Into the iPad Confusion Zone
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Hey, it's lee from decoder with new IP top. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech can hire away cofounder? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that. Seems you'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with the litel presented by strike. You can listen to decoder.

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Color test the flag shop podcast of the confusion zone will explain what he means. You hi my friend and alex friends is here.

I'm your friend who is always confused .

to not in the zone.

No, I live in this one. I yeah David feces here.

I'm never confused about anything, David. Out the zone. I'm not going in there.

not in the zone.

We have quite a lot talk about restructuring the show this week as a series of lightning rounds, which I assure you that I am working on finding a sponsor for. There's one I have, in particular in my brain starch with the and and and and tell if you're listening and you're from one of america's most important ship makers call the people.

I don't do any of that side of that the other side of the house, but they're waiting to catch your money in rebrand this the verge has thunder hope for ground sponsored by i'm sane anyway, is fighting a lot of news. We got to get through IT all, yes. But before gan, I want to shed up to two listeners who I would like to give t shirt too.

One, I literally just ran into me on a train today, looks surprised, so they are a big fan. I forgot to say, giving email, dress. So just me an email, tell me what your name is on the train platform, and i'll make sure you are t shirt t i'm not saying your name because I want that's my verification scheme.

So the second one is more a little more of a story and is truly one of the funniest moments that i've ever had hosting the show, OK, which is ten years now. So we're in new york like lots of people just expect to see people in new york like a Normal thing that happens if someone, okay, the verge, yeah, you're guy. I'm superman. Ted, you about had fun jacks and I grow the race.

We say, by the way, that is what eighty five percent of people say when they meet one of them they just go, uh, the verge so .

a real thing um look, there are creators were vastly more populated than we are. So we're now here. But one of the best aspects of this is because it's a podcast and people been listening to us for so long.

People just come up to us and start talking to us like they know us yeah and often whoever his partners like do you know each other in them? Like no. And so it's always verify. So I appreciate this appetite to ever at any time.

But i'm like in new york, that's Normal because the people know that were in new york, like you have some baseline expectation that we're at least supposed to be in this city or at an apple evenor, whatever is. I was in boston this week where harvard is launching something called the applied social media lab and it's big fancy event, big fancy people and it's like a launch that there is panel interviews and do that. How can we help social media reinforce democracy? Like the light stuff, you know the stuff uh and thought was there the stuff you .

know and .

at the event watched the thing we did the code episode of last thing is all great um but like eight fifteen in the morning I meet wall Greens in cambridge and a verge cast fan just looked like utterly perplexed as i'm walking into the organs they walked up to me and very politely and all they had headphones and and they were listening to the last episode, the sono episode and all this first thing to do was just like point in their phone they are just like that you.

And then they said their name so thank you for listening i'm start but I was like, not supposing boston like I could see the yeah IT was just like unwired like why is this person here? And I get IT because why was I there at eight fifteen in the morning? logger.

Ens, this poor person is going to work. Send me email, say your name. I I remember your name, will will get your t shirt.

I was just like one of the purely funniest moments. Like it's honestly, why was I there? There is no explanation.

I had not tweeted. I'm in boss like nothing, just context free. See, a person that you're listening to must have been truly strange. So send me an email with your name. Also.

a new t shirt is is that because of your tremendous brand loyalty?

Is a train read that no one could believe.

Cbs.

so ah there two t shirts I want to send out if you saw me on the train today or if you saw me randomly in boston, which again, truly random situation.

I like that they didn't point at you because that's what I do when I see someone.

I just I was showing me the activity widget on really got me like I done the same thing yeah if if I was like watching red zone on my phone in scotland and and was there like all I would have done is just like point IT. Thank you. Thank you.

You're they are in here at same time. Wait now I before I move on, every really important question here. How many gadgets did you bring on the train today? I cannot tell you the response that we have gotten to your thesis that you would like to be the guy who just walks under the train like a murdered, the number of emails and post. We got so much response to this, being like.

this is the way there .

is no anybody wants to do. Have you made progress?

How will we do in so I since that epsom, i'd not been back in the office. So my plan was to sneak into the office reviews closet today and see if we have a galaxy fold with decks. I was going to give IT a shot in the the coming week OK because i'm community in the office like two or three times a week. So i'm going to give IT a shot one .

of these days.

Okay this requires like an enormous amount of up front work as all assassinations require um a lot of planning and preparation. I had to set up a decks work station in the office, which is like perhaps not the best use of my time in the office. I'm sure I can help you.

No, no, no, no, that's not a ticket you want to file. I would like to put an unfit to third party Operating system on this network. why? Yeah, just can I careful access to the land?

You've never heard of this Operating system that runs on a phone we don't even own. You know, I got to do some hard work, which I will attempt to do today. Yeah OK. I don't know why in my head has to be a folding phone.

I know i'm IT makes sense. Like a regular phones.

like many samsung phones run decks.

but it's further reading on the train, right? Like it's it's like you want you want the something to like sit down on the sea and you cross your legs and to your cross your puzzle like that the that's the interview stage that's where you open the phone.

right? But there's no part of i'm not bring up my laptop on the trade .

using my phone yeah shut up.

Yeah I don't have the middle ground between phone usage and laptop.

You don't have a foldable phone.

I said this is IT. The other side of IT is at my house. I have to set up and always on desktop computer or on deeper I can get my eye messages. yeah. So if you just think about the amount of prep work I have to do, so I can just roll up onto the train.

okay? no.

But the real step, two different, extremely weird computing environments, and make them both work perfect. So I can execute this .

plan if the verge believes in anything, it's in doing so much work. So you don't have to Carry anything anywhere.

That is what we stand for. I saw those know it's not like people get IT yeah yeah.

you just want to roll up. It's the dream. But now the middle ground is you, you open IT up and you accomplish your other dream, which is to write on stories with a red pen as an editor. So you get on the train. You unfold your phone.

If google wants me to switch full time to end IT, just make IT in the android. Google dox APP. You can circle things, and that shows up as an edit everywhere in google.

Ox, make that exclusive to the android version of goole. Ox, I switch tomorrow. All I want to do is circle things with the red pen. And then then David or IT says clunky. As an editor chief, i've have but one goal, and i've saved laser focus on IT this entire time.

David less excited about go the very .

beginning of the verge show and a stern had had posted IT note on the side of her month. There are just a click y so SHE would you you like? I know what you're onna say so he was just member.

Ant, i'm very predictable women, right? That's all the prem. I'm working on my deck situation that we're going .

to check IT in next week. This is not, this is not a task. You are allowed if if you have things on the train next week, we, the verge cast public disappointed.

I hate. I Carried my backpack on the train to as a good stuff. This bag exists solely to have my laptop in IT. No bag. And I don't need all the stuff that's in IT, but once you have a bag, you start filling in with stuff.

Some people would say the answer is by another laptop.

I say that's not think yeah, a good answer is that I could actually ask her office people for a desk and return to work and only as this. It's all the stuff I don't want. No, I not.

I don't. You suffer. I'm not feeling that I T tickets and none of this is happening. You know, my dream is to never use enterprise software. Yeah, i'm gonna.

I would bet that I get closer to consistently having emails printed out and handed to me using dex IT work. Again, the long term, what is more likely to be a real thing that happens? I get to the point where people he printed out emails, then I consistently everyday use decks.

And I think if you don't if you have a bag next week, then yeah, we're were just going to start only communicating with you with like printed emails. Be like, can you check this and like no email, right?

Well, there's news. Yes, there's news. There's a lot of news, but I am going to go check out the deck situation that cause IT after this.

Okay, lightning around. What's that was? Get at lighting around. Yeah, David, you get the first one. What's up?

I want to talk about the apple petal, the confusion zone, the confusions. We are entering the confusions. Who knows how long will be here.

but we are here now. Thank you.

Really early. So apple launch new pencil. It's, it's a pencil. But IT charges with U. S, B, C.

That is the only thing about IT that I understand there is now an apple pencil. The charges with USB. c. What apple also did was make the entire situation of buying an ipad and an apple pencil vastly more confusing, on top of already being more confusing.

And the funniest thing that has happened this week is that there are, I would say, a set of people on the internet who spend a lot of time explaining weird decisions apple makes us, if they are not weird decision. Apple lost everybody on this one. This was one of those.

Everybody was like, why on earth are there three pencils? There is now the apple pencil first generation, which works for a subset of ipads. There's the apple pencil second generation, which works for a subset of ipad, and there's an apple pencil USB c, which works for a different subset of ipad.

And there is just no world in which any of this makes any sense anymore. And there is a lot of people to reconsider whether the ipad makes any sense more. Yeah, I I just need you guys to feel as .

the way of domino where, like they released the apple pencil of USB c, it's the first little domino and like the last one is someone is like i'm switching to windows. I saw, I saw this happened this week. They're going to a full surface.

Yeah.

though at least the surface pen makes sense. And I can just buy the one. And IT works everywhere, so I get why they needed to make an apple pencil. Usc and I like the little design. It's a slightly cap so just opens maybe the first affordable to charging in accessory that makes sense that apple has released ever leased .

in the .

context of computer like obviously .

are podds yeah to plug .

in the bottom to take the cap off. It's not only magnetic to summer.

plugged a thing into IT instead of plugging IT into a thing that is the obviously correct and Better way to do everything.

Support of people recognize that might have charging cables were oh very good. Yes, great. Uh, so that part school is missing a bunch of features. So is like a there's a travell released a chart with checkmark of what all the things do and IT looks like one of those charts.

So like when you go to buy health insurance or something and you I don't know any these words me or whether I want this, this is defining to put me in debt like it's like that level of confusing in the chart yeah and there's a bunch of features that if you don't know you need them, you you're like, do I need hover? Do I need doubled hap to switch? Yeah like it's it's hard to convey e the value of the features.

And like this, what end? There's also the fact that the U S B C. Apple pencil, which is a sensibly the newest apple pencil, is missing a bunch of features, including features that exist on the first generation apple pencil, like pressure sensitivity, which I would argue a very important feature in like a high and silos. This thing is eighty dollars IT does not have pressure sensitivity. The very first pencil apple ever made has pressure sensitivity.

Like what are we doing .

here is is circling things .

also the image they released .

to promote this new pencil. Just good look at, we had a full set conversation about IT. IT is ridiculous.

IT is it's a picture of a gaba t costumed. I don't want it's an illustration of IT. Parts of IT look like .

a recipe arrow go nowhere.

The recipe would not help you well if you just look at illustration a costard and there's just like some words I also like bake until three fifty you like I don't know what i'm baking and yes, there errors are go to nowhere yeah and then IT says how many there might be as though this is like a catering order but then it's beautifully straw .

I like that the highlights were all the exact same wit because there's no pressure since so can be the same went and just go.

look, I mean, whatever it's marketing materials and that we did that post alone time. I go like the only people can think of to do with the service panis circling things. And this is like the ultimate exercise.

And nonsensical circling of things like this image, no one would ever make IT unless they had been assigned to making an image to market a style that is the only reason exists. And I think that's kind of indicative of this whole exercise of the ipad. They sell a lot of them.

They have a lot of different kinds of uses. IT is five hundred different kinds of appliance to people, but that means that has no narrative. Yes, just a thing.

And it's like you can sell the nth ten one with a lightning port. Certain kids can watch disney plus, but it's cheap. It's like that thing needs to compete with fire tablets that are essentially free or you can sell one at the top end. That is, all the features in the world in is meant to compete with windows laptops.

Yet there were a bunch of rumors before this announcement that we were gonna get a big ipad refresh this week that there was gonna so much bigger news about tablets. And I think a affected that didn't happen is sort of telling, I mean, the I that is way overdue. That whole lineup is overdue for like a real serious refresh.

It's been, I mean, the nation one has a home button and a lightning port like its way behind and you can still buy IT and it's still I think three hundred and twenty nine dollars as the starting Price for an I ipad is really important to apple. And I think the new low and ipad is is like four hundred and fifty bucks. And i'm just i'm bedding apple just cannot figure out how to sell that thing at its margins for three hundred and twenty nine dollars.

But we're getting to the point now where IT just doesn't make any sense that line up anymore. It's like if you're an ipad mini person, it's easy. You just buy ipad mini.

I think excess i'm an ipad mini person, buy ipad mini. Same beyond that, there's an entry level ipad and another entry level ipad. There's an ipad air.

There are the ipad pro like we they've just lost the plot here. And I think it's right. It's because apple is increasingly unclear what this thing is for. Like I think the macbook was gonna die and the ipad is going to be the computer, the future. And then actually the macbook got awesome and has had a real resurgence.

And now the question is like we're back to, is there a space between your increasingly large, increasingly powerful phone and you're increasingly long lasting, increasingly portable laptop? And you know what, thirteen years ago when the ipad came out, there actually was a lot of gap that your phone didn't cover in, your laptop didn't cover. And those two things have both come closer together. And I feels like the space for the ipad is drinking and drinking and drinking.

Guess I would remind you that we open the show with a luter quis, but entirely realistic conversation about whether I can just walk onto a train with a folding film that turns into a desktop P. C. At this office. Yeah, and I get luck.

But not a thing I can do, but I, it's just a thing I can do right now as I I can buy a phone that opens into a tablet, arrive at work and turn IT into reasonable sexism of a desk computer. Because IT will be running dex, which rit will have to even put onto them. The ipad does not like.

It's not cognizant of that reality right in the application ecosystem, in the user interface. With stage ranted at all that stuff, IT still thinks that people don't want laptops. I think that's just getting increasingly untenable.

No, I think they know IT IT built the laptops because half of those ipad become laptops. You know you have to spend like one hundred and fifty two hundred dollars for the case, but you can turn them most of those ipad .

into the major keyboard is three hundred dollars going.

say, which is one .

hundred and fifty? Look, it's been four years I one, but that's brutal. But but like they're very aware and they try to go after that kind of surface pricing, they try to position that is a surface, but then they have to keep ones in the mini and their like. No, no, these are ipad ipad and these are ipad laptops. But what's really interesting.

what is changed my mind about the ipad is watching two people in my family use them. Max, who is five, who watches youtube kids in, plays minecraft. And there's actually really tight nexus there.

SHE watches people play minecraft on youtube kids, and then he plays minecraft. That means SHE is now great minecraft, because she's five. SHE is have to make any money.

He is feed her. We take her everywhere. We can just pick up and move if she's not in the right place.

You know, like SHE comes all of her mental energy is focused on minecraft in a way that is wonderful. I miss IT, but like, the thing is perfectly adequate for that task. He is not like, I want a newer, Better ipad.

IT doesn't even matter her. The thing is a window to tip minecraft. I don't even know how he does IT because she's using touching controllers to move around minecraft.

IT makes me dizzy ching and play this game. And like, do you want a controller? She's a good out of her old man, but she's five. She's mean.

no, she's not. And by the way, in in a certain way, that is like perfect the dream state of the ipad. Like what an unbelievable success story of a device you just described.

right? It's an appliance for minecraft. Yeah that is doing that job.

Finally, and IT charges using the same cable as her mother's iphone, which makes life very convenient for those two right. Very inconvenient for me at this juncture. Used to charge the same table as my phone.

Now i'm just like a weird or die in the corner. Like I said you as I am just like left out of my family, that's her right appliance for consuming video on the handful video apps and playing one one game. Then there's my sister who is a full like ipad as a laptop person.

Love this sister is a doctor. He goes to work. Windows is voiced upon her. SHE comes back and he has no desire to further use traditional stop Operating systems. SHE just is on her ipad and she's alter effective is she's like ipad person and I watch her use of thing and it's like literally just a relief from desktop Operating metaphors.

Yes, I mean, I do that. I've got one. We're like if I if have to do work on the weekends or something, sometimes i'll go and use my my computer. But a lot of times of you like i'm going to pull out of my twenty eighteen ipad pro and use that just to escape.

Just do not feel like i'm at work because cycle probably still be open because I probably left IT open and like some dress that I oh edits on her there and I don't want to look at that. I just want to go and do things. And so what's really nice and then I got my my other ipad, which is just for in bed reading and looking at youtube and not going to sleep.

Yeah, it's great you're hitting a point that i've am starting hit and what he is like, I should have computers .

per room yeah basically that .

I Carrier around and like what if I get a chance book for the living room? It's like it's right .

over there yeah no how to .

be like no um so I tried to do this to my ipad. I was like the ipad was just like live in the living room with my TV computer and ipad on a magic keyboard is like not a good laptop. So any work happens. It's like I can't do IT and actually go get my laptop. And then the magic keyboard is like not great for lap.

And I A O, yeah. And then I put them on top. My little.

I say, this is the dominant, by the way, apple released the USB C. Apple pencil and here we are and like, I got to get a crime. Look, my living room yeah and telling you people are like evaluating all the places they would otherwise an ipad.

And me like there's a slightly Better product to put in that place unless you're using IT as an appliance, unless that as a single purpose and you ve you've jammed an ipad into the purpose, again, playing my craft, watching videos. For the longest time, we my oldest ipad, lived on our old tread mill, and Becky just used that to do pelletan trial work out like he was just a palon TV. And then we moved.

And just like i'm buying your help, help do that, I had a bit like, that's all it's the thing is an appliance. And I think apple has IT has not marketed the thing well as like IT is an appliance. It's like here's all the ipads you can buy and assuming the market will just figure IT out but then you get to the pencil, no, I don't even know what to buy, right?

I mean, I think the thing that apple has held on to all this time is that IT is possible to be all things to all people, because it's just a scream, because IT has the accessory, because IT has a dragani appeal system. IT can solve everybody's problems, because everybody has different problems, but everybody's problems, right? The ipad can be the solution, all those problems.

And if you have a subset of problems, I think that's true. Like if you want to play a certain kind of game, the ipad is the best thing that exists on earth to play that kind of game. Alexi, talk about reading on the show all the time and it's like the ipad is the best reading device.

Like it's close. Yes, IT just says it's the best minecraft device. If you want to watch video about minecraft and them pay minecraft, right? Like give you this one need. It's a really expensive device, but IT works.

The problem is apple has made IT so vastly complicated to figure out which one is the right one for your needs that you're going to start to literally push people away because I just I am looking at these pencils in the answer for me, i'm not gonna one. Yeah, what is happening? I'm going to go bed the ten dollar or knockoff off on the amazon that just works with all of them.

IT is going to be fine. Like apple used to be really, really good at this too, right? Like apple would go and kill something just to keep their lineup as clean as possible.

And over the years, it's gotten messier and messier and and that's fine in a lot of ways. It's bit good like there's a lot of phones you can choose from. They're very affordable. Yeah all of that. But the IP headin particularly like, no, you've got made IT too messy.

It's just too much because they don't know for most apple so big, they are some products. They need something at every Price point and so they just bring things on the Price. So that makes a little bit of sense to me with the old one. Still hear if you want IT the particular to do that with the iphone, with the ipad, I think they don't they have to articulate a reason that you're not going to buy the cheapest thing, which I think in this cases of fire tablet.

Well and and not only that, I mean, I think we could sit here and I could pretty quickly explain to you the difference between the four models of the iphone, right? Like there are there are features that you get on one that you don't get on the other other than screen. Bigger thing, more expensive. Can you tell me the difference between the android level ipad and d 12 point ipad pro IT has a light.

our sensor.

David, I don't know .

what you're talking about. Everyone is constantly out. You're doing lighter stuff. The future, I will say that in my new office, in the new house, am are producer, legitimately has like carpet samples for me.

So like d eo this room and treat this room that I think a look at and is examined some dimensions. And I did the light, our room scanning thing with the iphone and IT was super cool. And then I ended up with like a file that no idea how to use .

IT under anyone. Yes.

it's here. This gone and it's a confusion zone that's i'm saying.

But at also, my prediction is at some point in the next twelve months, either that this is going to get much worse or apple is just going to clean IT up drastically. And I would bet on that. I think we're going to a bunch of new ipads that make a lot more sense very soon.

I hope the letter i'm going to bet on more confusing. Just to be contrary, i've know inside one of the .

ipad is going to be a sound bar.

We had a lot of emails. Are the people who are likely you don't know what you're talking when they're finding and no way I am going to get printed out emails delivered to me at work before before releases and .

there are all going to the sound.

Here's my lightning around one i'm actually really excited would on the whole show on this product ogutu as a new thing called the prompter, which is just a two hundred and eighty dollar teller prompter.

I want a bunch .

of lens adaptors so you can like screw right under the end of various ts lenses as other minds for whatever it's it's a display with a and a little bit of software, like the tiny st bit of software to make be able to let them claim that you've done something here. But it's it's a USB c display with a mere in some clever mounting hardware seeking to put IT right on the dis. I think this is one of the fun test products ever.

Yeah it's just a teleprompter. But for people.

yeah it's like any beauty because right now.

if you wanted to do teleprompter and you didn't want to go spend money on an actual and you would have to get the ipad and there .

is a whole set up in the pandemic. I was given a giant teleprompter to do review videos like we we did a bunch review videos. I remember we did one thing was the first in one macbook airs did.

And now I like review them with your home. I think it's a micro pro. We did a bunch of of use at home basically. So the studio sent me a prompters like like read the reviews.

This is a good time to tell everybody, by the way, that every single thing that I says on the verge cast is scripted and he's reading off a prompter right now.

He just .

that all right listen everybody. Um so we have one to mount. And ipad on a meaningfully good prompter required, like the world's biggest heavy est tripod, is just like a huge heavy thing that you need to have to get an ipad and need special software in the ipad is.

So all just a mess. This is just a little USB c to fly that you like plug in the your computer. IT does have a little bit of software, a little bit of teleprompter. I run some texture often are but the most important thing is because it's just a monitor.

You can just slide windows to IT yeah so you can just slide the google dog right to IT and read that is supposed like having the sender to some other weird software that I needed to have in an ipad. It's small so you can be mounted on a variety of things that mean the heavy ipad. And importantly, you can just put zoom windows because you just put windows so you can just like make eye contact with people or your video conferencing, which is the secret of my success.

okay. Can we talk about this though? Because this has come up a bunch. And I both want to talk about this now, and I also want people to email as verge cast first. I come is IT good or horrifying when the person you're talking to in a meeting is staring dead into the camera and attempting to make eye contact with you. I believe yes IT IT is horrifying in bad and IT should be illegal to look at your camera turing zoom meeting. But I genuinely like you need, I like went away at every way and read the whole system where IT actually appears like you're looking at the camera as you're talking to somebody who is on your screen.

Yeah, I hate IT. I think it's weird to exist in the world or knowing is ever looking at each other and particularly in the pandemic IT just really impacted me that like no one was ever looking at anything yeah in one way that I could signal that I was paying attention was like looking at the camera because necessarily, if i'm looking at camera, i'm not like looking at someone page. Now with the l goto prompter, which is two hundred eight hours, I can definitely look at a web page.

IT is an interesting thing though, because I feel like the thing that so many people learned during the webcam is like everyone is always just kind of looking six inches below you yeah it's like I always just think about IT is like everyone you're talking to is always staring at your belley button, right? Like that's that's the angle we've all gotten used to in these video chats and in the abstract agree, that's weird.

And IT would be Better if we all just like barrel the camera start to each other. But also, the funny thing is, if I am looking at the camera right now, i'm actually not looking. You're looking up. I'm looking at the camera.

And all of the norms of this are weird where like they have been all these studies that show when we do zoom calls, actually, we spend most of the time looking at ourselves and not the people that we talk to. And that's like exhAusting and emotionally problematic and really bad because we're not super to be looking at ourselves as much in life. But just this prompter is like if you're somebody who like makes videos and streams or whatever, and like you're the creator, there are the audience.

I can see why you looking into the camera and that makes sense. But these new enorme of like virtual conversations yeah are so od to me and I just don't know the audience. So but I do think something like this or I can feasibly be looking at you and the camera at the same time is very cool. So like I I mean this for that reason, but I I still think it's weird.

Yeah I mean.

I love IT well.

especially because I can put a fancy camera beyond IT like they have to be seen the tiktok add for .

the center camp and bring SONY imaging web he have gotten.

I buy you an hg my art, and you're not leaving in the office before. I have a folding phone and you have an hg my heart. Do you seen the thing like it's like a center. I think that's what it's called yeah and it's just like a little idiot camera sensor on a stick. And the idea is is that is not in the way and it's just a bad camera.

Like, this is my problem with IT is like, I wanted to look good because nice yeah so this is like, what gets me? This is like, oh, you can put a good camera back there yeah yeah. And that I think changes my relationship.

I know definite getting one. The other thing that I think is super important about this is we we just keep seeing this over over again. All these companies, little companies, are making gadgets for creators like there is a real market there.

Those people have needs. The needs are not perfectly met by pro hardware or pro cameras is a sweet spot there for twitch streamers and youtube ors and all that. And I think IT is fascinating.

I thought we would see a bunch. I suffered work from home in the pendel ve definitely seen some of its my cool little ducks. That market peaked red out because people were not like you buy at once and he goes away and there is not growing.

Hey, I want to grow up to a streamer. Or, hey, I run a small company in making content is the best market I can do in these things that I need some help doing IT. Well, that is a large and growing market.

And I just the amount of gadgets that are coming out to solve that problem is actually pretty fascinating. Yeah, and I got something excited about, but I think there's something durable there about the creator platforms that we haven't quite seen at. Like you have been a right a long time, this stuff to make youtube video as well.

There's not actually a lot of IT. You still kind of get fun all in about a Sunny camera. And premier.

you had the video podcasting where the first time you do, if you have to go in your google and there's like three websites, they look like absolute garbage and they give you the actual a list of stuff you want to buy and it's all like post stuff if you wanted to be good.

That market there's A A new sure. mike. yes. yeah.

And we've start to see in the last couple of years, we start to see like, oh, used to have to go buy a whole rig in order for my podcasting set up to sound nice. And now it's like pretty inexpensive for most people to just sound nice out of the box. And and I think we're getting rapidly to that place with cameras and in that hole set up and soon in the lights and everything else like everybody is, is going to look the same.

The game lights in the obviously, and they're come in, they're come in this right around.

just keep going out out of this, right. So mine is analog who makes really, really good emulation emulator. Slash consoles is doing in in sixty four.

And i'm perfect and very, very excited because in sixty four is the hardest, maybe not the hardest, but probably one of the hardest councils to emulate. Its super hard to emulate in software because the the process of resolve custom. And so you have have a really, really powerful computer to play a lot of in sixty four games if you're emulating them.

This is a little play cards. It's got an FPGA that like mimic the original hardware. So IT should be a lot faster, should play cards natively.

And then if you do somehow get software on IT, IT would play the software natively, the emulated games natively. And i'm just like, super, super excited for this thing. Yeah, like a little too excited.

I'm going to have one. The lack of stimulation for in six force made IT almost to forgotten council.

Yeah, because everybody is like, okay, what was on IT gold? And I was like.

important, the greatest game of all time. Yeah, mario, sixty four, perhaps the most important game of all time.

Yeah, I mean, mario, there was obviously the two legend and the zell does. And those are about IT when people talk about IT. But if you grew up in that age is like now create a lot of games like Chris, well, is always like W, C, W.

There was also the first mario tennis, which was the video game in my life. I have been best at IT .

wasn't the first mario tennis that was for the virtual boy.

Wow, David.

how dare you forget the virtual are.

So yeah, IT was the first one. That's not the first one people play IT.

Do you mean technically.

the first one was like the one someone made in their lab in japan. But I don't consider that one real. The first one was for the end sixty four.

I think there's just no pictures of you yet. There's like shadow, different things.

It's going to come later. I know we'll probably be talking that team and hearing more from analogue soon. I'm really, really excited. And IT just looks cool and also closer to a game cube from analog. And that's what I really want because they are so expensive on ebay and I really regret selling mine.

Can I tell you my story of game who regret?

Yes.

is face alone .

says it's going to be a great stories i'll tell you after the break .

climbs says have to tell you after break we'll right back everybody with the story of game cube regret.

Hey, it's lee from decoder with the detail. We spend a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why do they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series, diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you are listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players in testing not to acquire and instead license tech and hire away cofounded ers? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with the light pol presented by strike. You can listen to decoder whatever you get your podcast.

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what is IT? There's a story .

for my youth, but game you OK. So there is a bar by my apartment college of the cove, right on thursday night at the cove at at four dollar pictures. So we all went to the cove quite a bit.

is from the nineteen .

thirty years is a thing in hyper in chicago. The covered for our beach is so where is there? We are there a lot?

He's right.

Like no was not like he was like any garbage domestic are okay, but you can tell that a group, again, in the fifties, and this is the time that the the game cube was the state of the art constant.

Yeah, the war had just ended. Everybody.

yeah. So we're there are a lot we know, you know, the people come through. And one day hinna in is at the cove, then they're having a matter tournament. And like i'm in the man tournament, I don't know if they tried to play main on the game cube controller. IT makes no sense, like everyone was horrible that matter on the game tube like I wanted to go pull over in a car and look at the picture of a game hue controller. And imagine trying to play Martin on this thing.

Best in killer ever. Meet for .

playing three games.

So caliver.

in classic nintendo style, like we made this controller to play one specific mario game. A it's a game or lui j fights ghosts with water .

and there's only one. There's essentially one button on the game controller and all the rest of more tiny and thousands .

of miles away .

from each other about quickly deciding what button. And everyone's like audio yellow and like it's a disaster. So this is the longest matter tournament of all time, fuelled by four dollar pitchers of beer. So on top of that destroyed the long story is I won the man in tournaments, and I came home with a game cube, with the hinna, an logo silk screamed all over the top with my friends, and i'll called behind the cube. And if I only held on to this thing, max, to be going to college tomorrow, yes, I take her now.

Harvard, yeah. Hi.

cute baby.

That's my story. I thought that I was a sad story. That's an .

awesome story.

Why don't have that anymore? It's a loss of money.

I think I gave his, my friend Robert when he, when he graduated. Robert, if you listening, i'll send to you A T shirt in exchange for how to cube me.

I I have really good news for you. Uh, you can buy right now six nintendo honey king game cubes for the low, low Price of twenty thousand doll.

Where are you getting?

No, that's really. I just found this. I need.

Like like a lot of six hy naude.

six hyn cube, three purple, three black. There were only one hundred of the mid according as they listen, twenty thousand dollars.

I had one that .

could have mean you. Thirty three people have this on their watch list. I'm just saying .

I had one of these things for three years.

Now that anymore.

i'm so annoyed with myself, the very chase is over everybody. We're i've got to go back in time to pay. So my daughter can go to college, I have to invent a time machine and tell my, tell my drunk. Twenty two year itself, you hold on to that game view drive.

you give IT away and much worse.

And then playing the new matter. I have no idea how this game works anymore. When I describe matter is knowing what button to push quickly.

That is no longer true. It's like me now, right?

That's a whole other part of IT. There is like a whole poker version.

Now you have to know you've to know where to look and you have to like it's you've to know, like six buttons to press same time.

The game is so hard that they've added bullet time to IT.

No, no. Your football gotten too hard.

yes. Like this isn't how this works for anyone, right? Let's Carry on with our all lightning around show, although this is kind of like the tesla round because tesla head earnings are a lot of news buried in tesla earnings.

I will quickly start by saying as long you're talking about elon x, the artist formally known as twitter rolled out a plan where in two countries that start charging people a dollar to sign up on the web to keep away the boat. I don't know about you. If I, for example, had access to a bot form, I would quickly realize that I could just being cropped you on mask with credit card fees.

I don't know these friends that don't work. I don't have access to a about farm. I wish no ill will to anyone.

I'm just saying IT seems like you open the door or a particular kind of problem with this plan will set that aside, test your earning so kind like all over the place. You want to start with the cyber truck and you want to start the money let's art with the cybercrime right? Here's the quote elana says we dug our own grave with the cyber truck um because it's so complicated .

and so hard to make.

Ug, there's that aspect of IT, I would say run .

IT out there just a little feeling .

I have a they're gonna deliver the first few on november seventh. S at the factory in texas, the giga factory in texas. They have not said how much these will cost or to whom they .

will be delivered concerning .

you get the feeling these first these are like show deliveries. Kimball musk will take delivery of a cyber truck. It's it's like one of those things.

It's like who is buying them for what Price. There is no Price release. The only people by them are obviously that preexistent relationship with tesla and they will take delivery. Upon delivery, the Price will be revealed again, not how most people buy car. Just put that out there.

Although I will say if any company can make that a thing, it's tesla like yeah .

I think that specific .

hold this company has over a subset of people where they can .

just like .

I like for ari, I guess for ari does kindly .

do that ultra hi hyper car manufacturer.

It's like invitation only and then you find out afterwards, yes, but look at a ferry and look at a which one of those do you want to have enough money and spend IT on IT like you're that rich.

I can't wait for that moment to be a tiktok with picture for A A picture siber truck also .

because .

the cyber truck that we've seen.

and we've seen a lot of pictures of these things in the wild, they look like crap, like you like. I think reasonable people can disagree on whether the cyber truck is a cool looking vehicle or not. It's personally not my thing, but I know if there is lots of people's thing, fine.

The ones they're making look like shit, like they they are poorly made. Must have talked a lot about like the machine tolerances and how close everything has to be. They're out there with like essentially like duck day holding the pieces together, like they're not making this thing well right now.

And I think it's very funny that the people who are going to get the first ones are like the dye hearts. Either the tesla die hard or the union musk die heart or the cyberia ck die hard. And they're essentially going to get cars that look like I built them and like.

that's not good yeah so let me redo this quote. The rest of that, we dog and grave. And I want to see if people can make the connection to the other person who spoke like this.

We dug our own grave of the cybernetic at musk. The cyber truck is one of the special products that only comes along once in a long while. In special products that come along once a long while are just incredibly difficult to bring the market to reach volume and to be prosperous. So the first part of that is Steve jobs.

You i'm very excited .

to be standing here to you today. Every now again, you're lucky to make one special products like the mac or the ipod or the iphone. That's how we that's how we began. The iphone event is almost this line. Exactly what he did not say at the end of the iphone event was the iphone is going to be incredibly difficult to bring the market in a way that is prosperous.

We clearly know how to make this thing .

if the figures like apple didn't make phones at the time. Tesla is an existing high volume car company.

The iphone at the time was barely existent like right? The all the stories we've heard is like IT barely worked as a miracle. The demos came off as well as today.

They were like two of them on earth. Nobody knew how to do anything. And still some job got up. There was like, it's fine.

We ve got this today. Apple revolutionizes the fund. Like, that's what he say. And so I get you, you look at the cover of the book, there's a real Steve jobs thing happening with musk.

Ah you can he's he's now he's saying in the liance right is he's doing covers. I'm understand the cyber truck the competition is real and exist at volume scale in the market for electric pickup trucks right now is not great. Yeah like you can just go get in f one fifty lightning even in middle of U A W strike because the people who wanted them bought them. I think gm just cut back production of its intel electric pickup trucks because they're trying to figure out where the demand is.

I asked a friend who only ones trucks yeah everybody, your family, their rentals so they all on trucks. Everybody around them only drives trucks. You will like don't have small children in their parking .

lots because of the truck yes.

I said are are you excited about the cystic? It's coming. So what is and who that? Yeah, that's like the core. That should be the core audience like you. You drive IT all over the range and then you come back and you plugged in in at night and they are like, who?

yes. So now a lot of people are a lot of people like tests cars, which should get in the rested runnings, and we can dive into what that exactly means. I'm just saying this product is entering an incredibly saturated the market for very strong opinions, and its competition did not sit still.

I think what musk talking about here is a thing was still manufacturing and like unibody casting and that stuff makes the product special. But then IT still has to go be a product in, in particular aleck's. Pick up truck owers, I know pick up truck owners, we ad pick up truck forms. These are some of the most customized, most highly personalized vehicles that exists and .

been a ton of money. Yes.

the amount of money you can throw at a pick up truck there are like platform as unto themselves. And this one isn't tile and IT doesn't work.

yeah. Hey, do you think people.

american opinions are pick up trucks, like if you're driving a hundred thousand dollars triangle down on the road and there's panel ABS t do you think that the people have been doing the screaming matches about ford versus G M. Four hundred years are going to have opinions about this is going to be amazing uh, anyway, november thirty, the first deliveries but I don't think a regular person, let alone a car reviewer, isn't their hands on .

this thing till yeah I think .

that's maybe late next year um so that the cyberia ck there is no discussion of the whip. I know everyone wants to know something I care about. People have seen they're taking pictures of the truck.

I'm saying if you encounter one of these trucks, don't take pictures of the side, we know what shape that is. Take pictures of the wiper man and get up in IT. I want macro shots of the wiper. Take the whip off the cybernetic and bring IT in new life. I've heard a theory about how that wiper is constructed, and none of the images i've seen so far confirm than .

I is going to like a whip.

I I don't want it's an unsourced. I never put the energy into the world.

okay?

I need some photographs, this thing up up close and personal to to confirm or deny the theory of her not telling what IT is. Okay, the other little tesla earnings news, the actual money so look can pretty weird that's good and bad all .

the same time. Um I think the numbers they reported that I just had done that was twenty three point four billion dollars in revenue, uh, which was up from the same time last year. Like they they're making money in selling cars earnings way down.

They made about two little less than two billion dollars in profit, down from three point three billion, uh, on about the same revenue last year. So tesla has a bunch of reasons for this, right? They're like they are making big upgrades in the factories.

So production goes down a little bit, which means you're onna make less money. Are also something something A I and supercomputers that I I don't know, elon was just like this, robots a lot and people ago that makes sense for your earnings. And I don't care about that.

Uh, the biggest thing is they keep cutting the Price. Like these used to be expensive cars, and they are really not expensive cars anymore in a lot of places. And I think what is happening is that tesla is selling more cars because it's making them much, much cheaper to get in a time when that is not a lot of companies strategy at the moment, which has been sort of fascinating.

And tesla for a long time had like crazy profit margins. Like cars, you probably stand as much Better than I do. But my impressions cars are not a high margin industry. And for tesler, they have been and that is starting to go away in a big way.

I was like twenty percent margin in some of the earlier years. And now it's like not that most car .

big car companies make all of their money on financing. And so they they have just sort of brought the margin of the cars themselves s down. Because they assume that you're going to lease the car and you'll make all the money in at least and then you'll give the car back to them and i'll sell IT again and a much higher margin.

So like a company in a bmw, basically assuming they're onna, sell every three serious twice, and that's just like baked into the model. And that's why bmw in particular is like car play is here when you lease IT and when you buy a prion one to cost forty dollars, right? They're they're able to monkey with IT because they know the dynamics of how they sell at vehicle, not what people expect.

Tesla also had benefit early on of having consolidated basically all of the car into a single compute stack. So like your average G M R R ford vehicle has like five thousand suppliers in IT in five thousand different micro controllers and tests as like there's one right in a consolidate and IT was more expensive is harder wait architecture car and every car company see what like. That's what they going to do to but they just had less stuff in the car, yeah, less engine stuff, less transmission components, less exhaust stuff, but also more importantly, less fewer microcontrollers and computers.

And they own all the cut. So they just had this ability to create all that margin. But now if you look at tesla, financing rates sky high, while the big auto makers are like back to point nine percent because they just desperately wanted to buy a car, you know and like they're fighting a war there where they're just lowering Prices. Elon won a rant about interest rates. He has, I don't think, to have that business that like the financing business, the big car makers to so like in the middle of this earnings that they asked him something really silly.

right? But he answered the question about the tesla and he compared to the right for for some reason that that was interesting. So he said, if our car costs the same as a red for, no one would buy a rap for, or at least they would be very unlikely to, which is a bold procol nian.

But then then he said, I think since so many people who buy cars, especially in the U. S, can't afford to wait for tax credit or something, uh, our cars still much more expensive than arrive for when you look at IT that way, which is like not a one hundred percent of stocking up. But he's he's got a lot of thoughts about how people who make a lot of money don't understand what life is like for people who don't make a much me. And I think the case he's trying to make is that it's good. The Prices are going down, which like, yeah sure I am I am pro this i'm not sure how he tides that back to interest rates maybe you can make so he's based like .

interested for two I people can finance these cars, right? And then he saying our cars more expensive and so it's even harder to finance them. And that's what I think tesla has not built up that like low zero interest, great financing because that's just not where theyve made their money and you can hat like they're valid pine. So that's a Better way to do IT like bw every car twice because assume the first purchase will finance release that you can have a lot of opinions, I think you should. But IT just true that in the market today, tesla just like sales cars.

yeah, and IT doesn't sell them very well. Like this is a company that is actually pretty bad at the whole finance.

And just like test less website there about this car, you can finance IT, you can lease IT or can buy and cash and like they kind of want interest by and cash, right? And I think they're de all the a lot model sis in cash. actually.

You they want to take big coin for the cars like they pioneer a new way and they don't move the Prices and there's no negotiation of stuff. But what is happening is he's bringing the Prices of the cars down, reducing the margin. And investors on the call are asking him, are you also reducing the cost of the car to preserve your margin? It's got a quote here that says it's like game of thrones for pennies.

That's how we just try producing cost of which is actually a great quote. Um and I think what is happening is he's feeling all of this pressure from high interest rates, weird economic environment. He calls credit or interest .

rates you .

serious yeah he's got this real popular streak in him yeah and I think what he's basically saying is the market is unfair to me at tesla. Everyone should want to buy my car like why are you pushing a right for you know you you should want a model three.

which is goofy because nobody wants. So I mean, a lot of people obviously do on a model three, but it's not a well made car like arrive for is pretty well saved. It's not going to have enormous panel gaps. I can fit my whole hand. I guarantee the same on a tesla.

right? And then this all transition, by the way, into a and against work from home, where, David, I believe he compared people who work from home to marry and when and which is pretty good.

IT is very good yeah. And he, I think the question was something relatively benign. Like do you think that more people working from home and does not commuting and Carrying ing a lot about gas mileage in their course might have an effect on on tesla, which I would argue like a perfectly fair question ask any car company right now.

Yeah and I think the quote was, um yeah he said, these are some real merry and one vives from people who say, why doesn't everyone work from home? What about all the people that have to come to the factory and build the cars, which is a funny thing to save from elan musk w has been like very demanding about people coming back to work. And all the people have to go the restaurant and make your food and deliver your food.

It's like, what are you talking about? How detached from reality does the work from home crowd have to be what they take? Advances of those who can work from home? Interesting, again, sort of popular streak. Funny thing to save from the guy who has been swilling very expensive electric cars for a really long time and is also the richest man on earth.

And also, by the way, the CEO of four companies, thus, by definition, working remotely at three jobs at all times.

and has been very demanding of about bringing people back toward.

just saying, always working remote, if you can. There's one person, he was definitely ally, always remote from at least to one of his jobs. Seems like he's gna done.

IT will see. So there's this a lot going on. A tesla. I think that company, particularly as some of the twitter debt comes due and there's lots of questions about how that will be secured and whether those bankers it's all tesla money, it's propping that up. So just a lot of pressure yeah on tesla right now.

Yeah yeah. And they just seem like the the push that they've been making is to make like a thoroughly mainstream everybody can afford IT kind of car. And you can see, I think he said something. I was like digging a tunnel with a spoon, I think was the way he freeze IT and like, I believe him, right? Like it's I think it's going every dollar to get out of that car from now on in order to make IT the Price of a like honda civic is gonna be a fight. And especially in a time when money is hard to come by in lot of things really expensive, a lot of people, it's going to be interesting to see yeah, which is like why you would think the cyber truck, which is presently going to be very expensive, would be like a serve for a lot of that something except they can't figure how to make IT.

which seems like a problem, could be like a hundred thousand dollars, right? If I ever .

comes out in look on saying, as I heard a rimmer about the cyber truck, when should leaper? Yeah, you can just send me some really close photos of IT not that is two other lighting around pieces of the puzzle also important in the context of teslin in future? Yes, you can argue that if the cards are well made or not, you know you know, it's really just can you justify can you can you make an emotional argument that why doesn't matter?

Chicken, a lot, lots of people can yeah the mode for testers for so long as if you are in the market for E, V, they have the single best charging network. And then they opened up the standard. And acs, the by administration said, you want this money, got to open your network.

Tesla chose the money they could have, not chosen the money. I i've seen a lot of people say the right administration forced tesla and opening its network if danglin huge sums of money and think I will give you this money if you make this decision is is forced, that's fine. You can believe that that's true.

But that is the dynamic here. The administers we're going to invest in, charging in infrastructure. Here's a bunch of money for interests that we'd like some of that money. So they open up their network charge point is going to do ncs plugs into its network of medium experiences. It's hard to say about all of the non tesla .

charging network. This is the behind the gas station that .

you have to charge elective america. The two big networks. yeah. Charge one is one work.

If you are in a small town and like is there a charger here? There's like one in front of the library is running. It's running on one twenty. It's like that to a point. Election amErica is like we've built a thing to longer vw use reputation for keys, okay? And there's Better okay, this is correctly even wrong, but is broadly true of these two networks.

Yeah no, that's that's basically right. And no one is very good at making charges that like work over time and aren't broken or wild. The complicated whenever ver you pull into the .

ah so charge is going to do IT so and they have a picture. The funny thing about this is E V S C charging plugs are the least exciting thing to take a picture of, but they have to put photos their press releases. So it's just like a guy hold plot. I don't described this, but here's a photo of us with a tesla charger. It's like here's a guy.

Hand out there's this. He's almost .

charging the car but he isn't you like, great uh, they're going to do IT. Um there are other new charges. A command called gravity has new, much smaller charges designed for urban environments are really fast, actually faster than any car market take right now.

So you see there's lot of action on the charging front because of N, C, S. yes. B, M, W just said they're going to go and other car companies are in the by five. So you see, okay, this thing will be the standard and we're gna eventually stop talking about the super treasury network as a mote. We're going to start talking about charging cars and that that I think that's onna change the day to test is yet again.

Ah I don't think tesla is long for this world like fifteen fifteen years.

You're crazy. I'm sorry, I love you is crazy. And I want this by sadness because I know what you think. You think that tesla have bad build quality and people are going to overtime at all.

The batteries are going na die or explode and people going to pass.

That's true. Uh, people love range rovers.

They shouldn't .

like a modern range rover mostly does .

not work pretty.

They look amazing. But I like went to buy one, just like a look at one because it's like jacky stream car. And then like people are jumping out of blueish is being like don't stay .

away my dad was not one of them, he one ah but not .

anymore. We you but i'm just saying I people love cars like they keep sound range vers.

They love them. Let's tesla future.

they keep on ford in shame, pick up trucks. Tesla has fans like that way longer than fifteen years. Yeah, we had to take a break, more lightning round to come. But this time they are actually gonna board of lightning, not extended deliberations.

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of light to fee. What is .

car right? I ve got a few telecom lightning around ones, a few just a cup i'm going to try to bundle together. So today, mechanical Kelly is in washington, D C, as we speak, watching the S, C, C.

Vote to restore neutrality, which has not done. But biden finally fully staffed fcc, hit by the pure failure on jain's part to just not have a functioning fcc for most of visit administration thus far. But he finally pulled off.

He got all the people. They're gonna go do IT. A lot of people are going to tell you I didn't matter.

We haven't had IT this long. The telecom companies into bad things. No one struggled their data. They're lying to you. They're lying to y're lying to you for two reasons.

One, there is a bunch of state net neutrality laws in the books in new york and california, all these other big places. And two, the telecom companies have done a bunch of dumb things, uh in the blown a lot of money and attempted to do bad things. They were just such horrible ideas.

They blow up in their faces and resulted in massive way off across the industries that they covered. For example, a company called eighteen and two and a few never heard of. There is a little thing you you know a funny thing about A N T.

I know people know this. You can actually split IT up into hundreds of little companies. And I will slowly reform over time. Just blow back together. There is again.

And one of those companies will be HBO for ten minutes.

Yeah, it's amazing. Anyhow, it's like my White me, right eighteen T H bt time Warner, uh, in order to zero rate data on its network and make you watch a grey scale justice week because .

my data cap was the reason I was worked about streaming services.

Real a real thing um anything so then try to go back in the books if you are the sort of person is generally worried about sensor ship on the internet.

I would say that free speech on mine, a set of keywords that usually implies people slightly from politics of mine, but if you are worried about sensor ship on the internet, you should be worried about IT at the pipe layer most of all, because that is the least transparent, the least accountable, the least competitive part of the international fact. You should say, okay, we should definitely not have any control over data here. Now I I firm I firmly believe this that is an inappropriate place for any kind of censorship or throttle or business small interference with information. So that's what you again, mechanical is there. We're going have a weird fight about IT brenin car, classic bad faith fcc hoxie like given powerpoint presentations about everything's great within our access amErica that we're .

going to cover you. Does he like a little .

sponsored by a TMT at the bottom of the deck? Just it's a death star. Um similarly, you might have noticed that i've paid a lot of attention to the end of the 5g era is i've taken the calling yeah I was like.

new is looking towards seventy. What are you talking about?

Yeah whenever I get one of the P R emails about talking about six innovations and like you'd dummy, i've been a nine year this whole time, turn that front of set down. Nokia is cutting fourteen thousand jobs by way. You know nokia says eighty success employees.

They became an infrastructure provider. And there is a thought that why I would take over the world of infrastructure and then we like basically band Willy, the europeans basically ban while away from providing solid infrastructure. Um so come is like Simons and nokia all invested heavily into five g equipment.

That's the stuff that's turning right now. Nokia has now cut fourteen thousand jobs. The reason the Operators have found a chAllenging to monitise their five g investments.

that's a quote, that's a quote.

that's a quote. That's a quote from the CEO of nokia. This is why we're cutting fourteen thousand jobs.

The Operators invested. So every in five g with no plan yeah to make money. And now they're cutting back on their further investment because there is no money here. So we know here cutting forty thousand jobs. Here's where you could put a bunch of five g towers .

rural america. The back all sure.

But i'm just like like what are the promises of these networks is that you will bring broadband to more people more effectively. That is not done. We have lots of listeners, readers in america. Ali book care about that is quite a bit yeah but can I care is about IT quite a we pay a lot of attention to IT the broadband appointments.

I don't care just apparently I don't care at all about .

rural road band. I'm not. City slicker appears. City slow.

Carboy, right? Well.

john travolta, floor of a new york skyscrapers. You on.

And I was saying is IT didn't happen. They did the thing that they always do. Yeah, they blew a bunch of money. They made a bunch of promises. They served urban areas and covered the highways of america.

And nowhere else. I would argue internet actually got them worse in rural america, like especially phones used to I could drive from one town to another. My mom's to visit, my mom have phone hallway. And now every time I go down the little hill, I say, i'll call you back at .

the end of this every time .

is very consistent that if you .

stand a street corner hair in new york city under a street light, yeah, you can like .

ten gags down. I just tell my mom, like, go new york .

standard. Uh, look, all that is the amount of nationalist retorts that we heard about. Five g, we have to win the race, otherwise china will win the race.

And then they'll be doing the robot surgery. And you'll be, I know, working with a shovel for the rest of life. Do you remember this? I remember red very clearly.

We and i'm still on the hunt for five applications are require five G H H N T released a helmet. They did go to university. I think that I pronounced they mean helmet for football players who are death and has displays in the visor, like in my call plays.

and very cool where where's the football played like in rural america? sure.

Just i'm just like looking at the thing like this is not you don't need five g for this helmet.

just need wifi.

Good wifi would have gotten you there, right? This is kind of the level that we're at with this technology to this day. We're pretending that five years enabling applications well.

And it's part of the reason stuff like an okay and use this disappointing is that we were promised that the reason five g was gna win was because I was so deployable you don't have to take trenches in the same way you can. You can actually get this thing to people more easily than they can use IT using like devices in for structure. They already have sounded good. And now to see everyone pulling back because they can't figure IT had is like immediately monitise. This small speed increase that people like the three of us got from five g means the people were talking about who actually could have benefited from five g being rolled out in their towns where gig trenches is hard work not going to happen.

That sucks. Yes, I just get the pivot to sixty is coming so hard.

What will the surgery be like?

They peal the carrot. It's going to be amazing .

OK netflix ices again, which we knew is .

coming yeah .

we knew we knew it's happening. Um it's only for two of the plans this time. One is is the basic plan, it's going to be eleven ninety nine. The other is the premium plan, which gives you you fork and everything that's going to be twenty two.

ninety nine.

That's right in the that's I R see, i'm upset. But at the same time, I thought I was paying that already for that. So I like this sucks but disclosures .

I have an eighteen t account. I have for some time a netlik producer um we made netlik show. It's all the future if we can watch a netflix x for any number of Prices apparently .

including with .

that there is a little little little l com duncan and I comcast through a subsidiary university 一点 um and for now， lets see what else we have .

to get into yeah ah conchas provides my internet and it's very slow most of the time .

we've got in some things, you're not taking serious ly. There's a serious disclosures that there are all real conflicts you can evaluate, we want you .

to know ah the only kind of like bright side of this is the basic plan or no, the ad supported plan, the six ninety nine plan used to you couldn't get offline downside so if you were gonna beyond plane sex.

Y U, no, you do. Do I pay money to? Is a that's that we fine .

to me that's like that doesn't bother me at all and you'll get good at like dynamic c ads the way that like podcasts work. There's a good chance filing the show. You've heard dynamically placed ads based on what you dominated.

There's one thing that i've always have heard from our listeners is that our work great.

Yeah, it's perfect. Anything ever goes wrong with them in the guader acec. But no, what's truly wild to me about this is so the thing you get for the premium Price, which is twenty three dollars now is you get four case streaming, uh, and I believe you get four at a time.

So like you can, you up to four people can be watching, which isn't really true because of the way that the password sharing suffer. Ks, so like, I used to have the four screens account because I was feasible that four different people might be using our account at the same time, probably not realistic ick for most people anymore. So I think you're already probably overpaying, but that's also the only way to get four.

K, so if that's the thing you care about, netflix just knows that. Can troy te, everyone, but you can now get the ad supported version on six screens for less than the cost of the premium like IT. It's just so transparent that netflix will charge you whatever IT has to in order to get you to switch to ads.

Like that's just what is going to be. They're going to Price gg you until you switch the ads. You and the upper limit of that gardening knows like premium might cost fifty dollars in a year because if there will be, it's like the people who still pay for a well on desk, there will be some of those people and it's likes will gouge them for every penny their worth.

So I understand that. And so this pretty easily, right? We have a lot of people to ask us why you can just pay us to turn off IT. And the answer is, if you just look at the revenue drop, that would cause the Price I would have to make you pay .

more than you think.

especially in a market where like the basic thing that we provide, which is technical, is readily available for free. All the time the kids on tiktok, tus, reading verge articles of the thing that I I can't Price set the market right. I think netflix is discovering the same thing.

But the bigger issues for me as a big media nerd is 4k the only way I can get four k as to be Price skeletal。

And like they know that that there's a perfect Price last year there. If you want four, kay, if you're us, yeah there's a zero percent chance i'm paying anyone anything for .

less than fourteen yeah. Only reason I do IT is for 4， don't have tvs running networks in my .

house all the .

time I shut just can use that fires.

And I I guarantee you netflix is going to spend the next three years testing that theory of you. Like the question is, will you cancel before you switch to hd? That's the thing netflix is trying to figure out. Yes, I will.

Before I switched to hd.

I don't believe you and I don't think netflix does he there, but we're going to test that theory.

They don't know what I know about websites on the internet.

Sex to be. We're just onna start writing heads like the four K H. Reo max is free. Yeah like just shaming them in the competing. That's our function .

in journalism. true. It's true. David.

Take you a spot. Five Victory. Lab minds very quick. And it's just because i'm very proud of myself. I said on the show not terribly long ago that spotify should stop mucking around with trying to be the tiktok for audio or whatever that means, and just try to win IT music, because for all of the stuff going on in the world and all of the audio things out there, we actually don't have a really great music APP at this moment in time.

There are a lot of like apple music nerd who are gonna tell me and tell me I am wrong, but you're wrong. Apple music is not a good product either. They're all bad.

And spotify um appears to be slowly taking my device. Um IT has sold merch through spotify for a long time. If that's a thing you want to do, there are tools for that.

But IT is now rolling out A A dedicated hub for artist merch on spotify. This is the thing you're gonna start to see. A lot of you're going to see merch, you're gone to see ticket sales, you're going to see all kinds of ancillary.

So you like this music, here's how we can make money from you stuff coming to spotify. But I just I Andrew marino, our producer, went back and found the tiktok that we published of me saying this and I was exactly right and i'm very proud of myself and also good jobs. Spotify, stop trying to pretend that all the other after are doing is gonna exclusive podcasts were a stupid business. You wasted a lot of money and matches actually got work.

Uh, ted companies are really bad in media companies. The only tech companies, everyone got to be immediate. Netflix, you don't think very good. Me.

I think there are a lot of people who argue netflix was never really attack company. 那 flix is always a media company。 Master ating as a test, never a tech company.

I got valued like a tech company, I would agree, but it's also it's a bad media company. IT is not a very well run media company because I can't put out bangers IT puts out like me.

you're paying twenty three dollars a month for that.

alex. I know it's because i'm watching ugly Betty right now and I .

don't have IT on DVD email. Tell us, tell us if you will quit before you drop forking. I'm actually really curious where the audience is on this. This is a self selecting group. I think I already know the answer, but I I would like a little data from the version of audience. Will you quit netflix before you downgrade from the four cap eline and tell me why? Because i'm sort of desperate to I think i'm gone before I lose for K.

I believe that for one second.

yeah, I have. I married to someone who watches a lot of comedy and netflix, who probably doesn't care. This is going to be, this is going to be whole conversation.

We have flashes on. Ten were washing like ad supported sd comedy specials in our house before I dropped this thing. right? That's we're way over.

We am spitten mad. He's not actually, he's smiling. He loves IT everyone rightly.

In a nice note, a nice note. We'll see you later. Lots of great stuff on the site this week as a budget.

The youtube news actually like incremental youtube changes that are really interesting, including an AI feature where when people say like and subscribe, the bell start shaking. This is hilarious, like a perfectly or economy moment. Um G T V has a great piece on ecole and it's like ever expanding ambitions in the home.

SHE compares IT to nest. The headline is it's becoming the company next one wanted to be if you know anything about me in version, you know that we start our first big feature was on next, like I wrote IT with tony fadel, and I remember him telling me his ambitions. But the company is obviously failed in spectacular fashion because google.

So I loved this piece, but he could be. And how they're building up their ecosystem, very cool, all kinds of great stuff on the site. And then we would missed to not note that there is a war happening in israel and gaza.

We have a lot of coverage of the information space of that war on our site. There's a lot going with misinformation. This information.

I just need to take a break from IT during the verge chest, many of our listeners who told us the same, but there's a lot of coverage in the sit working that so seriously, go look at that, particularly what is going on in the europe. The digital service is act and the european governments being able to issue take down request of social network is new. You have a lot of implications for a lot of things in the future. okay. That's all on the site that that's her chest, right?

And that's IT for the bird cast this week. We'd love to hear from you give us a call at eight, six, six bird one one. The verge casts production of the verge and box media podcast network, our showers produced by Andrew marino and liam James. That's IT.

We'll see you next week.

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