How AI will change phones — and the whole internet
01:20:37 Share

Welcome to the verge cast the flagship podcast of anti glare coatings. I'm a friend of peers and I am dune. My taxes. It's that time of year, my friends, the one time a year I need a printer minus currently broken. And suddenly I have to pretend that I understand a lot more than I actually do about, like, complicated financial documents.

And honestly, most of all, this is the time of year that I most wish I were more organized during the rest of the year so that this wasn't such a painful process. I have this like beautiful filing system that I never touch until right about now and then. I regret all of my life choices over the past twelve month, but I don't really see that dynamic changing in a time soon.

So here we are. Anyway, we have an awesome show free today, but some quick housekeeping staff before we get to that. First thing you'll notice it's tuesday in this episode is publishing we are from now on going to be publishing the verge cast on tuesdays and fridays.

There are bunch of reasons for that, but mostly IT just lets us cover more stuff more quickly. When we had to wait until wednesday is IT felt like we were doing a show and then really quickly doing another show and they're not doing a show for a bunch IT is. So this just kind of even the spaces the verge cast a little Better.

It'll let us be more on top of the news is it'll let us do all kinds of stories. And IT won't, you know bunch our episodes quite so much in your feed? Hope it's going regret.

Hope IT doesn't screw up any of your routine. Please let us know what you think. Also, we are gone to start having a full post on the verge dot com with all of our show notes, a whole bunch links, lots of information about everything clips.

We've heard all of you asking for Better show notes and more links to stuff you can read about that we talk on the show. So we're just going to start doing that at the verge dot comes flash verge cast you able to find all of every single time we public. That's a great place to leave.

You think the episode, we're going to a try to do a good job of being in the comments and talking to you and we wanted hear all the dumb things we say and all the times that you agree with me and not me, I put her in the comments, tell us everything. We have lot the changes coming soon actually, especially on youtube. So stay tuned.

The verge cast as a thing is not changing, so don't way, but we have little ways. We think we can do everything a little Better and make IT all more fun to watch and listen to and down and all that could stuff. So lots more coming. Stay tuned. Alright, enough that let's get to the show.

First thing we're going to do today is we're going to talk to josh Miller, who is the city of start up called the browser company, which is trying to basically nothing short of reinvent the web brows er and do some big A I stuff and generally maybe changed the internet forever. That all sounds big and ambitious, but IT is big and ambitious and it's fascinating. Then we're going to dig into all things galaxy s twenty four with alison Johnson because it's only february and we might have already seen the most important android phone of the year.

All of that is coming up in just a second. But first, I have to go finish this one thing on this tax form, which is literally a form I ve never heard of before, hopefully only takes a minute. This is the verge cast.

We'll be right back. Support for the verge cast comes from strike. Strike is a payments and billing platform supporting millions of businesses around the world, including companies like uber, B, M, W and door dash.

Striping has help countless startups and establish companies like reached their growth, make progress on their missions and reach more customers globally. The platform offers the sweetest specialized features and tools to fash track growth like stripe billing, which makes IT easy to handle subscription bed charges in voices and all reactions ring revenue management needs. You can learn how stripe helps companies of all sizes make progress at stripe dot com, that striped dot com, to learn more right, make progress.

Support for the show comes from service. Now the AI platform for business transformation, you've heard the big hype around A I. And the truth is, A I is only as powerful as the platform is built into service. Now is the platform that puts AI to work for people. A your business, removing friction and frustration for your employees, super charging productivity for developers, providing intelligent tools for your service agent to make customers happier, all built into a single platform you can use right now. And that's why the world works with service now is a service now outcome flash A I for people to learn more.

Welcome back. Over the last couple of years, this browser called arc has become super popular, is available on mac, and I, O, S is coming to windows soon. People are super me to IT, which is weird, honestly.

I mean, one was the last time people got excited about a web broster t scape power and these of use. It's free and let's cape that gum. But arca has some cool, unusual ideas about how brothers should work.

And it's just so much nicer to use the chrome or edge. It's just caught on for a lot of people. As a result. Last week, the brothers company, which is the company that makes arc, released a new mobile APP called arc search. It's a mobile broza and a pretty good, but its way more than that.

It's also an A I tool called browse for me that is like a combination of search engine AI chat about web page maker and a bunch of other things. It's confusing to explain and Frankly, kind of hard. So let me just give you an example.

Let's see the gram is for the other day. So I go into art search on my phone and I say, what happened at the grim is on sunday and then I said that in. And then I hit browse for me in arc.

And IT takes a second. IT says it's reading six web pages, cbs news, new york times like that. And then IT pops up this page that has highlights of the twenty twenty four creamy awards.

This is a completely AI generated web page. IT has a bunch of things at the top. Like killer mike, the rapper was arrested.

Tailor swift to won her fourth album of the hear award, uh, women dominated. There was a physical altercation, apparently he says that at the top. And then IT has some search results.

And then IT has more, more information about killer marketing arrested, more information about tailor swift wins, more notable wins, including Tracy chapman, who didn't win but perform to do IT. This is the thing about A I right now. This is perfect.

But anyway, it's this big, long list of information and links and media and videos to watch that is all completely A I generated. IT is building a web page for me every single time I search. It's neat and IT does always work, as you can see.

And it's weird, like a lot of A I stuff is weird. But IT also points at something really big about how the internet is changing. What does that mean for the web that I can just get? Information like this arc is essentially just google in for me, which is handy, but IT kind of changes the whole dynamic of the internet.

So I grabbed josh Miller, the brothers company 的 C。 E. O, to talk all of that through what arc wants to be, how it's gonna AK, the web apart and lots more.

I've been talking to judge for years. I find art really fascinating onesta. And he's always had these really big ideas about what a browser could be and also why he thinks the browser is worth building in the first place.

And if you rewind four or five years ago, we're in this age back then, where a couple of Operating systems rule the words, right, android, IOS, windows, mac. You want to a do anything interesting, you have to reckon with those oasis. And they are the ones that have the real control of how things work. But josh had this, including at the time that the web, and specifically web based apps, were making a come back .

fig ma notion, slack, even discard. These are all just secretly web apps running and web browsers pretending their not web browsers. And so the foundational observation of the browser company was, oh my goodness, the next Operating system is written front of our eyes.

It's gona look more like a web browser. It's can be a web browser design for the web because essentially to use a wall street term, the cloud is underestimated and the shift to the cloud is underestimated. IT is a fundamental shift that we take for granted that all of the things in our life with related technology are actually not in our lives anymore.

They are out on a server or many server somewhere. And so the bet of the brother or company was, if you reimagine the interface to those things, to the internet, that would effectively become the most important Operating system in our lives. And to be totally self aware, that was kind of all we had at the time.

So that's the frame here, right? The web is the thing is as if the APP store was already around in two thousand, four, two thousand and five or whatever, and apple went, huh? Somebody should build an iphone to run all these things.

That might be cool. It's exactly backwards in the most interesting way. That's our big plan. And now with A I R can do that more and bigger and faster.

But what is IT trying to do and is what is trying to do what we want, both as users and like people on the internet. So that's a rejoice. And I really got into IT.

I ask him, you know, you've been shouting all this nonsense about web brothers for years now. And this new APP arch arch feels like the closest thing yet to getting to that idea about what an Operating system can do to the web. So does this feel like you've finished, like you've done the thing? The first thing i'll say is.

now I know you thought I was spewing nonsense for these past few years that we've been friends.

We're all spewing nonsense most of the time.

also spewing nonsense. That's your another thing. People don't tell you when you're Younger, yes, but not for the reasons you may think OK the reason that this new iphone APP arc search feels like the truth representation of what we've been saying for many years. My dad has this phrase that he told me wait too many times growing up, which is, disregard the words and the idea of this phrases, that we add these labels to things, these nouns, and they gain all this cultural meeting to the point where we almost forget that they were made up. They don't actually mean they don't represent natural law.

Yeah and what we've been saying from the beginning and the reason that we use these phrase, the computer and Operating system for the web, as imperfect as they were and as ambitious as they were, is that we were trying to say, is that if you approach software and interfaces to the internet from a human perspective, what is David need to do today? What is David's wife have to get done today? Why are they turning to their computer? And you work backwards from that.

You probably don't need a thing called the web browser or a search engine or a web page, because those are random nouns that were invented twenty five years ago. The reason that arc search represents in its purest form to date, our big idea is that it's something different. It's something new.

It's kind of hard to put a label on IT. You struggled with IT in your review is IT a browse at a search engine is at A I is at something else. And that makes me really excited because that is what we are trying to do.

We are trying to start with what is they even need to do when he is at the restaurant with a bunch of friends, and they have a random question, something that comes up in conversation, find the answer to that as quickly as possible. And we should employ whatever tools announce and technologies we need to do that as quickly as possible. And yeah, turns out ends up looking a little different than web browsers of twenty five years ago in search engines of twenty five years ago in what pages of yesteryear.

So that's what makes me so excited about our searches. It's a reminder to ourselves and everybody that, hey, we can invent new knows. And in fact, if those new nouns are invented to solve problems and realized goals that we have, they might even be Better than the old nouns.

That's why i'm so excited about IT. One of our principles has always been the idea of a general purpose. Web brows er is deeply flawed.

So use use of the interns that I want to talk about. But we've started to talk about the internet in a really different way than we used to, where I think you can make the case that we got the internet that we got, which I think bian o is a good version of the internet based on this, like overall value exchange that everyone agreed on, right?

Like google came up because google made a bet that what was good for the way, but also be good for google and set itself up as a company, worked out. And I worked that way for a really long time, and I went super web for google, and I think largely went wealth, the internet, facebook, built on some of the same premises, right? Like there's this idea that I, as a person on the internet, and going to get value out of something that people who make the tools that are used are also going to get value that like everywhere along the way.

If we can all find win wins, it's going to make the internet Better. And I think with the advent of A I, what IT has come to is okay. The internet exists. IT is now a thing to be mind for your benefit. And I think the people who are mad at OpenAI and ChatGPT in the the new year time swing over the training that there's this idea that like what we made things and you use to take those things, but you would deliver value back to us. And now you're just taking them because the the idea is, is that the internet is just out there and everything that out there is out there and you can just have IT.

And I think one of the things that I thought was really reading about our searches is not only you doing the LLM stuff, which I think is is interesting, we should talk about, but you're also you're blocking ads by default, your backing tracks ers by defauts, you're blocking the cookie pop ups by default. That's a big series of, I would say, potentially user centric and maybe hostel set of things to do. You rely on the internet to work, but you also are sort of tactically agreeing that the way the internet works doesn't really work. Like how do you do both this at the same time?

I think if you look back at maybe what some people would say were the glory times for the early web, when as you are looting to maybe the incentive were Better aligned and the value exchanges Better aligned, I personally remember craggs less decimating the business models of the offline media companies and then especially newspapers, because of their innovations.

At this moment in time, when we're talking about the value exchange being great, I actually order to remember a lot of second order negative extremities that came from the web at this glorious moment. Yeah, that's a good point. My belief is that having worked at facebook after selling my first company there, is that anything that transforms our world? Again, sociology major.

Has very positive things that happen and has very negative things that happen, right? Airbnb is one of my favorite products and experiences. It's ruining a lot of cities. The same is true for almost everything that changes how we live our lives. As a relates to l ms and A I and what you're looting to in terms of its relationship to the exchange of value, I think the same is true here.

I think IT is absolutely true that arc search and the fact that we remove the clutter and B S and make you faster and get you what you need with a lot less time is objectively good for the vast majority of people. And this is also true. IT breaks something.

IT breaks a bit of the value exchange and not just arc surge, but all of these tools, it's one level higher than arc surging or ChatGPT. We are grappling with a revolution in how software works, in computers work, and that's gonna. Ss, some stuff up.

And I totally agree with the premise of the question, which is, I, someone's breaking and it's really gonna break soon. I hundred percent agree. So I think the answer is I think IT will do more positive than negative.

And I think it's kind of unbeliever. How much of humanity is time has been wasted by how IT roses to the mobile webs in support of the search ad business model. And we got to to figure out a Better way to get content creators and publishers paid because it's not gonna and it's not been working and it's not been working since scrag. So that is definitely a chAllenge for assault grapple with.

I do think the one difference and I don't want to, like, do well on philosophy of AI, but I think the one difference between the like cries this example, which is a really good, and this is that crx's st build a Better product than all of those things, right? like.

And I think what we're learning about the media industry in particularly that the media industry got along and building really crappy products and got eaten alive by Better products. That just is what IT is. And the next reckoning is going to be like, what does that look like for a media company to build product? It's a thing we talk about all the time at the verge.

It's like why we did the redesign of our website. The way we did, it's like as we think about all of our future is as much about product as IT is about anything else. And the difference between that and what's happening now is that what's happening now with a lot of l EMS.

One way to look at IT is IT says if craig list had taken all of the classified out of all of the existing newspapers and just posted the on the internet, and I think people would be, but that's not a Better product that you stealing from me and we packaging IT in a new way, and I think that would have been a very different version of the conversation. And again, I think there is a lot of like society wide reckoning to do about A I. There are a lot of people who are like, well, the upside is so high that is worth the you know investment of all of our stuff into IT because we'll get more utility out of IT.

But I just think like that fundamental question I don't think has president on the internet because this just never worked like this before. And I don't think we have answers to IT, which is going to be fat cat. And now you're right in middle of so congratulations.

It's really exciting to think about from a media company perspective, what is the superior product, what is the next evolution of media? And what I would say is, candidly, I have a deeper relationship with the verge than I ever have before. I ve been reading the verge for over a decade now.

I have never spent that much time and had that much debt with with your publication. Now i'm not saying that the economic incentives of your ad model with pod casters working out, but that's all to say that in the same way that arc can rethink our interface to the internet in a new way, thanks to this technology. I think the answer probably lies in the media industry and media companies rethinking what they do as well. sure.

And I will see to your credit, one thing you have said to me many times over the years is that there is a big phase of this four arc that is figuring out how to, like, be a good citizen of all of those things.

You see this an arc search, by the way, which is here's what we could have done. You could have typed a question to arc search, and we could have answered IT and given ourselves all of the credit, right, look at how smart archs. It's the smartest st thing that ever existed.

In fact, what we do is we say extremely prominently, we know we actually don't even let you do anything else until you read the fact that, hey, we are your browser. We are gonna read these six websites, these six websites. And then we are going to summarize a little bit about what each of those said.

And then we're going to link to all of them. We're going to link to them multiple times. We're even going to verify a pool quote from them. And so ah I think again, this change is inevitable. I think it's good for most people.

I do think that their second order externalities, I think that is the responsibility of folks like us to do our best with the role that we have to be good citizens. And that's what we try to do. Hear relative to other competing products, attrition at name because they ve got pr training.

But I don't think it's enough. And I think the answer to this question is one level higher than the browser company or verge or anyone else. But IT is absolutely something we need to grab with.

So i'm glad you rot up the U. X of IT all because I think how is an A I tool supposed to look is my favorite question in the world right now. And I think people on this post start tired of hearing me about IT.

But the one thing I believe for sure is that a text box is not the future of the internet. But i'm curious, like the one thing I know that the brother companies is been a lot of temperature ping. You d spend a lot of time experimenting in building stuff and you landed on arch search. The wait is which is an interesting mix of kind of what I would call like there's media stuff at the top and then there's kind of a by bulleted summary and then there's bunch links and then there's more summary and then there's more links that a that a fair description of of the situation.

The two things that you're missing that i'm especially proud of is we embed youtube videos. True, you can watch videos online, and then we embed verified quotes where we pull a quote from one of the articles, and then we use A I and we say, hey, I, you actually make stuff up, are a lot. So do is a favor, this poke vote you told us he poled, just go double check to make sure it's actually there. And then if IT is, then we say, hey, this quotes verified, we can show IT. So those are two other interface innovations, and especially proud OK.

So of all of the things you tried and thought about and play with, why did that feel like the right set up? I think we're still in this phase again, of there are a million ways A I can present itself to you. Most of them right now, our chat bots. What about this one stuck out to you as feeling right for research.

So as you have mentioned, we prototype a lot. So we tried fifty variations of that experience before we landed on the exact when you see in our search today and in fact, down to the tiny's details, like do we show a modulus bullet points or do we just show bullpen? Ts, you lend on a .

which was the right call.

by the way. Thank you. Thank you. I take no credit for what shout out to me the way that we landed on IT is. I agree with what you said, which is, why does everyone think texting xe are like the future? There's got to be something Better.

But I think the way that we approached IT was not you hey, shall I be this or should to be that we really try to approach IT as hey, let's write down throughout the week. What are the things we look up on the go on our phone, just quickly make a note of IT, and then let's go through all that stuff that we turn to our computer in our pocket and our internet for on the go. What are the commonalities with the sort of things we wonder about? Okay, great.

Looks like i'm really bad at cooking. And at the age of thirty three, I still don't know how to make cuse cuse. That's problematic for a bunch of reasons. But if I need to know how to make excuse and i've got one hand because my other hand is dirty and the water's boiling, and I got other stuff to do, what is the fastest way we can get you the information for that jo B2Be don e and the oth ers? And what you end up finding is it's not just the wall of text, it's not just photos, is not just video, it's sort of a mixture of things, but it's all grounded and not, hey, let's go make a product that is a web page or a text box or a photo gallery.

But we really tried to ground IT in what you what do you turning to this rectangle in your pocket for every day? And how can we craft a dynamic interface that, as best as possible, tries to shape, shift itself to answer exactly what you want. So what you will notice is if you ask our search for how to cus cus, you actually get back a very different experience than if you asked IT, what is the meaning of life exchange.

It's very telling to me that the phone was the center of peace, that because one of the things I was going to ask you, as does the same paradise, makes sense on a desk top browser, and I almost don't think that IT does, one of the things you always said to me, which I think I mostly growth, is that most people don't want to use technology. They have a thing you'd like to get done and they use technology in service of that.

They're not just like goofing around on their phone. They mostly have like A A thing they'd like to do and see your jobs to help them do IT faster. And I think if that what you think about IT, the way you put arc search together makes a lot of sense.

But in a world of like I am just sitting here and I want to lake learn as much about much, you peach you as I can. The idea of delivering me what arc searches, which is sort of like a finished product thing, makes a lot less sense, but that's also not what people do on their phone. So does this feel like a sort of truly mobile centric and even maybe mobile specific way of solving this problem?

So three things. The first is you're absolutely right that which device iron will radically change what you should and will look like in arc. And so the sort of questions you're wondering at the bar when you're talking your friend are different than when you your desktop on a sunday trying to do some big research project for a big purchase you and your wife about to make.

And so yes, IT will look very different on desktop because what you're trying to do is very different. The second thing is the principal behind arc search, which is these artists, formally known as the web browser. The search engine and web pages are archaic ideas that should be merged and blended together into a new dynamic interface, definitely applies on desktop, and definitely applies on mobile in other ways.

And an example of that is on desktop. One of the features we just launched is something we call instant links. An instant links you can type in, you can hit new tab, and on desktop and arc type videos of Steve jobs unveiling the iphone, ipod, machining, tosh and ipad and hit enter and art will go out, and it'll grab a video of each of those Steve jobs unveiling events and put a right in your browser.

You skip the surge. And altogether, that's the same idea that the exact idea, but tailor to the thing you are trying to do on that device in that moment. So that foundational principle of there is a new type of software, a browser that browsers for you that merges these three things is there. I think the final thing i'll note, which I think is more broadly applicable, is if you to really reduce down this phrase AI, which also means kind of nothing correct, and you were to roose reduce down even large .

language models .

and really fancy and smart, but don't ask me what. So if you were to reduce AI and l ms. Down to their essence and explain IT to a five year old. The thing you would say is for the first time, computers can read. And if computers can read, then they can understand, truly understand what you're asking them.

And so I think really the underlying principle of what archie doing with this new category of software on mobile and desktop is not actually even the output that's not what's knew yeah sure. IT will be new and that IT will be dynamic and in no look and feel different. It's the idea that you can go to arc on mobile desktop and tell arc what you're looking for and what you're trying to do.

And thanks to these large language models, we can understand that for the first time and route you to the right place and route you to different things in different ways that wouldn't have been possible before that really what's the most different to me? And I think people failed ed to talk about that because they tend to focus on, oh my god, I just wrote me a high cool about computers, even though, why would I need a high Cooper? I mean, IT is wild, but that is not that's not really what's fun, really knew.

It's the fact that our computers can read and think with us for the first time. Opening eye has this product or this part of their A P I called function calling and functions calling remarkable. What function calling is able to do is is able to allow us to take an input from a person like you say, what are these iphone charges and then not only understand what you're asking, but then based on its understanding, routed to specific places and to specific things that actually have nothing to do with a ee.

So one of the reasons that people, including me, many months ago, were a little bit, barry, all this A I hype was I was just seeing these blobs of text output IT and assume that was A I. No, no, no, that was just one output. But thanks to function calling, you can say, okay, if David is asking for videos of Steve jobs unveiling the ipod, iphone, macintosh, great.

He's looking for these three video. So go to youtube and grab those videos. There's no pollution invention. I think it's going to get IT wrong. It's technology is is imperfect as we are, but that's actually wildly valuable and pretty unreal.

Why is everyone talking about that? And because we get caught up in these memes and these words that just mean everything and nothing to us. So function calling is where it's up and they'll be more of those .

in the future. That super city. That's also just like straight forward, the thing that comes after search engines right here in a certain way. All that doing is taking what would be a google results page with a bunch of ads at the top and just skipping all of that, it's just saying instead of me having to go say, where's this video and then click on the video and watched the video, then save IT to my cyber, it's just putting those things in my side bar, which in a funny way to me is like actually way more understandable than a lot of the A I F. Because one of the reactions to all of these things is basically like actually google very good and it's very good at finding information.

And maybe we don't need to just completely reinvent this real with chatbot and to a large ics that i'm actually really receptive to that argument. I think google is a lot less good than he used to be, but it's still, if you want to find a piece of information, the internet, google is pretty and good. But then the next step after google alerting you to the existence of that information is awful.

And it's because web brother suck. And this is like, why have voice that are is interesting? So you just sort of backed your way towards the search engine and now you're just like a disinter media. And entirely.

I agree, I think google doesn't get enough credit for how it's innovated and push search forward and how actually wonder this search is.

And I would push back on the idea that google search gets us what we're looking for because if aliens arrive tomorrow and they're like, look, I just read this great book, god save taxes by Lawrence, right on the spaceship, right over, and i'm looking for a new book, and you went to go and you typed in book similar to god save texes by Lawrence, right? And then, ow, magically so fast google brought you what you wanted. Like, oh, oh, are those books? Well, no, not quite.

Those are called the links and there's links. Uh, yeah, click on the link. The books gonna in there.

Oh, no. So these aren't books either. These are liberals. And in lists are books.

And then if you click on this other thing, those are books. So the truth is that there are these abstractions that we forget about. But google doesn't really bring IT on one hand to make IT simple.

Google brings you what you're asking for in the sense that that brings back a bunch of links. And on the other hand, IT doesn't bring you you're asking for and that IT makes you stop a google first. And often times think you're looking for are buried in a bunch of links and a bunch of links behind that. And now we have the technology to say, let us go straight to bring you what you want and bring IT right to you. That's a that's a pretty big idea and that's exactly how a human being wanted to work.

I agree and disagree with that.

And I like, i'm glad you put in that way because I think one of the fun things were going through right now because of ai is trying to figure out which a new ideas are Better enough to be worth unlearning decades worth of habits and which are and right, like I think about, I don't know, syrian google assistant and alexa, right? The idea that voice is a much more natural interface for asking information than typing on a keyboard unequipped true. The tech wasn't very good.

And also, people are not used to IT. And so we all kind of just like, well, it's pretty easy to type on my phone. I'll just see that and said I just was intervening somebody for a future trip. So they show about a keyboard layouts and like, you know, it's Better than quality keyboard layouts is everything else.

But good luck trying to convince people do not use quota keyboards, right? So I think that question of can you build something that is so much Better that IT will actually make people make real behavioral change verses like, no, it's it's not the most human natural thing in the world that we all sort of learned how to type in what google cause keywords. But i'm pretty good at IT now, like I can get what I want out of google pretty successfully.

And so, you know, screw the aliens. What's going to take for me to switch, I think, is is very much the same question. And this like path of A I O in the next two years, I think, is really where we're going to start to see where IT doesn't doesn't clear that bother. I think it's going be fascinating.

I agree with you unless you're web browser. okay. And this is exactly why we built a web browser. This is exactly why Operating systems have so much leveraging.

How is technology in that? If I want to make an AI chatbot, APP called, and I got really popular and wanted to radically change the way we get information, you got to remember to go to that tab. And as you said, you have this great muscle memory IT.

Maybe chatty is Better than gool, but you have to remember that instead of hitting new tab or command t go to that chatty tab. Yeah, that's really hard to you. You really yeah, it's really hard.

If in fact, you are the web browser and you are the text box that people type into to go to google, you don't need to change your behavior. Your behavior actually doesn't happen in google. Google just a tap to everyone forgets that it's actually the browser that is your interface to the web that is the browser where your muscle memory is.

And then you might say, yeah, well, if you send me to chat instead of google, i'm still gonna be mad because I wanted google, because chatty is not as good at all the searches. Well, great. Thanks to function calling and thanks to A I.

We can know if you're asking as something that really google is the best that or should we you to chat? Or should we not send you anywhere? Should we just bring IT to you? So one of the other features that we're launching on arc for mac is I hate ten minute.

I haven't alert set up and not have an alert at some regular innovation. I go to google and I type news about the brothers company or news about arc broza. And I do that a lot.

We have a new feature called lifeholders where whenever there is a new press story, hopefully written by David peers and hopefully glowing about arc, it'll just pop up in my side bar. I don't even need to go to search. So again, because we're the web browser, you don't have to change in grain behavior.

We're just going to pop up up right in your side bar. So yes, I think people underestimate how in Green behaviors are and how hard did you get people to change anything. Because at the end of the day, they don't really care about technology. And that is exactly why we built a web brows er everyone thought we why would you work going to ask that web brows er could not be more boring. Well, it's actually in fact because it's so boring that we want to work on IT because you happen to use IT for eight hours a day.

And so if you use IT for eight hours a day and you're all over this rectangle, if we place things in this rectangle or if we change where you go on the rectangle, when you type in something, that actually a great place to beat, a change in trench behavior without you having to change anything yourself to subtract in that complexity. All we're proposing with arc and this idea of a browser, the browser for you, is that we can then do to google or google add to the web, google and all these other applications we use, which is, wow, there are now so many web apps, open and tabs and google docs and all of these things, it's too much to reason about. I have to do ten search query ies just to find what i'm looking for.

It's time for a layer that sits above that which says you tells what you're trying to do. And we will go use the search engines and web apps and read the articles for you so that the other thing that feels so exciting as IT feels like a natural kind of march of progress tored making IT your day easier and easier until one day you can really just tell arc or whatever software comes next, what you're trying to do. And I will go figure out what on the internet you want to use.

If you're right. Two companies come to mind that are sort of perfectly set up to do the vertically integrated thing you're describing, which are google and microsoft, like they're sitting on the whole text stack more so than you are to do all of the things that you just described. Google has google, google has chrome, google has gemini, and all of it's IT.

Like all IT has to do is like put three project managers in a room together and they could start to build something similar way describing microsoft s the same with being in all the OpenAI stuff and what's to prevent them from doing this too. I think there's real energy in the browser space because of this for the first time. And right now, so much of IT is just like we stick a chat bott in your side bar or some of the little organization stuff like google is large bunch stuff crime.

That is basically like less interesting feature of what arc max was doing a few months ago. But with real energy and resources, they could outmuscle you in pretty much every direction here if they chose to. right?

You are absolutely right that i've you are true competition as microsoft, google and apple. sure. I actually think apple is the one that is in the best position to do this.

And they are all trillion dollar companies with everything, of course, that is terrifying. And of course, that is going to be a big chAllenge. Now there is a famous story about google chrome wear.

When you open a new tab, you see the new tab page. IT shows you a title of your most frequently visited sites and the way that they used to show those tiles were with screen shots, know a picture of the web page. And then this pm.

Had this idea, you know, it's actually much easier and faster to just show the logo of the website, because people who can more quickly identify, oh, that tile is twitter than IT is to identify the screen shop. And that P. M.

Was right. IT made IT so much easier for people to quickly find what they were looking for by clicking on one of those tiles. There was a major freak out of google because overnight ad revenue, search ad revenue, drop by five percent, which is a huge deal.

Google scale, five percent red alert. What happened? What did we changed? And IT turned out that this pm, making IT easier for people to get what they needed faster in the web.

Broster tanked google global ad revenue because when you click on a tile, you're not to in a google search. So on paper, to google and microsoft have everything IT takes. yes.

Is there a lot of structural chAllenges to big public companies with shareholder pressures not to hurt the cash cow that is search ads? Yes, sure. Can I remember the last time that google and microsoft invented something wildly new that revolutionized the category where nothing had come for IT? no.

Is this time different? Potentially, we're going to pretend like we're competing with them in a really big way. But I think that we're just going to keep doing our thing and hope that they keep love .

and search as fair ough. So the reason I think, in way of thinking to be most curious about what apple is up to is that IT seems to have a lot of those same capabilities and less to lose as a search business, essentially like savory. I mean, the whole google anti trust thing makes this very interesting with the safari at deal that could get very complicated over time.

But apple seems to have a big, very successful, very popular browser that makes that a lot less is a lot less important to its future as a company. Then say crime is to google. I actually think you're .

putting a little too much emphasis on search. I think it's one or two levels higher than that. What really talking about is this idea, which, by the way, is not original to, but the idea is you tell ark, or you tell your interface to your computer or the internet what you're trying to do.

And then in this new world, IT will go use whatever tools in any information that needs to do IT for you and bring you back to you. There's almost universal agreement that out gna work. And in order for that to work, you need three things.

First, you need a really rich data set about each individual. everything. Lets go on their personal life, professional life, what they type in text boxes, what they read on web pages, the documents that matters to their work, so you unique data set about each individual.

The second thing you need is you need the ability to manipulate all of the tools and the applications that people rely on to do what they do on their computers and on the internet. So difference, you need them to be logged in to the apps. sure.

The third thing that you need is you need an interface, to your point of our behavior change, that people use all the time, all day, every day. They only need to change anything they do. They just keep doing their thing.

And you can then go put the future in those places. You need those three things. There are only two types of software that have those three things. The first are Operating systems. The second or web brothers, I promise you, there is no way that the future powered by AI will exist in anything other than an Operating system or a web broster. So I the only thing that keeps me up at night are web browse companies and Operating system companies because I think those are the only two type of companies that have a shot at reimagine, our interface to the internet.

So last thing, and this is a question i've been meaning to ask you for several weeks now, did you see the rabbit launch A C this little A I gadget thing? I saw that thing. And I, after talking about a lot of the stuff that you have been talking a while, and I been talking about now, I looked to that.

I was like a cave. If john in the pressure company had become a hardware company, this is roughly what they would have gone after. The same idea like, okay, if the goal is to have these tools accomplish something on behalf, instead of building me like a nice web brows er that I mean all day you would have built me like a fun teenage engineering gadget that I can press a button and talk to all day. Does that feel right to you? What did you make of what rabbits up to you?

First of all, I love anyone that dares to dream and anyone that just goes for IT. And I love that energy. They are nothing .

if not going for IT that time.

I love anyone that stands up on a metaphorical stage and says, i'm excited. I think the future should work like and i'm a dedicate my life to doing something really bold and different than what we're used to. So I have a lot of respect for that.

I also totally agree that the future is going to work like you telling your computer, whether it's arc or rabbit, what you want to do. And I should go do IT for you and abstract that complexity. I think the one place where I personally see a slightly different future is I don't want more gadgets in my life.

I don't want more devices. I think the secular trends of the cloud and the secular trend toward our stuff, our digital stuff being out on a server somewhere, whether it's an application or data, is that we can actually have free ourselves from the machines. We can freer ourselves from the devices because they are everywhere.

I was on a united flight last night. I was like, i'm not sure this for the first time, the seat in front of me could probably run the vision pro. It's like it's the computers are going everywhere.

And so what i'm really excited about is the world in which the computer and air quotes that you talk to, the place that has all of your data and stuff, is not another new box I gotta put somewhere on my body, whether that's on my face or in my pocket or another button. I gotta remember the press instead of that other button. But I wait, that's not the action button.

That's the volume screen shot. What i'm really excited about is the idea that your computing life just goes with you everywhere to every device. But I do think the rabbis fascinating from a vision perspective and a boldness perspective. And I probably have a lot more in common with whoever started that company then I do with someone else that I shouldn't. Me.

fair enough. So what you just made me realizes that i've talking about arc in terms of crime for a really long time, and I should have been talking about in terms of chromo s for a really long time.

Internet computer Operating system for the.

But we are describing, and you know, one of the things you announced last week was this thing I was at arch anywhere, the new thinking service that becomes very important, right? Because what you're essentially building me is not a piece of software that lives on my computer. You're building me a piece of software that lives and everywhere that I can just sort of tap into in whatever way I need to, whenever I need to. And all of us didn't like art anywhere becomes the thing as much as whatever IT is on my device becomes the thing.

Ark anywhere is the product. Ark anywhere is a the computer.

This all just clicked in my brain as you were talking.

This is why we have to talk more IT isn't today, i'm not only over promise is a cross platform thinking mechanism for getting your tabs wherever you need them, but right behind you on this recording, you have a TV IT looks like A T, V sitting up on a little a nights.

Then it's a piece of crap. Never buy a rock.

Well, one day that piece of crap computer in five years will actually be a very powerful computer, just like the phone in our pocket is a much more powerful computer than IT was a decade ago. And so the idea of arc and arc anywhere is that one day when you're sitting on that couch behind you, looking at that screen you're looking at, which is now as powerful as the iphone in your pocket, you should just be able to toasted, gLance and authenticated, that is you. And then your in airports, computer, all of your apps and data and conversations and people should appear on the screen.

That is the whole idea of arc, that is, the idea of this next wave, is that your computer is just an old known for saying the stuff that matters in your digital life that is yours, and that should go with you anywhere, on any screen, on any device. And the way that you IT should interface with IT in the future is not opening seven applications in nineteen search, query tabs and twenty seven list call. You should just tell the device in your life through art. Here's what i'm trying to do, and I should bring IT to you that should be of a browser or the browse for you or a Better tag line because I don't love that tag line, but that feels where to invent your own now.

All right, we go to take a break and then we're going to talk samsung and we're going to talk galaxies will get back.

Support for this show comes from the aclu. The aclu knows exactly what threats a second Donald trump term presents, and they are ready with a battle tested playback. The aclu took a legal action against the first trump administration four hundred and thirty four times, and they will do IT again to protect immigrants rights, defend reproductive freedom, safeguard free speech and fight for all of our fundamental rates and freedoms. Join the aclu today to help stop the extreme project twenty twenty five agenda. Learn more at aclu dot org.

Support for the show comes from the crucible moments, a podcast from scope capital. We've all had turning points in our lives where the decisions we make hint up having lasting consequences. No one knows this Better than the founders of some of today's most influential companies.

Incredible moments. Lets listen ers in on the maker break events that defined major companies like dropbox, youtube, Robin hood and more told by the founders themselves. Tune to see. And two of crucial moments today you can listen a crucibles moment .

stop com or where every listen to podcasts. When IT comes to S M B marketing, reaching the right small and medium size businesses can be chAllenging into IT. S M B media labs gives you the power to do more by connecting with the small businesses that need you most with access to an audience of thirty six million, you can target effectively and at scale.

By leveraging insights from small business audiences, you can target businesses by industry size, maturity, location and more, and drive growth across new and existing channels like social, programmatic and C. T. V. Spend wisely and do more with audiences. Taylor, to your business, learn more and media labs, not into IT, not com.

Right back. It's been a couple of weeks now since samsung launched its new devices, the galaxy s twenty four, s twenty four plus and twenty four ultra, which means the virtually alson Johnson has had time to put all three of those phones through their pieces and she's published their reviews. They're on the verge that com, put them in the shower notes and like I said, post on the site with all the links you need.

It's wild to think that IT is only the first week of february, and we might have already seen the best android phone of twenty four, but I think that might be the case. Time on, as always, has done some of its usual upgrades here with Better screens and some design tweaks in a little bit of new camera hardware. But most of what's new here is A I.

There is so, so, so much A I in these phones. It's nuts. But does IT add up to anything? Or is IT all just another gic in samsung long, long line phone? X, like I said, Allison has tried at all, and she's here to enter that force.

Hi, elson. hello. Welcome out of samsung chaos. This is very exciting for you.

Thank you as the recent development, so i'm happy to be here.

This is a tough time because you basically had to take three different phones that are the same phone but different phones, and try to figure out how to like, make them make sense and also write something that is interesting to read about all of them, which is a difficult chAllenge .

yeah and the same chAllenge is like most phones lately, where the updates are just pretty incremental aside from galaxy A I, which is will get IT into be. But it's just an interesting dynamic looking at IT this year, like the ultra has always been the like, where's just going to throw everything in a phone? And for the past couple years, that has been like, this is great, like you guys are killing IT and then the the regular ones that s and as plus just sort of fut like there good they're good alternative if you're like OK with some song's take on things and you want a really good and red phone and that sort of the case this year, but it's like slightly different.

Okay, we're Better spoil where I was going with all this, but I can think of the opposite this year like so the ultra is still very much the kitten sink phone like IT is the same song est of samsung phones. And I mean that both as a compliment in an in, as always, with Samson. But to me, I got to the end of valuable reviews. And I was like, okay, for the first time in a few years, I actually think the base galaxy s twenty four is the best galaxy phone for most people right now, which I don't feel that has been true for. I don't know, at least the last few years, I feel like I would have always tried to talk people up and now i'm kind of like you get almost all the stuff in a slide bar size for seven hundred ninety nine dollars instead of twelve hundred and ninety nine dollars yeah with the base model like you, big win for the base model this year.

IT is is a big win for people who like smaller big phones because they're all big.

They're all big.

Yeah no, that sums up how I feel about them. And I guess I think of like the ultra just always kind of feels like it's in its own little atmosphere. It's like what phone do you compare IT to that has an s pen and twelve cameras.

You know it's kind of always felt to me like you sort of know if that's the thing you want and you want all that extra yeah what feels different this year is that nothing on the old tragedy feels like, oh yeah, totally see why this is worth the extra money because this is more money this year. It's twelve, ninety nine, just one hundred dollars more than last year. And yeah, all of the exciting new feature, like air quotes, that samsung's words, the A I are on all three phones, like with no difference. Citizen, how they perform any that in this phone, the regular as twenty four just feels like a good size and i'm happy is here yeah so okay.

lets look to this little IT because I think the first thing you pointed out to me right before we started recording is the actual physical object itself a, which is, again, I think I think that is sort of Carried through all three versions of the phone. Correct me. run.

But they made this thing. What seems to be a little, a little nicer. It's it's nicer to hold in the hand. Samsung has a long history of making just the slippy st. Phones on the face, the earth and and IT seems like they .

saw something at this time. Yeah, well, google, take that crown away. Like is the most slippery object.

This should be studied by sciences. I don't understand IT. Yeah no, I like Samson.

The ultra still has a has the flat screen this year, which like yeah you have an ice pen. You want a flat screen. You're like running the pen over the edge. That stakes still has a little bit of that like note design that s twenty four.

And as twenty four plus there are just going to say IT, like they are just straight up iphones in, that's fine, like they have the the flat edge as twenty three was still kind of a curve edge, still had kind of A I don't want to call IT a sam sung. Look, I had a different look to IT. It's not like a drastically different change, but I find IT more comfortable to hold when I go to pick IT up off the table.

IT doesn't like fly out of my hands. They look great. They feel great, I think, like, why reinvent the shape of a phone? Just go with what works.

I agree. I feel like the two things that have always driving me crazy. But some of these designs are either i'm holding into my hand, I kind of digs into your poem in a way that feels bad.

5.

and this is really my true slippery in this test. I'm holding the phone in my hand, and I go to put IT in my pocket. And there have been phones that in the motion of, like moving IT down to put her in my pocket, I have just thrown IT onto the ground. I got even drop IT like I sling shot out of my hand onto the ground.

Yeah, with prejudice. Yeah uh.

yeah. The pixel is maybe the worst at that in history, but that is like the the iphone is they found the right mix of like the flat is in the sort of rounded corners and IT just like IT feels like an object in a nice way. And I am glad the same time has landed red in the same place.

Yeah, my galaxy rain take is that phones over the next year are just gonna converge on that design like the pixel nine leaks have the flat edges like this is fine. Let's just steal IT. Let's embrace IT. We're going to go there. I think that's for the best.

honest. Yeah, it's like, there is that phase with laptops for everybody was like, what if they did weird stuff and they flipped around and move to the left and we just move the track pet over here and then everybody is like, oh, what if I just look like a laptop and we worried about other things and that is that is the correct .

answer yeah nobody is like, ah I wish my refrigerator looked cool in different like you just wanted know where stuff is one hundred percent .

so my first question with all same some phones is how samsung are these samsung funds? And I will say to samsung's credit, IT used to be horrific. I used to tell people, do not buy a samsung phone because IT will torture you with pop ups and duplicate apps and things you'll hate.

And I no longer feel quite that strongly, but I still think when you eye is a mess in certain ways. So how how samsung are these phones? This year?

There are like tolb ly, samsung, I you do. There is the like list of stuff I go through when i'm setting up as the sung phone and IT much longer than any other phone I use. You have to sort the APP jar. So apps are alphabetical instead of just like nonsense. Or there's .

ten .

million things in the quick menu settings. All that is still a reality. It's just like and this is kind of where I keep landing with like pixel versus same sung, is that you just kind of have to work forward a little harder with the same sung you put in the work ahead of time.

You'd disabled the pop up notification like sell me a new galaxy serious phone like I don't need that. I'm using the new galaxy serious phone. That was what your best .

lines in the review is opening up a galaxy s twenty four, setting IT up and getting a pop up saying, heard about the new galaxy twenty four every year. Like guys.

we're doing something wrong here every year. I will treasure that poa like there IT is yeah you can disable IT it's just if you don't IT IT comes for you yeah you can get to place where you can just live totally peacefully with IT. IT has very good things going for another iphone feature that they wisely stall is always on display that the world paper just kind of dims.

So you see that all the time, but you get those widgets too. So you have like your little calendar budget or the battery indicator or is that going to rain in the next hour? I love that. I give me all the information.

I think this is the thing about these phones that you are most wrong about, but that's okay. This is because I think the iphone always on display is bad and just makes me think my phone is on and that's stupid.

You're not alone. I hear that a lot. I'm going to a die on the hell.

It's listen to each their own. You're wrong. And so samsung, and that's fine and so is apple. I think the pixel all got IT right where it's just like I wanted know the time and like the little thing where the song is playing into that love that don't lead any more than that and just the thing where I kind of seems like I turned the brightest all the way down on my phone is not and always on .

display in naturally there's a settle in the sam song fun. You can turn that right off with just the wall paper parts so you can have a Normal always on display. But I think that is kind of the basic difference between like C.

M. Songs, philosophy and google is always like on the pixel you have at gLance and you don't you don't need to go instead of a bunch widget. It's just gonna you something on your homework reen or on the lock screen like got a calendar appointment coming up. Doesn't nail IT. Sometimes i'm like, oh, that would have been a useful thing to know, but it's just kind of gonna those things for you and see some songs like here are ten thousand settings you can mess with and you can get to a place where you get all that.

I wish samsung would dialing the baLance of the default there a little more, but I can really appreciate over time, especially as google has kind of worked down towards giving you less to do that. Part of the reason people like android is because IT is so much more customizable and samsung, its credit is like, listen, everything there is to do, we are going to give you a way to do.

And I actually think to something that the right approach, I wish IT made Better choices about how IT initially sets up the phone um and I ish there were some things that were less duplicative like I think you mentioned, they're basically like three different augmented reality search products on this font like that's bad. That's just bad. But I do appreciate the thing that samsung is like, look, do you want there to be six hundred and fifty things in the settings that you can touch? We have that for you.

I seriously, I think it's a good thing. People like that about rode, I think it's the right thing and they deliver IT. Yeah, there should just be a version of samsung phones that is like when you set IT up, it's like this, the easy way, the hard way.

yes. And you can pick you one like the easy. But yeah, so the thing on the ultra that really jumped out to me, I have basically two ultra specific questions. The first is the screen and IT seems like of the spec in the whole series. The biggest upgrade from the twenty four in the twenty four plus two, the twenty four ultra might be this new display was that you .

take away if I was putting my money down on these phones that's 出来 i would pay for for the ultra。 IT has a new gilla glass that is supposedly much more scratch resistance. I put my phone next to my keys.

It's bad. I always get those little like airline scratches without fail. I don't have a single one on old drug and it's only been it's a small sample size, but so far so good.

But you're pretty brutal on phones like your your review period is not easy.

Yeah, I I don't have a case. My kid will touch IT he's got like being about fingers, the works so yet there's that um which is promising and the antigen are coding, which is just it's a little bit like magic like it's not like some brain. New technology is just literally an interview coding on the phone screen, but you hold IT up against another phone outside. And if the ultra gets really bright, so you have that working for you and IT just cuts the glare way down and you can you sort of prepares have to like that the phone, when you look at IT outside, you're like, oh, I can see this just fine like it's almost as god is just in my house yeah.

that's huge. And I think glare is one of the things we've all gotten used to on our phones. Like I was thinking about this, reading your reviews that i've gotten used to the thing now where you kind of learn how to block the sun with your body as you're using your phone and you start to keep IT down here, and you like lead hunch over IT to not have glare. But once you don't notice IT, and like once it's gone, that's a huge change and is like for especially things like taking pictures. And if you have to hold an angle and you your sort of looking down off access at your phone like antigay is a bigger deal, then IT seems in a lot, I think.

which is prety cool. Yeah, I liked IT Better than most of the A I features.

We're going to get to those in in one second. yeah. But the other thing that I am curious about with the ultra specifically is this zoom trade off that time.

So made they went from ten x zoom on the lens, and then IT was digital zoom in between. So if you want to, like five x IT was a zone to the opposite when I was a five. excEllent.

But you can digital zoom to ten nex. I am deeply suspicious of this change because digital zoom is a lie that we tell ourselves is just crowing. What did you find is this is was this the right trade?

Was a throning trade? Slightly less evil version of digits. Zum is like actual crop into the middle of the sensor that they're doing.

And that's what's happening now at ten X. I was a big fan of the ten x lanes. I thought I was great. I was so much fine. So I was really of him to see that the more I have, the more I get IT like five acts is more there's just more utility kind of every day you can kind of take a portrait, someone if they're across the room, you're not taking you a portrait with ten x lies like that's true.

Ten x is kind of a party trick in a way, five axis like a thing. You might do anything that's interesting .

and it's a higher resolution sensor is actually little bigger than old telephone. All these things going for IT and strong is like so don't worry that the quality titanics is like actually just fine and that's like kinds true if you don't like I pixel peep, it's kind of appointments exercise. But I go there I think the detail captures about the same, but you just see the for the little tiny lens falls apart. You think that there's a little romantic and it's like that in the one percent of like what anybody should care about, IT is totally fine for just about anything else.

And I suppose I can get behind the idea that you're trading really good ten zoom and mediocre five ex zom for really good five exam mediocredito s um yeah in real life that is probably .

a decent trade.

O I just they said they will go even a temika look Better because IT has more meggie as and like. I bet that's a lie and unhappy to know that I know yeah so okay, let's look at the A I stuff because I think that's kind of the point of these funds, right? And I think my sense of your review was basically there's a ton of the eyes stuff here.

You tested a lot of IT, but i'm curiously for you, not as a phone reviewer, but just as like a person who has a phone, what of these A I features feels like I would actually be a thing you would use in everyday life and leave the camera out. I'll come back to the camera to set. But of the like, there's the translation on a phone call, there's the record self. There's a bunch stuff like what feels like IT actually could insert itself into your life.

The thing I see them as the most useful that I don't I don't currently have a useful IT, but it's kind of nice is there is the translation stuff. So that's where you call someone and you can turn on this live translator and it'll just you talk and IT speaks for you and the other person that translates back and forth. I call the song or web reviewer and SHE speaks japanese.

And her take on IT was like, IT gets the just of IT, right? If your conversation is like kind of transaction all you like, I need to make a reservation. Or when I was sure it's going to do those things, fine. SHE tried to tell me her cat was eating her chair, and IT said that he was eating the chair. Confusing, very funny. But I think that kind of wear a lot of these I features are you like actually more useful than not to have that there as long as you're not relying on IT as like, yeah this is going to perfectly translate, you know, whatever I want to say to this other person and or you're not expecting like I want you to summarize a page of notes and you're just going to blindly be like, well, my notes summary, my AI summaries that this so I must be true. It's just kind of like a good starting point.

That's where I see IT. yeah. And I think with a lot of this stuff, the sort of don't rely on this too much footnote is a useful one.

But I think you said at one point of one is like there's no way in which this is worse than not having IT. So so i'll take IT. Yeah, which is fair. And I think the chAllenge of some of these phones for me now is samsung wants you to buy these phones for the A I features, right? And google increasingly want you to buy these phones for the A I features.

And I think on the camera, which we're going to get to in just a second, there are compelling cases to be made there that A I is letting you do genuinely cool, new, like worth getting this phone over another phone sets of things. I don't know that I see any of that here that it's like none of these strike me as a tire er over another device if that makes sense. Like nice to have.

You'll probably use them if you're there. Like the recorder is a cool thing and i've always loved the pixel record, but i've never bought a pixel because of the pixel record. Do you know? I mean, does any of the AI stuff feel like IT clears that? Like this is why you would buy this over something else bar.

I don't know if we quite there. I think maybe with a small asters for the pixel on the like face swap stuff, which we all have you know feelings .

about .

but that's when that people I talk to her like not online you know I like I saw this pixel phone, doesn't this thing i'm like, yeah actually it's it's really useful.

And like people see the utility for IT again, there's a lot of A I like camera and non camera that I just sort of feel like, is this hoping IT like is anyone going to use this like the especially the chat ash staff words, like, i'll write something but you know, puts them a mogi in IT or make IT sound professional or casual. Like I I like right a text and think to myself, like, should I use this right? No, I have.

You have no reason to try IT right, right? The photo stuff is interesting. I think it's it's at a place where is a little more compelling to people and samsung take on generate A I photo editing is interesting yeah how compare .

contra a bit to what the pixel is doing because the underlying models are there are mostly googles, right? So in theory, it's dealing with the same underlying technology. But what is same sung doing differently from what we've seen on the.

Yeah, so you kind of have the interface for the tools and they're like a very similar you go into the separate kind of editing pain of like you're doing AI and you can select an object and move IT or raise IT. That's kind of the C M. On pixel and sam sung, I will say though.

by the way, for anyone who has not yet read thousands review of the s twenty four, twenty four plus the funniest thing in that the review is a picture that you took. I think what of your of your husband's .

ARM raped over you have yeah to of the scene I did this on the pixel in the same sung. The pixel just kind of tried to like fill in the background like there's a couch here sam song was like, you want a new ARM made out of pillows previous for good thing of ever seen and it's so cursed and it's now on the webs. It's on the verge. Dom forever.

It's good. So that's here for but I do you think you yeah no.

that kind of something that up because like I think the pixel in like what is actually january and they are running on same google models. The pixel is are more prone to be like, okay, you want to fill in the background here. IT doesn't always look super great. Sometimes it's really good, sometimes it's not. But the same sung phone, for whatever reason, is very eager to throw something else .

in there with such samsung .

energy I love really is yeah, like you, I like to lamp on A A table. And I tried to take out and differently at IT can not what I want in IT all.

So what's behind this? Another lap.

probably just infinite lof slake is so strange. Yeah, it's seem sung energy. The one we talked to a bunch about .

on the version when this launched was the ability to take any video and make IT into a slow motion video. And now I got like very in his feelings about how this is creating frames that don't exist. What was your experience of actually using this thing in in life? How did I feel .

so I don't quite have the same physical ho hang up with bit. I'm like, okay, sure, this is fine. I can slow IT down the video. I can only swing.

I think that's where most people are. It's great that the only emails we got after that episode, I think most people agree that's the .

consensus yeah when so when we tried IT out just initially in the the kind of product demo time where and I work like this is really impressively like that looks pretty convincing. And then you kind of throw more um complexity at IT and IT falls a part a lot of a little bit.

You can see where it's like, you think sort of a jokey and the one I did was that you make IT honor swing and you know, he pull him back and let them go and it's like, so cute and he's just like overjoyed but then he's like, the of the swing are just kind of like flicker in an out of existence interest. And it's trying to decide with the the mulch on the playground should look like in every one of those frames where IT doesn't exist. So I just kind of like looks really worked and kind of is a little distracting.

Like IT makes the much looks like it's moving looking at the video like they have you ever seen the thing where there's there's just like a billion ants altogether? IT looks like sort of a solid thing, but it's just like turning yeah, that's what IT makes the most look like. It's a little unsettling.

Ely a, so I take something very cute in fine and makes IT just a little like cursed.

Yeah, the one A, I think I forgot to ask you about with the circle to search thing. And this is something that is not technically a samsung only feature. It's also on the pixel now.

And it's kind of you can like hack your way into something very similar just using google's overall multi search stuff. But I think this is very cool and strikes me as the kind of thing in general that is like just a good feature, is also good reason. Have an s pen like for the ultra.

But you've tested this a bunch. I have not been able to use IT at all. What's been the verdict on circle search?

Yeah, I think it's something that i'm gonna miss when I don't have IT. It's not it's not like you're constantly i'm like i'm going to cirl everything state in this instagram st when you do need IT and you kind of have to unlearn the old way of doing things like I was texting with a friend and they mentioned the name of the restaurant where you're going to meet that in my instinct to like go open google maps and titan and search in and I had a backtrack. I was like, no, no, no. I I can just like highlight this and you know you don't have to leave the air in, just pops up with your everything you were gonna for in google maps yeah this how we should have been using our phones like this feels so much more intuitive and I think i'm gonna miss IT when it's non option yeah it's the .

kind of thing that seems weird until you do about four times and then it's like of this makes sense yeah IT is insane that I have to copy text in a text message close this APP open another APP go to the search bar type on that and his search just to get the map for the direction that this person at me like that, a bad user experience that we're just all used to like.

This is the thing about A I in general that I think is kind of exciting, is just finding ways to shortcut all of that stuff because they can start to figure out, oh, this is an address. There's really only one thing you want to do with an address. Let's just do that for you. I think that's very cool.

Yeah like don't write me an email like shakespeare wrote IT just like, give me those shortcuts. Toa, do the ground work for me.

please. exactly. Okay, last thing. And then let you go. One of the big promises and on me here is seven years of soft sport, which I think in the abstract is very cool. Google also said seven years, right, so that this is now like the gold standard. I think that's very cool. Is IT realistic if I am buying in us twenty four to assume that i'm so going to want this phone in seven years, like the big spect missing for me is the cheats charge, which I think is whatever seven years from now, you'll probably want Better wireless charging than this phone gives you. But even looking past that, like is IT realistic for this funerary any phone to say I am feasibly going to keep this thing and it's going to be useful to me for seven years.

For the vast majority of people, they're gonna trading in their phone before that, especially with the old try sort feels like buy that phones on a quicker upgrade cycle because they want the next big thing with all the.

with all the stuff, the the diagram of s pen users and people who only update seven years, I don't think is huge.

Not a big one there, but I know I look at like my parents or like blesses heart my husband with his iphone ten r yeah they just wanted not shop work phone. They're like I hate that I don't want to deal with varion doing a whole bunch of things ji mind track like I just want my phone. I want to work for a long time and I think that's fair.

I think i'm son has a good track record in respect. They've sort of been pushing forward with more years of support and they were doing Better than google for a hot second, google cut wise. So i'm going to see that I think it's it's probably gonna a difference for a minority, but I think it's important.

yeah. And I guess so I do like the idea that you should be able to decide to upgrade your phone before your phone forces you to upgrade IT, right? Like I think I think that a good thing.

And I think seven years is probably two years longer than even most sort of Normal people who keep their phones partly just because like battery health, right? Like it's yeah it's just going to get to the point where your phone doesn't charge for very long anymore. But yeah then at least i'm in a position where I get to say I want a new phone rather than my phone being like I did get a new phone.

yes. So s twenty four seems unusually, is like the default android phone does IT stay there this year. Do you think? Like is this the phone of twenty twenty four in the android world?

I think so. And I when I reviews the pixel eight in the eight pro, I was really impressed and I was kind of like i'm going to have to really come up with something and I think they did. There's an asterisk.

There's you know if samsung software is very unappealing to you, you just want something a little more turn key. You don't everyone to think about whether bixby exist or the pixel is a great option. And and there are things, I think that are compelling about IT.

You know if you do like the face swap that's there for you, the way the assistant like processes natural language is a little Better than on the other day. On the C. M are galaxy phones. So there are still reasons to look at the pixel all. But I think, yeah, I think sam son keeps keeps the crown fair enough.

right? We're going to do this many more times, but i'm especially i'm going to play you that clip when we do the pix on nine. Whenever that comes up this year, work to see how that holds up. But I appreciate you. thanks.

So thanks. Thank you. right? We got to take one more break.

and then we will be back to answer a question for the verdict outline.

我 不敢 打。

Hey, it's lee from decoder with the detail. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series, diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech and hire away co founders? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that. You'll hear all that and more this month.

I'm decoder with the light presented by strike. You can listen to decoder whatever you get your podcast support for the verge cast comes from the home deep boo. Hey, it's almost the holidays.

And whether you're planning to travel or host, it's always good to have that extra layer of safety and security to help ease your mind. And now with help from the home deepo, you can stay connected and protected with the convenience of smart home security products. The home depot offers a wide selection of products that afford you easy control and automation of your home.

With top smart home brands like ring, google, wise and more, from smart cameras with forecasts, surveilLance to doorbell that can be Operated from your smart phone, the home deep boo has at all, whether you an expert or new to smart homes tech, the home depot can help you find what works for you and your home, visit the home debo online or in store, and purchase your smart home products to give some piece of mind this holiday season, because smart home at the home debo support for the show comes from service. Now the A I platform for business transformation, you've heard the big hype around A I. And the truth is A I is only as powerful as the platform is built into service.

Now is the platform that puts A I to work for people across your business, removing friction and frustration for your employees, super charging productivity for developers, providing intelligent tools for your servants to make customers happier, all built into a single platform you can use right now. And that's why the world works with service now. This is service now outcome. Splash A I for people to learn more.

Welcome back. Let's get to the hot time. As always, the number is eight, six, six, verge one one, and the email is verge cast at the verge chat comp.

We love all of your questions. It's been so fun hearing about everybody's vision pro experiences, and we're going to try to keep putting that stuff on the show as much as we can. We don't want to overload you with vision pro stuff, but we think this things fascinating this week surprise, we have a vision pro question.

We're going going to get to a bunch more of these, like I said, including your experiences, which I love hearing about on friday. But I thought this one is interesting. Actually may think a lot IT comes from then.

I think maybe stand. I think it's then either way, if I get a name wrong here, hey there, this is from seven Frances. I got a vision pro I can in my iphone camera APP today.

And I think that I wants me to start shooting in special video. Should I do that even though I might not buy a vision pro ever? Can I shoot everything in special pro already? Or should I wait and shoot Normal video now? Only tell me out.

Thank you. okay. So i've got back and fourth on this question a bunch since I first heard IT. And I think the answers, no, I think at this point, if you have no particular intention of getting a heads set, the answers is kind of no special. Video has some really neat stuff going on, especially the way it's integrated with the headset.

If you just shoot IT on your iphone, you're kind of just capturing three the video, and that's all well and good. The vision pro has that neat way of presenting IT where IT has those kind of misty borders around IT. So IT looks a little like you're looking through a portal rather than just looking at a video.

But the other thing about the vision pro is that actually it's a great way to just watch regular video. And you can get four k video off of the iphone. You can get four case special video. Special video is huge. It's about twice the size of a Normal N D P video.

So I think at this point, if you're not anticipating getting this soon, if you want to use special video as like the second thing you shoot you like, i'm gonna take a video of my kids baseball game, take the regular video first and take IT in the highest quality you can, and then go back and get the special video. It's a fun sort of neat thing, but I wouldn't treat that as your main media capture situation. That said, I do think special video is coming in the sense that I think everyone agrees that this is a format that is going to be around for a long time.

Meta is now supporting spatial video on the quest headsets. Apple is obviously all in on the vision pro, both as a captured thing for special video and is a way to watch IT back. I think this format is real, so it's a fun thing to start playing around with.

I don't think it's like the third video of eight years ago that kind of went nowhere and now you don't really even have a way to play IT. I don't think special video is going to die, but I also don't think it's gonna be the main way you can see media anytime, particularly soon, especially if you're not going to be a headset person. So I would say start goofing around with IT have some fun but don't feel the need to like switch your devolve settings and start shooting everything in special because 4k video will do pretty well even in a handset， right?

That's IT for the verge custody. Thank you to everyone who is on the show, and thank you, as always, for listening. There's a whole lot more from this conversation at the verge that com. We'll put some link in the show notes.

All the links you need are going to be on the verge that com the verge ACM flash verge test that you can find everything there's a news verse I good website as always, if you have thoughts, questions, feelings or s pen uses you really want to tell me about, you can always email us at verge cast at the verge dot com, or call the hotline eight, six, six, verge one one. Tell us your vision experiences, tell us which galaxy phone you, but tell us all of your feelings of that, everything happening and take rate. Now we do hotline question on this episode every week, which again is now on tuesday.

So you more coming. This show is produced by andre marino, liam James in wilpon. Verge cast is verge production in part of the box media podcast network. Mei alex, I will be back on friday to talk about google chaos, all the A, I, stuff going on and lots more. I'll see you then rocking.

Support for this episode de comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud. Hey, it's lee. From decoder with the detail, we spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you listen to you right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially space? Why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech and hire away cofounder? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems you'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with the light pol presented by strike. You can listen to the coder whatever you get your podcast.