Humane Pins and your own ChatGPT
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Home working in your chest for ship podcast, the flocks media there was taken a back baby, yeah, that's twenty twenty four. Just open me with me. Bring on sports website.

I'm a friend nei. Alex trands is here. I'm your friend .

to I just got to say, IT my brother on a mission one star and I didn't even want to try to to put that in neat. I just want to break. Yeah, so that was me bragging and that that here IT happened.

The flag shop podcasts. E have been related to missions. Stars, yeah, there go. He's my brother too. Yeah, he's all our brother.

one's family. Everyone.

everyone earned this. If you are listening to the show, you can tell people, you know a mission star. Yeah, you can. The start.

start, the start.

David pears is in same from cisco.

We're like eighty five seconds in and i'm like this is going to be a three and a half hour long. It's not going to make any sense to anyone. And this might be the end of the word cast. This for a lot of reasons today might be the last word cast ever. I think it's going to be it's .

going to be a day if you're going to go go with a bang. Alex heath is here from los Angeles.

Hi, i'm really just A A I agent.

Um I will say that some people in the youtube comments openly wondered if I was interviewing in a ibc. Obama, well, that didn't happen. H, you got rolled by abarak obama, and maybe I did, right? So David year sympathic. O, because you were supposed to attend the launch of the humane AI pen. That's cracks, which when David says the energy of this podcast is a little, I would say that that is the thing that we are gna talk about IT is it's a lot there's a lots of impact. The fact that David is incessant to go IT did not go to that event in the earlier this week out you did attend the OpenAI dev day at the right, which is probably like a pivotal moment in the history of that company because they headed towards APP stores. So there's a quite a lot of news in the other lighting round, but we should start with the fact that i'm using samsung decks.

Well, first, I should say we should actually start with an apology, which is that I made certain promises on this show two weeks ago to hold you to a standard of using decks on the podcast. And I did not do that. I abdicated my responsibility in bullying you into using this incense set up that you have going on um and on youtube there were several people who were very upset with us and so um I just want to press whatever needed ze about to say as the thirty minutes before we started recording this podcast were spent with miley and liam or producer attempting to make this thing that is happening now work.

So if you are listening, if you're in your card, close your eyes, pull over, close your eyes. And we just imagine my set up dell monitor. Pretty nice to monitor.

Actually, we just stole IT from a desk laam. Just wander the office and took the nicest you could find is connected to A U S, B, C. Hub, which is connected to a dead bluetooth keyboard that is not charging by being logged into the hub. And a wired mouse in the tracking speed of the mouse is out of control.

This computers almost unusable because the tracking speed of this mouse said at work twenty, it's out of control and then that's all lied into a galaxy fold five with a deep skin on its our custom d brand skin to start out the verge stock com put up for me and I am in IT man and i'm just run in multi windows yeah uh, my dream, Alexis, only this, my dream Alexis, that I would commute with nothing, no bag, no laptop. I would just have the fold. I would do phone stuff on the train. I would tell David that his humane league was clunk y, just for my my folding tablet that I would get to the office and I would use decks. And this would be my computer at work in alex, I just want to you to tell the people what you said immediately upon seeing this set up.

Just that looks stupid. I I actually I don't remember .

exactly .

what I said. Yeah, the only thing that could possibly be stupider is like a screenless thing on your label. I think that you're using, but you're not using that.

So I wish I had one, but we never will. That seems clear, right? I'm using dex.

We're going to get through the shown nuts with decks. It's not unusable. I would say .

the monitor gorges display .

that we again just boosted from the working space in this office with without asking anyone uh that's great. Um even it's basically just a chrome book that sucks.

Nei has the exact energy of the person who brings an imac to starbucks and plugs IT in like that. That's the vibe that i'm getting right now.

Yeah you got to bring this whole set up to starbucks. That's when we will really appreciate that.

right? We're going to try to get to the door. So I start with humane.

There's where to take the first at break in the show. My lapp is one hundred percent coming. Just want you all to know this. Also just remind everyone, I truly dislike using this phone because of the jewell's scrolling. Nothing about this plan was a good idea.

I like that I don't need my laptop open because the screen is so large.

I see the whole run down. Yeah, this is a good case for having a big screen. Yeah, not a folding phone that runs start of humane.

There's a lot of drama with humane right now. We do a lot of big splashy launch features. David has written a billion of them.

I have written half a billion of them. They're fun to do. I appreciate the people do. It's great, great. This company, just from the jump, has communicated about itself in the weirdest way possible. And then they are just gna say that if d they invited due to california and then ghosted you and you are not at the, they disinvited you from the event, which is crazy. And we know a lot about the reporters and reviewers were not there either.

Yeah, this is a weird situation that I still trying to wrap my her around because on the one hand, like I think a majority of people who work at humane used to work at apple. Um so there's a real apple like aesthetic and ethos and way of thinking about the world and apple is a famously secretive company that has weird ideas about how to sort of bring people in on what he wants to do and that's all fine and good, right?

Like apple, apple does things that don't way and that works fine. But then also humane has been doing this thing where I think for eight months now, he has been sort of slowly trickling out information about the device. And one of the things we're going to get in to this, but one of the most fascinating things about this launched to me, was that it's functionally the same thing that in watch out, gery, the cofounder, did on the ted stage like six months ago.

Like the features are the same, the device is the same. Like my guy just launched IT then, and IT has really not changed all that much since then, which is really as any. But yes, so they were supposed to be uh a kind of launch thing ahead of the event and then that had changed after the event.

And that are much people got disinvited from that. And what seems very clear is that humane is not interested in product reviewers getting their hands on this thing at this time. Even the people they gave this sort of big splashy stories to a like wire had a good story.

The times had a big giant profiling thing, the lost your journal got a story ahead of time. They weren't out to photographed the thing. They weren't allowed to like talk that much about how to use IT.

No one is really trying this thing. It's a strange thing that is happening right now where IT is both the'd launched product they've been talking about for many months and also seems to be not close to being finished already for public consumption. It's very strange. Yeah.

a lot of the features were just theyd be like they're coming soon. They're coming soon.

Yeah like recording video is coming in a software like that's a pretty basic thing to get right on your camera.

So we have obvious ly talked a lot about human. David was invited to event god disinvited in the last night, totally separate from all of that and the other reviewers we know who didn't get to cover the thing who was all league to us. Yes, which is what happens.

That's life. And i'll take the league every time. Uh, so we know a lot about this thing and there are no surprises.

I think most leagues we got all of the least we got we're dead on accurate today. So the basics are pretty. They're understandable.

And then what's not understandable as the device at all? So the basics are it's a smart phone, right? It's a com, a qual cocom processor.

They didn't say which one, but whatever. Uh, it's got a camera. IT has a personal speaker that creates a bubble of sound which no one has experienced.

IT has the laser projector, which we've seen. IT needs wireless service. Obviously, theyve partnered with t moo, which is really interesting and it's not just team mobs like they have their own wireless network like in M V N O.

So you know how to visible as verizon yeah we've got that but it's humane. And see, you get a phone number, you can get text, you a Green bubble. We shock about that um you get data and you get cloud storage ing, get access to open a eye in microsoft models in in their sides. They had google in slack importantly.

title and it's ways about the same as a tennis ball OK. That's the part that's really i'm hanging up on because like my mom gave me this beautiful pen earlier this year, that also is about the same as a tennis ball. And I G I wanted wear this really pretty penis.

This big gold pen is core. I want to wear IT. I can't wear IT with anything because fabrics like just crumble under IT. And you can see that with wildness. And you can see that in the video.

You can see IT in the new york times piece too, where it's just like the the fabric around the pin is just crumbling around the weight of the pin. And I like, okay, so this won't work with the t shirt. This is gonna rag the whole side down.

Like, you can watch him and he's waring a shirt his whole side, like one side of the colors dragging down from this thing. Why would you? No, like, what's that? I don't want that.

Well, you ve got got into the battery.

Oh, sorry, sorry.

I think it's it's a tennis ball without the batteries. So I would say a huge part of the humane story is what you might call self seriousness. There are other words you could use, but self seriousness, I think, really captures because I think they're sincere.

yes. And I think that means they're blinded by some of the inherent absurdities of the product. And i'll just give you this example, which is made me gago all day. And this is very clever. Again, I think there's sincere I think they came up with the solutions, very clever.

The thing obviously choose through battery yeah because it's small and IT has an always on wireless connection and it's running GPT and scatter around the mix and IT has a lazer projector in IT. So instead of making a big, they're doing in inductive battery, that is the clip yeah. So the back of the magnetized clip contains the battery or more battery so and you can swap them.

So the computer part has a battery IT. And then the back of the thing is called the battery booster that you can hot swap them because the computer part has battery. Yeah, this is very clever.

I don't want to take one once. If you were to solve this problem is very clever. They're doing this cool, inductive thing.

Many questions. If the fabric is really thick, is that lower the transfer power like all the stuff. But whatever, it's very clever to mae. I just watch this video.

They're like this is a perpetual power system and it's like my guys, it's battery like is my anchor USB c battery pack a perpetual power system? Yeah and I think the answers, yes, the apple mag safe battery attachment is a perpetual bet. Like what are we doing like the the over talking of the product is out of control.

I didn't David say that most of the people that you may use to work at apple. So doesn't that explain the branding? Yeah.

I kind of reminded me of a lot of times you you'll get a really good writer there in the world like writing like A T, V show. And they go and they read at this really cool T, V show and you're like, oh, man, I wish they ran that show that would be so cool as that. He just being like a writer. I want them to run IT and then they go and they run IT and no one's there to say, hey, that's a bad idea and so you just get on filter writer and that I .

felt to say, I would suggest the exact opposite happened, oh, what you made.

okay? You think these are the bad writers?

No, I think the immersion and and bethnal, the two leaders, the company works at apple, that they have a long history. They have built some amazing things. Their names are on some very important technologies.

I am just to read you this. Section from the time file, which I encourage everyone treat. And again, I began, I mean, I can see IT by saying we have written a lot of access based launch features.

I love them. I love doing them. I love reading them there. There are some of the most fun things you can do.

I've know s against IT, but you add the self seriousness of humane to the institutional self seriousness of the times. And it's a gold, like every line of this is gold. So we know, like the writer know, and told them to stop.

In fact, the exact opposite happened. A budd's monk named brother sphere LED them to humane. Mister chattery miss on juno had developed concepts for two AI products, a women's health device in the pin.

Brothers spirit, whom they had met through their acute untrue, recommended that they share these ideas with his friend mark pennie, the founder of sales force, sitting beneath a palm m tree on a Cliff above the ocean at mr. Bennie, hawaii home, they explained both devices. This one, mister bedding offset pointing at the pin as dolphins breached to the surfer below is huge. It's going to be a massive company, he said.

He's right about one thing. IT is huge.

I just want to know the dolphins thing passed the times fact track. Do three sources on the dolphins are incredible. The best part about that whole thing, by the way, is that been off once time magazine and then time magazines, just like immediately named the a ion best invention twenty twenty three like before the yes, it's good.

All that's great. That's what I mean myself seriousness like maybe essentially cool maybe having a voice assistant that talks to ChatGPT this a relevant idea. It's seven hundred hours, cost twenty four hours a month. I I I think the .

the like very basic thing, like if you describe as the way you just described IT, which is A A voice, a system for talking to ChatGPT, I think that is like a real thing that a lot of people are going to have at some point in very in your future. That makes perfect sense to me. Like I have talked to a lot of people who think that there is a really interesting set of hardware to be made around some of these A I things.

We heard about sam alt men and john y, i've working on some of this stuff together, like how do you access these language models from an interface? Is super interesting. What this feels like to me is like, do you member that period of samsung, where they never said no to anything, that I was like any engineer and product manager who was like, I have an idea about how something should work and where a button should go, they just said, yes. So there were forty thousand ways to do everything and none of IT actually made any sort of coherent sense. That's what this seems like to me as they like built a bunch of tech demos and then we're just like, yes.

this is IT. Well, I know it's yes to anything but a screen, right, right? Because there's one really easy way to interact with AI chatbot and it's the ChatGPT APP on the iphone.

You can just get IT. yeah. What is IT? IT works pretty well. Also has really .

good voice assistant. I, alex, do I have both used the rabbit from Better? I like them.

I was wearing them on the way to work today. They were great. I infinitely prefer that to this. What about you as a way for accessing voice.

for accessing voice that helps to have something that can sit on your body that isn't dependent on the clothes where I would say yes. And you know, speaking of sam altman nei, what does sam altman say about human in the times?

Peace time is so good so sam moment is .

is a large investor in humane and and and seeing .

ly every other A I thing happening, right? Anybody he's making up hardware like yp sams there.

right. But yeah so I was talking to our friend janter n at the journal um SHE also did not get to interact with the AI pin when I say like they didn't want review. Worse there, people who are really asked technical questions about how things work.

They got reporters there in very good reporters. One to this, I mean, it's just a different skill set, a different mindset, whatever. No reviewers have seen this thing.

Tech reporters have seen that they rote. That's great. And many news have a split between news interviews.

We kind of don't. That's where tech publications different. But john, I didn't get to go and see IT. And so SHE and I was just talking about all of this. And SHE pointed out that sammon and investor and humane was on stage with her her conference a last month and he he asked him if he was going to make a phone and he said, no, phones are great. There's no point competing with phone. And then there's these rumors he's working in Johnson eve and he said, like murad and he said, I think there's something great to do in A I hardware, but I don't know what IT is yet.

which is like a to go.

I do you think it's the company you invest in? Maybe maybe it's just taking shots today in the times, isn't investors. The times talked to him and I would say, waffled.

No guarantee of success that will be up to customers to decide. Maybe it's a bridge too far or maybe people like this is Better than my phone. And then he says, sometimes plenty of technology that looks like a sure bet ends up selling for ninety percent off .

at best by what is the zone would like.

I'll talk more about .

this later, but I was with sam on monday. I'd OpenAI. He talked about consumer hardwork.

He didn't mention humane, and this was days ahead of the public. Everyone knew humane was about a long. He didn't acknowledge IT, but he got asked about this. We can talk more about the slater, but yes, there is this very interesting pressure happening where people are talking about how can OpenAI intersect with a consumer device. And sam does not seem to think humane .

is not because .

he's invested in this. And also like there's A A necklace too, like an A I powered neckless and .

it's like the rewind der yeah wind something .

yeah wended .

ah this is great.

And what they're all trying to run away from is the phone yeah because the second you put a screwin on IT this, you've made a little phone. And then when you made a little phone and we've seen this with every other little phone, you've got a to have instagram, you've right you bank apps have to be there.

All the stuff the people cycle phones just come for the package you have to deal with whatever applicant google are doing in their trial this week. You you can't like it's too hard. That mountain is too high to climb.

So you take the screen off IT. You're like in again in the time spent in all of the marketing for the pin, they're like this is to solve your relationship with your phone, and they are very clear that you should not need a phone, right? The year seven hundred dollars, that's the cost of a phone.

Twenty four dollars a month. That's the cost of a data plan. If you've got this and your phone in your pocket, you'll doing something wrong.

They sent mixed messages there because in the new york times ece, they ended with saying we're still using our phones. We just be used them differently A O but we're still using them. I mean, I guess you were also still using a phone .

just so they didn't answer some questions uh, in the presentation today that i've had for a long time. How does he know your context? If you want to make a call, where do your photos go? All the stuff when you set up, when you go to order one, you uh, import on your context and then IT arrives with your context preloaded. This this is what they wanted to do. Uh then then there's a website I called humane center where photos are in your videos are, well, your videos, when video recording is released, that happened.

What happens if I meet someone and I add their contact? How do I do that? How does them get on the pen?

Chest bump?

I don't know. Mean, these are all, these are all questions that like phones have solved really well. And I think this is why when people ask all them about IT, he knows that whatever AI device arrives is onna sit right next year? phone? yeah.

And also, what is the phone? This thing comes with a phone number. IT makes calls is a phone.

It's a screenless phone. They made a screenless phone. So let's up calling IT anything else but that.

R I don't think the idea that you have to have this end, your phone is like a huge strike against human. I think we're in this phase now where I think every gadget maker is out there trying to sort of disorder mediate the phone with the recognized like you're going to keep having your phone in your pocket.

What can we give you that is Better and faster? And like it's certainly true that if you want to ask ChatGPT a question, the pin is going to be a fashion way to do IT than your phone. And that's meaningful, that real.

You don't have to fish a thing at your pocket. You don't have to unlock a thing. You don't have to open an that's a Better system.

right, until that thing is built into your airports. That art is you can already with shortcuts on IOS. You can already ask ChatGPT things through your airports.

No, alex, the minute a sentence starts with shortcuts on IOS, like like, oh.

so so that's harder for you than buying in eight hundred dollar pin that you have to sink on the web and that pay of month no.

alex, you can listen the title .

on IT forgot about title yeah the .

personal speakers. But no, but I think the the problem with a thing like this and a problem with a lot of these LLM is they don't do anything. They're really good like information retrieval systems, and they're useful for generating text and images.

But like I I want to I want to add to my context, that is not a thing ChatGPT is capable of and humane is gonna try to be the platform for all of that in the same way that open a eyes is trying to be the platform for that. Like the real race underlying all of this is to be the AI apps like that is that is the fight here, and everybody wants to do IT. And until someone wins that battle, the list of things you can actually do by interacting .

with l is pretty small. We're going to get because that's the the eye story, right? David, David, very important here, which is that, you know you think ChatGPT is a good information retrieval system.

I would argue that it's not. And the problem with this humane product is that it's core tech, which is like talk to OpenAI. Guess what? ChatGPT makes shit up all the time like and they know this.

And sam talked about this with me and other reporters on monday and he doesn't think this problem will be solved for like three years. So this is so this is a dev buying where the primary interface information retrieval system, the people who designed IT know that IT has still a huge accuracy problem. I was using ChatGPT to try to do some earnings coverage. IT just made the financial up for .

the company of us.

So, so imagine walking around and this is your only device on you and you ask IT something and it's like, yeah take a love to go here and you end up like walking into oncoming traffic.

right? So this this is another important point, which is we still don't know hot works like even in all the coverage you can read and in their demos, we don't know like is IT open a eye underneath IT in the press release. IT just says microsoft and OpenAI models doesn't say which once .

they said in a couple of the stories that it's it's ChatGPT primarily. So I think I think we can .

fairly safely assume it's a chasing the API P A.

right. Then there's the google logo, sit right. Air pressures and I don't know why. Then they claim they have their own platform called my AI. And IT is all just ChatGPT and .

it's all cloud based, right?

Yeah which I think is also why IT burns through batteries.

IT burns through batteries, ies and IT also that just cuts off a huge user rate is a tons of people who can't have ready access to the cloud all the time, right? Lake internet is inconsistent.

They we're going to buy IT anyway.

The people in rural america, you think they were not watching the .

companies show to see IT like oh my god, really ah it's just like even that stuff, right primarily the ChatGPT A P I. That's what we think IT is. We don't know. No ones actually use IT to figure out its limits. No one's actually used IT to figure out if when you ask for for jacks, IT falls back to google maps or something like or being a map or whatever acquisition like microsoft made to the note deal five hundred years ago that they forgot about that still runs and somehow makes five million dollars, which is the true story of many max acclimation. Um in because doesn't have a screen, you the user will never know, you will ask you a question that I can never tell you how arrived at the answer, which has been a problem with voice assistants in general for a very long time.

I could list sources but still like I don't will talk more about the site. I don't trust ChatGPT for like information because IT hlubi ates. And so if you're thinking date like tactically, this is my new phone.

This is how i'm going to interact with the internet. The main way that you're doing that you cannot inherently trust. What is being said back to you? How is that a replacement for the devices we already have that doesn't make sense yet.

There's this interesting moment in the the demo video that they put out, which everyone should watch. Its wild realized suggestion for me to watch IT IT to x speed, at which this seems like Normal speed, which is good vice. But there's this one moment in IT where he holds up, I think, a book to the pin uh and says how much this cost online, demonstrating the shopping features and he like how much this has cost online and IT responds IT cost twenty eight dollars online and he says by IT and that's the end of the demo and it's like I have million questions between here and there a like there's only one Price on the whole internet for this thing.

Where is that Price come from? Where I buying IT from? How fast is you going to ship? Where's IT going to ship? Which credit or to use? Like amazon has gone through this problem where if you just say to your ego speaker by toilet paper, IT turns out that actually takes you through a flow that you will understand and can go wrong in a thousand ways, and people don't do IT as a result. And the idea that humane is going for is to abstract even more of that away, and to just say, all you have to do is just described, ed to this thing, what you know, accomplish in the world, and that will do IT for you. And I think that's a super interesting and completely impossible.

The the Price of mine is twenty dollars. Like is IT amazon? Do you think amazon is the the only store is who knows? ebay? Who knows?

Maybe it's an artist and .

it's like by doing this mi signing for whoever humane has decided to let ref share partner with in order to be able to do this, should I be able to choose? And at that point, if I am choosing, what are we accomplishing by abstracting all of this way? There's just no version of this that feels good in the way that you kind of wit.

And by the way, the book is an easy example in the sort of medium scheme of things because the book has a barcode and made a bark of a barcode. Maybe can see the title writers structure data on and around the book. There's another part of that demo where he just holds up handful of almonds, and he says, how many, how much protein is in these omens.

And IT just tells him its fifteen grams. And I did IT count the omens. I pointed out I must be canon omens and liam said or attacked ally, you d want to away the almonds, right? Because you're inside of that ChatGPT just making up uh grams per omand yes, ravers and then spitting out a number .

amount of protein using a dubiously uh data collected source that could be accurate or could not be accurate. Not know and it's right.

All you've made is like a very complicated loser and you don't know if it's counting the almost accurate that's weird.

Yeah I mean, I mean, good.

There's no structure data about the almonds.

There are I mean, there are a million holes you can poke in the thing, and I think we're doing that appropriately. I think the direction he may is trying to go here is really interesting. And I want to have competing visions for where computing is going in the world because everyone else, meta, extra apple, they think the future of computing is more visuals in your eyes, right? Like literally augmenting over the world.

And you may not saying, no, we think actually computing should be recess more into the background and you should interact your voice. And it's more of that Spike Jones, her future. And I think those different directions need to exist.

People need to be building those different directions. IT just feels very early. This feels like general magic or magically, there are ton of examples of companies that were just too early to the tack. And I think this is the case here.

No, i'll I make a big distinction between those things because we now we're old and we know a bunch external people. They were very sincere. Tony fidel, friend to the show, is part of the general magic story.

He financed the documentary, a self serving documentary, but you will take because they all come out as heroes, like in the end. But it's it's a fun watch. And I encourage to go watch my document.

They were nerds, but huge nerds. And they did not think they were cool, and they thought they were inventing the future fine. But at the end of the day, they work like .

silly nerds. They didn't put their .

pen on like .

fashion models.

And parma's huge nods obviously took themselves so .

seriously. Well, they blue beyond they .

had a fever down there for damage. Um I think David got a demo. I once ince, he got out at some point.

David, I got a demo. IT wasn't I didn't get the full treatment, but I did get to try at one point.

Ah they said things like we're hacking the GPU of the mind which is such an incredible phrase they promise to reinvent a all of entertainment, all of technology that this thing was in. They got so far ahead of the technology with the hype in the seriousness that there was no way the product could have lived up to their own ideas.

General magic was early, but they were they knew that there was a thing that they were trying to get to that was far away from where they were. And they were honest about IT. I think in if that the spectrum of companies that are too early, like sincere nerds trying to build the future and they are aware their library kind of silan honest about IT, and we've hype ourselves so much that nothing we invent can meet the standard like humane is beyond that. You think it's beyond magically? I think it's beyond magically.

Wo but IT actually is .

because they they're out there, they have their employees. Example people in the press today saying they they had retired from apple and they joined humane because they were disgusted with having invented the iphone and destroyed society. And humane is their chance to like reset.

It's like you guys, I don't even know if it's counting the omens like what bookstore it's like. That's crazy if you if your positioning is that this will rescue us from the phone, but you've made a phone, nothing. There's there's no product that can fill the hole that they are drawing, right? And that is the issue, I think, with the the product itself in many big ways, but also like how they're putting IT out into market.

But this is also this is just the world we live in now. I mean, I think about like coral pay and nothing like he's running around being like there are no interesting consumer electronics companies left in a isn't true. But you have to like you have to tell this big grand story about yourself and how you are changing in the world.

And I we still live in the we're making the world a Better place thing which you would think silicon valley would have killed like by just being on that T V. Show, but IT didn't. And so I think honestly, like the the single worst thing that apple has done to tech culture is convinced everybody that this is the right way to talk about your products, that everything has to be finished, everything has to appear as if IT was inevitable and just sort of rose out of the ground.

This perfect finish product that we have solved every problem that has ever existed in the world. And there are no companies anymore who are making things being like we made this. We don't know if it's any good.

Do you want IT? Ironically, OpenAI is probably the closest thing to that right now. Yes, but it's it's just not it's just not how this works anymore.

And the playbook works so well for apple that if you are a company who raised a lot. Money and would like to make a lot of money. You just follow the apple playbook. And I think the thing we've earned over and over that IT doesn't work for anybody other than apple. I don't think .

this is fair because there are a lot of interesting to protect companies that aren't doing this. They're not based on silicon belley. There's they're not in this like weird investor ecosystem, right, where where there's almost the demand from their investors to ship something and to change the world at the same time, right? Like there's plenty of weird tablets in china. China is doing a lot of cool consumer tech and not promising to change the world with their steam technical.

There be amazing if apples like we made these game lights, yeah, there are awesome.

They're just cool. Yeah never going to do that. But if you go .

back to like the launch of the original iphone, Steve jobs, he didn't say it's gona change the world. He was like, here are three things that can do well.

He did start with today apple reinvents .

the phone but that's .

but that's his .

arms outstretch. I would argue that's different than what he means doing and what magically did, which is like it's the hubris, right? And apple has hubris on, you know they have tones of IT and Steve jobs, the king of hubris ah you go back to that original iphone there was like an almost weird humility with the bris, right? IT was like, we actually just focusing on what he does.

And what I did was such a aha moment. Everybody in the room was like, oh my god, these three things together in a mobile form factor. Yes, you didn't have to over explain IT where's like humane.

They can't explain IT like because it's it's incomprehensible. There is it's an idea in search of a product, right? And and I think that was that the key difference here between like the early apple, we're apple is now and humane.

I think so here's a question I have for you, alex, just inking about the cycle. OpenAI is in the brothers spirit, the butt sunk. Introduce them to mark any off in twenty eighteen.

The connection, by the way, made through the active, punctual, very this is all very important detail. Twenty eighteen has a long time ago, yes, to start work on this pin. OpenAI was nowhere in two thousand eighteen, right? The the first climbers of the things were happening.

They were research projects. Yeah, they were maybe sixty people at that point. yeah.

And they were still of focused on not a commercial company. So if you're making this product in twenty eight and of this vision, what is the technology that you're basing this on? What have theyve been working on?

All I know there's a pivot .

that's that's contained in the story of this product where they're like you're going to talk to ChatGPT and that's the thing that's going to salad, right? Because that's what we're talking about today. In twenty teen, you could not begin work on that product.

Chat didn't exist. Chat b me a barely existed a year ago.

This was totally gonna be like an android product until open a eyes pop off, right, like that, that had stuff in. What happened they were they're building their own little android dum like dumb phone because is effectively a dumb phone, right? And and then OpenAIr p opped o ff a nd t hey w ere l ike, oh, finally, we have something cool to attach this too to ship IT. So we're not just like we did a phone, but it's a pin and not really a good .

phone yeah I don't not just i'm thinking about this chronology. It's like in two thousand and when you set up to make this product, you cannot assume that there will be an L L explosion in ID twenty twenty three.

no.

But you can act as a whole product.

But you assume google was doing google a lot at that point, right? They were doing a lot about visual identity, like like being able to visually ID things with the camera. They're doing a lot about being able to just talk and and have those natural conversations with google assistant, like all of that was happening in twenty eighteen. So I that's why I am fully convinced that at some point, we're going to find out that this was originally .

an android product. I mean, it's an android product now like the thing the thing runs android. I think you're exactly right. I think if you if you rewind five years, they're looking at voice assistance and google lens and some of these other like what can we do without putting a scream and a bunch of apps on your smart phone, which in the abstract like heat is maintain, is a really interesting and valuable question like this is if we should be talking about because the idea that the like platonic ideal of how we interact with technology is like a grid of icons on a screen is just not true. And we we should be expLoring all these things.

But I do think it's very clear that at some point along the way they went from, we're going to have to cobble together a bunch of different things and probably invent a bunch of technology yourselves to just this is now we are an interface company on top of ChatGPT, which is functional. What this is, this is this is a it's a revolutionary input device on par with the with the keyboard and mass for ChatGPT. Like that's what they are trying to build.

They make a big songs and dance about all these yourself. They can do. But this is functionally a way to input things to ChatGPT is what this service exists to .

do this real digital crown moment.

You know, any minute apple is going to do a partnership with one of these companies with camp by themselves because of all the privacy reasons. And they will say, if you wanted use the gib t your apple watch can do IT and at all the end of the a ipad oh.

I will take the opposite side of that that yeah about money that they will not yeah because because of the because of the privacy reason, you decided they will not do this as an external part.

But we are watching this in the trial right now where tim cook and sender appear tire are in meetings discussing their search deal. And apples like your services can begin, where are limitations and so you can swell. They could say, well, that there's an important fact there.

which is that google is paying apple on the order of twenty billion dollars a year. So yes, if someone is paying you, you know twenty person of your profit margin, yeah uh, sure. You can have deep partnerships.

You don't think OpenAI and microsoft, you're you're going to throw that money like that. So what I mean, the second apple gets over IT, and there's a few ways to make get over. They can invent a privacy focused on them very hard inside your values. You could take the money is IT true. Or you can do, uh, shortcuts with David is favorite .

love shortcuts.

But like always saying, there is a big action bot on the side of my watch and there's a lot of different ways for that thing to trigger talk to ChatGPT, right? There's there's many methods by which that button can can do the thing in at that moment, the value of seven hundred dollars post another twenty four dollars of service fees a month begins to slide.

If I hold my phone just right, I can do the shortcuts method with ChatGPT in the Robins yeah and and .

they're adding so trans they're adding uh, early next year, uh, zk berg was talking me about this one. Interviewed M, I had a connector going to do a software update for the ray bands. Where is a visual recognition? So in the interview, he was like, you just just look at the camera and say, what is that camera? Where can I buy IT? And he didn't say buy IT. He said, where can I buy IT? And because so that's that's a much more, I think, compelling because it's on you .

right and keep you .

go to the beach.

you don't have to worry about where you're going.

Na pin IT IT turns out shot your head is on you all the time, and you can have stuff on your head all the time no matter what you're wearing. It's actually a really cool human feature OK.

This brings me to the last thing I want to talk in the sequence, which is a graph that's in my head at all times. There are why there's a why i'm i'm going to label the graph is to pull over in your car. And I want you to imagine access OK. And I ve worked this out because I was on thread last night, people really helping figure this out. This is the formula of wearable product success.

Yeah, I I W on OK.

It's actually .

way access IT does not .

matter what child, the why access is call IT OK is amount. I have to care about this shit, right? Times face multiple is IT on .

my face .

OK OK and is IT A V R. Heads that so is IT on my face and is like a cool pair sunlounger low face multiple is IT on my face. And it's the meta quest pro enormous face multiple yeah that is not on your face, on the risk, no face motile okay, got me, got IT see OK so that's that's just one vary.

Yeah, you got to decide for yourself in the glasses how much try to care about IT is is this a tiny little computer? Do I got a software update plugged in the battery charger? Does IT beep computer stuff?

yeah. And you got to decide, is that we are to get the photos of IT? Yeah, all in the first factor.

yeah. So fit linear time is IT face? That's one access. okay. And in the x access is how useful is IT OK OK? So x is greater than or equal to y.

So there's a line at forty five degrees and IT gets good. And if it's lower, your tubed. So like regular glasses, right? Alexa, ring some glasses. You got to think about them never right, low number times on your face, low number because you have call glasses value very high. So you're like historic success.

right? Okay, see, I didn't do well math in school, but I I think i'm tracking with .

you you you know in nei.

I also describing a graph that has like six or seven times .

a good greater than .

or then how useful is i'm going to make a GPT for this where you can just i'm just saying the only real variable here is face. Okay, it's really just faith is IT on your face and then it's got to be super valuable, right? A apple watch, lot of fitter's bits of the begin low value.

not on your face, not on your face.

But I still didn't do a lot at the beginning. You could like send fluid heart bates to people who maybe don't want them, right? And they figured that out, and they brought IT up above the curve and out, such kind of fitting, too.

yes. Success OK mea quest pro fitness st product in the world gigging tic face multiple. No value, no value, not a success.

They won't even talk about anymore. You see, i'm saying, so humane A I pen, very fitly. No face, multiple unclear value.

Big question mark. yeah. Vision pro, enormous face, multiple on the order of they put another face on your face, right? yeah.

Huge problem there. Very fitting. Ly, we think, or perhaps not because it's kind of stand alone, unclear fillin. Ss, unclear value.

X, it's an x.

The value is, who knows? I am just telling, this works every time. Wow, someone's going to animate this graph and is still to be amazing.

But I promise you, if you just work this out for any product, you get there. So the meta glasses, people like them, right? yeah.

see. Do IT they look cool? No face multiple ally liam .

comply in mind today before he saw the little knew ah so medium .

face motile because people like even even washing me to creep, it's a problem um but they look cool yeah and then they're fun right because they have good music theyve got great homies. You should watch that video with bea. They're useful. They're useful right on the line of success. okay?

I might chAllenge to any verge castle and right now who's playing with ChatGPT s GPT builder is to make a GPT based on what me I just said, send IT to us and it's going to be amazing .

fillin ss times face multiple asked to be less than or equal to.

how useful is that? What does this bott called realize realize gadget or realize .

wearable .

me indicator horrible me.

the theory of a wearable.

That's the episode title. Yeah.

that needs a name. I'm just like you. I've been working this out on the show forever.

And last night I finally clicked when I looked at the humane pen. Where else like oh, it's not on your face that changes the whole equation. But then IT is all the other things that IT is. I was disgusted by my work on the iphone, so instead I made a little laser projector that you have to look.

there's no instagram. Can't do instagram with lasers. You didn't work this thing silly.

They should let, they should let us in other reviewers actually into IT, and they should have being less so serious about IT is what i'll say. I'm excited to play with one. I think we're all excited about new gadgets all the time.

I want to see how the speakers work.

I want to persons speakers.

yeah, I want to see. I want you and I both to have one, and see if we can hear each other, others.

That's me. The .

worst .

title, four feet apart.

I mean, I will say again to go back to the meta things on that, like i've seen a bunch people be like, oh, the personal speaker. This is the thing that the smart glasses have been doing for a while. They say personal directed audio that you can hear and other people don't is like relatively proven technology.

Yeah, I do this and I hear so well with the rabs.

Yeah.

on the train like this.

Ah the projector is what I want to try. I want to. I'm going to a concert friday.

I wish I had this so that during the concert I could just hold my hand out and IT just like matrix displays. Are you going to a concert? sucks. Is anyone else gna be there? No, just, I just want to do IT to get .

the reaction around me. know. 好是 真的 是。

I just assume it's very bright.

I brought my .

own laser show. Yes.

that would be actually be sick. Okay, here's the killer for the humane open personal laser show.

Oh yeah, imagine cold playe. And instead of the debris they give you is just the pins. Well.

yeah, this is a good time to mete.

ga.

Labs had board N. F, T. Party, and they bought the wrong EV lights, and they burnt everyone's eyes.

Maybe don't do the laser shopping, just idea. We got to take a break. That's a true story, but of in heart breaking.

Check your new village. We will take break with your backtalk about opening. Do that.

Support for the show comes from clavo you're building a business clavo helps you grow IT cabos, A I powered marketing platform, puts all your customer data plus email, email and analytics in one place with cabo tend fish on fish wife delivers real time personalized experiences that keeps their customers hooked. They've grown seventy times revenue in just four years with clivia. Now that's scale. Visit K L A B I Y O dot com to learn how brands like fish wife build smarter digital relationships with cava.

Hey, its', from decoder with the liptak, we spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why do they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing the special series diving into summer, the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listening to you right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with this acquisition this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license can hire away co founders? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month. I'm deter with the light presented by strike. You can listen to decoder whatever you get your A.

Reback, let's however, this time more software, but the future of software, a very exciting way. Alex, you went to open an eye v day this week. They have asked a bunch of stuff.

Take a thread. yeah. So this was in downtown seven from cisco monday, and this was OpenAI first big conference. And when I was going to IT like realizing that ChatGPT is not even a year old at this point, like blue, my mind, and then you get there and they have about thousand developers there. And I just had this energy of going into the announcement.

But I think it's important like contextualize the energy IT felt like the early apple events IT felt like this buzz that you know, we had that a little that I think David and I you are there two for the vision pro unveil ing that had of a special kind of fuel because, you know people had high hopes for apple family doing a big new thing. But like this just felt like something I haven't experiences since like early mac words um and you get in and I mean they did a really nice key out IT was about in our a half worth of content packed into like a tight forty five minutes with like real live demos. Like there was a moment where they were showing off like a apian integration where you could like have a bott you make you know text someone or send them a slack g based on what you tell IT.

And like they're doing IT on stage live, they're building the thing and like a minute. And then like IT sends the pink, the sam and he's on the other side of stage. He just holds us phone up and is like, yeah got IT like like I I really don't like the direction the industries is going. Thanks to apple words, these highly produced prerecorded keynotes that are really just like becoming marketing videos.

I think we saw that with the last map event especially um so OpenAI felt like this return to form that was like, wow, this feels good um in terms of what they announce um IT was a lot, I mean, I think like the most immediate thing that the developers were like freaking out about and like they had to tell going to like stop clapping because they kept clapped over over was just like making GPT cheaper to use as a developer. So it's like three times cheaper. They have got GDP for turbo, which um apparently people really want larger context windows, which is the ability to upload more text tokens to these models and do more with them.

So I think the limit was around like twenty H K max before and now it's like a hundred and twenty eight plus k uh context window. So you could put a book in this thing and have to do all kinds of things. People get really excited about that. Um and then a bunch of like kind of more developer focused on for right is a developer conference. The biggest thing that was this new A I platform.

I mean, really what OpenAI wants to become and I wrote about this in um command line this week, is the APP store of A I and so they've got this new GPT platform where with no coding red you can build your own GPT, upload custom knowledge and do a bunch of what is essentially like abstracting away prompt engineering right and making a very like tailor to a specific use case and do all that unlike honey ly a matter of minutes. I got a live demo of one of these things being made, and you can do IT in under five minutes and then just published to the web eventually. Uh and when I say eventually, I think you seem like a few weeks open an eyes going to have the store, the GPT store.

And that's where things get really interesting, I think because you're seeing OpenAI, not only is IT becoming A A huge developer platform and external platform that powers other things, they have over two million developers and under a year, which is just like wild, but they have got this massive growing consumer business. They have a hundred million weekly users of ChatGPT, which is like for a product that is less than a year old is just absolutely insane. That means the months are probably on the order of half a billion.

And so what they're trying to do is like aggregate that audience and also become a consumer internet platform and and have people making GPT no coding required that they then uh surface ed to people through ChatGPT and through the store. And so the store is coming very soon, but they they showed a preview of IT. And I think that's where things get really interesting.

Is that hundred billion? Is that GPT plus the paid thing?

Or that was just ChatGPT users, they can give a plus number, very important for the the custom GPT, you have to be a plus subscriber to access and build the customer. Gp, so this is all feeding that loop of like open. I think I the information reported, they're already on like a one billion a year revenue run rate with the consumer description business.

They really wanted have more reasons to pay for ChatGPT in a in an APP store in custom GPT. And again, a distracting whale that prompt engineering, they think is gonna a key unlock there. So like some of the examples were like in its multing models. So you can use dolly.

So it's like an design GPT that's like specifically for helping you figure out how to design your home or a uh, cooking one or theoretically ally here, the verge, we could upload all verge content ever made into a GPT and IT could replace search on our website. That's an idea, right? And OpenAI, which we should get into this uh, next open, I will be compensating creators of these gp s based on their usage, which I think is a very interesting distinction from other platforms.

I think two things that kind of a regular piece that is great. The two things that stuck out to me, we're won the compensation and how they are planning to do that because that seems like a mess. And also just how quickly he seemed to gloss .

over the hallucination .

problem. yeah.

Well, yes, but the difference the customer GPT is you can upload custom knowledge. So like on stage, sam made a boat and he used to be the head of y commentor, the start up incubator, and he was like, I have wanted have a boat that just tells people what I would tell start up founders, the advice I would give them for, like a decade. And he has built IT on stage in like three minutes.

And he uploaded transcripts of every talk he's given on these topics. right? So yes, it's still a problem like pollution inside, obviously still a problem. He talked about this more after the keynote de and pressing I went to but um the fact that you can augment ate with custom knowledge uh makes IT more domain specific. And so it's hopefully going to Olivia, a lot of that.

Doesn't that kind of just make IT like I think that no code part is probably the cool as part of this. But doesn't this just make IT like no code chatbot? It's like you had an aim twenty years ago, like if you can upload IT like for the same old man, one in particular.

Okay, that's really, really cool. Somebody could have done that twenty years ago. Just take them quite a bit time.

And now you have sort of a lies of problem. It's like there are some kind responses. This one is like gna talk to you like getting the finality of the conversation is higher. The thing that's really interesting to me is where are saying ox the compensation model yeah so .

open watch twenty box a month last .

yeah and then they're pregnant. What to share out some of that yet to the boat builders that's the spotify model, which is historic, right doesn't make anyone rich except spot y well.

spotify, an important distinction. There's this whole thing called the labels right that open I doesn't have to deal with because they don't pay for a lot of their content, which is something that sam did not really want to talk about. Um but yes, I actually think it's closer to youtube because the way they're going to do IT initially as they are going to share some percentage, we don't know.

We don't know if it's fixed. We don't know if it's fluctuates based on the category, but they're going to share a percentage of the companies. So open a eyes, ChatGPT subscription revenue with GPT creators and it's based on usage. So and alone was very kind of high level about this on stage.

I think they are going to share more in the next few weeks but at this prosecution went to with after uh and I rote about the command line, he elaborated and said there's going to be category specific bonuses um and that down the road, they're open to actually letting you subscribe directly to custom G P S, letting GPT creators charge one of fees for them. Um but that sounds like a lot of IT is going to get figured out and like the first few months of the store, they're rolling out with this initial kind of machine rev share thing. But IT is youtube ask, it's not apple ask because there isn't going to be like a transactional peace to this.

right? Have they asked ChatGPT itself how IT thinks IT should handle?

And this analogies are difficult because it's weird and mushy. Yeah, youtube, my most youtube s are getting a cut of the ad and there's a right sort of like infinite amount of money coming into youtube or at least an uncared amount of that advertising money coming into youtube. And that goes out right spotify as like you pay spotify premium and I know my ever increasing amount of money, I pay for responsible y premium.

I listen to a song, there are some formula, and that goes to the label on the artist and its pennies. And this feels more like that, right? I paid ChatGPT box a month. I go use a bunch of GPT. My usage gets divided up into fractions and goes to those creators and that they got the reason i'm i'm harping on this is because of what David said earlier, which is the entire game is the APP store for AI. And you cannot distribute this anywhere because the second you start doing a Better revenue model, which is just pay for the apps or pay for a substitution or have transactions, apple is going to sit there and take thirty percent away from me well, and google is going to take thirty .

percent away from you. Apple art, the apple arty is taking thirty percent of ChatGPT plus revenue on I O S, right? And I because it's if you down, if you set up on the phone so yeah, this is where I kind of like ended with command line this week is like I would love to know what apple things about all this because apple, they don't like stores within apps, not like you can ask more exec very about that one.

You can. Ca, lot of people about that one. Actually, a lot of people have tried versions of this. The only one that's gotten that through for reasons there are too complex to get into his witch in china, but I think they're onna run into a massive wall there eventually, which is apples take rate and their um historical um hatred of an APP trying to recreate any kind of a digital store experience .

and potentially having their own the AI right right and wanting their own I D to be the primary AI in the device. Because once the AI is looking at books and just buying them for you, that's a whole other world of transactions that apple can take money out of, and they're gonna want to be the primary there. So it's just to bring this together.

You can see why people want to build a nut phone. Where sam out then is investing in forty five different attempts of this and might be working with john. I ve had some attempted this. There is a massive blocker to mobile innovation here, which is that thirty percent cut. And I just don't have any sense of how anyone will actually get around IT, because building the humane AI pen or the rewind dependent or whatever john I have comes up with on the side, the phone is still to be the primary device.

Yeah, what the other part of IT is like, this is not all that different from what amazon and google are trying to do with skills for their voices system, like we've been down this road where amazon was like, okay, you're going to interact to the lex ea. We're also going to offer you lots of ways to interact with other data and other services. skills.

Is gonna a huge business that got passed? Apple IT was fine. IT just turns out nobody wanted that because IT has this discovery problem. The interface is actually not that good for IT in most ways because it's like the thing where you have to essentially say a weight word to get to the thing and then another weight word to get to the APP that you want and then talk to in a very specific way, all to route right back to you, like that float sucks.

And so I think what ChatGPT is going have to figure out is how to like, again, we're talking about abstracting all of this way. And by virtue of making you choose things, you lose that abstraction in really helpful way. Like ChatGPT, R T has these plugins, the plugins system, a perfectly useful thing, right? But I think that is one way to go down that road that doesn't work because if you can't find the stuff you have to like turn IT on every time you want to use IT, IT just doesn't work.

And I think figuring out how to do this thing they're trying to do in a way that doesn't cause those exact same problems is going to be really hard, especially because OpenAI is trying to have its cake and needed because they also wants to be the interface all of IT. Yes, IT wants to be the underlying infrastructure and the most powerful important product. And right, at some point, doing both of those becomes really, really.

really hard to do this. What altman said in the Q N, I was after his keynote, um I thought was really interesting because he gets at that tension day. With that, you talk about where OpenAI is building a platform very clearly.

They're continuing to add things into ChatGPT at different modalities, different data sets at the same time, they're saying can build on our platform, will share revenue with you, come make your own GPT uh eta and, uh, he got asked about this and he said very clearly he was like, don't build a thin rapper on top of OpenAI. We are planning to build the obvious features that you'd expect for a robust platform over time, and there's enormous value to build. So that's him just being straight up like we will probably should lock you.

Yeah and and I am going to I see a lot of parallels here to the early APP store we're going to do. I think that's okay. Like you know the early after or had a unch of flashlight outs, right? Eventually, that just became a feature on the phone and IT was a it's a Better feature as or .

as all you can go in the extra right now and downloaded a home interior APP that is a thin rapper on dully. Like, again, like we are just ward painting our house and I wanted an APP that would just like put paint colors on the wall. And like, half of them are now just down right us and they are bananas.

Like it's like to to like I don't recommend them like you have social a real while d every minute. But it's but there's obviously a market for that thing to occur right now. And maybe one day open, I will build that exact thing because it's a useful case for dolly. But in the meantime, like they're just watching a bunch of these companies try and fail, and that's useful to them in a shorter and useful of companies are making some money.

Keep thinking about all of me apps that we're going to come to this thing, right? Like there's the obvious ones where eyes and adult call its me. A lot of our Younger listeners would probably love IT is like one we'll just write your papers for you, right, that that's a thing ChatGPT can already do.

Somebody will probably make a really, really good version of IT using this. And a lot of people probably be very upset about that in demand for to be pulled down because it's helping bunch kids cheat. There's ones we're like, okay, you can have you know input some actress that you really want to talk to and then everybody's go, yeah I can go talk to that hot access and is like.

no, you can not that the character .

happen now on you open a yes, yes, right yeah .

over so that is the law will .

come down and I like, we are good weed. There is a lot of stuff on the internet that could like be used to inform a chap out about us because we write on the internet like that is a perfect example. Someone could just make a nei bot and it's. New lies writing on the verge and you ask me like questions copyright you know forever right?

Yeah and the new I thought is like, this is copyright infringement ment. But be clear well.

we how week this is a little bit of attention but like another thing open I announce this week is a copyright shield, which is a program where they will pay for any legal fees incurred by their developers for copyright claims of use of the technology. So theoretically, someone builds a nei bot. They scrape the verge for all news stories they put in the bot. Vox media goes, hey, you stoler I P and you're making money off of this because open eye paying you, we're going to sue you and open eye is saying, now we will fight all this legal, uh, yes, legal things that happen. So like I, what do you think about that?

Now that's a bad answer up. We should all just like, I just want to acknowledge .

that is a bad and I real.

That's no. There are also, there are so many interesting ways of thinking about this contact. Like alex, your paper examples are really interesting one because like you put together all that came out this week. And what's going to happen now is you're going to be able to upload your history textbook, you to a GPT, and you're going to be able to write papers from IT. That is that is now has the a big enough context window.

And if they are using this thing, it's it's like the A I term for IT is rag, which is basically like by doing this, custom knowledge are able to reduce IT all the way down just to the stuff that, you know, that IT knows, which means that pollution ates less, which is actually really important part of this. It's gonna write you a good paper based on your history text book, and that is just it's all sitting there and that's a mess in so many ways. And for OpenAI to just because I don't worry about that we have lawyers is not a good answer to the problem.

So sam was at sams exact wording on this issue was we don't like to do things that are illegal.

Could I feel cool, have same, sam.

same. But like I mean, they clearly think all this is under fair use. And there's a lot know you have talked about to show a lot of there's a lot of lawsuits right now that is a change that trying to they are going to figure this out, whether this is very use, this is happening a while. All this is going on.

It's a very that, yes. So the copier t office took comments about whether it's very used. All the big companies filed.

The comment is good. We have some of the site and the one that just stuck out was international horror. Big silk from their comment was the companies have invest billions and billions of dollars into the technology. Assume its various so it's .

very use so that I mean, they were clear they were like if this is not fair use, like these investments go as there basically IT was like I was like the whole the whole structure of all this is predicated on the idea that we can have this for free. Yes.

I know a lot of media executives they don't agree with. Yeah, but not a little bit. We had brock obama on the koto this week.

I asked him this question, like you're an author, do you think this is free because he really want to a AI and he he was like, he's a politician. He's regret to this. He's like, leave me out of IT i've sold enough books.

He watch him do IT. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. I refuse to engage this question.

And then he said, this is a speed bump. The revenue will get figured out. And so I think there's a real attention in the industry.

There is an expectation from the people who make the IP that this is yp a speed bump, that the money will sort itself out, the creators will get paid. And there is the expectation from the tech industry that they're gona get to do a google and just take IT. And my google's history is built on taking IT.

And they were the scrappy upstart when they did that. When google scrapped all the books on the internet and make google books, they got sued. But they showed up with they're like big, colorful logo in their propeller heads, literally. That image of google protected IT from these lawsuits.

When viacom shoot google over youtube for just ingesting huge amounts of via com television shows on the youtube, youtube was like, but it's so cool, like everyone loves, is that you can just watch south park for free, if welcome. As I get to the problem that they won, and they won running away, because vico was perceived as evil. And google, again, stupid logo flies in office, beni hat, and I was really useful.

That's part of the story. The rest of the story is that, uh, google had a reasonable defense, which was to say we're not the ones up letting IT and IT turns out there's like a large part of tech policy that is based on .

that specific idea. No, they when their other defense was and we built you content ID, we built you a private copyright enforcement system that is unaccountable, everyone in pieces every way off every day, right? That's the actual, that's the thing that they did to get out of that game.

Google got so much out of this in a lot ways by returning value to people like google made the case to viacom that more people are watching the icon stuff because they're finding IT on youtube. And whether that's sure or not, it's a case to make and it's on the same thing with websites, right, like they're all these issues for years about like media organza being.

Like how would we possibly that the fact that there is a constantly updated version of our entire website sitting on google servers and that's what they're crawling and serving, not our website. And what google says is we send you traffic and there's like there is some set of trades that you're willing to make there. And ChatGPT so far has not returned any value to the people whose stuff that IT is taking.

It's not directly in traffic. They're not getting money. It's just like a nifty thing that other people get to do. And I think without if I can't figure out how to make that turn back to, like here is what it's worth for you. I think it's much bigger than a speed bump.

It'll bring the whole thing down like IT is the end of the industry of this isn't for years. And the the thing for all these companies is you cannot rely on the court system to be reliable when IT comes to fear you like IT is not a stable decision making framework. IT is a coin flip, like every time IT is a coin flip even like a recent memory like I bring up this example all the time at all duty and because it's useful. And the state of Marvin gay was. Just comes up.

drink.

somebody always, me take down. I just tell the black lines case is going to go down is like the thing that happens. Maybe all technology IT did bring assembly medici.

Many things happen because of the song. They Robin thick france, sued Marvin gaze estate preventively because they thought I was so clear cut they hadn't stolen a note. He was just survive and they lost. That is a totally unpredictable result in the state of Marvin gay in boldin, goes in, sues ed sherin edge sheer and shows up in court of floppy hair and says, god, just to be IT and he wins and he .

actually took the .

car guitar.

You could use some accent work, but yeah, is all right.

He's just a floppy y guy. He's just a puppy guy.

But that is a straight coin flip. If I gave you the facts of that outside of the actual characters and said these two didn't take any of the cords or the music they took a vibe in, this guy took the actual cordts who who should win? Who should lose, right? And it's the exact opposite of what you expect.

And if you are open an eye or google any any one of these other folks, you're staring at a problem where IT is so unpredictable that you should go and make some deals just to bring some sembLance of order to this marketplace. But to what David's point is, no knows that deals worth. The second you make one deal, everyone else is gonna anna deal.

The second you make a deal, you have communicated to the world you think deals might be necessary, and everyone shows up with their hands out. Like this is classic like rock in a hard place situation for all these companies in if they end up going to court in fighting this out. No knows if you're going to get to the right answer on either side.

A couple of a co on the koto, we had record more second and SHE said, look, the music in history is like this. You sew each other in the morning and you go to dinner at night and that's how works and like you do, and they're going to have to get good at that too, because that's how we that's how we do this. And I I don't think that was ready for that.

They are not thinking about IT at all. I didn't come up on like the stage. I didn't really come up afterwards in the conversations I was hearing.

They are very focused on what is the value we can give to developers and users. And the data that is powering all of this is like something they do not want to talk about because of what we've all been saying. But I mean, I I do want to just like if to take devils advocate here, like yes, like there is a huge copyright question here generally.

I feel like with these new things, the via on youtube examples, a great example where Better product experiences tend to win in a long run, right? So and if i'm thinking about a GPT for the verge, unless i'm in kind of like discovery mode, where I just want to literally you know serve our beautiful site and look at things and I have no idea what i'm morning um I actually would love the idea of just going what should I know about the new iphone? Is that good or not? And bot just IT surface is article IT tells me, says this, this is the score, this is the history of recover cheers the links to the video or just watched the video there, like that's a pretty good experience there.

There's a lot of like finding things on the internet that like that time collapses immediately when you're using an interface like this. And that's going to, I think, provide value. yeah.

And so if you believe that, that's valuable and I think a lot of people will, and I think we're going to start seeing a lot of really interesting gp s that are doing very dubious. They are very few things but are showing like, hey, this interface is actually Better for just finding information. I do think that idea may went out the long run regardless of what happens in the short term with the legal system.

IT just feels like they're moving way too fast, like between the lying thing in the fact that they haven't figured out whether or not their wholesale ripping off a whole bunch of creators.

like what are you doing, what you mean.

what we just talked about? Like like the a lot of people are a lot of people straight up accuse them if they're injured, their stuff without paying them, that's raping them all.

Now let me give you just another example. This outside of chat me team, I think this would tiktok all the time. I keep up a list of tiktok I think should be a media phs.

It's great. One day I will publish the holiday and there's a one I could come back to, uh, hygd media, which is a great car youtube channel. I love IT.

They did a stop motion video of an engine being disassembled. Cool this out. This took forever. Like just this is making a video. An engineer disassembled such an, anyone can understand what's happening.

Takes a long time with people to do IT and stop motion like A P just obviously massive investment. And so instantly got cut up into a ten thousand different channels that reposted into ten thousand different clips, because IT looks good as hell. And if you are uniting one of these ticket channels to trying get views, you can, like some people, took clock shop.

This is, should that should any of that exist? media. P.

H. D, okay. Here's the real thing that I think about all time.

The comments on all of the tiktok that have free booted this video or this took so long, this must have been so hard to do. This is so cool. I'm so good. I spent all the time doing this. And it's like not like everyone can see the value in the difficulty of the work in no one not that a cent of that value is going back to the person that made the video right, that no one is confused, that this was like a hard thing to do.

Tiktok is making the most money in, that the free booting channel is making some money in, that the users are getting a ton of value because are seeing a video they would have never seen and the poor person would like had to move the bull like a sixteen th of an inch and then take another frame, gets nothing yeah yeah and like I keep think like I came up as a guy who when I was my short spin as all I defended, the kids who use kaa and i'm sitting here like, am I the bad guy now? Like what is going on here? Like, that's like one step too far.

And that's just with video. And everybody can understand, ever can see IT if you make a GPT in you and just all of some youtube craters videos in your ligny can talk to duck to miro and he doesn't get a like at some point you have to say this is not like fair oh, it's not even not fair use or whatever, right? It's not like outrageous.

It's something that the creator doesn't get a set. Is that in that case, youtube doesn't get a set? And guess who was a lot of a lawyers who is comfortable suing? Is google right? So like, yeah, I think open.

I is entering a world of heart here. Like I saw again, I got a of the builder and you think that the ability to upload customer knowers, they would have some pretty strange guidelines on what you can upload and maybe they scan IT. They let you put IT in the GPT to make sure it's you know not something that is like very blatantly like paid copyrighted material that is like behind a pay wall or something like that.

It's literally just the upload field is just an upload field. You can upload anything like there. There is no nothing said about like how they are going to to look for this stuff. So I don't think they're ready for what's about to happen, which is that like someone is going to be. It's just obvious like you like you take a paid product online, you pay for IT, you scrape IT, you put in into into a GPT and you make money from IT.

And it's like in that flow of events, like the value is just being stolen, right? And like an open that eyes saying at the same time, guess what? We're going to pay all your legal defenses. Yes, IT is this wild. We should just .

get open the ice suit that's being suit. They're be well, they look, i'm still on my wearyful graph. The next episode is us, just us to doing duvida.

They are oversized. No way they are getting used by artists access children of these people yeah. But this next turn, where they are offering a revenue to people to build things yeah then protecting them from the claims.

i'm going to just all of the game of thrones books and writes the final two.

I think, George, are that we just pay .

yeah I like that's .

my loophole. He should just do that. That's my George for your list thing. And I know you are. I got you, George. You you can do IT if they've expanded the field, the context when that went as bigger. George, I do think this .

is like a huge problem, but I do want acknowledge, like these G. P. Ties, they are, they're cool.

They are gonna good. People are going to like using them. The dolly stuff is wild, like just having like something that can like generate.

And like, I have this problem. I know about you guys with these these chapels, these like all in one chapters is like it's it's just a text bar. I don't know what to do with that. I don't know all the things that can do. There's this context problem with these bots like bar and all these where they can do so much that like it's overwhelming, Frankly, for me.

So having like a cooking pot that has like all the cooking information, I would want to like make recipes, I would pay separately for that because like I actually just want that I don't want to all of IT, right? And so I I do think it's a really powerful idea. And meet is doing IT.

They're going to have a bot creation platform next year. There is a character I replica. The industry seems this year to have realized that we are moving on from these like one boat to rule them all concept to like millions of bots everywhere right? Yeah and that's that's a cool idea. It's just um yeah there's all this like cyber yt problem, but I think .

is an idea just existing. Al, the actually the model thing is really interesting. They had touching adella on stage.

Microsoft y're obvious ly huge open and investor. And part of the argument that they're making is. They're all just using one big model, but they're learning to segment into these use cases. So the big model is getting Better overall, right, while people are doing these specialized things with IT.

And then on the side, microsoft research is trying to figure out if you can take small models that could run locally here on these other places and make them fully useful and like very narrow context. So you see this like kind of parallel innovation pathway work. The big model maybe can put gardens around IT and make these G, P S.

Or you can have, like the little model that just good at what he does. And there is something in the funny y thing I thought. I think the little model train microsoft is doing is one of the prompts they give IT is pretend here, the big model, which is incredible, right? It's like don't IT.

It's not impossible. It's like that thing, you know uh, it's pretty good. Um it's funny that we've had this whole conversation of a voice assistance A I I was second like we've brought up amazon in google many times, which have voice assistance, millions of them deployed in homes today and seem not ready for this next turn at all.

Open eyes moving so fast and that was just the take away from being there and like talking to developers there. And just I mean, when you think about the fact that chat P T. Is almost a year old and everything they've done in a year and everything they're just announced on stage.

And like the demand for IT, like there is a massive ChatGPT outage this week right after they announced another stuff like their servers are melting. So they have clearly like captured lightning in a bottle. It's their game to lose. I really feel that it's just a matter of the legal ramifications potentially catching up with them. And the dictionary of the store concept.

And like if you are doing a usage base system, what's to keep me from buying a bunch of bots to use my boat so that I have the most used bot? Like how do they know that it's actually real, I guess, because it's through the subscription business. But so I guess that is a good limiting factor on that. But um there's just a lot of like di like who decide i'm only imagining like ChatGPT is used to like a influence the next action and they decided demonize ze. It's like everything old is new again right?

Like yeah well that's like what is what's going to be the COO melon or ChatGPT? That's on the good side, right? That's like the biggest youtube success story ever.

Yeah enough so that disney has listed IT not owning coconut is a risk yeah because in access to youtube success story. And like on the other side is like what is the horrible White noise playlist on spotify? yes.

APP, right. That is just like zero value delivered and just sucking money out of the ecosystem in until what if I to share IT down? Yeah, I think I think yes.

And the next turn here, really, and this is what sam was telling us after the keynote, is he imagined that we will all have our own GPT, which I am really excited about. So a GPT that is trained on all of your stuff, like a the rewind idea dependent, but like all of your software, all of your you know notes and your GPT engages with other GPT on your behalf. So it's like bots all the way down talking to each other.

So it's like you tell your GPT I want to a go to see a concert and have dinner with these friends on this date line up my ride, my reservation, the tickets and IT all talks to different boss to do that. Sam thinks that's inevitable. And what really so open the eyes stated mission is to build agi, right?

Artificial general intelligence, which is this like super, it's like god, like I I that can think Better than all of us combined. A people in the A I field that i've talked to over the last year think that this next step, where its GPT representing us engaging in our behalf, uh, unsupervised, is the environment that is needed to train the models to become a step function even more intelligent. Because you need to have this concept called self supervised learning, where these agents are all interacting and training on their own.

That's pretty freaky, right? That's like matrix stuff. Yeah, that's coming in. Like the next couple of years, I think the world could look a lot just I think that and that was the vive there was like we are kind of witnessing a very, very exciting, but also like very scary .

next few years here. Yeah, an inside of IT is a this is A A ticking time bomb. And looking mad at you, we got to take a break.

We will come back. We get a light around. We're got to get out here. Look back.

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moment that the powerful backing of american express terms apply. Learn more at american with card member access limited. It's quite a lot in the slide, but we ve got to go fast. Crane start because you I think you have of the best one.

I do you have the best one. There's a new steam deck. Uh, shaan holster has reviewed IT. He naturally loves IT.

I think I called him like the day after he got IT and I could tell me everything, and he sure did he. He really likes that. The big things that have changed with this one is there's a new processor. They went from the seven antimatter earth processor named after the character, from fun fancy seven to the six antimatter seventh processor. Seems the switch and all that display they've switched a the battery life is supposedly increased.

Which LED to an incredible quote from from shan, where he said, for example, in twenty twenty two, I was able to play the graphically intensive control for just under two hours on my original steam deck review unit at sixty frames per second. This week I played the same game and up to eighty frames per second for two hours and eleven minutes. I .

mean, more frames. Yeah, you saw more frames.

He does add more stuff to IT. IT is a pretty measuredly different big difference in battery life, especially on games that don't use as much of the the C P. U.

In the G P U. So like those those lower impact games are gonna last a lot, lot longer. The high impact games, those of us making our, whether borders get three on the thing or not, going to see as much success.

The big shock for me was that there are no whole effect joysticks. I just assumed that was going to happen because there's been so much frustration with the drift on the current choice tics. Yeah, they didn't do that.

That's a big bammer. But they get rid of the thirty two gig by e emc. Version, which was the one that I bought because you could replace the drive really cheap and easy.

They get rid of that. One now starts at five fifty or five forty nine. I'm resisting buying one. But sean loves that. Oh, and the power button is .

now orange and it's pretty.

I love IT. yeah.

I'm excited. I will put this out as evidence. As we've been saying, there's more action in gadgets and people ever give any credit. The love that our audience and in particular Shawn has for the steam deck is like .

off the charts. It's is an awesome device and they don't have to do a bunch of really long information for .

you get about at eighty friends per second for a eleven minutes more. So I ve got to say.

well, yeah, I just love this thing. They just they were just like, what are all the things we can do to make this device Better? And then they just did all those things.

And now here we are like, god forbid, more companies don't just like make their thing there all the time, like, just makes me happy. IT was the same thing with the switch OLED whether like we got this thing pretty right the first time, what if we just did a couple of things Better wouldn't debi cool. And if we is like, yes, but it's like most companies are like, okay, this is called the steam deck two.

And this time IT comes in pieces and you have to like, do backflips while you use IT, it's gonna so dupe instead it's just like, no, we like pretty much got this rate. We just need a Better now it's cool. Ah it's that's the way just make your .

things right yeah that's all you need to do.

I just really appreciate that one of the headline features of this one is that the fan is both larger and quieter, which is like critic guys, this is some video game still here. We did IT.

I would know that, but I ve been trying to scroll this article using samsung dex, which is not possible.

I didn't realized you were actively scrolling.

I thought you were doing. I always do the thing .

where I like fidget and scroll up and down.

You is a about IT and look and IT as many things as an Operating system. And samsung, one you eye is things, the skin on android, a combination of things that is designed to let you change mouse tracking speed is not on the list of priorities for either these companies. All right, David, what is you're .

lighting right minds feasible. It's just the youtube, in its relentless quest to be tiktok, is now adding a four u page to a four u carcel to people's channels, which is basically like personalized recommended videos on people's channels that you lend on a very smart be forever. Interesting to me that the phrase for you has just completely taken over the internet like we've just decided that that is the term for every personalized everything for you, just one. And also, youtube really want to stop trying to be .

tiktok like just, oh my god, I think everything is a leg to be tiktok. But I I opened .

my youtube mobile APP to the shorts thing and I was just IT was IT was little tiles of shorts filling my entire stream when I opened my youtube up on my phone like, no, no I still sometimes .

accidentally .

score IT forgetting i'm not in tiktok oh yeah that's .

it's incredible that needs .

to gram i'm like, oh, that's why it's kind .

of premium weird yeah it's like watching the algorithms grow up like there are a different stages of being todgers and like take talk is like running away with the election um but like youtube, just like this is anything will this make you mad? Will that make you said horny?

You know instagram is like, here's a cardamon an you know like back to basics yeah at least in my feed they figured out that I like truck trumps what to truck jumps on my instagram like you get in Better yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I engage them more. And the tiktok is just like full crazy.

I I screw up on tiktok the other day and I thought I had broken my algorithms. He just kept showing me bag pipe videos.

Now that's what I mean. Tiktok is now at the point where is in the deepest, darkest recesses of your personality if you've been scrolling IT for years and years, terrible. It's like beyond truck jumps. It's like deep fried truck means like I can explain to anyone else. There's a video I keep seeing of like a motorized piz appeal that just picks up a pizza and puts IT back down.

Cool it's is bad pipes.

I'm saying it's telling you more about yourself that you need to know. I never it's in the five year old.

alex.

but they were cool. I left you .

at five talk.

Has the reset algorithm and and I think about hating IT all the time.

Oh my god, I should IT think I have to.

And this is all here is my pitch for this whole thing. I ve now watched more. again. We've had a lot of rate on the show, but i've watched more movies on tiktok recently than anything. And all of these video stream platforms are going to get you engage again and it's like netflix just make make the .

tiktok yeah just show .

me just like let me grow through and like, yes, start couple tree in the middle of IT for some reason and then that'll play on my T, V, and will be done yeah .

in like A I absolutely one hundred percent guarantee you that's going like there is not one shadow of a doubt in my mind that at some point in the very near future the netflix mobile APP will have that thing for you. But I also think part of the reason I I picked this one as my letting round thing is because it's just like i've gotten totally obsessed with the idea that scrolls ling is just like the behavior and IT does not matter what you're scrolling IT doesn't matter what you're doing. It's just like people want to score.

You just like have a moment where are like i'm going to get on my phone and I just do some scroll this just like a thing people talk about and the activity is so much more important than what you're doing IT with. But it's just like I now think about that all the time. Is this just like that as a mode of engaging with technology? Is i'm just gonna scroll.

And I think the more that becomes the thing, especially as Young people are trained on that as like I have five minutes, I to do some scrolling. I just like I hear more people say that and you're going to see IT absolutely everywhere. And IT is going to like completely change the internet because it's like instead of i'm going to go like look at edit or whatever is just like i'm .

just going to and IT just before you feed of girls everywhere.

Yeah, it's not and it's .

just a bunch of algorithms starting at the very beginning of like personalities like angry, sad, hungry honey and all the way to bagpipes. No, whatever complex I would love to see the database field of like bagpipe emotional reactions that take talk seeks it's getting and IT gets a bag pipe. Engagement, you know, like networks was like deeply over constructed movie categories. yeah.

But IT was all because I liked to friends video. And first of reason was like, I know which part of that we need to pull out for you.

Bagpipes tell you one of the .

things I love about these conversations. This is always just people telling on themselves about the stuff that they watched on social dia itself you like got you also on bag pipe tiktok and it's like, no, no one else.

They are including .

me now right .

here's mine. A great piece by jen tui this week um if you are smart home or this really hitcher, there's a company of chamblin makes all the garage openers, like if you buy, have the chance that you have a lift master. Garage openers are made by chamblin very, very high.

They like many bad companies, uh have smart devices. You can make, you can make the gradual and or smart. They have a propriety platform called my q, which is long since the disaster.

My q is monotoned through partnerships with the car companies. So you've got a car with like a wifi connection in IT. You can like push the button.

Cloud service happens. You just opens whatever, man, many, many, many people have hacked into my q with homework dge and a state which are really cool things. It's very nerdy, but you can have a little tomato chi of our israeli in your house.

I have to reset every couple months and IT IT bridges, all the things together in home get, that's my hand bridge, like my ring camera shop in home kit because of home bridge. My q showed up in home kit for a lot of people because of home bridge. Mike, shut off this integration. cool.

They claim they're getting .

deed off through IT, which is like you could have a real integration with OK. Never shut up you in a deduce. So they in this is a part that just rankles. They explain their decision by saying, we've made the decision to prevent an author as usage of the Mickey o system to props so that we can continue to write the best possible experience for our ten million plus users. We understand this impact of small percentage users, but ultimately to this will improve the performance and liability of michie benefiting over users.

That is the cleanest garage i've ever seen.

Yeah, the picture here. Um so they said, this is two percent of people. So genes to the math about tending users, you've broken two hundred thousand other stores.

Which is just incredible. So now they're freking out. I will tell you, mike, I has always been a disaster that have always been pretty user.

Hospital s is not a secret. It's just what people have. And no one thinks about place in the garage.

True opener. So everyone's been hacking around IT. You can buy little adapters. I have one called me ros.

I think the refresh ones are called reform is a very confusing though, like some anywhere between thirty and beauty, boxing and sale. You can just wire in your god shop and put him in home at they work. There's other ones. Jane has a whole list of other alternatives. If you are the sort of person once open a free phone, and I am that sort of person you are, there are many ways to do this. Do not involve the my he platform in our article has irritated them so much that they are issue in corrections and they are trying to explain their decision even more when all they need to do is just either build a home kit immigration or let the people do the hacks .

yeah just like say, okay, how a system fine .

I love IT when companies like it's a tiny percentage of users and like you just broke two hundred .

thousand only to only .

to under kay Alice like yeah.

it's actually a thing i've been trying. I've been test driving a riva R S for the last week. Um so R J the C O is a code um this is not a an add by any means but uh I have had fun in IT a lot. We took IT off voting and Joshua tree and um an electric is my first time in an electric like S U V.

And uh the thinking goes here to sixty and three seconds and has like eight hundred and forty horsepower and h is just like driving a big eeo car through the desert yeah I was I like the I mean, just a lot of the small decisions we've made in terms of the you know the O S. And the the into the car, the moment they do a midsize to one of these, I think it's going to be a really compelling tesla alternative. But right now it's very like outdoor see you know big big hawking .

vehicles but yeah had a lot of next up cyber .

truck for you that yeah i've heard yeah i've heard the riving described as the I I can't say on our air but the a version of the cyber er truck that uh for people who I I yeah anyway .

OK can I say my style tracking so I asked for pictures of the wiper. We've been lots of cyberstalking everywhere and people keep sending me not close up there. Here's another video of the wife and it's like you're six miles away. So I going to be more specific. And a close up of the middle of the wiper, the middle, not the, not the ARM, not the part of the bottom of the winship's, the turns, the middle of the wiper blade or even Better, close ups all the way up the wiper.

like connecting to the glass.

And i'll be more specific. I ve heard rumors of how the actual blade is constructed that I would like to verify. I will not tell you what they are. These because I don't want to put this information in the world, and I want to test the people are crazy. And I want clipsed of me saying a thing that's wrong. I'm just saying i've heard some information that I cannot verify about the wiper blade itself, so you can canner one, just go look at the blade, take takes some picture, start the bottom, click, click, click, click, click all the way the top, see if you notice anything.

I think about the riving wipers. They work.

And the two, I to say, I heard a plural there.

Yeah, there's two. They cover the entire when shield and they work. The only thing I don't like is there's not the cleaner fluid, right? Like you can't like why are we making new cars that cost a lot of money that don't have IT doesn't have the washer fluid like i'm driving this thing through the desert. I is empty or just doesn't doesn't exist.

No, you guys, we cannot pick the wind should would ever fight again. We can't. We've we've been down this road before me, zed, about to say, just put .

water and it'll be no, are going to get the problem. It's barre. Someone asked me if I was going to ask obama what we should wash your food. We have think a lot of dumb battles on a shopping. This is easily the and do not just fit water .

in anyone in the one thing I did when ask you about obama was, how was the secret .

service ah so this is our second round with him and we are in his officers so they were chill OK. Um the first round you get to pat down I did not where we were already all cleared from. Um so when we were harvard there was like intense security in the other protest that eggs you are speaking about college campus uh their dogs like the whole thing happened ah we hanging out of the dogs and we found he wasn't be there.

So then we school the doctor cool. Um they're very family the at his offices we've already been prepped ens, and we are on his home turf. So there is there a there was a presence. He doesn't not have a presence and there are some discussion about whether the blinds were were open and close and whatever. But I was IT was very chill because we were in his space is supposed to when you're not in his, just moving him around is a complicated, I would imagine what we've discovered .

can go to cinema.

Can I actually, can I tell you my one, obama behind the sea story? We can. The subset in that episode, we talk a lot about free speech into that and regulating free speech.

And one of the things is really hard to do is a you need some constitutional authority to go out and regular speech. So the one that came up in the episode is the fcc has some authority over broadway stations, right to you swear on abc or cbs or nbc. People can file complaints.

The fcc, the fcc can find them because you're using the public airwaves. This is like a real thing. So like radio stations and broadcast TV, there some basis for the fcc to regulate the content that is actually ate.

This doesn't exist for cable TV, which is why HBO can exist, why cable news like ofthe ils, why I can just swear IT will on the internet, on the show, right? The government has basically know a third caution of public area. So I ask all of this question, in the empty OK, you see some hook.

So then we get up and we take a group photo, because he is an excEllent politician, and he knows they should take a group photo, something like happy. And I did the least journalist thing in my life, which other I took a video, him saying how to max, which again, i'm just admitting to you disclosure the least internal thing in my life. But my daughter is a video of .

thing I to work, which you take IT down on camo, yeah.

yeah. It's like, hard. And then he's leaving. And I was like that this like thing, like this, feels like the problem to me.

Like everyone wants to do this. Everyone wants to issue at some sweet ch regulation, but you got to get over this problem. And he looking at us, yeah, you just need to hook, you just got to figure out, we'll figure out. And you like, wash other as, oh, you used to be the most powerful person in the world. Your brain is just like, this problem should be something like figure IT out yeah and I was the kate cox a the decoder pretty I both our minds are just blown because that's just like not I don't have the ability just like order someone to solve a constitutional law problem yeah, he was I just, I know shut up. Just delegate IT was just like you don't have that experience for yeah the man yeah yeah .

that was .

what um anyhow that's IT that's a very chest, please. If you see a cyber truck just all the way up the wiper stock and telling me there's something there, I don't know what IT is, but people tell .

me they're something there. I should look at and make the .

nei wearable index GPT the yeah i'm telling you the vision pro the whole vision pro review was just going to me doing math. But I wanted to be a input.

I want you to be a GPT where you can say, is this thing? How does this fit in the new lize graph of wearable fillin .

ss times face IT has be less than or equal to usefulness. That's the whole equation. You just figured that after me, right? That's IT takes ready. That's very fast back on.

And that's a rapper verge cast this week, and we'd love to hear from you give us a call at eight, six, six verge one one. The verge cast is a production of the verge in box media podcast network. The show is produced by Andrew marino and millions James. This episode was mixed and edited by ander Adams, and that's IT. We'll see you next week.

Support for this episode comes from A W S. A W S, generate A, A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud. Support for this podcast comes from anthropic.

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