How much MacBook is enough MacBook?
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I very chest flagship podcast, the best printers twenty twenty four.

This printer, small business office, home use color yeah .

label printing, that's my part, but that's my favorite sort of evolution of the S O S. Fam is the amazon product name. That is just all of the things.

It's everywhere now yeah yeah the everything on amazon is like sixty words long now yeah.

we just Better though, like the way they named phones samsung or the way they've named products on amazon's website.

It's it's samsung. It's one thousand. I want to be clear, samsung, the samsung naming conventions and in fact, most tech product naming conventions are now like performance art. Yeah there is like some words, galaxy, a number, some other letters fine .

they just think it's like.

guess yeah they're just like, here's some ideas we had, you know and then what the seo spam is just all this technology and all this ai and all these algorithms and like, what's the best way to win in them? Just shovel all the words in the title field and .

then off to the side there's like SONY, who is just like, what do you like? Sixteen numbers and letters together.

Anything very good, very good. And all together in the studio, David, here, here, out transit here. Hello, it's been a minute since we were on the show at the same time yeah IT, let alone all in the same room at the .

same time yeah with how are yours vacations?

They are good work, very good. I drank a lot of miami vices, which is when you put a decree in the panic, a lot of pinking, right? incredible. That's a lot of sugar, a lot and nine.

but you're in the fruit. So you're getting your writing .

and see that's what you really want. IT was good, but we know when you travel the small trial of her schedule of five world schedule.

we were in bed by seven.

yeah, we were in bed by nine and we were up at six in hammer by eleven, like a five old, the way this might be the ideal way to live my life, yeah, on this. And then I immediately was like, no.

I especially when you're on vacation though, like being the first one up has real ramifications. The world is your always for, like three hours at the resort before anybody else .

picks up the best of, like the best breakfast.

How much IT was good?

I I mopped.

You moved. yeah. Did you go on vacation as a small Victoria?

And pretty much, pretty much.

i'm going to do like a ARP.

No, I really, I really need to use some mopping. So I did a lot of mopping. I really, my goal was to like, see if I could become one with my couch. Oh.

for like a whole week, an important kind of fiction.

Like, I thought I was great. My dog did not agree. He, he was very frustrated with my vacation, but I had a Better.

great time. Did you want you touch?

Time is watched. Yeah, yeah. I I saw girls.

five, five ever, very good.

wants me to watch the show. I'm just going to do IT. It's it's straight out of the brain of tina fa. So like if you think thirty rocket is funny, you will think those five five is funny. And I think three rocks are very funny.

And it's been a lot of time making fun of, like, a very specific neighborhood in broke lin, but I used to live in.

So i'm like, yes.

good.

I went through the whole three body problem with netlist. Like I open netflix as like i'm to watch the show. I watch the whole thing.

And IT wasn't good. I don't. And I like this is I had the netlik problem again. I need this closed that I made a netflix show. Our netflix show is great.

but it's got .

the future up, lisa. Um but I know I was like that was the thing I did because we want a vacation. Came back to me like several days left like post vacation clutch move and as I watch watching television yeah course amazing yeah and I like the show is it's fine yes that's why I I switched .

IT off and turned on the new walking dead show and I like, that's just a doral. It's two people being like, what do we kill a bunch of zombies and make out? And I was like .

this four people are .

going to say.

I did one thing about three body problem. They came through and they and like, this book has been up for million years.

What's the .

problem? It's fine anyhow. It's it's a weird spring time week yeah if there is a lot of news, the past couple of weeks, the government and the tech companies are just doing the thing. And then this week, everyone on string break.

I think it's literally true like .

everyone is like bridge god to stop the fighting. Everyone go drink miami vice. We will come back. We will get back right back .

to IT after spring. Now on the flip side where now what four weeks away from the beginning of like developer conference season yeah so everybody is out of filing legal briefs and into planning for lake weird A I product announcements. And this is sort of the small dollar ms.

In the midnight, the quiet week where we saw them outside, getting a beautiful tour of wall street with all of the other high schoolers.

lovely.

Well, yeah, this is the new york visit week. Yes, one's dc because we want to.

The rate was was Cherry blossoms came. And just every thirteen old in amErica went to the little in morial on the same day of that this week.

where they, we, the virgins officers, are in the financial, which, which is very old. There is unch old stuff you can look at. And this is the .

week where they're all here. There are stuff time.

Cook is like George rushing ing out hammer in this bar. That's a real thing he thinks about all time. But there's there's a lot of some talk about David has structured the show into three lightning rounds, responsable lightning rounds, which no one has yet to sponsor. We get a lot of emails from people. They are like, i'll pay some .

money yeah promises don't pay.

The bill's friends .

hit the best or or leave me.

We're going to figure this out. I promise we will figure this out. But if you want a large company, we're good at taking a lot of money. Yeah like there's a whole floor of people, this company who's like a huge amount of money. We know what to do when i'm like someone wants to pay a twenty .

box there like I don't know .

cash we should be hand daughter but the home .

we deliver is like hot podcast.

like nothing happy anyway, three lighting rounds we should start with. We did have big review this week here, a few weeks afford come out. We hired a new laptop where you in analyst, uh, her SHE, we got up to speed cranes. We like, let her do to think pad. And then we're like.

Michael care, get IT done yeah. And he did. He had a lot of feelings about the macbook air in three, fifteen and thirteen inch, because they both came out and they are pretty similar.

And he was like, they are good mac books. They got a little faster. And then he was very upset because they had a gabs RAM standard. And and I I tend to agree with her, but I know some people on this podcast.

well, yes, I mean, we're going to fight about .

that for many hours.

K IT brought me such great joy to watch someone else come and go through the same thing that all of us have been through with the mac books over the years, which is this is very good, is probably the best laptop you can buy. IT is a tiny, tiny bit Better than the last one. And slavery, more expensive in apple, really wants you to buy something much more expensive.

Do I give that in nature? And nine is like the internal question of the macbook air is like it's probably the best laptop IT could probably is kind of annoying. What do I do with that? Yeah and it's just like it's nice to see someone else go through this very intense process because the story the macro are is like IT IT rules like IT is IT is pretty hands down the best all around laptop the planet.

And yet it's a pretty small upgrade over the last one that has a bunch of the same deficiencies as the last one. And they desperately, desperately, desperately want you to spend twenty five hundred dollars on the laptop and not one thousand dollars on the laptop. You are very good at getting you from one to the other.

That's what I did is IT. Ah well, I went with a back process.

You you let yourself get specked up.

I got specked up. I like like that that feeling from from the early days of the macbook air where you you couldn't get the air. You had to get a point if you wanted power. I was like, I know, I know, I I know I could be fine with an air, but I haven't air for work. This is really like it's important for me with a whole china.

I can neither have a pro to run all micro me tabs or I can have an air to run all of my chrome tab.

And crusader kings pray like IT plays IT beautiful.

Uh, so what you talking about is directly related to the eggs RAM situation, which is you settle down to buy the slap top. The base configuration should be amazing. The based on figuration compared to to any other based on figuration, potentially the best Aaron latet, like that's a the real thing you can make an and then you're like, but if I put a exam in this IT will last for two years and then I will die and i'll do this again so I should put sixteen or thirty two gigs around into IT and then you know like I should have some time to IT because of now it's the last long time and then you are quickly oh, I should just buy a mac pro, just spent slightly even more money and I could just .

have a fourteen off the shelf. You don't have to worry about somebody like customizing IT and then adding a little shipping time to IT.

Just get yeah because what does that you go from uh eight to sixteen caves of RAM that's two hundred box. You go from the base storage which is two fifty six to five twelve that's another two hundred box.

So already you have just turned your thousand, thousand and eleven hundred laptop in this case into a fifty hundred laptop at which point you're like, well, maybe i'll just get the fifteen and because it's that much more expensive yeah and then you get then you're up to there and then IT is I mean, that is so perfectly calculated how to get you to buy like the mid spec macbook? It's just unbelievable. Be beautiful.

yes. And IT is not the computer anyone needs. Like I truly do not believe the premise that if you buy eight is already in the last two, two years and IT won't work.

I think like. If you are a person who like really heavily uses your computer, sure. I think if you're gonna spend money on one additional spec, RAM is always this.

I believe that. I believe firmly that for most people, for most uses, the base configuration of the macbook are storage RAM. Everything is fine, crazy craze, so much computer.

but not enough.

Yeah, this was trying to understand is because like you said this and he was like, just lobby a bomb into chat in the office.

Like, yeah that .

yeah I resisted. Like telling anybody that you said that you like you like yeah I believe eight giggs and every David, what are doing? And is that because we're all people who use our laptops a lot and always have a vitali tabs open that, that we feel that need for the RAM? I mean.

that's part is is .

IT like I verge.

I think it's two things. I think the half of IT is what you just described. I think the other half is we are all literally professionally trained to be sensitive to our computers being slow. And then I look at like my mom, who is on a nine year old ipad, and like, doesn't notice that is a problem IT just works fine SHE taps the thing SHE waited a couple of seconds and that opens. And like doing, how long took to open mom and share a great time and just open I H I think most people don't spend this much time thinking about how long they are tab to take to him as video. And maybe they should, and I think they argued .

should for a eleven hundred just going to throw back your vision pro criticism for eleven hundred dollars. Being like this computer is a little slow when it's the fastest.

but it's not slow.

That spot is immediately as well. So the argument .

to gig .

argument is that the S S, D is so fast the swapping tune from virtual memory using the state of the art blob above that apple .

is state of your.

uh, is in perception. This is the argument.

This is the argument. And on the new one, apparently the storage is much faster. So that argument might be closer to true. Yeah, the argument is wrong. Like the .

storage is still slower than the RAM. IT might be very fast, but it's all sort in the rap. And so when you hit the swap, what you can do really easily in a acqua red.

i'm going to be swapping now let's see.

Ah what do you do gone into .

the activity monitor?

O yeah I don't know if you yet. Some like weird utility David is the prior of installed of swap often has weird .

you too but I have had the swap.

Yes, it's just like .

happens if you go to memory it'll tell you down at the bottom swap use, sorry.

keep going, sorry revision, open activity monitor, click on memory .

is how .

to .

yeah i'm saying, is that the argument? And at this point in twenty twenty four, not a good argument. They should just bump up to sixteen days around the center. And then I think the computer will be .

a amazing I I do agree with that. I I think that would be Better if everybody had sixteen. I think it's absurd that apple charges two hundred dollars to go from eight to sixteen when that RAM doesn't cost anywhere .

near most enduring. Sm, oh yeah.

mark used to that. The hacked was.

you'd buy IT with the garbage RAM, and then you just upgraded as soon as you got here.

you do the thing .

where you lish IT up the keyboard and just you're done. And now they're like, no, you will pass two .

hundred dollars or swap and suffer anyhow, I say great computer. It's like the base storage of the iphone or the base storage of eycks. D I was like, how much is just enough to annoy into paying us more?

Oh no, that's real. Uh, but how much when was IT that you switch your film to complex .

and ages ago, how is that going? A fine. Because I bought.

I got a lot of sixteen and gaga RAM chrome books running out there.

Yeah, I bought only one chrome book. okay? He was the google.

What was the fancy one? The thousand thousand? No was before the well.

there was the chrome book pixel that was the the sk one.

I'm literally gooding bought my mom a chrome book because I might be the only and I just get about our chromo pixel. In twenty sixteen, OK was a thousand dollars. IT has a core I seven in like sixteen gigs of RAM and IT is just .

rocked .

wall because that was so overpowered for its time. Now it's a little underpowered. Run crime my twenty fifteen.

I like such daming of crime. It's not great. Twenty sixteen, i'm like, barely keep .

up at my twenty I, C, which is done now. Oh, it's over. wow. It's like the fans are just like on all the time. But that lasted as long as did almost ten years, thirty two gigs. If I have one piece of vice for buying a mac, which just loaded up, especially because I started in loaded up with rain at the beginning because you can't fix IT, you can't upgrade IT everything else you'll be fine.

But over time, I do agree that I also think two hundred and fifty six cakes of story, unless you do a lot of media, like if you if you just take photos on your phone and upload them to google photos and that your photo strategy two hundred and fifty .

six is plenty I I disagree, ed, I know you do well. And then i'm saying this is someone who has a server at home to offload, oh, my big food like .

a super Normal workflow for regular people that everybody doesn't.

But even with that, i'm hitting that two fifty six like the the laptop bat now has five twelve because I was tired of putting the two eighty six and being like, uh, I have to go to lead this game that I played two times a year but I really want to have what's using up on your storage its games.

Okay, I mean, fair. Then I i'll add that to media that's totally fair. Games are enormous. This you down the two games down you've got in two. But absent those two things, there's very little you're going to do that's going to take up that much story.

That's true. My mom has like a hundred yeah, fine. yeah. And two.

three is six, literally, unless you do media, which is huge and especially now that could got every photo of the iphone is in order now. So like get as much as you can. If that's a thing that you care about, you're going like be in light room doing stuff, which is another case to get more rim. But if you're just I firmly believe that most people buy laptops downloaded by brothers and at the end, uh, that is that is ninety eight percent of most people's laptop experience now and like maybe office and for that, the base can fix fine. I so firmly believe that.

And he just found at least fourteen thousand and one of sixteen games around in .

five hundred of seven and then at that point when I get the fifteenth yeah and then there yeah .

then you're just had a fourteen pro ing you the fourteen problem. Actually.

I thought the biggest takeaway from junia's review is that the m two is still for sale. And that's a pretty good deal if you can speak IT up.

which is funny, because this was also in a lot as the story of the m two review was that the m one is so far sale um and now I mean, you can buy the m1 at walmart for what is the six hundred nine box do R T。

When I was on vacation, there was like a furious amount of like conversation about whether walmart was blowing at old stock or whether apple that was gonna a make more and ones and if they are going to make more.

And once, yes, that to be I don't know that we've ever actually had that officially confirmed, but that is every of evidence we suggested that.

that unclear. IT seems like going for a while and it's not necessarily ily like they are making more in once they just have a time of star. No, they don't.

That's not how apple works, literally. Apple pioneer the idea of not having where no.

no, no, I mean have tons of extra stuff around. That's how we got the iphone S E. The iphone S E came because they had a ton of the the the cases, right?

Yeah sure. Having having parts, they're very good making very cheaply .

yeah like like they had a ton of those macbook air, original macbook air casings, right?

Time cook is like, what are you doing guys and surprise chain guys .

send them them to walmer.

I think they are still making them. I think they ve projecting out their demand. They are still making them. We have that quote from walmart in one of our stories where the warmer guy is like we're going to have these first zone as people want them.

which has to be I think it's a huge warehouse like Stephen bilberry style warehouse. And tim, tim doesn't to think about IT. You don't bring you up around, tim, but walmart t like.

i'll take care this for your time that apple made the thirteen inch macbook pro with optical drive for five or six years after they stop selling. Liam, thank you. liam.

wow. yeah. no.

This is what I think is true is I think it's less that apple has a warehouse's ll of them somewhere and more that apple with that wedges designed in particular, is now yet like unbelievable economies of scale yeah and to just throw that away like to get out of all the tooling that's really expensive in the processes that has been up to do this stuff. Like there is a group of people who want those and will pay that Price.

And what I think is most surprising is not that they still existence, that we will keep making them, but that apple is interested in selling a seven hundred dollar laptop at walmart. Like to me, that's a much bigger change than anything else going on here is just this is not a thing apple has ever done before. And it's like there's a world in which you would argue IT feels like a company running scared, trying to make money wherever they can. I don't really think it's that, but IT is a definite like strategy change .

in a way that I think is very focused on luxury. The whole thing like not .

walmart.

take that very well. Let me that's what I think yeah um that's all switch up uh but yeah like apple is very well known for being all about luxury warmer less so .

yeah yeah they just do different jobs. And like if if apple wanted to figure out how to sell the best five hundred dollar computer, IT probably could have IT probably could have done that.

Thirty five years ago they put that computer in walmart, uh was called the ipad IT has been in walmart the entire time. Yeah uh my two year um you know in. Experience for Robert was the only store.

I spent a lot of time contemplating what electronics products are in mart in cats school, new york. Um it's iphones, all the iphones, including the press and IT was ipad and then they just didn't put the max there. And now they have one mac and I think the ipad mac, a seven hundred R M, one macbook air, the wedges design in whenever I pads you can get a walmart apple just like that. You want to laptops like good to be honest about what people want to buy here. Yeah they want laptops.

people. We're going to go in looking for an m one macbook air and there's going to be a sales person who's like, wouldn't you rather have a twelve point nine and ipad pro with a magic keyboard in an apple pencil that fourteen hundred dollars all in and so was going to leave with just like a bag full of nonsense and they are like.

I just want that loves, but not a walmart. There wouldn't be a sales person at walmart.

true. That was, that was, look, I did a lot of shopping, and in my two years of ten words, living there was not a lot of those people. That was not a thing.

But I obtain is a to connect the dots between the two of you. Yeah, the apple running scared, maybe less scared. Apple finding every dollar you can find right now squazing is weird. This is the company that gets rid of its old products yeah like this is the company is like we're onna canabal ze ourselves and now they're selling three generations of the same laptop. It's weird.

Yeah it's very different and IT IT changed kind of quietly without yeah like nobody made noise about IT. But now you look in is like IT IT Operates like a very different company that I did even just a few years ago.

Yeah and I can try put a killing the extraordinary waste stupid car project. Yes, uh, this like the pressure on the APP store, the anger on the APP store. And I trust stuff and we're going to sell more products at more Price points than ever.

like all in a line. Yeah, yeah, they saw that. Like money is not infinite.

Yeah we should for them .

historical and but it's .

just where .

it's just a weird moment for that company.

And then there was that I think he was a real story this week that apple is now working on personal robots. no. Yeah, it's like OK guys sure that go good.

Cmm.

we should mention, by the way, like my apple, they roll out prisoners that just like float around with you this week, vision pro, we should watch the video, the videos on our various video platforms, uh, in the west and the and they just don't seem happy with each other. And I have not wanted to put the vision for back on since I handed out I was talking .

to west earlier because, like, I would go face time, some friends and you really good, i'll talk to you later. good.

It's like the right use.

the visual that strong .

use of thirty five hundred years yeah seven and ten.

Being an amazing gadgets and you ve got one here ending like the .

round oh my god. So Chris welch, if most of you are not in in the verge office, so you don't get to see case as often as I as as often as I do. But ah he's had this suitcase at his desk for a while now. And in the suitcase I always be, what is that be like?

It's, it's, it's A T, V.

And he finally reveal the suitcase. And what I quickly learned was that everyone has been seeing this L G suitcase TV on tiktok and so a lot of people are like, oh, Chris finally said, it's pretty okay. It's time to get IT. But really but I I want to be clear, you probably don't need the two wolves hundred dollar ten .

A P twenty .

seven entitled in a in a suitcase. It's cool as health though .

IT is very cool like.

like, like he talked about in his review. IT just hits the gadget spot where you just like, yeah, want this. It's folly in click y.

it's a little outlandish. It's a touch screen for no reason. I SAT on the form paid solitary for twenty five minutes.

Yeah, you just can do that because it's it's fun. yeah. And I just really, really enjoy the thing. And I think that needs, no, doesn't need to exist in the world. But also like, well, maybe I do need one for my bedroom because I can't figure out where to put a TV.

Maybe I just have A A suit and a little suit. The answers is a suit.

K, on my bed. go. Ceiling projector .

is .

a fan up there.

D, of the fan I saw, it's yes, of course, in some like grand booth, like a combo plater light fan projector.

There we go, then i'm done.

That's what i'm going to obviously, when you try to fan on the whole thing, like very good, very good. But I can just .

said about this TV is whether I want IT to be much Better or much cheaper. That was part of me is like, give me the ten p screen and give me twenty seven inches, make IT five hundred box. And like, will I buy this thing and take IT on indication with me three times a year? Like, yeah I pray what uh or am I like I this becomes, you know the the like basement TV for all intents and purposes. And I want you to be Better than this. And i'm so torn between those two things because twelve hundred dollars for what this thing actually is.

is too much.

because of you have now described wanting this TV to keep IT stationary in a room. You like the basement TV just like.

buy A T V. No, I just like.

buy A T V. why? The purpose of a suitcase is that you take IT with you.

Yes, it's my vacation. I will say the thing where they're lake, put IT in the bed of your truck and watch T, V is like the dream. IT is the dream. IT is also just the most specific use case like i'm gna tailgate with this thing six times a week and it's going to be worth if you are a season ticket holder to some yeah by this television like that that's one of IT.

Chris. Basic point was like we need more addicts again, which is direct pull on my heart strings. And I think this should be cheaper. I don't think it's be Better.

I think should be cheaper. Good point that he understood why it's so expensive because IT is like a niche product and he like, if they made IT Better than he would just be more expensive to twelve hundred dollars is also expensive. But like I I don't know if I fully buy about.

I actually don't buy that all L, G can make a good TV for virtually no money. All they've really done here. But I suk.

They put in a six, U, K.

I really is just A T, V, and a hinch. yeah. Like that's not.

But you can you can plug stuff into IT.

You plug, you can play .

your switch on IT. It's got a tattoo screens. So you can like .

just something about .

this one picture in the review where the the T V is on a couch and it's it's folded up. The two case is open, it's flat and there's two people on the either side of IT playing chess. And this picture is both like truly absurd because I cannot imagine regular people ever actually doing this and also makes me want it's so bad.

And you can see that that whole conflict in their faces too.

in photo. Yeah, there are kind of like, what is this bad chess APP, that division.

But I also have a good time.

Who does have a good time playing web s trust on suitcase TV ah speaking of gadgets, my lighting around is the yearly printer review was published big day for you, big day for me.

This is what I see you did on vacation the whole time was just plan your epic, come back with the printer.

So if you don't know, something is happening to google search right now where various websites the traffic is declining because google change algorithm and some of them we did the coder with me a about one of them has fresh ed, the appeal fire blog. There's a russia gaming site who is uh, energy for owner, someone continent traffic then a bunch like content farms also in the idea .

is to kill the content farms, yes, but if they are uh, catching some of the good Carrying sites.

a lot of people catch this one.

Yeah.

something that the internet as we know that I believe this to be true. The internet as we know that is about to fall apart.

Oh, I really good .

that I something weird is happening on the internet out there. Uh, so my contribution to that is to make stories that pointed out by using the form of the stories, the content farms.

It's very md of our project.

Yeah yeah. I think they're shaping our project. Uh, so the answer to the question, what is the best printer has been unchanging for a decade. This is the cheapest brother's laser printer you can find. But that is the google cannot accept that as an answer because it's not new enough, because it's of shopping links, because the data isn't semantic.

How many h two you ve got that piece got to have IT and .

trust me pointing out that alms don't know. They answered the question here right to be once again, we have sold like two thousand pinchers.

It's amazing.

which is just the funny is part of this whole thing is favor part. It's easily the funny is part as old thing is like, what should this actually look like? I feel like just buy this one and shut up.

But that's all only when he wants on the internet. When they are looking for products. Advice in google is like, no and google want you. You have to update the page. So you look at the internet and you know like you typed in best printer and all the top results are like updated last week to point out the a bad product is the new winner or like we like we change our methodology and you look at the number of sites that one claim to have reviewed every printer and then claim to have updated those printer reviews yesterday and then also get the answer .

like updating in on january first twenty twenty four so to say they've up and you yeah .

IT is so my my big edit to you and this story was to add a bunch of links to the kinds of things are talking about and some of that is just truly wild. And it's like I feel like everybody has seen this at some point. You google one of these and you go on to some say you've never heard of and it's basically just like a product name.

People on amazon like IT, here's what they say copy in basic bench amazon results in call today. But that like one of them is on people that come the eight test home printers of four tested and reviewed like nothing against. I have not even read this piece.

I don't know what what in the world is people magazine in doing caring about printers? yeah. Like how is this what the internet has become?

That's how they print the magazine. Now.

like cbs news, I think, was my favor. Then I realized like the demographic of cbs news might be looking for printers. I don't know the answer to that question is if it's just a very odd that if you like, look at the architecture of internet, a lot of people are like affiliate, weird.

A fillip. Clicks will pay for everything. And you just look at what that means in practice, which is trying to game google search to get those filet clicks in that we're in .

the deaf spiral. But in one of the things google has been trying to take away recently is sites that not only do that but try to hide IT that i'll have a sort of sneaker y navigational part of their site that's not in the now they never put her on the home page. You can never find IT.

It's like parts of these websites exist exclusively for google. It's not just stuff that is like made because you see on google trends, which a lot of people do. And that's like that's a thing we think about IT. To think everybody things about like knowing what people want to know is fine. But like when you go to this deep, deep hole of, like we are going to actively wall this off from the rest of our site so that the people who come here on purpose and never even find IT like that's tough. And that is that is now a game a lot of people feel like they have to play.

People doesn't. You can find IT on the people page.

I just like.

what's up, guys? We love printers .

that runs .

up to printers. Pool cleaners.

That's danger shampoo.

This is the stuff.

Yeah, it's just very odd. It's a very odd moment on the internet. I fully believe that this is not sustainable like in any way, shape or form I gave you a year before. Like the google fight, internet turns in to whatever the next thing to be.

I think that's probably ly right. There was a really interesting that, that folks at four or four media they wrote about a search engine called cognitive is when I ve used to and I just like posted about, I was like, oh yeah, this is good of missing for well, this is a good story. They're talking about how much Better than than google and shocked at the number of people I got who were like, i'm done with google.

I'm out, i'm over IT. I've moved on. I finally switched. And I feel like google has had this sort of like inevitability for so long that I just feel starting to crack in a lot like I think there is this sense that google is not the only option anymore. And I think A I has kind of on done that in people's brains, even though A I is not actually that good. And a lot of search things, but IT does IT feels like google being sort of too google to fail, feels like it's sicking what was .

recent like search you went to do and google just totally failed you.

I have used google in a while.

if i'm being honest. Kay, are you? I I still use IT and I still like, wow, IT sucks every day that I don't my behave.

So it's not a straight google search, but I actually haven't answer this question because I I ve been thinking about IT ever since has happened yes, I A google and you know, if they called on me more and a circle that runs google assistant in my bathroom and next time one of they called where they killed next yeah, a google home yes.

one of those.

you know, circle yeah, like a fabric circle, the moole a google thing. I shouldn't the name of this product, it's a next topic. Yeah, it's a how many I was yeah, circle a toy.

I highly recommend .

putting one of those in red. They're very useful there. And I know I sometimes I have a player cast the morning, sometimes I have to set a time, like all the time.

And I asked IT how long IT would take to drive to the airport. And first, IT answered, and with a number of miles. And then I said, I can't.

And I, or how many minutes will that take? And I just couldn't. And then I sent me some, some stuff on the web. And I like all of this A I like all of this A I and google maps.

Yeah, like you have that all of the skills.

If I just asked google at this question, I would immediately deliver me the answer and you can't. And it's like, well, we just didn't close the loop in that to me. I was like, I should have just tried something.

Anything else would have been fine. And I think that that's like the google loop closing. Hopefully they get Better at IT. They had one you about this week.

We're going to get to that.

But yeah, that's the last one that really failed for me. And I just like, how is that possible? Like even if at this point, if germany, I had just lied to me yeah in the my forty five minutes, I don't know, press prior so right yeah right that feels right yes, about forty five minutes yeah I got won't been Better than just like .

I don't know yes.

Like there's nothing less useful than asking a robot how far away something is. It's like twenty five miles. It's like, cool. Can what does that mean to me?

What should I run? What's the plan?

Just what's there? The last one.

the google file. Me a, yesterday I was trying to decide. I asked IT, should I get an impact driver if I already have a regular, like power?

That's impossible. Too hard. I was too hard for IT.

There was like, no, and I like, what power tools should I get? And I was like, here's all the power tools for carpentry, ary. And I, I, I just wanted know what power tools suit like a nerd who wants more power tools? You failed me.

I got really upset. That's a really hard.

Maybe maybe .

you ve opened like, that's a pen doors box question. Yeah like I ve seen videos of people arguing the a the housing crisis caused people to switch from standard drills impacts because all the people experience filling houses. Got four of the market and the kids didn't know. Do you like you are touching on a third rail is like for a data center exploded because you ask google that question.

I went like, I had to go like a couple of links in just I was like, I need something that's not people trying to sell me power tools. And eventually I got like some people debating impact drivers and they were to give you, you got a lot of sheep rock. You got, or not, shit rock.

You got a lot of drive. Well, you ve got to get up. You get that impact driver, change your life. And I like, well.

I don't have that. I publish her. Chris grant is about to run in here just generally talking about our tools. Check the door open. Um well, I just say that about my prediction. A year from now, market that would is every fourth market a year for now, whatever google is today will look radially different.

Hey, sir.

I know agree. And I think I think google is that too. Yeah I do not sure they know what to do about IT. Do you see the I don't know that was a rumor report, but there is I just saw basic saying that google is now considering charging for its a eye stuff, which I find totally fascinating like that that actual A I starch stuff would be a paid thing instead of a free thing, messy and complicated. But like you get the sense google knows IT can be like this for much longer and it's filing a bunch of directions trying to fix IT. But I think IT seems like the internet is getting crazy faster than google is good at doing the solution.

They just need the same shit. And walmart.

not two hundred .

dollars on a solid walmart.

You've fine. Yeah yeah.

Some other AI stuff for writing around microsoft is working in x box AI chat bott scoop from tom warn.

just clippy for x box.

And he's right that he needs to be .

called expert. I just correct with microsoft firmed IT, we are testing at x box support virtual agent in internal prototypes of an animated character that inquiry expert support topics with voice or text is the general manager of gaming AI at xbox, the prototype kes IT easier and quicker for players to get help with support topics using national language taking it's like, this is great. This is cool, but like how many people are on the daily? Just like asking xbox support for help.

Why did I lose IT? No, I I mean customer support. AI is .

like .

and d like that, good or bad? That is the future of everything, right? Like all the the robot phone trees are going to be a replace ed by chabot.

And that just what we're and that's kind of what this sounds like. I think there is possibly more xbox could do here. But yes, this this sounds like it's going to be an adorable little customer.

No, I love this idea of a killing phone trees. So like, if AI kills the, oh my god, oh.

that's coming. I really am. I just Frankly, like just online chat. Customer service over having to call and weight for a human was delayed. Now all of that is just being replaced by a ibots who are like, helpful.

And my favorite is the people who go on to those things, like the people who went to the car rental company and ask you, like, do all kinds of we are self like this stuff is going to a get bad and crazy and weird. But that is, I think of this moment, probably the most slam dunk business use case for all of this. This is just going to eat the customer service .

industry because all of you mean working customer support is not fun. You are mostly reading scripts of people. Yeah, just have a way about restrained T, I just wanted know how they will all respond to me, just mashing zero.

Representative, representative.

no, thank you. I feel I never call A A phone try with a problem. The phone is time to solve. Never like I don't need to check my baLance like I can definitely that i'm yeah you know it's like I need to do something hard.

Who calls to check their baLance still? Like why are they offering that still? Because I said to, I called the bank, they're like you want to check your mind something? No, i'm i'm looking at the APP right now that told .

me to call you yeah i'm going .

to started calling to check my bounce yeah so I .

ask somebody. Samsung says bixby is not dead, which is an incredible thing to say, like because that implies that big, everyone thinks bixby dead.

My t shirt that says no, bixby is not dead as causing .

a lot of questions. A samsung executive tells cnbc that the company is working so hard to put A I features in bixby, even though they just start a big deal with google in germinie. Now all over the phone and the phones are run in germany, many german nano.

I'm not great a google product names today there back from location. You know there was a big awards banquet this week. They ask me awards. I track a lot of them, just like google stuff, google circle, german, I tiny.

Yeah, you're here here as good as anybody, including versions of google's .

product canter that. Ah so if you all recall, one biche was announced star shoes um if you are not caught up on verge hast law big be the name sounds like a dog wearing shoes that's the entire joke that yeah .

it's good to like if you were to imagine .

if you were to draw a picture of something called bixby, would imagine a dog wearing .

shoes was about.

yeah yeah the yeah people have sent us, uh, pictures, cartoons I encourage you to go ask an image generator to make a big, big dog where in shoes and senators, long years, short years. Long, long yeah, this, this is a real bopped dog. Yes, big, big. But if you were call the original bixby, the idea was that I would not compete with like google assistance to do go like web queries. IT would change the settings on your phone.

right? IT was designed to do stuff.

Never did IT you like, yeah, never was not a good boler. I mean, I was a duck.

Dogs aren't good bumpers. What do we think we're inherently sucking?

What do we think we're doing here? But now the saying we're working so hard to make IT that which is fascinating because they still think that is a thing that people want.

I think IT is, I think, like the idea that I can just yelled my phone to do something like go download the ticket master APP way Better user experience than what IT actually currently takes to go downtown. The ticket mater p IT just never really worked. But I think we're actually at a point with a lot of this s after like in that sort of limited scope of like things your phone is capable of doing, have the system connected for you that can work like is is is easier to say, turn on blue truth and look for this weird name of headphones that I have is that easier than going to the menu and have the thing like but I think samsung's idea that this is less about like getting esoteric philological answers about the world and more about just like getting the stuff done that you do on your phone.

What kind of what we talk about earlier, it's customer support .

basically .

is yeah, it's for people being like, I don't know how to turn blue oos on on my phone. How do I do IT great. And bixby.

well, peer bonds and porches fix that. perfect.

We over to I.

just the quote from one jin choi executive present mobile samsung. I believe we have to redefine the role of bixby by so that bixby can be a quip. General AI, to be smarter, you should redefine big species. Not a has a role.

has to have a role.

we'll see. But so makes me exist on all symbols, other products. You can see how they build in an all ecosystem.

I am and I I feel like we're all racing the shove A I into these moments and I think the phone companies are particularly afraid of the rabbits in the humans and the global loss. You read a piece about this this week like AI ages are common yeah. And I think you mention developer conferences.

I'm confident we're going to see a bunch of A I stuff in I O S A ww c gool. Obviously, I O was going to talk about IT a lot. I can't imagine the microsoft talk about anything else IT build.

I mean that the problem is all of these companies, there's basically like two sides of the world at this point, right? There's the companies that have done well in smartphones, which is three companies, is apple, is its google, in its samsung. Those companies are desperate to figure out an A I reason for your smart phone so that you will keep using your smart phone because what they are afraid of is that this new generation of other companies is going to come in and they're not going to have solved the whole problem immediately, but they're going to have fixed some part of the user experience that people like, oh, this is the thing that gets me past my phone. And I think that's what i'm particularly looking for with what humane is doing and rabbit is doing.

And companies like brilliant and even met up with the smart glasses that are the AI, like, can they start to pull pieces of what I do on my phone, out of my phone? And if the answer is yes, that starts to kind of get in the way of this, like essentially three company ownership of the smartphone universe, at least in the U. S.

And so it's not at all an accident that you have. Apple with theory, google with gi and samsung with bixby, like desperately trying to figure out how to make your phone AI inside of the existing structure of phones, which is very hard to do because an A I that can do all the things I wanted to do is literally not allowed in the way that phones exist rates now. So it's going to be fascinating. And so apple is either gonna have to say, like, oh, siri can now go download apps for you and do stuff inside of those apps. And IT has weird permission that nothing has ever had before or it's going to like protect this crazy revenue stream that is the APP store at the risk of losing IT all to gadgets that come up the new way to do IT.

it's going to be a fun three months. Yeah it's my prediction in in the spring doldrums, just like a year from that whole new internet. We take break, come back. We avoiding around part two, still a little of response or call now, right?

What will be right back? Support for the show comes from the crucible moments of podcast, for we've all had turning points in our lives where the decisions we make end up having lasting consequences. No one knows this Better than the founders of some of today's most influential companies.

In incredible moments, lets listen ers in on the maker break events that defined major companies like dropbox, youtube, rob ode and Moore told by the founders themselves. Tune into season two of crucible moments. Today you can listen a crucible moment stop com, or every listener casts.

Not your back lending around part two. This sounds going to be fast. We're going to date and point out the first living ground was almost in our long.

We talk about four things, classic lapping.

We're just going to go. We're going this is my plan for this one. I'm just going .

to read the headlines .

oh OK and just going to leave. John starts back on the daily show. I just on mondays. I think a good segment on AI with most thing fake S A. And then he interviewed lean a con and basically accused apple of censoring his previous show on apple yeah .

and this isn't the first time he's done that. That's the thing like that's what I wanted to talk about on the show that was like what's going on without bin john store because he keeps being like apple since red me more than once, IT wouldn't let me talk about china IT wouldn't let me talk to lena kon like IT wouldn't me do stupid pokes that technology, what's going on over at apple and that's a bad sign.

Yeah so what's an apple thing they were buying?

Like everyone .

around like just don't make a deal of like it's fine if if that's how you feel, just don't have .

joined to I like I don't know that's what they eventually decided. Yeah.

but I think about like there is the thing ryan Johnson said a few years ago about how a one of the y things about apple is still never let the bad guy have an iphone in the movie because yeah yeah yeah ah and I I think about that all the time is just sort of like a silly cork of apple, right? There's a lot of things going on with how distribution works in this.

Like now tom crews can never be fighting an enemy with a name because IT is associated with the country and the movie didn't play in that country is. So like you can move around inside of this landscape in all kinds of wear ways. This one is just like IT just seems like IT was a bad fit from the beginning.

And I also, I don't know john's do work personally, but I get the distinct sense that if you make john do the list of things you can do, he's going to attempt to go do every single one of them yeah so I feel like it's almost a miracle that lasted this long with apple. That is very funny. Hear him say to the icon, I wanted to have you on my show and apple said.

but icon is a chair of the federal trade commission and he leads a lot of, and I trust efforts, federal trade commission, not the entity suing apple for an rest violations at the dog. But she's the face of a .

lot of IT SHE has a lot of feelings to an anti trust in general. Yeah yeah lot a lot of thing .

and the tech companies all hate her. It's like a real thing yeah but it's like weird like I I come back this all the time, same as you out, which is like the same companies they want they want to do media and then they get one slice of what it's actually like to do media, which is just having to be OK with things and they like, no, thank you yeah but I mean.

we're seeing they are increasing their control in the hollywood like that. Like apple is doing pretty well. Apple TV was the second most searched thing during the outage yesterday.

Like like they have this power and and is always, I think, very uncomfortable for me to see any media organization which apple now is saying, no, you can cover something and and that's been the way it's been always right. There's always been sensors at this company is saying, no, you can talk about this. No, you can talk about that.

And IT felt like in the less, I don't know, ten, fifteen years, those sensors, their power had really cut started away because we had these different ways of getting this content to people. IT wasn't just broadcast television. IT was also IT was the films, but I was also streaming IT was also cable, all these other ways.

And apple came in and was like, yeah, network censorship, huh? That's it's cool and and just brought IT immediately back and IT makes sense. sure.

But the last time they were doing IT so that they didn't get sued by the fcc, that's why we had network sensors for so long. This time they're doing IT because apple doesn't want to upset people in china because he wants to cell ones in china. And like the motivation is very, very different.

And I think what makes me the most uncomfortable here yeah is that like we're seeing a very large company exert influence directly on the things that owns and then saying, like we're doing IT for very greedy capitalism reasons. We just like, fine, that's your job. Your job is to make money. But also, if your job is to make money in, your job is to create media.

But also, if you don't want someone talking about, don't hire, don't hire john, do that kind of on that. Like this is the part about this I find so confusing, like there is the thing with disney forever, right? Where disney was reluctant to do something like ad who look to disney plus, because this of a family friendly nature of a platform they called disney was very important to that company.

And that has, I think, changed internally over time. But like that, the stands you can hold if that's how you want to feel terrific, don't hire john toward. And so so to me, it's like the thing that I find strange is not that apple has these feelings, but that IT really loudly wants to pretend IT doesn't have these feelings uh and then goes around just sort of quietly trying to steer everyone in the direction that apple would like, which is honestly, apple's whole M O. With everything all the time. Yes, like apple, apple prefers to be sort of the wizard behind the curtain, exerting influence without saying or doing anything publicly.

This is the closest apple is gotten to news programing, like, i'm fine if apple wants to make to be a movie studio and IT only makes hard warming movies about that. You're a great movie study nobody y's mant of the homework work channel for not doing the hard news every single day, sir. But like hiring john is like we're going to do your news.

We're going to be to hopeful, really relevant. And you just see most other big test companies if they tried IT and they're all running away from this fast like instagram threads. We don't want to do news like this is messy.

It's hard to get this in lots of trouble. It's not even people want instagram threats, the algorithms only in the your content about how to be a trade wife so people can do engage from bate. And it's like what's happening here, all they want like I think apple hasn't quite had that realization yet.

Yeah, I think that's true. But I think there's also just the concern that if these are also the companies that are the primary owners of how we view media and they all don't want to do news and they don't want to like talk about serious .

issues all the time, well, that's bad to around me. Okay that I want a speaking apple and I trust uh two things one um the first european alternative APP stores have hit because of the dma not the good one yet which is all store which is going to the emulators in IT but like an enterprise won his hit, which is perfect. Of course.

enterprise oft first go, would you like to jump through a bunch of the we have a story for you.

but Kelly booth, who's in europe, we hire them to like look at this stuff. We have a good deep look at IT. There are a lot of hops.

Oh yeah, the hops. Let me, let me just read this sentence to you made me funy. Uh, IT goes like this. You begin by clicking a broader base links to load the alternative store. From there, you receive a pop up informing you that your insulation settings don't allow marketplaces from that developer. Then you head into setts, enable the marketplace return to your brothers, or click that on the link again, and received another prompt asking you to confirm the install. Finally, you can open the storm, browse available apps.

perfect.

Yeah I feel like guys screw .

that up by accident. Like yeah. So the argument is apple doesn't know if these things are in compliance of the dma until they released them and the european regulators tell them which is weird, right? Like you're gona be a regulator and you're going to insist that things are designed. We should just say how you want them designed and this weird back and forth. But I suspect all of this will change because the way it's designed is they released IT and then the european regulators, that would be like the whole.

And as they do.

yeah and I say this is good enough.

I think that's probably I also i'm not terribly bothered by making people jumped several hoops to do honest. I think the the thing on the mac where if you tried to download an APP from, uh, sort of non trusted source being like the ater IT makes you open settings, find a thing, track that box and then go do IT again. I think that is like the correct number of hoops to jump through like this is the sort of that you should not be able to do by accident. But if you want to do IT, you should be able to, you should just know, you should have to know that you're doing.

And I, I want to be able to solution, destroy my phone on x. That's how I learned how to compute. And I I want to maintain that. And I think like kids today.

it's the kids today.

they ve got to learn to everybody's gotta learn how to like just destroy all their technology because they click one wrong box somewhere. And IT IT makes IT, makes you sharper, makes you think more, and got to make people .

sharper and more. Yes, we bring down a number of iranian futures. Just let the worms prolifically.

you know, are.

yeah, IT does. If you ever brought in an entire computer lab trying to download one M P. Three right now, you're a real man. I I think there's bounced because android has had this model for a long time where you can like jump to with some hobbs.

And the argument is like, I mean, we've seen in the epic and address case against google, like google knew the people are doing because who are there. But then you can I don't want a bunch people excEllent screwing things up. The thing that's really interesting though is all store has delta in that uh is an intendo emulator by all counts of great emulator.

Apple allow that on its store. But now you like over is an entire use case for the iphone and the betwen. Now this is an alternative application distribution model that's worth IT. Oh.

a one hundred percent agreed. And I think IT IT is it's kind of great that that. Is the first thing because like leaving aside all the legality questions about emulation in general, like whatever, playing those kinds games on your phone is so fun, so fun.

And and you're right that IT has not been allowed and it's never going to be allowed. And there was a minute where rally tested the developer thought he was gona get into the abstract proper and then got that sort of ripped from under him. This is a couple of years ago now yeah but now we're the point where like if you want to go through the hoops, you are going to be able to get your phone to do almost anything.

And I think that is the right approach. You I think I should be hard work to do the dumb stuff you wanted do on your phone like I think I should be more than one click of one link download now wear on your phone. But diamond, if you wanted down the nowhere on here.

you be allow.

you should be allowed. And I think that's fine. And I think IT is going to be interesting to see from a regulatory perspective how they view the hoops. Uh because I think if if the goal of the E U. And the regulators in general is to make IT so sort of like OPEC in the process that IT feels like you're downloading that from the APP store even when you're not. I actually think that's a bad outcome. But I also feel like the thing where you have to go essentially check the one box that declares the like, I know what i'm doing and i'm willing to put up the consequences and then you can move on and through your life feels right to me and this feels like a little overshoot of that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm very excited to be. This is the experiment where we've never run IT before, like we'll see how that goes.

I think there's something really exciting to have here. David, you've added this extremely fake story about station playing tiktok without the algorithm. Defend yourself, defend the addition of this.

This is a totally fake story. It's totally well, this is why I added IT because so we got a ton of feed back over the last couple weeks about both the apple interest stuff in the tiktok and um and we're going to talk about all that on two but for this one my real question is more theoretical than this like, uh, Steve nugent is not going to buy tiktok buying tiktok with the without the aug.

a former treasury secretary and trump yeah .

who is not going to buy tiktok no matter who he is, is not going to bite tiktok and I think i'm just fascinated by this question. So there are two pieces of news here that I think are are related. So one is that facebook this week rolled out a unified video player for all of its video across platforms, and it's basically all in on precisely tiktok style vertical video.

And that plus this thing where it's like, okay, what do you buy if you buy tiktok without the algorithm? Just let me to believe like maybe, maybe the answer is nothing like we buying tiktok without the algorithm. Is that anything? But then where the point where tiktok is actually got more and more transparent about what the algorithm.

And so in theory, you could start to do Better. And companies like meta have been more explicit about like we're not going to you know show you suffer your friends. We're not going to buy a anything except engagement and entertainment essentially like you can actually start to kind of reverse engine or tiktok.

And without this magical algorithm that is so much of what tiktok has become, you're just buying a brand name, right thing. You're buying you're buying a lessons to the word tiktok and that's well and good. But tiktok without the other algorithms els like good to me it's worth like five dollars, I think.

So I just don't see IT. And I think if that's going to become the question, and I think so far, our theory, which is that this is going to lead nothing, has pretty much born now. We've basically heard nothing about this since there was all that stuff a couple of weeks ago.

I hope he doesn't. I hope like right now, as we're recording .

when I think about the voice of the youth, I think a former treasury secretary, Steve um well, you know the content, you buy all the content and then he should put any algo them .

on top that you're fine sure .

yeah mean that that's what you be buying be buying all the user generated content that is tick.

I guess that's true. That's also all of that content now exists on all .

the other platforms.

So kind of a if i'm if the instagram team, I am having meetings where it's like what does tiktok have and offer at this moment that we can't? And like the the youtube sorts, the team I know is asking the same kind of question like I know it's all just sitting there and especially if you don't have the algorithm and the algorithm been made out to be this like magical thing that is irreplacable and perfect and understands people Better than they do themselves.

I don't know that is that I think part of IT is just that like tiktok is so shameless about the way that IT works and like adam mossy, who runs in serum, is like ringing his hands trying to be a good person. And tiktok is just like tiktok shop. Let's go.

Tiktok is doing things and just happened for you. I think you're testing this is nothing happening to me where they just start playing ahead at the end .

of every video now oh.

no, I have not done so you like instead of looping, it's just like, here's that. And all of those ads for me are for the landrover defendant, which is utterly confusing, like that algorithm believes that they can get me to buy a Andra over defender. And all the ad start with the same sweeping shot of the word defender.

So it's like, I never know if it's just like some weird IT security company. Now it's lander over defender there. IT is again definite not buying a ender ever defender. It's pretty good though. It's just like but they've started doing like there the platform is getting they're squeeze more pennies out of IT because mico away or something.

I have feel the algorithms also just getting for earth like IT keeps showing me this guy going, what's up, brother? Yes, yes, yeah, yeah I am not a sports person. I don't play matter, you get immediately but yeah, yeah, we have cause .

maybe that's why yeah.

I know that now, because tiktok shown me that takes.

I just made a weird twitch streamer. A star is like very interesting.

very wear, right mark.

this time where that's a story come back. But this c this study is not playing to no last two little regulatory ones. I think it's very funny that the house representatives is now banned.

IT suffers from using microsoft copilot because they are putting too much data into an insecure and system. Very funny, you just deeply funny. Um and then we will come back to this in more detail. But the fcc .

has scheduled a vote to .

restore an centrality, which is very interesting and IT feels like we've already ruined enough things. You, so it's like hard for anyone to get excited about. We did IT like because they took neutrality away.

I I just want to, there are people out there who like, nothing bad happened. And twenty one way in one very specific bad thing happened, which is that t bt time Warner. Like very specific bad thing happened, and they thought they could prioritize time Warner services and ties network. And then they paid dex niter to make a four three grey scale version of the justice leak.

Alexa, bad girl. I, because net neutrality that, yeah, could you? Dw, I feel like you could draw that. I I because it's out that acquisition, they don't have all the debt when they get off loaded, which means that love doesn't have to go back. Yeah, thanks to g pii.

You ruined bad. I'm just saying this man and his stupid mug is stupid, oversized with a piece as mug and everyone like no bad things happened and it's like actually one very tangible bad thing happened just nt had a theory of the case was like we will buy a content service prioritized and preload tiny little clips of game of thrones on the genre family and accept all of that from our data caps.

This was this was IT and then we're going to get zac niter for some god for sake read. I know he thought he was the IMAX aspect ratio. Okay, I know that's what he was thinking, but the reality is he made a four, three version and just this leak.

That's how I watched IT on my TV. IT was a square. The more you say that.

the more I feel like, what if net you try out like like actually that was a good thing that was loved.

Yeah.

because IT proved that. Like no one wants that.

I just for I was I agree with you. I actually agree. The market firmly rejected A T S.

IT was like, no, this is stupid. But we didn't need to go through all that pain. We didn't fire all those people. We like the layoffs that occurred, the, the, the, the general pain thousands .

of people .

love upon the american populous with .

black and White. Dex.

next four, three justice league was created. We didn't have to. I'm saying, like, I think the day after worse, like the millions the millions of dollars like debt and weirdness and but .

we all experience exactly rounds of .

rolling waves are bad. I don't think we need to do them. We should have healthy companies in a functional marketplace. But then also there was a fourth justice leak.

also very .

tangible results. I watched all like .

fifteen .

hours of you had to do IT as a journalist.

the only thing .

that saved me is because I invest in all that technology. Okay, with the pillar boxes weren't shining great big.

I was a bit .

very horrible, actually have access to garbage bitrate get that shit on rahab a court, A, C, P, and excuse that from your data caps and T. I'm just say whenever ver anyone tells you, whenever you see that the weird is on the on the x being like neutrality LED to nothing immediately reply with a screen shot of four three .

dressed ce league and Grace I feel like the diagram of weirdos on x saying net neutrality that LED to nothing and the people who really wanted that four three movie is circle.

Like they couldn't even they won't even like just fill make IT sixteen. I just do IT I am max enhanced, right?

Because we all have those in our house. You don't have an IMAX screw in your house. Oh.

that old leg I do like that IMAX enhanced is basically meant we took two, one nine, seven, my friend, and made IT sixteen. It's just regularly, just regular, like just like IMAX and hands. Like what does that mean?

It's it's sixteen by nine. Yeah, that's like that's what that is worked out. It's great, alright, that the vote is coming up, will try of Lawrence back to cover in more detail what IT actually means.

There are some meaningful differences between this version and previous versions. I just want to point out again, you live in amErica right now, twenty twenty four, where a barrow was killed. David SaaS love rain of terror continues. We're downed three wireless Carriers in project genet, five, six.

all because of the stupid mug. It's a real thing.

There is no, by the way, at the same time, the same L, G, P, F, C, C, uh, got rid of the privacy protections for a badman Carriers in any ability regulate. All these are our favorite company. C, S, I should know at this time, the nbc universal is a minority investor box media, which on the verge, and nbc universal on the does not love neutrality or me, is that happens. I subscribed to horizon.

It's okay.

I find us and nice. K, I, an eighty described her. I streamed just to sleep for free. Was that didn't my day to cap at all?

Grad superperson .

still walked into max, and so now I only have max and ten. P, very good. All right, we going to take a break way back.

Support for this show comes from the aclu. The aclu knows exactly what threats a second Donald trump term presents, and they are ready with a battle tested playback. The we took a legal action against the first trumped administration four hundred and thirty four times, and they will do IT again to protect immigrants rights, defend reproductive freedom, safeguard free speech and fight for all of our fundamental rights and freedom. Join the aclu today to help stop the extreme project twenty twenty five agenda. Learn more at .

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We're back with what David is titled the everything else lighting around yes.

it's a kind of grab .

begg sponsored by everything .

else yeah sponsor by walmer.

Um did you get a free blue check from x this week?

No, no. sad.

I hesitate to talk about anyone on the show.

Why did you get up?

Oh yeah yeah the ky, the guy who went welcome to hell you on is now being gifted a blue check.

Congratulations to an influencer yeah I don't know.

It's all working because now you're talking .

about IT and he got yeah you you .

can can't wait to buy tesla. He's had a bad couple weeks here yeah right. So tesla deliveries are weighed down under forecast. I've i've never seen that before, but various investors and executives are talking about replacing you on a CEO that never happen. But even the fact that IT is a conversation that has occurred like in the cnbc orbits .

the shine is off.

seem as very bad. Tesla stock is journalist tanking. Elon is tweet about the mind virus instead of shipping more cars for making ex good. It's not great over there. No.

no. I think there was a thing about tesla that made him kind of vince for a really long time because I was like the the conversation around land for so long was like, say whatever you want, people are voting with their dollars, right? Like tesla was on fire, investors loved that people were buying IT.

We talked on the show that how there was essentially unlimited demand for test and at some point in the last year. So that turned. And I think you can probably blame that on the confluence of things.

Not all of IT is a lot of people decided they not like you on musk in more. But I think that some of IT is that. But like this sort of era of power that tesla had for a long time seems pretty clearly to be, if not over them, under like really serious threat. And as we've been saying, and I think is you in particular, I have had a few times on their show, uh, tesler is both like a great strength and a great weakness for your land because of the way admission to china, because of the way I like has all of his fortunes inside of the uh, that like what happens to this company is so materially important to what happens to everything else and ask wants to do, including the way that space x works with the government like, yeah, it's all so tied up and so you get the sense that as IT is starting to turn the other way IT, the spiral happens in the reverse direction too yeah, and he feels like it's getting really ugly, really fast.

So we have a story this week. There's a reputation tracking firm called calibre one survey a bunch people. Uh, the consideration score for tesla, which is basic consumer interests and brands, the question they went survey people, I would buy or continue buying products and services from tesla if given the chance.

I in november twenty, twenty one, seventy percent of people said yes. That's one to thirty one percent. wow. yes. yeah.

I mean that everything about that because we we've seen the quality has dropped. People talking more about that quality. We've seen people struggling with getting their cars repair, getting getting this like customer service is really, really bad there.

So yeah, all those things that actually do matter to a consumer experience in elan kind of was like to worry about IT. We're build in the future eventually. People are like, guess, but I want my car to work.

right? I used to think this ongoing a false of driving fiasco that this company just cannot get out of, where IT uses to stop calling full stop driving when IT is not full soft driving. And actually what it's doing is really dangerous like the the public perception on that I think is like decidedly negative at this point yeah uh, which is really look like even outside of how you feel about on musk, the idea that tesla is like the future of cars in a lot of ways like hinges on that their .

entire valuation hinges, right? Like i've watched go on C, C time, I talk and you you look at how the market values tesla and it's still built in the idea that you will go to work in your car, will like leave your house and like drive self in a taxi service.

The test let is going to be like infrastructure.

yeah yeah. And like not a car company like that, but all of the multiple of tesla is built on the idea that the cars will be generate more value then just being an appreciating asset that most people should please.

Do they all think he was uber?

Yeah, that's that's the idea here like the multiple and that's why you on is contain A I now yeah on the stuff and is like you like test is really in an AI company because you're trying to get the other thing to happen and get the other multiple and like the market is started to see a car company, a car company that uh shipped a triangle and said he will pick up truck um a car company that can't deliver like well made cars and like all the stuff and to CEO is becoming more more unpopular by the day because he won't shut up. We and the guy touch a lot to see us do not all pleasant people like by and large, like very aggressive type I personalities in the sea weeds of american companies. But they know to not.

They have people around them. They they hire publicity firms and stuff. Yes, famous and like don't .

tweet turns out to be pretty good advice yeah .

especially about the woke mind virus in the great replacement for if you .

publicly traded company don't tweet very.

very publicly traded company of electric cars to, uh, extremely liberal people by a large you do in some light supremacy on the side.

Not a great idea for you.

Yeah.

not about you. Anyway, it's it's just a weird like to bring this all background x now giving the checkmark away to journalists for free. Very funny.

Yes, like all the background. And they are like, what if we verified? And so they need people use the platform. I suspect you want work?

no. If anything, IT IT seems to be a like, remember that moment right after they said you're going to have to start paying for the blue chic, but they hadn't taken IT away from people who had IT before and all these people were coming out saying, no, no, just no, I didn't pay for IT. We're doing that again where people like embarrassed to have a blue chat, like it's a bad of you are pathetically still using this platform rather than as something you're actually part of.

I say a kind of works because then you have to go log in and tweet excuse me, post I didn't pay for this checkmark yeah the goat and you're unregarded .

user minutes go through the roof yeah that's enough on talk for one day spot of fire .

reportedly having Price increase, they have realize they increase that. They increased Prices last year, have the best you ever. They also let off unch people had cuts. So the the increase revenue, reduced costs heartlessly. But do IT that .

does in that .

work I usually match .

out there's not a lot of places to go from spotify. I think people I H spot for going up and switching .

the youtube music. No, people should not and are not doing that. Uh, I mean, I think to me the thing that seems to be true as that nine ninety nine was the wrong Price for streaming music.

We just kind of decided this like years ago IT was just like in the same way that Steve jobs was just like, what if song's cost ninety nine cents and was like IT like a long time ago, IT was just like ten bux a month. This is where we are and IT turns out that is good money for record tables ah and bad both for most artists and most streaming companies. Well, I mean spotted .

did IT because that was when were they were coming into the united states where you had this really enranged market run by apple, right? And they're like, okay, we ve got to compete with ninety nine cent songs. How do we do that? Ten dollars a year and you get all of the songs. And and we are like, yes, that sick yes. And I think been .

twenty six a month, probably ouldn't worked, but if they have twenty works of IT might have been a hell of a lot more sustainable.

Yeah I mean, I would say the last ten plus years of like ten dollars amount, that's that's pretty good run for that's Better run than like netty for short.

Yeah no, I I actually think we as users probably save a lot of money on on spotify time, but I think this feels is super ineffable, able to me and this will not be the last one. I don't think that like he went for nine, nine and ten nine and now the report is it's gna go up, I think but either one or two more dollars, right? Uh, I would not be surprised if a couple of years from now where like fifteen inbox for spotify, i'll still pay IT.

Like music services are awesome. Yeah, I have I have zero colum with the fact that I have all the music on earth available to me at all times. But IT is IT is a bummer to see this are more sensitive to this for spotify because like it's a bad business for modify, it's not spotify.

Like we make lots of money, but we want more, give us more. This is spotify y being like we literally cannot do this anymore. Please give us more money. yeah. How do you all feel like apple will respond to this?

I don't think apple will raise their Prices at all. Actually, I think any Price increases get role in the apple one. And so we're going to keep doing, I think, apple music, they run as a lost leader to get you into that pig room.

I don't even pay for IT. I get IT through my variety on account and i'm like.

right yeah I think apple is very happy to uh, let that be somewhere between the OK business and a slit less than OK business in service of everything else. Yes.

and they want you in that apple one. But yeah, as hard as I can be when all the services went down, I was like, people search for the APP .

store .

being down and a little bit apple T, V. And else looking.

No.

we could even like find the line on the grave, really. That's a bar which is funny.

Example of music is hugely popular, like IT is IT is apple music and spotify are the two winners in this market by a gigantic market. Not the one.

People go google when they can rush hours.

right? Two stories .

that are in conflict in really interesting ways. Uh, opening eye has a new voice cloning model that only needs fifteen seconds of audio to clone your voice. fascinating.

And there was a fake George carline special. Uh, they settled with the estate of George garland. They promise not to do IT anymore. Actually, uh, a weird drama inside of the story is, uh, whether there is actually A, I used to make a fake shorge car and special whether they are faking IT.

which is interesting, what they not they admitted to writing IT themselves yeah. How the rest of IT was produced, I think, as far as I know at least, has not been really nailed down. But the idea that this was like written, produced and created by AI just flatly not true.

And it's been really fun thing going around. Like there is this whole story this week about how a amazon's just walk out technology was actually a powered by like a thousand contractors in india. Manually reviewing your trip through to make sure that you paid for everything uh, I think that was Molly way who runs the the website like I think it's was the website is going great.

yeah. Who was basically like, I wish I had been tracking all the times that A I turned out to just be a guy. And it's really true and this feels like that too. It's just it's just .

a guy just esn help that one of them is like from mad TV like have the host .

yeah but these two ideas are intention. We taught about us so many times, like A I being able to on a voice or on a picture, and then you have a in doing a fashion than ever, fifty seconds of our voices to clone us yeah which we have generated more of that this very, very pocket. And then it's like over we have no control over how those likings ses are used or any of that is actually been done except these handful of osage that might bring the whole thing crashing .

yeah when an open a eyes strategy has been so far to roll IT out really slowly and only with a few partners. And as I OK, that's fine at the beginning. But then what's going to happen is you're going to have a Better version of this technology that you give to everybody. So what's the plan then? Yeah, if they were saying, you know IT takes nine hundred hours, so we're only letting a few people use IT because it's usually intensive.

I'd like whatever, but this is like we found a very good technology, but only a few people can have IT and then everybody can have a very good, what are you come shing here? Yeah uh but I think I mean, this is this is been coming right like the the the near or times I think IT was this week had to be announcement about how most of its articles are now going to be available in audio form read by uh, automated naratu like eleven labs s which is the company we've talked about on the show before, is doing like incredible slash terrifying work synthesizing people's voices like this stuff is moving as fast as any other attack in A I right now. And it's getting really crazy, really fast and I feel like probably should be talked about more than IT is yeah in the way that we talk about like generated images and how are being used in political campaigns and all of the stuff you're going to do, you're gonna get phone calls from joy and telling you not to vote like that's a thing that's going .

to start to have sorry yeah, that's IT happened.

And I think like this, open a eye is typically very good at this and I think is not usually wrong when IT says IT built something good but is not great IT playing IT slow. yeah.

But that one story that hit is just as we as we've talking on the wordless ast. A neil moon, who runs youtube and a conference, said, opening I should not train in systems on youtube, which is not how opening I thought of.

what the internet no. And who was that he was? Uh, was IT mirror ali, yeah, at opening eye who said to john ter and our friend, uh, Joanna was when they were talking about the video thing sora.

That opening I came out with johna was like, are you training this on stuff from the internet? SHE is like training stuff internet, public, private. I was like getting from youtube and shoes just like so go so you're obvious ly getting .

in from yeah so great um no if google sues, open a ye on behalf of youtube creators for training, it's it's a weird there is a copyright apocalypse. We did an entire decoder or siri, you know listen to IT, but there's a potential copyright apocalypse.

mr. B is gonna a video in which he sees OpenAI for one hundred million dollars and then gives the .

money that incredible. We got to end this thing where way, way over. But David, you should end google part.

Well, this this is a good we're circling background to. We're closing the loop on google, not closing the google good stand to learn from. So google podcast is dead, uh, although it's actually not dead. It's like google has so forgotten about google podcast that IT seems to forgotten .

to turn that off. Was that was that that was like podcast up?

yes. So IT had a dedicated park cast that IT came out in twenty sixteen a been around for a while. IT did what google does to many of the aps, which was like IT launched.

IT had big ideas that seemed to kind of cool. I got a couple of updates. Google got, google launched a competitor, and the google kill that.

This is the story of google apps. And so the plant here is replace google podcasts with youtube music. And they've been making some moves in the youtube music.

There is A I was a strong chance you are watching or listening to this podcast right now on youtube. Uh, part of the reason google is investing in youtube because that is fast and massively growing place for podcasts. But I had this really cool opportunity in podcasts, really google.

I hope I can read their initial thing in sixteen. They and they have these big ideas about discovery and helping people find insights inside of podcasts in doing audio, transcription and searching. All this stuff is like, oh, that seems good.

Like, why didn't you do any of that would have been cool. And instead you just forgot about this APP for eight years and then killed IT. And youtube is not going to do.

I think, going to a release google podcast with gami at google. I O oh god.

they launched google podcast.

I incredible, which they could .

have also solved a huge amount of podcast and olympic an advertising problems everyone has all over the place yet I .

heard from a lot of people, after I wrote this story, I had a paragraph in here, basically like a google, if you had just done for audio creators, what you did for video creators on youtube, you could have won this industry the same way that you did. And I heard from a surprising number of pod casters who were like, I have been begging flash, hoping youtube do that for years.

Like, build the add tools, do the ref share, let me post my stuff on youtube, make money from that, does not your career, or the same way you can as a video creator. And there are a lots of but say, good reasons, but their bad reasons, but there are a lots of reasons google didn't do that. But IT didn't do that. Yeah could have and that sucks.

I'm everything in meetings. Our company, it's like google is come and we would Better be ready.

And I do yeah look, get distracted.

I don't worry about IT.

So I know but also to everyone .

who wants to know the answers.

pocket casts pocket if you want .

a good cross platform podcast APP, that is not going to go away. The answer is pocket. There are other good ones out there, and ten pods really go IT overcast apple pocket. But if you wanted the answer, its pocket casts .

right well in there. With that completely a uncontroversial opinion .

brought by the no.

got to pay the money. We can't give the stuff way for free perceive value a red approaches brought you by anything others public. That's that's the versions I want to call a few stories um becca did a comparison video of the fug film x one hundred six versus the ric O G R three x i'm saying because that's just a lot of let more, but it's really fun.

I'm desperate to buy these campus for no reason. I just, uh alson read about notifications being bad, which is worth reading, is right? No, take just like, just like for all this way is bad. And then liz wrote about advice, one of the weirdest, wildest stories I think we've done in a long time.

We didn't entire code those about the station this that next week, but the rest of IT is we thought we are writing a story about how advertising in the web was like went sideways and can support advice because I shut down their new website. So we thought we were ready more like advertising cookies and programmatic. And no, no, we we are just writing about crazy people.

That's the story starts twenty people. SHE described reporting and story as a hall of mirrors, hate each other, that all I do each other about each other, but it's very good, beautiful. Including one part where IT was revealed, the advice of that jets account that was on on the budget of their digital division, and then two different people to cut up for shutting down advice. Response to us was we have not had a actions account since twenty twenty one.

which is like, so it's good that's .

oh h by the way well, we got for a bunch of roborts yeah the people is for best technology podcast. The big will be in the people choice, go over for us, will have a link.

go vote for us. We also listen people, it's it's so important that you vote for the verdict as technology. This is nei can have his, that's all fine. I need you to vote for the first cast is so important that me, I does not win as decoder. It's so important.

Please really dig when he really did a state. I'll take the business win. Give okay, just look for my face like that.

It's going to great. That's we're way over on a slow week. We still went way over. That's that's a very fast.

And that's IT for the bird cat this week. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at eight, six, six bird one one.

The verge cast is the production of the verge and box media podcast network. Our show is produced by Andrew marino and leon James. That's IT. We'll see you next week.

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