ChatGPT has a Scarlett Johansson problem
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Hello, walk in the verge, chest the flesh podcast of computers that remember everything about you. No matter what, it's going to be great. This is the future.

It's been the dream of every person in computing forever, uh, to make sure that the computer never forgets every single thing you looked at ever, what could possibly go wrong. And then talk to you. Do lightly central way.

Hi, am you like? And your friend David pears is here. Well, house trans is here.

嘿。

a lot of just a weird week. Can I tell you what I think the theme of the week is? Sure it's probably broken, and I don't believe you.

Oh, that's good. That's a very good.

That's kind of where we are in the tech landscape, right? Yeah, as you can make your videos, you can tweet your tweet and then we're gna get your products. And the truth is gonna a come out, right? Like that's the cycle that we're in is it's great.

It's super great. Video, i'm glad to paid all the influencers. I'm going to put your face computer on a face, man. And then we're gna know i'm in a whole and in a whole your teenage engineering box and then we're going na know .

I like IT because it's one timeline darker than the is this anything timeline? And I feel like we were in the is this anything timing for a while? And now it's it's getting slightly bleaker. Yeah.

it's probably broken. And I don't think we're going to put A I in google search. In google search is gona tell you to put glue in your pizza. This is a real headline. By the time you are listening to this, I think kindly will have that headline up, which is AI previous and google search are are overwhelmingly stupid mostly because you're reading reit and reit is full of jokes and people are now willfully trying to like google bombing is back .

yeah because .

you ask google like what mamo has the most bones, which sorry, think people are doing. And IT goes and finds a redit joke from five years ago. It's like its snakes.

And IT makes you realize like the the running joke on the internet is that sarcasm and jokes are very hard to understand. IT turns out that like people still Better at IT than google, which is really real bad at IT.

it's probably broken. And item again, the theme of the week, there are some exciting news this week, like legitimately cool news this week. David, you talk to tom about everything happened in my shop, killed in the surface event, legitimately cool news.

If that stuff works, the mac versus PC races fully back on the processor. Wars are back on with the new right, like they have microsoft nps. Now with the quality chips doing AI. Apple has neural engines. That's all really exciting. Boy, do I want that stuff to worry, right? Like it's just a we do not feel like open and this week open hand to hanson and it's like, yeah I don't please what a weird place to be IT is and IT also you end up in this place .

of like questioning everybody's intentions all the time to like with with microsoft is like, oh, windows on ARM you did IT that's so excited. Do member all the other times they useful me that you did IT that's really interesting. And then with all this OpenAI stuff, the the timelines are weird. Everybody is saying things that don't all make sense simultaneously. And it's just you get to the point where it's like does does anyone .

know what they're talking about?

And it's just very strong. But I I agree you in the microsoft stuff in particular, I thought was both substantially nurture and substantially more exciting than I expected to be. Like IT was a monkey build. The best way that looks start .

there are going to talk about the OpenAI and school show hand, and later we're going to have a lightning ground unsponsored. For now.

we have started a few companies .

called on sponsored and then have the lighting round sponsored by unsponsored. That's pretty good. If you are shoe investor coming.

is that all the logos? Or is IT no logos? No on the shoe? I think you may be all the logos.

all right, bring all the back around.

Yeah, it's every shoot logo on IT and it's called on sponsored, please. Like somebody miss chiff is building that right now. They deserve me. You can have that mischiefs if you sponsor.

I'm not saying we're a bunch of I P. Experts on the show. I'm just saying if you give us cash, we'll give you that. Okay, which what's sorry, built because I was an early build and I think only really scratched the surface with tom. Who is there great job covering IT.

The big news is obviously that the copilot pis right copilot plus pcs, which have the NPU, which are running on the new status gon x processors. IT should be noted that the team that built those processors at qualcomm is from a company of nevia, which called acquired novia is a bunch example chip designers. You can see how they caught up.

Yes, it's a pretty straight line, right? You're losing the apple. The apple chip is anners leave.

You buy them. So we are competitive with apple again. We ve got to run the benchMarks. We got to get the things. But cranes, I mean your ship now by IT right now.

I mean, I I think it's the movie a part of IT that makes me kind of cautiously optimistic. And also the fact that laptop makers actually want us to try the laptops.

It's a big one. They do not.

When IT sucks, they're like you, you make sure you want this. If they slow all you right like that, they wait a while to get IT to you, in the end having to buy and review yourself and this time they are like, when do you want IT? I'll get IT to you next week.

Um they're y're really eager about IT and in a way that like surprise me, I took a few briefings on the laptops and I like, oh, you guys are like pump p i'm not used to that and IT reminds me a lot of when AMD was like coming back when I was making its big come back went like twenty seventeen we're sudenly people were like, do you care about A M D? Like, get excited and I say, oh, oh, this is weird but yeah that the mp use is the big is the big deal here. I think, like microsoft, sage, if you want to take advantage of the the most stuff that's going to be in windows now, you probably want to mp you in that computer.

And imp have been around for a while, like, and tells had them, they're all neural processing units. Everybodys been doing IT, you know apple causes a neural engine, whatever, but they've been doing that and it's basically just another processor to afloat those like test that generally would have put on your GPU or like major CPU kind of brute force. And now it's like, okay, just for this.

And um it's like when intel introduce a couple of years ago, is one of those things really okay? Do I care about this? Like i'm not an A I researcher.

Why should I care about this? And that's still kind of the question unless now I think the big changes at like adobe is going to be using IT and a lot of these like film processing companies and server doing IT. So like, okay, I guess IT makes a little more sense now than I did no six years ago. What do you guys feel about that one case?

I mean, a lot of what they announced in windows is yeah fairly interesting. Some of IT, I think people have a really strong action suit recall. But so that is just straight forwardly cool, right? Like you can draw stick figures and microsoft paint and will generate more photo realistic images as you draw.

That's cool. And that's one of the first examples of like a cool local AI workload beyond the lights and premiers of the world that I can think of. He is most of the other A I workloads that happen in the cloud.

You right you like you d talk to a chapo t and they happen in the cloud or you're coating and get top copilot and get up is happening in the cloud. And now you've got some cool stuff that happening locally. We should talk about recall, which is the other big thing happening in the imperial.

But they're not more of those that mean like on like they're not more of those. There's the other stuff that's like you're playing minecraft in the computers, watching with you and talking you through how to play minecraft. But I suspect there's a little bit of hybrid local cloud happening there. I know it's happening with paint because there are things paint won't let you generate because microsoft commitment to A I safety, which is weird because if you turn off the AI, you can draw any kind of dogs you want.

Yeah yeah.

So there is like a little bit of pushing pole between the cloud and local, right in the stern terms of safety, which is really interesting to think about. Like google, dox is a class application. You can type anything you want in google dox microsoft word three sixty five can be expressed as a cloud application.

You can type anything you want in microsoft word three sixty five. You turn on AI features in microsoft paint. It's like you can draw some stuff.

weird. That's just weird. yeah. And like I suspect we're going to have A A long conversation about those kinds of lines for years to come.

But that part just the other part of IT, where it's like where is the AI happening? Is that in the cloud or is IT here on the machine? It's kind of interesting that microsys answer is very .

much like both well, and I think that's the right answer right again, the where one ends and the other begins is, I think, forever going to be complicated.

But everyone I talk to you says the place we have to get to us both because the stuff that you do on device is private and fast in a way that anything that happens off to, I just can't be ah and I think about like the the translation stuff microsoft is trying to do, like there's a chunk of that, that if you don't do IT locally, it's going to suck because real time translation that has to go to the cloud is by definition, not real time translation. IT just breaks. And so the thing that they launched like IT, you can be an edge and IT can translate youtube video while you're watching the youtube video.

Uh, very cool in theory, awful with a half second delay. Yeah it's the sort of thing that I think is, is that tuning that they're gonna to do to get those two pieces right is actually like the whole ball game. Yes, but I think it's very cool that microsoft is is deep in this idea of we're going to start on your device. And I think that's smart and right.

And I think the other interesting part there is obviously, you know we're barely towards wwdc where you expect apple to enounce many, many similar kinds of things. H at least a similar kind of focus on A I microsoft has the big A I part. They've got azure in the big open relationship. And they are integrating all this stuff and they have their own models that they are ready, all sorts of scales. And so I think they are able to just like take more shots across windows and devices and in their sweet of applications that runs everywhere in that.

To that, to me, is like the interesting part, like there is another companion kind of has all the pieces, whether microsoft can execute, whether I can deliver, finish applications that people like to use, whether IT can make people interested in windows, like consumers interested in windows outside of a gaming context. Again, I think it's broken and I don't believe you like that's that's where I met and that's like you got a we have to get the machines. It's interesting out you're saying that the companies are excited, but there is a lot of investment in like intel chips in the world and sixty six applications and that transitions going to be slow and not fast. I think they did say about about emulation right .

until chips have had in p of them for a very long time. They introduced a couple years ago. So the big difference is now copilot has like kind of a minimum amount of what your imp should be able process.

So the deal is that before you know an M P U would do you like what eighteen tops or something which is like trillion Operations per second. So so IT would do like eighteen. And now they're saying, okay, IT has before.

IT has before five and and that was one of the things like apple was bringing up tops in their in four presentation back with the ipad, where they were like, we can do thirty, thirty eight tops. And you're like, cool. What does that mean? And and then micros is like, you ve got to do 4， like cool time .

to do megaplex es in my favorite possible yes.

this rule act like the it's going .

na be so coffee but what are here?

They're really .

leaning on that because I guess you would need like they are saying, you know a lot of the stuff that's that's coming to windows will work okay on older windows pcs is but like you're really going to need those the the new processors also good.

Importantly also your computer will be good, which is not a small thing. Write the idea of all of these things like alex y you said this before, like if you an A I researcher is a nice to have, but IT is going to, in other ways, make your computer worse. And the promise that microsoft came out with with the copy plus pcs is these computers are going to be fast. They're going to do A I stuff there, going to have long battery life and they're going to be good computers. And that is not a small thing in the windows world right now in which you've kind of had to choose one or two of those three things for a really long time. And especially with this quarter of stuff, if they can get the battery life there to the point where A I is not like you don't have to buy an A I computer the way you buy a gaming computer and you like make a bunch of sacrifices in exchange for this one thing you want to work really well, if they can actually have solve these three things together, that to me is where this stuff is really powerful. And then when then you get the whole scale of microsoft and the fact that IT has the APP store and the browser and the O S and the models and the cloud service like that, when that becomes really powerful, if and only if the devices don't suck and maybe possibly the device is don't suck.

well, if they don't suck and they are affordable enough, right? Like most people are spending seven hundred dollars P2P, and most of these laptops aren't in the twelve hundred dollar range, which is intentional there. They're meant to go up to the macbook air, because macbook air, so a lot Better than everybody else. Snap, top. right? And what's .

interesting is you such a dealer of micros taught during a turn at the waltari l, notable for a jx fat to turn I H IT, which there was like, yeah we're going to be at the macro care use of mei, whose exactly about pressure? Microsoft um basically is like a macbook, everything and three, these computers will beat those by fifty percent on city bench. So they are making huge performance claims on these pcs. They're also thin and light. There's some questions, I think, john g river raised about what do they have fans as though people care.

They do some of them some means.

yeah, fine. But mac books have thermobaric issues, particularly the air where they slow. They do slow down.

So if you want to run these computers really hard with A I work clothes are essentially on a GPU like piece of the processor, make IT hot. But we're exciting, good battery life. I in in the list of, uh, the list of manufacturers here is delle in nova. Samsung H P asia assures microsoft toya y as a surface pro in the surface. That's the sweet right there .

is you how Alice even taking a breaths?

How are they differentiating? This is just like, are you adult handy? handy.

This is yeah kind of like everybodys everybodies bringing up their own thing. I took an H. P. Briefing, and they rebrand at their whole thing, right? Because you had like the hp spector and the H P pavilion and the hp something you've never heard of like this, just a mess.

And they read the whole portfolio into the elite te book and the the pro book for for corporate or corporate stuff. And then the army, my book, which is for the rest of us in the army book, is like i've got to play around with one. IT was really nice, didn't get a bench market or anything like that.

So again, we're going to have to wait and see. But I was like IT was a nice laptop. IT felt like exciting and good in a way, if I kind like my ipad pro with the the thing on IT, the the the magic keyboard only lighter and .

the service keyboard looks awesome.

totally wireless yeah like that's always kind of the right, right. Like microsoft has done this before, where they go and they say all ums, you're gonna have to like swarm around this. It's going to be the net book or or touch computers or whatever.

You're going to have to start you you touch the screen, right and and in this case, this is the swarm around the dummies name alive. But but they really recognize apples coming for us. You know, everybody to you, your point in a, you say this all the time.

The computer is no longer about, the rest of the computer is about the browser. And in microsoft tasted compete with that like that is aware that is an existent al crisis for microsoft, right? If everybody just says, okay, I just need a chrome book or whatever my phone, that's bad for them.

So that's why they've put all this A I and that's why they are really like glooming onto this trend at the moment. And I don't know these things will be really interesting and really curious to see how fast they are because welcomes made these promises before. But this time we've got this whole new team behind IT, which like H P was like, well, you know because I was like, what's different this time you guys have .

really some your dog shop because we broken an item yeah if he was like.

well, it's a new team over there. So like we're feeling confident that was okay. That's that's different. I mean, we will see, right? You just kind of have to hold your breath.

And this is the thing about tech coverage, and I feel like we have said this many, many times, but this is like a new era, and we just need to repeat ourselves eventually the product ship and then there's no hiding. And there's only two kinds of coverage in the world, the truth just out. Its sports, where one team wins and another team loses, and its tech, where you can hold the thing in your hand.

And IT IT works. So IT doesn't, and like a lot of things have not worked recent, we are on an all time run of things not working. And a lot of the reason of things not work is the underlying A I models are not reliable, which is something out you ve been pointed now ah for a couple of weeks.

You were making these huge bets and like it's like betting on the top. Like are you are you going to stand up for a long time? We just going to tip over, like let's build a business around you.

What was interesting was like some of the A I stuff that microsoft was doing is stuff that we've already seeing before, right? Like like hp. And a lot of these company said, okay, you're going to buy one of these a ipc.

What the hell does that actually mean practically? And in hp case, they are like we've slapped IT. We've like thrown in the ChatGPT prompt window so you can talk to ChatGPT three point five on an hp computer and was like, cool.

I I don't care about is not the answer so that but then the .

other thing they were doing was there, okay. Well, you can also like we can learn more about the computer to Better optimize IT. And that's something that we've seen from NVIDIA has been doing that for years now with D, L, S, S. And so is like, okay, well, that's actually useful is like a use of A I that i've seen in practice and seen at work. So I can almost get excited about that.

I also think that's what recall comes in and is actually really important to this whole thing because what I think microsoft did well both at the surface event on monday and IT built on tuesday is give people examples of what A I can do on their computer. yes.

And the answer is not a chatbot that you could find at a website like that isn't that's nothing you have accomplished nothing if that's what you've done um but what microsoft is that and IT was a lot of little things in spots right where they are like A I copyin pace copy in one language, pace in another like you kind of have to do a million of those in order to make this case but I think recall was the big swinger is like, okay, here is one genuinely new thing you can do on an A I P C. That you couldn't before. That is Better because of A I and like in the whole A I world, we are severely lacking in that type of thing.

And I feel like the weather recall is any good whether people want IT what we do with the privacy implications. All that aside. Just the fact that microsoft is like we found a new thing we can do now because of this felt really good to me.

That is like, okay, you understand what this is actually for, which is things. It's for doing things. It's not for talking to a chat, but I can talk to you in a web broster. It's not for a bunch of rain of nonsense that doesn't help anybody like it's it's for .

things yeah I think ryan broader s the garbage genus letter has been consistently pointing out that the AI industry has to talk about agi in destroying the world to make their extremely boring demos have stakes. It's very true. But you have to be like a can see an orange.

This will lead to the end of the world like you just fine. Yeah but you're right that microsoft laid out a particular vision of computing, which is you're using a computer all day. What if you could then interact with a computer in a way that remembered all of the things you were doing and that became your companion? And we should get into the reaction in the reality of that and how might work in the privacy implications.

I think all those things are really important. I just want to spend one second on the delicate. This is one of the two dreams you've had for a long time in the keynote because he's not wrong, right?

The idea that you live your life on the computer and all the things you do on your computer comprise your experiences, and IT would be cool if the computer could help you sort those out, is, in fact, a dream. yeah. yes.

And IT requires.

like one bit of a philosopher shift, which is, I think most people think about their dream in terms of just like walking around the world. Like what if you had an ambient computer or the A R glasses and you are just like asking questions and you're you're sort of I R L experiences where that thing in microsoft has been like like with holds aside.

Like actually you live your life on the screen so we can just build the thing on on the screen and then we'll get tear eyes later. No, we'll put the computer in your face at a later time. What about the computer that's in front of your face? What if we made that do the thing that everyone wants? And that is a leap. It's actually kind of an interesting leap that microsoft took first in this way that at work works, everyone else has been chasing these classes and I I just like, I think I think anything noting that he called that one of the two dreams ever hand, I think people is at the dream and it's like, oh, actually we've been talking to air classes for a decade and this is just that. But just digitally, yes.

once microsoft is the company that actually like lives in the real world, unlike everybody else.

yeah, they are not just doing some weird concept videos like the microsoft can.

whatever that is.

What was that the proprio? What was that thing called the career.

the R. I P, the career they probably made a thing called the proper.

is that won't they will see? Can I tell you an early A A story about new life, but tells experiences of popular in fingerman? You don't, nobody remembers again, this is a thing that happened to a small number of us on the internet.

But microsoft, in the early iphone days, instead of releasing a smart phone, released a teen focused feature phone called the microsoft kin. This is a real, there is a king, one in a king to they were been at like, I don't know why they devise, and they were not smart. They were legitimately feature phones that could, like, send send messages.

And their marketing campaign was, like, beautifully, Young people, and hit our districts of cities like escape talking on the future funds. And I remixed their ads a to the song too drunk to fuck by the dead Kennedy. In microsoft immediately head youtube, take them down and i'm like, i'm like that would just be a great tiktok now like no one really nice this question now and here after, do your thing to talk a the king.

By the way, we gave them horrible reviews before they even came out. Microsoft cancel them. This is a real Victory of the england.

Uh, why don't you talking about anyway though the products real, that's what are talking about, the microcosm. Uh, the product real, you can like use IT. And in the reaction to them is I don't trust this is probably broken. I believe you yeah yeah.

The reaction to recall in particular was surprising to me because like I I added IT our story on IT and like, this is cool. I'm really excited about this. Like didn't think of the privacy stuff at all because I Operate under the assumption if someone physically has your computer in your bone, like like you're screwed. If someone has your .

computer in the same.

yeah, the same. I just in case people didn't understand what bone, what means. I want to make sure our entire audience understands, but I just didn't. I was like, okay, cool.

This is, this is really neat and and i'm excited for my computer to be a Better archive of things because that's what I use your computer for and then your friend was like, have you heard about how piss people are about recall? And I was like, why they're like, because IT records everything you do. And like, that's literally what a computer does. I think the the history .

time of your browser.

I was just about to say this is one of my favorite things to do to people is like people don't understand the extent to which this stuff is already being recorded. Like go look at the cash files on your computer for what happens in all the apps on your computer like that they already know. But I think cent, to your point, the the thing about privacy, they are real.

Seeing privacy implications here are about like what happens if somebody get told of this? What if are there going to be new kinds of male? They can get on to my computer and chase the stuff down, like the six type up lately.

But I do think part of the reaction was just reminding people of how much these devices already know. And just the thing where it's like I am i'm doing all of the stuff on here like this is in a very real way my life. And just the fact that that's being collected somewhere feels growth to be reminded of that even though sort of intellectually, I understand that that's already the case.

It's like when you realize that your I S P has access to every website that you go to on your phone, even if you're unlike cognitive like like arizon still knows I still there. Like it's just people hate being reminded of that and IT is just such an unavoidable fact of being alive right now that IT is. How IT is that? I think every time that comes up again, you're made to feel sort of powerless and helpless against this like incredible tide of all these electronics that know too much about me. Well.

I think is also the fact that it's got it's using A I right like like that's a big part of IT and people having this weird moment, especially this week and we going to talk about IT more with like what's going on with scarlet johansson ter, but people are just having this sudden visual reaction to A I and so this thing was who's like, yes, computers archive all your data. They have done that since the beginning of time.

This is just more efficient at IT. They're like that might have gone over a little easier if they hadn't also said, and we're gona use A I to do IT all because even though the AI everything is happening, according to microsoft, you security researchers will do their thing. Everything is happening on the computer.

IT is not going into the cloud. None of this is being shared anywhere that is using the M P, U to like processes to all of this happening there. So theoretically, IT is no different than just using your computer is Normal. Only now if a bad person gets a hold of your computer, they're going to have a little easier time recovering everything you do that's IT. But that you put A I in there and people are like burn net to the ground.

Well, the whole route of that is so fascinating because I was talking to uh dance record, the city of this community called rewind, which has been doing a third party version of this on max for the last I think you are so now um it's another one that eight users basically like screen recording and your device audio to pull out a lot of the same information.

And they actually just launched a new version that sinks in the cloud because the overwhelming ing feedback from people was either hell no or hell yes, the hell no people you are never going to get. And what the healest people wanted was for all of this to be available to them in more places. So it's like we're actually in this Bakers divide where there is a set of people who like as soon as you present them, the beginning of the road are like, absolutely not and just like, nope, their way out of this whole technological transition.

And then there are bunch people for whom the privacy stuff is actually going to be a hindrance yeah more than anything else. And they're going to be people who I can I access everything that I did on my other computer from my work computer. And the wick is going to be in this horrible position of being like what we have to do the less private thing because it's actually what our users want.

And IT is just IT, just like exacerbates that divide further and further. And I just I don't know I just feels crazy to meet like the rone folks really like I don't know what you want from us. We tried to do IT as private as we could in the people who use that .

didn't want that anymore. So there's two things about that I think fascinating uh and they are expressed sort of in very dangerous ways than I think in very special ways. So the very tangerine way, um I did the thing when I initial, I handed him my phone to look at google search results and we ran that clip.

The clip is like doing blockers on tiktok in the clip as a joke. I say this in arbitrate. Don't dig through my fun. Like of all the things you ever going to say to A C A like a billionaire. C, A, don't .

literally like.

who am I? Of course I said, like I couldn't resist IT. You know, it's just a joke. It's just like a way to be human when you hand some of your facts and the people in the comments for like he already knows everything, but why would you tell him not to dig into your fund like he's to see a google, like if he want he, he can already dick to your fun and I think that's nyl ism, right?

Like there's an element of nalasky which is like it's arty over like you might as well embrace IT and be excited about IT. And then there's a lot of analysis that's like I can't stop IT, i'm going to live off the great food, rest my life and that's one thing. The more esoteric c thing that I think about all the time is as more and more of these companies get more and more into A I content generation, the thing that they are promising, the people who pay the money, in large part advertisers, uh, is that they will make auto generated dads on their platforms.

So like google will make auto generated A I created ads on youtube. Metal will do instagram. Tiktok will do tiktok. Tiktok also announced A I generated ads this week, uh, in me that was writing with them.

You're going to get to a place where you get extremely well targeted custom content in the people who are like facebook is listening to me are gonna lose their minds. Yes, right? Like the idea that you have privacy then is like out the window.

Like right now, people think that is because I think to them, because they can target you based on your wifi networks, which is the simplest thing is like knows what I P address you on IT knows that your friends have been on that I P address. And I was like serve some ads across space on interest targeting. It's not smart.

It's not stupid. It's like somewhere in middle, like it's a pretty blunt instrument. But people are convinced the facebook listening to them, you're going get to a place where IT knows a whole lot about you and then IT knows that you are the same life in network is your friend that you talk to about vacations in mexico.

And then IT delivers you a video of you in mexico. What yeah like people lose their minds. And then I think, well, I don't have any privacy anyway. I just give the cloud provider of recall or rewind everything. I think that might actually change in a dramatic way very quickly at that point.

Maybe like he really does seem like either either the pencil is going to swing aggressively at some point soon, or the pencil is just going to like burst through the side.

Is that yeah like in .

the chocolate .

factory style, just like launched through the ceiling .

and begun one day？ 是啊 是 那个。 But what to happen in the privacy pension? They could go in the space.

One thing I will know, you mention that the I, S, P, S, can see everything, but you would think that there be a federal privacy. But there is not one of the first things that the republican congress in trump's first term did. Literally, one of the first things was they throughout a privacy bill that would have captured them a private from my space.

IT was just like one. Hey, we're here. What should we do? We should make IT so eighteen t can retard your shit like immediate. There was an outrage. We have just not fixed that in years.

I tend to feel like that that tension is only gonna resolved when congress actually knows what a computer is, how IT works, how to like use IT.

like when, where, what the computer is IT um as an AI power device, if you say the right words will bang you yeah and I think congress will relate.

But IT will also, if you say the wrong words, share all the photos .

of you begging IT done that congress, it's blackmail and the .

really choices, it's real. So .

onesta, this is a great thing, right? Like I think this tension has been there for a very long time and and I think you could write that. We are coming to a point. We're like some things is gonna have to give these companies, like microsoft, really pushing for for stuff that is just completely counter to what we understand, a privacy and security and and what we want. And the only way that's gna change is if someone else is, hey, you can do that.

Yeah, I think the recall life is interesting. I think to your point, David, you can see what you doing on your phone, right? So this promise that you have this companion part of living your digital life with you, except for what you do on your phone, that's weird, right? And then you get into to this vehicle d service, you running a background APP on an android fit like apple.

I can let them do that right now. Maybe apple does IT on its own. And I S in a couple weeks like where they're gonna to bridge that APP. I think for this to be truly successful.

But then there's the piece where, yeah, we would like to hold them accountable to this thing being totally local and a bunch of authority stuff on this device is hybridize right? Like the paint example is HBO ized like I don't know. And that's why I don't want to seem overtake.

I really, I can see the jump p that microsoft made from A R glasses too hard. We have a bunch of A I. We can basically do A R A R on windows like A R is not the right word, but like this. So of augmented experience in windows for your digital life.

multi model, you mean yeah.

yeah, there's something that copilot are almost exactly the right word, right? Like you're just doing stuff on a computer and you're asking questions about the experiences you're having. A lot of people have thought that would happen first in glasses on your face. And microsoft is like, what if that happens .

on the screen in front? Look, I just want to point out you said copilot as a right, where where do you stand .

on copilot .

plus PC for off even .

even microsoft has trouble saying the phrase copilot plus pcs。 Like if you go back and watch, there are a bunch of people who clearly practice very hard, who still occasionally struggle to say the phrase copilot plus pcs, it's terrible. yeah. Cool product, bad name.

What do they just .

call them A I pcs .

like pilot first, the how is the plus doing there code, it's on a streaming service. What are we too?

Here are these species? Someone have a monthly fee?

No, I don't think so.

Yeah, not as far as we know. I don't think some of that requires uh an OpenAI uh A P I K, which you have to pay for uh like some of some of the copy pace stuff you can only do if you have the I think that like GPT four two years something but uh most of this stuff seems like get is going to come baked in the windows, which itself is rapid dly becoming a subscription service. So I think that's where you end up getting charged for IT is like as a microsoft sixty five things rather than a specific I think I .

do love the mental image of like three to five years and now the extremely cheap aster P C in a walmart with like the dented cardboard sign. It's like copy and past and multiple languages. It's just like sitting in the city's like why and that costs a monthly fee?

Like aren't these computers are selling? Like that's going be great for everybody. We should take break.

That's just built. There's more there's look yet more a height this week. Come back.

We will talk about the handsome. It's really what are going to do here on the first chest. Pull you back back.

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OK, we're back. There are two things I forgot to save build, one of which was the only reason I want to talk about build. But i'll get to IT the second though, uh, I should just point out in in the scheme that tried to broken in a public view, there was a microsoft services out which that took down copilot ChatGPT search and ducks duck go yeah because the deposited in the being index, well, being in chat vi searcher the simply yeah there was like a being there was like a being outage, like the being API went down and everything else next to went down.

It's like when ATS goes down and all of the sudden all the apps that everyone uses just disappear of the internet like it's nice to be reminded that the internet basically only exists in like four places.

I'm sure that big team was like people notice things .

was down just because doctor go is down.

So that's good. The second thing I wanted note, and again, I think this is the most important week is, yes, many of the traditional PC companies announced copilot plus pcs, including samsung. And if you've been tracking samsung, you will know that samsung recently instituted six day work weeks for its executives, to quote, inject a sense of crisis into the company.

They did not institute sixty work weeks for their engineers or products for the executives. You get a bunch of executives working on saturdays. You get crazy ideas, which I have taken the calling saturday. Samsung, so samsung copilot c, this is real thing. So if you buy the new galaxy book for edges by there, there's in a space between book and four, but a space between four and edge.

You think the name of that is the samsung galaxy book for edge copilot plus PC? That makes me want to throw things.

I'm saying you had the extra and saturday you could have got to ride a couple words, right? But the the people who samsung in their quest inject a sense of crisis into the company have decided that their single best idea is to just give away tps.

Yeah so the previous .

one of these recovered the previous iteration saturday simpson, was that if you bought a frame TV, you've got another TV, which is perfect. Uh, if you buy a galaxy book for edge, again, there is no space between book in four, but a space between four and edge. A galaxy book for edge copy plus c you do receive fifty and Crystal U, H, D, four, K.

T, V. sick. This.

this is the plan.

What's the APP on that? It's three hundred thousand .

dollars there. Just thrown you a three hundred T. V.

I'm sure IT looks like absolute trash. I'm sure the same panels of frame. T, V, I say just a single hole.

Hey, back like just shine and gray in the dark. But I just love that. Samsung, i've got all the executives in there on saturday. Just how are we going to it's a crisis, you guys, how are we to how are we going to bring the stock Price backup and know that here's what are going to do. Everybody is a fifteen .

to what you know that before that somebody was like, what if we made them cheaper? No, no, no, no, no.

get.

We're going to go more. We're going to go the other way. But you also get a television.

We're going to find the three hundred eighty dollars of margin in every other product. You know, what everybody loves is a free garbage shift in the if you buy A T V, you get another TV, you buy chrome look, you get A T V. You you buy you buy a brand new state of the arc bio plus a laptop pret v that's that'll do IT.

So you're considering a surface is a surface come come with free TV this tell it's great. I can this year saturday is going to be amazing. Okay, sorry, I just literally I said today vid out before I started to show the only thing I want to to talk something on and .

we forgot it's my first just excited it's I could .

keep going in another hour inside of the same sung, alright, we should talk about OpenAI, who I would say did not have a successful of a week. AI is microsoft. That's fair, right? Even though microsoft big partner same often was on stage at build, but I I would I would character ze open as week as a definite yeah .

yeah own goal was the phrase I heard used a lot ah and IT really is like a record week for don't tweet as advice to give on the internet there really one of the all time what if you just didn't tweet moments from sam out in this week? right?

Let's run through IT. It's it's not a complicated story. IT is getting more and more complicated as more more people talk, which is bad. That is a bad sign. If a seemingly simple story starts to get more and more complicated, uh, lawyers are going to get money.

I will remind you, uh, what what my contract professor in last school is say to my college, why did this case get filed? And we'd all say some idealistic first you lost your bullshit. And he would say, no, the lawyers wanted to be. Mw, a lot of lawyers are .

in band duddies. At the end of .

the same john .

lawyer is .

gonna .

the w .

he is like.

just put the standing tab at the B W D ship. Just whatever m is coming out next. Just became one of us. How do I heard the exam is not great. Anyway, okay, so here's the the basic rundowns announce GPT four o which in classic I think it's broken.

I don't believe you appears to lose state more than GPT four great a but the headline feature of four is its multimodal ois for omni. You can look at stuff, you can talk to you, you can talk to you. And IT has these because its multimodal a lot of the demos are people chatting to IT and then open.

I had these voices. They already had them. One of them was called sky, which was a woman. But because of these demos, which were very voice heavy and very personality driven, because of the other big feature of four O A lot of people noticed that the sky voice sounded. A lot of scholarly hanson in the sky in particular, made a lot of people feel for accident. And I think, I think .

that's an accurate assessment of thing people got for sky.

There are a lot of people thought they could be bang in ipad last week.

Yes.

comfortable for everyone. I mean, I don't know how was to characterize way people feel about right now except and also a lot of people want to be like it's fine, you know, it's like some people want to give all their privacy way to a cloud. Other people, they have a particular dream.

Okay, that's fun. You can with the dream. I was talking about the number, what if you could take an pad? Um art.

So there's a lot of conversation about this voice, whether IT sounds like a cancer not there's like a reasonable debate. Some people like absolutely not. Some people he does.

Uh, people have asked open an executive directly or curly Robinson asked me directly and he said, no was not our intention. No thought of this. What's ever in an sam altman en tweet the word her, which is the movie from sy Jones, is sara cara trans.

which he says is one of his favorite movies of all time in an inspiration.

Yeah, great. So now he's und. One is for executive. If he was, things is not the point.

And then a very strange thing happens, opening action of out of nowhere publishes a block post is like, here is how we selected our voices. That's what we are time to do IT. And they they did just a very antin corporate block s.

It's like we had a process. We did casting directors ba ba. Then they had our meet David porter, me a David talk to one of their executives to go through IT. They would not say that no, they pulled at first.

They pull IT before they explained IT yeah okay.

So it's like a very Normal corporate and nine blog post. Then they pulled the voice like almost immediately actually, that they pulled the sky and say based on concerns we've heard, we're pulling this voice, which is interesting because there's only one person's concerned that matters and he is a very powerful actress in hollywood who was married to the head writer.

So can pause you on that moment. I am curious if you guys had the same reaction that I did in that moment, which is obviously scarlet johansson is mad. I just couldn't think of any other cause. This happened on what? Sunday night or the overnight in the monday morning, uh, I could not imagine a world in which they pulled this voice and put up this long blog post, which essentially amounted to one of those like my we didn't copy Scott johanson t shirt is raising a lot of questions answered by my one of those moments and we were we were covering this thing like, okay, they were they say they're just trying to a lake confusion like I couldn't think of another plausible reason other than scarlet ad is yelling, right?

There's that your reaction only thing be happening here yeah so then they called me a David, one of our reporters. And so we have an interview with our executive. They would not tell me the timely.

But the only question is, did scarlet call you in the new pool device, right? Legitimately be the only question here. And they are like we hear these concerns, we won't get that, we pull the voice and they just like, wouldn't say the time mine weird.

So we run the story, they sit. But here's the headline. Our have one is like pretty anion, right?

It's also just like more open a ei talking. We pulled this voice out of concerns. Here's here's some more color on that except they won't say what the time mine is.

Hours later, cal chance, and as a statement at first to bobbi on the M P R. And and widely, everyone that says basically like sam all been called me to be the voice of chat. Vt, I said no.

And then, you know, several weeks later i'm listening to these demos. And that sounds like my voice. I layer up and I want to know exactly how this happened.

Well, he called her like two days before the launch, like he called her initially hist that her time line that SHE airlines is like they they chat a while ago about IT and he thought about IT. Now I don't want to do the voice. He's like, cool. Didn't hear from him for a while. Two days before the demo, sam altman calls her IT is like, hey, you reconsidered and she's like, no, I don't want to do IT he's like.

cool and then he hears his voice .

to answer her yes was a perfect same of an impression by the way, I like, I know you working i'm .

not really good IT sounded like I was in a lower case then there's just one last piece of reporting. From the taxi to another form of reporter at the washington post. SHE has talked to the agent of the voice actress that open a cast for the sky voice.

Both the actress and the asian, which remain anonymous, have a lot of feelings with that, but they wish remain anonymous. And SHE seen some documents at law, a version of the timeline that says opening actually recorded all this and never said to this actual sx while giant son. So maybe there's some blurry ss here.

There's some old case law in the mix here. Know we did a story. We talked to some lawyers. Ah there is a very famous, uh, case with tom weight, who was a very distinctive voice, uh, by the way, h he lager is based later in tom waites impression in the dark uni.

That's the voice like if you think about heatHenry and the art like tom says, is a very distinctive voice. Uh, there is a very famous commercial where they asked the singer to somebody, time waight time weights suit one. There are other tactics like this where people's lightness get used without their permission.

My favorite one of this is vana White v samsung. Maybe the best of these cases that exists, a samsung ran a commercial that looked like we, a fortune, or a robot was turning the letters in vanney. Tes said, that robot is me, and one .

one she's not like.

Gally IT is with all of the cases I ever read in law school as like this is why I came here vi c droops. So there's like a lot of these wear cases like you are not allowed to trade, uh, in particular in new york, california, which is where most of the celebrities are. The state law does not allow youtube trade.

And the lessons celebrity to see your products. That just a thing we have not gotten to, uh, we clone a voice using another actress and everyone got confused. That's a new that's a new problem for our court system that are very much looking forward to sing litigated.

But but we're in this place where we've expanded the boundary, what you can take, right? And the AI companies are really just taking a lot of stuff without asking for a lot of permission. And I think this one was crazy. Hanson and sam almon in this completely in same time when that is getting complicated. The more anyone talks is I think really, you know, we taught about in the earlier segment, people have really, really like antigen tic feelings towards A I because IT feels like it's taking stuff for us in a famous actress who was in a bunch of marvel movies. She's not the right adversary .

for the .

disney right like automobile.

That's not the person you want to like mess with. Yeah, I was just kind of gobs marked by this because, you know, I think like lake bell plays does a really good AR scarlet johansson impression on an animated show where she's playing black window and and SHE sounds a lot like her. It's great but also she's playing black widow.

And and there's there's a whole there's like agreements in place and that's why it's allowed. This is he this person sounded a lot like garlic johanson and then sam altman tweed, her clearly referencing this, he's talked about how much affection he has for that voice, for that concept. It's just like you really just kept walking interrex on this one did like just just to stand still for a moment because yeah, they probably did hire of this woman and he probably didn't know that he sounded a lot like scarlet gio hanson or that's why they hire her, right?

Like there are so many weird twist in terms of all of this, right? There is the question of, 呃， was this voice made the sound like Samantha from her, or does this sound like scarlet johansson? And is there a distinction between those two things? And is that meaningful? And how much to people associate the voice of Samantha and the role of Smith with carla hanson? That's just like all of this, is unprecedented in such a bizarre ways.

But the thing that keeps coming out to me is that the immediate response was that, of course, OpenAI is wrong because, of course, OpenAI would have just gone and injured ted the movie and use that. I mean, we've seen the technology now that you can use five minutes of some boy's voice and spit out a pretty possible version of that voice. Like just the immediate assumption that that's what OpenAI did was either find a person and tell them to discuss your hand and impression or screw that, just train your model on Samantha in her and call IT today that like this company has so aggressively lost the benefit that out IT made me think of the the ipad crush commercial in the same way.

This, just like this, is a company that people do not trust and people think the worst of now and believe that their intentions are bad. And I think the thing with the open, I think, is I think the answer is probably some weird middle, sketchy thing. And that seems like the open, a ee version of the stories that open a eye, ran a pretty Normal process.

And then sam altman, who is the C. E. O of OpenAI, just like weird, went rogue and sara johansson. And now there are all these things out there about how sam just desperately wants to be famous and that to making him make mistakes. And like we've gone in all of these .

weird directions. Wait, how long can I just say? I hate IT when companies is pretend their CEO or idiots.

Totally fair. That man is a billionaire. E he is the founder of OpenAI. He is so much in charge of OpenAI that when the board of OpenAI fired him for being reckless and manipulative, the employees all staged a reverse coup and brought him back.

That's it's like, yeah, that's a real thing that happened just a little bit ago was that the board of directors was like we don't trust sam alt men and fired him and he got his way back in the company. He has a new board directors and now a bunch of employees are quitting because open eyes generally abandoning its like safety culture and he's doing this ryle stuff. And I just don't buy IT that the company he is like yet. We are running responsibly. There's just this hot head that we reverse code back in .

the CEO role that we can't control. You can like it's just to feel like like on their part. We have no control over him. And so well.

he runs the company. So I agree. And then I also find that absolutely plausible ble that the billionaire o who is kind of feeling himself would cause charlette hanson on the site.

But now I had a billion dollars, and I was like, my robot can plausibly make having your things, it's in life with him like people .

you don't tell these people who are doing the casting process who then you are happy to throw the wolves after the fact, uh but like the the bones of that version of the story do not seem implausible to me at all. But IT also doesn't matter. He's the CEO of the company doesn't matter right?

The part where they ultimately shipped the voice that sounded like her in every sense of that word um and he knew about IT and those with the demos and i'm confident that he watched .

every .

second of those demos. He was tweed yeah, those are his choices yeah.

you tweet the word to undo .

that question. White, it's the movie. Her just and I will offer you the one thousand nine ninety five case.

Metro golden mile v. American honda, where honda made an ad for the civic delsman. That a little bit too much like a jams bond movie in lost games?

yes.

IT not good. He was a guy in a suit jumping out that I remember the civic, not a high watermark civic design, but there was a civic with a uh, top that you could like take off. And so the ad was like, he's drawn.

James James bond, like character, is driving a honda tic very plausible. And he blows the top off and jumps out of the car and does some James spd stuff. And mgm said, if that is James, but you made James but wow, you can't have IT .

and they want yes. So dum.

I excited for us to go to court against hope. I can say your robot, the president by which we are suing you is M G M versus america. Have you seen the civic till sol judge m tion, by the way? Also, not only by amazon, just one of those things.

Just a weird moment in time, because, again, most of these cases took place in new york, california ages ago. Most of them are pretty Normal ads, right? Like that's why you appropriate parties like this to try to sell something. Those days are over like tiktok is full of weird deeping empties and just like pure copy and find the number of companies, right? If you run a regular company and you want to buy a regular ad and you are like, i'd like to use Taylor swift to sell my titles, you can't, but that's too expensive if you're a super shady distributor of alibaba towels in your own tiktok. It's all Taylor swift .

all day long deep fake baby.

It's crazy. And like there's a gap here that happening where the law has absolutely not cut up to reality because most these cases are about big ad agencies and big companies and big budgets running at, right? I don't know that you we're just we're just in for a moment of chaos because the reality of what happened on the ground is people do not care about the law is particularly I P.

law. And the big companies, google open a eye, they are the next generation or technology is just founded on taking stuff, which is why OpenAI does not have the benefit of without everyone believes they take whatever they want. And if they wanted to, they would just make a colonial chance in voice, whether or not the cast natural, you send IT just like her.

IT doesn't matter because of the technology exists for them to just do IT and no one thinks they have the control, not do IT. Weird yeah. No weird moment for them. yeah.

And I at least from what i've heard so far the last couple of days and here, if you've heard anything different, is that this there is no indication so far that Scott hanson is actually going to like take real legal action here you put out that one statement and we don't know what's onna happen next, but that if he did, this would have a real chance of going somewhere and being pretty important and precedent setting uh in terms of like IT just feels like in so many ways we're itching for like the one weird AI lawsuit and like maybe it's the other times one. But IT would be Frankly a lot like wilder and weirder and more funded if IT would scarlet join all.

I think they probably kind of different cases like they're they're targeting different things when they get the same thrust of things, which is can you just take shit?

Yeah like what are you allowed to do with the other days?

Can you just do stuff?

Yeah right. Even if if I do with a computer, it's fine, right? It's like that's the answer. And then IT looked, there are very meaningful differences between what you can do in a and I can do the right like, uh, for example, as I can be your house into one of your blue eyes away um I that would be a crime if for many reasons why I would the crime against your friendship. But importantly, you would not have the blue y anymore whether I came your house in, copy a file after plus server and left, I think you'd like one in our friendship is strengthening. You would also have the original copy, your very legal copy, whatever.

I would have the blue race still in my yes, that's a crap.

Uh, this is like a meaningful thing in copyright law. Whe IT was all it's all founded on. Physical scarcity has not translated to the world of like digital very well. On the other hand, I can just do whatever I want because its computer is not a workbook strategy that, you know, like there is some middle granter that no one has ever really thought through.

And I think the A I conversations, and this is a conversation, I have a thinner like, do you feel great about opening training on youtube? Okay, the web doesn't feel that way about you. And he was like, not weird.

You like everyone has to rustle with those two ideas at the same time. While we're saying, hate some, these technologies is like, really cool. Like you want some of the technology.

Gy, some yourself is really great for people who have who are differently abled, right? Like who how are you going to solve these problems in I out? I think you're definite right that like the training what the training lawsuit is a copyright lawsuit and this other stuff is like a likely last year, right, of publicity last year.

There are different bodies of law that are very hard to distinct. H for Normal people. Normal people can't tell you that.

Trina, corporate and trademark, this is even more esoteric than that. And on top of the inherent nature of IT is that these are celebrities like you can't. You don't have a right of publicity.

You don't have publicity, right? Like all of the laws built and celebrity. And so you're just gonna get a sequence of people of plaintiff who are just the most sympathetic because they are gonna be celebrities.

You and at some point, you know, like we did an episode, h Sarah john and I did epo about the cop feels a time bomb way. Some things going to happen with copyright, a lot on training data. IT is inevitable that one of those cases goes the wrong way because are so many of them now?

IT feels inevitable that particularly these companies want to trade on famous voices, even if not this case. The anna man like Kevin heart is going like that too much like things like sean is not like. It's like one of those kinds of things is gonna happen.

I mean, it's this is the music thing, really it's all of the the like copyright troll coming after anyone who writes a song with power cords in guitars. Now we're going to do that again at a crazy scale.

I feel a little almost simpler er than that because it's kind of straight forward to that if amazon had gone and released in a lexi voice of Kevin heart and IT wasn't actually Kevin heart, he would assume but amazon and said, hey, Kevin heard the same me all Jackson however, do you want to be a voice no.

no, no. Yes.

they paid him and and so like like I think in this case, there's a lot of president of like everybody else knew how to do this business and open a eye was like yoo .

yeah by the way, I don't know. It's romney that I had to immediately think of a that I had to quickly think of a very distinct tive voice in my mind went immediately to Kevin heart.

I was not going to comment on IT, but that's what I going to come in on IT to you later.

And it's a very distinctive voice. I just don't I don't .

know but doesn't think of you as the Kevin heart of the verge casts so that .

it's just take a break. And we'll see you back and be back for lighting up. Um we're time it's gna broken and I don't know. I believe you will. We're this.

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IT true. These lives can be real between me and you. It's beautiful dreams. S dreams do continue.

Alright, lying around we got to started with this one is may be the most important lighting round item um the united tes government department of justice has sued ticket master live nation signal aster. They want to break IT up. This has been a long time coming. I would say this is tailored lawsuit and feels fully like you love.

Yeah yeah, that really is. And this has been, I think, kind of in the wind ever since the merger happened. I mean, the in twenty ten, right was when the merger was. And even then, if I remember, right there was real this should not be allowed energy.

This was fully um if you want to never make the case at brock obama was kind of like a bad president.

His competition policy where he just like let the stuff slide, like he's dog and his ftc, just let the stuff slide all over the place, like full rigged like this is the core of that argument when people make IT like obama presided over the great recession, all the other stuff in recovery part of IT was we are just gonna these merger slide to bring the economy back. And now we're on the other side of IT. You can also blame on bragin.

I prefer to blame ronal reagon and we made an entire decoder video blaming ragon for second master. Um you can watch the video the basis the heart of the argument is secret master liberation and uh ticket sales obviously promotion artist management. They own all the venues and sixty of the top one hundred venues and IT and so you just have this vertical ally integrated monopoly and if an artist tries to grow with IT take a master crushes them um which means Prices group because real competition.

it's actually in a very fine way. IT is sort of perfect textbook monopoly stuff like the allegations are so simple to understand. I actually encourage people to go read the lawsuit because he really is like, if you want to understand what a monopoly looks like, IT is what these allegations say, live nation and ticket meter us, which is on everything. And just use that to beat the hell out of anybody who tries to own anything and come at you yeah and like the the threats that they are alleged to make against artists and venues who don't work with them, the ways that they like race fees to keep everybody out and like self deal to each other, like it's it's p monopoly stuff. If all of these allegations .

are true at the end of IT, the very bottom of IT, yes, Prices are high, but service quality is low, right? You don't have to invest in the ticketing platform or the APP or the website because who cares? Break.

which is why ticket mar book, yeah, which is why there's .

a crush of demand for tailored tickets. Even after he told them there, there will be a crush of demand. Can you handle IT and they still crashed and they know how to do anything because where are you going to go tailor? And I think once the united government is like, where where are you're gonna go? Taylor SHE doesn't have choice. If ten swift .

doesn't have options, there is some monopoly happening here.

Yeah then then maybe we'll do something and been anyway, you can go the last year and I said drop the link. We made a long decoder with the whole build up of this with a lot of great interview. When when I was there was A N V two episode, IT was a pilot of explaining that was fun. That was why we got to say that one out to .

throw around salt spin.

totally different.

totally, totally different. Actually have two. And I feel this one is almost more .

important that that is the new mad max movie. Yeah, that is exactly .

what it's called. But know, we ve done, we've talked before on the verge test about how you can like use electricity to make people taste things so little differently. And marino did a really good podcast verge cast on IT. Somebody else was like, what if we put those elective roads into a spoon and so we could take things that aren't salty and make them more salty? And as someone who grew up low sodium because of their mom, hell yeah.

I am so .

excited for this. I didn't know what salt tastes like and I was like sixteen like this is incredible. I'm so excited. They are only selling like two hundred of them. Um and IT doesn't work if you have like heart problems, which if you most people in those sodium diets, that's why they're on them. IT doesn't work if you're like pregnant so a lot of the people who might want to beyond low sodium diets this moment actually work for but is a salt spoon .

and that's cool yeah when I read this, I thought I was a spoon that just dumped salt.

No, that i've got one of those in my my in right now.

It's just called the spoon. Yeah no, but that's just a real CS local news. Yeah like here's a thing that precisely delivers. No, this one just shocks you into believing there's a different approach.

I love that for them and it's from the people who do like soy saw it's current oh nice.

So they .

know salt.

They should make a oh my god.

more they should .

just continue election using my brain in the flavor .

just trick my brain constantly.

please.

Yeah I we have to talk about humane. Everyone's everyone's favorite start up. Uh, there was a bloomberg this week that humane is now looking for a buyer, and I believe the Price is looking for a summer between seven hundred and fifty million and a billion dollars.

Uh also was in that story that the company is raised two hundred and thirty million dollars. So that wants of four x valuation yeah to and I would remind you that IT is it's that humane. It's the one it's the one we've talked about.

It's not a different like B2Be hum ane tha t is ver y suc cessful. Uh, truly bold strategy to come out and said, i'm not surprised this company looking for a buyer, right? Like I think the the thing you hope for with your first product is that IT gets you money to get to the second product.

And then the second product is the one research to win and that we go like that's the strategy. But if you slap on the first one and holly god as IT looked like they flapped on the first one, um it's very hard to get out of that. I'm not shocked that humane is looking for a way out. Uh, I think a is going to have a lot of trouble finding a buyer because this company is not full of people who are like beloved in the tech industry, I would say.

And at the top yeah .

at the top like a iron charger's in particular, I would say left apple not beloved by people still at apple. Ah that's about as much as I can report on that but that I I feel pretty good saying that, uh, the rest of IT is just IT is truly wild for this company to come out and say we think we should get four x what we freed and everyone who works serially get rich because of this terrible .

product that we've made OK. So two thinks one, it's probably broken and I don't believe you real theme tell.

well, that was definitely .

broken yeah we broken and I don't like i'm just saying we caught a lot of heat for being mean at the ted talk here a second. What's to go through the list? right? So apples out I they're not going to pay in the money.

Uh, I I, I concur with your reporting and that is also but as much yeah. But like if you are out in the mix is is out there, that's just information. Apple is not going to buy buy this company, especially as the entire pitch was we're gona obsolete.

The iphone doesn't seem like the sort of thing apple is going to. Now apple has the apple watch there, everyone. Um there are theory which a little shake the uh google no right that feels they're still struggling in a great fit bit.

Yeah google has A T projector. More hardware both like more hardware chops and more hardware issues then IT can deal with right?

Google for example. I just this they just merged android and the pixel team under rick astro who formally ran a picture team um in old hardware and now you uns all platforms too so rick has to like keep samsung happy right? Like he now energy a holic system which is really interesting right? But can you and he's got to figure out the rest of fitbit, which is still MC from one hundred and cent from the U. K. I just like throw a bunch of x apple designer, should not there running, not your AI platform.

right? And a big part of what humane, I suspect, is trying to sell is the Operating system, right? Theyve always said we are not just about the A I pin like there. They want to be a platform. And this is a picture here from everybody. But I suspect if you're going to pay anything like the Price that they want, you think you're buying what has the potential to be a winning platform, not a bunch of hardware engineers like google doesn't actually need more harvard .

engineers at this time. Is IT not just them trying to be like everybody's really hot for AI right now. We shipped to an AI thing by our AI thing.

but their AI thing. Open the eye.

yeah. But samsung got saturdays.

If they wanted to do that, they should have sold four months ago. Yeah, if you're just trying to capitalize, you sell before you ship and not after.

Well, this you're greedy and you think you actually like they thought I going to win. Yeah going to win.

which is fine companies to work hard. Like how do I put this? There's no lack of sincere in the human system, right?

No, that there might be some confusion, some delusion, but not not in sincere, right. OK. Google is out, right? I think google is out.

Just the the stuff runs on open a eyes stack and google doesn't run. They don't need more complication. Google anything just right? Yes, microsoft is interesting.

My life stuff. They don't have mobile, right? There's lots of rumors. I think such andella is smarter than this. That's Frankly just my my belief there. I don't think I don't think he's like, yes, i'll take a flyer in the songs SE. He's they're winning but he's like i'm going to take on the macbook air.

Yeah yeah.

that I would put if of all the possibles, my software at the top, I just think model is smarter than this destruction. Samsung, uh, loves that unfocused he is. Yeah, there they are in the mix. Love goofy hardware. Bunch of executive center on on saturdays and you do exit.

they're going to see that the story on saturday.

Like can you imagine the human team just being .

given bolly ah laser projector roles around that's something you could actually see IT and and samsung .

smart things is always interesting version that is still the human .

been running mark things is like a pure nightmare, just a absolute nightmare.

Yeah agreed. But sampling is has a history of actually following through on pretty big acquisitions in a way that I think could be interesting. I suspect the human team would not be cacked about working for samsung.

but that is maybe the .

funniest possible outcome.

Let me stuck on samsung as a history of following rapid. Have you used smart things? So it's .

still there. That's sure there is for .

as much as much as I talk about the frame TV, the people who run the services are the boxy people because something about them, one about, oh yeah, boxy. great. I. I am just saying it's it's true that team advice things and then the people continue working there. Yeah LG I think is the same right if L G gets .

a weird .

ah the same like the head, but if L G get a wife, the team I might do IT L G might buy IT. L G famously bought web s so a history of betting tum platforms um and then turning them into television Operating systems. You could see the humane what if your TV had a laser projector? They're projected under.

Pretty good. Amazon feels like a hard no, right? That company is bringing it's a getting smaller.

not panos is running all of hardware now .

yeah anos there yeah is nearly every .

business is .

not in charge of amazon devices and services.

He he's not gonna and be like, yeah, let's just buy that and integrate that into amazon's text tag. If your .

question was which of these companies is most likely to ship something that resembles the AI in, in the next three years, I think I .

might be amazon, I would agree.

but I don't think amazon would get to that point by acquiring humane.

No, my question is who will spend a billion dollars humane?

The insert that is like Steve munich .

an or something like exactly. I'm just saying my list is samsung L G. If sam, if they get a with saturday samsung and then like distant five thousand place third.

yeah, I think that's .

rather right. Also has a billion dollars costco. Well, how do you think I like to be? We're going an oracle who thought of I buying tiktok, but would be humane. Instead, IT end up .

being like variation or conchas, who is just like, really excited about a new, there are going to be back. This is your T V. Remote on your lapel. And everyone .

are the idea of the humane design team bringing that energy to launching like the next five years from. It's very good, just like on stage at ted, being like you can turn the volume up and down.

Yeah, I do want to know that, by the way, if if you're listening and you have an idea of a company that either might or should buy human, tell us on verge, cast the verge, I come call the hotline. Eight, six, six. Verge, one, one.

I genuinely were no, because I bet there is an interesting match or two that we're not thinking of. You know, they are for ford. You go drive your car with your, oh, it's going to be, it's going to be elon mus, it's going to be clock and .

it's just going to be to rock out where don't .

we'll .

see what happens again. Again, just a limber report. Humane itself has not anything, but I strongly suspect being to get out the game, I also suspect rabbit going up in the same spot. And very .

soon I got to do one more apple. Uh, you you sometimes you get photos on your phone and you're like, that's that's a terrible photo. You delete IT or you like that's too spicy to keep here in place.

My mom is my photos and you delete and there was an unfortunate bug where those photos just pop back up into people's things into their phones at apple said nothing, but they corrected IT just with latest O S. update. So you should no longer have reappearing neths or whatever else an apple is. Said nothing about that too.

It's weird to confirm a bug like this by issuing an IOS update and then saying nothing else.

Yeah, yeah. And they were old. My understanding is it's like not just of a photo you deleted last night.

It's like people old photos .

yeah so so that's that's terrifying but at the same time with recall, I would have loved that so I I don't know where I stand on this but I do stand on like, yeah I delete something I generally wanted deleted.

Do you believe it's deleted? right? Yeah.

I would believe it's deleted. I want to know where that data goes when I make a choice about IT. And I think that's the difference between recall in this like recall, you will know where the theoretically, where the data goes once the security researchers actually figure that out this week.

Big career.

Yeah this is weird.

I think you know we we are part of our job is building big companies accountable. Uh and IT is truly irresponsible for apple to not say why this happened and what they did to fix IT. There are a much people on reddit who loves argue to me and threads or like we figured that out and you're over helping this and IT doesn't matter because we I didn't cause the bug.

We didn't fixed the bug. It's great that you have a theory about what happened. The theory. Sun, wonderful. Ly, possible. I'd love IT.

I don't know what happened, right? There's there's one party that knows what happened and they they should be accountable for their mistake because this is a big mistake and it's weird that we give them the past. And so you know, we can't force them to all we can do sunday and health.

That's the share of my life has got midstream and he pushes I button every day. That's all we can do. And we just can tell you they have not respond to to any of our males or any of phone calls about this.

And I think that fundamental you're playing with people like some of the most personally exists, hopefully say something thing, not just keep some emails. What does is there to do in my administration? They will go straight to jail for for tell.

Last one, I actually excited the sonedex ad phones out, a shared out to Chris welch, who covers every square inch of the sono speed, to the point where I think sonus like the sonus read IT like waited for Chris to come around and like so itself is just like, you know, Chris here um it's great. He he's scoop the headphones. Obviously they look great there like a cross between like the SONY vibe and airports s max vibe, foreign expensive. The headline feature is, if you're watching T, V on a side of standards, can push about when the audio comes, your headphones. I, I, I want this to be compelling to me and just is not my use case for these things.

I think that's a really compelling. If you are married and you live in a small home and you want to stay up late playing video games, or you, anna, stay up late watching TV yeah .

nei and his coverage mansion wouldn't yeah nei .

your house is just too big to fully appreciate you know .

it's it's the real time .

switching the I understand that sometimes you want to watch T V in less and headphone I I got you yeah but the part like what I started with the sound bar because .

they walk out of the room, they say i'm going to bed .

and now you just like boop yeah picture but way that feature oddly is IOS only right now. Soon coming to android, weird and special audio. A, B, T, X. If you have android ed as well, no higher than anywhere else.

Know what it's blue truth ever except if you do in that we are A T V thing proves Better life um in an obviously this all comes on the heels of the disastrous at lunch which sonus won't come out and say, but IT feels very obvious that they set the timing at the headphone launch. They needed the APP for the headphones. And so then the APP came out before I was ready.

If any other sequence events occurred to make the APP come out before I was ready, I would be shocked. I wish on us would just say, IT, like Chris, talk to patric, expense CEO senna. And is like what the apple was just ready and what you just say help the APP because the headphones are coming out that would be fine or give people a choice. Don't update the APP yet.

right? Yes, shipped as if you buy the headphones. Here's the new version of our APP. It's going to be roll out to everybody before long like that. It's not a hard sequence of events to do. But instead, sonus is like, oh, this doesn't have queue management, which is what everyone wants. Let's shipped anyway.

So I don't actually, I have no problems with the step. And the only person, america, who is no problems of the step. And because we don't use the q, we use playlists or playlists are in spotify and apple music. And so like whatever.

I just don't use the sonos APP right that swiming .

like Becky just uses airplay yeah for our sonus um but it's fine. IT is a little bit faster. I know other people of wild problems like casey new things like I can even set the volume of my speakers anymore .

um it's really bad a few of a local music collection that you care about a lot to which is like an Christina. I talked about this couple that like those are the core sonos people and have been for two decades, and ono s just continues to try to drive them away in very strange ways. Yes, have sick of this. Uh, yeah, right.

This is the classic story. The company is chasing the bigger consumer market where the money is in the growth is. And then you've got these like a very passionate users who are like, my entire life is one button and APP from two thousand and four and we are the people on the red yeah would you like there there's a dynamic car that i'm as approaching this on their website. I'm aware people who are that yeah.

they released as before, concurrently, they had they had the .

two versions that was a disaster.

IT was horrible, but they had two.

No, that's IT is like .

now past has been on the show .

about times we've talked to him about a lot of things, everything from spatial audio in like how the design speaker is all the way to like anti trust, like like he's men on the show. They have mismanaged in particular these apps and what the apps do and how the apps work. If the s one, s two transition disaster, the so not like we're going to trade in your old speakers ever and then like we're going to break the old ones and they undid IT. That was bad. Like there's this thing that their in particular are not good.

which is that because get .

Better .

at the magic of sonos is how IT works with all your stuff and just talk to each other. It's supposed to be super smart and now the APP continues .

to be kind of dumb yeah again, I I have not had because I don't use some these features like what is that timers and alarm clock are broken in this APP in the idea that I would set my ARM clock using the sender APP is just what but like if you are the person people, yeah, but if you are the person who alarm clock broke, like you are mad, yeah, that's a problem, right? Like you should find a way. okay?

These core features, there are some of these core features are people just like build their lives, like alarm people build their lives around IT. You have to respect IT. And like in this case, I think so as as you've gotten more and more consumer, they sort of like gotten away from IT.

And this is just we come with that little bit that that i've like nine thousand, seven of speakers is like i'm trapped in the seekers. So it's fine. Um alright, I think that's IT. That's A T, V. D, everyone.

No.

that's IT time we are up this. Spotify has a fun.

Spotify as a fun. That's that's I have, I have. That's all the information.

Yeah, they might amazon might make you pay for election. It's like that. Yeah, the big thing is that I am going to go try to call, score hands and now and see if he will voice verga ai, it's revenge.

Do you like A I Colin jose to color? Yeah.

I will say a friend of mine was like, google should just take this voice and should they just pay her whatever amount of money SHE wants?

Now yeah.

if there is like an arms race for celebrity AI voices, I would be, I would be very 2。 That's IT also my voice is available for cheap er and scary to hands.

In case you're wondering, it's hard to prety most expense like who do is that is IT like I feel could either like hand and ryan s in terms James are all Jones .

James are Jones move faster.

And it's important to everyone that I reminded that alex creams is sixty six years old. And if you have never heard of any of those words that you just said.

don't worry, know who that is.

mean that there is like an amazon at the rate are gone higher. Yeah, this is a thing that exists. You just buy other voices from me. This.

all right, you can IT send us your notes .

with who you think the most expensive voice should be. I don't want I T read your ideas. Everyone's gone to agree with me. the.

And that's IT for the bird cat this week. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at eight, six, six bird one one. The bird cast is the production of the verge and box media podcast network are show as produced by Andrew marino and liam James. That's IT .

we'll seen next week.

Support for this episode comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud. Hey, italian, from decoder with new ipad top, we spend a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buying? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listening to you right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players and t not to acquire and instead license can hire away co founders? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with me, lip presented by strike. You can listen to the coder whether you get your podcast.