that you're going to go, but at least all your old content is still here. Right? Like good luck, bro. Kind of thing. But yeah. - Yeah. - Well, that's good. I mean, obviously,

- At some point I can imagine that 'cause there's agencies and agencies aren't always the best, right? There's probably gonna be a messy breakup if you will at some point, right? - Oh, I mean, there has been in the past, but I mean, obviously I don't wanna get into that shit. - I didn't even know about that. - I know all the messy breakups that have happened, yeah, because of agency stuff. But a lot of that is like, it's kind of just like, well, I mean, it's an agency we're dealing with

they're trying their best to sweep everything under the rug. I think I didn't even want to deal with that shit to be honest with you. - Let's not dig that stuff up. - Yeah, let's not dig that stuff up. It's their problem. - Fuck it. - I won't ask. - Yeah, 'cause like I'm just interested to see how the, I mean, I guess how the industry grows, right? - It's so new, right? Is it gonna be VTuber apology videos?

If so, will there be a deep sigh? Will they look into the camera? These are the things I wanna know. I feel like it's like re-watching YouTube evolve, but on like 10 times speed. It's so new and nothing's been defined. The rules aren't set in stone. Everyone's kind of doing their own thing and it's like the wild west right now. I just love watching it and just hearing about it

and just it's so fascinating for that reason. And like I said, I don't really watch VTubers. I watch my friends 'cause I'm like, you know, gotta support your friends. - Yeah. And 'cause like one thing that I always think about and one reason why I could like never be a VTuber myself is I think about it and like part of,

part of like what I love about being a YouTuber and making content where people know who I am is being able to meet fans and being able to meet people at conventions and stuff like that. And I just think, I just think, you know,

especially with conventions and AX stuff and every public meeting canceled last year and possibly this year as well. I'm sad because like, I don't get to get the, what's the word I'm looking for? - Interaction. - I don't get to get the interaction because at the end of the day, like there's looking at numbers means nothing to me, right? Meeting the people and meeting the fans, a lot of times it resets,

it reminds me the reason why I do this and why I love doing this. - Like months of stress can be like wiped out by like one week, a weekend of just meeting fans. - Yeah. - 'Cause like, I don't know, man. It's just like, it's- - It's so wholesome. - It's like, it's a rewarding experience that you'll like, it's just, it's so unique. - It gives you something tangible.

for like the work that you've done. And I just think, man, I can't imagine being a YouTuber, a VTuber and just never being able to meet fans like in person. - Like knowing there's so many people who like love you and what you do and love everything about you. And you can never say like- - There is like weirdly no better feeling than just like minding your own business, going out and then someone stopping you on the street being like, I fucking love you. - Yeah, exactly.

- That sounds weird out of context, but I have had fan relationships like that.

- Yeah, but like as a VTuber, no one knows what you look like, right? Unless you open your mouth. - Or even in some universe where you could meet fans, like they would expect you to be this character. Do they actually like you or do they like this character you're playing? It's a weird dynamic that I can't imagine myself having. - But I guess we appreciate that, right? There's some VTubers out there that are probably like, the last thing they ever wanna do is meet anyone.

- Right. - Which I get, you know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And I feel we can say that, you know, we might not be able to experience that and, oh, it's sad that they can't experience that because, you know, because we've experienced, you know, fans coming up to us and liking us and praising us for who we are and how we show ourselves. But, you know, I mean, I don't know. There might be some VTubers out there who have probably never experienced that, right? So they probably don't even,

- They just know the joy of that. They just think, well, of course the only fan interactions I'm gonna have is people who like my character and that's fine. - You're fucking 10 years old. - You're the most mature one here, Garnt. - Sorry, I just completely ruined your speech. You're the same person that like plays Pokemon and is like, they said pee-pee. - Pee-pee up. - Pee-pee up.

- No, but like, you know, because I feel if a VTuber went from traditional YouTubing where they get that kind of fan experience to then go onto VTubing and get a completely different type of fan experience, then sure, you know, there might be like, oh fuck. Well, I mean, this fan interaction is cool, but it's not,

the same kind of gratification I got when it was just me in front of a camera. But to a lot of these VTubers, they don't know any better. So they're probably just like, well, yeah, of course, people like me for my character and they probably don't give a shit for me. I feel it's the same as people going up to voice actors and actresses

and being like, I love you because you played this character. - Yeah. - Right? I feel it's the exact same thing. It's like to them, they're probably expecting that. - Yeah. It's weird because I obviously look at this as a con from a content creators perspective. And you know, if I did ever get the chance to give you that, if I did ever get the chance to meet any VTubers that I really liked, I would like just wanted to say, hey, love the fucking content you're doing. I also find it really fascinating

the kind of like mindset you have to be to be this kind of content creator, right? Because it's such a different field from what we're doing. I don't know. It just, it's just really interesting to me. - Yeah. Is this what it feels like when like a parent is like, I don't get this whole YouTubing thing, but it must be very difficult. I could never see myself doing it.

- No, I mean, that's why I really respect streamers 'cause they do something that I find fucking difficult to do. Like, I don't know how- - And I'm sure it's vice versa for the streamer. - Yeah, I don't know how you go home and stream sometimes, Connor. I'm just like, I go home, I'm done. I am- - I sleep. - Yeah, I don't know how you go home and sleep, Connor. Look at you, you just go, I don't know. I like it, it's fun. I don't know, I like talking. - It seems fun. It seems like the streamer

'cause the streaming sphere right now seems like it's just fun. It just seems like you get more chances to really collaborate and make friends as well, which is one thing I'm really jealous about. - I don't know if it's 'cause I'm paying more attention to streaming. It just seems like it's in a really good place right now. - I think it is. - I think it is. - It's funny 'cause I think streaming is in a really good place. I think Twitch is like,

- We've complained about YouTube. - My God, Twitch as a platform, Jesus Christ. - Yeah, it is almost just from how I see it, it seems like it's almost fucking impossible to grow on Twitch as like someone who's coming from nothing.

- Yeah. - Do you guys know, why are all the VTubers on YouTube? Why is it mostly at least Japanese ones? Why are they all on YouTube? - Because YouTube, I feel, I mean, this is just my guess, but I feel it's because YouTube to a Japanese audience is a lot more well-known than Twitch is. I feel Twitch, I mean, not to say that there aren't massive Japanese streams on Twitch, there are, and some of them pull insane fucking numbers, but I feel it's just two completely different worlds.

- This is just my guess, but I feel for a regular Japanese viewer of content online, you stick only to one website and that's it. - Yeah. - Whereas like,

I feel it's like if you're a YouTube watcher, you are exclusively a YouTube watcher. If you're a Twitch watcher, you're a Twitch watcher. If you're a Nico Nico watcher, you're only on Nico Nico. Whereas I feel that same mentality doesn't work for a Western viewer. A Western viewer will be like, well, yeah, I'm gonna watch some content on YouTube. - I get where the content is. - But yeah, but I can also go onto Twitch if I want to. - Yeah, I guess so.

- Yeah, I mean, for me, I'd hardly watch any Twitch at all on the Twitch platform, but I think what's becoming more common now is like Twitch and YouTube are becoming more and more intertwined where like a lot of some of the most popular content and some of the most original content as well right now has been Twitch highlights. And that's why I've grown way more of an appreciation for Twitch. Like I still spend very little time on the platform as a consumer, but I end up consuming a lot of Twitch content.

on YouTube, which is why I think like one of my favorite content creators right now is probably Ludwig, where he's just doing like the subathon that he's doing right now is fucking insane. - Definitely over by now. - Hopefully it's over by now. My God. - I was like, are you gonna like,

- Is that when the subathon ends? - Sleeping on camera is like one of the most bizarre things for me to like think about doing. - Do we wanna explain who Ludwig is and what he's doing? - Ludwig used to be very big in the Smash community. Then moved to streaming and just became like an instant hit streaming. He's very funny, very naturally charismatic. - He's just a natural born entertainer. - Yeah. And he did a thing where every sub

it adds 10 seconds, I believe. - Something like that. - So every time someone subscribes to his Twitch channel, 10 seconds get added. And it went up to like, you know, 70 hours at one point. - So the big difference is that he made, normally in a subathon, you cap the number of hours that you can possibly stream for a time. He made the stream uncapped. And I think right now he's been streaming for over a week continuously. - It's like two weeks, I think. - Is it two weeks? - Yeah, yeah. - And then he just sleeps on stream. And that's something to me that I'm like, dude, what if I just like,

- I like say things in my sleep. - I don't know what you say in your sleep. I don't wanna know. - Listen, listen, listen. I don't say anything bad, but what if it's the one day where I say something bad? Does it count if you're racist in your sleep? Does that count? - When you have that one racist nightmare.

- What if you're listening to that GTA clip, all the mods of it where they say the thing in a bit. What if you go to bed and then you just say it out loud when you're sleeping? Can you be canceled for being racist in your sleep? - I don't know. - Okay, okay. - If that actually happened, would you be canceled if someone said the thing in their sleep?

- Depends if you're a VTuber or not. VTubers are just like, that word is just like free game. - Yeah, exactly. - Every VTuber has that pass for some reason, especially if they're Japanese. - What if you're a white guy, Ludwig's sleeping and then he's sleep talking and he says that, do you get canceled? - God, there's a part of me that says, that's ridiculous, of course not. And then another part of me is like, no, he would definitely get canceled.

- Can you be canceled for your dreams? - That's like some George Orwell shit, dude. - Do you have control over what they say about you? If you say a racist thing in your dream, are you racist? - I'm about to make a dream twit longer.

- The cyber dream police. - Wait till it happens. It's gonna happen and no one's gonna fucking know how to deal with it. - Oh my God. I'm just imagining like the plot of "Inception". Instead of like putting in an ID, you just go in the dream just to cancel them in the dream. - They'll be like two camps. They'll be like the camp that believes like, you know, okay, well he just said in his dream. There'll be another thing like, I bet he's secretly awake and said it. 'Cause he's racist.

- Nobody says that in this scene. - Nobody would ever say that. - Unless he's awake. - She's awake and racist. This is a really weird tangent. I just thought like, you know. - I think it's a very valid thought experiment, though. - I think it's a very valid thought. - I would never do I ever, ever wanna say bad words like that.

- Like to all respect, how the fuck was that the first thing you thought of when you saw someone sleeping on stream? - What I see when I see sleeping through stream as a content creator, I just think like everything could go wrong. What if I shit myself in my sleep? - Everything can be taken out of context. - What if I do a rip, an absolute massive fart, like the wettest thing, just like any of the stuff that like could reasonably happen in sleep that is totally normal, not being racist in your sleep. I don't know if that's normal. Probably isn't.

- Not that I would know. - And like he takes his shirt off when he was sleeping. And you know, what if you just like, 'cause you know sometimes you fucking throw the sheets off or something when you're sleeping. - Oh yeah, you sleep naked as well, don't you? - Well, I obviously, I mean it depends. - What if I just like pop a nut

- You're lying down, you got a morning wood, big, big boner. Right on stream, 4K. You get banned for that? I'm just literally thinking, the stuff that you would never ever think would ever happen normally when you're sleeping, you just suddenly become like, this is my number one worry now.

- Honestly, it is valid. It is valid. - I mean, there's a lot of things you don't think about. - 'Cause you can't control it, you know? - Yeah, there's a lot of things, because with YouTube, we could easily edit stuff out if we said something. - Just wanna say, if I shat myself, I would own it, by the way. - On the street? - Yeah, I would shit.

- I feel like the possibly the worst thing that could happen on stream when you're sleeping is that you just utter a racist word. I'm just thinking, yeah. - Would you rather utter a racist word asleep or shit yourself? - I'd rather shit myself. - I'd rather shit myself. - Are you kidding me? Shit yourself on stream? That's great content. - You're not gonna get canceled for that. If anything, you will be immortalized on the internet as the one dude.

- Who shit farted himself in his sleep. - Think about the amount of subs you'd get for shitting yourselves on stream. Let's be honest. - I could just see it, you know, you say something racist, you end up on Fox being like, "Liberals are trying to cancel this man "for being racist in his sleep." - Oh my God, I'm just imagining, what if like a VTuber shit themselves on stream? Can you imagine the super chat for that? - No, it would be like, "I'm weirdly turned on, here's 500 bucks." - It's like, "Thanks for that, I needed that." - Oh my God.

- How do we, we've gone on this a really weird tangent. - How about the sub-a-thon? - How about the sub-a-thon? I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm like talking about watching, yeah, I was talking about like watching him sleep and just like the chat going crazy and stuff like that. I watch it and I'm like weirdly engrossed, not because he's sleeping, just because of like the reaction itself of like how active this chat is, right? And I'm just like, man, this is literally just the Truman Show.

- We are watching the Truman Show happen to us. - But he can't leave his room. At least in the Truman Show, he could walk around. - Yeah, that's true. But I mean, this is kind of like the closest we've had to the Truman Show and it's fascinating. - It's a fucking Black Mirror episode. - It is. - It's fucked. - I mean, it's fascinating. - Yeah, but it's also like, I just find it really weird that I don't know what the mentality of people is where like you watch this dude sleeping on stream and then you think to yourself,

I'm gonna drop a hundred subs while he's asleep. 'Cause like normally, you know, I'd like to think if I dropped a hundred subs, I would want him to be like, yo, thanks for the hundreds. Like at least a tiny bit of recognition from the person who I'm subbing it to. But it's just like, he's not gonna see this.

- At all. I'm gonna just drop 500 bucks just like that, just because I can. It's like, I don't know. I don't know what the mentality of it is. 'Cause like I've given subs- - I don't think anyone does at this point. - Right, because like I've gifted subs before on stream, right? On like other people's chats or whatever, but like,

you know, dropping a hundred subs on a dude who's fucking asleep. It's like, what are you like, what goes through your head to be like, yeah, I'm gonna do that. - I mean, I think it's just being part of like this experience, right? Because I feel like this is, you feel like the thing about Twitch that, you know, I kind of understand is like, you do feel like you're being a part of something bigger than yourself, right? And I feel like, especially like,

obviously he didn't think it would be this successful, but it was a fucking genius move. - Oh yeah, absolutely. - Oh, what was it like one day in he made like $150,000 or something. So even just like, I know he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who gives a fuck money. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But I mean, fair play. - Yeah, but there's also a part of me where it's like, I just threw away my humanity for $150,000, right? - Hey fuck, sign me the fuck up. - Are you kidding me?

- Film every part of my life for $150,000. - Bro, I will shit myself for $150,000. - I will poop myself on stream for $100,000. - Any billionaires wanna- - Trash Tay shitting special, let's go. - Any billionaires wanna fund this? - The next Trash Tay's live stream, look out for one of us shit farting live on Twitch.

- Jesus Christ. - I just thought of like the most cursed content I can think of. - What? - You just lock people in the room and just see who shits themselves first. - They can't go to the toilet. - That's Mr. Beast's video. - Yeah, I think that's Mr. Beast's video. - It's like last person to shit themselves wins a million dollars. - It's like Survivor just with shit. - Jimmy, I just gave you a fantastic idea, bro. You don't have to give me credit for that.

- Oh my God, where do we go from here? - I don't know, man. I just find it fascinating where it's like, you see a content creator like Ludwig on Twitch where he's just fucking doing something that is not exactly the most unique thing, but it's also that one thing where it's like, well, I wouldn't fucking do it, so obviously no one's gonna do it. But I'm just like, when it gets to this point of like, yeah, I've been streaming for two weeks straight, can it go up from there? What's gonna be the next thing

- Because everyone's gonna be waiting for the next subathon. - Right. - And it's just gonna be even longer, right? - Yeah. - No, please no. - I don't think there'll be a subathon that'll be as popular as this because he was the first one who did it. - Unless he does it again.

- I mean, even if he does it again, I feel like the hype wouldn't be as big because it's, unless, I don't know. - Unless it prematurely fizzles out. - Yeah. - Right? Where it's like, oh, what? - I don't even know when this one's gonna end yet. - Right. - So who the fuck knows? I mean, it's,

It's kind of like, do you remember Twitch Plays Pokemon? - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I was actually about to say, right? 'Cause like the last time I saw this phenomenon was during Twitch Plays Pokemon. - Yeah, that's the kind of shit I'm gonna be telling my kids about. Like honestly, I enjoyed the Twitch Plays Pokemon experience so fucking much. - Hey, son, remember that time when Twitch played Pokemon? - No doubt.

The Ludwig thing is like, it's like Twitch plays Pokemon, but instead of an algorithm that's just reading the chat, it's literally just a dude reading everything in the chat being like, okay, left, down, up. - So to explain Twitch plays Pokemon, like this was how many years ago now?

- Five or six years ago, maybe. - Five or six years ago where someone made like someone like- - It was an Australian dude, actually. - It was an Australian dude. So basically someone made a program that would allow the Twitch chat to play a full game of Pokemon, right? So I think it was Pokemon Red that was played. And basically the chat could put in their inputs

- And whatever inputs were put in would be inputted into this emulator that would be played live in front of like- - So if you typed in left in chat and then entered it, then the program would in order go left. But the trick is there was literally what like-

- 50,000, 100,000 plus people watching and chatting. - And chatting at the same time. - So it's like giving the Game Boy to 100,000 people at once and being like, finish this game. - Yeah, and it's one of the few times where the word social experiment actually meant social experiments, right? - It reminds me of, I saw a clip the other day, it was like, if the moon landing happened with Twitch chat and then they were like, literally just put like an overlay and it's like, "Bog, Bog is landing."

- It's such a good video. And I imagine how much more hype would the moon landing be with a bunch of pogs. - Oh dude, I would absolutely be pogging you to chat. - This video is sponsored by Liquid IV. - When you push your body hard or just feel run down, it's extremely important to stay hydrated. Making hydration a priority helps us feel healthier on a day-to-day basis. With one stick of Liquid IV in 16 ounces of water, you get two to three times

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- Well, today with us we have lemon, lime and strawberry, which this one on hangovers, they taste amazing. They get you hydrated. This is what you need. - Liquid IV is so effective because of their cellular transport technology. I am not qualified to know what that means, but I feel very refreshed and hydrated after I have a stick. - So you can grab your Liquid IV in bulk nationwide at Costco, or you can get 25% off when you go to liquidiv.com and use code TRASHTASTE

at checkout. That's 25% off anything you order when you get better hydration today using promo code [email protected]. - Remember bros, keep yourself hydrated. Back to the episode. I would love to see sporting events with Twitch chat. Like, can you imagine how fun the Olympics would have been if it was streamed on Twitch? - Well, it's funny if you say that because I recently, someone in my Twitch chat notified me of this Twitch channel that streams the Sumo on Twitch.

And dead ass there are people every time one of the wins, there is dead ass just a stream of pog. That happens and I'm just like, this is weird that people are pogging a sumo wrestler right now. - Fucking professional backseat is coming out being like, you know, I sumo wrestled for 10 years. You know, this technique's pretty fucking lackluster. - Here's how I would have optimized that match. - Honestly, this is just sloppy behavior. Dude, I saw a clip that popped up on my YouTube as well. And it was like,

Twitch chat goes crazy about car stopping. - What? - And it was just like a camera that's watching a street with a stop sign. - Yeah. - And people- - Like a security camera footage. - Yeah, yeah. And they're just streaming it. And you see Twitch chat in the corner and no one stops the stop sign. But then one car stops with a stop sign and Twitch chat goes fucking crazy.

I'm just like, who's watching this? Why is there hundreds of people watching this going crazy? - That's really funny. - I feel like it's the equivalent of, do you remember the DVD logo on like, on like the DVD screen saver? And then like it hitting the corner. Actually, is there a stream of that? - There probably will be. - I bet there would be a stream of that. - I guarantee there is a stream of that. - 'Cause I can imagine when the DVD thing hits the corner, Twitch chat.

- The amount of pogs in chat, man. The amount of pogs in chat. - Every time it's so close, it's like, oh, Monkus. - But no, like, yeah, going back to Twitch Plays Pokemon, like part of the amazing experience of that was being like being part of something bigger. And I just loved the lore that came out of Twitch Plays Pokemon, right? - What lore? - You weren't on the subreddit and everything like that? - I wasn't on the subreddit, no. - Okay, so. - There's like factions forming against each other, you know?

and stuff like that. - Really? - Yeah, yeah. So what happened is, you know, it was a random game played by Twitch chat or not randomly. It was like a game played by a lot of people and a lot of random things happened. And out of this randomness, like the community just created a kind of storyline. They created a narrative out of the chaos that was happening, right? - Of course they did. - And so we're going full circle now 'cause an entire law was created out of the chaos and the randomness that was happening on Twitch Plays Pokemon.

Right, and so,

like people got invested in this narrative. People got super, super fucking invested in this lore. - The Helix fossil. - The Helix fossil, right? - Oh, I mean, yeah. I know that's where like the whole like Lord Helix meme came from. - Yeah, yeah. - But like that's the extent I know of it. - Yeah, and then there was like, you know, they wanted more, some people, like half people wanted more order and half people wanted the chaos. - Yeah. - And there was just like arguing and stuff. And it was quite interesting. - Yeah, the only thing I remember from Twitch players Pokemon is, well, they eventually finished it.

I think they released this starter within like the first, I think like hour or something. - Yeah. - People were trying to sabotage. - Yeah, people were trying to sabotage it. And then obviously the whole world Helix thing.

But other than that, like, I don't know. At first when I heard about it, I was like, oh, I have to fucking go onto this and participate in some way, right? Like, I feel like I gotta be part of this history. The moment I went in and the chat is moving so fucking fast where it just looks like a blur. I'm like, nevermind, I'm good. - I typed in the command and I was like, wow, I didn't see it.

- Yeah, exactly. I was trying to catch it being like, well, I didn't see it. Fuck it, whatever. - No, 'cause like, I mean, there was like so many epic moments created out of the most mundane situations. Like I remember there was this one ledge that took like fucking eight hours to cross or something like that.

And it was like the most epic ledge of all time. I think I watched that collectively for like three hours, at least on my own time. And you know, we talk about what is the mentality of people watching someone sleeping? And I'm just like, wait a minute, I just watched three hours of this video game character trying to cross the fucking ledge. I can't act like I'm better than anyone else 'cause I fucking did that as well. - Oh my God.

- We need like a category of competitive gaming where it's like a team does like everyone gets one button on either game. - Oh my God. - Like Dark Souls, but everyone gets one button each. - Well, actually one of my friends, they're like a couple streamer and they do split control secure. So one of them is on the mouse and the other is on the keyboard and they beat the whole game on split controls. And I'm just like, this is the type of shit that's like,

Why would you subject yourself to this pain? I can barely play Sekiro with both of my own hands, let alone having the fucking courage. And also like they managed to beat the whole game without getting mad at one another. I'm like, that's not how it works. - Scripted. - Yeah, scripted, fake. - What's wrong with you, Joey? - What is wrong with you two?

- Have you seen that one Twitch streamer who like plays League of Legends with the most random inputs? - Is it Ross Boone? - I don't remember, but I remember. - Like bananas? - Yeah, like League of Legends using bananas as inputs. - Yeah, I think it's not that difficult 'cause you just need something that, 'cause there's only like really like four major buttons. So you just need to have something that takes four inputs. You can literally do that with anything. - Right, right, right.

- But I mean, that's why I think I've been watching more stream content right now because I think to me as a YouTube creator, we watch a lot of YouTube and I feel like we can definitely see the formula of good content on YouTube. And it's rare nowadays that I look at a YouTube video and I'm like, wow, that is, you're doing something really original right now.

'Cause I mean, we had a few years ago where MrBeast completely revolutionized the platform. And now it just feels like he's the one coming up with the original ideas. MrBeast like head and shoulders above the rest. And I feel like he's someone who is, one was someone who understood the platform and two now has the resources to do the craziest ideas that literally no one else can even think of doing. Like who the fuck just makes a fucking burger chain for content?

- Like who else can do that? - When I saw that video myself feed, I was like, it's a rap guys. Like he just won the game. - Yeah. - It's kinda crazy. - Yeah. Like, you know, there's not to say there's people not doing good content on YouTube, but the amount of original ideas you can put on YouTube, I feel like there's a lot less now because one, someone with bigger resources and is like probably smarter than you is probably doing it. And two,

- I feel like a lot of the original content I see is now on Twitch. And I don't know if that's just because I'm not being recommended the right videos on YouTube.

- Yeah, I definitely do just think that right now we're kind of in like a golden age of like Twitch creativity. Like there is just so many ideas that people thought would be like either too much effort or wouldn't reap the benefits of doing it live because there was just so much room for error. But now people have gotten to the point and there's enough people I feel now on Twitch that

there's at least one person who's gonna be like, this might be risky for a lot of different reasons, but I'm gonna just try it and see if it lands. And a lot of the times it does land in ways that no one was really expecting me like, oh, you can do that on Twitch and it'd be really fucking successful. Well then I'm gonna try and do it too. And it's just like,

I don't know, I feel it's just like feeding the creativity to more and more streamers being like, oh, you know, I feel like we're past that point of just get in front of a camera and just start playing a game. - Yeah, we're way past that. - I don't know if you were ever like watching Twitch when this is a thing, like marbles was like a huge thing at one point.

- Marbles? - What? - Yeah, like watching a bunch of marbles go down a course and like seeing which one won. - Like Rude Goldberg machines or like- - No, just like Chuck. It was like, there was like simulations of like marbles and people would like bet on the marbles. Like I think Ludwig did this as well. - Oh, I think Tectone did it as well. - Yeah, it's like you just, you can assign things to like the balls and then you just let all these balls go down and whichever one wins you like, you know. - Is that kind of like salty bets?

- I don't know what that is. - Salty Bets is, I'm not on 100% sure about this, but I believe someone made a like a program, right? Where they pitted two characters against each other in a fighting game. I'm not sure what the fighting game was. - I know what you're talking about. 'Cause they have like fucking Sonic going against like Chun-Li or something. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I know what you're talking about. - Yeah. - No, it's not like that. - And people would be betting on the winner even though it was a completely AI battle.

- Right. - No, it's just like the streamer, I can't remember exactly 'cause I never watched it fully 'cause I was pretty confused. - I think it's like- - They were like reacting to like these marbles in virtual like games going down. It was really bizarre. - It's like horse race betting but like- - Well, yeah, but like I find that like stuff like that does well on Twitch chat when you're overreacting

- Well, I mean, that's the whole reason why at one point, or I mean, I would argue still to this day, people love watching people do Gacha on stream, right? Because it's like people losing their shit to PNGs. It's like, well, of course I'm gonna watch this. This is ridiculous. - I'm gonna watch it and play a part of it as well. - I can say that because I've done Gacha on stream and I have overreacted and it's been fucking amazing. - Oh my God, I got some- - I got the waifu!

- It's the same philosophy, right? - Bro, it's just a PNG, bro. It's just a PNG. - It's just a PNG, man. - But then the amount of pogs I'm seeing in the chat is like saying otherwise. - No, because yeah, I guess to me, the one thing you get away you can do on Twitch or live streaming that you can't do with YouTube content is just really have this community aspect, right? And it's something that I feel is getting more and more like it's,

before it was seen as like YouTube comments are just the thing that comes after the content. It's the reaction to the content. But now like the comments itself and the reaction to the content that's being made is also part of the content itself. And that's what I see being like kind of like the future and the future of online content and how it's kind of evolving right now. At least that's how I see it. 'Cause there's like, even with like,

that have been put on YouTube. I feel like half the fun is lost if they don't have the Twitch chat on the content itself. - Yeah. - 'Cause you miss a lot of the context itself. And if it's just like a stream highlights without the Twitch chat itself, I feel like you're missing half of the content itself. - No, I absolutely agree. Like I feel a lot of it gets taken out of context where like, if you don't see the reaction, it doesn't seem as interesting

as it actually is. Like it's still epic. But when you see a Twitch chat on the screen going fucking crazy, you're like, oh, this is really epic. - Okay, this is an epic gamer moment right now. - I don't know if it's like placebo or whatever, but it's like the moment you see a hype Twitch chat,

suddenly you're like, well, I have to get hyped too, fuck. - 'Cause when you're watching on mobile, who the fuck has the chat open on the side? 'Cause it like squishes down. So it's like, I'm not gonna fucking watch this shit with the chat box. - Just put it on the stream and then that way it's best viewing experience as well. - Yeah, I mean like, what? I mean, I don't watch Twitch on the phone most of the time.

- I mean, sometimes I wanna watch Twitch and I'm- - I watch it every now and then. Like if I'm on the train somewhere, it's just saying like, oh, someone's streaming or whatever. - Yeah, I guess, do you guys watch a lot of like Twitch and live streaming itself or do you watch the highlights? - I mostly just like jump into like one of my friends' streams. If they're streaming, just say hi. - Yeah, I normally watch my mates streaming. I'm just like, oh, so what are you up to? - I literally use it as an excuse to just catch up with my friends.

I could like message you on Twitter DMs or whatever, but like you're here right now. You're gonna respond to me. - I do watch highlights too. Just not as often. I still prefer normal YouTube videos on YouTube. - Right, right, right.

- Yeah, I mean, there's so much shit I gotta watch as well, like anime, and I love watching that. - Anime, what is that? - I know, right? Who doesn't know her? But yeah, I wanna keep doing all the things I like, so it's difficult to keep up with everything. - Yeah, it's kind of like there's just so much content that I wanna watch now and there's not enough time anymore.

- Yeah, tell me about it. - Literally can't get more first world problem than that. - There's just too much to do. What do I do? - There's too much content, man. Life sucks. In a good way. - In a good way, yeah, exactly.

- Okay, here's a question for you guys. When you watch YouTube and Twitch, do you feel like it's part of your job to watch it or do you- - No, no, I don't. I still feel like I'm back in 2013 watching my favorite content creators. The only thing that changes now is that, oh shit, they follow me maybe on Twitter. Maybe, they probably don't, but maybe. - I don't know, in a way to me, it kind of is. It's like half off for me because it's like,

there are some videos that just pop up in my recommended where I'm just like, this is so little to do with what I do for a job that it just becomes entertainment. But then there are parts of me which are like, I could like say, watch a video idea or a video that has this particular idea that I had no idea existed. And I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a part of me that thinks, oh, I wonder if I can use this idea that this video is using and kind of spin it in a way for my own content. It's like...

It's not so much like I'm going out onto YouTube, just trying to find the next idea or whatever. But sometimes there are some videos where it's just like, I could do that.

- But in like a kind of fun and unique way for myself. - Yeah, because I do that as well where I watch YouTube, I watch Twitch, I'm constantly looking for ways to improve my own content and seeing some things that I can maybe like, not one-on-one ripping someone off, but like taking an aspect and being like, I can put my own spin on that. - Right, like there have been moments where I've made entire videos based off ideas from like three or four completely unrelated videos and just kind of being like, I'll take,

this idea from this video and this idea from this completely separate video. And what do you know? I've come up with something kind of cool and unique that I can work off of as well, which is kind of unique and interesting to my audience. - Yeah, 'cause I think there's like, it's really looked down upon

I don't know if it's just the creative community or even like whenever with the audience as well, whenever you see something that kind of resembles someone else, you're just like, oh, you're just ripping off X or you're just ripping off Y. Whereas like, I don't know, like to me, like artists, like musicians and like, you know, movie makers, they're like really open about their influences. - Some of them wear the influences on their sleeves and people are just like,

- Cool. - Yeah, and I don't know why it's looked down upon in the YouTube space because everyone's exactly the same. Everyone's been influenced by someone else on the platform. And it's really like the rarer thing is finding someone who's completely fucking original. And like, even to me, some of the biggest content creators where I, in my mind, they were just like, they did something completely like,

completely original content, like for example, like Nakey Jakey, he's doing something very, very different from what other people are doing. Even he says, "Oh yeah, I'm kind of just like Jon Tron on a green screen and a exercise." - Yeah, I think he's just saying, "I'm just a shittier Jon Tron on an exercise." That's what he said in a video. And I'm like, I mean,

you know, you obviously like, it's so obvious you were influenced by JonTron, but it doesn't matter because you're putting your own spin on it in a unique way. You're putting your own personality on it where now this supposed thing you ripped off has just become you. - Yeah, yeah. - Right? - I mean, you know, I already give a shit if someone does one of my video ideas. - No.

you can 100% just take it. If you're gonna 100% take the idea, it would be nice to be like, "Oh yeah, I got this idea from this person." 'Cause if I blatantly copy a video, I'll just be like,

- Yeah, I mean like who was that person who just blatantly copied Mr. Beast for the longest time? - Morgz. - Morgz, that was it. I mean like on that level, it's so obvious that it's just kind of like a one-to-one copy. - Copy thumbnail title, it's a little much 'cause you might be fucking with things there, but like taking the video idea is like whatever I mean. - Right, I mean, I've seen a bunch of YouTubers who have done videos that I have come up with or I was known for.

but I've been okay with it because they've put their own spin on it where it's just kind of become like, well, I know where you got influenced from, but this has just become your video now. So I'm fucking okay with it. - Yeah, yeah. - If it was like one for one, like using the same type of thumbnail, using the same type of title, and then the content is almost one for one, and then you don't mention the person you got it from, then yeah, I'll be like, well,

that's a little bit shitty, isn't it? - Yeah, yeah. 'Cause like one of the biggest questions I get asked is like, how do I go about, like a new content creator is just like, how do I go about

How do I go about making original ideas and finding my own style? And like, I always say, you know what? I don't see any problem with just starting by copying some of your favorite creators, right? Because you will find your own style the more you do your own content, right? But it's not something that you immediately like,

it's not something that you immediately figure out. And even like some people do, but those are the rare, rare people. - Yeah, those are like the true geniuses. Not everyone on YouTube is a genius. - I think it should be fine for creators in our field to just do like where they influence on their sleeves and just be open about it. Like not completely copying, but like every like,

Everyone has their influences and everyone continues to evolve from different people they see on the platform. At least that's how it is with me. And I think it should be fine. I think everyone's being influenced with each other. - 'Cause everyone, I don't know a single YouTuber who doesn't watch YouTube.

- Exactly. - Like, I mean, that's the reason why we're here. - Yeah, I mean, you know, like I always get reminded of that Picasso quote, which is like good artists copy great artists steal. And like a lot of people like kind of take that quote completely out of context thinking like, well then I'll just fucking steal the thing. But like, I actually read up on why he said that and what he meant by that, which is,

a great artist steals in the sense that they take an influence and they turn it into something of their own. - Yeah, yeah. - And I feel that's very valid to any creative field, whether that be an artist or a movie producer or a YouTuber, right? Where it's like, you can get influenced by other people, but

you have to do it to the point where you put your own thing on it, where it becomes your own thing. - Yeah. - Right? And that's really hard to do. And you know, great artists steal, good artists copy, you know? - Yeah. - YouTubers who just copy an idea, but don't do anything creative with it,

are the ones that I just like, well, you're a fucking copycat on you. - I think one, oh, did you say something? - I never really thought about it much. I was just like, I just watch YouTube and make my videos. - We're getting awfully philosophical. - I'm just sitting here, I'm like, I make fucking stupid videos. It's kind of how I view it. I'm just like, all right, I'll just keep uploading the same shit. - I mean, yeah, I'm like that too, but you know, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a part of me that did think about that being like, oh God, I mean, this is a cool idea and I want to, you know,

incorporate and do it because it just seems like something fun to do. But I sometimes get worried being like, are people gonna come out and be like, how dare you steal this X and X's idea? - I think about stuff like that. And then I just also remember like some of the most popular videos are like pee-pee-poo-poo stinky.

and like that shotting sound effect. So the moment I try and get all like deep about it, I'm like, I don't think it's that deep. I think it's just people uploading stuff that makes them he, he XD. - Yeah. - I don't fucking know. - I mean, I do think you register it at least subconsciously. - Subconsciously, yeah. - I definitely do. - Yeah, because I feel like,

when people ask, how would you like, what does it take to become a successful YouTuber? A lot of the things that, well, the one thing a lot of- - People's boosting. - A lot of like the one thing that a lot of people don't mention is that step one, I feel like is to watch a lot of YouTube. - Yeah, of course. - Like, no, because I mean, you say of course, but I know people who don't watch too much YouTubers or if I'm just like name 10 to like name 10 to 20 YouTubers you're watching right now. - They see a YouTuber on the news, they're like, "Oh, I wanna be a YouTuber."

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel like not a lot of people talk about, a lot of YouTubers I know, they watch a fuck ton of YouTube, right? And it feels like there's so many subtle things that you can't really explain to someone unless they just understand the platform because they watch a fuck ton of YouTube. - And it's not just watching a fuck ton of YouTubers, it's watching a fuck ton of different YouTubers. - Yeah, yeah, exactly. - It's like, I could be like name 10 YouTubers and if all of them are the same type of content, then it's like, well,

you understand that type of content. Everything else is just a complete blank to you. You're probably not gonna go very far because you'll just be recycling the same content from those 10 YouTubers. - Or it's just like watching YouTubers who were popular like five years ago. - I still watch Ray William Johnson every day. - I strive to make my own equals three one day. - My day doesn't begin without Ray William.

And yeah, I just think the idea of like, yes, I would like to become a YouTuber because they are successful now and- - And they make lots of money for an easy job. - Yeah, yeah. And I feel like step one before you even consider becoming a YouTuber or a streamer is just to watch a fuck ton of things on that platform. - No, no, step one is delete your Twitter history.

- You don't wanna get canceled. - Then step two is watch it. - And privatize your Facebook, delete your Twitties. - Yeah, because I mean, that's how I feel about like Instagram and TikTok because I don't use those platforms and I'm not gonna try to grow on those platforms because I feel like

- Because you don't use it, right? - Because the first step is I don't understand it. So it's kind of like, to me, it's just like the hello fellow Instagrammers kind of thing. If I try to like- - You just turn into one of those corporate brands, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's like, yes, we understand you. - It's more picture of my food. That's what you all like, right? - Why aren't you liking it?

- Yeah, I mean, is there anything else you guys wanna talk about? - I don't know, man. YouTube can be deep, but it can also be poo-poo pee pee stinky. And I think that's what I've gotten out of today's episode. - What I've gotten out of today's episode is that I don't understand streaming content sometimes and that's why I watch it.

- Yeah, exactly, right? Like, you know, I feel a lot of the reasons why people watch a lot of YouTube and Twitch streaming and stuff like that for people who want to get into it is because they want to understand it, right? They want to grow greater appreciation towards it. I mean, that's why I watch it. - It just fucking fascinates me, man. - Oh dude, it's hella fascinating. - Twitch is fascinating to me now and that's why,

That's why it's probably the content that I'm watching the most right now. I know, until I understand it fully, I'm gonna keep watching it, I guess. - You get addicted, Garnt, to everything that you do. - Yeah, you do. You do tend to be like, "I like this one thing now, I'm gonna like it till the end of time." - Garnt will just come back and be like, "Guys, you won't believe it. I've just discovered this thing called mahjong."

And me and the boys at the r/majong have been talking about all the different strats. - I'm in this photo and I don't like it. - Where we've watched, I've watched the movies with the boys. And it's just like, all right, calm down. And you can't forget about Majong the week next. - Yeah, exactly. - That's pretty much me. Like I find I'm the kind of guy who finds it really easy just to fall into this one random rabbit hole. And then I reached the bottom of that rabbit hole and I'm just like, okay, time to find something new.

- Time to claw out of this one. - Literally the Toy Story meme of like, I'm done with you. - Yeah, I don't wanna play with you anymore. I don't know, yeah, that's me in a nutshell. And the thing is I'm so easily influenced. All it takes is just one random YouTube recommendation or one thing popping up on my Twitter to be like, I find this thing, this piques my curiosity. Let me look into this. And like a week later, I'm just like, guys, I have just consumed a week's worth of content on horse riding.

- Well no, your thing right now is fucking chug jug. That's what that shit is. And I'm just thinking to myself, like, I'll just let him talk because by next week he'll be talking about something else. He'll be done with this one rather shallow rabbit hole. - He'll get over it. - He'll get over it. - Just see me in a week guys. I've become a Fortnite gamer.

- I'm going to be a pro Fortnite gamer. - We can be pro Fortnite gamers. - But you know what I won't get over? Our patrons. - That's true, they're wonderful. Like this guy right here. - I absolutely love this guy. This is a rabbit hole I will never get out of.

- Please feel free to fall down the Trash Taste rabbit hole. There is definitely a Trash Taste rabbit hole. - Oh, absolutely. And if you want to support the show, make sure to go over to patreon.com/trashtaste. Also follow us on Twitter, fall down the Trash Taste rabbit hole on our subreddit. And if you hate our faces, listen to us on Spotify. - Yes, let's see how deep we can make this rabbit hole go. - I just want this, like the law on the Trash Taste subreddit to just get absolutely fucking out of control where it's like, they're just throwing in big YouTubers, like doing shit. Now it's like, he's...

Felix said the word trash. We have to add that to the law. It's got nothing to do with anything. - That's true, it should go in the law. - Exactly. - That's no good. - We always want to, we just want to like expand this universe as far as it will go. I'm just gonna, I just want to get to a point where the trash taste law competes with fate law. - The trash taste cinematic universe.

- The TTCU. - Oh my God. - Well, thank you. Thank you for joining me today, Jerry. - Yeah, thank you for joining me, Connor. - I've had like three hours of sleep today. I'm ready to die.

I feel like you're like that every week. - No, this week was exceptional. I was great. And then the last half hour I was like, whoa, I'm tired. - Yeah, I noticed. I looked over and I'm like, you're gonna add to this conversation Connor? Sometimes I just look to see if Connor wants to add something and he's just like, I am having trouble forming words right now. - The first hour and a half today I'm like, I feel Gucci. And then the last half hour hit me like a ton of bricks. - Last half hour you were just like AOL loading sign. - Anyways guys, hopefully you enjoyed and we'll see you guys next week. Bye. - Bye.