Apple (grumpily) opens up the App Store
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The request, the flagship podcast of the european union.

Yeah.

look, I couldn't get what I wanted by talking about IT on this show. They found that I called my friends in europe. He used the power of the state. Boy did they .

ever did.

This is the longer est way to begin to show that is ever .

want we won in seven and seventy six and we want again in twenty twenty four. We're taking over.

Did me do you think? Okay, let's split begin. There's a lot of news this week. Yeah, just an overwhelming amount of news IT starts.

I think we have to begin with the digital markets act in europe, which is causing just an enormous amount of change to healy. Iphone and IOS are gona work in eype. David, walk us through IT because IT is bananas .

yet this is actually um more bananas than I think a lot of people expected and we were kind of expecting bananas. So basically apple uh today thursday announced I O S seventeen point four, which is coming out in march. Uh apple doesn't Normally like go way out of its way to make huge announcement without point up, but there are essentially three big pieces of news in here, which are kind of one piece of news in three different productions.

And the big thing here is that apple is just opening up the episode in a really big way. So apple is going to now allow alternative APP stores, which IT calls alternative APP marketplaces. And if you call them episodes, they will correct you and say at marketplaces on the iphone.

Now um we can talk about how all of that works in a minute, but that's the first thing. The second thing is they're now allowing other browser engines to run on IOS. So chrome and firefox and all these things can actually run their full text stack, which means they can run extensions. They can run all kinds about their stuff. That is, I think, a big deal.

And then the third and more immediate thing starting today is that the APP store is now open to game streaming services h things like game pass and SONY is play station plus and all that stuff that has not been allowed very contentiously in the APP store before epic wants to be in the APP store and can't be can't get the epic or on the iphone. Starting now, those kinds of services are going to be available in the episode. All of this, almost all of IT, is exclusive to the eu.

This is where the genital architect is. This stuff is taking place there. And rather than do what we thought might happen, which is make a big global change the way that I did with U.

S, B C, the E, U. Said, that has to. U. S, B, C. And apple could have made two phones, but elected to just switch everything to USB. c.

Apple is very clearly leaving off this one part of the world and saying, this is how things are going to work in the E. U. And in the rest of the world.

IT is more or less business as usual. The game streaming thing is the exception that is global. Everything else extremely focused to the E. U. And apple has made very clear IT is doing this against its will and with great, great rage and to stand at the entirety of the process. Yes.

they're very matic europe.

Yeah like a paris back get just like point at their head.

Ten hook is never eating cheese again.

never happening. But you what I really know is like even talking about this forever, uh, and this just sort of like drops because this what you would have guessed this would be coming this .

to some extent. The thing that really, really got me these past few weeks is apple also had to do the alternative payments thing, and IT has gone kicking and screaming ing and basically made that a non issue. They like whizzed their way out of you have to provide outside links to payment services, which they have to per court order in the united states.

And they made that so expensive and so hard to do that. It's never gonna en. And one would assume that I really thought they would find some way to do that in europe.

Two, with these rules. Then there is is a picture of tim cook with margat investigate who is the competition head in europe. And I pretty sure, you know, they were meeting about this.

And I feel more confident than ever that apple made a bit of a horse trade because the eu. Also wanted them to open up eye message, right? And that's a weird one in the u because ever uses like what's up, they don't like they don't use message ah. So i'm pretty sure apple got to keep my message close.

They said we will do R, C, S with that time anyway and the e said, okay, we're going to leave our message alone, but you've got to do the other stuff and that is the thing like i'm pretty sure that, that is the the trade that was worked out. yeah. And so apple is like to some extent going farther than we expected with the browser engines, with the APP stores, with game streaming.

We should talk about game streaming in global. I think that's really interesting. But to some extent, they're just making IT.

It's not quite as bad as that you have to allow links to external l payment services in the us. Like you can just put another APP store on there. Those APP stores have to be approved by apple.

That apps actually notice, zed, there's all the stuff they're still hopes. So it's it's not gonna not happen the way that external payment services are gonna not happen. And an a browser engine thing. I really think just the ability for google to put the chrome browser engine on the iphone will make web kit Better because apple will finally have to compete. And IT can be shown that apple holds web kit back yet in order to preference the APP store.

And that alone, if if that just happens, if that happens in one country in europe, lucky bird chrome can run on the iphone in luxembourg, that will make web kit Better everywhere else, right? Because the evidence will be available. And I think that's amazing. Uh, but I I think there's a little bit, of course, trading going on here where they protected I message, which is the big walk in and they were a little more open to everything else because they needed to protect my method to me. I actually think.

and i'm gonna like, try to think this out here as I go, because this is just occurred to me as you're talking. So this might make no sense for a while, but go with me here. I think the fact that they're treating game streaming as different from the alternative APP store thing is really telling um because in a certain way they are functionally the same thing, right? It's an APP full of other apps.

That's what these games streaming things one and that's what the alternative of ap scores want. And I think what apple may have realized is that the game streaming thing, people will go to the ends of the earth to do, right? Like the if if I am a game pass subscriber, I will do whatever is required to get game pass.

And that stuff is big enough and powerful enough that people will go through whatever hoops are required. So apple is actually in a certain way, smart to remove some of those hoops and just open IT up and and to something, admit defeat, right? Not like we this is this is just apple saying, know what you wanted this you can have IT and we don't know a ton about what the business terms of all of that are going to be.

Apple has been weird about like IT has to approve every individual game in the store before, and that's been Walker. So there's a lot left to play out there. But I think apple for that one is kind of just saying you you want to you got to you in on this one.

I think IT seems to me that there's a there's a version of this that says apple is just trying to make IT hard enough that not so that IT won't happen because IT will happen. You're right. There will be alternate at markets aces on I S. Very quickly.

But I think they might be able to make IT hard enough that almost no one cares and and the way they've set IT up like tim sweeney, the city of epic, which makes fortnight and all call IT malaise compliance, right? We talked about that with a lot of what apple has been doing. That's what the uh, you can link out from your APP, but you still have to pay us twenty seven percent even though your not doing any the stuff through apple anymore.

That is pure malicious compliance. And in this case too, I think you can accuse apple of trying to make IT hard for developers to play this game. Like if you want to do this, you have to make a different version of your APP, essentially, that works in the eu versus the one that works in the rest of the world.

But apple will only accept one version of your apps. You have to make an APP that is two apps, one of which runs in one place and one of IT runs in the rest of the world. You have to go through this process as an that marketplace to get all of the apps in IT notarized and your marketplace approved. If you are a developer, you have to either set up a bunch of other payment systems, work with all these different marketplaces or you just say, you know what, screw IT. We're not actually saving that much money and just say in the street.

except there are huge categories of apps that apple won't allow, right? This is the thing that I think will be really interesting. You and i'm not even sure some of these apps should exist, right?

Um I mean for the obvious watch all the .

point one just saying like i'm not sure deep fake porn generator should exist on the iphone. I think that's a dangerous territory. Uh, apple would never love that stuff in the store. You can see how an alternative marketplace hops aside will certainly allow people to tap the vast processing power of whatever a serious trip is in your phone to run some of these apps.

even just like apps that show you objectionable content, right? The kinds of things that apple has not allowed before and is actually like a weapon apple has wheeled against platforms before. That is now going to be perfectly permissible to install on the iphone through one of these alternate source. Like as long as IT, as long as the abbott self is not like a security risk stealing or information, it's the apple's content rules do not apply and that's got to make apple feel so gross.

And I here's one and I don't know if ret tumbler, where apple's content rules, kept the APP from showing all the content on the service. So the reason tumblr got rid of porn is because verizon bought IT, an apple said to its partner, verizon, it's a big important partner. Shut IT down.

Yeah in rise inside we sell the iphone. No, an apple said, shut IT down and rise and caved like end of story right? In the wordpress potted they tried to have a fight.

They like found the same little exception is read IT, which is yeah what if you you like that's basically how IT works on read IT. It's basically was gonna on tumblr. But all these things, all these sloops we talk about all the time, uh, like apple, makes developers jump through hoops.

There are some categories of absent just do not exist because of the hoops in in europe. Yeah, it's like not worth IT for saving three percent. That's not even three percent. But when it's existence, al, I think a bunch developers are going to jump to the hoops.

And I think the first category of upset of existence, al problems, are the one's apple for bids, which necessarily means apple is going to win the first battle here by saying, look at all the stuff you enable, like, look at all the porn like that's what are going to say. Look, you made a porn marketplace. Are you? Are you happy?

Europe and europe being europe is going to be like we are historically topless. So think about what we invented. We're the french, right? And they are going to be fine with IT.

And but I I think that there's another turn here where there are categories that up so we can even imagine that don't exist on the phone. There are categories of business models that we cannot imagine that don't exist on the phone. And we might see some of those developed in europe because now they have actual access two customers on their devices without having asked apple for permission. And I think game streaming is that category is the category of things where everybody can imagine that everyone can envisioned and IT does not exist.

And I do want to say, like David, you kind of said something that big a deal. I do think having to get APP store permission for every single game that's gonna on the the streaming services is pretty honner's like that was something that video and and microsoft and I think even google were pretty against a couple of years ago. I'm curious to see if there's if their opinions of change we've reached out to them.

We want her back yet but really, really seriously because before they were like, no, we don't want to send like cares of five. We don't want you approving that. We don't why should we have to get your approval for IT?

Do you think the constant approvals for those games?

That's true. But I think there's thing there are certain types of games and stuff that might be more permissible and a console setting you like run gambling and that sort of thing that are less purpose on the ice.

So on the apple store, oh, here's another gambling ah. So gambling a right now at aloud any nf t apps, any crypt to apps do not exist on the iphone. So if you're in europe, your ability to open an APP store, it's like gambling, pornography, gypt occurrence, cy mining now time in your life. This is why monocle exists. From what I understand.

you're going to get so rich like the number of billionaire europe is IT about to spoke through the .

woods um but that all that stuff is like wild to think about, right and it's gonna play tlees favor because the stuff that most people can immediately think of that is against ples rules is stuff that is morally questionable. Or at least are you morally questionable?

I think there's a flip side to that. That is basically businesses that couldn't afford to be on the iphone, uh, which is like the the the rub has always been basically, if you don't run a business at a thirty percent margin, you can't exist in a useful way on the iphone because apples going to take thirty percent.

So like audio books is when you hear a lot, right, like it's very hard to make a thing that cells audio books in a good, useful way on the iphone because you have to give up thirty percent and that business does not afford you thirty percent margin to give the apple. And now if you want to be in an alternate APP store using non apple payments, which in the E, U, you're going to be allowed to, do you suddenly o apple, nothing. And that like your agreement with the marketplace, who knows, without to be whatever. But that suddenly changes the kinds of business at the low end of what you can do on the iphone because you don't have to give APP l thirty percent of everything that you do, which is pretty powerful.

I could see a company like amazon who already has knows how to make an APP store has been like were going .

to pull the candle lab.

Do they take theory?

In theory they do.

They made something that resembles an APP store. They could very easily be OK. We're going to get rid .

of the yeah I look forward, IT was on executing a software platform, hill. It'll be great.

They're going to put the silk browser in. There can be .

said I think I think you know um andy will believe IT when we see IT, but I look forward to your attempts. Large company you .

know think is perfectly possible is that the kindle APP stays in the APP store, but also so goes into a separate amazon run marketplace like alexa talking about. And then the amazon can say, you know, if you want the easy way here, IT is this is why the windle has always been. But if you do this thing, just look up to your amazon account and you have one click purchasing for all of your kindle book, note book forever.

And I like I hadn't really thought about that until you mentioned kindle. Bit like I would download new marketplace for that in order to be able to easily buy kindle ooks on my phone. I would go through whatever whose I had to .

amazon and spotify. I will start their marketplace tomorrow, right? And so IT spotify, I can sell you. It's by the audio ks too. That's very competitive.

Then I get IT yeah unless .

maybe they won't do that together.

We like water stones or somebody is like we're going to start the bookstore, the book APP bookstore .

or something free free idea. Well, at the very least, I look forward to just explosion .

of that ideas and gambling. Yes, it's great.

Is moving the luxton berg is the other news on this.

And so that's the absolute, which I think is like understandable, right? You can see, okay, we're an open this up where to bypass the upstart rules, maybe lower and fees or maybe not dependent able be that do. There are some complexity there but will let apps onto the phone that don't have to meet extra rules.

You can just imagine all kinds of apps that can happen there and some of them will and some of that developed the browser. Er side of IT to me is actually the bigger deal and I mentioned luxan board, but I really mean this like there is no pressure on web kit on the iphone zero. Apple gets to do with that my brothers, exactly as IT pleases and IT gets to impose whatever limitations on that broker IT wants.

And that is just very meaningful for a lot of things. Yes, IT means the the ability for apps to distribute on the web is effectively kept on mobile by whatever apple wants, whatever boundary IT wants for the APP store. So you give everybody this example.

I'm looking at my mac IT is running zero native abstract. It's running to its run mainstream in notion calendar, which are both native nice. But that's only because i'm .

a snob and I read installed that's .

why everything else is a web like or the best of a rapper around a web APP, right? It's some electron thing is happening to run slack. Almost every of my mac is a web or running in crime.

Almost every death of application that you can think of that isn't like a game or up you, the video editing software, genes placing whatever you might need, the actual power is maxi do anything else. It's like a reader or information management up or any of the stuff. Almost all the on the club expressed to you through a web ser.

Every AI service you can think of is happening on a data center express to you, webster. There's no ChatGPT APP for the mac. There's the web. And that is because the web is a great distribution platform. M on desk computers because there's actual competition between browser makers and then ever .

in pecs trump fine wall end because your browser gets to do stuff right again. Your browser has access to system features, and IT can store a lot of stuff on the desktop, and I can run stuff offline inside of a brazilian. Your browser has so much access to the rest of the machine on your detox, which gives IT all these powers they phone brothers just do not have. And that is a deliberate choice that apple in particular, has made for a very long time.

And they're so mad or they're so mad.

they are mad before you get a mad. I just wanted stay on apple making that choice. Yes, it's a phone. Yes, it's bad constrained. Yes, the screen is small.

My old max are vastly less powerful than my current iphone, right? Like when I do this show at home, I do IT on a twenty fifteen imac. I promise you, my iphone, it's more powerful than that computer, like, vastly more powerful than that computer.

That computer is so much more capable. If I did have one computer forever, I would probably between my current iphone and that mac, yeah, i'd pri pick the iphone just for a number of reasons. But IT would be hard, right? I bet.

Well, here's all the things I want people to do anymore, right? And that is weird. That's not related to the the power of the chip. No, it's related to the flexibility, the Operating system in, in particular, the ability of the browser to do almost anything, right? IT contains a vastly more powerful, much less encumbers at platform in the browser and web kit stops.

And so just having another broader engine on the phone to show everyone here's what you could do if you had great browsers on this one is little fault. I apple cannot make a version of web kit for europe in a version of a kit for everyone else that sucks like they just can't do that. And I think that pressure is gonna sh web kit, which will then in turn push the APP store.

which will be good. Will that also mean in the E, U, the annoying like download the APP instead of using the website thing will go away because you will have all the people like using chrome. And what necessarily flag is mobile?

No, because there's a pm on some APP growth teams somewhere that's measured in appen tls and that he will bribe whoever needs to put that cookie banner.

But like that actually that's a perfect reason because like do you know why people want APP stalls? Is because when they have an APP stall. They get to put a thing in your home screen, they get to any push notifications, they get more power over what happens on your device.

They get to take things like your location and all this persons information about like that stuff that apple gave to up developers that I could have given to web apps and just didn't because apple is all the same stuff, right? Like apple wants full control over every single thing that happens on its system and you cannot do that to the web. And um I think if you believe the web is a good thing for that reason, this is a great thing. I think if you're apple, you do this kicking and screaming, which is very clearly what apple is trying to do. Like basically when you're apple in your writing, in your press releases that you're like big mad about this, like it's pretty it's pretty brutal.

It's very funny.

But no, I I agree. And I think the the this improvement in the web, which two apples credit and safari has gotten Better in the last couple of years, um I would say almost certainly because of regulatory pressure, but so far has gotten Better. You can now install uh progressive web APP on your phone and IT runs more less like a negative APP.

You know it's crazy. The web has supported that forever, do you? Member, twenty years you couldn't run background audio in safari. If you left safari, I would just stop playing whatever you really seen. Like, that's just a choice.

And I think you're right that if this goes well, that is one thing that will percuss ate back out is apple is going to have to win that stuff. And this is like, all of this is so tied together in my brain now because, like, I spent all this time at the google, uh, anti trust trial where they talk to turn about this apple deal. And I like, oh, apple makes a lot of money because of this deal from google.

Google is going to be lessen clan to give apple all that money of safari. Stop working. So apple has a real competitive reason to make safari work, even in a world where he wants apps to work.

So like this fly wheel of, can we make the web little Better? I think your right is going to push apple in good directions because IT actually has found a way to make a lot of money off of the open web. So like kudo stap, but it's it's a good thing for us.

I I really IT pointed a gun at google, said, do you want this data and google said, we yes, yeah, please. Um the game during one it's interesting. It's apple for the first time admitting that the APP store has segments and some are more lucrative than the others right in IT.

So said, okay, games were fine. They're different. We're going to treat them differently. We're going to go global because microsoft was just like take bot all over the globe.

We only if this happened europe because at every x box developer event, microsoft, like we can do IT in europe. Pe, call your senator, right? Like they'll just do IT.

And if you will remember, during the apple verses epic trial, apple could not figure out how to differentiate between the blocks and the things you can build and develop and distribute in rocks and everything else, like, literally could not distinguish within robo ks and minecraft. Like at one point they were asked, is robots a game? And they're like, yes and IT, but IT has purchases in IT.

And like, yes, I know. Like, okay, what about in that purchases in not robo ks? And like, that's a game too. Like literally, I could not figure out and I think this is them for the first time just being like, okay, there are things called games and we're going to put them over here and control them differently and that's a sign of maturity.

But are they are going to do that with robo ks? Like is somebody going to go and approve the game where my my godson is a prison warden? He's very proud of his prison because you can do that.

and all is so hard to tell. So MIT, let me just read you the the thing that apple says in its announcement. IT says that each experience made available in an APP on the APP store will be required to IT here to all APP sore review guidelines and a home step will need to maintain an age rating of the highest age rated content included in the APP.

So the first part there is the second part of that simple straight for understood. If you have one, you know, and see seventeen game and see seventeen required to IT here to is like a an opening you could drive a truck through like does that mean it's going to get reviewed? Does that mean apple can just kick you off if it's bad? Does that mean just like handshake agreement? Don't do that?

I have no idea. Yeah and this .

seems very important because see your point, alex, like the thing where everybody had to submit and create and have reviewed every single game on their service was like a non studer. And the way that apple phrases IT leaves open everything from that to apple doesn't carriage just be cool. One of the reasons .

that was an on starter was IT that you'd be distributing multiple game binaries yeah which is done for a streaming service. Whether this is like you will have A A streaming service wrapper, you'll click on a game in IT and will stream the game to you inside of that APP, which they were somewhat able to do on the web, like they were creeping their way towards being able to do this on the web.

But if you have a cat like netflix, like netflix says a catalogue titles in the thing and you push the button, I think what apple saying is everything has to, well, I think this is like a three restriction in that kind of situation. But if they don't review every song and spotify, right? But a spotify is found to break the actual rules that's prop right in, like I know in spotify, this real test that, but they don't review every movie in netflix. But netflix I assume if netflix added a hard core pornography section like apple would like get in the game, you know. I mean, I think there's a little bit of back and forth.

There can imagine if netflix opens an alternative at marketplace in europe. It's just the hard.

With ads in twenty p four eight we got to .

get that arrow up somehow like let's go uh.

for a while. The hp o go APP was the singular exception to the astra rules because IT just had the late night category. Oh yeah.

so I didn't .

have point IT is, well, very like V H S level pornography .

point of your fourteen yeah well.

well.

part of your twelve.

Now I was going to the other direction. It's you want that number to go up. That's we're looking for up eighteen is like the real that's yes. Yeah but I was I was like a huge exact and never knew IT.

IT was just like unspoken what apple once A H V O go up here and if he was like our whole catalog, including that part of IT, yeah, why is this year? I know not ever talk about it's gone now, the late night skin, a section of the max APP, does not exist, but that was the level of loops that existed. Yeah, and that's a free fall.

But I just going to come back the game streaming. I think that's gonna be the same deal, right? You have a catalogue we're going to spot check the catalogue once you get to microsoft of the entire xbox library.

There is just no way apples like we enabling this globally and we're going to sort they're enabling because I think there's going be A A pod goal of the that rainbow where they are going to find some way to charge money inside of that APP. They wanted to be successful. The iphone.

They also rolled out that thing. One of the payment structures, I think, in the eu now as if you over a million downloads, you have to start paying like a monthly, like fifty cent fee or something. Poor download may be poor animal.

Yes, once a year, once a year.

And so I can stream. You really takes off in the E. U. That could. I could get pricy. They claim that most people aren't going to have to pay that though.

I think what they are anticipating is there's x box cloud gaming and that's an nap on your phone. And to get xbox slow gaming, you are to paid forty bucks a month. I know some number, yes, twenty bux a month.

And the best way to get that customer to convert is for them to sign up with an p purchase in the subscription. And so apple just going to take that money. great. Here's a thing we .

wanted to do. Apple looked at this and said, people are going to get this substitution one way or another. Why don't we make them .

do IT on our zone? What we take, our thirty percent. Do you think there's just a line of people outside of tim cooks office that like just like ideas to collect thirty percent a hundred VIP line for the executives that that he knows like was a guy?

There's like people I know problems have to solve ideas to take thirty percent and just like one after another, they shot three different tickets and know his receptionist is like now serving fifty six in the ideas for thirty percent and fifty six. 这个 稳定。 A because that they want apple in google.

Now as we know from google's own, and I just trial every button. You pushing your phone is an opportunity for them to make money. And if they don't make the money, they're mad. I think that should bring us to how mad they are at the european union because you mention the press and we have anyone to read .

the we're mad lines. And what's so apple's big story has always been that only apple can provide a protected, good, curated, successful experience for everybody that makes everyone happy and doesn't steal all of your information and kill you and leave in a tech like those are the two options. It's it's apple or ditch, right like that in apple's world.

That's where IT is. Uh, there's never been any real evidence that that is the case, but here we are a so with the with the browser one um one of the things that happens with the browser now is the first time you open safari. After updating to I O S seventeen point four, you're going to get a choice screen which we know for sure apple hates.

Apple has testified under oath that IT hates choice screens and you're going boot up safari and it's going to say, what do you want to be here to foot presser? This is, again, only in the E. U.

And you're going to be able to pick safari or a list of other resources think to be named later. Um and apple says this changes the result of the D M A S requirements and means that eu users will be confronted with the list of default browsers before they have the opportunity to understand the options available to them. The screen also interprets eu users experience the first time they open savi, intending David to the pitch.

It's just this, like passive aggression sive like, this is a bunch bullshit you guys are making a still, this is stupid. I hate IT. That's the I ve .

here's hope that one that is true and it's great to just go like i'm not saying is go get in A I voice clinic. Your favorite apple is even happen that copy it's great. Don't do that.

That's toa uh morally question. But in the new E U APP stores, total ability. The thing that's why is about that is apple is one hundred percent correct in the context of choice screens.

As we've known them up until now. They've been putting choice screens on android, in windows, in the E, U. For one billion years. And you know what, people are still isn't cream. Yes.

they use choice screens in macos right now. If you go, you open a new brows. Er, I wanted use this when they're usual, like they still double check that stuff.

So I but every Browns who wants to be for.

yeah they all want that the apples are is like, really so it's of the things where like this, okay, I get that you s are mad, but also choices good that.

well, this is the thing. So the argument is the E. U.

Has been met like trying to get people on windows and android yeah to not use crime or google search for one billion years. Like you open IT. It's like what search engine would like to use.

Your choices are google and five hundred choices and ever is like anna google or you open everything and like what Brown do you want to use? Your choices are never explored chrome or five billion, and they are like chrome. And that's very interesting in this context, because people are going to open up their iphones and it's going to say, do you wanna safari or crime? The thing people you have been picking over and over and over again for one billion years.

I see I don't think that's what it's going to happen. I think it's going to be safari, firefox, Opera, arc, dug. Dug probably has a browser yeah and then like when you score down past the top there.

we like spelled wrong. And in a different point.

the cutting edge of european politics is that these choice ed trains are legally required to iranian zed, and everyone still picks. Yes, I just want to be clear. People they've tried to like what I was around and choice screen, what if the choice screen paid you five dollars? And I take chrome, no IT chrome. And so this is the first time you're going to get the experiment where the the goal is to get people away from the default to the other defauts that the european union has been trying to get people away from forever. And I am dying to know what happened.

I I would hope somebody chooses internet explore. I hope somebody to make that up right now.

just in old school, and explore .

yeso. Yeah, we know as browser should be one of the options.

I E three is going to be rocking and and roll. Another thing.

can I just read one more sauty line from the press release? Uh, so this this is the big like omonia bus giant press release from apple announcing all of the changes is biologically made uh, at the beginning of our site at the end of the first paragraph, IT says across every change, apple is introducing new safeguard that reduce but don't eliminate new risks the dma poses to eu users like the d the dma is trying to ruin your life and apple is doing its best to stop IT. But we can't solve everything. Takes the E, U.

There's a real good.

But they caught me here, right? Like apples pass. The E, U, made him. The european regulators are, tell us how to work our phone.

And then inside of that is buried because you're too stupid to figured out yourself, right? It's like, I don't know me. Um I have a mac. I can do whatever I want on this map. Don't prety good.

You know, like the medications you put on the mac working pretty well, why can't my fun work this way? And I I think that moralizing, when we should talk about this in the context, like vision programs, so we have taught in the context of vision props like networks. And you just like not being there, all those developers are pissed IT up.

They do not have the god will to make this argument. And people of headphones for a very, very long time, then they know that apples like, more like they understand how the phones work. The apples are moralizing is kind of like falling on deaf ers. Weird is just a weird moment for rapper, which history ally has gotten developers to do whatever he wants.

That was actually one thing about this announcement that surprised me was how little of an olive branch to developers that actually appeared to be, uh, you would think at this moment with the vision pro coming out and I think there's real momentum behind the idea of not playing apples developer games anymore. I mean, IT, netflix has been h case for a long time, spotify epic mad for a long time. But like youtube and others saying, we're going to wait and see and the the line they will give is, uh, we don't know this platforms going to be I think netflix yeah greg Peters .

yeah was like we'll see if like if IT actually takes off, we might consider IT. But we're going to invest time and money and do something that's not like guaranteed to be good.

right? Which is a perfectly valid excuse, but is also not what people say about apple. Like remember, the ipad came out and everyone on earth like fell over themselves trying to get on the ipad absa. It's like that is the thing apple is very good at, and this is the opposite of that. And so I would have thought in this world an apple would have said, what's what can we do that will, in reality or an appearance, feel like kind of a love letter to developers in the same way that like every five years they are released a new mac pro to remind people that they love people who have uh, and there just didn't seem to be any of that. What when you're an effective monopoly.

you don't have to do that. You don't have to play nice because they're still one of the biggest APP stores. There are still one of the biggest platforms. They can just say, yeah, do IT. Netflix is still gonna to be on the iphone is still gonna to be on the ipad because those are huge. So like this is definitely of those moments where I feel like ten, fifteen years or now, if there are some additional terms, we're going to look back on this moment to be like o this is where apple really started to like it's huber started to show and that really started to have like kind of a decline yeah. But I don't know if that's actually gonna en, but I could certainly see talking about IT in the podcast fifteen years from now.

Well, I think what that we should end IT by IT figure, like how how do we imagine success here? Like here's the thing. I think we have a big team in europe and they are very quick to remind me that one, they get more holidays. They get health care always on top of that uh and then if they pay nothing for international service like you want to buy a broadband in europe, you're not paying as much money as if you want to buy. Broke in and it's and it's faster .

like but no air conditioning. What's that about?

Because you what climate change is arrive for the europeans. We wearing a great story sever years ago about conditions Prices will dig IT up in the shots um but like there are ways to measure like how european regulations raise or lower Prices or lead to different outcomes. Some of them are worse than here.

Like there are some aspects of like european regulation that have LED to less of viBrant marketplaces for sure, like we have big tech companies. Europe does not just just true. Yeah, you can read all kinds of eadem icc literature on why that has happened.

But IT mostly is because you can just go start a google on a garage here and then maybe take over a shant market, right? You can just monopoly ear way up to that position if you want here, and we won't stop you. And in europe, they just like doesn't happen that same way.

Labor unions sit on the boards of big ear pean companies. That doesn't happen here, so you just end up but you can make lists to present counts. But in this case, I think we don't know what success looks like.

I don't know that the ear peans there is a competition is good, which is great. I love IT. I'm all about competition. But it's like at the end of this is that you need to downa a different APP store to get spotify in netflix, in the kindle lab. There's a bunch of weird stuff in the apple apps.

Like is that success? Yeah I think success is oh I can just go buy a booker and audio booker a movie or whenever and just do IT and just be done with IT on the appi chees. Like I think that is I think that is a Victory.

And oh, I can just go have real chrome on my iphone. Great there. So so I think yeah I I think we're gna pretty quickly see the Victories. I what's going to be interesting as is all the economics afterwards and and and then we'll see the losses of like, oh, we just have like a whole really gross for revenge porn APP just hanging out on a store and and now we're going to be having to like write a bunch of stories about this APP store who refuses to take down the revenge porn APP that's gonna don't do that don't do IT people but when you do I hate you just know that um yeah I think .

figure you out like what does that look like if this works? Like what have a tangible improvin ce. We want to have our experience with friends. And yeah, I just want to be able to buy stuff.

I want the user experience of buying content to be simply and easier and not feel like apples just taking a thirty percent cut from whatever creator. That's very good. I'll take that on the website.

If to do that, you do need to go demote a separate APP store for every kind of content APP. That's that's like obviously worse. yeah. And I I think apple is leaning towards it's going to be chaos and you're going to want to be here anyway. And I think we're all leaning towards the pressure on apple will be enough to change the actual APP store, make IT Better, man, because that's what competition does. I don't know we're going to get that. I would just say like at this moment regards this, why you think you should just think about like what is success for this thing look like and how to get there as opposed to it's duffing in to win or it's offing in a disaster because like I said, they've been putting choice screens on windows and android four years, like one decade of anatta regulation in europe around google has resulted in no change.

great.

So I think IT is going to be wild to put the chrome micon on a choice screen and iphone and see if people still pick fy.

That's a really interesting test case here, right? Like the thing that I think is interesting here is we've been talking sort of in theory for a long time about whether people would just pick the APP store, both developers and users because it's easier, right?

Like I think you can make a very compelling case that all of the stuff that is going to entail to go to the website of an APP marketplace, download IT, go through the hoops to get IT installed, say yes on that scary screen and that's a APP store you might die, and then download the other apps, do all the stuff there, maintain those things like that might be arduous enough that most people will continue to choose the upstart, which is what apple has said all along, is the case. And now we get to find out like that's the thing i'm excited about. And and the chrome example is a perfect one because google hole defense in its anti trust case has been people use us because we are the best product.

And we know because when people get to choose, even when they're bullied into choosing, they choose us. And that's a pretty good anti trust defense or at least that has seemed like one so far. And in this case, apple is is gonna have to put up or shut up along the same lines like were about to find out how many people use to farry on purpose. And I think that's cool.

Yeah, it's me, right? That's a great place. And IT, because I dying to the answer, and we just won't til our european friends tell us we got to take a break where this shows already way over back. Support for the show comes .

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Our back, we still have a lot the shows going to go with five hours. Yeah, but there's like a lot of streaming news this week. Cameron.

okay. So net like had their earnings before their earnings. They had a bunch other stuff. So first of Scott stub, who was the chairman for netflix films and else he was leaving, that was the day before. And and Scott is like not the only reason that netflix says a really successful films late, but was a big reason that they were like the most nominated film study over three years in a row. Uh so so him leaving oh surprising.

Then the morning before their earnings, they announced that W W E monday night raw was going to be coming exclusively in netflix and not only a netflix in the united states, but world worldwide, which is apparently very huge, according to Chris welch, our resident like W W E superfan. Yeah I had I had to go to him repeatedly this week being like explained this rustling thing to but uh so so those are both like big things. And then they announced at there after during their earnings report, they announce that they were going to be getting rid of the eleven ninety nine basic player, which they would already been like facing out, I believe, in the united states in a couple other places now it's going away everywhere uh, before like you couldn't even subscribe to IT, but if you would already subscribe, you were fine.

Now you're going to get bumped either to six ninety nine, which is the ad, which is the ad version, or are you going to be bump to a fifteen forty nine, which is the ad free version? Oh no. So IT just got a lot more expensive basically to to go without .

ads on netflix. I like to do, I like to say I I theorized that that was going to happen on this podcast. yeah. And oh my god, have I been right that they're just going to praise the pieces if you want add free and you want four k and they're going to keep the ad, the ad based one cheap and eventually they are just going to shot everybody down to that one. That's not entirely their plan.

but that's a big part of the plan for them. They're about twenty three. It's sound like they have about three million monthly active users who are currently on advertising.

They really, really like IT. All those people love IT because they place six ninety nine, they get two screens and they go what IT. But now they're have to pay fifteen forty nine if they want those two screens in no ads. And then if they want four screens in four kid, they have to page twenty two ninety nine and then for each additional user. So like if when max goes to college a next week, seven, ninety nine per user per month for this higher one.

just can I find that disgusting that they charge poor user and poor screen?

Yeah it's a lot. I am really in the cable companies .

weren't like per screen. I mean.

they kind of work. You need to get another box if you wanted another screen.

Yeah no, they were you. You had to get the box and maybe be like, that box is a hundred thousand.

yes. What basic cable was not pursuing that .

you IT was always, I had to have the little .

box yeah .

me like you're definitely kind of person who would have like pirated tbs for your whole neighborhood growing up like .

that that I am one hundred percent the kind of person who figured out I still cable in his wife. I'm just letting you know had a little coax crapper. The whole thing was a dream. I just looked in the sea, know IT is and see what happens.

Was a real cable guy moment?

Sorry, I was a cool cable guy, right?

But alex uni had based the same exact tor action to this, which is just netflix is just a whole last cable company .

now yeah yeah so so netflix is effectively cable because ten Serenas, C E O, great Peters, the other CEO and the CFO are all like, yeah, we have all the secondary programing, I E, the suits, the Young sheldon, the stuff they're not making and they just license for. And that makes them a lot of money.

And with advertising, that makes them more money than the original programing, where they are having to spend billions of their own dollars to make IT. And even though original programing is the most of their top watch stuff, it's not all of their top watch stuff. And your business is cheaper to buy Young sheldon and and throw that up to your two hundred thousand .

million fifty cbs Young people.

And you can still watch Young and on parameters s because I do, I do. I watch lots of things.

They are not Young. S, I I just say suits is scorch .

upon the republic a danger of .

g people? The rope here is a lawyer .

you talk in yes.

it's unwatchful if you are a layer but um my willingness. First semester r colleges and first finals and college and SHE texted me and back he he was like, should I be a lawyer because first final and she's a stand major and as like where you just starting for your camp final and SHE is ignored ching suits and I know if this is a goal and if we are well, like you do not feel more here because he watch shoes. It's gonna be like it's not like that. If you take one thing from my entire career, the verge, it's that being a lawyer is not like being on suits.

unlike the west wing, which is a perfect representation of what it's like to be.

No, it's closer. Like the people in politics would like their lives to be like the west wing lawyers are not like, I wish I was more like .

suits there. I will say i've only watched like the first season of suit so far and I I love IT very much. And b, no one ever does eddy layering in that whole, I don't think .

well because .

they give species.

Is that with the entire plot? Is that he making mark loss to find cases for the guy? we.

And this shows horrible. I washed five episodes. I was like.

never again did you but like the tourists.

i'm saying i'm in a cancel netflix that to keep making americans watch suits.

But funny is the USA, which is part of universal, which is peop, and I think was maybe of investor in us at some point.

I don't remember. No, I will. I have a Better disclosure, okay, to the U. S. A. right? yeah.

So by nbc universal, nbc universal and investor and relax media parent company, whatever the real disclosure is that suits was the lead into mr. robot. And I hosted the mr.

Bot after show for many years, and I had to watch the tail end of every sort of suits waiting for mr. Robot to starts so we could have the mr. abt. show.

And then, did you see him sane? This is a real problem. This is my little pithy .

towards suits. That's fair. I would have that too. I just do was fine.

Yeah me sure about great though. And I don't know if you can still watch after. So we take to in the study, right, everything Emily sheet was my coast one season to us making for contest and the cost second season .

russia random is there. I would leave IT on while always writing my reps.

I I went through and really.

really a really good .

piece about this basically netflix cable turn uh and especially after the W W thing. But it's kind of amazing you make the list of, okay, what is on cable. There's you know reality T V and all the sort of like nonsense background TV that people watch all day like no exact is a ton of that IT doesn't talk a lot about IT, but is a ton of IT.

It's deep in the dating show game. Now IT is like it's pretty good at this game. You have the the sort of endlessly 2 watchable reruns of stuff， netflix, the suits and kind of sector document.

And actually in netflix is unusually good at making that stuff popular again. You have the prestige stuff nef. Lix has lots of that.

Uh, you have movie channels. Netflix has lots to that. And then what's the last thing is sports, and sports is the one thing. Netflix, so for so long was like, oh, we're probably like live and sports don't really feel like there are us and now netflix is just fully all in on both live and sports .

yeah specifically wrestling, which is like extremely lucrative. I don't think it's probably I have no idea actually, if this is lucrative as baseball is super, but IT IT makes a ton of money and IT does very, very well in the united states. And one of the things that the people at W W E. Were talking about was they were really excited because now they were going able to like spread and internationally a lot easier. And instead of having to make all these different deals and compete with local restful leagues and other stuff, they can just be like, not anybody can just turn on netflix in any country and they can just watch roman rains, because that's like the bigger rustly guy .

did the curse. Well, to teach you about roman rains this week.

Love for you. I like who? Who's like the rock? Now we like rains.

Thank you. Like.

I like. I like the the idea of rustling. And I loved, but rustling itself I haven't liked since I was a kid.

And then once I were to the company that got bodied by professional wrestling, that reduced my life, not my life, that reduced my like of rustling. But it's cool. I like that they slap each other.

They they like slap .

each other yeah then they are like a big dramatic moments and again.

yeah I like IT yeah in theory in there .

but like it's not like garbage. IT looks so ugly.

I don't know. I don't my freshman year roma in college chatted both a stacie hear poster and a rock poster that was like.

my my brother had had lots of like the rock. And then stone called Steve Austin in his room. And I like, what's up with all these posters of Hannah man over you?

yeah. Was a real distinction between .

the .

Stacy keyboard and .

started appear my brother or after uh.

well, he was very happy with his fandom by though both Chris watch and casing in huge wrestling thing. And I have managed not none of IT. He just does not look like anything to me. I but IT is huge and I think from what I understand, restless fans have had a hard time of IT because there was a dedicated restful APP they've got emerged in the some other streamer that has been .

a disaster yeah a lot of it's been like on peacock yeah and .

you know it's .

p cock and I .

think they're very .

happy that netflix might try. That's the read I get. What if netflix says a good job is like people are excited .

about yeah that sounds like neath lix is very interested in like doing a lot that the extra programing around at the after shows and let's do a whole let's explain to alex and nei, everybody else who roman rains is kind of documentary is maybe I watch one because .

who does take suits ts off your service or watch anything that saying do for america?

Yeah, I think netflix is gonna end up looking really smart. Here is like there's spent rumors forever that every time TV rights come up, netflix is supposedly going a bit this there is a big about IT for a formula one because drive is survive is so successfully like, oh, maybe they just spite the right, but then they did the weird thing where I was just like that golf tournament with a bunch of golfers and a bunch of f one starts.

And that was there big first four into live sports. Uh, IT wasn't good, but I guess I did. Well, I don't know.

But this is like, what was that? A five billion dollar like ten year long dealer. Something like this is serious. Yes.

five billion dollars is ten years. After five years, they have the right to be like, never mind. And they get everything just fully packaged and sent to them.

They are like like W E, W W E is doing kind of everything. It's very turn key for a depth like similar to a lot of their secondary licensing stuff. So it's like on the one hand, I love original programing.

I love thought ful new original programming. On the other hand, we ve talked a lot about how that was just gone to stop when advertising became more popular. So that makes sense that netflix kind of becomes USA networker.

T and t whatever network you were really fond of like T V was the one I keep thinking about um and and that's just what it's gonna be now. And IT is like a good value proposition for most people used in six ninety nine a month and you get cable effectively on demand. I see and .

slightly differently. And to me, IT feels like the the risk for netflix, as far as I can tell, is just that it's gonna get out over its is trying to do everything all at once and like it's it's deep in the gaming now it's doing life. It's it's doing all of these dating shows like netflix for a while felt sort of understandable and focused in a way that I think worked for IT.

And I was I was doing uh, uh, streaming service and only a streaming service in a time when lots of other companies are trying to do a streaming service and lots of other things and actually helps netflix and hurt those companies. And now netflix is trying to sort of do too many things. IT feels like I think .

that's the strategy for netflix though, because think about IT, if you are right now, I believe the second largest streaming service after he is on prime, which kind of has big as yeah.

it's the largest streaming service yeah.

So so nothing is effectively the largest. And they are just under the impression they like, yeah, you're probably you might go get max, you might go get disney, you might go get L L, you might get p OK, whatever, but you're gonna get netflix. And so we're gonna like you're gonna spend at least six dollars and ninety nine cents a month with us. So just look, look at all the crap we can give.

You can give you a bunch of microsoft word streaming.

Yeah and and so that's why they're like the TNT. They're just the basic cable is just all the basic cable now in one place and the the APP is terrible. So you're constantly in the time you opened in on your ipad, you just get a bunch of games and you don't want to play those on your ipad on the like for next flix APP, but you're gonna because they keep pushing that on you and that's really annoying.

But that, that rate goes into, I think, network next turn as they need to figure out the recommendation engine is really bad right now. They need to figure out their their user in the face. It's not great right now. They ve got a lot of work to do to compete in that space because eventually, if all IT does this repeatedly recommend suits to nei, he is gonna unsubscribe. And for a good reason.

right?

You show me suits one more time. My microsoft, this is, this is why I mentioned microsoft word. I know people microsoft would love to take stuff out of the toolbar.

They can't because microsoft word is not focused. It's not one thing. IT is a million things to a million different people, and IT now just has to be a million things.

So if netflix x wants to be suits in live TV and wrestling and f one docu series and games like that's a lot of things and like IT just has to be all the things out of people all the time. I do think that like it's I agree that it's becoming it's becoming more and more of what looks like a cable bundle. The part we're like they're doing the worst of cable pricing pr screen. That's why people started to hate the cable companies fully, why people started at the table companies and like that's the danger.

And they're just really hoping because that, that Price screen is only for the ad free version. So so under that, it's it's too that's IT and you you get two screens and if somebody else in your family is like I want to watch because him a big family, then you Better go in another subscription. And and that's the the ad version. The ad free version is the seven, ninety nine, eight months so I can see them being like you don't want to deal with that is a dollar cheaper and you just have to sit through my ads. And I personally will hate that because I cut the cable and like two thousand seven.

I can't get rid of one streaming service. I keep you suggesting like let's get ready. This one back is like some companies especially I want to watch is on that one next month and .

it's like that's criterion is so good you .

can get caterina OK that is actually a perfect segway into the other streaming news this week. That I thought was interesting, which is that verizon, another one of its like we're bundling a bunch streaming services together announcements. And then there was a story, an information where a bunch of horizon people were talking about like we think that the value add here is to be the management tool on top of all the streaming services.

And it's like what that's cable and that is sucks. Like, you know, I want IT is like a harder company to get a hold of to deal with all of myself. But I think the the next turn for all of this with these companies is like the rest of the ecosystem around this, like we're going to start to get more and more apps that are like vergers going to make you easier for you to search stuff.

And we're gna get all these companies for ions doing at amazon, doing IT apples, doing IT that are like just use us to subscribe to these streaming services. And I actually think A A real value to provide is like we will just give you the button you can tap to turn on your subscription or turn IT off to a thing. And I think there's going to be a real competition around that, like I just signed up for a param out plus so that I can watch three weeks of football and god helped me if I get to that fourth week and accidentally pay for another of the paramount plus. And there is going to be a crazy competition to give me a button that I can press to turn off paramon plus.

I could just shared my log in with you.

I don't want IT you're log in.

I know it's going to be doing what to do, and Kevin costner comes your house and shoot you.

But that's .

why people have paid up plus, yes, to watch elston the show where a there is dead who .

murdered people .

urge murder dad, uh, there is a good son .

who died yeah, who murdered people.

He was also kind of a drunk, utter murder yeah and then call of duty sun .

and there there's another sun who's only like a half son. All murdering .

though yes but the call of duty sun is like the funniest part of that guy. I'm not saying I like IT. I'm just saying like every couple of says, like do some .

color duty shit he's a guy and on he put on like all this old army is like .

later I guess that you just just call to this count. It's good. And I look, I I wish you well so but with the dogs, we got to take a break you right back.

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this one happy birthday the the next time you you marched your cm OS office, you get as that track. You hear me, that's that's your goal. Forty first, first day.

get a free check.

Happy birthday, man. They even listening, then he is very funny to people offered individual responsible. I love IT and we probably will find a way to take my money, because IT is holi ous of us, and we will do some good are right lighting around the back where that we did turn forty day and walk on station.

yeah. Well, moser g ah, who has? I would take more stories about the history of apple and the macintosh than any single other person on planet earth just came on.

His host stn story with mac IT was super fund. He was he's good hang. He has been the verge cast in a long time.

Yes, and he told me he's personally very upset with you about that. We cut that out, but he said a lot of really mean things about you. So we're going to have to have him back.

Xi, um I I listen to IT I was on a plane. I listen to IT when I landed and a day i'm very disposed. You do not know the apple two G, S, was I owned apple two G S. IT was a very weird computer, and IT was well mentioned that he don't want you like, I ve ever heard of IT. I was like screaming at my phone.

I literally google IT because I was like, as he's saying the name wrong like I thought, I pretty much do most know he was right.

I was wrong. I've never felt what it's like to be version listener more and waiting for an uber just like screaming at my phone you don't know that is yeah and I won't. I refuse to learn.

Right.

tell you 2。 Crimes.

what you're lighting red, I got to actually so I go serious first. Okay, there's a baby that's covered in technology.

This is the secret one .

is the maybe who cash.

It's not a real baby.

No good import.

There's there's there are in fashion and in france and scape ally, the fashion house was shown off there all their new looks and a woman comes out and she's wearing this gorgeous gown covered and like intel .

fans from the .

dress is that is sick IT looks so cool. And then someone else came out in an outfit called the mother, which appeared to be primarily like, go, a White top and like a White, White bottom. And then they were holding a baby made out of old technology.

yeah. And I was just, it's a beautiful baby. You got a, when you're not driving, take a moment. Go look at the baby. I love IT.

This is a pull over your car and google this thing like whatever you're thinking in your mind right now. The reality is fifty times wilder than that. Both of these models are making catwalk .

face yeah you know.

holding the day in the context of these outfits in that baby, totally reconceptualize a walk face like, yeah, just like what is going on here. Sometimes you just got .

a baby made a tech if you were listening to this.

and you could acquire one of these outfits and bring IT to us. Um one of us will wear on the verge cast, I promise.

Rose berry said the todder er was a reference to the aliens movies.

Roseberry is the creative director for scape. yes. So, uh, Daniel roseberry. He also said that now that the technology I grew up with this antiquated that so is so antiquated that it's almost difficult to source as certain as certain vintage fabrics and embryo ment. So that's why you did IT because IT was basically like it's really hard to find old fans for intel processors. And and buddy, you you just get a new set of friends.

Yeah, I got a closet. Follow laptops that would say otherwise.

Like, we got you. The verge listeners got you. Like you need sourcing for this stuff. You can pay us instead of whoever you paid for all of us have.

You've seen our gadget closet .

come twenty years dressed, ate entirely of USB A K. We got you want to talk with a measuring success, what yours a mine, is that the .

pixel nine leagues are already starting to come. So presumable, we're going to get a glimpse the pixel line in mayor june whenever google I O is and then the real thing in the fall, uh but the league already started in to come out because google is just completely incapable of hiding a product. IT appears um and he looks kind of nice. They looks will put the links in the showers, but they read the camera bar on the back. So that is being like a visor, just looks like A A on the back, a given some iphone .

edges to IT. Yeah, at least I thought it's got .

the sort around a rectangle thing going on for IT. Uh, IT looks nice. And mostly I just wanted to bring that up because I said I think IT was last week that after the samsung announced and I am embarrassed h on the future of the pixel.

And so a million people sent me this. And like, what about this pixels coming? Uh and all of you, I want to say this looks great and I since the hope this is the greatest phone in the history of the universe, I also think it's possible that no one at google knows .

it's being released yeah which is why it's leaking out yeah there's .

a one person that the team is like people what this phone .

on my desk because these neat should .

I 谁说 very good .

at what I got to okay， but you have to I I right that's that's how we're going .

to do IT and .

i'll just be here. Yeah, when you started had walk your lighting round was I did another verge chest that was Better than this one. Uh, okay.

So apple is all in on facial audio. Problem is the vision pro. It's all around you. yeah.

So they're gonna art to pay artists to ten percent more for the facial auto streams, pennies, pennies per stream more if they people stream the special one, which is designed to incentivize artists to both make the space al mixes in an promote them in apple services special mixes. I hate this. I hate this so much.

Uh, one because I think I think the math is actually kind of work out. So looking on random artist, so of like job boards, a special mix. People buy them for five hundred bucks.

Like you like fire off your files to some poor engineers. Like never turn your music before they will generate facial mix. Most of that sounds bad.

yeah. And I know that people are always arguing. They think some of them sound. I know some of them some good. I'm a man who own a super audio CD player. They can play the beatles and quarter panic sound I understand that I try that's what that's what's .

driving in support day by day .

um i'm just telling you, I I believe you i've been playing with surrounding audio since the beginning uh yeah if you do a good job having more channels or more objects are, however, I just wants to work, whatever. Having more is Better. great.

If you do IT like crap, IT sounds a worse, which is why people are all, like, always get reverted. This theory, like it's the easiest thing, is the most a addressable thing. There's more stereo devices on the market and especially when you're like starting out of five hundred pop, like it's not gonna sound good and most spatial mixes are that level.

An apple incentivizing IT because they want their headset to go off is just the it's bad. I've just telling you it's bad. It's going to make more things sound bad than sound good.

which is worse that or when dvds were really in depend in game.

that's kind of where we're at. That's a good comparison, right? It's like what if we just serve this into that box?

Let's go to stop IT. Yeah.

look, there are some I know there are some good ones, but even on apple's playlists there, there are really bad spatial mixes. And it's because there just isn't the volume of people who care enough. There is not the volume of artists who are like i'm going to sit down and make a spatial audio record.

They're more like i'm on tour forever because that's where the money is. I'm going to buy some loops and do a rap in my hotel room and hope that's a hit like that's the reality of most artists right now and i'm saying that's good, bad like that's just where the music industry has forced most musicians into money where they make their money with sink. They make their money like ads and movie sink.

They make their money uh, on selling their old catoche to billion hair who then do more weird stuff with them. They make their money on tour. They do not make their money selling records. And so if you are like now to make make your record more complicated and will pay you more money like that.

I doesn't seem like be doing in that.

Maybe i'm going to be wrong. I just like, look at this and like, are we don't like music, sound, cities or headsets sells more.

I mean, it's in p three is Oliver.

It's weird, man, it's weird. I know someone in the send me some facial mix, Georges son, creeping up behind. Yeah, i've been there. What's the other one?

Have you all heard a power world? Just poke on the guns. yes.

Poke on the guns? yes. That's that's all. IT is talk .

among the guns. I just like that. Those are exactly the words in exactly the order I was going to say, this is special .

ah IT IT is so poke on with guns that there was a youtube creator named toasted shoes who was like, look at this. I I made a point with guns. I put in, pick you and all in everybody. I I made all the little creatures that you can capture and made them poke on and you can play as ash.

And I guess what got shut down very fast by intendo our our boy toasted shoots is is unclear how he was moving IT, because IT doesn't yet allow mod because it's still in like alpha release yeah IT is blowing up the charts on steam and and people are loving to try that out. There is a lot of weird around IT, but IT is essentially what if you had poke on and what if you had guns? And also like how to do some survival stuff. And people are like dash .

or survival stuff.

just a little dash, just a little sprinkle. And apparently people are really.

really into that right now. The mower, the body, understand the models. Like what I store .

your characters .

yeah that's .

like pretty cut released. I'm working on IT and like showed some videos and the dinner was in his inbox and they like, yeah, not going to stop that work. Right now the pokemon company says IT is going to investigate power world because IT feels like you do cute creatures that you can capture.

We do cute creatures you can capture. You use guns. We don't and actually have a problem with you doing that. So it'll .

be a very interesting .

actually. Yeah, they're very similar.

It's like they're very cute.

Yeah yeah, it's not a vibe like poke on like a very real way like if you didn't no the difference and you just shot these up into a photo of a bunch poker, they would just fit .

yeah yeah so so IT is it's close enough that um we're going to have a three hour special episode of the verge cast with me explaining everyone .

loves the copyright .

of this situation because it's kind of weird but yeah linkin du is is not crazy about pokemon with guns so IT was IT seems like they .

wouldn't be that doesn't t like it's another .

thing but the whole .

rest of the world seems to be didn't read that it's it's lake on pace to be the most popular game on steam like ever.

There's a bunch of different metrics steam uses in one of them is most concurrent players and years now, uh player underground battle grounds .

with I called only nerves use the whole name and I hate .

to be so pub g has been the most played game concurrently. And IT seems like poke up, excuse me, not power on power.

Could, could.

could take that that that title and pretty quickly too. So we'll see IT. But also, how long will people play IT unclear everybodys really into IT this week. They may not be into IT next week.

There may not be a game to play next week.

To know me, just shut that down. See.

touch is the nature of steam popular?

Yeah yeah I i've got one last one.

which is actually an old story the David already mentioned, but he forgot to mention the most important part. So they did mention that tim sweeney had replied to the APP store changes and apples responses to them. And it's true, tim, when he did refer to them as multiple compliance. What David failed to mention was that he also called them a hot garbage yes, in uh, quote, a IT will take more time to pass both the written and unwritten parts of this new horror show.

It's very good but I can I drop some breaking news on you four days sweet that it's coming back in the epic game store uh, ford says later this year fortnight will return in europe on IOS to the epic game store. Shout out dma .

and so it's like.

yeah tim hates IT and is going to uh take advantage of IT at every available .

turn back time.

It's good. You need more idealistic yeah for makers. I will see if .

we've seen at least two just in the time we've been recording this podcast, at least two alternate APP stores announcing that they're already beginning the process to becoming at marketplace. On I how it's porn uh, unclear OK.

Um I tell you one of them is it's called the old store and IT started as this APP delta, which originally was an up called gba for IOS, which is a way to play game boy roms yes, on your iphone, which is the thing apple explicit does not allow and now in theory under this rule would be perfectly allowable to do through an take place. So like that's that's coming. That's one of the ones that are once they're working on this.

finally have reason for that that controller that I you can put on your iphone. I never do IT because I like I only want play roms and I don't want to do that on on that I legally owe the game is, of course, you should always leave.

I know one hundred percent certain that is still not legal. That is just some focus, dom, but the wrong market is not big enough for anyone to care.

Yeah, so please don't sue me for that. I supported you in your power worlds.

so has big your fish from .

the me alone. And I started a gamboge. From what I understand, gambling is very lucrative, so catchy in the .

gambling storm and critter gambling people coming to .

I O S in tony donn four and just historically. But he wants to dog, uh, well, maybe get IT. I don't even gamble.

First of point, this is trick every year and years ago to vegas and whatever money other people are. Spring gaming, I just use that money. I spend the same money, but I buy limit ines.

And I promise you, this is a unit for year. I did. Yes, we had a limo this year. And everyone talks more about the lima's ine. Then they talk about gambling at the end.

It's true. I drink, but light out of her campaign.

Tiful wonderful moment was a good little, except when Andrew took over the oaks and some place, some deeply weird shit. That car that's that's a verge cast, uh, will be back next week is the technology this year we have just started the year after the races .

back next week. That's IT also wait before we go. We next week is when the vision pro comes out.

And at some point when IT makes sense, we're going to do a whole verge cast about the vision pro. And if you have questions about the vision pro, send them to us, call the hotline. It's six six verge one one email as verge casts versac com all of your vision pro questions. As soon as we can answer them, we will answer them and we're going to do hold over cast about its .

community fun looking at with the eyes, just staring at you with her own dead eyes. Ah that's that's very first.

And that's IT for the verge cats this week. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at eight, six, six verge one one. The verge cast is the production of the verge and box media podcast network.

Our show is produced .

by handler marino and leon James. That's IT. We'll see you next week.

Support for this episode comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud. Hey, it's lee. From decoder with new IP top, we spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buying? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech and hire away cofounder? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with your life presented by strike. You can listen to decoder whatever you get your podcast.