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Helen, welcome the verge chest, the flagship podcast of integrating apps in the five G, A plan that totally worked. And now we live in a utopia of robot surgery in video conferences today. What's utopia like?

We're the flexi podcasts of all of the so long to the flagship potest.

It's a big concept, is not a lot of competition in the space. And that's that's business. Baby, you ve got to find, you got to find your your niche. I'm a friend. The idea that appears is here.

Hi I I too immigrated into five looks.

Crimes is here. Alex is in same sisco. yeah.

I mean, sympathy. Ca, wondering, like who isn't integrated into five g at this point? Come on. I get IT together.

I saw in one of the trade publications, I saw headband that was like the host thing in five g isn't public five g networks and but it's private five. Like, obviously the other things. sure.

yeah. So they ve given up on us the lowly public and your private five g network for warehouse Operations is where the money is. And I just want to go back in time and like show people that headlined in meetings, you're lying. The hottest thing in public.

five g is still slightly faster. Netflix down those in the airport before you get the plan.

which is in Better. So I don't hate IT. We just fix the wifi in networks in the airport. I think we would have got, uh, anyway, this is not the fact ship podcast of any that although I promise you there will be a slight amount of telecom 5g dunk in this episode of our chest。

That's what we do every episode. Yeah.

this is our lives. A lot time with is a bunch ous streaming news this week lack had a redesign. We have some reader emails, which are always fun. Uh, there's some car play news to get into. Got a mr.

Beast update there, just like a lot going on a summer grab bag, but like we did last week, we want to begin by just getting the elon news out of the way. We know you like IT, even though you tell us you don't like IT. I don't know how to describe the exact phenomenon yet.

Tell us loudly you hate IT in the comments of the post that you have clicked on red to the bottom and then left IT. IT is a weird dynamic, but we know, you know you want IT. So David, can you just give us quickly all of the elon news this week that's worth talking about?

sure. okay. here. Here is everything i've compiled that has happened this week that matters.

再见。 That helps early all the case.

The world of you on is actually worth noting, just a dull roar of noise. And that's where we are this week with land.

So that's good. The only actual election, I will say, is that casey newton wrote a very good issue of platform that we also ran on the verge about how we talk about elan that I thought that was very good and very instructive.

And people should go on former is great. Okay, let's talk about national news. We've been sort of talking about this moment in streaming the two strikes that are going on, the interlocking structure. The writers and actors bob iger gave an interview, e, to see and be see a while ago that said, everything a stray. Then there is the news that said the writers coming back to the table to studios disney head earnings, which are really revealing, alex.

what is going on in the world streaming. Well, I think the big thing is disney is high in the Price of hou and disney plus, but only the ad free version. So if you're already paying seven, ninety nine a month for the ads, you're fine.

Keep in doing all of those beautiful ads. If you are like me trying to avoid the ad, the Prices have gone up. Disney plus is now going to thirteen, ninety nine. And then who u no ads is going to cost seventy and ninety nine. But if you want to keep both, you can just pay nineteen ninety nine. And I think the streamers we're looking out in the world and they are thinking, okay, how can we make this pricing scheme make sense? And they just looked to like cellphone providers, like that's my best guess because it's just like caught confusing garbage.

Can I just say there's able in the story we wrote about the Price hike that lay is out, the different Prices that you can pay for disney's various streaming services and IT is like dragged how complicated this is. If you want disney plus, there's two options. If you want who u there's four options, including one that is an E S P N plus with hou ad, on which I guess is also hou.

If you want E S P N plus, there's three other ones. If you want bundle offerings, there's three other ones. And if you just want to do with plus live TV, there's two other ones. So basically, you have like four hundred thousand different ways to get all of disney content. But it's abundantly clear, alex cramp and wrong, the thing disney would really like you to do is pay seven, ninety nine and watch ads.

Yes, because why have a streaming service when you can just have a couple of cable channels where you don't have to deal with cable Carriers? Like if if a business person that makes a lot of sense to be if i'm a person who wants anything to be nice and effort and work smoothly, IT makes no sense. But but like the business case makes a lot of sense. And I hate IT because IT makes so much sense. But yeah, we're just kind of like back to cable again p but we've do IT all ourselves, which is, I mean, that was at the point, right, like that was that was that was the initial promise this, all right, like we were going to cut our cables and then we were going to really happy because we could discuss, and I would never have to pay for esp. N again.

What i'm learning now in my old age is that by making everyone pay for everything, we subsidized, ed, a lot of the niche stuff. yes. So everyone that was forced to pay for usp n that made them a lot of money, just a lot of money that they could then subsidize a lot of stuff with.

like the disney channel.

right? And then when you break IT all up and you say everyone pay for exactly what you want, IT turns out like that's expensive. Everyone will pay for exactly what they want and everything will make smaller, like the pie will stay the same as size, but IT will have more slices and that's not great.

And so it's very clear they're trying to get back to, okay, you pay for access to this. The advertisers will come in because the advertisers will spend a lot of money, and i'll give us the margin to go to subsidize all the other stuff. It's not clear if that's going to work here, there, but that's just very .

much what they would like to go back to. Yeah, yeah. I mean, IT is deeply hilarious to me. How quickly we're going back to IT should just be like cable, but Better.

And it's like if if you could just go back twenty years and be any of these big cable providers and if they were just like, what if we just let people pick the shows they wanted to watch and changed to nothing else, they would have just dominated the universe for forever. Because IT turns out that all people actually, like, I just wants to choose what show is on, turned out to be the only behavior anybody actually wanted to change. Everything else was like, pretty all .

right in this. There there sports echo stic folks like who didn't want to have to pay for S P. M.

And now I don't have yet about all the people who watched E S P. N were paying for the disney channel. And Nicholas an and all of the other stuff on your T.

V. That got funded by the fact that the S. P N made too much money, like E S. P. N was such a cash cow for disney that IT funded all the other stuff. And so it's just like in a way this system like didn't make any sense, but actually seems like IT kind of worked except that cable was bad and expensive.

Yeah i'm like like every like fifteen years or so, there's A A last suit from someone is like my taxes go to the military and I don't want my taxes as to go to the military. They lose that was us. That was also goes in the court. Like now that is you pay your taxes, you got going to aside. That's esp N E S P N is the military industrial complex and we, the american consumers should be forced to pay our taxes because that subsidizes like the thirty fifth show on the distant channel and that's how that's gonna work .

well and it's like, do you know how that like your google maps knows where you are? Like think the right for GPS being a thing, right? It's like IT turns out, like all of this stuff is connected a little more than so.

But this is like disney had earnings, right? And their earnings are mixed bags. Earnings are never that interesting talking about, but they lost the bunches of subscribers in india because they lost the rights to cricket.

So disney plus is coming back down to earth, but the parks are doing well, and it's just unclear what new content they will have because of the strikes either notably was like, I hope we can figure this out this time. Where's a few months ago? He was like, i'm very disturb by the sick basterds. You know like the tone has shifted a little bit and I just seems clear, like disney, they've got a they've got a power through this moment and actually have stuff worth buying and watching, and it's sort of unclear what that stuff is going to be.

Well, and that's that's part of this too is like you think okay, they did see plus and marvel was force to be a big subscriber. Like the main reason people are subscribe to disney plus because they have children. But everybody who doesn't have children, my self included, we want to like, why would we want to go subscribe? And the idea was, okay, well, you're going to subscribe for star wars. You gonna subscribe for marvel. And then all those shows are kind of garden.

Yeah, that sounded like a pretty compelling argument. And even at the beginning of is pretty like one division was great. The men, the Lorry was great.

IT was like, IT started well. And then just over the course of the next few years, they just systematically got worse, right, as all the other factors got harder for disney. And so it's just like this perfect storm of like what is the pitch here and the teams to get harder .

and her all the time like you could not get pay people to care about secret invasion, which was the the latest marvel show. I I watched all of that. I know what happened. Do I ever want to talk with anyone .

else about IT IT? Like.

barely want to would admit that you watch the here's my understanding of speaker and invasion just to be clear, I have not watched IT barely paid attention to IT. It's the show where everyone has revealed to be an alien so that they can be cast new actors in those .

worlds the next movie yeah the kind of like that's a big part of IT.

But my sense of IT is the reveal in every episode is this beloved character has always been an area.

This person is secretly an alien.

That show is just like it's like an inter mission between marvel fix. They're just like here's we're going to reboot the show over seven yeah different episode then at the end of IT. No, I think so bad .

like it's it's .

cynical on its face like just even I know that much about IT, which I don't even think that spoilers like the shows called secret invasion I think yeah that's what IT is on the tin, you know like I don't think I spoiled anything about the show for anyone. But it's like we need some new actors so what all the old actors are revealed to be aliens and then they get in a spaceship and go back to their home planet. It's like, oh, this is you guys are really out of ideas here like you're starting over and now that's a sport or i'm sorry.

never mind.

guess so. But the big picture here is just generally across the streaming market. Disney has these problems. They're going to start doing some net lix, and they're onna actively explore a cracking down and password sharing, which seems are virtually well for netflix. They keep gesturing at the idea of selling themselves to apple this OK.

Okay, I want to like this is this is what I want to, I want to use. I'm going to drop A A curse word here. This is another bullet.

This happens like every time apple is one of those companies that is a tune of money, and they always have to turn to cash around, right? And so everybody I oh what did they do with IT? And like six seven years ago, like they should buy netflix yeah and they're never gonna netflix because that doesn't make sense. First.

they absolutely should have bought that first yeah would .

have been great that but they were never going to because IT didn't make sense in the idea they were going to go. And like tim cook, whose entire thing is like making money by being really smart about logistics, is going to take on the raise and the theme park industry. He cooks Better retirement.

He doesn't yeah, that's why you buy disney at the end and you're like, look, Bobby ger, you hate retiring. Have you thought this year? Here you go. I bought disney. You just i'm a tim cook here yeah.

now you go and do all the key OS.

My swan song is headsets and cruises together at last. Then he just rides off in the sunset.

It's a very like retirer .

y and a horse ative money. This is the future of cruise es is you get on and you put on your apple vision pro on your disney crews, and he sit our client.

But you're not actually on a boat at all.

You are just at home. Well, you're year.

year in a sound stage, at rocks.

a little a system. This, by the way, plot of wali. So a little worried, but at least at the end.

you they save earth, I don't know. So the disney apple thing has always seemed suspicious to me. Like to the point where it's I I have always agreed with you, alex, that this is like a thing people say because IT sort of seems like IT makes sense, but never was actually real. But the two things that happened this week that I thought were very interesting were, uh, kid masters at the high reporter who is very much like a person who knows everything about what happening in hollywood route. A one of those stories that is like half reported and half speculative, but it's only speculative because you can't say out loud the things that other people have said to you that you know for sure, right?

Reading between the lines, this thing is like very accurate and very well source about, basically, hypothetically, if you were disney, here is what you would do if you want to tell your company that apple you would divest, you would pull the different pieces apart, and you would essentially turn yourself into a company full of characters and IP without a lot of stuff a attached to IT, and then you would sell that to apple. And then you look around and, oh, that's exactly what Bobby gar kind of sad, like he wants to do with disney. And so that happened.

The piece is very good. It's we have a linked uh, on the verge we should put in the china to like kim zz is a person who knows thanks and I I trust I I don't think kim is like making this up how a whole lot and and then the other thing was somebody on diseases earnings call asked by bigger directly something to the effective or you're selling to apple ah and his answer was he said, basically i'm not going to saying anything. It's not something that we obsess about and then he said, obviously, anyone who wanted to speculate about these things would have to immediately consider the global regulatory environment and then he said, i'll say no more than that. How do you not read that as gotta really like to but lean economy, the ftc super, super, super would not allow like I don't know how else to read that statement for both eager yeah.

And I think that that goes back to the the fact that this isn't gonna happen. I mean, theoretically, ally, I could right again, I don't want to say it's never gonna happen, but it's very unlikely to because the E. U. Would come down on that new combined company like they would never allow that to happen. And IT would be just borderline unconstant for the ftc to let two of the biggest companies, the company that has like a practical monopoly in the theater space, practical monopoly and all these other spaces and the ability has a APP stormonth ly, combine into one mega company like that's bad business. And list your bob biker.

I'm, i'm, i'm going to make the argument. Do IT okay, keep up. I'm coming back to disney and see.

wow.

Congratulated the first thing by boyer says every room. Look, I was leaving, but I will come back now. Here's, I have two arguments.

smoke. The one is like a straight argument. We can go through this microphone, activision, and eventually the eu caved and the ftc lost.

And like whatever, right? Like IT is the same shape of thing, right? The big distribution platform buys a bunch of content.

We seem to not know how to stop IT. IT just happens. fine. Maybe I will just happen. I don't know if well, but obviously, bobbi gers thinking about the global regulatory environment, then there's I think what I would frame is the chaos argument, which is let them dance you like. This is how companies fall apart is like they get too big yeah and then this thing seems unmanageable in my apple le's corporate culture will crush disney and then maybe we'll be free like that is the worst argument I can make IT, is, I would say the argument that, for example, has proven to be correct in the case of every eighty acquisition in history. But thought I could go ahead by time Warner, try to try to rule the world.

Yeah, I know you say a little time Warner is exactly this kind of verger that you're .

describing also yeah and it's like, yeah go head try see see that where you see if you are not destroyed by your own hubris. I'm not saying that's a great policy. I come many, many people lose their jobs along the way, and lots of art doesn't get made. Although with time more eighteen, we did get the Grace scale four by three justice league. So that happened.

What could I get like a marvel movie just shot all vertically. So IT fits perfect on your iphone profile.

That's what you're getten. Yeah, I should do. I just think if i'm tim cook, i'm looking at the history of these kinds of integrations and i'm saying, oh, actually in the end, this never works out like IT doesn't matter what the regulators like. If you are a smart business person, you look at integrations of this size and you like, oh, this is death like this is what kills both companies in like a meaningful ways of the end of the .

he's told people know in the past, right? Like wasn't there the one where elon was like, please buy tesla before tesla was tesla yeah and he was like, L, L, L, get out of my office.

How did you get in here actually speaking of things that should have thought right? Like the many, many, many attempts that apple has made to make a car. Yeah, but I should have just bought tesla.

yeah. They want to solve the panel gaps. I'll say you that much. They wouldn't cheap ed out of the materials there.

This would be no door.

Your whole hand goes in those panel GPS.

Yeah, but this is the thing that comes up every time. Be like possibility of apple acquiring some sexy company comes up like remember a couple years ago when patton was flagged and everybody was like how apple is gonna buy paton and then there were a couple of people, I think, including uh, our friends Steve kova, C T C N B C, who just basically raise your hand and reality, why on earth would apple want pilon?

Like why all these companies need apple makes a lot of sense. yeah. Why apple, the richest company on the planet, that has done a very good job of developing the ability to do almost anything very well over time.

Why on earth would IT need, like a warehouse full of tread mills and bikes that no one is buying? yeah. And in this case, like, what does apple need with a theme park?

I mean, they run a very nice theme park in the bertino. It's a circle. yeah.

So I guess like the basic business advices, I don't buy problems. This is a huge problem. Like the future of streaming is a huge problem.

Apples involved in these strikes, right? They are part of the P, T. P.

They're up against sag. They are up against the writer skills disclosure. Alex is part the writer skills.

Our newsletter is union, the writers skill down. And netflix producer concave and a chunk of the company, you should watch your network shows. great.

That was your best one yet. That was like all in one breath that was really good cool.

Someone wrote to us inside your disclosure are in a like foxes on but IT is true that I mean, like pretty you should watch your netlik show it's great is nominated for a nami you've merged .

for your other podcast now you wanted .

you can go to store up the version by literally my name on a hat. So that's a weird moment for me personally. That's all just really complicated for apple.

And this is like their first baby step in the water, right? They don't like a huge distributor, T, V shows dying. Disney is like another .

in IT yeah like they're fully .

like um what's Jason karr took over for a time Warner, right? He took over a Warner media and he is like, here's the thing we want to do. All the movies are going to go to streaming day and date.

That is a thing that apple would want to do to promote apple TV plus on their devices. And that thing broke Warner media that pushed killer out of the CEO role. And we ended up with discovery max plus, whatever it's called.

Those are culture decisions have to make them, not business decisions. And I think apple likes being at a remove the thing that I would offer. And and we have entire episode about sports and streaming coming next week.

But apples are really in the sports, and I think they really want to do sports in the vision pro and not make a serious way. E S. P.

N, over the past couple months and important last week, just of like casually rearranged the sports media market, right? They took pat mcafee, who was kind of the one of the biggest city sports pod casters video people. He had a deal, fan deal.

Disney just took him away. I think he was unhappy with that fan deal deal. He is now just part of the S. P. N. Why not like big, huge multi million dollar deal? And then this last week and gaming, which is another betting company heavily invest in barca sports.

A lot of vaccinations there, but they basically just gave IT back to dave portnoy, who is a control character ism, right? And you can have ball. We're going with disney.

We're going with espn, and espn opened up to bedding for the first time in partnership with pen. So just didn't like the last few months, esp n has just like reposition some of the biggest indian names in sports media and entered bedding. That's all just a lot, right? And that those are power moves like, yeah, this is how esp n wants IT to be. This is how e sp is going to get IT that puts the S P, N in the driver seat of the next turn of things maybe, but it's not clear that apple wants to be in like the bedding business at all right now.

I would say IT seems overwhelmingly likely that apple doesn't want to be in that business like IT to be the extent. Like betting apps in the APP store seems to be only headache for apple, and I can't imagine them signing up for the the regulatory complications that come with that.

And it's and I think like tear tear point about getting into this world fully, uh even with TV plus apple hasn't sort of dragged kicking and screaming into the broader hollywood landscape like IT IT had to commit to spending bunch of money to put its movies in deers. It's slowly becoming more of a part of hollywood. But even still like apple le's whole thing is IT likes things that can wrap its arms entirely around.

And even if you own disney, you just can't do that. Yeah so like I can see what disney would want from apple out of some, you know, partnership. What's the phrase that everybody uses special relationship that that they had with jobs because jobs zone picks are there was some .

he was the largest shareholder of disney. He was in a special relationship. He was the largest individual shareholder. yes. So he was like, I can call them and they picked up the phone.

yeah. He and bob had like a special handshake that they did yeah and they would like, do butterfly this is they saw each other and that that was apple um but yeah, I I tend to be with you cds that this won't happen. I do think IT is possible that we will get to a point where both companies wanted to happen, but ultimately decide, backed up for a variety of things .

we were hearing. Those were a couple of weeks ago that they might get rid of A P, they might sell esp or something like that, that I can maybe see happening. But even then, it's back to like this, apple want to go in into gambling and also doing sports deals. Yes, probably not.

It's it's a mess. I think they .

want these sports deals, not I was just can say.

can we get a real quick strike up date before we thrown out and move on from this stuff because I feel like a bunch of this stuff came up in these earnings calls and people are back at the table, but not back at the table.

So it's it's all negotiations, which means everybody, he's gonna have their own onion on who's the one stepping back right now. The writer is going to saying, well, it's the Bruce sers. They're not coming to the table. They refused to come to the table and the producers are like we're here. And so it's not clear there's still definitely a lot of like discourse there and people upset with each other.

But the the images have been delayed because of the strikes because like you can have a bunch like what good are the images if you don't have a bunch of actress up on stage feeling yeah, I want to emy like it's it's just the technical images and those are really good, but they haven't televise those for years. So I don't think going to start now. And so you've got that, uh, paramo just came out is like what we are totally sad or refine we can wether continue to whether this and this is where i'm super suspicious of other companies who are like, yeah I just don't know we're onna have all the content we need because they all knew this these strikes were coming.

They all knew this was going to be happening. They've all been banking shows for a while now to get through this. So any who say why I didn't know and everything be super suspicious there like take a moment look around to be like, is that true? Because it's it's certainly interesting and everybody y's going to keep doing this.

This is gonna be like there's always you're going to have both sides expressing their truth, which is certainly the truth, but it's also specifically their versions of IT. So you know maybe disney doesn't have enough content to get them through. They could bring willow back instead of yanking IT off in disney. Plus, after a few months, I find i'm not litter.

It's okay. This is how we get backroads on on max.

I see yeah this time we get a back like, oh my god, this actually will make us more money than the tax break saved us.

It's interesting all just now. And then we should take a break. The last time there was a rider strike, that's one reality. TV happened.

well, was happening right before. IT.

right in the studio, started investing in IT massively because IT was cheaper. And then IT became this like done form of media.

That's what a lot of them we're planning on doing like a lot of them we're onna Carry through with that. But the of the day, especially because the actors are on strike, like you still want people like to see famous people. That's just the way IT is. They want to see the famous people. And the famous people are all out picketing or staying in their houses going, yeah, you go picters like in moving the strike funda atis ally.

yeah, Wilson ith is like, get my weird A I double from that bad movie that we shot in one. Get him on on the line. I still, I can barely remember that move. Is home the german I man? Get the german I man out there right now.

German I made two, three and four are all coming next year.

Yeah, we don't saw this. A I wills ith is come in your house.

That's the real threat.

But just like that was last time I was reality. This time it's gonna. Oh, what if we show you even more south korean game shows? And that's going to be a weird see me, we're going to look at a few years. So this isn't your result soon .

as netflix is going to a great time because they a huge international libraries. So they are like SAT, paramount, SAT, disney. The one i'm kind of surprised that they weren't SAT because you they could lose definitely set but yeah see.

I don't know, after only murder in the building season three like what is there on who you yeah for anyone the .

little fire show with three sweaters spin that I never watched .

but I know exists. Love that the little fires one, everybody being for your consideration.

the M. S, all right, that's enough. We will note here are just to the end, Barbie is over a billion in the box office out any a ryan gosling, marja robby promotion because are on strike too, which is also fascinating and probably ever it's going to one lesson from that. Okay, that's IT. We have a break for back.

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We're back in a hard transition from the state of streaming.

We're not going to talk about enterprise software. yes. Uh, the two most important.

A David, you read about sex redesign this week. A lot going on a sex is turning the teams in a lot .

of ways yeah basically, uh, it's a sort of delightful story because teams spent several years during the pandemic just ruthlessly copying everything I could about slack and then just sort of decimate IT because you get teams for free by subscribing to microsoft many other products. Slack is a separate thing you have to pay for.

So team sort of resultant ly won by just copying slack and now like which got up by salesforce as a half success story, have sort of retrenchment after being destroyed by teams, is now just completely copying teams. So they've added a new cyber where there's like the home feed where that kind of look exec, but then there's also A D M stanger. You can see all your messages from all across lack.

There's an activity thing will show you every time you've been mentioned or the reaction emerges all. It's basically like they're trying to sort of filter your messages a little Better. You can make more sense of the chaos of slack and also making these year for you to find things like huddles and canvas and some of these other features that they have in general.

The idea makes total sense to me. Uh, I think a lot of people are going to freak out because IT does a pretty different and it's a really different way of thinking about sack like black. I don't know how you guys feel that IT, it's pure chaos, but IT is like an understandable kind of chaos.

And I think shifting that is tough, especially for something like this, is like people use this stuff for work all day, every day. And the idea of, just like we've put in a new icon, always fix people. Yeah.

I understand what cause because most things in slack are the same kind of thing.

Yeah, it's messaging. It's just a bunch of messages in.

right? Here's a line of text that is like sent to someone or some room and IT worse, maybe like send someone a line of text in the wrong context and that's bad, great. But like it's all the same thing.

And what's happening now with this redesign is like many more kinds of things are going to come to the front, like huddles and the canvas thing, which is like a google doc for a room. And that's the turn that I I think we've wanted to make for a long time. Like this is where we work.

And work involves lots of different kinds of communication and contacts, verses. This is where you send lines, attack other people and will see whereas teams, we we had a long conversation on teams and like the verge team, slacker on because teams is much bigger, like an order of magnitude de more users than slack yeah. And IT is mostly in big companies, uses a video conference in application. Not any of the other .

stuff get a lot of them still use slack for like dms and stuff. And then they use teams for the .

video conference, which which is insane for like a bunch of reasons.

Yeah the IT guys, just like I got money to spend and i'm having a great type like blow in that whole, but to enjoy yourself.

I T guy, if you're not watching the video, alex just made the like make IT rain motion with their hands to describe an IT administrator .

buying slack.

We have to got teams out there and he's just throw a money around SHE.

The long songs playing is like buying a right soft.

Taught like as a lover of enterprise software.

That's how I think about IT. I'll see I haven't got the new psychology, David.

using IT I have gotten yet either. Um it's gonna roll out slowly, sack always. This is really slowly. They're like desperately afraid of making people nervous about changes. So you can like opt in to being fast or medium or slow and how you get update.

Uh, I think it's coming to free users first because like sex doesn't care about you if you don't give the money. So just deal with a new thing uh and then sort of slowly, everybody else. I'm very curious about IT, but the reason added to the rundown and we don't have to spend too longer this, but I think it's really interesting. We had this debate ironically in slack after the story went up about why people care about slack so much like just let people into how the verge works. I've written about lack a lot over the years.

And every time a ton of people read IT in a way that if I write about like a new feature in google dogs or excel or these other, like in many cases, much more popular features, like sometimes there are like big new things, but in every case, like a tiny, tiny iterative update to slack, people care about a lot. And I I have been trying to figure out why this is for a long time. Like what is IT about slack? That means this much to people in a way that like your average APP you use at work doesn't really matter.

I think with people you slack for their friends. And most enterprise soffer just like not use that way, like that's that's just my thing is like you live in slack for like a lot of things you do with other people. If you have A D N D group, there's a chance you have a slack.

Maybe you have a discord. We have a signal. Thank you.

Like but so many people just have slacks for things outside of work. Yeah and I think that that means like everyone is kind of interested. Here's this interface I have for communities on the internet that is changing or you know the slack just captured so much of imagination to begin with that everyone is in that remains interested in IT.

But like zoom isn't that thing no one leads about. One reads to zoo tates. You're stealing one recent .

exception and let's will come back to .

but I am curious, held this like because I think you're write me where IT is, people will uses outside of this. How is that going to affect adoption when they change IT? Because right now, if you go and you look at discord and slack, there's definitely differences, but they fundamentally look a lot like and now it's not gonna look like that way. One's going to be very for like business and the others gone to be where games my friends say mumu and like, which is the one I don't have gme friends to say that just be clear.

are the good friend he said, well.

just gonna the what .

like like our people gonna use that. There are going to look at be people use that and click .

of IT like theory of competition and software. And I think it's best express to the IOS standards. They diverge in the way the interfaces look, and then they converge again like all the time.

And you can drive itself crazy and certainly gain a lot of like hate replies on twitter. If you say IOS copy the android or android copy IOS, right? Like that's cycle therein. But the reason they do that is very obvious, is that if you want people to switch between platforms, you have to lower the cognitive burden of switching.

Yes, if you are google and you want people switch from IOS to android, you cannot have a radially different interface, right? Yeah, you need to welcomed them in and say, most of the things are most of the same places, and the things that are different are substantially Better for expiry reason. And you can one hundred percent argue over whether that a successful in the case of android.

But that's basically the thinking, right? IT is like you got to make IT easy as which if you are slack in microsoft teams is way bigger than you. IT makes all the sense in the world that you're going to make slack look slightly more like microsoft teams to try to peel that market share back. What's interesting to you, your point, alex, is they're not looking more .

like discord because .

that's the older competitor is just no one wants to admit the discord comment like I had former slack eo steward butterfield on decoder ages ago. Many of in the version in three decoder. The last time I talked about this specific thing, he was like, yeah, don't think discords competence.

But IT obviously is it's just in this moment where where's the money? The money is paid. Users of microsoft teams, not a bunch of random and egypto discord.

We have a great time time in their life.

Over the second discord have been refusing to run to each other for years. Like I remember asking, the discord folks are four years ago. Now when are you doing discord for teams? And they were like, don't want to mess with that IT.

IT involves a bunch of flake compliance and administrative work we don't want to do. If you want to use IT for work, great, but that's not officially what it's for. And slack says literally the exact same thing in reverse.

Like if you want to use that for personal, that's awesome. Knock your self out. That sound what is for. And it's like these two companies just keep staring at each other like refusing to acknowledge that they're actually doing the same thing.

Yeah well, I think that's why slack was so popular verses all of those competitors, right?

Remember hip chat? We were a hip chat shop for a minute.

Oh yeah, yeah. Hip chat was a campfire. But even like teams, teams was teams was relatively new. And I was able to get an enormous markets because it's microsoft and IT already was in all of those faces and was just like, k, now we give you this free, cancel your slack subscription.

And so for the longest time, IT was popular, partially because IT was such a social APP in a way that teams really isn't. And so it's like, okay, well, if you go that way, aren't you ruining why most people adopted IT to begin with? And I don't I have used that. I don't know like if IT allows me to not accidentally broadcast things that I thought we're doing great.

the Alice koreans experience.

but I look forward to IT. But I am like curious if that's going to happen.

And actually, ironically, microsoft is the company that is trying to do both. Like IT IT made all this noise a couple of years ago about teams for families, which to me is just like outraced st a threat .

that's like excel for free scholars like.

we're common for you. yeah. Like microsoft cannot let go of this idea that you should use its tools for your regular life. And to me it's like if they had called IT microsoft chat, IT might have had a chance to be something. But if you if like me, like can you imagine hanging up this call and going upstairs to becket and being like, hey, let's plan in .

teams uh, again, my goal in life is to not use software. It's just a stated goal. I think i've said this in the show.

My ambition in like my career is not to accumulate more titles or power IT is to use as a little enterprise software as possible. Like I just wanted get to the place where people walk into my office. I don't have an office. So like, i've got ages to go, but people like showing prints of emails. And I like signing them with the sharp A.

I want this for you.

All I want is to not use energy software.

You have an at H, H, who Carries your phone for you.

And you know like, you know, the masters of the universe. They're not. You think tim cook looks at an email? He's got an ipad.

forgot shaked, yeah. The tim cooks .

is an iphone, actually. Good question.

Ve never actually seen him using. I've seen him as I with me.

I do. Do you have like family coordination software that you use now?

We both work at home like we don't you need to do that stuff when you're like a but like we see each other .

all the .

yeah like we are a communicate. I think now max is gona start in inderal ten. So like there's there's another force in the world that has to schedule us.

And I think maybe now we will need to share account. But three people who spend all day together, you should not need support to manage that relationship. Really, I really cannot emphasize that enough. If you spend all day with two other people, you should not be like, i'd like to introduce some software and do this.

There was a minute where I tried to get my wife on on trial for life planning purposes and that he was into IT. But then we couldn't agree on how to form matter of cards. So I felt I was just .

like to know you have to use these .

things as checklist on the trail court to choose just like whatever i'm ready at all the description and like three days later, I just all held part and now we just have like a series of context free links sent in our text message .

change and are you I vert you to apple watch key talking? That's the the thing i'm going to miss the most when you like, go back to offices and lives.

whatever. No, she's a Green bubble and is a pixel owner and a very happy one who will never switch. So when i'm like using our testing in the android phone, we can just like do our faces off and it's great. But sadly, sadly, there will be no rocky talkies.

Rocky talk is dangerous. No one in my family understand how to use IT. So I had to turn that off because I D be like just hearing the whistling from my wrist, whatever I was doing that day. Like, no, we're not doing .

this anymore revoked. We are so deep in them. I mean, this is pride. This when you still have to integrate of microsoft teams into your life, it's like, no.

But have you been in the grocery store talking to your wrist about which bread to purchase? Yes, effectively on speaker phone too. Like yeah, it's the apple watches is loud now and i'm just like boot. Like I said, my entire life is just headed toward power moves of this kind. That's all I want to love IT. We actually, you work hard on the subject like a bunch of behaviors changed in the pandemic, work from home moment in sort of headed back to office, is, in various ways, one very funy example that zoom called everyone back to office this week, which is choice zoom like, just perfectly choice to .

think zoom new like when they are sitting there being like we're to send this, like all staff female, taking everybody to come back to the office. They do think they knew that they were like, well, we were about to play ourselves so hard .

as as if i'm zoom, i'm doing this just to generate some headlines. Zoom, like no one been talking for weeks now. It's like, know we should do in front back to the office is like every all be like, remember zoom, zoom was great. IT was Better than the teams are reforming to use network. Where's that IT guy spent in the money in the trip club?

He's out there is like, you want zoom, I got you. He just free with the budget.

And then do you also got itself in trouble this week? As you look to earlier, David, they change their terms of service, and I understand why they changed our terms service. They just did IT in the most hampered ted stupid way possible.

So they basically change terms service. Say, all the data that you're put in through zum zoom has a license to, and I need that. If you run a service on the internet, you need a license all the data users put in your service for any infinite number of copy reasons.

Like you run servers, you're onna copy data from one server to another. You're going to introduce new features that might remix the user day, all this stuff. So you just need this like break broad license and the .

example you always used when to talk about the stuff that I really like is done else yeah, if they don't have the rates to use and change and copy yourself, they can make the little versions of the image that you click on to get the big version of the image like it's that simple in many.

They can overlay text on those images because that's the devait. You just write yourself the biggest broadus license you can. And they added these lines are like for artificial intelligence and training models. And it's like everyone lost their mind so fast by the raw language of IT. That means everything you say in the zoo m can be used to train artificial intelligence.

right? It's like we're selling your data to OpenAI to put into GPT four and we're allowed to now is like the the implication of that are speaking of the strike, I saw a bunch of people in hollywood tweet like, oh, we can't resume when we're creating stuff anymore. It's people so prime to see this stuff being taken from them and see this all being used against them in a lot ways, that zoom did this the wrong way at exactly the wrong time. Yes.

if they done this, like three months ago, nobody would have night until somebody like did a tiktok right now being like, did you know, three months ago, zoom decided to steal a your data and give IT a ChatGPT and now you own nothing, including your face. Zoom does. right?

So this specific block of tax is like almost every terms of service. And it's it's just like what you need to on a service, right? You need to take a perpetual worldwide onusual severity free site license or transfer license to do stuff, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, much like it's just a list of verbs we are giving ourselves.

The brought us license to do verbs to your day because if you run a service, there's you want to do stuff, you're going to verbs is what we're here for. Some nouns if you're live in a nann's life, you know, is so they added this language about artificial talents. You just to combine the like usual panic, like every couple years, like some teenager discovers the instagram terms of service and people freak out and never post that copy that's like I do not give instagram permission to do shit and then I have like right, a blog post that's not a complete of a block cost for usual.

This is literally the case, by the way, j Peters wrote our story about uh, this zoom may I think and has backlash to one uh about instagram from twenty twelve and one about drop cks in google drive also from twenty twelve and they are I mean like almost exactly the same post both written by new I both being like, guys, this is this is just the words you mean to have things on servers. Everything's probably fine. But so what's .

interesting like this is there's the general A I panic that is happening. So like David saying, even the writer strike is as big element to this. And then there's the actual problem, which is you just read the language IT sure sounds as a zoom had to clarify the customer data.

Customer data, which is if you are an enter Price software company, the worst thing to have to clarify yeah like that's the whole point of the enterprise software company. That's fundamentally why sacking this quarter not the same. IT makes these big promises to big businesses about its relationship to them and discords like yet for gamers, we're onna mind holiday data like it's just a very different approach.

And I think zoom stepped in IT, and we're going to see hundreds of other companies stepped in IT because at the end of the day, zoom probably wants to use AI to do things like Better beauty filters that people ask for in zoom calls to do things like automated transcripts that are Better than the already AI power automated transcripts are doing. What you want is to write yourself a broad license. You can innovate freely in. The reality is you're going to have to start asking permission step by step for all that stuff because this panic is coming over over again.

Part of me is like, okay, um did this exactly wrong, right? Like they added a statement after all of this curve for that said, not withstanding the above, which is a deeply ly hilarious way to say, well, we wrote that badly so here's some new words. Uh, zoom will not use audio, video or chat customer content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.

Like a, like you're saying, I wild that that was not in there the first time, but B, I kind of don't know. Other than that, one bit of, I think, clarification that some lawyer at zone didn't think they needed to do because IT was inherently obvious, but is not obvious to people who like to track changes on terms of service. This is just a hard thing to do.

And I think one of the things we've discovered with a lot of these is like the thing that happens when somebody starts recording a zoom call and there's that very loud thing that goes like this meeting is now being recorded yeah ah and they have this new thing with the A I meeting summaries where IT like goes way out of its way to let you know that it's doing A I meeting summaries. And you have to like click a thing to make the giant window full of text go away. We're just setting ourselves up for this like homeless user experience because these companies are afraid of our reaction to what they're doing in order to run their service.

And IT feels like there has to be a middle ground in there somewhere. But I don't know what IT is. And IT feels like it's going to be a while before we find IT.

I think it's like one they have to repeatedly prove that they're not you gonna do inferiour things with your data, and that's pretty hard for them to currently do because everything we cover at the verge out com, there's so many examples of IT, right? And so like kind of set themselves up to fail in that respect because they have misused data over and over and over again. And so to be like, no, no, but this time is different.

Like nobody y's gona believe that you've got you've got ta really that you got people way more sabbat about this stuff, and they were fifteen years ago. And so you you gonna fix that. And I think until they can kind of earn that trust back, they're gonna in this place.

So then the other side of IT is like people, please, like go read anything, catch GPT wrote that is then like one hundred words and then come back to me and say that it's going to steal my job like, right? You know, the stuff is not. We are very excited about IT. Everybody like, oh, it's gotten so big, but at the same time, IT is still very early days ChatGPT and these other generative A I systems are gonna writing really good books. They're write books, but they're not going to be readable fun books both at the time.

Yeah I do wonder though if tear point me about companies running into this, if what they're going to a learn from this is just barrow your way through don't ask permission. Don't be nice, just do a google did and say, yeah, we take your shift from the internet .

what are you going to do about IT the problems, exit cross teams, excess and suck, right? Like google, google is approach to date on the internet now explicitly now in some of their terms is if the cruller can see that, we can train AI with her. And that's a nightmare choice.

But you have to say, don't index my website in google search ah okay like maybe like i'm going to shut my business down rather than like google train its models. And I didn't like you have to be google to put yourself in a position. Was zoos like I just use zoom, the market works.

The real answer I think is unfeasible in america, but you need some sort of privacy law so that if they do overstep, there's a consequences that keeps them in line. I don't know, we're gonna that anytime soon. I just wanted to try and keep using this example.

You have to go in a truck, summer office and you like, all right, there's a spectrum of AI things here from beauty filters in zoom. So the people on reddit who faked global to make I read about global in world of warcraft, right? A law truck.

Well, if that's the spectrum, the laws, just all these things are very good, no problems.

Only good things are only outside. Yes.

let's on on my favorite story of the week. Same enterprise software, real medical section on enterprise of are here, a speak and work from home, the zoom explosion, all the stuff. The height of the pendent, when everyone thought were known, was ever going to go work in office again with all video conferencing forever for izon, about a company called blue genes for four hundred million dollars, that this was a big deal like a the sea of horizon.

When I cbc. To announce that they were taught about how they going to roll IT into five g horizon. You know, a big I T supplier.

They like our distribution network. This is the future of business. Blue genes powered vise and give all your employees rise. And five g phones and low latency blue genes experience, anyway, they shot IT down .

this .

week because have you ever used blue chains?

No, no, no. I'm i'm a regular human.

I had to. So that's what the the rider skilled of amErica used as a software. And so when I was a union steward, you'd have two hundred people on a call in blue jeans, and no one knew .

how work should go strike about that. So really.

IT was brutal. IT was just the worst APP on the planet. And remember when verizon bought IT was like, either they'll make IT good or they didn't understand that they bought garbage and IT sounds like IT was the latter.

Let me just put that headline right next to something else. Verizon will soon raise Prices on unlimited plans again. Maybe he hadn't lit four hundred million dollars on fire, buying A A third rate video conferencing APP to make your five g network Better. You can have just kept .

the Prices is lower, just garbage software.

Yeah, I just I just feel IT. It's called blue jeans like this is, why have I told you about the career i'm going to have when I leave the verge where I just walk into rooms and say that name is stupid and then only write me check for fifty thousand dollars and I leave blue what a stupid gee, oh, blue jeans me like, are you serious? That company never had a chance for one second. They had a bunch of marketing .

that was like nothing fits, like blue jeans like that. That's what they were doing.

That's true and has nothing .

to do with the you come from. I was just going to redo this sentence. We have made the difficult decision to sunset our sweet of blue jeans product.

There is where there .

one problem we are taking off for blue jeans.

So if you're on a verizon go unlimited, beyond unlimited or above unlimited .

sure system, real disney streaming shit here.

I don't like this. Yeah, you will be playing three dollars more per month. They do this like clock work every year because the new americans are coming out and they don't want you on the legacy plans to give new iphone.

They want you to put up you on the new, more expensive plans to get a new phone. So every year they come up with new plans, new bubble bad, the news subsides for the iphone, and they make the old plans more expensive every year like clockwork ard. And it's i'm just gonna point out that if they had not lit four hundred million dollars on fire on a product called blue genes, maybe their investors would be happier with them.

And maybe maybe just maybe they wouldn't have to raise Prices so much. Also maybe if we had a team of will by sprint and there are actually four wireless careers in this country, be actually competition market that just me. We don't have additional network twenty five, this updated for you today because they've done fucker.

all that sounds right.

It's accurate. Just saying .

dish network was supposed to, in a long, confusing deal broker by the trumpet administration, stand up a fourth five g network using a technology called iran that would compete with the giants. Do you look around well.

but now dish network is merging with echo star.

So that which is the same company. I just want to point out, if you are an old billionaire and you have two companies and you are like, I don't know, merge them up together, you have accomplish nothing. This is like when people made me try to make me care about pair among and viacom and cbs emerging.

And the only good thing about IT was like, the parent company is held national amusements, which is was like, deeply funny and like, but it's all just to sit like one old guy owned all the companies, right? I mean, this is the greatest succession problem is like not. It's all just the same company.

None of this matters. That dish echostar merging, which we wrote about this week, which was fine. I'm just pointing out we are first at four wireless Carry america. We let team able by spring, which was A A mess, and then we broke red instead of anything real, a fake idea of addition network making a forced network which look around IT doesn't exist.

It's gone really great. Ah I would just say that dish and ecology could combine, rename their network to blue jeans and be hero just right there.

Look, we like asking for emails or and take a break will come back with reading emails if you are a person beyond just my phone is faster or i've downloaded more pirated net lix videos than ever in an airport. If you are someone who's actually like experience the benefits of five G I want to hear from you IT cannot be that you're been with is just faster. I'm talking, you did a robot surgery like one of these things.

They told us what happened with five jet. I have one example for everyone. I'll put you out there right now.

Last night I watched Taylor swift announced one thousand nine hundred eighty nine tailors version from self stadium, unlike forty five different like Crystal clear live streams on tiktok, that is because nfl stadiums have milk later way of five G M. That's why that's that's the future. But okay, i'll give you that one.

I've taken that one off the table. They put so much pain with an n fell stadiums that I watched, effectively pirate live streams of a tao of concert. Okay, that wants off the table.

Give me something else. Email us for chest the verge. I come. I'm dying to know if anyone has done, like a robot five g surgery. If they've deployed a low latency location to a telecom companies edge data center, you let me know because I haven seen one other than these funds are slightly faster.

is updating your laptop at a hotel? Co.

no, it's just more band with.

but there was really nice band with you.

You cannot give me. You cannot give me. I can pull down one gig. Speed, blood, up blood. You have to give me something on the order of tens of thousands of people in an nfl stadium live streamed Crystal clear video to the internet all at once, right?

Not just you alone stood on a street corner with hymen with tens of thousands of people use the internet ones to because of the tailor tion like that is and I give you that that is a meaningful five g thing you could not do with melt know. But give me like one more, which we did not do all of this for the error's tour, at least. I don't think we did virtus virtua on.

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Thn tg presents the ends and outs of caring for your home out, uncertainty, self out, stressing about not knowing where to start in, plans and guides that make IT easy to get home projects done out, word art, sorry, web laugh lovers in knowing what to do, when to do IT and who to hire, start Carrying for your home. We confidence down the the tack today.

Back with a little bit of lighting around. There's some good stuff in the lighting around this week, I got to say. But before we get to that, last week, we asked about four apps in the vision pro.

I will say one person completely misinterpreted the conversation very much to me and twitter. What we were saying is when you have a new platform like the vision pro, the first wave of apps is like toys and like silly stuff, which was the first wave of apps on the iphone. And then after I figure out what they could do because they made so many stupid, silly apps and then you get the wave of mode lapses like revolutionize culture.

There's someone is like superman at me. I'm not aware the apparently successful enterprise. We are apps that exist today.

and it's true. I'm not glue es the upcoming to whatever.

but this was a problem like what's the first wave of silly apps for the vision program to be? We got some good answers. We did.

I have also come up with one that I think is correct, and i'm gna quit my job and make IT. And they are fortune in the first year. But we should go through the ones that we got, because they are all generally very good. What will come back?

I really through .

and see all of to decide to show.

right? So the first one, I joshed w his idea for a vision, profound, up drunk vision, which makes a lot of sense, although you will pick in your. And then that leads right into a second idea, which is soon vision.

I, I buy IT, right? What if you could feel like, like iron Rogers mode for vision pro is like it's also called vision pro, very good. Just in g wrote, try on clothes APP its stampt filters for your whole body and only if you just look at someone else dangerously.

My immediate reaction to this was, oh, that seems really smart. And then one second later, I went, oh, no. But I will say the thing like everyone at sap chat keeps telling me that the A R trion thing is real and people like IT and use IT.

And if you could like put on your vision pro and send in front the mirror and like, see how you would look enough, like there will be something like that. And I bet IT all work. I don't know about the auto was look at someone else, think, yeah.

some real consent issues today.

I don't want to be able to change other people's close.

That seems like I know here's i'm thinking real time revenge. There is an abstract view, problems there will see, but I get IT people like that idea. Michael g says the obvious answer is fk. Clouds floating around the user with spatial audio fort sounds.

literally, is the answer. Special audio of far towns is a thing that will happen, like Michael has spoke in that into existence. And this will happen .

how people took the fort prompt a little too literally. Exec transparency mode. And you not only hear a heart, but you see a plum of purple and Green come out of buts that's right up there with station filter for your body. Well, can you imagine you're going wearing a thirty five hundred dollar head cent? You're walking her around the city and you're just like waiting for farts so you can see the export.

So you're imagining this not as a way. So like make IT look as if someone is for you're imaging like a fart recognition system.

yet transparency .

mode for .

farts far detector. So somebody thought and it's just it's like the the thing in the pool that turns your people pure is just like A R that .

and every time that happens， you hear an apple executive says something like with the power of the m two chip. Christopher acy writes slow mo running from baywatch ing whatever space you are in, but I actually don't understand.

It's like you're putting IT on and you're walking down the street. And in addition to all the .

other people, it's a person's .

slow running. It's good that you went to the pain, understand? I was that says IT all really in my last one. This is my favorite ite one because IT includes the phrase benefit hypothesis.

Hela.

it's very good. So Robin, route APP description, Colin, when the USA men's soccer team wins the world cup, then your apple vision pro will live streamed. Video, a former president Donald truck in prison .

wall that turned hard in the middle.

There I did. Benefit hypothesis is both political parties will wonder how former us. Presidents spends his time in prison to the curiosity will cause a positive effect on U. S, says, overall soccer performance over time.

So you're onna want to win so bad so that we can see that interesting yeah .

so we can all see.

I don't know this has to do with the vicious pro, but it's an interesting incentive .

strategy and any some potential names here Victory watch x president edition, the champion's presidential stream goal to watch protests .

and these are not like golf tournament in .

the number ten here at the end, soccer glory presidential story. I don't know and I like .

getting now so good.

very good.

If you have ideas, there's where I had the prompt. If you have had a meaningful five g experience, you will email me. I'm taking the errors to our off the table. So that's IT.

We're going to get zero emails about that.

So what's your Better idea? We did get some email from of some android gamers. We will coate doesn't talk with .

us more than one.

I don't want .

to dox .

the one person who he helped to me. Yeah so we've got sense of more those. But if you got ideas and like what the first wave of vision problem.

i'm very curous. We can I tell you what my ideas i've actually I I have been thinking about about that. I actually think i'm right.

I think there's going to be this like gigg antic genera of what amounts to like fidget spinner apps in the vision pro. And you and I have both got ten this demo. And just the thing where you can sit there and just like touch your fingers together to do stuff is delete for.

And I think about like the, do you just remember that APP, when the iphone first came out, that was just a beer on the screen, and you could like slash IT back in the first? No, yeah, that thing was like a look at the accelerator. This is cool.

IT does stuff when I move in. The equivalent of that on the vision pro is going like I put my fingers together and something happened. So it's going to be like there's going to be a bubble rap APP that makes a billion dollars. There's going to be one of the little like pop fidget things that's going to make a type like spin something around with your finger like it's going to be huge.

Yes, this is what i'm saying. The person is on anima. Miss the point. The point is when you have a bunch of new interface concepts, the first round of apps is just, can you trigger all the sensors and push all the button, right? And that trains everybody to get excited about what else they can build in the way that the first round of iphone apps is like, turn the phone sideways and that looks like you're pouring a beer like that didn't accomplish anything other than getting people used to motion controls in the ife totally.

And like something like that will happen the first, I guardie the first round of vision perhaps, is gone to be more stuff like that. I can't say it's gonna champion story, presidential glory, just not a, not a clear business model path. But you can see how some of this stuff will happen, right? Lightning around cranes. You've got lk ninety nine, which is with a fake or story. This I can, I say this, I will say the L K N ty nine situation like exemplifies broke in twitter to the max.

Yes, a person like IT .

exists because twitter decided IT would exist and like no one could stop IT. And when we want to talk about IT and then .

got you ve got IT, it's yeah, yeah, I fit very if people understood how how science is Normally reported in how major discoveries are Normally reported, they would have been a little less hyped about this. Because generally speaking, when science has really cool, big discoveries, they like to be like a look at these really coal big discoveries we have.

They don't like to leak to competing studies on the same product to a different forum and then have everybody argue over whether it's real or not and have very little proof that's the opposite of science. Everybody who was like, it's all the conspiracy no, they were incorrect. But lk ninety nine was was as a substance.

There are a number of developers who came out and they said, oh, this could be the next superconductor. And in the important thing about superconductors, really, really good at conducting electricity at room temperature, at Normal pressure, most superconductors cannot do that. We have superconductors today, but they usually have like thermal or a pressure issues in which makes them really, really like, great to use, but really, really expensive to use.

So something that just works at Normal touch, like out of the box is a huge, huge idea. And one of the things that like tells a superconductor for other things is ability to levitate over magnets. But those aren't only materials that levitate over magnets.

So when everybody saw this partially, not even fully partially levitating, they're like, oh my god, it's a superb conductor and IT turns out that, oh my god, it's not it's just one of those materials that libertate tes over back tests. And that sounds like there's definitely some cooler use cases for. That sounds like there's some interesting things here, but uh, the researchers want some of the researchers already were trying to like salad.

And so this was part of their marketing hype to like salad. The other researchers were not. And the superconductor research space was already dealing with some drama because some other people had previously claimed .

when you just think the superconductor research space was already dealing with some drama.

incredible. Oh yeah, there was already drama. There was already another like study that was like, oh yeah, we've got the new superconductor and IT turned out IT was all fake and wrong.

terrible. So like people keep coming into the space because it's it's very problem, like it's the potential for profits huge here. So everybody wants to find that superconductor and then make lots of money.

But can I ask really dumb question? I confess I have like not really followed this story because the night I SAT down and was like, i'm going to read the hell out of elk night was the same day everybody was like, never mind, this is nothing. So I basically have not followed this story at all OK.

And this is why? Ask a very dumb question about superconductors, which is like, let's say, in theory, this had been the thing that some of these people thought I was. So what like, why did this becomes such a like real world excitement phenomenon so fast? I think the .

the big thing for superconductor ism in where IT would be really powerful is, like right now, superconductors are used in a lot of power plants and stuff like that. But if you can get a cheap, super reliable superconductor, which, if this had been one, would have picked to those boxes, right? IT would have been cheap.

IT would have been easy for ce. If you can do that, then you can conceivably make, like electric cars, anything that runs on power. Just way more efficient is able able to move that. And without like as much heat and stuff that it's super efficiently.

So instead, in theory, of doing what we do with silicon now, which is on the a semiconductor, you could do IT much Better .

with a superconductor, right? You could do is so, so much Better. And and so like, I would just make things way faster. IT would make things way less power hungry, like IT would be in a lot with magic.

I just want to give you this quote from our peace, which is if you start with a rock, you end up with a rock.

Yeah and this was the thing. What I didn't get about the twitter side of this was how so many people like this is crazy. It's so cool and then they'll talk to researchers and researchers like we're skeptical and they're like you're in the pocket of somebody you hate science once like.

yeah this is what I mean about twit like the broken blue check version of twitter that we have now like is made for hype cycles yeah and every kind of like crypto scammer, A I thread boy cat a moment with OK ninety nine in the media organized around having twitter be its assignment editor that this obviously fake thing like ended up everywhere like we wrote about because there are so much interest in IT yeah we weren't gonna like we .

talked about this when I first popped off and we we're not going to write about IT because there because all of the reasons that I talked about, which was didn't seem reliable and everything else, but then so many people were writing Better, really okay, well, we have to like explain how this is all incorrect. They're wrong and that this is an a big deal, which is the obama of a story .

or right a quote Michael Norman distinguish fellow and former director of material science vision at the ordinary. When you start with a rock, chances are you will end up with a rock with awesome. It's it's it's a rock but it's just like to me, the thing was, and it's interesting in the capture the imagination you love capture.

It's like every soften. I remember early my gadget ten years like a baby blogger. Someone claim to invented the professional motion machine and like, but like they were, I told the video demonstration and they called them the thing. And like we, like I was just like, that guys is bulls shit. Like, look at IT. And there is an answer which I still think about all the time, which is the audience is interested and it's a service to go and ask the questions of lot and as but we can just answer the questions. Now it's definitely not just .

say IT didn't .

work in the end surprise, but it's just like this cycle. But because twitters in the middle IT, if the idea that means one viral on twitter still Carries meaning in the world, even though the the meaning is sort of divorced from the mechanics of twitter. Yeah and so it's like, oh yeah, like a bunch of, like grifters started doing threads about what that means for there to be a room temperature superconductor and without ever verifying that there is a room temperature never will be very about somebody including all is basically asked us to right a IT .

makes me think about all the tiktok trends that like parents and schools get terrified about that weren't actually trends. But IT was just like one person made a video and then some person made a video warning you about the video and then everybody lacks on one of that. And it's like this was never actually a thing that kids were doing. But now we're afraid the thing that kids aren't doing in a bad news.

yep, it's the, I called the local news I got once when I was a child was consint. The local news once reported, the kids are getting high by drinking too much water, which is a real thing you can do. I sin learned in my mom like how much water like not enough. It's i've been reading a lot of more light.

Yeah, she's not worried about that. The water is .

the problem. I've got a quick update on the mr. B situation. Uh, you were called last week. mr. B sued the company that was doing his ghost kitchens from mr. Beast burger should get out the contract because there is no quality control surprise.

They have not suit him back for one hundred million dollars, saying that he's got more value out of them and he's become more famous because of the burgers. I don't know me just that you're lighting around out date. I think mr.

B versus the proper company is it's like the pinning of influencer culture in a way IT is directly related to like that there are a lot of thread boys thread on the tweet about how mr. Beast burger was like the future of dining. 可以， all of those people should be forced to apologize.

Here's my theory. If you were a thread person on twitter doing threads like that, and then you want to join instagram threads, instagram should enforce that. You have to post fifty apologies .

first and eat fifty beese .

burgers and fifty, you have to do a beast burger chAllenge. If you have ever written a one of ninety nine twitter thread about how mister beese burger was the future of die, I think I think you should have your platform potentials or vote until you .

fifty beast burners. I like that. I will say, I listen, i'm not a lawyer, but the idea that microbe is only famous because of the burgers does not make a lot of sense.

But it's also, by the way, his actual work IT is clear. He cares a lot about the quality of his actual work, 也 like a mister obese。 Video is like a rigorously edited jewel of a thing.

It's like you can see what he pitted. The burgers are well. Very obvious any idea was.

uh, mine is just a small threats update, uh, which is a very cool, a little thing that happened where you can now use your master on profile and your threats profile essentially as verification systems so you can you can go to master on and say, you know, my threads account is this and then actually use your threats account to verify that, which at a very small level is like IT doesn't matter, it's a ti temi feature, but IT is an instagram.

People have been saying this is the first sort of meaningful step threads has made into like the activity pub decentralized social media world. And yes, we've said a bunch of times, like there are lots of reasons to believe threads will never decentralize in the way that he has promised. But the people who are building the thing continues to loudly say they are going to do IT. And this was sort of the first like real world instantiation of that. And I think that's very exciting.

Yeah, that is cool and that is like a very little thing. But IT is true. The threats engineers were posting, like hope you believe us like we're taking these baby steps.

They were so proud about that. That just makes me happy that how excited people were for i'm not excited for but everyone who was so just pumped so care.

But I really I was so pump ed, so I just want to save, by the way, every time I write about this stuff or talk about IT on a show like this, the overwhelming response is people don't care about decentralized platforms. That's not how you win user experience global. And that a stupid argument. People didn't care about anything until they realized why I was cool and started using IT. That's how things were ah and in this case, like I, I will continue to plead loudly that decentralized social media is a good idea and we should pursue IT and you should care as a person because IT will make Better products in a Better internet uh and my number one goal in life is to convince range of strangers that decentralize social media as a concept .

care so here, right, i'll give you the I just flip that around these clans force us to care about, right, like the the money that flowed into that ecosystem to try to force us to care about IT. And we to the verge and the verge cast, audience by and large, was like, don't care about this, like fully rejected. But it's weird that because there's not that much money in the system, the people like Normal to care about this. And like I just it's the things are not user experiences. The things are the things that enable other people to make products and services that compete, which is the thing that .

we care about. The it's it's like the moment that the open web started to beat A O L, there were probably people who like, who care. And it's like, no, this other thing is Better, yes, and might give me a minute, not prove IT to you and like that's how I feel about the future of social sefer y now at .

the end of the day, twitter going to buy time morning. It's the final form of twitters. They're also going to own batman for some reason. The last one we got, you know.

I had to end here. Yeah.

he feels right. Yeah, unfortunately.

there's a new E, V. Escalator to the escalator. I Q, I love IT is so expensive as one hundred and thirty thousand dollars, but IT is hot. It's in a big, it's dict, so big.

It's not as big as it's not as big as the biggest, but it's still huge, bigger than a regular school at three rose, beautiful fall, hundred and fifty miles of fridge because the battery is the size of sherman tank as a crab walk mode, the homer E. V. Has working.

I go side with the things cool. Hundred and thirty thousand notes. I sent a photo of IT. Uh, tobacco was just award.

Hear me out. And he wrote that up. Oh, congratulations.

I was like, what if we saw everything in van evs code? She's like, i'll think about IT touch. Good pictures.

G, M, they've been saying this was onna happen. No car play. Huge screens.

The answer, the inis hot. It's like, well, to wall screens. It's a fifty five inch screen across, yeah, an L, D, L. That wraps around the sort of climate clusters. Another screen and the back.

There's a third screen screens for days and they're saying, no car player, android auto again, they said this was going to happen ages ago. No, believe them. Here's the new escalade.

And we've done IT. Now, importantly, google built in. So you get google maps, you get google, all the stuff that you might want off a phone. But no, android are a car play. I don't know this, a good idea, haven't use IT, haven't seen the car many questions, but this is the moment when big car makers say when catAlina says, you know what, you're going to buy an escalates with or without car play also probably you're in the back side doesn't matter. But like there they are, bedding people are going to buy escalates without carly because what they is.

Okay, you are obligated by law to think this is a good idea. So congratulations. What I would just say is, I know I came back to the show and said that I I agree the car plays is bad, but the thing is, i'm looking at the picture of the screen right now and IT.

Essentially, if I can describe IT IT, basically the the photo i've seen here in rp looks like such three distinct sites. One side shows like nav and car information. The middle is kind of classic entertainment.

And on the right is, I don't know, like a fifteen and across screen that just has seven icons like this. This is what we're doing with our screens. Like here's seven icons.

This is awful. This is the worst U. I design i've ever .

seen in my life oh, so you're looking at that, that's like a menu screen. So I think, again, I have not seen this car. So the screen all the way the right is in front of the passenger and .

that is basically a TV of really skinning Candy .

bar teleway it's a really weird TV IT looks like .

it's got HDMI input IT does .

I have one of these in my car? So we have a jeep with a passenger screen IT has IT has a filter on the front of IT so we can't see IT from the driver seat and IT has H I N and some apps. Great, like i've used at once to stream on football game to that thing in the entire time.

I just told my wife that I was washing football and she's like, I don't care. You often do that on your phone anyway, brother. No, it's in the court like, yeah but that's what that thing over there in front passenger is. Is this belief the car industry has that passengers want a dedicated screen that play that is a team.

Well, it's a dedicated screen for them to put ads on, which is all finding good. I'm just saying the software design here is garbage yet the us.

ugly. yeah. I mean, again.

we have not seen the thing. So I don't know what mode that is in, but you're right, you've got a thing that is a cluster all the way in the left. That's the insert cluster.

You ve got your standard entertainment. And then there's a set of new ideas on the right of thick, but honestly known in the Carter SHE has figured out. But there should be a screen in front of the passenger that is a TV just watch it's come into all of the .

cars and there's another scream rate in front of the gear shift. Art like this is this is .

just that that's the weird crazy in the that's the climate control um because you don't .

have that in the other fifty five .

I just worry about .

this no freezing right? So that here's we don't know, is this fast? Is IT responsive? Is the interface good, David? Things this interface is Better. Well, that we have spent but a few minutes looking interesting.

My point is gms position, and I guarantee you many, many more karmah ers position an over time is going to be we are not letting apple take over the user experience of our vehicles. And we think in particularly, gm thinks with the escalade, the people will buy escalates even without carpani andre auto because IT has google maps such as the thing that people care about the most. And that's gonna that riva is already there.

Tesla has been there forever. And I think they're basically looking at what people are doing on these phone apps. Are, are these one projection systems and think, you know that by and large, they are running google maps.

So we just sign the deal with google and run google maps. Anything yet? We can run ads on the weird immigration.

And right? Yes, we can like as evy charging networks, probably we can like monitor the cars Better. We can do to lemony consider that all that stuff that seems kind of gross.

But fundamentally, they are saying, look, what you want out of this is google maps. And we've signed a deal with google to give you go go maps. And google is waiting there with the open arms.

I don't think that theory is wrong. I just don't think there is any evidence in the history of cars that says car makers can make good software.

or the history of tvs like this is the exact same thing tvs have done. Tvs have been doing this for ages. They're we're gonna do IT samsung ties and then you go buy an apple TV and you plug IT in and you go away and you just can't do that with this because I guess you lug your IT into the H D M. I port.

Yes, you can just plug your phone, enter airport and around off, but only on that screen that the passenger gets. We'll see it's one hundred and thirty thousand dollars EV escalate like the risk profile for this car is very low. I think the people who we're going to spend hundred, three thousand, thousand and ebs grade have people who use their phones for them.

That's going to be use something. And that's my dream. We're going to get the becket review of this car.

It's gonna great. Alright, that's IT David of new news.

Oh yeah, if you are listening to this on friday, uh, you have one day to sign up. It's called installation. And the idea was basically to just take all of the cool stuff on the internet and put IT all into one place.

It's like there's like new apps every week. There's new soft to watch. There's new games to play. There's new like cool creators coming out of the time.

And uh, I spend a lot of time just like pouring this stuff into like random documents and never doing anything with them is like I am going to do Better at finding new stuff. And i've been asking people to send stuff in solar, the first I com. Anytime you see anything cool anywhere on the internet sended.

To me, i've already got to turn really fun stuff. There's a lot of really fun stuff. In the first issue, you can read IT on the site every sunday, but you can also subscribe and get IT in your inbox every saturday.

And we're going to do lots of things like have beta invites and access to cool stuff and like give away and stuff. So it's it's a big advantage to be a day early. Uh, it's the verse I com flash installer.

Uh, I think that the first issues really fun, and I hope IT will be forever awesome. Yeah, realized in the first issue I made, realized me his home screen and tell me about all the truly unhinge ed apps that he seems to use every day. So if you want to know what new ized phone looks like.

check IT out. I do not know. I want of apple music. I do that creation as like, why is this here? Uncreated to the extreme.

Alright, a one more thing we're doing, cyber questions on the wednesday. David, give us a call eight, six, six verge one one with your cyber security questions. I've never been a lot of fun doing interview that the summer.

One question. I for all of you also want us to know if you like IT, if you like IT, when to read in the emails and doing the voice mells. We released what we are having fun. I don't want to sure you think it's a good part of the show, but also if you've ever had a meaningful 5g experience driving bonkers， that's IT. That's a very chest back room.

And that's a the verge cast this week. We'd love to hear from you. SHE doesn't email at verge cast at the verge dot com.

The verge cast is a production of the verge and the box media podcast network, the shows produced by nee liam James and our senior audio director, Andrew marino, our editorial al director, is propels. That's IT. We'll see next week.

Support for this episode de comes from A W S. A W S, generate A, A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud.