Anyone want to buy TikTok?
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Along the very chest, the flecking podcasts of saying, we're going to burn your house down and must you sell IT. That's the metaphor I brings .

using my tika. If you don't listen to the verge cast, we will burn your house down.

Yeah, that is our choices. You can sell your house or cranes will come to IT and tortured.

Yeah, i've got a lighter .

at everything. Hi, I am your friend. I am good. Trans is here, our transit here.

I am here to hear all the score king takes.

Yeah, she's got a letter and she's not for his, said dave fears this here here.

We were all so close to being in the same city for like ten minutes yesterday and we managed to not record of very upset. Yeah.

it's funny that they've got one hundred eighty. Usually at least two of us are together. We were all very close, all three of us being together and now or all three of us from IT.

But it's a good reason David has the rabbit are one in hand. I can tell you how much I want to talk about thread are one and all the things that can or mostly cannot do. So that's very exciting when to talk about that.

We are talking the electric wagon. That's another hour the vercheres. Apple announced new ipad. Tesla had earnings.

Elon threatened once again to turn every text on the road in the same sort of distributed ative U. S. situation.

Very weird. We're got lighting everything. But we have to start. We have to start with breaking news. Joe biden, just before we began recording today on wednesday, a signed the bill that would force tiktok to either divest itself, to sell itself to some other company.

And then I said, or shut down those of two choices, ah IT passed as part of an aid package to ukraine, israel older some humAnitary aid for gaza. And that package the house passed IT is part of that aid bill. The extended, the timely and the devex atter, which is the big hold up in the senate before.

So others now tiktok has nine months to figure out the sale process. And if they're making progress, whoever is the president has can add three months for the president to question, bringing the total three year. So five times, basically I as a year to figure this out. The clock is now ticking that the bill signed, its the law. No one knows it's going to happen next yeah.

I like there are so many strange unknowns about this, things like who is going to be president when we hit the nine month like it's it's it's so obvious to me that a big part of the sticking point was to move this past the election, right? That whatever is going to happen should have to happen after election day and it'll either be our problem matter, we've been reelected for the democrats or it'll be there problem yeah republicans right.

like that was in laws reporting too. Is is that a lot of these senators signed on to to approve this bill because IT pushed the past the deadline because they gave him a little bit more space to do that.

So yeah, no, I think it's such an easy maneuvre at such an odd moment. And we've talked so much about the politics of this, especially among Young people in the united states, and all the weird ways that's gona go. And all of the stuff i've been reading recently has been very strong, that like little overwhelmingly IT.

Seems like if you ask people, is tiktok sort of bad in whatever like mysteries way you wanted find bad. People say, yes, like all of the polls are basically like, yes, most people believe tiktok is a net bad but then I think the reality of like waking up and tiktok suddenly being gone is is a thing in an election season that nobody actually wants to deal with. The it's very strange. I also don't think that part is ever actually going to happen, but we we can talk about that.

Look, I love eating handfuls s at the night, just the thing I love. I know it's bad. I know I shouldn't do that. super. Do IT all the time.

That feels like on a relationship to social media, a country right now maybe to talk in particular, but in general, our relationship to social media like as making us feel bad. And maybe it's measurable or maybe it's not. Maybe this guy is just a riffle trying to sell the book, whatever is some ambient sensitive? Uh, I shouldn't emms IT but that is there.

And then everyone just like give him to me yeah like let me have them. The thing that's really interesting, right IT just got sign today IT was IT felt inevitable all week this would get that was the momentum was there law refiner, her reporting suggested the deadlines were coming ever faster, like usually fills is delays in last year and this was just happening and they actually have a little faster. We anticipate that I would happen like a day faster.

Now it's done. There's no more argument whether you should plan tiktok like they they did IT. They pass the bill to read signed IT it's the law.

I mean, I I do think you could ask the question of IT is what job and signed intended to be a ban of technical like it's not nothing to me that in in his statement about signing the bill in his excitement and enthusiasm for the fact that this got done after all this time, didn't mention tiktok once or any of this stuff once. It's buried like halfway down this long bill after I I forget the exact heading of the thing, but it's like missing lineas.

And then tiktok like this is not the point of the bill, which I think is is a strange thing that is going to play out potentially in some interesting ways as we go through the inevitable chaos of the next nine months. This got passed in service of passing something else. And I think what everybody decided along this process is passing this other thing is so important that sure will be an tiktok.

And so I think I don't know if that changes anything about the way that actually plays out. I think the bill is still law like IT did happen. But it's a strange way that we got here that makes me wonder, like does joe biden actually want to ban tiktok? Or is that just a Price everyone is willing to pay in order to get this important aid bill was a .

hundred percent Price everybody was willing to pay, right? Like, like this was a really, the whole bill was hard, was a hard fight, battle for everybody involved and and this wishes, like, you know what, we just need to get this bill out the door. If somebody wants to put this in, this is like, so so at the back of most of our list, it's fine. Which of that was really, really interesting to go from my tiktok being like this huge center discussion for everybody to being like a simply a footnote in a much larger bill? Yeah, I mean.

they did have the house to have the uptime vote on the stand on tiktok bill, which had a much shorter time line. And I think a lot of people problems that shorter time line and that just sort of arrives in the senate with nothing. So at least one part of our government had the straight up, down vote that you, right, and I for the house was about to pass that version in the bill.

But inside, i'm going to sign IT. I'll see you get IT to me and i'll sign IT whether or not they directed IT through the senate by attaching IT to a bill that ever I wanted to get done. Yeah, I mean, like on the margins, but that's how so many things get done totally.

But I think you have you had the house just the straight time and you saying on the site. So the motivations, I think are clear. Whether not bad wants to run around growing the pentax K I think is very different politically, very different.

The why ask, for example, announce day that's gonna keep campaigning. I'm to talk there's just gone going to beat like I don't know anyone's ready for that ratio that is going to in the history of ratios and the internet. Every post the White house now makes, every post makes on tiktok is gonna a get ratio to Helen back and it's gonna delighted. And that's fine.

I was actually thinking about that as sort of it's like a perfect microcosm of this whole thing. And I think the the thing that I have come around you is in in the months that we've been talking about this, I think at the beginning of all these conversations, I underrated how important tiktok is as an information source, particularly to Young people. But now you see the stats that are IT.

IT is a growing source engine. It's it's a huge source of news, particularly for like Jenny and Younger, uh, IT matters a lot and so for the White house to a one to be an tiktok but also understand that if we want to reach people, this is the literal only way is actually like a perfect summation of the tiktok problem. But tiktok is so important that you can ban IT and yet you have to use. It's so strange. But that is like that is where we are with what tiktok beans to people right?

Somewhere in the take talk officer is the not just throw out here and my shows you to the see of technologies like biden, hair, H, Q.

odi. Yeah, that engages was going to go from orbit.

Good night, everybody. So it's done, right? The point it's done. There are only three options. Now, tekko kis said it's going to sue, filed some sort of legal complaint to say this is not allowed.

We don't know that looks like they show g two actually put up a tiktok itself saying making a mistake. This is a ban, which is interesting. We'll back to that. And we're going to go to court and to fight free your rights as americans on the constitution because you can be silence also a very interesting thing to say. Um and then he said, don't really tek tok will continue as before we're I keep to talk and keep investing to talk yeah you just hold tight i'm going to go defend the constitution against government.

Ah it's it's super funny to see the guy who made like unalike a word because you're not a lot to say dead on tiktok the the best one of free speech like that's a really weird stance for him to take because it's not it's it's pg rated social media right like like its its social media for kids, which is why the kids use IT and why part of the reason people don't want the kids use to get like.

come on. I'm never going to look at cord the same way after that that you went from very, very innocent to very weird, very quickly. So there's that element.

There's also the fact that it's not the user speech that is being created here, right? It's tiktok. The company distributes the speech of users and the notion that its control of the algorithm presents some sort of social security ist.

That there is some long standing issue with having foreign powers control significant part of the media. That's a very old policy issue, this issue with concentration of media owners. So you just look at option one where I file lost that we're going to win pure coin flip.

We just don't know how that's gna go. We don't know where took up lawsuit is gona be. You could hinge all in free speech.

I could just hinge you unlike a technical drafting error where the government did not point to the correct data authority from eight to five to an act we don't like we have to see IT. So that's option one, but we're going to fight a lot. Student went option too is they shut down and leave.

They could do that. That's the band, right? We we've exhausted our other options and we were out here. goodbye. You ban tiktok. weird. I think that I think that is that that is a choice to buy, danced to make under the dress yeah right. That's the we're going to burn your house.

And unless you sell IT and make be good, we we look the match look, see later we shot at ten option two, option three years they sell IT. They got a year to figure out in option three has a bunch of warehouse in IT because most of the companies that would want to buy tiktok IT feels like our own D O J would prevent them from doing if frana rest reasons. So that's option three.

So it's it's not an easy road from here at all. I don't know what the creators are going to do. The craters have a year to figure out how much they want to trust tiktok, while tiktok is trying to turn itself in to the hometown.

P in network anyway. And it's not in the universal music isn't on there anymore like there's a whole bunch of stuff over there. The creators reactive.

I think we're in for just a whole bucket that changes much in the same way that when you know you on bot twitter and I can changes over there. The social media just started refracting around IT like things started changing all around that energy. Um I think we're going to see the same thing with to talk, but there is only three options. They fight in winter lawsuit, which we haven't seen. We don't know what that loss we based on so we don't know they leave or they thought that's IT okay.

Just want to float a fourth option, yes, which is they stay and the APP stores pay a fine, which occasion dering I calculated IT would be eight hundred and fifty billion dollars. So it's an option string out .

there who can point five .

car projects rap? Yes, it's like not even a big deal. Uh, but I think to me the the strange thing that's going to happen in the middle of all of that is just uncertainty, right? And I i've been reading and talking to focus about this just in the last few hours.

And there is this overwhelming sense from a lot of people that tiktok is sort of screw no matter what happens, because this is like IT just got completely thrown up in the air, everything about tiktok, and there is no indication it's going to settle down quickly, right? And like even if we get a new owner, there will be lots of changes. If IT disappears, obviously, he will be gone.

And and if if I find the lost IT, that's going to take a long time. And so if you're a creator, if you're an advertiser, if you're anyone who has any kind of investment in this platform, the simplest thing to do is going to be immediately started investing your time and energy and money somewhere else. And that is just going to bleed tiktok so fast. And to the point where even if a year from now tiktok cells to oracle, like what are we sure tiktok is going to still be tiktok in a year because I this stuff moves fast.

right? And then the actual mechanism of sale is confusing, because IT appears by tense, would not sell, the algorithm underlies the talk, right? right?

Well, biden has been pretty cleared this whole time that IT has no interest in selling the, if you believe bite dance divesting is not an option because .

then we have to see if tiktok actually makes money.

Well, I mean, I get, do they want a bunch of american to companies poking around the books of technic, like they certainly do not. Do they have to say just as an negotiating tactic, we will never sell in order to ward off a band? They sure do. But if you're just a responsible executive and now you're here and you have the three choices or choice forward, to be fair to David, which is ask apple hundred fifty thousand dollars different fun um for having to talk remain the upstart um get like IT feels gotto run down two of them right yeah I mean at some point your .

option is either zero dollars or a hundred billion dollars and you just you sort of I have no choice but to take that. But if that is the game that you're playing, you have to play that basically until the very last minute.

Look, the millionaire ine's teens by jans all over los Angeles. It's got to come from somewhere, you know, like the children of the ccp. They need A G wagons.

It's on saying and just put just put that out there somewhere and like money, money talks and like that's real. And I think having some dollars is Better than no dollars, whether not it's fair that the Price is depressed because the thing has to be sold. Good question.

There's just not a world in which the evaluation doesn't come down to or we're going to be successful in court. What number can we get that middle road of? We pulled out of the united states market and now we have nothing to show for all of our investment in building to talk user base. IT just seems it's that's a lost you too.

It's also just straight up bad business like that is just straight forwardly like a stupid capitalism decision at .

some point probably the chinese government also a capitalist pretty .

what end again, like there are the question of who ultimately makes this decision on that side. Very hard to know, would tell you a lot about how this will turn out, right? Like if if shoot the CEO of tiktok is the person who ultimately makes the decision, that will be very different, then if tiktok is connected to bite dance, is connected to the chinese communist party, which ultimately means the chinese communist party makes that decision, that would go very differently, like there are so many things we don't know.

Still, it's an exciting time, honestly like I love when a social media platform changes hands or has this big moment because you see see things like adam msy today was IT on instagram. Well, I think you you clock the video of him just explaining to creators how to get engagement on the platform. And it's like that probably wouldn't happen if there wasn't a .

tiktok add A A erasing like so okay, you're at work. I'm going to set some goals for you where to check six months after going and see out and I do. Why does this all feel like work? Yes, actually, then it's like the bigger story here. This feels like a work for an awful lot of people across all of these platforms and like maybe some people are I don't want to work for take talk and anyway, because I came to nothing. And that will just create energy somehow we will see.

One of the funniest memes to me on instagram is all the people who are like, oh, I had a call with meta and we talked about strategies for how to succeed. And I like IT has become a mean of people making jokes about IT. But IT started as a real thing and it's it's a big win to have a business call with meta executives about your instrument.

Wait, did social media become the new merik?

Yes, that's it's been there for a long time. I see the people, the hydro water bottles, the bottle just have a blue L, D in the bottom. This adds hydrogen tear water.

a lie.

It's very bad. If you don't understand why it's bad, I am just telling you that water is made of hydrogen.

and there's .

two of them. For every oxygen famously, do you .

get to double .

your hydrogen? And it's like what are you doing? Like how is this happening on this platform? And they are also going to talk shop. And I just think that platform the revenue pressure and all the social platform is so high, but all these companies need to make money and show population are doing now, and they just turn in the screws and like, can we how do we make money? And they just landed on the home shopping at work.

I think we had to towards a liff anyway, like there is a bubble and video crater economy uh tail once actually touch about IT um um and you can just see right to me the hydro waterboard like all that bubbles getting pretty big yeah like it's it's that good, right? So here's the exercise I want to do three options right lots succeeds by dancers are down or they get. So IT takes up as a prize, right? IT is the thing that no one can get.

IT is a scale social network with an active user base of Young people. That's what everybody wants, is really hard to get the way that takes. I got IT right, the acquired musically and an bite, and started spending billions upon billions of dollars on facebook and instagram ads to convert people into downloading the APP.

Uh, you can really do that. You can even run that playbook anymore because of apples are tracking transparency, that they made the add changes and to the market for apple store ads is is basically gone. You have to pay apple for them in the astra a different conversation.

But the point is you can't just run the playbook by danced and they ran that play up to the two of billions upon billions of dollars, right? So here's this thing that was really hard to do, that the conditions under which, by tense, did IT have dramatically changed. IT was very expensive, even when they could do IT. It's what everybody wants.

IT will be expensive, right? This isn't. This isn't like twitter fire sale. And even that was expensive, as we have all discovered, like that was ever Price.

This is the thing like, this is a scale video advertising platform with a bunch of Young people want IT. I love IT. That defines the culture all the time. So who can afford IT? I just looked up the list of the largest american companies by market cap um all the ones that are measured in trillions of tech companies. So I figure we can just go down that list and then we can go to the companies are measured in much more of you seem to think about his owners of bite dance, but very fun. I think we we should start the tech companies because they seem like the most likely group to at least have some interest .

clarifying question, how much should we think. Tiktok is worth I have an idea in mind, but i'm curious if if there is a like assumed number that I have not heard for what tiktok is valued at.

do know. So the number that I have just picked out of the blue is one hundred billion dollars because that is more than double twitter was worth. It's a huge is a huge chAmber. Most of these santis do that, right? I would have .

actually gone a little higher like there was the the estimate recently. The youtube is worth four hundred billion dollars on its own. So I was going to say, like two hundred.

let's go like what I yes, i'm good with one hundred .

i'm good to doesn't tube good works .

and taking that number because this .

is this is a small hard number. Yes, right? Forty billion for twitter was like over Price, but not even then a lot of people like do IT.

I don't think there's any world in which tiktok is in a in a regular pure market sense worth less than a hundred billion. So I feel I feel .

pretty good about I just some comparison. As of december twenty, twenty three, apple had seventy three billion dollars in cash on hand, which is an insane amount of cash like apples, one of those cash rich companies out there in that so much time I picture because IT IT will be hard even for an apple to pull yeah yeah anyway, here's the list um the apple and microsoft dropping back and forth for uh, biggest market cap.

So out of microsoft uh today um microsoft I actually feels like microsoft should be in the winning critic talk. They have been in the running before when trump tried to ban tiktok. H such an allega pulled into those conversations he has repeatedly described as some of the weird business dealings he's ever been a part of. Then I just want a way. And we got project texas, where oracle took over the data blab baba, which came to nothing, appears to have been mostly front.

convinced no one of any.

no one cares about process.

And microsoft has been desperate for like a true consumer play for a long time. Mean, wasn't that microsoft snipper on discord in a pretty way, like IT wants something like this very badly?

I disagree. This is, this is like a big, a hot potato. Microsoft wants no part of like the big power of microsoft. Now's is that we don't talk about microsoft that often and and that would change immediately with .

to look a good question. Progress is, does your CEO want to get hold in front of congress to talk about content moderation, right? And microsoft, uh, no, the answer appears to be.

Now that said, uh, there is a lot of scrutiny. Y or on microsoft. Al, with open a ee, a lot of IT. This is going to come up the idea and rest credit is going to come up as we go. Who is list and there's I think microsoft could run a play where they say, look, here's you're going to do we're going to do a partner ship with like snap, which can definitely snap is not on the list of biggest american company is by any by any means like not even in top will not go no, it's not even sniffers. Um we can say microsoft, we can see microsys.

okay? We can do this weird kind of partnership with that or they will fund them buying tiktok will like be there back and provider will run A I and azure for recommendations and IT will be the same kind of struck as open a eye. And if that's find over here, because this solves my problem.

but it's find over here, open a eye, a drop kick, that deal something.

I mean, but this is the, this is the game, right? All these companies are, it's an open. This is a problem that needs to get solved.

Someone has to buy this thing. And if lincoln is like, i'm not going to anyone buy IT, then IT is a ban. And so you have to at least run the process and you have to create some .

of where I think microsoft has like three meetings, but ultimately walks away again.

They came close before. Also, microsoft doesn't have a dead on and address problem because he doesn't run social works. Said from x box live um and so yes, they could just buy IT.

I don't think I want to.

but I I think using this leveraged to turned on the heat and over eye be interesting uh, that's my shot. Apple, uh, one or two, the biggest company in the world of microcode. Apple, I was going back for the apple.

No way is my answer to this question. Zero percent. And tim cook wants to sit from the congress and take a content moderation ever.

The funny is possible outcome of this whole thing is that apple bias tiktok and makes IT feature of apple T, V. plus. That is the, that is the single best thing that could possible happen that this is, this is their content play for apple t.

Oh, IT would be IT would be apple music. Yes.

apple music write. Apple learn music service to talk. He used music, have great relationships of all the labels because they're a big hedgie and spotify.

Apple, uh, importantly, has an incredible relationship with the chinese government that is extremely well managed by tim cook. So there there are a known partner that would find a way to bb blaw in a Operate, you know, with by dance globally. You could see the argument. I'm just saying I on ten clock wants to sit from the congress.

I think like you're gonna use that exact quote you just said when they pull tim cook in front congress for buying.

you have a good relationship with the chinese government is precisely the reason not to buy tiktok if you're tim right.

Moving on. I think we can all IT would be the shock of all shocks of apple takes on uh, third biest market has in the country. Now he feels .

a bit a field. No, no, no. Jason's like he's a smart dude, right?

Like he started that company from the ground up. He's still running IT. Now he made his big bet on AI.

Like they think very measured over there. Like everything they do has a purpose at a point, even when it's a screw up. So i'd be like, very surprised. Okay.

allow me to make the counter case. I love IT. I'm Jackson wong. I have somewhat intentionally, somewhat accidentally stumbled into a just an unbelievable gold mine that is the AI revolution. This will not last forever.

Other people are going to figure out how to make GPU as good as mine. And i'm not going to be able to sell eight, one hundred and four, however much money I want to, whoever I want forever. I need another move. That other move is tiktok.

I want. I want that someone is writing at my mode and video right now. And then the innovations like question or question, question or profit, you know, like this, is the move that as a big is eight one hundred and like don't .

know about that no the other the other reason is there is a real version of this that is tiktok is training data yeah uh which I think is is not worth a hundred billion dollars but is also not worth nothing. And I think one reason a lot of these companies, i'll take a good hard look at tiktok, is not because they want to Operate a social network forever, but because Operating a social network gets the basically an infinite supply of good training data for .

a is for now, right?

That's just what IT is. I mean, this is what mark zuker berg has been talking about with facebook like they're are touting the fact that they .

have this vast supply of stuff. It's a jenson and he like, look in the middle of geopolitical hot sons because building ships of T, S, M, C. In taiwan and the whole universe is organized.

One, eight, one hundred production in taiwan. What if I had a little tiktok to the next? I can do IT, right? That's that's m ready. I am putting that such .

thirty percent ways of the argument.

uh, alphabet or as the people know, google.

I mean, I think that no one wants .

them to buy IT. If you want to ban tiktok, you let google buy IT and just that's .

what happened that that is effectively a bad so no, but google my work.

I think google totally .

having that conversation though, like they love a social media platform that they kill a few years later. This is just like but to David's point.

this is a rich source of training data for yeah.

I think that's why .

there they're actually IT a long time ago and I asked and are about the web and when s he was down to the web and where you would start a new thing if you are a new creator, he said we we have youtube, right? So they know that all sort of organic content that is made by human beings is happening of performs. This is a rich force so that they're already searching tiktok.

You can search tiktok? google? yes. Don't forget, google has been saying loudly for two years now that one of the biggest threads to google searches tiktok.

yes.

which is, again, where they are not.

This is the really on hands. And yeah, actually.

alphabet would do this. I I believe absolutely yes. Alphabet would do this. IT would be sued to death. One's len icon is like already standing outside of the google plex. And now, in view with a law student just ready like hacked into to approach ze office the minute this happens, I like if i'm if i'm soon appetite, I would do this in one second but there's absolutely no chance that they will.

That's google. And the next one is really interesting. Amazon um I think amazon looks at text out slowly turning into the home shopping network and moving in awful a lot of records uh and it's like this we this is what we want.

This is the future of shopping yeah mazo has been gently trying to do this on amazon properties for a while. They've had create or brand things that they've done y've brought people and they've done video of none of IT is really worked. Uh but yeah, I I think I think amazon of this is the one that makes the most sense, also probably the one that is most likely to be plausible yeah.

I don't think they don't run social platform now. We they perform uh, so the ancestor is not seem so bad. That said, you know, the europeans just blocked in is on from buying a robot because they were worried about concentration, the robotic, that market.

And andy, Jesse, furious when he was talking about that. I, C, C, just so mad. Ah, he's a great well, be on the law. Now far we right by the .

but they don't but they don't .

have a social platform. And tiktok really is a big advertising plane. I was on the action one of the biggest adverse. Rather, I could see that I think this was right. Turn tiktok into something worse.

Oh yeah, yeah. This is like google where you don't what if you're tiktok ugar you don't want this purchase?

yeah. Like where can you imagine if you just combine amazon alphabet to brands with tiktok shops? Just gentle amazon basics.

just non stop in your feet. I would one hundred percent .

calling start calling that group of totos creators and is on basics. You know who i'm talking? Oh yeah, like the amazon basics IT would be bad for amErica OK. That name is on that feels very likely of this list so far microsoft and is on feel like the most likely to at least strike ah then there's matter which feels like a immediate hard. Now yes, and I think the takes our user base would revolt and leave if they tried.

Meter would do IT. IT wouldn't be allowed to do IT just show .

me what mark sagar is. That killer? Yeah, he like a hundred billion dollars. How many people do have to kill? Yeah, it's been done.

And then at that point, I think meta would own the five most popular apps existence.

And also the regular have a really good argument for matter right now. So you just made threads from scratch and it's doing great. But some you fake accounting, it's bigger than twitter and let's say fake because twitters numbers are fake and then it's like sensor tower numbers.

Are we like no one's numbers are real?

Yeah, you just match together a bunch of very truthy feeling numbers threads Better than two fun. Uh, but the argument would be what you can do IT on you. You don't need this.

So that's okay. That's all the companies with valuations in the tea. Notably, there are all tech companies. Then you slide down one notch, you go from six to seven. Evaluations are now in the bees in the billions ah and I would just say these are much funny or companies to consider .

burkhard health way. Yes, yes.

that's the most slighly .

honestly in butt more .

buffets like social media.

Let's get like warn buffet buying tiktok so that he could become like the ultimate tiktok er in the way that elon muss bought twitter so he could just be the twitter like perfect.

But I think IT warned but think of the phrase burn out.

not fade away, in buying tiktok.

really just like a fire baby. Just get out driving .

his old car to mcDonald's every morning, just flogging and take a you come on .

IT would be great. I can see that I don't know to fit in in portfolio and I would be good a elly IT feels like a no VISA you J. P. Morgan chase, why not have a bank own tiktok?

Tiktok was just payments process. The end of the day.

tesla is here. Number twelve, one market cap list. Although that valuation flushing wildly with every breath y one takes, that feels like an obvious no, although demand doesn't a .

social network. So I mean, yeah, elon mask himself a totally blokker part elon.

I will say elon know he's doing my resume twitter and he's not lend out there like twitters a video for platform and then he on is the most text forward person in the entire that's I don't .

think yeah tiktok.

this one's interesting. A walmart which actually tried to enter the tiktok week six long ago on the list. A huge american company would be faster, I think, for the same reason as same is on right, can can we build a new kind of shopping distribution? No, IT. IT does not seem likely. He does not seem like that's what they have.

so many ambitions and a lot of money. But like amazon, I don't want IT.

I'm just going to read the next five is an exercise for the reader, just like silently considered them and send us an email over which ones you think should buy tiktok of this list. X on mobile, yes, master card, procter and gamble home deepo costco, bank of amErica OK costco .

is something costco .

they go I just .

want to pause on costco for one second. You know what is a brand that everybody loves?

People love goes. But if they .

have to start paying influencers a living wage like they do with their regular staff, no, that's too much, much.

And that way, then there is the two to companies that over here， oracle is already in the mix. You could see IT right there are in the mix for a reason. Uh, and then uh, sales force, which I I think we should end with sales force because that is the darkest outcome for tiktok.

Uh, so so sales force buys tiktok and tries to turn IT into what linked in became from microsoft actually yeah like sales force just goes all in on like business not this is .

the future of american. Small business is happening on tiktok. Small business tiktok is still my favorite thing that their pressure wash your guys out there today and like a spring baby, light IT up.

And then they're immediately making tiktok shop content where they are trying to convince me to buy extremely obviously cheap surface cleaner. We're like they plugged in and and see the whole thing dente and and they plug in the water like what do we do in here? Anyway, sorry, take talk .

right now you you might watch too many ads on tiktok. I just, you know you know that right? Like you, but I just grow until get bluebirds the office so I don't even know what you're talking about.

Uh, if you started seeing that they're doing like this shimmer effect across IT to prevent the the continent is very good yeah take talk honestly disney by tiktok because tiktok is the most impressive laboratory of copyright infringement that exists in the world today, and there may be in world history.

So I was actually onna bring up disney as a, as a wild card here. I don't think disney can afford to do this, but I think, like disney kick the tires on twitter a bunchy years ago, disney is interested in a new media start up in a really big way. I think tiktok is probably too big to be that thing for disease. But I I if i'm bobbi girl, like I bet, I bet there is a memo in that boardroom.

Is disney still interested? Because I think when they kicked the tires on twitter, that was also around the same time they launched fusion, which was like their their digital media play.

Yeah, that was the wasting money of endin era.

Yeah, I think they are beyond this point now.

Yeah, I I don't think so. I think disney is in the business of getting Young people to watch IT stuff. And that the answer to that is tiktok.

I want everyone to pull over in a car. And just imagine with a tiktok themed part of what look like, close that loop.

every ride is sixty second life. And you just leave .

somewhat unsatisfying, let you do one hundred times in a world. I don't, bob, I want to stock concept moderation for a congress. I think that destroys disney brand, right? To be anywhere close to there is evidence the teenage girls are feeling depressed because of our product.

Not not disney zone, but it's it's interesting to consider because that is where you know like disney missed on coco million, which is a youtube phenomenon, is netflix enamel on? They they don't have a pipeline for itself and takes might be that pipeline. I just I don't have the money and I don't think they have the the mental staminate based.

The other things, right? That's the list. There's other stuff you can talk about amb and pepsi and networks, but I feel that's the list.

And you ve got to end with sales force because I just want ever going to consider the darkest timely. We'll see what happens. You know a bunch of for reporters are out in the world panel pavement to see who wants to buy things.

What else told me australias like sales through, he's like it's cricket because they are all afraid of in the on. And I think that is that was how they were talking before by and signed the bill. And I think that will change in the weeks to come, but there is going to be last suit will see I all goes a kind of a wild time. Do like if you've been pay intention to the request, you know that we generally think like all social media in the internet is being like table flip up people, people and like things are shaking out in different ways. This is one pretty big table for him.

Yeah I think it's it's gona be really interesting to see how this radiate outward to because like there's been a lot of talk in the last couple of days about what is going to mean for instagram and for youtube shorts and for snap. And there's this sense of a handful of companies in the us that really stand to benefit from the down fall of tiktok. And I think where people go, if they go, and how those platforms search change is going to yet again up and the rest of everything, like if tiktok suddenly floods into youtube, IT will change youtube completely.

Is this gonna be a land grab one hundred percent ah you like the qvc nature of tiktok and this all those like each case people, the people who aren't really, really and two IT are going be like somewhere else because at least it's i'm not .

getting sold to yeah this is a call. What happens? The excess d really change.

Sure of. He can feel coming right? I forgot. I was a scrolling ling. I forgot the darkest time in option what i'm just going to say. And we're in cut to a break verizon by tiktok, that's say we will be right back. We get through out of our one.

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Go back, I wanna save eighty and t bot tiktok imagine what sex night would get up .

to IT would immediately be spin off into some other David zz la six months later. So in four three ale take talk to everyone, extremely dark. We've been talking a lot about terrible movies on this pocket recently. Should we talk about rebel moon?

I speak you that looks like very bad, like it's it's so yeah.

haven't even looked at IT.

I saw I don't think this is a spoiler. I saw a screen shot of one of the final scenes where the ship is revealed to a woman who is all tied.

Oh, good.

That doesn't seem like my bag also. That's almost certainly .

as pointed and I just don't care. So i'm sorry to everyone who now I mean.

that does make me kind of anna watch IT, but just I can be mad while .

watching IT but I felt like to be clear.

just really right enough enough .

of this exciter talk yeah look, the man took his back from eighteen. He made a square movie in grey scale where where superman is super weird.

and you bring IT up like three out of every four podcast.

The policy thing that we're not about, we don't time talk about is a soon an naturality we will become the love land again and never talk about nata. And just going to be justice league happened to you because you repealed the neutrality. That's a real that was a real outcome of appealing neutrality.

You don't believe me, but it's one hundred percent year, right? Uh, when I I think i've been most excited talk about all week, David, you went to a party at the T, W, A hotel at F, K. In york, which is a wild place.

Have a good lunch. He saw rabbit happened. There was a demote stage, which which you talk about because have a lot of feelings Better than know. And now you are holding a rabbit.

one you have it's just so mine I bought this with .

my own money.

Yeah it's not they didn't do review in its uh, this was so what I went to was the a the pickup party for the first I think gets three hundred, our ones that came out. So they they invited a untimely a, but we had to buy our own in order to get into the event, which is nice. But I should say to people don't know how this process Normally works.

Often for use, people will ship us something you'll test and review and then we shape IT back. That's usually how IT works because if I had to buy every single thing that I wrote about, I would be homeless. Uh, so that's usually how works.

But in this case, we had to buy the things. So now I I, I think luck, that was one two hundred dollars. But so we get to the T W, A hotel, which is amazing.

I never been. It's like it's a very old terminal. A, J, F, K.

That has since been converted into this very siny kind of old fashioned hotel. Uh, it's awesome. Highly recommend. I had never been there before. I will probably never go again.

but I was super cool. You should only go if you're having to fly in our out of J K.

Yeah, oh god. IT took me two trains in a uber together. Like I don't recommend this plan otherwise um but yes, so IT was me and three hundred or so other people along with a bunch of rapid employees in this base.

They had done lots of you know work to overhaul d they had a big stage in the middle. They had a three sixty photo booth and a speak easy upstairs there is a bar with signature drinks. They were doing all kinds of mercy stuff.

IT was very much like an old school tech party. Like I haven't bend on one of those since before the pandemic, where it's just like a company with too much money. That's just like, what if we just blew a bunch of IT on this large events space uh and then Jessie lu, the founder and C E. O, got up and spent like an hour basically just doing demos.

Uh and he's been doing this for the last couple of months, kind of with increasing frequency, showing off how this thing works and what I can do and all this after he just sort of student on stage and did a bunch demos that were a sensibly alive than I have many questions about all of them are, and then gave them out to do that first group of three hundred people. And so IT was everybody there had like literally bought a thing to be there. So the room was very excited.

And there were a lot of people who have been in the discord for months, sort of reading about the humane reviews and figuring out what was going on and trying to get details on what this thing would do and how would work in lots of people. He was very funny, like being in line for a bar, while people are behind me debating how the large language model works. And there was a guy who was like, yeah, every time you ask a question, you're eaten into that one hundred and ninety nine dollar Price.

And I just like piece of my people. I I had a delightful time, except that I was at seven P. M. On a tuesday night and very old, and I can hang like that anymore. Yeah, yeah.

You've got to think now.

I have to think here.

You've only had a day. I don't think this is a review, but I was watching the demo that he done stage and two things sticking with the demo one, uh, there was a little game around the stream and he showed himself turning out the wifi. The entire demo I was done over four gt, not five g the one that is famously claimed to have very little agency go four G L T, which is an interesting choice.

But that's one hundred nine nine x and then he keep point out how fast everything. Once at one point he took a picture. And you know, that did the thing where the A I told you was in the picture. And I like, I don't I don't think that upload over four G, L, T that like little is the basic of IT didn't seem like IT was making sense.

So two things on that one, none of that was fast. Like, go back and watch IT again. Uh, he did a very good job of sort of talking through his demos so that while I was waiting for stuff to happen, IT would work.

And there were there were a few times. Or he would do something that would pretty instantly do IT. But what IT does very well is its sign posts as it's doing stuff. So like you ask you a question and IT respond and say, let me go get that for you and then say i'm going to get that for you and then IT gets IT for you.

And what what IT doesn't do is just sort of leave you hanging in awkward silence for several seconds, which feels like an eternity, but IT does take a while to do a lot of things. And with the photo ah having now tested this a bunch, what IT does when you like hold up the thing and say, you know, look at this and tell me what you see. H, which is like the sort of computer vision thing that allowed these gadgets to do, is not taking a good picture.

IT takes an awful picture and I can show you the awful pictures i've been taking, but IT literally adjust uploads, just the tiny st little bit of data, in order to be able to answer the question, what is there a crowd full of people, or like a begonia in front of you, right? Like that is the fidelity that IT needs and that is all of the finality that IT gets. So I actually think that particular one seems paul to me.

I guess I just need to watch again because I was just struck by the speed at which things appeared to be happening over a four g connection, not even a five g connection, over a four g connection. Yeah but i'm not even putting this on rabid. I'm just like i've used L E.

Connections before. They're not fast as actually now right when at all the band with is being prioritised to the figg connection, all the spectrum is being prioritised over there. That was one. And then there's the other thing struck me was how much stuff can do that we were shown to doing at the first launch that and see, yes, where that's just nowhere close.

Like everything.

it's weird. And even after being at that launch event where he got up on stage, Jessie and said out loud, I am going to demo all of the things that I can do from day one. And I have been testing those things, and I can do some of them.

So one of the big things that rabbit been talking about is this thing of the large action model, right? The idea is that I can actually like learn how to use apps on your behind that's like that this whole pitch, it's not just like a thing for ChatGPT. It's a thing where you can say, go do spotify for me, right? Or like go interact with photoshop for me.

That's little than one of things that they talked about, like you can teach you how to use photoshop for you. That is not coming soon. It's not it's it's like a thing that somebody had the idea to do. It's, I gonna talk about car renders, right? But I get that the renders said, as far as I can tell.

And then there's a bunch of stuff that seems very basic, like I gave humane a lot of crap for not supporting things like alarms and reminders and these very basic things and you know the rabbit are one doesn't support is alarms and reminders um and ironically, like humane, like the daja vu of all this is bananas for me like like humane. Jessie stood on stage and put up a big slide with here's all the cool stuff for shipping in summer of twenty twenty four. And it's things like alarm, calendar, contacts, GPS, memory recall, uh, travel planning, yelp, like basic things.

These these, these are things that you should have from the beginning. And there's just not really a good reason not to have IT. So right now, again, i've been testing this thing for a grand total of lake sixteen hours, some of which I was a sleep, right? Like none of this is final yet, but like a lot of things about this device do not .

work very well yeah and the only has four apps, right?

Yeah yeah. So I will say the the biggest, most complicated question about the rabbit is how this large action model works and thus what you're giving you access to. So when you log into the website, which is called rabbit hole, which I enjoy very much, the branding on this thing is on point.

They've done a very good job when you're playing music, there's a little rabbit guy with headphones on like. It's great, excEllent training exercise well on but you log in to a rabbit le and you go to there's a tab called connections and IT like lists, all the apps you can connect to. And right now it's it's four.

Like you said, it's spotify, dash, uber and my journey um which is a strange for but and then so you you click on the connect button and what IT does is open up a virtual machine on rabbit servers through which you just log into the spotify web interface or the jordas h wait so like I click on the door dash but and literally IT opens the door ash website just the home page of door dash 点 com on the thing and then I had to go click sign in I had to enter in my credentials and then I click to continue like i'm signing into dash Normally and then IT closes the window because now IT distorted my credentials uh and what rabbit says is IT doesn't store your credentials。 IT just stores like an authentication tokens so that you stay logged in and to that I say, like have you ever tried to stay logging in to the service on the internet? Like it's not possible you can keep me logged in, but and work.

So there is something else going on here. And there are a lot of people who are like, oh, what you're doing is you just exposing all of your logging credentials to a virtual machine that's just sitting on rabbit computer. You're just upload your life to rabbit .

servers that stupid. What if there's also one stepping on that, which is you've have not logged into door ash on rabbit servers and it's log in. So does not matter if you have the credential in your perfect long in to yes.

And I think for me, I uh, like I am logging into all of these things because I have to test this thing. But like even logging in to spotify felt strange, like this is like this is actually kind of a lot of access to information about me that you just have now and that's odd. Uh, but anyway, the interface for that sucks.

The system isn't very good. I have not yet successfully used dash every single time I try to do IT. I like, you know, you press the button on the side and you say, or do some food and every single time it's has dordick may take a while to load on rabbit OS, which is very funny. And then IT just immediately fails every year time.

So what's happening the back on there from what I gather, what the heart of the large action model is, it's gonna a click around on the door dash website for you.

I believe that's correct. yeah. I think that the long term plan here is to have more, uh, let's say, robust integrations that they can actually like. There's way do you do that with structure data? You can get to some of that self play.

but that's the old way, right? Like dora h as an API. And we've built T A weird interface for door ash in our little orange square. You don't need a match.

A I for that. No, you don't. Uh, but IT works.

This is like you are logged in the door ash and we're going to show you pictures. We're going to understand the door ash interface for you and then we're going going to let you're going to say, buy me this food and we're just going to use the door ash website on your behalf like that though that that is my understanding what the large action model should do.

Yeah no, that that's exactly rate. And part of the process that they make that their, in theory, one day, someday, when this launched is gna make you go through, is training the apps that you use. Like this is where you click to do x and this is where you click to do why, and you scroll down to get to the other thing.

And that is, that is how you teach these models how to do this stuff. And the reason they work with these four apps now is because there people have done that training with these four apps. So like.

literally deals with the four apps of deals is spotify, uber and dad and uber and dota are commentors so uber IT exists.

Yeah I I don't know, but I shared out IT.

I have a more basic question. okay. I I don't even only spent what sixteen hours with the, but in that time have you had an experience with that where you're like, oh, wow, I would willingly train this model when I get more access to IT to have these kind experience with another APP.

The spotify integration is the one to me that i'm like this is the thing I really want to work does like love. It's IT is so so bad you guys, I can I can even tell you how about IT is like I just give you a ventrous levels, uh, I say to the thing, play my discover weekly play list and IT plays every single time a song called can you discover by a band discovery? As I say play, beyonce is new album and IT played like A A lola by version of crazy and low.

And it's weird because it's not even like it's just searching in playing the first result because if you go to spotify and search, discover weekly, IT shows you your discovery weekly play this. So in theory, that shouldn't be that hard problem. It's doing some weird thing that I can't figure out yet and almost always does IT wrong.

So if I asked like a very basic question, like play just in timber lake that works, it'll play a just in timber lake song. And I have done that many, many times. But anything more complicated, at least so far, IT has fAllen import on me everything I see.

This is why I don't understand about how it's working. If you're saying you can go to spotify website and type in crazy love and IT shows you the first result is correct theoretically, ally, that is all the large action model was doing on the back end, right? It's looking at to the web interface is identifying the search box is entering the train.

It's saying, here's a verse realtor, stop clicking on IT. By way, this is not some radical new idea, right? Like big businesses deploy robotic process automation to run their building systems on windows. Ninety eight billion dollar companies exist to deploy this.

and rabbit has more less acknowledged that that is what it's doing. By the way, there was this weird thing.

I don't know if you saw that there is somebody uh, was called like rabbit scheme and gibb sort of said they had found a bunch of code showing that all rabbit was doing was just lifting yeah stuff off of where pages and running the same systems that everybody else runs in order to like understand was going on on a website and they were like, this isn't as scary as you think IT is like that's that's what we do. That's our public code. So they're acknowledged that this is what is going on.

And I think it's not working like, yes, again, if you are like some midsize hospital system and you hire U I path to show up and do rpa and it's like we're doing the lower by versions, you fire them like, get right, you I have this a billion of our company because you can do, we're about across the automation reliably at scale.

Like why the two hundred dollars.

two hundred dollars. But even to think like the basic thing, we entered a string of text into a search box, and we played the first result. Like the industry, the robotic process automation industry knows how to do that. So why can I do that? Like you feels like it's doing something else?

Is IT like inserting a little clippy in there? Is IT trying to like be smart for you?

IT may be it's also possible that is doing something different with spotify because spotify like has an actual sort of corpus of data that IT lets other systems access. So I can't speak to spotify particular, but at least from the demos that i've seen, again, I haven't been able to get doras h to work once. But from Jesse's demo of jordas h, that seemed very clearly to be the thing using the website.

Because the way that he showed what was working was he kept for a fresh ing dora's dot com on his laptop, and IT would show that something had been added to the cart on the website. That's not like a thing that happens if you use like a third party, A P. I, to do all of this. Of that is just a thing using the web up for you.

So this is the part of, and just like most interested in, because dash is the slowest one and they said it's the slowest one. And there comes a point at which all this, like just horse powerful, the interface with computer vision IT just hit the wall. Like, what if you just had an API, right?

If you could just, instead of trying to have a robot figure out what's happening on on the interface made for humans. What if you just got the robot talk to the application directly using, actually, pm's, the example that i'll give people a one of my favorite companies that I wish had succeeded was cover the universal room, the company that I hype up on the show over over again. Ah they were doing exactly this to the universal.

Now you put on all of your devices into the cover, and the cover was doing computer vision to watch your apple T, V and face or whatever, and click around on your behalf. So you could just say the name of the show and the name of the service, and then I would just like banging around your TV and use IT for you. And this shit was awesome when IT worked. IT was very slow and I was extraordinary brittle when I broke .

a IT never worked like the win is very generous.

Yeah, sometimes that works, you know.

And IT was cool. I was very cool in those moments that worked, but most of the time I didn't.

And then the thing that I really got you was IT wouldn't even show you the clicking around like you would put up the cover screen and you would hear like booking in the background. You can I just see if you're getting this right.

I would love to check your work and then you like that is not what I wanted happen at all or would just era, but the idea that like you've got a bunch device is plugged into a central h my switcher and you're like watch the show and IT knows that's the apple T, V. I wants to play play station. It's which is the important banks in a place like all that was awesome.

But IT IT failed because fundamentally the approach is brittle, right? It's just there, there. There are no ways for IT to break when the computer cannot understand what is seeing.

It's a hundred nine and dollars. But yeah, I can they overcome this problem? Or do they actually just need to build a bunch A P.

S. And you've got something looks like, I think you are in peace. As just the midst range enter its more from .

with reaps yeah the answer is ultimately both bright. And I think I think humane has said this about what is working on rabbis. A related to this you like they eventually wants to build big enough systems that others will actually agreed with because the reason to not rely on is that you're a tiny start up and nobody cares about you and nobody will make the deals with you.

So you do hacking computer vision stuff so that you don't have to get the deals. Uh because by and large, they can't really stop you from doing that. Uh, they can they can get mad and they have some ways book like that.

It's a more winning game in that particular respect. But the way for them to do this, they all acknowledge, is to eventually have those more official partnerships that just give them access to the rolex A P. I.

And then like, this isn't all have to be A I right? Like I actually think we like run into a trap when we assumed that the only way to do AI things is for all of IT to be A I like some of IT shouldn't be. We've solves a lot of problems actually, like we're pretty good at a lot of things that don't require ping a large language models or ordermm.

Donald, like that's ordering mcDonald on the internet is like a solved problem, were very good at IT now. And so I think will land there with a love of stuff. But one nice thing you can do with these models is you can hack together a kind of a solution to a lot of those business steels without needing those business steels. And I think that's what all of these companies are doing. At first.

The question is what the ashes and say this is a little little scraping of our website. There's another whole set of problems that you .

can problem to mean. I mean, the good is for door dash. Is dash just wanted to our mcDonald? I and I think that the the assumption that they're making right, like uber wants me in an uber and is very happy. Anything that happens that gets me in uber does .

this spot if I want to stream coffered music ah yeah I.

I don't know they did list of things .

are coming in apple music and it's like, is IT is that one coming? Have you met them like they don't like competitors? Do you know even apple music, which is theorics know horse onto play across the like?

Have you tried apple music and android? You think your wear little robot is going? You have to eat apple music. What I don't know. We will see, i'm very excited for you review this thing.

I think that the central question of like at one hundred and ninety thousand years with no recurrent fee, can you make this a business that needs to improve on some of the core AI features is reliant on leave this what the thing you're saying um so much, these are solve problems, right? Okay, that's great. The things that are sort of easiest to do, we're solve problems.

Order some food, call, ride, play songs, all A P S stuff. That means you're relying on the A I to solve all of the education. Go to photoshop, enjoy a cropping square around.

The thing like that is not a solved problem. You cannot A P I way into doing on a photoshop. In the general case, you can do IT maybe in some specialized ways.

Um OK, you're now one hundred thousand eight horses. Note no workers ring revenue. Can you make an A I I consult for the general case of using a computer, is the question of the thing is asking, actually know the answer.

I think the answer is probably no. But David, I just needed to do one thing for me. Can you hold IT up to the mike like quick one of the buttons? I just need to know how quickly they are.

It's pretty quiet.

Yeah.

h is so quiet. It's nothing yeah that's looking right now. Pull over in your car.

Turn off the engine. Rell the windows. 可以。

那就 这 样子。

Do without the click pulled over. Now, a sense of the people in the electric cards like what engine?

no. But to me the thing is like the big open question for me with both the human pin and this was like, what is like the one thing that this is actually for? And I keep hoping it's going to be music and humane almost got there except for all the ways that was often uh and this like I was excited because it's spotify and spotify is what I am hundreds of and other people used to listen music, just not there.

But uh, so far, it's a pretty good like question and answer machine, which i'm happy about. Uh rabbit has a big integration of perplexity, the AI search engine. Uh, so far like relatively real time questions like the the nfl draft is tomorrow as we've recording this and I was asking you to answer questions.

But like who is likely to go where in the nfl draft? And I had good up to date information about the nf draft. Like, that's cool.

Uh, q all the people saying, why can I just stood on the my smart phone like you super duper cain ah but was weird to me about this so far. And again, I have a lot of testing and self life is like this little thing. The gadget itself feels right for this moment in A I like it's pretty cheap.

It's not that ambitious. It's sort of silly and fun. It's like the worst case scenario is just like will look cool on my desk yeah people pay a lot more for cool things on their desprate. Uh but they're also at the same time talking about this massive world changing vision for where IT will all go. And Jessie, to his credit, is constantly sort of tamping that down, saying we're just a at the very begin, we have been solved most these problems.

He said something at the beginning of his speech last night that was like, i'm going to trial these demos, uh, and if they don't work, i'll try again and if they still don't work, will fix IT and as I what a perfect formation of like the time we're in for A I and so I think all of that is right. And I I appreciate kind of the like realism of what rabid is doing is supposed to like humane which is like you know sort of yeah brought from the earth fully formed we have solved this. Um but then they're still like wildly overstating what this thing can actually do in a way that I fend. Very frustrating.

There's one a comments on your hands on post work. Why are you being actually in human? And so one, it's not actually review yet important note, like we just hold them the thing and two, it's like it's two adults .

yeah yeah and .

that's just different. But I I I am very curiously as you go through three process, how much IT needs to lean on the computer vision peace because the more IT has to do that, which is the A I of IT, all the worse it's gonna yes I feel right. Um some more things you check out in the session, apple announced and made seven event for new ipads.

Um two things about this one interesting information. Al just like tune, watch your stream hole's go anywhere yeah and they could let IT lose. And our friend, in a certain point of this out the s and loose looks like A G so it's let IT loose, which is, if you want to think about what that means in the context of you, like, as I welcome you, I personally believe apple is announcing a lush.

It's very well and IP it's a huge like buggy's .

ard size I persian capital s so it's a weird and so in context looks our case e very good IT feels like we're onna get an OLED ipad right? That's room IT feels like they just chip on p everything else. I am trying very hard not to buy no let ipad.

but it's gonna .

why I don't use the one so that i'm .

not the only one I like I I need other people making bed.

I'm gonna a group and we're my old tim cook. Like get a group rate. I will conceive die pads and IT just feels like what they actually need to do is announced the software for the ipad. Not new. There were a bunch people talking about.

they said that I really enjoyed that was like after this came out, everybody was like relaxed. The real ipad event is w to b dc in june like this. This doesn't matter.

And I think that's probably true. Like the strangest thing about the ipad is the hardware has been really good for a really long time. Uh, I was other than please move the camera from the bad spot to the good spot. I have very few issues with the ipad hardwork and have not had issues for a long time. I have a million issues with what it's like to actually use the damn thing.

That's why i'm kind of curious about one of the big rumors that they're going to do a new magic keyboard that's like aluminum or something. It's more like a just a top case yeah with a .

bigger track pad like that would be cool.

Point on the ten ipad more they move the camera.

I know, but they on the other ones move in on all the other places.

They're onna, probably the pro in the air time around they after .

me that the problem is just a weird laptop.

Yes.

maybe this is the time i've i've been using my ancient now eleven and shi ipad pro is like tablet, like just have all the time. I want to use that as hoot. Why do I want to read stereo for you in P, D, F form on my ipad? Has got intended. But it's just like that. The thing is just like earns to be it's yeah .

you're also i've noticed you started sending a lot of apple news plus links around, which makes me think you you are becoming more of an ipad user.

I'm just deliver now i'm a dad. I live in the suburbs. Um sold the truck and so the truck at great, my stuff truck this is just me trying to not use twitter.

And uh while state journal and counting as publications are actually plus they got sucked in the deal. great. Fine, right? Um but do I love IT do I think apple?

I just i'm not going to pass any just anybody who has the product go and look at the list of trending stories. Be like who do we think these audiences? You just make that distinction all in you.

I know i'm not gonna ass and just, but i'm like that they're not getting Younger. Is that what I want to say? He doesn't know that they're getting Younger with time.

Uh, i'm trying to use the ipad as a consumption device and the ipad pro in particular, IT kind of yearns to the n key word case and I hope they just go for that. We have a weird mini laptop, fine, you know, but the software as change that's come in very soon with seven couple. Now the brave and meta smart classes got to be up.

David multimodal A I now and ask some colors and in very three designs that they have, I feel like I like about to buy one of these. A man also announced that is making heads with other people and attempt to make request to s the open, the r headset, which is uck, where to talk about a lot. They're going to make A X box of the r headset. It's a limited to metal quest. So you can see awk work like we're going to be the android of you are well, the apple student who efforts .

to over here can we we call out the this is so funny to watch microsoft go from being like we're going to create the VR had like the V R space. We we're going to do at all mixed reality. We're gna own this place to. We're going to do a rebrand meter quest.

I mean, if you're microsoft and you out there being like the future is x box game streaming, you might as .

well would have IT and an android one. So funny, it's like it's a it's a quest three inspired by x box or something, which just makes me think like somebody at microsoft like sent over the hacks codes for the x box screen and really like, do whatever you want, leave us alone.

I hope IT is like just huge. I hope that is. So, chunk, I like .

the original X I log x .

box controller. yes. yeah. Just over the top.

Uh, so the O S the quest O S is being rebranded, I guess, to meta horizon O S, which is just a lot of.

yeah it's weird. There was like horizon worlds and then there was horizon workroom. So that was kind of always gonna be there thing. But now there trying to make IT even bigger, I would say horizon great name from Operating systems ab, the names are insane.

It's just a lot of words. So horizon OS runs on the quest hardware and x box is making x box and far so a lot. Um good news though.

More companies that are known for their good names will be participating in the eco system, including issues. Republic of gamers very excited for the name to come from. Then when novo will make something, and that will be a.

you have legion .

in IT somewhere, a word salad. Lenovo legion quest flip thirteen.

yep. And and then all of these are gona run on a chips. H, C, also well known for stretching the boundary check beyon, all human condition.

So that's interesting. We'll see how that goes right there. The players, they have the momentum. The quest, quest three itself got a an update where the past three videos of hie quality and looks Better. When you look at phones, there is momentum over there.

Uh, I want to come back to actually the rail and glasses, which are a hit like they feel like a quiet hit. I know a lot of people who have them. Our friend janie, an so SHE, doesn't travel or go on field video shoots without them anymore.

Wow.

they're really good. I ve got a pair. I I should wear mind more legit, singing about going and getting prescription lens is put in IT because I get my to put my context at it's like frictions too much but everything I wear like I don't know where my contexts more often these like are awesome.

They are cheap for the box. I've got a friend who uh in the penny xi just became on those people who doesn't live anywhere SHE is just like literally last week she's I am working from about and I guys hate you um you seem great. All our phos are from the medical.

The thing matter got really right was IT IT when the correct direction in terms of saying, like we're onna, pick a very small number of things for this device to do and it's going to do them pretty well and then we're going to slowly add things that I can do like IT. When I started IT was like, okay, it's a pretty good speaker system, if you like, want to listen to music or podcasts or whatever. That is what I use IT for.

It's become like when i'm out on a walk or whatever, I wear IT and I wear the glasses instead of headphones now, which is awesome. Uh, pretty good camera. People really like taking photos, videos that way.

And now they're adding on they're like, okay, now we can do. They had the you could like ask that AI questions, but now they're adding the multi motor stuff. And so they're like they're sequencing this stuff really smartly instead of like promising the world from the very beginning and then not meeting people's expectations, which I think is really the key. These are Better than people expected them to be, which is so, so, so rare in this moment .

with out rare yeah um and again, the first thing they just had to be with some nice and ray bands yes, like pair with these other two designs, like people just like those designs. Well, the battery last. The camera works as I got just spare away for res like maybe will be cool. And now they are shutting on .

the school stuff was like that old mch hebert joke, right? Like one escalator, an escalator doesn't break IT just become stairs. Like, that's, that's these glasses, right? Like the worst kids in eros. You just have a nice .

pair sunglasses, honestly, three box, a pair of ribs is like a little bit premium. It's not crazy. And now the multiple you can do to think, what am I looking at that tells you, right? That's the big trick. That's a thave. It's emerging is the party trick of these A I devices.

And IT is messy as anything else like v song did not processing with IT IT was like hilarious ly wrong about cars and all this and it's always like all these systems is very confident and just lie, see your face I actually .

i'm starting to be of the mind that we need to push back strongly and calling any of this AI. We just need to call the language models a because they just make up words. There's no intelligence, artificial or otherwise, happening here.

Tell me a hard fight. I don't think we're gonna do that, right? There's a lot of fight, everyone, i'm not going to win. But the conflation of can you talk with are you smart is a real weird moment on the internet right now. IT turns out talk maybe that I talk a lot.

I'm not trying to burn anybody put that other, uh, fascinating to me though uh, put the just add all the sup right you got matter doing this sort of open stuff with one ovo and all these other companies. Uh, you've got the glasses, which is sort of a sneaky hit that people like next to okay uh, and all reports, vision pro demand is suffering, right? And it's like to apple just get outcome. Empire ribs.

yes, yes, that's crazy. It's not it's not crazy though.

IT is a thirty five hundred dollars, but against the three hundred dollars.

I don't even think of that. I think apple just miscalculated like I the longer I use these devices, the more I can't believe apple didn't make the smart glasses like in the thing that apple has traditionally done, which is like build a thing and then build a more complicated thing and then build a more complicated, like apple is actually very good at lattery that stuff up over time. And in this case, just way overshot.

IT was like, IT was like building four generations do soon. And trying to convince people to buy IT. And what if if they had just built like the ipod version of IT, which is just like a nice thing for listening to music and talking to an assistant, people would gone out for IT. And IT is like IT IT continues to blow my mind at apple just I think, picked wrong.

They could still do IT. We could still get the apple vision air.

I am sure we will sure that's where attended. But like I what the human folks told me as they're like a cable when we built this, we decided to build the hardest thing first based on the idea that then it's much easier to sort of racket our ambition down and sell cheap er simple lier versions of the thing. But IT turns out if you blow the expensive one, you don't get the chance to do the next things.

And I think apple has kind of dug itself a hole here by so aggressively over shooting. I also, like all these supply chain numbers, should be taken with like a giant heap of salt all the time. But I will say anecdotally, nobody talks about the vision for anymore. Yeah IT is totally faded.

I take them a lot of time looking in the separate uh and IT is A A lot of people like what are you using the simple you know there's like one outcomes out not to hit and people really like IT, but little dire in there just say, was right to put that it's a little heat for that one is Better right here yeah spt, right. The question is, is IT worth putting IT on? And there isn't anything that makes IT worth putting on.

There's a few things that sometimes but even mark girma in his new sauter he was talking about in this world is like where anything less less like it's lonely, like because I watch best and uh as this weird it's just like a weird moment in hardware yeah where the big expensive stuff didn't go and the sort of cheap stuff was making small promises is gaining a new kind of omentum. I think i'm to buy him. I don't know why of two my glasses, as I lose them, ever ruled to not buy glasses more than fifty two box and buy some glasses more than fish box because you're gone yeah I man has flushed the fifty dollars on the toilet. And I mean, but there's plants like .

what if the good is that these these ones are very heavy um so IT will be hard to lose them.

They they and they charging case is really nice so you're going to be like, oh, I can't lose my charging case because it's so nice then you'll .

never lose your glasses under.

Just filled with optimism today yeah just all optimism. We don't take a break .

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Okay, we're back. We had to talk about tesla. Tesla earnings in the hawkinses line for the preview earnings with tesla is in its flop era is a great that's just to recap. Tesla has let off more than ten percent of work works like fourteen thousand people.

Bunch of executives are leaving, including the guy I was in charge of the power train and energy division um and then I had a policy who was the going get autonomy like improved also gone um a lot going on the test, but there's a rumor that they're going to cancel the cheap P V. And the kind of said they weren't going to cancell IT. But IT also sounds like what they really to use make the model wide cheaper.

Uh, they recalled all thirty eight hundred cyberstalking with thousand and seven cybernetic. Ks, uh, but they talked, elan said optimists would be a fully sentient robot that would, a quote, expand the economy, the world economy infinitely sick. We'll be signing up the international.

Yeah sure. So classic elon bump there. I think he .

even said in that. And now that like in that sentence, I think he said, but i'm just guessing like, yeah, great investor call.

there's a new model for performance. great. But they don't have his new cars. There's not really a plan to any cars. There are a not some robot taxi plan on August eighth.

And then there is a thing that we've been talking about, what he brought up again on the earnings call today. I just want to talk about for five seconds because that is bunkers to me. You how many? eight? One hundred? Tesla has? He won this very funny side about how he doesn't call them GPS.

I don't think graphics, whatever it's you can hear the investors being like what um and then he got to, we have all these eight, one hundred ds and we are doing inference A I inference more efficiently because we had to learn how to do IT in the car, which is constrained. great. That makes sense.

It's a good argument when you measure IT when that make sense. And then he's like we've got this like A U S. Play, which you've hinted that before.

But he was like what we're going to do is run IT on all the teslas that are just sitting around. So quote, if you can imagine in the future, perhaps there's a fleet of one hundred million tesla. And on an average, they've gotten like maybe a killed lot of inference compute.

That's one hundred gigawatts of inference compute distributed all around the world. It's pretty hard to put together hundred a watts of A I compute. So in perhaps, maybe instead of using the car ten hours a week, we use at fifty hours of a week while sitting.

That leaves over one hundred hours a week with a car. Inference computer can be doing something else. And IT seems like IT would be a waste. Not use IT. My man is describing set at .

home for test less. yeah. What does this terms of service look like?

But it's just like you do. You want to run compute models on your car while succeeding in the driveway. You're a car which, by the way, famously runs on electricity.

Where's that tricity? Where's that power building from? You get cheap er SHE buy car.

And now elan can use IT to do whatever inference to on whatever robot taxi fleet you think he's going to need to run IT. Also, I don't know you know about U. S. They like knowing where the computers are and .

and typically these computers are not driving somewhere between twenty and one hundred miles an hour .

like i've been reviewed to see if A B S. I. I would say a core assumption of that conversation was that he knew where the servers were and they were not ever at risk of crashing into other servers.

This feels like such a classic elon musk thing because even as you're reading that, it's like, okay, this sort of makes sense. Like, be a fleet, lots of computer sitting around. What if we use the computer? Then I think you raise your hand, you go like, how is any of that gonna work? And like, I don't worry about that, just doing that at .

the same time that like chevy is, is getting a lot of flag because they've been using their computers to spy on people and report them to their insurance companies like maybe not the time to be like, yeah, you've got a computer in there and I want to use IT yeah.

it's like it's mine now yeah, I just think this is the one where it's like what you want to searching for is arguments. The text will have massive margin, software company style margins instead of car company version. Think the tampering tesla.

Now they have absolutely car company marginals again as a drop the Price so much, and they are in new cars. So the competition is here. And you can see IT sales fell like fifty five percent like they they're just not doing anymore and so he's concocting these arguments were, uh, sentient optimist robot will expand the world economy by infinity. That's a pretty good margin.

good.

I mean, if you know more prior to if you pull that off and then he's like and i'm to build like distributed data center so on now i'm running A W B S instead of having to build the data center in texas forever, you might need to build IT. And it's like, this is the the truth is outing here, right? Like IT is very hard to get from here to. I'm running a distributed a supercomputer in every tesla in the world. Is this very hard.

a kind of feels little like a palette moment forum? You know, where pellet on everybody, everybody got a pill on because they want in one, and IT feels like maybe everyone who won the test, I got one.

Well, let me ask you this question about this distributed difference computer. What happens at rush out the total capacity of the computer, just like plus like hour by hour, like it's always by a clock somewhere, like every award, there's a huge difference capacity that starts and IT comes starts going back online at seven pm, like literally the sun sets on tesla compute capacity across and that is everything bit like it's very hard at to pull this through. Um I think I think test less in a elite fascinating moment. I am not sure IT five years now IT looks anything like this company.

No yeah IT IT seems hard to imagine. I mean, that I think this company has already gone through so many where iterations than anybody would have expected and continues sister of struggle long like tesla feels very much like a cockroach at this point. That sort of nothing could happen to tesla that would surprise me. And also IT will be the last company .

that exists on I disagree. But like IT feels like it's going to crap even like a bunch .

of tesla fans or like I don't know about this anymore.

Well, I mean, that's one of the big questions me. I was talking about this with andy hawks yesterday like this question of kind of the elon must effect, that the people who are predisposed to want tesla for a lot of the reasons that tesla promotes them being good for the world and all that are also people who are likely to not be sacked about elon musk chinago, particularly as he runs x and so trying to figure out how to quantify how much of this is about the the chAllenges in the EV market.

How much this is about plug in hybrids, which I thought was a really interesting thing that must said during the earth call, he blamed a lot of the struggle on the rise and plugging hybrids um and how much of this is just people voting with their dollars and voting against steel? Musk is really hard to know and I think it's going to be super obvious in retrospect. And i'm very curious how it's going to shake up.

There is also affect that if you're just going to buy a car and you're going out in the world you like, i'm going to buy a car and you don't buy a car based on IT, then you go you looking say, okay, testers have really Better reliability. They're really hard to repair. They're really hard to just get in an appointment and often times that appointments horrible.

The build quality is crap to the point that like they keep having to do recalls on the cyber r truck. Like those are all just signs of a badly run company. And I think, I think this company had a lot of advantage because the first mover and elan musk, an incredible salesmen.

But now, like the bloom is off that rose twitter x what everyone to call IT ripped that right off. And now it's like, okay, we see that this guy is just a really good salesmen and he pulls out a lot of his but and he is not some genius and actually he's not running a very good company because he's winning twelve at once and no one can do that. Even the elon .

mask all is out. Crimes, the version of the k, yeah, just that hit me out. I'm here .

to debate.

You debate alex with OK.

please going to be great.

Honey potting literal ah I don't know the iron, I just think I think the fundamentals are lot of business. He has to not be a car company. And the the thing that is happening is, is getting sucked into being a car .

company because that is one in because .

because they made cars. And the blaming the hybrid thing is super funny to me, like, yes, I know hybrid, but like you basically tell me your customers, is that wrong, right? How do you get across? How do you get past the market making decision? Regulate the market when you make hybrids illegal is like kind of the only answer that, or you can yell at everyone that they are wrong, and like yelling at the market that is wrong like that.

That always famously works for everyone who does IT.

This is famously why? Bax b.

yeah.

everyone knows. I don't think I D, I think I would. Everyone I know, as abbott knows, it's like some short term solution, the infrastructure that there, everyone preferred to drive around the battery.

My dad just recently bought a prius after spending months looking for an E V, because he just like they just couldn't find when they made sense, and decided that in their lives at this point, like the next car should be an electric car, the car right now should not be and I think a lot of people are making that decision.

Yeah, also the new priest uh that doesn't look like angry about no, it's kind of great. Yeah we will see right uh, lightning round which got so while we're .

talking about um apple TV plus soon to be augmented by the purchase of uh, there is a report this week that uh apple has been negotiating with fea, which is the the governing body of soccer around the world uh to do a new global tournament exclusively on ability. Plus, uh, I find this fascinating for a bunch of reasons. One, apple is like increasingly deep into the sport world.

They have this thing with majority exocet that is going very well. IT seems uh in part because you know no messy, decided to play for the M L S. But uh, the numbers that have been thrown around are upwards of a billion dollars from apple to be the one to stream this term, which is like we've spent a lot of time talking about apple TV plus kind of somewhere between sort of a lack and aside project that I was never going to be really material to.

Apple IT was just kind of a thing you did on the side in order to sell more subscriptions. I cloud right, like that was always the play. This seems to me to be the sort of thing that you only do if you're actually really serious about turning this into a real thing.

And apple is just further and further and further into sports in a way that I continue to find surprising and sort of fascinating. And they want to invent a completely new thing with some of the biggest soccer clubs in the world, which would be huge and is immediately the kind of thing that would draw potentially millions of new people to apple TV plus. But this is like there there's no uh, indication that there was a new york time story that first recorded this that this is like a done deal but they want to do IT next summer, which means like this is a big thing that could happen very quickly. And like I don't know, apple TV plus just continues to be a bigger thing than I think i've got a credit.

I think IT kind of makes sense though right now, we're apple to do IT because hollywood is in a state of flux, right? Like like streaming is completely changing the game there. Everybody's trying to figure out where the revenue streams are and the tech companies are kind of leading there for a the tech companies are running hollywood in a way they haven't a previously.

And apple is doing IT really, really well. It's a smaller play and everybody else but it's it's doing IT intelligently. And it's like, yeah this this makes sense for them to go and they just like take a couple of distress ing services out yeah just body of you with money and and then but snap up those the drugs of that later right like make a deal a .

sky or whatever that the play apple could just walk into the offices of any streaming wanted to and just write a check for its evaluation .

and then they don't want to do that. They cheap licenses and stuff like that. That's what runs these services.

But this is one thing. A billion dollars to create a new socket tournament is not that thing like the ml thing. I understood that a relatively small, relatively safe bet, and they got to essentially take over that whole project. This is a this is like negotiating for nfl rights, which apple like famously has not won because IT once yeah but I wanted what has been reported is that I wanted like complete control over this thing. You're in that from the interface and you're not getting IT from FIFA and they're still willing .

to three billions of dollars at its fascinating but this would .

drive ve subscriptions yes, for shorts yeah huge smart. He's also a huge work. yes.

And you know, sports are stickiest thing. We'll see. I think I has a good at broadcasting sports.

Yeah, they're not great at IT. yeah. So the more they get into IT, the more are they have to come. Does like this cook want to send congressional k about contemporary time? Cook wanted in front of bunch soga fans and soga .

penalties? Like.

but the tim cook wanna go like, sit a box of the world cup? Yeah absolutely .

not sure I friends that you get.

uh, welcome their back, baby will see. We said that everyone, just a media, just a media. Yes, so called come has announced, they previously announced some do processors, and these are their kind of responses to the X, D six processors from intel and A M D.

This is meant to go, and windows machines meant to compete with apple. They are saying, there is fast cim three and it's onna blow IT out of the water. Uh, joe n.

Elius are a new laptop. Reviewer went, and some of them out in some very, very, very, very controlled demos. And he was like there could be something there he was seeing. IT was slower than the in three, in some cases faster and others. I mean.

if it's even in the ballpark of the m three, that's a huge deal. Yeah, that's a huge deal, right?

And I think there there's a really interesting stuff particular around architecture. They're not doing the big little core deal that not everybody else does where they are like these are performance cores and these are efficiency course. They're like that.

These are all performance quarters because they're just that fiction um that was me doing a calm impression, sorry. So it's the snapdragon and x elite was the ones previously at out and now we have the snapdragon x plus. No good, which is slower deal because it's not .

elite are going premium.

There is yeah nobody will know.

Appreciate that when you try to match apples performance, you also try to match apples insane names.

This is good and it's it's all bad. They'd all the names are bad. But we don't know when these are probably going to come this year.

We will probably start cinema and windows devices this year. And I really, really curious to see IT because like if arms and windows can work for once, that would be huge. Yeah but they famously kind of like screwed up the last time .

and the time before that and the before that the time.

Yeah that's why immediately undercut welcomes like back added again at the crispy cream.

The microsoft event is made twenty or twenty first or something and they're gona announce new surfaces that we think by all indications are going to run these things that we're going to we're going to see this soon or rather than later. But time has been reporting about how excite and microsoft is. Cow com seems very excited. This could be something .

when we ve got compute text come in that's made thirty first.

Oh yeah ah it's gonna be like laptop explosion here.

That's so so we're going to get a lot of laptop soon. And I suspect a lot of over processors and up will these processors be good?

It's a big move away from into there's a lot of laptops of these weird sound track and chips in them.

We'll see will also have to see because um historically, the laptop makers don't like to ship the the stuff besides intel to reviews to check out because they want you to check out the thing that people actually buy. And that's usually the intel products. So it's it's going .

to be a fun one. Mine is very simple. So that is a new APP, very good on mobile. They've had have gotten rid of all the tabs, and that's just all just wgt cool.

They said to me, fast me seven, we will see if in the website is nothing thing actually talking about. They are getting rid of their dressed apps, which they ve had forever on mac and windows. And they are going all to web apps. And you can now, because it's web up, you can control yourselves anywhere.

Interesting, i'm just pointing out the move to distribute applications on the some computers to the web instead of in native binaries is like full speed head, like it's over, like dulan field to see a fig was like why would you distribute in APP on something any other way? I accept the web and I get there's a lot tron and some other stuff free package up and looks native, but I saw this sounds like h this is just hat like this is a huge shift in computers that is like reaching a point where it's like no even talks about that. You're just assumed that if gonna make a new APP for desktop computers, what you are actually shipping as well. That yeah and I the thing I point you is the vision pro, the high end of computers, the cutting edge of what a computer can be mounted direct to your face uh all of the most interesting absence on the vision pro h, the netflix APP, the youtube APP, whatever, are just custom web brothers yeah.

we really called that. By the way, I feel like we we deserve credit for saying over and over the the thing the only thing that say the vision pro is is web apps. Yeah, that has spent absolutely correct.

I know. I just I think because the old APP is indeed slow.

Wasn't the old APP supposed to fix the fact that the APP before that was sloan bad?

no. So so where Patricks on the show, I think explain himself to us when I know and they had the old platform, which they now call s one, which was like ancient and they rearchitects everything for the future and support utmost and that they wanted to do um and that's called s 2。 So there was just an architecture update. IT was not a need to make god fast .

up so they kept their slow APP made IT work on the new architecture.

Yeah there's a lot of our and the best like do you want to run which is like a custom to for work and life? I would just says you should do um good times in these in these submitted.

I just use spotify connect and IT works fine. Yep, if I had more complicated, interesting I never ever touched the zones and i'm very happy.

I ve used air play for years now.

It's great, works just fine and you can group things in airplay. You can group unlike speakers in airplay, which is interesting um but saw that sort right. That's a weare way over. We've touched done everything from web apps to the future of free speech in america, busy week to whatever is going on a tesla. So a lot I was a busy week and we are more of coming because we are we're head first into developer conference season now yep, i'm going to start to go for me for this solid ipad. You can help me up not um tell alex all your favorite .

things about your tesla if you have we'd love to hear you say orderly forgot .

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We'll see you next week. Support for this episode de comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud. Hey, italian, from decoder with neither top, we spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

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