Apple and OpenAI make a deal
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Well, walk in the request, the flagship podcast of thinking, we should have a hand held two.

We should have a hand.

I would be awesome. I'm gna make one we should do with. Then i'll see the screen that we clam as an end screen. Just play the games that's coming for later. But if you know you know hinting towards there's going to be a real theme on verge casts this year, which is, are you told the truth?

And then we just look into the king .

does IT work the way the people think IT works or does IT work? Not at my friend new alex transits with me in the studio.

Yeah, i'm your friend who's excited. Talk about all the gadgets that are .

definitely real in work. Twenty twenty four. It's probably broken and I don't believe you day here here.

Hello, this is more fun when we were all sitting in like a needle's fancy house together. Can we just do that officially .

as the first air condition? My god. So if you watch us on youtube, Price of listening ing and that house was five thousand degrees when you.

we stop recording between segments, when they went to break and liam, or produce their hands, me people per towel, and goes from this angle, your head is a mirror. And i've been thinking about that for four days now.

This is what what we do to .

wake the verge .

cast for you and I don't want to go too far demonstrated and saying this is why you should do banks yeah.

would rock some. I would say there are several things are preventing me from growing good banks. And i'm happy to talk about the many right now.

David gets banks. That's what A I is for if someone can make an AI generated image of David with banks. I have very like bouncy, curly hair. There's a lot of stuff in my hair to make IT not do that. yeah. But we watched the fall guy and I am out of the bathroom today with just like full floppy bangs yeah and I was like, back, should I do this? And he was like, no SHE just don't just sit you right back back .

in the bathroom yes.

I appreciate that you like me and most man, watch ryan ghostland for now and a half. And then it's, what if I changed everything about my self? I could be more like him if everything about me, he was different. But a lot of those moments recently that .

you met me when I had black highlights in my hair. So I think there was like, immediate. She's like, I can go back.

I suffered through this already. No, thank you. All right, a lot to talk about. We promised an entire episode of the show, not about the AI stuff. Apple announced A W, W C.

There has also been a ton of gadgets, news through that and then a lighting around unsponsored. And i've seen the tweet from people who, like, i'm trying to light around, quite Frankly, you gotta just bring a new case of money to our office directly. Yeah, you're not trying heard enough. That's all you can't just between him me you're posting on threatens physical money in a suitcase, a good suitcase .

here I I .

want animals on alphabet so suitcases we wanted .

see you in the love just .

make icon sams I to me you know like good suitcase. That's actually it's not the money in the street.

You just want a suitcase teen in your suitcase.

This here is a sponsored by a suitcase company. I don't know any other luggage. Friends, american tourists, do they make top? O yes, I would say away.

But we wrote that story about away one time, and they threat to us. SHE doesn't worry there anymore to see anyway, that's deep verge law instead aside. So we should talk about all the other stuff from W, W, C.

That isn't A I. But first we should mention two quick things. what? Apple, a apple intelligence, if you will, no one. We talk last week about the confusion over who was paying who in the way apple was treating open eye, which was just a plugged into their system to basically do all the risky stuff. Apple will do a very small set of things.

And then, if you like, this might create horrible brand risk for us by telling you, I like, would you to use ChatGPT? And then they had said, would eventually you plug german I into this and maybe some other models. So IT IT seemed like they were just extending the capability of the system. And I couldn't tell who he is paying, who mark man has reported knowing, saying anyone that was paying open I an exposure. And the the idea here sort of make sense.

Yeah, like everyone in media starts there, you get paid an exposure.

This is yeah.

I just live off of like icon that I feel from dusters.

It's great. Now the idea right is people see the ChatGPT logo. They'll see the capabilities, the one to go and log in.

This is a busy and then they will pay for ChatGPT the twenty box among the whatever. And then apple will take thirty percent. It's always, it's always in the background.

What's apple's plan? Thirty percent yeah that that you walking into apple store, thirty percent show up with the same, you know like that tim cooks vibe yeah. And I don't know if that's going to work for a few reasons.

One, I asked very specifically, what we are going to you see is there going to be an interface for people to sign up for the ChatGPT subscription? And the answer very clearly was no. Yeah, the sample is available to you. You you may go and sign up over there OK. So they need to build the flow, which means apple has to up sell you to someone else's product inside of its own inner faces and then take thirty percent lots of question Marks there.

Does that exist any i'm trying to think of a version of that, that exists currently on I O S. And I can't think of one where you're buying someone else is product inside of an apple product and how that flow would work. I don't think that exist.

Streaming get for .

like some other streaming .

that's that's probably closest that kind of that kind.

Yeah, I don't know it's it's a new right. But but the economics is reported by mark ermin would look like you use the stuff you like IT so much you say to yourself, I wish this strobl would remember me and then you go pay the money. So IT has states fulness, which is the thing you have basically pay for this point.

Aren't people kind like getting fed up with paying the robot for money?

Yeah, I don't. I think the question here, how this works out is if you're getting the basic version for free, which you are you the full GPT foro all of its features somehow for free, what you are not getting is doesn't remember you can you use the ChatGPT APP on your phone for for I I think not. I think you got to use IT inside of apple's experiences for fury that all .

of the custom instruction stuff doesn't work. IT seems like the customer GPT wouldn't work. So there is a lot of stuff like the the access you would get as far as we know through the O S level thing is very limited.

And so the upside for chat g GPT seems applausive. What seems wild to me is how expensive the customer acquisition costs there is going to be. If i'm OpenAI, I can see two things going on here.

One is that OpenAI is going to launch a search product, which I think everybody believes to be true and seems to be true um and it's possible that that is going to be part of this, right? That like maybe one thing apple will be happy to do is kick you to the web through open A S search product. And one very good thing you can do there is have ads.

So there is like there is maybe a version of that, that is like a direct correlation to apple's google deal where when you search, you look at ads and apple get some of that revenue that's very straight forward. That product doesn't exist. We have no idea what it's going to look like.

So who knows? We will see. The other one is this is just like opening eyes, spending a tremendous amount of money, giving you free stuff in the hopes that I can find some way to get you to pay.

And I think it's going to be so fascine to see how apple implements that because you've be able to tell everything you've ever wanted to know about apple's priorities by when he tries to up sell you. You I mean, like if the first time you do at apples, I wouldn't be Better if you had, then it's like, oh, this is a thirty percent company like this. This is what you're after.

You are immediately trying to get me to pay more money to do a thing that you have promised me as baked into the Operating system. Or if apple is like happy to push this all the way out and just make IT a ti, any box you can find and so far away, if you want to, that's very different. And I think that, that tension between these two companies and that product is going to be so weird and so interesting. If this is the actual business dynamic care and .

IT rams up even higher. If you can just switch IT to google, german I or whatever next role in china they have to use, or whatever models come out of europe, whatever. The idea that there is this other architecture beyond apple intelligence that these companies can plg into, and that will drive them customers, sort of also implies that apple believes the economics.

All these problems are subjects. Yes, you plug google, german I into this. I was google gona make money.

What's not apple pay in google? It's hopefully you sign up for germany. I at twenty hours month, right? I don't know that the way IT will actually play out. I think that well.

there's not I mean, I think there's not a lot of risk for apple. And in this right now, like if they're paying for exposure, then if ChatGPT is just sucks and nobody uses IT, right, which probably won't happen but could then is fine apples like, okay yeah there's something that will will close down in a couple of years when everybody stop talking about IT. But if it's like actually takes off, okay, they make money and it's just like, okay, we get free money now like he doesn't feel like there's a huge risk for apple in .

this you know who you sound like x crises. Everyone who argues that apple lisa monopoly that needs to be broken up by anti trust law like true.

I do not agree .

like this is all it's ables as an incredible leverage point where IT has the distribution and nobody else does. And if you're OpenAI and you want to get in front of a lot of people who are not otherwise likely to go to your website or your APP. This is your move and that gives apple all the power in the world.

This is huge for the day. I right like like they have have that first mover advantage and that's IT scale. Everything else, everybody, all the other competitors just have IT all so so like they need what .

expect that there are big competitor is google, that apple has been very clear that google is coming to the same plugging.

Yeah but not yet.

but but not the chip. So this is my second point. So that was point one on apple intelligence. S is IT appears we understand the economics bason mark reporting no one you're feed IT apples. Not saying IT doesn't seem like anyone to open a eyes running her and crunching about a windfall of profits. That's what we know.

So I will say though, everyone I D OpenAI is running around pretty aggressively overstating the extent to which they involved in all of this. They are going to launch people to eating like we're so excited to be working with apple to help power all of the AI experiences on the iphone. And it's like easy boddie like yeah like last resort checkbox kind of situation here like let's pump ed the breaks on what's happening here.

We're so excited to bring voice of scar of your hands in the theory.

but only if you get past three pop ups s this could be great.

You're going to love IT that one is we seemingly understand the economics to actually directly right what you just set out. Um IT is important, I think, to note that no one has seen this work. Yeah there have been some breathing things we've talked about to reporters.

Apple had breaths and they showed a much of stuff on rails. great. The vehicle, the lower control demo yeah ah but having just gone through this with the vision pro in the rabbit made and everything else, and I would just caution everyone that there are are only two kinds of news where the truth just comes out.

One is sports and one is tech products. One team wins or loses you just that you get an answer or the gambling economy forces the but like at the end, you get a result, right? It's like there's not a lot of dispute about what happened at the end of the super ball intact.

The products work or they don't and then real people get them and then all bets are off. And i've said this a million times now in the show this year, all bets off once you start chipping the thing to thousands or millions of people. They're just onna do stuff you never expected. They're going to break IT in extremely exoteric ways. They're difficult not going to .

read the instruction manual. No.

all of your great ideas just fall apart once, like millions of regular people get this stuff, apple is gonna ship this two, a billion people. The Opera line there are in a billion pockets. You all that an oper said, when they sell T, V plus, why do you make this deal with, with, with time, cook, apple, Opera, there are in a billion pockets.

That's a real quote. You can look at up.

Yeah, I remember you put this in a billion pockets. Some weird stuff is gone to start a guarantee you, some weird stuff is gone to start happening a tim cook said the washington post opinion section, we are not one hundred percent shore the in topic high locations and you would never make a claim because because why you can .

do to worry about illumination it's .

y it's just gonna be you sometimes that's what you expect from your iphone is just yeah some creative list Kevin, rules of the event, just waiting to see if intelligence would make love to him. But I saw of the event, I apologized directly to Kevin for getting so much knowledge out of that joke. And he's like, no, everyone is so I, I, I love you, Kevin.

including his family, he said so that it's good for everybody.

Rest is sure he knows. He continued to make the gym. We haven't completely seen the phone hand off from local inference to the private cloud in france that apple wants like we just haven't seen any of this work outside of a very controlled context.

And i'm just just reminding everyone gently, the A I economy so far has largely run on hype and then they ship IT and it's like you should put some glue on your pizza. And i'm not saying apple doesn't a Better track record than everyone else. I'm not saying that it's wrong to to believe that they can out execute most of their competence.

Apple can definitely out execute most of its competitors the last time the company executed most of its competitors and shift the vision pro, which is easily the most technologically annnounced with your heads that ever made. Yes, it's still of the our heads like IT has all of the problems of the category. IT does not have a bunch of really novel solutions to them and is just the best engineered, most complete version of the thing that IT is we have yet to see. So i'm just didn't .

apple also have like the disclaimer of like sometimes that lies yes.

yeah it's interface check to time .

check in t in.

So not things going to work. I I just want to call that out gently, like .

gently.

We have months to go, like maybe even a year or more to go before all of the features we saw demoted W W C ship chip to thousands, if not millions or billions of people. And then a bunch of stuff that no one anticipated happening is going to happen at massive scale. I'll give you an example, uh, casey and platformer wrote, apple is now in the business of context, moderation, scale.

And I were back because I have the absence. He was no, someone's going to asked a thing to draw gun. And apple won't do IT.

And then tim cooks is gonna up in front of congress. That is the level of chaos that is coming for these systems and have to bear the pressure. So doesn't mean we've wanted IT, doesn't mean y're head or rehang IT.

Just means like we came off a very good show and now we have to get the thing. And I keep saying like there's only two categories where you definitively know at the end if IT worked in, not it's sports in tech. Like I would even say a lot of people when I this come here since I politics because there's elections, look around, man, but people don't think that's one of the categories anymore.

I think this would probably be the same thing. Ah I think I think a lot of people we're going to debate IT because you know what, i've heard this a lot. I'm very vocal about thinking hallucinations are an enormous problem and everybody is glossing over them and should stop yeah and I get a lot of comments being .

like don't worry about IT the goal post on allus nations have fully moved ah I noticed recently uh we just have the sea of cohere on the coder. He is one of the people who wrote attention as you need. You could go with the paper that famously described transformers, which google loves to reminding. I read up and I was like, can you can you fix IT if if you program a computer, deliver some answer to you and sometimes it's wrong, like that seems like a bad computer and he was like, well, you get stuff wrong too sure. And he's not that a totally tract cancer, but it's like, that's why I have a computer yeah is to be far more reliable than .

my computer does the math correctly like that I feel pretty .

good about that every single time yeah uh, the example I gave him was like I would not let an l and like adf twenty two cannot be phone without a computer like just like a human being cannot Operate at twenty two fast enough to keep IT stable in flight and so you would just not give IT um he did make the point. The rate of lust coming importantly in the concerns. Apple, apple intelligence is doing such little stuff, they they've scope down what they wanted to do, what they want to be responsible so far. And then anything else is strategy t.

which is which I think that's a smart way to do IT. So I like I think ChatGPT is being hugely responsible but being like yeah uses for everything. But apple, that is a much more responsible like that approach, right, saying, you know what, it's bad at that.

So we're just not gonna IT with some of series. We've improved some a serious .

natural language. But what like halcon ates meetings for you?

Oh, that be great because I could if I could incorporate a lying robot into my meeting. I take IT, uh, but when speaking scoped all way down, this is another really important piece that I didn't even think about what we are there, but gently has a peace on the site. But I will be up by the time you read this. Um the new apple intelligence, the new theory won't work on the home pod IT won't work on the apple TV and IT appears IT will not work with home kit we .

do won't work with home kit at all like the device. This thing makes sense but do not even be part of home kit is really fascinating and seems bad.

I would like fall back to the old theory so you'll be like turn on the lights and I do it's i'm going to net work but the complicated orchestration peace we're like, i'm just talking to my phone and stuff is happening. It's fuzzy.

We don't know that. Is all of this ai a fiction of siri gonna a improve the fact that siri doesn't understand me half the time.

I think this is like the thing that they're .

going to fix this. My impression is that they're going to fix that.

But that is the thing I most confident about with new theory, is that like text to speech and speech to text have gotten very, very, very good, very fast. And I think if apple can't do that Better with theory, IT is just a gigantic failure. Like I have a lot of faith in theory recognition being very good and the transcription stuff being very good, like there is no excuse for that stuff not to be very good and that is really good.

Does this mean that I would work or not work with home kit? I guess we will just have to see.

right? I think the you pick up a phony, open syria and open the garage door that appears like IT will not get routed through the apple intelligence version. That command will get recognized and not go to like .

whatever was and hopefully they have kind of like made all of theory and .

then old serial will say, here's what I found on the web for turn .

on garage yeah we don't know because hasn't shipped. But the idea that hold kit is not yet part of this appears to be like what jane has like that's what he is writing about. And I think that's really fascine because so much of what you want theory to orchestrate, all the examples they get, right? the.

The canonical example is, tell me what time to leave for the airport to go to my daughter dancer title, right? And it's always just like made up the very transactional thing you want to do. Yeah right.

Like i'm gonna go to a place because i'm cool. I have a family and a means of transportation. I leave the house, my daughters and dance class, uh, it's always .

you sleep in a race car bed.

i've got a phone. And but like one thing you would want to do, like tell me when to leave the office to catch the train, also turn on my thermostat yeah right. It's like you would just add that in or like a very common thing, people script in a home kit is like turn away, but I turn to get home. You can see how you would want to have this more complicated conversation about stuff in your house in IT. I that all feels like not yet well.

And that's also one of the big things they're talking about with apple intelligence is context awareness. And the the deep rabid hole of context awareness is like inside of your smart home, right? Like knowing where you are and what you're doing and how you're feeling.

Like that's that's how we get all this stuff going down the road. So I am actually surprised that, that wouldn't be like a flagship feature of this, but y'd really didn't come up at all during the keynote. So I guess i'm not track .

yeah and that is more less with john entire pieces. But by the way, there is also another piece of business insider that came out today rejected are according um about the alexa unit, amazon that is like ring in the bell about how bad alex a is that the stuff and how amazon is under investing in IT and the pivot is just not easy to do. Yeah but you can't have had this thing you like.

We're not turn IT off and here's a somewhat unreliable, extremely horning robot like you're just going like brick a bunch of relaxed devices that people depend on. So IT, IT is a very hard pivot. And you know, because apple is apple, I can just do IT, especially because series.

But I think I feel like most report syria is bad. Yeah, here's a new year warning or let's try that up for a while whei think Alice exists in your house in no and no other contacts and you cannot break people's houses in that way. No, that's enough on the AI stuff. There's a bunch of other stuff that we promise people we will talk about from dub dub, you want to do the small updates yeah.

There's a bunch of stuff that we found like that people have found some we already talked about like the buttons, the volume button. When you press them, there's like a cool little animation and now that I seen .

IT IT looks sick .

just I want to talk about IT i'm fine, it's OK ah but also bingo al typing is gonna be a which am super, super excited about because like some of us speak a little spanglish and IT IT sucks when he tries to auto correct you and you're like, no, I know i'm bad it's but like come on I knew this one so and in what just work in spanishers will work on a lot of other languages and so that's going be like really, really cool um all of the light is like the flashlight. Only on the iphone fifteen pro we will be like control the the beam of IT and like the brightness .

of the interface for IT looks awful cool feature but IT looks insane to try and .

I am excited to watch people use that in the movie. The when they're trying to find their seats. That's gonna be a really fun time. If if they can make like a short cut, you just do like a movie data. O that would um the wages are going to be a little easier to customize, which I think we kind of we saw a little bit of that during the the event. But IT be nice. A west are are like vision pro lover on staff is super excited that he will can see his keyboard now yeah when you like but he puts the headset on he'll able to see his keyboard worse before I guess he just like typed in a bOlivian and hoped he was right yeah.

That's very much of the division for experience til recently.

So let you believe .

so you can use any blue thrace you want. Yes, which incredible feature update for thirty five hundred talk.

And now you can use your own inputs on your computer.

I mean, as we heard tim cooks say markets this week, he loves the magic mouse and it's perfect and nothing has ever been wrong with that. So it's surprising that they would allow this at all. Frankly.

he didn't. I'm sorry, he didn't. I I don't think about this. That was more information about the magic mouse that existed in complex brain at that time. I encourage everyone to go watched that clip.

It's on we posted much as a tweet of that clip. He was like rank product launches and too much so easy ones. And you see like the devil and markets to show you the mass and and you just the Green on his face is very good.

And tim cook, very good. I interview a lot of seas. I watched them scramble.

And you just the dust in that man's brain where he was like, what's in this while company? It's like, magic mouse. And then, yeah, he came up with organics.

He's like, what's a word I can say about mouse? Yeah, he wasn't. We love with the magic.

That's good, very bad.

Like he doesn't stab you when you hold IT. That's the apple design.

Low bar, low bar. And I said there um there's also going to be some new wallpapers that are like very retro looking and look kind of cool. I personally love the one that's the Green yeah I like bring me back to that eighty monitor experience.

We know you know you last week, everyone else knows to.

I just sometimes there's like listeners you might have skipped episode, why but I I want them to know as well. So but they are like animated. They look really sick. So if you got to we did a whole story um kind of chronically a lot of these things and there's a video in there and IT just looks IT looks top yeah like .

the Susan care wallpaper. SHE was a regional mac design arn. They have a lot of her iconography.

It's very cool. It's very, very cool. And then now when somebody leaves you a voice mall, it'll like just transcribe IT. So IT looks like most like a text in you. So that'll be really cool if the transportion actually works because if it's anything like the google transcription, IT does not understand my mom.

interesting.

I also my my best friend who says, mayor, mayor, the same way that the horse in the office, those came up the same way as syria he was telling me yesterday.

cannot compare him that wait he often talks about mayors and horses.

He often talks about the mayor.

The problem is that their confused .

yeah and so it's always like, yeah, there's a lot of mayors in your area and she's like, cool okay.

So just to confirm, you have a friend who calls you and leaves your voice mails about the number of courses in her area.

in her area.

And the problem that we are identified is that serious things that she's talking about, local elected .

officials yeah.

it's just checking in that I understand. I like if you're listening that's right up there with .

max like let's x IT well yes, it's struggles SHE telling me she's got a really strong texas and IT like like theory does not comprehend yeah but then she's got she's speak spanish and he has like a lovely mexican accident and spanish and IT understands IT perfectly so a lot of time she's just like i'm just gona talk to seria finish because otherwise it's going to be like let's talk about elected officials .

I don't know how to save me a horse and spanish.

but if I did rest as sure i'd be doing IT .

right now same I don't know and i'm .

going to to keep IT that as long as possible. Don't tell me, my friend, tell me and I don't care of so. But there's also are going to there's more options for charging to. So I guess you're going to be more like change .

how you want your phone to charge a .

nice because we've been able to do .

that on yeah a lot of android features here.

Just a yeah like everybody. Thanks, apple. I appreciate you bringing parity. Um so there's still a lot more I know people are really looking into. And if you see something who like tag one of us um mainly David.

there's just a lot of like useful quality of life stuff like the now if you if you paste the link into messages, it'll show you the link preview before IT sends the message which is like it's one of those things that I am I onna send a link that is ninety thousand letters long or is he going to do the nice previous thing and now you know, before you send there just there's just a million of those and I think that's great.

I will say the one I am most success, ted, about is that you can make the icons bigger and get rid of the label underneath. So instead of saying, like having the safari logo than saying safari I, or you can have a bigger safari, a logo that doesn't say safari IT looks nice, unbelievable. This is the stuff like, I really, I cannot shake the idea that apple had a hole two hour long wwdc planned that would have just been all this stuff, and they would have told us about all of IT and would have been a very Normal wwdc. And then at the very end they were like, we have to do a ChatGPT thing and just like, blew IT all up. I'm sure that's not what happened, but like we're finding out about much more of what's going on, on these platforms than we typically do after the keynotes in .

apples the last few years, they were doing kind of a thing right where one year would be like small update. It's like they're nice, but smaller and then the next year be like, oh, there's some really sick stuff in here and this year was not going to be one of those years. It's like, okay, we had a kind of smaller year last year, really six stuff this year and then now also apple intelligence. Yeah so I think I am totally in this like theory with you, this conspiracy. David.

all of my productivity nerd friends are so excited that you can now save reminders inside of calendar. Ah I get so much done installing .

audience is freaking out.

literally are. It's very exciting.

but was interesting. Uh, uh j Peters Peters and the virtues back on congratulating and stay. He wrote that the AI upgrade cycles here.

Rapper, so a lot of this stuff would have never driven an incremental upgrade. You got an iphone thirteen. You can see reminders in calendar. You're not buy an iphone sixteen except now maybe apple intelligence is going to make you excited by a new phone and apple is kind of banking on this.

I mean, they need to that like that cycle has gone down, right? Like people who just don't upgrade as often anymore unless their virt listeners in which kids they're like .

who we have eight gigs of RAM, yeah, disgusting. gross. I have more mars than that at home.

Arata, who's that? Arga s does not .

have a gigs of rain. I don't know exactly what kind of insert that is, but I know that to be true. Um no but that the idea of that these features that are cool that we're excited about, I think regular people are gonna experience to be happy about the femme yeah get ready for just a wave of just bananas themes and all of the phones around you because people are excited about those things.

They're not going to if apple gated theme ing to the next generation of phones. one. Now we outrageous would not inspire one person's by new fun.

Yeah, but if they gay, you can talk to theory naturally to the next generation phones. And I can do all this stuff for you. We can make ads about IT and market these new capabilities that might drive the cycle so you can see why they sort of .

like put all the stuff aside. Yeah because did IT for that for the watch the watch. It's like the new update is not going to work with those series four in a series five. So it's just like I think ipad two are affected if the ipad doesn't have an in one and IT, it's not onna .

get a lot of the .

A I features they me they .

got for .

didn't they you could get it's so good, zero regrets. Spend all of your money. You're responsibly I i've fought .

so many speakers this year. I can be behind .

ipad to you just like, no.

it's no more stuff please but .

yeah I like it's very interesting that they are pushing IT this way but they also got me because i'm on on iphone fourteen pro and like.

okay.

yeah and I was just going to hold out for the folding one I just in my heart of hearts, I fully believe it's any day now. And I mean, any year now, not day, but said I will get IT. Do we think apple is running .

out of things to take thirty percent of? And that's that's why where I think .

the european taking away things that can take thirty percent from fair, which is which .

is then IT spins back to now we have to keep selling you and I phone because apple has been on this run for good or for bad of saying, you know, hold on to your hearts for longer like, you know the thing amazon is always, we don't make money when you you make money when you use IT. Uh, apple has always been a hardware company but has increasingly made money when you use IT.

And so I think they've always pushed you to make new stuff, but or to buy a new stuff either. But I don't think IT has been as existentially important for you to ucar your iphone every year as long as apple keeps getting thirty percent of everything you do. But I mean.

they were still feeling the pressure on this. This was like something we would see earnings after earnings after big iphone sip, like I don't everybody .

IT was the service revenue was coming .

up to. I think we got used to that. I think tim cook was always probably .

looking for, okay, what that bills are trying to be. Home has got a lot of plans.

don't don't have like post phone hardware plans. Yeah but yeah.

so that's kind of my point that I think IT does seem like apple in a very real way as back to we have to sell you an iphone as often as possible and IT feels like the move for a bunchy has been away from that. And now IT is like back to that in a real way yeah.

as someone who loves gadgets, I love that. Maybe there will be like cool stuff.

Do you think that's why apple meet the iphone fifteen pro scratch so easily, which is why mine is scratched the bits and now.

desperate need a new one in september if they would just make a phone whose battery consistently landed last year for a whole day, six months. And who would I be? Very happy you're my fifteen process.

Like i'm done. I'm out. You want screen time controls.

What if I don't turn on? That's that OK. Well, you should have break one more thing. I want to call that something. I noticed they are talking about customizing control center.

See others, they added one control from one APP that I thought was very interesting, which was the four pass APP. And you can block your doors and start your car. Turn A C reference controls on our cause.

Four past has think. And then jim farry see afford tweeted, we are excited to part with apple web. I I think there, I think there's, there's, there's G, M, walked away from car play towards getting tired.

Are you think that they're going to make an apple like the apple car.

the brian wind, horst S P. N, like that. Let's see.

I don't have you. I don't have IT all the way, just i'm suggesting that somebody doesn't know this information. They should tell me this .

information in a way that I can report IT. So there's a gun works team inside of ford that .

is building good cars instead of stupid ones.

Red.

what apple there .

actually in the dog file are just apple malls. I'm saying .

jm walked away from car place. And the other giant american automated ker is like, what if we immigrate more tightly with apple software and that is suggestive that they might do something else. And if you are a person who might know what that something else is.

there's in a bundle of phone with a car.

they're they're a bivar, and whatever they look.

you know, buy an ipad, get a mustache, I would do that is a person .

with a used I had, and a used by stag, that there's a super cycle. You know, if you know what, we will take a break, your tack. Support for the show .

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We're back the .

first chest.

I know what you were doing. I just know that there is a button that makes you go from the end of one cycle to the beginning. This gent, much quicker than we think that happens. Welcome sponson lighting, right? Just keep us keep us a fat.

We're just going to start integrating ads at completely unpredictable moments of the there was one, we got a bunch of uh, tweet from somebody, I think that was two weeks ago. And the other, you can see this where the the way the dynamic ads were happening was such that IT we hit a pause and then you said we're back and then the ads right IT was just a perfect like, oh, you thought you knew in the ads were face the now .

that's the pop out of the great, I told IT .

very much.

are lots and lots and lots of gadget news this week, starting with x box, I think. But I I really want to what was going with google and android and criminal dave.

you want to work through all this? Yeah, let's start with x box. Because on tuesday's episode, I promise we are not going to talk about the stupid x box.

I got some questions about with the stupid x box. So let's talk about IT. Basically there. There was an x box event earlier this week, got a little bit overshadow wed by w dc, but lots of interesting stuff, new games, all kinds stuff. But I think for our purposes, the two big gadgets that were talked about where, uh, a new weight discs series x which looks very nice and is inexplicably not looking into the holidays, it's just like a thing that is should be sitting there and for some reason.

they're not shipping in for eight months, no internal upgrades.

It's just yeah just give me.

give me IT yes, cool.

It's so weird anyway. Uh, but I think the way more interesting thing is, uh, full sensor who runs x box at microsoft a has been, I would say, like aggressively and loudly hinting that microsoft is going to build a hand held gaming device for a long time and then just said out loud in an interview, I believe with the ign uh quote, I think we should have a hand held to so like there is basically like this is this is a time we're doing software.

We're talking about games. They also talked about bringing more games to other platforms, which made a lot of experts, people mad in the way that I did before. But he's just there just making a handheld like it's just coming.

I think the the big difference series, we've heard these rumors about a hand held from them for ages, right? Like when they were really pushing cloud as gaming right after the the xx series x was launched, everybody like, okay, are they going to do like a cool cloud console? And then that didn't happen because of the cloud.

Gaming stuff just didn't kind of take off as they wanted right there. The result the streaming box got killed. And so all this stuff got killed a couple of years ago and that's like, okay, you're you're going to make a hand held now.

cool. You've been saying that for like half a decade at this point. But the difference now is that sounds like it's going to run windows in that room dream. And as someone who uses these little councils that awesome because current version of like windows on one, these little game councils sucks.

Now, what makes us confident that microsoft can overcome the nature of running windows on a hand top?

Nothing I ve heard about our our lord and .

savior ARM processors.

Yeah, I the arms, I think the games well, guess you can .

run down steam. Tomcat presses down down, right. And and so the the idea here is that I would do this. We've also, we were hearing rumors about like and video getting back into the ARM stuff they used to do the the t grow, which notably powers the switch. Um there's also media attack, you know everybody knows .

media attack media tech fifty arms of you right now.

Yeah probably then like five fifty inches .

there everywhere you are, there's a media production processor. You that T V right there guarantee there's hundred percent .

you guys can see that, but there's a TV there in a definite has media check in IT. But but media tech is also like gonna doing the process or if and and doing ARM processors. And there's even rumors know.

just to be clear, they already because they're everywhere, they want to make good. Yes.

thank you. Thank you. That is an important clarification. They already make ARM processors.

Now they want to make ones that don't suck. And and there's rumors that they might be partnering with in video. There's something happening there.

So like the potential for the media, tech and video combo is like a boy that dude prays a lot of money you right like that's .

not a yeah that that .

is in video being .

heart saying he right heroes there's a movie called she's out of my way yeah this is accurate.

this is accurate. But but I think that kind of all is is what driving some of this lake hype for a new xbox angled console is there is a lot of potential that could change, but they also have to make windows not suck visually. No, I don't care about how IT runs.

IT needs to not so just n run the x box APP done. It's just sitting there like all that often are, is just sitting there that microsoft could do IT and IT just hasn't.

For some reason we can. Theoretically, the x box itself is running a version of windows.

remember? Yeah.

and they just cut IT down to run one apple, right? Yeah.

they could do that again. And then all of these other councils, which suck so much with full windows on them, could suck less. That's what I really want. If you can tell there's stuff already out there that's really sick in the software is garbage.

So that's the thing, right? And I think to me, the reason this is very exciting is that um we really haven't had SONY or microsoft make a really, truly like first class competitive .

hand hood .

lap A I mean.

come on, the PSP was incredible. IT was.

I don't doubt six hundred and fifty years ago.

did you a lot of movies on your PSP?

No, no. But they had a Sunny this at like .

a custom you .

those the days mega base.

by the way, shout out to all the people wondering who best wise setting the photos of your speakers. There's a SONY marketing personally like this is off the charts and that's because of us the chart was flat line. But just to be clear, the but we're doing IT.

we're making a difference.

Just see that liked that so weird and nobody ever presses the button. Yeah six people press the button. What's happening? Um was that was all the xbox stuff.

Uh my guess would be it's there there's I just feel like a few full spor. You don't say that if there's not something happening, yeah he is a relative near future. Yeah yes.

And he's been he's been sort of sneaky about this like he's liked tweet and and has sort of intimated that this is a thing that he thinks is interesting. But I think you look at the continued success of the steam deck, the fact that nintendo do has a switch to coming that everybody's excited about like this. This idea is not going away like I think handheld gaming is going to be the next big thing for a very long time. And IT seems very clear that microsoft also believes that. But they will also happily give you a weight version of the same thing they already have seven months from now, if that's what you'd rather have.

A great microsoft film has been very directly. We did not do well in this generation, the consolers. This is why we had to go buy activision and like, figure out a way to compete.

We just did an episode flash parish about the game market and he was like, that's top PC gaming is going down. And then a million people read us an email to point out that it's going up. If you can't the steam deck, right, like that's where the growth is that part of the market.

So if you're fill in your like, okay, we're not going to magically start a new coal generation tomorrow and win against SONY in its various advantages. We are looking in intendo going to launch a switch to I really hope they call the superintendent switch for the way. Um would be great.

That would be a dominant moment. Where are we going ing worth the action. The action is a mobile good. We bought Candy crush, settled and well in the action is in these handles where we're getting growth against pcs, gaming pcs or I think like we can maybe get some action there.

And also a lot of likes the switches. Success has been on the backs of indie developers, right? And and microsoft, actually, this is a pretty good relationship with india developers. They put a lot of these games out on on their the x box in general.

And people like I would like to play that on my hand told and maybe not the switch, but and that would be like, oh, I can play big triple A X box games that art exclusive because xbox apparently doesn't make exclusive games anymore. And you can play like hates to that. Would that be sick?

I think the existing games tragedy didn't sell off x boxes. It's like the other way around. They're like fine to play our games in P.

S. life. Yeah they buy some stuff in this game will be happy.

yes, because all the ones that they want to make exclusive, the ftc will be like, sorry, what?

yes. Now, now they are other problems. Yeah, anyway, I the idea that they made a way I want to just want sell IT is like, this is your big holiday marketing push. Build demand for the right one kills me.

kills me. Anyway, the next one I wants to talk about what are just rolling through graduation here is job a um which put me on a real like emotional roller coaster.

This week, IT launched a pair of headphones, two pairs of headphones, the elite ten and elite eight active new versions of IT with a very cool feature that I was very excited to talk about on the show and then promptly announced that they're not making headphone within a couple of hours. They really hears this open thing that we may never mind. Work out. goodbye.

Well, they're so making IT, it's still going to come, but that's IT right. They support these .

for the next few years. And on the one hand, him like, okay, do I need like ongoing software support from my bluetooth headphone manufacturer? Like, not really. But never the last death nails of a company's had phone lineup seemed like a silly thing to recommend.

What's the cool feature? So the whole feature is the these are wireless earbuds, uh, and they come in case, and you can plug in the case to an audio source. Uh, you can with a head, you can plug .

in into the from.

Yeah, they're loose, transparent and so they're y'll turn any wired thing into a blue ee thing that then streams directly to your your buts this .

would have been great, like years ago when plane still had.

no, I do not.

What do I was .

on the united fate yesterday? And not only did they have a screen that the screens had blue tooth and you could pair your airports to the screen, but if you had ever done IT before on a united flight, the first thing you had to do was going and forget IT more than go repair. So this poor flaid attended had to give us like a four minute speech about how to connect your airports to the screen in front of you. But it's the thing you could do IT. IT was the first time I had ever encounter that.

and I was very exciting. Well, now i'm just disappointed in alaska.

american, that united is a trash airline. With one good plane was, I was a experience.

So if you were just on the one plane.

on the one good plan.

where can I issue a very, very small complaint about delta? Yes, they are actually, in general, a thing that I think should be legal. Because I flew him about the, uh, they had infinity war, but not in game.

And because you get on the plane, GUI got to kill five hours. And that sitting right there for you, you're not in and out. Yeah, I was shown outside one too many drinks playing home.

You know when to fight to start the afternoon ending late the evening I arrived. This, you have to have both. I think in a country, get involved.

You have to have both. Yeah, that is consumer protection right there. Even though I seen both these movies.

I like, do you know what happens?

I I believe you know, the events do a good job. Lari .

recaps .

soon. New seven.

in the first one, they don't do a good job. And in the second one.

they do a good job that that was a really good spoiler for I appreciate I did for the first one but .

if you haven't seen the first one, you get on because that's all the good ah I am actually I was talking to Chris. Watch about this story yesterday. And little, little part was there. And SHE was, like, I believe, taking the headphone jack away from phones LED to the proliferation of people just listening to stuff out loud on their front.

The IT is the poto take. Yes.

she's she's correct.

Because the path train people are like .

now you just like, I like ending you.

You're to enjoy whatever i'm enjoy and suck.

if right. New idea for phone. No speakers, just headphone jacks.

Yes, there is your courage. Apple, don't headphone jack. Get rid of the speakers.

You give me a power button and no speakers on my phone done. Let's do this. I'm ready.

The opposite, like the chiller nightmare, is like wakes happening, called. So is like what's happening. Uh, speaking of weird phones, the light phone people love talking about this phone. They do not love buying IT from what I can understand. They love looking at IT and talking about a David, you saw the light from three.

I haven't seen that i've over zoom, uh, but I I talked to tighten the cofounder of the company and i've talked to him a bunch over the years. The weird thing about the lie phone too was that I was never a huge hit. But also according to him, IT has sold more units every year.

IT has been around this is five years old, and it's sold more this past year than IT in its first year, which I think is fascinating and is not something you Normally from a phone. And they are in this position now of the the sort of intellectual idea that I would like to change my relationship with the my own phone, I think is bigger than ever. We are also more invested in our smart phones than ever.

And so what they tried to do was basically figured, okay, how do we get away from the idea that, like what you need is a phone that doesn't do anything at all and give you a phone that just does the right things and not the wrong things? And actually, that is like the dream of the sort of minimalist smartphone and has been forever. And there are a lot of people who say, oh, why do you need any of this stuff, just like have more discipline and be more responsible on your phone, which I say that a stupid argument, it's true.

But it's also like if just discipline was the answer to all of our problem, like the words would be a really different place. And what is actually is, is like the one good thing about the social dilema, which is an otherwise, I think, disaster of a documentary, uh, was that IT framed the ideas like you against thousands of engineers trying to destroy you. And I think that is like a pretty correct way to think about your smart phone.

And so light phones ideas like how do we just reset that baLance, right? They've they added a camera but gave that camera much less to do. Uh, they added NFC, but they're only going to do payments with IT. They have a Better screen.

But because apparently people are having trouble with ink like one of these is guy I said to me, was that the single biggest issue people had with the phone that like fifty percent of the reason people return IT or stop using IT was because of the refresher ate of ink, which I thought was really anything. There's just something about IT that just didn't work for people. So instead this which to a map OLED, which should refreshments faster, should be more easier to cyber one should look out Better, uh, but should have some of those same kind of monogram, not quite so baring properties .

in battery life support, right?

Because see about that, the life on too lasted forever. This thing is it's substantially bigger. So IT definitely has more battery, but IT doesn't n that screen.

But it's not doing all that much with IT most of the time. And since I don't LED IT shouldn't even have to power some of the pixel and not the others. I I reasonably high hopes for this thing. Uh, but at least according to the traffic to our website, people are very interested in this thing.

IT looks like I don't need IT and I want IT I will never use IT. I know that, but i'm still like .

so I would love to get to a place where I could just take up phone out of the house depending on my mood like sunglasses yeah I just like have my phone of bird and take my messages. And like I don't think any of the Carriers or smartphone Operating system vendors or smart phone makers want that happen. And it's funny because if he did happen, I would buy like six phones.

So the reason is the Carriers, I have been like meaning to write a piece and I need to just sit down and write IT, that the reason dump ones won't work is because verizon won't let them. Ah i've had this moment recently actually where I I got the new ipad pro and just turned IT on logging into my eyes cloud account and all of this and I had lt on IT and IT was like the most magical experience and I was I was my data is connected to my account that IT was just like was like, oh, because all this em stuff works.

I just have all of my stuff on this new device and IT is connected through my account and it's like, oh, that's how all of this should work and I just super dozen and even you go to place a europe pe where like sal sim cards are much more important than you can just pop your Simon and popular and do another thing and that kind of works. It's just not how works in the U. S.

And IT sucks. And and so as a result, I think what light is trying to do is bia phone that actually becomes your primary, do you like I think the light phone plus laptop or light phone plus ipad is very much the thing that they're going for. They want you to have this sort simple, minimal thing that goes in your pocket that has like music and podcasts and directions, and that's about IT. And then if you want to do more stuff, you sit down at something else and think in a certain way that's actually like a much healthier er way to use technology and to think about all of that. But it's probably I mean, it's not not probably IT is definitely still not realistic .

for most people. Do they show you a like the photo that I just want to know is showing photos in color or motor?

M, I don't know. That's a really good time. I would assume it's showing them in monogram um because what and he said this, uh, very win that they don't want you spending a lot of time on your device looking at photos. Apparently the thing that they heard, one of the biggest they put the camera on was to have A Q R cosco NER. And that makes people like to take presumes of proceeds s and it's just like the little sort of toothy things you need to do with the camera, rather than, I want a thing to take lot of beautiful photos.

They are like their ideas again, like you should not be looking at your screen very often and even when you're looking at something through IT, you're still looking at IT, right? And so yeah the way he described that is like it's about documenting, not about like fiddling um and so my again, I haven't seen IT. There's things that shipping till next year, which is a robust er um but yeah exactly but I think the the idea definitely seems to be like get in and get out as quickly as possible.

I'm utterly fascinated this, but I just laughing at the idea of IT. A good computing outcome is you have a pretty useless phone and then an ipad. And at some point, you're just like none of the shit can do anything. I mean, ipad get down on this. Ipad not do a whole lot.

Not looking .

at instagram of um it's very good. But the idea that you would like pick up a phone, like push a button that's like, this is my phone right now. Take my calls and my messages yeah you should be able to get there.

Yes.

but you you can switch between laptops more easily. You can switch between phones and some. It's Carriers because of film numbers and where you know that calls and somebody is R C, S and I messages and all .

that sort of like an even switching what up. Tivo is a pain. It's but it's still tough yeah but that .

is like ultimately the dream and and maybe apple needs to make the cut down phone or just make you easier to put an iphone into a world like this.

Apple will never do that unless they can figure out thirty.

thirty for two months will .

give you a chill phone. Inside of your .

phone you know given the interest in the light .

phone yeah it's real in the so I I we should keep ex the next thing on my list is literally um I should have just put these two links as just ask cranes is any of this anything? Uh, two different chip stories. One is basically media attack.

Are the the flower of the verge? Our father vorth chip company is claiming it's out here doing quite ham level things. And everybody is out here basically being like we now have fast chips too yeah and then there is this company, flow computing, that just publish the weight paper being like we haven't made any of these chips but we know how to make chips .

that are one hundred times faster er yeah the flow thing is interesting in that they're basically saying we want to compete with ARM and you you buy our engineering that we have never actually and you go and cool .

yeah that's my idea too. So I if you want to make a chip one hundred fester y you just come talk to me and then you do the work.

Yes, but now is gonna like, yeah, that looks good. Yeah, good.

Do you have an idea for a building? You bring your architect to me. I will describe that building to them an extraordinary.

because they are the architects, and they are looking for someone to go build the building .

now that that's Normal, that's much more Normal than I think what this is.

Yeah yeah, I guess IT isn't a weird poh.

I don't know what it's one level away from like we've done IT more like we have an idea, do IT. Yeah.

we know the architect firm we wanna hire ah and it's you .

and it's you .

and then also can you find someone to build this? So yeah, that one is very interesting. Their claims are really, really big. I know a lot of people are talking about right now and trying to figure out if IT is anything, and I think it's a little bit of the verdict that is still out there.

Idea here is that they have a new thing, ero processing unit that IT can be inside or outside the trip. Um then you can run parallel workloads through that much faster than any other chip that exists today. This is the core of the claim.

yes, but it's also weigh d because parallel processing is having kind of a moment right now or that people are rethinking IT. Um so there's just, I want to say, verdict to stir a little out on this just because most of I I know enough to be like.

yeah I want to stay in that heads base until prove them otherwise yeah but I think the the media attacking potentially exciting like there's no reason and everyone couldn't start making good ARM chips like if this is the thing that out there more power to look .

anytime somebody is saying, hey, let's compete, that's always good, right? Even though it's media attack and they are not known for their super powerful s uh, this is it's gonna be kind of cool because they're in that that they'll be as fast, they'll be capable of doing copilot theses. And that means that they have to do at their in pu has to do at least forty tops.

And what we still don't fully understand what tops means in this context that is still like forty is the number microsoft gave everybody. And so if if media attack can get there went like even apple, the in four, they were climb to thirty eight. So if media that I can do that, cool, great. Will companies put this in.

we'll see what your thoughts on tops in this context.

Me, I wow you guys. I know what you can do, a thirteen task.

I think .

given an answer.

you go to fire island.

Well, there the title, the episode .

that no no I do I actually have a real none .

ah what what is family answer? What is thirteen trillionth Operations per second?

So had had someone wrote to us not about the other interpretation of what you can do with an incremental.

we should say lots of people vote to us about .

the other interpretation yeah, of people made jokes about one thing. Although I will say that no, regardless of context, no one has said what you can do going from thirty five, thirty eight. Just saying that's fair, hasn't been proven out yet.

But hey, the raza pie has thirteen trillion Operations for set. We like why? So we got a new email from Scott uh, and he's like, look, there are lots of I O T applications where you have a sensor like a camera, and you want to know what happens.

So the sensor detects a motion in a parking lot, you know, like, is at the right car, and you can take a picture of the camera. The sensor fires the camera, and then you gotta send a bunch of data somewhere to do image recognition. And if you can bring IT down to the edge, you're only sending bites of dat instead of my bites of date.

Okay.

that's that's a good one.

That's a good one. That's extremely good. Yeah.

good. I'll take.

yeah.

I think the idea that there is some sort of like race to put all of like that's a great, that's a great workload.

I like, I like IT.

yeah. You can see how people can do all the stuff in all kinds of places. But microsoft is like this is how many you need having they have.

Not that even that example we can detect a car. Like that's the that's fundamentally the example. We this computer can not recognize a car, a parking lot. Microsoft has has not come up with one of those things on a windows PC for consumers that matters yet.

I can recognize the .

car in a parking. So many people can recognize the car of parking. A lot of them. It's no. But microsoft is just out there being like need this many because it's going unlock what .

exactly the future down the line. Don't not right now, just the future.

Lastly, we should talk about before a break a is this bit of google news that is either a small piece of news that ultimately doesn't matter that much, or the like little tiny butterfly flap of something sort of enormous, uh, and basically the news is google announced that is going to be putting a lot more of the underlying android stack inside of chromos.

So essentially, I slowly but surely they're going to build chromos s to resemble android in such a way that they can build stuff faster that will work on both platforms. I find this fascinating because there are a lots of rumors that say, essentially what I mean, there have been rumors for jesus, like a decade, saying that google is going to merge chromos and android. Was that fushi? I can go remember all the coins? okay?

So there is fuser, which was, I think, even showed up on like a random next device or something in the neck I killed. But these things have been separate projects that should never have been separate projects. And then there have been rumors that there's going to be some combination of them that gives you like a desktop mode on your android phones that essentially looks like chromo s and it's just all these little pieces are coming together that is like maybe we're actually going to get this cross device, single thing combination that we should have had a really long time ago.

Do I disagree with you?

really? Tell me yeah.

I mean, that sounds like how would complicated you want a chrome book to be in the end, right? So like an android phone, this a lot, right. Has like a full APP model, has a bunch of capabilities.

IT is just a IT has interface metaphors go over, right? It's it's more of a computer actually chrome book, yes, which initially was linux running chrome and the whole model was like all you need is a browser. Then I think they realized and and I think that's great.

I think for a lot of people that is actually what you need. But then you got to add things like windowing and background absent, but and you end up being like, uh, should we made a computer now the thing is just windows with the ad model instead of win thirty two is crime. And then you like, but we have the thing, we should put that one another apps.

We need to put google now in here because that's what we decided to. And I look, whatever, and you just like end up junking up chromos. And so then you come to this like final place where like it's just an android laptop.

Yeah okay.

like fine. But you're just I think you're just so far a field of the initial vision for that product.

But the initial vision for that product was kind of bad in that. Not not like that, just this is a browser go forth. I think that was a great vision.

Execution was bad because he was always like, oh, the idea is that it's only the browser, therefore is super cheap. But that cheap ess also meant your monitor was garbage, keyboard was garbage, everything was garbage. And so people keep saying what? I want a more power like, I don't want you to be garbage.

I would like a pretty display. And then, okay, well, that's going to cost you more money. And so I just kind of crept up .

and then you go, oh, what? But it's only a browser. Why would I pay all that money?

And then IT is always this this fight back and fourth. And so I was, I think for a long time it's been like, just make IT angered guys come on like, stop, stop, mess around. You're not doing this other thing that was a really cool idea that doesn't actually exist in a world where you have different partners who want money for the things they provide you to put into that computer.

Yeah, I look at is one of the few people in the world is are about a thousand other crab pixel. Uh, IT worked really well when you throw windows like high and windows horsepower at IT. Yeah, like that chromos fixed. I believe in. I like sixteen years and that .

so I was beast.

So I was great for IT and still going my mois IT. Uh, but no one's to spend that much because that you think you need A A whole computer. But I would chAllenge you looking at my mac right now, chrome and the like, mostly you .

just screen shot.

You can make him go away. Oh.

that is really upsetting or .

just just an open stack of but like the only native APP really in my dog is light room. And like most are not running light room. And you just look at that.

So this is just a bunch of electronics, fine, but I don't think google mean google. But what else have to set like they never ran the idea to completion and use. So now they're shuffling up all those teams, right? David burke, rain, android for a long time is gone as that today that needs broke today.

Her roy, who is in charge, the whole thing left right he's he's off to finding himself and some other project to google um in like there's a shfs ling up those teams and this seems like a natural outcome of that. You were a call like the year ago or two years ago. Ther like android tablets are going to make a comeback because of folding devices. A the pixel .

tablet is cool than people think. That's that's my hard take for the day. But I will say, I mean, on this one, I think the google sort of stated reason for doing this is that lets them roll out A I stuff across these two platforms faster.

And I think that's fair, right? Like you you look at some of the stuff google already doing with chrome c plus devices like the IT has the journal AI wall paper and the magic eda and google photos like that if you want to do on device as much as you can. And so building that into the deck for both of those platforms makes a lot of sense.

A near to your point, I am very bullish about this combination for android phones, and i'm very skeptical about IT for crop x. So i'm kind of with you in that like the idea of being able to blow up my android phone, whether it's for android tablets or fulda devices or whatever, like a thing that gets more chromos the bigger IT gets, I find very compelling. But A A chrome book that looks more like android is an experiment that google has tried many times and IT has typically gone very actly.

right? Because android developers do not want to put their personal lives up in that way.

right? And and it's and IT requires a huge amount of work to do IT well. And when you don't do IT well, that kind of sucks and that also doesn't get done well. And I yes, so I agree. I think this is A A thing that for chrome, ooks is gonna be complicated if we are in fact getting this sort of big combined user interface thing that might happen here or google is telling the truth. This is just like the bottom of the text tag so that they can get g mails, helps me write to run four percent faster on your company, which is fine.

Love the idea that they're onna put like full android on on a cromme book and then just completely dumb down just like, no, you only open the chrome out. That would be history.

They have been .

there before yeah know what about that? Is the chrome APP for android is so, so, so much worse than chrome on chrome x that like that? What an unbelievable chrome book down downed. That would be if IT.

Yeah, because I had to make chrome on chrome a real brazil, right? Because that is the application .

best version of chrome that exists in the world.

Yeah I know a lot of designers who run figura in expensive from books. An expensive is like a but they but they just like don't have mac books anymore. They're just like we just we live in fig by I have a chrome book or a so to have chrome boxes, that crime just up fancy honors and that's just seen that.

And it's like that the application model. And if you bring a browser of that capability to a phone or a tablet, you can take your thirty percent anymore and that and that's why the ipad browser socks everybody all. And that's also why android tablets have the not great version of chrome. Instead of the crime version of crime, there's no reason a powerful samsung abot shouldn't run full on crime. Same business pressure exists yeah anyway, that's totally separate.

It's fine.

Thirty percent. Bringing me as your case actually apple uh, in google, I would pay a subscription fee for a full dep class browser on my mode devices. That be one thing. You want to get me to pay a subject tion fee for apple one or google one.

But what if it's the same garbage?

No, IT has be the good IT .

has be a good brothers.

What if instead of a browser, it's just a chat bott that lies to you? Can I interesting on that instead?

Is IT sexy? alright? We got to break ready. We're right back with line in ground.

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I or back, I will say that there was not as much horny ss in the history of the verge test until A.

I hit the scene. true.

We've done the show for thirteen years. You know, wide variety of people. David has come and gone from the show. I returned. It's only until a eye hit and honestly, cranks that just like buds.

there were even really funny. Man, there are just, people are given me like beautiful horses.

I thought that worse is not beautiful. There's also a shocking increase in the amount, of course.

talks and sales showed up. It's the friend that the mayors and the mayors .

it's time for the letting around is always unsponsored. This is your shot, right? I look the i'll sell out.

You just tell me what to say. You show up. No one's far gun.

It's a problem. All right. Then what's your living around that?

Ah I think I want to talk about this survey that builded about how people get news on social media platforms. Uh, we've talked obviously a lot about this. This is like the only thing anyone on threats ever talks about is news on threats because of mossy like keep saying how much he hates news but loves news but hates IT but doesn't want IT but loves IT.

Um and so pew did a study basically looking at for platform so is ux, tiktok, facebook, instagram and essentially asked people, do you get news on this platform and is IT like a primary reason you come here. And the numbers are sort of fascinating, like in almost every case, like i'm looking at this out, over eighty percent of people on all platforms see news content on all four of those platforms. So like on on x uh, they call IT news related content and it's it's sort of like news and news of jaccard things.

And sixty two percent of people on x reported seeing IT. IT was ninety and ninety one for tiktok in facebook inside in the lowest at eighty two percent, all huge numbers um but in almost every case, most people said it's not the primary reason they go to the platform. Uh, x was the exception.

Two thirds of people said IT was either way. I think that was a major or minor reason to go. But take talk, facebook and instagram all somewhere between like thirty and forty percent of people said that even a reason they think about going to those platforms, which I just think is very telling, right?

We talk a lot about news, and these companies keep telling us news is a tiny percentage of what people do, and people don't actually care. They're not here for news. And the only people who care about news of the people who report on the news, and everybody should shut up about the news for once.

This was I just thought this was a really interesting a way of looking at that. And pu has also come out and said over and over and over again that for Young people in particular, tiktok is where they're seeing a lot of their news, even if they are not seeking IT out that how news finds them. So there's like there's just the amount of like accidental news consumption that is happening on social media right now just fascinated me, especially an election year. All of this is going to be very weird. I particularly .

because the news isn't always package well, right like like it's always it's frequently .

packaged as possible.

Go uh so mine .

is a bunch you want stuff um so one is the Victory lab for me you want dropped his loss gan opening, I shock because he can have a contract .

and I super told you .

so just you if you could you. you.

If he wanted to, he would, yeah.

did he did? So whatever I do, if you want to see someone come up with a good idea, one but two bunch of stuff about space ex this week, the cultural, its space sex, the actions towards women, its space sex, the sexes culture its space ex uh in two stories one the all three journal uh big expose a talk to a number of people in the the second one um a lawsuit from foregone space ex employees saying the culture of harassment we wrote them both that right what you do and the headline we wrote on the whilst china one was not as just aggressive as people wanted uh and I guess tweets about IT and just like we have to be really careful um when we have to tell lies, especially when it's not our reporting, right we're we're talking about a lot regal story and if you look at all journal story, the john store is very carefully reported and that is mostly about one woman in in turn who lawyer up with the same lawyer as elon in space ex to refute the story and SHE sent a bunch affidavit tn, which confirmed some of the reporting of the story.

But she's like none of this story, which is weird, like the construction. That story is weird in the thing you're saying, David is like people in kind of their news and then thing access saying is that new is that news is not packaged. Well, what ever wanted us to say was like, look at how bad this is. And indeed, there's a lot of bad stuff in that he rolled around your own company. Mean, like will you have my babies?

Don't then retell against .

the woman who say no. Like that is very bad when the president, your company, who is a woman, retaliate against a woman who was helping to plan your birth day party because he suspected that the phone call from the husband to the woman was evidence of an affair as opposed to the planning of a birthday party. That bananas, yes, maybe actually a Better right birthday party of fair situation in space x bananas um but this tendency to over read the news for maximum emotional value, or to assign some emotional value to something, even if that's not what the evidence they knew that that that is the thing social media as IT is in particular the thing that threads does because that is how you get engaged in that algorithms is no news there. Adam msy is like we refuse.

He is like.

we just want you know people to talk about a politics like we don't want people to talk about politics. We just want them to talk about, you know, things that are not politics, like sports and fashion and it's like, don't OK there's no politics .

and sports famously yeah no, no politics there.

Either of those nothing about the fashion industry is anything to do with the way the world works now anyhow, then you look at the threads out of minutes, like just rage bate, like that is algorithm ally. What IT will .

show you is like old rage by lately.

And I just like that little bit where it's like art. The people that are being served here, you are being careful, and maybe we are too careful. And except that criticism, when I thought, I don't think you can, that our story in my lives, by the way, like the virgin liza poto, are too easy.

And elon mosque is a very hard case to make based on our work. We are careful because we want our shots to land, and we are especially careful with other people's reporting, right? That's just the way goes.

But I would just say like what social media has done is allowed a lot of people who don't have to practice that here to participate. The media ecosystem, which is great, but IT is also like where I think people are confused, accidently encounter a lot of news, but you you there's not the part of the other end. What's like I know how this is made or I am being careful. It's like if you optimized engagement, you will get engagement .

yeah and often times that engagement is done to like it's just really explosive, right? Like is just I see IT on on tiktok a lot because I went through was like we were hearing about of different news was popping up on tiktok. I went like search that news.

So now my feet is just all of that news and the stuff the rhetoric is really heated. The rhetoric c is very different than how you would Normally report on a story where you would be really cautious and careful without every single part of IT and said, it's just like, all these people suck. This is evidence.

Let's just get into IT. And like, well, no, you can't. That's not how you cover this stuff. And there's a lot of reasons we cover IT that way. But because we want to be accurate and honest because we want yeah, yeah, there's just a bunch of reasons to do IT. And and these people don't seem to have the same concerns.

But there's also so think one of the things that really jumped out to me in this p city was that I think across platforms somewhere between like half and three quarters of people said they pretty frequently see inaccurate news on those platforms. And at some point the only response to that is just total nalty m right? Like you just assume nothing is real, everything is chaos.

You you can't trust anything, you can't believe anything. This all came to you by accident, right? Like it's it's killing the idea of slick sitting down and reading the news like that as a behavior that people do on purpose is dying because this stuff is just bombarding at you all the time.

And so like it's hard to be a news consumer now. And so I think all these people, especially when these things are coming up, they're used to that and flame right there used to have to suffer wrong anyway. And so you don't know the prevents, you don't know how the stuff works. You don't this story, it's just all sorts happening around you. And it's like how on earth you supposed to make heads or tails of anything in that ecosystem?

What is the what is the source of truth, right? Like all these platform, as I want to say, they don't want to be orbiting the truth. Mark are famous.

Ly, I don't want to be at the orbit of the truth, but then you need a place to go. But that's what media solutions are, sturdy, and not any of us. The shot of this like that is the thing that we have allowed to wither away in the platform era. But its stories like this, like if you go look at the comments to the wall state journal ticket, the comments are full of people being like this is a high piece, right? Like their own comments section is a disaster of people being like I don't I didn't read this.

I think it's bushed because we have now conditioned about people because of social media to believe that everything is overdone or uh sensationalized or just done for outrage or just one for clock in in this case, what you're looking at is, boy, that culture, its basic, appears to be a disaster like from top to bottom. There are a whole bunch of very unhappy women. There are women who have been retaliated against by the most senior woman of the company.

We none of this is like when I first saw the story, I was like, oh, didn't recover this already because because you ve seen this story from space x before laun rush used to cover IT a lot for us and and to just see IT crop up again as like and others .

all the traditional reporting the journal where it's like just like again, if you're listened to the same thing I try and company in, one thing you should not do is walk around your company asking employees if they will have your children, just don't do IT. So IT feels like a very basic rule that we have to let out at this time. It's not a rule with peers to reply to one against two. There are credible allegations that women who accused of such a harassment he responded to to by offering her horse IT does come back to horse is a lot of project on that note.

Alex actually have a question for you. What's your relenting ranting?

MEllie ting round thing is also related to horses. Yeah, did you guys ever you guys go to alma draft house either on .

you all there? They just opened one like a mile from me maybe a year ago. And it's now I go to movie theaters.

So i'm going to be real old right now in my chinese. I spent a lot of time in Austin, texas, which is where element draft house started. I went to a lot of screenings, went to a lot of parties when a lot of things sort of new. Tim league.

the one that's also like a movie museum and they have like the most incredible collection of old stuff for movies.

the the alamo draft house.

I think that.

but I don't one of them might be. There's one to different ones. Some have come. They've gone IT is great every time I go to host. And now i'm like, oh, that draft house is closed and I want saw people run for their lives because they didn't want to talk to the audience because we were so mad at them about the movie.

IT was super cool, but gipsy tapes, but but so alo, draft house, famous, famous institution, one of like kind of the core movie theater franchise, and very terminally online. IT ran its own blog for years. Bad asked, I just IT really IT was famously as huge friends with Harry knows who like the regional movie blogger, we don't talk about him anymore.

You can go wikipedia why um and and they have been in a lot of trouble the last few years. There were allegations of um labor issues there in sexual harassment and and lots of sorts of things and then covered hit. And they, like every movie theater or for company, got bodied really, really badly.

They filed for bankruptcy into one, two, twenty one whole new like we ork happened, got in a bunch of investors. Tim league was still in charge then last week, I believe they suddenly closed to home on to their, uh, theatres in dallas. And that was a real bummer because I was planning to go to them and IT was it's fine.

I'm through IT. And then this week they announced that SONY has purchased them. So so yeah, alamo is now going to be completely owned by SONY.

I assume you're going to see some SONY movies there, but you should probably still see all the other ones because like disney still has the the biggest market share of films in. I don't think is like see me I don't think ellia is going to be like no where i'm onna screen a star war. But I think .

the a netflix zones, a bunch of theatres and I do limited theatrical runs. Because I ve got to keep this starts happy awards .

ah it's all for wards.

I think SONY actually wants to like have a chain of movie theatres. I think it's very different.

IT is very different. Like SONY is just like, no, we want this to be a business again. And there was a reason IT was not allowed to be a business.

And in though the raise different of the parameter c were huge, right? Like we got independent film. We got we got more clear film.

We got more women in films, more people of color in films. There was just like the situation was illegal to show on film, and then the paramount decree came out and they started to soft. And those rules a little IT took a long time.

But there's just the parameter. Gree was very, very important for competition in the film making industry. And the fact that IT has gone now, he's always been kind of a bummer even though streaming has really taken a lot of the audience in zone's like, okay, we're just gna follow back in sixteen thirty eight.

Well, yeah, it's just to make the argument. Times of radical changed. Ah, there is not a booming theatrical business clinic.

Does my draft even exist? Unless the studio x ony shows like ony doesn't have a streamer, they have crunchy roll only picture court. I was like, Robin core.

how just rise up, just really hurt yourself there.

But they were like, do you want to watch mam and eighty mea per second and I said, no.

So the only way to do that is going to be at an imo draft house like.

get two A M A little drunk.

I think the institution question you lies no IT doesn't and and I think the the idea that we have to, you know, protect the movie industry from the big bad studios and there's is like such a long gone phenomenon .

at the tree.

What we desperately need is someone with money trying to get everyone back in the movie. There's yeah but I .

don't think that should be the movie. There's I don't think that should be the people making the movies.

But the animals .

sues were not necessary. Some of animals issues were were declining leadership. That's totally true. A lot of animals issues were over extinct themselves. They've got a theater and fight. And I can always get a ticket, see a movie there because no one goes to see the movie is .

in the final. That's everywhere.

That's not in a handful of blockbusters that show out. And no other movies like .

animal has famously been very good at programing big events around the other movies. And they were really, really good at IT. But theyve over extended themselves.

They never recover from twenty, twenty one. And I don't think IT necessarily needed to be SONY. That went ended this right.

I don't think IT should be these movie theatres because they are ready control. They are already so vertically integrated. We shouldn't just add more on and give up. We shouldn't fact say, hey, you shouldn't be able to own everything all the way down because IT does actually measure ly make the entire industry works in .

less creative. Yeah, I just they didn't buy AMC. They want allow draft house.

I know I went there so much.

right? Like I am with you and i'm usually one who is like the most pro diversified .

competition on the show .

is me being super filming. The idea that the movie theatres is this like gigantic business that we can't possible let the studios back into is just not how IT works anymore. Like if if anything, we should be saying SONY can't own uh, streaming service like that's the that's the .

scarier way to take too much control .

of the industry right now. I just again, I just wants to remind everyone that the streaming companies SONY owns our country role in SONY pictures core, which I use that .

is crackle raca. And I will not .

stand for IT the streams at eighty megabits for second only to see televisions know IT does not. So crack has long since gone ninety.

No, how dare you? I can still make a free account on crackle .

that com to do what .

you can watch. There's the Alfred from batman prequel. We're like Alfred. I never watched IT, but apparently he selves .

cribs s no crackle still exists. I had been i'm literally on their website and i'm not positive.

It's still exists.

which is telling you. But it's here. I can watch. I can watch.

You have to name a movie that actually exists .

to can interest you in season one, episode one of dominion creek.

That's not true. That's that's AI. You have to give me something .

that doesn't sound like an league. What about I C U? But IT spelt E Y E, and IT appears to have celebrity alone in IT.

Okay, that's a really of fake.

I don't believe this website is real. Sorry, I have to stop looking at crackle that come. This is too much that been enjoying this too much.

Oh, okay, everybody somewhere .

I just want to point out.

uh, so exited crackle and sold IT to a company called chicken soup for the sole entertainment.

which also owned red box. And I also in the middle of going out of business.

i'm just to just going to say that count is going to. It's not IT is S, C A honey pot now for self help content fully on ninety, although it's not.

David preferred red streaming .

from what I understand you want to go squad something called roof, tell me who and crackle, but instead IT shows me a list of trending support topics. And one of them, number two, on the list of trending support topics and crackle FAQ, how many video devices can head to my. This is real.

I'm not, i'm not kidding at all what the other one is. How do I trouble to issues my x box series? S so I think we know a lot about this perversion of crackle.

Yeah, sorry, crackle has gone ninety. That's one thing we've learned about this. I'm with you that consultation ation is bad.

That's yeah I think I mainly just want to see M, I mainly just want to see alamo go this way. I spent a lot of time there and twenty seeing some of the worst movies. And like two, I got to see matters metropolis there at a twenty four, our movie festival color ized absolutely spectacular. But I also saw kip sa tapes. And again, we reached the filmmakers out of the theater .

because I was, I got absolutely hammer. My friends went to broken the club. S you can have experiences, a movie theatres, and it's great.

That's IT. We're got to get to get this up. We are like five hundred years over time. There's still so much the same by rack.

Les are in a episode about IT.

We will do that next week. By the way, one thing we didn't get to is, as we speak, the tesla vote to give you on his money or not. His money is still ongoing.

IT looks like you might win. IT will cover that on another show at another time when that is over. But now we have to rest. We have to go and watch crabs per second. That's a very chest.

And that's IT for the verge cast this week. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at eight, six, six verge one one.

The verge cast is the production of the verge and box media podcast network are show is produced by Andrew marino and leon James. That's IT. We'll see you next week.

Support for this episode de comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced club. Hey, IT slim from decoder with new ipad top. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into summer.

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