Big screens, bigger screens, suitcase screens
01:27:04 Share

Support for the verge cast comes from strike. Strike is a payments in billion platform supporting millions of businesses around the world, including companies like uber, B, M W and door dash. Striping has help countless startups and establish companies like reached their groth goals, make progress on their emissions .

and reach more customers globally. The platform offers a sweet of specialized features and tools .

to fash track growth .

like stripe billing.

which makes IT easy to handle subscription based charges, invoices and all reactions ring revenue management needs. You can learn how stripe helps companies of all sizes make progress at stripe dot com that striped out com to learn more, right, make progress.

Support for the show .

comes from service. Now the AI platform for business transformation. You've heard the big hype around A I, and the truth is A I is only as powerful as the platform is built into service. Now is the platform that puts A I to work for people across your business, removing frustration for your employees, super charging productivity for developers, providing intelligent tools for your service agents to make customers happier, all built into a single platform you can use right now. And that's why the world works with service now is a service now can flash A I for people .

to learn more. You're locked out of your air conditioner.

I turned off. I turn that off.

How I walk to her chest, the flag shop podcast of gadgets and suitcases, we're ring IT back. So much of what's happening in our culture now is things that have happened previously in our culture. And gadgets in suitcases is one of that. Some old like one thousand nine hundred and sixty James bond stuff and L G is bring me back. We going to talk about that a lot but i'm your friend.

You like David pearce here. hi. I really like the fact that we've talked a lot about how like on the internet, it's two thousand six again. And with gadgets, it's nineteen fifty eight. Like, I love IT and all that.

We need a whole suitcase for this camera. I trances here.

I was like the the typewriter in a suitcase like that really had a nice appeal to me.

Again, more things need their own. The spoke cases that you burn around .

one hundred percent.

I mean, isn't this is the exact same energy as the resurgent to the flip phones, right? Like experience of I want to use the gadget to i'm using the gadget right now is just like you just like tap your screen, that's not enough. Make me do more mechanical stuff to use my gadgets.

I want to have to like take a cover off of my television. I want to have to plug some things in. I want to like do in entails like make me work .

one of those big poll switches.

Yeah, I want to have to turn the key, while someone else on the other side of the room also turns a key like that. That's how I want to use computers.

is going to be a new publish process, is like multiple T, E terms and then a blog post coes out. You say fast, it's time you say fast. That's really how you know like I get IT right? Like i'm asking someone else to turn a key.

I'd Better have done this correctly. okay. So it's been one of those weeks where there's like lots of little news going answers, lots to talk about.

There is A T, V. In a new case, which I suspend CT for going talk about that link. There's a other bits, gadget news as much streaming news trumps.

Dms have been separated from twitter, which is amazing. And we talk about just encryption in general as a concept. Lots of that stuff.

Dc s going to join us for the second segment. This week was the twenty fifth anniversary. I M acquit a big package at that, a lots stock out there.

And then, of course, we are pretty certain that there will be a new iphone in september or like, but that was just a little bit what's coming. IT seems like a camera bump shocker. Getting bigger on the iphone this year hasn't gone the other way and quite some time.

But to start, there is one big thing happening in the world of tech, in media that several of you have asked us to talk about. I've gotten some tweet, i've gotten some emails, got to some instagram threads. And it's what's happening.

Linus tech tips big to channel, run by linus space. We are reporting on IT. We have a story on an alexa th.

That story, sure, good people are talking to us. The basics are like fairly simple. And then what has happened is ever more complex. So game is next to a video clients and inaccuracies in blinds, tec tips testing policies, a controversy with a GPU cooling block that ended up at an auction. And I shouldn't have this spiral into a lot of craziness around that channel.

Uh, they released the video saying they're going to pause production for a week that they're gotten to see me that they are running too hard. And now there are some allegations of sexual harassment in their workplace. That's a lot from my perspective, is editor and see for the verge our contribution to this in.

So as we're going to contribute to IT is to do reporting, is to make journalism. That's what we do here. So we're not going to overly comment or do analysis on that situation or have opinions about IT at this moment.

We are going to do some reporting and fight out some real facts. That's what were good at here in particular. We're good at reporting on craters, and we're pretty good at understanding the dynamics of tech creators, right? They sit right next to us.

We watched them very carefully. We have lots of relationships with them, but we are not that thing like we are not in platform dynamics in that way like that. We are journalist ever here.

So we're just going to maintain some of that distance so we can put some reporting into the situation. I think that's important. That's where are going to be four minute.

The one thing I will say, there is nothing to this situation specifically, or that channel or that company specifically, is that this pattern in media repeats pretty often. So when we were all baby bloggers, we were like, screw the big newspapers. Like this is the beginning of my career.

In the mid two thousands was a bunch of bloggers being like the institutional newspapers and magazines are garbage. We're going to undo them. We don't need all their process and they are domestic like we I did IT.

I was there and now we have the verge. And it's like hard thought over a decade later. And we have a huge ethic policy and like are disclosures on this podcast. We do them so often that they are like a joke. And we're like transparent about our reporting standards and we have a background policy.

And if you look at IT, you're like o shit, like we just recapitulate all of the things of traditional media because the pressure on us is we got bigger and bigger was that we needed that stuff. And yes, we've got to reinvent IT. And yes, we got yelled at a bunch along the way.

But i'm not having some of IT, but it's largely the same is like what happened before we did IT our way and I think we did IT Better than some of the ways that didn't done before because I think that's important to try to improve. But we we had to do IT again. And that was like early blogging.

I think in general, like the youtube ecosystem is arriving at that place. So other big youtube ors, they have ethics polis, they have review state, they talk about that stuff and they need that stuff because that ultimately protects you when you are at this scale for a lot of reasons. And you need IT to build trust with the the audience. I think that will happen to tiktok again, in a really short order. There is a story we quick close to this week in the times about movie reviewers on tiktok, on movie talk, who insist that they are not critics and they take money from the studios and they don't want to do negative reviews and all that's that's just the beginning of the cycle, right? They're like we're not these old funny study movie critics where something new and eventually they're going to they're gonna not be new.

I like that's what Harry knows, said you like nineteen ninety nine when he had launched his movie sit right like we see this over and over over again. There's a new medium and everybody goes and to like you have new access like right, there's different gatekeepers is really okay. I'm gonna become a up go do the cool things in this medium and not do IT like all the other people who have done in another meeting and this before me, and that you kind of discover that actually some of that stuff makes sense, and there's a reason they do IT.

Yeah, your desire for access can corrupt due. And like very specific ways that are repeatable and understandable and predictable, you need to have the audience like you, especially on an algorithmic c platform. Very predictable at this point, like the pressures are the same and they they lead to the same outcomes in, in particular, the algorithmic platforms, youtube, twitter, instagram, whatever.

They kind of destabilize groups from working together if they are very individualism. So like there is not. If you look at youtube, David, I were talking about to safe.

If you look at youtube, big media brands are not successful on youtube. Di can ban together and say, these are our standards and we will enforce them. Like generally that is not the case on tube, generally that is not the case in instagram. IT is all individuals. So individuals run into these problems, like over and over again at scale in an disaster strikes.

And that confluence users subscribed, I think, is the thing that is new, right? Like I think what we were all going through in in the early mid ots in the sort of blogger revolution was like IT was about sort of teams and websites or whatever. And then the next thing that happens was very much the like individual creator.

And there's the thing that happens that happens to people over and over over on these platforms. You get big enough that you literally just hit the ceiling of what you can do alone. So these folks are building out.

They're building big staffs. And what you do is you end up sort of exporting your own self on to other people as you try to build a business because your audience is connected to you like as as a person. And scaling that is really chAllenging. And I think we've seen a lot of folks in a lot of different ways run into trouble with like how do I make this thing bigger than me when in fact, IT is all about me and that that just becomes messy in so so many ways that I think no one or very few have like really neatly figured out over time.

Yeah and I think it's also just unreasonable to say an individual creator like uphold the standards and practices of the ap while .

running at the speed of every single platform that exists on the internet, which is required for you to do in order to continue to be successful in business yeah.

like it's it's just not possible. Yeah, and I think that's just very chAllenging and that sort of this thing, is that being like what we can contribute here, some journalism. I mean that and we have the opportunity to do IT because we are under no pressure from the algorithm to get views about this today like we just aren't IT, you know and that's something that we fought hard for.

That's why I care about our websites so much, right? We want to be apart from these platforms so we can report them in a meaningful way. But I just see this this bigger story is the thing that has caught my interest here.

Yes, these allegations are serious. And yes, I think we need to report on them and talk to all the principles. And we are among the few sites that have statements from some of the principles and alex y story, I think that's important, but it's because we spend our time insisting on having statements from named principles in our stories.

And we get to do that because we run our own little, little platform and that cycle of okay, if i'm totally dependent on youtube, I have to do whatever youtube wants me to do is a platform to get of views like you can just see how IT just spirals out of control and no one over over again like youtube talk about the all time and very few people have the opportunity step out of that and say, look, I need to impose my own principles here or I need to borrow some principles from other kinds of media that have done this before instead of just it's a raw competition for attention and views on these platforms. So I just see that very clearly, most of because I lived through IT as a baby in a different media like this has been my experience in media. And we have been lucky to say we are onna build our thing as a group under the brand of the verge.

And if i'm not here, that the virtual persist because IT is a brand that stands for something and like we own IT, like we own our platform, yes, we are very dependent on other algorithmic traffics early. Yes, I have talked about that at link. But at the end of the day of our website is our website and we that choose IT because on IT and not really overthink IT and like that's the distance that I think is important to enables us to journalism.

But that is really hard fought. Like, no point is that not on my my like, alex and David. Like, no, like, this is what I think about all day long that's we're going to bring to the story.

Like, and I want to overdo this conversation. I just see pattern repeating and it's at one stage for youtube, but it's another stage for tiktok and it's just gona keep happening as new media emerges right on that. No, there is some youtube news this week, which is kind of fascinating.

Youtube is a platform in a really interesting space, right? There is youtube shorts and there are kind of adding some tiktok y features. And then there is youtube TV. And I guarantee you, with this coming football season, youtube TV is going to be the thing that they talk about and promote and think about more than anything, which is wild because it's a cable.

Bo IT isn't IT isn't right. So i've been talking to youtube about this for forever. And the thing that is true about youtube is IT has all of the pieces of everything on its platform, right? Like every single entertainment thing you can imagine exists somewhere inside of youtube.

And the thing youtube has never successfully done is put all those pieces together, right? Like you look at youtube music and it's like, okay, you have a library of music. You also have every life performance ever.

You have this incredible library of covers, the people do you have all this fan makes stuff like, how are you not figuring out how to give me every imaginable Taylor swift thing all in one place? And serious like no platform more of that. The youtube and IT has never successfully stitched all of IT together.

And I think what is trying to do with football is very much the same thing, right? So they paid what we've heard and reported with two billion dollars a year for nfl sunday ticket, huge amount money. There's, I would say, very little chance that, that is going to be like a strictly very profitable thing for youtube, especially in the early days.

But what they're trying to do is figure out, okay, how do we use that to essentially sell you a cable bundle, which, like you said, is deeply hilarious and we should talk more about the fact that everything is just capable on again. But they're also trying to figure out how to make IT youtube right. Like one of the things youtube announce this week is that they're adding a bunch of features to sunday ticket.

They are going to have live chat and polls inside a game, which to me sounds like just like a waking nightmare, like watching football, while a million internet strangers like yell about football sounds awful. That's what twitter used before, but I don't know whatever. And they added a thing where there's now going to be a live set of shorts showing real time highlights from every game on sunday, which is like technically really weird and complicated and and i've lots questions, but is a really interesting idea.

And they're doing all the stuff with creators that they are not really talking about yet. But basically, what IT seems like is youtube creators are going to have kind of unlimited access to a huge amount of football content, yeah, which is going to be really interesting and is the kind of thing that creators have not had easy access to before. So there's this thing.

We're youtube like, okay, we have football like boiled all the way down, right? Like we have football plays that happened on a field. Water like all of the youtube things we can do with them, which I just think is like the most interesting question in the universe. And I think youtube black has barely any idea of all of the answers that there are to that. But it's going to be super interesting, like see how all of that shakes out.

The creator side is another interesting thing because there's no lack of football plays on youtube right now.

Yeah but if you if you like still if you run the risk of like a copyright strike and it's like things can get kind of awkward like one thing I watch a lot of is people talking about soccer, right? And there's like this weird game you have to play if you are not the ride holder where it'll show like awkward animated stick figure pictures of people moving around to like demonstrate tactics um or there's one guy who is a great thing works I can overhead shot of what looks like a the old microsoft surface where he like move little things around on the screen and people do this sort of clever hacks to get around the fact that they can't actually just use the game and and what the nfl is now doing is saying all of these people who want to make things about football lic here have the game, and you've been able to watch highs before, but you've never been able to like, use them in the way that, like you can use music. And I think that is big.

That's a good comparison to music, right? Like all the social platforms apart from twitter, we should we can talk about briefly, but all the social platforms basically blanket licenses to the music logs and then creators can use them. And there's content ID in boba and the right toller get paid when you use music on youtube. I'm skipping over an awful lot of complexity there, but that's .

that's supposed .

to where's sports leagues have not issued these sort of blank of licenses. So this is like the first time with a major league in a huge setting that this has been enabled. I'm sort of curious how that works. I am too like are the youtube not .

explained all of that? There's a lot left to do, and I get the sense there's a lot they haven't quite figured out yet. And I think you're probably going to spend this first season figuring out, but like that, very much of they're heading down.

And I think it's really interest why can't you just use the car comment on film, like movies and T, V shows? You can just be like here, IT is i'm talking about these two, six people talking because .

the good of the commissioner of the nfl will come to your house and beat you is basically like the truly like exports. Leagues are at the bleeding edge of being incredibly litigious about people using their stuff that they're not allowed to use.

And the leagues, i've gotten more permissive over time, I would say, because they've realized that having things on the house of highlights, on instagram and on the various accounts on different social media, atom is actually a good marketing thing. Uh, the N. B, A has been way out in front of this.

They were like, oh, you want to like, show cool highlights and make more people watch basketball. terrific. Nus, out. The nfl has been kind of all the way in the other end of the spectrum where the nfl has been super, super, super protective of all of that stuff over the years. And even IT has loosen up a little, but like it's it's the most valuable video that exists in the world in like a very real way. And they've always been super protective of IT.

And it's funny because they were going to sign this deal with apple. And apple is like we want to do cool broadcast ideas for V R. And they said no because they don't know how that it's going to work.

They don't know where the money you'll come from and they ended up with youtube. It's like we're going na use your clips across youtube. And presumably when creators use these clips, the nfl will get money right the same way that the labels get money when you use music on youtube title. And I think the N F felt is like deeply understands that, oh, automated licensing revenue. We understand that weird VR heads, that idea give us thirty five years like a hundred percent this what that is happening there yeah they're .

still stuck on would you like to watch this game on your phone where we're not nearly the r yet?

I guess there's just like confused why it's not considered fair use to just do sports.

So IT is right. Your your problem is very is complicated. You need to do you need to add some value that's basically the standards transparently for you need to make something new out of a clip.

So yes, if you are sitting there doing like deep analysis, dana oy, and analysis of a play he doesn't span, you're like using like several short seconds to like showing difference. You like in IT, you can do that. And for example, our sister site, espinal, got a secret base on youtube.

They are doing this all over the place and IT is great. And as various as classic is like inside for years. If you are just a creator, like look at this school play, you you can have to fight your way through IT, right? And like most individual creators, like we've been talking you about, the infrastructure to have that fight does not exist for them, especially if you like a new creator.

So youtube content ID and like the platform, like they don't want to have to fight at scale to sports leagues who might all become lucrative partners in the future. So they just clamp down on IT and you just can cease that, that back in fourth day. And that happened all over the place. Where's a bigger company in E S P N or a fox or whatever like has an infrastructure to like push forward the fair use argument. And so like to be that should be like I if you are like a wealth and independently wealthy youtube sports creator to probably solve this problem yeah but like most youtube creators are afraid like try because they'd rather just make the next video and make money instead of spending money for well.

then the take notice is always terrifying even if you're like i'm in the right. It's like, no, this is terrifying. I have to burn my entire account, walk away that I have any experience with that.

The youtube notice and take down is all in dms, so all complained to that. And IT basically kicks you out til I go have a lawsuit and come back and tells out what like IT. The youtube itself is not there to immediate the problem with you.

They are there to comply with a dmca, which is to say there was a notice of the take down and you can appeal to take down and like we'll do a thing and like sort of at the end of that rainbow is did you call you a lawyer and once you get there, like i'm just to make for the next like screw IT, right? Because if you get a number of strikes, your channel, this is a whole thing. And I guess I like big companies can solve this problem, individual creators, something here.

So IT is like, kind of great that youtube realized. Like h we don't just want this in our cable bundle. We want this on youtube.

And they created some financial relationships so that you can use the stuff like you can use music. I'm just very curious to see how the nfl reacts to. Lots and lots of youtube creators using nfl clipsed the way that they use music because that is an uncontrolled vironment. And we have no idea that the youtube is going to put guard ries on IT.

Yeah yeah. We there's there's a lot we still don't know. And the season starts, I think like september seventh, I think what's available on that first day versus what's available at the end of the season, I suspect, is to end up pretty different. Yeah, but i'm very curious to see.

So that's one part of youtube. And on the other side of youtube, on the short side, they're adding more samples, they're adding more music. A big part of the tiktok like win has been its relationship with the music industry.

And breaking new records, breaking new sounds, planet of the base is like a thing that is happening because of tiktok. So youtube music is chasing after that. And then sort of next to all of that, more governments are banning tiktok.

So nyc has been tiktok and city and devices that tracks lots of other cities and states. And then cranes. You had an incredible reaction to the headline and the elson released in data saying, okay, TV viewing is officially down like people watching lenie. TV is now half the people in theory and you were like, fuck this. What is going on there?

Okay, so so the headline is it's like it's accurate.

I'm not even sure I agree with that.

but there's a big astros. There's a few huge astro s if that this is all coming from data that they only started gathering two years ago. So like all time abstracts, we only started doing this two years ago OK. Technically, I feel like meals son, would pr would come to me like this is technically accurate and I feel like IT is. But also it's not it's accurate.

but it's meaningless. And and honestly, and we've talked to at this a bunch, but there was also this like big financial time story the other day that was like streaming as officially more expensive than cable. And it's like, well, okay, sure.

If you have this gigantic list streaming services and if you have this made up promotional Price for cable that no one actually has, sure, streaming is more expensive. The cable. congratulations. But we're at this point, we're like to me, all of this has proven and this like goes along with what a lot of people in the strike of the document data transparently. Nobody knows anything.

We don't know that Nelson is the best thing we have and was reasonably good when most people watched all of their television sitting on their couch in front of their television. Even then, IT was a mess. But IT was IT was good enough.

Now it's like IT gets this one tiny sliver of how people experience entertainment. IT doesn't capture mobile very well. IT doesn't capture a huge a portion of how people spend their lives. And to me, I don't take anything away from any of this data except that like people watch lots of TV, lots of places and nobody knows anything.

This is my my theory. My underlying theory of the television industry is that no one knows how to measure anything. I think that's right. All the night are fake. Agreeing to measure everything in the same way is a nuclear bomb waiting to go off for this industry.

well. And ironically, now where we are is the streamers know like netflix knows and is increasingly distinctive ves to tell anybody because like if nobody knows anything netflix .

is going to do because of the ads that netflix is doing, they're going to do something with Nelson, right? Or Nelson wants that contract. Which one of the reasons I think that this head killer are the other line basic is like the streamers one and then they're going to walk in the next place office ah and feel like we just said you want like do you wanted measure, by the way, disclose or speaking of disclosure and transparently.

Cy, we made an ethnic show. I'm an ethnic cp. You should go watch that show. Someone wrote us a very nice email um asking if we are allowed to talk about our network wdx the strikes. The answer is that our netflix show wasn't a union production and it's also over.

So I don't think i'm going to be arrested, but let me know if you're in one of the union and I wanted to stop talking really made two years ago, let me know no, that's one disclosure. Uh conceive its nbc universal armor is an investor invoke media, our parent company, a alex is in the w ga. Our news room is organized of the W G.

A. east. I have hb o, i've been washing hard. Knox at a manian. It's a crime.

The heart knocks is on the tuesdays at ten P M, instead of sundays at nine P M. Like IT should be. Uh, I feel very strongly about that.

That's my personal vice there. I've really weird feelings like and Rogers right now, but I think that's IT. I think there's a much that teams, right? Yeah, I have a TV back there.

That's disclosure anyhow. Uh, network is also a lot of pressure to release these ratings. So they need to sell ads.

You need to tell the advertisers only who watch your ads. That's going to happen to atrio max. That's gonna en IT discust. All one of these ad tears, and that is the thing that is going to provide one set of pressures to release standardized metrics so the ad market can decide where to spend dollars and the other vans can happen. That is, in the strikes.

One of the demands from these unions is tell us what shows are successful so we can calculate our residuals more accurately, get more money. And that's going to place another amount pressure that might finally break this fever. But I have no idea how to play.

Well, that sounds like that. That was some of the big news this week was that the producers said, oh yeah, we're now going to give you more access to data. We don't know all the details yet, but they they finally agreed to like yeah IT makes sense that you guys should probably have more data, which everyone knew before this, but it's nice that they agree finally .

not to get into the mechanics of that negotiation, but the streamers were going to have to give up the data to advertisers like IT was going to happen just because of the nature of that market. So I think this is like the concession they were most willing to give because they needed to standardize and synthesize all the tina.

The questions, whether it's neil son or pair down or whatever, who knows? But the idea that the data needs to be standardize, everyone can so everyone can understand IT that's coming from the ad market that's not coming from that negotiation. I think this is a good concession and a useful one to all this, but it's eventually advertise.

Just going to say how many people saw my ad. You just have to have a answer. okay? We should take a break.

There's a wild ride in the first time, say, where did to take a break, where and come back. Women dip twenty five years into the past and talk about the imac would dancy her. Get your brands ready.

With mx platform.

you can really .

be in the now access to razi priority. Notify yes for A P M. Checkout with five hotels and resorts book through M.

X. travel. We needed this and dedicated card member entrances at the elect event.

Let's go.

You can focus on the present moment that the powerful backing of american express terms apply. Learn more at american express by com setch with a max card member entrance access not limited to A M X plat them card support for the show comes from crucible moments, a podcast from scope capital. We've all had turning points in our lives where the decisions we make end up having lasting consequences.

No one knows this Better than the founders of some of today's most influential in Christmas moments. Let's listeners in on the maker break events that defined major companies like dropbox, youtube, Robin hood and more told by the founders themselves, tune in to the season two of crucial moments. Today you can listen at crucial moments, top com, or very listen podcasts.

Our back then see for as your head. And hello, welcome back to the show. You had a big package just week.

Our friend Jason snell contributed. A suffering man on the verge contributed. This week was the twenty fifth anniversary of the imac. There's a lot to unit that means a lot of things .

yeah that means were old.

means were old. IT is incredible to think that the mac was a Younger platform when the imac came out and the iphone is now were pointed that when he linked to to ur s visual history of the mac, so the mac was fourteen when the imac came out, the iphone today is sixteen, which is just bonkers to think yeah where these respective products are in their impact in the world. But the I like really changed a lot of things. Tell us what this .

fact is in yeah so you know twenty five years since the first imac won sales like aug fifteen thousand and eighty eight, the imac, as Jason really pointed out really well in his piece, IT was the product that really turned around the companies and fortunes IT allowed them. IT was successful and popular enough to basically develop the ipod, which then became successful, popular enough to develop the iphone.

And then you know, apple becomes three trillion dollar company, so without the imac, like you don't have any of that. And apple at the time was like very on the brink of not existing anymore. And all of the products that had been developed in the nineties were like these kind of beige boxes, very typical looking, not a whole lot of creativity or design we're put into them.

But then when jobs came back and teamed up with i've and they brought out the imac and just kind like changed everything in terms of like the perspective of what like a home or a consumer electronic in your home could look like. He had this like radical design. IT was the thing that was like people looked at IT and they wanted IT, whereas you looked at PC at the time, you look at to maybe you wanted use IT and like do things on that, but you didn't want the object itself.

IT was just a box where as the imac was an object and then that design was so influential, IT not only permeated throughout apples, line up, influencing the design of what the software look like on max, and then further round down the line. But IT also made transsolar cent plastic products really popular at the turn of the century, all the way down to the infamous George forming girl. That looks like an mic.

I had never seen that before until this package became a thing. And i'm now obsessed with this. Translucent georg IT is thing I want most in the world. If if anyone listen, wants to buy.

anyone do not buy a use, George .

forming .

what if in main condition.

and then it's got the .

bond products that can never be cleaned. No one has ever perfectly cleaned. The George former girl cannot be done.

I clean us constantly and it's just full discussing .

what you have today in twenty twenty three George forman grow.

I am reasonable, confident that the George forming good to I have is older than both me and my wife. Um IT was like my wife's grandmas and I just somehow was in our house. I don't know how I got here.

Maybe we should just switch the just .

I use IT all the time. It's great.

What do you use IT for? Are you making like like stuff burgers like George .

format yeah constantly. No, it's like if i'm saying if you if you have leftover chicken breast and some cold bread and you want to throw on the former girl for ninety seconds launched bob s, your uncle.

it's your penetier.

Ss, yeah. no. But the back to the I. David recipe blog is another story for another day.

Oh yeah, that's going to be success. Time of the views. It's some cold chicken on a thirty year .

old old church for I want to hear the story about how your White grandmother drew up building with the, with the George forming girl.

Will we live or die today at lunch time with David pears?

Do you know those things that just end up in your house? You're like, I didn't buy this. I never asked for this. I just have this now that's that's the former girl. My house, like it's George forman himself, might have brought IT a to our house for all like I sincerely don't know.

But the thing about the imac, the most blue my mind then was like reading Jason peace, the the fall, like you low energy of this thing from apple in one thousand nine hundred and eighty eight, where they're just like, oh, you want a flappy disk screw, you USB, uh, you want a thing that looks like a computer? No, here is this weird pigs are looking peace and nonsense. There's just like, you just get this vibe from apple that I kind of love for. They're like, look, we know if this doesn't work, were screwed and realistically, we're probably screw anyway. So like here's the weird to think we can think of do like got a handle .

and people did well. So I was talking about this on insurance threats with these people. You know, people are keep saying they want to desktop version program threats.

This is like the thing everyone said. We say IT mark zuker is applying to j Peters saying it's coming soon because we say a lot. That's the real thing that happened this week.

What they mean is a web version, right? The desktop application default that most people think about is a web APP, especially for a platform instagram. S you know what is that asking for? Like a native win thirty two .

instagram threads application .

yeah but that's like a very small, just like not the thing. People ask if if instagram response was you can run the iphone APP on your mac using apple silicon, some nerds would be very happy. And most people, what the health is, I just want to run my brothers in apple, in particular, with the imac.

That was the moment that that began right until that computer that stop applications on computers were one generally not connected, right? The web was just starting. That was the winter monthly.

The height of the winter, even like a AMD in that moment, was like a serious competitor to intel. So you had win thirty two in the intel and that was the application environment. Ninety nine percent of everything in the mac was just like run platform that microsoft sort of openly talking about supporting.

So they wouldn't be him an open like they're like as long as competition, we won't get sued by the just department. Little did they know this is like, this is a lot like in in that moment, apple basically said there's this idea of a network computer, the original audio like a five hundred or terminal, with just a web broster, which we finally gotten to you like chrome boxes. But that was like, sort of the genesis.

And I got bigger because that I couldn't really build IT then, but no floppy drive was so you could send files. Radical idea. That time they were like entire issues of macros that like, how will we survive?

I think I was like what mother's one criticism of IT in his review yeah was like, no floppy.

This this is before. And then importantly, the reason that this was a viable product to sell the people was that they were like, you can just plug IT into the internet and use the web, which is the thing you want. You don't want microsoft word running on an install processor on windows.

You want a web browser that can bring on the school web stuff. And if not for the web and web standards, this computer is a gargantuan flow, right? IT looked cool as hell.

IT dropped all the bullshit. You only really had to plug in. But two ears like that was a very famous commercial. Like you plug IT in, there's no step three of gold bloom like that whole thing. IT signed you up for an access to or an icp and they could just like run a by product.

And now we're just twenty five years later, people are like, I want to just up verse of instant reads and they mean a web up. And if there's just a straight line from that idea to to this idea that I think we often underestimate, like that's the revolution. The phone is very important. IT just came in just the last piece of that puzzle. The first one was, oh, we can sell a computer that basically runs a web brows er and like if we do a good job of that, we can become the apple that we are today.

which is why like the john y ive thing became so important right like the time giving a new crap about design perfectly because like I I think Jason has this line in his piece that's like on the internet. Nobody knew you are using a mac and I love that because it's it's true and it's like you could just buy the computer that looked cool and was blue and had a handle and all the stuff you wanted to do on the internet, you could still do. And I was like apple, being a hardware company, worked for IT in a sort of unique way in that moment because I had no ecosystem play was like, we all we can do is build a cool thing and hope that people want to use IT because we don't have any other moves.

Yeah, the power B, C, G three. Have you heard a bit? It's we're we're going to walk away from this as fast as weekend and all that stuff is really hard for them.

Like I think we underestimated apples. Very good at processor transitions. Now we take you for granted.

We're going to run the max on apple scan. And right, oh, you're good at this. In that moment, they were stuck on the g three architecture. They were stuck with the, I like lunch with the OS nine, which, if you are old, that was not a good Operating system.

IT was sweet. What are you talking about? You could customize your text.

You could. This is an Operating system that famously, until the very end, you could bring the entire OS to a dead halt by holding down the mouse. And that was like, quite designed, like IT dit was not a native multi tasking, multi thread at OS.

I think until the very, very end of O S. Nine, you could be like, you know, I just need to, everyone stop for something. They just like, hold down the mass and you, we're waiting.

We're waited. Everyone show the fucking out like, we're waiting like, and they had to do OS don't like all this stuff they had to do, but they needed to sell enough IMAX to get there. That kind of brings us where the IMAX is, right? That's the history. I will say that you should look at the visual history that we did, uh, and we should all stop and take a moment and recognized the image. Or is the pinnacle computer design?

Are you crazy?

Can I tell you a story about the image for? So I bought, let's see, this is probably twenty eleven. I bought an M X G four because I was the only mac I could afford, which you will, you will realize if you do math and is a nine year old computer that is long since out of day that no one is caring about IT IT was, this is the only mac I could afford.

I bought IT from a stranger on crags list we made in, uh, I believe I was union square and he literally like, went through an existent al crisis giving me this computer that I think i've paid like one hundred and fifty dollars for because he wanted IT so bad and regretted so immediately selling this thing to me he was handing IT to me, was like, uh, but if so I just I don't need a like I I love IT and it's yeah I guess that's why I wanted to to like, I want this old best computer because it's a cool looking the g four was my first ever mac period and IT was so old and so useless at that point. And I loved IT to pieces because I was so cool looking. IT was just the I genuinely think that I agree with you. I think it's the best looking computer ever made. I love to that thing.

It's a shame the only did for one generation I was at last year, like a year, a half or so, and then boom, right onto what ultimately looked like a big ipod.

Well, I was sorry to say about that. But cranes, I want to hear your bad opinion about the think.

did you guys have to use that? G four? I, mac, yeah.

David used that. IT. I mean, he still, you is right next to forming grille.

but very look .

at the time, because he was not great like that. I don't know that the g three was just there, something much to be charming about. The g three, I max, like the big and everything.

Well, I think the g three was almost like cartoon like. And then the g four was a much more serious. This is the future looking thing.

Hold on. We get at this time, and right there is original and act responded blue. Then there is the the rainbow ones, the five colors.

Those are the ones you might be talking about. That's the, that's M, C. three.

Then there is a bizarre interregnum where Steve jobs got on a stage and with some exciting new IMAX to offer you today. And everyone thought he was in to your flat petal iam. And he was like, these mother fuckers are called donation and flower power.

And literally people were like, what are you talking about? And I was like, the last gasp of that shape. Go look at a blue donation imac. They cannot be found.

Oh my, this is the ugliest thing I ever seen.

Like apple went across the world in country, collected them all, and was like the memory hold this. Steve jobs famously walked off of stage when he anounced things after sensing the vide in the room and said, IT should have been fucking ready. And what he meant was the flat panel. I'm actually have been ready. Yeah, this is a real thing.

You can go look this up. I just google this and i'm looking at this for the first time in my life. And first of all, everyone should do this and look at these because these are incredible. And what this look like to me is if somebody took a Normal imac and then like, you know, there's really awful like dollar ninety nine skins you can buy on your phone.

That like from izon that you'd do, you just like apply to the back of your phone and they don't quite stick, right? And it's very clear that somebody just like took a picture of a picture of a picture of a wallpaper and then put IT on this. That's what this .

looks like to me. They are nuts. Well, we had them in my computer lab in college, and they are nuts. Like.

so I was to say I was was in college around the same time, and I had to do IT. So I had to like, work on everybody's computers. That's that's what my peace a on the imac is about.

Is this why we vive? Because we are both ecologic people don't think really touch. But I ve known IT .

my heart for quite. And yeah it's why, it's why, it's why we always judge IT. He was in high school in like a boy.

he where the .

that .

has come from up shot.

I was out just like party and didn't lads are good.

We had computers, but we were have a great time there.

Dance .

suspiciously quiet on what he was doing in this period.

I was an I T person in high school.

Here we go with the cool kids.

I had A A high school .

job as PC tech for a local hospital. I think it's very obvious .

that this group of people was nerds in high school. How is continue story different?

But but no, you could tell like basically how much people's parents spent on them for school based on which generation of eyes bac they had. So somebody comes with a bondy blue.

You're like, you got to .

hand me down. They had like the blue barrier or something really okay, okay. And then they had that domination one. You're like, wow, you're loaded.

This is a straight class system based on imac colors that you have been done on your customers in the college shop. There was like a middle period that we have taught what I think I mac TV, where the shells got clear as alco. L, but not, that was the last version.

And then this is the thing I wted to see, what the g four IT was a Steve jobs moment, unlike any other where they released the inactive for. And he was, like, everyone else solves a slap anal computer problem by putting the computer behind the display. He did the thing, like, put up a bad version of that drawing.

And he was like, this is in the right idea. We made IT a sunflower. And the thing was, on the cover of time magazine, I think IT was a Steven levy piece and cover time magazine and jobs and john y. I've told an entire story in time magazine about how they were trying to solve this problem, where the computer ago, the flat panel, and they were walking, and they saw Sunny, lower, and the birds saying, and john y looked at Steve, and Steve looked at john y and they were like, we did IT in an eighteen .

months later front.

But it's like they sold that thing so completely until they were ready to do at the right way and then they dropped IT like a stone. They're like we actually solve the problem. And here's the thing you've always wanted.

And IT has been that thing ever since. And I just that thing where they so completely bought into the solution they had at the minute, until they were ready to do IT the way they wanted. And then they never talked about IT again.

They, what would dead? Dead to the world? Like, no company can do that now, like even apple basically cannot do that anymore, right? There are too many insult devices, are too many old things to support, like all this stuff to be like.

For eighteen months, we talked about sunflowers. Never remember that again, raised the sunflowers from your brain. Now it's a White piece of White rectangle. And that's the future of the imac, to me is like in in the history, the IMAX that moment is more about apple's culture than anything else and it's sort of like unremarked upon because no, they they successful ly memory hold the image for but is that shift doesn't oh they are ruthless like they are ruthless about getting to the right answer as fast as I can and not talking about everything they didn't past to this day.

But you think about a car company force, like we made another bronco that looks like the old bronco, like here's yet another like most companies are very excited to trade on their past in a way that apple maybe a little bit more recently. But you will note apple said nothing about twenty five years of the imac. Yeah, they just came in.

went they have they had two opportunities to say that this year, the announcement in may and then the uh in store in August, which is when we turned our package. But yeah not a people yeah and .

and I think it's all of that apple cultures is pinpointed in that moment where literally this computer is is on the cover of time magazine in the eighteen months later there here's here's the light when you want. And like that was that like the end we have the other PC here is really about the future, the imac, right? Where does IT go now? It's get in a weird spot.

Yeah yeah. So Monica wrote really great peace on, you know, nowadays apple's mac business is seventy five, eighty percent laptops. And then the rest is like really niche computers, the mac studio, the mac mini.

And then there is the imac, which was updated in spring twenty twenty one with the m one. Ships got their new design and it's basically just been parked for like two and half years now. We've got in two chips and other laptops or other mac computers. It's not in the imac for whatever reason, but like the imac has been this kind of thing that just kind of absent flows for the past decade or so.

Like apple will released an update and then ignore IT for like four years and then we get an I mac pro and then that gets ignored for four years and then IT, then we get a new m one imac and then they get ignored for however many years. So much to take away was ultimately that like apple isn't dishing the imac or getting rid of the imac, that's just kind of the way the place that the imac sits in. Today's apple is just much less prominent and less h influential than IT was two decades ago, recently, two and half decades ago.

So it's just like a different product. What's interesting to me is that the original image and we talked about and all the generations after that were basically safe for the imac pro pitched as consumer products and consumer computers. And the current imac is still kind of pitched as that consumer computer, whether the other mac desktop s are really pitched towards professional creative niches cases. Uh, but apple doesn't really talk about the imac all that often outside of its like initial launch when they showed yellow IMAX in kitchens, which is a very odd place to put in imac especially .

that IT does not have a touch screen.

does not have a touch Green. Yeah no you need your your touch pad, you your track pad and keyboard in addition to your my mac in your kitchen.

Can I run a theory by you guys that I think is right, but have no actual data for just lots of anette evidence? I would bet that people keep IMAX longer than any other single apple products, like I would get the average use lifespan of an eye mac is the longest of any other mac because the the screen is very good. The thing works relatively well.

You're not onna. Notice when the battery started to give out, which is often the first thing that goes in a lot of laptops and the like inertia of updating is so big because it's just the whole thing. If I have a dress up, I like one to create the mac mini i'm sitting here with.

I can keep everything else I have and just slaughter a new mac mini. Upgrading your imac is like upgrading your whole office all at once. And also like you said, and these are consumer things that people are like, this is like the families st computer that apple has, right? And I think if you if you have like a twenty eleven imac, that's just like sitting in your end, the like leap to upgrade that is huge.

And the reasons to upgrade that when it's like a pretty good screen. And the only thing that's really wrong with IT twelve years later, that is like pretty slow. My guess would be that like the average lifespan of one of those things is just absolutely off the charts.

And if I am apple, i'm looking at that and say, well, i'm going to sell people computer. They're going to upgrade once every eleven years. I'd rather sell them a macbook. They are going to won a new one in three.

Yeah you know people do with their macbook air. They drop them. They build .

things on temple. The battery.

the battery part of this is the big like that's a big part of this because those batteries go and and you can't replace some on on newer laptops and stuff sods just like your new board where as your imac can go forever. I think somebody on this call might be recording with like an ancient .

I am looking right now. It's a twenty fifteen seven I mac.

I will say that I and you're you name another gadget you own that is eight years old.

Cameras are coming up on that, the seven and five hundred and coming up on that. But that's like good. That's like an emotional like I should have got.

I can take a lot of ship from this team for slight. I came, you know, it's never done me wrong. Oh, mansle got IT this computer I basically used for this.

I run one web up on IT. I run riverside to do this show, and it's this set up and very close to IT. It's fine. Ah IT is radical over spect. So I are our studio, oxford.

A studios was upgrading their computers many years ago and they were just gona recycle this and like i'm taking because we just like sitting on the curb and I can I more and they are like, don't tell you what now it's all everyone so close. But IT has IT has with the key is that has thirty two games were him. And this is like the key to the longevity of every computer.

My opinion, IT has master more RAM than IT needed in its time. And that means that says forever, which is, why is everybody buys a mac now that eight cakes of RAM is not enough like that to me is more of the evidence of apples planned ops lessons than anything else is eight cakes of solar RAM? No, no, no.

no.

Don't do that. And it's just weird. And I I think David is right.

I like sits in lot of place and my parents have an ancient one. They refer to IT as the main frame. It's very good. And they go to IT when they want to do anything serious like logging into the bank yeah because they want a big screen and a browse that you feel safe and .

use your phone. I know parents like bank apps because .

they feel like their phone is not serious enough for a logged into the bank. Yeah okay. I I think that .

what you know what you're describing, any line, what David you described as like it's sitting in a then that is like the concept the visual concept of the imac IT was a shared family computer and is just that at this point, at this time, that doesn't exist as a product for a lot of people in functional ways in their lives. If you've got kids in school, they're not coming home and sitting at a desktop to do their homework.

They're doing IT on a chrome book that links up to their schools network court and goes with them to school or they have their own personal devices and ipad or iphone or whatever smartphone. The shared concept of a family computer is like not something that really fits into the modern day life. Whereas other test tops in apple linux, the mac mini, the max studio at sea are they have like purposes that fit into people's lives as like devices that they work on all day. But the imac, as the family thing, doesn't release this anymore.

That was like, I mean, the I bec itself was a response to everybody had family computers, like in the eighties and nineties, if you had a computer IT would probably wasn't in your room unless you were like just rta written right like .

you had a lot of like get that pollution peer out of my face.

You don't have that like everybody that so the imac when the imac came out was like, oh, this is a computer or it's not just the parents using a bage box like the kids can interact with this, which is why my brother watched a bug's life on repeat every day over and over and over again on the day thing. In nowaday, computers are cheaper. They are more affordable.

So in laptops have become much, much more affordable than they were at the time. Like a laptop was still insanely expensive at the time. I I think all of my laptops until I got out of college were hand me down because my parents, like, absolutely not.

You do not get a brand new laptop. You're going to drop on its face and break. And then we have to pay for IT get out, but the Prices have come down. So it's like it's much more affordable. It's much easier to go and buy a chrome book for a kid and be okay. Everybody's going to use this communal computer in the living room and also like we have to have a space in our living room carved out just for the computer, then you yet one kid on the computer, another kid watching T, V, and they all yEllen at each other, and now they can just all have phones and be quite in another.

Or the school dict ates that they have a crobble, which like takes the decision out of your hands entirely and then like that I meet that you have sitting there is like not used by them because it's not the tool that fits into the rest of their curriculum.

I just made IT a striking case to bring back the computer room.

I was just to on this, yeah.

I want a computer room that was the best, like you are always sitting in, like a dining room chair that you should not be sitting in, hunched over IT.

Everybody had that horrible office max furniture in computer, you know, talking about the desk and the hush, the whole thing. Here's what I version. Listeners send me photos of your computer rooms, not your modern gamer rooms.

I mean, your childhood computer rooms. If you have such a photo, I just want to look at him. And maybe we will run like a thing about computer rooms.

Who knows if they're good enough? good. I do not want your weird game or in with your L D lightings.

In your wifi is I want your four eighty six tower with a turbo button within carta. Open on A C. R. T.

That's the real i'm looking for photo.

Yeah, you know exactly what i'm talking about. Show me where you came from.

I had a gateway with the cow logo. That was those of days.

Yeah, give me your origin story in a photo of your computer. And we we've thought what they are like quite a bit. There is an apple event coming up with resuming in september for iphones.

It's a Price guest given the decade plus of iphones coming out in september. I was seventeen. Betas are out down. Any thoughts here?

Ah they keep moving to the end call, but in which uh seems to be driving you a while. I think you know other than that, I think I was seventeen is going to be for a lot of people. And we have kind of said this in our preview coverage already. That is going to be pretty small update across a lot of things. And some people are really going to appreciate little things like interactive widgets.

I was going to say my one quibble with the characteristic of small update is that every APP developer that exists on the internet not shut up about how excited they are about interactive budget. It's going to get full crazy with the interactive budgets, and i'm very excited.

Maybe you'll just be more exciting when IT launches and those that developers can actually put .

out their work with you, you're going to check off to do the home screen of your iphone and you're gna freak out.

It's going to be great to be so at the girls y story. Check off to do my budget like I could been doing on android since twenty ten.

Come on.

Well, yeah, I mean, other than that, it's gonna the seventeen, the version of .

what what we expected .

to change here.

I am excited because I the autocratic situation is bad. IT has now, the people have pointed out, so consistent to us. IT has gotten worse in a way that is impossible to measure, but it's definitely worse.

And I just i'm just looking forward this update give me your L M powered auto, correct? Like i'll take IT. Anything has to Better than this. It's weird, right? If you guys know it's gotten worse.

everybody judges, they always know. And I on my phone because there's always at least one horrible, confusing typo that like, apple is just like, no, I got you. I'm gonna change this word IT totally makes sense. No, IT doesn't a terrible context.

My theory is that apple is just trying to push us towards that humane a ipad. They like, what if you don't use this computer? What if you just talk to you instead? Just.

hey guys, what's up? I have thoughts about the show were watched.

By the way, the humane is a totally random of the entice this week that they are going to launch to do something in october on the day of of an eclipse that's after they put out wash the video, they call out her friends sam sheer in the video. That always makes me smile. It's like the only time they all light up is when they talk to sam. Sam, not even in the vials behind the camera, and they're like sam and they all smile and I just made me happy. But they're like, a moment's day is coming when the sun will be blacked out forever and then you will talk to your hand and like, okay, so sometime in october um they're going to released this pen and we can all .

see what's up the talk to the hand puns. We just got to get those out of our systems. And it's probably just me. I just got to get that out of my system. mental.

I did the post about porn. Ub, my geek swing, a restaurant in yc city called donor house. It's a kaaba b restaurant. And I like dooming the dry place. And everyone in the .

comments make the drug you see other people do IT like, it's right. There is like, ocma, i'm onna resist.

Do IT for me. I was like, i'm just begging you and like, here is we said IT fine, okay, we got to take a break, broken back in the lighting around with them will be like them.

Support for the show comes from clavo you're building a business clavo helps you grow IT cabos, A I powered marketing platform, puts all your customer data plus email ms in analytics in one place with cvo tend fish, fish wife deliveries, real time personalized experiences that keeps their customers hooked. They've grown seventy times revenue in just four years. With now that scale, visit K L A B I Y O dot com to learn how brands like fish wife build smarter digital relationships with cavo. Some tax presents the island outs of caring for your home out program ation putting IT off, kicking the can down the road in plans and guides that make IT easy to get home projects done out carpet in the bathroom, like why in knowing what to do, when to do IT and who to hire, start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thompson today.

Back slightness around time. There's a lot going on in the slightly .

round is so much good stuff and some like sad stuff, many good stuff.

There's also an email where the subject in is H I discuss me, which is just .

we have found .

our people like they get us.

I keep I use this line that I I ruthlessly stole from casey in at other time, which is anybody can get traffic, but it's impossible to get an audience and it's like we have an audience like that does you have to trust us to send us that that's a relationship. And I appreciate you that was from sale anyway. His point is a display for a superior H I.

Because of a piece and hacky hack about way I person in a long history with us. There's a long intertwining of hack day and in gadget back and day we'll link the hack to hay piece about display for being Better. But he might discuss me sell .

in the email by saying, I feel like i've been read pilled by display port, which is unbelievable.

It's very good. Look, display board is packet based and I understand understand the point. Fine OK lying around cranes, you've got the best one. Take us away.

Are you ever like having a dinner party with your friends outside? And you're like, I really wants to watch some TV so you go to get your little suitcase out of the closet and you put that out and watch your TV because it's in the suitcase and then later you're like, oh, man, i'm going going camping with the buddies. I need to watch TV on my camping trip so you bring you a little suitcase with you.

LG was like, everybody needs to be able to do that, not just people who built a suitcase TV. The rest of us need to be able to do is so there's the twenty seven inch. Stand by me.

Go to be clear, not stand by me.

which would make sense. Stand by me.

I not, not me. Go the a intel, this mobile platform.

I'm just, i'm going to stay by me, me go like I refuse to, to break IT out into one in multiple words. It's beautiful. I can last three hours on a charge. Get through one of the lord.

the rings movies I just have, like, there is so much a room verb, it's a suitcase. We to .

twenty seven, three, two.

you guys I have, I have a revolutionary idea. Make the suitcase bigger. Give me more screen and more battery. No bigger suit.

My sixteen and macbook pro within m one road ship has a bigger battery life than establish eleven .

age smaller screen.

You tell me that it's just the pixel, but I can run in.

Well, IT runs web L, S, which is reason only three hours.

My favorite part of L G promotional images of this is that is too Young, very fashionable with people sitting by the pool. yes. And the guy is using the TV to skip the track on the world's largest music with you because it's twenty seven inches and size to just go the next track. And then and they didn't pay for any licensing. So the song is song title by artist name.

If you, by the way, this is what I was going to call out to perfect call out from. And if you're in your car, pull over. Now the link is in the showut.

Go look at this picture. When marketing agencies come up with briefs for products, they are like, here's what we want people to feel. Here's how we're going to execute IT.

I want to know what they wanted you to feel when they executed this photo, right? They had to do IT. They added.

They had to get some tables, had to get a lady with a book. They had to buy White land and clothes for this gentleman, he has a drink here. They put a lemon in IT.

They opened the suitcase. They were like they instructed him to be pointing at the next track button. And what looks like a clone of apple music, but is not apple music. All of that happened like a series of decisions happened with intent. And i'm just dying to know, like, I don't believe this TV is a touch screen.

I think IT is is a test in other points about this TV one you can rote any dederer so you can watch tiktok on IT well.

IT is a touching IT has a table .

mode and yes and then you could play chess on IT with the touch screen as they show in other photos.

It's got dolby vision. It's got dobe atmos with four speakers.

It's ten A D P dobe vision h.

It's going to be yeah like you're going to watch you're a half hour of a show because you probably forgot to charge IT. So even we got thirty minutes of time and you're going to watch you thirty minutes of the nani in dolby .

I vision and IT also has to be bright enough so you can actually see IT outside. So it's got to run like .

twelve hundred nets. IT has an outdoor picture mode, which acknowledges the fact that you are out in the world like just going to go down the road of like how are we marketing this thing? The idea that they are giving is you're going to bring this thing, you're going to put you in the trunk of your car, you're going to go, you're going to open up the trunk of your car, you're going to open up the suitcase. You're going, you're going to swim up the screen, turn IT on and you're going to put on, if a video of a quote, cozy crackling fireplace while you're out camping said.

not what you do when you can, but you didn't put the ipad out.

I know we could make a fire and you say, what do you mean i've already made a fire and you just told the screen up.

I just want to to point out, if you watched the video, if they are all sitting around an outdoor lining table and SHE opens the suitcase and opens the screen showing the fire.

and then makes you watch a youtube video.

all very good. Do you say I have made fire every time? It's amazing .

every single person staff wants to buy this TV.

I don't know. Only one thousand dollars.

That's the wrong way to think about money. Only one thousand. And many, like an iphone, is a thousand.

Every outdoor dinner party is just transformed with this thousand dollar device.

But if you preorder, you get a free x boom, three sixty speaker, which is two hundred fifty dollars. So really.

it's like the TV is free. Yeah, basically.

again, if you know what the intent of the man changes track on music player picture is just like, please let me know i'm just dying to know i'm also dying for the first person to take this as a Carry on on a plane and just put .

that out of the trade .

table just like say.

we'll never let you get on a plane with this thing they're going to look .

at this thing and do you for the .

longest time. I E.

all right. Then what's what's you're .

getting around? I'm going to plug myself. I reviewed the three galaxy tab s nine tablets today on the site. And i'm just going to say IT android tablets are interesting this year.

really.

Yeah, they're back.

baby. Finally.

android tablets, it's a year of andy tablet.

When you say they're back .

to do you mean .

that they are back in a way that is competitive with the ipad or back in the sense that someone is releasing them?

I would say that the they are a actually pretty interesting and good. This like the interesting part about IT is samsung has been releasing high and tb that have been pretty decent for a few years now, but have been only samsung. And now there's like actual competition within the android space.

You could buy a pixel tablet itor. You could buy a one plus tablet tor. You could buy uh, a novo o tablet itor.

Something like that, uh same still makes the best ones, but IT also makes like the most expensive ones. So there's like actual variety. It's there's different ideas happening.

There's different experimental. The software is got to a lot Better. Uh, there are actual ecosystems that have been built out. If you're samsung phone owner, IT makes a lot of sense to use a Samson tablet because IT works together in the way that an iphone and works with an ipad.

So it's then aren't you a samsung phone owner? I I use a samsung teller, use an ipad.

I would say that nobody should buy there. Purchase decisions based on my own personal .

device choices attracts .

because you will be entering regret.

I've seen dan news. Dex, I.

I use desk like, like, dex is, is, is fascinating and like surprisingly capable at this point. I used to be a heartbeat, but I think I I wrote this entire piece on dex, and I spent quite a few days actually working on decks to, like, test the tablets stuff in. It's, you know, pretty, pretty good.

Dex is good. Now I spent a decade going to meetings, the same sung being like, you know, dex exists, right? What if you do anything to IT? And they were like, mah, it's decks. It's like a thing we put in slides but no one actually uses and now they've like made IT into a thing you can actually like have multiple windows in a way that isn't bad on your tablet like what a concept .

IT feels like uh, stage manager, if you took all the bind herself off a stage manager and all the restrictions of a stage manager and you did the thing that you want to do with windows on a screen, that's what dexia.

okay. Just i'm just looking your scores, just i'm just evaluating and your tables back.

So you are a commenter on the website. Yes.

I am the people. So you gave the tab s nine and eight, which is prefer, although sixteen by ten is yeah .

that's my main complaint with the s nine is sixteen by .

ten is still little black. And then the S N. Ultra, which is the one that like, you know the youtube was just waved around tiktok and feel like and I got IT as I get leave that but you get that one of six because it's gigantic and ridiculous yeah in twelve hundred .

dollars it's more expensive than the suitcase TV .

too yeah that's what IT has a processor.

Yeah IT does any.

Outrageously Price .

and in the s nine plus, he gave a six. And this one just bluff. Like I mean, like looking at IT.

I feel like there's required to be one tablet in every lineup that just makes no sense. No one should buy IT.

Yeah yeah. You know the vacuum, the s line and plus is great. You know it's got a great screen, great performance. It's got all the benefits that the others have. It's just it's too big to like comfortable ly use for tablet stuff. And then it's like if you are going to buy IT for productivity just by the ultra because that gives you the space to really be productive in a way that the plus doesn't.

For two hundred dollars more, you can have the one that people go wow. And that's this product. Like you look at an s an ultra, you're like, holy shit, that that's a thing that exists.

You look at the s nine plus and you're like, well, i'm going to buy I like that that product. It's like this is the one that is the most head on with an ipad. The bozzle's are big.

I would say that the bessel are not that big.

This photo looks .

like maybe they looked photo, know what that is? It's because that photo is a photo of video in sixteen by nine. So it's making a look bigger. But if you look at the side, you can see the the vestals on the side.

there are not back. So if you watch anything, if you watch the vast majority of TV today, it'll look like IT has huge vessels.

Yeah because it's great on an ipad four, three movies. That's my favorite OK.

This is my defensive for three four. Three is that god shows an association for affordable computers are thord's savior for three. I've say sixty nine and sixteen ten screen are horrible.

Sixteen ten is the worst of all worlds, right? Because you watch a movie, still get the weird, like boxing, then you try to do any work or hold IT, god forbid, in portrait and you know, like, well, i'm just a guy with a rectangle never looking at me. And I pad like four, three years that you make one compromise on watching video, you make one compromise, and everything else is great. Sixty nine, you make one compromise which is useful for, which is that is useful for anything but watching video. My god, the thing is lorst see that good before.

It's a thing.

It's a platter. This is the older we have.

we have not spent out of the show, just we look the audiences grown and we've added a second episode. We're got to do an entire episode that just like there's one correct? No, you're wrong. The correct .

aspect ratio is three two on laptops. That's IT. There's no other good answer for three.

You just said the only compromise with four three is watching video, which is the main thing most people do all the time. It's like, remember when max were good, except the keyboards suck like that. Turns out keyboards are pretty .

important to samsung credit. These devices are phenomenal for watching video like the screens are tremendous, the sound is tremendous, like these are entertainment. It's just personally, if i'm going to spend twelve hundred dollars and device, i'm going to want to want to do more than just watching movie once a week or whatever on IT. And so like I do want .

to get more of IT. When do we get like a two point three nine .

aspect you so laptop .

had twenty one by nine.

I would feel like i'm watching a movie in the sixties of a like I wow.

I. You're not going to believe .

how why .

did so I .

are David was here. What's your pick? minds? quick. It's, uh, i've been following all this google S G, A. I search stuff for a while. And google this week in the in the guys of like relatively you know minor feature update rolled out a thing where you can now use S G E as you look at web pages and I will summarize them for you and you can like interact with web pages through google AI. And it's like that's not a small thing.

That's like an enormous leap in google making chrome like the A I hub of the internet, which is messy and weird and complicated investigating and they're also putting more A I stuff in the sidebar of chrome was like very quietly AI is coming like front and center to the entire web brushing experience through google and like you talk about kind of AI all the way down, like we're getting get to the point where google's AI is summarizing A I generated web pages that you found through google A I powered search. And it's just all going to get real, real, real weird. But google like being has been so loud about like we are putting being everywhere like google is being very quiet about IT but is basically doing the same .

thing yeah such the side bar stuff. The interesting thing about us right now is google featured snippets are still often superior to sg, like the A I will like over right know like a precocious seventh greater. And it's like not just the answer, the question I don't need, I was prem. I can't .

answer a question like if if a question has a simple answer IT can help you like explore the universe of out of your question but I can't just be like .

seven do that. This thing though, this news features words summarizing pages. There's something going on in the background, I don't know that is if you work your time so you is there's something going on in your times in google and open eye that I have not been able to piece out.

But if you look at near times, as were about start txt IT allows everything that allows google allow open out IT literally start dot whatever. Well, there's no very few things are blocked, which is fascinating. Um we got to actually a question for importer.

When open, I roll out its crawl that once you have a quality you can block IT. So just rolled out and someone asked us, hey, why do you block IT in? The reason is actually contained in a piece David read about eva which is the intern has been so fixed for so long that most places only allowed google in big, because being powered all the other search engines es for so long.

So you only needed to allow gool on being, and everything else was just cost, right? Like an infinite amount of crowd is coming over your pages as a server costs you need to pay because they are google and they're spain. So most publishers, most pages only about that. So open eye, now that they have a new crosser, they're got to go get permission from everyone. The times allows everything.

But then there is a proteus week that they might sue, open a ee because they are really mad tive and they want to deal and they have a deal school that no one is a terms of told me there's this thing that is happening with A I on the web. And all these features are quietly rolling out in the background of IT is like a nuclear explosion of lawsuits. IT is just coming.

It's going to be wild. And were talking at the code conference to over twenty six and twenty and seven, three and IT was good. I got there. They actually, my lightning, and ones are all A I two.

You'll notice that realized at once, because, unlike the rest of us, realized and capable of following the rules.

Well, it's two that are the same one. It's two that are the same thing. So open a eye, rolled out GPT four to two content moderation, which is terrifying. But everybody .

treated this like IT was a new thing. They were like, oh, they're going to have humans looking at the production of the algorithm and then they're going to feed IT back into the algorithm. What a novel concept and it's like that's how we has .

worked for ever yeah like facebook and youtube in particular have been like this is a problem and maybe A I can sound like do you think google has not been trying to do A I and contain moderation into be for agents they they even doing IT. That's a casey asked a bunch experts about IT in platformer read IT. The experts seem to really like this idea.

They think IT is faster. They think they can build some tools. Importantly, if they think a bunch of start up social networks can use tools like this, you don't either resources a microsoft, you don't either resources of a meta or goole or whatever.

There's something there. Importantly, if you go to europe and only in the places they have laws in the books. Now that said, you have to people explain your content moderation decisions, and it's not clear if GPT four can do that. So I can't they got to build that. I mean, yeah.

I like I can't yet. yeah.

Part of what they said they're doing as part of the process is asking the model to explain itself. And as we've seen, like the more recursive you get with these LLM, the weird and worse they all get. But uh but it's an interesting road to go on. And I can create like even if all this does is get everybody to like you can plug and play sea plus content moderation like that's already a huge win for the internet.

Are we going to a point where the content moderation, like where they asked the ChatGPT to explain itself and and we're going to have to talk about how I just claimed that he was. Like are you according that longs for death?

Like I don't know. Like I think we'll see. I mean, the flip side of this, what we're talking about, putting a robot in a position, this sensor content is an IOS school district.

Their book bans across this country. Now this is a real problem. They decided they weren't going to read the books.

They were just going to ask ChatGPT to summarize all the books and library and tell them which wants to ban, which is like a pure application of two tea. Like that is the lazy shit I have ever heard in my entire life. If you are going to ban books, don't right.

Like, first, second. Like, do, do the work. Be like we asked our robot to tell her books a bit. Like this is the the beginning of the use of the tool beyond just the cool down as you see, and textile, it's o lazy people are going to make stupid decisions with IT the impact, like lots of things.

This was I mean, this was also kind of a protest because they are being required. They have to go do at all themselves like they didn't they weren't given a list of books. They basically said you'll be like subjective.

And so if you don't put you together your list of books and have IT done by certain time. So that's why like they're really okay. We'll just do IT fast, then have ChatGPT do IT because you don't care about the kids. So why should we IT was kind of like my read of of why .

they were doing a protect chat. V T.

still not great. Still, like, still books getten banned and kids don't have access to important media. But like.

well, I got attention for us. So there is that. But I was say, this is the flip side of we wanted people to explain itself when you start making decisions, like will let the robot summarize the books so we can ban IT from our library.

You really need that robot to be able to explain itself. And so that's why I say it's two things that are kind of the same thing, like we're going to put IT in charge of speech on the internet. We should really be able to explain itself because people, once you start saying this is an acceptable thing to do with that, we we're going to use IT and truly is our ways.

Last two things, we mentioned this briefly at the top of the show, the special council jacket neth has obtained trumps dms from twitter. We won't go into IT except to say this is why we are constantly banging on about encryption. And if this brings our two parties into alignment on the need for ending encryption on our platforms, i'll take IT because that's why you have IT.

Also, your twitter dms have never been deleted. They just get hidden when you hit, delete, use encysted platforms people and to use them don't team people want to put her right last one. Cranes as a microsoft of that and you .

are coming up yeah september twenty first, we're going to get a microsoft event. Sounds like we'll probably get some surfaces because they frequently do one. And like september, october, there's usually big surface event.

So sounds like get some of that. Who knows what else? Microsoft, very busy this year. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see other stuff.

But who can say I believe there are gonna talk a about A I would be my guess yeah, if I had to just kind of wildly stab in the dark. I think it's possible that the word copilot will be mentioned when you .

turn on the new surface. It's like, have you broken up with your wife yet?

I'm here for you. Yeah.

he is my shooting. I A cook conference, the temple twenty six seven mico CT. Scott jack, I september.

by the way, is going to be nuts, is going to be an apple event the second week, september, there's going to be an amazon event on the twenty. This is going to be on the two twenty first code is then uh, met a connect I believe is the end of september like it's it's going to be full crazy in back for all the verge cast listeners who are like, oh, talk about more gadgets oh, it's coming. IT is coming.

Yeah, these August verge as just like, here's a grab bag, a cool stuff to talk no, no dead focus. Yeah, it's coming. Ready for don't worry with h everyone. Go get some rest to pull over in your car. Taken APP by the side of the road and get ready .

for of the put the fire on your success .

TV and take a we know about David, that new news called to tell people about that yeah.

it's basically just designed to point people's towards all the cool things that exist on the internet. Um we've put up one issue so far, the second once coming out this weekend, it's been really fun. Uh, a lot of people get really mad, which I assume is a sign that it's it's fun and interesting and things are going well.

We're changing everyone to stuff, learning new things all the time. Uh, the version that comes slash installer and also send me all the cool things. The best thing about this news letter has been that everybody now takes me and funny things on the internet and I love you very much.

Go subscribing thought IT is very fun. I will say I will not apologize for not deleting two factor notifications. The number of people are like, why of all these in red? And like, they're like, five year two fashion. I typed in the code already and now I go delete and like i'm not using my time that way you come from the house and blow an hour deleting old notifications. I was seventeen.

It's here to save. You need them, will delete them automatically.

Be beautiful. I cannot wait. Have the number of emails I get where on my gip I saw that subject line and I refuse to take if the phone just read my mind that it's like your order is ready is not a thing that .

I need to take any further .

action on superman lasers .

and that's what humans .

are gonna to work. You just tell your hand like I got IT delete .

all the bad email, right?

That's that's of her chest sentience photos of your computer rooms from dying to the good ones, not your modern garbage ones. They're pride. Great in a couple of weeks to ask for those two yeah, but i'm looking ferd. You know that the tone of wood that was sold in the office mac that I want that all right, we love you. That's a very chest back.

And that's a right for verge cast this week. We'd love to hear from you. Should does an email at verge cast at the verge dot verge casts as a production of the verge and the box media podcast network, the shows produced by me, liam James, and our senior audio director, Andrew marino, our editorial director, is proof meters. That's IT. We'll see next week.

Support for this episode de comes from A W S. A W S, generate A, A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the .

world's most experienced cloud. Support for the show comes from a new york magazines. The strategist, the strategist helps people who want to shop the internet smartly. Its editors are reporters, testers and obsessives. You can think of them as your shop holic friends who Carry equally about function, value, innovation and taste.

And their new feature that gives out, takes the best of their reporting and recommendations and uses that to surface, gives for the most hard to shop. For a people on your list, all you have to do is type in the description of that person like you are a parent who's they don't want anything, or your brother in love, who's in a tech junkie, or your niece with a sweet tooth. And the gift Scott was scan through all of the products they run about and come up with some relevant suggestions. The more specific you make your request, the Better even down to the age range. Every single product you'll receive is something they write about so you can be confident that your gift has a strategist sill of approval, visit the strategist outcome, slash gifts out to try IT out yourself.